0:00

Presented. By the National Association

0:02

of Realtors. Omar Latour

0:04

is the publisher of The Wall Street Journal

0:06

and the Ceo of Dow Jones. One.

0:09

Responsibility that he did not expect when he

0:11

took this job. And Twenty Twenty. Was.

0:13

Negotiating the release of a hostage

0:15

held by Vladimir Putin. On

0:20

March Twenty Ninth, Twenty Twenty three,

0:22

Evan Gosh Cove which one of

0:24

the journal's correspondence covering Russia, was

0:26

meeting with a source at a

0:28

steakhouse when Fsb agents arrested him

0:30

and charged him with espionage and

0:32

allegation that he and the Journal

0:34

said was absurd. The.

0:37

Us government agreed. In less than

0:39

two weeks time the State Department

0:41

declared that Evan was wrongfully detained

0:43

which is an official status. The

0:45

commits the by demonstration to work

0:48

for his release. The

0:50

tour has played a key role in

0:52

the legal and diplomatic effort to free

0:55

Evan. He's worked with the Biden ministration,

0:57

foreign governments, and through private channels to

0:59

figure out what exactly poodle wants to

1:01

secure the Wall Street Journal reporters freedom.

1:05

I spoke with the tour earlier this week. To

1:07

learn the inside story of this effort,

1:10

we discussed how the shadow of basketball

1:12

star Brittney Griner detainment in Russia is

1:14

influencing talks to bring. I've been home

1:17

what Evans detention means for Paul Whalen,

1:19

who has been imprisoned in Russia since

1:21

December twenty eighteen and is the only

1:24

other American they're considered by the Us

1:26

to be wrongfully detained. I'll. Sue

1:28

Karma Shiva, a Russian American journalist who

1:30

was arrested by Russian authorities in October.

1:32

Twenty Twenty Three is fighting for that

1:35

status. We. Also discussed why the

1:37

Russian hitman buddy him crass a cough

1:39

who is serving a life sentence in

1:41

Germany for murder. May. Be the

1:43

key to unlocking a deal with put and. And

1:46

whether the reports of a joint Us German

1:48

effort that would have traded Crass a car

1:50

for Evan Wheel and and the late Oleksyn

1:52

of all knee. Were. Accurate. And

1:56

we talked about how the Twenty Twenty Four

1:58

election. May. Affect and. See.

2:02

I'm a loser and this is play Looked

2:04

he does. Let's

2:16

talk about the efforts to get

2:18

him back room or start at

2:20

the current moment in time and

2:23

then will serve backfill. Some of

2:25

the attempts are here to the

2:27

extent that you can talk about

2:29

them. What is the current status

2:32

of the Us government's efforts to

2:34

get him back to the U

2:36

S? Without. Speaking for

2:39

the the administration and

2:41

in any form and

2:43

I would characterize it

2:45

as a very intense

2:47

effort to get as

2:49

it back there. Are

2:51

people dedicated to situations like

2:53

these? An interstate apartment? A

2:55

Special Presidential Envoy for Hostage

2:58

Affairs as a unit within

3:00

the State Department that concentrates

3:02

on cases like these Not

3:04

necessarily run press freedom, but

3:06

and around Americans who are

3:08

roughly detained. And there are

3:11

many senior administration officials who

3:13

have commented a president of

3:15

course has commented on the

3:17

case Her: there is just

3:19

a lot of activities. For

3:22

the White House and to

3:24

State Department and then many

3:26

many others who may have

3:28

the peripheral involvement or an

3:30

occasional involvement. And thus and

3:32

so. What? Has been very

3:35

impressive and it in the past

3:37

here as how people have coalesced

3:39

around her, this cause and how

3:42

so many people are giving it

3:44

their all into that said know

3:46

the outcome is sort of binary.

3:49

he's either free or is not

3:51

and so so far. As

3:53

to question has. Has

3:56

enough been done? Well, We'll know that

3:58

when he walks free. Yeah.

4:01

Omar, one of the eye opening pieces

4:04

are reporting did that digital had this

4:06

week. About this case is some of

4:08

the back story that has been in

4:10

the eater about one of the potential.

4:13

Complicated prisoner swaps to

4:16

get him out that

4:18

involves a novel knee

4:21

before he died that

4:23

involves this couldn't. Friend.

4:26

An assassin who is in

4:28

prison in Germany. Vadim. Cross.

4:30

A cop. And there's been

4:33

a lot of intrigue surrounding

4:35

that potential deal. Can. You

4:37

tell us what you're comfortable telling

4:40

us about what happened there. Well.

4:44

Sir. Over the past few

4:46

months medicine the past year,

4:48

there's been many forays into.

4:51

The. Realm of try to free

4:53

up and coming up with scenarios

4:56

am and there are different channels

4:58

for that sorcerers to the publicity

5:00

around oven that keeps him in

5:02

a news and as helps with

5:05

making sure that have s really

5:07

sort of fight for his release

5:09

as a priority was the administration

5:11

and there's so many competing priorities

5:14

at that happen. Then there's the

5:16

official diplomacy that that takes place

5:18

that that I'm in my view

5:20

would include. Signal said at

5:23

the President of the White House

5:25

might said publicly but also a

5:27

lot that happens behind the scenes

5:29

bilaterally. I'm on a multilateral basis

5:31

and then there is what I

5:34

would call private upon the see

5:36

We have retained a law firm

5:38

that has among it's a many

5:40

specialties the hostas affairs and so

5:42

creating. An additional channels at

5:44

to find a solution because you

5:47

never know and cases like these

5:49

your where the eventual solution is

5:51

gonna come from Am and so

5:53

it's important for us at a

5:55

loss or channel as an institution

5:57

but also I think for demonstration

5:59

to have all these basket work

6:02

simultaneously so if that sounds complicated

6:04

as because it is and I

6:06

think some of the reporting that

6:08

you've read that I can't really

6:10

dissect on I can't really comment

6:12

on blow by blow so reflects

6:14

at a minimum at that. These.

6:18

Cases. And it a potential

6:20

solutions often happen and very

6:22

muddled terrain and very blurry

6:24

circumstances and whether just are

6:26

a lot of variables Libby

6:28

as he is not obviously

6:30

I'm you know, your professional,

6:32

you know can say anything

6:34

that would jeopardize this effort

6:36

in any way. But do

6:38

you feel like the German

6:41

government has been a good

6:43

partner in this effort to

6:45

feel like the German government

6:47

has understood how important. This.

6:49

Cases. To the administration.

6:52

For. You like them to do more. Well.

6:55

It's. We. Want everybody to

6:57

do more and tell she's out right?

6:59

And so until his out not enough

7:02

has been done by anyone and and

7:04

so that goes for a for all

7:06

of us and says so we're in

7:08

good company. A but we're confident that

7:10

at some point he will be released

7:12

I think. Under specific

7:14

Germany question. And

7:16

on this private diplomacy

7:18

pass, we. We. Have

7:21

with met a lot of

7:23

people out from a lotta

7:25

different countries. We have travelled

7:27

wes Avon's parents to different

7:29

spots the including a public

7:31

place to Davos recently where

7:33

they had a chance to

7:35

meet with said world leaders

7:37

and so without commenting specifically

7:39

eyes the Germans. And

7:42

we've had a chance. A book

7:44

contains a takes the opportunity to

7:47

to meet Wes. World. Leaders:

7:49

How for the parents to meet with

7:51

want leaders or or lawyers to meet

7:53

with world leaders and addition to whatever

7:56

the Us Administration does on that front

7:58

Am and I think. Wherever

8:00

and whenever we've done that, there is

8:03

ban. A. Deep understanding of

8:05

the importance of this problem

8:07

and out that it's Of

8:09

course when faced with a

8:11

parents who are they are

8:13

heroic and and resilient and

8:15

inspiring you realize and a

8:17

scene senior figures on the

8:19

world stage realize it's a

8:21

how much. Pain. This

8:24

causes for one family. Them

8:27

in addition. I. Think

8:29

there's a realization that this

8:31

reverberates. This case reverberates even beyond

8:33

one individual that dad the

8:35

wrongful incarceration of a journalist

8:37

and has wider implications. Very negative

8:40

implications for press freedom. And so

8:42

I do think that we've

8:44

seen that awareness and take hold

8:47

and with World Beaters and and

8:49

lesser Europe and around the

8:51

world and certainly also in

8:53

the U S. I

8:55

once asked you that one of

8:57

the stranger parts of the last

9:00

year and this efforts and that

9:02

is Tucker Carlson's interview with Flat

9:04

a mere couldn't where he raised

9:07

on releasing as in what did

9:09

you in the Journal learn from

9:11

that exchange. And.

9:14

Was it useful to add else? Of

9:16

course, if you had any contact with

9:18

Tucker, a reporter certain had contact with

9:21

him after cause the journals, reports and

9:23

details but did he reach out at

9:25

all or did he just take it

9:27

on his own initiative to mention added

9:29

I can't speak to him home. Tucker.

9:32

It may have reached out to are

9:34

not fab the was I think a

9:37

public awareness and and something else and

9:39

awareness in this building that he was

9:41

going to have that interview and I

9:44

think that was widely announced. An Eye

9:46

Sinks. Or at least I was

9:48

under the impression that that the topic might come

9:50

up. At least

9:52

to me to wasn't a director across

9:54

but or any notification of that sort.

9:56

that nor where we seeking that per

9:58

se. More focused on

10:01

we I think we were more focused on

10:03

put in response to their switch where did

10:05

you make of it. Well.

10:08

A reinforced a notion that that

10:10

this was something very deliberate and

10:12

that's that there was some for

10:14

thought that was no surprise to

10:17

this question or in the answer

10:19

didn't seem so spontaneous. Off to

10:21

costs as weirdly I mean I'm

10:23

getting into he was weirdly. Honest.

10:26

About it Or sort of like there was no. Bs.

10:29

About what was going on here in where am

10:31

I reading that incorrectly. Yeah.

10:33

I guess. I'm. In a this

10:35

I as honest as not a word

10:37

that I would use and said yes

10:40

ny get a night I poisoned so

10:42

so I think. You. Could see

10:44

as at that moment I think so

10:46

did transactional nature and so I think

10:48

of it right so is it was

10:50

a naked for trail of said the

10:53

motivation yeah my view and so did

10:55

it to spend x four ways am

10:57

not that I could tell or and

10:59

and haven't gotten incarcerated Got it? So

11:01

what a weird way. it wasn't like

11:03

a gave you a little bit more

11:06

optimism like okay this guy's just looking

11:08

for a deal and we've gotta find

11:10

the deal that will satisfy this this

11:12

lunatic. My know that

11:14

you're in the mountains where, well, Hostage

11:17

taking, Your. Works like this to

11:19

begin with, so there's nothing you do that already. Yeah,

11:21

yeah, yeah, that this is. This is the whole game.

11:24

right? Yeah, we take somebody. it's and we

11:26

want a ransom or a trade or

11:28

something in return. I think it's off

11:30

by this point. Know nobody's pretending that

11:32

that's not what this is about. This

11:34

no pretension on the Russian side, in

11:36

the in the privacy of these negotiations

11:38

that sorry Evans, have you know really

11:40

important the criminal in our system and

11:42

we just eat? Oh, we don't mess

11:44

around with their trading them away. I'm

11:46

not saying that and I can't speak

11:49

to specifically what the Russians have said

11:51

or or not said. But what I

11:53

can say is who said. I would

11:55

dismiss and he says portrayal that this

11:57

is anything other than they're seeking a

11:59

trade. It comes on the back of

12:01

that another trade at as be made

12:03

that yelling at Brittney Griner if this

12:05

is a little that is truthful that

12:07

comes out of the Kremlin these days

12:09

and so I think it has to

12:11

be seen. So. Even yes,

12:13

applause I frank comments like that

12:16

have to be seen in that

12:18

transactional at light and not in

12:20

any different way that there was

12:22

no surprise like oh, Release.

12:25

Is gonna lead to it a deal

12:28

and that can be successful says. Yes,

12:30

Of course, that was nothing new

12:32

to anyone who had been involved

12:34

and and the case or anyone

12:36

who that unlike me, who works

12:39

on hostage cases like these all

12:41

the time and that didn't seem

12:43

to be anything new in that.

12:57

We were you when you

12:59

learned that he had been

13:01

arrested That are March Twenty

13:03

nights. Twenty. Twenty Three Yeah,

13:05

I was in South Africa. Yeah,

13:07

there was a little period that.

13:10

Proceed. At that moment where

13:12

I got a phone call

13:14

from my head of Hr

13:16

and had a security saying

13:19

that. And. We may have

13:21

some did difficult for news of

13:23

my be a very difficult situation

13:25

a reporter and Russia did not

13:27

show up at the appointed time

13:29

and that was really just a

13:32

moment because we have a and

13:34

like. Many major news

13:36

organizations it as a strict the

13:38

security protocol where if you go

13:40

out on something censored as as

13:43

sensitive for reporting assignment or have

13:45

find yourself had a danger zone

13:47

there's a significant amount of planning

13:49

that happens and there are have

13:52

been appointed times when you check

13:54

can and does depending on the

13:56

the situation might be some tracking

13:58

and so. There you have

14:01

that for a reason, but when

14:03

than somebody doesn't show up. Which

14:05

was this very first moment of.

14:07

We. Had the saga ask for me at least.

14:10

And. That was alarming. And

14:12

that initially I suppose you didn't know. Why

14:14

he missed his chicken. Know in

14:17

a new hope for the best of

14:19

course and a could be many reasons

14:21

as to why and if someone doesn't

14:24

check in and. But.

14:26

Then another second point was messed.

14:29

I believe and a I might be skipping

14:31

some steps here because it's a year ago,

14:33

which is. Terrible, of

14:35

course, and it's own right, But. says.

14:38

L A little bit later became

14:40

clear that a second checkpoint had

14:42

beaten best. Am. And

14:45

Evan did not show up

14:47

at his apartments and as

14:49

a some hours later and

14:51

so. We. Have went from

14:53

a suspicion that that something had

14:55

gone wrong to sedate and ever

14:58

stronger suspicion that something had gone

15:00

wrong. and there were also at

15:02

that point some rumors are at

15:05

least some noise that that had

15:07

breached me indirectly. am. That.

15:10

He. Might have been arrested

15:12

then. He has Some

15:14

hours later there was at

15:16

a confirmation of some sorts

15:18

that that happen. And.

15:20

That's. For. Me: To.

15:23

Next. Morning very early morning and in

15:26

the Us and on the East coast.

15:29

The. Fsb put out a statement.

15:31

To Fsb Stain was the

15:34

first official word that was

15:36

the first official word with

15:38

context they're as to what

15:40

this was an and that

15:43

contains this as the on

15:45

i spam lie immediately and.

15:48

You're. When you hear. And.

15:50

Not a hostage situation that somebody has

15:52

been taken or any precarious situation that

15:55

you go into out and it out

15:57

on the field. maybe at first. Your

16:00

instinct is like let's address

16:02

stairs. In. The quiet. Let's

16:04

have the conversations that we need at

16:06

the top right? already. Sweats were out

16:09

in in this case may be with

16:11

an Embassy yours and or with the

16:13

right team. But. This got

16:15

tossed out into the open right

16:17

away and said it was never

16:20

really a chance to to have

16:22

that conversation which is very different

16:24

than and maybe some other cases

16:26

where you're people were arrested and

16:28

that was able to sit greater

16:30

period at least outwardly of of

16:32

uncertainty And but here thinks. That

16:34

so scared and deliberate nature of

16:36

what what has happened. it got.

16:39

Very deliberately pushed out into the

16:41

world where they say clear message

16:43

from the Russian Federation. Let me

16:46

ask you about before that moment

16:48

to quit things one what with

16:50

are signs of the deteriorating situation

16:53

for journalists in Russia. I mean

16:55

we all know was going on

16:57

in the world but was evin

17:00

picking up on that were your

17:02

editors? Was the newsroom aware? that's

17:04

suddenly. Things. Was shifting into

17:06

a much more dangerous points for western

17:09

journalists They are is could talk about

17:11

that a little bit and and to

17:13

the story that they were journal published

17:15

today wednesday as well as were talking

17:18

is really of you know an amazing

17:20

piece of journalism and we're. Very.

17:22

Intimately aware of all the details that

17:25

story but it talked about how have

17:27

proven was looking for a new pond

17:29

at this point in time and I'm

17:31

just curious if that was something that

17:33

was on anyone's radar back then were?

17:36

that's all something we kind of realize

17:38

in hindsight, Yeah,

17:41

I sick. When.

17:44

You read that somebody has been

17:47

falsely accused of something. You understand

17:49

that there is some motivation to

17:51

drive that, whether that is at

17:53

the same ang western press or

17:55

whether it's something else altogether. And

17:58

but I think. The

18:00

at that moment a a year

18:02

ago. And. We were. Institutionally

18:06

obviously aware that. It

18:08

did. Circumstances and in Russia

18:10

and and also and some

18:13

other places around the world

18:15

where. Just. More difficult

18:18

for reporters and when people

18:20

are sent out into the

18:22

field is it's with their

18:24

consent with an elaborate discussion

18:26

with security and so we

18:28

had been monitoring. It's that

18:30

we know that there was

18:32

a. The. A methodical approach

18:34

to hostage taking. As it

18:37

looks today, it's easy to

18:39

say with hindsight have now,

18:41

but. The. Situation.

18:44

Did. Not seem accidental, The.

18:47

Other wrongfully detained American in the

18:49

Russian system is Paul Well and.

18:52

How much to of the

18:55

folks like yourself who are

18:57

advocating on Evans behalf coordinates

19:00

with your counterparts who are

19:02

advocating on Paul Allen's The

19:04

Half. The

19:07

first off my heart goes out to.

19:09

A ball and and pulse

19:12

family and save then at

19:14

as far away way too

19:16

long five years am it.

19:19

We want him to be

19:21

released and Spam ugly Think

19:23

it's incredibly important out our

19:25

task here as to focus

19:28

on our colleagues. The government

19:30

is focusing on a broader

19:32

set of hostage situations. I

19:35

do think that with the

19:37

spotlight dem we've deliberately put

19:39

on. Oven and. Dad.

19:42

Has been so much support including from people

19:44

like yourself. Pam. There's

19:46

been over the past year

19:49

has a greater awareness of

19:51

the hostage situations that exist

19:53

in Russia and even elsewhere.

19:56

and so a in that

19:58

sense the oven. Situation.

20:00

When we talk about it that

20:03

are implicitly that of course pretense

20:05

also to paul as well as

20:08

to also who recently caught apprehended

20:10

there for her also web but

20:12

seems like a bogus reasons. Sadly,

20:16

The court recently

20:19

extended evans imprisonments

20:21

by three more

20:23

months. What's. Your

20:25

reading of how. The.

20:29

Twenty. Twenty Four. Presidential.

20:32

Campaign and political situation in

20:35

the United States may or

20:37

may not play into these.

20:40

Efforts. To. Get

20:42

up and back. I think at this

20:44

point that will be speculative. So we

20:46

we have. Had bipartisan

20:48

support for Avon's release

20:50

and that has been

20:52

very consistent as throughout

20:54

am. I. Take the extension

20:57

that was made clear this

20:59

week and through June thirtieth.

21:01

It has the air of

21:03

sounding official, but all these

21:05

things are really arbitrary and

21:07

could I think and parallel

21:09

with the official legal system

21:11

could be decided to it

21:13

separately if the Kremlin wanna

21:15

to speed things up or

21:17

slow things down. So I

21:19

mainly look at these extensions

21:21

as a the language of

21:23

the Kremlin than whether they.

21:25

Have what they want or not

21:27

And so this means that at

21:30

least for the next few months

21:32

theoretically am. They. Don't yet have what

21:34

they want? One. Other

21:36

thing about the previous attempts:

21:38

successful attempts to get wrongfully

21:40

intend Americans had a Russia.

21:42

What did she learn from

21:44

those episodes? Where did you

21:46

learn from their Brittney Griner

21:48

episode and she was swapped

21:50

for have and notorious arms

21:52

dealer Viktor Bout And be

21:54

this is all new to

21:56

you. You were thrust into

21:58

this assumes you. The been a

22:00

situation like this give a background as

22:02

a journalist but not as a a

22:05

hostage negotiators. yeah and I'm a to

22:07

be clear and for those yards are

22:09

typically or I'm not a hostage negotiator,

22:11

faucets a driveway or sigh yes day

22:13

as as someone that's a you know

22:15

in the middle of a this crisis

22:17

and trying to get your you reporter

22:19

bag yeah I'd an answer to this.

22:21

Very. Different situation birds do. two

22:24

decades ago, so we did happen

22:26

situation I did not and twelve

22:28

when Daniel Pearl that was taken

22:30

hostage and and I and so

22:32

they're as an acute awareness institutionally

22:34

here at that. You have to

22:37

take these situations incredibly seriously. So

22:39

it's I think that was one

22:41

lesson that is no guarantee for

22:43

the outcome necessarily. And so you

22:45

have to give it your all.

22:47

And I think that led to

22:50

a very speedy organization around this.

22:52

Where we we sat up to him various

22:54

teams are com steam a A, A, Legal

22:56

team in the U S, a Legal Team

22:58

of Russia, and a lot of other different

23:01

channels so that's one a think on a

23:03

griner case. One conclusion was that. Putting.

23:05

A spotlight on a situation like

23:08

this helps it helps with their

23:10

prioritization and say out in the

23:12

immediate aftermath of of of interest

23:14

me at Be did have the

23:17

chance to learn from people who

23:19

had gone through this and and

23:21

so that was I think an

23:23

important element on a think that

23:26

has been a dominant theme for

23:28

the past year to make sure

23:30

that as the world is. Just

23:33

changing as seemingly every day and

23:35

a big events taking place and

23:38

that having that voice having that's

23:40

spotlight perhaps his case so that

23:43

was an awareness and then

23:45

I think to transactional nature of

23:47

the of into griner case having

23:49

a a major arms dealer traded

23:52

against at a basketball player. Of

23:55

renounce. That shows. Was.

23:57

it across nature of

23:59

of. A situation

24:01

like the South I think. Those.

24:04

Lessons and and a few other

24:06

things am quite quickly find a

24:08

way into our bloodstream. I am

24:10

as we've tried to get organized

24:13

around as I think. Having.

24:16

It has added a realization that

24:19

you need to stay in close

24:21

contact West's family with the the

24:23

government ah and brain to bear

24:26

to anyone you really know who

24:28

might influence to situation. So bring

24:30

in all your resources. I think

24:32

those are all. Lessons

24:35

at least in hindsight that I think we

24:37

picked up or we found out along the

24:39

way. Online. When I

24:41

ask you one last question it's and thank

24:43

you for doing this in. The last thing

24:45

is just too to explain to listeners who

24:48

haven't been following this case. One.

24:50

Why? Should they care about this?

24:53

Why is this important? And

24:55

what can people do is they

24:57

care about this and want to

24:59

help. With. This case is

25:02

important because it pertains to one man's

25:04

freedom. And that matters,

25:07

Haven't as a journalist and.

25:10

He was just doing his job. He.

25:13

Was arrested for doing his job. And.

25:17

When. That can happen and nobody says anything

25:20

about it. That. Has

25:22

a tremendous negative impact

25:24

on society on free

25:26

press. His

25:29

arrest. In my view

25:32

that it was a

25:34

direct attempts to. Suppress.

25:37

Press. Freedom to send a signal bags

25:40

and you are not safe as a

25:42

journalist and and Russia. If

25:45

we last I go go by

25:47

unnoticed if we don't say anything

25:49

about it, If we don't fight

25:52

for for evans release that and.

25:55

Signals to Russia that this is

25:57

okay behavior. That makes as

25:59

and each. It's for me, a. Reliable

26:02

information to get to Russia even

26:04

even more difficult, but I believe

26:07

it can also be contagious. And

26:09

and that's this may give

26:12

other. Dictators strongman at

26:14

the idea that hey, there's

26:16

another way to deal with

26:18

press that you don't like

26:20

and that is just by

26:22

arresting them or by taking

26:24

harsher measures. And. So

26:26

what can you do about as at

26:29

I think have this awareness. And

26:31

follow the case. I. Think

26:33

it does matter to and.

26:36

Talk about it to your

26:38

friends. Talk. Talk About Press

26:40

Freedom To the people you

26:42

know. Talk. To your

26:44

elected officials about it and.

26:47

He. I often get this question like doesn't

26:50

really matter but the if you were

26:52

that ten at every little bit helps

26:54

here to support as ceases dead free

26:56

process a good thing. And.

26:58

At Society needs that more than

27:00

ever And so her in fighting

27:02

for Avon's release A think we

27:04

can all make a statement for

27:07

him and but also for society

27:09

at large. Thank. You

27:11

very much will said hence

27:13

I know. The. Journalists doing everything

27:15

they can him so he was

27:17

should be commended for the efforts

27:19

that he he was. Put.

27:21

Forward and in the last year to get

27:24

him out. And damn. We. Hope that

27:26

happens very very soon. And thank you for

27:28

taking the time to talk to us without

27:30

this. Really appreciated our yeah thank you for

27:33

your support and thank you to everybody at

27:35

a journal and media and beyond was contributed

27:37

to To Fight For Israel. And.

27:43

As Or Show or Producers Care Tabor

27:45

our senior producer is out skinny I'm

27:47

right lizard host and executive preserve deep

27:49

ties I music is by the mysterious

27:51

Break Master Cylinder. Thank you to Joe

27:53

Dobkin for feel trapped in a New

27:55

York. Doesn't. You think about the

27:57

show of the night. Hearing deep dive? you can.

28:00

Email me at Our lives are at

28:02

politico.com and the subscribed to play with

28:04

Deep Dive where ever you get your

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podcasts. Thanks for listening.