0:06

This is Patriots Playbook,

0:08

the legend trendsetters. Okay, well,

0:11

you know I kind of like that, and then I will forgot the

0:13

downshift again, and then I would the engine

0:15

would just like that and I wouldn't

0:18

go anywhere. And I feel like that's where we

0:20

are right now. Thank you.

0:21

Yeah, I thought that was a pretty good analogy too. I

0:23

just came up with that too, by the way, But that's really kind of

0:25

where we are.

0:27

If this doesn't happen in the first twenty four

0:29

to forty eight hours, it ain't gonna

0:31

happen. Rip me a new one next week, if

0:34

you know on the show is perfect long you ripped

0:36

me one?

0:36

Now?

0:37

If you're like disgusted by that thought, I love

0:39

a good conspiracy, This is good stuff for me.

0:41

I like this. This is neat Okay.

0:43

Now here's your host of Patriots

0:45

Playbook, John Rook. Well,

0:50

I guess then what that means is we

0:52

are more than forty eight hours past

0:55

the end of the regular season, which means, if I hold

0:57

to that particular prediction, Bill

1:00

Belichick is still going to be coach to the Patriots. I

1:02

don't know how you feel about that, in particular,

1:05

because that seems like all

1:07

I've heard, you know, in.

1:09

Social media through friends.

1:11

What I've read that the Patriots simply

1:13

have to rip off the band aid and start over,

1:16

and that includes cleaning

1:18

house.

1:18

And starting with the head coach.

1:20

I'm not sure how you feel about that, but that's certainly going to

1:22

be a part of the topic of discussion today here

1:24

in the Playbook.

1:24

Welcome everybody. It is our final regular.

1:27

Season edition of Patriots Playbook

1:29

here on Patriots dot Com Radio, assuming

1:32

the timeslot the Patriots unfieldered

1:34

normally has here, largely because

1:37

they're moving into off season mode, vacating

1:39

Wednesdays, and I'm kind of moving into

1:42

off season mode as well because I usually go

1:44

on Wednesdays to feel that off seasons.

1:46

That way, we have more live programming

1:48

during the course of the week, and

1:51

so glad to be here with you, especially if you're

1:53

just tuning in for the first time.

1:55

I am somewhat remote.

1:57

Because I've got a college basketball I guess

1:59

I remote. Got a college basketball

2:01

broadcast tonight in Manhattan at

2:04

Madison Square Garden, but still have very

2:06

much football.

2:07

On the mind of things. Evan Lazar

2:10

is here, He's going to join us.

2:12

We have Phil Perry from NBC

2:14

Sports Boston who's going to join us,

2:17

Dakota Randall, who covers the Patriots

2:19

for nesson the New England Sports

2:21

Network, He's going to join us, and of course Russell

2:24

Baxter, who has been with US for a

2:26

number of years covering

2:28

the National Football League. And we'll run through the opening

2:30

round of the playoffs in our number two of

2:33

the program today. So there's a lot on

2:35

the agenda, and in all honesty,

2:37

I got to start with

2:39

you first and foremost.

2:42

Do you rip off the band aid or

2:45

do you let the scab heal?

2:48

It's kind of a gross way to put it.

2:50

But but I'm

2:52

just really I think that's what we

2:54

need to kind of figure out here.

2:56

Ev What do you? What do you? What is?

2:57

What's your opinion on that? I know that we've talked about

2:59

this many times before. We've kind of danced

3:02

around it because clearly, you know, we're Patriots

3:04

employees, so we don't advocate one

3:06

way or the other. We're just kind of talking about

3:08

what people, what fans, what

3:11

followers are talking about. And in

3:13

all honesty, as I said

3:16

in the open and as I said to you on the show

3:18

last week, if something doesn't happened

3:20

the first forty eight hours after the season is

3:22

over.

3:23

I'm of the opinion it's gonna stay the way

3:25

it is now. There may be changes, and

3:27

I think we all expect changes to come,

3:30

but as far as the head coach is concerned, I

3:33

think it's status quote. What are your thoughts?

3:35

Well, I think that at this point,

3:37

where we're we're seeing is that

3:40

the crafts are doing an autopsy

3:42

of football operations, right. They're

3:45

doing a fact finding mission, an

3:47

audit of what exactly

3:49

went wrong, because I don't think you

3:51

can answer the question of how to fix it

3:53

without knowing first what were the core

3:55

reasons that this went so

3:58

badly this past season? Was

4:00

it coaching? Was it personnel?

4:03

Was it a combination of the two? You know,

4:05

where does that all fall into the blame

4:07

pie? And without those answers,

4:09

it's it's difficult to do. And I think the second

4:11

thing is is ideally,

4:15

I think that there's a world where Bill

4:19

Belichick stays on as the head coach,

4:22

but somebody else is running

4:24

personnel. And is

4:27

that something that Bill is willing

4:29

to do? Is he truly going

4:31

to be collaborative and truly hand over

4:33

the keys to the roster to somebody else.

4:36

Is he going to be collaborative and how he plays

4:38

the players at that person picks

4:41

and is that something Bill can do?

4:44

And is that what the best course of action is

4:46

for the franchise moving forward? Are

4:48

two things that I think needed to be

4:50

answered after the season. I think it's difficult

4:53

to have these conversations while

4:55

the team is playing and their game

4:58

planning and they're practicing and they're doing all

5:00

these other things. So these

5:02

last couple of days, I think that that's really been the

5:04

main conversation in the building. And I don't

5:07

know that, I'm just surmising. The

5:09

main conversation in the building has been how

5:13

do we move forward with

5:15

Bill? And is that a realistic

5:17

scenario? And then if not, then I

5:19

think we'll hear in the next couple of days

5:22

here that they've moved on from Bill Belichick.

5:24

So if that is going to be the case,

5:26

are there still you know, people on the staff

5:29

in the building so to speak, that should

5:31

be worried? Do you think about, you know, the status

5:34

of their jobs going forward or

5:37

do you get the sense that you

5:39

know, as again, as I suggest off the top

5:42

of the show, that if this doesn't happen, quickly.

5:44

It probably won't happen at all.

5:45

Yeah. No, I definitely still think the jury's

5:47

out on who's going to be here next

5:50

year from this staff. And I would

5:52

look mainly at the

5:54

personnel side of things, and then of course at

5:57

the head coach himself, But I

5:59

look at the personnel department Macro, Elliott

6:02

Wolf, Cameron Williams. So I think

6:05

they really like as the college scouting director,

6:07

those guys I think do a

6:10

really good job at

6:12

their individual jobs, you know, Like I think mac

6:14

Grow is a really a

6:16

good college scout. The

6:19

issue I think that they might have

6:21

right now is is Macro

6:24

really good in the veteran market right

6:26

in terms of free agent signings, trades,

6:29

things like that, And do they

6:31

need to bring in somebody that has a

6:34

little bit more experience, a little bit

6:36

more medal around

6:38

the league in terms of negotiations

6:40

and that sort of thing. You know, if

6:42

you heard some names kicked around like a

6:45

bringing back like a Scott Pioli or Thomas

6:47

de Mitrof or John Robinson or

6:49

Dave Ziegler, I

6:51

don't I wish that we could go a little

6:53

bit out further outside the tree, right

6:56

Like I wish it didn't have to be a familiar

6:58

face to that point, But

7:00

in general, I wouldn't if

7:02

it's possible for Bill to do

7:05

that and to put his ego to the side and

7:07

to put his you know, kind

7:10

of just cooperative brain on

7:13

for a second. If it's possible,

7:15

I would entertain the idea of

7:17

bringing in a true general manager

7:19

to run the personnel side of things and

7:22

just have Bill coach. I'm just I have my doubts

7:24

of whether or not that would actually work in the long

7:26

run.

7:27

I honestly they would think Evan that that that's what

7:29

most people would

7:32

accept. I mean, if if

7:34

mister Craft, as we know, who's

7:36

you know, very conscious about you know what his season

7:38

ticket overs, what his sponsors, you

7:40

know what, you know, his business

7:43

partners think of the

7:45

way things are going, if

7:47

he really wants to appease I believe the

7:49

mass majority here, which is clearly

7:51

I think good business, and we know that he knows how to run

7:53

a good business, that that would

7:56

be an acceptable route to go. That if

7:58

Bill, as long as Bill is accepting

8:00

of duty changes,

8:02

and he did allude to that in his Monday

8:05

news conference here this week, the annual you

8:07

know You're in wrap up where he

8:09

said, Look, I'm for and I'm paraphrasing

8:11

gear, but I'm for whatever, you know, the organization

8:14

decides, which obviously includes him.

8:17

But I think it tells me a that

8:19

if he was really stuck to his guns,

8:22

I mean, really sticking to his guns. You know, I got a

8:24

contract, and he did. By the way, let on that he

8:26

has another year on his contract. But

8:28

you know, if you wanted to go by his contract, which means

8:30

he has final say, it

8:32

has meant that he has final say over personnel

8:35

issues that you know, he could play hardball.

8:37

And I know a lot of people in the media, at least

8:40

in the greater Boston area, believe

8:42

that that's what's happening.

8:44

I'm not so sure that's the case. I think Bill

8:46

likes his job.

8:47

I think he likes being head

8:49

coach of the Patriots, and I think he realizes

8:52

that Look, well, for whatever reason, I'm

8:55

not going to sign blame here. It hasn't gone

8:57

the way that we want it to. Nobody goes into

8:59

this thing thinking, wow, you know,

9:02

I don't know, can we get to seven wins?

9:04

Can we get to eight wins?

9:05

No, Nobody goes into the season thing like

9:07

that. They think that they're going to be competitive.

9:09

Now.

9:09

Clearly there have been some missteps taken.

9:13

I don't know about you, but if you've ever been in a position

9:15

where you know you're trying to, you

9:17

know, do a better job on your job,

9:19

and we all do that, I think from time to time, no matter

9:21

what profession you're in, when you know

9:23

that there are issues at hand, you're

9:25

going to talk it over with your bosses and

9:27

you're gonna say, all right, how do we improve this?

9:29

And then they're probably gonna ask.

9:30

You, well, Evan, how do you think

9:33

we need to improve this? And you're gonna give him your

9:35

thoughts. And this is I think where

9:37

we are right now between coach

9:39

Belichick and mister Kraft.

9:42

And I think Bill wants to still be here now

9:44

if he's willing to accept help.

9:47

And I don't know if that means somebody

9:50

that reports to him or if

9:52

he reports to them, but if there's

9:54

organizational help, and I'm putting quotation

9:57

air quotes around the word help, and if

9:59

he's open of that, I think Bill is

10:01

still the coach here and I think he probably deserves

10:03

to still be coach here. And I've maintained that

10:05

from day one since this you know, horrible

10:08

twenty three season really

10:10

got started, you know, in Unfolded,

10:13

And again that

10:15

seems to be because of his non

10:18

disclosure attitude. That

10:20

seems to be what many

10:23

in the media believe won't happen

10:25

because they don't think Bill will

10:27

accept that. And I'm just kind

10:29

of curious as to your thoughts on

10:31

the diconomy of the of the two stances

10:35

here. I personally believe Bill is

10:37

more open and receptive than

10:39

I think a lot of people in the media tend

10:41

to believe he is.

10:42

What do you think, Yeah, I think in some ways.

10:44

The biggest thing, though, is that it's one thing

10:47

to agree to it in practice is another

10:49

thing to actually walk to walk

10:51

right. And I feel like that's my biggest

10:54

concern is that he can go in there and

10:56

he can say, yeah, we're gonna be more

10:58

collaborative. We're going to hire a an experienced

11:01

general manager to come run personnel, and

11:03

that person is gonna pick the ninety man roster,

11:05

and he's gonna run free agency and

11:07

run the draft and do all those types of things.

11:10

But when push comes to show, when there's

11:12

disagreements at the table and

11:15

they get out there to training camp, you know, in

11:17

August, in late July and

11:19

they have You know, Bill's not going to go

11:21

in there and say, like the GM draft

11:23

at Jaden Daniels and now I'm not gonna play them.

11:26

I'm not going that far. But like, you

11:28

know, these other players around the periphery, what's

11:31

to stop Bill from saying, I just

11:33

don't like this guy. You know, he doesn't fit what I

11:35

want to do, he doesn't play ball.

11:37

And then all of a sudden, the general manager

11:40

is picking these players that Bill's not

11:42

playing or is playing out of out

11:45

of position or in different roles or

11:47

whatever, and they're just not aligned in

11:50

how they view skill sets

11:52

and how they view schematic

11:54

fits and things like that.

11:56

That's my question because

11:59

if Bill still has control

12:01

of the fifty three man ross, control of the

12:03

game day ross, or control of the game plan,

12:05

you know he's gonna go in there and he's gonna say,

12:08

Marty Mapu is a safety, right,

12:10

Like I know you drafted him thinking

12:12

that we had this like new age Matt

12:15

Mulano hybrid linebacker type

12:17

of player, but we view him as a

12:19

as a box safety, as a Kyle

12:21

Duggar type of player. And that's

12:23

how we're gonna play him that that is

12:26

gonna cause issues, that's gonna cause friction,

12:29

and it's not The product is not

12:31

gonna be what the GM and vision, what Bill

12:33

envision. So I think that that's the biggest

12:35

problem is that it's a great

12:37

idea, like I just mapped it out. You just mapped

12:39

it out, Like that's the best idea of

12:41

how to move forward in a lot of ways,

12:44

but is it actually can they

12:46

actually execute that plan yeah,

12:49

and have it go well. I think

12:51

there's also a side of me that

12:53

says not necessarily

12:56

because I don't think Bill's the best head coach

12:58

for the job. But going into

13:01

being seventy two years old next season,

13:04

there is a part of me that says, now is

13:06

the time to go into

13:09

a different era, Like not just

13:11

because of his

13:14

age or his you know, failures

13:16

this past season, but because of both things, Like it's

13:19

just a good time to

13:21

look at it and say, Bill's

13:23

seventy one years old. Realistically,

13:25

we're going to draft the quarterback again at the top

13:28

of the draft. How many years

13:30

is Bill going to coach Drake may for? Realistically?

13:33

And now's the time coming

13:36

off a four win season, we have the

13:38

reason to do it. Let's usher

13:40

in a new era. You know, Mike Frable's forty

13:43

eight years old. Girodmeo's in his

13:45

late thirties, right or early forties, late thirties.

13:48

Maybe it's an outside hire. It's a

13:50

Ben Johnson, it's you know, Jim

13:52

Harbaugh, whoever, Just somebody

13:54

that is younger, and it can

13:56

be a part of a rebuild that's

13:59

a long time fix. I think when

14:01

we look at twenty twenty one, the one thing

14:03

that we can really learn from why

14:05

it didn't it wasn't sustainable. They

14:07

had a ten win season, made the playoffs, and they couldn't

14:09

sustain it. There's a lot of coaching

14:12

issues that are thrown in there as well, but I think

14:14

one of the main reasons why it wasn't sustainable

14:16

is because they went for the quick fix. We're

14:19

gonna spend all this money in free agency, We're

14:21

gonna draft the quarterback in the first round,

14:23

and boom, we're right back in it. But

14:25

I don't necessarily think that that is

14:28

a sustainable model. And with

14:30

a seventy one year old head coach, it

14:32

might be difficult to go the sustained

14:35

route of you might need

14:37

to make a tough decision at the top of the draft

14:39

and take a tackle instead of a quarterback.

14:42

You might need to be a little bit more methodical

14:44

in how you spend your money in free agency.

14:47

It might not be this instant

14:49

fix that everybody wants. If

14:52

Bill is still here, and maybe

14:54

it is gonna be a two or three year rebuild.

14:56

And at that point, we're talking about a seventy four to seventy

14:59

five year old Bill bell Check coaching the team.

15:01

Right, And I think we all kind of you realize

15:04

that, you know, look, Bill is only going to be here for end

15:06

of the year too, maybe,

15:08

and you have to bring in somebody

15:10

that has a longer term view

15:14

for the future.

15:15

Of this franchise.

15:16

And I think even Bill probably understands

15:19

that and realizes that. What I'm

15:21

guessing that's probably being talked about literally

15:24

as we speak, and

15:26

certainly among the discussions as we speak,

15:28

would be the fact that, look, we need somebody

15:30

to come in and help you or

15:32

assist here in the overall process

15:34

of bringing talent into the program, because

15:37

we can all agree here the talent has not

15:39

been there in the last two or three years like

15:41

had been here previously, you

15:43

know, especially while Tom Brady was playing quarterback

15:46

and it has taken a hit over the last few years

15:48

now for whatever reason, whether it's just misevaluation

15:51

or what have you, or you know.

15:53

You know, we also know that there has been a.

15:56

Run on you know, coaches

15:59

and scout out and evaluators

16:02

moving on as well because of all the coaching changes

16:04

that we've had. And it may very well be that there

16:06

are just people who are you know, certainly talented,

16:08

but just not quite savvy enough

16:11

to be able to handle the modern day

16:13

NFL game. It doesn't mean that they won't be, but

16:15

we know the Patriots have always been a sort of a breeding

16:17

ground for these types of people.

16:18

Then they go on and they move on.

16:20

And that's one of the things that has made the

16:22

Patriots so successful is they've got

16:24

this young energy behind them

16:26

and they've hit on a lot of them, and over the last two

16:28

or thir years, they have not yet on.

16:30

A lot of them. So if they find someone who

16:32

comes in from a personal.

16:33

Standpoint of and let's say, all right,

16:36

I'm going to help you build the fifty

16:38

three, but on game day

16:40

it's up to you, you know, to decide who

16:42

to plug in.

16:43

Where I mean, is that something that's feasible.

16:45

Is that something that's.

16:46

Doable, And clearly

16:48

Bill's going to have input, and I

16:50

think Bill realizes, you know, he needs to have

16:53

input. But whoever that person is,

16:55

you know, whether Scott Pioli comes back, whether

16:57

you know, there's so many other rumors out there right now,

17:00

you can't shake the tree.

17:01

They're all going to hit you in the head. Then

17:04

as long as they.

17:04

Realize that this is sort of a two way street

17:07

for however long Bill's going to coach

17:09

and it's only going to be a year, maybe two tops,

17:12

and then once he's gone, they

17:14

bring in the coach that they want or whoever is

17:16

available at the time, and

17:19

then the pecking order then the.

17:23

Yeah, then the pecking order sort of takes over

17:25

here.

17:25

Is that?

17:26

I mean, it's out of the ordinary.

17:28

It's not the usual way that I think that

17:30

most teams conduct business.

17:31

But why can't the Patriots conduct business

17:34

like this?

17:35

Yeah, that's a good question. I think

17:37

the biggest thing is that

17:40

my expectation of like what Bill

17:43

Belichick's if Bill Belichick wants

17:45

to stay with the Patriots and be the head

17:47

coach of the Patriots, but I think he does based

17:49

off of what he said on Monday.

17:51

I agree.

17:52

I think he does. So if that, my

17:54

guess is that his pitch to Robert

17:56

Kraft was we

17:58

are just or going to keep everybody

18:00

that we currently have, but we're just

18:03

gonna beat this thing up, right, Like, we're

18:05

gonna bring in a real personnel

18:07

guy with experience, you know,

18:10

like you mentioned Peoli, right, Like, let's

18:12

just use him as an example. We're gonna

18:14

bring back Scott Peely, We're gonna bring back

18:16

John Robinson, Dave Ziegler, we're

18:19

gonna bring back Josh McDaniels, and

18:22

we're gonna pair him with Bill O'Brien.

18:25

There's been a brain drain in

18:27

this organization, yeah, the last

18:30

couple of years. That go beyond

18:32

just the players that have left. You

18:34

know, Tom Brady leaving obviously is the biggest

18:36

thing, but Dante

18:38

Scarnekia retiring, Ivan Fears

18:41

retiring, Ernie Adams retiring,

18:43

you know, guys that have been poached Nick Cassario

18:46

types, Dave Zieglers, you know that

18:48

have been poached by other organizations to

18:50

run their personnel departments. That

18:53

has been a big problem. And I think that

18:56

there's a world where Bill probably

18:58

pitches that we're we're

19:00

gonna beef it up. We're gonna bring back a bunch

19:03

of guys, we're gonna bring in more coaches.

19:05

We're gonna bring in experienced coaches

19:07

in general manager types, and we're

19:09

gonna go that direction, and we're

19:11

gonna get this thing back in order. I

19:15

just think that there's also a really uh

19:17

that's the pitch, And I

19:20

think that the Crafts have in season

19:22

been leaning towards moving on from Bill

19:24

Belichick. But I think right now,

19:27

what these this lull that we're getting

19:29

of information these last couple of days

19:32

is because Belichick sat down

19:34

with mister Kraft and made a

19:37

pitch just like that, right like, this is

19:39

what we're gonna do. This is what I would

19:41

do. Almost like how if they interviewed

19:44

Mike Rabel tomorrow to be the next head coach

19:46

of the Patriots, Rabel would do the same thing. He would

19:49

say, this is my pitch, this is my plan

19:51

of how we're gonna map this out. And

19:53

I think the Patriots are giving Bill the

19:56

respect and the benefit of the doubt right now

19:59

to make his pitch. And maybe

20:01

some of this delay in this process

20:04

is having conversations with people

20:06

that aren't currently employed by the organization

20:09

about their interest in coming back to

20:11

the organization. You know, maybe Josh

20:13

McDaniels was at the game on Sunday. I

20:16

know it was reported that he was here as a fan, But

20:18

maybe there are conversations going on behind

20:20

the scenes with Josh McDaniels about

20:22

a return. Maybe there's conversations about those

20:25

GMS that I mentioned in about

20:27

a possible return. So I think that that's

20:29

what's all kind of contributing to the

20:32

delay and information and why we don't have

20:34

a definitive answer yet, because they're

20:36

trying to get their ducks in a row and see what

20:39

is the best possible pitch

20:41

that Bill can put forward, and then once

20:43

that settles, they'll kind of sit there

20:46

and say is this the best course of action or

20:48

is it not?

20:49

And that makes perfect sense.

20:50

You don't want, mister

20:53

Kraft, you don't want the Patriots organization

20:55

to make any hasty decisions.

20:58

I've heard so many people stop me

21:01

if you haven't as well.

21:02

I've heard so many people say they need to rip off the band

21:04

aid and just start over. And I don't think

21:06

you can do that when you realize

21:08

what you've built up over the course the last twenty

21:10

years, has been historical and

21:13

so you know, and I think

21:15

we can.

21:15

All agree here that Bill Belichick can still

21:17

coach.

21:18

You don't just become ignorant overnight or

21:21

even over a two or three year period. There's

21:23

still a ton there, I think for

21:25

him to offer, and I think he clearly still

21:28

wants to do that.

21:29

How do we go about doing that?

21:31

And is there a viable way to

21:33

conduct business in that realm?

21:35

Is what is being determined, And look, i'd

21:38

be all four.

21:38

Let me go back to Mike Rabel,

21:40

who was fired yesterday on

21:42

Tuesday by the Tennessee Titans.

21:45

I said, and I think I said right here

21:47

on this program. I said when he came

21:50

in for his Hall of Fame induction this

21:52

fall, that I

21:54

could definitely see Mike Vrabel as

21:58

a coach of the New England Patriots

22:00

in his future. And I realized he had a job at the

22:02

time. But it was just his mannerisms.

22:05

It was just the way he phrased things. I mean when

22:07

he was at halftime of the game,

22:10

uh, and he wrapped up his speech

22:12

by saying.

22:12

Right, we have to play a game here.

22:15

Yeah, And I'm kind of like, Okay, who is this

22:17

weed that we're talking about here, Mike, because

22:19

I know you playing her ones, but you certainly don't

22:21

coach here. And I just I that struck

22:23

me as odd, and I brought it up at the time,

22:26

and so I could see this scenario unfolding.

22:29

And if you tell me that tomorrow the.

22:31

Patriots decide we're pulling the plug and rabels

22:33

our guy, it won't shock

22:35

me.

22:36

Yeah, shock me.

22:38

And I think that might be the next that

22:40

might be the next step to take if we determine

22:43

that Bill going forward with help is

22:46

not the viable alternative. So

22:48

I could see that, and then I could see, you know, Mike

22:50

bringing in his own guys, working

22:53

with his own gms, working with his own offensive

22:55

coordinators, remaking everything, And

22:57

okay, then you probably get a little

23:00

closer to that band aid ripping off that

23:02

so many fans seem to want.

23:04

You can still get that you so accomplishment.

23:07

I guess my original point here is, however,

23:09

that I think you can get what you really

23:11

want even if Bill is still the coach,

23:13

because let's face it, of all the coaches

23:16

that are out there and available to

23:18

become the next head coach of the New England

23:20

Patriots, who is

23:23

the most qualified it's Bill.

23:25

Yeah, yeah, that's

23:28

kind of the easiest way to sum it up, right, It's like

23:30

who has the best resume at the

23:32

table. And I'm sure that if Bill

23:35

were to be let go by the Patriots,

23:37

that he would have suitors

23:39

in the open market. You know, there's obviously

23:42

there's rumors already about you know, Atlanta,

23:45

you know, being want a team that would

23:47

make an aggressive move for him,

23:49

move for him if Bill were to become available.

23:52

What Dad said with Rabel, I've

23:54

been luke warm on Vrabel

23:56

because I really have a

23:59

I'm of the mind that they

24:01

should be thinking offense with all

24:03

of their moves. Right, you have the thirty

24:05

first ranked scoring offense in

24:07

the NFL this year. Your offense wasn't

24:10

good last year either, and the

24:12

idea of pairing

24:15

an offensive mind and I

24:17

think one thing that people misconstruction it is not even

24:19

to do with age, right, Like, I don't It doesn't

24:22

have to be thirty, a thirty five year old

24:25

Sean McVay type, right, Like, I don't necessarily

24:27

care about that. It's just somebody that

24:30

is forward thinking on the

24:32

offensive side of the ball. And I think

24:34

the Patriots have gotten into this rut.

24:37

These last couple of years from

24:39

a big picture sense, because they're

24:42

trying to win games seventeen to fourteen

24:44

right like they want to play. They want to be

24:47

a tough football team that runs

24:49

the ball, that plays good defense,

24:51

that plays well in the kicking game, and

24:53

they want to win games, low

24:55

scoring type of games and

24:58

just have a quarterback and an offense and

25:01

especially a passing offense that does

25:03

just enough to put them over the top.

25:06

But they don't want that to They don't want the offense

25:08

and the passing offense to be the driving

25:11

force of why they win. And

25:13

I don't know if you can win in

25:15

the modern age built that way

25:17

anymore. That's not to say

25:19

that defense isn't important. It's

25:22

just to say that the teams that get

25:24

to the dance and get to the finale,

25:27

get to the Super Bowl are usually

25:29

the teams that have the best passing

25:32

offenses in the best quarterbacks.

25:33

Today. Yeah, I would agree with that absolutely

25:36

today.

25:36

But let me ask you so just quickly, I'll interject

25:38

here, couldn't the Patriots under

25:40

Mike Rabels still accomplished that, especially

25:42

if he hires some of the people that are rumored

25:45

to be open.

25:46

And have worked with in the past.

25:47

I mean, the Titans had well the number two, number

25:49

three offense in the NFL just.

25:50

Two or three years ago.

25:52

Absolutely, but they were built by

25:54

running the ball at Derrick Henry and

25:57

a lot of play action off of the run

25:59

game.

26:00

And as he is a.

26:02

Free agent, but he's not the player, so it

26:04

wasn't not the player. He was the back then,

26:06

you know. And no, but

26:09

I think just watching Rabel

26:11

from the outside looking in, I think

26:13

that he he thinks a lot

26:16

of the same things that Bill does in terms of

26:18

how he wants his team to play and

26:20

and and it emulates how he played

26:22

right Like it's that's how he was.

26:24

He was a lunch pale kind

26:27

of guy. And I think that that's the type

26:29

of team that Tennessee has been in his

26:31

tenure there to some success,

26:33

no doubt about that.

26:35

Now.

26:35

The thing that intrigues me about Rabel

26:37

because I again, I would go the

26:39

Ben Johnson route, right, like I would hire

26:42

the best offensive mine that I can possibly

26:44

find. I'd draft Rake May in the first

26:46

round of the draft, and I'd pair them together

26:49

and hope it works for the next ten years. Like that's

26:51

that's what I would personally do. But

26:54

I have to look at it from all angles. And

26:56

the intriguing part of Mike Rabel,

26:58

I think at this point is actually

27:01

who is rumored to be connected to him for

27:03

general manager, and that's Adam

27:05

Peters out in San Francisco, who's the assistant

27:07

general manager of the forty nine Ers. Adam

27:10

Peters and Mike Rabel overlapped here in

27:12

New England when Rabel was a player and Adam

27:14

Peters was in the scouting department here in

27:17

New England. So they have a relationship

27:19

that goes back aways and apparently they're

27:22

not I don't know if they're the best of friends or

27:24

anything like that, but they have stayed connected

27:27

in the NFL world since then.

27:29

So if you're telling me that the Patriots

27:32

ticket right for these next

27:34

couple of years in this rebuild is Mike

27:37

Frable and Adam Peters, I

27:40

think you can do a whole lot worse, a

27:42

whole lot worse. And that is a really

27:44

intriguing pitch to have those

27:46

two guys together, because I do respect Frabel's

27:49

ability to you know, lead men

27:51

and coach a football team and control

27:54

a room and you know, get the most

27:56

out of players and things like that, and

27:58

I think Adam Peters is probably the

28:00

hottest general manager candidate

28:03

on the market, So you're getting the number

28:05

one guy in my mind on that side

28:07

of things, and then you're probably getting like

28:09

the second or third hottest guy and the

28:11

coaching side of things. So you can't go

28:14

wrong with that, And I wouldn't be disappointed

28:16

by it by any means, but I would still

28:18

be skeptical and have to wait and

28:21

see how they plan on building

28:23

the offense and then how they developed the quarterback

28:25

and how they put up pieces around

28:27

him to succeed. Because if

28:30

it was Tennessee the last couple of years that John

28:33

the last time Tennessee scored thirty points in

28:35

the game was like two and a half years ago, right,

28:37

right, Like they haven't I.

28:39

Think, yeah, we saw that, We're

28:41

used to that this year, right.

28:42

Yeah.

28:42

They haven't been good on offense for a couple of years

28:44

now either. Now, they had injuries at

28:46

quarterback, right Ryan Tannehill hasn't been healthy,

28:49

But they haven't really solved their quarterback

28:51

problems, whether it as Malik will As Will Levis

28:53

whoever, either. So I'm

28:56

still a little bit skeptical that Tennessee

28:59

is this great. You know model

29:01

of offensive innovation and

29:03

success.

29:04

So I would tend to agree with that.

29:06

Let me ask you this, then ye out there

29:09

potentially available to come in and assist in

29:11

personnel, take over GM whatever we're

29:13

gonna call it here, could work

29:16

with Bill the same way that Peters

29:18

would work potentially with a guy

29:20

like Mike Rabel.

29:21

It's a good question. I would say that

29:23

guys that unfortunately for better

29:25

awards I shouldn't say unfortunately for better or

29:27

worse. Bill is not going to hire

29:29

outside his circle of trust, right Like, you're

29:32

just not going to see him hire some

29:35

you know guy from Philadelphia or Kansas

29:37

City or something like that that he's never worked

29:39

with, that he doesn't know. It's just not happening. So

29:42

to limit that talent pool, I

29:44

think you're looking at, you know, guys

29:46

that have been here before. I would say

29:48

that John Robinson's probably the best

29:50

candidate. Thomas de Mittrov has

29:52

been out of it for a couple of years, but maybe

29:54

he's someone that wants to get back into it. I think Scott

29:57

Pioli, you know, he was the assistant

29:59

GM and in Atlanta to Thomas

30:01

to Mitcheroff. He hasn't been in the

30:04

personnel since twenty twenty. You know, he's

30:06

been in TV and things like that, so

30:08

it's been a bit. But John Robinson

30:11

is somebody that I would consider a pretty strong

30:13

candidate. I think Dave Ziegler could

30:16

be a candidate, but from what I've

30:18

heard, I don't think that Bill particularly

30:21

loved how you know, Ziegler left

30:24

and then kind of took a lot of people with him, and

30:26

you know, same with McDaniels, you know, which is why I think

30:28

that that is water under the bridge

30:30

for McDaniels because of their relationship and how

30:32

far back they go. But I would

30:35

look at guys like that and say that

30:37

that's probably where they would head. Maybe

30:39

a Scott Pioli is more if they

30:42

wanted just call it like, you know, the Mike

30:44

Lombardi role, like just like an advisor to

30:46

the head coach and not necessarily a true

30:48

GM, maybe that's where he could get

30:50

involved. But if they really want to hire a

30:53

GM, you know, that has the title

30:55

and everything, then I think that guys

30:57

that have done it before recently, like

30:59

a Robinson or Dave Ziegler, is

31:01

probably the best bet.

31:03

All Right, there's so much more that you know, we're

31:06

gonna have a chance to get into and I know you guys will do it

31:08

and unfiltered. When's

31:10

your Catch twenty two gonna run during the off season?

31:13

So Catch twenty two right now is staying at

31:15

ten am on Thursdays, and

31:17

we'll see as long as there's no breaking

31:20

news in the next twelve hours twenty

31:22

four hours or so, then that's when it will

31:24

be tomorrow.

31:25

Yeah, because I think we need to.

31:26

We also at the same time, can currently work

31:28

on what kind of direction that you know, the team,

31:31

especially the offense may try to have to

31:33

head here in the off season order to become competitive,

31:36

which is what everybody wants here. That's why

31:38

you compete, That's why you go out and you play. You ought to be

31:40

competitive. You want to try to win, and how the Patriots get

31:42

back there. So we'll save that conversation

31:44

one of the time, and I hope that you and I

31:46

will get a chance to visit around our off season edition

31:49

of the playbook as well, because we move

31:51

to a monthly program beginning in

31:53

February at least until we get to a training camp

31:55

next year. So thank you so much for you

31:57

know, spending your time on the show here at least during the

31:59

course of the regular season. And I think

32:02

one final word about the game this past Sunday,

32:04

which is what we usually try to summarize

32:06

when we meet on Wednesdays here, But it's

32:09

stunk and I'm glad it's over.

32:11

Yeah.

32:12

Yeah, that game was

32:14

was tough to really evaluate

32:17

watching it back, John, because the snow

32:19

conditions were just like, how much are

32:21

you really going to glean from that game?

32:23

Right?

32:23

It's a meaningless Week eighteen game where

32:27

the snow just really I think limited

32:29

what both teams were capable of doing

32:32

offensively, and I do

32:34

have questions about what they did defensively.

32:36

You know that I thought that they kind of let Bresall

32:38

run the ball on them a little bit, and I

32:41

was surprised that they didn't

32:43

really adjust and didn't really stack the box.

32:46

You were worried that Trevor Simeon was going to throw

32:48

the ball down the field on you or something like that.

32:50

So that was surprising that they didn't

32:53

commit more resources and adapt

32:56

a little bit to what the Jets were doing in the run

32:58

game offensively pay defense.

33:01

But in general, I kind of chalk

33:03

that game up to a throwaway and

33:05

I'm not really looking too much at that tape.

33:07

Yeah, I would have to agree with you. And I thought that was the first

33:10

thing I thought of, you.

33:11

Know, when Hall kept getting you know, the ball

33:13

and I kept playing you know, Breese haul

33:15

the ball carrier, and I'm just like, wow, are they going

33:17

to let anybody else touch it? And then we discovered

33:19

obviously when we broke off the fifty yarder, nobody

33:21

else needed to touch it. They got done what they

33:24

needed to get done. And and again, if

33:26

there was something to you know, like playing next week,

33:28

we'd be discussing that. But I think there is

33:30

there's a bigger fish to fry, as the saying goes,

33:33

and thank you, well, we'll talk

33:35

again soon.

33:35

My man, anytime, anytime.

33:37

You got it all right?

33:38

That is, of course Evan Lazar at

33:40

Easy Lazar on Exit, where you'll find

33:43

a lot of his stuff, and certainly you will find actually

33:45

he's got to right up now on

33:47

the website here on Patriots dot Com.

33:49

He's got the season in review, and he's.

33:51

Got some thoughts on players that he feels,

33:53

you know, could potentially be back on

33:56

the roster. And again, a lot of it depends on who's

33:58

to see him, certainly, and

34:00

who also is the head

34:02

coach next year? All right, let's get

34:04

some some other views on this, because

34:07

obviously there are varying viewpoints that we wanted

34:09

to try to touch on a little bit in all

34:11

directions here as to which step the Patriots

34:13

really need to take, should take,

34:16

maybe even will take over the course

34:18

of the next few days and even weeks. This

34:20

may not go as quickly as

34:23

anybody really wants it to go.

34:25

That was one of the things I wanted to stress off the top.

34:27

And even though I said, look, hey, if

34:29

it's not decided in the first forty eight hours or

34:31

so, it's likely going to be close

34:33

to status COVID, does I mean there's going to be some

34:36

change. Phil Perry obviously covers

34:38

the Patriots and has done so for a long time for NBC

34:40

Sports Boston. He's been a program

34:43

guest here on Patriots Playbook. He's kind

34:45

enough to join us here on Undoubtedly what's a

34:47

busy time? You know, Phil, you're on the you're

34:50

on the Patriots beat, and generally when

34:52

the season's over, you

34:55

might get a little time off, or you a little downtime,

34:57

or you'll try to recharge batteries. And

35:00

even though this team isn't going into the postseason. Clearly,

35:03

this could be a major, major

35:05

move and you're kind

35:07

of a front and center right now in terms of trying

35:09

to figure out which step this team takes next.

35:12

Yeah, there's no rest for the weary John,

35:15

right. Yeah, But it's a fun time, it's

35:17

an interesting time. It's clearly

35:19

a different it's been a different year, never mind

35:21

right now, but it's been a different year covering

35:23

this team. And they're

35:26

never not interesting, right John,

35:28

It's just they are never not interesting. In

35:30

the next week or so here, I

35:32

think it's going to be met with real change

35:34

and it'll be interesting to see where the Patriots go next.

35:37

All Right, So I know, I'm

35:39

pretty sure. I think I know which way you

35:41

lean on this. When you say real

35:44

change, does that include at head

35:46

coach? And if it doesn't include head

35:48

coach? Is there a workable scenario

35:50

something that Evan Lazarre and I just kind of talked about a little

35:53

bit. Is there a workable scenario that includes

35:55

Bill staying on as coach?

35:58

I believe the real change includes moving

36:01

on from Bill Belichick as head coach and general

36:03

manager. That's the expectation from

36:05

a number of different people that I've spoken to in

36:08

the building, and while everyone is still awaiting

36:10

official word from the Craft, it's my understanding

36:13

that, you know, what's being hammered

36:15

out right now is a way to figure out how

36:17

to end the relationship, not how to save it.

36:19

And so I believe they'll

36:22

be looking for a new head coach sometimes

36:24

soon here, and they'll adhere to the Rooney rule and

36:26

go through an interview process and all of that.

36:28

But you know, basically

36:31

a generation with one person

36:33

running the entire football operation. He Bill

36:35

Belichick was the football operation

36:38

in New England for a long long time. That's

36:40

a difficult marriage to dissolve,

36:43

and it's a complicated relationship to

36:45

end. And so that's why I think we're

36:47

waiting a little while right now. I

36:50

don't have a great sense for what the timeline

36:52

is, John is at the end of this week? Is

36:54

it next week? Do they wait after the

36:57

wild card games to finish to see

36:59

if you know, Bill Belichick might be able

37:01

to be traded so that they can get something for this

37:04

asset. If you want to look at Bill Belichick in those terms

37:07

that they still have under contract, I

37:09

think all those things are in play. I don't have a great feel

37:11

for the timeline right now, but it's my

37:13

expectation that they move on from Bill Belichick in

37:15

the near future.

37:16

Here, Bill, don't the NFL rules

37:18

to interview other coaches state

37:21

that you have to wait at least until the wildcard round

37:23

is completed.

37:26

No, there are ways to

37:29

virtually interview coaches as soon

37:31

as right now if you're not in the playoff race,

37:33

So both coaching

37:37

and general manager

37:39

interviews. That

37:42

process has started,

37:44

and especially if you're talking about internal candidates,

37:46

which I think is pertinent to the

37:48

Patriots situation, those people

37:51

can be interviewed at any time. So again,

37:53

this is a process that has started in some other places

37:55

already, And whenever the

37:57

Patriots decide to make the move

38:00

on Bill Belichick official, you know they'll they'll

38:03

be beginning that process soon thereafter, I'm

38:05

sure as well.

38:06

Could it also be, again I'm

38:08

just throwing out possibilities here. Could it also

38:10

be that they're again trying to do their

38:12

due diligence on candidates

38:14

outside of the organization, and if they're

38:16

involved in the postseason

38:18

at some point, then potentially I don't

38:20

think you can be talked to until your season's over.

38:25

Well, it's interesting you know it's different for

38:28

general managers and head coaches. I know that you know,

38:30

for instance, the Niners, who are obviously you

38:32

know still in the postseason that Adam Peters

38:34

is one of the hottest GM candidates out there. He

38:36

interviewed just yesterday for the commander's

38:38

job. So obviously

38:41

the Patriot's gonna be looking for both of these things, and it would

38:43

behoove them to start these searches

38:45

as soon as humanly possible. And

38:50

that said, I would add that

38:52

if they feel strongly about people

38:54

internally, my guess is they

38:56

won't be in the same kind of time crunch

38:58

that other teams will.

39:00

John.

39:00

So if you're looking at

39:02

this from Robert Craft's perspective, this is

39:04

a transition that you have been anticipating

39:06

for some time. Bill Belichick's obviously

39:09

in his seventies, you had to have some sort of

39:11

contingency plan in mind for

39:14

whenever you were going to move on from Bill Belichick.

39:16

And I think the timeline has been expedited based

39:18

on how bad the team was this year. But

39:23

I think they are comfortable with whatever

39:25

comes next because they've been thinking about it already,

39:27

and I don't think we have to do all that much digging to try

39:30

to determine, you know, what they've been thinking about

39:32

it. They made it very clear that they felt strongly

39:34

about Trod Mayo. Just last off season, they hadn't even

39:36

signed him to an extension, yet they made an announcement, they

39:38

released a statement thing that they were planning

39:40

to that they were working on an extension

39:43

with Gerrod Mayo. You know, these are bavvy

39:46

business people, Robert Craft and Jonathan Kraft.

39:48

They are planning well in advance and

39:50

probably have been longer than anybody knows. And

39:53

so I think they have a good idea of where they want

39:55

to go next. And I don't think even though they will

39:57

have to go through an interview process and I'm sure they'll

39:59

be open, I think they have an

40:01

idea already as to where they're going to go next

40:03

after Bill Belichick.

40:05

Yeah, and that's one thing I think that we've maintained

40:07

all along.

40:07

We can all sort of agree to disagree

40:09

about, you know, the particulars and the personnel

40:11

and the.

40:13

People that are actually involved.

40:15

But the one thing you cannot question is

40:19

I think the crafts and craft

40:21

sports and entertainment.

40:23

I don't think you can question that.

40:25

They don't know what they're doing, because

40:27

they wouldn't have turned their original one

40:29

hundred and seventy million dollar investment in

40:32

this organization over thirty years

40:34

ago into a seven billion dollar

40:36

property according to Forbes at

40:38

last valuation without knowing

40:41

they know what to do, So clearly

40:43

I think they are half a step ahead of it. And maybe

40:46

it's actually them who are playing chess while everybody

40:48

else is playing checkers. And we're going to use that analogy

40:51

here because that's just how

40:53

they get to be successful, and that's how the Patriots

40:55

have done. And the road over the last three

40:58

or four years has been very, very difficult,

41:00

and so this process has probably been

41:02

going on for longer than even maybe we realize.

41:06

Yeah, I think that's fair to say, John, And I think you

41:08

know, when something like what happened yesterday

41:10

happens where Mike Vrabel for

41:12

a lot of people unexpectedly becomes

41:15

available, I do think it's totally legitimate

41:17

for all of us to look at it and say, well,

41:20

no matter how well laid out your

41:22

plans were, Robert and Jonathan,

41:25

is it not worth considering this

41:27

new option that has just presented itself

41:30

to you. It isn't part of being a good business

41:32

person reacting to the situations at

41:34

hand in real time and making

41:36

the best.

41:36

Call for your organization.

41:38

I think that's a.

41:38

Totally fair thing to say, and I think

41:40

Mike Vrabel would be a great fit on a lot of different

41:42

fronts.

41:43

But I do think.

41:44

That the planning has

41:46

been significant enough that it would

41:49

be surprising to me if Mike

41:51

Rabel's availability moves the

41:53

Crafts off their spot, and if it

41:56

forces them to take

41:58

a different path than the one that they have been planning.

42:02

How were you taking aback or were

42:04

you at all by what Bill had to say on Monday

42:07

this week and the season ending, you

42:09

know news Coverers that he had with you guys,

42:11

Were you at all surprised by anything

42:13

he had to say?

42:16

Well, anytime he mentioned his contract, John, I

42:18

think that is surprising.

42:19

You know, we'd have to say that because he never does that.

42:21

You're right, yeah, yeah, that he would

42:23

even acknowledge that he's, you know, what his contract

42:26

status is, and that he's under contract

42:28

for twenty twenty four, you know.

42:29

So that was a surprise.

42:31

I would also add that his tone

42:34

to me now, the content of his answer

42:37

probably if you look at it

42:39

in print, shouldn't

42:41

come as a surprise. But his tone when

42:43

he was asked about whether or not he would be open

42:46

to giving up personnel

42:49

responsibilities for the Patriots

42:51

was surprising to me because it was the tone

42:53

of a guy who's founded open to change.

42:56

Now, he didn't say that, he

42:58

didn't say that he would be willing to

43:01

give that up. He talked about a collaborative process.

43:04

He would be part of that collaboration, you know,

43:06

as they stand right now with him under contract.

43:09

So again, the words themselves, if

43:11

you go back and read them, maybe not surprising,

43:14

but that tone that he struck, that was the kind of question

43:16

John's that I heard. And my assumption

43:18

was, having covered hundreds of Bill Belichick

43:21

press conferences and conference calls, I thought

43:23

for sure that would be met with a yeah,

43:25

we're not going to get into a whole lot of hypothetical

43:28

situations here today and move

43:30

on to the next question.

43:32

But it wasn't.

43:33

It was I'm open to

43:35

doing what's best for the football team, essentially,

43:37

and so that served as a surprise

43:39

to me too. I would just say that overall

43:42

the messaging that I thought was coming from Bill

43:44

Belichick's pres conference, remember that comment that

43:46

he's under contract. That came in his opening statement.

43:48

He wasn't asked about his contract. He was planning on

43:50

saying that before he got to us, And

43:53

so to me, the messaging was, I'm

43:56

here, this is still my job. I will treat

43:58

it as my job until it's no longer my job.

44:00

And if it's not my job in

44:03

the near future here, that's not

44:05

my call. That's somebody else's

44:07

decision. That's going to be on ownership.

44:09

So don't look at me if I'm no longer the

44:11

new England Patriots head coach, you

44:14

know not And so not saying that in so many

44:16

words, but essentially I thought the message was that's

44:19

that's not what I want, that's maybe

44:21

what they want. If that's the ultimate result.

44:23

Sure, and and I think I can certainly understand

44:26

why that would be a plausible,

44:29

you know, description of what transpired.

44:31

I think it can go both ways, based

44:33

on on on what I know of Coach Belichick

44:36

and how he's handled things in the past.

44:38

But I think we all know he's an extraordinarily

44:40

smart man. And anytime you can

44:43

gain the upper hand or at least

44:45

prepare yourself for what you know is inevitable

44:47

going to come, You're going to do what you can to

44:50

you know, put the onus on the other guy. It's

44:52

all part of playing the game. This is business,

44:54

This is the business of sport,

44:56

the business of football, and you

44:59

have to look out for number one in that regard. And I

45:02

can certainly understand why he would have said

45:04

that and put that into play when he has never done

45:06

that before.

45:08

No question, I wouldn't regredge

45:10

him that at all. And it's

45:12

you know, I thought it was probably a smart move on his

45:14

part to get out in front

45:17

of it and send his message

45:19

early, you know, seven thirty am, meeting

45:21

with the media in

45:23

all likelihood before he

45:25

had his meeting with the Crafts. And he

45:27

said in that conference call that it could be multiple

45:29

meetings. And I've heard the same things, you

45:32

know, since then that they'll probably

45:35

be in communication more than once here

45:37

as they figure out how

45:39

to handle this moving forward. But no, I

45:41

don't blame him at all. He's obviously no stranger

45:44

to the business of football, and it

45:46

is I think hard for us to remember that

45:48

sometimes, and these are business people who are

45:51

ultimately, at the end of the day, running the organization.

45:53

And so this is something that was told

45:56

to me before this season even

45:58

began. But if you're Robert cry if you're

46:00

Jonathan Craft, and you have a number of different

46:02

companies and you're trying

46:04

to determine, you know, how you want to

46:06

handle your essentially

46:08

your CEO position or

46:10

any major executive position. Would

46:13

you rather have

46:15

a succession plan in place and give

46:18

the job to someone who has been working

46:20

under that CEO for some period of time,

46:22

or would you rather hire another CEO

46:25

from another company, from another business and then

46:27

teach them everything that

46:29

it is that you would like them to know

46:32

as they run your business

46:34

in a new role, and so that

46:37

you know, that sort of analogy was

46:39

presented to me when when I started asking about,

46:41

well, you know, if Felichick, if

46:43

it doesn't work out this year and he's not back, you

46:45

know who out there, who across the league

46:48

would they be looking at?

46:48

How many?

46:49

How many coaches did they even have great relationships

46:51

with? Now Mike Brabell would be one of them, which I think, again,

46:54

you know, there's a reason why we're all talking

46:56

about him today. But when you had

46:58

one head coach for so long, how

47:00

many coaches out there head coaching

47:03

with head coaching experience to even really know, and

47:05

that's how it was pointed out to me. Hey, they run a number

47:08

of businesses, do they if they ever have to

47:10

replace an executive with another executive? Would

47:12

they rather pull somebody from from Coke

47:14

or Apple to all of a

47:16

sudden run their business and learn anything or or or

47:19

learn everything? Or would they rather elevate from

47:21

within? And I think that's what they're going to end up doing

47:23

here.

47:23

And I think ironically that's the way the football operation

47:26

is always run. They elevate, they elevate

47:28

from within. The problem is, and I

47:30

do want to deal with a little bit of hypothetical for

47:32

just a minute here, Phil, because I know you're good

47:34

at that, and that's fine.

47:35

I think this is what fans want to talk about.

47:37

But you know, this

47:40

may have something to do with how bills you know, tenure

47:43

here and his career got derailed

47:45

to begin with, because when they kept

47:47

dipping into the well to replace guys who are

47:49

leaving and moving on, at

47:51

some point in time, you've got to teach

47:53

too much and there's just not enough you

47:56

know, depth of perception or

47:58

knowledge that's you know, left behind

48:00

in order to continue to do the job at the

48:03

rate to which you are used to having it done.

48:05

I'm wondering, in.

48:06

Your opinion, what in particular

48:09

might have set Bill on this path toward destruction,

48:12

so to speak, if he is not back

48:14

as the head coach.

48:16

I think it's a couple of decisions.

48:20

It's probably you'd have to start with

48:23

the Tom Brady decision and the fact that that

48:25

went the way it did, even though I was somebody who

48:27

at the time understood, I understood

48:30

the desire to

48:32

move on at that point in time and to look for something

48:34

fresh, and I with someone who said,

48:36

listen to program has been

48:39

what it's been for a long period of time. And

48:41

it's not just because of the quarterback. You

48:43

know, they typically have an idea of

48:46

what they have coming next, They have succession

48:48

plans in place, and this is a well thought

48:50

out operation and they'll

48:53

survive, and even if it's not great early,

48:55

they might be better off for it if

48:58

they just rip the band aid off and

49:00

begin again. That obviously

49:02

wasn't the case, and obviously that hurt Robert Kraft

49:04

the way that thing ended with Tom Brady, and

49:06

he goes on and he wins.

49:07

The Super Bowl, so that starts

49:10

it. But I think it's the overall.

49:12

Handling of that position, John, and I think

49:14

it's as the most recent

49:16

example and it's probably the strongest example

49:19

of no coach

49:22

is safe if they can't get the quarterback position

49:24

right, not even the greatest of all time. And

49:28

you could make the argument that they got it right in

49:30

twenty twenty one with Mac Jones, based on the rookie

49:32

season he had. But it's not just drafting

49:34

the guy, it's not just finding him, it's developing

49:37

him. It's surrounding him with the right people. And so the

49:39

decisions to surround mac Jones with the coaches

49:42

that he surrounded him with in year two, the

49:44

loss of confidence that he experienced

49:46

that led to a spiral in his play and

49:49

led to really the Patriots not being

49:51

able to compete in some of these games that they competed

49:53

on the scoreboard, but offensively they

49:56

were the expansion

49:58

level at best at times this year we all

50:00

saw. And so you're

50:02

asking the defense to do other worldly things

50:04

and you know, pitch shutouts and try to score defensively

50:07

just to try to win games. That's not how it should work.

50:09

And know he's NFL. So I don't think it was

50:11

that many decisions. It was probably two or

50:13

three. They all happened on the offensive

50:15

side of the ball, and I think that's why the Patriots

50:18

are where they are right now, why the Craft are looking through

50:20

bought.

50:21

Yeah.

50:22

I think there's one statement

50:24

that that coach Belichick made and I don't

50:26

even remember the exact moment, but when he made

50:28

it, I remember thinking to myself,

50:30

Phil and everything, oh, this might be problematic.

50:33

When he said when there was some

50:36

some internal discussion and certainly

50:38

external discussion within the media about who's

50:41

going to come in and be the offensive coordinator

50:43

after Josh mcgainn has left for the Raiders,

50:45

and he said, well, you know, as far as I'm concerned,

50:48

football coaches coach football. Uh

50:51

oh, that one, ding

50:53

ding ding. The alarm in my head on that one. And then

50:55

of course obviously ended up becoming Matta Patricia

50:58

that ends up making the calls on offense, and criticize

51:01

that for whatever reason you want, but it

51:03

just kind of told me that, you know, I don't

51:05

know if this was a bottom line decision based

51:08

on money. I don't know if it's because he

51:10

truly believed that, or if he was

51:12

just doing a favor for a guy who.

51:14

Had been loyal to him. In his past.

51:15

I guess you could probably say a little bit of everything kind of

51:17

went into that decision.

51:19

But that's the one to me.

51:21

And then that's of course when Max started to

51:23

stumble, if he hadn't already started,

51:25

certainly began from that point forward

51:28

that you kind of look back and say, you wait a second, we

51:30

need to go back here. And Man, if I had to do over,

51:33

I think I would. I think I would put one in right

51:35

there.

51:36

Yeah, I think I think it was basically

51:38

an overestimation of Matt Patricia's

51:40

ability to do what Noe Belichick needed

51:43

him to do, which was not only coordinate the offense.

51:45

But install a new offense.

51:47

Yeah, they didn't want to run the tom Brady

51:50

offense anymore, even though mac Jones had success

51:52

with it. And when I was told by you know, assistance on

51:54

that staff he was running our offense,

51:56

he was. It wasn't It didn't have quite

51:58

the breast that obviously in

52:00

the volume that it had when Tom Brady was

52:02

here. But it was the Patriots offense as

52:05

tom Brady ran it, and he had a lot of responsibilities

52:07

that the line of scrimmage, and of course he had a lot of help from Josh

52:10

McDaniels and others on that offensive staff, But

52:12

he was making all the checks and he

52:15

was asked to be accurate and a pretty good decision maker,

52:17

and obviously he had his hiccups, especially

52:19

down the stretch of that rookie season, but he

52:21

impressed a lot of people on that staff who,

52:24

in all honesty, I don't think we're all that enamored

52:27

with him when he first got to them, but

52:29

he won them over with the way he prepared

52:31

and the way he worked and the way he improved and

52:33

was able to obviously beat out Cam Newton and end up taking

52:35

that job. But I think it was just an overestimation.

52:38

It was putting too much on Matt Patricia.

52:40

You know, they did have it, ironically, we're talking about

52:42

elevating from within. They did

52:44

have a guy who's considered a

52:46

pretty good offensive line

52:49

and still relatively young, who was

52:51

on the staff and would have been able to kind of

52:53

maintain that McDaniel's system because

52:55

he was so important to helping

52:57

McDaniel's game plan. I know he's a big part of the red

52:59

zone offfense preparation week to week. Was

53:01

Nick keyley Ye, who was who

53:04

was one of the few who didn't leave for Vegas

53:06

with Josh McDaniels. Bill Belichick

53:08

wanted him to stick around and coach the tight ends

53:10

last year. He's now out in LA. He's coaching

53:12

the tight ends in LA under Sean McVay. But

53:15

he is considered a pretty you

53:17

know, young and impressive up and coming offensive

53:21

coordinator potentially in the near future, maybe

53:23

even head coach. You know, you' se him on a lot of these lists that get

53:25

released by the league and by NFL

53:27

media about you know, guys to keep an eye on. They had Nick

53:30

Kayley here, and they opted to go with Matt

53:32

Patricia instead and choose a different offense to

53:34

try to teach everyone. I think Bill Belichick thought

53:36

Matt was the better option because that's the thing

53:38

he wanted to do, and it ended up blowing

53:41

up in his face.

53:42

Sure, all right, one more quick go for

53:44

you, Phil, and again, thank you for the time today.

53:46

Your your opinions mean a lot here.

53:48

If this change is made

53:50

and with Mike Rabel's name

53:52

jumping into the mix, what does this

53:55

do for Gerard Mayo's opportunity

53:57

or at least are alleged to, you know, thinking

54:00

of an opportunity to become the next Patriots

54:02

head coach.

54:04

You know, I'm not sure changes it all that significantly.

54:07

I think he's still the

54:10

betting favorite to be the next

54:12

head coach of the Patriots, and

54:14

I think because of the way he has been

54:17

perceived by ownership again for some

54:19

time now, going back to that statement that was made

54:21

last offseason, I would

54:24

say he's still the favorite now.

54:26

Doesn't mean they won't consider Mike Rabel and others,

54:28

and again doesn't mean they won't go through an interview

54:30

process they have to by rule. Yeah,

54:33

but Mayo has impressed them

54:36

significantly in his time obviously

54:38

as a player, but in his time with the team now

54:41

as head coach or excuse me, as

54:44

a coach, I should say, as a potential

54:46

future head coach. I mean again, Robert Kraft has been

54:48

open about how he views

54:50

Mayo as head coaching material,

54:53

and so I think that's been the plan.

54:55

I think that's been in the works for some time, and

54:58

I'm not sure that Mike rabel availed ability

55:00

will necessarily move

55:02

them and force them to be er off course.

55:05

Just for your edification for anybody who's paying

55:08

attention on here, I got the latest

55:10

odds on next Patriots head

55:12

coach from Bookies dot Com today.

55:14

How about that one?

55:15

What do we got?

55:15

What do we got?

55:17

Gerrodmeo is still the favorite

55:20

at plus one twenty five.

55:22

Uh.

55:22

The others on the list, some of them are surprising.

55:25

Mike Vrabel right now, to me is

55:28

a hell of a value pick because Bookies

55:30

dot Com has him at plus eighteen hundred.

55:34

Interesting. Yeah, it really interesting

55:37

between those two.

55:38

Oh yeah yeah, Kellen Moore,

55:41

Frank Smith, Zach Callahan,

55:43

Ben Johnson, Den Quinn,

55:46

Cliff Kingsbury.

55:49

Wow, those are all

55:51

names like,

55:54

uh, maybe maybe the if

55:56

you had no value pick right now, Yeah,

55:58

value pick I still view. I

56:01

would still say, uh, Mayo

56:03

looks like the option to me. But

56:05

but Rabel feels like number.

56:07

Two at worst.

56:09

So yeah, don't be don't be putting your money

56:12

on killing more out there people. That's all.

56:15

I was just gonna say, Wow, you know, either

56:17

they know something that we don't or whatever.

56:19

But I looked at that list, and which

56:22

is why I wanted to bring it up today, and I'm just like, dang,

56:24

you know, if if I were gonna do that, I'd

56:27

have to consider, seriously consider uh

56:30

Ravees on this one, because just

56:32

of everything that's transpired over the last twenty four hours.

56:36

I don't think I don't think

56:38

that's the bad that's a bad way

56:41

to go about it. I

56:42

h yeah, I just

56:44

did some of the other names. To me, it would be a it would

56:46

be a two name list. If I was running bookies

56:48

dot Com, I'd eliminate every other name on there.

56:51

Yeah, I think I kind of would too. But I know

56:53

they're in the business of making money, aren't we.

56:55

All right, I guess hey, I guess you're right if you can swindle

56:57

people into.

57:03

Yeah, right and la.

57:04

Quite honestly, I didn't even really recognize what

57:07

was that word you used, swindling?

57:10

Maybe Bill Callahan's done.

57:12

Yeah, Hey, news to me,

57:14

I'm like, okay, if you think so.

57:17

But again, you know, how many times have you

57:19

know, we have marveled at the fact that, you know,

57:22

Vegas knows the points spreads when we are sure

57:24

something's gonna go a certain way, and yet it

57:26

always ends up bouncing out to a point spread,

57:29

usually for all of a sudden done when it comes to

57:31

you know, games weekend.

57:32

And week out, there's a there's

57:34

a reason we're going out there

57:36

for the super Bowl. In a couple of weeks. It's

57:38

uh, they've been It's a city that's been

57:40

built by some smart people.

57:42

Yeah, yeah, I would say, so that's why

57:44

they've got all these teams and all these people out

57:46

there, and yeah, that's why they're.

57:47

It's still the hot thing. Phil.

57:49

Thank you again for the time today, Thank you for your

57:51

coverage throughout the course of the season. Thanks

57:53

for saying some time to visit with our fans here on Patriots

57:55

dot Com radio. Uh and uh, hey,

57:57

I know that the job isn't over yet,

58:00

won't be over probably for at least a little

58:02

bit. But when you do, I hope you get some downtime and

58:04

then we'll we'll tee it off and we'll

58:06

tee it up again in in August.

58:09

Sounds great, John, Happy to speak with you anytime.

58:11

Man.

58:11

Hope you're doing great, and.

58:14

Let's all buckle up.

58:15

It's gonna be a wild off season, so I'm sure your

58:17

listeners will be doing exactly that.

58:19

It will be historical because we just

58:21

haven't gone through this before, so

58:24

you know it just that's why it's

58:26

going to be interesting. And I would tell

58:28

you that even in all the supposition

58:30

and all the alleged this and

58:32

maybe that and everything that we're talking about. It's

58:34

been a hell of a lot more interesting than this

58:37

football season was.

58:39

There's no question, there's no question about that.

58:42

Thank you, Thanks Phil, John, I appreciate you man.

58:44

All right, Budd, I appreciate you. Thank you. That's

58:46

Phil Perry at Phil A. Perry

58:49

on x where you can find all of his.

58:51

Work, and obviously on Boston NBC

58:53

Sports Boston dot Com.

58:55

You know, I always share some really good insight. He and

58:57

Tom Kerrn, you know, do a pot

59:00

podcast together as well, which you know, I don't

59:02

mind promoting because it causes

59:04

conversation. It creates conversation for

59:06

all of us here, and I think that's really kind

59:09

of what we're in the business of doing,

59:11

is creating this conversation.

59:13

That's what we want to do. That's what we're in the

59:15

business of doing.

59:16

So as we get ready to embark upon our number

59:18

two in the playbook here for a Wednesday, I

59:20

get a little bit of a different start time, so if you're tuning.

59:23

In, you're wondering who the hell this is it.

59:25

Normally the playbook runs from two to four pm

59:27

on Wednesdays, but we slid into the OLDPU

59:30

time slot today because I've got college

59:32

basketball duties at Madison Square Garden tonight,

59:34

so I'll be on the mic for that one. And

59:37

we decided and this is our normal time

59:39

slot again anyway during the

59:41

off season, and we don't even have

59:43

the dates for the off season shows yet. Marine,

59:46

I don't think we've discussed this yet, you and I so, but

59:49

it will begin in February, and we'll go

59:51

monthly for a playbook

59:54

program. We'll do a live

59:56

show. Usually it's the last Wednesday

59:59

of the month. One or two slight

1:00:01

variations depending on off

1:00:04

season vacations and things along those lines, but

1:00:06

primarily the last Wednesday of

1:00:08

a month, and we do that February

1:00:11

through August, and then we launch

1:00:14

week one of the NFL season and we'll

1:00:16

go back to our weekly program during the

1:00:18

regular seasons. I think last count

1:00:20

that brings me to like seven off season

1:00:22

programs. So you can't be with us live

1:00:25

on that last Wednesday of a month. Hey, the podcast

1:00:27

will always be here, and I hope that you'll download the

1:00:29

podcast, and if you have comments one

1:00:31

way or the other, look the phone lines when

1:00:34

we do a show and we do it live here, they're always

1:00:36

open. I know that you guys know that on PU

1:00:39

it's the same way here. You know in the playbook

1:00:41

eight five five Pats five hundred

1:00:44

eight five five Pats five hundred.

1:00:46

You can always reach the program web.

1:00:48

Radio at Patriots dot com

1:00:50

on email and then especially during

1:00:53

the off season when we only do the monthly show.

1:00:55

You got something on your mind and you want to, you know,

1:00:57

share it or criticize it or

1:01:00

comment on it, hit me up

1:01:02

on x at JR Broadcaster formerly

1:01:05

Twitter dot com, but hit me up on my handle

1:01:07

on that one, and or you.

1:01:09

Can post on my Facebook page.

1:01:11

I still keep Facebook around because I

1:01:13

like sharing pictures, so that's kind of my

1:01:15

thing, and I have.

1:01:16

An Instagram as well.

1:01:17

It's also at JR Broadcaster, so you

1:01:19

can follow there as well, and we

1:01:21

can do the off season things. And I do sort of I

1:01:23

do read. I don't know if you know this or not.

1:01:25

I do read everything that you said, whether

1:01:28

it's a a post, whether it's

1:01:30

a tweet, whether it's an email.

1:01:32

I read it all.

1:01:33

And then there are a few of them, quite honestly

1:01:35

that I like to kind of save and pull

1:01:37

around because it gives me a topic of conversation

1:01:39

to move on in because we don't know which direction

1:01:42

we're going to really go, and a lot of shows during

1:01:44

the off season depending on what happens.

1:01:46

Especially now, because there's

1:01:48

so much that's up in the air. I

1:01:51

mean, I told Phil just

1:01:54

a couple of months ago, this is historical.

1:01:57

Is this has never happened, what

1:01:59

we're doing here in this particular venue, This

1:02:02

has never happened in the sixty plus

1:02:04

year history of the New England Patriots. You

1:02:06

know, we've had Patriots dot Com Radio

1:02:09

since two thousand and

1:02:12

this program launched, Patriots Playbook

1:02:14

launched in two thousand and one, and

1:02:16

we've never had to go through anything like this because we've

1:02:19

always had Bill Belichick as a constant,

1:02:21

and we've always had Patriots success as

1:02:24

a constant. And now

1:02:27

the success has waned over

1:02:30

the last three to four years. And

1:02:34

sure, I mean, if you're any other franchise in the

1:02:36

NFL, if you're any other professional franchise, especially

1:02:38

when you're used to a certain success

1:02:41

level, and you go multiple years

1:02:44

successive multiple years

1:02:47

without achieving close to that success,

1:02:49

change is going to occur. That

1:02:52

is a natural way to

1:02:54

go about doing business in the business

1:02:57

of sport, whether it's pro or college

1:02:59

sports. Nowadays, think we all realize that the

1:03:01

game of college athletics has changed

1:03:03

tremendously, uh in the last few

1:03:05

years, just

1:03:07

because of the amount of money involved.

1:03:09

We've seen it.

1:03:10

You know.

1:03:10

You've got conferences you know

1:03:12

that are imploding after over one hundred

1:03:15

years of history.

1:03:18

The PAC twelve is is no longer,

1:03:21

you know, and you've got nil which you know rules

1:03:23

it, you know, because players now and athletes get paid

1:03:26

you know, for you know, name, image and lightness

1:03:29

and so, I mean, the entire sports

1:03:31

world is changing. Why shouldn't

1:03:34

professional sports be the same. And if

1:03:36

you've never gone through this, why shouldn't the

1:03:38

Patriots go through what other teams, other organizations,

1:03:41

other sports have gone through. That's what we're

1:03:43

going through. It's just different if

1:03:45

you're a Patriots fan. We haven't gone through this before.

1:03:48

Dakota Randall covers the Patriots for nesson

1:03:51

the New England Sports Network and nesson

1:03:53

dot com and he enjoined us up next here, you

1:03:55

know, in the playbook. Hey, Dakota, how goes the

1:03:57

battle today?

1:04:00

Doing all right?

1:04:00

Doing all right? Just trying to stay above water down

1:04:02

here on island with all the flooding. But I'm doing all

1:04:04

right?

1:04:05

How are you?

1:04:06

Wow?

1:04:06

So you you got it where

1:04:08

you are in Rhode Island.

1:04:10

Oh yeah, yeah, that's that's some pretty immense

1:04:12

flooding going on, and even though the rain

1:04:15

stops, it's actually getting worse because of the river

1:04:17

level. So yeah, an interesting day down here.

1:04:19

Yeah, well, I'm not surprised even

1:04:21

in New York that was they've

1:04:23

shut down a bunch of streets in Brooklyn and

1:04:26

what have you because of the everything that rolled through

1:04:28

last night. So one of those things that we have to

1:04:30

kind of deal with at this time of year.

1:04:32

Especially.

1:04:32

I'm just glad it's not six feet of snow out there

1:04:34

right now. So that's that's the only good thing that I

1:04:37

can see.

1:04:37

Out of this.

1:04:38

What's your Let's let's let's start

1:04:40

with your your your thoughts overall on

1:04:44

I guess the starting and then all

1:04:46

of a sudden stopping of the process

1:04:48

toward next year for the New

1:04:50

England Patriots, certainly revolving around whether or

1:04:53

not Bill Belichick will be the head coach going

1:04:55

forward, or if there's somebody else in mind

1:04:57

that the organization has in

1:05:00

mind for themselves.

1:05:01

Where do you stand on this?

1:05:02

Do you feel like Bill has a legit chance to come

1:05:05

back, or do you feel like, yeah, it's time to

1:05:07

kind of rip off the band aid and let's let's move

1:05:09

on with this.

1:05:10

Yeah.

1:05:11

I mean it's fascinating, right, And I

1:05:13

think I, like like a lot of people around here, I've kind

1:05:15

of gone back and forth on it, you know, And one of

1:05:17

my main thoughts, you know, as recently as

1:05:20

you know the start of this week, was I just

1:05:22

don't know where their

1:05:24

immediate upgrade is. Like, yeah, it's easy to say move

1:05:26

on from Bill Belichick, but you know what options

1:05:29

are out there and do they make you any better?

1:05:31

Is there any quick fix? Including Gerard

1:05:33

Mayo who doesn't have a ton of experience.

1:05:35

And I just thought there was a chance

1:05:38

that as we got closer to decision day

1:05:41

that I could see the craft thinking, like, you know,

1:05:43

our Bill is still our best chance.

1:05:44

At turning things around.

1:05:46

But I think you know that changed yesterday

1:05:48

with Mike brave Will becoming available. I think you have

1:05:50

to back to that in now. I know Tommy

1:05:53

Kern had a report last night that

1:05:55

he said that dog doesn't really change

1:05:57

for them if they still are kind of fixed on Mayo,

1:05:59

if they move on from Bill. But you know, I have to believe

1:06:01

the track record and the success of Rabel, you

1:06:04

know, has to change the calculus on some level

1:06:06

for me. You know, I don't know necessarily

1:06:09

if he would be an upgrade per se, but

1:06:11

I think he's a very very good coach, one of

1:06:13

the best in the league, and to me, that could

1:06:16

be what they need to do to turn picks around.

1:06:18

Yeah, I just I just thought, and again I

1:06:20

mentioned this earlier in the program to the Dakota

1:06:23

that, you know, when he was here for his Hall of

1:06:25

Fame induction speech. I

1:06:27

just I got the sense that while you know, if it ever

1:06:29

happened that Bill was going to step down,

1:06:32

that Mike Vrabel, if he were available, would

1:06:34

probably be a worthwhile successor

1:06:36

because.

1:06:36

He can combine, you know, a new look

1:06:39

and maybe a.

1:06:39

New new, newer philosophy along

1:06:42

with the way things have been

1:06:44

and the way the Patriots became the Patriots

1:06:47

because he was a part of that quote unquote

1:06:49

Patriot way, having been on Super

1:06:51

Bowl championship teams here in New England,

1:06:53

that would be a unique combination that

1:06:55

I quite frankly think that if you're if you're a smart

1:06:58

businessman, while reaching into the

1:07:00

pass to hold on a little bit of that, but looking toward the

1:07:02

future.

1:07:02

That's something that might be attractive to you.

1:07:05

I agree, And you know, I think in

1:07:08

many ways he just represents kind of

1:07:10

a modernized version of Bill Belichick. You know, I think

1:07:12

Mike Rabel's greatest strength, maybe it's

1:07:14

just his in game coaching and his in game management.

1:07:17

I think he's wanted, if not the very best

1:07:19

in the game right now. And I think you know that for so

1:07:21

long was the difference that Bill Belichick

1:07:23

made. But you know, with Mike Drabel, I think, you

1:07:25

know, he has embraced analytics, he has embraced

1:07:28

in some respects the modern direction of the NFL.

1:07:31

So I think he'd bring a lot of the things that made

1:07:33

Bill Belichick successful and then some of

1:07:35

them maybe the changes that people want to see. But you

1:07:37

know, on that note about the Hall of Fame

1:07:39

ceremony, I don't know if you saw

1:07:42

it all, but Dean Rappaport, shortly before

1:07:44

he got on the phone here, that that the

1:07:46

comments v Abel made during that halftime

1:07:48

speech in Foxborough played

1:07:51

a role in the Titans decision to fire him.

1:07:53

So I thought that was pretty interesting.

1:07:54

Wow, all right, well that is interesting because yeah,

1:07:57

we've talked about it here on this show. I've

1:07:59

written about it, I've got Yeah, you know, did

1:08:01

anybody else notice the fact that when

1:08:03

he said, hey, we're going to wrap this up, we have a

1:08:05

game to play here, was anybody else sort

1:08:07

of taken aback by that? And I made

1:08:09

that comment for two and a half months ago, and

1:08:12

now report's picking up on that.

1:08:14

That's freaking amazing, you know, yeah,

1:08:16

you.

1:08:16

Know, and I think it was one of those things that at the time

1:08:18

a lot of us sat up like, well, that's interesting,

1:08:21

but you kind of dismissed it because you're like, well, you know, at

1:08:23

that point, we're not really thinking this fans

1:08:25

still colgony war and we're not thinking it's a chance we're

1:08:27

able to get fired. But re connected

1:08:29

those dots, and so I think here in the here and

1:08:31

now, it's it's also fair to connect the dots were

1:08:34

able to the Patriots. But yeah, it was a

1:08:36

pretty definitive report by him. He said

1:08:38

that the comments he made during the halftime

1:08:40

ceremony played a role, and I guess his sort

1:08:42

of refusal to dismiss the rumors

1:08:44

about the Patriots in house when he was asked about

1:08:46

them also played a role.

1:08:48

You know, He's always been a favorite. The crafts

1:08:50

have always liked him.

1:08:52

I think they were driving force behind his being

1:08:54

elected into the Patriots Hall of Fame.

1:08:56

I think the fans have always liked him.

1:08:58

He's always represented something in particular,

1:09:01

whether it's the Patriot way or something else to fans,

1:09:03

you know, whether it's toughness, tradition,

1:09:06

whatever you want to call it, He's kind of

1:09:08

represented that. And if you were going

1:09:10

to make a move from you know, you

1:09:12

know, the greatest of all time, if

1:09:14

we put Bill Belichick in that category, and

1:09:17

I certainly do, then vrabel

1:09:19

would probably be the next logical step

1:09:21

to take.

1:09:21

And if he is, and again, I'm

1:09:23

sure.

1:09:24

This is all being discussed now, you

1:09:26

know, like I said earlier, maybe literally as we

1:09:28

speak. What does this do about

1:09:30

you know, Gerrod Mao the era a parent

1:09:32

who obviously turned down other opportunities

1:09:35

to stick around and make money for it, of course,

1:09:37

but you know, he's been the de facto

1:09:39

you know, house.

1:09:40

Guy for at least the last year or more.

1:09:42

And I'm just kind of curious, is this something

1:09:45

that would still make it plausible

1:09:48

that he could be a part of or do we just you know,

1:09:50

cut bait and move on.

1:09:51

In all in all forms and facets.

1:09:54

Yeah, you know, I think certainly if

1:09:56

Vrabel came here, I think Tod Mao would be

1:09:59

a great choice for defensive coordinator. But

1:10:01

what I would say is, I think the Patriots have somebody

1:10:03

else in house who could be ready

1:10:06

to become a DC right away,

1:10:08

and that's to Marcus Covington. He got

1:10:11

the defensive coordinator interviews last off

1:10:13

season. I think the Patriots

1:10:15

defensive line was arguably their best personnel

1:10:17

group all season long, both just in terms

1:10:20

of performance and the way they improved. When you look at someone

1:10:22

like Christian Barmore, I think he did

1:10:24

an excellent job and I think he's very much

1:10:26

a defensive coordinator in waiting. So if

1:10:29

Brabel coming here did me in the end for girod

1:10:31

Mayo, I wouldn't necessarily

1:10:33

worry about that if I'm a Patriots fan, because I think DeMarcus

1:10:35

Covington is ready for that time of job.

1:10:38

All right, So what do you think Dakota Randall

1:10:40

will get encovers the Patriots bete for Nsson

1:10:42

dot Com here with us in the playbook.

1:10:44

What do you what do you think

1:10:46

the next steps are?

1:10:47

I mean, what do you think is your opinion of

1:10:49

what might be transpiring right now, and

1:10:51

is Bill Belichick still, in your estimation,

1:10:54

a legitimate option to return.

1:10:57

You know, I do think I think he is

1:11:00

an option to return, and I think it's

1:11:02

trending toward him not returning. I

1:11:05

still think it's on the table, you know, maybe

1:11:08

thirty seventy right, thirty

1:11:10

in favor of him staying, seventy

1:11:12

in favor of going. But

1:11:14

as far as the timeline, you know, heading

1:11:16

into this week, you know, we were all talking about

1:11:18

this last week. We were sort of saying,

1:11:21

well, if a trade is what the crafts want

1:11:23

to do, this thing could draw out for a while. But

1:11:25

I think the reporting in recent days

1:11:28

has really sort of squashed a lot

1:11:30

of that talk about a trade. So now

1:11:32

I think it feels like we've reached a place

1:11:34

where it's either you know, he's here or

1:11:37

there's not going to be some sort of long drawn out trade

1:11:39

process. So like for me, I'm expecting

1:11:41

something by the end of the week. I'd be stunned if

1:11:43

we reached the weekend and we don't hear anything.

1:11:46

Wow. Okay.

1:11:47

My original premise was when I opened the show with

1:11:49

it today to go too, is that I really thought

1:11:51

that some of the would happened relatively quickly because I've

1:11:53

never known the Crafts to

1:11:55

be dogglers, if I can borrow that

1:11:57

phrase. And then if something didn't have in the first forty

1:12:00

eight hours, that he was more likely to stay.

1:12:02

But because of Rabel's you

1:12:04

know, firing at Tennessee, that that

1:12:07

might have just on at least one

1:12:09

fly in the ointment, so they could do the due diligence

1:12:12

on it.

1:12:13

Yeah, yeah, no, I agree.

1:12:16

I think you have to. And you know, maybe

1:12:18

this is the NFL, right, I mean, there's a chance that

1:12:21

the craft all along knew that this could

1:12:23

be the outcome for Vrabel.

1:12:25

You can't discount that.

1:12:26

But if it did just sort of, you

1:12:28

know, fall into their plates, I

1:12:31

think it has to factor into their

1:12:33

decision making because you look at Mike

1:12:35

Grabel and you think you can look

1:12:37

at something, You can look at him as someone who could

1:12:40

be the leader of the franchise for the long

1:12:42

term at a very high level. So he

1:12:44

has to factor into their decision making.

1:12:46

At this point.

1:12:47

In my opinion, it sounds almost

1:12:49

ridiculous even to talk about personnel issues

1:12:51

now, because clearly we don't know the direction

1:12:53

of this team and this organization

1:12:56

without knowing who the head coach is and who's going to

1:12:58

be in a running the show as far as a GNA or

1:13:00

personnel you know, uh, you know, department

1:13:02

or anything like that. That having been said,

1:13:05

I wanted to ask you and get your thoughts on guys

1:13:07

who are under contract, who we know potentially

1:13:10

will be here in New England for next year that you

1:13:12

feel are are still

1:13:14

building blocks or do they need to just

1:13:17

kind of you know, scrap you know, some of these and

1:13:19

and uh and move on. I realize

1:13:21

if you're in a contract it's not as easy to do

1:13:23

that, but I think where there's a will, there's a

1:13:25

way just about any way you go about, you know, trying

1:13:27

to retool and rebuild. What are your thoughts

1:13:29

at least the way that this season

1:13:32

ended, and and clearly this last

1:13:34

Sunday was not as ugly as

1:13:36

I've seen in a long, long,

1:13:39

long time, maybe since maybe

1:13:41

since I began back in the early nineties, you

1:13:44

know, covering this team, uh and even the late

1:13:46

eighties. I just are

1:13:48

there guys on this team that you look at and say,

1:13:51

wow, I could see I could see them as a part

1:13:53

of the future and being successful

1:13:56

again in New England.

1:13:57

Yeah, absolutely, you know, I

1:14:00

do fall into the camp. And this is partly why

1:14:02

you know, I wouldn't just scoff at the notion of Belichick

1:14:05

returning. And I don't think it would be necessarily

1:14:07

a bad decision for them because I don't

1:14:09

think they're that far away.

1:14:11

I think they have a lot.

1:14:12

Of things to accomplish this offseason,

1:14:15

but I think lesser franchises have accomplished

1:14:17

all those things than one off season. Look at the Houston

1:14:19

Texans their turnaround.

1:14:20

If you get the quarterback, a.

1:14:22

Lot of things can fall from that. And so for the pieces

1:14:24

the Patriots already have in place, you know, I think

1:14:26

Christian Barmore, right, that's you know, an interior

1:14:29

pass rusher at that level is something every

1:14:31

team's looking for. Having one in place

1:14:33

is a huge benefit for them. I think Keon White

1:14:36

showed a lot of promise to you know, maybe

1:14:38

just be the next next Ditrich. Wise, You'll

1:14:40

have to see what Christian Resalz looks like, right, I mean, he

1:14:42

looked like a franchise cornerback those first

1:14:44

few weeks, but that was just three weeks, right,

1:14:46

Where's he going to be next season? But I

1:14:49

think you put him in that group for sure,

1:14:52

and then you know, we'll have to see how Marque Mapu

1:14:54

does. If he's someone who can be the next free safety.

1:14:56

I think he's got a lot to prove. I wouldn't put him in that group

1:14:59

yet, but I think he has the ability to be.

1:15:01

And then on the offense offensive side of the ball, not

1:15:03

a lot right now. I think we all believe

1:15:05

in the Mario Douglas And on

1:15:07

the offensive line, I think Mike can win it

1:15:09

if they bring him back, that that he is

1:15:12

a piece of the future. That's

1:15:14

really it. On the offensive side of the ball, right there's

1:15:16

not a lot of guys under contract, not a

1:15:18

lot of pillars, you would say,

1:15:20

But I do think, especially on the defensive side of the

1:15:22

ball, there's a lot to work with there for the future.

1:15:25

Yeah, defense, I think it's pretty

1:15:27

clear that you know, this team, even you know,

1:15:29

when they lost Christian Gonzales and mad

1:15:31

Judah on earlier this year, that you could see

1:15:33

this team still had a lot of fight and a lot of ability

1:15:36

natural ability, which is certainly encouraging. And

1:15:38

you know, the Jets game notwithstanding, because

1:15:40

they allowed you know, Breese Hall to you know, run

1:15:43

all over him.

1:15:44

But at the same time. Uh,

1:15:46

there's enough there.

1:15:47

And and if you can add Gonzales back, if

1:15:49

you add you know, Judah or someone like him

1:15:51

back as well, you've got an opportunity

1:15:54

now to again have one of those top five,

1:15:56

you know, top six or seven defenses that

1:15:59

will all allow you to be considered

1:16:01

competitive, certainly on that side of the ball,

1:16:03

but maybe if you can bring your offense

1:16:05

up to snuff. Now you're talking about a team that could

1:16:08

go from you know, four or five wins to you

1:16:10

know, ten or eleven wins potentially in a single

1:16:12

year. And we have seen, especially

1:16:16

in the last few years, teams

1:16:18

go from worst to first, also

1:16:20

from first to worst, but worst to first

1:16:23

and get into the playoffs and and become significant

1:16:26

factors and not only their division races,

1:16:28

but into the postseason. And you know,

1:16:30

the Patris already have a pretty good defense in place.

1:16:33

I'm of the opinion that.

1:16:34

With the right moves, the

1:16:36

right moves again, let me stress that word right,

1:16:38

the right moves in place, this team can

1:16:40

be competitive starting next year.

1:16:43

Yeah, I agree, And

1:16:45

again I think it all really starts

1:16:47

on the offensive line. I mean at quarterback. Of course, that's

1:16:49

that's obvious, but I think you

1:16:51

know, it really starts on the offensive line,

1:16:53

because you know, having your line set

1:16:56

up really enables you to win

1:16:58

in so many more different ways. I mean, look at the when

1:17:00

the Titans were good a few years back with Mike drabil

1:17:02

and they were able to get far in the playoffs really

1:17:04

with a head the emphasis

1:17:07

on the running game, and so you know

1:17:09

what, if you have your line attack, you can run, you

1:17:11

can have a pocket passer, you can have a mobile quarterback.

1:17:14

Enables you to do all those things. So I think it starts

1:17:16

there. And so I think they have the

1:17:18

bones of a good offensive

1:17:20

line for the future if Dave Re signed

1:17:22

Mike and Winnu. Because you have Mike and Winu. You

1:17:24

know, I thought Cities Now showed a lot of promise at

1:17:26

right guard. Yeah, I think centered

1:17:28

You know, David Andrews is excellent. How long is he

1:17:31

does he plan on playing? What's his future New England.

1:17:34

We'll have to see. But you know, they spent a high

1:17:36

draft pick on this potential replacement last year in

1:17:38

Jake Andrews, and I thought Cole

1:17:40

Strain showed a lot of promise and

1:17:42

a lot of improvement before he got hurt as well. He

1:17:44

used a draft pick Antonio Maffi on that. So, I

1:17:46

think the interior in the right side

1:17:48

of the line are set up for success.

1:17:51

It's just left tack, right, they got addressed that one

1:17:53

way or the other. If they get that figured out,

1:17:56

I think that's a huge step forward.

1:17:57

Yeah, a huge stepinitely in the right direction.

1:18:00

And uh, again, we don't know

1:18:02

what kind of philosophy is going to be, and we

1:18:04

do we know what kind of personnel may be a preference

1:18:06

of whoever's the head coach or or whoever

1:18:08

is the uh you know in charge

1:18:11

of uh the personnel

1:18:13

you know on the roster just.

1:18:14

Yet coach, right, Yeah, I

1:18:16

mean that the huge part of it.

1:18:18

Yeah, it has to be a part of it, because, let's face

1:18:20

it, I mean, Adrian Clem may not be back next year.

1:18:22

We know the you know, had the illness that he came through

1:18:24

during the course of.

1:18:24

The year, and and uh, we really don't

1:18:26

know much about that right now. It's one of those, you

1:18:28

know, hidden things that clearly will play itself

1:18:31

out once you know, the coaching

1:18:33

staff becomes finalized.

1:18:34

For next year as well.

1:18:35

And it seems to me to be logical

1:18:37

that you might want to consider making that move and

1:18:39

in moving on, especially if there's a health issue

1:18:41

involved here, and if that's the case, there

1:18:43

are going to be different guys that different coaches want

1:18:45

to work with or have a different opinion on in

1:18:47

terms of the personnel. I mean, let's face it,

1:18:50

in this, in this sport, especially

1:18:52

at this high level, playing a sport that this

1:18:54

this physical and this violent at times

1:18:57

to each his own, and some co

1:19:00

choose, some philosophers think

1:19:02

that speed is more than anything right

1:19:05

now, and I can understand why they would think that, But

1:19:07

there's also a certain significant factor to winning

1:19:09

battles of strength in the in the trenches,

1:19:11

and I think that's where the Patriots had huge

1:19:14

problems offensively because they were literally

1:19:16

overpowered by defensive

1:19:19

lines too much of the season. You didn't see a whole lot

1:19:21

of forward movement, even from a guy who I

1:19:23

think showed that he still had a little life left in his legs,

1:19:26

and Ezekiel Elliott running the football and Ramandre

1:19:28

Stevenson before he got hurt. There

1:19:30

wasn't the same forward push even

1:19:32

in run blocking that

1:19:35

we had seen in years past, in recent

1:19:37

past, and so it tells me that the personnel

1:19:40

might be young.

1:19:41

But whatever it is, they're.

1:19:42

Not doing the same things that we've been seeing

1:19:44

in the past, and yeah, you might have to think

1:19:47

about making a change in that regard.

1:19:49

Yeah, And so much of it comes down to, you

1:19:51

know, who's the offensive coordinator. You know, right now

1:19:53

it's Bill O'Brien, and you know, I believe he's under

1:19:55

contract, so yeah, you have to assume it's

1:19:57

him. But if Mike Bravel comes, does he bring urcis?

1:20:01

You know, what's what's the situation with Josh McDaniels.

1:20:03

There's talk that maybe they could pair him up with Bill

1:20:05

O'Brien. What does that all look like? And

1:20:08

then you know, when you have those people in place, who do

1:20:10

they want for an offensive line coach? And

1:20:12

you know, if an Arthur Smith comes, does he

1:20:14

look you know, and he installs an offensive

1:20:16

line coaches that guy look at the line and say

1:20:18

and think, well, I'm of the belief that Cole

1:20:20

Strange is the center because a lot of people thought that

1:20:22

before the draft, let's move him over there and

1:20:25

make Antonio Moffett left guard. So there's so many

1:20:27

things you know that could be changed based

1:20:29

on you know, who the assistants are next season.

1:20:31

Then it makes it really hard to sort of

1:20:33

speculate about what the team I look like next year,

1:20:35

because this is so much in flux right.

1:20:37

Now, all right, So let's get

1:20:39

back then before we wrap it up here, let's get back to speculating

1:20:44

best case what you know at this moment.

1:20:46

It's one twenty one Eastern time

1:20:48

on Wednesday, all right, and it's

1:20:51

it's January the tenth. We're

1:20:53

doing this live here, Dakota, and I'm

1:20:55

just kind of curious what you think right

1:20:57

now, what will transpire over

1:20:59

the next twenty four to forty eight hours. You

1:21:01

said earlier in our conversation that you

1:21:03

know, you'd be surprised if something didn't happen by

1:21:06

the end of the week. What

1:21:08

is that something that you think will probably happen.

1:21:11

Yeah, And really, more than anything, I'm

1:21:13

going off what's been

1:21:15

reported by the people who've covered this team

1:21:18

the longest, and I think at the highest

1:21:20

level, and they've all been pointing in one direction

1:21:23

that Belichick won't be

1:21:25

here, that the team will move on from him,

1:21:28

And so I, personally, I would

1:21:30

be surprised if that's not the outcome here

1:21:33

over the next forty eight hours or you know,

1:21:35

into the early part of the weekend.

1:21:37

I think that I'll take

1:21:39

the opposite tact on that. Based on the things

1:21:41

that I know and that I've heard, I would

1:21:43

tell you that I will be mildly surprised if

1:21:45

he's not. I still believe strongly

1:21:48

that if it didn't happen in

1:21:50

the first couple of days, that

1:21:53

it was more likely that he would come back,

1:21:55

especially after what he told us all on

1:21:57

Monday, that you know, he would be open to whatever

1:22:00

change. And again I'm paraphrasing, obviously,

1:22:03

and we don't know whether or not that'll work out. If he

1:22:05

doesn't come back as head coach. My

1:22:07

guess is is that you know there is a mutual meeting

1:22:10

of the minds that this is not going

1:22:12

to work going forward, and they're still

1:22:14

in that discovery process, so

1:22:16

that discovery process has not completed itself.

1:22:19

Then when you add Mike Rabel's firing

1:22:21

in Tennessee into the mix, it kind

1:22:23

of muddies the whole puddle a

1:22:25

little bit further. And I think that's going to require

1:22:27

a little more time to work out. And

1:22:30

you know, hey, there'd be a lot of wood you

1:22:32

being played. Would you take this, would you move here,

1:22:35

would you do that? Would you go here?

1:22:36

That kind of thing, and so they're going to ask that of a lot of people.

1:22:39

They're gonna play woods you with a lot of people

1:22:41

like Rabel, Josh McDaniels,

1:22:44

you know, Gid Mayo, Bill

1:22:46

Belichick. I mean, there's gonna be a lot of people that are

1:22:48

gonna get that question thrown at them, and

1:22:51

then you've got to sort through it all and

1:22:53

decide this is the next best

1:22:56

step to take for the franchise,

1:22:58

because again, they've never had to take this

1:23:00

step before. This is unprecedented,

1:23:03

and they want to get it right. And

1:23:05

I think that the Patriots, and I think the

1:23:07

Crafts in particular, have a history of getting

1:23:09

things right, and if

1:23:11

the last few years have been wrong, this

1:23:14

is the time for them to take

1:23:16

a new step.

1:23:16

And move a different direction.

1:23:18

If that includes, you know, ripping

1:23:20

off the bandid as the saying goes, and replacing

1:23:22

Bill, fine, But if they think that it can

1:23:24

happen, because Bill may very well

1:23:27

be the best coaching candidate that's out there,

1:23:31

then you figure out a way to make it to make it work. And

1:23:33

this process is not going to be done

1:23:36

in twenty four to forty eight hours.

1:23:38

Yeah, and you and I certainly don't

1:23:40

think you're at all off for suggesting

1:23:43

that, let alone the idea that Belichick to

1:23:45

be back. I've always thought the possibility of him coming

1:23:47

back, you know, was greater than what a lot

1:23:49

of people assume, just because of who he is and

1:23:52

because of you know, what the team showed at at times

1:23:55

this year, you know, one of the one of the

1:23:57

main reasons why I believe. And whether it's you know,

1:23:59

forty eight hours or you know, within

1:24:01

the next three or four or five days, you know,

1:24:03

either way, I think the current

1:24:05

NFL guidelines and rules, I

1:24:08

think the earliest they could announce the new head

1:24:11

coach is something like January twenty third, based

1:24:13

on the hiring guy, the interview

1:24:15

guidelines, the Rooney Rule and everything like that. But

1:24:17

you know, these teams, they want to have their

1:24:20

staff in place and sort of a vision ready to go

1:24:22

when you start coming up to the Senior Bowl, the Shrine

1:24:24

Bowl for paying for the draft. So while

1:24:26

I do agree it would not surprise me

1:24:28

if it lingered on maybe a little bit longer, but

1:24:31

I do think it would behoove them to sort of,

1:24:33

you know, figure it out sooner rather than later, because

1:24:35

you got to get going on the offseason.

1:24:36

Plan yeah, you certainly

1:24:39

do. Times we're all late in here.

1:24:41

We gonna figure out.

1:24:42

Hey, you get season ticket Chino to sell and sponsorships

1:24:45

to sell, and people want to know which direction of the team is

1:24:47

going to go, and who's going to be the coach? And do I

1:24:49

want to plump my harder and cash down, you

1:24:51

know, to pay for this and sponsor that, and YadA YadA,

1:24:54

and so there's there's a business to run here, and yeah,

1:24:56

you do have to move forward. Hey, Dakota, thank you,

1:24:58

thank you for the time today. Great talk to you,

1:25:00

and I hope that we had a chance to do this again soon.

1:25:03

Yeah, thank you very much, thanks for having me.

1:25:05

You got it our pleasure.

1:25:07

He's at dak dak randall

1:25:09

r A N D A L L on x at

1:25:12

x dot com. If you want to follow his stuff, obviously

1:25:14

find a lot of this stuff that he writes about the New England Patriots

1:25:17

on nesson dot com as well an EESN

1:25:20

dot com. Follow him on the

1:25:22

Patriots beat. Therefore, uh

1:25:24

is Eldrid still there? Marine Eldred,

1:25:28

You've been kind enough to hang on and I'm curious to

1:25:30

what you think about everything that we've been talking about this far.

1:25:34

I listened to you earlier, and I

1:25:36

agree with Evans. There certain spot

1:25:39

step for the quarterback, and Doser,

1:25:42

don't run it back. I mean, whatever,

1:25:46

whatever evidence do you need, just

1:25:48

like this in on NFL Network, even Jason mccordy,

1:25:52

this two thy and fifteen, dat

1:25:54

time drafting bad. They

1:25:56

ain't never signed their first round draft pick and

1:25:59

what five s to Q now seven? Yeah,

1:26:01

you know they don't get a sucking contract. And

1:26:03

the people that you did homegrown, I don't care if they can

1:26:06

be sucking third or fourth round. And they work

1:26:08

like a like a menu like

1:26:10

Mason and all them you got rid of, you

1:26:12

trade them, you don't, you don't keep them. And so that's

1:26:14

why I went into a boat that we're in now. And

1:26:17

when he had that little comment about I'll do

1:26:19

what if it takes, but y'all didn't listening

1:26:21

to the end, Devin, we'll corabor

1:26:24

rates, and you know, we decide what's No, he's

1:26:26

deciding what's that. He's still in control

1:26:29

and no move on. He's seventy two. It's

1:26:32

oh, you know, it was a good run.

1:26:34

Just like Tom Landry, just like Chuck

1:26:36

No, just like Don Shuler.

1:26:39

Once you got older and you fashion.

1:26:40

That's it, you know, But why can't

1:26:43

why can't Bill be different than

1:26:45

Chuck Nolan, Tom Landry?

1:26:48

What's the why should it be different?

1:26:50

Why should why can't you be different?

1:26:53

Because like I said, you said coaching, right, sir,

1:26:56

he's the greatest coach for CAB right.

1:26:58

That's exus and old. But it

1:27:01

only it starts more with excess and o's this all

1:27:03

start with personnel contracts and

1:27:05

everything else. He flunked on all of them.

1:27:08

And that's why we ain't got no talent. And

1:27:10

then what skied, Like I told you before, what

1:27:13

scares me the most if he's still

1:27:15

here. We got draft pick number

1:27:17

three, prayed him draft

1:27:19

down to twenty three, and he gets them Scully

1:27:21

buzzs that he always been getting and it doesn't

1:27:23

change.

1:27:26

Yeah, you get a bunch of draft picks, but you

1:27:28

get people that you know that

1:27:31

that ain't gonna you know whatever. And

1:27:33

then when you do get him, the only

1:27:35

one he's the only one he started, uh

1:27:37

right off was Gonzales because he's

1:27:39

defense and he's a starting corner.

1:27:42

So you had to start. You couldn't stay there. Don't care if he had Jason

1:27:44

mccordy or if you had gil

1:27:47

Moore. You had to start that guy because he was the first round.

1:27:49

He had to start him and that was the only reason. But he

1:27:52

was good, you know. But other than

1:27:54

that name, some bousk he's trying to start. There

1:27:57

was first round and you know, and let

1:27:59

him play the hang up nobody.

1:28:01

He don't do that. This team is

1:28:03

lacking in talent, death and

1:28:06

everything else. And if the thing

1:28:08

what they said last week about him

1:28:11

and Bill O'Brien, you know, not let him

1:28:13

have his staff people. Do you know it's a budget

1:28:15

thing and you're gonna use the same coaches.

1:28:18

Well, you ain't developed an office line. You copy

1:28:20

found wilde receivers and you ain't doing too

1:28:22

much to put the tie in. And if Bill

1:28:24

O'Brien had to hold everything because he

1:28:27

didn't trust him guy, and you want that person

1:28:29

still in charge those yeah, sent

1:28:31

him on his way get it too instead

1:28:35

let him go.

1:28:36

Sohow I know that you were gonna kind of come up with

1:28:38

that opinion. That's but that's okay.

1:28:40

That's why I wanted you to share it because

1:28:42

quite frankly, I think your sentiment

1:28:45

is what a lot of fans feel right now, and uh,

1:28:48

they're kind of tired of it, and they want to move on, and I

1:28:50

totally get that. I just what we're all trying

1:28:52

to do here is figure out what we feel like

1:28:54

would be the best way for this franchise

1:28:56

to move forward from this point in time. And

1:28:59

you know, as I've said several times already today,

1:29:01

look, this is unprecedented. We've

1:29:03

never gone through this before. We we

1:29:05

we we only know what others have gone

1:29:07

through because we've never done that before

1:29:10

here in New England. The collective we of course,

1:29:12

so uh in that regard what is

1:29:14

the best way.

1:29:15

To move forward?

1:29:16

And really, uh, who's set

1:29:18

the right example you know, potentially for

1:29:20

the Patriots to follow? Or are they

1:29:22

going to trailblaze themselves on this move? And I

1:29:25

think, you know, hey, if Bill is

1:29:27

willing to sublet

1:29:30

the personnel issues that,

1:29:33

well you.

1:29:33

Don't know that.

1:29:34

You don't You don't know that nobody

1:29:37

now, no, yeah, well I know you laugh.

1:29:39

About it, but but we don't know that

1:29:42

any proof. What he said on all

1:29:44

the draft picks is my decision.

1:29:47

It's my decision we picked, it's

1:29:50

it's his decision.

1:29:52

So it had that room but him

1:29:54

that's right, it has been the final decision has

1:29:57

belonged to him. However, however,

1:30:00

for him to keep his job, and how much does he want

1:30:02

to keep his job here or how much does he.

1:30:04

Really want to move on elsewhere?

1:30:05

For him to keep his job, he's going to have to

1:30:08

sublet some of that somewhere.

1:30:10

And I think we all are in agreement where that's

1:30:12

concerned. That's gonna happen. There's gonna

1:30:14

be some change. If

1:30:17

the bill is still here, there's going

1:30:20

to be some change.

1:30:22

I'm gonna hit you whatever's hit you with. Okay,

1:30:24

what if he said, he go ahead and do this, and

1:30:27

then this is the GM gives him

1:30:29

a quarterback, a wire receiving a tackle. Okay,

1:30:33

you're gonna play the quarterback because he needs one.

1:30:35

But everybody else he's just sit in the bitch and put him where

1:30:38

they want to put him. And then, okay,

1:30:40

you're given these guys, but they don't fit my system

1:30:42

and I'm not gonna put him put

1:30:45

him in the roster. So he

1:30:47

still got control.

1:30:49

Entirely fair, control entirely

1:30:51

fair. Yeah, yeah,

1:30:53

you're right, and that's entirely fair.

1:30:55

But but again, we're dealing in hypotheticals,

1:30:58

and it's really difficult to pre hypothetically,

1:31:01

what's gonna happen. I understand based

1:31:03

on past history, it'd be difficult

1:31:05

for him to make a different type

1:31:07

of move. Uh you know that

1:31:10

that you know, he clearly would have to at least

1:31:12

entertain that possibility. But

1:31:14

again, until we get to that point in time, we don't know. And

1:31:16

look, Bill's only going to coach for another couple

1:31:18

of years.

1:31:19

Maybe you know, he wants

1:31:21

a record, and I think the Patriots

1:31:24

want him to have the record, and they

1:31:26

want him to have the record in New England

1:31:28

as head coach if it can be worked out.

1:31:30

But these are the parameters, and if

1:31:33

Bill doesn't want to follow the parameters, then

1:31:35

Bill will be gone because it's

1:31:37

not his team.

1:31:38

It's the Crafts team, right.

1:31:40

Gee I I but

1:31:44

I'm going I'm looking on this. Like

1:31:46

you said, it took over. He

1:31:48

run it his way and you know it, as I

1:31:50

know, it's hard for you to change if you're doing anything,

1:31:53

you're a way for twenty some years. I good

1:31:56

And like said, if they

1:31:58

say they give him that hot GM from San Francisco,

1:32:01

it's never they never sit with him.

1:32:04

He's not gonna listen to him. But you know, here,

1:32:06

take the player Okay, I got him, and

1:32:08

I'm coaching the way I feel, and there'd be

1:32:10

that and now Scott Pi only no,

1:32:13

anybody outside Belichick, Tree, no,

1:32:16

let him go because they won't r in the same way them

1:32:18

teen thirteen run the ball? What about

1:32:21

to make mistakes and deepen And like Evan

1:32:23

said, football in the Boss is nineteen

1:32:25

seventy. If he hain't seen the TI leaves,

1:32:28

he need to read a little bit more, you

1:32:30

know, because they change.

1:32:32

Eldrid, I'm going to assume here, as a little

1:32:34

kid, when you'd scuff up your your your knee

1:32:37

riding a bicycle, you had you had bloody

1:32:39

scabs all.

1:32:40

The time, right, Yes,

1:32:42

I did a lot of jumping.

1:32:48

Listen, I totally understand why you think they should just

1:32:50

rip it off and move on. I get that, and

1:32:53

there's a lot of me that feels that way.

1:32:55

I mostly do this to play devil's advocate

1:32:57

so I can bring up the other side of the story, because quite frankly,

1:33:00

if the other side happens, they're going to be like, well,

1:33:02

how come you guys didn't talk about that that's a possibility.

1:33:05

Well, yeah, So my job is to bring up all

1:33:07

the possibilities and let's see. I've given

1:33:09

you what I think will happen. It doesn't

1:33:11

mean it's going to happen. But this is based

1:33:13

on my observations, my knowledge.

1:33:16

Some of it is a little bit more than others, some of

1:33:18

it's a little less than others. But that's

1:33:20

okay. We're just we're exchanging.

1:33:23

We're exchanging viewpoints here. There's no right or

1:33:25

wrong. There's no need to be first or

1:33:27

or you know, I just you know, want to be accurate

1:33:30

whatever. We're exchanging information.

1:33:31

So uh I, you know. I tend

1:33:34

to think that the.

1:33:34

Longer this goes on, the better a chance

1:33:37

there is that he's going to still be coach,

1:33:39

but it won't be the same way as

1:33:41

it was this year in previous

1:33:44

years. There will be changes going forward, and

1:33:46

I think the Crafts will insist upon that. Again

1:33:48

that's just my opinion.

1:33:51

They might assist, But like every day, I brew

1:33:53

it in. You could talk that talk, but

1:33:56

when it comes to walk there walk can you walk it?

1:33:58

And you won't walk it?

1:34:00

Right, he won't walk it.

1:34:01

You may very well be right, Eldred, Hey, my

1:34:03

friend, enjoy your off season.

1:34:05

I know we'll we'll converse during the

1:34:08

course of the off season when we get the chance. But be

1:34:10

safe when you're out on the roadways.

1:34:11

All right, are you two? So I always

1:34:13

good to tell you, mister Legends, have a good one.

1:34:16

Thank you. The one and only Eldred in North Carolina.

1:34:18

Hey, I need to grab a sixty second

1:34:21

because somebody's knocking at my door.

1:34:23

So I'm gonna get that done.

1:34:25

And then we come right back with Russell Baxter

1:34:27

and Week one of the twenty twenty four NFL Playoff

1:34:29

Round that's coming up here in the playbook.

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