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against the nail. Welcome

1:01

to Ozzy. This

1:05

antion. It's about power,

1:08

a certain kind of megalomaniac

1:11

pulled toward more

1:13

more more. Alright,

1:27

alright, alright, So here you are. It's

1:29

Azzi Confidential. My name

1:32

is Eugeneus Robinson, the host. So

1:34

we're gonna do something special to

1:37

show you that this is an actual no holes

1:39

barred, deep

1:41

dive into stories that are untold,

1:44

unheard. I'm gonna do something different.

1:47

Usually I'm getting other

1:49

people's stories, but for

1:51

you, special, for you,

1:54

it's gonna be my story. I'm

1:57

in a band called ox Bowl. A

1:59

cursory not even a cursory glance.

2:02

Your Internet will tell you that if I'm known

2:04

for anything, it's a certain kind of volatility

2:06

which brings me to a friend John Mitchell,

2:09

to be at the l A Times talking

2:11

about an article I wanted him to write the guys

2:14

goading me remembering

2:16

when I was fourteen and not nearly

2:18

as adept at handling the reins

2:20

of volatility as I am now. I

2:25

remember, you lifted weights when you were fourteen,

2:29

you were you were making much progress.

2:31

And I lifted weights as a hobby.

2:33

But I competed right then,

2:35

and my first competition New York was National

2:38

Gym Association Teenage, uh

2:41

New York, mr Teenage New York. When

2:43

I started to go through puberty and you

2:45

know some guys, oh, I was so horny all the time.

2:48

That wasn't the issue for me. The issue

2:50

for me was this really weird kind of

2:52

sense overpowering, testosterone

2:55

fueled sense of invulnerability.

3:01

I think they call it a hysteria patio standing.

3:04

I grew up in New York, so standing on the subway

3:06

platform and as a train started to

3:08

come in, I started to have this increasing

3:11

obsession combined with standing

3:13

on the edge of the platform, that I could throw myself

3:15

in front of the train and

3:18

physically stop the train that

3:20

I had I had through my weightlifting

3:23

ministrations, and I had developed enough physical

3:25

power to actually now trains

3:28

come through the station's express train speeding.

3:30

I knew I couldn't stop a speeding

3:33

subway train, but as it as it cruises

3:35

to a stop or starts up, I was convinced,

3:38

and I actually had to force myself to stand

3:40

back from the edge of the platform, so

3:42

that it was a

3:45

very strange, weird like Octave Mirbau

3:47

and the Torture Guarden talking about these overpowering

3:49

obsessions compelling. It was like that,

3:57

based on what I know now about testosterone,

3:59

I was probably peaking, and then I

4:01

started lifting weights harder, and I probably

4:03

just leveled it out. I didn't have that

4:05

continued obsession with throwing myself in front of

4:07

the train beyond my senior

4:10

year. But of course I left New York and

4:14

then um I came out to California

4:16

and I went to

4:18

Stanford. But I didn't compete at all during

4:20

Stanford. I started lifting after Stanford seriously

4:23

and started competing again after I was doing

4:25

insane things. I remember I was big into

4:27

glandular extracts. I

4:30

don't know where they got them. I don't

4:32

know what was in those pills. You could get them at health

4:34

food stores. I remember feeling dizzy

4:36

a lot. The idea

4:39

was that you had to you had to make gains. It

4:41

was, you know, it was a burgeoning supplement

4:43

industry, and pumping iron had come out

4:45

late seventies, and you know, nobody

4:48

had figured out at least two was seventeen

4:51

or eighteen, like I was, had figured out

4:53

that probably it wasn't just supplements that got

4:55

them there. There hadn't been a lot of high

4:57

profile, well publicized bust

4:59

four performance enhancing.

5:03

I was a purist for so long that

5:06

um that it always

5:08

feels kind of strange for me to talk about steroids,

5:11

which is what we're talking about. I was surrounded by

5:13

them when I was training in Brooklyn. I was surrounded

5:16

by them at my gym in California.

5:19

I trained down at Venice Golds. It

5:21

was, I mean, I figured out by the time

5:23

I'd hit my twenties that

5:25

Arnold and all the pro body builders

5:28

were taking stuff. Fell in love with the with

5:30

the weight training, or with the feeling of being strong

5:32

and being big and all that, and I wanted

5:34

to win Mr. Union was I wasn't interested,

5:37

not at all, not at all interested. And

5:39

then something strange happened. I competed in the in

5:41

the Mr. California. Uh

5:43

natural right. It was supposed

5:45

to be a non steroid aided show, which was

5:48

comically not. I finished last

5:50

but prior to that, some friends and we're gonna be in San

5:52

Diego. You're gonna be close to Juanna, go across

5:55

the border and get us some stuff. So they gave me a

5:57

bunch of money and they gave me a laundry list because

5:59

you could legally steroids there, and

6:01

so the show was

6:04

drug tested, but it was a polygraph.

6:07

So as I'm sitting there in some kind of like

6:09

Abu Grab type room in San Diego

6:12

with the Athletic Commission, I have a Fannie

6:14

pack full of these steroids which I had no intention

6:16

of taking, and they're asking me if I had ever taken them,

6:18

and technically I had not taken them, right, so

6:21

um, I answered and passed the polygraph.

6:24

Um. But something about coming in last

6:26

place, I don't say it unseated

6:28

me. But I started to think about the long view,

6:30

and I go, you know, some of these guys,

6:33

they're gonna be gone tomorrow. You know

6:35

I'm a lifer. I'll be lifted. I've been lifting

6:37

weight since I was nine years old. I'll be

6:39

lifting in when I'm it's

6:42

gonna be a lifelong thing. So steroids,

6:46

what seems to be like a quick gain for some people,

6:49

could be mixed in like

6:51

a healthier supplement. And on

6:53

the drive back from San Diego started

6:56

to have these thoughts, and I and

6:58

because I'm a hopeless and researcher,

7:00

keep in mind, this is well in advance of any Internet.

7:04

I worked at a defense company then and went

7:06

into the Lexus Nexus network,

7:08

which was part of the Darker Thing, and

7:10

did all this research on steroids,

7:12

and I developed like you talked about mid Romney. I developed

7:14

a folder binders full of women, a

7:17

steroid research folder, which I still have to this

7:19

day, And and made

7:21

what I thought was informed decision that

7:24

I was going to take steroids. I

7:29

had been a purist for so long that

7:31

I didn't want to be publicly identified as a guy who

7:33

used. I was initially I wasn't

7:35

ready for that yet. It's weird. Well, I could like

7:38

like why who would care? I was surrounded

7:40

by but that became my thing, Like I

7:43

was the guy, like a guy who wouldn't. And

7:45

in the punk rock community, straight edge was a thing, not

7:54

drugs. Straight clear mind that I was

7:56

going to do this thing. You know. Part

7:58

of one wanting to be kind of sold vot about

8:00

it was that I would I would do it myself.

8:03

And keep in mind, it's not the needles

8:05

that you use for steroids or

8:08

entry. I am needles intromuscular there

8:10

eighteen to gauge. They're really

8:12

giant needles. There's a catch,

8:15

right, and the catches that

8:18

you have to inject it into a muscle, So it has to

8:20

be a large muscle grouping. Now, I

8:23

know guys who shot themselves

8:25

in the quadra set and

8:27

but these are guys who had already used and were big and

8:29

had lots of muscle around the knee um

8:32

or the thigh, and somehow

8:34

couldn't do that. Um. But the

8:36

most common was the buttocks.

8:38

But it's hard to turn and do and

8:40

see if you're alone. But I

8:43

just decided that was going to be the best place.

8:45

And um, I

8:48

remember a girlfriend at the time saying,

8:51

uh, this blood in your underwear. Why

8:54

go oh, eyes must just scraped

8:56

against the nail. But you know,

8:59

I mean, at that point, I still was

9:01

in denial sort of about wanting

9:03

to publicly be identified as a steroid

9:05

user. And we're talking now eighties

9:10

eight eight. And I know this because

9:13

I was in the worst movie of eight seven, Leonard

9:15

Part six, with a bunch of bodybuilders

9:17

who were using and wouldn't talk

9:19

to me about it because they knew it's a kid. Don't

9:22

do what I did. Do what I say to

9:24

fly the straight and narrow, And those

9:26

guys, all to varying degrees, ended up having

9:29

not all of them, some of them ended up having serious

9:31

problems connected to what

9:35

some would say we're personality deformations

9:37

that came as a result of steroids.

9:39

You're walking along, you see a guy in the hole.

9:41

You go, oh my god, how did you get in that hole?

9:44

And the guy goes, well, I put my hand on that branch

9:46

there, and you go, what branch? This branch and

9:48

you put your hand on that branch, goes yeah, And I put

9:50

my other foot on that other branch. You what this foot?

9:53

Yeah? And I jumped up and down really hard,

9:55

really and then what you know, and then you fall

9:57

and you're in the hole next to the guy, you know, and that's

10:00

you. Just you have to realize that there's certain

10:02

things. And I've recognized the cycle

10:04

now with younger people have come up to me and

10:06

start talking to me about, yeah, boy,

10:08

I would. I don't think I would ever do steroids,

10:11

And that's always that's always a poker tell

10:13

I don't think. You don't think you would ever? Really

10:16

that means you think you would ever. So

10:19

I went through the same you know, it's probably the

10:21

life cycle of a story user denial and

10:25

uh, knowing it's not good and then figuring,

10:28

you know, if the science were faster on this, this would

10:30

just be another supplement in the rational and

10:33

then of course taking it. And once you

10:35

take it, your advantage point is no

10:37

longer reasonably trustworthy.

10:42

Because one thing that nobody ever talks

10:44

about when they talk about steroids, about

10:47

how fucking great

10:49

they make you feel, they

10:52

don't want to talk about the fact that one of

10:54

the things that was so compelling about it

10:56

was that on the at least on the upward portion of

10:58

your cycle, you feel like superman

11:06

mental acuity through the roof. I mean,

11:08

if you're prone to being creative, super creative,

11:11

um, four hours of sleep at night,

11:14

no refractory period, you could

11:16

you know lots, I mean, and you

11:18

just good natured. And people said,

11:20

well, what about the royal rage. I personally

11:23

think it's like alcohol. It magnifies you

11:26

know they're bad drunks, but these are kind of bad people.

11:28

It magnifies who it is that you are. It's

11:30

on the down portion of your cycle where you start

11:32

to have weirdness, but on the up portion it

11:35

was it was absolutely

11:37

fantastic. First week. You would have a regime

11:40

of half a c C maybe some orals

11:42

pills that would go with it. You would decide.

11:45

My personal favorite was one called Sustana,

11:47

which was a mix of four testosteronies, approprianate

11:50

and mathate, and I can't remember the other two. And

11:52

the pills I decided were not only worthless

11:55

but bad for you because your liver attempts to metabolize

11:58

them all at once, whereas the objectible it pass just

12:00

a liver several times, so it's not as hard on your

12:02

liver, which is one of the big problems. We too

12:04

would be like one c C right and

12:07

no pills. There's sometimes people would combine it with

12:09

bills if you had good ones, like Anna

12:12

Bar was a good strength pill I remember,

12:14

and I was taking this one called Deck of the Roblin,

12:16

which was supposed to be one of the healthiest, safest

12:19

as these things go. Steroids ever but

12:21

again, nobody tells you about the head game.

12:23

They don't mention that ever, ever, ever,

12:26

ever, unless they're talking about it in the negative.

12:28

I mean, the thing is, it's like, if you've ever watched a movie

12:30

the Invisible Man. The chemical makes

12:32

them invisible, but it also makes them crazy.

12:35

I realized the part to

12:39

make the world corp, you'll

12:42

know who the invisible man.

12:45

So all of a sudden, I hearkened back to

12:48

that subway thing, and I remember

12:50

that I had written an article about a bodybuilder

12:52

out in Sheep's at Bay who, in the

12:54

midst of this kind of meglomaniacal

12:58

steroid thing, had convinced

13:01

himself that he could stop a car like me

13:03

with a train, except he had a bunch

13:05

of enablers, and all these guys were all taking

13:08

steroids in the common parlance juicing, and

13:10

they follow him. He goes, I'm I can stop

13:12

a car, and they go out to whatever that is,

13:14

the highway that sneaks through Sheeps

13:17

had Babe b Qui or something like that, and

13:19

they sat on the guardrail and he

13:21

waited, and he jumped out into the lane in front

13:24

of a car. And technically, if

13:26

you want to be philosophically consistent. He did

13:28

stop. The car broke both arms and broke

13:30

a leg and was hospitalized. But that car did

13:33

stop, not the way

13:35

he thought, you know. And uh, so I remember

13:38

that there had been stories about

13:40

guys who had gotten ill, but most of the people

13:42

who got badly hurt on steroids were from

13:45

other things. It was like from diuretics

13:47

to lose water weight during the contest.

13:50

Uh I uh,

13:52

and I figured these guys were just doing it wrong. Stitch

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oh a z A Y. I

15:02

had one Royd rage moment

15:05

where I had in these multiple cans of

15:07

protein powder because you're taking tons of protein,

15:10

and I had this old fashioned can openers, so

15:12

it left a really jagged line on the inside of

15:14

a can. And the dog, had had a big master

15:16

at the time, had shouldered his way into

15:18

the house and I just started screaming him, and I

15:21

threw the can at him and and

15:23

they cut through all four of my fingers, and

15:26

which was a real problem

15:29

one I didn't like abusing my dog too.

15:32

Now that I had my fingers almost cut to the bone, it

15:34

was gonna it was gonna bite

15:37

into my lifting time. Would you become pathological

15:39

about your lifting time? Because if you're taking

15:41

steroids and not lifting, it's like money out

15:43

the window in your in the steroid adult

15:46

state. And uh so,

15:48

I said, look, I need to control myself. I can't be

15:50

one of those guys, you know, I knew guys

15:52

like that that that I couldn't be one of those guys, and

15:55

so um, but what

15:57

was happening is, um,

16:02

well, what's happening is but what was

16:04

that thing that Tyson says about everybody's got a plan

16:07

until they get punched in the face. I literally

16:09

got punched in the face by steroids. I didn't

16:11

account on the fact, and there was nothing in the source

16:13

material that says, once you take half

16:15

a c C and one c C and

16:17

to CC, your ability to

16:20

cap it at two and a half CC is

16:22

gonna be non existent. Moreover,

16:24

you're gonna want to go, well, if two

16:27

and a half CEC is to maybe three and a

16:29

half CC, what about four? What about

16:31

five? What about six?

16:33

I mean, you know this. I

16:36

don't want to even say this is a worldwide phenomena,

16:38

but it seems to me a particularly Western thing of

16:40

just more, bigger, more,

16:43

And so I ended up. I remember trying

16:46

to crazy glue together

16:49

too. I am the bodies

16:51

of the syringes of tubes so that I

16:53

could fit more rather than take two separate shots,

16:56

which I'd have to sacrifice the actual needle

16:58

part I was trying to craze. He glued together

17:00

two stems so I could have a super long

17:03

needle and get six ccs UM.

17:07

I didn't have enough insight at

17:09

that time to realize that

17:11

UM

17:13

deviating from the plan was going to be problematical

17:16

for me. But

17:20

he used to be a TV show called a six million Dollar

17:22

Man, and he had like a

17:24

bionic leg and a bionic arm, and he would

17:26

do all these amazing things, like he could run sixty

17:29

miles an hour. But they never dealt

17:31

with the issue of what happens

17:33

to the non bionic leg if the bionic

17:35

leg is running sixty miles an hour. Right,

17:38

And this is where I was. My body was

17:41

used to get in these chemicals that was making

17:43

it do phenomenal things. I was

17:45

deadlifting over six pounds.

17:48

I had gone from a body weight of one to

17:51

sixty five. I

17:53

was bench pressing three fifteen

17:55

that's three forty five pound reps

17:57

and a forty five pound bar in the middle, close

18:00

grip, benching for eight to ten as a

18:02

warm up, squatting almost five pounds.

18:05

I was a really big, strong

18:07

guy. But of course they you've heard about

18:09

it. They talked about a weird dysmorphia. I had no sense

18:11

of how big I was really. I

18:13

just knew I wanted to get to three hundred pounds. That's what I

18:15

wanted to do. And if

18:17

it was four ccs or five ccs or six

18:20

c cs at that point, that's what I was

18:22

gonna do. And then

18:24

I have a weird relationship with my father. We only

18:26

talked once since I turned nineteen, and

18:29

he came out to talk to me. Maybe

18:31

I was thirty at that point, twenty nine

18:34

or something, and he I

18:37

said, look, I'm not breaking my schedule for you. I got

18:39

stuff to do, because well, what do you want to So I'm going

18:41

to the gym. Come with me to the gym. We can talk while we're

18:43

at the gym. He was flying through or

18:45

something, and we're gonna work out

18:47

together. And it was just this great moment

18:49

where I had a completely

18:52

soured on the prospect of having a father, but

18:54

even though we had had problems. And

18:57

so we go to the bench press and

19:00

uh, I put one fifteen

19:02

pounds and he's

19:05

like, I said, he goes, I can't

19:07

do I said, yeah, I know you can't do

19:09

it. It's for me he goes,

19:11

well, I can't spy you. I got just standing

19:13

here. Just I don't I don't need

19:15

you. So you measure your hands out from the ends of

19:17

the plates. And usually when you do

19:20

a bench press, you hold your arms like you're doing a push

19:22

up, so your arms are shoulder with the fart. They're pretty

19:24

wide. But I measure it out,

19:27

and then I measured it again so that now my thumbs

19:29

are touching in the middle, and I'm doing what you call

19:31

a close script bench press. Most

19:34

people can't bench press three d and

19:37

fifteen pounds anyway close

19:39

grip where your your wrist ben at the middle and

19:41

your your your hands are only thumbs with

19:43

apart. It's incredibly hard.

19:45

And I loaded it to my chest and I can and I'm

19:47

watching him from the bench. He's looking down

19:49

at me, and I'm watching him and where eye

19:52

contact. And as I get down to my chest,

19:54

I pause, and then I

19:56

knock out eight to nine rips and

20:00

just looking at him. And

20:02

as I finished, I hold it at the top and I go, you

20:05

can just guide it back in, and so

20:07

he pulls it back to two inches into

20:09

the into the upright struts that hold

20:12

it and

20:13

uh, he goes,

20:15

I stand up, and I'm still looking at him. I stand

20:17

up and he goes, I

20:20

can't do this. I got I know, let's take

20:22

off some weight for you. And it

20:24

was a great kind of inversion

20:28

inversion moment. Uh.

20:30

And then of course we went back to never speaking to each

20:32

other again. So that was the last time I spoke to him.

20:40

You know, if if you grew up on ABC

20:42

after school specials, you might think

20:44

that that was a good moment, But that

20:46

was that was a steroid

20:49

fuel moment of rage, you

20:51

know. And what I was hoping

20:53

was transmitted in that moment was old

20:59

man, you'd don't have a chance, you

21:02

know, or like the line from Cape Fear,

21:04

you know, I can outthink you. I

21:06

cannot fight you. I can out

21:09

you know, lift you, and outrage you.

21:12

I can out thank you, and

21:14

I can out philosophy. I

21:16

have exceeded you in every way.

21:19

It wasn't a

21:21

general good sign of mental health, but

21:24

it was in terms of my personal development

21:26

probably a really good

21:28

sign. I was getting over

21:31

wanting to be a son. Uh

21:36

God, this is the part where I'm supposed to be really

21:38

candid to encourage others to be candid.

21:41

But I remember

21:44

the girlfriend I had at the time. There

21:47

was a resistance

21:50

to telling her because not

21:52

only was your athletic performance through

21:54

the roof, but sexual

21:56

performance also through the roof. It's

21:59

so cheesy, it's you know. I asked

22:01

one of my body build a friends. I go, hey,

22:03

do you let people know that you're on it? Do

22:05

you just let them think you're this way always? He was

22:07

like, I'm this way always

22:09

because I'm always on, And I go, I'm not always

22:11

on, but I feel like I should totally disclose,

22:14

and he's like, I don't do that. So

22:16

there there were well,

22:19

there were reasons why people were not really

22:22

looking too hard, like,

22:24

gee, you've gained ten pounds. I mean,

22:26

everybody saw me taking protein. And

22:28

there was a guy who I knew who was on a similar

22:31

thing, and he asked him once. And

22:33

the weird thing is this is all

22:35

completely illegal, but a large

22:37

number of people doing it that we worked out with we're

22:39

all cops. So it was a very

22:42

interesting way of I mean, this is prior

22:45

to Barry Bonds and Mark McGuire

22:47

and the home of the steroid era of baseball,

22:50

and these guys would take a growth horm and all this other

22:52

stuff allegedly, but you

22:54

had this weird detente with cops. So

22:57

you know this guy you know, was a cop, and

22:59

he goes, you look at pretty good. I go, yeah, because

23:01

game about fifteen pounds

23:03

in the last month and a half. Yeah about that.

23:06

He goes, what do you? What do you? I would say cyber

23:09

genics, and so that became that

23:11

would became yeah, me too, cyber

23:14

genics too. And there was a thing called

23:16

Cybergenics and that was pretty powerful,

23:19

but it wasn't doing pounds

23:21

of raw weight game. No, that's

23:23

not cyber genics. But I never competed

23:26

again. And after I took them because the purest

23:28

in me didn't want to, I still

23:30

at a certain level thought it was cheating and didn't

23:32

want to do it. I didn't want to do it. So

23:35

but also something else happened when

23:38

I started taking steroids. Bodybuildings

23:41

seemed to be aspiration

23:44

really seemed to be too small. This

23:47

is this is the key to kind of the mental deformations.

23:50

It seemed to be. It seemed

23:52

to be kind of a parochial greatness.

23:54

And I was I was I was looking for Master

23:59

four life greatness like things. You

24:02

know, I was gonna be the best singer and the

24:04

best writer, the best not just good,

24:06

the best, the best anybody had ever

24:08

seen. I mean it was a kind of madness,

24:10

right and um kind

24:13

of madness. But I look back and I was super productive

24:15

during that period. Published a lot of magazines, did a

24:17

lot of interviews, did a lot of

24:19

work one awards. Not

24:22

just athletic, was that anything but athletic?

24:24

Was you know? Um? And I don't know that

24:26

I make a one to one connection, but if

24:29

you're being productive, then some of that stuff

24:31

is good. That might happen. And we were all

24:33

I mean it was Nobody ever talks

24:35

about the euphoria. I mean, look,

24:38

you might get feeling, are you certain euphoria on

24:40

angel dust, but you're not able to

24:42

really physically back it up. But this

24:44

was just we were euphoric.

24:48

And but it was a cyclical euphoria,

24:51

right you for that up portion

24:53

of your cycle, and

24:55

U the down portion was routinely

24:58

terrible. So all the heaven

25:00

that we had all been enjoying these

25:02

bodybuilders, bouncers, uh

25:06

you know barbell boys that I knew when

25:09

we would cycle at the same time on the downtop,

25:11

I mean I remember going over pulling guns out

25:13

of people's mouths because they was suicidal. Myself.

25:17

Remember sitting watching some commercial for Scrooge

25:20

was it Bill Murray movie, And at one point

25:22

they're talking about putting a little love in your life.

25:28

I'm sitting there sobbing like a baby.

25:30

And it wasn't even the movie. It was a commercial

25:32

for the movie worse

25:35

Right, and I'm like, my God, loving

25:37

your life. And

25:40

then at that point I realized, I

25:43

think I may have mismanaged the down portion of

25:45

the cycle. But that was a

25:47

very dangerous couple of weeks because I

25:49

was having like and they say in

25:51

the Apocalypse now, I was having ideas

25:54

that were increasingly unsound. Idea

26:00

it became

26:08

cha and uh.

26:11

I was involved in the relationship then that was

26:13

probably not the best of all relationships.

26:16

And I always thinking, I gotta I gotta

26:18

settle down, I gotta get serious about life.

26:20

We me and her, we could get all

26:23

tied in. And of course, about

26:25

two weeks, twelve or fourteen days afterward,

26:28

when your body starts producing testospode

26:30

again, your perspective comes back.

26:33

But you know, during that two weeks, I could have said and

26:35

done a lot of dage. I could have asked

26:37

three or four people to marry me. You know who

26:39

knows it was. It was a

26:41

cavalier attitude about things that I

26:43

wasn't prepared and wasn't in the source material.

26:49

The thing is, this community also

26:52

included women and

26:54

women bodybuilders who take steroids

26:57

very frequently. The changes that they

26:59

encounter through or irreversible. And

27:02

there was this one friend of mine and she

27:04

had gone out with a friend of mine and they

27:06

broke up, and she was in the gym and we're training together,

27:08

and she had this very kind of effective way, this

27:11

kind of breathy thing. I remember

27:13

at the time, I mean its in my twenties. I think this is

27:15

kind of sexiest kind of breathy thing she's doing.

27:17

But we were actually training together, so it was annoying.

27:20

After a certain point, I couldn't

27:22

hear her, and I just said, I'm

27:24

sorry, what you say? What did you want me to put on? We were changing

27:27

the weights on the day, and she was put on

27:29

early five, and I realized that it

27:31

was an accommodation that she had made because her

27:33

voice had dropped an ox, so as long as she kind of

27:36

whispered, she could maintain

27:38

a higher voice, but when she raised the volume

27:40

of her voice. It was, and that's like forever. I'm

27:42

sure if I were to find it today, she sounds.

27:45

So it was. So I was surrounded

27:47

by examples of people who I

27:49

mean mostly the women who had physical

27:51

changes that they were never going to be able to come back from

27:54

UM. And and indeed, you

27:56

know, I got paranoid enough about

27:59

some of those changes that I actually

28:01

sought out a doctor. I went

28:03

through several so I could find a doctor who,

28:06

in my mind was good enough some

28:08

might say crazy enough to do the surgery

28:10

that I had wanted done, which was UM.

28:14

When you have men who have too much

28:16

estrogen in their system, get this thing called kind of camacity

28:18

of fat starts to form behind the nipple

28:21

in the chest, and you know, you start

28:23

to develop kind of secondary female sexual characteristics.

28:26

It's a it's a common thing that

28:28

happens naturally, but it happens a lot when you

28:30

see people who are abused steroids. So I

28:32

said, I'm gonna get around this because once

28:34

I started steroids. Of course, the thing I

28:36

told me about, that told myself about that first cycle

28:39

was I just did it wrong. Next time,

28:41

I'll do it right. So as a

28:43

as A as A prophylactic measure. I want

28:45

all that stuff, all those all those glands

28:48

taken out. The doctor said, well, we can't

28:50

do it if if after

28:52

it happens, because then technically it'll be cosmetic.

28:54

So why don't What if you would have

28:57

a biopsy, dumb, we could say maybe it's

28:59

possible be preconcerous and we could pull it out. That way,

29:01

go cool, let's do it. So insurance pays

29:03

for it. So I had to burst

29:06

into the laboratory and it was like to

29:08

get my mammogram. But at least now when women

29:10

talking about mammograms, I know what it's like. It's unpleasant

29:13

and uh. And they did the surgery and

29:16

they cut open my chest and

29:19

uh, like use those those claws

29:21

that they have an amusement parks to get stuffed animal

29:24

toys to reach and pull out all the glandular

29:26

matter and cut it off. Took

29:28

my nipples, put them back on and sewed them back on,

29:30

and put drainage tubes in my chest, which

29:32

I wore for three weeks. So

29:35

that was I mean, if

29:37

you smoke a joint three weeks

29:39

later, you're probably not remembering that joint you

29:41

smoke three weeks later, when

29:43

I have tubes in my chest. I kind of remembered that

29:46

this happened because I want to take

29:48

steroids, so I was I was in at this

29:50

point. I was committed to the lifestyle you

29:52

see now sitting here like this. It

29:55

makes me sound crazy. It

29:58

made you feel good enough that

30:01

it was an actual effort

30:04

to stop. And I have to

30:06

say the circumstances

30:08

under which I finally decided to stop or

30:12

what you know, alcoholics call you have these moments

30:14

of clarity, and it was a pretty potent one. We

30:16

were all racing the three hundred, and I say

30:19

we I'm talking about me and maybe nine

30:21

other guys, ten twelve, maybe twelve

30:23

tops, and I got a call.

30:25

One day. A couple of things happened simultaneous.

30:28

One of the guys, who was one

30:31

of the dealers, would get

30:34

his big shipment and he would come to

30:36

the gym and announced that he had had it, and then he,

30:38

like Johnny Appleseed, would go from house to house

30:40

to deliver it um And

30:43

one day he got into the post

30:45

office, got the shipment, went from

30:47

house to house and the d e A followed

30:50

him and busted every single person that

30:53

he delivered to. Lastly

30:55

him somebody had gone over to his house to

30:57

pick up a shipment was sitting there as

30:59

a guy this in the Blue blazers kicked

31:01

through his door. They come back to the

31:03

gym and they say so

31:06

and so got busted, and everybody

31:08

who had purchased from him or used from him

31:10

interrupted their workouts. It was literally

31:12

like a like a run on the bank to opposite everybody

31:15

gribbage in bags and you could tell exactly

31:17

who was using because they were all just

31:20

out to go home. It's not like

31:23

like coke where you know, I'm gonna flush it down to No.

31:25

This stuff is hard to get, mostly to hide,

31:27

give it to your girlfriend, put it at her house, or

31:29

do whatever. So there was a massive bust.

31:32

Right. People were looking at real people, friends

31:34

were looking at jail time. And that was

31:37

a pretty potent call. You

31:39

know, if ever there were signs, that was

31:41

probably a pretty good sign. You know, that

31:44

was a good time to stop. But um, but

31:46

people do start to know that you're the

31:48

guy who knows guys. So I

31:50

didn't buy again, but I made introductions

31:52

again to people who would I

31:55

mean guys I knew who were hardcore users and

31:57

they were not going to stop. I remember

32:00

asking one guy. I go he

32:02

was like an elder statesman, and I was like, I'm

32:04

gonna ask him, like, how do when I was up to six c

32:06

seeds? Like, how do I know? I haven't read in

32:09

many cases of overdose? How do I know if I've taken too

32:11

much? And I asked him and he goes, well,

32:13

I know I've taken too much when I and

32:15

he pulls his shirt up and

32:18

yeah, he's got there, you know, the ripped abs

32:20

and stuff. And he pulls his shirt up and he goes,

32:23

when I feel my liver and

32:26

he points, and I for the first

32:28

time notice something poking

32:31

out of right under his rib cage, and

32:35

he just when I feel it, when I see it start

32:37

to swell through my shirt, I back

32:39

off. That

32:42

was another sign there's

32:46

never any why you never asked somebody, well, why

32:48

would you smoke a joint? Why would you drink glass of wine?

32:51

Sometimes you just do these things just to doom.

32:53

You know, it's life on planet human,

32:57

you know, why would you? Why would you do that

32:59

to yourself? You don't. I'm many times I've actually heard that,

33:01

you know, regards the tattoos or

33:03

people do strange things sometimes and there

33:06

was nothing quite as strange as this. Now

33:13

you made it through that one, all right? Next

33:15

up, next week, we've

33:17

got a Swedish royal, former

33:20

beauty queen, speaker of

33:22

three languages, world renowned

33:24

nietzsche scholar PhD holder,

33:27

and in a weird, unfortunate

33:29

twist of fate, maybe Crackhore.

33:32

Welcome to one Miss Josephine knock

33:35

Off on the next edition of Ozzy

33:37

Confidential. Ozzy

33:43

Confidential is produced

33:46

by who Else Made Eugenez

33:49

Robinson, an executive produced by Robert

33:51

Coolos, and this episode

33:53

was sound designed, edited

33:56

and mixed by Jamie con and

33:58

Nick Johnson. For

34:00

more Ozzy Confidential,

34:03

check us out on Azzi dot com.

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That's o z y dot com

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