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hello there and welcome to another week

0:54

of people fixing the world from the bbc

0:56

world service i myra a new

0:58

be and on this program we look at

1:00

fresh ideas that can help us solve

1:03

global issues today

1:06

will be talking about meets well

1:08

sort of will be finding out

1:10

about seek meat and how

1:12

it could help us eat less

1:14

me

1:17

globally the amount of me that we're consuming

1:20

is increasing and that's

1:22

not just bad for health it's also really

1:25

bad for the environment according

1:27

to the united nations my stock

1:29

are responsible for nearly fifteen percent

1:31

of man made greenhouse gases and

1:34

all the land needed for the grazing is

1:36

the swing natural habitats like

1:38

in the anything now

1:40

, way of reducing meat consumption is

1:42

for more of us to become vegetarian or

1:45

vegan but that's not for everyone

1:47

is it well another

1:49

solution that might be more appealing

1:52

is to get people to eat sake meat

1:54

and it's been used in some cultures now

1:56

like in india or china for centuries

1:59

fake meat industry is also going in

2:02

other parts of the world and to

2:04

tell us about some cool ways of replacing

2:06

meet i'm now joined by craig

2:08

land and craig it's great to see

2:10

hey myra is good to be here and

2:12

i knew we had lunch together slain million

2:14

each neat yes yep i do

2:16

i'm funnily enough though i'm actually

2:19

grew up as a vegetarian and

2:21

be right a do eat meat now however

2:23

recently i've been thinking about impacts

2:25

of easy me on the climate quite a lot and

2:28

i am trying to cut down a bit

2:29

mia m increase meat is such

2:32

a big pot many people's meals though

2:34

it's almost unrealistic to expect

2:36

people to become vegetarian overnight

2:38

yeah yeah exactly the solutions

2:40

i'm going to talk about to day or more to

2:42

do with encouraging everyone's eat less

2:44

meat which i think is a much more realistic

2:46

talk is definitely and in order for

2:48

that to happen the thing is the alternative need

2:50

to be exciting don't they and they need

2:53

to taste good as well and that's

2:55

where fake meat comes in if

2:57

you're used to me being a regular part is diet

2:59

then sometimes you're probably gonna miss

3:01

having something me see at the since for your meal

3:04

my

3:04

i mean i knew this because i use

3:06

be one of these people are about five

3:08

years ago my husband went vegetarian and

3:10

when he did we started consuming less meat

3:13

as a household and we'll for started

3:15

eating some of these fake meat stuff i'm

3:17

really intrigued by some of the

3:18

this and that you've been looking at creek

3:21

yeah so the three solutions will if not

3:23

today are all about making me so

3:25

products that wound just appeal to vegetarians

3:28

insights i guess some vegetarians probably

3:30

won't when he thinks that reminded me it's

3:32

hope and so the idea is

3:34

these would also appeal to appeal wider group of sex

3:36

is how reasons how reasons people

3:38

like me the i do eat meat but

3:40

just not one of the time yeah i'm i'm definitely

3:43

one of them soviet that's right so

3:45

we often think about me oh time to sit in terms

3:47

of nutrition zone p e i things

3:49

like i'll be getting enough protein or the right

3:51

sorts of thoughts and but taste

3:53

texture and smell are also crucial

3:56

to whether we enjoy all seems like a not

3:58

something that competing the things like veggie

4:00

burgers still trying to get

4:03

right actually

4:05

there are people whose job is to do exactly

4:07

that develop the taste of food products

4:09

that we eat and they're called flavorists

4:12

saver

4:12

are you saying that people who are keen

4:14

to just eat food obese because it's so

4:17

people fixing the world might need to look for another

4:19

presenter

4:20

i know it sounds like a dream job

4:22

does it does it's not quite

4:24

like thought to be honest i went to geneva

4:26

in switzerland to me a guy called mark rubin

4:29

he's a senior flavorists a company whose seventies

4:32

the actually most well known for making perfumes

4:34

but these days they just as much about taste

4:37

as the or about smell other working

4:39

with some the biggest food companies in the world

4:41

to develop flavors that was close to me as

4:43

possible i began by asking most

4:45

a question that was a little bit tricky the not realized

4:48

what is the flavorist

4:50

okay briefly that slavery

4:54

the study a ,

4:56

the taste of food is

4:58

able to kind of deconstruct the

5:01

heads and then to build to reconstruct

5:04

using a we have a as fast

5:06

as logan portfolio of raw materials ingredients

5:10

a make for would be a flavoring

5:12

mocked me for two of his life also

5:15

the windows with the snow capped peaks of the to

5:17

remain since inside with some

5:19

wonderful aroma have

5:21

, seen so in office that smells

5:24

so good he literally from the moment

5:26

of walks in and the whole thing

5:28

smells of roses yes yes

5:31

this earth where the factor is just

5:33

my next to was was a manufacturing

5:35

person humongous i should say

5:37

this as well flows going to say once

5:39

he'd come into the lab his actually

5:42

it snows a lot like very speaks yes

5:44

so this is all savory savory say

5:47

this as doing doing here say

5:51

there is tiny little tincture bottles

5:53

and each with different

5:55

colored liquid in them and related

5:57

those on this at work surface in front of me

5:59

and then just above dot the

6:02

, five or six much

6:04

bigger white jaws and

6:07

to what what what's in the smaller pursues and

6:09

what's in the bigger ones ones

6:11

big ones with that they could be city slaves and

6:15

scientists and in the smaller ones her their

6:17

trials of the tests

6:19

are looking this one

6:23

so this is a chicken nuggets flavor

6:26

people , chicken nugget yep the

6:28

cover little sniff by

6:33

very distinctive isn't it exists

6:35

, choices of those ingredients

6:38

extracts you can find but plant

6:40

extracts it could be plant extracts

6:42

could be m m retreats

6:44

open source of some of these of so

6:47

this is more time for things from these that

6:50

would be used in a veggie burger

6:52

potentially there is light is

6:54

almost like a combination of art and science

6:57

i , described as a landscape landscape

6:59

if you look at a picture you'll see the subject

7:02

to see the background see the full grown to see

7:04

the see as to try

7:07

and understand the flavor in the respect and

7:09

that's what i would do with for

7:11

example from space and then trump

7:14

built up back with typically

7:16

natural ingredients but the flavor

7:19

of peace is to

7:22

quote elusive i also suppressant

7:24

was be facing different support and

7:26

from to chicken and

7:29

we finally comes back is awesome to do is a

7:31

fat and the fat scared sliva so

7:34

, how the fatso fatso

7:36

the sats have that flavor that flavor is

7:39

very important but he

7:41

is an ongoing process so you not quite

7:43

there yet the pretty close it's

7:47

have to remember is also combination of to

7:50

visual clues

7:53

, well smell i suppose

7:55

smell yet all

7:57

of the ingredients we have as clinton models when

8:00

to learn how to use them and

8:02

were to use

8:04

the ingredients he uses a things like

8:06

seaweed east and wild mushrooms

8:08

but the can literally thousands of different combinations

8:11

the working out which ingredients my work is a bit

8:13

of a mammoth task luckily

8:15

month doesn't have to do it alone he's got

8:17

the help of a flavor database that uses artificial

8:20

intelligence which is the very first

8:23

of it's coins

8:24

the week

8:25

since one thousand slaves increases

8:27

over the years for example the

8:29

other day i used it to it

8:32

wanted i wanted roasted onion so

8:35

i can go into the database the

8:38

, i i can put in all the things

8:40

that i want i can say i wanted to be roasted

8:42

or wanted to be caramelized

8:45

away to be i

8:48

will search around one of the data that

8:50

we got and bring me back formula

8:53

that he believes meets all of those things that

8:55

on one and that gives me

8:58

the really good starting point so the man whose

9:00

job is to turn the slavers more creates

9:02

into food people cannot sleep is

9:04

michelin starred chef nicola i

9:06

hope that are trained to meet him i is tested in

9:09

paris here

9:11

we are so low that years ago so

9:15

or , the either so you are we

9:17

send our we made summer emissions

9:20

was different for this and then natural flavors

9:25

it's going to solo be like me ready

9:27

actually said , the ideas

9:31

ideas mean idea is idea make

9:33

sure that so why are you cooking

9:35

he you some not

9:37

you are north of flavors are

9:40

exam proceed to forgive

9:43

a very nice to pink on me yes

9:46

we user reviews be cool yes keep

9:48

the score of munich

9:51

the call keep of this is a new one

9:53

side or into that will asleep yes

9:57

sir you

9:59

the like that myself

10:06

you can pay a heavy

10:08

very much

10:14

he pleaded ketchup and mustard

10:16

lovely

10:18

how i like her the beef burgers wealth

10:20

not good

10:26

love really good that's

10:29

, really good at it

10:31

doesn't quite have the texture

10:34

of beef but in

10:36

terms of the flavor and the smell

10:39

if he did a blinds has with method know for

10:41

tell the difference how

10:44

do you think you go about changing consumer perceptions

10:47

around me or tennis's by

10:49

having the best is possible first

10:52

date the for me

10:55

it's critical that the first night

10:57

he's a decision maker by the

10:59

next fifteen years ah

11:02

, sink in europe more than

11:04

half of the people will be sexy terrence terrence

11:07

less meat because it said

11:09

definitely yeah good for the planet then

11:11

the it hats

11:14

craig you clearly enjoy this but

11:16

i'm how close is is to the we'll see

11:18

you know what myra it was pretty

11:20

goods and from a bit lighter

11:23

than a beef burger to and by

11:25

think the fact that the burger hide all these other things

11:27

on his so you know like the catcher in the

11:29

mustard it it probably meant that the overall

11:31

experience if he sings was a bit more similar

11:33

to be teabag at the for just had

11:35

a on his own

11:45

you're listening to people fucking the well

11:47

from the bbc world service

11:48

richard they were exploring

11:51

meatloaf foods that might just get more

11:53

people trying that the options that

11:55

look smell and taste

11:58

like nice now we heard

12:00

about a perfume company in switzerland

12:03

that's trying to make other seen smell

12:05

like meat but craig that's

12:07

not all i mean there's so many other people

12:09

we're trying to find ways to make seek meets

12:11

more appealing as tribute to

12:13

people like you and me people who aren't

12:15

vegetarians or vegans yeah exactly

12:18

myra and so we spoke about

12:20

three the printing on the program a couple of weeks

12:22

ago when we heard this against an episode

12:24

was cool what three d printing can do

12:27

it turns out the another of the things treaty

12:29

printing can do is make beat and

12:31

burgers are you serious young

12:33

deadly serious myra and so

12:35

this the startup could say that eat

12:38

and the based in israel which is interesting

12:40

because they're actually a lot of the guns in israel

12:42

and this got the third highest percentage of

12:44

eakins of any country in the world's and

12:47

i spoke to someone could reach movies months

12:50

the south the company and twenty eighteen after

12:52

she got over serious illness

12:54

years ago my was dealing with a very

12:56

severe medical episode that caused me to

12:58

adapt to very strict diet

13:01

i love lot of energy and passion

13:04

i lost a lot of weight at

13:06

that moment they realize that

13:08

why shouldn't i have some kind of a machine

13:11

that i would push your buttons it

13:13

would make me food according to what i want one

13:15

idea the pacific moment

13:17

without compromising wednesday

13:19

the he started looking for experts you could help

13:21

or create that kind of machine and

13:23

she came across to professes at the hebrew

13:25

university in jerusalem then

13:28

became her cofounders

13:29

they talk with me about solution

13:31

the using pretty printing

13:33

in order to recreate me

13:36

i was so and

13:38

yeah idea he said wow finally

13:40

i found the solution one second thing

13:42

just to be clear you know i've always

13:44

noon treaty printing

13:46

the be used to meet plastic stuff yeah

13:48

how exactly of the using it to me

13:50

meet yeah that's a good question

13:52

my wrath and they've developed machine

13:55

works in pretty much the same way and

13:57

so it lays up p n c p protein along

14:00

with a bit tito and then it turns

14:02

into different kinds of meat substitutes

14:04

with slightly different textures

14:07

the today we have been we have

14:09

long breaks the sausage like

14:11

for a replacement and then turkey

14:14

burger

14:16

the restaurant one of their machines which

14:19

fit like a giant silver microwave

14:21

and then go into the up and she's what you want

14:25

then you can also personalize it by specifying

14:27

if you'd like more or less fat or

14:29

maybe you honestly and you like enriched

14:31

with snacks for proceed

14:35

then the machines treaty prince you're

14:37

passing right there on the spot squats

14:39

how this chick pea protein mixture to create

14:41

the artificial meet texture and then the

14:43

robot chef cooks it's a human puts

14:45

in a bomb have some lettuce and five minutes

14:48

they sit there you go there's a lunch

14:49

i feel like these jumps a few years

14:52

into the future

14:53

okay you have to

14:55

be honest my run maybe it sounds and little

14:57

bit more psi phi than as she is in be odyssey

15:00

and at this stage can't actually paid

15:02

or it that much and so what's

15:04

really happening is you're choosing a burger

15:07

from a predetermined selection of different

15:09

mixes that or stored in cartridges

15:11

and the because the machine and , he gets

15:13

made sorta safe i mean if

15:15

you think about it is a bit like a coffee machine isn't

15:17

it in a press about and select

15:19

your the and then it comes out racial

15:22

did say that there is a little bit more to bit than

15:24

you know just a regular veggie burger that you could gal

15:27

the freezer

15:28

the texture is much more fluffy the

15:30

machine itself the robert chef is manufactured

15:32

products on the spot

15:34

though you don't need to add preservatives and

15:37

when the customers is coming to a restaurant

15:39

that can see the rather chef that

15:41

makes the product based on their knees

15:43

and eighteen smelly and it can even listen

15:45

to everything is in front of their eyes

15:48

and done automatically like

15:50

to think experience

15:51

i mean creating this sounds really cool i

15:54

can see myself in this restaurant ordering

15:56

so this week meet having to move

15:58

on deliveries and everything but

16:00

then i also have to ask isn't this

16:02

just a bit of a gimmick what's to stop me

16:04

for example from t

16:06

ingredients and making this

16:08

myself yeah i think that's a fair question

16:10

you know i'm but you touched on something that's

16:13

a big part of their strategy probably is just

16:15

the idea that people are gonna think it's quite exciting

16:17

to have their food cooked by this robot chef and

16:20

i think they're hunches the if you can offer people some

16:22

things that personalized exactly

16:24

what they once and that might make them a bit

16:27

more likely to choose a be substitute

16:29

craig i'm people using this machine

16:31

now

16:32

the all but is it quite

16:34

an early stage or think and mostly

16:36

working with companies that he must catering

16:38

so university cafeterias in the us

16:40

for example they're , working

16:42

with a burger chain israel i guess another

16:45

part of the appeal of fredy printings consistency

16:47

really isn't it it to the bug

16:49

comes out exactly the same wherever you are

16:52

essentially it's just like fossett but

16:54

just one step mom

17:04

in some cases there really

17:06

isn't a vegan or vegetarian culture

17:09

get africa for instance meat is still

17:12

a big part of people's diet

17:14

and i'll give you an example craig and so

17:16

in kenya when my husband would tell people

17:18

his vegetarian they would still

17:20

offer him that see in or meet

17:22

cute or one piece of

17:25

course one piece of meat is better than

17:27

a whole fleet and what's even

17:29

worse is some people would think that he's sick

17:31

or others who just think we're

17:33

really really ruined for injecting their food

17:37

will , on next solution might help with dot

17:39

dot a restaurant on the other side of the continent

17:42

in lagos nigeria and they say

17:44

they're nigeria's first ever weekend

17:46

restaurants and he's created a very

17:48

own seguin me substitute is

17:50

called v tongues and is specifically

17:52

targeted african cooking and

17:54

the african paler are reports

17:56

of carry more salome when down there

17:58

to me the cofounders boy called scheme

18:01

gym

18:02

hi welcome to veggie victories

18:05

yeah the money's good morning

18:07

what you like

18:09

the kinda you have the

18:11

trunk to the yeah that faced

18:14

like the regular so yeah we've eaten

18:16

my dear

18:16

that is for you to tell us in

18:18

also but syria is them and

18:21

barbecued meat know and

18:24

with and very distinctive season

18:26

mean it's mean mix of roasted

18:28

ground not with the ginger and see

18:30

me so me so like

18:32

meat but it's not mean i'm animals

18:35

a t i'll definitely give you the syria is

18:37

like our signature thing so that won't let

18:39

, just get a c

18:42

k bring awesome sawyer

18:43

so much in this is

18:45

nigeria people are no really

18:48

into didn't say gun thing saw

18:51

people receiving it

18:52

the way it's it's a new concepts

18:55

you know

18:56

of course nigerians africans will

18:58

tell you have i love my meet

19:00

you know you need to have something on

19:02

top of the rice you know so we

19:04

are in that sense we have to be

19:06

playing with people's minds of yup there's

19:08

something on top of the rise in on and

19:11

then repeated and us when we have always

19:13

them really them most funniest feedback

19:16

you know people are saying argue

19:18

with us noise meet your new console

19:20

me not me through his mouth

19:23

don't want a process of coming up with the some

19:25

sort of thousand seats him with

19:28

oh what's my insurance is

19:30

so i told will arms and my partner

19:32

but hey let's start a restaurant and we developed

19:34

a a menu and the in the

19:36

beginning there was no meat substitutes and always

19:39

sometimes there was some product from

19:41

abroad coming in but it didn't really work the

19:43

way we can put the burger patty into

19:45

his to that when we thought

19:48

about on developing a product six

19:50

seven years ago

19:52

well this is our products

19:55

endless

19:56

my home dry look as he tried

19:58

and meet that's was sincere

19:59

nigeria so what's used to make this

20:02

so it's a blend , from

20:04

grains with soy and

20:07

then of course we have our magic saws

20:09

you know am am what's you do

20:11

know is we always told people could like

20:13

meet you know you boil it didn't have any

20:15

season it and now let's get seuss

20:20

so this

20:22

is the sawyer oh

20:25

you haven't had breakfast to say that

20:28

saddam look like tell me you know

20:29

really looks and smells like

20:32

to yeah but some

20:34

many see how it takes

20:38

exactly like see

20:41

the know as we are

20:42

panel

20:44

some

20:46

our but this seems quite small

20:48

still happy to actually eat

20:50

indecently juri

20:53

the are young company

20:55

but we're filling it and and some major

20:57

retailers so we see the momentum

20:59

but it's still at the beginning scientists

21:02

comics are you don't change console

21:06

that was are reports that are more

21:08

its salami in lagos nigeria

21:10

now creek i'm just thinking about all the ideas

21:12

he's had today and the the i interesting

21:15

but how big is this think globally

21:17

i mean are people really buying

21:19

into this

21:19

freak meet story he i think

21:22

they are and actually anecdotally

21:24

more and more people are changing the way the

21:26

and becoming fixes harriet in countries like us

21:28

and uk especially young people

21:31

and and when you go to the shops you can actually see

21:33

that there are definitely morals hundred seats available

21:36

within say five or ten years ago another

21:38

thing worth bearing worth bearing is that the global meat

21:40

substitute markets full cost to be worth almost

21:43

six billion dollars by twenty twenty

21:45

seven she's absolutely massive

21:47

the teenagers and i'm also now

21:49

wondering about the cost how

21:51

expense

21:52

or cheap my these new meet

21:54

you wouldn't kill me to stop eating

21:56

regularly

21:57

the needs to be affordable yeah

21:59

that's it

21:59

the point i think that is one of the downsides of the

22:02

moment and a lot of your senses

22:04

the even get supermarket shelves in places like

22:06

europe and the us can be pretty

22:08

expensive and that's because it off tech

22:11

goes into them am however the

22:13

products we heard from in both nigeria

22:15

and israel of roughly the same price

22:17

as a meeting with them

22:18

mm and i guess the big idea here

22:20

is also that whoop for the more people

22:22

will start thinking about how much need

22:24

to eat and rare that meat comes

22:26

from yeah

22:27

slowly and you know maybe where possible they'll

22:29

go for a veggie burger instead of bespoke

22:32

a from time to time like fox

22:34

has and lunches are me myra great classics

22:37

thanks craig thanks virus

22:43

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