0:00

So

0:13

welcome very much, guys, and thanks very much for joining us today.

0:17

Maybe I can start off by asking you to introduce you, Daryn.

0:21

Maybe you go first.

0:22

Yeah, sure. Hi. Yeah, I'm gonna try that.

0:25

I'm the general manager of Project Securities Finance and the general manager.

0:29

Tim basically means I'm the owner and operational head of the group.

0:36

As you know, Roy, I've known you for a while, but I've been doing this rule about 13, 14

0:36

months now.

0:41

So pretty much at the beginning of the pandemic.

0:43

Telmo So a bit of a baptism, a baptism of fire up, to be honest.

0:48

But yes, it's been good. And I brought a lot of experience from my my folks like days in a few years I was a

0:49

product.

0:54

So it's been a been an enjoyable experience.

0:57

And I'm really looking forward to today, actually should be good fun.

1:01

I really enjoyed the podcast

1:03

And a technology enabled sort of baptism of fire as well.

1:09

Right. So really particularly important for for today's topic.

1:14

Yeah, absolutely.

1:16

And Vishal, please introduce yourself.

1:19

All right. Well, I.

1:22

I lead part of our international technology portfolio.

1:25

And in that role, I'm basically responsible for defining our technology roadmap nowhere

1:25

where we want that technology to be.

1:34

And how do we get. I think I've been in this world for the last I would say, six months, and before that

1:37

I've played other roles.

1:43

I've been with doctors for almost five years now.

1:47

And I think that it's that wider perspective that we're really going to try and draw on

1:53

Right. Because although although the audience is generally securities finance, the truth

1:53

is I don't really know where securities finance begins and ends these days

2:03

because it is pretty much a pervasive part of today's plumbing.

2:06

So it's all one continuum to me. So, Daryn, listen, we started off in your explanation by talking about kind of the future

2:09

and where people are going and everything.

2:16

So maybe maybe that's a good place to start.

2:18

Why don't you tell us, what are your customers talking to you about in terms of where

2:18

they want to go?

2:24

That should set an interesting scene for.

2:27

Yeah, absolutely. So I guess what we're seeing and we're seeing the same types of questions or asks from

2:28

clients,

2:38

and it's probably around a number of themes.

2:41

So one of them is how do they keep pace with some of the modern technologies that are out

2:41

there and use them to the best of their abilities?

2:50

And you are exactly what you said that about.

2:52

Where does finance start and end? There's so much crossover between where data is and how you can use it.

2:59

That's definitely something we're seeing our customers and asking us about is how we can

2:59

help with that data that lives in multiple places.

3:07

There's definitely automation requests and I use the word automation loosely there.

3:14

It's really about looking at waste and seeing how how can we be more efficient and how

3:14

can the system be more efficient via

3:24

automation and looking at things that are repetitive and that can be turned into robotic

3:24

processes

3:33

and looking for. You know, if you think about 10 years ago, everyone was looking for AEP.

3:39

They're looking for the rates to be up at ninety five percent, ninety eight percent,

3:39

etc..

3:44

Well, that's great. But then what do you do with the last two percent that relied on

3:44

people?

3:49

So as new products come in, your HTP rate generally goes down and then it starts to

3:49

advance again.

3:56

So how do we speak to how do we get new products off the ground quite quickly?

4:00

And that's where that sits in the middle, if you know what I mean.

4:03

You've got the 80 percent. You've got the 18 percent of area in robotics concern.

4:08

And there's always going to be the little bit at the top that people need to look at and

4:08

manually intervene.

4:13

And so we've got clients asking about those things as well.

4:15

How do we bring that all together? And then probably the other core theme that.

4:23

We're seeing more within security's financial base than ever before is at platforming.

4:30

So how do I get a platform that helps me?

4:34

That's a standard way of doing it. So if you think about within the security, finance speaks about standards equally in this

4:36

kind of become a default standard on how we do things.

4:43

You've got Padam, which again are a default standard, but there's so, so much green space

4:43

in the middle there, especially our own systems that people are looking for.

4:51

OK, how do I get a standard approach to this that I can use quickly for rolling out new

4:51

products, new clients, etc.?

4:58

And a lot of those standards come from technology and they come from the ability to be

4:58

able to add in volume and and scale other new

5:07

products in a standard way. And that that's that's definitely something we see a lot of our clients asking for.

5:12

And then probably the last thing is.

5:16

Customers want the easiest way to describe the process, and we have kind of the similar

5:16

similar age groups where

5:26

there's the expectation no from the younger generation, that things are apps, they just

5:26

walk, you can just download them and they work and they work seamlessly and

5:36

quickly. And I would say the expectation that expectation is coming into is fine.

5:41

And let's just call the operations segment of settlements, including much more know where

5:41

people just want the ability to plug something in and to play

5:51

immediately. And that requires investment because you need your systems to be able to

5:51

plug into those things.

5:59

It's all very well having a new app that sets in a world that looks fantastic.

6:04

But if you can actually get your data to it or your data from it, it's not going to help

6:04

you.

6:08

And that's what our customers really have started to ask us is how do we change the

6:08

technologies with them to be able to plug in to do things quickly?

6:16

And so, yeah, there's things there.

6:18

And I would say it's the same story across the world as well.

6:22

Those themes are all converging into sort of the same no matter what jurisdiction people

6:22

are.

6:28

Yeah, that's an interesting question, because one of the real trends over the last 20

6:36

So so really, where is anyone actually located?

6:40

Because most firms have units just about everywhere.

6:45

And it is one kind of continuum of activity, really.

6:49

Twenty four seven, isn't it?

6:51

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

6:54

The demands of people in regions different, like you're saying now, it's really across the

7:00

Everyone is really heading in the same direction.

7:03

Was it different historically or is it just more prevalent now because people talk more

7:03

about what their demands are?

7:11

I would say people talk more and there's been expectations set with other types of

7:21

same, you know, if we're able to do it for shopping, if we're able to do it for your

7:21

retail stuff that you buy online, whether it's mobile phones,

7:31

whether it's electricity, whether it's gas, you know, and the reality, as most of these

7:31

systems are 60 percent the same.

7:37

So why can't we do it for cell phones, including why can't we have all of these things no

7:37

matter what the region?

7:43

So that's what it's it's changed a little.

7:45

But the world got used to working in certain ways.

7:48

And certain aspects of investment banking and asset management are probably still behind

7:48

the curve there compared to where they definitely want to get to.

7:58

And that's key. I think everyone knows where we want to get to.

8:01

It's just getting there. And that's some of the challenges we can talk about as we go

8:01

through to decision, which is really interesting.

8:07

Yeah, well, Vishal, that kind of that kind of takes us on to kind of the technology side

8:13

Look, I'm a simple guy, as Darren says.

8:16

You know, I have all kinds of apps. I can download an app today that will change my life today.

8:22

Right. Help me track something. Help me get information.

8:24

Help me buy something. Help me with analytics.

8:28

I can take seconds. So why is really the entire investment community?

8:35

Why is technology really behind why isn't it already meeting the demands of of the

8:35

community?

8:43

What are your thoughts maybe on the history and where we are and where we're going?

8:48

I think just to build on what data and see what I'm hearing, what we are hearing from our

8:59

Right. They have invested a significant amount in what have now become a legacy system.

9:08

Right, and now they need to improve on it, on modernizing them would require another

9:08

significant investment.

9:16

At the same time, they have got competitors who are investing very heavily and they can

9:16

really undercut our clients by offering better customer experience

9:26

at a lower cost. So I think historically, we never had that kind of competition where a

9:26

newcomer can come in and talk a lot,

9:38

but with the advent of technology, with the advent of, I would say, cloud artificial

9:38

intelligence that arguably are coming in, which are opportunities disrupting the

9:46

technologies, so many companies are actually struggling to keep pace with that.

9:52

We can see a lot of, I would say, Kunsong time and uneasiness, not blind to face off with

9:52

this new balance.

10:03

That's that's, I think is where we see that trend moving towards

10:08

And by its nature, like a authentic in order for it to succeed, needs to be destructive.

10:15

So what you probably have found five years ago was the fanatics were destructive around

10:15

their core.

10:21

But over time, we're really seeing that fanatics are starting to eat into the middle, the

10:21

middle, the real nuts and bolts of financial markets eating into the middle, whether it's

10:29

settlement, whether it's kloeden, whether it's communications, know all of these aspects

10:29

that the companies keep coming in and start eating into that corner

10:39

because the technology, they are it's faster to deploy.

10:43

And as I said, they can provide customer experience that probably wasn't there five or 10

10:43

years ago.

10:50

And that's the really interesting part as to how the banks keep pace with themselves.

10:55

And you probably have seen articles recently where certain banks have started like

10:55

fintech hubs, authentic labs, where they bring in some of the

11:06

the startup companies and see what they can do with them that are really good, where the

11:06

banks actually increasing their velocity to change.

11:14

And because if they were just building it themselves with the normal.

11:20

Banking way of building things, they don't have that same pace as a fintech, so putting

11:20

in that external experience is is something that's beginning to

11:30

change and it's just about investment.

11:32

How do you find investment dollars to do that?

11:36

Well, at the end of the day, that's the question, right.

11:38

So how do you actually fund this? So we've just been through this phase of SFTR, which took a lot of investment, took a lot

11:40

of people resources, took a lot of

11:50

time, and really at a time when revenues haven't necessarily been the best.

11:57

Now we're kind of past the Leive phase of SFTR, although I wouldn't actually say it's

11:57

business as usual yet.

12:06

There's still lots to do there. But but where does the funding come from?

12:09

Because because if I was a business that I'd be going f forget about all that all that

12:09

infrastructure stuff you talked about.

12:15

Forget that I want stuff that will make me money today.

12:18

I mean, what what are the thoughts and views that you're getting from people on that?

12:24

Well, I guess I guess it's about. Same mindset, why would why would you want to do be like let's just focus on doing other

12:27

stuff?

12:34

If you think about it logically as a story, it's OK.

12:37

I'm not a clever guy. You don't use the phrase ISLA.

12:40

So it's like, OK, why would this work for me?

12:44

How does it then make my business better?

12:46

So it's going to make your business better in a couple of. It's going to reduce your cost.

12:50

That's going to reduce your risk or it's going to allow you to make more money.

12:54

So let's hope it does all three. Right, because that's the if you can get all three things happening with that investment,

12:56

why would you not invest?

13:02

Because your revenue can go up, your costs can go down and your risks can start to

13:02

lessen.

13:06

So it's about that story of understanding what to s understanding about is a revenue

13:06

driver as a Kosovar is a risk reduction plan that you're doing or

13:16

hopefully all three. And then how do I get there?

13:20

And I think that's the key aspect then as I understand why, as I understand the benefits.

13:25

But how do I then transition towards it?

13:28

I don't think those are a simple step, that it's not a click of the fingers.

13:33

There's a path that you need to go down in as well.

13:36

Yeah, and I think that's the real challenge.

13:39

Know reminds me a lot of where we've come with collateral over the last sort of 10, 12

13:39

years where, you know, a dozen years ago, if you knew that collateral was spelled

13:49

with a C instead of a K, you were pretty much an expert.

13:52

And there was no real copycat pathway to say, you know what, that firm does it really

13:52

well.

13:59

We're going to copy that, but we're going to tweak it so that it fits for our

13:59

organization.

14:03

You know, everyone's kind of been making it up as they go along and we're in a different

14:03

place today.

14:08

But, you know, go back 10 years ago, there was that that was the challenge.

14:12

And I think it's the same thing with technology. Know every company that talks about this, they talk about wanting to innovate and being

14:14

innovative.

14:21

And truly, I think that it's a word that I've used to describe it as later vate what they

14:21

want is someone else to innovate and then they'll do it later after the other guys have

14:30

proven it. Right. And one thing I'm curious about, Fischell, with those disruptive new

14:30

challengers, are they able to be

14:39

disruptive because technology has advanced or is it their own mindset and the way that

14:39

they that they market their products

14:49

or focus their products? Is it just the fact that it looks better to customers or is it customers just being more

14:51

demanding?

14:57

And any thoughts on that?

15:00

I think there are multiple factors that plays into our destructive, I would say, so to

15:10

As we all know, most of the bank actually call themselves fintech themselves because

15:10

whatever they are doing on the line is actually a technology.

15:19

So technology definitely is one thing which is starting.

15:23

But at the same time, I think it is also the mindset of how quickly and how effectively

15:23

you can implement that to keep pace of it while we are

15:33

talking about people who want to follow at the same time, the pace of change is so fast

15:33

nowadays that if you wait for too long,

15:43

somebody can actually come along. And the feeling that your market share so banks needs to keep pace with technology.

15:52

At the same time, I think you finding it harder to find and comfortable to look at it.

15:58

All these new technologies, artificial intelligence banks, are basically the need to keep

15:58

pace with it because it helps them to

16:08

reduce their risk and it has to go.

16:11

And that's what the banks need to stay competitive.

16:15

So I guess it's a combination of all these factors which helps us to really call to

16:15

somebody as a follower of.

16:26

You know, Daryn, you mentioned three things, you know, revenue enhancement, risk reduction

16:34

I put a fourth to that. And that is timing, right?

16:38

Because I've worked in banks for a long time.

16:41

And the biggest challenge I see is that the project is for 18 months or two years or

16:41

three or we have a 10 year program and

16:51

none of that ever happens. And I can't see a business head today taking a decision on any of those really sensible

16:52

things you talked about with an extended time horizon.

17:02

So isn't that isn't that a challenge?

17:04

Yeah, it is. And there's a there's a a playoff there between fully functioning features

17:14

So, like minimum viable product. And we have discussions quite a lot with clients around, you know, OK, we can get you to

17:16

market with 80 percent of the functionality in 20 percent of the time.

17:24

Well, you know, the rest is still to be done.

17:26

But there's probably then the absolute benefits from being an early adopter of something.

17:33

And, you know, from working in banks, you know, as a trader, you trade, you've done

17:33

somebody else's problem, but all those problems don't

17:43

stream. Those are the ones that sometimes take a while to really work out how you would

17:43

want the automation to be so you can automate the front, that we can automate the trading

17:51

decisions. So, you know, if if we look at some of the the stuff that's been done by

17:51

buying some of our clients from some other banks out there around

18:01

using eEye to help with pricing, so trying to find the right securities financing rate

18:01

for use in the eye, a few banks are doing that today.

18:10

That's really cool. And how they're doing at the brain and data from multiple sources,

18:10

whether it's life or satellite data from IHS market, their own data that we can bring in

18:20

from the street, what the demands are, et cetera, that can help them with any base

18:20

decision which a trader would have had to do before when that trades

18:29

executed. That's all very well. But that trade still goes through the old lifecycle of trade.

18:35

Execution goes to the operations group, goes through validation, goes through saleman,

18:35

etc.

18:40

So and those aspects, well, maybe you can immediately automate what that's going to look

18:40

like.

18:46

So let's do an MVP for part of it.

18:50

Let's leave the more complex part alone just now and then see right next month we're

18:50

going to solve the next problem, the next month, solve the next problem.

18:59

So your your eighteen month project that you just talked about, Thomson eighty one month

18:59

projects with deliverables at the end of each, which adds value to the business of

19:09

being able to add more scale, being able to reduce risk, being able to reduce the number

19:09

of people that are on there and eventually you start eating away at the problem.

19:18

I do think that the there's two for four people who listen to this.

19:24

You are not technology people. There's two sort of ways of doing projects.

19:28

There's what's called waterfall, which is you basically take a nice, long project all the

19:28

way across.

19:34

And there's project where you have little small projects that run all the way across.

19:38

And agile is definitely the way that fanatic's work out.

19:42

It's definitely the way that software gets developed as well.

19:45

And if you can have lots of what large deliveries you start to mitigate some of that,

19:45

it's an 18 month project before I get value part of it, it may not be the

19:55

full value, but you start to see value very early on and that that's key to success

19:55

there.

20:01

And Vishal, does that change kind of how things are developed?

20:06

Does that change the approach from the actual the system development side of it?

20:10

And the implementation and and the testing is one of the challenges, obviously, is if you

20:10

have lots of small implementations within a large project, that's a lot of testing.

20:19

It's a lot of a lot of the infrastructure around that gets gets added on to so.

20:25

So while you might have some enhancements along the way, you've got a lot of, you know, I

20:25

would call it admin around that.

20:33

So you can tell I'm not really a tech diabete, but it is about that.

20:36

So that doesn't then offset some of the benefits Darren was talking about, where you see

20:36

early value by doing smaller pieces because it's actually just a heavier lift.

20:46

I think what that is about in terms of implementation.

20:50

Fundamentally change the way you look at a system of adding anything more to it.

20:57

It helps us to reduce waste more often than not, I think, than the plain English of the

20:57

system, the system they have what we call as needs and a

21:07

wishlist when they join the small, small, as we call it, cycles going to do is to put and

21:07

prioritize the needs of

21:17

ordinary citizens. And as they start seeing value, they have an opportunity to kind of

21:17

use it and provide feedback for the needs of business, which in my

21:26

experience has really helped to reduce a lot of waste, which otherwise would have been

21:26

that if you were going to put in one master plan, this is what you ask, but this is what

21:35

we provided. But as we know, there always has to be attrition.

21:40

If you can reduce those prices, you definitely reduce that.

21:43

So I think it's because Ontario I mean, all the people that you talk about in Edmonton,

21:43

it kind of has got nothing compared to what

21:53

helps to it.

21:55

And I guess maybe if maybe from both of you, I guess, is that is that sort of that kind of

22:01

Is that is that more beneficial because it's more interactive from beginning to

22:01

implementation?

22:08

And so some of the things that would have been specked developed, gone live and then sort

22:08

of adjusted because it wasn't quite right.

22:16

Is that because it kind of gets fixed along the way?

22:18

So it ends up a better way?

22:20

Exactly. Like I imagined building a house from plans and never going to visit yourself.

22:26

And at the end of the last day, you go in and go, it's not really what want it.

22:29

That wall is kind of the wrong place or I want it to switches over there or I want it to

22:29

Sanchia.

22:36

I know it said on the plan, that's why I want it. But when I went to use it, this is too far away from where things are.

22:43

So having those visits and trying it as your goal allows you to fix it before it's

22:43

solidified.

22:50

And I think that's the real key with our jails is constantly looking at what you want it

22:50

versus what's been delivered and said, yeah, that's OK, that's perfect.

22:58

Or can we have a little tweak here before we go into the next phase or as part of the

22:58

next delivery, can you make that small change for me and its principles?

23:08

Are you still of a scope?

23:10

You don't get to say, well, I know I said I want a one story house now.

23:14

I want a three storey house. It's not that type of scope.

23:16

Change is more about the details of when you actually use something.

23:20

What's the user experience like? What's the integration point like?

23:24

How is it going to work? And that that's where having those sort of principles of always

23:24

looking at what you've done on a cycle basis really helps.

23:33

But like going back to what we're talking about, about the model or the more modern

23:33

things that people are looking for.

23:40

If you try to deliver an ID based project on a no natural basis, I would feel simple.

23:47

So, you know, I mean, these these new things are coming along agile, as taken as a given.

23:53

There's no discussion on whether it's better or no.

23:55

It's that's how we're doing it. So and that's the thing to think about as well as the world's change to such an extent

23:57

where.

24:04

These small projects that can run a run in Idaho and this is that there's no other

24:04

there's no other way around it and it's key to success.

24:13

And that's why these small, authentic start ups do succeed, because they can just go in

24:13

and see what we're going to do today.

24:19

And literally is what are we doing today based on the needs that we have from the client

24:19

and you know that banks and really start to think about like that.

24:28

We as well, we all want with a couple of customers who have gone down that path and went

24:28

down there.

24:33

What you said is, is it going to be harder?

24:35

Is the more I mean, is there more work to do?

24:38

Is there more testing to do? Well, there's always more of something.

24:42

So let's make it something that's of value as opposed to something that's waste.

24:46

And that's that's been the real success for me, seeing the last sort of 10 years of

24:46

changes, there's definitely less waste in some of the processes.

24:56

And it gets back to what you said about the fourth thing, timing.

25:01

If you can reduce waste, if you can do it faster, if you can get the timing there, walks

25:01

a little bit after.

25:08

Absolutely. You can get your money out there very, very fast.

25:12

Something which is a real value to you and your clients.

25:16

And that's got to be rewarding for the development team as well to to see actually the

25:22

Right. Because the users always end up with the output, whether they like it or not.

25:26

They get the results of whatever the work has been done.

25:28

But it's got to be better for the development team to say, actually, we worked on this

25:28

and they're using it and it's working the way that they wanted it to.

25:35

That's going to be just personally quite satisfying.

25:38

Yeah, I guess, you know, certain people like it may and more because they get that

25:48

can see them if you put a perspective of reality, of what's at the end of the project,

25:48

we're going to be very critical of you or we're going to be critical of you of small

25:58

things ten times. Which one would you prefer? Because either you it's like users will always be critical of what they want changing.

26:05

But I would rather be told ten small times in one large statement and realize that all

26:05

the effort that you put and I know have to be reversed and do something else.

26:14

So that's where that's definitely a mindset thing as well, to really buy into the theory

26:14

of the smaller cycles and how it works without

26:24

going back, that we will be able to do things like robotics because it really has to be

26:24

small deliverables that the other that are complete and not an advantage.

26:35

So I think I came from a very from my experience, I from I mean, there was only work

26:45

And just to answer your question, I would not like to go back if this is how we it to be.

26:53

So, Darren, you thought you gave us one example of of using current or reasonably current

27:02

new trading, and I think trading has hit as been the focus of so much of the technology

27:02

development that we've had really since I've been in business.

27:12

And I make sense because because visually, you look at it and you say, well, the trade is

27:12

where we make the revenue.

27:18

So, of course, we want to be the best at that. But I think, you know, the variability between the fastest and the slowest is really

27:21

compressed pretty dramatically.

27:29

So the next phases of where else do you see obvious places or plays that are already

27:29

underway for an application?

27:39

If I got a good example.

27:42

So if you think about something, probably that let's think of it, Reconciliation's.

27:48

So Reconciliation's are basically rules engines that you code or define what rules you

27:48

want around Muchin.

27:56

And then one day a new trade comes in and there's a break and you go, oh, Aditya's

27:56

another rule.

28:02

Just realize, OK, we start to trade in Nederlands.

28:05

No, we haven't before. But the difference is something else.

28:08

We've gotten a new rule. So you have to do more Code II with reconciliation.

28:13

Does that for you because it allows so instead of you having a code in a new rule, you

28:13

can say, well, that's actually a much.

28:20

OK, why is it much? So I then start to learn about why you've done that and it starts to

28:20

build its own rules.

28:27

So like an Reconciliation's in the eyes as a really good tool to save you having to go

28:27

back and make further changes.

28:35

And it helps it learn. And as you add in different types of transactions, it helps it learn.

28:39

So that's something that we see a number of our clients do not touch with our

28:39

Reconciliation's Anei platform.

28:46

It's other banks do it as well. So, again, we're not inventing the idea.

28:51

We're reusing or kind of memorable phrase use.

28:54

But you're and you're not you're just using something.

28:59

No. That standard to help you move forward.

29:02

So that's definitely something that we see value for.

29:04

And one of the other ones that that we're looking at just now and really there's a couple

29:04

of drivers to CSDR Saleman Fields is a big reason for us looking at it.

29:15

There's recently a shortened settlement cycle for the US, which is probably about two

29:15

years out realistically to bring it to a T one.

29:23

So those are going to drive settlement fields, undoubtedly, which if you have a

29:23

settlement, feel in a T1 market, that's going to be quite helpful.

29:32

So how do you predict it? So using eEye to look at previous settlement data to then be able to predict when a trade

29:34

comes in, is it likely to fail?

29:42

What's its likelihood as a percentage whatsits?

29:46

However, you want to render that back to the user, to this trade looks good.

29:50

Greenan borate. It could be as simple as that.

29:52

Grinners is going to go through Ambriz as a potential ghiorso.

29:56

What your mitigation rate is likelihood very high.

30:00

What do we need to do so that that you know yourself?

30:04

If you traded a say on asset class and I say a country with a certain counterparty, you

30:04

would probably know if it was going to sell or not.

30:12

Right. That's one trade. Took a million trips to a human.

30:17

Can't do that anymore. But that's where the eye can really come in and help you.

30:21

But it's all about data. It's all about being able to get the data feeds life or pseudo away from systems.

30:29

It's all about being able to bring in data from multiple sources as well.

30:33

And you see, I've read quite a lot of press lately about that data and stuff like that.

30:40

Like we even with a SFTR banks don't have what you would call big data.

30:46

We just have a lot of data. But it's not to the size of the regularly getting bombarded with every bank they SFTR

30:48

that's the size.

30:56

But for banks themselves, they're going to have a lot of data that they can use that they

30:56

are for power.

31:02

You know, how can they commercialize that information?

31:05

They've got to help them with the eye.

31:07

And that's the that's the really cool is if you can bring the data together that they're

31:07

sending to all sorts of places, there's no tools available to help them

31:17

reduce the cost, increase their revenue or reduce the risk.

31:21

So that's what we really see in a really good use cases, saleman field production,

31:21

because there's almost like penalties if we fail.

31:29

So we don't want that. But we think about settlement fields for Ricos as well.

31:34

In a short sale cycle market, you know, all of this stuff is going to be really cool

31:34

tools that you could build to help you there.

31:41

And and I think for probably the next year, our focus will be around ended peacefully.

31:52

How can we do it to help and then I use the term green, no red there, but it's the start

31:52

of how do users then want to see it?

32:01

You know, if I just show you a traffic light to begin with and you see one more detail,

32:01

OK, how do you want it visualized?

32:08

And then we go through another cycle of visualizing that data to them or showing them a

32:08

different way or different dashboards and stuff like that.

32:15

So some cool stuff to come on the operational side if we can if we have the data.

32:22

Yeah, well, you know, in in the earlier days when we were trying to introduce the concept

32:27

and robotics and staff were really skeptical, like all these things do, is just replicate

32:27

what people do.

32:34

And as you point out, is more question about the scale and the speed at which it happens.

32:38

But but the reality is it all has to start with understanding how the business works and

32:38

what you do with this happens and what you do if that happens and then learning from that.

32:48

But the show I'm curious how much of the ability that we have to to be even talking about

32:48

these ideas is is because of new technology development.

32:58

Is it that technology is getting better or our thought processes and where we can apply

32:58

technology improving?

33:08

I think it's definitely a combination of both.

33:11

I will say it has been around for 20 years.

33:17

It just that now we have a lot more use cases of better applied artificial intelligence.

33:25

So I think that's that's a business model for business now, understand and recognizes how

33:25

it can be used to get advantage of various places

33:35

that it is is different. And as about it.

33:40

We have seen our clients, banks doing a lot of experiments.

33:44

You'll see politics around it. But I think the key right now is to how those experiments and get them to a successful

33:46

enterprise wide implementation.

33:54

And that's, I think requires for I think the two things that is needed is data and

33:54

computing for.

34:03

So to your point, if you think about some of the press that I've seen lately about just

34:13

drivers, to help stock the vans with the drivers to know what they're going to deliver,

34:13

knowing that the traffic flows, knowing what kind of

34:22

and building the cars that are delivering and to show they know how long it's going to

34:22

take someone to get the van, get the partial, take up four flights of stairs, bring it

34:31

back again. All of that data has then help them build the best route for delivery for

34:31

each driver.

34:39

No, that's a use case like that use case has always existed.

34:43

But no, there are so many deliveries now.

34:45

This is a really valid use case. But they're using, as you said, computing power and technology for something is already

34:47

proven and in a different way.

34:53

So it's all about a mindset change.

34:56

And that's when I read that for some reason to be able to bring all that data together

34:56

from different sources, whether it's the guy's PDA we see and I've got the partial

35:05

scanning in the van. How long does it take me to get to that location on all that stuff

35:05

makes a massive difference.

35:11

So somebody's pulling old together into a really valid use case.

35:15

But the power of technology on the back of it is a key.

35:19

And I just just to add last point on the wire technology, what is available now is usable

35:29

There's an estimate would say, is this conclave's billion once?

35:36

So if you were to imagine the car coming down the road, if you need to make that happen,

35:36

you need to be able to control those billion data points from the cost of processing some

35:46

of the huge processing capacity and be able to make those decisions very quickly and

35:46

bring them back to the car.

35:53

That technology was unimaginable.

35:56

Just I would say it just the off of the communication technology and the cloud which is

35:56

making it happen, other than the fact that it really started to

36:06

identify a lot.

36:09

Right. It's the challenge, though, that I see is these are still conceptual things.

36:15

So if we go back to what I was talking about in terms of the risk people take, you know,

36:15

applying A.I.

36:22

to multiple tasks I can see has some value.

36:26

But there's still there's going to be a little bit of experimentation there.

36:30

So so if we say that, that's where eventually we're going to try and get to is is

36:30

robotics and automation, is that is that kind of an interim step that gives us

36:39

some of the benefits you were talking about and is more straightforward or is that just

36:39

present different challenges?

36:48

I think it's an interim step for some aspects, but it's also the end step for others, you

36:58

an aspect to them. So you may have a repetitive known process that never changes that you want to automate.

37:05

And then there's a process that will change over time that you need to learn and develop.

37:09

So I think the the key challenge is.

37:18

So come back to the story, right? We understand that we want to make it better.

37:23

We understand what our use case in our demands.

37:26

So how do we start on that technology story to get to the end?

37:30

And that's something that we see a lot of our clients kind of struggling with as they

37:30

move from what they've got to really want to be, what's the journey for them?

37:40

And and even if you take Broadridge the equation or if you take a physics equation to the

37:40

bank just runs their own technology shop, well, they've got the

37:50

same problem. So it's it's about then sort of saying, how do I build a team who

37:50

understands what we need to do?

37:59

How do I look at the platforms I have today and make some hard decisions about do you

37:59

keep them or do you get new ones or do you keep the

38:09

legacy platform that have adapters that allow you to connect them to them so you can

38:09

start to go to today?

38:15

Because, you know, there isn't there's a finite amount of money available for investment.

38:21

So it's about choosing the right things to invest in.

38:24

And quite often you can get the biggest bang for your buck that you can get is really

38:24

about if I build a component here that can get data out of this platform that I can then

38:34

use in five different use cases just like Facebook for me.

38:38

So it's really about trying to identify the technology that's required to get the data

38:38

there and then these sort of modules that you want to bring in and whether it's an

38:48

external fintech or something, you build yourself around the automation.

38:52

They can just grab that data from you because you've essentially got a computer and it

38:52

sits in the middle that's got the older side on the left and the new fancy side on the

39:01

right. And all you're doing is moving the data through that pipe.

39:04

And if we can help clients with that, that quite often really speeds up what they're

39:04

doing.

39:10

And to me, I think

39:13

It is not just there are some of these things, whether these are I think I would always

39:23

because artificial intelligence and machine learning, as we call it tomorrow, and maybe

39:23

quantum computing will be something else.

39:30

Something else will continue to come on. But the fundamental thing which touched upon is how do we understand what the business is

39:32

targeting and how do I make sure that

39:42

I get to that business base with the investment that I need, which would give me the best

39:42

return?

39:47

And how can I acknowledge that, that it is artificial intelligence?

39:50

Something else can help me move there. And I think that's the biggest thing, which are any by product lines would continue to

39:52

go.

39:58

That's not going to stop. I think that will continue to happen or a period of time with this technology.

40:04

Someone you have seen that in the last 20 years and.

40:09

Well, that's that's the point I was going to make, you know, some of what Darren was

40:19

of this industry runs on legacy technology that is really quite creaky.

40:26

Right. And yet you have all of these new wishes, new demands, all of these disruptors,

40:26

all of this, all of these connections, everything.

40:36

To me, that's the biggest hurdle. The biggest hurdle is how do I get from where I am to where I want to be, because that

40:38

changes all kinds of things.

40:44

You know, my one of my last firms, they didn't I was trying to get them to go to cloud

40:44

based.

40:52

And because we had all these people there that were responsible for overseeing and then

40:52

we had to have all these sharing agreements, we had have backups and everything going, why

41:00

do I have to have all these boxes and all these people looking after these boxes?

41:05

And they just completely dismissed me.

41:07

So so some of it is is is actually about the mindset.

41:11

Right. And some of it is about how, you know, if I can't if my legacy systems are plugged

41:11

into 17 internal systems, that's just

41:21

that's that's a hard lift. That's a hard thing to change.

41:25

And at the same time, you've got apps and these disruptors coming in.

41:30

And I'm going as a business manager. I want to have that. So what does that do to the technology, infrastructure, thinking and

41:32

approach?

41:39

Like what? What are the challenges?

41:42

I think, as you rightly touched upon that for a bank, it's a really, really hard

41:48

I and I would say I would actually caution and say, you really want to change the system

41:48

if they're fit for purpose, right?

41:56

What you need against the need has to be defined.

41:59

The need is that you want to provide a nice interface to your customers.

42:04

Meeting your customers are the need to modernize the system.

42:07

If if the phone is that to meet, you can create interfaces, so to speak.

42:13

And technology basically will allow you an API database, which will allow you to get it

42:13

out of your system and do whatever you want to do with any kind of visualization

42:23

you want to put on it. And the same data can be used for an AOG machine learning a lot.

42:27

And you don't really have to do that if if you have reached a point where the system is

42:27

not fit for purpose.

42:35

That's a very, very different case and you should look at it appropriately, but not for

42:35

you caught up with the trend of creating an app which can

42:45

be figured out in a very different way.

42:47

And that's why I think an experienced partner is very, very useful, which can guide you

42:47

through a process where they have goals with

42:57

many such people who have been in that boat, ask them to implement the right decision, so

42:57

to speak.

43:04

And if you look at securities lending as an example of that, if you take a legacy

43:14

Saleman said, that action, that billing, if you can say, well, I have to change my legacy

43:14

platform because these things are all feeling, I've got problems with Beling

43:24

actions, it's not automated enough, etc..

43:28

You've got two choices. You say, well, I'm going to replace everything in that platform, including all the

43:29

trading and stuff which works fine but have to or want me to do so.

43:36

I'm going to create an interface that allows me to connect off to a corporate actions

43:36

adapter that can look after that, that can say that can connect those settlements platform

43:45

that's built for purpose to do that and connect off to a billing system.

43:51

OK, so all you mentioned is, well, I can switch off these functionalities that are

43:51

underperforming, replace them with an interface, that's why the end of the day, whatever

43:59

it needs to be, and then you can get on with your business of plugging in those modules.

44:04

And because of the nature of the data that securities financing typically produces, it's

44:04

really off three types.

44:12

It's trade information, it's saleman information or it's financial information like

44:12

Beling and valuations.

44:20

If you can capture that three types of data, the platform, you're pretty much done.

44:25

You've pretty much covered everything that you would ever need. If you've got trade, you can build positions.

44:30

If you've got financial information, you can do accounting, you can do billing.

44:34

If you've got a settlement based information, you can do anything around Drechsler and

44:34

paintings, etc..

44:40

So if that can be captured or have some kind of API, you can start to plug in those

44:40

modules and you don't have to take that hard decision around, replace a legacy

44:49

platform. But like anything, the more that you eat from the big pie, eventually it

44:49

becomes easier to swallow the last piece.

44:57

So that's the way to do it, is to do a few legacy.

45:01

Left, though, is is difficult for people, but technologies now allow us to build in these

45:01

APIs, take segments of that pie out, and eventually you're just left with a few

45:10

pieces, which again, you can take in a different way.

45:13

And that's some of the tools that you probably saw in the banks that you wanted to plug

45:13

in and that that was part of that that that part.

45:21

And if you think back about probably, what, 12 years ago, 11 years ago when Equilar and

45:21

really came along, that was seen as one of these or how am I going to do it?

45:30

Perspective's, but is now part of that big pie because it's been integrated and it's

45:30

become part of the solution.

45:36

So, you know, it's something that over time more people are doing and they're making it

45:36

more standard to have these systems

45:46

around do these things. And then that's as we get value from technology spend.

45:52

The more you can invest in an interface layer, the more valuable it becomes to you

45:52

because you can plug in more systems.

45:58

So vicious, shouldn't banks just shut down their IT departments and outsource everything

46:08

stuff?

46:10

That's a very interesting question. Oh, I can understand you from my experience of when I started my career,

46:22

banks typically wanted to build a lot of technology, which they thought was appropriate.

46:27

Right. They kind of took pride in that, which was giving them a competitive edge for the

46:27

last 20 years.

46:34

I think that mindset has shifted.

46:38

I would not say a lot of language that was needed was proprietary no longer.

46:45

It is because think about it. Right. Regulation changes and the other huge thing that happen within that system.

46:52

So I, I think banks are still investing in technologies, but technology that gives them

46:52

the the other things they are definitely looking at

47:02

for us to outsource that because they don't think that works.

47:06

And for example, a settlement system, they don't think that the system is going to be any

47:06

different.

47:12

But I think maybe for our trading system, which is high frequency trading system, they

47:12

would still invest, they would develop because it gives them that.

47:19

So I think that's that there's a difference in mindset as to what you choose to be a

47:19

better qualified outsider.

47:28

So I'll let Darrin answer. But I think I think it can might from my own perspective, I've always considered

47:29

technology as a short term competitive advantage, which then becomes a level playing

47:39

field. And it's that continual process of we're going to improve something, then it's

47:39

going to become standard and you can broaden out the concept of technology.

47:48

There was a time when having a Bloomberg terminal was a competitive advantage because so

47:48

people had it.

47:54

So to me, that's technology. Even if all you were doing was punching into a dumb terminal effectively.

48:00

Right. So so technology is a very broad topic.

48:03

And I think it's I think it's interesting where you're talking about people focusing on

48:03

differentiators, because I think that that will always be the case.

48:11

How can I take and that's the value of having standards by having standards that everyone

48:11

has to meet.

48:18

You can then focus on the things that are beneficial because of your access, because of

48:18

your attitude, because of your technology, because of the boxes you run it

48:28

on, because of the people you whatever it is, whatever you think your edge is.

48:32

I don't want to compete on on settling my trades on time because that's not a competitive

48:32

advantage, even though today it actually might be if I'm more efficient than

48:42

my competition.

48:43

Yeah, and I think I totally agree with what you said over time, what's cutting edge become

48:50

So it's like when you say the like, should we just get rid of technology teams?

48:53

That's the thing I thought was as crazy redevelops is something that adds value redivert

48:53

redevelopment to R&D that allows them allows you

49:03

to do stuff that's really good, that gives you that next advantage, whether it's in

49:03

partnership or on your own.

49:09

And it's not just about that as well as if an organization is doing research and

49:09

development or even authentic costus research and development.

49:17

Guess what? You get the best people coming towards you.

49:20

The best people give you all the best output.

49:22

So you have the cycle of if you're doing something cool, people want to come, then you

49:22

get value from it.

49:29

And then you're right. Over time, in five years, what they've done will become standard.

49:32

So you do again. So I would I would never see like when we go to a bank and we talk to them about we can

49:34

replace these components with this, it's not OK.

49:42

Well, those people can then leave us. How do we reuse them?

49:45

How do you use the skills and knowledge about what can in that bank to add value back to

49:45

the bank?

49:51

And that's the key mindset that the really neat you have.

49:56

Well, I always wanted my technology people to be the people that interpreted what I want,

50:06

that did that for me. Whether they developed that or whether they bought it in or how, I

50:06

don't really care.

50:11

What I want is an outcome, not not a problem that they used to do is we can build that

50:11

for you.

50:17

That was just like the answer is like, how can you just do everything?

50:21

Which is really interesting because you've never done it before and so you magically can

50:21

do that.

50:26

So so I think I think that's right.

50:29

I would not do that. I think nowadays this does not add one more liquid, not just that you can do it, but how

50:30

can you give me a competitive advantage in the market.

50:39

Right, as we touched on earlier than what it cost me either to gain more or get more

50:39

margin or help me.

50:49

Do you think this ought to do to improve efficiency?

50:52

So they are looking at those factors. And when you stick that into consideration, the choices definitely becomes much more a

50:54

little bit more difficult for the technology, whether to do it on their own or go along

51:04

with it.

51:05

And is that still is that still a debate on per development project build versus buy it?

51:12

That's still part of every process.

51:17

Yeah, I think so. Yeah, because people are people, you know, the there's an element of especially in

51:18

technology people, there's an element of I can do that, I can

51:28

do this debased. And what other people have isn't as good as what I could do.

51:33

So there's definitely that element of it. But when it comes down, a good the type of people that you talked about, the technology,

51:35

people that you want to have, those people are kind of look beyond that and say, well, I

51:45

know we could do it, but it'll take us 12 months and there's a lot of risk in there or

51:45

there's something I know I can implement in three months.

51:52

And it's a working solution. So there's definitely always discussions I get to buy and build.

51:58

And then I would say partner is something that's there more than ever.

52:02

So what fun can I partner with that can give me the the outcome that I'm looking for,

52:02

whether it's a small fintech, whether it's a big company like Broadridge, how can I

52:12

partner with someone and we can do it jointly?

52:14

Because it's something sometimes it's about how many people do you have?

52:19

Other times it's about the experience that you've got.

52:21

Other times it's about the underlying infrastructure that's available at the moment.

52:26

As an example, it's very hard to buy new laptops just now because of the pandemic.

52:30

There's a shortage of equipment to build new laptops.

52:33

So if you want to scale up your business and add in a new data center, it's going to be

52:33

pretty hard at the moment.

52:39

So you are going to have to partner with other organizations.

52:41

You have that scale already available as a sort of a crude example.

52:46

But it's the truth. Sometimes you can't do what you want to do on your own.

52:51

You need help. And then we see that more often, especially with forms, it can just drop

52:51

in and help with that partnership and they can give you components are already there that

53:00

you can plug into your system. So that's one difference I see with the builder by you've got to start ruction on

53:08

What is part of the game. Always skeptical of words like partnership, because it's one of those words for people to

53:09

use.

53:14

So what is partnership look like in the kind of scenario that you just outlined?

53:20

Well, I guess it's you've got you've still got a vendor relationship for sure.

53:27

So you're still buying something, but you're not necessarily buying everything.

53:33

You're buying pieces from different people to bring it together.

53:37

And and you're perhaps buying some of the more complex pieces from the vendors and

53:37

building some of the simple stuff yourself you're perhaps seeing?

53:46

Well, I think both of you actually say that what was special about what I want and do I

53:46

want to retain the IP myself?

53:55

Do I want to build that aspect of my own and then use something more standard for some of

53:55

the processes or the ISLA I want to build?

54:05

Well, I know there's tools out there I can use, so I'm going to use the partner to help

54:05

me configure that.

54:10

I so it's all about just bringing in people from the outside world that you can use and

54:10

it may well just be on a short term basis and maybe an event, the

54:19

relationship basis where your rent and services from them.

54:23

It just may be a consultancy business, but we see that more and more that the org are

54:23

bringing those people in to help.

54:30

And I think that's one of the things that might have been in the forefront of that, is

54:38

And that's a very important thing. Our partner and hopes do not just sell you the solution, but you've got to make sure that

54:40

there is a buying for the tension within the

54:50

organization. Something a vendor, you know, if you go buy, buy something.

54:56

That's what we're just going to find an apartment.

54:59

I'm saying you to get there so you can implement it within the hour and whatever it takes

54:59

in terms of finding your people,

55:09

people creating that mindset, taking that mindset to all of those things.

55:14

And I think that that's a beautiful view.

55:18

I think that's exactly the point. Why? I quite like agile, because if you're actually interacting with people all the time,

55:20

you actually develop a relationship.

55:27

And because you're not spending the big ticket all at once, they've got it signed off and

55:27

they know they're going to collect the money.

55:34

They have an interest in continuing to help you develop the the program and the

55:34

implementation.

55:39

And so to me, it's a much closer relationship and might still be a vendor client

55:39

relationship.

55:44

But it is it is much, much closer.

55:47

So so that's a well-made point.

55:49

Fischell, one of the things, though, that is always a challenge is and we've all talked

55:49

about it, this is a people business.

55:58

So, you know, I gave a speech a few years ago in Hong Kong where the subject matter they

55:58

asked me to talk about was should traders worry

56:08

about their jobs because of A.I.?

56:11

And I think that sort of extended out as we've seen more in the robotics space and the

56:11

operational processes.

56:17

You talked about Reconciliation's, Daryn, on the side.

56:23

And if we talk about disruptive technology providers from bigger large firms, big or

56:23

small firms, all of that changes sort of the human

56:32

dynamics and the jobs. And look, the summary of my speech was, if all you do is get a phone call and make a

56:34

phone call and book a ticket, you're already in trouble.

56:42

Right. So so you need to find ways to solve problems and add value and look for benefits

56:42

and and improve processes.

56:51

And if you do that, then you'll adapt and change as time goes on.

56:55

But but to what extent do you think that the human sort of psyche of of clients and sort

56:55

of parts of clients, so the implementation teams, the

57:05

decision makers, the influencers, how much of that is is changing in their own minds in

57:05

terms of making the decision to apply more automation

57:15

and whatever form that it that it takes?

57:20

I think you used a really good word there, influencer, so I'm older, more dismal.

57:24

I'm oppressed. And so I think there needs to be well, there's the you know,

57:34

ideally you would see we're never going to reduce head count.

57:37

But of course, that's what everyone wants.

57:39

But the reality is that everyone is always looking for some form of savings reduction

57:39

and.

57:46

Well, what you know, as you said, if all you're doing is something simple, you're in

57:46

trouble.

57:52

So the good people will always stay.

57:55

You will always then be able to use those for adding value back in.

57:58

So I think if there's a mindset within the project team or the business team at the start

57:58

of a journey that by the end we want to have

58:08

done certain things, it's important that we stick to that and they have good reasons for

58:08

that is not I don't

58:18

think an outcome of ISLA or robotics is for people to no longer have a job.

58:24

I think an outcome for me in robotics is that you free people up to add value back to the

58:24

business.

58:29

And that's what we should be aiming for, because that those automation points doesn't

58:29

just save you money and people, it saves you money and operational

58:39

risk. It saves you. And how much money the organization spent in a fire fight the way out of problems, even

58:40

on the site.

58:48

How much wasted time is that? They're looking into doing things.

58:51

Think of that as a factor as massive.

58:54

If you can remove that from the business, but still keep the people, you're still saving a

58:54

ton of money.

58:59

So organizations have to think about the way that they're putting things in place as the

58:59

outcome, as people will have freed up time that we can then use to add value.

59:07

I don't know how many times I've been in Oregon. We can't do something new because we don't have the people.

59:14

How many times you hear that? Like, all the time, it will free the people up and you can do new stuff.

59:18

So it's a natural outcome from automation as you free people up that you can then do the

59:18

things that you can't do or how many times I heard we want to do something

59:28

that we don't have the people. So we have to go and get more budget.

59:32

We don't think about any more of the people.

59:34

It's the same budget, you know, so it's just a mindset thing.

59:37

And if the managers can get into that and that can be passed down to the delivery teams

59:37

and everyone can understand the outcome at the training level, the the the

59:47

operations level of what what we're trying to achieve as a business is not reduce our

59:47

headcount as free you guys up to do all the cool stuff we've talked about for the last

59:55

five years. Never done. You know, and that's that's that's what you have to get into with

59:55

this decision.

1:00:02

I can I can bore you with 15 stories along those lines, but I couldn't agree more and it

1:00:09

Vishal, you wanted to add something,

1:00:11

I think just to add to it, not in the saying it's meant to be.

1:00:14

Is that what they will allow us to do is reduce waste, which has no it has built up over

1:00:14

a period of time.

1:00:23

Then when you reduce that to, I would simply say capital.

1:00:27

Right. That is human capital cost.

1:00:30

And then you can redeploy that capital in a much more effectively.

1:00:34

And business would definitely find a way to redeploy that, and that redeployment means

1:00:34

the people, as you rightly said, our people what we did man with

1:00:44

ask, are they happy doing that and creating this to the business or are they better be

1:00:44

done by some kind of

1:00:53

automated process? And then people can then be free to use their cognitive skills and the relationship

1:00:55

skills that we going to be much more profitable.

1:01:03

ISLA hasn't really reached that level yet, right, to do something as part of the

1:01:03

business.

1:01:09

So we do seem to be using that capital to be deployed in a much better way.

1:01:14

And I agree with Don completely that it would not be good news in production of people,

1:01:14

but just to it, a much better place.

1:01:23

Well, the reality is there are some people that like doing mundane, repetitive tasks every

1:01:29

And I think with every every technological change of era, you have people that are

1:01:29

casualties of that.

1:01:37

So we shouldn't we shouldn't discount the fact that some people that do just box ticking

1:01:37

are at risk, just like their stock lone

1:01:47

trader who gets a call, makes a call and books a spread, that there is a limit as to how

1:01:47

much value that that has as a standalone product.

1:01:58

But, you know, the reality is it is about doing more interesting jobs I could like.

1:02:03

There are many jobs that I've seen and I couldn't imagine myself doing because they're

1:02:03

just too repetitive and I would rather do something else.

1:02:13

So so I think it's really very much a freeing application of technology.

1:02:19

I just want to keep looking at the time here.

1:02:24

I'm wondering if you have any sort of closing thoughts on on what the client priorities

1:02:24

are over the one, two, three years and maybe what the

1:02:35

what the risks are, what you think that they should be worried about and concentrating on

1:02:35

or investigating further, like just give some guidance to technology buyers and users

1:02:45

maybe.

1:02:46

Yeah, sure, I'll I'll sort of answer that, so I think the the sort of one, two and

1:02:56

three year cycles are probably a little bit short, so let's just call it one, three and

1:02:56

five.

1:03:03

So even though Virchow says technology evolves very quickly, which it does, you know, we

1:03:03

tend to look at things of like when there's like one year, three years, five years, and

1:03:13

working backwards five years before the end of the hour, doing just know what's coming

1:03:13

along, what, what what is happening in the innovation world that

1:03:23

will start streaming its way into banking and how do I start going into partnerships for

1:03:23

those?

1:03:28

So that's something that technology bio's should be thinking about, looking at the big

1:03:28

the big, big picture, looking at five years, what's coming along, whether it's

1:03:36

infrastructure, whether it's technology, whether it's different software techniques,

1:03:36

etc., because that will eventually drop into banking.

1:03:45

So getting themselves involved in not only doors allows for that ISLA adoption allows for

1:03:45

them to be at that, not the bleeding edge of the cutting edge, but just

1:03:55

being there. So I would I would say that's something for sure to look at probably three

1:03:55

years from now.

1:04:01

I would imagine that personally, I will be heavily embedded in banking and it will be

1:04:01

probably heavily embedded in front

1:04:11

to back Israel and or should be whether some organizations truly adopt or wait to see.

1:04:19

But things like eEye and digital digitalization and data use the data again, that is

1:04:19

probably a step too far, but

1:04:29

bringing the old together into one place, a data lake that can then be used as Crowley,

1:04:29

definitely the three year view that most organizations will be looking at the light of

1:04:39

be on the journey already, maybe a little bit further than the path some of them might

1:04:39

even think of finished.

1:04:43

But I'm sure there's still more to come. And others are still very early on at that adoption.

1:04:49

And I would say the one year cycle for everyone is really.

1:04:56

I think the the world is probably going through a bit of a recession.

1:05:02

Let's be honest. So you would imagine that there are still some challenges to come around

1:05:02

people around client service.

1:05:10

And I think organizations focus at the moment, certainly a lot of our customers.

1:05:15

How did they get new products out there as quickly as possible for bringing in that extra

1:05:15

revenue?

1:05:20

How do they service the clients well and look after them?

1:05:23

Well, because they don't want to lose clients. They want to gain them. And then how do they look after the staff?

1:05:30

How do they ensure that the staff are invigorated?

1:05:32

They are enjoying what they do. And technology plays a part not you may not think so, but it does come back to what you

1:05:35

said.

1:05:39

How can I take a boring, mundane job away from someone to bring in something that's

1:05:39

better for them to do?

1:05:45

How can I free up their capital? And I think those those definitely still because of the pandemic, because obviously it's

1:05:47

weaves in different countries.

1:05:56

But there's all these mental health issues everywhere as well.

1:05:58

So it's ensuring that you're not losing staff.

1:06:01

You know, could you imagine losing twenty five percent of the staff that you had when you

1:06:01

walked the HSBC?

1:06:06

Could you imagine the impact of your business that would have had huge so that could

1:06:06

happen over the next year because of the fact that your business is now

1:06:16

all over the world. So you've got offices in Asia, you've got offices in the Middle East, you've got offices

1:06:17

in Europe.

1:06:22

You just lose one individual from each of those places and then you've lost a big part of

1:06:22

your team.

1:06:27

So how do you and your banks really are focused on how did he use technology to help

1:06:27

people, whether it's collaboration, technology, whether it's technology and the jobs that

1:06:37

they're doing, whether it's systems, whether it's new, things are bringing in.

1:06:40

So that's definitely one of you personally for me is how do you ensure that we use the

1:06:40

technology that we have now to the best of our abilities, had to do little

1:06:50

things quickly to add value and unfortunately, the world we live in.

1:06:54

But I think it's something that we're all focused on.

1:06:59

And anything you want to that I would only go with to things which I believe they are the

1:07:08

very immediate and that is we started with the other one is a connected place.

1:07:15

And I think the technology, adoption, adoption of systems is very different in some of

1:07:15

the European, Asian Middle East.

1:07:25

And what this pandemic has really done is challenge all adoptions.

1:07:30

And for example, we know that some of our clients are very, very hot in Japan now with

1:07:30

this pandemic they cannot no longer

1:07:40

afford. So while their MIETEK was very different before, the pandemic has changed over a

1:07:40

period of time.

1:07:46

So we will see a lot more of digitization and automation focus coming in from some of

1:07:46

these places then maybe

1:07:57

and America, which is much more technology advanced and they're almost there.

1:08:02

I think that it's going to be one which will hopefully see in the next year all existing

1:08:02

kind of part of it.

1:08:10

The other thing, in my opinion, is going to be adult products, which is how do we create

1:08:10

products that satisfy the millennial?

1:08:19

And that would really kind of underpin the technology underpinning all of the creation of

1:08:19

new products.

1:08:26

I think the demand that they have is very, very different.

1:08:30

And as they are becoming the only thing that in the system, so be able to meet those

1:08:30

demand, which is Always-On system, without any or something that

1:08:40

you can get, immediate response would balance.

1:08:44

And all everybody, not just banks and everybody has to really look at their technology

1:08:44

very, very differently.

1:08:51

So that, in my opinion, is going to be three to five year.

1:08:54

And that's where I am really cloud.

1:08:58

All these things are going to be very, very integral part of their technology portfolio

1:08:58

if they're not offered.

1:09:05

Right, well, look, I think that said to me, that sounds like a much more fun place to work

1:09:15

place to to to finish. I probably won't be working.

1:09:18

I hope hopefully I will be working or hopefully I won't be.

1:09:21

I'm not sure which I feel better.

1:09:24

Thanks very much for that, guys. I think that was some really fascinating insights and I certainly learned a lot.

1:09:30

So appreciate your time and thanks very much.

1:09:34

Thanks for your time.