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0:03
This is Philosophy Bites with me, David
0:05
Edmonds. And me, Nigel Warburton. If
0:07
you enjoy Philosophy Bites, please support
0:09
us. We're unfunded and all donations
0:12
would be gratefully received. For more
0:14
details, go to www.philosophybites.com. JL
0:17
Austin exercised a huge influence over
0:19
Oxford philosophy in the post-war period.
0:22
He was a leading exponent of what's usually
0:24
known as ordinary language philosophy, an
0:26
approach to the subject that begins from examining
0:28
in detail the particular ways in which we
0:30
speak. His importance, however,
0:32
was not just as a philosopher. His
0:35
biographer, Mark Rowe, has shown that Austin
0:37
played a pivotal role in the Second
0:39
World War as a brilliant intelligence officer.
0:42
David Edmonds discusses Austin with Mark
0:44
Rowe in this episode of the
0:46
Biographical Strand of Philosophy Bites, Biobites.
0:50
Mark Rowe, welcome to Philosophy Bites. Thank you
0:53
very much for inviting me. We're
0:55
talking today about JL Austin, a 20th
0:57
century British philosopher. Just give me a
1:00
thumbnail sketch of his life. So
1:03
Austin was born in Lancaster in
1:05
1911 into a family of architects.
1:08
The family suffered quite badly in the
1:10
First World War. Both his mother's siblings
1:12
were killed and his father lost all
1:14
his friends. And when the
1:16
father came back from the war, there was
1:18
very little architectural work. The firm had basically
1:21
survived by building churches and
1:23
people didn't want to build churches anymore. So
1:25
he had to find a job. And he
1:27
eventually found a job as bursar to his
1:30
mother's old school, St. Leonard's in St. Andrews.
1:32
So that's where the family moved. Austin went
1:34
to the local prep school. He
1:36
was clearly brilliant at classics and languages.
1:39
And he won an open scholarship to
1:41
Shrewsbury, where he went in 1924. Did fantastically
1:45
well at Shrewsbury and got an open scholarship
1:47
to Badie Law College, Oxford in
1:50
1929, where again, his academic
1:52
progress was spectacular. He got a first in
1:54
mods after the first five terms and then
1:56
in greats after the next seven terms. Then
2:00
took legal Souls exam became it all
2:02
sounds of fellow of in two years
2:04
later took a job as a juicer
2:06
at Maudlin College Oxford because that was
2:08
a permanent appointment rather than he also
2:11
submit your sister seventy as. And
2:13
it's there he begins to find speak
2:16
philosophically l the classifies I have been
2:18
in on pragmatism. he then had of
2:20
set of a discussion group with a
2:22
boat in another of other leading philosophers
2:24
and was just beginning says over stamps
2:27
your obsession himself when the war started.
2:29
So nice you forty he's called up
2:31
and he joins British intelligence and he
2:33
joins man fuck would emi fourteen which
2:35
is basically looking at what the Germans
2:38
were doing of Africa. Did favorite into
2:40
their then moved to a. Small.
2:42
Unit which been set up to look
2:45
at the coast to establish intelligence prior
2:47
to the day. After D
2:49
Day he'd transfers to Eisenhower, becomes
2:51
his auto battle sheath and ends
2:53
the war in Germany basically and
2:55
target in German prisoners and doing
2:57
this of minister to Jesus comes
2:59
back in forty six takes up
3:01
is also tutoring job he said
3:03
some Saturday morning group which became
3:05
quite famous for young juices. And
3:08
then a nice you Fifty Five,
3:10
he's invited to Harvard Way, had
3:13
a give a successful series of
3:15
lectures, house do things with words
3:17
he has back to California and
3:19
nice And Fifty Eight goes off
3:21
on a tour of Scandinavia in
3:23
Nineteen Sixty Nine. And when he
3:25
comes back he realizes quite ill.
3:27
The children see how exhausted is,
3:29
and within about three or four
3:31
months of falling ill, he died
3:33
of lung cancer aged forty eight
3:35
at the very beginning of Nineteen
3:37
Sixty. Said he dies
3:39
as young man. you touched briefly
3:41
upon his war experience. But until
3:43
you delved into Austen Know be
3:46
waiting you quite how pivotal role
3:48
he played in the war. Well,
3:50
the fact in the significance for
3:52
know and but there's only five
3:55
paragraphs or britain about it. in
3:57
Jeffrey Worn Ox Memorial lecture, What
3:59
I. The do was put some
4:01
detail on this in turn, five paragraphs
4:03
into twelve chapters, hats and show exactly
4:05
what he did and why he got
4:08
a reputation as a brilliant intelligence officer
4:10
and what role he played. Indeed, I
4:12
am why it was so important. So.
4:15
He goes on to play an important
4:17
role in D Day, but it all
4:20
begins with him starting out as an
4:22
intelligence officer is it does. He joins
4:24
a screw could emi fourteen, and basically
4:27
he was working on North Africa and
4:29
what had happened in North Africa. At
4:31
the end of lesson forty, the Italians
4:34
been extremely badly defeated, and Austen suddenly
4:36
realize that the Germans were going to
4:38
send troops to reinforce their defeated allies.
4:41
He was the first one to see
4:43
that the Germans were transferring. The Africa
4:45
Coal and General Romo into North Africa
4:48
which is obscene. The beginning of a
4:50
two or three is very hard fought
4:52
campaign. he had any been working until
4:54
his for about five or six weeks.
4:57
He was a part time trainee. He
4:59
was helping people out with some of
5:01
you know hum drum routine tasks and
5:04
suddenly he saw something that everybody else
5:06
have missed a major strategic turn in
5:08
German policy and people were pretty impressed
5:11
by this I think so when they
5:13
then wanted someone to. Lead a
5:15
new units look at the coast of
5:17
France prior to and Allied land which
5:20
they knew must take place at some
5:22
point he was based in charge of
5:24
is it was cool the Advanced Intelligent
5:26
Section When he took it over, there
5:28
were only four or five people employed
5:30
there, so his job was to analyze
5:33
where the British and American troops should
5:35
land effectively. Yes, he was in charge
5:37
of intelligence. From the North of Holland,
5:39
the Den held right down to the
5:41
Spanish Frontier, looking at all possible places
5:44
where the landing. and take place are
5:46
looking into business for about thirty miles
5:48
inland so they wanted to know things
5:50
well for example the composition the beaches
5:52
would it support armored vehicles for example
5:54
you know where the mine fields where
5:56
the reverse where the tank trump's where
5:58
the ditches where the gun positions Austin's
6:00
unit was in charge of basically all
6:03
man-made defences, but he also had a
6:05
role yet to coordinate all the other
6:07
intelligence. So things like the
6:09
physical geography of beaches, which was actually done
6:11
by another unit, putting together everything
6:13
the Allies might need for successful landing.
6:16
And how do we judge his success? It
6:18
was extraordinarily successful. I mean, one thing to look
6:20
at is the Dieppe raid in August 1942, which
6:23
was a complete disaster. One
6:25
of the reasons why it was a complete disaster
6:27
and why something like 6,000 troops were taken prisoner
6:29
and 1,000 were killed is that nobody
6:31
had looked hard enough at the composition of the
6:33
beaches. They tried to land 50 tanks on the
6:36
beaches, and it's discovered that the tanks couldn't move
6:38
because the beaches were made of large, hard pebbles.
6:40
So when a tank tried to climb up the
6:42
beach, all it did was dig a hole for
6:44
itself in the beach and gradually sink and then
6:46
had to be abandoned. And
6:48
they realised, this was a disaster, if we're going
6:50
to do this properly, we're going to have to
6:53
know absolutely everything about the composition of beaches. For
6:55
example, just before Bd Day, there
6:57
was a worry that a scientist before the
6:59
war had gone for a swim off Aramange,
7:01
where they were thinking about landing, and he
7:03
said, the sea was turbid with what
7:05
I think was peach. And
7:08
they suddenly realised, if there's mud or peach just
7:10
under the surface of the beach, then we can
7:12
have the same problem as at Dieppe. So there's
7:14
an immense amount of work on things like aerial
7:16
photographs. They looked at historical accounts going
7:18
back to the time of William the Conqueror to find out
7:20
about the composition of his beaches. They realised,
7:23
for example, that the Romans had actually
7:25
mined peats on these beaches. And
7:27
eventually they sent swimmers across with sort of
7:29
augers to press into the sand to see
7:31
how far under the beach you had to
7:33
press before you found mud. And they
7:35
came back to England and reported that actually there's
7:38
about 18 inches of cover and that should be
7:40
enough to support armoured vehicles. And
7:43
as a result of his efforts, many fewer troops died
7:45
than were expected. That's certainly true.
7:47
The British and Americans were expecting up to
7:49
30% casualties. That's killed,
7:51
wounded, taken prisoner, missing. Possibly 30,000 or 40,000
7:54
troops could be casualties at the end of
7:56
the first day. You know, they thought it
7:58
might be as bad as that. the first
8:00
day of the Somme, for example. In
8:02
actual fact, the casualties overall turned out to
8:04
be about something like 3% or so, very
8:06
much less. And they actually had an investigation.
8:08
And the official report said, well, one of
8:10
the main reasons why this landing went so
8:12
well was because the intelligence was so good.
8:14
And they picked out two units. One is
8:16
a group called I.S.T.D., which is in charge
8:18
of the physical geography. And the other one
8:20
was Austin's group called the later intelligence section,
8:22
which is charged with manmade defences. And they
8:24
said it was so good because we knew
8:27
where every machine gun was, every anti-tank ditch,
8:29
every kind of defence. We knew what the
8:31
German troops were, we knew how experienced they
8:33
were, and we could take countermeasures. So
8:36
he actually received official praise for
8:38
being one of the people who made
8:40
D-Day such a success. That's
8:43
his war effort. Let's get back to
8:45
the philosophy. He's known as the father
8:47
of ordinary language philosophy. What is ordinary
8:49
language philosophy and how did Austin get
8:51
interested in it? Modern
8:53
language philosophy is the idea
8:56
that philosophical problems arise because
8:58
philosophers subtly misuse ordinary
9:00
expressions. And if you
9:02
show them that they are misusing ordinary expressions,
9:04
then they'll no longer want to ask those
9:07
questions. It became fashionable to say that philosophical
9:09
problems aren't solved, they're dissolved. They would be
9:11
shown to be pseudo questions. So it's like,
9:13
what time is it on the sun? Which
9:15
you think is a rather hard question. How
9:17
long after we answer that? And then he
9:19
writes, it's actually an unintelligible
9:21
question. So how
9:23
did he get interested in it? Well, I think
9:25
there are two reasons. First of all,
9:28
his whole training had been in languages. So
9:30
he was a brilliant classicist. He spoke
9:32
fluent French and excellent German, had a
9:34
working knowledge of Spanish and Russian and
9:37
so forth. So he was immediately attracted
9:39
by that. I also
9:41
think that he was quite
9:43
influenced by Wittgenstein. Wittgenstein
9:45
had returned to Cambridge in 1929. Austin
9:49
began to find his philosophical feat with his
9:51
discussion group, they said about all sorts in
9:53
1937, by which time
9:55
Wittgenstein's views were fairly familiar. The
9:57
manuscripts of the typescripts of the British.
10:00
book and the Brown book were circulating. Austen
10:02
didn't go off to war until the middle of 1940, so
10:05
I assume sometime in those four years
10:08
he read the book and the Brown
10:10
book. I think it's basically he was
10:12
interested by sort of linguistic questions anyway
10:15
and the influence of Wittgenstein suddenly came
10:17
together just before the war and
10:19
then there's a kind of five-year pause
10:22
while he thought about these things before
10:24
he went back to professional philosophy and
10:26
also to say that as a classicist
10:28
he was very interested in Aristotle
10:30
and Plato and clearly if you look at
10:33
the early Socratic dialogue Socrates is asking questions
10:35
like you know what is piety,
10:37
what is courage and so forth and
10:41
there were good grounds for those in that those
10:43
are actually linguistic questions what do we mean by
10:45
piety, what do we mean by courage and Austen
10:47
actually says sometime after the war the method was
10:49
actually discovered by Socrates. Wittgenstein of
10:51
course also talks about problems
10:53
dissolving in the analysis of
10:55
language so how does Austen's
10:58
ordinary language philosophy differ from a Wittgensteinian
11:00
approach? There are a number of differences
11:03
I suppose the most obvious one is
11:05
that Wittgenstein tends to talk about large-scale
11:08
problems rather general
11:10
words and his problems survive
11:12
in translation so he's interested in knowledge, he's interested
11:14
in mind, he's interested in emotion and those kind
11:17
of things and clearly you can ask those questions
11:19
in German or French whatever right
11:21
Austen tends to be interested in
11:23
almost near synonyms in English and
11:26
distinguish between them for example doing
11:28
something deliberately doing something intentionally or
11:30
doing something on purpose or between
11:33
the difference between a
11:35
tool and the utensil or an
11:37
instrument for example and he would
11:39
spend some of his Saturday morning
11:41
sessions discriminating between these things or
11:43
what's the difference between driving with
11:45
care and driving with attention. Now
11:48
Wittgenstein never goes in for that
11:50
kind of very minute distinctions
11:52
which basically you only find in English
11:54
And there are all sorts of other differences. Wittgenstein
11:57
for example, is very interested in error. The
12:00
sympathize you repeat that makes air as you think
12:02
that language itself lead you astray. He's interested in
12:04
how you got into this model in the first
12:06
place. The things you have to understand how he
12:09
got into it to get out of it is
12:11
almost like a sort of psychoanalyst trying to really
12:13
look at how he's from the right now they
12:15
get oven Austen is is not really interested of
12:18
my you made was they hit us into by
12:20
that that you have made this mistake had. Now
12:22
how we can get outfit Austin is much more
12:24
that Molson Scum school masterly such as a six.
12:27
Got into modeling need sorted out. And.
12:29
What is the ultimate objective
12:31
is the point to just
12:33
achieve. Linguistic. Clarity.
12:36
Conceptual clarity is that. The.
12:38
End in itself. I think initially
12:41
it was between about nice and
12:43
forty five or sixty five. I
12:45
think that was Austin's view that
12:47
basically if you got complete linguistic
12:49
clarity then these so called philosophical
12:51
questions would ultimately dissolved and basically
12:53
philosophy could be wound up on
12:55
would be as an end. but
12:57
his views after that change. I
12:59
think he thought that after ten
13:01
years of effort it didn't look
13:03
like any philosophical problems been particularly
13:05
cleared up and be controls were
13:08
asked questions about what exactly has.
13:10
Been results will be seminars
13:12
investigation conducted. Also, Austin
13:14
can't walk or something else. Paychecks
13:17
noticed by briefly describe what's be
13:19
checks are and space sleep what
13:21
you do in using language in
13:23
using sentences. When people start grammar
13:26
school you'll tell therefore consensus questions,
13:28
exclamations, descriptions and commands and using
13:30
that passes within the first thirty
13:32
seconds of the lesson and picks
13:35
a new of again but Austen.
13:37
Good luck with these and began
13:39
to ask questions about well, where
13:41
does promising fit into those for.
13:44
Kinds of Census for example is the
13:46
command is the question does if none
13:48
of so, what about congratulating have that
13:50
fit and again that doesn't quite fit
13:52
to said We need really need to
13:54
rethink this whole business about kinds of
13:56
sentences or what we do with sentences
13:58
newcomer to see or speak. Basically
14:01
he divides the speech act into
14:03
three parts. The first part is
14:05
location which is what as she
14:07
said of the census, there's then
14:09
the elocution act which is what
14:12
you do when using sentence for
14:14
example, promising, excommunicating, marrying, naming whenever
14:16
tennis. The pearl extracts which is
14:18
the effects of what you say
14:20
was is mostly boring, surprising, astonishing,
14:22
depressing, and so forth. And with
14:25
this threefold classification of language, he
14:27
just much better job of giving
14:29
an overview. Of what we do with
14:31
language which is the foundation of. A
14:33
new academic subjects which is that Now
14:35
stuff hidden from ah sweet and in
14:38
Linguistics said this sounds like he's doing
14:40
philosophy in a very different way from
14:42
his early years when he's to specs
14:44
and when the our ordinary language is
14:46
actually lose on that's completely true. I
14:48
think there was a real sea change
14:51
for example, speech checks is a theory
14:53
and Austen and the and his of
14:55
the Wolves or Kill theories. Second, he
14:57
comes up with a whole new vocabulary,
14:59
whole new jargon of his you Phoenix
15:01
panic effects and so forth. Whereas before.
15:03
He'd rather disapproved of jargon and be
15:06
suspicious of it. Thirdly, he clearly for
15:08
that Silsby should be done as a
15:10
kind of team effort and there's no
15:12
sign that Austin actually worked as his
15:14
here's be set where the team is,
15:16
something he came up with by himself
15:19
and actually he's no longer doing linguistics
15:21
glossary which is a message applicable to
15:23
all areas of loss. Me is now
15:25
concentrating on a new topic called the
15:27
Philosophy of Language which has a beginning
15:29
to come into existence largely through Boston's
15:31
and work which is a. sub discipline
15:34
philosphy it it's a whole new area
15:36
and as a behave as you fifty
15:38
six his budget to pay because it's
15:40
and cans of the end of which
15:43
he outlines a three stage model of
15:45
philosophical inquiry the first stages where you
15:47
kind of survey the entire area and
15:49
do what he calls linguistic fundamentals you
15:52
can tremendous detail how we actually use
15:54
words the second stage is more theoretical
15:56
when philosophers and scientists and other researchers
15:58
begins collaborate on forward models and
16:01
theories and then testing them. The
16:03
third stage is when that subject really
16:05
gets going, breaks away from
16:08
philosophy and acquires a new
16:10
name as do the practitioners. And Austen would
16:12
give examples like, for example, psychology in the
16:14
19th century was not part of philosophy, whereas
16:16
now it's not. Simply mathematical logic started off
16:18
with philosophers but now is a subject here
16:21
in its own right. And in our own
16:23
time we might think about something like artificial
16:25
intelligence, which was initially largely of interest to
16:27
philosophers and now the departments of artificial intelligence
16:29
were carried on. And clearly his
16:31
own theory of speech acts is a good
16:33
example of the second stage because philosophers and
16:35
linguists are actually concentrating on giving a more
16:37
precise theory of speech acts. And it's quite
16:39
possible that speech acts would eventually break away
16:42
and become a whole new area of linguistics.
16:44
And they're very good sides that that is
16:46
actually happening. We've talked about Austen's
16:48
war work, we've talked about his philosophy.
16:50
On the face of it they sound
16:52
like two entirely different domains. What,
16:55
if anything, is the connection between them? There's
16:58
an interesting letter which Austen writes to his wife
17:00
at the beginning of 1941 where
17:03
he says, I'm slightly dazzled because
17:05
I'm used to working on imponderables where
17:07
nobody really knows how to solve
17:09
them and nobody's actually that interested in
17:11
the answers. Whereas suddenly
17:13
I'm being asked very specific questions
17:15
like how many tanks are
17:18
there in a particular storage
17:20
site. And it's absolutely vital
17:22
I get the questions right and men's lives
17:24
depend on it. And when he's
17:26
writing these letters you can actually see him thinking,
17:29
why don't we do philosophy like that? And
17:31
the way they worked out answers to intelligence questions was
17:33
a general question would come in. It was
17:36
then broken down into smaller questions and given out
17:38
to specialists. The specialists would then research it. They
17:41
would all then get together in a kind
17:43
of seminar, they would report their
17:45
findings. And then Austen would
17:48
write a general report about the intelligence
17:50
findings and then this would be passed
17:52
on to the relevant authorities. And
17:55
he clearly thought, why don't we do philosophy like that? Why
17:57
does it have to be so individualistic? Why is it a
17:59
matter of individual duty? geniuses, you know, having
18:01
insights in McGarrat's. Surely
18:03
it should be conducted by committees
18:05
of intelligent people with assigned roles. And
18:07
when he started to set up this
18:10
group in Oxford, actually initially in 1947,
18:13
his Saturday morning group, he insisted
18:15
that, you know, they had a table, they
18:17
sat round it, somebody took minutes, research
18:20
projects were assigned. For example, HLA Hart,
18:22
the lawyer had to go for research
18:24
baseball, the rules of baseball for a
18:26
year. They would then feed back.
18:28
And I think Austin did sort of actually
18:30
tried writing some sort of general summaries and
18:32
reports on what they discovered. So
18:34
it had actually an immediate effect on
18:36
how he conducted philosophy. I mean, clearly he looks
18:38
at the positivists thinking, you know, they were serious
18:40
sober men into a certain they did quite a
18:42
lot of collaboration. But he was
18:45
thinking of a much deeper notion of collaboration.
18:47
And I think he thought for
18:49
a number of years, although for the cycle results
18:51
were not quickly coming, he thought eventually they would.
18:54
Now by 55, I explain, I think
18:56
that he'd gone to lose
18:58
faith in that idea. And basically,
19:01
after 1955, we see Austin change
19:03
from an Oxford linguistic philosopher to
19:05
an international philosopher of language, because
19:08
his work in speech acts was taken up
19:10
most seriously in the States. And
19:12
Austin thought that his futures philosophy lay there. And
19:15
he also thought that his influence in Oxford was
19:17
basically coming to an end, he thought he'd reached
19:19
the summit, the apple jay of everything you might
19:21
achieve in Oxford. And he was
19:23
beginning to look beyond Oxford. So you see
19:25
this change from an Oxford ordinary language
19:28
philosopher to an international philosophy language
19:30
basically focused on America and on
19:32
Scandinavia. And as an
19:34
Oxford ordinary language philosopher before this
19:37
transition with his Saturday group and
19:39
so on, were the aspects of
19:41
his personality which were conducive to
19:44
this kind of business committee meeting
19:46
approach to resolving philosophical problems. Yes,
19:49
I mean, Austin was a fairly
19:51
austere remote individual to people who
19:53
weren't intimate friends and members of
19:55
his family. People described
19:57
him as rather headmasterly, you know,
20:00
to be on your best behavior and
20:02
you wanted to impress him. I think
20:04
something else that's worth bearing in mind
20:06
is that many Dons in Oxford had
20:08
served in intelligence and knew about the
20:10
glamour of Austin's military career. And to
20:12
them, he was a very successful, formidable,
20:15
much decorated senior officer. And
20:17
I think some of that authority still
20:19
carries on into post-war Oxford. So yes,
20:21
he was very good at running committees.
20:23
I mean, he was extremely funny. He
20:25
made you laugh while apparently disapproving. And
20:28
it was said that when Austin died and Grice
20:30
took over the same seminar, I mean, Grice is
20:32
an absolutely excellent philosopher. He's a first-rate philosopher of
20:34
language, but it said that the seminars never
20:36
went quite so well. He just wasn't
20:38
quite so good at sort of bringing
20:41
out the best in people. And after
20:43
seven years, the group eventually dissipated. So
20:45
yes, Austin's analytic remoteness
20:47
and also his authority were
20:49
excellent for conducting these kinds
20:51
of sessions. And finally, now
20:53
that you have a deep
20:55
insight into his life and
20:58
personality, has that given you
21:00
also a more profound appreciation
21:02
of his philosophy? I
21:05
think his later judgment turns out to
21:07
be right. I mean, I think his
21:09
attempt to conduct
21:12
philosophical inquiry like intelligence
21:14
officers conducting inquiries into
21:16
military intelligence is very
21:18
important in the history of philosophy. It was
21:20
worth trying once. Similar,
21:22
his very minute investigations of
21:25
the nuances of English were
21:27
worth trying once, but
21:29
nobody does philosophy in that way
21:31
anymore. It's history, it's now in
21:34
the past. Whereas his
21:36
work on speech acts is still
21:38
very much alive. And as I
21:40
said before, the theoretical
21:43
stuff is largely constructed in linguistics
21:45
and it's become a kind of semi-science
21:48
and academic subject in exactly the
21:50
way he predicted. So I think
21:52
speech acts is his major contribution
21:54
to posterity. I want to
21:56
be said that it's very unusual for a philosopher
21:58
to come up with a theory. about
22:00
an area of intellectual life that's never been
22:02
mapped before and everybody takes
22:05
this up and thinks this is pretty much
22:07
right. Yeah I mean there's been obviously lots
22:09
of tinkering with Illicutiacs and what are Perlicutian
22:11
effects and so forth but basically people think
22:13
yeah this is right let's take this over
22:15
and let's develop this. That's very very unusual
22:17
in the history of philosophy. Even with Wigerson
22:19
you can't say well he was certainly right
22:21
about that and everybody now agrees with it.
22:24
So that's really a rather unique contribution
22:26
by Austen to come up with this
22:28
theory about this utterly neglected area
22:30
of grammar and come
22:32
up with something so illuminating. So that's a
22:35
very important contribution. Mark Wowe,
22:37
thank you very much indeed. Thank you very much. I
22:39
enjoyed it very much. For
22:48
more Philosophy Bytes go
22:50
to www.philosophybytes.com. You
22:52
can also find details there of Philosophy Bytes books
22:54
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