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Crawdad pre Descript===Kenny: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Paper Chaser's book Club. I am Kenny, your host, and today I have the prestigious Odile. Saso. Great grandma, Great grandma. I have the loving mom the adventurous Ariana . How's everyone doing today? I'm gonna start with Nani and Nani.How are you today? Nannie: Oh, I beasts fine. Thank, you'll Kenny: be fine. Okay. I beasts fine. I'll take that. Mom, how are you? Valerie: I'll introduce you. The greatest son God could ever bless me with. I'm doing amazing because I'm surrounded by the people I love the most in the world. Missing a Nannie: couple of them. Don't ask your mother anything about you Kenny: guys.I, I asked her about her and she Valerie: talked about me, but when you ask about me, it's always about you because that's what my Nannie: life, where does she start on the other one now, , Valerie: I'm honored to be here feeling very blessed, healthy, happy, and ready. Ready to dive in. I've been very excited to discuss this with n and both of you because this is a multi-generational book club and this is [00:01:00] awesome.So I'm ready. Kenny: Okay. Oh, Nani, maybe you wanna help Nani put the headphones. Yeah, there you go. So close. Have her put the bar on Nannie: top of it. Okay. No, I'm fine. No. Nani the Valerie: bar goes on top Nannie: of the head, honey. Oh wait, you're doing messing up my hair.Kenny: I'm doing good today. Happy I woke up and get another shot at this thing. Ari, how are you doing? I'm good. Happy to be here. I wanted to start our book review by introducing the author.I found out she actually lived the life she wrote about. Delia Owens grew up roaming barefoot in the South Georgia woods and spent then her 20 years studying lines and elephants in Africa, where she was one of two people on an area the size of Ireland.Completely by herself. Remote, isolated. Who is she with? She was by herself in her twenties to forties. Nannie: By herself Means she was with a no, Valerie: because you said one of two people, so I didn't know if it was Kenny: probably another researcher yet. Sheshe was by herself and I likes the [00:02:00] clown. Me. I don't know what I did wrong. So she realized studying nature, how isolation can impact someone and that is the basis for this whole book. This book found me at a good time because I'm in Texas.I recently moved on my own for the first time and I started to feel a little isolated. When I first, knew we were gonna read a an imaginary book. I, that was gonna be a hard read, but it was really good one because it related, but also the author weaves in this scientific perspective the whole time about how nature and humanity are related.Okay. And yeah, I'd say after reading it makes me want to go to Africa even more. Did this book find you at a good time? Nannie: It was a fabulous book. I could not put it down it, and like I said and those, at that time I was still receiving the sometimes and it was, and the book, the new books and I said, I want to see where the CRA dads think.Cro, that is a, it is a mud crawfish . You knew that's what it's, [00:03:00] and but then it was, I figure it'd be south, Louisiana or Alabama of Georgia here is all the way on the South Carolina by the ocean. So I didn't have know that they had that many swamps there, to be honest with you. But it was an excellent book. Kenny: I wanted to start this book clubbecause I wanted away,To connect with Nani on something more than just like the news. And I was like, all right I want, I wanted to have an intellectual conversation with Nani.I asked Nani, I said, all right, Nannie. I'll let you choose the first book. What book are we gonna do? When she said, what did the Crada sing? I also gave her a look and I laughed. And I quickly realized when I then Googled it, that it was recently a movie too on Netflix.So it seemed like it was Nannie: actually really popular book. Was that good that they made a movie out of it? It was a bestseller right away. And I didn't know they had actually, you know what, A crawl addict, you know the mud things You'll see in the south, the, those little chi mud chimneys that are in the backyards and such.This is a or the, this is what? [00:04:00] That's a crow ad. Kenny: Oh, do you mean do you mean like holes in mud? Nannie: No, they, no, they chew it, they make little balls or something and then they, because they, Louisiana it's marsh all over. You don't have to go very far to find water. Even where I lived.That's where, so it's Valerie: important to point out that you grew up. In Nannie: Louisiana. Yeah, but in the mid Louisiana. I didn't grow up in the south or the north. I grew, in aor west of Baton Rouge is where I live in Arville. Yeah. But like I said, they make little chimney. You go out in the, especially when it's rain and the water, you'll see those little bitty mud chimneys in the yards.Kenny: So you've seen craw adss before? Nannie: I ate 'em You did too, probably. Is a crad ad Valerie: the same thing as crawfish? Yeah, it is Nannie: a cra ad is a crawfish. It is. It is a crawfish. Did you know that Ari? But there's some of that are mud. Those we don't eat. You eat the ones that everybody back. Interesting. A lot of people [00:05:00] back home have ponds and they grow their coral fish there.Okay. But I did go, Anthony and I did go craw fishing last time we went to Louisiana. I had never gone and so Patrick took Anthony and I and then the, this big thing there, I mean it was half and it was on the shore, right? And Patrick says, get it. Get it. And this one, , they are so fast, they move backwards with their tail.Oh. And he said, ladies' know that, catch it. And that thing had big . So you didn't catch it. Did Anthony catch one? Went back in the water, but we fished after that. But that particular one we had it on shore, but they wanna go back in the water and they go back, they flip their tails somehow, or rather than first thing, they're gone, they're back in the water.That I did not know that. Back home people have craw. The ponds where they grow, they have the crawfish, [00:06:00] they're seasonal. , know, and so forth. They raise that round sometimes. Some of 'em have fish, but usually it's a crawfish because they're big, they're little medium lobsters or something.It tastes about the same thing as a lobster. Okay. About the Kenny: same. Nannie: But Valerie: so did Anthony ever catch one? Oh, sure. . Nannie: That's all. But yeah. Cause he was in with me in Louisiana and Patrick took it and then it's on that levy you way up there and then you go way down there into where the swampy areas are. And I said, Patrick, you're going to drive down there.We have to stay in the car. I walked back up, I would not get in the car. I'm looking at this, at the levee and the path the, it says the trail. No, not a trail. It's a path. You know what, everybody goes up and down the same place but the, I said, you want me to get in the car and you're going to [00:07:00] go up there on an angle,I walked up. You are? That's scary. I walked up , they laughed at me. They couldn't believe it, but I did. And then we have to go down again. after that. Cause you know what a levy is? They are high. That's to prevent floods and all that stuff. But that's that's know water retention and all. Okay. And then on one side you have people own the land and it's all posted, that you get caught fishing in there without permission.You a heavy fine or jail. A jail. You go jail for that. This is what people live on. This is their living. But it's quite different up there. Quite different. What a great experience. And Kenny: Nani, when did you move from Louisiana to Chicago? . Nannie: Oh, I was 20 years old. I've been 19, actually. Kenny: 19. So a couple Nannie: [00:08:00] years ago.61 years ago. Oh yeah. I've been here a lot. 71 years ago. I don't know. Louisiana. 70 years ago. I really don't. If I go on a map, then I'll, I can see. But otherwise I don't know where they're at. We got lost, poppy and I got, we were. Going home. We got lost. Oh, first thing I know. I said, Pete, I have no idea. And it's at night. Oh, I have no, I, all I could see was that there's this highway on either side.There's water and there's trees. And the stuff. I said, babe, I have no idea. Finally, we f got someplace where we saw a little grocery store was still open. Oh, okay. And also when my mom died. That's right. And anyhow, and they told us how to get out of there. We were way up north. Instead of going this way, we went that way.Oh. But like I said, you don't want to get lost in [00:09:00] Louisiana at night. You don't know. There's highways and highways and that's it. And there's no people. Yeah, that's, there's scary. There's Kenny: nothing there. I don't even know what I would do. Yeah. Imagine getting lost without your phone today.That's the thing I've had that happen once and I did the same exact thing Nonnie did. I just stopped at a gas station and asked for directions and they're like, oh, follow this street on this street. And that's the issues. I don't read, I don't know streets, he's oh, go north or west sir, I don't have a compass, yeah. Yeah. Nannie: Yeah. Especially at night when you get lost out there and there's probably no light anywhere. Instead of being coming lights with their lights seven years there, probably not. They probably had no straight lights. Course lot. You're out in the country, there's no lights. Ooh, that's scary.Valerie: I remember just coming home from Champaign when you were in school still, and there's like a big stretch where there are no street lights. And even though it's, highway. It's Kenny: still scary. That's right. Yeah. Cause Champaign Illinois, that is, that's in the countryside of three hours out. So yeah, you, we did get a little taste of that.It is true. It's like, all right, we get [00:10:00] stuck here, we're middle of nowhere. Nannie: Thank God those people were still opened up at night and like I said, so we got down, and of course when they found out we were from Illinois, they were more than happy to.To tell us, you go so, so many miles this way that you're gonna come to. And they told us how to get out of there, but we had traveled way out of our way. Cause even my dad says, what happened? And I told him where we wound up. He says, what were you doing all the way up there? Kenny: Just a curious, do you remember what car you were driving when all that happened? What car you had? Nannie: Buick was say that we always had Buick, the red always had Valerie: Buick. I didn't the red one, the Regal or no, Nannie: I remember he had a silver one.The special I think at that time limited. Valerie: You had a Las Nannie: saber, a silver saber became a las, the special became a Las Saber. Yeah, I remember . Kenny: I want to return to my question of where this book is finding you in life. I know I asked Nannie, she told us how she found it. I want to [00:11:00] go to Ari because I mentioned that part of the reason I did this book club is.Connecting with Nani, but I had that idea, that seed. But you're the one that kind of lightning bolted or kickstarted my energy to actually do it and give me the excitement. You called me and was like, oh, by the way, I'm reading three or four books. Yeah. Which surprised me cuz you went from it seemed like you just went from like zero to a hundred.I hadn't read a book since like eighth grade. And then you've started going nuts. So let me ask you, are you still reading multiple books today? Nannie: You reading Ari: Ari? Yeah, I actually, I paused reading those three books to do the CRA book. Oh, I'm so happy you guys that. So I haven't Nannie: finished those. Oh good.I'm glad to hear that. that's enjoyable and you do get, Kenny: You learn. Yeah. You better yourself. Nannie: Because I love to read. I used to read bad books. My, my father would found out true confessions. And Kenny: that sounds scandalous, true confessions. What do we confessing? Ruth Nannie: and I would hide in the halo to read pg and pgWe'd go in the barn in the [00:12:00] ha off and we'd hide our books there. So my father couldn't find, said no. My mother knew it, but , she never turned the, she explains a lot. We used to hide up there to read. That's in a barn. . Yes. There was no libraries when I was young. There was no libraries.Kenny: Library. The new barn. Yeah, that's fair. No. iPhone, Nannie: they had 'em. But in the larger cities, not in the small towns. Okay. As we Kenny: were saying. Yeah. So I'm just so Ari, so what made you wanna start reading all those books? Let me start reading again. Ari: I honestly, I saw an ad for a Kindle and I didn't even have a book in mind I wanted to read, but I was like, this looks so nice.And I just, I needed something to do. I'm always on the road and me and Matthew travel a lot, so like on the planes, on vacation, on the beach, I just wanted something to do rather than scroll on my phone, cuz I'm not the type of person to sit on my phone. So I was just looking for a new hobby really. Valerie: Okay.What was the first book that you did download to your Kindle? Ari: Psychology of money and I'm still Nannie: reading that direction. , did I [00:13:00] recommend you that one? Ari: Yeah. And to answer your question a little bit more, this book, the Craw Ed book, was a bit refreshing because what I'm reading right now is a lot about like bettering for my future and mental health.And this was just, I didn't relate to this book very much and that was refreshing to have a different perspective of something else, not so Kenny: serious. Okay. So you didn't relate to it in the fact that like it's a whole new perspective, like a life you've never lived or you didn't relate into it, like you just didn't find it interesting.Like the Ari: main character, I didn't relate to her life necessarily. . And that was nice to get a different perspective of somebody else's problems and just, yeah, like a fiction book. It was nice. Kenny: Okay. Mom, what about you? Where did this book find you? I know I of tagged you in, gave you this idea, but reading the book, I know.I don't think you've read a book in a while. I think, and by the way, I'm in the same boat. This was the first book that I've read front to co you know, back to back like this. I think I did one last Nannie: year, but your mother doesn't have time to read. Kenny: So how did you find the time to read Mom?How did you find the book? Tell me a little bit about Yeah, your experience doing that. Valerie: What you were saying. I haven't, I don't even know the last time I wrote a book, [00:14:00] couldn't even tell you. Besides opening like the Bible to read, probably reading the Bible to, to you guys or children's books when you guys were younger or trying to, take different pieces from Catholic religion books.That's probably all I've read in, in the last 15, 20 years. 15, 20 years. Literally. I have not sat down to read a book since then. So, Nani was the one who, when she read this book, Because Nani reads two to three books a week at minimum. Kenny: I just returned her books. It was like three bags of books.Yeah. You need like two hands to pick it up. Did you read all those books, by the way? Nani's side note, the one you read all those books? No, Nannie: not all of 'em. Okay. My, some of 'em not my authors. Okay. Kenny: She's was like, I have authors that I heavy duty. It was, there was paper weight in those books. Yeah. Yeah. Valerie: I found it a very easy read.It was very enjoyable. I think it actually exceeded my expectations because I'm always running and pulled in so many. Places in different directions.To just focus on myself alone, that's not something I do [00:15:00] very often. So I actually enjoyed delving into that, and I found myself not only looking forward to reading the book each night, but I even brought it on the plane to go to Texas and I finished it even sooner than I thought I was going to.Okay. So I, the last night I was like, okay, I'll just read 20 to 30 pages a night. And the, I couldn't put it down either when it was coming towards the end. I just, I probably read the last 80 pages and one night and stayed up. Eyes were like bloodshot, they were burning. I was tired, but I couldn't put it down.Kenny: It does get crazy at the end. And we'll jump into that a little bit, but I do find it interesting that you found that reading time as. Personal time that it seems like was refreshing and you haven't had in a while. Yes. So I like the place that reading has had so I want to jump into the book. I want to give a quick summary of the book and then we'll jump into it and I'll start us with the question. So in general, where the crowding by Delia Owens. It's about a young woman named Kaya.Who's left to raise by herself in the marsh of North Carolina, and [00:16:00] her family abandons her at a young age.So the story takes place in the 1960s, and what's interesting about this book is it's split into two timelines. So it opens with sheriff's investigating the death of the small town famous quarterback named Chase Andrews. . With loose morals. With loose morals. , let's not overlook that.That is a scandalous that isn't. And so immediately Kaya becomes the prime suspect. And the other timeline of the book is starting with Kaya as as a kid, as a child, and you find out that Kaya's assigned the prime suspect because the two became romantically involved. When. Kaya's first true love Tate left for college.I thought that the marsh would be a meaningful place to start that can serve as a canvas upon which we can discuss other things. What was interesting is that Nani knew what a marsh was. She looks like she actually grew up in not in the marsh, but you knew what the marsh was, Nannie: yeah. Of course they're all over.I've never been actually in a marsh, but I know they're off. You know [00:17:00] that there's, cause there's none where I was from where I lived, but they're further south and maybe southeast and the west, but towards where Liz and them live new Orleans, they're, Kenny: The marsh wasn't too far. So I didn't know what a marsh was before reading.The oh was Nannie: four hours away, at least from where I lived. Okay. Kenny: The marsh was four hours. So 90 knew four hours away to the marsh. Nannie: Yeah. But my father and them used to go fishing in those marshes. They used to go hunt. See, they had a hunt club in the marshes. They had just so many people that belonged to this club.You could not go, you didn't there go in there and start hunting. They had their legal right to shoot you if you went in there and started with the deer season and all of that. They actually, it actually happened that some people who were killed, they were Vietnamese or one of those foreign countries.They actually what? In the people that a blind is where they, the people go to hot [00:18:00] for the deer, andal, the deer season. They vi I think there were Vietnamese or someplace out in the Asian country. They actually went in somebody's blind. You don't do that. Man, that's they shot 'em. They wouldn't come down.So they shot 'em and they were legal to do that. Wow. So they, Kenny: so you said that was your grandfather who was in the hunt club? Nannie: Yeah, but not in that particular one, I've been going for so long.I'm not sure exactly when deer season starts. Poppy, when deer hunting. My dad took him hunting when we were after we were married, and he shot a deer. Only thing is he shot a female and you don't kill female deers, . Even though he saw it he got the kill. But one of pop, he wounded it. One of Poppy's friends went and fin and finished it.But he, and actually, but legally, he could claim that deer. , but because it was Poppy's son-in-law, [00:19:00] he gave it to him. He gave him, so he street crack. And so the gave the, there's an initiation ritual. When you first deer, they take the stomach, empty it out. Most of the times they rinse it.they did for my, for poppy. And then they put it on. They put blood from the deer on your face. And then they put that, the deer, the stomach over your head. Do you have a picture of that for Poppy? That was pop my father's gra son-in-law from up north. So they were , very lenient with him.Like dad said, he says, so Poppy put the Valerie: stomach Nannie: over his head. I don't poppy. What? No. What the dunno what of the other guys did. I don't know if they did that. I know they put some of the blood on his face and that's all. But usually it's much worse for the. People back home. Yeah. Wow. But it was Poppy.It was Pete's son-in-law. So he got away with just a little bit of blood on his face, but he got the heart. [00:20:00] You bring the first deer, you get the heart, and he would bring it to your wife, . He said, what do you want me to do with that? He brought you over? Oh, yeah. Hard. Oh yeah. That's a, this is what they do for the first deer that you kill.Oh, interesting. And like I said, it's Kenny: a big club. What did you do with it? Did you guys cook it, boil it? You just throw it out? I gave it to Nannie: my mother. And what'd your mother do with what to do? Kenny: I don't know what to do. You gave Nannie: it, say, what'd your mom do with it? Cook it. I have no, I don't remember to be honest with you.No, I do not remember. But I know my dad took my husband's deer hunting with. So that was nice. He liked peach. Valerie: Everyone will Poppy. Poppy is Kenny: the best there is a part in the book that stood out to me where Kaya is fishing with her dad and she's fishing and she gets the fish and they're gonna kill it, but she like looks in its.And she doesn't like it. She has a hard time killing it. I know recently, I know Ari, you weren't there, but when mom and Hannah came to [00:21:00] Texas, you went to the rodeo and I remember Hannah was like, she gased when they were like lassoing. Yeah. When they were lassoing the bull. Cause they pulled it from both ends and it stretched out the bull.And that was the most gruesome thing we saw on the rodeo. But everyone was like, yeah, it to me that everything else felt okay. That felt like a little bit further in terms of, inhumane. But I thought it was interesting that Kaya there was another point too, where she's cooking food and she's I think I'm gonna cook muscles cuz muscles don't have eyes to look at me when I'm cooking it.Versus the fish. And so it just interesting because she's super in tune with nature, but she has this empathy for the food that she's eating. . I raised that to pose the question. Do you feel bad at all today? Like Nani, do you think that the hunting was like, would you still hunt today? Do you think there's anything wrong with hunting with Nannie: killing animals like that?Yeah. Cause it was food to eat. It was not hunting just to have a trophy on the wall. , it was food. Definitely. So for survival, I don't think I could have done anything to get to, to get the shoot a deer, [00:22:00] those little Bambi eyes. Oh, you. How they have those cute little eyes, little Bambi eyes.It's under unbelievable, like I said, but Kenny: no. Okay. It was food. Yeah. Mom, what about you? Even today, eating, burgers, anything like that? Do you ever think about where Nannie: it comes from? , where it comes from? Valerie: I. Love meat. I am a carnivore . And I don't think that it affects me in a way that I would ever not eat meat because it is for survival.Now I know you can live off plants and vegetables and I love that as well, but being raised eating meat sure. It's something that I don't have a guilt for. I believe that it is for purpose of Nannie: eating, created them, was for human consumption and to use, to tame and to utilize the otherwise What was of sense of animals.So horses, the [00:23:00] people farmers have horses, people, all different kinds of activities. But this is why God gave them to us, not just to look at, no, it's to utilize them. Kenny: I think there's something there. So I saw Ari raise an eyebrow when Nani said the purpose of them is to serve us as humans.Ari, I want to hear your perspective. Do you share the same view? Do you see it any differently? Ari: I don't see it that way. I've actually looked into alternatives to like meat, protein, cuz now that I work out a lot, I have to eat a lot of protein. And I do think about it a lot. If I could be a vegetarian, I would, but that is so hard and I've looked into plant protein, it's just not the same.You don't see the same results like you feel weaker, not eating meat. So I feel like it's there for a reason. We are supposed to eat meat. , but like the thought of it makes me sick. I wish there was an alternative, but I feel like it has to be done. Nannie: I don't care that much for meat myself, Ari. I used to love it, but now, like I said, I just as soon have a meatless meal.Yeah. Ari: I c I see food [00:24:00] more as a tool than like a indulging, like I eat the protein because I'm trying to get Kenny: strong. I love that. I love that line that you put in terms of a tool versus indulgence. I feel the same wayuntil we find a better way. Maybe it's lab grown meats. Those are on the peripheral. I don't know if they're gonna be promising or not, but if we find a better way I'm all here for it, I don't necessarily want to kill an animal. I do think there's something there that, yeah, but Nannie: this is why they were put on earth most for human con, for people to have food, to for food, fish, same thing like back home.They had. I used to call them chalks. I think I, it's a black bird and there's a season for birds and I remember my mom and them, my mom cooking birds, cleaning them. But in season you don't kill the otherwise, either summer or spring. I think it's a fall [00:25:00] thing. I'm not sure. I don't remember cuz we didn't have that much, that many of 'em.Only once in a great while, Kenny: the bird. So you would shoot the birds. . Nannie: Yeah. Yeah. The man would go hunting, . What kind of, but with little pallets. Yeah. That you didn't shoot them with the bullet or nothing, That was not very often, but I know my brothers used to Kenny: go.Your brother? How many brothers did you have? Four. Four brothers. And so now I'm just curious how did you prepare? How did you eat the bird? Was it in. , was it with rice grits? What do you Oh, Nannie: honey rice. Everybody back on the southeast rice with everything. . I'm surprised they don't eat it with, for breakfast.They probably find somewhere to do it. , but throw an egg in there. No. They will cook like on us too. Like you would meat stew. There's not very much meat. There's only the breast because like I said, those little skinny legs, there's nothing on there. It's just the breast.Valerie: Did you enjoy it? Did you like it? Nannie: I must have. I must have been very little when we did. , cuz [00:26:00] I, I remember even in high school, we didn't eat birds anymore.Kenny: So going back to the marsh, and I know we took, I know we took a big left turn, but I did not know what the marsh was. Mom, did you know what the marsh, did you know what a marsh was? Yes. You knew Aria. Did you know what a marsh was? Ari: I'm not even sure if I know like the perfect definition or a picture of it.I'm picturing a swamp. Valerie: That's my idea. Kenny: And so what's interesting is that this book is actually split up into two sections. Part one is called The Marsh. Part two is called the swamp. So they distinguish.And so the very first sentence of the book is, the very first words is marsh is not swamp. No marsh is a space of light where it grass grows in water and water flows into the sky. Slow moving creeks wander carrying the orb of the sun with them to the sea. And long-legged birds lift with unexpected grace as thought, not built to fly against the roar of a [00:27:00] thousand snow.And so two things I want to point out here. First, that first sentence is very representative of the book and how descriptive they get, like the orb of the sun, to me I could just see that reflecting off the water, the subtle, it was a marsh. Is that a swamp? It was a marsh, not a swamp. And but there were Nannie: swaps around there further north.There were, there Kenny: are swamps. There were, and they do mention that a little bit. . So then that's what's interesting to me is, see, I didn't read, I didn't see the movie before reading this book, and I didn't know what a marsh was either, so I didn't really know what to expect. And just an interesting reflection I had is I first started reading this on the Kindle and then I decided to switch the paper back about 25% of the way through.And this whole time when you read a book, you have like you imagine the storyline, you kind of have in your head like what you would picture it would look like. And one thing that I noticed is that when I did get the book, there's this super bright, like orange, like very strong saturated Hughes.And it totally changed how I [00:28:00] pictured the marsh. After this. The only reflection I remember is I remember being a lot more like black and white and dull. And maybe the sun's not out. But here, the sun's strong. I Look at that orange. and so Nani, I know you.Nannie: I've never been that far south.Now Ruth has, but I never was she, because they used to go in the, my mom and dad and them used to go their vacation place was. Past New Orleans, quite a bit past New Orleans is where they used to go it's out in the Gulf where they used to, because they used to go crabbing in the, just before the sunset.The crab would come towards the shore and they'd all go crabbing and then, This is, they would eat crabs and you know how fun. But I never got to go, oh. When I was home, the la the one time I told dad, I said, let's go. I said, I'll pay for it [00:29:00] I'll pay for it. He says, mom, can't take the trip no more.And my mother used to, she went, she had her swimsuit out and already on the bed. She laid it out when she heard me say talking about it. And he says, she's too ill. So she, he said, because it was like five, six hours away from where I lived, . This is where we had to be traveling. How did you travel that?Valerie: You had a car? Okay. Kenny: I didn't know the model T. No, I dunno. , Valerie: I didn't know if it Nannie: was horse carriage. I did have a Model T when I was a little girl. My mom used to drive there. Women didn't drive in those days. There is one. It looked, there was no they had the covers that you could put down, but it was open.And my mom used to drive, she was one of the very few women that drove. It's, it was on Unhear and they threw, and they knocked my brother out, my sister out of the car, . But you didn't go there. It would, you could fall out of the car. Oh, no, [00:30:00] you didn't fall. They threw her out. Oh, they threw her out.Why did they go out? It's all open, huh? Are you see the old cars? Valerie: No. Why? Why? What was the reason Nannie: they were goofing all around . What do you think ? They were being there was Felix, Peter, and Dan, I don't, het wasn't there. Cuz my sister and my sister, she had the four kids because my mom used to drive, she'd go visit her parents, she'd go visit, but women didn't drive in those days. My mother did. Kenny: So why did your mom drive? Why did she get to, but most other women Nannie: didn't? Because she wanted to and my father thought her house, she wanted to, and he taught her how. , Kenny: I see a shout out to your father for not, being on this high horse or anything back in the day if it's, Nannie: yeah. But that was so long ago. Yeah. You know how long ago that was? My god. I was born in 32. That was in the beginning of the 19th century . . That's a long time ago. . Nani, Kenny: So you drove in the Model T [00:31:00] before? Not me, my mom. But you were in it, you were in the No. Oh. Nannie: My father had a Ford.No, it was not a Model T though. I know. He had, what are those black boxy cars that. There was no in the wintertime they had to drain the water because it would freeze and there was no antifreeze. So you had to, and then in the morning you had to put water back in the radiator. But I was low.So by the time I grew up, that was all gone, Kenny: okay. So by the time you were grown up and stuff like that, you, I was over here. You were always in cars. Did you ever, so did you ever ride in like a horseback carriage? ? Nannie: No, . Valerie: Okay. Oh, wait a second. You said Poppy used to take a horse drawn carriage with his family to church every Sunday.Nannie: Yes, I'm sure. Kenny: Okay. Oh yeah. So Poppy's family was in the horse Nannie: carriage. Yeah. And my mother's family also. Okay. I knew we'd get around too. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. There. Okay.Like I said, myself, no. [00:32:00] Yeah. I remember was my brothers all on the car. There was a thing in the, and you'd pick up that hood. and there was a, some kind of a gadget there. And if they, my oldest brother was seeing this girl that Charlie's mom and them actually, anyhow, what they did, they went, there was a thing you could turn off the gas.So anyhow, there was enough in there to get him just so far down the street and the car stopped . So they were always jokester brothers, what are you gonna do Kenny: so we've always had pranksters in the, in the DNA it sounds like, right? Yeah. Line steam prank here. Prank, yeah. Nannie: Now we don't, probably from one of those model T fours or something, I don't know. So I'm just Valerie: thinking, I have to say, so n moved, From her family of 10 children and everything she knew. At your age, since you're 19, she moved when she met Poppy across, [00:33:00] yeah.The state You guys met at 19? Yeah, Nannie: I was 19 when I came to live North. Moved to Valerie: Chicago. Just Ari: poppy, huh? With just Nannie: him? , just poppy and I. At your Kenny: age, and why did you decide to move to Chicago Nannie: with Poppy? That's where he was from, Kenny: huh? Oh, you met him in the Army Nannie: Poppy. was, He was born in Kenny: Chicago.Okay, so you went back with him to go Nannie: back to where? Cause I married him and of course I moved with my husband. Kenny: And why didn't you guys decide to stay in Louisiana where your family's from? I'm sorry. Why didn't you and Poppy decide? Why didn't why didn't you you say, I wanna stay where my family's Nannie: from.His job was waiting for him. Okay. He was already, established. . Anyhow. We moved up north and I remember we had gone someplace and we were walking back to, we, people walked and it was b easy like it is today. Maybe a little stronger. I couldn't breathe. I was losing my breath cause I wasn't [00:34:00] accustomed to breathing this guy in the wind.And Kenny: you didn't have a north face on? No ? Nannie: Not at that time. And like I said, I told, said, Pete, I can't breathe. I can't breathe. And so that was a store. So we went into the store till I gathered a, was okay. Then we finished walking home. But until I got accustomed to, because Illinois is a, it is a breeze.A city, Kenny: right? Yes, it is. How far was the walk from the store to your home? Nannie: Oh. There's a store right downstairs. Kenny: Oh, okay. Okay. The C store City. Oh, Valerie: okay. I have a quick question. Does anyone know the real reason they call Chicago? The Wendy City? It's Wendy. No, I, that's what most people Kenny: think. It's because I know Wendy, you and I were, when we Nannie: run on a My Chicago , no.Okay. That gives, that's a clue. That's a Kenny: clue. What I thought is that a good mom? When you and I were on that tour at Northwestern Yeah. On the boat. They said it over the thing. They said it's because of, because the politics are Valerie: because of politicians. [00:35:00] Not full of politics, not full of air.The windy city, they're full of air. Yeah. But it is very breezy. So yeah. Just a little trivia for you. Kenny: Interesting. Naia, another one more quick question. How did you get from Louisiana to Chicago? Did you guys have a car that you drove? Nannie: Of course we had a Buick. The Buick. Kenny: We always had Buicks. Okay.We went to the Buick. yeah, I can only imagine a road trip without Nannie: GPS Jeep. Yeah, your grandfather was a map, was the 20, what? 26? 20? No, he still has maps. He was 26. 20 everywhere. Seven years old when we got married. So like I said, he was an no kid and he had a job. Valerie: And did you have a map and you tell him Pete turn left at Nannie: the Valerie: dirt trail?How did you even know? Take a look. Kenny: The tree, right? I mean I'm sure there's signs probably to Chicago. I can't Nannie: remember the route exactly, but I know we'd go up to Arkansas, a bit of Arkansas, St. Louis, and then a long drive, cuz Chicago, Illinois, you know where you were at for college, that's a 4 56 hour drive, . Valerie: But you [00:36:00] used the map. Were, did you like, read the map and instruct Poppy where to go? Nannie: Not really. He knew. He knew. Okay. Yeah. See, he knew, like I said, he had, he drove his car when he was in the army. Okay. He had a, he had the viewing and Uncle George and Uncle Sam were ruining his car.They were not taking care of it. He was dirty. So it'd be like Hannah Valerie: and using your Nannie: car . So he was literally able to take his car to Camp Po. And that's how I got to meet him. Okay. Because he had a car and they were all coming to Opal Luis because there was, this was a niceties down. And like I said, this is where most, a lot of the GIS came there.Some went to Lake Charles. They went not all over the place from Camp Po was the fort. Now, I don't know if they closed it or not, but there was North and South Polk and the south, it was mostly the tank division. Where Poppy was at was just, the the other one, regular gis, but the other ones were the [00:37:00] people in the tanks.Kenny: what was the event that you went to that where you met Poppy? Was it like bingo night? Was it a dance? What? It was a hop honey, . Bingo. Went to the Nannie: hops, wasn't it a hop afternoon? There was, we had nothing to do. Went with this girl where we used to go dancing all the time. And we are sitting here, poppy and max were sitting like up over there.He came and asked me to dance and that was it. That Thursday he was back in town and that was it. Married him. Married him. I met him the 1st of April. Married him the 1st of October. Same year. Valerie: And 60 plus years later. Kenny: Yeah. See that's what's hard is, I'm currently single and I, I don't go to dances, I don't ask, Hey, do you want to take a dance?I don't know. Nannie: That's what the, what we did, we, there was no bowling alley or nothing over there okay, this is, I'll just dance. People went to the movies, or they went to at least twice a week. Ari: I'm trying to picture the scenery for this and I can't [00:38:00] understand. Is the hop a club or is this like a more innocent thing, like not alcohol involved?Can you be under 21? Nannie: No. How does that all the place was called a moon light in Oh, it sounds like when you first walked in, this is where the bar was. So it was a bar, but in the front, in the back was a big place where they had a live band all the time and dancing. Live band. Did Kenny: you have to be 21? Nannie: I don't know.I just . No, I didn't. There was no bouncer at the bar empty? No, because I was just I was not quite 19 when I married Poppy. . Okay. 10 days before I was 19. Kenny: So cute. So Ari, for comparison, how did you meet Matthew Ari: two and a half years ago working at Taco Bell? At work? Yeah. Valerie: Okay. Like right through the drive-through.And what did I tell the story? So what did he ask you? Ari: I always have to ask them like, do you want your receipt? And so it was just standard. I was like, do you want your receipt? And he's only if it'll come with like your [00:39:00] number on it. And it caught me off guard at first cuz it's really busy at Taco Bell.And I was like, oh my God, do I want, there's Kenny: like people in the drive-through line. Ari: Yeah. And we're like always super behind and I'm like, do I run and get a pen? What Valerie: do I do right now? . Nannie: Did you get run and get a pen? Did you see him already? Who has a pen? Valerie: I Ari: did it but only for a second. So I had to quickly decide do I just want to give it a chance?And I did. I ran to the back, made everyone wait that was in line. I got a marker, wrote it on the receipt. I wrote it wrong. I had to cross it off and do it again. And I was just like shaking. Nannie: shaking. That's so Kenny: cute. Mom. How did you meet Eddie? Nannie: I Valerie: wasone glorious evening when I was going out with Auntie Lisa, we were going to go dancing and she had wanted us to go to Ruth's Kris to have a nice dinner first. And I really wasn't into having a nice dinner. I just want to go out and have fun and dance. And she's no, you have to go.And so we went and she knew him from going to that to go eat there beforehand. So we [00:40:00] just walked in and he was walking towards the door. We were walking in the door and she introduced us there and Kenny: he was working. So he got your number on the clock? He was working. Valerie: He he was an assistant GM back then, and he ended up sitting down with us and feeding us green apple martinis, which was, I think that.Determined my fate that night, . And we started talking that day and we're pretty much inseparable. Although that night he had asked me the next day was Super Bowl and so he invited me to come back downtown cuz he lived downtown in a high rise at that time. And he was like, I really want you to come and meet all my friends and, we're gonna right across from Ruth Chris, I think Sullivan's, it was Sullivan's we're gonna eat and whatever.And I'm like no, it's the day before my son starts school. So we have a very special day plan. We go to church and go see my nanny and have pasta. We have a very special day planned. So didn't meet him, I turned him down the brother injury because obviously you were coming first. And that was my priority is making [00:41:00] sure we spend that quality time.Kenny: So I started school then what was I start, you were gonna start school on Monday. What? What grade? Valerie: Kindergarten, I think either kindergarten or first. I think first grade. He was first grade, right? You were gonna be, you were right before your sixth, first grade. I Nannie: think it was Kindergarten Valley. I Kenny: think it was kindergarten too.Yeah, Nannie: he was in kindergarten. Valerie: It was kindergarten. . Because then when we moved to Lombard, that's when you were in first grades at Christ the King. So yeah. So you were at St. John Veni getting ready to start school. And we lived here in Northlake, which is where we're filming this Northlake library.So things come full Kenny: circle. Yeah, that is a good point. We didn't say where we're recording this. So we're currently in Northlake, so nannie's house. And Nani, how long have you lived in that house? For in Melrose Park. How long have you lived in Melrose Park? Nannie: For how long we lived here? Yeah. How, when did you move?In 1967 or, I don't remember. I. I know late sixties, it's the same year my mom died and I can't remember when that was either. Okay, Kenny: so late sixties, over 50 years, 55 [00:42:00] in 2023, so that's, yeah, 50, 60 years. I can just say, I flew in from Houston last night. I flew in and I walk into nannie's house and when you start paying attention to the details, you can tell that the house has been established since the late 1960s, whatever.It's cuz there's older. Older because in every, there's just these knickknacks or dolls or statues that I'm looking at nannie's, bowling trophies from the eighties or it's like this, like fun house or this museum that's it's like it's em, it's a time capsule. I walked into a time capsule yesterday and I just noticed so many things I've never noticed before.So we were gonna record. Conversation originally at the house, but there was a lot going on. We decided to, get a meeting room, but we're only 10 minutes down the street at North Lake Library. And from here I can literally see the school I went to preschool in and the church that I was baptized in Nannie: and made your confirmation.I was baptized, Ari was Valerie: baptized there. Your [00:43:00] dad and I were married Kenny: there. Yeah, I could see out the window. Yeah. Where we were baptized, where we went to preschool on the way here. N and I are driving and she's you and I used to drive down the street all the time and I saw the first house that we moved into.38 Bernice. 38 Bernice. So we passed this. So we really are, you know Nannie: where it hasn't changed? It is the same. Valerie: No, it's a little bit different. It from when I saw it. They ch they painted it. Kenny: Yeah. I thought they painted it. It was Nannie: a little different color. They didn't do nothing else to it. People on that side of that side, they all went, oh, , they stayed Kenny: that house.Yeah. Maybe you go back to Tree Classic. Valerie: I Nannie: love they cut the tree down. That was in the backyard. Okay. That we, they will, that was a nasty tree. Valerie: That's that favorite. It's my favorite tree. Did you like the Kenny: little willow? My favorite tree? What was that one? A good one. Valerie: I don't remember there being a weeping willow in the back.I think the people next door had a weeping willow. I don't think it, it wasn't us. We didn't have a tree in our yard. Nannie: Oh yes you did. . Valerie: I don't remember. You have a Nannie: great, believePoppy and I used to pick up Booby after [00:44:00] school a lot. Kenny: gothe car. Remember the little Nannie: store? We always stop that. To buy you a Kenny: toy.I doNannie: yeah. Every time I picked him up, we stop there and get him a toy or we'd go and get a hotdog on Grand Avenue. Remember the over there at the Delicious fries there? Right across the street from Oracle. Uncle Sammy used Kenny: to live. Oh. Yeah, I do remember it. Valerie: I don't think that's a, I don't think they have that there anymore, do they?Right next to White Castle. No. Uhuh. That's all gone. It was a hotdog place right next to White Castle on Manheim. Kenny: Grand Hotdogs maybe, Valerie: or, yeah, right next to Manheim and Grande white Castle. Kenny: I know that's all gone Good times. So yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna jump back into the book a little bit. . So I think we digested guys feted from that book.We did. We took a huge, it's like when you got lost on the road trip and now we're going back. In the beginning of the book right away. Kaya's family leaves her the mom leaves first, and then at some point the dad's gone for a while. And so there's a point where it's just Kaya and her older brother and sister.So Kaya is the youngest sibling, and there's a period where the family's [00:45:00] gone. And so you find out. The, her older siblings end up leaving very quickly too. She's left very quickly in the book. She's by herself. But in the time where her siblings are still there and the parents are gone, there's a moment where the older sister is cooking dinner and it's for the first time where, because the parents aren't there, they cook the dinner and everyone just takes it to their room and eats.And I just thought it was interesting that, without the mom there, they didn't have the tradition of all sitting down at the family table. Now, when I think about. Us growing up at nannie's, we'd always eat at nannie's, kitchen table. Us growing up, I feel like we've, generally had a pretty good habit of eating dinner together.And my question is I'll start with Ari. Ari, 10 years down the line, 15 years, however long you have a family, are you gonna make it a point to have a tradition to eat at the family table, or are you going to use eating as a tool? That's not really how we connect. Ari: I've definitely grown up on like connecting with people over food.I feel like that's the best way for me to connect, whether I'm cooking or just eating the meal. That's the best way. [00:46:00] But I also don't know if I'm gonna have a family myself. I haven't even thought about that. Quite honestly. I currently don't want kids, so I'm not too concerned on Kenny: that aspect. is 15 years down the line, so I know it's there, but I, sorry.Nannie: If you feel that you could not take care of them and give them love, don't have any because you were brought up with nothing. But love oh my God, poppy. Oh, another little Valerie. That's all he treated you like another little Valerie. Yeah. Ari: I feel like if I did have a family, I a hundred percent, we'd be just like our family is now.I'd be cooking dinner every single night. I love to cook. The kids would sit at the table, we'd all eat together. That's like the only time you truly have to sit and just talk with each other. Cuz you can't be on your phone, you're eating. You have to just conversate with the people you're with. That's a very important thing to me.Valerie: I love that. I Kenny: love that too.Ari: Even now, I'm rarely home like all this and that. I'm always working. The only time I get to be home and like me and mom every single day we have a [00:47:00] meal together. . That's the one point when I come home and give mom my full attention is when we cook and eat Valerie: together.That's true. I love, I live Nannie: for it. You picked up the right by par. , Kenny: singular. And not his opinion there. . You know what is good? We are lucky in the fact that you only need one loving parent. Nani raises a really good point. I like that you said Ari.If you don't think you can show the child the same love that you were shown, don't have it. If I relating this to the book, I'm actually skipping to page 340. Our main character, Kaya, she is the prime suspect of the murder.And at the end of the book, one of the best scenes in me is the murder trial at the end of the book. Kaya Gets lucky. She has a really good lawyer and. So her defense team when she's talking to the jury, ladies and gentlemen, did we exclude Ms. Clark because she was different or was she different because we excluded her?Valerie: I love that. I actually, one of my things I wrote down, and Kenny: that just makes me think about who we think someone is. Is it because of how we're treating Nannie: them? It was a male Kenny: [00:48:00] lawyer. It was a male lawyer. And so he was talking about Kai said, did you know, you said town. He's asking the town, the jury, did we exclude her because she was different.Or is she different because we Nannie: excluded her? Yeah. But okay. Before that lawyer took her over, she she was mute. She was not talking, she wasn't an, she was just sitting there. She she always was very quiet. She didn't speak to people to begin with, and she was, whatever they were doing, she would just keep quiet about it until this guy said, wait.He was there, but he was not her lawyer in the beginning. All of a sudden he says, enough, she did not commit this crime. Just because she had the red hat. This saw it in her house, and this is how they accused her because they were going around to talking to people and they looked through the window and they saw her hat hanging in the kitchen.And they have, they had a thread from a red hat, that same wall [00:49:00] on the. On a nail where he fell on that Kenny: towel Nannie: and that's connected her to the crime. Yeah, that's how they connected her and because she was so different, that was also the biggest reason I think they connect. They accused her because she was so different.She never tried to, and she tried to run away when they were going to arrest her Also. It was she was scared. She didn't want to get in Kenny: prison. She's, Nannie: she never, she was around people. He tried to warn her. He did a lot. He liked her. Oh. Because he knew she was all by herself. Kenny: She was jumping. You're talking about jumping the gas station. Nannie: Her dad was there once in a while. He came, okay, I'm going here.And like I said, but he come back and this is how she learned how to fish and learn her way around the, in the marshes. . Cause she asked her father to go with him it's a girl, but he brought her, and this is how she found her way around the marsh and so forth. , if not for that.And then he left and he never came back. And, [00:50:00] that was the end of his, then she was all alone. But it was a, did you read the book Ari? Yeah. . Ari: Oh, Kenny: I been . Why was there do No, Nannie: I didn't know if she was just that she had heard about it. . No she didn't. Ari: I actually read it. I read it.I feel like even more than the threads that connected her, he was missing the shell necklace, which was an a huge part of it. , which I can't remember exactly how they brought it up Kenny: in trial. Yeah. So remember it found out, so Chase Andrew, the Stark quarterback, his mom knew that he was messing around with Kaya the Swamp girl.And he, she knew that he always wore the shell necklace. So she knew and he never took it off. He never took it off. But the night of the murder that Shell necklace was no longer there. And that was Valerie: for me. I loved that. She's you weren't taking that from me and taking that back. That's Ari: so weird that he wore it that whole time.I found that weird Valerie: telling. But what was the que original question you asked? Kenny: I skipped to the end in the court where he asked, is she different? Cause we excluded her [00:51:00] because she's different. Only because Nani brought up how.If you're gonna have a kid, you need to raise them with love. You can't treat them as different. And I've just thought a lot recently, I'm having diversity discussions.And one key focus of diversity discussion, this is a hot topic for me, is what privileges do you have and people and typically in diversity discuss. When you talk about what privileges you have, the first things people think about is skin color, cuz that's the most popular one that's talked about.The next most popular is socioeconomic meaning. Did you grow up in a rich family or a poor family? What I brought up and something I feel strongly about, we are talking about these things and there's this whole model of all the different privileges you can have. And I'm like, to me, my biggest priv privilege isn't on this model.My biggest privilege is having a loving parent and having love as a child because there are theories that how resilient someone is growing up is due to how much it is directly correlated to how much love they got as a child. And so I, when I [00:52:00] tell people about myself, I say I am privileged. I had that one loving parent.And so it wasn't really a question, it was more a reflection Nannie: and a pop hop that adored Kenny: you. . And so mom, I see you're tearing up. What's going through your head thinking about, hearing Valerie: that? Because if that, if there's one legacy that I leave leaving the world, what means the most to me Are my children.Like just giving the love the most I could ever give to you. Like I raised you with our beautiful Catholic faith, which was a gift given to me by Nannie and Poppy. Poppy mostly. And you too, Nannie cuz you both lived it, you didn't talk about it. You lived your Catholic faith and you sh you passed that down to me.And that's very strong meaning to me. . I've taught all four of you throughout the years about our faith, about love and respect and kindness. One of the biggest things I've always said is we are all God's children. I don't look at anyone any differently. We're all God's children and so we're all miracles.And that's the way I've always viewed [00:53:00] the world around me and I tried to pass that down to you and to me that all originates from love. And that love was originated because of you. And I'm so grateful Nannie: because I know what I often wondered, okay? You had the two, two sets of grandparents. Now, if Vicky's mother had raised you, do you think you'd be this type of a birthday nannie?I am Valerie: the luckiest person on earth and the most blessed person, cuz I had you and Poppy raised me so much. No one could give me more love and direction and guidance Nannie: in our faith. Ari: Why don't he takes it in my mission. You wanna know a really interesting fact it was teen pregnancy, not graduating high school, committing crimes, going to jail.It's like the number one factor in, like the biggest similarity these kids have that are doing these things is not having. Structure. Two Nannie: parents, you're right, they were not loved at home. And then when I look Ari: back at it and I'm like, what friends have been good to me and what friends have been getting into drugs, what friends [00:54:00] are going to jail?Literally every single one has no parental structure. Like they either have divorced parents or one parent. One parent works. It's always like that. Nannie: Thank you. Yeah. Ari, you're correct. This is why when I see a parent that's my makeup uh, spirit. I don't know that it's indifferent.I don't need to dab anyone children. That child will not have a, unless you're very strong and has someone else supporting them. . But you had loving parents though. Vicky adored you. She, it just, it Ari: wouldn't, without that parental structure, mom would not have turned out the way Valerie: she did. I am who I am because Nannie: of you and puppy.Vicky did not have what it took Valerie: you were the one who celebrated her 16th birthday and had a cake for her. Cuz Nannie: her own mom didn't. Yeah, her mother didn't have Valerie: anything, so it wasn't, so Nana has been like the mom and the savior for everyone.That's basically what I wanted to touch on when you said that, that means a lot to me because if I have one thing that I've, I have [00:55:00] learned in my life it's to be loving.And if you know all the education I have and all the experiences I've had, everything that I've tried to share and teach my children, the number one thing is love, respect, love, kindness, compassion, honesty, integrity. That is what's so important. Acceptance, Nannie: tolerance. I don't know.What about your kids, the way they came home? . I know Kenny: you tried. Now you know. I can hear you. Valerie: And the only thing that matters to me is the Nannie: hard val, but sometimes it takes, sometimes . Valerie: I just, the only, my legacy is Nannie: she's gonna get Marlin. I know. This is my, I don't like your kids. . . Valerie: So the only thing that matters to me is that you love one another.And if I can, if I pass that down, that is, yeah. That then I've won. I've Kenny: won. I think you have one she was like, oh my brother's 10 years younger. He's maybe when a couple years, we'll get closer once he matures.And I had this thought, I'm [00:56:00] like, man, if it's not happening now, it didn't hit a certain age. Like we were always, had some kind of connection of we're in this together type of thing. So I think you, you won at least relative to everyone else I've talked to. Valerie: I think a lot of it comes to, besides being raised by Nannie and Poppy, I'm an only child.So to me, every relationship is so important to me. I value every relationship, every person that God blesses to me to put into my life for whatever reason, whether it's a positive or a negative one, I try to learn from it, put myself in their shoes, see where they're coming from, why they are the way they are, whether it's positive or negative, learn from it.Grow from it and pass it down to you guys. Every relationship's so important to me. And that's why as kids, like you guys never fought as kids. Rarely. Like I hear that too. All of my friends, people that I know, whether it be acquaintances, friends from schools, any kind of gymnastics clubs, any high school, anything, the four of you are [00:57:00] so strong in your relationships.Ari: I've never seen any siblings closer than we are. Like, yeah, no. Yeah. Every family I've been involved with, I go to their house and I'm like, oh my God. They don't talk to their kids and the kids aren't talking to each other. Like they're Nannie: not talking to each other anymore. Like Ari: they have whole days go by where they don't communicate with each other.And I'm like, oh my God. Say hi to your brother, say hi to your mom. It's so odd to me cuz we're all so close. Kenny: Yeah. Cuz I see it like, it makes life more fun. Like we, I don't know. It's it's just a benefit. I don't know why you would cut that off necessarily, Valerie: but, and I just love we, I'll bring such different.Aspects it's so nice with social media because you're all the way in Houston. Every morning I start my day I used to send to our group chat that we have the four kids.And I, with something inspirational, I love you guys, I miss you, whatever. But now every morning I take the time and I send you the weather report. And I've been doing this for what, six years ever since you went to college? I, every morning you get your own text with the weather report and [00:58:00] a message, and then I do it for Ari and then I do it for Hannah and do it for Hailey.Because who like, I, I just try to put myself in everyone else's shoes. What would I wish? Nannie: See Patty never had that. They never were a close family. No, never. No. A lot of people. No. I remember Val, when you first got married, we were shopping for Christmas and you had bought some real nice stuff for his grandmother.And he told you, bring it back. She says she's not gonna want that. Kenny: I could see you like I'm giving it to her probably. Nannie: She was such a nice lady. Kenny: This is skipping more towards the middle of the book where Kaya is in this relationship with chase, and she starts to realize that Chase has start a quarterback, is seeing other women.He promised her all these things and she's just starting to realize all these things he promised are not coming true. She notices that she's falling in the same trap that her mom did, because they say that her mom and her dad, her pod did the same thing where she took the mo of the marsh and said, we're gonna live this whole life.But he ended up [00:59:00] getting into alcohol and it all fell through and she realized that she was falling into the same generational Nannie: trap. Yeah. But the mother came from a very wealthy family. In New Orleans. And he took her away from him. He took her away from them. And the father-in-law gave him a job there.That's right. He didn't like it because it was not high enough in the echelon, in the business of the made shoes. But she came from a wealthy family. That's Kenny: right. And another interesting point here is he had a job at the factory, but because he wasn't instantly put to manager, he had to start from the bottom., didn't like the hard work. And so you find out that the. Ended up instead, he gave up and he falls into alcohol and gambling rather than putting in the hard work and living this hard life that would have got them the money. And there's an interesting quote in the book that says, the paw having to drink every day and gamble.was the hardest life he would've ever had to live. In his mind, he took the easier [01:00:00] path, but really he was living the harder path cuz he didn't live up to that full potential. The reason I bring this up is because I go back to where Kaya noticed that she's falling into a generational trap. I start to think about our generational traps.So almost flipping instead of the good news, let's look at some of the maybe the bad generational things that we wanna stop. One example I heard recently from I went to someone I look up to, this creative director called Cole Bennett. He had a show in Chicago. He started Lyrical Lemonade and he asked the person he was with on stage.why has your family been unable to build generational wealth? That question stuck out to me. I've never thought of that question before. I met him after and said I really appreciate that question. That's actually a really that's worth sitting on.Why has our family been able to build generational wealth? And so the question Ari, I wanna pose to you is, whether it's that question or just more generally even zooming out, stepping, taking a step. Are there any generational or rather family habits that you think this is something that I'd want to improve on and maybe take us one [01:01:00] step further and not fall in that same generational trap?Ari: I feel like the lack of internet when you guys were young, scr you over. I feel like we have the upper leg just because we can research in a second. How do I invest in crypto? I can watch YouTube video and go invest in crypto in the next hour. It's so much easier. We have access to information that you never could have dreamed of at my age.Back when you were young, I guess not having a stable job or not having a great salary, like you had nothing to build off of, but like here we have bigger opportunities to invest our money and make something from nothing. You guys had to just have something, have a good job, be a doctor.You couldn't just invest the same way that we can nowadays. Kenny: If I were to take this question and rather than looking at the generational wealth piece, but ask about, okay, maybe what are some habits that I want to break in the family, also related to why I haven't been able to build generational wealth.I think about the role alcohol has, even in this book, pop becomes an Alcoholic. . And it stunted the family's growth in terms of their reaching their full potential. [01:02:00] And if I were to ask myself if I wanna reach my full potential, I think a relationship with alcohol, I don't think that contributes to my full potential.I think about the trade off I have when I drink alcohol haven't been drinking alcohol. I think it's something I've had to trade off.It's been difficult because it's the easy thing to do. It's the easy way to connect with friends. But I do think it's holding me back. And here's the thing, my friends don't know the relationship that alcohol has had in our family. I think, alcohol has, a darker side to our family where it's led to some people in our families, their death.We have alcoholism in our family. When I drink, I can see, I can, oh my gosh, I realize how you can be an alcoholic. I can see how this can be addicting. I feel like for me, more than anyone else I've met, for the most part I'm drawn to it a lot more. I get a lot more enjoyment out of it, so I see, I feel like I'm prone into being an alcoholic,if they were zero alcohol, maybe we'd have more generational wealth that could be something that's held as back. And so that's something [01:03:00] that I have under a microscope today and something that ideally I'd like to break, but it's not an easy journey because it's so socially accepted.It's almost like a negative habit that is encouraged right now in society. Nannie: Having a couple of beers is fine, but you have to know when to stop it. When to stop. That is before you get that. When you get that buzz, you are already drunk coming. You gonna have another beer. So how do you do alcohol, wine. Kenny: I don't let me ask you this. Do you think alcohol is a net positive or a net negative to our family or society? Nannie: I don't, alcohol can be either one. It all depends on the individual, on how you use it, not on the family. That depends on the individual.Now, poppy, one glass of wine and he'd be giggling, . And then he'd go to bed, Valerie: he would giggle for 10 minutes and go to bed once or twice a year. That's Nannie: it. And my father-in-law never drank at, for, I remember one Thanksgiving, a Christmas, Easter or something. We A little glass like [01:04:00] this, of of, I think it was vodka they had given him.Sure. He downed it and we're looking, oh my God. He drank it straight through . It's says like a glass of water. He went out though, like I said, he went to sleep. But my grandfather, my father-in-law never didn't drink. My mother-in-law didn't drink. I think I was, I, this is, when did I start drinking? I never drank. I had kids before. I think I, Pete. Oh, for every, I had Michael. I had, the Blas after he got me drunk. Kenny: What's the Blas? Valerie: I think it's postpartum depression. Currently. Knowing the postpartum Nannie: thing. I believe the Blas, because I was out in the basement.I was Agnes and we were renting, her name was Agnes. She heard me in the basement. I kept washing and rinsing the same clothes and washing. So she came down, she heard me, and so she came down and finished it. About the book doing, Ari: let's finish the book. Just the fact of buying luxury things cuz it makes you [01:05:00] look like you're more well off. How unimportant that is and how badly it can screw you over for years. Personal experience. Kenny: That's a great point. I remember I was FaceTiming you, we were on the phone the other day looking at each other and you saw my closet. And I, and you called me out for how many pairs of shoes I had, and I was so embarrassed I had 15 pairs of shoes. Nani couldn't believe it. I totally got Valerie: called out. I, that's an exorbitant amount.I think that's Nannie: pretty. How many pairs of shoes do you have, Ari? Ari: Probably around the same, Kenny: around 15. Yeah. The girls Nannie: too. I'm trying to think cuz Yeah. But see, but when I was growing up, you were fortunate to have a 13, 14 that didn't have a hole in the soul. They had Valerie: one pair, they were like, pair shoes. Ari: I don't really buy expensive shoes though. It's 10 bucks Nannie: slides.But then everybody was this, I know some of her had nicer homes and everything else, but no one paid attention to, so you have this, and it wasn't that way. Everybody had more than what I had. A lot more. Valerie: But you always said that you [01:06:00] never saw like rich or poor Nannie: nobody made a difference that you had this.And her father was a big rice farmer. They were well off. Again, a big family. But like I said, there was no classic class distinction. The class might have been there, but nobody made a di a distinction. Kenny: In the book, Kaya has to go to the grocery store to buy food every once in a while. Do you remember the prices when you were to go to the grocery store? How much a dozen eggs were? Oh, Nannie: honey, I didn't go to the store. My mom and my dad did. I don't know. We had hens to begin with, so they didn't Valerie: go to the store to buy. Nannie: He, and the country.So we had a, my mother had chicken. She didn't buy meat, chicken from, she didn't buy pork from a store She didn't buy because, in November they had and that is when the neighbors would come. And today they went to your, And they [01:07:00] tortured the pigs, cut up the meat and made all this stuff, and you got some meat and everybody did.Now, maybe next week they went to your house and they helped there and they all worked the farm. They all people, the neighbors all worked together and so you had fresh meat. Valerie: Any questions you want to ask Ari, Nannie: I have one. What?You read the book, what was your general uptake on the whole. On her whole life. Ari: I feel like that's a big Nannie: question. , it's a very serious one. Ari: I think she made the best out of one of the most miserable situations a human being can be put in. There's nothing worse than being lonely as a human.We're made to connect and she's been put up with nothing but loneliness and still somehow managed to find her passion and do great in her, like writing her books and just doing what she loves. She made the best of just a horrible life. Nannie: Yeah. And one thing she had going for her, she was very intelligent.[01:08:00] Yeah, she was. That is what saved her, I think is her intelligence. Ari: And although she was so lonely, she didn't just give into the first person who would give her attention. She was very strong and no one Nannie: talked that No, she was afraid of people actually Ari: exa, which was a good thing. It was a good defense mechanism against the people who she shouldn't have Kenny: trusted.Yeah. What's interesting is she was intelligent in her own way, which is also similar to how I feel about you because she didn't go to school. Yeah, she was intelligent, but. People laughed at her. She's like, all right, I'm not gonna do this. Like the teacher's asking me questions, I should be asking you questions.And she never went to school, but she learned to read in her own way, learned the marsh. And she was a published Nannie: author. One of the most, what her boyfriend taught her how to read, how to write everything is she didn't even know how to count. Kenny: And so I do love how she, she picked it up. She was intellectually engaged.She had intelligence. Yes, in her own way. It was through the traditional route of school. And that does remind me a little bit of you, Ari, since you're not taking that traditional route, You find out, worked out for them [01:09:00] just as well. They find their own way. Ari: Like she never felt forced or did anything that she didn't want to do. She did everything she wanted to do. She lived her life the way she wanted and I really respect that. Cause that's exactly how I want Valerie: to do it. I was gonna say, I, you, I can, when you said you didn't relate to her at all, but I always question that when you said that to her, because I do see a relation between you and her.Ari: Now that we talk about it, I'm seeing it more, but I didn't see that when I first read it. So I'm Valerie: glad home like you. Very smart. She Nannie: was a very shy little girl. People did, would talk to her and do things about her, but yet she never retaliated. She was always her.It was always my life. I have to live it. This is what I was dealt with and she did all her life. Except like I said, then she admit this guy, finally they fell in love and everything. So in the end, she was a very happy young woman. She was very happy. I just didn't like the ending Kenny: though.While we're all here, we go to the [01:10:00] ending of the book because the ending is so exciting. Okay. When reading the book the entire time, I had no idea who murder. Chase Andrew. So let me, who Nannie: did, Valerie: Let, I would like Ari get as much from Ari before she leaves.Who I think did it. Yeah. Kenny: We know who did it. Ari: Yeah. I don't know what I think she did it. Was there any question? Were you considering that she didn't do it? Nannie: I Kenny: don't think she did. No, she did. So I don't know if I think you might have missed So let me say how you find out the big reveal there is a big reveal at the end that she did it.Here's how you know she did it at the end. What's really interesting is the last chapter the book skips to when they're 60 or 70 years old, that when that was really ended, it skips to her end life in the last chapter.And Kaya ends up passing away and Tate is going through the old shack, their old. And he notices one day that under the stove, I believe there was a secret compartment, a trap door. And he opens that trap door and he pulls out a box. [01:11:00] And in that box, he discovers two things. First off, he discovers all of these poems.And by the way, the poems throughout the book are sprinkled Nannie: throughout. Did you read that Kenny: chapter? It's really good. So the poems are sprinkled throughout the book, and he finds out that Kaya was the author of all these poems in the news. She was this famous author, but she was like a ghost author. No one knew it was her.And specifically, he pulls out and reads this one poem and hears the big reveal. The poems called The Firefly. Here's how the poem reads. Luring him was easy as flashing valentine's, but like a lady firefly, they had a secret call to die, a final touch, unfinished. The last step, a trap down, he falls his eyes still holding mine until they see another world.I saw them change. First a question, then an answer, finally an end and love itself passing to whatever it [01:12:00] was before it begin, and you know that is, and so that's Kaya's poem, and that was the big secret poem, locked in the box because. Chase fell through a trap doorand you also find out that there was also the shell Valerie: necklace with the poem. I'm saying that was the, that was the caveat. That was the icing Kenny: on the cape. There was also the shell necklace with the poem that was missing from the murder that Chase wore. Valerie: Remember they never found the shell necklace Kenny: that was in the trial.She also, yeah, he also, see, I'd Nannie: love to read that last time. You have to read it again. You bring that book home again? Yeah. I'll, oh, see, cuz I brought my copy back today. , Kenny: yeah. We'll have to forget it for you. Or give, we'll get this money. But you find out that and not and so what he Nannie: does, but he deserved it.He was a master. He Kenny: And the book is worth the read because earlier in the book there's this one observation where she's watching, I believe it's grasshoppers dance.And all of a sudden the lady grasshopper eats the male grasshopper's head and kills him and then goes on and she observes that. And then you find out that [01:13:00] she repeated that natural habit and killed her, killed the guy who was all flaunty. Cuz that's what she said is in nature it's always the weakest human. It's always the weakest animals, the weakest males that have to flaunt the most, that have this big dance and have to be so loud, and it's always the ones who are, reserved and collected. Those are the alpha males. They talk about the definition of a man, and I believe it's Kaya's mom who's, who defines the definition of a man. And I don't have the exact definition here. I have do you wanna maybe kick that off? Cause what I'm curious is as to what our definitions of being a quote unquote man is, and by the way, maybe that doesn't even necessarily mean a man.Really quickly before we go to the definition of a man, Ari, mom, did you know that. Kaya was the one who murdered Chase.I had no idea I was shot caught off throughout the book. Ari: No. Yeah. You had no idea. I was thinking it was him. I thought he did it because he loved her. So he killed him. That's Valerie: why you thought it was the whole time. I wondered. Yeah. I thought it might be her, but I thought it could be him defending her because he defended her dead to Ari: her.That's why I [01:14:00] thought it was gonna connect that. And then they'd fall in love. That's what Valerie: I thoughted up. Cause it was his hat and they were trying to make it look like it was her. But it was really his. they, And they tease that. There's Kenny: one point where she sees Tate get pulled away by the ambulance in the police.Police arrested. Really? Her dad Nannie: passed away. Never said who? The. Yeah, but like he deserved it. And because he was a, an abusive person, Kenny: I think. Yeah, he did. He did. He Nannie: abused her. He was abusive, but because he had privileges, this is what he turned out to be, because he was pretty, he was a big football star.Ari: You have the definition? Valerie: Sure. A real man is one who cries without shame. Red poetry with his heart, feels opera in his soul and does what necessary to defend a woman. Kenny: What do we think? Valerie: Someone who's in touch with their emotional intelligence that's not afraid Nannie: to show that a tear running down their cheek or anything.Someone Valerie: who's in, who has emotional intelligence. I think is very important. Somebody who can, somebody who loves [01:15:00] him. I think so. It's so important for everyone, whether you're a man or a woman, you have to love yourself first because if you don't love yourself, there's no way you can love someone else. You just can't because you will continually question the motives of the other person because you have so much going on that's unsettled.If you love yourself and have a strong self-worth, and self-confidence and self-esteem, then you are here from God to just spread love in the world. And I think there are, that is very, to me, it's so obvious. It's such a basic thing. But so many people don't have that. No, Nannie: because their parents never had it.And so they, what, how can they pass it on down to their children when they never had it? Kenny: Ari, what's your, and I agree with everything you said, by the way, Ari, what's your definition of a man? Any? Any additions? Any subtractions? Ari: No. I feel like they say it very well. I feel like it should be common knowledge, but like with the men, I'd guess I've seen in my life a lot of the time, this [01:16:00] isn't normal for a man to be like, but for me, this is like every person should be like,I like this, like the way you should feel deeply, but a lot of people, a lot of real men think the opposite, which I think is so odd. Very sad. This Valerie: is not more well known. I think it's because old school, when I say old school, like back in the day, I'm Nannie: 50 also not too much old school. A lot of 'em are still that way today, Valerie: but Right.Kenny: But that's, but it, so as I was, it stems from tradition. Valerie: It stems from tradition. So I'm 50, so the way I was raised but a lot of men that I see older than me around my age or older, you're raised to not cry and to be strong. And to me, someone who's strong is someone who's not afraid to cry.Someone who's in touch with their emotions and all the. . To me, the most respectful thing for a man or woman should be being able to control your emotions in a calm, loving, peaceful way. And Nannie: that's not always possible. . Valerie: It's not always Nannie: possible. Even [01:17:00] for the most, it's like you want to take So the for closest thing in the whack em.Yeah, Valerie: but I'm, but we were talking about like a true definition of a man. It's, I'm saying a man or a woman. Oh, a man. Nannie: No, because it's so much stronger. Valerie: I don't agree with that. They're so much Kenny: stronger. Let me say, so a, as a man, I think the definition of a man, one, I don't even like that question today because I do say back in the day, men traditionally were bigger.And the reason I think there is this, like men weren't like that is because maybe it did fit them well. Maybe they did need to hide emotion. If I'm thinking a hundred years ago when they were hunting, you were, if you're hunting and things like that, you Valerie: had to be, Kenny: weren't makes sense crying as you're killing your today I don't like the question, what's the definition of a man?Because to me now we're all on an equal playing field. We don't need to use this physical brute force. I agree. And so because of that, and I think we're trying to very quickly pivot. To where now it should really the question be, what is the definition of a leader maybe is a better word. I like that. I think that I would hold all women and men to the same standard.[01:18:00] I agree. . I don't know if I have a definition, but I think to me it comes down to being able to put others before yourself. Yes. And or being able to love everyone equally in expressing that love and treating others as you want to be treated.That is that biblical? That's one of the oldest rules. That's golden rule. That's the golden rule. So it's nothing Nannie: new really. My dad had the two bro, two brothers, uncle David and Uncle Damas and my dad. Okay. Valerie: Have to go. Hold Ari: on one second now, because I know this is gonna go on. It's gonna go on for, Valerie: yeah, I have to go.Okay. Kenny: We're gonna let Ari go. We're gonna take a quick break, but can you hold that thought Nannie? Oh sure. Nannie: But I got, I before you go. Thank you Kenny: Ari, so much for joining the very Nannie: first book club. Ari: Thank you for having me. Kenny: We love you, Ari. We love you. I.