Aine 0:00 

This podcast has been produced in partnership with Diva International (makers of the DivaCup) and Media One Creative. This is Pandora's Box: a podcast that is on a mission to uncover how periods affect the lives of those that experience them around the globe. Join us as we travel the world to find real stories by real women and people who menstruate, who are championing change and bringing light to the global impact of menstruation. I'm Aine, 

Cait 0:27 

and I'm Cait, your hosts.

Cait 0:32 

Today, we're talking about the future of menstrual products. From using nothing, to rags, pads, tampons, and menstrual cups, the innovation of period products has made it easier and more hygienic for people to be on their periods. I have used tampons, and panty liners, and I didn't really love them. And I was introduced to menstrual cups, but that was when my period started getting super light. So I really liked the menstrual cup, it was so easy, but it just didn't make sense for me at that point in time. So I've been using period panties, which I love because I don't really have to do much, just wash them like normal underwear. And they're great for a super light flow and I don't really have to think about them at all.

Aine 1:17 

I remember starting out when I was first got my period, like tampons were kind of like a risqué item that nobody really used, I guess. And I remembered there was all this talk at school and you remember learning about periods and everyone would say, "Oh, tampons give you toxic shock syndrome." But then out of necessity, I started using tampons at some point. But I discovered, through this journey actually, the menstrual cup. And it really is a life-changing product. You never really need to think about your period. Conversations around periods have always felt like a dirty little secret. Nobody talks about it. It's just something that happens every month.

Cait 1:52 

To understand further, we brought in Elissa Stein, who's a menstrual cultural historian, to talk about the struggles women have had with products in the past.

Elissa Stein  2:01 

I spoke to some people in the Midwest in their 80s. And they said they still remember boiling parties. Every Monday in their town, they have a big iron pot and they bring all their dirty rags and just wash them and the men would leave for the day. And that's how the women in their community took care of things. But it's hard to even find folklore about that because it really is so secretive. You know, the thing about menstruation is that it is always been a shameful, dirty secret. People didn't write about it; people didn't talk about it. And until products came onto the market in the early 1920s, late 1910s, there was nothing about it out there at all. Another thing to keep in mind is traditional underwear wasn't a thing until the 20th century. So there's no way you can even put a pad. And it was when that came into being that sort of changed options for women as well. But women just didn't wear underwear. So mostly the stuff sort of went on to the back of whatever layers you were wearing. And then women would wash things out in cold water in a tub.

Aine 2:59 

Although products have advanced since the 80s, in the modern day, we still struggle with our period products. There are chemicals and pads and tampons which can lead to toxic shock syndrome. Plus, the amount of waste that comes with having a period is simply unsustainable.

Elissa Stein  3:16 

I think that for a lot of women, as we are taking more ownership of the process and of our bodies and as the conversation is growing, are looking for alternatives from these heavily-packaged, expensive products that fill landfills, that are not biodegradable, that contain bleach, which isn't healthy for our bodies. So something like a menstrual cup is a really smart option for women who just want to take a different path.

Cait 3:42 

Carinne Chambers, the CEO and Founder of Diva International, is a champion for menstrual cups. But menstrual cups weren't invented recently. Carinne talks us through their winding history and why cups didn't catch on as soon as they were invented.

Carinne Chambers-Saini  3:57 

So the history of menstrual cups is really interesting. There have been versions of menstrual cups kind of noted in history, probably for 1000s of years. I mean, this is not a new problem or a new condition that we have to deal with. Women have used sponges and different kinds of collection-type devices for a long time. But the first cup that was commercialized was in the 1930s. And it was patented by a woman in the U.S. named Leona Chalmers and she patented the very first. And they were very industrial, definitely rubber, like a harder rubber type device. And there was probably a good five, six versions that were marketed from the 1930s to the 1970s. There was one in the 1950s called the 'Tassaway', there was the 'Tassette', but one of them was actually a cup, but you disposed of it. And that one actually had gained some popularity at the time and was actually commercialized. And I think what happened is just that whole age of the 50s, where everything had to be proper and clean. And that was like cleaning products, you had to bleach and destroy everything. And it was just women weren't really using as many internal products. Still, pads were the primary products. So I don't think they really ever took off. And it really wasn't until we started doing the DivaCup, and really hitting it hard and trying to create this education and bring it mainstream. And that's one of the things. I think being a pioneer in this category was so difficult and so challenging. There wasn't really anything on the market that had really made it into mainstream. And without being mainstream, without being on the shelf, it would not have been accepted if we could have sold it forever online as a kind of niche product. But the category would not be where it is, without the work that we did in building the distribution. That key point is really I think what snowballed and created this and disrupted this whole industry and created this category. It was there all along. It's just no one had really had any success in mainstreaming the concept.

Aine 6:45 

Hiding our periods feeds into the menstrual stigma that has existed for centuries, in combination with the vague language around menstrual cups. It created a confusing message for what people are putting into their bodies.

Cait 6:57 

Today, the menstrual cup has changed lives. People are seeing real benefits to alternatives in the market and realizing that some products aren't as healthy as they appear.

Carinne Chambers-Saini  7:05 

It was funny because I think when we first started working with one of our agencies, they sent us this document and it said, you know, "We're not claiming that the DivaCup changes lives." And I was like, "That is changing. We have to take that out." I was so upset because the DivaCup changes lives. It really does. And that's not marketing speak, or I'm trying to say that. That is from years and years of what our customers are saying, what they're telling. In my own experience, it changed my life. It really did. 

Carinne Chambers-Saini  7:39 

When we found out about the original cups, and the materials, and they were actually made out of this natural gum rubber. Those products have nitrosamines, which is type of protein that creates allergic reactions, commonly known as latex. And you can develop an allergy with exposed and continued exposure to it. So it's not really ideal material used. So it took a lot of research. Like I honestly didn't know anything when we started. We just loved the concept. And we knew it needed to be modernized. But I had just graduated and I was like, "We need to make the best product that we can make." And through trial and error and doing our research, we figured out that silicone really is, it's the safest material. It's been used for over 50 years, and in lots of medical applications, especially when you use a high-grade medical silicone. We didn't want to put any coloring or pigments or dyes because those molecules are not always permanently bound to the silicone molecules and they can leak out of the material into the body. So our goal was really to create the safest, most natural product. Really, silicone comes from sand. It comes from the earth. And it's not a chemical, like it is a chemical, but it's not a man-made chemical. We felt that it was the best as far as compatibility to the body. Just talking about menstruation helps to normalize the subject and just making it part of our daily lives. We can't improve people's period experience if the topic is surrounded by so much embarrassment and silence and shame. It's just time. You know, it's we need to have these conversations.

Aine 9:35 

We're lucky that in the West we have access to healthier alternative products. But that's not the case in other parts of the world. In the global south, for example, many people don't have access to basic menstrual necessities and must resort to creating harmful makeshift products. These alternatives make them more susceptible to disease and infection.

Cait 9:54 

We chatted with Sarika Gupta, founder and facilitator of Safe N' Happy Periods to talk about how the lack of access to affordable menstrual products is impacting rural areas of India.

Sarika Gupta  10:06 

You will be really shocked in India, in rural areas, as you would have heard as well they're not really aware of what to use how to use and most of them don't have access to sanitary pads because they're not affordable to them. So they end up using 'rags', not in as in rags, but something like, they would take out cotton from their old pillow and use it for a while. So these kind of habits give rise to diseases like pelvic inflammatory disease, which is a very rampant disease in rural areas. And once you have diseases like these, it becomes very difficult to either conceive or to give birth to a child. So infertility is one very common issue arising out of not keeping menstrual hygiene or using the right product at the right time.

Aine 10:57 

We also spoke to Sabrina Rubli from Femme International about some of the alternatives people are using in East Africa. 

Sabrina Rubli  11:07 

Some of the alternative methods that we've heard about from girls in both Kenya and in Tanzania are rags which, I mean, women have been doing that for centuries: taking rag, folding it in their underwear, toilet paper, cutting up old clothes, especially the woolen school sweaters that they all have, cutting out foam from their mattresses. But if you think about it, it's like a sponge, and so when you sit on it, the liquid comes out. So when girls actually use that, they say that the when they're in school, they don't sit down during the day. They just stay standing in the back of the classroom to avoid any sort of leaking or anything like that. Other methods that we've come across are trying to wash disposable pads that have already been used, cutting disposable pads in half and just using half at a time, and then more sort of severe methods such as newspaper. We've heard of grass leaves, mud, even. Leaves are not absorbent, mud, not super absorbent either. And if you're using the mattress stuffing, of course it's not going to work very well either. And so it doesn't help girls feel comfortable or confident during the week where they've already sort of been taught that they should feel embarrassed and then there's also the very real health concerns. Those methods are typically very unhygienic when they're using the rags, they're not drying them properly, often because they don't want to hang anything with blood outside. And so they'll put them under their mattresses and dry them and then use them again the next day, but they're still damp and with reusable menstrual products, it's really important that they dry in the sun to kill that bacteria. But that's not always happening because they are afraid to hang them outside, and so it leads to some really serious health concerns, infections, really high rates of UTI, yeast infections, rashes, and different symptoms that can be completely avoided if they have a safe tool to use during their period.

Cait 13:06 

The fact that people were using the stuffing in their mattress or old clothing even leaves and dirt is really shocking to learn because it's obvious that if you are using mattress stuffing or old clothing as a solution to your period, then you're not given the choices that you deserve for menstrual products. Because it's really harmful to your health to use these alternatives, but it's really the only option in these cases.

Aine 13:35 

You do what you've got to do because otherwise, you're just going to have to bleed through your clothes and nobody wants to do that. I've been in a situation where I’ve been caught without product and not even in any way comparing my situation to the situation of some of the people that we met throughout this process. But I did what I had to do in those situations. And that is exactly what the people that we met are doing. They're just doing what they can to get by and some of those alternatives are really unhealthy and some of them are really unhygenic and it's sad that they have to go to that measure in order to just feel like they can be in society and that they can go about their day and do what they need to do. 

Cait 14:08 

In episode two, we talked about government's influence in period poverty. But what are they doing about health issues? Can you promise to provide all school girls with access to menstrual products? But Esther, the women's representative in Kenya, points out that corruption creates several barriers to doing so.

Esther Passaris  14:28 

Well the thing is, I think it's the way government procures. And corruption really is a major problem in our country. So when we have a big major contract, like sanitary towels: 500 million, and then a billion in a year in the next financial year, you want this to go to a specific person. It's not open tender. You know, for me, if you really wanted to deal with poverty all around, the women groups in India, you've got women groups that are given cottage industries that produce sanitaryware, okay, and we should learn from them. So you create these women groups that are producing sanitaryware, and you get them to supply them to the various schools. And you have an inspector going around to make sure that this group of women, producing this many sanitaries are supplying this many schools. So what happens is that 500 million comes back and goes and takes care of the entire community. So mothers are involved in purchasing sanitary towels for their children and getting educated on it, in distributing it. So for me, the idea that one person probably related to somebody very senior in government, is the one to get this contract. He has no capacity, and he's probably importing it. So you've got massive amounts of money going to one family or two families, instead of going to the community. And when you take it to the community, it's the impact. It's not just empowerment in terms of economics. It's also knowledge for these mothers who now get involved.

Aine 15:56 

In East Africa, people that menstruate are often coming up with their own solutions, sometimes taking matters into their own hands.

Cait 16:03 

In 2010, Sophia Grinvalds and her husband started AFRIPads in a rural town in Uganda. AFRIPads is a company that specializes in local manufacturing and global supply of reusable sanitary pads.

Sophia Grinvalds  16:15 

My husband and I were volunteering in this rural village, and the village had no electricity, no running water. And it was pretty remote for us to even get out there, we would take a taxi from the capital down to the town, then from the town, we'd get on a motorbike taxi, and that motorbike taxi would take us, you know, the 20 kilometers or so out to the village. And so it was pretty remote, there was nowhere to really buy things except from a really small trading center.

Sophia Grinvalds  16:22 

And so when we came to realize that girls were skipping school, and we, you know, realize that cloth pads could actually be a solution, we started that very day. So the first pad we created was made from the blanket that was on our bed. I will never forget it. It was a black fleece blanket. And we basically just cut a strip off the bottom, traced the shape of a pad inspired by Lunapads, and stitched it up right then and there. There were some women working in the community development project. And they were making uniforms for the school students. And so we brought them the cut pieces of the pad. And we just asked them, you know, "Would you mind stitching this together?" 

Sophia Grinvalds  17:18 

And so we asked a woman who was actually menstruating to take that product home and to try it. And the following Thursday, we sat back down with the woman and that woman shared her experience. And for us, that was the moment we realized that we had made something from local materials. We had produced it on the spot in a village in the middle of nowhere without electricity. And we had instant interest from a group of women and an affirmation when that woman came back that the product had helped her manage her period much more comfortably. 

Sophia Grinvalds  17:51 

One morning, I wasn't there. But it was very early in the morning. And the young Ugandan girl who was working with us was sweeping the front step and a schoolgirl came up in uniform and asked if we had any pads for sale. And Hamidah called us and said, "You know, this girl wants to buy some of our pads. How much, and how many should I give her?" And so we gave her a set of three and sent her off to school. And she came back about a week later with a bunch of friends. And they appeared on the doorstep the same thing: in the morning on the way to school. And they were in the middle of their primary learning exams, which is the end of their primary school. And you have to pass these exams in order to proceed to secondary school. And these girls had come because they realized from the first girls' experience that this might be a way to help them stay in school during that week for those few weeks of exams. 

Sophia Grinvalds  18:36 

And that moment for us was a really affirming one, because it made us realize that we could make something in the village that could provide a really practical solution for these girls. So when we started, we started AFRIPads in this village outside of a town in southwestern Uganda, pretty close to the border of Tanzania. And we started there out of out of chance because it's where we were volunteering. But slowly, as we started to grow, we were committed to creating jobs for local women. And so we felt that that was a way of empowering the community where we were working. And so, as we started and our team started to grow, we realized that it was going to be core to our mission. We wanted to prove that you could create meaningful employment for women, that you could pull them into the formal sector and that you can make a world-class product. Even in a village with no electricity.

Aine 19:27 

Hundreds of women are employed by AFRIPads, giving them the opportunity to earn an income where they otherwise wouldn't be able to. We interviewed Irene, an inspiring lady who also happens to be one of AFRIPads' very first employees.

Irene Nakayima  19:42 

I've worked with AFRIPads since 2010. My role has changed over the past two years from being a quality checker of five employees, to a supervisor of around 50 temporaries, and now to general production manager of 105 employees. I'm so proud about the impacts AFRIPads has made to my life as a person, because at the time I joined AFRIPads, I was not working. I'm so proud about the empowerment it gives to me and the employees because most of the staff they employ did not go to school. I contribute taxes to the government, which is pay-as-you-earn, I'm saving for myself, I and my husband, our life, I've saved so much, plus the life of our children, because they are in good schools, we can afford paying their school fees, we have electricity now our home, we are able to build the house. And all of that happened, because after working with AFRIPads, before we were renting, so now we have a house with electricity with running water, we're able to save and buy a car, my children are going to very good schools. So it's AFRIPads that is helping me save and be able to help my family. So I'm so happy. And every time I wake up to come to work, I feel so proud about the impact AFRIPads is making on me, and other people in the community, and employees in general. So AFRIPads has changed the lives of people, as a community, not only employees. Before we did not have electricity. And we got electricity in 2016, that was AFRIPads struggling and fighting and doing all their best to make sure we get electricity. Yeah, women working contributes to the development of the economy of any area. Because I said all our benefits we get from here, we pay taxes. If we're not working with the government, we even have had a chance of us paying taxes. That is already a good one to the economy of the country, because we have portions that we are paying as employees, as women working, we are helping the economy reduce poverty, because we are working and we are earning a living.

Cait 22:09 

As AFRIPads began to grow, Sophia needed electricity to power their electric sewing machines. Although it seems like a simple task bringing electricity to her company, there wasn't any electricity in the town at all. Sophia petitioned the government to bring electricity to the town and therefore company, and they got it.

Sophia Grinvalds  22:30 

The girls who work with us earn an income and that income then goes home and empowers them, which is their families. They spend their money locally, they send their kids to the local schools, they buy their produce in the local village trading centers, they commission a local carpenter to make them a bed. So what you start to see is this trickle-down of you know, economic development that starts happening. And that all starts with just each incremental employee that joins the company adds to that trickle-down effect and electricity has come to the village and that's something that has been transformative. Development can only go so far when you don't have basic things like electricity. And so you start to see a rise in the number of shops, diversification of industry that's happening. And so the village is really transforming. So for us deciding to put our factory in this village, it's truly a mission-driven choice.

Cait 23:21 

AFRIPads is an incredible company that's run by very strong women. They are making a huge change not only in the lives of their employees, but in their community as well. I think it's absolutely incredible that they brought electricity to their town, it was part of solving their own problem of not having electric sewing machines. But it solved a ton of problems in their town as well. People didn't have cold water until they got electricity because they didn't have refrigeration systems. So it was really cool because it could, it created an opportunity for women to sell cold water. They were growing their economy by doing something as simple but also as difficult as bringing electricity to the town.

Aine 24:10 

I think the future of menstrual products is completely reusable. When I first heard about the DivaCup a few years back, people were very skeptical about it. It was new and people didn't know what to think. But now I see the younger generation: everybody's using reusables. People are a lot more aware of the environment and what they can do to impact climate change. So the future is reusables. I think the attitudes towards it are changing. People are not just going to just accept what has gone before. People are really going to push for change. And I think five years down the line, we will look back and think, "I can't believe we use tampons and pads, and I can't believe we put that much waste in the landfills." I honestly think it's going to be something we look back and say, "I can't believe we did that." In this episode, we've talked about the importance of menstrual products and our health and why it's vital for people to have access to clean and safe menstrual products. We also learned that giving people access to products can increase their wellbeing both physically and mentally.

Cait 25:08 

In our next episode, we're discussing the lingering stigma around periods. Why is it still a taboo? And where did it all begin? Also, a big thanks to our podcasting team for producing this. This episode was edited by Brittany Nguyen, Alison Osborne and Stephanie Andrews.

Aine 25:33 

Pandora's Box is also an award-winning feature-length documentary. To find out where to watch the film, you can visit pandorasboxthefilm.com