0:08

On the Pilot TV podcast this week,

0:10

we are back in EC1 for more

0:12

sloughhouse action for the third season of

0:14

Slow Horses on Apple TV+. We're

0:16

dealing with difficult neighbors in The Couple Next Door on

0:18

Channel 4 and dabbling

0:20

in a little doll-making and taxidermy

0:22

in The Doll Factory on Paramount+.

0:24

But that is not all, because

0:27

Jodie Whittaker joins us to talk

0:29

One Night, which we reviewed last

0:31

week, and our much-hyped Keanu Reeves

0:33

and Jensen Button interview finally arrives

0:35

this week. Let's hope they

0:37

do a better job of explaining Formula One than either

0:39

Boyd or I did on last week's show. Fair.

0:43

I'm James Dyer and welcome to the Pilot TV

0:45

podcast, your essential guide to every show that matters.

0:48

And a podcast that had to walk

0:50

into the sea this week, because on

0:52

last week's show, you will remember, we

0:55

spent a good quarter of an hour

0:57

discussing the most iconic voices in all

0:59

of television. And I completely failed to

1:01

mention Shoray Agdashloo, Christian Avasarala from The

1:04

Expanse, who has hands down the undisputed

1:06

best voice in all of entertainment.

1:08

I am so, so sorry

1:11

for letting you all down. If

1:13

you can find it in your hearts to

1:15

forgive this egregious oversight, we will try to

1:17

do better this week. And

1:20

helping me do that, are Boyd Hilton and

1:22

Keira Barrow. Thank you.

1:24

Egregious Agadashloo. Indeed. Incident.

1:27

The incident of the egregious Agadashloo. It

1:29

will henceforth just be called the Avasarala

1:31

incident. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

1:35

How are you both? You good? Other

1:37

than the fact that you were kept waiting for the better part

1:39

of 25 minutes for this podcast to start. 25 minutes? Yeah.

1:42

But I would say that Chris did give me a custard cream

1:44

as a way of apology, so I forgave him. Will this work

1:46

for me in future when I do things that upset you? No.

1:50

Chris Hewitt, we should say, or specify. Sorry. A

1:52

random person called Chris. Yes, no. The

1:54

Hewitt. The Hewitt was... Of Empire Podcast.

1:56

The Empire Podcast, which overran horrifically today.

1:59

He was wanging on. a lot. He was. Yeah. I

2:01

assume you were talking about because you know what God

2:03

is today. It's

2:05

Thursday. Beyond being Thursday.

2:08

A certain TV show started

2:10

today 60 years ago. Oh,

2:13

Archie. Yes. Archie comes to

2:15

ITVX today. Very exciting. Didn't

2:18

know it'd been going for that long, but

2:20

very excited Jason Isaacs as Cary Grant. 60

2:23

years ago. Is it Dr.

2:25

Houdai? It's Dr. Houdai. Today is the

2:27

day the farthest has landed. Today. Wow.

2:29

Is Dr. Houdai. There's a reason why

2:31

the first of the special

2:33

starts on Saturday because it's the closest possible

2:35

to the actual day of it. Surely the

2:38

closest possible is today. Well, yeah, but they're

2:40

not going to suddenly sit on a fucking

2:42

Thursday. This is the anniversary day. Today is

2:44

the anniversary day. So

2:47

this day 60 years ago was on Saturday.

2:49

Yes. So we should say to Boyd, happy

2:51

Houdai. Happy Houdai. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you

2:53

very much. I've posted a few. Boyd here,

2:56

the who? Me and Veritas. Yeah. Matt Smith.

3:00

Pennant. I couldn't find my tenant once. Do you know

3:02

what? My phone seems to have not copied over all

3:04

my photos. Yeah. So, cause I've got loads of tenant

3:07

ones. I've hosted loads of tenant events. So all the

3:09

pictures of you with David Tannen are with the mugger

3:11

who took your phone. No, no, no. They're on my

3:13

computer. I just don't cross them over here. The mugger.

3:15

He's looking through the real who's. Well, this guy's about

3:18

loads of people. But

3:22

yeah, I've met most of them.

3:24

Modern who's. Okay. In

3:26

answer to your question, I am good, but I'm

3:29

exhausted. You're good, but you're exhausted. Because you've been

3:31

celebrating North Houdai. I have. I've been on a bender,

3:34

a Zothu bender, whereby

3:36

I've been watching all the episodes and guessing shit

3:38

face. No. What

3:40

an idea. I have,

3:42

uh, I've done a lot of shoots this

3:45

week and interviews. And

3:47

so I'm very tired. Will I have heard of any

3:49

of the people? Absolutely not. Although,

3:53

you know, actually one, yeah, Daisy May Cooper.

3:55

Yes. I interviewed her. But

3:58

yeah, she was one of many interviews. And we didn't shoot

4:00

her, but we've done quite a lot of shoots this week. And

4:02

then I've been trying to watch all the TV. So

4:05

if I'm not very coherent this

4:08

week, I can only apologize. But I'm barely

4:10

awake. Enough. Yeah, that's my

4:12

disclaimer. OK, good, good. That's a

4:14

disclaimer. I'm going to ask you now

4:16

if you have time to watch

4:19

anything this week. The answer may well be no, but

4:21

I'm going to give you a little bit of time.

4:23

Because unusually, I'm going to go first. Oh, I'm going

4:25

to go first because what does this mean? Because we

4:28

have been harangued,

4:31

harassed, badgered, entreated,

4:33

cajoled by the listenership

4:35

of Pilot TV podcast. And they have

4:37

asked us to do one thing and one thing only over the

4:39

past few weeks. I'm doing the podcast entirely or

4:41

just get rid of me. Absolutely true. No,

4:44

they have been going on.

4:47

About Blue Eye Samurai.

4:49

Oh, yeah. The animation, the

4:52

animated show, which they believe

4:54

will cut through our egregious bias against

4:56

animation and get us in and not

4:58

just because it's violent, it's very

5:01

sexy to it's a red double egregious within

5:03

the first five minutes as well. Many,

5:06

many, many, many egregious things. Yeah,

5:08

it's got it's got all kinds of like naughty bits

5:10

in it. It's got violence and cutting the swords. It's

5:13

got kicking. It's got punching. It's got all the good

5:15

stuff that you want from a show. And

5:17

it's animated. And so I was like, you know,

5:20

we have a few people suggested. I was like, yeah, it's never

5:22

going to happen. Yeah, it's never going to happen. And then it

5:24

reached a tipping point. I said, fine, fine, fine. Leave me alone,

5:26

guys. I will watch Blue Eye Samurai. You know what I did?

5:28

You fell on your samurai sword and you watched it. I fell

5:30

on my samurai sword and I watched Blue Eye

5:32

Samurai. I watched the first episode of this, which

5:35

is over an hour long on Netflix.

5:38

And how pretty tell did you think? Well, OK, I'm glad

5:40

you asked. I got you interrupted. Thank

5:42

God you did. They're

5:44

not wrong. It's really fucking good. Like

5:47

it's really fucking good. And it bypasses

5:49

all of my animation issues because it

5:51

looks beautiful. The animation style is gorgeous.

5:55

It's very serious. It's very serious. There's

5:57

no silliness at all. That's right. It takes it down

5:59

very seriously. Which is lovely. It's

6:03

super violent and of course there's sexy times in there too, which is always

6:05

fun. Although it's quite weird

6:07

watching slightly pointy animation. You're like, this is

6:09

strange, I'm finding this a bit weird. But

6:11

it's really really good. So the idea is

6:13

it takes place in, I want to say

6:16

17th century Japan? Or 16th century? It

6:18

takes place in a century in Japan.

6:20

And it's a century where Japan has

6:22

closed their borders. So there

6:25

are no white people allowed in, it's only

6:27

the Japanese. And yet our

6:29

main character is a blue eyed samurai,

6:31

someone of mixed parentage. And it's very

6:33

very shameful. So that

6:35

samurai wears glasses, that tinted glasses to

6:37

hide the blue eyes. Kickass

6:41

swordsman makes mincemeat so absolutely everyone,

6:43

but he's on a revenge mission. And I'm not going

6:45

to say anything else about the plot. There's a

6:47

lot going on there. So there's a bit in the

6:49

past, there's a bit in the future. Not the future, not like the future future,

6:51

not the sci-fi future. A bit in the past, a bit in the present day,

6:53

but of course the present day in this is the past. You get the picture.

6:57

Anyway, it's really really good. And the

6:59

action is incredible. There is a fight

7:01

in a dojo in the first episode.

7:04

Where the samurai is essentially showing how little

7:06

these other samurai know. And it's

7:09

like trolling them, just like ducking and dodging, cutting

7:11

and whacking and all this stuff. It's very good.

7:14

Very very good. It's very very very

7:16

good. Well, who's got your seal of approval? Can

7:18

I interject to this point? Oh have you watched

7:20

it boy? I've watched it. See I told you

7:22

that I'd seen it earlier this week and boy

7:24

not to be one up. Not

7:26

to be one up. I was planning on, I

7:28

said last week that I was going to try and watch

7:30

it. And you succeeded. And I succeeded. So boy did you

7:32

tell me, do you agree? Did you love it? How did

7:35

you feel? Yeah,

7:37

it's beautiful. It is beautiful to look at

7:39

and it is really good. And it didn't

7:41

make me realise that I don't hate animation

7:44

at all. I can say what I do.

7:47

But you said you never said you did.

7:49

I don't think any of us said, well I didn't certainly. No,

7:51

but people think we do. Well no

7:53

but I think we, you and

7:55

I both struggle to love animated

7:57

shows. Right, that's a fair description.

8:00

But then there are things I've talked

8:02

before like films like the spider-verse films.

8:04

Yeah, they're fantastic. I agree. And

8:07

this is in that vein in the

8:09

sense of the beauty of the artwork

8:11

and the animation and the style and

8:13

the pace of it in a way.

8:15

Sophisticated storytelling. Sophisticated storytelling and character building

8:17

and all of that. It reminded me

8:19

of, I know what people are going

8:21

to say but I can say anyway,

8:23

it reminded me of the animated bit

8:25

and kill bill. Right,

8:27

which is stunning and beautiful and suddenly arrives and you're

8:29

like, oh my god, he's really quite intelligent, he's really

8:31

pushing the balance, he's got this fucking lavish animated bit.

8:35

Of course that is obviously influenced I know

8:37

by anime, proper anime, Japanese anime that went

8:39

before. But it did just have that vibe

8:41

to me of like, but it was all

8:43

about sword. So there is very

8:45

sword based. Very sword based. 17th

8:47

century by the way. I was right about that. It's

8:51

a really interesting premise that the main

8:53

characters, I'd like the enigmatic, because you

8:55

said the enigmatic, you know, kind of

8:57

lone person, all of that. It's just

9:00

brilliantly done. Absolutely brilliantly done. But it does

9:02

put in, it's kind of like I don't

9:04

dislike or have a problem with animation. If

9:07

it's brilliant, it's just brilliant. And

9:09

this is brilliant, basically. So

9:12

yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's

9:15

just fantastic. It's really good. RK

9:18

and I watched all the way through to the end. And frankly,

9:20

I think I will watch the rest of this as

9:22

well. I didn't finish, I can't even

9:24

have to say, but I might carry on watching this for

9:26

a control and find the time. It's really good. It is

9:28

really, I know we have a lot of stuff to watch,

9:30

but it is. Oh, absolutely. I really enjoyed it. So and

9:32

this is true, like, and this isn't always the case with

9:34

stuff I watch for this podcast. It did

9:36

not feel like a chore when I was watching. I was

9:39

really enjoying it. So that was great. But

9:41

that's not the only thing that I have watched. Because

9:43

in addition to that, I did

9:46

have a very Reacher weekend.

9:48

It can be said. Oh, here we

9:50

go. Can't talk about it, obviously. Sorry,

9:52

sorry, sorry. Wait a minute, though. I

9:54

happen to know because I was in the Reacher.

9:56

Yes, as well. That there was the wrong password

9:58

or wrong link or something. like that happened. There

10:02

were issues certainly with the Reacher screeners. And you,

10:04

but you messaged me about it saying you're doing

10:06

Reacher screeners work, I think on Friday, on Friday.

10:08

And I was thinking, oh my God, his weekend's

10:10

gonna be ruined because he's not gonna be able

10:12

to watch it. But you insisted they sort it

10:15

out for the weekend. No, I mean, I said

10:17

I had a Reacher weekend, if we're absolutely honest,

10:19

I had a very Reacher Monday and Tuesday, because

10:21

as you say, the links weren't working properly. I

10:23

was bereft. Liar, liar pants on

10:25

fire. But they did sort out my links. I

10:28

forensically caught you out. You did. You're actually right.

10:30

I lied, Boyd. I lied. It wasn't the weekend. It was

10:32

Monday and Tuesday. I don't know what they're gonna think on

10:34

this, on the subreddit, whether it's. Yeah, that's true. They'd be

10:37

like, here he is at it. He's lying again. It's true.

10:39

I did watch them, but I did not watch them technically

10:41

on the weekend. I watched them after the video. Have you

10:43

watched the whole thing?

10:46

I have. Ten episodes. Eight episodes of

10:48

Reacher. But

10:50

even that is not all I've watched because, because

10:52

for reasons passing understanding, I went back

10:55

and finished the Killing Kind. Do you

10:57

remember the Killing Kind? So the Killing Kind was that

10:59

show that was on Paramount Plus, but

11:01

you two said had big ITV energy and

11:04

you called me up when I quite liked

11:06

it and said, if this was an ITV

11:08

that you said you would be sneering at

11:10

it left, right and center. The one with

11:13

the red umbrella by the Thames on the

11:15

10th. Yeah, exactly. On the South Bank. Yeah,

11:17

I didn't hate it. I didn't love it.

11:19

Yeah. And I watched the rest of that.

11:21

And when you talked about

11:23

the big ITV energy, I do know what

11:25

you mean in that it is very, very,

11:27

very silly. And it gets if you thought

11:30

it was silly to be in with. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,

11:32

I've just got to separate myself

11:34

from this. Yeah. I

11:36

can't remember saying it was a big ITV energy. And if I

11:38

did, I wouldn't have said it in a really negative way.

11:40

No, no, no. What you were saying was he, yeah, you

11:42

were in his

11:45

world. Oh, yes. You were saying to me,

11:47

it's the kind of show. Yeah. They think

11:49

it was on ITV, he would preach. Yeah,

11:51

you know, so well, that is what you

11:53

were saying. But what I but I watched

11:55

the rest of it and you

11:57

thought it was silly. It goes I'm

12:00

a happily cuckoo bong to all the

12:02

exes. It's just absolutely wackadoodle doodle doodle.

12:04

I don't know if anyone was seeing

12:06

that. I like a wackadoodle. But I

12:08

did enjoy it. I enjoyed it for

12:10

all its wackiness. I think it's sick.

12:12

I want to say sick. But

12:15

yeah, I had a good

12:17

time. But it was very heavy. I'm so surprised

12:19

you went back to that. Yeah, you

12:21

know what? It was just one morning. I got

12:23

up as I tend to sometimes. I wake up quite early. And

12:25

I'm like, wow, ages before I got to go to work. And

12:27

I'd actually watched everything for that week. I

12:29

need to watch something. And so instead of watching one of

12:31

the many things I really should be watching, for

12:33

reasons I genuinely cannot pin down. I say I'm going

12:35

to watch Killing Kind. So I watch the rest of

12:37

that. So yeah.

12:40

Okay. And that is what I watch

12:42

this week. Well done. Okay.

12:45

Okay, so I watched the first episode of

12:47

I'm a Celebrity. So that's a show that's

12:49

based in the jungle. This is

12:52

the Farajah. Yeah,

12:54

yeah, yeah. But I just wanted to watch the first episode

12:56

because I like to see them, you know. If you

12:58

watch him eat kangaroo anus or whatever. Sadly, in

13:00

the first episode he didn't. He did look like

13:02

a like a grey worm, but he wasn't anything.

13:05

That's not unique to this though. No,

13:07

no, no, no. He is a

13:09

kangaroo anus. So

13:11

I don't know. That's the

13:13

worst. I'm sorry. Yeah, so I

13:15

just I wanted to see all the contestants come in and who

13:18

is there and everything. And like I just I always like to

13:20

watch the first episode. It's like Big Brother. I watched the first

13:22

episode to see them all go in. And

13:24

you never watch it again. I haven't watched

13:26

any more of the jungle just because this week's

13:28

been I've had a lot on. But you have,

13:30

haven't you? I have, yeah. I have

13:32

been watching it. Well, I enjoyed the lineup. So

13:34

yeah, it's it's a good point because obviously

13:36

a lot of people are boycotting it. So

13:38

I'm just not watching it. James

13:43

is boycotting it. I am. I realise

13:45

it. I'm a conscientious objector.

13:47

But there are conscientious objectors to

13:49

Nigel Farajah specifically. That's an interesting

13:51

way of pronouncing his name. Farah.

13:53

Is that how you say it?

13:55

Farah. Farah. Farah.

13:59

Farah. Some people do say it like that.

14:01

How does he say it? Why do we even care? I

14:03

say... Like a pharrage. Nigel

14:05

Farage. I would say pharrage. Yeah,

14:07

but you say pharrage. Oh God. You

14:10

make him sound a bit more exotic. Exotic.

14:13

As we all know, Kay is the pronunciation police

14:15

on this podcast. On my own name,

14:17

I get everyone else's name wrong. The point

14:19

is that I generally... I mean, it's

14:22

partly it's my job, obviously, to watch this stuff,

14:24

but I don't really... I find the point that

14:26

I'm going to not watch this thing kind of

14:28

thing a bit like Pointless. Pointless is

14:30

a completely different showboy than Matt Mayers. Thank you.

14:32

Which hasn't got any, um, cussing in the right

14:34

way, as I think it's always unaware. Um,

14:37

so I'm not boycotting it, as I understand why people

14:39

aren't making a point not to, because he is even

14:41

compared to Matt Hancock. He's further. I didn't watch last

14:43

year because of Hancock. I'm one of the people. Yeah,

14:46

yeah, yeah. You are one of those people, interesting. Is

14:48

that because you can't stand him? I can't stand the...

14:50

Right, it's not his politics necessarily, is it? Or is it? It

14:53

was COVID related. Oh yeah, of course. Because he's a

14:55

weasel-faced C-Unit. Surely. There you go.

14:58

Yeah. Can already hear

15:00

those tweets coming from... As is.

15:02

As is Nigel Farage. Farage. Farage.

15:05

Farage. The reason why

15:08

it's doing a really good series so far, and it's only

15:10

the first week as you say, pretty much, you know. So

15:12

we'll be on to the seven days

15:14

on this Sunday, recording this on Thursday.

15:16

So it's already pretty compelling because there's

15:18

proper conflict. Not

15:20

involving Nigel, as I'm calling him now, by his first

15:23

name. Nige. Your

15:25

mate Nige. With this influence

15:28

who's on there, the youngest one called

15:30

Nella, who had a big bust up

15:32

with Fred Siryux of... What about? Basically.

15:34

Did he not cook the kangaroo anus to a liking?

15:36

No, it was not good. Always over easy.

15:39

Yeah. Well done. Always well

15:41

done. Anus is

15:43

always better. It was... There's

15:46

your put-out plate. You cited it. I

15:49

didn't think you were going to take it that soon. No.

15:53

The argument was... He is, as you say, he is

15:55

preparing most of the food and that he was preparing

15:57

the food. He enjoys it. He's

15:59

a chef. as well. And he

16:01

was cooking and something over the fire, except to

16:03

having a chat. And he was just talking about

16:05

how young she is compared to how old he

16:08

is. And he just said, casually, I'm old enough

16:10

to be your father. And she

16:12

said, Oh, okay. And she kind of, you could tell

16:14

there was something a sconce about it. And then she

16:16

said, but you're not. And he went, yeah, I am.

16:18

Oh, I thought she was saying you're not my dad. No,

16:21

no, no. And then he just had a few more times. He said, I am

16:23

literally old enough to be your dad. And I said, you're that age, I'm this

16:25

age, blah, blah, blah. And then you know,

16:27

and what she what happened was her

16:30

father died. Her father's dead. And she

16:32

assumed somehow that he was having that

16:34

he was making a joke or making

16:37

some kind of reference to that and

16:39

thinking about that when you actually had

16:41

a tool. I think she might

16:43

have done briefly, but it

16:45

obviously was not in his mind whatsoever.

16:48

A reference to her actual late father. He was just you

16:50

saying the thing that people say all the time. Yeah, I'm

16:52

old enough to be the dad of everyone else in the

16:54

office. So you are in many ways a father to us

16:57

all. Right.

17:04

So I say all the time. She left it at that moment. She

17:07

then went to the to the diary

17:12

room or wherever the criminal diary room is, I

17:14

forgot what they call it and explained that she

17:16

was furious with him. And she then later on

17:18

that next morning, she was like, I'm not going

17:20

to talk to you. She said to me, you

17:22

start talking about being a father, you

17:25

know, being older than your father. And you know, my father,

17:27

my father's dead. And he was like, no, no, no, no,

17:29

I'm just using his phrase and he was trying to explain.

17:31

Then she said, okay,

17:35

she said they have a long discussion about it. And it

17:37

was like, you know, just don't, I

17:39

didn't mean it at all. And she said, okay, but I don't want to be

17:42

friends with you. And

17:44

what's interesting is now, I mean,

17:46

in doing so she's showing her immaturity, of

17:49

course, she completely unfair, immature. But

17:51

what's interesting is, is that obviously

17:53

she is fairly I mean, she

17:55

now she does completely live online

17:57

because she is an influencer. And

18:00

So in a way, she should know what she's

18:02

led herself over, but she has had a lot

18:04

of abuse, obviously, inevitably. What, just about that argument?

18:06

After this argument, yeah, because up until then she

18:08

was doing really well. People were saying she was

18:10

a favourite to win. She was very likeable and

18:12

fun and smart, really good. And

18:14

you were like, no wonder she's done so well as

18:16

an influencer online, because she's a really impressive figure actually.

18:18

But that was a complete disaster for her, this argument,

18:22

because it was so unreasonable on her part. And

18:24

because she's then said that thing, I don't want to be your friend.

18:27

So she's had a lot of abuse,

18:29

and that's bad, obviously. People are like, what

18:31

is ITV's? It's

18:33

a whole discussion about the nature of ITV. It could be

18:35

everything of it as well. Which I think is fascinating. Antonec

18:38

were like dealt with it quite well,

18:40

because obviously Antonec's links famously, oh, one

18:42

of the reasons why I'm so great

18:44

in the pantheon, I'm gonna

18:46

get James from the pantheon, because they're so

18:48

witty and clever. Well, after this incident was

18:50

shown, they were like, oh, that seems unfair.

18:53

They would dealt with it quite, kind of

18:55

not overly seriously, but certainly like, you know,

18:57

maturely, they weren't cracking jokes, and they were

18:59

like, you know, it seems a bit

19:01

much from her. So people are saying,

19:03

you know, she's now facing a non-slaw criticism, doing

19:06

something very questionable, but no one deserves that.

19:08

And yet on the other hand, she isn't influenced. So, you

19:11

know, if anyone should be able

19:13

to take an inverted commas, people attacking her

19:15

online is someone who lives online and... No,

19:17

that's us about... Right,

19:19

I'm just saying, these are the issues. I don't agree

19:21

with that. Of course, I don't agree. I've grown a

19:23

thick skin to it with the other. You just look

19:25

through the reaction. Yeah. And it is

19:28

fascinating. And it is, you know, what is

19:30

ITV's duty of care? You know, should they

19:32

be pulling around this situation, you know, at

19:34

time of... That seems extreme. Well, whatever. I

19:36

think it's kind of blown over, because I

19:38

saw, I didn't watch the entire episode last

19:40

night, it was Wednesday night, but I thought

19:42

she had some interaction with Fred. But

19:45

it's just, it's a fascinating example

19:47

in the first week of Amnesty Liberty of why

19:49

reality TV is both absolutely,

19:52

can be absolutely gripping and fascinating.

19:55

Interesting, intriguing, thought-provoking, provokes

19:57

many discussions, many issues.

20:00

but also the questionable nature of it.

20:02

That was very interesting, thank you. Okay. So

20:04

I watched the first episode of I'm a

20:07

celeb, and then I'm going to do a

20:09

James, and I was going to, you know,

20:11

I berated you earlier for talking about something

20:13

that you couldn't talk about, but I'm going

20:15

to very briefly do it and say I

20:18

watched Sky's New Rom-Com Smothered starring Jon Pointing

20:20

and Danielle Vitalis, and it's co-created by Monica

20:22

Hesse, and I really am

20:24

going to lobby for us to review it. I

20:26

will do it. Yeah. Cool. Because

20:29

I can't say anything now, but I will not say. Next

20:31

week. We'll review it. That's

20:34

me, Dan. It's on the list. I

20:37

don't know. Did either one of you put it in the calendar? I

20:39

think I did. Did you fuck? I give you a question. I'm

20:41

not allowed to input stuff on the calendar. I mean, that sounds

20:43

like a good restriction to put in place, but I don't believe it's

20:46

there at the moment. Yeah. Well, don't you stop

20:48

putting stuff in the calendar. Do you remember? No.

20:50

I'm sure I put it in the calendar. I meant

20:52

to put it in the calendar. No, she's almost as

20:54

good. Oh, I mean, you're right. Intent is 100% just

20:56

as good as actually doing it. What

21:01

else have you been watching, boy? Well,

21:03

oh my God, you

21:06

know, when you look at the calendar, something goes all to like February 2004.

21:09

It's not user friendly. It's in the calendar. Is

21:11

it? Oh, in your face, James.

21:14

In your face. Well, and I guess, I

21:16

guess the same stone. To be fair to

21:18

James, it could have been quite easily not in

21:20

the calendar. We never input it. The only other thing we've

21:22

been watching. I think there's something else I wanted

21:24

to say about that. Fucking. I'm sorry. Which is

21:26

the most interesting. You'll

21:29

be interested in this. Okay. It

21:31

does say something about the way

21:33

young people deal with in quotes,

21:35

offense and deal with stuff. They

21:38

consider instantly to be something

21:41

they should call them out about or they take offense

21:43

that or they think is wrong because, you know, I

21:46

don't think this would have happened to it. I

21:48

don't think a 45 year old person

21:51

would have had that reaction to Fred's serious. But interesting,

21:53

but you said earlier on that it was a mark

21:55

of her immaturity. So do you mean it was immaturity

21:57

or do you mean it was a generational? perception

22:00

thing. Yeah, I think it's like it's it's all

22:02

and it but you see it so often and

22:04

everyone this is gonna sound like me being ridiculous

22:06

old man. I admit it. But I think I

22:09

see everywhere in you know, just

22:11

that that Gen Z kind of and then I

22:13

know it's a cliche, but this was just a

22:15

really interesting example of it. It's a cultural moment

22:18

in some ways. I'm not gonna elevate it too

22:20

much. But it really is

22:22

for me. That's why I took from I

22:24

was not surprised that she's doing what she's

22:26

doing, because she is of that generation, which

22:28

which has the attitude something they consider instantly

22:31

offensive and will not Brooke any discussion or

22:34

any you know, nuance is just no, you said

22:36

this thing. I think you've offended me. That's it.

22:38

Fuck off. And it's

22:40

a really common attitude to have

22:42

going forward on the pod. Anytime I'm

22:44

offended, I'm gonna raise a flag. I'm

22:49

thinking a new segment Boyd's Gen Z corner.

22:52

Each week Boyd goes off on a different issue with

22:54

Gen Z. I think this could work out. Gen

22:57

Z. Please no,

22:59

I said Gen Z deliberately. Because I knew that if

23:01

I said Gen Z, K would fucking come for me.

23:04

One more thing I've been watching,

23:07

I wanted to say boat story.

23:09

Oh, yes. Oh my god. It's

23:11

fantastic. It's fantastic. It's really, really

23:14

good. The thing about it, the

23:16

best thing about it is is

23:18

that I'm thinking we got

23:20

a flavor from the first two episodes that went out last week.

23:22

I think I watched but then

23:25

watching the rest of it. It's the pace is

23:27

unbelievable. The amount of characters it

23:29

goes to. Like

23:31

no, people get killed off you like attachment

23:33

to that person. But such as the great

23:36

writing that Harry of the Williams

23:41

brothers Harry and Jack they will

23:43

they'll kind of sketch a character

23:45

and you're like, Oh, that's person.

23:48

The tailor. No,

23:50

in general, it's the tenor of the whole

23:52

thing. No, no, no. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

23:55

Played by Chucky Carrion. Oh, you haven't seen

23:57

anything yet. I'm

24:00

always scared of him. Yeah, oh my God,

24:02

he's awful. Oh my God. But

24:05

just the cast is phenomenal. Everyone

24:08

is brilliant and yeah, it's, I think it's one of

24:10

their, it could be their best thing. I

24:12

mean, the choice is coming up in the new year, the second series that I

24:15

really liked, the first series of. So

24:18

they're just on fire. The wee

24:20

photographers are on fire. Don't put them

24:22

out. Well,

24:26

on the... You're very

24:28

funny today, Wider. Not deliberately. Accidentally

24:32

fun. On

24:34

that note, I believe that's what

24:37

we've been watching. Let's have our

24:39

first guests and it's

24:41

only Keanu Reeves. Brawn, The

24:43

Impossible Formula One Story is available now

24:45

on Disney Plus. This is the four-part

24:48

documentary, which stars Keanu and it charts

24:50

the fortunes of Brawn GP and

24:53

their remarkable Formula One championship season.

24:56

None of those words mean anything

24:59

to me whatsoever, which

25:01

is why I didn't do this interview, but we

25:03

sent our resident F1 guru, Sophie

25:05

Butcher, to dig deep into the show with

25:08

Keanu and also with F1 legend, Jensen Button.

25:10

So here you go. Hi, Keanu.

25:12

Hi, Jensen. How are you doing?

25:14

Hi. Great. Thank

25:17

you. Brilliant. We're here to

25:19

talk about Brawn, The Impossible F1 Story,

25:21

your new documentary series. I'm

25:23

a huge F1 fan, so I absolutely loved

25:26

watching this and reliving the 2009 season, which

25:29

I remember very clearly watching back when I was younger.

25:32

And Keanu, you start the show by

25:34

saying that as far back as you can

25:37

remember, you've had a fascination with racing. If

25:40

I can ask you to go all the way

25:42

back to that moment, what is that first memory

25:44

that you've got of racing and a Formula One

25:46

in general? Can you remember what first drew

25:48

you into it? I

25:50

know. I must have had a lot

25:52

of interest as a kid because my mom took me

25:54

to a Formula One race when I was like eight

25:57

or nine years old at Moss Park. Sorry,

26:01

it was like, Jeev

26:03

Villeneuve was racing. I

26:06

had an F1, Formula One toy

26:09

car. Yeah, so I mean,

26:11

I loved the look of the cars. I

26:13

loved the racing of it, the

26:16

sound. You know, growing

26:18

up, I just used to love those, hearing

26:20

those cars. And

26:26

it was just, yeah, there was

26:28

something to it. Yeah,

26:31

absolutely. And Formula One,

26:33

I mean, it's a sport that's

26:35

constantly changing, rules, regulations, new drivers,

26:37

new teams. What

26:40

made it this year in particular that you wanted

26:42

to focus on for the show? I mean, those

26:44

who remember it will know how eventful it was.

26:46

But for people who don't or are less familiar,

26:48

why was it out of all the seasons you

26:50

could have documented? Why was it this one that

26:52

appealed to you so much? I mean,

26:55

for me, when it first came to me, a friend of mine,

26:57

we were talking F1 and he said, do you

26:59

know what happened in 2009? There was this

27:01

team that was bought for a pound and won

27:03

the championship. And I went, what? So

27:05

it started with that for me. It's as good

27:08

a hook as any to get you in and wonder

27:10

what happens next. Jensen,

27:12

for you, I mean, you're obviously such a huge

27:15

part of this story. At what point were you

27:17

made aware of the project and how did you

27:19

feel about it initially? I mean, it

27:21

was such a special moment in time for

27:24

me that, you

27:26

know, anybody wanting to make a documentary about

27:28

it was great. But

27:32

especially with Keanu hosting, that

27:36

was extra special. And

27:39

I think it was very important that

27:41

it wasn't someone from within F1 because

27:43

it would have been their story and

27:45

what they remembered. So

27:48

I think, yeah, it

27:50

comes across so well and it comes across as I

27:52

remember it. And I'm sure everyone

27:54

that was involved that season, it's as they

27:56

remember it. It hasn't been changed in any

27:58

way, shape or form. form in a positive

28:01

way, which is great.

28:04

But the amount of information that Keanu was able

28:06

to get out of people is a bit that

28:08

struck me. You

28:10

know, the information was able to get

28:12

out of Montezemolo, out of Eccleston, and

28:14

also all the other photo stuff because

28:16

I was so focused on what

28:19

I was doing that year. I didn't really know what

28:21

was going on with photos. So it was news to

28:23

me when I reached the documentary. You

28:26

learned something as well. I mean, Keanu, I was

28:28

going to ask you about that. We're so used

28:30

to seeing you on the screen at the forefront

28:32

of telling a story. But here you were in

28:35

a different role. You were the one asking the

28:37

questions. You were the one getting the story out

28:39

of people. What was it like to step into

28:41

that different role? Yeah, I love that

28:44

role. I actually really enjoy interviewing people

28:46

kind of asking about the why's, like

28:48

why and how did you feel and

28:51

what happened. You know, as early in

28:53

my career, I started as a host

28:55

for a show when I was

28:58

like 18. And

29:00

I'd made a documentary before this documentary

29:02

called Side by Side. So

29:06

I actually really enjoy interviewing

29:08

people. Yeah, and it was

29:10

great to see you in that as well

29:12

and striking up a connection with these people.

29:14

I mean, you have such incredible access to,

29:18

you know, drivers, engineers, all kinds

29:20

of people. I mean, what

29:22

kind of research did you do going into it? How did

29:25

you think this is how I'm going to approach this person?

29:27

This is how I'm going to approach this person? What did

29:29

that process look like for you? Yeah, I

29:31

mean, I had a wonderful show running partner,

29:34

Simon Hamerson, who I worked with. And

29:37

then when we got connected with Disney

29:39

and Disney Plus, you know, they invited

29:41

Daryl Goodrich to join us as a

29:43

director. So we had this really great

29:45

team and Neil Duncanson as a producer

29:48

at North Lawn. So we had

29:50

a great team. And I

29:53

started reading. I read Jensen I

29:55

read your book. Yeah,

29:58

I read Ross's book. I read Nick

30:00

Fry's book. And

30:03

we had wonderful cooperation with Formula

30:05

One, so the archive materials, watching

30:10

YouTube, looking at some of the

30:12

press conferences. The

30:15

editorial team was selecting everything that they

30:17

could find on the internet, so I

30:19

was watching interviews, different stages of the

30:21

season. And

30:24

then just really, there was a rules change,

30:26

so it was like learning about talking

30:29

to aerodynamicists, and then

30:31

really talking to

30:33

Jensen's race engineer, Andrew

30:37

Shovland, Jacques Cleare for Ruben. So

30:39

I just started to research everybody,

30:41

read their books, and

30:44

start from there. Yeah. You're

30:46

also an executive producer on the show

30:48

as well. How did your role there

30:51

overlap with hosting, do you think? And what sort

30:53

of input did you have into the overall narrative

30:56

structure of the show? Did you enjoy being

30:59

involved on that level? Yeah, no,

31:01

I love collaborating. And I had a

31:03

really wonderful collaborator and director,

31:05

showrunner and Simon Hamerson. And he really

31:07

started to put the script of the

31:09

story together. And we would just talk

31:12

and talk the story through, okay, chapter

31:14

one, how do we start? Okay, now

31:16

there's chapter, we really broke it down

31:18

like a movie. Where's the crisis? Where's

31:20

the bottom? How's it rising? What's going

31:22

on the rivalry? Well, Jensen's winning, but

31:24

now, oh no, it's Silverstone, and he

31:26

didn't win. Oh my God, is that

31:28

rear at all turn? Is this the

31:30

end of times? Talking

31:33

to Ross Braun and Nick Fry,

31:35

really having that access to speak

31:37

with everyone and everyone's generosity. Really,

31:42

we couldn't tell the story without Jensen,

31:44

your generosity, everyone's generosity.

31:47

So it was really extraordinary to interview

31:49

and get to learn more about the

31:52

story. Yeah, absolutely. And it's

31:54

one thing to kind of talk to everyone and

31:56

get to know this story from the outside. But

31:58

Jensen, you obviously lived through it. this incredible

32:00

year, this incredible year in your career, you were

32:02

right in the middle of it all. I mean,

32:04

14 years on, which is kind

32:06

of wild to think that it's been that

32:09

long, but what was it like to revisit

32:11

it in such detail? What was that kind

32:13

of experience like for you on a personal

32:15

level just to go back to this time?

32:18

You're right, 14 years on, time has

32:20

flown by and

32:22

things get in the way of remembering

32:25

the past, you don't stand still anymore. So

32:28

to actually stop, take a moment and

32:31

relive that year, it brought

32:34

everything back. It was like I was living in

32:36

the moment. And the first time I sat on

32:38

the couch with Keanu, the

32:40

first few questions already, it was like, oh,

32:42

you know, it's bringing it all back in

32:44

a very positive way. So

32:47

no, it's been lovely, really

32:49

great experience. And I really, I'm

32:51

so happy that people that

32:53

have gone into Formula One since 2009 are going to

32:55

get to see something that's never

32:58

going to happen again. This story of

33:00

a team that was bought for £1 and

33:02

goes on to fight against the giants of

33:04

the sport and wins. Also, I

33:06

have two kids, so it's lovely that

33:08

they are going to get to watch

33:10

this in the future and see what

33:13

their daddy used to do. Yeah,

33:16

document it for the next generation. And

33:18

I'm wondering, I mean, were there any

33:20

parts of it that you found yourself

33:23

feeling differently about now, looking back at it with

33:25

all this hindsight and sort of out from the

33:28

middle of it? Was there anything that you kind

33:30

of, you reflected

33:32

on it, it helped you process it in a different

33:34

way? No,

33:37

I just do hate episode three.

33:39

Yeah, okay.

33:42

I always sat at home with my wife watching

33:44

it and I was like, oh, this is so

33:46

difficult to watch because I was

33:48

in a bad place. But she's

33:51

like, but maybe episode four

33:53

wouldn't have happened without episode three.

33:56

So, and she's totally right, you know. And I

33:58

look back. and I

34:00

wouldn't change it because it makes for such

34:02

an incredible story. They just put me through

34:04

hell at that time, you know, that point

34:07

in the season. But looking

34:09

back, it's the perfect story. Yeah,

34:12

it really is. I mean, Keanu,

34:14

you were talking about sort of picking out the

34:16

drama, picking out the highs and lows, but it's

34:18

all there to work from, isn't it? Which is

34:20

what makes it such an incredible story to look

34:23

at. To pick out a key moment, I

34:25

mean, Jensen, that first race win in Melbourne

34:27

at the start of the season was so

34:29

significant in announcing bronze arrival as a team.

34:31

Can you just kind of talk us through

34:33

what was running through your head when you

34:35

were standing on that first podium? And did

34:37

you ever imagine at that point that you

34:39

could then take it all the way to

34:41

become world champion? I wasn't

34:43

thinking about tomorrow at that moment.

34:46

It was just soaking it all

34:48

in. You know, sat, stood there with

34:50

my mate, Rubens Barrichello, one

34:52

of my main competitors. But in that

34:54

moment, and Ross Braun's

34:56

emotion and the whole team, what they'd all

34:58

been through and to get

35:00

pole position and to win that first race

35:03

in Australia, a circuit I loved, was

35:07

very special. And, you know,

35:09

I'm going to big up the documentary

35:11

because it's a great season. But

35:14

if you just played the season out, oh,

35:16

it wouldn't be as exciting as it

35:19

is in the documentary because the

35:21

way that it's been shot with

35:24

interviewing all the people involved and

35:27

getting their emotion of the

35:29

moment at that moment in time, it

35:31

really does make it. So hats

35:33

off to Keanu and the whole team. It's very

35:36

special. Keanu, were you watching that

35:39

season at that time? Were you watching it play

35:41

out in real time? Can you remember? I didn't

35:44

know. No. Too busy? There's too much going

35:46

on. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I might have

35:48

watched a race here or there, but I

35:51

wasn't following formula one like that. That season,

35:53

I didn't have a recollection of it. No,

35:56

no. I mean, it's it's it's

35:58

at that time I remember watching it with my. I

36:00

died every week and so, but it was,

36:02

there was stuff that I'd forgotten. I kind

36:04

of didn't even put together that big crash

36:06

with Massa was during that season. Like it

36:09

was just adding another layer to everything. So

36:11

it was incredible to go back and look

36:13

at it. I mean, so much of this,

36:15

the story in the show centers around the

36:18

man himself, Ross Brawn, he's kind of where

36:20

it starts. So a lot of talk about

36:22

how he's perceived versus this kind of silent

36:24

assassin persona that's underneath it all. I mean,

36:26

Keanu, having spoken to him and Jensen having

36:29

worked with him. How do you

36:31

view him and his role in Brawn's success

36:33

now, especially after having made

36:35

the documentary? I don't

36:37

think we're sitting here today without Ross Brawn.

36:41

I mean, right, Jensen? Yep. He's

36:43

the man that made it happen.

36:45

What is said in the documentary

36:48

by Christian Horner is true

36:50

in some ways. It

36:53

is true in some ways. He's a fighter.

36:55

He will do anything to win Ross.

36:58

And I love that about him.

37:01

But having him on your side

37:03

is a must, you know, and for me,

37:07

I felt really comfortable in the team

37:09

because of Ross. He makes

37:11

you feel comfortable and necessary

37:14

and he makes everyone

37:17

feel they mean something. And

37:19

that's so important when you have 700 people

37:22

that you need to keep positive. So

37:25

his leadership is second to none. And

37:27

there are so many huge movements in the

37:29

sport during that year, the innovation

37:31

around the regulations, the double diffuser

37:33

and the photo and, you know,

37:36

Brawn were the first team to win the championship

37:38

in their debut year. What do you think of

37:40

both of you? What do you think the lasting

37:42

impact from that season in particular has been on

37:45

the sport going forward from that? Mercedes

37:49

Benz. Very

37:51

good. The reign of Mercedes. Yeah,

37:53

absolutely right. Which, you know, they're such

37:55

a formidable team now. And

37:58

you mentioned a little bit about people coming

38:00

to the sport after 2009 and

38:03

then getting to hear about that

38:05

story. I mean, in the past... Over 100

38:07

people still work at Brackley for Mercedes Benz

38:09

who worked with Braun in 2008.

38:11

Yes. In a same place. Yes.

38:14

I just want to say that. But anyway... Absolutely.

38:16

It's a little bit more now. It's grown quite a

38:18

bit. It's grown quite a bit. It's grown a

38:20

little bit. It's grown a little bit. It's got more than

38:23

a pound now. But

38:25

such a rich history now at Brackley.

38:28

I mean, it must have been so

38:30

great to be there. And you got

38:32

to visit other places, Wolkiana, you're in

38:34

Brazil with Rubens and everything. Was

38:36

it great to actually be in the places where this

38:38

stuff happened? Yeah, it was really

38:41

special to be in Silverstone with

38:43

Jensen, back in the kit with

38:45

the car, Rubens

38:50

with the car. It was just... Oh

38:53

no, we didn't have a car there. No. It

38:56

was really cool to be on the track

38:59

with Jensen and Rubens and just

39:01

kind of to be in the place, home

39:04

tracks. It means

39:06

it's different, right? Home

39:08

tracks different. A lot of Rubens is

39:10

showing me like, I've come down the

39:13

turn. My grandmother lived right there. My

39:15

father brought stone to the track. I

39:17

was able to race here because my father knew the

39:20

people on the track. And

39:23

then anyway, so Jensen's bike home race.

39:26

My favourite part, obviously the story is the

39:28

story, but my favourite part was when Cairnio

39:30

actually got into the car. And

39:34

that was the race of the car as well. Cairnio got

39:36

in the car. And initially he didn't want to get in.

39:38

He's like, no, no, I can't get into your car. And

39:41

then we persuaded him finally. And then we couldn't get

39:43

him out. He's like, oh, this is the man. It

39:46

was great to see that emotion. And

39:49

he got to experience what we experienced as

39:51

racing drivers for one moment. You know, Jensen

39:53

sending in the car, when I did that,

39:55

I really started to feel like I

39:58

could start to feel like I could. to understand

40:00

when you would speak about touch and feel

40:02

and people would describe how you drove the

40:04

car, how you would

40:06

set up turns and go through corners in

40:09

your driving style. I

40:11

felt how sitting where you were in

40:13

the car, how you

40:15

could feel your contact. The

40:18

walls are so thin. The tires are right

40:20

there. I could see how you could feel

40:23

everything coming up through the seat and how

40:25

you could sit in the front. I

40:28

had a sense of like, oh yeah, look

40:31

at all he could feel when he's driving.

40:33

Anyway, it's

40:35

so close contact to everything.

40:39

There's no give in anything. No

40:42

give, but also you're right there. It's

40:45

like having it on your skin. You're just

40:47

like, I feel everything. Have

40:49

fun. Exactly. Do

40:52

you have a fancy? You see yourself having a gokyani, getting

40:54

out there on the track for real. I

40:57

used to have this vision, like it'd be so fun to

40:59

jump into a Formula One car

41:01

and take a lap. No

41:04

one, like no. You wouldn't even be able to

41:06

get the car out. I mean, it was a

41:08

double clutch. I wouldn't

41:10

even be able to. The first turn, I'd be

41:12

like, number one, I'd be braking a country mile

41:15

too soon. I wouldn't be able to bring the

41:17

tires up to temperature. I'd spin

41:19

off the track on the first, maybe the second turn,

41:21

probably make it through the first. I'd

41:24

be like, OK, I got this. Try

41:29

to find reverse. They'd have to bring the truck

41:31

out. Like, you know. It's been a

41:33

whole thing. He's made it through his mind already,

41:35

hasn't he? He was dreaming

41:37

about it. The biggest issue with that one car is, yeah,

41:39

you've got to get the tires up to temperature, which isn't

41:41

easy. So you have to drive fast. But you

41:44

can't drive fast because you don't have the

41:46

confidence to drive fast. And then it just

41:48

gets worse and worse. And you've got 1,000

41:50

horsepower and no traction

41:52

control. No one that drives

41:55

with a road car doesn't have

41:57

traction control these days. So, yeah.

42:00

It's an experience. I would love to see it. No.

42:03

Maybe one day. Maybe one day. I

42:05

think that's all the time I've got. But Keanu

42:07

and Jensen, thank you so much. You're both real

42:09

heroes of mine. It was an on-speech, you guys.

42:11

And I loved the series. I think everyone is

42:13

going to do as well. So thank you guys.

42:15

Thank you so much. That's Keanu Reeves and

42:17

Jensen Button. And time now for

42:20

what would be the listener question if I had

42:22

shared a listener question with you. Oh, yes. So

42:24

I didn't know. No. But one of the reasons

42:26

I didn't is because it occurred to me that

42:28

obviously the pilot TV post bag lives on pilot

42:30

plus. But it's overflowing. It

42:33

is overflowing. So like like a water

42:35

company releasing sewage into the rivers, we

42:38

need to vent some of these messages because

42:40

the triage system has quite literally turned to

42:43

shit. Right. Let the shit spill. Let the

42:45

shit spill. We need to triage this shit. So we

42:47

need to deal with some of the postbag questions on the

42:49

regular podcast. It has to be done. So

42:53

let's get into it. I have a message here

42:55

and it's relevant to what we've just done. This comes

42:57

from Ben and Ben says, hello. Apologies

42:59

in advance to Boyd. Always a good start

43:02

to him. That's nice. As much as I

43:04

normally love listening to him, it was rather

43:06

painful listening to his F1 summary on the

43:08

podcast last week. I implore

43:10

you again to give the F1 documentary

43:12

drive to survive a chance. Maybe

43:15

if you ever do some sort of cultural

43:17

sport related exchange, you did actually

43:19

read my suggestion out for it a year ago.

43:21

Though, admittedly, I didn't really hold out much hope

43:23

that you would give it a try. F1 Gribes

43:26

Aside. Love you guys. P.S.,

43:28

the broad documentary with Keanu really was

43:30

fantastic. I think I've

43:32

watched some of Gribes to Survive. Did

43:34

you cut out a bit from that message where he said that obviously at least

43:36

you know more about it than James does? I

43:39

believe that was implied if not explicit. I wouldn't

43:41

be surprised. No,

43:44

you definitely know more about F1 than I do in

43:46

that I genuinely only I only have a vague understanding

43:48

that involves cars. Okay,

43:50

okay, this is good. This is good, right? What

43:52

else have we got? Oh,

43:54

while you're looking up some more postbag stuff,

43:57

a couple of people mentioned that we haven't given

43:59

an update. on the Fiji charts in a while.

44:02

That's true. So I looked

44:04

it up earlier and I think, I'm

44:06

pretty positive we are number four in the chart

44:08

guys. So you know we've got an art. Number

44:11

four in Fiji's Entertainment Chart. Yeah but before,

44:13

last time I... You

44:15

sure? Yeah well now you made me doubt, I'm going to look it up again. But

44:17

yeah because last time we looked it up we dropped

44:20

out the charts altogether so I'm saying that's a win.

44:22

That is a win. Yeah. I will take fourth

44:24

place in Fiji's Entertainment Charts 100%. Yes.

44:27

What's number one? I

44:29

don't have that information available to me but

44:33

crucially we are creeping up the charts so that's

44:35

good news all round. That's the main thing. Okay

44:38

I have a question here from

44:40

Dan Barrow and Dan says,

44:42

well and also this may entirely

44:44

derail my post bag

44:46

sewage overflow session that I've just introduced because this might be

44:48

one that goes on for a while and then it will

44:50

be the only one we have time for. But let's see

44:52

how it goes. Dan says, TV

44:54

adjacent to Pod Question bear with, I

44:57

have occasional discussions with my partner when she

44:59

wants to watch something hideous like I'm a

45:02

celeb. I know how you feel Dan. I

45:04

know how I feel. And I have

45:07

little choice if I wanted to spend time

45:09

together. It comes down to advertising.

45:11

I have an absolute aversion to

45:13

having brightly colored sales messages repeatedly

45:15

slammed at me at high volume.

45:18

This hatred quadruples at Christmas which of

45:21

course starts in October. I will do

45:23

anything to avoid adverts mostly through BBC

45:25

or streaming subscriptions. When unavoidable I will

45:27

mute them or leave the room or

45:30

just moan. Hence the discussions. So this

45:32

got me thinking seeing as watching television

45:34

is your central professional requirement what are

45:37

your feelings towards adverts? Do you tolerate,

45:39

avoid or maybe even enjoy them?

45:42

Corporate bullshit or valid art form? I

45:44

do not watch them at all. Well he

45:47

says this might explain my aversion to

45:49

ITV programming so. And also

45:51

he says crucially I subscribe to

45:53

Pilot Plus. A weekly joy not least because

45:55

no ad. You are

45:57

telling me. Could you do an ad break? on

46:00

ITV. Say you are watching I'm a celeb, do you

46:03

refuse to watch any of those ads? Well,

46:05

so why sometimes I would time it so that

46:07

I watch it a bit, like I'll record it,

46:09

right? And then I can forward through the ads.

46:13

Every show that's online, then. Oh,

46:15

yeah, because I went, yeah, yeah. And

46:17

I have to say the first episode

46:19

of I'm a celeb went on for

46:21

like an hour and 45 with something ridiculous. And

46:24

the ads were so prolific. I couldn't

46:26

bear it. I was going to make ITVs ad

46:29

money for like a year. Oh my God. But everyone

46:31

was complaining about it. I was talking to the next day like,

46:33

oh, they're just filming the ads. Even

46:35

worse though than broadcast. Have you noticed that it's like

46:37

if you go onto ITVX, like they have like two

46:39

adverts on rotations, you see the same ones again and

46:42

again and again and again and again until you go

46:44

slowly mad. Yeah, that's so that you sign up to

46:46

the ad free premium. Yeah, I call that. But I'm

46:48

not going to do that. As

46:51

a proud contributor to Channel 5's greatest

46:53

TV ads ever. Oh my God. Yes,

46:58

I did earlier this year and I'm sure they're repeated at Christmas

47:00

as well. I like ads.

47:02

I'm fascinated by ads. I don't bother

47:04

me at all. Wow. I certainly wouldn't never

47:06

go to the problem of bother of what you

47:09

do. Okay, I always forward through the ad. I

47:11

don't give a shit. I mean, I'm not saying

47:13

I sit down and go, oh, great ads. I'm

47:15

just I don't really care. But what's interesting is,

47:17

what's interesting to me, maybe is I do watch

47:20

ads and happy to watch them and actually actively

47:22

like somehow like the greatest ads ever that I

47:24

was talking head in the ads in that are

47:26

brilliant. They just show you what is the greatest

47:28

ad ever. Well, I think it was in the

47:30

end. It was the Guinness ad with all the

47:33

horses. Yeah, with the left field song. Yeah,

47:35

yeah, yeah. Which is the word bam, bam, bam,

47:37

bam, bam. Exactly. But that is the work of

47:39

art, right? It's like anything. It's like people who

47:41

dismiss, I don't know, TV critics, you know, yeah,

47:45

you're all twat. You make sure you know that cliche

47:47

that you should be making TV, not writing about it.

47:49

Yeah. You can't critique something unless you can do it.

47:51

I mean, the same with football. They do about football journalists

47:54

as well. It's like, no, if you're good at something, if

47:56

the bet you're, you know, if you're, it's a real skill

47:58

to be a good TV or film. It's

48:00

a skill to be a good, I mean, you may not

48:02

know that in listening to this podcast, but it is the

48:04

guide. And it's a skill to make ads. But all the

48:06

ads are all watching, boys. That's not to say

48:08

they're all the best ads. No, not all of them, of course not.

48:10

I'm not a moron. But among them,

48:12

I would say, well, maybe I am. I'll leave

48:14

that to you to decide. But what I'm saying

48:17

is, you know, you're going to miss out on

48:19

the good ones if you completely

48:21

decide you're never going to watch them. I know, but can I say, when you've

48:23

got such limited time on your hands, I'd

48:26

rather watch the actual show than spend

48:28

like 30 minutes or so. Hopefully

48:31

I'll get one nugget of gold. That's interesting. But

48:33

generally, it does not bother me at all. And

48:35

as a sad word, but what I've just realised,

48:38

I haven't seen this used John Lewis ad at

48:40

all, which is perhaps we're already practically in the

48:42

last week of November. And that's unusual.

48:44

I've heard a lot about it. It's

48:46

almost like they're not showing it that often yet, because I didn't see

48:48

it last night. I've pretty much watched an old episode of Armors Left

48:50

to Get Me Out of It. I think it's quite sad

48:52

and depressing by all accounts. I

48:54

thought it features the plant from the

48:57

little shop of horrors, I think.

49:00

Audrey, you probably like it. Anyway,

49:03

there are brilliant ads. They're terrible ads. I'd not bother.

49:05

But brilliant ads are brilliant. I'm 100% Team K on

49:08

this. I'm

49:10

going to surprise me. Adverts are

49:12

like kryptonite to me. To

49:16

the point where I cannot,

49:18

will not, shall not ever

49:21

sit through them. To the point where if adverts come

49:23

on and I haven't been recorded, I will just get

49:25

up and leave the room. And if I want a

49:27

kryptonite, great. If I don't, I'll fucking go and make

49:29

one anyway, because I absolutely cannot deal with the noise,

49:33

the irritation, the sounds. I find

49:35

them so aggravating. So I can't deal with them.

49:37

But it's not normally an issue nowadays, because since

49:39

almost everything we watch is streaming, I

49:42

don't really encounter that. I don't know why you

49:44

don't like IDV. That's why I don't like IDV.

49:46

But also, even though the few things we don't

49:48

watch that are streaming, inevitably, we get sent screen

49:50

of links which don't have ads. So I rarely

49:52

encounter them. But what's interesting about that is, and

49:54

just, you know, even though my hatred of ads

49:56

is just kind of fucking visceral at this point.

49:59

If you don't watch. ads, I do feel that

50:01

there is a strand of popular culture

50:03

that you separate yourself from. And I

50:06

think ads enter the national

50:08

consciousness on a very sort of

50:10

like basic level. Like, so

50:12

you know, you go back to the 90s and

50:14

the 80s and I think even now, like we

50:16

will remember a lot of the, you know, the

50:18

little, the tree bore mints jingle or, you know,

50:20

like the chew it monster or, you know, remember

50:22

the Scotts. Exactly. And the,

50:24

you know, remember the skeleton who did

50:27

the Scotch VHS tapes, you know, all

50:29

of these things, the mission impossible squirrels

50:31

of Adrian's car in black label, you know,

50:33

all of this stuff was part of the

50:35

cultural conversation. It has a part of the

50:37

DNA of the nation. So to an extent

50:39

you are by not watching that you are

50:41

missing out on that conversation. Thank you. So

50:43

there is value to it a hundred percent,

50:46

but I do fucking hate it. But then

50:48

equally I will say in the same breath

50:50

that there's now so much cultural conversation because

50:52

there's so much TV and whatnot that you

50:54

couldn't really tap into all of it anyway.

50:56

So does it really matter? But, but

50:59

yeah, I, yeah, I see what you're saying.

51:01

And I do think, you know, as that's not

51:03

all like, like, let's, let's be honest, there has

51:06

never been a good Domino's pizza ad. It is

51:08

not high art. It is not great. However, I

51:10

don't know why I have just single dominoes.

51:13

You get free dominoes. Do you know what? They've never sent

51:15

me. I'll take it back if you send me pizza. But,

51:18

but you know, but you know, I mean, so there

51:20

are certain things I think we're never going to see

51:23

artistic ads for, which is not really going to happen.

51:25

What's interesting is, well, this is our discussion now, but

51:27

what's interesting is sometimes a brand will do a sudden

51:30

kind of attempt to do a creative, like a

51:32

sudden left turn. Yeah. You know, exactly. We're a

51:34

hundred, a hundred percent going to get emails. I

51:36

think you're fine. The dominoes, David Lynch, David Lynch

51:38

directed a Domino's pizza ad in black and white.

51:41

I'm sorry that you mentioned that because you know,

51:43

there was a Martin Scorsese ad at the moment

51:45

for a perfume featuring, um, Timothy Shannell. Are you

51:47

aware of it? Oh, is it the Chanel one?

51:49

Is it three and a half hours long? As

51:52

far as I know, no, it's,

51:54

it's, it's barely 15 seconds. I don't even

51:56

know if there's a full 30 second version.

51:58

It's really. And

52:00

it's literally, and I kid you not, and

52:02

I saw someone tweeting saying, Timothy Shannon May

52:04

tweeted about the family this time. And I

52:06

saw someone else tweeting saying, yes, Martin Scorsese

52:08

directed it. I haven't double checked these facts,

52:10

but I do believe that this act, and

52:14

Timothy Shannon May is definitely in it, because his face, it's

52:16

literally a slow pan across his face in

52:18

a blue, in blue lighting. And that's

52:20

it. That is it. What

52:22

a lovely face it is. What a lovely

52:24

face. It's a great pan. It's a very

52:26

well timed slow pan. But I believe that

52:28

that is what Martin Scorsese has done. Amazing.

52:30

Just think how much money he got for

52:32

that. Maybe he's done another one, a longer,

52:34

bigger one that will be unveiled. I

52:36

don't know. But that kind of thing fascinates me. Would

52:39

directors, big directors, make ads all the time? Mike

52:41

Lee does them. What's

52:44

his name? The left big firebrand guy does them.

52:46

If money's narrowed down, Ken Loach. Ken Loach. Right.

52:50

It's fascinating, you know, and

52:52

David Lynch has done them. It's, you know, some absolute... And

52:54

there are a lot of great ads out there. And I

52:57

love those kind of ads. And if all ads were like

52:59

that, I'd happily sit through them. But most of them aren't.

53:01

Sure. But it's like if all ads were like that, then

53:03

it would be ridiculous as well. No, but it would make

53:05

it pointless. I would. I got tuned in for the ads.

53:08

You know what I mean? But it's the really kind of...

53:10

On a peak TV, you'd have peak ads. Yeah. Well, that's

53:12

it. We want peak advertising. If you want a good time,

53:14

watch the best ads ever made. If you want a good

53:16

time, guys. Are you getting money each time they say this?

53:18

No, no, no, no. It was one of the best points

53:21

residuals. It's one of the best. It's one of the

53:23

best talking ads I've ever done. Because honestly, it reminds

53:25

you of how brilliant... It's because it is like that

53:27

world of only good ads. They're all really good and

53:29

interesting. That Guinness one, I do still remember. They're brilliant.

53:32

Leonard Rosser to Joan Collins ones for Jim

53:34

Zarnold, which I loved when I was a

53:37

kid. They are still funnier than anything else

53:39

on TV now. Do you remember there was

53:41

a period in the 90s where Levi ads

53:44

used to spin off... Yes. Like big, like

53:46

singles. Like massive... Like it became a massive

53:48

thing. Like, remember Flat Eric. Yeah. Remember Flat

53:50

B? Like that was saying, a Babylon zoom.

53:53

Yeah. Was that Levi's? I

53:55

think so. Yeah, completely. They have massive impacts

53:57

on popular culture. Anyway. Can I just say...

54:00

we wrap this up that I was wrong about the

54:02

John Lewis ad because that was about,

54:04

you know, you said it's with that plant. Yeah.

54:06

I don't know what I'm thinking of, but there's

54:08

one that's about dementia and an

54:10

old man he has to go to a home

54:14

and he thinks his dog is, yeah. And

54:17

that's not the John Lewis ad about him? No,

54:19

it's not. So I just want to say apologies.

54:21

Apologies for John Lewis from Kevin. There we go.

54:23

Please do still send me your vouchers. Thanks. Right.

54:28

As predicted, the sewage effluent offshoot

54:30

has been curtailed by that question. So

54:32

we'll have to maybe do it

54:34

another time. But that

54:36

was the post bag. If you want your question

54:38

answered, do send them to me directly on Instagram

54:40

via DM at James C Dyer or to app

54:42

pilot TV pod on Twitter or Instagram. Time

54:45

now for the news. What

54:47

news do you have for me? Wonderful, wonderful

54:49

people. No news for me. No

54:52

news for me. Oh my God. Kay. Kind of just

54:54

literally going first of all, I think there's another

54:56

ad for the Chanel, I was just

54:58

looking out, Timothee Chalamet. He must have just said

55:00

it will be more complicated, complex, not good than

55:02

the one I've described. So just that's my news.

55:05

Just to correct what I was just saying. Your Chanel news.

55:07

Still fun to see that Chanel. Do you own any Chanel?

55:11

There's got to be a Supreme Chanel crossover.

55:13

No, there was a Supreme Comte d'Garcin fragrance

55:15

crossover that I did, that I have got.

55:17

Still got. Okay. I mean, that's not Chanel

55:19

though. I've got a Chanel blue thing. Blur.

55:21

I think Chanel bleur. Blur for men thing.

55:23

Yeah. Yeah. I

55:26

think so. I think you should get a Chanel

55:28

suit. I mean, I

55:30

don't know. Okay. Anyway, you

55:32

look quite. You know,

55:35

did you watch Wolf

55:37

Hall? When it was

55:39

coming back, it's very dark. Wolves

55:41

Hall is quite dark. Yeah. It was quite

55:43

dark. But this is called the mirror and

55:46

the light. So maybe there's something

55:48

much lighter. Take note of the fact that people, viewers

55:50

found it too dark. Yeah. But I'm excited

55:52

because it was absolutely phenomenal. That series

55:54

from the brilliant books as well by

55:56

Hilary Mantelli, who's a genius. And.

56:00

And Peter Korsominski directed them, he's a brilliant director

56:02

as well. He did The Underclared War. Was that

56:04

this year or last year? Last year.

56:07

That was good. Really good, yeah. And

56:09

it's just, you know, really good news that

56:11

one of the best things of

56:13

its kind, one of the best period dramas based on

56:15

an extraordinary novel, is coming

56:17

back for this special episode. So that,

56:19

I consider to be the most exciting

56:22

TV news of the week. Prime

56:24

Video have killed some things. Oh yeah, yeah.

56:26

Well, they have killed. Colin

56:28

Coburn's Shelter. What? We

56:31

will not know what happened to, you know.

56:33

Oh, is that the YA one? Yeah, We

56:35

Volusar chap. Yeah, I'm not going to know

56:37

about that. The

56:39

Horror of Dolores Roach, gone. With

56:42

Love, gone. It was Dolores Roach, it

56:44

was immensely tedious. And it's

56:46

gone because of Boyce's Murder. It's gone because Boyce

56:48

said it was immensely tedious. So

56:51

that's gone. They're all going. It's finished. But

56:53

there's going to be a Cape Fear TV

56:55

series. Yeah, that's always good. Yeah, Scorsese and

56:57

Spielberg involved. It's mad, isn't it? It is.

57:00

Like of all the films that you think they

57:02

can dredge up for to make. I know how much

57:04

you enjoy it when they take an old film and

57:06

turn it into a TV series. So it's just Paramount

57:08

Plus as well. I didn't read the full. I

57:11

don't know, actually. They've specialised. I've got the story

57:13

here now. The show, which is in development from

57:15

UCP, a division of Universal Studio Group, an Amblin.

57:18

It's actually with Mark Scorsese's first ever

57:20

TV project together. It

57:23

doesn't say which outlet it's for though.

57:25

The log line for Cape Fear reimagining a storm is

57:27

coming for a pair of married attorneys when the infamous

57:30

killer from their past gets released after years in prison.

57:32

A tense contemporary thriller that examines Americans' documentary crime

57:34

in the 21st century said basically he's not going

57:37

to update the... I

57:39

absolutely love Cape Fear. Oh god, yeah. It's

57:41

fucking brilliant. Which version? I

57:44

will say the version is phenomenal. I think it's massive.

57:46

We're in the green. Oh, we are in 100%. I

57:50

think it's one of his most encounter... So

57:53

entertaining. It's so fun. It's so brilliantly made. Yeah,

57:55

it's one of my favourites. So I'm excited from

57:57

that point of view. the

58:00

Simpsons episode that riffed on it.

58:03

There's a couple of things that have riffed on it. There

58:05

was a, oh, this is going on with me now. Someone

58:07

will correct. There's a sitcom where

58:09

they did a big thing of it as well. There

58:11

might be a sign for an episode. I might be

58:13

inventing this. At this stage, who knows?

58:15

Who knows? I've said so much. No, you haven't. So I'm

58:17

actually excited about the K-15 TV project. Yeah,

58:21

I'm excited about that too. Daniel

58:23

Radcliffe is unemployed. What?

58:27

Because miracle workers. I'm sure

58:30

Daniel Radcliffe has other things to do, but miracle workers

58:32

has been cancelled. I didn't like that. No, we never

58:34

liked it. A lot of people did. Is that the

58:36

one based on Simon Richter? There were four seasons of

58:39

it. K loves Simon Richter. I do like the author

58:41

a lot. And yet, I

58:43

believe Radcliffe is actually on stage in

58:45

Broadway right this minute. So not unemployed.

58:47

Categorically not unemployed. With people. Will

58:50

you see him at, when he goes

58:52

to York? I hope so. Skimmering. I'll

58:56

come back, go backstage, see him after the show. I

58:58

saw him on stage once. I went to see Equus. I

59:01

did as well. In New York or here? Here. I

59:03

saw it in New York on Broadway. Did you? Yeah,

59:05

yeah, yeah. He was completely, absolutely naked. He is

59:08

full-frontal in you. Yes, he was. Was

59:10

it a good production? Yeah, I'm sorry. Was

59:12

that a euphemism? No, it wasn't. His production

59:15

was great. Sorry. He was

59:17

good. I thought it was great. I think he's a brilliant

59:19

play, by the way. BTW. He

59:21

is good. It's not a

59:23

comedy. It's very dark. Absolutely not a comedy, no.

59:26

Another thing we should probably briefly mention is,

59:29

while we're talking about cancelled shows, Blue Bloods

59:32

has been cancelled. And while

59:34

I could talk about this, far better

59:36

to turn over to our official Blue

59:39

Bloods correspondent, Mr. Chris Hewitt. James, I'm

59:41

fucking furious. I'm not surprised. I'm so

59:43

angry. I've only seen five episodes of Blue Bloods.

59:45

Has this come as a blow to you? It

59:48

has come as a blow to me, although genuinely I

59:50

haven't watched it for about three years. Really? Your favourite

59:52

TV show of all time in even how much of

59:54

a news? I have not watched Better Call Saul for

59:56

some time. That's right. No, I'm sad, but

59:58

it was time. Yeah, if

1:00:01

you're not watching it anymore Self is

1:00:03

reason enough to get rid of it. They did send

1:00:05

the press release. We've lost you it. Yeah. Yeah And

1:00:08

that's why they canceled the show. That's it. Yeah factor.

1:00:10

Yeah for it I will be watching it though Because

1:00:13

I'll be watching the last few episodes because I really want

1:00:15

to see if they kill the granddad off over

1:00:18

dinner. Presumably. Yeah Just

1:00:21

head just slams down on the table.

1:00:23

Yes, and they all do a high-five.

1:00:25

Yeah, and then freeze-frame freeze-frame I

1:00:28

think it might be a murder on your

1:00:30

and express and spoiler for that by the way, where

1:00:32

they all do it M The

1:00:35

old tip. Come on. It's a very very very

1:00:37

old film. I believe it was a book at one

1:00:39

point as well But you

1:00:41

know where they all take a turn so

1:00:43

so Frank the character played of course by

1:00:45

Tom Selleck director of the night right before

1:00:47

Christmas stabs him and

1:00:50

then Danny Play

1:00:52

by Donnie Wahlberg. I presume they called him Danny

1:00:54

so that And

1:00:58

then he like bangs him over the head with a frying pan Reeves

1:01:01

and water misty Lee and then they just they go down The line,

1:01:03

you know, Aaron has a go Jamie has a

1:01:06

go. They all have a go, but he's the

1:01:08

most hateful character He is he's deeply an absolutely

1:01:10

awful Have you ever talked about the

1:01:12

worst characters in TV history because he's up there with

1:01:14

the the dickhead with the baseball caps from 30 Rock

1:01:17

It is as in a terrible character in a

1:01:20

great and I'm using the word here very sparingly

1:01:23

great TV show You know, I watched

1:01:25

in their entirety Well, at

1:01:27

least the whole first series of blue bottom possibly the

1:01:29

second it's but you may have watched it

1:01:31

fifth and seventh On

1:01:35

Christmas say so just because so it's not in what

1:01:37

you did the stockers. Come on 14

1:01:40

years James use your I don't do math,

1:01:42

but it was it was sufficient There

1:01:45

you go There was a

1:01:48

period pre-pilot where I would just I would watch all

1:01:50

kinds of shit procedural But the procedural you hate procedure

1:01:52

Yeah, but I went for a period of being very unfussy with

1:01:54

my TV because I don't have to watch so much So I

1:01:56

actually watched a surprising number of procedures So

1:01:59

I love a procedural I did in

1:02:01

fact watch Blue Buzz. No, I hate them. They're

1:02:03

really basic. I'm talking about James. James, put your

1:02:05

microphone down. He doesn't

1:02:08

like anything. What's he doing on this show? He

1:02:10

does really. He says he doesn't. And then he

1:02:12

discovers that... He'll say, I don't like comedies. And

1:02:14

then he'll love comedy. He does 52 comedies that

1:02:16

he loves. I don't like procedures. Oh, I haven't

1:02:18

spent my entire time for three years watching Blue

1:02:20

Buzz. There's actually an

1:02:22

entire thread on the Pilot TV

1:02:24

subreddit dedicated to my contradictions. That's

1:02:27

absolutely true. I'm not making that up. I feel

1:02:30

like I don't have a look at the Reddit. Terrifying,

1:02:32

isn't it? That's a terrifying prospect. Not the

1:02:34

only thing. There's a pilot subreddit. There's

1:02:37

a thread dedicated to your contradictions. I don't know.

1:02:39

I do love a procedural. And

1:02:41

Blue Bloods is as gloriously inoffensive

1:02:43

as any of them. So,

1:02:46

you know, we're very, very behind the times in the

1:02:48

moment, my wife and I, but we started watching this

1:02:50

week Law & Order Organised

1:02:53

Crime, which is the spin-off that brings... I know.

1:02:55

We reviewed it on this podcast. So you know

1:02:57

it. You know of it. It's not

1:02:59

very good. Yeah. It's not

1:03:01

great. It's not great. But I'm very excited.

1:03:03

I still haven't seen any of the new

1:03:06

Law & Order's with Sam Waterstone back as

1:03:08

Jack McCoy, one of the greatest characters of

1:03:10

all time. But, you know, I

1:03:13

do love a procedural. And Blue Bloods, I thought,

1:03:15

was just fun. That family dynamic was fun. Tom

1:03:17

Selleck gave it a bit of gravitas. It's

1:03:19

just that one small thing, the

1:03:21

granddad character. Yeah. Played by

1:03:23

Len Carreyu, who I believe is something like 12

1:03:26

years older than Tom Selleck in real life. Oh,

1:03:28

yeah. Good fact. Good fact.

1:03:31

Blue Bloods, then, that died sadly this

1:03:33

year at the age of 14. Yeah,

1:03:35

not lamented by me. No. Yeah, I'll

1:03:37

watch the last episodes, but come on.

1:03:41

Thanks, Chris. Thanks, James. In

1:03:44

order to get back in this podcast from now on, keep you short, I

1:03:46

have to pretend to like it. It's hard

1:03:48

to say. Doctor Who? There's

1:03:50

a line. There's a line, boys. I'm

1:03:53

not sure I'm willing to grasp it. Fine. I

1:03:55

love to when I'm a kid. Yeah. Yeah, but

1:03:57

we all grew up. It's time. It's time, little

1:03:59

drinking game. It's always cool, is that her official name? But

1:04:02

yeah, it's not what I call her to her face. Maybe she loves

1:04:04

Doctor Who. Maybe

1:04:07

she does love Doctor Who. I loved it when I was a kid.

1:04:09

I loved it when I was a kid. It's

1:04:12

time to rejoin the team. Yeah, the Frightmare. What

1:04:14

was it called, Frightmare? The one where they did the nightmare

1:04:18

with the K. Yeah, the

1:04:20

other TV show that you have seen. Okay.

1:04:23

This has been fun. Chris, now, like the

1:04:25

TARDIS, will vanish. I've got two hearts.

1:04:28

Good, good, good. James doesn't even want

1:04:31

one. So that's... Oh! That's

1:04:33

just so sorry. You said it in the obvious.

1:04:35

Unbelievable. I wonder what they'll say about this appearance

1:04:37

on the pilot TV subreddit. Yes. Spoiled

1:04:41

by the flat. Unbelievable. Cheers.

1:04:45

There has been other news. Big Little Lies

1:04:47

is coming back for the third season, potentially,

1:04:49

because Nicole Kippman has been teasing this in

1:04:51

an interview. She mentioned it. So

1:04:53

we don't know 100%, but she does say. I

1:04:56

mean, she says, pretty unambiguously, we

1:04:58

will be bringing you a third one, FYI. So

1:05:01

when we say she hinted at it, it's

1:05:03

a statement of intent. Oh, they break from

1:05:06

it. Can we possibly divine from that that

1:05:08

maybe possibly a season is coming? I don't

1:05:10

know. Seems like it. Yeah.

1:05:13

I'm pleased about that because I know the second series wasn't

1:05:16

as good. Inherently wasn't as

1:05:18

good. But the first series was so good. I

1:05:20

like the characters. Yeah, the characters are brilliant. Yeah. You've

1:05:23

got to be effective with that. The second

1:05:25

one, that wasn't based on a Leanne Moriarty book.

1:05:28

I don't think so. It was just a freestyle. Yeah,

1:05:30

I think so. Yeah. We

1:05:33

didn't know who died, let alone knowing who

1:05:35

did it. And that worked so brilliantly. But

1:05:38

then the second series is like to try and

1:05:40

kind of repotate that. Anyway, did you see that?

1:05:42

Might be fine on yous, because we need to

1:05:44

move on. Kelsey Grammer. Did you see the story

1:05:46

in Variety? Did you see it? Kelsey Grammer wanted

1:05:48

a sillier return. Silly is one of the words

1:05:50

of the week. I think you're

1:05:53

fine. It's a very common

1:05:55

obvious word. And it's ready to release 100

1:05:57

more episodes. So

1:06:00

he says of Frasier. Now,

1:06:02

I just so happened to have watched a

1:06:04

later episode of the reboot of Frasier the

1:06:06

other day. Have you changed your opinion?

1:06:08

Someone sent it to me. Someone tweeted me or maybe even read

1:06:10

it out. I don't know. Obviously my memory is falling apart. So

1:06:13

they basically it's got better. It gets

1:06:15

better over the... and I watch... and it

1:06:17

was better. Still not Frasier. Still not to

1:06:19

make you want to watch more of it. But maybe

1:06:21

ish. But still not classic Frasier level

1:06:23

at all. It was never going to be. Maybe

1:06:25

it never will be. It was never going to

1:06:27

be. No, it was going to be. Anyway, he

1:06:29

certainly wants to know more. That is

1:06:31

crystal clear. There

1:06:34

you go. Okay. That was

1:06:36

it for news. And we now have a

1:06:38

second guess. You will recall

1:06:40

that we reviewed one night on Paramount Plus on

1:06:43

last week's show. This was Australian

1:06:45

set drama. Oh no. About

1:06:47

three friends who harbor a dark secret. And Jodie

1:06:49

Whittaker is one of those friends. Now Boyd spoke

1:06:51

to her very recently all about the role a

1:06:55

few weeks ago. And it was time sensitive. So there

1:06:57

are going to be questions in here about stuff that's

1:06:59

coming up. In fact, we'll now be in the past.

1:07:01

It's all gone to shit. But

1:07:04

nevertheless, it's a fantastic interview with

1:07:06

a fantastic person. And it is

1:07:08

worth noting that Jodie Whittaker's Australian

1:07:10

accent is significantly better than mine.

1:07:12

I mean, that's not really saying anything. It

1:07:15

is a good accent, Scott. There we go. Jodie

1:07:17

Whittaker now and Boyd. Hello, it's Boyd

1:07:20

from the Pilot TV podcast. Welcome Jodie

1:07:22

Whittaker. The last time

1:07:24

I saw you was when you were

1:07:26

regenerating. Yeah. Basically. And now

1:07:28

you've got a whole new world of shows that have come

1:07:30

on. How did this one fit in?

1:07:32

When you kind of finished Doctor Who, did you have a kind

1:07:34

of plan of the kind of thing you wanted to do? Or

1:07:36

did they just come along one by one? Boyd, you've

1:07:38

met me. Do you think I've got a plan? I've got no plan.

1:07:41

No, I was, well, my main

1:07:43

plan was in the Regen episodes,

1:07:46

me and only me knew.

1:07:48

But I was pregnant. So I knew that

1:07:50

as method acting goes, I had two hearts

1:07:53

in that episode and I'm the first Doctor

1:07:56

to have two hearts. So I knew that a brand

1:07:58

new version of Doctor Who, I think, was going to be a very good break

1:08:00

was coming. And the best thing

1:08:02

about it was that it

1:08:04

gave me a year, because obviously

1:08:06

we've got to, the episodes come out spread out for

1:08:08

ages. You look like you're working loads, but that's shot

1:08:10

on a year ago and it didn't come out for

1:08:13

another year. So it was at

1:08:15

that point when I started to think, right,

1:08:17

I'm ready to start reading things. But I

1:08:19

certainly thought it wouldn't be maybe the first

1:08:21

or second thing I read. And I certainly

1:08:23

thought the job would probably be a bit

1:08:25

more convenient and down the road. And

1:08:28

all of that got completely pushed

1:08:30

aside the minute I opened it

1:08:32

and I was in and I read, I was

1:08:34

sent through episodes. So

1:08:37

I saw the genius and beauty of

1:08:39

Emily's writing instantly. And I was completely

1:08:41

immersed and I had to play that

1:08:43

part. But mainly, it wasn't

1:08:45

just test. I wanted to be a part of a

1:08:47

show like this that touches on

1:08:49

a story that maybe we feel like

1:08:51

we've seen, but it has a completely

1:08:53

different POV and a different perspective. Yeah,

1:08:56

what is that? Because that POV, the episodes

1:08:58

literally go from one person's day to another.

1:09:00

You get a kind of different episode focusing

1:09:02

more on you. I thought it was really

1:09:04

interesting. I think that

1:09:06

was so genius because also, because it

1:09:09

explores ownership of memory, we then get

1:09:11

to follow these three friends

1:09:14

and see how each

1:09:17

thing is interpreted or how it affects

1:09:19

them. And often with

1:09:22

a storyline that covers sexual

1:09:24

assault, it's from the outside

1:09:27

looking in, it's the investigation, it's some

1:09:29

detectives talking about it and the survivor

1:09:31

of that becomes other. Whereas this, from

1:09:33

my point of view, obviously, plain test,

1:09:35

who is the survivor of the assault,

1:09:39

we see the 20 year decimation

1:09:41

that that can have on someone.

1:09:44

But also, what

1:09:47

the show explores is that this happening

1:09:49

to them doesn't just affect

1:09:51

them, whether that character can see

1:09:53

that or not, it has a ripple

1:09:56

and a grenade effect that affects

1:09:59

so many people. But

1:10:01

what I loved and felt so poetic

1:10:03

and I was so adamant about it

1:10:05

being, it wasn't allowed to be

1:10:08

this thing that could ever be edited out. It

1:10:10

was never going to be because Emily and Catherine

1:10:12

and Lisa, the two directors, were

1:10:14

so brilliant at doing. But the

1:10:16

marrying of the present

1:10:18

day and the 20-year previous

1:10:21

is so clever. And

1:10:23

you know, we've all seen the use of a

1:10:25

flashback and it sometimes works and it sometimes doesn't.

1:10:28

And to me, this is perfectly done. You could be

1:10:30

in a scene and talking to

1:10:33

the young version, younger version, we

1:10:35

always got

1:10:37

that, we were like, the

1:10:40

younger version of Nicole

1:10:43

is in the scene with me. And that

1:10:45

didn't need explaining, didn't need a whole

1:10:47

episode to explain why we're doing it. And

1:10:49

there were so many things like that, like a character

1:10:51

description from Emily about my character.

1:10:53

It's just a stage direction about something

1:10:56

to do with her physicality. And

1:10:58

it told me everything I needed to know. And

1:11:01

that's for me, it's given to the audience

1:11:03

in some respects, but it isn't also explained

1:11:05

for 20 minutes. And she

1:11:07

does that so well. What's it like having a

1:11:10

younger person playing you as well? What

1:11:12

it did do was it

1:11:14

made some scenes far more

1:11:16

affecting on me than I thought,

1:11:19

than I was prepared for. There's

1:11:21

a moment that I feel

1:11:24

as if I see myself in

1:11:26

a certain environment and I, without

1:11:30

giving anything away, want to protect myself from it.

1:11:33

And when I think back on, if I think

1:11:36

of a time, you know, I'm like a kid and I'm

1:11:38

on holiday, I can't

1:11:40

see the 15 year

1:11:43

old face, I can only see the face now.

1:11:46

So all, and that might just be me, but for

1:11:48

me, my memories have still got this version of me

1:11:50

in it. So

1:11:52

seeing a 19, 20 year old

1:11:55

and realizing the vulnerability and the

1:11:57

youth and the. the

1:12:00

loss of youth in such an event. And

1:12:03

the, the, when

1:12:06

you see it face to face with someone

1:12:08

who is so perfectly cast, because she looked

1:12:10

just like photos of me when I was

1:12:12

younger. It was

1:12:14

really powerful and very

1:12:17

affecting. And I thought it was

1:12:19

brilliantly done. But one thing that was, it

1:12:22

was so important was that I think that

1:12:24

that give her credit, it was her first

1:12:26

ever job. And she is phenomenal in

1:12:29

it. Yeah. And taught

1:12:31

me so much about how to play chess. This

1:12:34

show has a lot of heavyweight themes. I mean,

1:12:37

you know, it's dealing with serious stuff. At the

1:12:39

same time, you do get some some phenomenal scenes

1:12:41

where you get to like, be

1:12:43

crazily mad and angry at various people.

1:12:45

I love those conversations. They fun to

1:12:47

do. I mean, you can pair into

1:12:50

people. You can pair into people. But

1:12:52

also, I think the thing that is

1:12:54

explored brilliantly, particularly within the friendship group

1:12:56

is you can love, hate, be

1:12:59

besotted, want to kick, want to

1:13:01

cuddle someone who you've got that

1:13:03

history with. You can feel all

1:13:05

those things at the same time.

1:13:07

And that you can have

1:13:09

like a kind of sibling relationship with

1:13:11

people that you haven't seen for 20

1:13:13

years. And you can feel as if

1:13:16

things are broken beyond repair, or you can feel

1:13:18

as if the mountain has been climbed. And you

1:13:20

can feel all those things all the time. And

1:13:23

friendships, when relationships are explored more often

1:13:25

than not, it's a marriage, it's

1:13:27

an affair. It

1:13:29

has a sexual tension. This

1:13:32

exploring friendship, with

1:13:35

all those other things present in

1:13:37

everyone's life. But

1:13:39

that being the theme, to me

1:13:41

was really interesting, because it isn't

1:13:43

often those are the periphery friends,

1:13:45

friendships are the periphery, you've got your

1:13:48

lead characters, and they've got a

1:13:50

best mate, but the best mates,

1:13:52

and also not only a me hat,

1:13:54

and Simone, or

1:13:57

like Tess, and Simone, the POV.

1:14:00

but the town is a character. Like

1:14:02

Broadchurch, you know, you couldn't have shot

1:14:04

Broadchurch and not... Sometimes

1:14:08

geography is its own character and I think that that

1:14:11

is very specific to this. And for me, obviously,

1:14:13

it was an absolute treat, it's Sydney in

1:14:15

winter. It looks spectacular. Yeah, it's a rule,

1:14:17

it was beautiful. What's interesting is time was

1:14:19

about a friendship between three women, really. Yeah,

1:14:22

well, interestingly, I think for me, my character

1:14:24

is very much on the outside of that

1:14:26

as well, but also going

1:14:28

into a trio again, I was like,

1:14:30

this is, I mean, three's work. I

1:14:33

just think when you have three perspectives or three

1:14:35

narratives and three storyline, it has been fascinating to

1:14:37

do both of those. And it was really interesting

1:14:40

reading it because I was in Sydney when I

1:14:42

got sent it. So I was like, this

1:14:44

is so different, but has a

1:14:48

three-hander theme to

1:14:50

it. And it was

1:14:53

just such a brilliant, wonderfully

1:14:58

opposing drama

1:15:00

to go into, but still as

1:15:02

kind of hard and battering. Yeah,

1:15:06

you're in distress in a lot of these times. I have

1:15:08

to say, I mean, we've talked about this before, but you

1:15:10

enjoy that. That is one, you find that challenging. I

1:15:12

think this is the thing, I've got no plan, I've got no

1:15:14

tactic, I've got no, this is what I should be doing. If

1:15:16

I read it and I'm lucky

1:15:19

enough to get it, but the

1:15:21

things that appeal, I can't predict what's going

1:15:23

to appeal. I don't know, it's just my, because if you

1:15:26

just said to me 20 years ago, Doctor

1:15:28

Who, I would have never thought of myself being

1:15:30

able to play the Doctor. So if

1:15:32

you just said, I don't know, but it

1:15:34

isn't until you read something that you go,

1:15:36

oh my God, and you can predict what

1:15:38

other things are going to hook. I

1:15:41

mean, the thing was, in time though, it just went, so

1:15:44

during the season two of time and Jimmy

1:15:47

McGovern and, you know, obviously Helen's written it as well,

1:15:49

but it got like the headline of Jimmy McGovern. I

1:15:51

was like, yeah, I mean, no, would you want to read

1:15:53

it? Yeah, but I mean,

1:15:55

what's the character called? Love it. And even better, what

1:15:58

are your character for? from

1:16:00

Huddersfield brilliant because I was

1:16:02

in the depths of Australian

1:16:04

dialect. How did you find playing someone with that

1:16:06

accent? And also the other interesting thing about it

1:16:08

is you're married to another woman in it, you're

1:16:11

playing that. Did that affect your performance at all?

1:16:13

I just think the playing, what

1:16:15

was interesting was the relationship

1:16:17

between Tess and

1:16:19

Vicky was

1:16:23

that very, it

1:16:26

was so fascinating playing someone

1:16:29

who has so many guards

1:16:31

up even within that very

1:16:33

intimate space of a loving

1:16:35

relationship. And I think that

1:16:38

what I loved about that was that actually

1:16:41

who Tess can be the

1:16:44

coldest towards is the person who's

1:16:46

the most secure

1:16:49

for her and that that was

1:16:51

really brilliant to play and Kat Stewart's

1:16:53

a phenomenal actress. And this is what was amazing

1:16:55

for me, it was like every other day I

1:16:57

was on set with someone who I'd never worked

1:16:59

with before. I'd like, obviously I've heard of their

1:17:01

work but I had no reference point to it

1:17:04

because it's the other side of the world. And

1:17:06

so it was just amazing knowing

1:17:08

that you're going to put, there's all

1:17:10

this incredible television coming out of Australia

1:17:12

and suddenly I was like, I'm going to get to be

1:17:14

in. There

1:17:16

is an Australian wife, isn't there? Yeah,

1:17:20

we're just late to catch up. I mean, their

1:17:22

television has been extraordinary for ages. I think it's

1:17:24

just, it's more accessible.

1:17:26

It's not the, I

1:17:28

think it's just the fact we can now watch

1:17:31

it without it being such a dramatic kind of

1:17:33

staying up till 2am. Is

1:17:37

there any particular, you watched comment from accounts, have you seen that we

1:17:39

heard about? Oh my God, do you know what?

1:17:41

There's so many, I think our DOP on the second block

1:17:43

shot there. So there was this big

1:17:45

thing of like, what is this? Because

1:17:47

for ages I thought it was Colin, it's like, is it

1:17:49

Colin from accounts? No, I thought it was, do you

1:17:51

remember Colin Robinson

1:17:54

in What We Do In

1:17:57

The Shatter? I was like, is he going

1:17:59

to go and chat? I love you mate. I

1:18:01

know but then, so yeah, and you know like

1:18:04

the clearing, the classic theory, you know there's just

1:18:06

so, but there's so much, there's so much

1:18:08

and on all of them what I was working

1:18:10

with are in it all. So you're

1:18:12

just like, and now what's brilliant is I watched it from work

1:18:14

with them. They're my mate.

1:18:17

So you found yourself doing

1:18:20

an Australian production in Australia, would you do

1:18:22

more? You know, I mean, I was

1:18:24

absolutely being a pain in the ass to

1:18:26

everyone going, think of me, you

1:18:28

know, think and remember me. It was

1:18:31

an extraordinary joyful time for me because

1:18:33

as a family, we moved there

1:18:35

for four and a half months. It was incredible. It's

1:18:38

an incredible place. It's a, I

1:18:41

loved it and I felt like

1:18:44

the work was such a

1:18:46

gift to be on that set with

1:18:48

those people with that script and yeah,

1:18:50

and you know, and the

1:18:54

fact that that happened during our winter. Yeah.

1:18:57

That's fabulous. Yeah. What

1:18:59

would we be doing on the 25th of

1:19:01

Saturday, the 25th of November, 6.30 PM? Do

1:19:04

you know, do you know what? Well,

1:19:07

thanks for giving weekend, but I

1:19:10

may be sat in front of

1:19:12

the television going, I can't

1:19:15

believe it's not me. Yeah,

1:19:18

that's a good reaction. Yeah, I

1:19:20

can't wait. I can't wait. I'll be

1:19:22

there when we're cushing in case it gets, yeah.

1:19:25

Although I know how it works now. Yeah.

1:19:28

You shouldn't be that shit. No. No. And

1:19:31

I was a little, but David Tennant told me that

1:19:33

you had, you and him had a chat with the

1:19:35

shooty guy before he kind of stepped out into the

1:19:37

line. There was a

1:19:39

WhatsApp group where I over left, I mean,

1:19:41

everyone else left very succinct one. I left

1:19:43

like nine minutes. So I was like, oh

1:19:46

no, no, no, no, no, my God. So

1:19:48

I could, I have absolutely gone at 10. So

1:19:51

when I finally meet shooty, he'll probably

1:19:53

be dreading it because I'm like, that's so exciting,

1:19:56

but he's going to smash it. And

1:19:59

I cannot wait. wait. It's very exciting.

1:20:01

Yeah, it's very exciting. Yeah. And the next

1:20:03

project I want to show you is the

1:20:05

Jack Thorne series, which you're doing. What

1:20:07

can you say about that? Well, I think I'm allowed

1:20:09

to now. Yeah. So I'm doing

1:20:11

a four part drama. And

1:20:14

Jack Thorne has written called

1:20:16

toxic town, which is based

1:20:21

on true events, which shockingly,

1:20:24

I didn't know anything about. And

1:20:27

I think for a lot of people,

1:20:29

it will, you know, it'll, it'll

1:20:31

be fascinating to know how little

1:20:34

they knew about such a huge

1:20:36

event, that during the 90s, a

1:20:38

lot of women gave

1:20:44

birth to children with limb difference. And

1:20:46

it took them years

1:20:48

to, I don't know if

1:20:51

this is spoiler, but essentially, it is

1:20:53

a poisoning within the town actually happened

1:20:56

in Corby, where the

1:20:59

steel factory were

1:21:01

mishandling their

1:21:04

like refuse. And so it

1:21:06

had catastrophic effects on

1:21:08

a community. And it's

1:21:11

playing a real woman, which is

1:21:13

I've done for and is challenging

1:21:16

and fascinating. And yeah,

1:21:18

it's wonderful. I haven't talked about

1:21:20

it yet. Yeah, sure. Do you know what? So that's the

1:21:22

first time I've said out loud because of the flag strikes.

1:21:24

So I don't know how articulate that was. No, no,

1:21:26

you think you might have to voice

1:21:28

note. Yeah, no,

1:21:31

that was really fascinating. Thank you so much. That

1:21:34

was the only way to go. Should we move on

1:21:36

to reviews? As is our way?

1:21:38

Love a good. Yeah, let's do it. This

1:21:40

is slightly ramshackle this week's podcast. I've got

1:21:42

quite sure maybe something in the air. It's

1:21:45

fatigue. Maybe we've watched too many adverts. First

1:21:47

up this week, we have

1:21:49

the return of slow horses, which I may

1:21:51

or may not have seen some time ago,

1:21:53

even though Boyd wasn't allowed to. This is

1:21:55

absolutely no both of you

1:21:59

now. You're,

1:22:02

you're one up for each other every

1:22:04

week. In fairness, I

1:22:06

take the words where I can get it because

1:22:08

Boyd, one ups me on absolutely everything. Yeah, that

1:22:10

is true. Okay, fair enough. Yes.

1:22:13

Okay. This is the return of the

1:22:15

Apple TV Plus show based on the

1:22:17

McCarran books. This sees Gary Oldman as

1:22:19

disheveled spymaster, Jackson Lamb, who's banned of

1:22:21

rejects and misfits. I get tied up

1:22:24

in another espionage caper. Boydie, were

1:22:26

you once more a lion for

1:22:28

lamb? Oh

1:22:30

my God. I absolutely

1:22:33

love this, this year as the show. I

1:22:36

mean, you know, some things are like, this

1:22:39

is why you watched it like five years

1:22:41

ago, since the screens are made available on

1:22:43

the wonderful Apple TV Plus screen or website.

1:22:45

I love that. That's the best. So

1:22:49

like complete. Yeah, we found like, Apple shows is what we

1:22:51

found. I tell

1:22:53

you why I like it. I've said this before

1:22:55

because every other streamer makes

1:22:58

it like a certain plea to get screeners. I

1:23:00

mean, everything instantly gets sent to Boyd, right? Without

1:23:02

a doubt. Like before, because he's Boyd. Yeah. Because

1:23:05

he's Boyd, Boyd gets everything. Never has to request

1:23:07

anything. James seconds. He's like between me and Boyd.

1:23:09

So he gets quite a lot of scrabble around

1:23:11

for crumbs. Oh, basically. So then my feeling always

1:23:13

is I'm just not going to watch it. But

1:23:16

you guys go stop being pathetic and

1:23:18

ridiculous. But Apple is the only

1:23:20

site that has everything there. And I can

1:23:22

just watch it anyway. That wasn't, yes. That's

1:23:24

not the only reason why we have been

1:23:27

so crucially. Anyway. I cranked

1:23:29

up episode one of SoHorses season three,

1:23:32

fully intending on a midweek, like on

1:23:34

a school night. I'll just watch

1:23:36

this. I need you to watch it to write better.

1:23:38

For heat. I wrote preview in heat. And how many

1:23:41

stars? Five. Seen it. But

1:23:45

I just had to try and watch it. And

1:23:47

I think I was up to three.

1:23:49

Shut up. Mid afternoon for you. But

1:23:51

fine. Yeah. It's just so purely

1:23:53

enjoyable and fun and brilliantly

1:23:56

done. Gary Oldman. I

1:23:58

mean, I love him anyway. But it's. like, because we

1:24:00

lucky weren't shooting him for the podcast last season, I

1:24:03

think, and we saski Reeves together and he was like,

1:24:05

yeah, this is like, I cannot tell

1:24:07

you how much fun it is to make the show.

1:24:09

He cannot remember how happy is to get this role,

1:24:11

you know, this time of his career. It kind

1:24:14

of is like almost like postmodern because he did

1:24:16

Tinkotay the Soldier's Spy and George Smiley in a

1:24:18

brilliant film. I went on about this last time.

1:24:20

Sorry, you did. I did. I'm changed by Charlie

1:24:22

A. All right. You absolutely did. All

1:24:25

right. But anyway, he's absolutely, but he's even

1:24:27

more fun in this third season than before.

1:24:29

He has an even better wind breaking scene

1:24:32

than he did in the previous wind breaking

1:24:34

scenes. He's a wind man. The

1:24:36

Slobbery is just at maximum levels. I

1:24:39

think this is the best season yet as

1:24:41

well, because the story revolves around the kidnapping.

1:24:43

I'm going to say this bit. Yeah, you

1:24:46

can say that. I think he's in the

1:24:48

trailer. Okay. The kidnapping of Standish, played by

1:24:50

Saskia Reeves, his oldest, longest, closest

1:24:53

colleague in the Slow

1:24:56

Horses group. And so you really care for

1:24:58

her because she's such a brilliant character as

1:25:00

well. And the plot

1:25:02

revolving around why, how and who

1:25:05

has kidnapped it so brilliantly doubles

1:25:07

back on itself. And there's so many twists and

1:25:09

turns and it just

1:25:11

keeps you on your toes. There's a

1:25:13

new character played by Sherpeter Reeses if you

1:25:15

haven't got enough brilliant people in it. He's

1:25:18

a fascinating character. In fact, it begins with an

1:25:20

interesting kind of cold open scene with him in

1:25:22

Istanbul, which I won't spoil it.

1:25:26

The newer members of the ensemble like Khadif

1:25:28

Kewan, who plays Marcus, who's the guy with

1:25:30

the gambling habit, he gets to do more

1:25:33

in the series. And, you

1:25:35

know, he gets to be like a man with

1:25:37

a machine gun and chase around and have fights

1:25:39

and all of that, which he doesn't want to

1:25:41

be that man. It's just

1:25:43

so but it's so brilliantly written,

1:25:46

beautifully directed, looks fantastic. And

1:25:48

you've got the best ensemble

1:25:50

of characters who are, you

1:25:52

know, relatable, we'll use that

1:25:54

tedious word funny, engaging, and

1:25:57

the interrelationships seems with Kristin Scott

1:25:59

Thomas. and Gary Oldman. And they're just

1:26:01

like gold. And Sophie

1:26:03

Offenado. Sophie Offenado. Brilliant, she gets

1:26:05

to kind of, she's the boss

1:26:07

of Kristen Scott Thomas and their

1:26:09

competitiveness is brilliant. It's just

1:26:11

an absolute masterpiece of a show. And I think last time,

1:26:13

I can't remember when we voted for our favorite shows of

1:26:16

the year. I have to remind myself just how brilliant it

1:26:18

is. Actually it was high up then, wasn't it? It was

1:26:20

high up. I don't think it was high up, it was

1:26:22

on the list. And very last year, we had two seasons

1:26:24

of this last year. One at the beginning of the year,

1:26:26

one at the end of the year. So this, we've had

1:26:28

half as many this year. Frankly, I feel bereft about that.

1:26:31

But it is so good. I have to remind, when we're

1:26:33

voting for that, how just how good the show is. How

1:26:36

good the show is. Absolutely, one of the best things. It

1:26:38

is top banana. It is top banana, 100%. Brilliant.

1:26:41

I agree with everything you said. I've got nothing more to add

1:26:43

other than that. No, it is. It's

1:26:45

like, but I'm gonna try as hard

1:26:47

as possible not to binge it, because I know you guys

1:26:49

have done that. Binge it? Why don't you binge it? Why

1:26:52

don't you always be over? But

1:26:54

I say that, we're on Thursday, by this weekend.

1:26:56

Oh, it'll be done by the weekend. And apologies

1:26:58

to anyone who, which is everyone who can't actually

1:27:01

do that. But it's just, are there any six

1:27:03

episodes? Wait, wait, wait. Are they not dropping at

1:27:05

all? No, no, it's week by week. First to

1:27:07

drop first. It's double bill at least. I feel

1:27:09

sorry for this. Oh, sorry. That's really annoying then. If

1:27:12

I'd known that, I wouldn't have said that. Apple's quite rigid

1:27:14

with it. He never does that. No, no,

1:27:16

but then Apple never does that. They shouldn't either, because they don't

1:27:18

have that many shows. So I think that it's much better that

1:27:20

they do it week by week, because they need to reach it

1:27:22

out a little bit. So I think

1:27:24

it builds up that anticipation. It does. More of an

1:27:26

event. The thing is, this is a show, as Paul said,

1:27:28

it is a joy to binge

1:27:30

watch this. But equally to watch it week by

1:27:32

week, you're savoring it. So there's the songs we've

1:27:34

said for that as well. But it's genuinely wonderful.

1:27:36

And what I liked about this so much is

1:27:38

you talked about the cold open, which does take

1:27:40

place in Istanbul. And there is a boat chase,

1:27:42

the variety of other things that happens during that

1:27:44

cold open. But it feels in that cold open

1:27:46

that it's almost, there's

1:27:48

almost an element of satire to that,

1:27:50

that it's referencing the Bond films that

1:27:52

it so clearly subverts with the rest

1:27:54

of the show. Because he's not that

1:27:56

show at all. And he doesn't pretend

1:27:58

to be. And that I really

1:28:01

enjoyed that open. I thought I was, I was

1:28:03

chuckling away as I, as I watched that. But

1:28:05

you know, this is not Istanbul. This is EC

1:28:07

one. This is the Barbican. This is like greasy

1:28:09

chip shops. This is, you know, I was speaking

1:28:11

of greasy Gary Oldman has never been greasy yet

1:28:13

in his life. It's

1:28:16

amazing weaponized flatulence. It's all that stuff,

1:28:18

but there's so much fun to be

1:28:20

around all these characters. It's all about

1:28:22

Gary Oldman. It is. And the fact that, you know,

1:28:24

Saskia Reeves character has been, um, yeah,

1:28:26

I mean, then we see him just kind

1:28:29

of going to different gear altogether, you know,

1:28:31

and I love that side of him. Um,

1:28:33

Jack Loudon, he's also great in this as

1:28:36

river cart, right? There's a fantastic kind of

1:28:38

like break in sequence. I like Nick Duffy,

1:28:40

who's the head of the, uh, the kind

1:28:42

of the dogs, the kind of MI five

1:28:44

security service that he gets as a bully

1:28:46

guy, like he gets a bigger

1:28:48

role in this, uh, you know, I liked,

1:28:50

uh, Amy, if you're on Edwards, who is,

1:28:52

um, who is brilliant in this, uh, of

1:28:54

PG blinders fame. Uh, she's really, really good.

1:28:57

I love everyone in this. I want to spend

1:29:00

my entire life with these characters because they're just

1:29:02

wonderful. And if I was to make

1:29:04

any criticism of this at all, and I really have nothing

1:29:06

bad to say about it, it would be that there

1:29:09

are some quite elaborate action

1:29:11

sequences in this season, and that's not a

1:29:13

bad thing, but I think sometimes it's like,

1:29:15

it's great and they do it really well,

1:29:17

but that's not why I come to this.

1:29:19

Like I come to this for the quieter

1:29:21

character moments. I come to this for the

1:29:23

band. I come to this for the Jackson

1:29:25

lamb. I'm like being Jack lamb. So I

1:29:28

don't need the shootouts in the same way.

1:29:30

Oh, I'd say I know what you're saying,

1:29:32

but the, the shooter in particular, which is

1:29:34

Epic, right? It is. It's brilliant. It's brilliant

1:29:36

because it's completely works because you, you

1:29:38

wonder how they're going to get out of this. It's, it's, it's, it's, so

1:29:41

it's not just the kind of gratuitous, uh, we need to

1:29:43

finish this thing with it, but it's not just the gratuitous.

1:29:45

We need to end this. We need to do this big

1:29:47

action sequence now. It totally makes sense to in the confines

1:29:49

of how are these people? Yeah. It's a plot centric. How?

1:29:52

And that ends up being another joy to

1:29:56

see in front of your very eyes how they managed to

1:29:58

actually get themselves from those kinds of scenes. But

1:30:00

I have enjoyed what they've done in the past where

1:30:02

action sequence have largely been Gary Olber

1:30:04

being withering to people. That for me is I'm

1:30:06

here for that kind of finale. But the other

1:30:08

thing that really I love the fact that he's

1:30:11

genius comes to the fore more in the story.

1:30:14

He's like, because he is obviously completely useless, sloppy,

1:30:16

but all of that stuff. But he's amazing at

1:30:18

his job. Brilliant genius at

1:30:20

doing what he's doing. But this is what's so

1:30:22

good about this show that these are the rejects

1:30:24

of MI5. But the whole point is

1:30:27

they are all they've all fucked up, but fucked

1:30:29

up within a difficult system and they're all

1:30:31

incredibly competent and good at what they do.

1:30:34

Except that's slam water. They do fuck up all

1:30:36

the time because they're rash and they don't follow

1:30:38

orders. They just go off and do crazy things

1:30:40

with it in particular. It's

1:30:42

I mean, it's so much fun, isn't it? It is

1:30:44

so much fun. Love slow

1:30:46

horses. Frankly, we should be doing spoilers of this

1:30:49

weekly on pilot. We

1:30:51

started doing our murder at the end of the world

1:30:53

weekly spoilers and pilot plus those of you who are

1:30:55

not listening and want to hear that. But

1:30:58

anyway, slow horses, which comes to Apple TV plus

1:31:00

on what day Boyd? Yes. Wednesday.

1:31:04

Correct. Oh, there you go.

1:31:06

Wednesday on Wednesday. Wednesday on Friday in this

1:31:08

case. Wednesday. They take that

1:31:10

victory away. And hopefully the fourth

1:31:13

season, which I know has been

1:31:15

made, will drop at some point.

1:31:17

Shut up. Already made. Yes. Well,

1:31:20

I mean, I probably won't finish, but yeah, I wonder if

1:31:22

they'll hold out for a bit longer. No,

1:31:24

give it to me now. I want it in January. Yeah. If

1:31:27

you watch in Jan, you can't talk about it even

1:31:29

to say you've watched. Oh,

1:31:32

I make no promises.

1:31:34

I can't handle six months of

1:31:36

you wagging on about it. I'm

1:31:38

having to listen to it. That

1:31:42

is true. Next

1:31:44

up we have the couple next

1:31:47

door. This is a six part thriller on Channel

1:31:49

four based on new neighbors. Now not to be

1:31:51

confused with new neighbors, which is a very different

1:31:53

proposition, but the Dutch series called new neighbors. Indeed.

1:31:57

It's an adventure. This

1:32:00

stars Ellen Somlinson and Alfred Enoch as a couple

1:32:02

who move into a new house, only for it

1:32:04

all to get a bit weird with their swinging

1:32:06

neighbours. And by weird, we mean

1:32:08

the kind of weird that ends with guns

1:32:10

and murder. And we know this because it's

1:32:12

literally given away in the shows cold open.

1:32:14

Isn't that right, Kay? Yes. It

1:32:17

literally opens with a bang when we hear a

1:32:19

gunshot ringing out and we see a negligee-clad

1:32:23

woman running

1:32:25

away from a little cabin in the

1:32:27

woodlands or whatever. She's running away from

1:32:29

a couple and a man who's wafting

1:32:31

a gun at her and

1:32:33

the couple. So it's a bit confusing. You're like,

1:32:35

what the hell's going on? The woman is a

1:32:37

character called Evie, played by Ellen Somlinson. We

1:32:40

learn that she's a teacher who's recently

1:32:42

moved to a posh area with

1:32:45

her husband who's also her university sweetheart.

1:32:47

I'm going to be honest, he's a

1:32:49

wet lettuce. Is that an expression? That's

1:32:52

Alex's expression. He's

1:32:54

such a wet lettuce. Extraordinary

1:32:57

soggy carrot. Yeah, he's a wet blanket,

1:32:59

that's it. Anyway, and they're

1:33:01

expecting a baby. They move next

1:33:03

door to this couple, Becca, who's

1:33:05

an Australian yoga teacher. She's quite

1:33:07

sparky and energetic and full

1:33:09

on. But she seems to be quite nice.

1:33:11

And she's got a traffic officer husband called

1:33:13

Danny. He's an alpha male character

1:33:16

played by Sam... Ewan. Ewan, thank

1:33:18

you. He already preempted, I would be able to

1:33:20

say it. Thank you, James. And

1:33:23

he's a bit of a bellend. And instantly

1:33:25

doesn't get on that well with Pete because

1:33:27

they're just like complete total opposites. And

1:33:29

as you say, there's some... They're

1:33:32

into their swinging and that whole storyline is

1:33:34

going to develop. Now,

1:33:38

this should be up my street, right? A domestic

1:33:40

thriller. Okay, maybe a bit of swinging. I'm not

1:33:42

saying I'm into that, but you know that as

1:33:44

a free source. I love it

1:33:46

as swinging. I've seen the pampers cross outside

1:33:48

your house, boy. But

1:33:52

this to me just didn't work on

1:33:54

any level. I think it's

1:33:58

the script possibly. And

1:34:01

then that affected the performances. I mean, my first,

1:34:03

my main thing is, when I was watching this,

1:34:06

I was watching at home and I

1:34:08

was really annoying boy, because I called him about three times to

1:34:11

ask questions. This is true. Yeah.

1:34:13

It was like you just put your car keys in

1:34:15

a bowl. It's not that complicated. Yeah.

1:34:18

No, my main question was where

1:34:20

the character of Danny, where he was

1:34:22

from. Because in

1:34:24

one scene at first, I started off, the

1:34:26

scene started, I thought, is he from Australia?

1:34:29

Like his wife. And then I

1:34:31

was like, no, is he from, what is he

1:34:33

like? And then boys like, no, I'm sure he's

1:34:35

from the North. And I was like, oh, okay.

1:34:37

And then by the end of it, I was

1:34:39

like, no, I think he's from somewhere else altogether.

1:34:41

So yeah, that was confusing, but I

1:34:44

just didn't think really much

1:34:46

of this worked. And then to add on top

1:34:48

of that, there's like this layer of cheese that

1:34:50

comes at the end in the rain, right? That

1:34:52

is so. Rainy cheese. What is

1:34:54

that? Is that with the wet lettuce?

1:34:57

It's rainy cheese in there as well. It's the stringy

1:34:59

mozzarella situation. No, but there's a really

1:35:01

cheesy. Oh, I know exactly what you're referring

1:35:04

to. Yeah, the bike scene, but also the

1:35:06

bin scene. Right. The bin scene.

1:35:08

I've taken the bins out many times and that

1:35:10

has never happened to me. If that happened

1:35:12

to me, I would take the bins out more locally as well. I mean,

1:35:14

it takes time to me and the Tower Bridge where I live. You

1:35:17

get all kinds of shenanigans going on. Yeah,

1:35:19

well, all I'm saying is. I'm just glad

1:35:22

that you've made your opinion clear and you

1:35:24

have left it to me. Yes. The

1:35:27

most extraordinary strand of the show,

1:35:30

which is Hugh Dennis. Yeah. Of

1:35:32

comedy fame, outnumbered and

1:35:34

mock the weak fame, playing a

1:35:36

neighbour who is a obsessive peeping

1:35:39

Tom as his expressions on his

1:35:41

face were only lascivious for people.

1:35:43

Literally with a telescope or whatever,

1:35:45

spies on Becker. He gives good

1:35:47

lech. But also, the eye cam

1:35:49

that you get when

1:35:52

he looks into his head. I

1:35:54

know. He is the

1:35:56

funniest. I mean, borderline, I don't know, deliberate or

1:35:58

not. Who knows? It's disconcerting. Do you know what

1:36:00

the problem with this show is? All

1:36:03

of it? Apart from the stuff

1:36:05

you mentioned. Yeah, there are some good elements. No.

1:36:08

Total shift. Yes. I mean, because the

1:36:10

other thing you ever mentioned is there's

1:36:12

quite a heavy storyline. I don't know,

1:36:14

I won't say what it is, but

1:36:17

I'm just going to say it, heavy

1:36:19

emotional. Yeah. Right? Storyline.

1:36:21

You know which one I'm referring to. I know what you're referring

1:36:23

to. Maybe it's considered a spoiler. It is. I

1:36:26

found, nothing offends me ever, as you know.

1:36:28

I found it borderline offensive. That

1:36:30

one minute you're supposed to be emotionally devastated

1:36:32

by that. In the next minute, he's

1:36:35

going on the back of a bike with his

1:36:37

doofus around that block. And practically, you're probably having

1:36:39

an orgasm. As a result,

1:36:42

it's trash. This is trash. But

1:36:45

subconsciously kind of trash and cheesy. A bit.

1:36:47

But then you have that extra end to

1:36:49

the story, which is totally unnecessary and gratuitous,

1:36:51

in my opinion. The thing that I'm talking

1:36:53

about, you will see it. Listeners,

1:36:56

if you bother to watch it. I

1:36:58

just found it like, it really annoyed me. And

1:37:00

funnily enough, I went to the launch of this. They had

1:37:03

a pano que no. I didn't know. Did you

1:37:05

host it? No, I didn't. Did they take

1:37:07

you around the block on a motorbike? Neither of that. But there was

1:37:09

a few people saying to me, I was thinking that strand was kind

1:37:11

of a bit uncalled for. I was like, yeah, I think so. So

1:37:13

that kind of like, could I love a bit of trash? On

1:37:16

paper, as you say, the whole idea is

1:37:18

fine. And this is, by the way, this

1:37:20

is adapted from a foreign language. I think

1:37:22

a Dutch show or, you know. Yeah, the

1:37:24

neighbors. Channel 4 is doing a lot of

1:37:27

these where they take a water presents their

1:37:29

strand, their international subtitled drama strand and

1:37:31

your British version. I

1:37:33

have to say, I mean, Channel 4 does

1:37:35

brilliant things. Don't get me wrong. They've done

1:37:38

fantastic things recently. Brilliant comedies, brilliant. I

1:37:42

do question a bit that

1:37:44

this whole thing about remaking these water presentions.

1:37:46

Well, they should have based on this because

1:37:48

this is just. Yeah, this isn't great. None of them

1:37:50

have been great, to be honest. They've been OK. They've

1:37:52

been fine. They've been fine. Some of them better than

1:37:54

others. I just don't feel a bit wrong. I don't

1:37:56

know. I feel a bit lazy. That's

1:37:58

the word, isn't it? to kind of do

1:38:01

another one of these shows. And to be

1:38:03

fair, the scriptwriter during the Q&A did say he

1:38:05

was given completely free reign to completely change from

1:38:07

the original series. I think this is significantly different

1:38:10

from the original series, but the kernel of the idea

1:38:12

is there. I just

1:38:14

think they should have kept it all trash. Just

1:38:16

do it trashy. Go for it. Go for broke.

1:38:18

Do it cheesy. Embrace the cheese. No,

1:38:20

the idea would be... No,

1:38:22

it could have been relentlessly entertaining and fun. Or

1:38:25

bearing in mind all your things about the accent of such a

1:38:27

reason is valid. But as it is,

1:38:30

the thing, the emotions are kind of indifferent.

1:38:33

The tonal gymnastics are quite

1:38:36

extraordinary. Gymnastics is a good word.

1:38:39

I was just like, you can be flexible,

1:38:41

but Christ, even the fucking yoga

1:38:43

teacher in this would have struggled to have

1:38:45