0:00

Guess what, mango, what's that? Will? Have you

0:02

heard about this secret library that's in Syria?

0:05

What is it? Well, hiding below the

0:07

town of Darrayah, which is this suburb

0:09

of Damascus, there's a library of over

0:11

fourteen thousand books. Is

0:13

he During the terrible siege of the area, people have

0:16

gone into homes and the buildings that were

0:18

damaged by all these attacks, and they've

0:20

managed to retrieve these books to keep in

0:22

this library. I mean, it's been

0:24

such a heartbreaking situation there for years

0:26

now, but visitors to the library have found

0:29

at least a temporary escape from the devastation

0:32

by coming down there to browse the shelves

0:34

and and just read for a bit. As

0:36

one visitor told the BBC, and as

0:38

since the library gave me back my life,

0:41

I would say, just like the body needs food,

0:43

the soul needs books. That's incredible,

0:46

it really is. And while this is obviously an

0:48

extreme example, it's it's amazing how

0:50

libraries have served as an escape for people

0:53

for so long now, and how they've been

0:55

a place for self improvement and community

0:57

and entertainment for so many And

1:00

that guy is thinking, how did the modern library

1:02

come to be? And how our libraries evolving,

1:05

So that's what we're talking about today. Let's dive

1:07

in either

1:26

podcast listeners. Well, from the part time genius,

1:28

I'm Will Pearson and as always I'm joined by my good

1:30

friend Man Guesh I Ticketer and on the other

1:32

side of the soundproof class still on the run from

1:34

library funds that are way way

1:36

overdue. What did he say? It's been like seven

1:39

seven years. That's our friend and producer

1:41

Tristan McNeil. All right, well, Mengo,

1:43

before we get into the episode, we've had more

1:45

than one listener asked if I was actually

1:47

saying your name correctly, and the answer

1:50

is yes, So there's enough to that. I mean, I've

1:52

known you for more than twenty years now, so

1:54

I feel like it's kind of like when you

1:56

know, kids just say a name for a grandparent,

1:58

you have to accept like that it's what it is. So if

2:01

they say mamma, it's in fact, Should I just

2:03

call you mammal? Is that work? Anyway?

2:05

We've had some requests for you to say your own

2:07

name, so let's just go ahead and do this. You want

2:09

to go for it, and the listeners will know how bad

2:11

I am at saying your name sure, it's it's

2:14

pronounced Kyle Jones really all

2:16

this time. Okay,

2:19

So there it is, And I wanted to actually let you know that

2:21

you're saying my name incorrectly because in the part

2:23

of Alabama where I'm from, it's pronounced wheel.

2:26

So now we both know. Alright.

2:28

Well, back to Tristan's late fees and things

2:31

that are long overdue. Today, we're

2:33

finally getting into a topic we wanted to cover

2:35

for a while now, and that's libraries.

2:38

Yeah. So you and I have learned so much throughout our

2:40

lives thanks to libraries, and we really wanted

2:42

to kind of return the favor by higlighting the

2:44

best facts and stories about them we could

2:46

find. Alright, so mego. You mentioned

2:48

that you sort of feel indebted to libraries

2:51

for being such a helpful resource over the

2:53

years, and of course Tristan and many

2:55

others are indebted in a different kind of way. But

2:57

one thing that's become clear for me over the years,

3:00

especially working on this episode, is that pretty

3:02

much everyone feels that way about libraries.

3:05

In fact, to get specific, a full percent

3:08

of Americans they just sixteen and older, say

3:10

that public libraries are important to their

3:12

communities and that those communities would

3:14

be negatively impacted if libraries

3:17

were to close down, as at least according

3:19

to a two thousand thirteen study from the Pew

3:21

Research Center. Wow, so it's

3:23

honestly a little surprisingly hear that the approval

3:26

numbers are that high for libraries. I

3:28

mean, maybe it's just me, but I tend to think of

3:30

them as being in the same boat as like, I don't

3:32

know, the postal system. You know, it's

3:34

this like long running public institution

3:36

that's become a little more

3:39

ignored in the digital edge. Yeah,

3:41

well that's the thing. I mean, the number of people who

3:43

approve of libraries and theory is significantly

3:45

higher than the number of people who actually use

3:48

them. So even though of citizens

3:50

felt libraries were good for their communities,

3:53

only about fifty three percent had actually

3:55

visited a library or bookmobile in the

3:57

last twelve months. So, I mean,

3:59

I do feel like if half a population is

4:01

using a largely government funded resource

4:04

like that, it's it's really not that bad. Though

4:06

the visitor account has fallen further since

4:08

two thousand thirteen, when Pew published

4:11

another library study. Just last year,

4:13

the number of people who had visited a physical library

4:15

in the past twelve months had fallen to about

4:18

forty four percent, and has

4:20

the popularity of libraries also dropped

4:22

since two thousand team No, I mean that's

4:24

the craziest part. So Pew asked the same question

4:26

about community impact in two thousand fifteen

4:29

and found that public support for libraries

4:31

had remained at that same sky high

4:33

level, which is great, but it does raise the

4:35

question if if just about everyone considers

4:38

libraries to be a valuable resource, why

4:41

do we find fewer people using them?

4:43

Yeah. So I actually did some digging on that,

4:45

and at first it seemed like the reason for the decline

4:47

and visitors was, you know, due to technology

4:50

and these technological shifts and

4:52

maybe like this growing preference for e readers

4:55

and tablets. Yeah, and and that was the PEWS

4:57

takeaway as well. But I guess you're saying there's something

4:59

else might be at play here as well. Yeah. So, there's

5:01

this independent federal agency called the Institute

5:04

of Museum and Library Services, it's i MLS,

5:06

and every other year it surveys libraries

5:09

all over the country to get a better sense of how

5:11

things are going in the industry. And one

5:13

thing that the agency shows is that

5:15

the revenues for libraries started dropping

5:17

during the Great Recession in two thousand nine and

5:20

have continued to decline ever since. And

5:22

this revenue is like this money from late fees and book

5:24

sales or what are we talking about here? Yeah,

5:27

I mean that's part of it, but most of the revenue

5:29

lasses due to budget cuts from local and state governments

5:31

and whenever they need to drum up more cash

5:33

for public projects, libraries are just an easy

5:36

target. And so how does that relate to fewer

5:38

people visiting the library? Well,

5:40

the i MLS puts it this way, and their report

5:42

from two thousand twelve quote we

5:45

found that as investments such as

5:47

revenue, staffing, and programs increased,

5:50

so did critical use measures such as visitation

5:52

and circulation. In the same way,

5:54

as investments were reduced, mostly in reaction

5:57

to post recessionary budgetary reductions,

6:00

we saw decreases in library use. So

6:02

basically, the better funded to the library is

6:05

the more people use it, which actually makes

6:07

a lot of sense, right, I mean, more money

6:09

means more staff members and longer hours,

6:11

newer computers, not to mention more Harry

6:14

Potter books on the shelves. So while libraries

6:16

do stand a benefit from better publicizing things

6:18

like their e book lending programs, which

6:20

I think something like of libraries

6:23

offer. Now, if we really want

6:25

them to live up to their full potential, then I

6:27

guess it's up to the public to make sure that we properly

6:29

fund them exactly. And while we're on

6:31

the subject of the library's full potential, have

6:33

you ever heard of this idea called the third place?

6:36

No, what's up? So it's actually a community building

6:38

concept that a sociologist named h

6:40

I think his name is Ray Oldenberg, and

6:42

he outlined it in the late ninet eighties,

6:45

and his thinking was that society foster's

6:47

healthy, happy citizens if it helps them strike

6:49

a balance between, you know, the time spent

6:51

at home, at work, and in neutral

6:54

public spaces. So the idea

6:56

is that a person's home is their first space, their

6:58

workplaces this second place, and their

7:00

third places are the stimulating public spaces

7:03

where people gather to have conversations

7:05

or to take part in some shared activity, or

7:08

just to be in the presence of other people. So

7:10

really, everywhere except the home in the office is third

7:13

place. No, I mean, so some

7:15

of the historical examples, Ray sided where French

7:17

cafes and maybe American taverns

7:20

during their respective revolutions, and you

7:22

could think of diners and coffee shops as

7:24

modern standings. But third places

7:26

can also be parks or rec centers and

7:28

churches. The list goes on. But it

7:30

doesn't mean that any place can be a third place. So,

7:33

for example, it it's got a few rules.

7:35

It's got to be somewhere that's universally accessible,

7:38

both in terms of proximity and price, So

7:40

at third places, some somewhere that costs

7:42

nothing or at least not much. And the other

7:45

main requirement is that it's somewhere welcoming,

7:47

where social and economic status

7:49

don't really matter, and where the environment is so comfortable

7:51

that people develop a connection with the space. All

7:54

right, I think I get it. So, so a library is kind of

7:56

a third place that's focused on learning,

7:58

and I guess that's always been the case, even

8:00

back when libraries did little beyond lending

8:02

print books, but it seems especially

8:04

true under today's model, where libraries are

8:07

offering community classes and provide

8:09

access to things like, you know, everything from sewing

8:11

machines and spinning wheels and go pro

8:13

cameras, all kinds of things now right, and

8:16

now more than ever, libraries are becoming places

8:18

where people can learn a new skill or collaborate

8:20

on a project. Yeah, I guess you've you've

8:22

sold me on this third place thing, mango, and that

8:24

that really might be the way to think of libraries

8:26

as we go forward, and I think so too. So

8:29

there's a British journalist named Caitlin Moran

8:31

who wrote a really great piece about libraries for

8:33

the Times of London. And this was back in two thousand

8:35

and twelve. Apparently the British government

8:37

is a little farther along with their library budget

8:40

cuts than we are in the States. So nearly

8:42

ten percent of England's public

8:44

libraries have closed since two

8:47

Yeah, and so Caitlin wrote about what it was

8:49

like to see all these old public libraries being

8:51

shuttered, and one pardon particular

8:53

really speaks to how libraries exemplify this

8:55

third place and their benefits to society.

8:58

She writes, quote, a library

9:00

in the middle of a community is a cross between an

9:02

emergency exit, a life raft and a festival.

9:05

They are cathedrals of the mind, hospitals

9:08

of the soul, themed parks of the imagination

9:11

on a cold, rainy island. They're

9:13

the only sheltered public spaces where you're

9:15

not a consumer but a citizen instead

9:17

a mall. The shops are places

9:20

where your money makes the wealthy wealthier, but

9:22

a library is where the wealthiest taxes

9:24

pay for you to become a little more extraordinary instead

9:27

satisfying reversal balancing of the

9:29

power. That's pretty awesome, And you

9:31

know, I like to house she's reflecting both on her

9:33

own experiences with libraries, but also

9:35

what libraries are to other people. That's

9:38

ultimately what's going on with this public

9:41

approval rating that we talked about before. I guess,

9:44

so what do you mean by that? Well, I read in that Pew

9:46

report that from last year that over three quarters

9:48

of adults in the US have been to a library

9:50

at some point in their lives. So to be

9:52

sure, some of the goodwill people feel towards libraries

9:55

comes from their own personal experiences

9:57

with them. Even if someone hasn't been to

9:59

a public live re since childhood, they

10:01

probably have some happy nostalgia

10:03

for those early visits, and I guess

10:05

that gives them a positive view of libraries in the

10:08

present. But I also think that people just

10:10

like the idea of a public space that's set

10:12

aside for reading and learning, which,

10:14

you know, basically what everyone thinks of when they think

10:17

about libraries, it's kind of like,

10:19

even if we don't use them, we still take comfort

10:21

in having the option and knowing that these

10:23

places are make a difference in the lives of

10:25

the people around us. I mean that sounds right

10:27

to me. And there's something in the concept of the library

10:29

that really speaks to us on this fundamental

10:31

level. It's like, we want freedom

10:33

and we want to satisfy our natural curiosity.

10:36

So what could be better than this big open

10:38

space to explore any avenue have thought

10:40

you want? Yeah, after all, I mean that there's a reason

10:42

libraries have cropped up in just about every

10:44

civilization for the last few thousand years.

10:47

And I guess the only problem is that we aren't always

10:49

as good to them as they are to us, that's

10:52

for sure. But the funding threats

10:54

and reduced foot traffic that our libraries faced

10:56

now don't seem nearly as bad when you look at the

10:58

rest of our messy track record. But libraries.

11:00

Yeah, now that we've gotten a sense of where libraries

11:02

are today, we should definitely talk about their history

11:05

and how they've been developed and also destroyed

11:07

over the centuries. But first, let's take a quick

11:10

break you

11:23

listen to Part Time Genius and we're talking about

11:25

the shockingly long history of libraries, and

11:28

I do mean long. So in

11:30

fact, libraries are so old they even

11:32

pre date books. The oldest library

11:34

ever discovered dates back to the seventh century

11:36

BC. It was the private library of

11:38

this Assyrian ruler and it contained over

11:41

thirty thousand tablets inscribed with cuneiform.

11:43

And many of the libraries tablets were just archival

11:46

documents or religious texts, but there were some

11:48

early literary work sprinkled into including

11:50

the famous epic of Gilgamesh. Well, I like

11:52

that literature was included in that one because

11:55

it helps strengthen this claim that it's the oldest

11:57

library. I mean, ancient civilizations

11:59

did really distinguished between archives

12:01

and libraries, so it can sometimes get a

12:03

little bit dicey when we're trying to decide what should

12:06

or shouldn't be considered one. Today.

12:08

For example, archaeologists have uncovered similar

12:10

collections of Assyrian clay tablets that

12:12

date back even farther. But you

12:14

know, the contents are mostly records of various

12:17

business transactions and things like that,

12:19

so you couldn't really call it a library.

12:21

I don't think. Yeah, I mean it sounds more like a records

12:23

room or something. But another thing that

12:25

might lend a bit more credit to the royal library

12:27

I mentioned is thats contests were largely

12:30

a mass through the conquest of other territories,

12:32

So the Assyrians would loot texts from the temples

12:34

of Babylonia and other nearby

12:37

regions and and then just add them to the private

12:39

collection. So it really was this effort to

12:41

compile a wide range of knowledge and text

12:43

from different sources, rather than just someone's

12:45

personal business archive. I mean,

12:47

I guess it was for a good cause, but you

12:49

know, building something as peaceful as a library

12:51

through conquest just feels a little

12:54

off tonight. I think I'm more

12:56

on board with the Library of Alexandria's

12:58

approach. So until it was miss Lee

13:00

burned to the ground during the Roman conquest

13:02

of Egypt back in thirty BC, the

13:05

library held something like four hundred

13:07

thousand scrolls, and people had

13:09

moved from clay tablets to papyrus at

13:11

this point. But you know, the scrolls weren't

13:13

the spoils of foreign conquest. Instead,

13:16

the Egyptians waited for foreigners to bring

13:18

text to them. According to the Greek

13:20

physician and philosopher Galen. King Ptolemy

13:23

of Egypt ordered the scrolls of any visiting

13:25

ships to be seized and painstakingly

13:28

copied into manuscripts. But

13:30

the part that I found funniest was that Ptolemy

13:32

kept all the originals and added that to

13:34

the library, and then made the visitors take the copies

13:36

instead. Well, one

13:39

thing I was struck by while researching is how

13:41

so many characteristics we associate with libraries

13:43

were relatively late additions. So

13:45

even when scrolls gave way to books, libraries

13:48

still looked really different from how they do today.

13:51

For instance, did you know the practice of shelving books

13:53

vertically with their spines facing out did take

13:55

hold until the Middle Ages? I mean,

13:57

the closest things to public libraries and

13:59

those days were monasteries. But the monks

14:02

who lived there didn't really want to share their books

14:04

with one another, so they actually hoarded

14:06

books in their private workspaces, going

14:08

so far as to chain the books to their desks.

14:10

I mean, we've mentioned this before in the World Records episode,

14:12

but the books were later moved to communal

14:15

desks where everyone could use them, but they were still

14:17

chained up to keep them from disappear. I

14:20

mean, everybody knows that monks have sticky fingers

14:22

though, right, So, so when did the monks switch

14:24

to more of a vertical storage when

14:26

they got sick of hearing all those rattling chains? I think

14:29

has more and more volumes were added to the monks collections.

14:31

The books had to be piled on top of each other, which

14:33

made it just really cumbersome and

14:35

noisy to remove them from one another. But

14:38

even after going vertical, books still weren't

14:40

displayed with their spines out. They were stood

14:42

on their edge opposite the spine, or even

14:44

placed vertically but with the pages facing

14:47

out instead of the spine. Oh wow,

14:49

I mean, hiding the spine seems like the worst idea.

14:51

You'd have to pull every book off the shelf just

14:53

to find the one that you were looking for. Yeah,

14:55

but you've got to think about this. Back then, like printing

14:57

on book spines didn't really start appearing until

15:01

so in the meantime, people had to come up with their own

15:03

ways and life hacks to deal with this confusion,

15:06

and one early solution was to draw identifying

15:08

marks and designs on the thick of the pages,

15:11

which is actually called the four edges of a book by

15:13

the way. So, for example, there was this Italian

15:15

doctor who had a friend's nephew illustrate

15:17

all the four edges of his books, and he'd

15:19

put scenes on there that depicted the book's

15:22

subject matter. The other popular

15:24

solution was to wrap a title label across

15:26

the book and and tie it on with the chain. Again

15:28

with the chain. I mean, these people must

15:31

have been thrilled when printed spines finally

15:33

came out. But you know, while we're on that subject,

15:36

I also came across a surprisingly late

15:38

addition to libraries, which is really

15:40

the concept of lending or circulating

15:42

books. So most of the ancient and medieval

15:45

libraries we've been talking about, we're private. They

15:47

were either reserved for the use of royalty or

15:49

maybe clergy. And you know, even though

15:51

there were some libraries that were open to the

15:53

public, or at least the portion of the

15:55

public that was literate, they were only

15:58

allowed to reference the books, not to borrow

16:00

them or read outside the library. And

16:02

in fact, the lending library concept that we're

16:04

so familiar with, that didn't catch on until

16:06

around the eighteenth century or so. And

16:08

that's when you know, public library started to crop

16:11

up in in England and in France. Yeah,

16:13

there's another precursor to public lending

16:16

libraries in the US, and they were called subscription

16:18

or membership libraries, and they were funded

16:20

by fees and donations from paying members. So

16:23

apparently there are still like twenty or

16:25

so membership libraries left in the US. But

16:27

back in the late eighteenth and nineteenth centuries

16:30

they were all over the place. Yeah. I wasn't aware

16:32

of these until we started doing our research. But

16:34

but Ben Franklin started one in Philadelphia,

16:36

right, Yeah, that's right. It was called the Library Company,

16:39

and it was the first of its kind in the American

16:41

colonies. Franklin started in seventeen

16:43

thirty one along with a like minded group of

16:45

scholars that he routinely met with, you

16:47

know, talk politics or philosophy and

16:49

other smart stuff. And Franklin's

16:51

group needed a means of obtaining more reading

16:53

material for the discussions, but books

16:55

were super expensive and hard to come by,

16:58

so his reading club pooled their money

17:00

and they started soliciting new members who could

17:02

each contribute money to help grow the library's

17:04

collection. Yeah. But you know, before

17:06

anybody accuses Ben Franklin of being too

17:08

elitist, we we should point out that he also

17:11

had a hand in establishing the country's first

17:13

public library. So this was back in sevente

17:16

Franklin caught wind of a town in Massachusetts

17:18

that had named itself after him,

17:21

so he decided to reward their flattery

17:23

with a gift. Now, the town actually

17:25

asked Franklin to donate a bell for

17:27

their steeple, but he nixed the idea

17:29

in favor of a collection of books. And

17:31

he declared that rather obnoxiously,

17:33

at least that since was preferable

17:36

to sound. Yeah, there's nothing elitist

17:38

about that, not at all. Well, the

17:40

town of Franklin definitely was an elitist

17:42

because the residents took a vote on what to do

17:44

with those donated books, and they decided

17:46

to make them available to everyone, and with

17:48

that America's first public lending library

17:51

was born. That's pretty great. But you know, we

17:53

can't really talk about the history of US libraries

17:55

without mentioning Andrew Carnegie. His

17:57

donations made a huge impact on library

18:00

of all men, and not just in the States but throughout

18:02

the whole world. Yeah, it's true. I mean everyone

18:04

remembers Carnegie as this wealthy industrialist

18:07

and man about town, but he was also

18:09

really philanthropic, and he gave tons

18:11

of money towards projects aimed at making

18:13

the world a better place. And I'd

18:15

have to say his greatest gifts were the astounding

18:17

two thousand, five hundred and nine

18:20

so called Carnegie Libraries that

18:22

he funded over just a fifty year period.

18:25

Yeah, so there were thirty five hundred public

18:27

libraries in the US by which

18:30

is a crazy amount of expansion in the hundred

18:32

fifty years so since uh

18:34

the first one in Franklin. But of

18:37

those thirty five hundred libraries, just

18:39

shy of half were paid for by Carnegie.

18:41

That's incredible, it really is. I mean, you

18:43

know, I think what I like best about the story is why

18:45

Carnegie did all this in the first place.

18:48

So, according to his autobiography, he fell in

18:50

love with reading as a young boy in Scotland

18:52

and he would regularly borrow books from the Tradesman's

18:55

subscription library, which his father helped

18:57

to start. Then years later, Carnegie

18:59

moved to Pittsburgh with his parents and got a job

19:02

at the local telegraph company. As

19:04

luck would have it, his employer actually had a private

19:06

library that he allowed his workers to borrow

19:08

from on Saturdays, and this just

19:11

changed Carnegie's world. I mean,

19:13

here was this wealthy businessman lending

19:15

his personal books to a bunch of blue collar

19:17

kids, you know, just so they might have a shot at

19:19

bettering themselves. And Carnegie

19:21

knew that without that act of kindness,

19:23

all that knowledge would have stayed beyond their

19:26

reach. And that's when he resolved that if he

19:28

ever struck it rich, he would use his wealth

19:30

to establish free libraries. And

19:32

he definitely kept his word right Even today,

19:35

almost all of the Carnegie libraries

19:37

in the US are still standing, and over

19:39

half are still in use. His active libraries,

19:42

a lot of them in lower middle income areas.

19:44

Yeah, and Carnegie actually had another lasting

19:46

impact on libraries that I want to talk about.

19:49

But before we get to that, let's break for a

19:51

quiz. Okay,

19:59

man, go, So, since today's episode is about

20:02

libraries, we decided to look for

20:04

one of our listeners that had a library

20:06

card to come on and take a quiz, and

20:08

we found one. He's uh. He's

20:10

also somebody that spent a ton of time

20:13

in libraries working on a couple of fascinating

20:15

oral histories, and we'll talk about those. But Brian

20:18

Abrams, Welcome to Part Time Genius. Hello,

20:20

thanks for having me, and for full disclosure,

20:23

Brian is one of our long time friends, worked

20:25

with us on several projects in our Mental Floss

20:27

days, and has also, as I mentioned,

20:30

tackled a couple of really fascinating

20:32

oral histories and is working on another that we

20:34

can't talk about just yet. But two of

20:36

them. One was an oral history of

20:38

David Letterman's top ten lists, and another

20:41

was an oral history of the movie die

20:43

Hard, Die Hard So Cool.

20:46

So actually I'm curious, Brian, can you just tell

20:48

us a little bit about when you decided to tackle

20:50

these, Like, how did you decide to do oral

20:52

histories on these two very different

20:54

things. That's a that's actually

20:57

a really interesting question. It's and it's one that's

20:59

easy to answer. I was given to contract to do

21:01

them, and you

21:04

know, you know me, um shines.

21:10

Sounds like you had a real passion for them.

21:13

Yes, exactly, Uh, Dinard

21:15

posters all over my walls, Um.

21:18

But it's it's it's amazing to me who you

21:20

got to talk to? You like you

21:22

got former um right, presidents

21:24

of NBC for the David Letterman

21:27

one and like all these celebrities for the die Hard.

21:29

Can you talk a little bit about how you can actually approach

21:31

those people. Yeah, it's

21:34

actually really difficult. I think that, you

21:37

know, I think a lot of old histories are sort of done

21:39

in in a very authorized

21:42

way. You know, the author or the author's

21:44

people, they go to, you know, the top

21:46

exec right. Maybe you know, if you're gonna

21:48

do it normal history on say Saturday Night

21:50

Live, you kind of you get the okay from Lauren

21:53

Michaels and then you can go around and talk

21:55

to all the usual suspects who were there.

21:58

And I did not do that. I

22:00

was working on the outside in and it

22:02

was very difficult, and it took a lot of

22:05

time to finally wrangle one

22:07

by one of all

22:09

these people that sort of make up the quote

22:12

story of die Hard for instance, which,

22:14

um, you know, it

22:17

took a long time and I probably

22:19

needed you know, three dozen sources

22:22

before say one of the main stars or

22:24

one of the studio exacts would be

22:26

willing to you know, take my phone call. Um.

22:29

But that was a I mean, not to disparage

22:31

Letterman. Letterman is a great story, but you've I'll be

22:33

thinking about die Hard um

22:36

again because of all the posters on my wall.

22:39

Um, you know, that was such

22:41

a weird constellation of a story.

22:43

It wasn't just about the

22:46

making of the movie, which

22:48

wasn't really a controversial production, um,

22:51

but just sort of the ways in which the producers

22:54

got to that point and the ways that

22:56

sort of Bruce Willis found a stardom. It's all.

22:59

It's all really. Yeah, his name wasn't even

23:01

on the movie posters, right, isn't that part

23:03

of the story. Yeah, that's that's true.

23:05

That the original one sheet, I

23:08

think they wanted the studio

23:10

was worried that he Bruce

23:13

Willis, who had just you know, he

23:15

was leaving TV. He had a hit series,

23:17

Moonlighting, but then he had a couple

23:19

of movies, uh that were

23:22

not great or A Blind Dade came out, it wasn't great

23:24

at the box office. The second one was called Sunset and it

23:26

bombed, and they were worried that he was kind of box office

23:29

poison, and so they wanted to make the building the

23:31

star on the on

23:33

the original on the original one sheets. Yeah,

23:35

that were distributed to the theaters. That's

23:37

pretty crazy. That's pretty wild. Well,

23:39

it's it's it's exciting to think about the ones that

23:41

you're working on in the coming year. So we

23:44

look forward to those. But we can't let you

23:46

go without putting you to the test with a quiz.

23:48

So, so what quiz do we have for Brian today? Mango?

23:51

Because he has a library card, We're gonna play a

23:53

game called Name that librarian. All

23:55

right, that's what you've earned, So say sixty

23:58

seconds on the clock. You got your time ready, Mango.

24:01

We're gonna list off some clues and

24:03

we'll see how many of these librarians

24:05

you can name in a minute. So are you ready, Brian?

24:07

Oh, I'm so glad I called yeah.

24:11

Okay, here we go. You got your sixty seconds

24:13

ready? Alright? The time? Does the time

24:15

start with the beginning a question?

24:18

Or when I finished the first question?

24:20

Beginning? This is important. I've never known how

24:22

your sixty second quizzes. Okay, that's

24:25

the kind of power Mango has around here with the control

24:27

of the time. All right, here we go, Question number

24:29

one. This former librarian famously

24:32

tied a key to a kite to try to understand

24:34

electricity. He also invented bifocals.

24:37

Well, that sounds like Benjamin Franklin. Alright.

24:39

This former librarian wrote a wrinkle in

24:42

time. Oh, that would be Hank Kingsley

24:47

Madeline Lingo. All

24:49

right. This former librarian went on to become

24:51

the first director of the FBI. Oh

24:54

wow, uh yeah, what's the face Hooper?

24:57

You got it. This former librarian wrote several

24:59

but loved children's books, including Ramona

25:02

Quimby age eight and The Mouse

25:04

and the Motorcycle. You

25:06

got it. This former librarian became a communist

25:09

revolutionary. He's known as the founding father

25:11

of the People's Republic of China. Oh

25:14

would that be uh? This

25:17

former librarian was actually named Charles

25:20

Dodgson. He wrote, Alison Wonderland,

25:23

I think it's Louis Carol.

25:26

All right, let's rush, Let's get one more. This former librarian

25:28

and first Lady was married to the forty three

25:30

president of the United States. Lash

25:34

you got Brian? Do you did? Great?

25:36

He only got one wrong, which entitles him to a Certificate

25:39

of Genius and an official part time genius

25:41

t shirt one of the smartest ways on the market

25:43

to cover up your torso. Congratulations.

25:45

Al right, great job, Brian, I'm

25:48

honored, Thank you very much. Okay,

26:04

Well, so, besides making it much bigger,

26:06

what else did Carnegie do for the U S Library System?

26:08

All right, Well, this is going to sound a bit exaggerated,

26:11

but really he revolutionized the whole

26:13

way libraries work. So before

26:15

Carnegie, most libraries operated according

26:18

to what's called a closed stacks policy.

26:20

And under this closed model, patrons weren't

26:23

allowed to browse and select books from

26:25

the collection by themselves. After

26:27

all, there was nothing like you know, anti theft

26:29

sensors or cameras in those days

26:31

to help the libraries collection keep from walking

26:33

away. Instead, people had to

26:35

ask a librarian or a clerk to either

26:37

you know, retrieve the specific books they had in

26:40

mind, or just take a gamble

26:42

and leave it to the clerk's discretion to choose

26:44

something for them. I love that. So you

26:46

can tell library staff or i mean, the

26:48

mood for a mystery and then they disappear into the

26:50

back room and grabbed like a random act at

26:52

the Christie or P. D. James or something to the close

26:54

stacks. Yeah, I mean, that's exactly how it worked.

26:56

And the first five libraries that Carnegie built

26:58

actually operated this way too.

27:01

But then Carnegie began to notice the closed

27:03

that system had a few problems. So,

27:05

for one thing, it was clunky. Employees

27:07

were constantly bustling back and forth to fetch

27:10

books, and more workers had to be hired

27:12

to keep up, which would cause operating costs

27:14

to increase. But the even bigger

27:16

problem was that the closed stacks made the library

27:19

feel, you know, really impersonal. I guess,

27:21

yes. I was just thinking it must have been hard

27:23

for a library and to get a sense of what kind of book

27:25

you'd like when there's this massive line of

27:27

people behind you who also want to borrow something.

27:29

Well, plus, there was no chance of discovering a book

27:31

you'd like on your own. I mean, it was all left

27:34

up to fate and the librarian, I

27:36

guess. But you know, Carnegie decided to

27:38

change that. He started using an open

27:40

stacks policy in all of his libraries,

27:43

allowing patrons to browse the shelves for the

27:45

very first time. So pretty soon

27:47

non Carnegie libraries all over the country

27:49

switched to open stacks too. You

27:52

know, I'm listening to you describe the shift to sell

27:54

service libraries, and I just keep thinking back on

27:56

that idea of the libraries the third place,

27:58

you know, this accessible space that's open

28:00

to everyone, And it sounds like this

28:03

open stacks policy really helped bring that idea

28:05

to fruition. And what's really exciting

28:07

now is looking around and seeing all the ways librarians

28:10

are picking up on that concept and just running

28:12

with it. So what do you mean by that? You want to give a

28:14

few examples. Yeah, So one thing is that

28:16

some libraries have begune offering self publishing

28:18

and print on demand services,

28:21

like the Sacramento Public

28:23

Library that they've got this community program called

28:25

I Street Press, and it revolves around

28:27

one of those really cool espresso book machines.

28:30

Those are kind of like those like the all in one book

28:32

robots, right exactly. It kind of looks like a

28:34

copy machine, but it can actually print, bind,

28:37

and trim a complete paperback in three

28:39

to five minutes. Yeah, And so one

28:41

way the library uses it is to supplement

28:43

their in house book collection. The machine

28:45

is connected to this database about three million

28:47

titles that are either out of print or

28:50

backlisted, so people can actually print

28:52

their own copies if they're unable to find them anywhere

28:54

else. That's pretty awesome, but it doesn't

28:56

seem all that community driven though. Well,

28:58

that's the other thing the library you is it for? So

29:01

they offer these free writing and publishing classes

29:03

where people can come and learn about the craft of writing

29:05

and get a sense of whether they'd like to self

29:08

publish a book on their own. Then if

29:10

someone writes and designs their own book, they can

29:12

pronount as many copies as they want right

29:14

there in the library. And this is the coolest

29:16

part. If someone donates a copy to their book to the

29:18

library, it actually gets added to the local

29:21

authors section and can even be requested

29:23

by other libraries. Oh, that is pretty cool,

29:25

and I know that'd be a lot of fun for writers to be

29:27

able to see their their own work in a library's

29:29

collection. But all right, so what about for libraries

29:32

that can't afford their own bookmaking robots?

29:34

I was looking at the cost of these things are over

29:36

a hundred thousand dollars, aren't they.

29:38

Yeah, they are pretty prizy, and that library

29:40

only has one because it requested the funds by

29:42

writing for a special grant. But don't

29:44

worry. There are lots of unusual community programs

29:47

and services that even the thriftiest of

29:49

libraries could adopt so um.

29:51

Take, for example, the four branches of the Queen's

29:53

Library in New York. They operate a new lending

29:56

system called the Tiberry, where patrons

29:58

can check out neckties for up to three weeks at

30:00

a time. The idea has spun out of the fact

30:02

that of local libraries already

30:05

offer online career and job related services.

30:08

I mean, people have been coming to the libraries to job

30:10

hunt online for years now, so why

30:12

not make sure they have something stylish to wear when they actually

30:14

land that job interview. That's pretty neat and it

30:17

makes a lot of sense to me, I mean, although the only

30:19

problem is they then have to figure out

30:21

how to tie the tie right. Well, the

30:23

Queen's Library has you covered there too. All

30:25

the ties, which are donated by the public are

30:27

distributed in these little boxes that also

30:30

include this illustrated guide for how to tie half

30:32

winds or not, And there's also tips

30:34

for how to nail an interview just in

30:36

case you need some extra pointers. Wow, I guess,

30:38

I mean they they thought of everything. Yeah,

30:41

surprise. Librarians are really smart and

30:44

long suffering. On a slightly different

30:46

topic, I don't know if you've seen this tumbler

30:48

called I work at a public library where

30:50

library and share some of their favorite stories and

30:53

what is it? So it's this long running

30:55

collection of photos and anecdotes

30:57

submitted by these war weary library

31:00

arians and it's been going since like two thousand

31:02

and eight, I think, and there's something like sixty

31:04

pages of stories at this point, and

31:06

they all offered this pretty hilarious

31:08

look into the weird stuff librarians have

31:10

to deal with. Probably one of my favorites

31:12

is this one where a librarian comes across the guy lying

31:15

flat on his back in the History of

31:17

Europe section of their library, and

31:19

after asking if he's all right, the guy responds,

31:21

I'm just contemplating life. But I understand

31:24

if you need me to get off the floor then

31:26

according to library, and he willingly, and with no

31:28

further persuasion, gets up and moves to a

31:30

chair. That's amazing. And and

31:32

see you said it was off topic, but there's

31:35

that open communication in sense of community we've

31:37

been talking about right there right if you say

31:39

so, thanks for making it connect. Yeah,

31:41

but it's sadly there are also times when the community

31:44

just can't help you out and a person has to make

31:46

his way alone. It's time for the fact

31:48

off. Wow, that's some trash talking right

31:50

there. Um, But I know,

31:53

as we've got into our research for this episode, we kept

31:55

talking about some of the non book things we've heard

31:57

libraries we're lending. So why don't we focus on

31:59

those today?

32:02

Ye?

32:08

All right, let's see what I've got here first.

32:11

Okay, Well, if you've ever thought about trying

32:13

out surfing but didn't want to invest in

32:15

your own board or for the price of renting

32:17

one, you could just head over to the Inverlock

32:19

Library and Victoria, Australia to check

32:21

out the one they keep on hand for the locals.

32:24

That's awesome bringing back

32:26

to this hemisphere. I think it's pretty great that they

32:28

are now more than a hundred libraries in the US

32:30

with three D printers that library guests can use,

32:33

and for many of them you actually have to take a couple of hours

32:35

safety course first, which does seem

32:37

reasonable to me. This some of year you'll

32:39

find guests making Christmas ornaments, but you'll

32:41

also find students making models for school projects

32:44

and other stuff. That's pretty cool. Well,

32:46

I think it's pretty funny that the Aurora Public

32:48

Library in Illinois allows you to rent

32:50

one of their thirty sculptures for

32:52

a couple of months. So what do

32:54

you do with them? You just make your house or your office

32:56

look all fancy. I guess I don't know where

32:59

they came from. Well, another thing

33:01

you can check out that may see him a little more

33:03

useful is one of the many kitchen tools

33:05

available in several libraries now, so

33:07

blenders, mixers, and my favorite

33:10

Coventry Public Library and Rhode Island

33:12

offers more than fifty different cake

33:14

pans. There's even a SpongeBob

33:16

one. I'm not sure if it makes kids dumber

33:18

like the show does. As we learned our Mr. Rogers

33:21

episode, we have to test that out with

33:23

our own kids. I guess. Alright, Well, back

33:25

to the third place idea we talked about earlier.

33:27

There are more than three hundred libraries in the

33:29

US that have these little seed libraries.

33:32

We're growing vegetables and flowers. And

33:34

you may be wondering how this works, since you wouldn't think

33:37

you could bring those seeds back, but

33:39

they do invite guests to save their own seeds

33:41

and donate them back to the library for others

33:43

to use. I think it's pretty wild that

33:46

some libraries are starting to involve dogs in their

33:48

library activities. So some use them

33:50

to encourage children to read by spending

33:52

some quiet time reading to a therapy dog, and

33:54

the Yale University Law Library has provided

33:57

a dog for stressed out law students

33:59

to hang out with while their study. Who

34:01

knew you could check out a dog? That really

34:04

is pretty cool, So I think I have to give

34:06

it to you. Mango. Congratulations, you win the fact

34:08

off. Oh thanks so much, I'm so honored.

34:11

Well, that's it for today's episode. Honestly, there

34:13

were too many great facts and stories about

34:15

libraries to fit them all into one episode.

34:17

So if you have any favorites you feel like we should have mentioned,

34:20

let us know. You can email us at part Time

34:22

Genius and How Stuff Works dot com

34:24

or call our two seven fact hotline.

34:27

That's one eight four four pt Genius.

34:29

It is still seven, right, Mango. Oh

34:31

that's great. I can't believe we keep it going that long, but

34:34

we love hearing from you. Thanks for listening.

34:50

Thanks again for listening. Part Time Genius is

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34:57

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35:07

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35:09

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