0:25

Welcome to Peg and Coffee Talk . Here are

0:27

your hosts , Lady Alba and Lord

0:29

Knight .

0:32

Alright , Lord Knight . Why

0:35

do Christian holidays have

0:37

to be pagan ? Go

0:39

ahead , explain what you were just explaining

0:42

.

0:43

My problem is every

0:45

Christmas , every Easter

0:49

and all this . I see the videos 15

0:51

times . Is this really pagan

0:53

? Is this really Christian ? Can

0:55

we just really stop ? Oh

1:03

my god , okay , I'm sorry

1:05

, I've had enough to hear . Okay

1:07

, Every set .

1:10

Alright , hold on , let's dissect , let's

1:12

dissect . So I know exactly what

1:14

you're saying . Yes , every single

1:17

Christmas season there's

1:20

50 million posts to social

1:22

media about how Christmas trees

1:24

are really pagan and

1:27

the Yule log is pagan and

1:29

hanging stockings is pagan

1:32

and how all of these things

1:34

that people do are

1:36

really pagan practices . But

1:40

it's still because we are in a time

1:43

where the overwhelming religious majority

1:45

is still Christian and

1:48

, as a result , I think

1:50

some of them do it out

1:52

of genuine curiosity and

1:55

I think others do it because

1:58

, I don't

2:00

know , they're almost trying to find fault

2:02

with their own faith . They're

2:04

trying to basically perhaps steer

2:06

people into some other

2:09

type of fundamentalist belief where

2:11

maybe they take the pagan

2:13

out of Christmas . I don't

2:15

know , but yeah

2:18

, every holiday Easter , really

2:21

, I mean , I think the only one we're exempt from is 4th

2:23

of July , and I'm sure somebody's going to make an association

2:26

with fireworks at some point and it's going to be pagan

2:28

too . They blow shit up . They're

2:30

pagan .

2:32

Well , the Chinese did come up with that , I

2:34

know , and they're not Christians . They're not Christians

2:36

.

2:37

So technically right , they were one

2:39

of the original heathens . I so

2:46

, but this is

2:49

funny because to me it's also

2:51

no different than

2:53

the people who go . Pasta's

2:56

not really Italian . Now

2:59

that too is Chinese . So basically , the

3:01

whole point of this podcast is that everything is

3:03

Chinese really .

3:05

At the end of the day , Especially

3:07

everything on Amazon Right everything

3:09

is Chinese .

3:10

We're Chinese . All our foods are Chinese

3:12

. No , I'm kidding , but

3:14

it's the same thing . It's like

3:16

challenging the knowledge

3:19

or challenging that

3:21

belief . Somehow . That's

3:23

it . It's challenging the

3:26

faith or it's challenging that person's

3:28

belief system . But

3:30

I do like what you said off my

3:32

A little while ago , because

3:35

you said you know , is Christmas

3:37

really pagan ? No , Christmas

3:39

is Christmas . Christmas

3:41

is really pagan .

3:44

And then the whole Santa Claus thing is cultural

3:47

. I don't know how to explain that it's not a

3:49

religion .

3:50

There are right . There are many

3:52

, many , many versions of

3:55

Santa across the globe

3:57

, but they are all

3:59

associated with Christmas time

4:01

, so in

4:04

some are more pagan than others . Hell

4:06

, one of them is flat out a witch , which is really

4:08

funny .

4:09

And don't get us started on Krampus .

4:11

Yeah , well , we love him .

4:13

He's so kindly , but

4:15

again why do we have to have this

4:17

argument over and over , and over again

4:20

?

4:20

Well , here's

4:22

me . Personally , I don't mind

4:24

it . I don't mind

4:26

it because I feel like it's

4:28

bringing awareness , and

4:31

with every new generation

4:34

of Christians , I

4:37

always get a little giggle because I go he

4:40

, the next time they look at their

4:42

Christmas tree they're gonna be like huh

4:45

, okay , there

4:49

, there may be just

4:51

a tiny bit of

4:54

sympathy that comes

4:56

from the process . If one

4:59

of them goes . Well

5:01

, maybe we're not that different

5:03

, or maybe maybe these , you know

5:05

these , these people practicing witchcraft

5:07

, right ? Maybe it's not what I thought it was

5:10

, maybe they're just putting a tree up

5:12

to and putting present . If it

5:14

serves that purpose , fantastic

5:17

if it helps to bridge

5:20

the gap even a little .

5:22

But that's not what they're doing

5:24

.

5:25

Well , what do you think they're doing ?

5:26

Oh , oh no , lord

5:28

, God forbid . We

5:30

need to make Christians quit celebrating

5:32

Christmas the way they are . We need to

5:34

get them to quit using the sanny cloth . Those

5:37

are our stuff . How dare you a culturally

5:39

appropriate ?

5:43

Listen first off . The

5:45

first time I hear a pagan utter

5:48

the words cultural appropriation

5:50

, I'm gonna smack the shit

5:52

out of them . Okay , I , because

5:56

we know . No , no

5:58

, sit down , no

6:00

, come on . We

6:03

have been culturally appropriating everything

6:05

for as long as I can remember

6:07

. So if you're gonna point a finger and

6:10

blame someone else for a culturally

6:12

appropriating , piss off

6:14

. But

6:18

I will say we

6:20

are one of the last Bastions

6:22

or institutions where

6:25

there is more tolerance

6:27

for that . I have friends

6:29

who practice voodoo and they

6:32

look at my lily white ass

6:34

and my Brigitte

6:37

and my Papa leg , but on

6:39

my altar and go okay

6:42

, I see you all right

6:44

. And , and

6:46

there's no issue , do

6:48

I claim the heritage ? Do

6:50

I claim the cultural aspect ? Of course

6:53

not , I can't . But

6:55

do I appreciate it ? Yeah , do

6:58

I learn about it ? I try . Do

7:00

I read ? Yeah , I mean , so

7:02

we can like nod to each other and

7:04

it's cool , we're good . But

7:07

that , oh no , that's come

7:10

on , come on look .

7:12

This is where I've been seeing it head

7:14

here lately , every time they talk about

7:16

it and I'm like , okay , oh

7:18

, it's time to stop . All

7:20

right , seriously .

7:21

So , basically , by

7:23

this viewpoint , if a Christian

7:25

family was going

7:27

to celebrate Christmas

7:30

purely

7:33

god that's a weird word , but it

7:35

would be just a Catholic a manger

7:37

.

7:39

No , it would be just Catholic math .

7:42

But no .

7:43

Oh , it wouldn't be , you wouldn't have .

7:46

Why not ? Why wouldn't ? Why can't you have the

7:48

baby and the manger and the wise men ? I

7:50

see , I mean it's part of their biblical story

7:53

.

7:54

There are a few Christian traditions

7:56

that do not celebrate these things

7:58

.

7:58

That's true , but I mean .

8:00

They do not do the Easter bunny , they do not

8:03

put up the tree yeah , all they do . They

8:05

go to church . Yeah , they worship God

8:07

. They come home and

8:09

they do the same thing on Easter . Look , and

8:11

I'm fine with that .

8:12

That's boring , that's boring . I mean

8:15

, if it works for them , that's fine

8:17

, but that is a very un-festive

8:20

, very non-celebratory

8:24

view of faith . And

8:27

I mean , if that works for

8:29

them , that's fine . But

8:32

most other faiths

8:34

enjoy some level of pageantry

8:36

and some let me the songs and the music

8:39

. So I don't know that's . This

8:41

is really interesting . But

8:43

to me

8:45

, yeah , it's a form of

8:47

unity . To me it's the only reason

8:50

why I can go to my

8:52

very Christian friends

8:54

Christmas parties and

8:58

feel comfortable , because

9:00

I look around and I see

9:03

things that

9:05

represent my faith in that

9:07

process and I see

9:09

things that I can associate

9:12

with that festive time of year and , yeah , it's

9:15

nice .

9:16

I mean everybody seems to think that

9:18

none of us all get alone . You

9:21

just held a party , not ?

9:22

lonely guy .

9:24

And again , this was not necessarily a temple

9:26

function . It was not a temple function , but that's just it

9:28

.

9:29

That was a hodgepodge

9:31

of humans .

9:33

You had . I mean , I know I was there . Lord Oswum

9:35

was there , there was a couple of people from temple there , there were some

9:37

people that were not , and

9:39

everybody got along fine .

9:41

Everybody had a great time and

9:43

at no point did I

9:45

feel that it was in this . I

9:47

never pulled anybody aside . I

9:49

never had a sidebar of like

9:52

, oh we're not going to talk about , we're

9:54

not going to talk craft today , or or , oh

9:56

, those are my , my pagan friends . No

9:59

fuck that Go mingle

10:01

, meet some people and

10:03

have a discussion about whatever and

10:05

wherever , and it

10:07

was great . I don't know , I don't

10:09

know .

10:11

I guess that's what gets me is . This

10:13

is what I keep on hearing in all of this

10:15

. Under all of this is we're

10:18

not allowed to get along with each other now and

10:20

then . I don't .

10:21

Everybody's got a chip on their shoulder . That's

10:25

, that's the , the era we're living in , right

10:27

? Everybody's mad , everybody's angry

10:29

, everybody has

10:31

these really

10:34

really intensely opinionated

10:36

views . I mean , look , if we want

10:38

to get super technical and

10:40

I know there's a few pagan out

10:43

that's potentially pagan scholars listening

10:45

to this who are going to be clapping and

10:48

or hallelujahing along

10:50

with me on this If we want

10:52

to get technical , jesus

10:54

Christ of Nazareth was not

10:56

born on December 25th . No

10:59

, he was born in the summer

11:01

.

11:02

Yes , and and it

11:04

is believed that it might . He might have been been

11:06

three years old or so before the wise

11:09

man reached him .

11:10

Yes , there are so many

11:12

aspects of the story

11:15

of Christ's birth that

11:17

go a few thousand

11:20

years before Christ

11:22

into the Sumerians , and

11:25

there is a story of a boy king

11:27

and it's almost identical

11:29

.

11:30

There's several stories like that

11:32

of Virgin Virgin

11:35

births , of course .

11:37

And so we look at this and we

11:39

go so does it really fucking matter

11:41

?

11:42

Seriously .

11:43

Does it ? I mean , I don't feel

11:45

like it makes a shit bit of difference

11:48

. Is it ours , is it theirs

11:50

, is it not ? Look , here's my

11:52

take on it . People , right now

11:54

, what is going on in Jerusalem

11:56

and in Gaza ? That

11:59

is the direct result of

12:02

two groups of people that

12:04

cannot put their three yeah , three , technically

12:07

, you're right , three who cannot put their

12:09

shit aside and go . Does

12:11

it really matter ?

12:13

Right .

12:13

Does it matter ?

12:14

No , no , again

12:17

, again and again . From a pagan point of view

12:19

, we're talking about a piece of land

12:21

that is absolutely worthless . There's no resources

12:23

or anything there , and they're

12:25

fighting over a mount to

12:28

prove a point .

12:30

But that's what I'm saying . If we go

12:32

down that path , how

12:34

long ? Hello , how long before

12:37

? That's that's

12:39

it . We're going to be in the exact same situation

12:42

, with groups

12:44

fighting it out for some kind of

12:46

bizarre ownership or supremacy

12:49

.

12:50

Of some you didn't know in the beginning . Right .

12:53

Now . Yet I

12:55

find this fascinating and I'm going to throw it out

12:57

here , because we're talking about you

12:59

all in Christmas and all that but yet

13:01

African Americans

13:04

adopted Kwanzaa

13:06

in this country , which started when you

13:08

and I were kids . Like that's the first

13:10

time I ever heard of Kwanzaa .

13:13

And from my understanding that could be wrong . Kwanzaa

13:16

is not even religious , it is completely

13:18

cultural .

13:19

Exactly Right . It's more cultural

13:21

than anything else . But the point

13:23

is it has slowly

13:25

but steadily picked up traction . A lot of

13:27

people are incorporating into their Christmas

13:29

beliefs . We're not backlashing

13:31

on that . Not , at least not in my

13:33

house , like most people , are like cool

13:36

Kwanzaa , come to the party , let's go .

13:38

Well , I mean , let's think about it this way Five

13:41

, ten years ago , would you have been

13:43

able to go out and find like a yard flag or something

13:45

with the word yule on it ? No

13:47

, and now and now , I'm everywhere

13:50

, everywhere .

13:51

If you did , it was yule tie , yule Something

13:54

. Yule tied or were my favorite

13:56

yule time . Yeah , that's

13:58

not it .

13:59

That's something just saying yule , or something

14:01

no .

14:02

Now you see it all over the place .

14:03

Now it's everywhere you

14:05

can buy yule logs now .

14:07

Yes , yes , but in

14:09

Europe you always could . Yeah , but

14:12

then you also , you know , but , yeah , same thing . I

14:14

mean , how many of my Jewish friends have I heard

14:16

over the years go ? It's such a bullshit

14:19

that you walk

14:21

into a store and there's 12

14:23

aisles of Christmas and

14:25

Hanukkah is in this four

14:28

by two section

14:30

on one shelf . You

14:32

know , they're like that sucks . They're

14:35

like why we always feel like

14:37

, right , we're being disengaged

14:39

yeah . And

14:42

I'm like , but that makes so

14:44

much sense . I'm like , why can't

14:46

it all just integrate , right ? Why

14:48

can't it all just live together

14:50

?

14:51

I don't see what it even matters

14:53

, I mean because when

14:55

I come home , when I come

14:57

home into privacy of my own home , I'm

14:59

worshiping the way I want to worship , right

15:01

. When I'm at temple , we worship

15:04

the way temple worships , right . If

15:06

you don't like that , you go to a different temple , right ? What

15:11

makes people think that they have to

15:14

own that

15:17

?

15:17

this , I mean , I understand this .

15:19

You know , this is my culture , or this ? Is

15:22

the way we do it Right , and

15:24

I understand that . But for me to

15:26

sit there and go no , it's just ours

15:28

.

15:30

Yeah , I don't know , that is to

15:32

me . That is weird . It's

15:35

the exact opposite

15:37

of what the season is meant to embody

15:40

.

15:41

Let me put it to you this way . Let me ask you this we

15:43

have a poem there in Saoan , that we read each year

15:45

. How bad would you feel if you went to another

15:47

ritual somewhere else and they started to read the same poem

15:50

?

15:51

I wouldn't feel bad .

15:53

I wouldn't either .

15:54

I would actually be quite intrigued

15:57

. I would probably be

15:59

like , hey , I know that one , you

16:01

know , like I mean , see

16:04

, that's what I mean .

16:05

I think that Is this the

16:07

difference of our mindset ? Because , again , me and

16:09

you would be the same . Like whoa , I know

16:11

this .

16:12

That's cool . I don't know

16:14

. I don't know . By the same

16:17

token , though , I mean I look at , this

16:19

is what I go back to . When

16:21

I was a kid , I

16:24

remember Christmas

16:26

, the day right

16:29

, very specifically , the day had

16:32

a feeling that

16:35

and it wasn't about presents , it

16:37

wasn't about being excited . No , it was quiet

16:40

and it was peaceful

16:42

and it was calm

16:44

and you

16:47

know , it was like the morning

16:49

after the first night .

16:50

Yeah , it was that kind of quiet

16:52

.

16:53

It's a very but it was always like

16:55

, right , everybody's just kind of huddled up together

16:57

in the house , cooking , eating

16:59

, and there's

17:02

something about that

17:04

. That , to me

17:06

, that's what always meant Christmas

17:08

holidays . I don't give

17:10

a good goddamn what you want to call

17:13

it . Yes , I would just like to experience

17:15

that a few times a year . Yes , that

17:18

and that's lovely , but

17:21

we've gotten so

17:23

obsessed with , I

17:25

don't know , representation

17:28

.

17:28

Yes .

17:29

Then maybe that's it . Everybody is , you

17:32

know , on their representation bandwagon

17:34

and everybody needs to be their

17:36

own unique little snowflake . Well , I'm like . Well

17:38

, good luck with that . When you fall on the ground and

17:40

you're all together , guess what ? You are Snow

17:42

.

17:44

An avalanche .

17:45

Yeah , you're just , but you're just snow

17:48

collectively , so what

17:50

does it matter , can't

17:52

? Can't we just all be happy

17:54

to be in that state together ? I

17:56

will say for years

17:59

, years , it has bothered

18:01

me , especially living in the south , that

18:05

the greeting this

18:08

time of year is not more generic . I

18:11

grew up with happy holidays .

18:13

Right .

18:14

And so here it's always Merry Christmas , merry

18:16

Christmas , merry Christmas . And I do have

18:19

those moments where I'm like , not all

18:21

of us celebrate that , but

18:23

okay , that's fine

18:25

.

18:26

Haven't you ever just sat there and just said happy you'll back

18:28

to me ?

18:29

I've said happy holidays . Sure , yeah

18:31

, I just , but it's sometimes

18:33

, I think , where it annoys me or

18:35

it aggravates me is in

18:38

places where religion shouldn't be , and

18:40

to me that still stores . It's shopping

18:43

, it's . You know , retailers

18:46

, that it should be

18:48

more generic

18:51

. A store

18:53

, to me , should not take the stance

18:55

of right . It's Christmas .

18:59

Let's take the story out for a minute but what about that

19:01

individual ? What if they're just really wanting

19:03

to wish you a happy

19:05

holiday , christmas , and you ?

19:07

know what . If it's that

19:09

, then I will wish it

19:11

right back to them , because I know that's where they're

19:13

coming from .

19:14

Right , because there are people out there

19:16

you can tell .

19:17

Yes , that is their belief

19:19

and yes , I will

19:21

acknowledge it for them in

19:23

kind , because what they're really saying

19:26

to me is they're blessing me . Yes

19:28

, it's a blessing . It's a blessing , but it's

19:30

also cute . It's the same way I

19:32

get a little giggle right when

19:34

people in the South say have a blessed

19:37

day .

19:40

Yes .

19:40

Because what do I say back to them ?

19:43

Yes , you have a blessed day

19:45

as well , and I put that little spin

19:47

on it , right , but

19:49

that's universal .

19:52

That mean what is blessed , blessed

19:54

, right , thank you . Thank you . I

19:58

will take all the blessings you would like to bestow

20:00

upon my head .

20:02

I think I mean you might have a problem with this

20:04

is when it sounds very robotic . The

20:07

cashier has done that 50 times . Is

20:09

that person that will sit there and look at me ? And

20:12

align with me and go yes

20:14

, ma'am , blah , blah , blah .

20:15

You're like whoa Wait a minute .

20:17

Yeah , you say ma'am 50

20:19

times a day .

20:20

Yeah , didn't even register .

20:22

Didn't even register what you said , and

20:24

I just . You just got to sit there and tickle like you're

20:27

at the end of your shift , aren't you ?

20:29

I do get really tickled now

20:31

, though , when I see people with the stickers

20:34

on their cars that say blessed

20:36

because it's blessed

20:39

. It's blessed and

20:41

I'm like because I think that's great , but

20:44

I don't know , it's yeah the need

20:47

for holiday supremacy

20:49

.

20:49

I don't get it .

20:51

So funny when you think about

20:53

it . The whole reason that

20:56

these holidays were overlapped

20:58

the way they were and integrated the way

21:00

they were was to integrate the people

21:02

. Yes , so

21:06

to create a cohesion , a

21:08

cohesive culture . Yeah , so

21:10

why are we going backwards ? What are we doing ?

21:12

I mean , come on , it's really

21:14

funny , and I do .

21:15

I think that when people get mad about

21:17

it or when they get really upset , I'm

21:20

like whoa , slow down . Like

21:22

what happened . Did your dog

21:24

die on Christmas ? Like what

21:26

.

21:27

Again , you know who I'm talking about . So it's people that go from

21:29

zero to infinite

21:31

speed and you're sitting back going

21:33

. Where did that come from ? Are

21:35

they really ?

21:36

It's very common . Now it really is

21:38

. So , yeah , I mean , is

21:41

it good to know ? Sure , yeah

21:43

, do

21:45

we need to ? Here's the thing you

21:48

can educate somebody without

21:50

taking away their joy .

21:53

Yes .

21:53

You can educate without shitting

21:56

on someone's beliefs .

21:59

Well , and I find it funny that Pagans

22:01

doing this after the

22:03

badgering , some of us get from

22:05

Christians .

22:05

Yeah , I know .

22:07

And you're sitting there doing the same thing .

22:09

I don't smug , we're smug . That's

22:11

the problem . It's just

22:13

that it's that sick perverse

22:15

. It was done to me , so

22:17

I'm going to do it to somebody else , so I feel

22:19

better . No , that doesn't . That's not how that works . You

22:22

just end up feeling like shit .

22:23

Yeah .

22:24

You feel like shit because then you realize that you were

22:26

cruel or that

22:29

you were rude and then

22:31

that's going to sit there and weigh on you heavily

22:33

and you

22:35

suddenly realize you broke one of the

22:37

major tenants of our faith and

22:40

you're putting shit out , so of course you're

22:42

going to get shit right back , so

22:44

knock it off , you know

22:46

? just let people enjoy

22:49

themselves , let them have

22:51

this joyous time

22:53

. You can participate

22:56

and again , not

22:58

need to be this killjoy

23:01

in the room . I mean , come on , I have friends who aren't

23:03

religious at all and they still show up to the Christmas parties

23:06

dressed in their Grinch outfits

23:08

or their you know , I've got one guy

23:10

. He owns a head to toe

23:12

three piece suit where he looks

23:15

like wrapping paper . You

23:17

know what I mean . Or the other Christmas sweaters

23:19

, like why does it matter ? Like

23:22

you can still participate , yes

23:24

, yeah .

23:26

And after that I need coffee .

23:28

Yeah , let's get some , you will copy yeah

23:30

.

23:33

Thanks for listening . Join us next week

23:35

for another episode . Peg and Coffee

23:37

Talk is brought to you by Life Temple

23:39

and Seminary . Please visit

23:41

us at lifetimepleseminaryorg

23:43

for more information , as well as links

23:45

to our social media Facebook , Discord

23:48

, Twitter , YouTube and Reddit

23:50

.

23:51

We travel down this trodden

23:53

path , the maze of stone

23:56

and mire . Just

23:58

hold my hand as we pass

24:01

by a sea of blazing

24:03

fires , and so

24:06

it is the end of our

24:08

days . So walk with me

24:10

till morning breaks , and

24:12

so it is the end

24:14

of our days , bye

24:29

.