0:04

predominant power In

0:13

Jesus' name In

0:26

his mouth" . Welcome to Peg and Coffee Talk . Here's

0:28

your host , lord Knight , with special guest

0:30

Lady Maya .

0:33

Tell us about the ethics of Ravenwood . What

0:35

do y'all teach ? And as

0:37

far as ethics go , ethics .

0:40

Well , from an ethical standpoint

0:42

. Everyone is heard of craft law . There

0:45

are several sets of craft law that have been passed down

0:48

through many different traditions . There

0:50

are sets of craft laws that have been compiled

0:53

from all those traditions and approved by several

0:55

, by many elders . So we , from

0:58

a Neovite's perspective , use

1:00

one of those sets Lady Gladiatorial's new book of the law

1:02

to teach initial craft law

1:05

. Right , the

1:07

interpretation of laws is

1:09

something that we helped them out with . But

1:11

on top of that we teach something called

1:13

the tenets . So

1:15

the seven tenets of balance

1:18

, harmony , reincarnation

1:20

, trust , humility

1:22

, tolerance and

1:24

learning , All

1:26

right . So we teach those seven tenets

1:28

and that provides a pathway

1:31

for exploration of

1:33

our world . And those

1:36

are the inner pieces that we use to say

1:38

am I in alignment ? I mean any problem you

1:40

have in the world , in your life , you can go

1:42

back to those tenets and find exactly which one

1:44

you need to work on . So

1:46

, between craft law and the tenets , and

1:49

then the level of respect and dignity

1:51

we expect people to uphold in their own lives , that's

1:54

kind of where we get into ethics . Now

1:56

there's a big difference between

1:58

a law and a read . Let's

2:01

talk about that for a minute .

2:03

Oh , let's do .

2:04

Yes , because a law , a

2:06

law , craft law is based

2:08

in natural law .

2:10

Right .

2:11

A read is actually

2:14

advice . A read

2:16

is not law .

2:17

No , it's not .

2:18

So when you start talking about the wicked

2:21

read , it is

2:23

advice , it is not a

2:25

law . So

2:27

when you start talking about an harmony

2:30

, none we know this is something

2:32

to try to attain , but

2:35

there's always black and white . There's

2:37

always white within black . It's

2:39

not something that's fully attainable . It

2:42

is something we strive for . No one

2:44

is perfect and that you know . It's

2:46

a great place for people to start .

2:49

Yes , it is .

2:49

About the responsibility of their actions

2:51

and take responsibility for their actions

2:54

. But any harm done also

2:56

includes the self says . A lot of introspection

2:58

that comes into that .

3:00

Right .

3:01

And as you progress through craft , there

3:03

are other sets of laws that come into play . But

3:07

another whole set of laws at first , just another whole set

3:09

of laws at third . Yes , for

3:11

our tradition .

3:13

Open Yowls . Yes , yeah , there's

3:16

some things we learn differently than

3:18

yowls , so yes , oh , yeah , yeah , yeah

3:21

.

3:22

But there's also , you know within

3:24

, how we go about

3:26

by day in our regular lives

3:28

and how we go

3:31

about by night , should I say , in our

3:33

craft life . Those things

3:35

will eventually come into alignment . I mean

3:38

, you can't go out and do this stuff in the daytime and then

3:40

do this stuff at night and say , oh I'm , this is none , no , no , no

3:42

, no , you can get bit bit hard . But

3:45

what's interesting , though , is , over time , through

3:47

the act of practicing and becoming

3:50

who and what we are within craft , that

3:53

alignment really is interesting

3:55

because it shows up in your business world . Yes

3:58

, it shows up in how you're dealing

4:01

with responsibility

4:03

and actions

4:05

and how you handle your business world

4:07

, and everything in your life turns into a mirror

4:10

. Yes , so if

4:12

you've got somebody who's disrespecting you , right , right

4:15

, first thing you do is after yourself Well , who am I disrespecting

4:18

Exactly ? And

4:20

it fixes the old . You

4:23

know , it's really interesting , and

4:25

it may be someone at work , maybe somebody

4:27

, maybe a neighbor . I mean

4:29

, it's really interesting how it all balances

4:32

out and works around it . But from an ethics perspective

4:34

, there are certain things

4:36

that we , you know , we expect people to work on their

4:38

stuff . We expect people to be treated with respect

4:40

and dignity . We

4:42

expect people to mind their boundaries

4:45

and set boundaries appropriately and

4:48

manage their personal lives in a dignified

4:50

way . And you know , one of the

4:52

things that I've always said with

4:55

running a group is I always want to provide a safe

4:57

, secure place to worship

4:59

, meaning that

5:02

you are a dignified individual and

5:04

I'm not here to joke you , insult

5:07

you , lead your life , control

5:10

you . Nothing

5:12

and no one else in the group should be

5:14

that way either . People need

5:16

to grow in parallel , not bound

5:19

together . No , people

5:21

need to learn to stand up on their own before they can help

5:24

somebody else , but if your life lessons

5:26

, if your life lessons

5:29

are coming from your

5:31

interactions with your COVID members

5:33

, you got a problem , because

5:36

then your group energy is all messed up , because

5:39

they should be individuals being able to stand on their own

5:41

two feet and not having some

5:43

huge Less than about

5:45

codependency and control issues happening

5:47

within the Covenant self . That's

5:49

not a good thing , and

5:51

trying to manage that safe , secure place has

5:54

been very interesting .

5:56

So y'all are very y'all

5:58

, just like us . Y'all are very keen on the whole

6:01

entire keeping your word

6:03

and accepted responsibilities

6:05

for your actions .

6:06

Yes , very much so .

6:08

I've always found it surprising as we

6:10

start to teach people this stuff . They seem to think

6:12

this only applies inside

6:15

of Temple . They never seem

6:17

to realize how it moves outside of that

6:19

into your normal day .

6:22

But if they haven't , but if they haven't assimilated

6:25

it across all of their worlds , they'll

6:27

fail at Temple too .

6:29

I can see that . I

6:32

saw it in my life as I went along , where I started

6:34

to use those ethics and

6:36

morals to shake how I did

6:38

business and how I did my job and interacting

6:41

with other people . I

6:43

do find it very fascinating .

6:46

The thing that even gets more fascinating about trying

6:48

to do that is maintaining your boundaries

6:50

, because they're not dealing with this , they're

6:53

not living under the same rules you are . No

6:56

, you can't let their stuff cross your boundaries

6:58

either . It's interesting , it's very interesting

7:00

.

7:01

I mean , I've had a lot of problems because we're

7:03

a real believer in keeping your word

7:05

and dealing with contractors

7:08

and stuff like that . When they don't show up and

7:10

stuff like that , you're sitting back going . You

7:12

know , is my moral getting in the way of me

7:14

getting something actually done , or ?

7:17

And why doesn't that bother you

7:19

that you broke your word ? Why doesn't

7:21

that bother you ? And

7:25

if you're not going to do it , communicate . Communication

7:28

goes in a long way , and communication

7:30

in such a way that is not abusive

7:33

. Showing up authentically

7:35

is what you really need .

7:38

Right , I don't need anything else

7:40

. Keep your word , keep going . You

7:42

know I get all upset when something

7:45

happens and I can't keep my word . I'll drive

7:47

him up the wall going . Wait

7:49

a minute . No , no , no , this , no , we got to be .

7:54

Well , one of the things that goes

7:56

back to this ethics thing and Lady

7:58

Santana's vision of adding respect

8:01

and dignity into the craft is managing

8:04

how you show up as a practitioner

8:07

of the faith . We

8:09

live within a country . There

8:12

are laws of the land and

8:14

there are general cultural

8:17

norms that

8:19

can either bring respect

8:21

or bring disrespect

8:23

very carefully . So we are very careful

8:26

about how we present ourselves

8:28

in the greater world . We're

8:30

very careful about how

8:32

we go about making

8:34

changes in our world . You

8:37

know , lady knew how to use the media because

8:40

she was entertainment and with the way

8:42

she looks she was good at it . There

8:44

are many times there were the Atlantic

8:46

public news where they had something come up that

8:48

the five o'clock news would use her as the daily

8:51

lead and watch the TV during

8:53

the day . You know the news . You know five

8:55

blah , blah , blah , blah blah . I remember

8:57

one where they were coming over

8:59

to talk about some battles that we had

9:01

when we were over in Decatur and she's

9:04

like , coming up at five , there's

9:06

witches in Atlanta and she's standing in front of the

9:08

altar . Yes , there's witches in Atlanta . Yes

9:14

, we are here . I don't remember the exact phrase but it

9:17

was really good , but it was in presentation

9:19

. That was a shock value thing , that was an affirmative

9:22

thing . I said , yes , we're here , but

9:24

I'm presenting myself in such

9:26

a way that it looked like everybody else . Yes

9:29

, right , people are shocked of

9:32

how I dress . When I'm in public

9:34

as a witch , I'm

9:37

in a white linen button

9:39

down shirt , a single necklace

9:42

and a pair of khaki pants or

9:44

some shorts , I don't . You

9:46

know , I don't present myself , as you know , in Dora

9:48

, running around and

9:51

sometimes that person can be helpful

9:53

with what you're trying to do if you want

9:55

that out there . But sometimes it can hurt

9:57

you as well , because you have to be approachable as a leader . Yes

10:00

, right , but the other one can kind of

10:02

keep you not as approachable , which kind of helps

10:04

distance too much crazy from you , because

10:06

there's crazy out there .

10:08

Oh , I had a lot of crazy everywhere . They

10:11

got so crazy in the mirror this morning . I

10:17

mean there's a from when I first got

10:19

into now there's just been . So

10:21

seems like such a big change in

10:24

craft and our well in

10:26

the Payton community at large not

10:28

necessarily in craft compared

10:30

to when we first came up .

10:32

What change are you talking about ?

10:34

There seems to be more free

10:37

willing in the Payton community

10:39

at large , everybody's . Just I

10:42

still don't understand this whole manifest destiny

10:44

thing and how it actually , how they

10:46

think it actually works , and stuff

10:49

like this . You know , you're

10:51

just seeing some ideas that seemed a little

10:53

bit more far fetch than what I

10:55

was brought up to believe .

10:57

Well , you brought more on a traditional

10:59

bent , but the way things are

11:01

structured now with . To me , the

11:03

way things are structured now is social media

11:05

and the books and all that's out there

11:07

for quote unquote resources

11:09

A lot of it is . It

11:11

feeds the ego , it feeds the identity and

11:15

the minute you start getting into this

11:17

, I am , you know , I am this

11:19

and I'm a this and I'm a that , and look

11:22

at me , go and it's . It's . It's

11:25

subtle , it's very

11:27

subtle . It actually shuts down

11:29

the spiritual growth aspect of it . Much

11:31

of what's being taught is more

11:34

mechanics . It's about yeah

11:36

. You know , here's all the side , what

11:38

I call the side dishes . You know the

11:40

definition , the magic , the whatever

11:43

. You know all the side dishes . And

11:46

then there's the root of the faith and people

11:48

are shocked that there actually is a faith behind there . This

11:50

says there's a God and there's a goddess , and this is

11:52

how they interact and this

11:54

is how we deal with the elements and spirit

11:56

. You know people say , well , you know , I

11:59

had somebody asking one time well , what do you think about

12:01

quantum physics ? And

12:04

I was like well , it's a great study . They're

12:07

like well , how are you bringing it into craft ? I'm

12:10

like I'm not . Where does the boast

12:12

and hits go in my circle ? It

12:14

doesn't . Where

12:16

do these pieces and particles

12:18

and how they interact go into that

12:21

four element and spirit circle ? They

12:24

don't . The concepts may

12:26

be in parallel , but

12:28

it doesn't necessarily translate

12:30

. But there's a lot of

12:32

things out there . I'm sorry , go ahead .

12:35

No , I was just going to say I find it easier to use sometimes

12:38

quantum physics , especially on the podcast

12:40

, because I don't reveal

12:42

mysteries Again

12:44

parallel . I know they're not the same or anything

12:46

, but sometimes using that

12:49

allows me to , I think , explain

12:51

what's going on without giving away any mysteries

12:53

.

12:54

But you can use metaphysical stuff

12:56

too . I mean , you can use metaphysical theory to do

12:58

that , you can talk about elemental theory to that , and all

13:00

that stuff is available from

13:03

places outside of craft and

13:05

we teach that . So

13:08

I can very easily start talking about the divine mind

13:10

, the higher mind , universal mind and the linkage between the

13:12

subconscious and the conscious mind and this , that , that , blah

13:15

, blah , blah . And I can talk about

13:17

the interactions between the elements and the this and the

13:19

that . That all makes

13:21

sense . But I think that back

13:23

to our original piece is you

13:25

were saying that it's very different now . Very free

13:28

will , very open . We've told

13:30

people do as you will . Yes

13:32

, we've published that for not

13:35

we , but it's been published for

13:37

decades . Do what you

13:39

will , shall be the whole of the law , yes

13:42

. And then people are empowered

13:44

and they feel filled with spirit and they

13:46

want to express , and then their expression

13:48

grabs other people and gets them filled with

13:51

spirit . But the person that started

13:53

expressing it suddenly feels like oh

13:55

well , you know , I'm just . It feeds

13:57

their ego , which stops

13:59

their growth , which stops

14:02

them from harming other people's

14:04

spiritual growth .

14:06

I like that . I

14:09

mean it makes perfect sense .

14:11

I know of a lot of people that have gotten their

14:13

third degrees . Gotten

14:16

their third degree and the

14:18

universe spins them out and

14:21

says , nope , you're not going to hurt students , you're

14:23

not going to hurt people . You will intentionally

14:26

do it , but the energy's not

14:28

in alignment . They

14:31

have to learn and grow more before they can actually try

14:33

to teach others .

14:35

Yes , excuse me , I

14:37

mean it's very hard to

14:39

push yourself sometimes

14:42

through this , to keep on learning , to keep on

14:44

growing , to keep on questioning .

14:47

Oh , I don't know , that's a third degree . If you're not

14:49

getting hit in the head with a 2 by 4 every day , you're

14:51

not doing your job .

14:53

One 2 by 4? .

14:55

Yes , one . Yeah , we're going to

14:57

whack a day , yeah .

15:00

Yeah that was a very positive statement . Sometimes

15:04

you feel like you're being played by a whack-a-mole .

15:08

Yeah , I mean . It's a journey

15:10

, it's a quest , it's a daily

15:13

, it's not a role

15:15

you put on and take off . At the end

15:17

of the day , it's you , live it , you

15:20

breathe it , you are it

15:22

and it

15:24

is you .

15:25

Yes , and I'm sorry . You're not going

15:27

to gain enlightenment

15:29

or wisdom by sitting in your mom's

15:32

basement playing video games all day .

15:34

No .

15:35

You got to get out , you got to experience , yeah

15:38

, so I mean , that's the main

15:40

way we gain wisdom .

15:42

I will say this I can remember back in

15:44

mid-late 90s I

15:47

don't know if I knew , even knew you at that point I

15:50

can remember mid-late 90s . There

15:52

were a lot of people that were looking for teachers and

15:55

because they were in outlying

15:57

areas they had problems finding teachers . So

15:59

they were growing things grassroots on their own , which

16:01

is what they had to do to do what they wanted to do to practice

16:03

which you know that that was

16:05

an interesting thing in itself

16:08

, but I think that with the

16:10

expanded communication and the linkages

16:13

and the ability to find people online

16:15

and talk to people and communicate

16:18

via social media and via the

16:20

internet , I think it has helped

16:22

a lot of people to find their

16:24

teacher . I think

16:26

that's been a good thing , whichever

16:28

teacher that needs to be , I

16:30

mean .

16:31

I hate to be this one . We've gotten

16:34

communications from people all

16:36

the way down in Georgia wanting

16:38

to take classes with us . Now

16:41

, the majority of the times when they do that I'm like why don't

16:43

you just go to Ravenwood ? But

16:49

uh , yeah , why drop all the way up

16:51

here , just go to Atlanta . But

16:54

I mean it does help . I mean

16:56

we have gotten interest in

16:58

people farther away than what we used to

17:00

back in the 90s

17:03

and stuff like that , where it was just local

17:05

people , Right . So

17:08

I mean that has .

17:09

We've got groups in California . We've

17:12

got the initiates in Albuquerque

17:14

, We've got one

17:17

of our groups just moved up to like the commerce

17:19

area , commerce Georgia

17:21

, to move closer to Athens Georgia

17:23

. And then we've got two here

17:25

in North Atlanta . There's

17:27

a lineage group in DeLonica , there's

17:30

a lineage group in Decatur . I

17:34

know there's other ones . Who am I leaving out

17:36

?

17:36

I gotta ask this question , which y'all are , much

17:38

bigger group than us how do

17:41

y'all deal with kids and parents

17:43

and inside of Okay

17:46

, this is an interesting one , and this

17:49

isn't a group by group basis , because Lady Centana

17:51

had children .

17:52

Lady Centana was a mother , she allowed

17:54

families and , first

17:57

off , we won't teach anybody under 18 . That's

17:59

not happening , right , okay . But

18:02

if you're a family and you had kids , she

18:04

would allow the kids to come , as long as they're

18:06

well behaved and the parents kept them under control . Because

18:09

if the parents didn't keep them under control , trust me , there

18:11

were 50 other witches that would , and

18:13

the kids would learn real quick to behave in certain

18:15

ways . Pessoa taakau nian ni onhaul oda alta g portfolio

18:17

, his mother , I think he

18:20

showed up at Ravenwood as a 14

18:22

year old with his mom . He

18:24

was raised in the breath . That's my high priest . Okay

18:27

, he was around in the early days , but

18:29

he was very young , he wasn't of

18:31

age . But we

18:34

leave it up to the individual high priest this

18:36

isn't high priests of the groups to

18:38

decide whether or not they're going to bring in

18:40

children or not or do a children's ministry

18:42

. Personally , I don't have kids

18:45

. I was never trained to

18:47

train children in this . I

18:50

don't want somebody else's kid be in my guinea pig

18:52

.

18:53

That's not fair , that's not smart

18:55

, okay , and then I'm

18:57

very responsible .

18:58

However , there are other group leaders

19:01

that do feel like children

19:03

are fine there , and that's fine

19:05

. I support that as well . Okay , there's

19:08

room for that within the tradition . It's just me

19:10

personally . I don't have any training in that

19:13

and I don't want to mess something

19:15

up .

19:16

I understand what you're saying . It's a little different

19:18

when you're dealing with kids compared to adults

19:21

, but it's

19:23

nice to say now , do you personally

19:25

allow people ? Do you still state that

19:27

same stance if a member

19:29

comes in with their kid ? No , because I don't want

19:31

to do it with kids .

19:32

No , I don't want to do it with kids . Now , if we have a picnic

19:34

or something , sure , right , but

19:36

as far as rituals and stuff , no , I don't allow kids

19:38

in because it's not something

19:41

, like I said , that I'm trained to deal with

19:43

throughout the evening . I have had

19:45

kids that are quote unquote 16

19:47

, 17 , 18 with their mother . I have had that

19:50

Okay , but young

19:52

children I don't .

19:54

You don't .

19:55

Okay and there's a place and a time

19:57

for kids within ritual . There's

20:01

like sabbets and grand

20:03

meetings and things . Yeah , that's perfectly appropriate , but

20:06

day-to-day basis for sabbets and

20:08

moons and stuff for us it doesn't make sense and

20:11

, like I said , I don't have any training in ministering

20:13

to children .

20:15

Okay , so now we've

20:17

talked about kids down there and Ravenwood

20:20

, because I mean , my fear is

20:22

that in the pagan community , from

20:24

what I've been seeing here lately is it's

20:27

kind of like they don't know traditions like

20:29

ours still exist , that

20:31

the traditional initiated

20:33

groups . I think

20:35

the impression that they think we disappeared

20:38

.

20:40

I think they've heard of it , they've

20:42

read about it , definitely because it is in the books

20:45

, but I think they get

20:47

the sniff of it and the sniff that they

20:49

get is damn traditionalists . So

20:52

they know we exist . But

20:54

I think when they're presented that

20:56

way , we seem a little hairy , scary , which

20:58

is why when I present myself , I

21:00

present myself as not

21:03

. You would not . You'd see me in the store and

21:05

you wouldn't think anything about it , because

21:08

it's just a part of my life . It's not

21:10

an outfit that I put on

21:12

on Saturday night to

21:15

run around and look a certain way around

21:17

certain people to get their attention

21:19

, because that whole persona

21:21

of let me dress a certain way to

21:23

show you how witchy I am , that

21:25

feeds the ego . It's not approachable

21:28

and it's . It's oh

21:30

how powerful I am . I have this

21:32

, that , and look at the things

21:34

that I have , the things that

21:36

was behind me , and not the spiritual

21:39

inner piece of it .

21:40

It's the same shot , content with all the bumper

21:42

stickers on the back . Yeah , my

21:45

, my , my other cars of broom and all this other

21:47

stuff , yeah , yeah . So

21:50

I've never understood that either . That

21:53

is definitely something in the traditional community . I think

21:55

we're sort of beat out of us .

21:58

I don't know that it was beaten out of us . It was just never

22:00

seen as something that fed our spirit

22:02

. I mean it's

22:04

interesting because when people first start coming into craft

22:06

, the first thing they do is bash where they came from

22:08

. Yeah , whatever face that

22:11

was , they bash where they came from as

22:13

a way of negating and learning

22:15

their own stuff . So the first thing you've got to do is get

22:17

them out of bashing mode right

22:19

, and sometimes bashing mode includes

22:22

dressing a certain way . Think about

22:24

it when you were a teenager and you wanted to shock your

22:26

parents , what would you do ? You listened . Or

22:28

, years ago , you would listen to louder

22:30

music , louder , louder , metal music

22:32

, whatever , or something Uh-huh you could put

22:34

in with them . My mother listened to little Richard

22:37

in the 50s , drove my opera singer

22:39

of grandfather nuts . I listened

22:41

, yeah , because I

22:43

was in the middle you know . My mom was like okay

22:45

. My dad was like , oh yeah , great , what's that band ? My

22:48

mom was like I can't stand that stuff . But there's also

22:50

dressing differently and being

22:53

more provocative . Is

22:55

it in your teen years to start showing your

22:57

independence ? That's part of that , that

22:59

independent growing up experience

23:01

in the late 20s , late teens

23:03

, early 20s to set

23:06

yourself separate from your appearance . Well , it's

23:08

the same thing in craft , because

23:10

you start breaking away

23:12

from that which you were

23:14

raised in , whether whatever faith

23:17

you had , it attuned to , and

23:19

now you have to negate that , be

23:21

it word or deed or action

23:24

or outfit , shoes

23:26

, hair , jewelry , whatever and

23:29

shock everybody into this is who I am

23:31

now to help prove that point . It's

23:34

the same thing . It's

23:39

the same thing . Think about teenagers

23:41

. Teenagers are going to try your patience

23:43

as they go through and figure

23:46

out their independence and define themselves

23:48

, which takes years to do . It's

23:50

the same thing when you convert over to a faith . This

23:52

is what this is . This actually is . It's active conversion

23:55

.

23:56

It's really the same thing when they learned it as a child

23:58

, because I see the same

24:00

things as you do as adults , sort

24:02

of like going through their childhood again

24:04

as they're changing faith

24:08

. I find it actually interesting .

24:11

Yeah , because it's a redefinition

24:13

and a freeing up of old . It's

24:15

making more space for something else to come in , as

24:17

they free themselves up from something that they no longer

24:19

want to do , and that

24:21

process can take place whenever

24:24

you try to make changes internally . We were talking earlier

24:26

about how people in classes

24:29

start getting new perspectives . It's the same

24:31

process on the smaller level and sometimes it's a bigger

24:33

level , but depending on what it is you're processing

24:35

through .

24:37

Now I have heard some people and

24:39

they're wanting to introduce a

24:41

slight concept . I haven't heard too much

24:43

about the sort of like socialism

24:46

, spirituality , where

24:48

we all need to be on the same running line

24:50

. No , that's

24:53

not how it works . I don't understand

24:55

where in the world how

24:57

do you straighten everybody out to get them

24:59

all on the same line ? Anyway , that's

25:03

impossible .

25:04

That's called control and conformity . And

25:06

drinking Kool-Aid it's a cult . That's

25:08

cult , it's cultism .

25:11

Yeah .

25:11

I think that cult .

25:13

The fact that this is starting to come up in the community

25:15

bothers me a little bit , that

25:18

these people are starting to think this way .

25:19

Well , yeah , I

25:22

think there's a lot of concepts in our

25:24

normal society right now that

25:26

are harmful , and that's one of them that I think is harmful

25:28

. And if it

25:30

propagates over to craft , it's not craft , it

25:33

would never be accepted as craft , because we're individuals

25:36

and we have freedom

25:38

as a baseline of who

25:40

and what we are being

25:43

. Craft means you are free , yes

25:46

, and losing the sight of that means you are

25:48

not free . And if that's what they want to promote and

25:51

they want to have their own little cult

25:54

control thing until that starts going bad , go

25:56

for it . But

25:58

, like I said , people are going to be . People are going to be where

26:01

they need to be and learn from

26:03

that . Is that cultism

26:05

, socialism , communism

26:07

, craft point of view going to change what I

26:09

do ?

26:10

No .

26:12

Am I still going to be there ? A beacon for eyes

26:15

that can see , yes .

26:16

Yes , it's interesting

26:19

how in the world I see

26:21

people fooling themselves and

26:23

I sit back and going

26:25

. I know enough to know what

26:27

I don't know and I'm an idiot

26:29

. I

26:32

don't understand why other people can't see the same thing

26:34

.

26:34

That's humility , Because

26:38

if you sit there and say , yeah , I have here's my

26:40

armor , and if there's a chink in my

26:42

armor , oh my gosh , there's

26:44

a fear factor of somebody having a chink in their armor

26:46

. I can tell you how many times I said you

26:48

know what I was wrong . I

26:50

completely got this wrong . I was wrong , I've

26:52

learned from it and I

26:54

apologize . That's

26:57

a big deal . I mean , I'm human , but

26:59

when you have your armor so built

27:01

up and you're so afraid to have a chink

27:03

in the armor and let something

27:05

break through to find that you are an infallible

27:08

being underneath there , that's problem , that's

27:11

ego and that's not humility .

27:14

Now to discuss . When

27:17

we do get stuff wrong , we admit it , but

27:19

at the same time , when do we not

27:21

give up the ghost , when do we

27:23

not cross that line ?

27:26

I don't think it's an all or nothing thing . I

27:28

think there's a valid either . There's

27:30

a valid piece that says , within

27:33

any situation , you own part

27:36

of it , as do others , and

27:38

validly looking

27:41

at that and taking ownership

27:43

for your stuff and not

27:46

taking ownership for other people's

27:48

thing is an act of discernment . It

27:51

is true , queen of swords in the tarot

27:53

. It is discernment and

27:55

taking responsibility for your stuff

27:58

is the important part . Not

28:01

taking responsibility for someone else's stuff

28:03

is just important . That's

28:06

authenticity . That is authenticity

28:09

.

28:10

I completely agree with you 100% . It

28:13

amazes me how many people will give up

28:15

their values when

28:18

challenged just a little versus

28:21

other people who've got no , no , this is

28:23

the value I have . I want to stick with this . It

28:25

works for me . You

28:27

can't change it , no matter what .

28:29

You mean like if you're in a situation with another person

28:31

, they'll give up their values to keep the person around

28:33

. Yes , that's , that's

28:36

okay , that is that

28:38

drives me Now that

28:40

comes from fear of rejection , that

28:43

comes from abandonment issues and fear of rejection

28:45

. You think so ? Oh

28:47

yeah , because you think about it . If

28:50

you and I got into a fight right

28:53

and we have honestly years ago- yes

28:55

, we have , we

28:58

have .

28:58

I can go for a bit .

28:59

If me you ever agree on everything the world

29:01

will employ , I'm telling you , we get into

29:03

a fight and the emotions get involved , right , and

29:06

I am concerned and afraid of abandonment

29:08

and afraid of rejection from you . I am going

29:10

to change my values because it is more

29:12

meaningful me to keep someone in my

29:14

life , even though they're abusive or

29:16

even though I'm putting energy out

29:19

. This is all shadow , chef . This is all shadows

29:21

. This is all . This is all I'm . If

29:23

I'm afraid and I

29:25

don't see my , my self worth

29:28

is high enough to stand my

29:30

ground and let the chips

29:32

fall , Because it's more

29:34

important to me to have these attachments

29:36

around me that feed me in some

29:39

way , allow me to be a victim . Which

29:41

is or not victims period ? No

29:43

, which is or not victims

29:46

? No they're

29:48

not . I am tired of victim

29:50

. Victim , oh so no . Yes

29:52

, Something crappy happened

29:54

. Become a survivor , move

29:57

past it and quit

29:59

holding like a sign around your neck .

30:02

It doesn't help .

30:04

I'm tired of everybody being so offended

30:06

. I'm

30:09

not here . I'm not here to be unkind

30:11

, for no reason , but

30:14

I'm allowed to be me , just as much as you are allowed

30:16

to be you and I will more than happily let you

30:18

be you and you more and happy let me be

30:20

me .

30:21

I'm loving the fact that you keep on the demonstrating

30:24

how , in the world which is , fix their own

30:26

problems , because we are the source

30:29

of our own problems . Heal

30:33

by self which it

30:37

is a wonderful thing to have and

30:39

to realize okay , no matter what the problem is

30:41

, I can fix it .

30:43

I just got to do the work or take the

30:45

time or take the responsibility and

30:47

take the hit and learn from it , move

30:49

past it , heal .

30:51

I can't tell you how many bosses loved me because

30:53

I'd walk in with a machine going hey

30:55

, I just broke this , how the hell do I fix it

30:58

? And they would all be like

31:00

oh well , here's how we keep you from doing that

31:02

again there you go .

31:04

There you go , problem fixed . It's

31:08

the same thing in craft , though , because sometimes you make decisions

31:10

about clubbing direction or

31:12

gosh I've done

31:14

one or two botched rituals in my life and

31:17

when you have to go back and look , okay , what went wrong , what did I

31:19

do wrong , what should I never do again , what

31:22

should I try to do again ? What , what

31:24

kind of worked but seemed interesting , and

31:26

what's that ? You

31:28

know you have to go through that in every situation

31:31

in your life , but you have to take responsibility for what you did

31:33

.

31:33

Yep .

31:34

And not look people . People

31:36

do not get up in the morning every

31:38

morning and go . How can I scrunch

31:41

it up today ? No , they don't . It's

31:43

just through their normal actions

31:45

and their normal thoughts and their

31:47

normal conscious mind that

31:49

something goes awry all the time

31:51

, and we're here to learn and fix that

31:53

. No one is is out to

31:55

get me .

31:56

No , maybe nobody's out to get me and

31:58

nobody's out to get you , Sort of .

32:00

but but

32:04

that's

32:06

been times there have been people out to get me with the way

32:08

. It's all

32:10

right .

32:12

You know , but I'm not

32:14

going to sit here and worry about it every

32:16

single day .

32:17

No .

32:18

And there's no reason to fear

32:20

.

32:20

Don't feed the fear .

32:22

You know I yes , I'm gay and

32:24

I live in a very small town . I

32:27

have no fear of going out in public

32:29

on a day . I don't see how people

32:31

can live like that , that they're scared

32:33

that they're going to depends on

32:35

where you are and what is going to be mean to

32:38

them just because , we're out in public but it

32:40

depends on where you live in the world to true

32:43

you know .

32:44

You know being being different in the Bible about

32:47

has become easier over time . Yes

32:50

whether it's from a religious

32:52

standpoint , a sexuality

32:54

standpoint . Outliers of

32:56

conformity have

32:58

either been leaders or

33:01

and set new precedent and

33:03

move towards something different

33:05

and change makers , or they have been

33:07

chunned , and it depends on what

33:10

you're doing and really the energy behind you to think

33:12

about it . I mean , those ones

33:15

that are leaders and change makers really

33:17

are not doing it . They're doing it from place to the heart , right

33:21

. The ones that are that are shunned

33:24

it ended up in the gutter are the ones that are , you know , with

33:26

the ego .

33:28

So back to that ego . That

33:30

ego is the death of all of us .

33:33

But it's not ego , like you think you get his to go though

33:35

ego . No , it's . It's . It's

33:38

the definition and protection of

33:40

your identity . That

33:43

is where your ego comes in . It's not

33:46

, yes , it's making it about

33:48

you . And as a craft leader

33:50

, it is never about you as a third

33:52

degree , you don't exist . You do not

33:55

exist . You are a conduit . That

33:57

is it . That's it

33:59

. Everybody thinks this pyramid

34:01

is oh , the leaders are at the top and it's all

34:03

about the leaders . It's upside

34:06

down , it's all about the students .

34:09

I have to admit there are the teachers provide the teaching

34:12

.

34:12

That's all I mean that's it .

34:15

I mean . There's a lot of times I've said why

34:17

did I do this ? It was

34:19

easier at second .

34:23

I went to see Lady Santana one time when she was in North

34:25

Carolina . I stayed over night . The

34:28

next morning we were having coffee and we

34:31

were talking about some different stuff and I said , can't

34:33

, I , can't I just start all over and put another

34:35

white cord on ? She's like absolutely not , why

34:41

not ? She's like my dear , no

34:43

, my

34:46

dear , no , you need

34:48

to keep going . But , lady , it's so much

34:50

easier as any of us . Lady

34:52

Maya , no .

34:59

I'm sorry . We sit there , we tell people once

35:01

you go through this , we cannot put the genie back in the

35:03

bottom . There's

35:05

no way to go back . There's nothing . No , it's

35:08

done .

35:08

Which is why you are challenged like you were

35:10

at the gate at first degree .

35:12

Yep .

35:14

Thanks for listening . Join us next week

35:16

for another episode . Peg and

35:18

Coffee Talk is brought to you by Lifetime

35:20

and Seminary . Please visit

35:22

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35:25

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35:27

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35:29

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35:31

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35:56

days so walk with me

35:58

till morning .