0:00

If Batman were to live in a national park, he

0:02

definitely lived at Carl's Bad Caverns. I'm

0:07

Brad and I'm Matt, and we sawed our

0:09

home in Chicago, bought in r V and we live

0:11

on the road full time, just us and our dog

0:13

Finn, and we're visiting our national

0:16

parks. This is park Landia and we're heading

0:18

underground the original bat cave at Carl's

0:20

Bad. Thanks for listening. Batman

0:30

would feel right at home in the enormous pitch

0:32

black chambers of Carl's Bad Cavern in New

0:34

Mexico, just him, a couple hundred

0:36

thousand of his roommates who fly out to eat bugs

0:39

each night. There are so many bats

0:41

here that when they fly out of the caves natural entrance

0:43

each evening at sunset, they swirl around

0:45

in this gigantic tornado shape and they

0:47

look like a dark cloud. It's ominous

0:50

and overwhelming to behold. And like a park

0:52

ranger said that night, it's an iconic

0:54

National park site to see right up there

0:57

with Old Faithful at Yellowstone. Oh

0:59

yeah, I would have here with that sentiment. There

1:01

really is nothing like the bat migration that caused

1:03

by Cavern's for anyone screamish around baths,

1:05

This probably isn't for you, because the

1:08

idea of sitting under a

1:10

cloud of two baths probably would

1:12

give you nightmares. But for anyone else, it's

1:14

really stunning, and just seeing them swarm

1:16

out quietly into the sky for what seems like hours

1:19

is really really incredible. It's

1:21

essentially one giant feeding frenzy. Though. It's like

1:23

a bunch of hungry dinners out of buffet,

1:25

just feasting for hours and hours

1:27

and hours. But instead of eggs, benedict

1:30

or prime rib, it's moths mosquitoes

1:32

on the menu. They fly around for miles

1:35

and up into the sky for several thousand feet

1:37

even to get their food. That's

1:39

a lot of ever for dinner, I'd really just order same.

1:42

I can't imagine, like whenever I'm

1:44

ordering Grabhub and wanting sushi, like if

1:46

I were to travel thirty miles

1:48

and ten thousand feet in the sky. No things.

1:51

The coolest part of the whole batmigration that was

1:54

just how mysterious these animals are. I think, like

1:56

there are so many unanswered questions

1:59

and just mysteries about how

2:02

they act the way they do, why they act

2:04

the way they do, the ranger who's

2:06

leading the back talk when we were there, he was talking about how

2:08

these bats, which are Mexican

2:10

freetailed bats, they only live here

2:12

in Carl's Bad from mid April through about mid

2:15

October, so not much is known

2:17

about their migration and like

2:19

where they stay along the way as they're going back and

2:22

forth to Mexico. Yeah, my guess

2:24

is a motel six or maybe an all nighter. Yeah,

2:26

who knows, there's like a bat airbnb

2:28

or something. I don't know. You know, they are

2:31

apparently quite ugly though, Yeah,

2:34

so don't get too close.

2:37

Yeah. You can't see them up close though, um, since

2:39

they're so small and they're flying so fast. But

2:41

the rangers said, that's the reason why a

2:43

lot of people are afraid of bats is because

2:45

of their like gnarly faces. I mean

2:48

it's okay, though, I know they're beautiful

2:50

on the inside. Yeah, that's what matters. Of

2:53

course, they're these things aren't about to win any

2:55

beauty pageants. But in spite of that,

2:57

they are really incredible animals and you

2:59

have to respect that and just admire it

3:01

because for one thing, in like a single

3:03

night, these bats can eat half their body

3:05

weight and insect which is crazy.

3:08

They're starving. I did name one of them. That's

3:12

sweet. She was so cute. Yeah, the

3:14

whole So, the whole colony each night can

3:16

eat up to three tons of food. That's a

3:19

dizney amount of food to imagine. And

3:22

by night's end, they all kind of returned

3:24

back into the cave by dawn, throwing

3:27

around in that tornado like shape

3:30

formation. Um,

3:32

and then they sleep all day, hang upside down from

3:34

the cave ceiling just chilling. Sounds like

3:36

me, sounds great. Um.

3:39

But the the other thing that the ranger told

3:41

us that I thought was so shocking and kind of hard

3:43

to imagine is these bats

3:45

are so small that up to three

3:48

hundred of them can be squeezed together

3:50

in one square foot of ceiling

3:52

space. That's crazy and also

3:54

kind of horrifying to imagine. I don't want to

3:57

see that. Yeah, you know, there's another amazing

3:59

thing about how these bats helped Carl's Bad Caverns

4:01

get discovered in the first place. Even though

4:03

Native Americans apparently spend time in the cave

4:06

more than a thousand years ago, it wasn't

4:08

fully explored until the late eighteen

4:10

hundreds, when the settlers saw a

4:12

black cloud of smoke rising from the earth. Yeah,

4:15

except surprise, surprise, that black

4:17

cloud was not smoke at all. It was actually

4:20

bats exiting the cave, and

4:22

they did so in such a thick, condensed crowd

4:25

that from a distance it looked like this plume

4:27

of smoke just seemingly rising out of

4:29

the ground. Caves.

4:33

So Jim White is the guy who's credited as

4:35

the cave's main explorer. He discovered

4:38

the cave, he

4:41

explored, went in like a

4:43

brave, curious little man,

4:46

a pioneer. Yeah, yeah, that's one. That's

4:49

another more appropriate term. Um.

4:51

And he he's the one who named a bunch of the ravens

4:53

informations down in Carl's bad caverns like King's

4:56

Palace Room, Green Lake Room, Bottomless

4:59

Pit, I spurg Rock, and Big

5:01

Room. A real creative on that one, Jim. I

5:03

mean it definitely earns the name there, since

5:06

the Big Room is actually gigantic.

5:09

Yeah. Yeah, from what we read that you

5:11

could fit two US Capitol buildings

5:13

inside this room, and that's unbelievable.

5:17

It's the seventh largest cape chamber in the

5:19

world, and it's the one and only

5:21

chamber that you can tour on your own

5:24

it's a long one and a quarter

5:26

mile route around the perimeter of this gigantic

5:29

chamber. I mean it's filmed with enormous

5:31

formations and features like the Lions

5:33

Main and the Hall of Giants.

5:35

I mean, oh, and I can't forget

5:37

the bottomless pit, which isn't actually

5:39

bottomless, but it definitely looks ominous.

5:42

It definitely does. The Big Room

5:44

has lights along the trail, which is pretty nice

5:46

because it's well paved the whole way, making

5:49

it easy to see where you're going and see

5:51

all the unique formations um along

5:53

the route. Yeah. Fortunately for those lights.

5:55

Otherwise we'd be stumbling into the bottomless pit

5:58

and that wouldn't end well.

6:00

I feel like you're gonna die by falling

6:03

off a cliff or down a pit. I'm always

6:06

I'm always so close to falling to my death. Um.

6:10

So let's talk about how we got to the Big Room,

6:12

because I thought that was probably

6:14

my favorite aspect of Carl's Wide Caverns.

6:17

Yeah. We got here by way of the natural

6:20

Entrance, which starts at the Amphitheater where

6:22

the bats migrate, so before

6:24

the evening, before sunset, where the when the bats

6:27

come out. This natural entrance

6:29

is open for people to make

6:31

their way down into the cave the old fashioned

6:33

way by zig zagging

6:35

down This long paved

6:37

pathway gets pretty

6:39

steep. It takes a little while to

6:42

complete. Um,

6:44

it's fairly strenuous, but

6:46

not as much when you're going down because it's mostly

6:49

just gravity doing most of the work. It's

6:51

just really cool though, because you're immersing yourself

6:53

the way that Jim White and the initial explorers

6:56

did, just surrounded by

6:58

sudden darkness and leaving

7:00

the natural light behind. Yeah. I mean,

7:02

as you make your way down the cave, you'll enter like two

7:04

various, like sprawling rooms. I mean, the whole

7:07

experience feels more like a movie,

7:10

and it seems to be wild to be just

7:12

real, it's very wild, it's very surreal,

7:15

and I feel like every corner you

7:17

turn along this Natural Entrance

7:19

trail, it just bursts open to these

7:22

extravagant new rooms with amazing

7:24

views and features. It's just breathtaking

7:27

really. Um. Speaking of breathtaking

7:29

features, I want to talk about one of my favorite formations

7:32

along the Natural Entrance route, which is

7:34

it's called Whale's Mouth, in this giant

7:36

rock face that kind of looks like this huge

7:39

whale rising out of the water,

7:42

maybe like a blue whale or something huge. And

7:45

I think the thing that I connect with so much

7:47

here is that when I was a kid, I

7:49

actually made a connection with

7:51

a whale. And my parents,

7:53

Yeah, I know, buckle

7:57

up because this gets weird. My parents

7:59

let me do to those adopt a

8:01

whale programs, which I don't know

8:03

if they still exist. I'm assuming they do. And

8:06

I never got to flip through like this catalog

8:09

or something and like adopt a whale. And I don't

8:11

even know what was involved with said I was like a little kid. My

8:13

parents probably handled logistics. But

8:16

anyway, I adopted a humpback whale

8:18

named Midnight and I

8:20

loved Midnight. She was like this mostly

8:22

black humpback whale. I think

8:25

she lived probably in the Atlantic somewhere.

8:27

I don't know um, But anyway,

8:32

I would always like tell

8:34

people like strangers

8:36

are like, well, I don't know. People would ask naturally,

8:38

like, oh, do you have any pets, and I would say like,

8:40

yeah, we have our dog, Nikki, and I have a

8:42

whale named Midnight. And people

8:46

have probably thought I was so crazy,

8:48

and they would look at my parents probably like what.

8:52

But I loved Midnight. And Midnight.

8:54

Honestly, it's probably still alive today.

8:56

Whales love a route going time, so I think technically

8:59

I still have a whale.

9:01

We have a whale in our family. Um,

9:04

I had no clue, and I love this, but you

9:07

are literally justifiably insane.

9:09

I love whales, and I love whale

9:12

shaped cave formations. What can I say? Oh

9:15

man, we'll put those next to my cat's

9:17

mystic and Majestic, Mystic, Majestic

9:20

and Midnight and Midnight. I love you.

9:23

Anyway, back to the natural entrance trail

9:26

at the end, once you're done kind of making

9:28

your full descend into the cave, you've gone

9:30

about eight hundred feet down, which

9:32

is, as a sign points out, that's kind

9:35

of the equivalent of hiking down the Empire

9:37

State Blelding. It's quite a track. Yeah,

9:39

it's a lot easier to go down, I mean

9:42

that's what a lot of people do, you know, the normal

9:44

people do. Yeah, but it's much tougher

9:46

to go up. And we decided

9:48

we want to do it both ways. I mean, it

9:51

was really funny to watch the people's

9:54

reaction. Um, as we're coming

9:56

back up and like, are you are you really

9:58

going up? People can't leave

10:00

it before reacting like we

10:02

were crazy, Like I didn't see any other people

10:05

going up with us at the

10:07

time. There was still a bunch of people coming down when we were

10:09

making the truck out, And this must have

10:11

been like six or seven different

10:13

people who made comments being like, oh, are you

10:15

picking out. We're like, yeah, it's

10:17

not that insane. Yeah, And they're like, do

10:20

you know there's an elevator at the bottom, and we're like, yes,

10:22

yes, we heard about the elevator.

10:25

I mean, like it was tough going up, but like I

10:27

could handle it, and I'm a little bit more out of shape

10:29

for hiking, um in regards to

10:31

this time that I used to be, but

10:34

it's definitely possible, um, if you're

10:36

in decent shape. Yeah. I thought you did

10:38

great too, And we made a good time. We like it

10:42

seemed to me like we went up

10:44

the trail faster than we went down, probably because

10:47

we were stopping to take photos a lot on the way down.

10:49

On the way out, we're kind of familiar

10:51

enough that we're like, Okay, we don't need to stop with the whale's

10:53

mouth again. Yeah, but it was definitely amazing

10:56

to like jump up there and just like just

10:58

do it. You know, it's just like a little fa good. It's

11:00

only the empire or state building, you know. Yeah,

11:02

it's only like going up and down the first twice

11:05

a day. Yeah, it was good. But I

11:07

want to talk also about kind of the

11:09

full body experience involved,

11:11

because it's more than just like feeling your muscles.

11:13

You smell things, you see

11:16

things off obviously along this trail, and

11:18

it's really quite immersive. Yeah,

11:20

I mean, everything kind of just shifts as you walk further

11:23

into the cave. Pretty much as soon as you leave

11:25

the amphitheater, things start to smell

11:27

weird, mostly from the

11:29

bat. Yeah, Dodo, or is

11:32

you like to sing that guano? I

11:34

think the first time I heard the term back guana was probably

11:36

in an Aspin Toura movie. And

11:40

do you remember Jim Carrey.

11:42

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was from an Aspan tour movie

11:44

and it stuck with me and now I'm very familiar.

11:46

Good job, Good job, Jim, good

11:49

job. Hey, there's a lot of Jim. Oh

11:51

yeah, right. Things obviously

11:54

get increasingly dark, and the temperature levels

11:56

like drop out around

11:58

the mid fifties. It's actually quite comfortable

12:01

if you're wearing like a light jacket or a sweater right

12:03

right, unless you're going up then you take off those layers.

12:05

But we're working our way down the cave now. Yeah,

12:08

it's actually also really comfortable if you're wearing a

12:10

batsuit or whatever that spandex

12:12

thing that Robin wears, you know, Yes,

12:15

this is perfect superhero spandex climate.

12:17

Yeah, cuts, especially

12:20

the ones from that like Batman and Robin movie

12:22

where Batman had an explicable nipple

12:25

marks on a suit. Yes,

12:28

that's what you need to be wearing here, oh

12:32

man, Yes, yeah.

12:36

Um, and keeping in this

12:38

like cinematic weird inadvertent

12:41

movie theme. I thought it was so cool

12:43

to learn that the portion of the cave

12:45

that's where they're still kind of a trickle of natural

12:47

light as it's mixed in with the complete

12:49

darkness. This apparently it's called

12:51

the twilight zone, because of course

12:54

it is, and that

12:56

this is like the phase of the cave where things

12:59

are and get really really kind

13:01

of dark and eerie, but in a cool, like

13:04

exciting way that really draws you in further. And

13:06

then things get really dark and the

13:09

only light anymore comes

13:11

off light bulbs that line the walkway

13:13

and illuminate the formations kind of pointing

13:15

things out for you. Very dim,

13:18

very dim the mood, so you do have

13:20

to keep a slow pace so you're not

13:22

stumbling into things. Certain parts

13:24

of the trail are darker than others, but for the most

13:27

part, it's it's fairly straightforward. UM

13:30

One thing to note here. We mentioned photos, but

13:33

this is kind of hard to get

13:35

good photos in the cave, just f y I unless

13:37

you have like a special camera with

13:40

UM specific equipment designed for taking

13:42

photos in the dark. But things don't really

13:44

turn out on smartphones here. So it's

13:47

one of those places where you witness

13:49

it with your own eyes and it's beautiful

13:52

and mesmerizing, but things really

13:54

just don't show up nearly as great in iPhone photos.

13:57

And that's fine too. Yeah, Well,

13:59

you're just gonna have to go and visit and see for yourself.

14:01

I mean, you're gonna miss out on a lot

14:03

of things if you just look at other people's photos.

14:06

Yeah, I know, you have to experience it for yourself,

14:08

and it's fine that you don't document it all on Instagram

14:10

or whatever, but don't put down your phones because

14:13

we're gonna be right back to talk about how many

14:15

times Matt has been at this national

14:17

park. Hi,

14:43

I'm Brad and I'm Matt. You're listening to

14:45

park Landia and today we're talking about Carl's

14:47

Bad Caverns National Park, which

14:49

evidently is one of my favorite

14:51

national parks because I've been here three

14:53

times. Yeah too,

14:56

but three times, making it my most

14:58

visited national park in the country. So, in

15:00

other words, I'm kind of a carls

15:02

By Caverns pro. Not to brag, but

15:05

I'm probably qualified to be a park ranger here at

15:07

this point. To be honest, you would love to be a park ranger

15:09

at Carl's Bad Caverns. I mean it's just

15:12

kind of like your spirit park, you mean,

15:14

like dark, ominous and smelling like bad

15:16

droppings. Yes, um

15:18

well definitely. Uh well

15:21

that's for sure, thank you. I

15:24

first visited the park with my brother Brian and

15:27

my friends Diana and Elena. This was

15:29

back in kind

15:31

of when I was getting into at

15:34

this like nature themed vacation

15:37

thing with friends and family, and

15:39

we had this like week long trip planned out.

15:41

You can call it what it is, it's an obsession. It's an

15:43

obsession. So we

15:46

planned to end our trip with a couple of days

15:48

and Carl's Bad and we were staying and

15:52

this shared cosy little cabin at

15:54

a nearby k o A campground.

15:57

Um. And while we're here, we had this full

15:59

day our first day and Carls by

16:01

the caverns. We booked this ranger

16:04

guided tour. We actually had two tours because

16:06

we really wanted to maximize their time here. Those

16:09

cave tours, they're so great there.

16:11

Yeah, you have to do some cave tours while you here,

16:13

although it just a heads up, they do

16:15

fill up pretty quickly. So as

16:18

far in advanced as you can make them online,

16:21

the better, um, because you don't

16:23

want to miss out on these. But I

16:25

know if you do it to last minute then you're

16:27

kind of out of luck. But they're still the big room.

16:29

You can tour that in your own um. But

16:31

what we did here on our first day was

16:34

the left hand Tunnel tour first and

16:37

the crazy the awesome thing about that

16:39

is it's a lantern lit tour.

16:41

That is all the visitors holding their own lanterns

16:43

as they kind of follow the ranger

16:46

into the cavern. Did you get one of those

16:48

cool hats you know, like we saw that you could

16:50

buy their No, No, that's

16:52

a bummer, but you could

16:54

have bought one. I could have, but I don't. I

16:57

don't know, I would mess up my hair look

17:00

at for the bats, I guess. So this

17:03

left hand tunnel tour at last about two hours,

17:06

all lit by candle lights, so

17:08

you're kind of experiencing this cave,

17:12

like I said, the old fashioned way, like this is what the

17:14

original pioneers

17:16

were seeing. It was all like by flickering

17:18

candle light. And we

17:21

all gathered congregated in the visitors

17:23

center on the surface, and then all took the elevator down

17:25

to the tour meeting area by the there's

17:27

like this underground cafe. And

17:30

our arranger guide was was really great.

17:32

She was good at getting everyone to socialize

17:34

and mingle and do some icebreakers.

17:38

And she started things off by having everyone

17:40

gather in this circle and introduced

17:42

themselves. And for some reason

17:44

I was like immediately to her left, while

17:47

my brother and friends were like the

17:49

opposite side of the work. I don't know why. I didn't

17:51

did my own thing, but awkwardly

17:54

by myself corner. Yeah, And

17:56

so I was the first one to go and introduce

17:59

myself, and she asked me to introduce

18:01

myself where I'm from, and then as a nice baker

18:03

say what your favorite movie is, So

18:05

I'm like, okay, sure, So

18:08

I went, my name is Matt, I'm from

18:10

Chicago, and I guess I would

18:12

probably say Signs of the Lambs. And

18:14

then this was immediately met with varied

18:17

reactions of shock and laughter from the crowd,

18:19

like watch out for that guy.

18:21

Everyone was like, I don't know if

18:23

it was like fake rattled

18:26

or everyone legitimately thought I would

18:28

beat them while we're on the tour or something. But I

18:30

guess the theme of this episode is just verifying

18:32

Matt's insane This yeah,

18:35

maybe that's true, especially compared to like

18:37

all the other movie answers were so sweet

18:40

and faun like Finding Nemo and Star Wars,

18:42

and I'm like, sounds to the Lambs, So

18:45

this wasn't. It was off to a nice start, and

18:49

the tour itself was actually super fun,

18:51

very informative and I really

18:53

need to see it, Like I said, baits in

18:55

candle light and like nothing else really

18:57

primitive and also

19:00

oh weirdly made

19:02

me really hungry because our

19:04

park ranger kept comparing all the cave

19:06

formations to like different foods. She would

19:08

go, this is cave popcorn, doesn't it look

19:11

like popcorn, and like these are soda straws,

19:14

and this is cave bacon. She would like, do all these

19:16

comparisons, and granted

19:18

she was accurate. It actually didn't look like popcorn

19:21

and bacon and soda straws and whatnot.

19:24

And she even made like this obscure

19:27

comparison at one point to something one

19:29

of the cave formations, she said looked like one of those

19:31

like marshmallowy chocolate um

19:34

snowballs that you would get in like gas

19:36

stations, convenience stores or whatever. I loved

19:39

those. We really shouldn't have skiped lunch to

19:41

day. I'm hungry for cave bacon flavored popcorn

19:43

now I want, Yeah, I want one of those snowballs

19:45

like yesterday. They're so good.

19:48

And but the hilarious thing too, she

19:51

yeah, so she mentioned the snowballs and she was like,

19:53

oh, but I wish I could eat them. I'm just I'm

19:55

allergic to nuts or something, and I'm like, what,

19:58

coconut is not a nut? But anyway,

20:02

her heart was in the right place and she was making me famished.

20:05

And then my favorite moment

20:07

of this tour was when she gathered everybody

20:09

around it in a big circle again. This time

20:11

I was actually in my appropriate space

20:13

next to my friends, and

20:16

we ran around one by one kind of putting

20:18

our candles out, so increasingly

20:21

the chamber weary and got darker

20:23

and darker until the last

20:25

person put their candle up and it

20:27

was complete pitch darkness.

20:30

And the point of this was to show to

20:33

show us what the cave is like in its natural pure

20:36

state, and that's just complete nothingness,

20:39

blackness, like you can't see your own hand

20:41

in front of your face. It's

20:44

really crazy, like creepy. But also

20:46

when you're with people and stuff, you're you're

20:48

fine, You're not like a band in there in the dark cave.

20:51

Um. But of course I again um

20:55

kind of embarrassed myself because

20:57

as we're like turning out of the candles. She also said,

21:00

I want everyone to be completely quiet and

21:03

just you know, appreciate the stillness

21:05

and darkness of the cave. But for

21:08

some reason, my body has like a whistle reaction

21:10

to do the opposite thing. And as soon

21:12

as the last scandal went out, I started like

21:15

loudly giggling uncontrollably,

21:18

and I was making noise,

21:21

and I'm sure if everyone could hear me trying

21:23

to start fell after and then my brother started

21:25

giggling and it was shumulating,

21:27

and I'm sure the ranger knew it was. I'm

21:30

starting to imagine like when you

21:32

start giggling when you see hummingbirds, like you

21:34

go like insane.

21:36

Um. And it's also my

21:39

same reaction to seeing the bats exit of the

21:41

caves at night. Yes, it's just pure giddiness,

21:45

I guess, and that's all I can

21:47

really chalk it up to. Um.

21:49

But yeah, it's it's just crazy, and

21:51

it was. It was so much fun. And then we

21:54

she kind of slowly went around and let all

21:56

our candles back on, probably hating

21:58

me at that point. Um.

22:00

But all in all, it was a really fun

22:02

tour, really enlightening. And

22:05

like I said, I was starving, so I think I went

22:07

to the Underground Cafe and got like a

22:09

yogurt parfe or something. No

22:11

gave flavored bacon. No, that's

22:14

actually they should really upgrade the menu

22:16

at that cafe and have like bacon and pop warm,

22:18

because when you're done to these stories, you're starving for those

22:21

things, right. But seriously,

22:23

that was a pleasant surprise seeing that Carl's

22:25

bed Cavern's Cafe up at the National

22:27

Park. I mean that

22:29

the museum, the one of the visitors. It

22:31

was amazing, shockingly

22:34

good, and like I wasn't expecting that at all.

22:36

I usually don't. I this

22:38

is my third time it calls by Caverns, and I

22:40

had never stopped at that cafe before.

22:43

Yeah, I'm back at the Earth's surface. I mean, it's

22:45

a lot nicer up there because you actually get

22:47

like this counter service cafe and

22:49

it uses real ingredients from local farms.

22:51

I mean they had their like pulled pork sandwiches

22:54

and the printoly bare barbecue sauce UM,

22:57

and then they had the chicken green chili stew

22:59

and it with the most delicious sauces.

23:01

Oh yes, I know, so so good.

23:04

They didn't have any snowballs though, which kind of stucked.

23:06

But they did have fresh guacamole, which

23:09

also was really good. I remember being like, wow, this

23:11

is just so fresh, so good stuff. I know,

23:13

I loved it. Geology,

23:17

this is not the guacamole podcast,

23:20

as you know, so I'm not going to spend too much time on that. Let's

23:23

talk about how these cave chambers

23:25

came to be um

23:27

originally, because contrary to

23:30

all this popcorn talk, it didn't emerge from

23:32

microwave didn't. Yeah,

23:36

well where did it start though, Come on, tell

23:38

me, Yeah, here, it

23:41

all started some two million

23:43

years ago when these caves were actually part

23:45

of a tropical See this like southern

23:48

New Mexico, West Texas area was all submerged

23:50

in the shallow sea, and

23:53

then as climate steadily

23:55

changed and land mass shifted,

23:58

the water that was once here evaporated it and

24:00

left behind these limestone layers that ultimately

24:02

would form the foundation

24:05

of Carl's Bad caverns. As

24:07

rain would trickle through the limestone

24:09

and kind of slowly make

24:11

its way underground, this rainwater would

24:13

mix with other water that was doing

24:16

the opposite kind of rising back towards the surface,

24:18

pressurized by hydrogen sulfide. And

24:21

then when these two elements

24:23

mixed, they created a sulfuric acid

24:25

that could actually dissolve limestone,

24:27

and this would gradually erode the earth into

24:30

the cave chambers that are there today. Very

24:34

yeah, millions millions of Yeah,

24:37

it's not a fast process at all.

24:40

So the same process is also

24:42

what forms the the like

24:45

cave popcorn and cave bacon, the splag nites,

24:47

dog tights, all of

24:49

that. It's just the steady long process

24:52

that takes millions of millions of years,

24:54

and then you're left with all these magnificent

24:57

chambers and cave formations

24:59

that looked convenient sore snacks. Rainwater

25:02

is one of the most beautiful pieces

25:06

of our existence.

25:08

I mean, it just shaped so much

25:10

of the cave. It's incredible, like

25:12

how some something seemingly so gentle

25:16

and like ineffective can slowly do this

25:19

and these because these formations are

25:21

gigantic, They're not dainty or minuscule

25:23

at all. These rooms are huge the size

25:25

of football fields, and these formations are

25:28

much some of them are much larger than humans.

25:31

So just putting that perspective,

25:33

imagining this is all like the process of

25:36

tiny little droplets that are falling

25:38

into place over like

25:40

we said, like hundreds of millions of years

25:48

trails. I actually had

25:50

to stay back well, Matt

25:52

was hiking and we had

25:54

to stay in their view with Finn, which was beautiful

25:57

and I love that time by myself

25:59

as well, but I had a lot of work to

26:01

get done because it burns me blood farm. We

26:03

were getting into the planning

26:06

stages for sum for months um.

26:08

But now that I've gotten into the habit of getting

26:11

rental cars with matt Um. It's

26:13

a good thing because we're able to take the car and explore

26:16

on our own. Yeah, I know. I actually

26:18

can't believe it took us this long to actually

26:21

get with it and understand

26:24

that, like, oh, rental cars are a thing we could do, because

26:27

I get super restless, annoyingly

26:29

restless. Otherwise, if I don't have my own

26:31

option to do my own thing, I need to need

26:33

to get out. And I'm as everybody

26:35

knows that this mon probably I'm obsessed with hiking and I can't

26:38

stop moving, that is for sure right there.

26:40

I mean, that's when you know, when I'm free. I love

26:42

doing things together like seeing the bat flight

26:44

and take hikes along the natural entrance. Yeah,

26:47

two the best things here for sure. Another

26:49

cool thing about the park in one aspect

26:51

that a lot of people don't even realize, is just

26:54

the abundance of activities and things to do

26:56

on the surface above the cave chambers

26:59

that carls by. Everything are multiple times and

27:01

yes, you still find new things

27:03

and discover news every time. Every

27:05

time it's a new surprise. And this most

27:07

recent time was my first exploring

27:10

the surface and doing some of these surface trails,

27:12

of which there are more than fifty miles of trails

27:14

here. By the way, there's a lot of charm.

27:17

Yeah, I I didn't do all of all

27:19

fifty of course, that's that'd be crazy. But

27:21

I didn't manage to make a dance at least and start

27:23

to get a sense for what

27:26

the surface that carls By Caverns is like. And

27:29

it's amazing, Like no surprise, it's

27:31

amazing. You're in the the desert

27:34

um. It's it's very air their mountainous.

27:36

These aren't huge looming mountains.

27:39

These are more kind of more like rolling hills,

27:41

pretty arid and sand and stone and rocky,

27:44

very craggy with cactuses

27:47

and brush and stuff like that. Very

27:50

unassuming to having a huge cave there. Yeah,

27:52

very good, assuming as you're doing these trails, you would never know

27:54

that, like, oh, there's these massive cave

27:57

chambers beneath my feet that could contain

28:00

to us capitol buildings. Who knew? And

28:02

all these bats just crumble and fall, you know. No,

28:05

yeah, exactly. Now,

28:07

to get to most of the trails on the surface here, you

28:09

have to drive along this extended loop

28:12

called the Walnut Canyon Desert

28:14

Drive. It's this long dirt road

28:16

that's towards the top of

28:19

these hills where the visitor center is. And you

28:21

would tell me that it's like you would not take there.

28:23

Have you down there? No? No, I don't think

28:25

they're even allowed. I think it's one of those roads. It's so

28:27

narrow and inaccessible. You can only get there via

28:29

a car and the trail. The trail heads there

28:31

like so far out in the loop that

28:34

that's really your only option. You can't be walking

28:36

there or riding a bike or anything. But

28:39

as long as you have a car, like we had this rental

28:41

vehicle, then it was totally fine. And

28:44

I took it out. And the first trail that

28:47

I did was called Rattlesnake Canyon, which

28:49

sounds kind of scary, but it was really harmless.

28:52

It's about six miles round trip

28:54

into the Chuoman Desert and

28:57

pretty strenuous, especially on the way

28:59

back. It's a steep ascent

29:03

um as you're returning to the car. But I

29:06

loved it. I really got into it and hoofed it and

29:10

brought plenty of water because it's really sunny

29:12

and hot, especially when you do it

29:14

like mid afternoon like I did, and

29:18

just the stuff you see here is really delightful

29:21

and surprising. Again because this is my third time

29:23

I call is bad and this is all I opening

29:25

for me, Like, I had no idea this was up

29:27

here, and it was fun to explore

29:29

and see that and traverse

29:32

some of this canyon. Um, you

29:34

get kind of pretty deep into the terrain. And

29:38

when we were there some

29:40

a lot of the cactuses were starting to blossom,

29:42

so you have these bright yellow and pink

29:44

flowers. Oh it was so gorgeous.

29:46

Yeah, just really tranquil too. I didn't

29:49

see any other people in the trail. Unfortunately, I

29:51

didn't see in your rattlesnakes either either, so

29:54

yeah, no harm there. Um.

29:57

I will say on the way back um to I

30:00

should have probably slowed down because on my way

30:02

back to the car, I for some reason,

30:05

I was like speed walking or speed

30:07

hiking as I want to do, and

30:10

it was quite steep, and I was so tired

30:12

and so thirsty, and I had long since

30:15

chugged my water, so I

30:17

was in a cheking water you yeah,

30:21

no, no, no, no wildlife.

30:27

But I remember when you came back from that, you

30:29

picked me up so we can go to the bat Fright program.

30:33

Yeah, totally. That was really fun. I'm glad

30:35

that we made it for that conveniently named it

30:38

is located at the Bat Flight

30:40

Amphitheater. This is really delightful

30:42

because I get to bring up baths again. And

30:45

I remember the park Ranger having the

30:47

driest sense of humor. I mean, he

30:50

was so entertaining to listen to, because it was like listening

30:52

to Ron Swanson from Parks and Wreck. Yeah,

30:54

like Ron Burgundy or something. I love

30:57

the snark. Yeah, maybe just like a high bred

30:59

like the best of both Ron's.

31:01

Yes, Randy run. He

31:04

was great. And I didn't even know that there would

31:07

be a park Ranger or

31:09

one of their bat flight programs because I know we're kind

31:11

of early in the season. The bats were freshly

31:13

back from their migration, so I didn't know when

31:15

they would start back up again. And even the website

31:17

said like they weren't going to start until

31:19

the end of the month, and We're like, we're gonna moves.

31:22

Shoot yeah, and then narrowly we

31:24

we would have only missed up like a week, which would be in

31:26

such a bummer. I think the only reason why we actually

31:28

went because one night we saw all these cars coming out

31:30

at the same time, so we figured, oh that they must

31:32

be doing it. Yes, and much to our delight,

31:35

it all worked out and we have to learn all about these

31:37

amazing creatures. And

31:40

also one important aspect that

31:42

he reminded us several times is

31:44

several Yeah, it's important. Um,

31:47

no electronic devices whatsoever are

31:49

allowed during the bat

31:52

flight program. And in fact, he insists that

31:54

you not only turn on phones on airplane

31:56

mode, but like completely off

31:58

in a way. And this goes for not just funds, but

32:00

like any other thing you might have, like cameras

32:03

and I don't know what other pocket

32:06

sized electronics people might

32:08

have these No, oh

32:10

gosh, no, that's all right.

32:14

Yeah, they'd be especially awful because

32:16

the thing is the bats are really sensitive

32:19

to light and stuff like that.

32:21

So if things potentially flash and

32:24

harm their eyes or scare them or whatnot,

32:27

it could have serious repercussions,

32:29

meaning like they might not

32:31

come back to the cave. They might go somewhere else

32:33

where they're not being harassed

32:35

by camera flash. Yeah,

32:38

I know that can ruin their whole entire

32:40

natural existence in that cave. Um,

32:43

you know, because their warm up flights where

32:45

they circle the cave entrance by the thousands

32:48

quickly, um and

32:50

quietly. We got to watch as

32:52

we do not distrupt them, but loud

32:55

noises, talking, flashes on the cameras

32:57

anything like that can just ruin it for

32:59

a few two generations. Absolutely,

33:02

and there's no fixing it once. If the bats just to

33:04

hear, they're not coming back, so don't ruin

33:06

it. Yeah, like this is for the

33:08

next eight years of people. Yeah,

33:10

and they should be protecting it for the eight hundred years

33:12

after them. Yeah, totally. Also,

33:15

the really cool thing about the bat, or a real

33:17

benefit of that of everyone putting their devices

33:19

away and being quiet is re able

33:22

to experience this amazing

33:24

phenomenon in utter silence,

33:27

and that just adds to the

33:29

awe of the whole thing. The bats.

33:32

All you really hear is this delicate

33:34

light fluttering because their wings are so small

33:36

and there's such lightweight animals that they're

33:38

not like making big flapping noises like birds or

33:40

anything. So you're just in this really

33:42

silent, mesmerized state with

33:45

these clouds of bats

33:47

swarming above your head. It's really incredible,

33:50

really, it really is. I Mean we sat

33:53

there for a good forty five

33:55

minutes to an hour just watching

33:57

them. After they started flying out like

33:59

there was just hundreds of thousands of them and it

34:02

was so so beautiful.

34:05

Yeah, I know, it really was. We were there for well

34:08

into darkness they go for

34:10

a while. We left before the migration

34:12

was even over. They were still

34:14

coming out like hey, we're like, okay,

34:17

we should probably call it a night. This

34:19

is park Landia. Thank you for listening. We'll have

34:21

more after a short break. I'm

34:36

Brad, I'm Matt. Welcome back

34:38

to park Landia, my

34:41

favorite. Now it's a time to

34:43

go into one of our favorite segments of

34:45

the podcast. What was

34:48

our favorite part of

34:50

this National park? But this

34:52

time I want to say it together on

34:55

a kund of three or after the kind

34:57

of three, so it goes one to three, then answer

35:00

alrighty one

35:03

two three. WHOA.

35:07

I really thought I really thought we were going to be

35:09

in sync on that, and um, the fact

35:12

that we aren't, it just

35:14

shows you that I really really missed

35:16

out by not going on a tour. Unfortunately,

35:19

we'll have to do that next time. And then so

35:22

I want to do that lantern tour again. I would do that in a heartbeat.

35:24

It was so much fun. Yeah, we're gonna have to plan

35:27

that better next time. That was my phone.

35:29

Well, I you know, because

35:33

of that tour. One of the three things that I

35:35

would definitely bring would be layers because

35:37

it gets cold as you go down into the cave

35:39

and I would love to do that tour, so I need to bring layers

35:42

from my next trip. UM definitely

35:44

like one leader of water. It's surprisingly

35:47

crazy how much water you drink from

35:50

the hiking trails above, as you've noted,

35:52

and then going down into the cave and back,

35:55

there's just a lot of water consumption. But

35:58

this is something that has them up

36:00

in almost every three things to bring,

36:02

so bring a lot of water.

36:04

Um. And then for me, UM,

36:07

we had to do laundry the last day and

36:09

which was really frustrating because they closed

36:11

it like seven and we just got it done in time.

36:13

But I would definitely bring some quarters for the

36:16

r Very Park, laundry, exciting

36:19

stuff. UM. The things that I

36:21

would bring first and foremost,

36:23

make sure that you have a supply of snacks like popcorn

36:26

and bacon and stuff, because you're gonna want it

36:29

after you do one of the tours, I assure you.

36:31

The other thing, I would also really agree with the layers

36:34

thing because the temperature differential is big,

36:37

especially if you visit um during

36:39

their prime, like summer months when it's

36:41

really hot on the surface, and then the temperature

36:43

plummets to like the mid fifties, so

36:46

you almost need to have like an outfit change. I recommend

36:48

bringing like a light jacket or something, and I had

36:51

like leggings on underneath my shorts,

36:53

so there's a little flexibility there. Mats

36:55

like Beyonce performance

36:59

style of Later. He just strips them off throughout

37:01

the day and fabulously

37:04

perfect. I always appreciate that comparison.

37:06

Thank you. Um. And then I

37:08

would say the third thing to bring would

37:11

be, um, maybe a copy

37:13

of Snce Little Lambs, because it's gonna

37:15

put you in the mood. Don't be a creep come on, come

37:18

on. I do love that movie. We watch it probably.

37:22

I stand by that game. It's my favorite movie. I don't

37:24

care how many people in a cave laugh

37:27

at me. Yeah, it's

37:29

really creepy. Um. But you

37:31

know, now, in regard to our dream vacation at Carl's

37:33

Bad Caverns, I think we both have our heart

37:36

set on doing hands on cave

37:38

tour. Yes, I would love to

37:40

do that so much. Yeah, I mean, the

37:42

park has a couple of tours that they call wild

37:44

caving, and these are not for the faint

37:46

of heart, but they are from my heart

37:48

because I want to do it. I want to squeeze

37:51

through them. I want to go through them.

37:53

But then there's the Spider Cave tour, which

37:55

I'm not Yeah, I'm

37:57

like not all about that spider life. I mean it's

37:59

fine. Um. And then there's

38:01

a hall of gray white giants.

38:04

Yeah, someone sounds us

38:06

intimidating. Yeah, the white

38:09

giant. I mean it just sounds

38:11

like it's a big space, so it shouldn't be that hard, right,

38:14

Yeah, although I mean from

38:16

what it sounds like, both these are basically

38:18

super lunking, Like you're squeezing

38:20

and crawling and you're in narrow spaces for

38:23

a while. There are long tourists too, Compared to like the

38:25

other ones, these are like four hours. So don't

38:27

be fooled by the name. Is that what you're saying? Yeah,

38:29

kind because it requires crawling through, you know,

38:31

squeezing into tight spaces. I mean you'll

38:34

probably get dirty, right, you'll yeah, you'll get

38:36

dirty. I love it. Yes, let's go back. You'll

38:38

probably get scared, but it'll

38:40

be good. It'll be a memory, that's for sure,

38:42

and they'll stick with you. And as honestly

38:45

as frightening as these situations

38:47

sound, it also sounds primarily

38:49

amazing. And for me

38:51

it just seems like a real bucket list type experience

38:53

right up there with like the bat migration

38:56

and like all

38:59

that I think is important to do. I

39:01

would love to do it and make sure that we make reservations.

39:04

There's definitely a lot of wonders about this National

39:06

park, and I think it's probably

39:08

one of the more underrated National

39:11

parks in the system.

39:13

Yeah, there's especially there's a lot of elements here

39:15

that are underrated and unknown, like like the

39:17

surface trails, and so much

39:19

to do beyond just watching the bats and stuff

39:22

like that. Um and

39:24

then continuing with the dream vacation

39:26

stuff if we survive that

39:28

these narrow, terrifying cave

39:31

tours, I think would be really nice to stay at the Trinity

39:33

Hotel in downtown carl is Bad. Yes,

39:36

they were so nice, beautiful, Although

39:38

keep in mind that when we say downtown we

39:40

mean that loosely, and the word downtown

39:42

air quotes. There's really

39:44

not much of a city nearby, and Carl's Bad caverns

39:47

is technically not in Carl's Bad New

39:49

Mexico. It's kind of like twenty minutes down

39:51

the road. But the Trinity Hotel

39:54

is such a gem. It's along the main

39:57

street and it's located in the old

39:59

bank building. Yeah, the building used

40:01

to be an old bank, so it has this classic motif,

40:03

very vintage looking, and it's not a

40:05

big hotel. There's only a few boutique rooms

40:08

upstairs, with this restaurant

40:10

on the ground floor. Very popular restaurant.

40:12

Yeah, I was so glad they could like squeeze us

40:14

in because they were like the last table of the

40:17

night on like a Tuesday night or something. Yeah,

40:19

like they were like, what Tuesday. Yeah, they're

40:21

killing it. But I'm obsessed

40:23

with the green chili chicken Alfredo

40:26

we had when we were there was wonderful

40:28

good and they had some really good New Mexico wine,

40:30

Yes they did. It was like an all New Mexico

40:32

wine list, very impressive. And this is right before

40:34

we were going to the New

40:36

Mexico Wine Festival in Albuquerque.

40:39

Yeah, so really what our appetites, it was, it was

40:41

great, So it'd be it'd be cool to like spend some

40:43

time there in between Cave

40:45

tours, and then yeah,

40:48

that that'd be just comfortable and not so

40:50

comfortable, and when the bats come out to eat

40:52

all the mosquitoes will just be gorge and green

40:54

chili. Oh yeah, I love green chilies as much as bats

40:56

love mosquitoes. You've

41:03

been listening to park Landia. The show

41:05

is created by Matt Carrouac, Brad Carouac,

41:07

and Christopher hasiotis produced and edited

41:09

by Mike Johns, and our executive producer

41:12

is Christopher hasiotis special thanks

41:14

to Gabrielle Collins, Crystal Waters, and

41:16

the rest of the park Landia crew. You can

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keep up with our travels on our Instagram at

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Parklandia pot and join the conversation

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in our Parklandia Rangers Facebook group.

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You can find links to all this stuff in the show's

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notes at Parklandia podcast dot com.

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Parkland is a production of I Heart

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Media. Thanks for listening.