0:00

Well, I'm thrilled to report we're back

0:02

in one of my all time favorite states this week

0:04

to talk about our latest park, Jewel

0:06

Cave National Monument in South Dakota.

0:09

That's right, and there's a lot to uncover here because

0:11

I feel like even though Jewel Cave is

0:13

the third longest cave in the world and

0:15

the second longest United States not

0:18

to mention one of the oldest National

0:20

park sites in the country, not a lot of

0:22

people know much about it. Yeah, that's true.

0:24

I think it tends to get overshadowed, mainly by

0:26

other nearby South Dakota parks like bad

0:29

Lands, Mount Rushmore and Wind Cave, the

0:31

lotter of which we actually tried to visit on this same

0:33

trip this past summer, but their elevators

0:36

weren't working where we were passing through,

0:38

so they weren't able to give cave tours and

0:40

that really sucked at first.

0:42

But I've been on the Tower of Terro Ride

0:44

at Disney and I know that elevator

0:47

mechanics are an important thing. So by

0:49

all means, get it, take your time,

0:51

figure it out. I don't want to go plunging down into the

0:53

cave. It's really fitting that you bring up that ride because

0:55

if you remember from our first Cave episode

0:58

from season one about Carl's bed Averns,

1:00

a portion of the caves where natural light

1:02

mixes with the complete darkness is

1:05

called the twilight zone. Yeah, so that

1:07

Tower of Terror reference actually just fits

1:09

in perfectly. But anyway, we're

1:11

excited to shine a spotlight or in this case,

1:13

a lantern on Jewel Cave National

1:15

Monument, and coming up later in this episode,

1:18

we're super excited because we have

1:20

a special guest park ranger,

1:22

Mike Wiles to talk with us, so

1:24

stay tuned for that. Hi.

1:28

I'm Matt and I'm Brad. This is park Landia

1:30

production of I Heart Radio. We sold

1:32

our loft in Chicago, moved into an RV

1:35

full time, and now we're traveling the country with

1:37

our dog Finn, exploring America's national

1:39

parks. This week's episode

1:41

is on Jewel Cave National Monument, which

1:44

is in western South Dakota. All

1:50

right, let's just address the obvious elephant

1:52

in the room that I'm sure you're all wondering about.

1:55

This place is Jewel Cave National

1:57

Monument and not, in fact Jewel's Cave

2:00

the monument, so it's not

2:02

named for nor presided over by

2:04

singer songwriter Jewel. I know, I

2:07

was as shocked as you probably are now. Well,

2:10

they do have one thing in common, though, Jewel Cave

2:12

and Jewel the Singer are both poetic

2:15

in their own ways. That's true. Maybe

2:17

this is why I felt like such an immediate

2:19

kinship with this place though, because I'm

2:21

not sure if you remember or if I ever really

2:23

shared this fact with you, but when I was

2:25

a kid, I had memorized Jewels.

2:28

You were meant for me song like by heart, word

2:30

for word. And not only that,

2:32

in case that wasn't weird enough, but I would ride

2:35

my little scooter, like my Razor scooter around

2:37

our driveway for probably

2:40

hours, singing it in my both

2:42

in my head and aloud. And then

2:46

I don't know what that was. Um, I

2:48

don't like you know, those c d because that's

2:50

where you would They were so delicate, you would bump it. No,

2:52

just freezer. Yeah,

2:56

I remember, like vividly those

2:58

lyrics and that music video, which

3:00

was just wonderful. It

3:03

really was. Um, and you've been meant

3:05

belt out at karaoke too, Yeah, I guess

3:07

it's kind of like a go to sing

3:10

along song for me, especially now in a karaoke

3:12

venue, because last time I sang this song was actually

3:14

our last night in Chicago in two thousand

3:17

and eighteen. We were out bar hopping

3:19

with a couple of our best friends from Chicago,

3:21

Louise and Maggie. You had gone home

3:23

for the night, I think, because we had had a long night at

3:25

that point, dinner, drinks and stuff. But

3:28

the three of us wind up going to some

3:30

nearby karaoke slash cocktail

3:32

bar that I had never even heard of, even though it was

3:34

like half a mile or but definitely

3:36

less than a mile from our law which is crazy crazy.

3:39

I it had blended in with like the streetscape,

3:41

but I always assumed it was like a used

3:43

furniture store or something because it had like a

3:45

generic name and it kind of looked shoddy. But

3:48

it really fit the vibe here, and

3:50

we just most it up to the bar. I think

3:52

Louise and Maggie had wine. I had

3:54

like a banana bread martini, which

3:57

is one of their weird dessert drinks,

3:59

so like they had classy drinks and I had like liquid

4:02

banana bread. And when

4:04

we're all picking our karaoke songs, I was just

4:06

like I don't even need to look at the book. I know

4:08

what I'm singing. It's a jewel for

4:10

me. And even though

4:12

I was already an emotional rack going in, so

4:15

her music did not help the situation one

4:17

bit. Yeah, that really was a

4:20

difficult time, I mean, especially for you, for both

4:22

of us, but like more so just that you

4:24

know, I left before the emotions ran rampid,

4:26

before I had Yeah,

4:29

I couldn't handle it. But fortunately

4:32

Jewel Cave has nothing to do with any of that, so

4:34

we can easily transition away from this emotional

4:36

wreck um type of topic.

4:40

But it's funny, I'm always learning these strange

4:42

musical facts about you, like when you wrote a

4:44

rap song about hades in the fifth grade, and

4:46

now how you memorialized and memorized

4:49

Jewel. Yeah, it is very strange,

4:51

and you think about it even more so just

4:54

the fact that I somehow always finagal these

4:56

embarrassing facts into episodes about

4:58

national parks on an your constant

5:00

basis. But back to the cave. Let's

5:03

start with some numbers, because

5:05

they're even more impressive than Matt's karaoke

5:07

skills. But true,

5:10

I set a pretty low bar. Let's be honest, you don't

5:12

need to hear me sing Jral history.

5:16

So, Jewel Cave is the third longest

5:18

cave in the world. It's got about two hundred miles

5:21

of mapped passageways, which puts

5:23

it behind only Systema Sac

5:25

at Tune in Mexico and Mammoth

5:27

Cave National Park in Kentucky, which we talked

5:29

about earlier this season. Yes, that makes

5:32

Jewel Cave the second longest in

5:34

the US, significantly longer

5:36

than any other well known caves like Wind

5:38

Cave National Park in Carl's Bud Caverns

5:40

National Park. Yeah. It was first

5:42

discovered in nine by a couple

5:44

of prospectors, Frank and Albert

5:47

miss showed, which is exciting

5:49

and great that they stumbled across this place, but less

5:51

great that they blew up and expanded cave

5:53

entrance with dynamite. Yeah, but

5:56

they found was like spectacular.

5:58

I mean, it was unlike anything either of them

6:00

had ever seen. Um, it was dark,

6:02

ominous cavern lined

6:05

with shimmering Calcia crystals

6:07

which were just so ambient and beautiful

6:09

that they immediately named it

6:11

Jewel Cave. I mean, yeah, what else. It's the most

6:13

straightforward, literal, sensible name I've

6:16

ever heard and the whole scene really just

6:18

reminds me of the crystal mines from Snow White, those

6:20

like kind of shimmering crystals and dark

6:24

like magic loved it all And if

6:26

we're going down that route, I think freaking out. But we're

6:28

probably like Doc and Happy

6:31

if we're comparing them to dwarves, which I am.

6:33

And I feel like the other doors were all potentially

6:36

offensive, Like they're all these kind of drastic

6:38

stereotypes that don't really make sense. But let's

6:41

go with these two. Doc and Happy. Yeah, I'm Doc

6:43

and Happy had dynamite, um

6:45

so they wanted to capitalize on their discovery

6:48

and turn the cave into a tourist attraction,

6:50

um so they could earn money. They wound

6:52

up building little pathways inside the cave

6:55

and a large and

6:57

to make even more appealing, they even established

6:59

an order oranization called the Jewel Cave

7:01

Dancing Club in n two. Sounds

7:04

like a fun time, Yeah, I feel like that sounds like one

7:06

of those like hipster esque like cocktail

7:08

bars. Now, Yeah, I

7:11

think there's a place in Chicago that could definitely

7:13

make this right, Like I could see it as

7:15

like this kind of quasi speak easy because

7:17

it needs to be dark and tucked away to fit

7:20

the cave name, and then also

7:22

have these shimmering colors reminiscent

7:24

of crystals. And

7:27

still that

7:29

would I think be really bad for a dancing

7:31

club setting. Would get hurt A

7:33

liability, big liability. Yeah,

7:36

but you know, it's a good idea,

7:39

especially when you're wanting to attract that very

7:41

specific niche of people interested in

7:44

both dancing and caving, and that's what

7:46

they wanted to do. They wanted to do that too, but

7:48

sadly for them, but great

7:50

for everyone else, their idea never caught on and

7:53

they were not able to monetize this. However,

7:56

all this hoop law did garner the attention

7:58

of President Theodore Roosevelt, and

8:00

he, yep, he's always coming in for the rescue,

8:03

and he protected the cave by naming it Jewel Cave

8:05

National Monument way back in several

8:07

years before the National Park Service was even established.

8:11

One of the great things about this place, um

8:13

is that once it was owned by the National

8:15

Park Service and it was created,

8:18

park ranges were able to give cave tours

8:20

in ways that were safe and informative,

8:22

as opposed to tours led by two money

8:25

hungry pyros Right. Yeah,

8:27

that sounds much better. And one of the most

8:29

amazing tidbits about all this is how little

8:32

everybody knew about the cave at the time

8:34

of the discovery in national monument status,

8:36

they only knew about a couple of miles in fact,

8:38

when it first was created or

8:41

first established, until

8:43

the Park Service employed a couple of local rock climbers

8:45

and cavers. Herb and Jan

8:48

Kahn were fearless heroes. In

8:50

my eyes, I could never do something like that. It could

8:52

never be professional caver. They

8:54

started exploring the cave in depth literally

8:56

in nine and they continued

8:58

doing so for two deck Gate's two decades.

9:01

That's nuts, ultimately mapping more

9:03

than sixty four additional miles. And it

9:05

hasn't stopped there either. The park is

9:08

constantly being mapped by new passageways

9:10

even today, and they've since added an

9:12

elevator to take visitors down there to the half

9:14

mile scenic Loop Cave

9:16

tour. Yeah, you've got to admire

9:18

the work that these cavers do. If cavers this

9:21

is even a word, because my spall Chuck didn't seem

9:23

to think so, but it cavers

9:26

anyway, It sounds less outrageous than like cave people

9:28

or something, So that's what I'm going to use. But

9:30

the work that they do is just so astonishing

9:33

and so impressive and especially

9:35

intimidating. My god, it's like my worst cluster

9:38

for having nightmare. This is a world that's

9:40

just pitch black and completely quiet and solitary.

9:43

It's the same temperature and humidity year round,

9:45

which I think can be a good thing in winter,

9:47

I guess, especially in South Dakota. But it's

9:50

really just the ultimate isolation and such

9:52

an unnatural and wild frontier

9:54

for humans really, especially since

9:57

people exploring and mapping the cave today frequently

9:59

camp out underground for days at a time.

10:02

Um, they must be like completely fearless

10:04

and not at all afraid of the dark. Yeah,

10:07

that's that's true. I remember while we're on

10:09

our cave tour here with our little group, there

10:11

was this one little girl in the group who asked

10:13

the branger what happens if someone

10:15

down in the cave gets hurt or gets lost or something like

10:17

that, And I was like, girl, I don't I don't

10:19

even want to know the answer to that question. It's

10:21

scary, you know. It's just a very um

10:24

for in like terrifying

10:27

realm, and I'm like, I don't even want to think about

10:29

that. But then the answer why up being like normal and rational,

10:31

Like the park just does periodic regular

10:34

communication checks, so if they don't

10:36

hear back, they'll go down and and find them

10:38

in just rectify

10:40

the situation, which was reassuring, but still

10:42

this cave, this cave life is not for

10:44

me. When

10:52

we visit a Jewel Cave, it was in August

10:54

and we were driving to r V back east after

10:56

being in Wyoming for most of July. Our

10:59

friend kend actually from Chicago.

11:02

He came down and flew

11:05

out. This was our neighbor that lived down the

11:07

hall from us, and it was

11:09

just really cool because we just last minute.

11:11

He said, Hey, how are you guys doing and

11:14

what are you guys up to? When can I join you? I

11:16

said, you can join us after we are in Cheyenne.

11:18

Just fly out and we'll drive back through Chicago.

11:21

And he's like, oh, I really wasn't expecting

11:23

it to be that quick, and but he did it. And

11:26

it was just one of those really great times because we

11:28

got to go to a lot of places um

11:30

in between, like the bad Lands, Mount

11:33

Rushmore and Jewel Cave along

11:35

the way. Yeah, it was a great a great

11:37

time, and altogether it wind up being

11:39

this really epic American a suburb

11:41

road trip. I think all that was really missing was like

11:44

Miley Cyrus song party in the

11:46

USA, like blasting at full volume with

11:48

our windows down. It really was our own little

11:50

party and we had a great time. And it was especially

11:53

nice to see Kendall again. Um. He was

11:55

our first official guest in the r v UM

11:57

that we had along like a traveling route.

12:00

Um. We've had people visit and

12:02

see it before, but no one really stayed with us

12:04

like Kendall did. Um. It really made

12:06

me feel like home again because we got to bond

12:08

and just talk and catch up. And this

12:10

was like my best friend in Chicago.

12:12

Like I would just go down into the

12:14

alley way where his workshop was, and I would

12:17

talk to him. I would just you know, really relax

12:19

and have such an amazing time

12:22

in his company all the time. I like,

12:24

how you you guys are hanging out in the alley.

12:27

It was a nice alley. It's not as creepy as it sounds.

12:29

It was beautiful. I mean it was romantic, romantic

12:32

in my eyes because of the way that um

12:35

our loft was set up, you know, I mean when

12:37

we say it was our dream loft, I mean it was

12:39

um and we had you know, crazy

12:41

Kendall, crazy Kendall crazy

12:44

with the yes um. And it was really

12:46

nice too because this was more than a year

12:48

into our view who knows about a

12:50

year into our v living and he was the first kind of

12:52

friend to come out and like actually spend the

12:54

time and put the effort in, which is like it's about

12:56

time not to like put pressure on other

12:59

friends and stuff. And I'm like, you, guys, we

13:02

miss you and you miss us. You're constantly

13:04

telling us you miss us, so how about you follow

13:06

through? And it's kind of hard though, because like

13:08

we are like like getting

13:11

darts being thrown at a moving target, right,

13:14

Yeah, But I'm glad

13:16

this worked out and it's definitely something we were needing

13:18

and missing, like you said. And we had a great time

13:20

visiting all these places together, Like we

13:22

started in Cheyenne, Wyoming at

13:24

Cheyenne Frontier Days this epic

13:27

rodeo and carnival which was spectacular

13:29

and crazy, and then going through

13:31

like Rapid City and Des Moines, Iowa, and

13:33

of course that this stop in Joel

13:35

Cave Yeah, we decided to go book

13:38

our v site in Rapid City,

13:41

which is the hub of the western part of South Dakota

13:44

and accessible to all kinds of popular places

13:46

like bad Lands and Mount Rushmore. Yeah, I'm

13:48

obsessed with Rapid City. I've been a few times at this

13:50

point, and it's such a great place thriving.

13:53

There's so much to do there, and just the proximity

13:55

to all these wonderful places is extraordinary,

13:58

hard to beat. It's very in an hour from Jewel

14:00

Cave, and the route to and

14:03

from is also just super scenic. You

14:05

drive through the Black Hills and these sprawling

14:07

pine forests and also these adorable

14:10

historic towns like Custer Cave.

14:15

Yeah. So Jewel Cave was our first stop

14:17

on this trip because it's the closest to the Wyoming

14:20

border. We went on a weekday and didn't make any

14:22

advanced reservations for any cave tours because

14:24

you can only do that on a first come, first basis

14:27

right there on site, which is nice and it's

14:29

fair. Yeah. I think I actually prefer it that

14:31

way because when we were at Carl's Black Caverns

14:33

together, I remember how unknowingly impossible

14:35

it was to get tickets to most of the cave tours

14:38

because all the tickets had been snatched up

14:40

like weeks prior, or up to

14:42

months prior in some cases. Like I'm

14:44

sorry, but I don't. I don't make cave plans like a year in

14:46

advance. Okay, Like I'm more of an impromptu

14:49

caver I guess. Um. Yeah.

14:51

We got to Jewel Cave in the late morning and we were

14:53

easily able to get three tickets to the Historic

14:55

Lantern tour um, which was a lot of fun.

14:57

It was a real blast from the past. Uh

15:00

oh, definitely was. I love any activity where

15:02

I get to hold like this old timy lantern and feel

15:04

like a cave mining dwarf. Probably if

15:06

I was going to be uh one of the seven doors, I think

15:08

I would be dopey, let's be honest. Also,

15:11

I think i'm I know currently as a

15:13

recording, I'm wearing a hat that makes me look at dopey. It's

15:15

like one of those winter like teal blue

15:17

hats. It's a joke, but it

15:19

really is. Um No. But it's

15:21

also worth noting that the tour is the

15:24

only offered during the summer from

15:26

mid June through Labor Day and that's

15:28

mostly because there's an unpaved outdoor

15:30

trail you need to take to get to this door entrance

15:32

with a bunch of uneven steps. So I

15:34

could see it getting really icy and

15:36

snowy, and so you just don't want to fall right. You

15:38

don't want to be slipping down into the canyon, that's for sure.

15:41

But our tour is great. We got our tickets

15:43

and we just had to wait around for about an hour

15:46

before the tour started. So we explored

15:48

the visitor center, which was awesome and had

15:50

tons of information about the cave in the park,

15:52

including this shocking fact

15:55

that Joel Cave is apparently what's

15:57

called a breathing cave, meaning that

15:59

air at sits and enters the cave as

16:01

atmospheric pressure changes, kind

16:04

of similar to how tides evan and flow in the ocean.

16:06

So I felt like I was walking into Earth's

16:08

lot. It was crazy. We also learned a

16:10

lot about the geology of this cave because

16:13

all of those shimmering crystals didn't just show

16:15

up overnight. No, not at all, not at

16:17

all. Most of the formation of the cave

16:19

started with limestone deposited million

16:22

years ago, followed by more limestone and sandstones,

16:25

all of which were routed away during the geologic

16:28

uplift as the Black Hills were forming and rising

16:30

passes ways started to take shape during

16:33

during the Cenozoic period, as

16:35

uplift continued and lowered the water

16:37

table enough to clear things out, and

16:40

millions of years after that, layers of kelseyite

16:42

started to form along the cave walls

16:44

about two point five million years

16:46

ago. I mean, it's a long time, um.

16:49

This is where those crystals started to form, along

16:51

with lots and lots of other cave formations

16:53

like flow stone and

16:55

stalactites and cave pearls

16:58

and boxworks and all. So a super

17:00

rare cave formation called a hydro

17:02

magnesite balloon, and it's pretty

17:05

much what it sounds like. They're made when gas inflates

17:07

a malleable earthen substance. So essentially

17:10

these were inflated when portions of the cave were still

17:12

delicate and pliable enough to be maneuvered

17:14

by gases. Long story short,

17:16

there's a ton to learn down there, and not all

17:19

underground. Apparently there was a major forest

17:21

fire here in two thousand that burned of

17:24

the monument, and you can still see a lots of

17:26

the remnants of those like ravage trees

17:28

in the forest surrounding the visitor center and

17:31

along the road leading to the park. Yeah,

17:33

before we got here, I've never even heard of this fire

17:35

or knew that happened. But it's like, immediately

17:37

in abundantly clearance you're driving theory're like something

17:40

happened and it's

17:42

horrific. It was called the Jasper fire,

17:44

and it spread to more than eighty three acres

17:47

of this beautiful Black Hills land. The

17:49

park was evacuated, of course, and closed for

17:51

several days, and National Park Service employees

17:53

actually moved computers and documents into

17:55

the cave to keep it safe, just in case the

17:58

visitors center itself end up being on touched.

18:00

Fortunately. Yeah, this was also

18:02

part of the reason why most of the surface hiking

18:04

trails were closed when we were there. Um,

18:06

there aren't many trails, but they

18:09

are routinely closed because burned

18:11

trees are constantly falling on windy days

18:13

and it's really potentially dangerous. Yeah. And

18:16

also there's really a huge difference between

18:18

this Jasper fire and natural fires that happened

18:20

in this part of the country, usually caused by things like

18:22

lightning strikes. These actually

18:24

have lots of benefits in the life cycle of the

18:26

forest because not only do they thin out the forest

18:29

so that trees aren't densely packed together competing

18:32

for sunlight, but fire ads nutrients

18:34

into the soil that helps plants and animals.

18:36

Yeah. The jazzper fire, on the other hand, was

18:39

arson apparently by a Wyoming

18:41

woman who was driving through and tossed

18:43

a match on the ground for some reason, just

18:46

to just to cause trouble or litter

18:49

and then burn the forest to the ground. Who knows.

18:52

When we come back from the short break, we'll head underground

18:54

a jewel cave. Hi,

19:22

I'm Matt and I'm Brad. This is Park Glandia

19:25

and this week's episode is on Juel Cave National

19:27

Monument in South Dakota tour

19:30

So here's how the caves are worked for us. When we

19:32

got there, we got tickets right away, waited

19:35

around the visitor center for a little while, I had some

19:37

snacks when the gift shop, and then

19:39

we wound up having to drive out of the visitor center

19:42

parking lot about a mile down

19:44

the street to the historic entrance parking lot. We

19:46

didn't realize it was all separate at first, but that worked

19:48

out just fine. The tour started at this old

19:50

park ranger cabin from the nineteen thirties, led

19:52

by an excellent park ranger guide who pointed

19:55

out all these interesting things in the cabin, like a

19:57

vintage stove. Um, there was fireplaces

20:00

is actually a fireplace.

20:02

And from here the group headed outside of the

20:04

cabin and we all lined up in a circle to get our

20:06

lanterns. Yeah. Then we meandered

20:08

down this little path, down some steps and

20:11

along a canyon wall to the main entrance of the

20:13

cave. And since this is in

20:15

fact a breathing cave, you can actually feel

20:17

cool air pouring out of it, and since

20:19

we were there on a hot August afternoon,

20:21

it felt amazing, like all

20:23

natural pure air conditioning. It was great.

20:26

Yeah. The historic entrance has a locked

20:28

gate for obvious reasons to keep up people

20:30

and animals. But once the guide

20:33

unlocked it, we all went inside and had

20:35

them light our lanterns one at

20:37

a time. It was nice and cool

20:39

inside at a consistent temperature about like

20:41

forty nine degrees I believe. Um,

20:44

And so we you know, you

20:46

bring in some light layers. You definitely need some

20:49

sturdy hiking shoes because these tours definitely

20:51

require more maneuvering, Um, because

20:53

there's definitely uneven and rocky

20:55

surfaces, right right. Yeah, So

20:57

this store was super immersive and it

20:59

was cool because we got to feel like what

21:02

it was like to be the earliest explorers

21:04

here who are navigating these narrow, dark passage

21:06

ways for the very first time. There

21:08

were a lot of steep stairs that went up and down

21:10

through tight openings and also low ceilings,

21:12

So watch your head. I think I bought my head at least

21:15

once, but I just played it off quite cool.

21:17

Absolutely, I mean, ultimately, though, the tour leads

21:19

to these wide open chambers that have plenty of room,

21:22

like the Heavenly Room. Um that got

21:24

his name from this crystal formation on the ceiling

21:26

that apparently looks like Madonna and a child.

21:29

Gorgeous. Yeah. This is also

21:31

the part of the tour where everyone kind of sits down

21:33

somewhere and the guy it has this all turn out

21:35

our lantern so that we're in total darkness. I

21:37

did this when I was at Carl's Bad Cabins for the first

21:39

time, and it's always such a surreal experience

21:41

to be an utter darkness like this. You could

21:44

like literally put your hand right in front of

21:46

your face and you'll never see

21:48

it. You won't see it. Then your eyes will never adjust

21:50

because there's no light whatsoever, so there's

21:52

nothing for your eyes to adjust to. And

21:56

it's it's like the wildest experience.

21:58

Yeah, I mean, it's really not

22:01

a scary thing. It's actually quite calming

22:04

and in this natural and primitive

22:06

way. Yeah, it is.

22:08

This store takes about one hour and four to five

22:10

minutes total and all together it's like

22:13

half a mile round trip. But it is marked

22:15

as strenuous since there are steep passages

22:17

and narrow openings, and it requires climbing

22:19

some wooden steps that are essentially

22:21

just ladders, like you're you're

22:23

using your hands for a lot of it too. They're not just like traditional

22:26

stairs. And there's also an age element of

22:28

eight years old, like you need to be at least eight to

22:30

do this. Another thing to point out is that

22:32

there's white nose syndrome. This is a

22:35

disease that affects bats in

22:37

certain parts of the country, in certain caves,

22:40

and this is one of them. Um, it's harmless

22:42

to humans, but we can transmit it. So you're wearing

22:44

the same shoes or clothing in one cave and

22:46

then bring it to another. That's how it transmits.

22:49

Yeah, so you have to be mindful of that. So when

22:51

you're leaving Joel Cave, they actually have you walked through

22:53

this cleansing solution to like

22:55

clean and sanitize your shoes. But still you

22:58

should absolutely not wear them in any other

23:00

cave, just for the for the sake of the

23:02

bats. Better safe than sorry. Yeah, we didn't

23:04

see any bats while we were here, um,

23:06

but they're definitely the park's

23:08

most popular animal. Um there.

23:10

I think there's nine different species of bats

23:12

that live in this cave, and six

23:15

of them live their full year round.

23:17

Yeah, we actually really didn't see many

23:19

animals here in general when you now

23:22

that we think about it, But other wildlife that lives

23:24

in the area includes white tailed deer, mule

23:26

deer, elk, and eastern cotton

23:29

tail rabbits. So basically

23:31

all the cute things you'd expect to see dancing along

23:33

in the background of a snow white song basically

23:35

which fits. And also there are a few

23:38

more tours you can do a Jewel Cave too, including

23:40

the Scenic tour, which is the most popular. Um.

23:43

It's also easier and less intimidating since

23:45

it's a paved trail with lighting and you can access

23:47

on the elevator directly from the visitor center.

23:50

Yeah. The reason it's so popular is because this

23:52

is where all those jewels are, like the cave's

23:55

namesake specimens, or

23:58

most of them anyway, because when people think

24:00

of Jewel Cave, they think of these shimmering crystals,

24:02

and when you do this tour, you'll see a

24:04

ton of them. It's just super bright

24:06

and colorful. It honestly, it looks

24:08

like a Lisa Frank folder down here. It's super

24:10

vivid. Oh man. And

24:13

there's also wild caving tours, um,

24:16

since every National Park cave has something intense

24:18

like that. Yeah. Yeah, we haven't done

24:20

any of these yet because I'm terrified

24:22

and I don't I honestly don't know if I have to

24:25

the bravery to do it, but maybe one day.

24:27

This one requires the hard hat and a headlamp

24:30

and lots and lots of crawling. The

24:32

main reason I think I want to do this one in particular,

24:34

though, is because the cave formations here have

24:36

the most amazing names, including

24:39

Hurricane Corner, Martha's Kettle

24:41

roller Coaster, and Brain

24:43

Drain. I mean they all sound

24:45

like a six fix water park or something.

24:48

They're they're they're great. I

24:50

have expect them to sell tails down there city.

24:58

What I really want to talk about is our

25:01

lifestyle within the r V. And it's

25:04

really this thing that um can be

25:06

difficult to discuss or talk about

25:08

because you only have so much space.

25:10

You know, we live in twenty six feet

25:12

of space by about like I don't

25:15

know, eight to nine ft wide, and

25:17

so when people travel with us

25:19

or when we're with other people, it gets

25:21

a little bit harder to navigate our normal

25:24

light like daily lifestyle. Yeah,

25:26

and finding that is kind

25:29

of a little bit more difficult. So we try to make it really

25:31

homey for visitors while like also

25:34

like laying this in like education with them,

25:36

like how we move around, because it's

25:39

not easy, no, and people are fascinated

25:41

by that, so they get to experience it firsthand.

25:43

This is our first kind of a testeron

25:46

I guess of having like a I

25:48

guess for longer than a few

25:50

hours. Yeah, and kind of did great.

25:52

I mean I remember one point he actually just he just

25:54

jumped up on the r V roof and he laid down there

25:57

while we were in Cheyenne and it was just great

25:59

because I'm like us, you are using the RV,

26:01

you're living it, you're loving it, like perfect.

26:03

And that's the best part about Kendall. You just makes himself

26:05

right at home and he knows how to respect

26:08

like boundaries and things like that, and so uh,

26:11

that was probably one of my favorite parts about this

26:13

is like finding that like appropriate

26:16

guest. Um, and we were on the

26:18

move. It's a lot easier to have multiple

26:20

people because we're getting in and how do the RV all the

26:22

time? And you know, we're driving, so

26:24

like you know, you can lay back. Um. It

26:27

was the first time I didn't have like he took like

26:29

the wheel for like five hours and I got to sit

26:31

in the back and experience it for the first time. What

26:33

if you Yeah,

26:36

that's crazy. It's nice, right, I'm still

26:38

waiting for the day that you take the wheel, which

26:40

you've been talking about. I've promising

26:42

that for like a year and a half, dangling in

26:44

front of you like a carrot. Yeah, well it's a

26:47

carrot I'm running after. So um.

26:51

But you know, we really

26:53

care about how we travel and

26:55

how to keep our personal spaces, and so

26:59

when people come in, we just we want

27:01

to help guide them into our

27:03

lifestyle, which this was the first time we had

27:06

that chance, and so we made mistakes

27:08

and there's things that we could have done better, and you

27:10

know, but basically it

27:12

was a learning experience. Yes, it was

27:14

fun though, it was very comfy. We made it feel

27:16

homie. You brought out your cocktail

27:18

skills again, which you hadn't used in a

27:20

while. Yeah, I was just I was drained.

27:23

I was doing rodeo after rodeo to rodeo and

27:25

that was that was so great though, Like one night, one

27:28

of the first or second nights that kindles with us and you're

27:30

like, who wants cocktails and we're both like,

27:32

yeah right, yeah,

27:35

but telling about cocktails. Um, you know, we

27:38

really got to have our fair

27:40

share in Rapid City. Yeah, we definitely did.

27:42

We drink it up. I love Rapids. So

27:44

this was my I think third time in

27:46

Rapid City. I was here first as

27:48

part of a work trip, which I talked about in the bad Lands

27:50

episode, and that's what swept me up with this whole part

27:52

of the state, for a part of the country and how

27:55

much I love it and endure it. And then

27:57

I was here again on my own only passing

27:59

through a kind of reacquainting myself

28:01

with this wonderful little city in western South

28:04

Dakota. And then this

28:06

I was super excited about because I got to experience

28:08

it with you and with Kendall and

28:10

then go back to some of my favorite spots here as

28:12

well as do some new things and go to some new

28:14

places, like that place that we got to go to, that

28:17

that mini golf at Pirates Cove, Pirates

28:19

Cope, So yeah, I was super excited. I remember

28:21

driving by and seeing a Pirate's code minting golf and I'm

28:24

like, well, we need to do that. Because I

28:26

grew up there was like a Pirate's Coast somewhere in New

28:28

Hampshire where I grew up, and for me, it's

28:30

always been like the quintessential mini

28:33

golf course. So I knew that there were kind

28:35

of a chain, like a national chain, but not

28:37

super ubiquitous so they're kind of hard to

28:39

find. So it would have been the same one,

28:42

I mean different, it's not identical, but like the

28:44

sam I guess style and

28:47

challenge level and whatnot. That's awesome and it

28:49

was great. It was a lot of fun, and

28:52

I mean I didn't do well I did worse than I thought,

28:54

But in spite of that, it was great.

28:56

Kendall one and he never plays mini golf. So

28:59

and this are park that we stayed at, that was only

29:01

for like a day, right, it was a couple of couple

29:03

of nights, I think, but we didn't spend much time there

29:05

because obviously we're off doing stuff during the day. Yeah,

29:08

it was two nights because we went

29:10

there, we went mini golfing and

29:12

that kind of stuff. But then we went to like Mount

29:14

Rushmore and Crazy Horse and

29:16

then came back to that, and so we got

29:18

to do a lot in Rapid City. So I

29:21

remember the Hotel Alex Johnson like

29:23

rooftop bar. Yes, that's my favorite. So

29:26

that hotel is just great.

29:28

It's historic, it's the most historic hotel

29:31

in town. It's also huge. It's

29:33

like one of the top one of the taller, if not the tallest

29:35

building in Rapid City. So it stands out, has

29:37

this big iconic like Alex Alex

29:39

Johnson's sign on top of it,

29:42

hard to miss. And they have really

29:44

good drinks up there too, at the at

29:46

the bar, and there's a substantial indoor section

29:49

and then also two different patio

29:51

decks there's one like on the second

29:53

like even above the main bar. So it was

29:56

beautiful patio we

29:58

did. Yeah, and they have like little fire pits if a gets

30:00

chilly, but we were perfect. It was like the perfect

30:02

like late afternoon, early evening. What was that

30:05

cocktail that you've got? So my favorite

30:07

thing to get there, which I've had a few times at this point,

30:09

is the ye Old Manhattan And

30:11

it's called that because it's a cross between a Manhattan

30:14

and an old Fashioned so elements

30:16

of like both of my favorite drinks with like bourbon

30:18

and blood, orange liquor, vermouth, bitters

30:21

and then cinnamons here, which really makes it. Yeah.

30:24

Well that was just like a perfect little spot to chill

30:26

for a couple of minutes. And we love when we're in

30:29

new cities to just grab a cocktail

30:31

and a snack and bends around, jump around. Yeah,

30:33

and we got snacks there. But um,

30:35

by the way, yeah, this hotel is allegedly haunted.

30:38

I don't think I told her that while we're there, because I didn't want

30:40

to frighten you, but um,

30:42

um, you would just care yourself. Yeah,

30:44

I would probably just scare myself. But when I

30:47

so I stayed here I spent a night here like in two

30:49

sixteen by myself, and that's

30:52

when I learned about it, and I was I learned about

30:54

it like the night I was checking in, and I'm like, wow, I wish

30:57

you wouldn't have told me that, and I'm not gonna be able to sleep. But

31:00

I think there's like one specific floor that's supposedly

31:02

the haunted floor, and there's

31:05

been like hotel staff

31:07

that have like heard things late at night

31:09

and like run off the floor, and I'm like, what that's

31:12

that's dreadful. So

31:14

I was like on pins and needles when I was sleeping here

31:16

and listening for any noises

31:18

or like creeks or you know, footsteps

31:20

running down the hall or anything like that. It's

31:23

okay, I was, I'm coming,

31:26

I know coming. I

31:28

wind up being fine. Did

31:30

you hear that in the background? No? I

31:32

didn't. Okay, that's what perfectly

31:35

fine now. But then we jumped to that little like coffee

31:37

shop because after the cocktail during the day,

31:39

you gotta jump over to the cock cocktail

31:43

shops coffee shops, um,

31:45

which would be like what was called Harriet

31:47

and Harriet and Oak. Yes, that's to that

31:49

place. Yeah, so cool, inside

31:51

the building was so cool because there was that VW

31:53

van parked inside. I'm like, oh home,

31:56

yeah, and you can just go in and sit in it. Let's

31:58

go, let's go hang out. It's pretty awesome. And they have great

32:00

food, like really impressive snacks and

32:03

dishes and stuff, like I had like

32:05

a keen Wab breakfast ball here one time

32:07

I was visiting. And then they have like really interesting pastries

32:10

and like burritos,

32:12

and then like wonderful coffee

32:14

drinks and lattet and like I think they have Taie coffee,

32:16

which is my favorite thing. I cannot not

32:18

get that would embrace it. And a lofted second

32:21

floor. Yeah, it's really spacious, Like yeah,

32:23

it was really open, great for a plan, lots

32:25

of like creative space.

32:27

It would be a great place to work while you're like you

32:30

know, traveling through. Yes, agreed.

32:32

And then after this we literally just walked

32:34

to the end of the block to see the brand

32:36

new President Obama statue,

32:39

which they with the city erected. So Rapid City

32:41

is known for these presidential statues.

32:44

Every president has

32:46

some specific statue like position

32:49

somewhere in town in the downtown area on like

32:51

a different intersection and so it

32:53

was a big deal for the Obama

32:55

unveiling, which had only happened like a few weeks prior

32:58

to us being here. So the timing was great and

33:00

this one was awesome. So the Obama statue shows him

33:03

holding hands with Sasha Obama

33:05

when she was much younger than she

33:07

currently is. Yeah, because that was that kind of image

33:09

when he walked on on stage for his presidential

33:11

like acceptance speech. Right, So

33:14

it's beautiful, like, um,

33:16

it's a really good statue, one that memorialized

33:20

his presidency. Yeah, I

33:22

loved it. And then I think from here we continued

33:25

to wander and we wind up having dinner at this

33:27

restaurant called cole Ko. L

33:30

loved it again. I had been here before, and

33:32

I loved it and wanted to go back with you guys,

33:35

And it was wonderful. It's like a very modern

33:38

stylish restaurant with like wood fired

33:40

food and great cocktails and snacks

33:42

and stuff. And we had amazing old

33:45

fashioned here as well. I remember Kendall

33:47

he was like, how do you make your old

33:49

fashions? Because you know, when you're traveling you

33:52

have to ask because if you start

33:54

to say muddled, I'm not getting

33:56

it. The beer and then she

33:58

was like, oh, yeah, we do this and this. It was like perfect.

34:01

So they know how to make their old fashions.

34:03

Their cocktails are not like outdated,

34:06

which is nice. With a perfect spared

34:08

ice, I think they'd like spears, which

34:11

I did love to see that. Yeah, that's a

34:13

good sign. Any big ice so that way doesn't

34:15

melt and water down your drink.

34:18

Right. Yeah, So that was awesome, great

34:20

time in Rapid City. And you

34:23

like, on your work trip, you did

34:25

much more than what we got to

34:27

do. Um, So what were a couple of those things?

34:30

Well, I also went to when

34:32

I was here from my work trip, I had dinner at Cole and then

34:34

I went around the Cordinage to this arcade

34:36

bar at the Subterranean Arcade Bar, which is

34:38

a blast obviously. Why yeah,

34:41

I don't know. I think I mentioned it, you guys just didn't

34:44

acknowledge me. Um.

34:46

And then also I went to this place, Firehouse

34:48

Brewing, which is like one of the

34:50

oldest brewpubs in the state, if not the oldest,

34:53

just delicious. It's in this whole kind of fire depot.

34:56

Really great beers and like kind of local

34:59

food you can get like bison burgers and

35:01

stuff like that, really solid

35:03

and great, great vibe. And then I also

35:05

loved the Journey Museum and Learning Center,

35:08

which was this really immersive and incredible

35:10

like Native American museum,

35:13

and I would love to go back

35:15

there, and I could spend hours and hours there. There was so

35:17

much to see and exhibits you could wander through,

35:19

just learning about the history of the Native people so to the

35:21

area of the Dakotas and

35:24

because I mean, that's that's what this land

35:26

was was built on, and that's what the South Dakota

35:28

is known for, and it's you see it

35:30

everywhere. So it's nice to see it honored

35:33

in this way and in a beautiful venue like

35:35

this. So we next time we're passing through, we'll

35:37

have to go back there. We'll have more time, that's for sure,

35:39

because we'll be rushing across the country.

35:42

Well now we're gonna take a quick break. When

35:44

we come back, we'll talk to Mike Wilds,

35:47

Jewel Caves, Chief of Research

35:49

Management. Hi,

35:59

I'm Matt and I Brad. This is park Landia

36:01

and today we're talking about Joe Cave National Monument

36:04

in South Dakota. We are excited

36:06

to have our first park ranger on

36:08

today and that is Mike Wild's

36:10

Jewel Cave's Chief of Resource

36:12

Management. Mike spoke to us over the phone,

36:15

UM from the offices in Jewel Cave

36:17

National Monument. So

36:19

your title is chief of Resource Management.

36:22

Could you explain to us what that means. That

36:25

means I oversee all the resource

36:27

management, both cultural and natural,

36:31

um, including our museum

36:33

collection and whether

36:37

and that includes things that are

36:39

on the surface down in the cave, whether

36:42

it's veget management, you

36:44

know, exotic plant management,

36:46

or cave exploration or um

36:50

scientific research, kind of the

36:52

whole gamlet of things, right. I

36:54

mean it's only the second longest longest

36:56

cave in America, so that's not a big

36:59

that's a big job at all, right, and

37:03

the third longest in the world. Yeah, amazing,

37:06

Yeah, it's truly fascinating, and that's why

37:08

we loved U coming to do Cave National

37:11

Monument this year. UM.

37:13

So when we were talking, Matt

37:16

and I, we were just like, this is such an amazing

37:19

opportunity to talk with like a real

37:21

life park ground where because um,

37:24

we are you're like our rock stars, and

37:28

and really because just what you know

37:31

this environment needs is just more people to protect

37:33

it, UM, and so we want to be better allies

37:35

to that. And one thing that we've

37:37

seen is we've heard that

37:39

you've toured quite

37:42

a bit of the caves yourself, Like how far

37:44

ahead in the caves have you explored, UM,

37:46

and what have you've learned about the place through

37:48

your exploration? Oh boy? UM.

37:51

Well, first of all, we referred to it as

37:53

a cave, not not in the

37:55

plural um. Although it's

37:57

a very big cave system. We've

38:00

two hundred and eight miles right now, and

38:03

um back in fifty nine

38:05

we only had about two miles. So

38:08

all of this has happened in the last

38:10

several decades. Um.

38:12

It's it's gone from being a very

38:15

small cave that people

38:17

some people thought should be closed because

38:19

it didn't really live up to park service standards,

38:22

to being a very

38:24

well known world class cave. So

38:28

I got involved in it back

38:30

around nine,

38:32

I believe possibly the

38:35

year before for a couple of trips,

38:37

and um

38:40

Um gradually became

38:42

interested in it. Um

38:45

contacted Herb and jan Con who

38:47

are the explorers at the time, and

38:49

they invited me in to accompany

38:52

them, and I became a kind

38:54

of that I kind of became the person that they

38:56

were looking for to take over, and

38:59

they were my mentor is for a couple of years,

39:02

and uh so I

39:04

followed in their footsteps with day

39:07

day trips that lasted oh

39:09

ten to twelve hours. And as

39:11

we continued exploring, they

39:14

we got far learned further out and it turned into

39:16

fourteen and sixteen and eighteen

39:19

hour trips. The

39:21

distance to the far end

39:23

of the cave for me at

39:25

that time, if you were to go straight

39:27

to the end of the cave, was about

39:30

ten hours before

39:32

that. Before that, we ever, we never

39:35

went all the way out. Before

39:37

we had established a camp that was only like

39:39

seven or eight hours in UM

39:42

and then like the next morning

39:44

we would go out and another

39:47

three hours to get to the end of the cave.

39:49

The people that are exploring now, a

39:52

whole younger generation, are

39:54

kind of going off in the opposite end of

39:56

the cave, and I think

39:58

it's taken close to uh

40:01

if they were to go to the very end,

40:03

it's over twelve hours UM.

40:05

But they've got camps along the

40:07

way so that they can um

40:10

stage their efforts. The

40:12

whole thing is underneath four square

40:14

miles, so it

40:16

just kind of winds around. It's amazed

40:20

in three dimensions, and so

40:22

the some of all those different

40:25

sections of passages at all those levels

40:28

totals to be two hundred and eight

40:30

miles UM. So

40:33

that'll give you a little bit of an idea

40:35

of the framework that we're weighing in uh

40:38

lots of mileage UM,

40:40

but it's all underneath a fairly

40:42

small area UM.

40:45

And I think over the years,

40:47

when we average our our

40:49

rate of progress in the cave,

40:53

I mean for our actual travel, where

40:55

it's usually averages out to be about a mile

40:58

an hour. Wow. Wow,

41:00

I mean I had no idea about that. That was all

41:02

within like fourst square miles.

41:05

Jewel Cave has a barometric wind and

41:09

that means that it responds to pressure

41:11

changes outside. Yea,

41:13

the pressure drops one percent, about one

41:15

percent of the total volume of cave,

41:18

including the park that hasn't been discovered,

41:21

will blow out. So you can

41:23

measure what the one percent is and

41:25

you can protect protect you

41:27

can predict the volume that

41:29

including the part that hasn't been discovered,

41:32

and based on these estimates, which

41:35

are much more involved than what I

41:37

just described, UM,

41:39

we've only discovered three percent of the cave,

41:42

so by far most of it

41:44

is still out there. To be discovered, and I think

41:46

that's one of the one of the factors

41:49

that really ignites our imagination. Um,

41:52

you know, we none of us will

41:54

ever get out to the end of the cave because

41:57

it's so much bigger than than we can

42:00

in a generation's time. And right

42:02

now we're on a third generation of exploration.

42:05

And you've only been doing this for forty years. So

42:10

I was actively exploring

42:12

for thirty of those forty years and not

42:14

the not the last ten. And

42:17

uh in this younger, younger

42:19

crew has been doing most of the work in

42:21

the last ten years. Well, that's incredible.

42:24

So I was just wondering, like, what are

42:27

some of the biggest struggles or

42:29

challenges of caving when you're that deep

42:31

into the earth like that? Well,

42:34

um, I think it's the sure

42:37

duration of travel to

42:40

get out to the end. Um

42:43

Even Mammoth Cave has

42:45

so many entrances that it's

42:47

only like three or four hours from any

42:50

given entrance to get to the end of

42:52

the cave there, and that

42:55

puts a different perspective on things.

42:58

I'll say that, at least for me, and I think

43:00

for most of the others that as

43:03

we become familiar with the

43:05

cave. We learn all the

43:08

learn how to maneuver through all the

43:10

little climbs and the

43:12

crawls and the twists and the turns.

43:14

There's a lot of unique moves that you've got

43:16

to learn. And once

43:18

you've learned it well, it becomes

43:21

almost automatic. And it's

43:24

it's so much fun to just

43:26

have that self confidence to know how

43:28

to step across this rock and then slide

43:30

over to uh this

43:33

wall, and then clamber up into

43:35

a hole

43:38

on a ledge and then through that. Um.

43:42

And I think most of the cavers have

43:45

developed this appreciation for the

43:47

journey itself, so they're

43:50

got exploring to find all

43:52

that unknown stuff out there that we know must

43:54

be there because of the wind. But

43:58

we and and that

44:00

that's the reason we go, and

44:03

we and sometimes we wish we didn't have to make the

44:05

long journey, but I think most of us

44:07

have come to grips with the journey is

44:09

half the fun o UM.

44:12

The other thing is in Jewel

44:14

Cave, we don't have streams of rivers

44:17

that could carry away human

44:19

waste or that could regenerate

44:22

impacts after a flood because

44:25

of a flooding or something like that, So

44:27

we have to carry out all of our our wastes,

44:29

all of our garbage, all of our human

44:32

waste, and that

44:35

that's kind of hard to you. So you uh,

44:37

um, like

44:40

when you peep be into a bottle and then you've

44:42

got to carry out all those bottles and they

44:44

weigh about two pounds per quarts and

44:47

you've got a lot of courts that you that

44:50

you have to haul out. That's a lot of a

44:52

lot of extra weight that really would

44:55

rather not have to deal with. Yeah, that's super

44:57

important because of the ecosystem.

45:00

You don't want to change that.

45:02

Yeah, if there was a

45:04

stream there, then at least

45:07

at least for for peeing, that

45:09

would be minor. You know, you'll get deluded.

45:11

I mean, animals do that outdoors,

45:14

it's no big deal. Um, but

45:16

we don't have that, and so we can't

45:18

just stash um

45:20

these things away someplace and hope they'll

45:22

go away, because they never will. Wow,

45:25

that is absolutely fascinating. I mean, just

45:27

because we've never been truly

45:29

caving. Urban jan seemed like they've

45:31

made a huge impact on your life. And we talked

45:34

about them early in the episode and some of their

45:36

recreation. But the beauty of it

45:38

is how it gets passed down from generation

45:40

to generation because truly,

45:44

truly, truly that what

45:46

they did. The cave is in

45:48

in in real pragmatic terms,

45:51

is just a hole in the ground, and it can

45:53

be dangerous if you're not prepared. I'm

45:55

not trying to say there's no risk at all, but

45:58

the attitude that they passed

46:00

down as far as caring for the

46:03

cave, as far as respecting it,

46:05

having fun while you're in there,

46:07

um, really kind of a lighthearted,

46:11

satisfying spin. Um.

46:14

They passed that attitude down to me

46:17

and to the younger the younger

46:19

folks now and that

46:22

our attitude toward the cave really

46:24

does make the difference. And um

46:26

we owe that to herban Jan. Yeah,

46:28

that's really cool because I know, like just personally

46:31

and from talking with people, caves

46:33

can you know potentially how the stigma of being

46:36

terrifying claustrophobic places, And

46:39

it's really inspiring to see that

46:41

stigma be kind of broken down a little bit

46:44

and

46:47

I think it makes it safer. Um,

46:50

you can't. You always have to be aware

46:52

that this is a potentially dangerous place,

46:54

but it all it almost all

46:56

hinges on you if you have

46:58

the right attitude, if you're in good caving

47:01

shape, if you're prepared the way you should be,

47:03

if you're working together as a team,

47:06

then it's that you

47:08

know, one of the questions you have is what

47:10

do I really want people to know? And it's

47:12

that it doesn't have to be this

47:15

dangerous, um scary place

47:17

at all. Yeah, and that's great that, like

47:19

I think that motivates and further inspires us

47:22

and does likewise for listeners

47:24

and people who are potentially considering

47:26

visiting caves, whether it's for the first time

47:29

or return trips or anything.

47:31

I love that mindset. It's really set.

47:36

How does one specifically get into caving

47:38

nowadays? The

47:40

best way is to go caving with a friend

47:43

who already does that, um

47:46

and then the other. Then the next thing is

47:49

uh. The National Speleological

47:51

Society is probably the

47:54

main caving organization in

47:56

this country, and they have local

47:59

chapters, not you know, not in every town,

48:01

but wherever cavers have gotten organized

48:03

and become part of

48:06

the nss UM,

48:09

then then they've they've established

48:11

clubs that you can go to the meetings

48:13

and see slide shows and get

48:15

to know people and go

48:18

on planet trips starting from

48:20

easy ones and and if

48:22

you really really like it, graduating onto

48:25

very difficult caving trips,

48:27

like what did what your you to Jewel

48:29

Cave? And like what do you find

48:32

personally fascinating about Jewel Cave specifically

48:34

when you first started, When I first started.

48:38

I first started as a

48:40

result of sitting in on

48:43

a a slide presentation

48:45

given by Herb and jan They're very

48:48

mild mannered, UM, unassuming

48:51

people. Her passed away several years ago.

48:53

Janney is still alive in her mid nineties.

48:56

UM. And they had a way of making

48:59

this high idea of exploring expert

49:01

exploring a cave, UM

49:04

making it fun and friendly rather

49:06

than daring and dangerous and

49:09

UM and a lot of people do kind of

49:12

view it and treat it as

49:15

daring and dangerous. But for

49:17

them and for me, it was fun. And

49:20

I think a lot of it was just that fun,

49:23

that sense of fun that you could UM

49:26

be involved in, the sense of

49:28

the unexpected, of not knowing what's

49:30

around the next corner, and UM

49:33

wondering how far it goes

49:35

and and even why why does it stop

49:37

here? You have a nice big passage and

49:39

it just stops, and you

49:42

wanted to go You wanted to go on forever.

49:45

When I UM started caving.

49:47

I really didn't know what I wanted

49:49

to do with my life. I was in

49:51

school, I was um to get

49:54

a mass attempt to get a bachelor's

49:56

and chemical engineering, but I wasn't

49:58

ready for the world. And as I interviewed with

50:00

the companies, it was obvious to them that

50:02

I wasn't ready either. But

50:04

I had gotten involved in this caving thing,

50:06

and I really wasn't sure what

50:09

I wanted to do with my life. UM.

50:12

The caving part really brought

50:14

me in. That gave me experience

50:18

and expertise that led me

50:20

me to be a tour guide at

50:22

Jewel Cave. And then as

50:24

time went on, UM the Park

50:27

created a cave management

50:29

position and I applied for

50:31

and got that that job as the

50:34

cave Specialist UM.

50:36

And then as time went on, I went back

50:38

to school and I got a masters

50:40

in geological engineering with kind of an emphasis

50:43

on hydrology. And that

50:46

opened doors for me to be

50:48

more involved with the kinds of projects

50:50

that are going on here, going on here,

50:52

and and leading some of those

50:55

projects too. We're a

50:57

small park, we have a small staff,

50:59

so we all have to wear many hats, and

51:02

so as the years went by, I

51:04

ended up expanding my role

51:07

or my role became expanded to

51:09

dealing with UM UH like

51:12

I mentioned earlier, exotic plant

51:14

management, consulting on a

51:16

highway UH project

51:18

that was going through the park, UM

51:22

doing UM handling

51:24

the research whether it's UH,

51:27

I don't do all the research, but still guiding

51:29

UH the research and trying to bring

51:32

in the studies for

51:35

UM. Like for instance,

51:37

five years ago, the the

51:40

Caver's discovered begans discovering lakes

51:42

where the cave u UH

51:45

intercepts the water table, and that's

51:47

given me an opportunity to be a

51:49

co author with the U S g S and

51:52

UM. So I was this young

51:54

kid who didn't know what he wanted to do,

51:57

and now I've been I'm able to

51:59

do all this wide range

52:01

of stuff UM even working with our

52:03

museum collection and even a little

52:05

bit of travel consultation, which UM,

52:08

if you knew me, you would say that

52:10

doesn't sound like Mike at all. UM.

52:12

But it's really expanded my horizons

52:16

and I'm able to do so

52:18

many more things than I ever even

52:20

dreamed of because this

52:22

caving thing kind of brought

52:26

me into it brought me into a place

52:28

that ultimately lead to UM

52:31

all these other things and

52:33

you know, I think my heart is still with the Cave,

52:37

but I enjoy what I'm doing in all

52:39

these aspects, speechless,

52:41

like, very

52:44

inspiring, really cool to hear. I

52:46

just love that there's that much passion in people

52:48

who are protecting, preserving, discovering

52:51

our national parks. And

52:53

so we're especially excited to speak with you today,

52:55

Mike Wiles, Thank you so much. Hi,

53:13

I'm Matt and I'm Brad. This is park Landia

53:15

and today we're talking about Joel Cave National Monument

53:18

in South Dakota ecology,

53:21

and we're introducing our ecological

53:23

concept of disease because within

53:25

cave systems um there's

53:27

definitely a lot of different

53:29

particulars, but diseases

53:32

is definitely important to

53:35

our ecosystem in multiple

53:37

ways, right, And it's a little more

53:39

complex or a lot more complex than

53:42

one might have seen about disease. So

53:45

populations within an ecosystem are always

53:47

fluctuating, and one thing that can really affect

53:49

an ecosism is disease, even in

53:51

just one species. Ecologists

53:53

have only recently begun to realize that disease

53:56

is actually an integral part of an

53:58

ecosystem, and fact, there's all entire

54:01

field of disease ecology, like

54:03

the study of diseases. Uh, and

54:05

that's pretty hot right now, pretty hot.

54:07

Yeah, But just because disease is natural,

54:09

that doesn't mean their influence doesn't occasionally

54:12

lead to spectacular die offs either, and

54:14

that the effects of disease in an ecosystem

54:17

isn't hard to watch. Yeah. Like take,

54:19

for instance, white nose syndrome,

54:22

which is killed millions of bats in North America

54:25

since it was first identified in two thousand and six.

54:28

White nose syndrome is actually a fungus

54:30

that grows in cool, damp places

54:32

like caves. Yeah, and it

54:35

infects bats while they're hibernating,

54:37

leaving a white fuss in their faces, and

54:39

it changes the bat's behavior, waking them

54:41

up from hibernation and sometimes making them

54:44

do weird stuff like fly outside

54:46

the cave in the daytime in the middle of winter,

54:48

which is not what they should be doing. Which it kills

54:50

the bats by making it difficult to hibernate,

54:53

which burns through a lot of fat reserves

54:56

that keep them alive until the summer, kind

54:58

of like bears, right, And this results

55:00

in the collapse of entire colonies of

55:02

bats, which are really important members of

55:04

cave communities because the iguana

55:06

is a main source of food for species that only

55:09

live in caves. A white nose syndrome was

55:11

first identified in caves around Albany, New

55:13

York. Um. The fungus has been steadily

55:15

moving across the US. Uh.

55:17

It was just to ever to have infected Jewel Cave in about

55:21

um in the long

55:23

legged bats that live there, right,

55:26

So the National Park Service is working to reduce

55:28

the risk of infection in bats here.

55:31

And the National Park Service has been dealing

55:33

with white nose syndrome and other cave systems

55:35

that we've talked about, like Mammoth Cave in

55:37

carls By Caverns by making sure visitors

55:40

are educated about what white

55:42

nose syndrome, which includes

55:44

letting them know that they should stay out of caves

55:46

and other bat habitats like mines,

55:48

and alert of federal or state wildlife

55:51

agency if you see a bat flying around in

55:53

daylight or when it's cold outside. Yeah.

55:55

The Park Services also asking visitors to

55:57

decontaminate their caving and hiking gear

56:00

before entering any cave. Yeah,

56:02

keep everything sanitized

56:04

or not like, you know, bringing disease into

56:07

unaffected caves or anything like that and

56:09

although white nose syndrome and other diseases

56:11

like the kitch red fungus that's decimating

56:13

frog and salamander populations all over the world,

56:16

it's important to remember that disease is a normal

56:19

and important aspect of ecosystems.

56:21

Yeah, and the case of like white nose syndrome,

56:23

human involvement in caves has probably

56:26

sped up the spread of it, but

56:28

some reachers even think it's on the rise.

56:30

Uh. Might not been brought by human driven

56:33

climate change, but change

56:36

in ecosystems is inevitable, so

56:38

it's good to acknowledge that disease is

56:41

an important driver of changeing itself.

56:44

Yeah. So when like visiting caves, you know, you really

56:46

want to make sure that you are helping protect

56:48

the bats by cleaning your equipment, in your

56:50

shoes and your your gear, because

56:53

we don't want them to disappear

56:55

or go away. No, definitely,

56:57

And if you've worn shoes in another

56:59

case cave on another tour somewhere, be

57:02

mindful of that and don't wear those same shoes

57:04

into jewel cave because better safe

57:06

than sorry. And you know you've got to keep

57:09

the bat safe. My

57:13

favorite, but I think it's the perfect

57:15

time to wrap things up with Jewel

57:17

Cave National monument Um.

57:20

Let's share what our favorite part

57:22

of this national monument is. I

57:24

think for me it was mostly

57:26

about learning some of the most incredible facts

57:29

I've ever learned at a National Park site.

57:31

And that includes the

57:33

fact that Jewel Cave is a breathing cave. I had never

57:35

heard that term before. Not only was it fascinating

57:38

to learn about, but it also just felt felt

57:40

great physically InCred to be that big,

57:43

to be breathing like that. And then also the

57:46

Jewel Cave like dancing club thing,

57:48

I think is absurd

57:51

and wonderful, and I love

57:54

people like whoever

57:56

like a local like restaurant

57:59

business like Jewel

58:01

Cave dancing club, like do it, get

58:03

it, let's have fun with it. I

58:06

really admire the audacity

58:08

of the two of like the

58:11

cave discoverers, who wanted to create

58:13

this dancing club in a cave. It's outrageous

58:16

and beautiful, just very creative.

58:18

You know, um it didn't work out marketing

58:21

and it's finest yeah yeah,

58:23

true. So this place is just filled

58:25

with that and you learned about on the tour and in the visitor

58:27

center, and I walked away

58:31

feeling so informed and

58:33

delighted and it was really fun.

58:35

So I would say that type

58:37

of stuff was my favorite part about Jewel

58:40

Cave. And there's definitely a couple

58:42

of things that you need to bring, yeah, for

58:44

sure. So if we're going to Juel

58:46

Cave and you're presumably doing a cave

58:48

tour because you need to there, you

58:50

know you got to do that. What do

58:52

you bring it every cave tour or any

58:55

every cave it's pretty much across the lay

58:57

layers, yes, because

59:00

like we said, it's about four dan degrees, it's chili.

59:03

It might it might feel good if you're going there in the dead

59:05

of summer, but still like bring some

59:07

light layers. At least you want to be comfortable

59:09

in there, because you do spend a good amount of time on

59:11

the cave tours, even the shortest cave tours for like an hour

59:13

and a half, so you're gonna want to

59:15

make sure that you're you're not freezing. And

59:17

I swear we're going to take this again, is at

59:20

least one liter of water? Bring

59:22

water? Bring I mean obviously

59:24

any physical activity, but again it kind of

59:26

you're doing you're going up

59:28

and down stairs you're squeezing the passageways.

59:31

It's more exhausting than

59:33

you might think initially, so be

59:35

prepared for that. Also, the proper footwear,

59:38

shoes or boots with good firm

59:40

grip, because the

59:42

surfaces are very uneven to the least, and

59:45

you don't want to be slipping and sliding and like crashing

59:48

into walls or banging your head on the ceiling or anything

59:50

like that. So yeah, definitely not. Whatever you

59:52

can do to come in physically

59:54

prepared and comfortable is

59:56

is really pivotal here now

59:59

between the talk of jewel, the singer,

1:00:01

snow white whiskey, and shimmering

1:00:03

crystals, I'd say this episode has been

1:00:06

a huge success. Yes,

1:00:08

absolutely. I mean it's fitting because Juel

1:00:11

Cave National Monument is a gem

1:00:13

in the National Park Service. Yeah, nicely said,

1:00:16

a literal gem.

1:00:19

You've been listening to park Landia, a show about

1:00:21

National parks. PARKLANDI into production

1:00:23

of My Heart Radio, created by Matt Carouac,

1:00:26

Brad Caro Wak and Christopher has The otis

1:00:28

produced and edited by Mike John's. Our executive

1:00:30

producer is Christopher hasiotis our researcher.

1:00:33

It's Jescelyn Shield, a special things goes

1:00:35

out to Gabrielle Collins, Christal Waters

1:00:37

and the rest of the Parklandia crew, and hey

1:00:40

listeners, if you're enjoying the show, leave

1:00:42

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