0:00

This podcast is sponsored by OMI. The

0:02

company that makes CRM work! Today's

0:04

guest is Kevin Hopp CEO of Hopp

0:06

Consulting Group. So

0:11

Kevin, welcome to the podcast.

0:14

I would like to start just by asking you about Hopp Consulting

0:16

Group, obviously , the

0:18

autonomous consulting group. What do

0:21

you do? Who do you serve? I'm familiar with your

0:24

podcast, which is excellent, but let's assume that

0:26

the people listening are not, tell us about yourself.

0:28

Sure thing. Yeah, my name's Kevin Hopp. I

0:31

run my own small consulting business

0:33

and I make sure to say the word small, because

0:35

I am very committed to being a solo entrepreneur

0:38

for at least the next year and a half.

0:40

So all my clients get my time.

0:43

Why is my time important? Why would they work with me? So

0:45

I , I work exclusively with early

0:47

stage and late, early

0:50

stage tech companies. So

0:52

my experience in the working world has

0:54

all been with early stage tech companies.

0:56

So I've been the first hire in a

0:58

business four different times. Three of

1:00

those were software companies. So

1:02

I've always been the only guy in the room

1:05

when the founder looks around and says,

1:08

who are we gonna sell to? How are we gonna do

1:10

this? Like what's our go to market look

1:12

like? So I've had to do that so many times

1:14

that now I have a passion for doing

1:17

it the right way for early stage technology

1:19

companies. And I do feel like , I've

1:22

unlocked a bit of a cheat code here. <laugh> with , what I

1:25

do for VC backed tech companies.

1:27

The idea of if you have capital and

1:30

you want to go talk to your market, you

1:32

want to get net new conversations going. I

1:35

really Excel at building those software

1:37

systems, like a technology stack

1:40

with a whole process around why

1:42

building it that way with the whole process around

1:45

how we use that technology stack to generate

1:47

net new business for tech startups.

1:50

So the shortest way to say it

1:52

is I do outbound sales consulting. The

1:54

longest way to say it is, I'm a cold

1:56

calling geek with a lot of really specific

1:58

experience. I

2:00

only work with tech companies

2:02

committed to growth!

2:04

And this may be obvious, but most of your clients, I assume, are B2B

2:06

companies, right?

2:08

Yeah. That's all my experience. So

2:10

a hundred percent of my experience is B2B. And

2:13

I only work with B2B companies because I know

2:15

that motion very, very well. Uh

2:18

, The bottom line

2:20

of my methodology, I call it conversation

2:22

first. So I'm all about cold calling, the

2:26

way I tell that story is making what is

2:28

old new again, you know, the rise of

2:30

the silent sales floor, the rise of sales, automation,

2:33

sales, enablement, marketing, all

2:35

that's really, really great. If your

2:37

company invests in marketing the right way, you might

2:39

not have to do a lot of that ice cold outbound motion.

2:42

But the founders that work with me work

2:44

with me because they say, shoot , you're

2:46

right. Like my sales floor is

2:48

quiet. My sales reps don't know how

2:51

to talk the talk because they spend all their time taking

2:53

orders and we need to go make

2:55

it happen for ourselves. And that

2:57

is not easy. Right? Cold calling is

2:59

not anybody's favorite thing. And I , I

3:01

know that and I acknowledge that and I make it suck

3:04

less!

3:05

<laugh> so , I want to ask you a

3:07

bunch of questions about, your business and, who you

3:09

guys help and, why companies come to you. But

3:12

I'm curious about just your background real quick. You

3:14

know, it sounds like you specialize in going from

3:17

like zero to best friends, right. Or

3:19

at least that's the goal with whoever you're calling at,

3:22

what age did you figure out? Okay, I'm an extrovert

3:24

I'm very good at insinuating

3:26

myself or being charming or, you

3:29

know, just the skills that, that it

3:31

takes to be somebody who can get on the phone with somebody who

3:33

doesn't know who you are and, and then have

3:35

them sort of eating out of your hand in the

3:38

next five minutes.

3:39

That's wow. Really good question.

3:42

<laugh> because you know, what I

3:45

like to say about people that are good at outbound

3:47

sales and most like people

3:49

that end up kind of in sales, we are

3:51

the kids that growing up, like

3:53

your parents and your friends and people

3:55

would be like, man, you should be a lawyer. <laugh>

3:58

Look at the way you argue,

4:00

you point there, look at the way you get what you want all the

4:02

time. You should be a lawyer. And then like

4:05

the kids that end up in sales are the ones that don't

4:07

like school <laugh> that's me

4:09

. I didn't like school. I graduated

4:11

with a four year degree, but man, I didn't,

4:14

didn't turn around. As I walked out the door, I was like,

4:16

all right , I'm out, I'm done with school. But

4:18

, I noticed that I had the gift of the gab

4:21

. It took me until

4:23

my working years. I thought sales was a dirty

4:25

word. I , you gotta understand like

4:27

my background though, like my father, was a PhD in mechanical

4:29

engineering, my mother was

4:32

a stay at home Mom. I didn't

4:34

know any sales people . Like I knew nobody that

4:37

was a sales person . The only person I knew growing up that was a

4:39

salesperson was my friend's dad. And what

4:41

I knew was that he got laid off every

4:43

few years and like that he was constantly without

4:45

a job. And like my family didn't talk

4:48

positively about that. <laugh> right. Interesting

4:51

. Like , oh yeah , Bob got laid off again.

4:53

Mm-hmm <affirmative> and so that's what I thought sales

4:55

was. So when I got into college,

4:58

I did some internships. I

5:01

realized in the working world, like I interned at this

5:03

company called Invoca , they raised $30 million . It

5:05

was a tech startup in downtown Santa Barbara. That felt

5:07

like Silicon valley. It was really, really cool. Mm-hmm

5:10

<affirmative> and all the noise, all

5:12

the fun, all the energy in

5:15

the office was in the sales corner,

5:17

right. Where the 10 sales people were and they

5:19

were doing demos and banging gongs and

5:21

all that stuff. And then I , I was doing a customer success

5:23

internship with account management. And I

5:25

was like, dude, I am clicking in a spreadsheet

5:28

all day and sitting quietly

5:31

in an office while someone talking on a Polycom

5:34

to a customer about a problem. And I'm

5:36

looking out the glass door of

5:38

the office, like leaning over at

5:40

the sales pick , going, God, that looks fun. You

5:43

know? And then I just have that kind

5:45

of high energy attitude. So long story

5:47

short, you know, my first job out of college was I was

5:49

the first hire at a startup . I was the first hire,

5:52

so I got to do everything. But then I noticed

5:54

right away that I'm like, oh wow. A

5:56

lot of people struggle with sales . They

5:59

struggle with this. And they , they are just not like,

6:01

oh man, cold calling. No way. I'm like, yeah, I don't care. I'll

6:04

call them, sure you tell me there's money in it

6:06

for me. Let's go.

6:07

<laugh> that's actually , I mean, well, you

6:10

talked about, you know , sort of in your family sales,

6:12

having a bad rap, you know, it feels like it

6:14

was just, you know, not appreciated

6:17

the , the importance of it right. In , in a , in a business

6:19

like cuz cuz in , in certain businesses,

6:22

salesmen are like the, you know, they're the, the

6:24

, the fighter pilots, right? They're the , the golden boys. Um,

6:27

what , uh, you know, talk to me about businesses

6:29

that get this right? Who , who , what do they, what do they understand

6:32

about needing this role to really be sort

6:34

of like acing it for them ?

6:36

That's a great question. It's kind of a,I mean,

6:38

there's, there's , there's two little answers there. I think one of

6:40

the answers is, you know, my , my

6:42

perspective of sales growing up came

6:45

from not knowing

6:47

any sales people , right? Like, and my dad as

6:49

an engineer, loathed sales

6:52

people , because he never had to deal with them . And when he did, it

6:54

was like for a big project he's working on and then he hated

6:56

it. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. But as I've seen in

6:58

my consulting work and in the first few,

7:00

first six years of my career, when I was working w twos,

7:03

there, there tends to be a lack of respect

7:05

in general , around sales that, that

7:07

salespeople are a dime a dozen or that salespeople

7:10

are only coin operated

7:12

. Right. Like I , I have, I think Umbridge with

7:14

that idea too. Uh , when

7:16

I tell people that I'm a sales consultant,

7:18

a lot of people will say, oh cool, well, I'd

7:20

be happy to hire you commission only mm-hmm

7:23

<affirmative> and I'm like, whoa, no, I'm

7:25

a consultant in that. I teach process, structure and

7:27

strategy at the same level as your,

7:30

you know, project management consultant, the same level as

7:32

your engineering consultant, where

7:34

it's very strategic and my knowledge

7:36

is what you are buying mm-hmm <affirmative> right. So

7:39

I , I'm not coin operated . I don't

7:41

work commission only. And I , I actually

7:43

really, haven't made straight commission in probably

7:45

three years, three, four years. Everything

7:47

I do is project retainer based . So

7:50

I think , um, that's what I look for. I look

7:52

for organizations that are looking to get

7:54

a more pure definition of

7:57

how to do the job of sales.

7:59

Right. And if you're committed to that, a

8:01

guy like me is who you want to bring in.

8:03

Right. You wouldn't hire an HR person and say like, all right , we're

8:05

gonna pay you based on right. How

8:07

many, like if our, if our retention rate goes on , people

8:10

Stick ground . Yeah. Yeah. Okay . Exactly

8:12

interesting . And a lot of that, a lot of that is like unhealthy

8:15

culture around sales. We're

8:18

seeing this today, like I'm seeing this right now in,

8:21

you know, companies just slashing their sales departments,

8:23

layoffs are going left. Right. And sideways

8:26

man on LinkedIn, it's just a it's

8:28

doom and gloom on there. Uh , companies

8:30

are with the recession. I pending recession

8:32

and markets crashing and stuff like that. People

8:35

are just laying off the sales team. because it's like,

8:37

well, we could always hire some more

8:39

people that want to hunt for commission next time

8:41

around. So right . I think the companies

8:44

to finally answer your question is

8:47

what, what do companies, what differentiates

8:49

the company to get sales, right? Is

8:51

they focus on the process, right? And this

8:54

is, this is so true. I mean, John wooden

8:57

talks about this a lot, you know, the

8:59

, the greatest speakers of our time have talked about don't

9:02

be obsessed with the outcome, be obsessed with the process.

9:05

You know what I mean? Kobe Bryant

9:07

was big on this. The whole idea of like, I

9:09

gotta make a thousand free throws in practice so that

9:11

when I go to the game, it's no big deal. Like

9:13

a lot of companies tend to say like, I need revenue. I

9:16

need as fast as possible. Ah , hurry

9:18

up, close, close, close, Hey, Kevin, it's

9:20

been three weeks. Where's on my pipeline. You know,

9:23

an attitude like that, the companies

9:25

that get sales right are obsessed with

9:28

creating a process over time that

9:31

will produce reliable results, but

9:33

you gotta be patient. It's just like any

9:35

other discipline and it's not coin operated

9:38

.

9:38

Yeah. That's great. So that process is

9:41

some mix I would assume of technology and,

9:44

you know, best practices, just like, you know, the motions,

9:46

maybe just like discipline to stick with it

9:48

too , but like break those down for me. Like what

9:50

are some of the key technologies,key sort

9:54

of practices that you would implement when you go

9:56

into and maybe we keep it high level,

9:58

because I'm sure that each of your clients is a little different, right?

10:00

So, but what are some of the major things you , you tend

10:02

to see across companies that they need, you know, for

10:05

you to implement.

10:06

So it's, it's three areas, right?

10:08

And it's the same three areas that a lot

10:10

of consultants talk about. I hear

10:13

it a lot, but I also have an echo

10:15

chamber right around me, of people like me. But

10:18

the three areas that I help people

10:20

focus on really is process,

10:23

technology and people, all

10:26

three of those are really important, right? So

10:28

you can, you can kind of say it , the , the right order, in

10:30

my opinion is technology first, right?

10:33

Beause we want to be able to do more with less. And

10:35

particularly this is

10:37

a major key here, particularly in today's

10:40

market. If your company is trying to build a

10:42

serious go to market function and you

10:44

just lean on sales people to do

10:46

the old fashioned quote unquote elbow

10:49

grease of picking up the phone, 10 digits

10:51

at a time, or hunting for email addresses

10:53

one on one online, somewhere like

10:55

if you're not investing in a technology stack,

10:58

you're not gonna retain talent. Okay. So

11:00

we build the technology stack for an

11:02

efficient operation, but we

11:05

all know the biggest problem with software

11:07

is vaporware. The idea of, I get

11:09

sold a bill of goods. I buy the software. It's

11:11

expensive. No one ever really uses it to its

11:13

potential. So what I do is I help I

11:16

say, I call my shot. I say, Hey, you use these

11:18

platforms. Here's how we're gonna use them. Here's

11:20

my entire like user guide as

11:23

to how I help teams get these platforms

11:26

to sing and work. And then

11:28

we train the person because there, there

11:31

is an element of sales in particular

11:33

where the performer matters,

11:35

right? I saw

11:39

top gun last night, but , and

11:41

not to give it away for anybody, no spoilers. But the

11:43

, the big line in top gun is , it's not the

11:45

plane It's the pilot. That's my same

11:48

pitch for sales technology. Right.

11:50

It's not the plane it's the pilot. Yeah. You can go buy

11:52

all the excellent tech stuff. But if

11:54

you don't have , uh , a rep

11:56

that understands how to have those

11:59

customer conversations and a rep that

12:01

understands how to operate the tech in general, it's

12:04

not gonna work out very well. Right. So it's people

12:06

,process and technology and that's

12:08

what the magic of Hopp Consulting Group. I help people

12:11

blend those in a way that actually works.

12:13

How do I know I've done it, <laugh> done it a

12:15

bunch. Right .

12:16

Right , right, right. Yeah. So make this, make this a little

12:18

bit more concrete for us. Like what, what is

12:21

a general process for this?

12:23

Like, you know, you start with maybe prospecting, right? You

12:25

find the people you want to call, then you call them, then you, then

12:27

you, what? Like, and if I get the first two things wrong,

12:29

like, or it starts before the prospecting,

12:32

like tell me that too. Like what are

12:34

the steps? What are the major steps here?

12:36

The major steps are you have to have a

12:38

place to keep track of who you're reaching

12:40

out to when and what you said, which is

12:43

a CRM, right? I don't

12:45

know many people that skip that step, which is good news,

12:47

right? So you gotta have a

12:49

CRM. You want to try and build your tech stack

12:51

around the customer record

12:54

because at the end of the day, the

12:56

most sustainable thing you can do for

12:59

long term growth is to respect the

13:01

customer experience. And the customer experience starts the

13:03

minute that you decide you want to sell to them . It

13:05

doesn't start the day that they

13:07

become a customer. Because if they're getting spammy

13:10

emails or, you know, bunk emails,

13:12

or they're getting lots of cold calls that are not

13:16

effective all the problems

13:18

that tend to happen with poorly trained sales

13:20

teams, then they become

13:23

worse customers. They're not happy, or they

13:25

never become a customer. Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so CRM

13:27

first , data is really

13:29

important. A lot of people tend to go cheap on data.

13:31

What I mean by data is prospect data. Like

13:34

I want George's cell phone number. I don't

13:36

want Georgia's wife's cell phone number. So

13:38

if we get a CRM, we invest

13:40

in a data source to get relatively

13:43

accurate data. Then we need a productivity

13:46

tool. The sales acceleration

13:48

space is bigger than ever, right? And , and

13:50

I'm talking the outreach, I'm talking sales

13:53

loft, I'm talking, Zant , I'm talking outplay,

13:56

I'm talking Apollo. I can go on and

13:58

on and on. There are all these platforms that are

14:00

designed to help a salesperson, take

14:03

a prospect through a buying journey from,

14:05

okay, I wanna sell to George. I'm gonna put George

14:07

in this sequence where I, as a

14:09

salesperson, I'm gonna measure my productivity. And

14:13

every day when I log in, it says, okay, cool. You called

14:15

George yesterday. Send him an email today. Okay.

14:17

You emailed them yesterday, send him a LinkedIn message

14:19

today. Like it helps you stay productive. Mm-hmm

14:22

<affirmative> I can't stress this enough. Like maybe this is the

14:24

biggest takeaway of this point is if

14:26

you aren't using technology for

14:29

sales, acceleration around productivity,

14:31

you are losing <laugh> in 2022

14:34

sales engagementTech is

14:37

the standard. You need this stuff. I

14:39

don't work with clients that aren't committed to buying

14:41

this stuff. Mm-hmm <affirmative> , it's just, it's

14:44

becoming table stakes . It's as essential

14:46

as CRM, you know, the CRM

14:48

had the same revolution in the early two thousands,

14:51

where are like, holy cow, we need to buy Salesforce. Like,

14:53

what is this? How do we even use this? You know, <laugh>

14:55

. Yeah . So that, that

14:57

is my, my big takeaway there. And then,

14:59

you know, once you have those base layers

15:02

laid down, we need to establish a

15:04

messaging strategy and a , and a base

15:06

go to market . Right.

15:08

You know, I , I guess I I'd be curious,

15:10

you know, you , you mentioned, you said cold calling and,

15:12

and I wonder if you meant that literally, like, are , is it always

15:15

a phone call or, you know, I guess

15:17

the larger question here is, in what ways

15:19

have, you know, technology and the , the

15:21

way we live these days changed the

15:24

methods you use to reach out to people. And, and

15:26

where do you see it going from here? Like what , what is the future

15:28

of, of outbound selling?

15:31

Well, that's a big question. So

15:33

<laugh> , uh , so

15:36

technology has made

15:38

a salesperson's life a hundred times easier.

15:41

Now, why is that? Because in the , let's

15:43

say the years , 2003 , 2005

15:46

, whatever, I'm gonna have to look someone

15:48

up, I might have some, you know, rudimentary

15:51

type database CRM, then

15:54

I'm gonna call their number that I find

15:56

by hand because dialing tech , wasn't a big

15:58

deal then. And this whole time,

16:01

I don't really have a way to visualize what

16:03

this person looks like, what they

16:05

might care about, you know, where they went to

16:07

school, you know, where they , what , where , where was

16:09

their last job that's called LinkedIn.

16:12

<laugh> LinkedIn is the

16:14

Bible for sales people . It is the

16:16

essential, the greatest

16:19

gift that sales people have ever gotten. Because

16:22

at the end of the day, in the most rudimentary

16:24

form, sales is people selling to people and

16:27

trust is sales. People

16:30

do not buy for people. They don't trust. You

16:32

can't get someone's trust. They don't know

16:35

you. And they that's. The biggest barrier

16:37

to outbound sales is they don't know you from Adam. They

16:39

don't know who you are. So with

16:41

LinkedIn, we get a chance to create a personal

16:43

brand, to create an image, to create a, Hey

16:46

look, I'm a real person, just like you. I

16:48

have thoughts, feelings, family. Don't

16:50

be rude. You can trust me. We went to the

16:52

same school. We like the same

16:55

things. We have the same sort of opinions. So

16:57

LinkedIn is really critical. But the

17:00

other important part to your question about the

17:03

future of outbound sales, well,

17:05

geez , it is getting harder and harder

17:07

every day . And the biggest tech

17:10

companies in the world are actively working

17:12

day in and day out to make outbound sales

17:15

harder. Apple has a feature

17:17

that the , your iPhone will

17:19

not ring. If I'm not already

17:21

in your address book, that kills

17:24

me. <laugh> that kills everybody, right? That

17:26

kills anybody. That's trying to do cold calling Google.

17:29

And , uh , apple also have email

17:31

features that anonymize your emails

17:33

and create burner emails within seconds to

17:35

get lead forms and other things like

17:37

that. So you never, you can start to

17:40

, to be much more anonymous as you go

17:42

around the world and makes it harder to

17:44

tell who might be interested in things. So all

17:46

that to say it's getting harder

17:48

and harder, which means it's

17:51

gonna take more attempts. Now,

17:54

call it an email, call it a LinkedIn

17:56

connect, call it a phone call, more

17:59

attempts per person to

18:01

get the same conversion rate over time. Like

18:03

that is the definition of harder for outbound sales.

18:06

So like the big blanket message

18:08

there is you have to

18:10

have technology and process to

18:14

level up against this. Otherwise

18:16

you're simply gonna be playing a losing game, right?

18:19

If you're not using an auto dialer, you're gonna lose.

18:21

If you're not using technology to

18:24

cleanse your domain, use proxy domains,

18:27

warm up your inbox, do

18:29

email deliverability the right

18:31

way you're gonna lose. So

18:34

that's, that's kind of the , and it it's happening

18:36

today, but it's only gonna get worse.

18:38

Yeah. It makes me think about last week I got an email from

18:40

someone and it said, Hey, first name <laugh>

18:43

in the subject line . Then I was like their using technology,

18:46

but like, you're trying to, you're moving too fast.

18:48

Maybe, you're trying to hit more names per minute

18:51

than , you know , because it's harder.

18:53

Oh , I promise you, there

18:55

was a sales trip by the end of that, that went Duh, you

18:58

know , like , gosh, darn it . I hit send

19:00

on the campaign before I had it flushed

19:02

out. So you feel bad, but

19:05

Yep . Yep . This is great. Uh, tell

19:07

us a little bit about your podcast. I want to give you a chance to

19:10

plug that and tell people where they can find it and where they can find more

19:12

information about Hopp consulting group. Um, because

19:15

you know, I , I think man, just everything

19:17

, you know, I , I imagine that working with you, I've not worked

19:19

with you is, is very, very useful. You

19:21

, you also have just a ton of ton of content out there.

19:23

And so, you know, which I , which I imagine is part of a

19:25

, a healthy, you know, healthy sales pipeline. So , tell us

19:28

where to get into your top of funnel. Basically.

19:31

Absolutely. So LinkedIn is the

19:33

number one place. Like I mentioned, I'm build , I'm pretty

19:36

committed to building a , a nice personal brand there.

19:38

I have a podcast where I'm,

19:41

I'm generally just obsessed with people's stories. I

19:43

think there's a world where I want

19:46

to be Joe Rogan one day, like Joe, Rogan's

19:48

got the best job of all time, his podcast. He

19:50

literally just takes cool. People, sits

19:53

down with them and talks for hours and, and people

19:55

listen to every minute of it. So like, that's my

19:57

dream job. <laugh>, I'm

19:59

a psychology major in school. I'm fascinated by

20:01

people. So my podcast is

20:04

called the sales career podcast. If

20:06

you're in sales, it will be valuable for

20:08

you period, full stop. It's it's really

20:11

interesting stuff from some of the, the brightest

20:13

minds and leaders in sales technology and

20:16

in the SaaS space, very specifically

20:18

software space. So highly recommend

20:20

you check that out. You can go to Hoppconsultinggroup.com if

20:24

you want to learn more about my services. I

20:27

have an online course that I'm

20:30

about to launch. And we mentioned cold calling

20:32

a few times here I am a cold calling freak. I'm

20:34

all about it. And I am launching

20:36

a course called cold calling 1 0 1 . So

20:39

this is everything you need to know to

20:41

have a modern approach to outbound

20:43

cold calling so that it produces.

20:46

And so that it is something that you

20:48

don't hate. Like that's my, my big

20:50

mission statement with the course is cold calling

20:52

sucks. I'm trying to help it, help

20:54

you make it suck less, right? So

20:57

that course is , is really foundational knowledge. I

20:59

give it all away. It's 49 bucks , check

21:01

it out.

21:02

Got it. And that is on your landing page. I'm

21:04

looking at it right now. And, so you can go and log

21:06

in and sign up to get started.

21:09

So very easy. Kevin, this is

21:11

really useful. Thank you for the time today. We really enjoyed

21:14

hearing about how you do what you do.

21:16

Thank you . I appreciate you having me on!