0:01

Crucial American military aid is on the

0:03

way to Ukraine, thanks in part to

0:06

the work of the Speaker of the

0:08

House and billions and assistants are also

0:10

heading for Taiwan as well as Israel.

0:12

Just as pro Palestinian protest intensify are

0:14

many elite college campuses next. This

0:20

is Washington Week with the

0:22

landing. Corporate funding

0:25

provided by. Consumer

0:28

Cellular. Certified.

0:31

Financial planner professionals are proud to support

0:33

Washington Week with the Atlantic. Cfp.

0:36

Professionals are committed to acting in their

0:38

clients' best interest. More information that led

0:40

to Make a plan.org. Additional

0:45

funding is provided by Cool

0:48

Patricia You and through the

0:50

You In Foundation committed to

0:52

bridging cultural differences in our

0:55

communities Sandra and Carl Delay

0:57

Magnussen, Rose Herschel, and and

1:00

Dish Reeves, Robert, Ensues and

1:02

Rosenbaum The Corporation for Public

1:04

Broadcasting, and by contributions to

1:07

your Pbs station from Viewers

1:09

Like You. Thank you.

1:13

Once again from Washington, Editor in

1:15

Chief of the Atlantic and Moderator

1:17

Jeffrey Goldberg. Good evening and welcome to

1:19

Washington Week. It's been a busy

1:21

week, not only in Washington, but

1:23

in New York where the Forty Fifth

1:26

President of the United States is

1:28

currently on trial for a legit

1:30

shenanigans related to pay offs to an

1:32

adult film actress which is a

1:34

completely normal thing to say. Mike

1:36

Johnson, fresh off his legislative victory over

1:38

Marjorie to have a green and

1:40

the isolation is weighing of his

1:42

party. Had it's a Columbia University

1:44

in New York to show his support for

1:47

Jewish students and also to remind republicans just

1:49

how much they dislike the Ivy League. We

1:51

have a lot to talk about in here

1:53

with me to discuss the week are: Peter

1:55

Baker. Who. Is that Chief White House

1:58

correspondent at the New York Times? Laura? Lopez

2:00

is the White House correspondent for Pbs

2:02

Newshour. David Drucker is a senior

2:05

writer with The Dispatch. And Mar

2:07

Eliason is a national political

2:09

correspondent for Npr. Welcome All

2:11

mara! I wanna start with

2:13

you the big funding bill

2:15

for Ukraine and Taiwan. And

2:18

Israel and the whole tic toc issue which

2:20

we can get into now law. Very.

2:23

Interesting not, but people were necessarily expecting

2:26

us to the the big question is

2:28

kinda center to hold it. Did which

2:30

is kind of amazing for this and I

2:32

think with this showed is that the laws.

2:34

Of Political Gravity and Political Math have

2:37

not been completely overturned. If you have

2:39

a two seat majority, And an

2:41

unruly conference and you want to pass

2:43

something. Like Ukraine A to keep the government

2:45

opener stop it from going. Into default, you

2:47

have to work across the aisle and

2:49

depend on democratic votes, and that is

2:52

considered a cardinal sin among the manga

2:54

wing of the Republicans in the house.

2:56

But that's what happened this. Week. Right?

2:58

But the mag a wing did not rise

3:01

up and throw out know as early as

3:03

nice as I say this, you are Not.

3:05

Yes and they for right now it looks

3:07

like they don't have the votes to do

3:09

that. but you know I wanna say one

3:11

other thing that was amazing about this is

3:14

that Speaker Johnson in he said that one

3:16

of the reasons he was gonna do this

3:18

is because he believed the intelligence briefings that

3:20

he thought. which is astounding because one of

3:22

the tenants of the modern Trump Biggio piece

3:24

is that you don't believe anything the intelligence

3:26

community says or the F B I or

3:28

any law enforcement because Trump things. Others agent

3:30

rise and especially how Cia Directors of

3:33

Point yeah I adapted their it more.

3:35

And that was key. I was sixteen

3:37

with the House Republican today who told

3:39

me that that briefing with Cia Director

3:41

Bill Burns said Speaker Johnson had was

3:43

really crucial for him to change his

3:45

mind and decide that he was going

3:47

to risk his potential speakership. Put this

3:49

bill on the floor. Ah, even though

3:51

all of them on the wing didn't

3:53

want s that as well as his

3:55

conversations with Nato leaders, this House republican

3:57

told me were T for speak gone

3:59

fan and then these National Security House

4:01

Republicans who really said to him that

4:03

he needed to be on the right

4:05

side of history and made that appealed

4:07

to him and that this was not

4:09

just you know that was also a

4:11

moral decision that he drove to make

4:13

answer them. He ultimately shifted. Right for

4:16

David. What this means is either

4:18

build Burns as the greatest briefer

4:20

is a war. That that

4:22

the Reagan wing of the Republican

4:24

party is not yet dead or

4:26

possibly both up. But what Is

4:28

this? A return to the Reagan

4:31

style? Muscular Internationalist.

4:35

Anti Russian a anti authoritarian wing of

4:37

the party. The Cold War Two. That

4:39

would certainly be the more familiar thing

4:41

to see. I think if we need

4:43

to look at it like this as

4:46

I traveled the country or the past

4:48

year covering the Republican Primary. What I

4:50

discovered is that there is still a

4:52

healthy republican faction of the Republican party,

4:54

but it is for now at least

4:56

as long as Trump is in control

4:59

the party. The minority faction. right?

5:01

But it's there. And so I

5:03

think. What we saw develop in

5:06

the House of Representatives in the

5:08

Us. Senate and recent days is

5:10

this faction of the party that

5:12

still believes and Reagan era muscular

5:14

foreign policy assert itself and and

5:16

so. Did not. Only were

5:18

they able to do that. they

5:20

also were able to team up

5:22

with a Democratic party that forty

5:24

years ago would never have been

5:26

with Republicans on that issue. right?

5:28

The idea that that that Joe

5:30

Biden as President. Would be

5:33

the one pushing for this if we

5:35

were to go back in time is

5:37

almost astounding. and so there was a

5:39

good confluence of issues and events, an

5:41

agreement that we don't necessarily see on

5:43

other issues. I will say to the

5:45

lowest point they eat you talk to

5:47

to house Republicans who had to go

5:49

through losing a speaker when most of

5:51

them didn't want that to happen in

5:53

every regard. Three years and there's a

5:55

D. Amount of frustration at

5:58

the idea that they were being. Spun

6:00

around by a minority and I think

6:02

it's particularly after the mullahs and Iran

6:05

decided to attack Israel directly. They look

6:07

at the national security situation or globally

6:09

and said we've had enough, We've had

6:11

enough, have been twisted by this minority

6:14

of our conference and we've had enough.

6:16

Ah, standing down and not doing with

6:18

the states are supposed to do it

6:20

at all came together to produce this

6:23

grand compromise that happened in the middle

6:25

of another was horribly dysfunctional congress. I

6:27

I wanna I wanna come back to

6:29

Speaker. John Cena what this means for

6:31

his career and staying power to me.

6:33

but I want to stay on this

6:35

subject of of the Republican Party writ

6:37

large. Peter: Do you think that. Is.

6:40

Is more of a blip. And. That

6:43

the the mega wing, the isolation a

6:45

style wing of the party's gonna assert

6:47

itself well to be careful over interpreting

6:49

one one moment. Of course, Peasant we

6:51

do. We're on the show he overtook

6:53

for Get Home until next week. We'll

6:55

never going to react or forget what

6:57

it is worse marry Their majority of

7:00

the Republicans are more much more publicans

7:02

in the house voted against Ukraine aid

7:04

and voted for it right? right? And

7:06

so yes, it was a strong bipartisan

7:08

majority. Three hundred some boats in a

7:10

divorce burn? I do. Ah, very impressive.

7:12

In that sense. but of the Republicans, most

7:15

republicans more public vote against the phone for

7:17

so we can't write them off obviously and

7:19

that tells you something about the evolution of

7:21

the party or was a bid for the

7:24

so acid any. The democrats right are there

7:26

are words. Cold Warriors tomorrow and your time.

7:28

The other than our. Say something else.

7:30

Donald Trump kind of stood down. Yeah,

7:32

he was a real anti Ukraine guy.

7:35

Got him teach? The first time for

7:37

pressuring the Lansky. Don't know what an embezzler

7:39

hate our job is. Anti Ukraine has

7:41

been very sympathetic and. Kind of

7:43

showed a lot of affection for

7:45

Vladimir Putins, but he didn't insist

7:47

that Republicans vote against their lives

7:49

on the and. I.

7:52

There's a lot of a license one is I don't know. He

7:54

wanted to have a big. mess in europe on

7:56

his hands as he became president regular

7:58

thing is to to do point, too,

8:00

about the Iran-Israel fight

8:03

over the previous weekend is that the Republicans

8:05

realized that their case against Biden rests in

8:07

part on portraying him as weak, right? He

8:09

is a weak leader. And it's awfully hard

8:11

to make that case if they're the ones

8:13

who are holding up aid to Israel and

8:15

Ukraine. And so they had to get that

8:17

off the plate in order to make that

8:19

case, which is how it worked. Laura, what

8:21

does this mean for the speaker and his

8:23

staying power? What have you learned about Speaker

8:26

Johnson in the last couple of weeks? Well,

8:28

he's safe momentarily. I mean, I think

8:30

next week we are going to see

8:32

a potential effort by the

8:35

MAGA wing of the party to potentially raise a

8:37

motion to vacate. Now, the

8:39

Democrats I've spoken to say that... Motion

8:41

to vacate means a vote to... Motion to vacate means a vote

8:44

to oust him. Right. And now,

8:46

of course, it doesn't look like they have the support

8:48

to actually oust him the way they did for

8:50

Kevin McCarthy, because this time around Democrats have told

8:52

me that a lot of them are willing to

8:55

put up the votes to protect Speaker

8:57

Mike Johnson. They feel as though he

8:59

operated in good faith on Ukraine with

9:01

this vote. They aren't going to necessarily

9:03

do that for free, though. They want

9:06

to see some more compromises out of

9:08

him and some more ability to have

9:10

power over what actually comes to the

9:12

floor and the types of bills that

9:15

comes to the floor. And it remains to be seen

9:17

if he's going to actually engage with him. What

9:20

do they want? What is an example of something they want? We're

9:22

sharing on the rules committee. Now, this is getting a little weedy,

9:24

but it has control over what ultimately gets to

9:26

the floor. And so they want to

9:28

have more ability and power to say,

9:31

we want votes on more bills that

9:33

we think would get big bipartisan votes

9:35

that wouldn't necessarily reach the floor otherwise.

9:37

Right. You know, Jeff, George Shultz used to say

9:40

that trust is the coin of the realm when

9:42

you're talking about how you do things in Washington.

9:44

I think what the Speaker did was

9:46

prove to Democrats he was trustworthy.

9:49

And in an initial motion to

9:51

vacate attempt, I think Democrats

9:53

will do what they said They

9:56

are going to do, which is to protect him

9:58

from that. I Think if this keeps. The

10:00

Up Over and over. That's when the

10:02

Democrats start to say, okay, what else

10:04

is enough for us By the same

10:06

token, however, House republicans broadly do not

10:08

have an appetite for this. Any of

10:10

Speaker Johnson were actually vacated. They're not

10:12

gonna get Speaker Jordan or Speaker Fillon

10:14

a blank. You're going to end up

10:16

with a a unity speaker of some

10:18

sort or a centrist republican because nobody

10:20

wants to go through this and reward

10:22

the malcontents. And I think I think

10:24

the people that are thinking through the

10:26

motion to vacate the want to bring

10:28

it. Marjorie Taylor Green. Thomas Massie and

10:31

some others are seriousness and so I'm

10:33

curious to see if they actually after

10:35

you know it's so interesting. One of

10:37

them are under rated. Aspects of Johnson's

10:40

performance is that he is generally lights.

10:42

I was at us and and Kevin

10:44

Mccarthy i yell was not so light.

10:47

He was the house Democrats. They say

10:49

we're very special Things about Johnson Of

10:51

that they didn't say about Mccarthy, even

10:53

of Johnson is far more to the

10:56

right yeah, hour and a black further

10:58

away from democrats biologically than Mccarthy was

11:00

right, but they believe that he dealt

11:03

with a mistreats yeah, straight and and

11:05

and at our front way. and Rc

11:07

didn't Rights or Peter of stay With

11:10

You for a Minute or as the

11:12

actual subject of Importance or Ukraine and

11:14

it's newfound ability. or whether it has

11:16

a newfound ability to actually win and

11:19

reverse the tide of Russia hasn't punched

11:21

through the lines and a significant way,

11:23

but. Everybody in Washington, analysts

11:26

and Europe believe of the Ukrainians on

11:28

their back foot. Does this change the

11:30

picture in a dramatic and ongoing way.

11:32

For Ukraine's chance it changes, the picture

11:34

is not quite clear yet. Obviously they

11:36

lost love momentum because it took so

11:38

long to get this money. They've been

11:40

going for months without are enough artillery

11:42

rounds francis decision to have us or

11:44

a proper battle in effect. For the

11:46

most important thing that came along with

11:48

the sixty billion dollars is also the

11:50

decision by the by demonstration again the

11:53

long range attack And these are missiles.

11:55

That can fire up to one hundred and ninety miles away. was

11:57

in greens have one or for a long time. Biden was reluctant

11:59

to give it. David to them and

12:01

within hours the Ukrainians put to good

12:03

use. Now the questions can those be

12:05

used to take out some of these

12:08

radar ah an ancestor other facilities of

12:10

the Russians have been using to launch

12:12

missiles at. Ukrainian target so

12:14

they can take out the Russian ability

12:16

to lack of the infrastructure civilian targets

12:18

in Ukraine they might be able to

12:20

to make a difference with the expectation

12:23

is these next few months or about

12:25

holding a line and then deceived in

12:27

the fall. The. Delivery Weapons has reached

12:29

a point where they can actually make up a

12:31

meet meaningful move forward by. Are we going to

12:33

be back? In. This. Crisis

12:36

again. When. This current tranche

12:38

of money current Roger Weapons is run through. This

12:40

should run through this presidency. The real question here

12:42

is not money at this point. The real question

12:45

is the November Election. Okay, who wins in the

12:47

last if is Trump than they know it's over

12:49

because they're not going to get any more minute

12:51

or so and I get the support. Has already

12:54

told the world is willing to give Russia right

12:56

all territories taken had even negotiated a piece omer.

12:58

that point when you've given everything away at the

13:00

front and and he grins. Know that near Penns

13:03

know that right? Let me switch subjects. Were a

13:05

speaker Johnson, so it's the same subject. But

13:07

it's another thing that's bigger. Johnson didn't last

13:09

couple weeks as visit Columbia University. Hostile Territory

13:11

First Speaker Johnson. If you want to watch

13:13

this for one second, you'll see what I

13:16

mean. Anti

13:18

Israeli cabinets are popping up the

13:20

university's all across this country. The

13:27

man is has to stop. The

13:29

madness has to stop. I'm here today

13:31

joining my colleagues. And. Calling on

13:34

president should be to resign. If.

13:36

She could not immediately

13:38

bring order to this

13:40

chaos. David: What Is the speaker

13:42

trying to accomplish a Columbia. Well.

13:45

Number. One, This is an issue that

13:47

Republicans are up in arms about. That We

13:49

just republican voters are watching what's going on

13:52

on college campuses across the country, and it's

13:54

no longer decidedly campuses. It's all over the

13:56

country and they're upset about it. They want

13:58

to see Republicans acts. The only it's

14:01

it's a win Because as we

14:03

were talking about this earlier, When

14:06

you have all the right enemies. nice day such

14:08

as the political when so he's getting booed and

14:10

booed by all the right people. but I'd say

14:12

the suits their a lot of democratic congressman. That.

14:15

Are super upset about this that have

14:17

traveled to the Ivy Leagues Ah to

14:19

show solidarity of solidarity for the Jewish

14:21

students that that feel threatened that are

14:24

threatened or because of these encampments and

14:26

so would Johnson is doing number one.

14:28

Holsters is standing within the Republican conference

14:30

they want to see actually but it

14:33

doesn't hurt him with up the broad

14:35

number of democrats and does not hurt

14:37

him and where his relationship with a

14:39

house minority leader Jeffries and and so

14:42

it's just good politics but also to

14:44

the extent. That Americans and voters are looking at

14:46

this and they don't like what they see? I know

14:48

some do, but to the extent that many don't. Ah

14:51

and they want to see the federal government

14:53

active. It shows that he's leading and I

14:55

think one of the biggest developments to come

14:57

out of the past couple of weeks with

15:00

Johnson is that he led. He showed a

15:02

minority and as conference that he wasn't gonna

15:04

be twisted around and now they see him

15:06

active in that tends to reflect well on

15:08

Mar was this was this visit to Colombia

15:11

where I mean it's sort of extraordinary I

15:13

Costa Rica zero vs this this figure of

15:15

the how are all going through a universe

15:17

at home for the resignation of further I

15:19

sort of like absolutely stay. Gray as a

15:21

lot way. Entering. The were all and these it must

15:24

feel seen. By bureau you mean like oh, he's he's

15:26

at all the right enemies as what? down. But I

15:28

would. I. Mean by the role is this is gonna

15:30

be be role and ads right? Yeah, when you're

15:32

when you're gonna see in the Fall are this

15:34

is the Republicans equivalent. Of the George Floyd Pro

15:36

to I mean. Protests were in a

15:38

they want to show the campuses are in chaos

15:40

because part of making Biden look weak as to

15:43

say he can't do anything. about the chaos in

15:45

the world the chaos on campus and you're

15:47

gonna see you're gonna see these pictures and

15:49

i just want to have that of that

15:51

republicans pull these stunts all the time and

15:53

people look at them and is a this

15:55

is a son that this is actually a

15:57

situation where many people across the political spectrum

16:00

people that will never vote for republicans believe this

16:02

right a problem and don't necessarily see this as

16:04

a start is not what people people like dot

16:06

yeah sometimes i want to hear i want to

16:08

know what are on this yeah

16:11

yeah i mean i get that yet that's

16:13

true that there are some across the political

16:16

spectrum that would be happy with what speaker

16:18

johnson did i am kind of questioning what

16:20

voters actually he thinks he might be winning

16:22

over does this rally the bay does

16:24

this win over young voters now that

16:27

went over you know at and polls have shown

16:29

that a majority of americans actually think that israel

16:31

has gone too far uh... in

16:33

their actions against gaza and

16:35

so that's why you've seen president biden start

16:38

to shift his rhetoric over the course of

16:40

the last few months that is that is

16:42

true but i i want i want to

16:44

mention this poll very interesting poll from the

16:46

institute of politics uh... at harvard uh... shows

16:49

that the israel-palestine issue this is a a

16:51

poll of eighteen to twenty nine-year-old voters despite

16:54

what we're seeing on some campuses it's

16:56

not right not ranking high in their

16:58

list of interest if you look at

17:01

the list uh... these these voters are

17:03

more interested in more preoccupied with gun

17:05

violence and protecting democracy and reproductive rights

17:07

abortion issue education immigration jobs and always

17:10

come out ahead so so that that

17:12

the question is is it

17:14

are we part of me

17:16

wonders if we're paying so much attention to columbia

17:18

because half the journalists in america and it's easy

17:20

access easy

17:23

access to the media in midtown but but

17:25

yet there was another poll this week and

17:27

it was a poll house democrats and

17:30

they voted five to one for the

17:32

israel eight and the senate only three democrats i

17:34

believe voted against the overall package

17:36

and that means that yes do their

17:38

visible pictures it's very combustible it's a

17:40

remarkably uh... ball a moment on campuses

17:43

but among the elected democrats they are

17:45

five to one in favor of unconditioned

17:47

aid for israel now that package also

17:49

include nine billion dollars of humanitarian aid

17:51

for gaza so democrats might

17:53

be concerned with how far israel's going to say look

17:55

i voted for that because i want the money to

17:57

get the humanitarian aid but in any case It's

18:00

interesting that the division among Democrats on

18:02

Israel was not nearly as

18:04

deep as one might have thought it would be. Right.

18:07

And just on young voters, I was just in Michigan and

18:09

I spoke to a group of young voters across the spectrum.

18:12

And so watch NewsHour next week because we'll have that

18:14

on our air. But, you know, yes,

18:17

there was one voter who Biden has clearly

18:19

lost. She voted for him in 2020. She

18:22

goes to Michigan State University. She says

18:24

she's not going to vote for him

18:26

again because of Gaza. Who's she going to vote for? She

18:29

may not vote or she may just protest vote. She's not

18:31

going to vote for Donald Trump. And

18:34

then there are the other young

18:36

voters who say that, yeah, they

18:38

are concerned about Gaza and Israel

18:41

and Hamas, but that their main

18:43

issues are, to that poll that

18:45

you showed, Jess, are abortion. It's

18:47

democracy. It's economy. It's a range

18:49

of other issues, which I

18:51

think might be getting lost a bit in

18:54

D.C. because of what we're seeing play out

18:56

across the college campus. David, you also were

18:58

traversing Michigan recently. You guys

19:00

were. We waved. Yeah, you

19:02

waved. And I'm wondering what you found

19:04

in terms of the relative importance of

19:06

this issue compared to other issues. Yeah,

19:08

it was really interesting. In conversations I

19:10

had with Democrats and Republicans, insiders working

19:13

to elect their respective nominees,

19:16

the first issues they would mention to me

19:18

were bread and butter issues. For

19:20

Republicans, it was inflation and

19:23

immigration and the problems we're having at the

19:25

southern border with the gaming of the

19:27

asylum process. Democrats

19:29

were talking about abortion rights, reproductive

19:31

rights, and

19:33

issues like democracy and the

19:36

concerns about Trump. And

19:38

then I would say, oh, and what about the

19:41

president's policies vis-a-vis Israel and the

19:43

war in Gaza? Oh, yes. And

19:46

then they would get into that and talk

19:48

about that. But they didn't

19:50

necessarily see those issues

19:52

as deciding. Now, I will say that Republicans

19:54

look at the problem that the president's having

19:56

with Arab American voters

19:59

in Michigan. And they

20:01

believe that a serious

20:04

depletion of votes from his coalition

20:06

could cost Biden the

20:08

state ultimately. But they don't think

20:10

that the president's at any risk

20:13

of losing the Jewish vote, no

20:15

matter how much his rhetoric were

20:17

to shift on Israel. And

20:19

what I heard from Arab Americans was, well,

20:21

his rhetoric may have shifted, but his policy

20:23

certainly has not. And

20:26

they noticed that. And so

20:28

ultimately, I think the president has to

20:30

make a decision about exactly what kind

20:33

of campaign he wants to run. Quickly for the

20:35

both of you, is Michigan the toughest swing state

20:37

right now for Biden? I

20:40

believe it is. Hands down. Yeah. I

20:43

mean, other than the Sun Belt state. Wait, do we have a total consensus around the

20:45

table? Of the blue law. Of the blue law.

20:47

Yeah. Of the blue law. Yeah.

20:50

But Arizona and Georgia. Although, ironically, for problems in the Sun Belt. Yeah,

20:52

yeah. But the blue law states his

20:54

Southern theater. He needs to win Michigan to win. But

20:56

it was interesting that I was in Michigan as well.

20:58

What's going on in Michigan? Well, who knows? Something that

21:00

somebody invited me to? Yeah, the Delhi or a Michigan.

21:02

Yeah, no, it's like I missed something. Of

21:05

the 100,000 Democrats who voted uncommitted in

21:07

that primary as a protest or what

21:09

have you against Biden, Democrats

21:11

there worry about a half of them won't come back to him. Now,

21:13

they're not going to go to Trump. You're right. I'm

21:15

not going to go to Trump. Well, that's the same thing

21:18

as a vote for Trump as far as the Biden campaign

21:20

is concerned. Of course. But having said that, there was a

21:22

poll this week that said of the swing states, Trump was

21:24

leading in all of them except for Michigan. The only place

21:26

Biden was ahead by two points. So it's early to say.

21:28

And the other thing is in terms of the

21:30

war, it depends on what

21:33

happens with Rafa. Right now, there's actually not a lot of

21:35

war going on compared to where it was. This

21:37

would have somehow cycled down if they got a deal.

21:39

That's a big if. By September

21:41

when people were voting, it's possible people are looking

21:43

at other issues as more acute at the moment.

21:46

There's a lot of energy in Israel now. There

21:48

was new video of an

21:50

Israeli hostage who people thought might have not

21:52

been a health fee, but

21:54

is very lost in arm. But

21:56

that's caused another kind of round

21:58

of we got to. get a deal,

22:00

which obviously militates against. And

22:03

the Biden administration made clear this week that

22:05

they think it's Hamas, not Israel right now,

22:07

that is blocking that deal. That's an important

22:09

statement for them to make. But still, people

22:11

want to see this over. And the question

22:13

is, can they make it happen? Let us

22:15

leave Michigan, if you can bear it,

22:18

and come back to New York just

22:21

to talk about the trial, the

22:23

first week of testimony in the

22:25

first trial ever, criminal trial of

22:27

an American ex-president. Mara,

22:29

what did we learn so far? Well,

22:32

we learned that the prosecution has a

22:35

very elaborate story to tell. And

22:38

they're telling it about how all these people helped Trump.

22:40

There's a lot of spit on that wall. Yeah, yeah.

22:42

When you say elaborate, you mean hard to sell? Well, I

22:44

think it's complicated. But the question, the

22:46

job for the prosecution is not just

22:49

to explain what catch and kill is,

22:51

which is where you pay somebody to not go to the

22:53

press and tell their story, but also how

22:55

those things were illegal or supported an

22:57

illegal scheme. And that's what they have

23:00

to do. And the judge

23:02

doesn't seem to be very happy with the

23:04

Trump lawyers or with Trump himself. He keeps on

23:06

violating the gag order. But overall, this case

23:08

has been considered the weakest one.

23:12

And I still think it is. We have

23:14

a long way to go. Well, one thing that's striking

23:16

about the case to me is just how

23:18

much, when you talk to prosecutors and other

23:20

legal experts, that Trump is being treated differently

23:22

than any other defendant that would be in

23:24

a similar case, which is that the

23:27

amount of gag orders he's facing,

23:29

the amount of reprimands from the

23:31

judge for attacking, prosecutors for

23:34

attacking family members of the judge,

23:36

all of that, a similar

23:38

defendant would probably already be in

23:40

jail. In jail. Right.

23:43

And Trumpism at all. Peter, who ended on

23:46

this question, do you think that

23:48

this might actually be the only

23:50

Trump trial we see

23:52

before November? Obviously, there's Supreme

23:55

Court issues that we're watching.

23:57

Is this is this it? As

24:00

we end the week, that's what it looks like. This is the

24:02

one trial we're going to have completed by

24:04

Election Day. And the Supreme Court's deliberations

24:07

this week were very interesting, very important.

24:09

We can talk about that. But the

24:11

core takeaway

24:13

from that is it's likely to continue to

24:15

drag out before, long before the election. We

24:17

won't see a trial on that one tonight. Quickly. All

24:20

right. Trump's tactic is delay. And on that one,

24:22

he's succeeding. His strategy is also to undermine faith

24:24

in the justice system. And I think he's probably

24:26

making some headway there. But look,

24:28

Democrats have a deus ex machina

24:30

problem around Trump. They think that Robert Mueller

24:33

was going to save them. Now they think Jack

24:35

Smith will save them. Prosecutors and

24:37

judges are not going to determine Trump's

24:40

faith voters will. And voters know Trump. And

24:42

voters are deciding based on what they know

24:44

already. No, it's a very good point. It's

24:46

been a great conversation. Thank

24:48

you very much. Unfortunately, we need to leave

24:51

it there for now. I want to thank

24:53

our panelists for joining us and for sharing

24:55

their reporting. And you can read Elena Platt's

24:57

collabrous profile of speaker Mike Johnson at the

24:59

Atlantic dot com. I'm Jeffrey

25:01

Goldberg. Good night from Washington. Corporate

25:05

funding for Washington Week with the

25:07

Atlantic is provided by Consumer Cellular.

25:10

This is Sam. How may I help you? This

25:13

is a pocket dial. Well, somebody's pocket. But

25:16

I let you know that with Consumer Cellular,

25:18

you get nationwide coverage with no contract. That's

25:20

kind of our thing. Have a nice

25:22

day. Certified

25:26

Financial Planner professionals are proud to

25:28

support Washington Week with the Atlantic.

25:30

CFP professionals are committed to acting in

25:33

their clients' best interest. More information at

25:35

Let's Make a Plan dot org. Additional

25:40

funding is provided by Koo and

25:43

Patricia Ewins with the Ewan

25:45

Foundation, committed to bridging cultural

25:47

differences in our communities. Sandra

25:50

and Carl DeLay Magnuson. Rose

25:53

Herschel and Andy Shreve's. Robert

25:56

and Susan Rosenbaum. All

26:00

my contributions to your PBS

26:03

station from viewers like you.