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1:04

Hey, this is DeRay. Welcome to Positive to People. In

1:06

this episode, it's me, Miles, Kaya,

1:09

and D'Ara talking about the news that's

1:11

the most important with regard to race and justice.

1:13

News that you probably missed in the past week, and we're here

1:16

to talk about it. New month, same us. Here

1:18

we go.

1:27

Family, family,

1:28

welcome to another episode of Pod

1:30

Save the People. I am D'Ara Ballinger. You can

1:32

find me on Instagram at D'Ara Ballinger.

1:34

I am Miles E. Johnson. You can

1:36

find me on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok,

1:39

and threads at Pharaoh Rapture.

1:41

I'm at Henderson Kaya on

1:43

Twitter. And it's DeRay at D'Ara Ballinger on Twitter.

1:46

Well this morning, thank God

1:48

it's that we can start off with some positive,

1:52

positive news and vibes. We

1:54

are going to continue to honor

1:57

the Missy Elliott. she

2:00

got inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall

2:02

of Fame. And guess who is

2:04

the one who brought her on out? The

2:07

Queen Latifah. I mean, you know

2:09

what? Perfect night for

2:11

me. I wish I could have been there. And she

2:14

is the first female identifying

2:16

rap artist to be inducted into the Rock

2:18

and Roll

2:19

Hall of Fame as I understand it. And

2:23

if you don't know Missy Elliott, you

2:25

don't even know what to tell you. We definitely couldn't be friends. Well,

2:27

I mean, no, I would help you with it. But

2:29

not only does she have her own songs, but

2:33

she's also written hits for Beyonce, Jana

2:36

Jackson, Aaliyah,

2:37

may she rest in peace,

2:38

and has partnered years

2:41

and years with the producer, Timbaland.

2:44

And that's who she worked on with her transformative

2:46

album, Super Duper Fly. So

2:50

listen, we salute you, Missy Elliott,

2:52

and we are so, so proud in

2:54

and all of all that you do. And

2:57

Kaya has a special invitation

2:59

for you. Girl, we gotta throw

3:02

a party together. Our birthdays are on the same

3:04

day. She is my birthday twin. I

3:07

feel her energy, the creativity,

3:09

that I'm just gonna do what I wanna do. I need to

3:11

be free. In fact, when

3:14

Queen Latifah was introducing her, she

3:17

said, you feel free? You

3:19

wanna try some wild-ish? Thank

3:22

Missy. And if you look

3:24

at her videos, she was trailblazing

3:27

in

3:27

her videos, her

3:30

wardrobe

3:30

choices, the big black

3:32

trash bag, all

3:35

of the iconic stuff that she has done,

3:39

ladies night, all kinds of, I mean, she

3:41

continues to break

3:43

through walls and barriers creatively

3:46

and bring something that the people

3:48

love, and I am here

3:50

for it. She's also super humble. She

3:53

was like, I can't even believe I'm

3:55

here. There are all of these people whose shoulders

3:57

I stand on. And I appreciate

3:59

it. I appreciate that. And

4:02

one of the things that was super sweet that I thought

4:04

was, y'all her momma ain't

4:06

never heard her perform because the

4:09

mother was like, I don't want to hear no

4:11

crazy stuff coming out your mouth. So

4:15

she brought her mama to the ceremony

4:18

and said, just close your ears if

4:20

you hear something crazy, but you gotta be here

4:22

for this. So I thought that was cute. Mother

4:25

looks fantastic.

4:27

Like an astonishing looking woman. I

4:31

think this is such a historic

4:34

moment for hip hop and just for like black culture,

4:36

obviously, but also I just have

4:38

to connect that Megan Thee Stallion

4:41

came out with Cobra. Cobra

4:43

has so many elements of symbolism,

4:46

a rock sample. It's really

4:48

showing, make Thee Stallion deviate

4:52

from the kind of like female

4:55

rapper aesthetic. And I couldn't

4:57

help but connect that with Missy Elliott. There

4:59

is no trying new things.

5:03

There is no edginess. There is no

5:05

experimentation in really busting out

5:08

of the kind of rigid sexualized

5:11

prisons that black women

5:13

in art can find themselves in without

5:15

Missy Elliott pioneering that both

5:18

in her size, topics, and just the sound

5:20

choices she decides to make. Her DNA

5:22

is really on anything that's interesting

5:25

coming out of hip hop and despite

5:28

gender, has Missy Elliott's

5:31

DNA on it. Kai, I

5:33

loved that you brought up that her mom hadn't

5:35

seen her. I was fascinated

5:37

by that. And the quote is she's like, my

5:40

mother's coming, she's never seen me perform before.

5:43

She's like, she's seen me on TV, but she's

5:45

never been to a show because you know, I had

5:47

some little words I didn't ever want her

5:49

to hear. So she's coming for the first time

5:51

and I love that. And it's cool

5:54

to think that Missy has, Missy like

5:56

defined an era of

5:58

music. It was like.

5:59

from her own music

6:02

to her co-producing to

6:04

Aaliyah, like that's how I came

6:06

up, Missy. And it's cool that

6:08

she is like still around and still

6:11

making music and still inspiring

6:13

people and being recognized

6:15

for it. Like you really did define an era

6:18

of music for us.

6:22

Y'all, I can't imagine being this famous in

6:24

my mom, not just being everywhere

6:27

I am. Every show, honey, at every

6:30

show. When I say mom, we're going

6:32

to the theater,

6:32

she says, is it opening night?

6:34

When I say mom, we're going to

6:36

a show, are we VIP?

6:38

So, Missy, it might hurt your feelings

6:40

sometimes, your

6:44

momma not there, but

6:44

girl, it might be for the best. Not

6:49

mama wanna have her own security, yes. I

6:54

love it. We're on to start off the news, this is about

6:57

the mayor of the largest city in these

6:59

United States, Eric Adams,

7:02

the party mayor, the mayor that every

7:04

day I'm like, what happened and

7:07

how did he get elected? And I

7:09

might have the answer and might have

7:11

been Turkey, everybody. So

7:14

last week, his chief fundraiser

7:17

was, the FBI

7:20

raided her house because

7:23

there is, and the

7:25

chief fundraiser is 25 years old, Brianna Suggs.

7:28

The, she's being investigated

7:31

because there are allegations

7:33

that Turkey funneled money

7:36

into his campaign.

7:40

And why am I bringing this to

7:42

the pie? Because it gets even deeper.

7:45

Eric Adams was on a plane to the White House,

7:47

oh, he's on plane to DC, he's gonna meet at

7:49

the White House, meet with people about issues

7:52

related to the city and crime and all sorts of stuff.

7:54

And all of a sudden, all

7:57

the meetings get canceled and he comes back

7:59

to the city. like very quickly

8:01

and everybody's like and the mayor's office has no real

8:03

explanation for why he is Suddenly

8:06

not meeting with anybody in DC and why he's come back

8:08

to the city And when it later comes

8:11

out that the FBI had to conduct

8:13

the raid on Brianna sugs his

8:15

house his chief fundraiser While

8:18

he was out of the city because there

8:20

was a belief that he would intervene

8:22

in the investigation if he found out To

8:25

that believe my mind and then come

8:27

to find out That it looks like he

8:29

did intervene in the investigation because

8:32

the NYPD conducted a wellness

8:34

check the night before With

8:36

their like internal affairs bureau went

8:38

to the house at the FBI rated and said

8:41

that they were just like They were

8:43

instructed to collect the names of everybody

8:45

who was on the property Later,

8:47

the news has like they've been every

8:50

people like is this how the FBI connects

8:52

investigations and the resounding Feedback

8:55

is no that when

8:57

the FBI conducts investigations, especially

8:59

of city City elected

9:02

officials they do not

9:04

get other people involved It is a public

9:07

corruption scandal But it looks

9:09

like the NYPD got tipped off of the investigation

9:11

and that the Adams administration tried to actually

9:14

intervene The NYPD released

9:16

a statement on Friday night They said that

9:18

their federal partners quote rarely

9:20

ask that the NYPD perform wellness

9:22

checks before warrants Executed the

9:25

newspaper responded and said how many times

9:27

have they done that in the past and the NYPD

9:29

has not responded to Adams

9:32

has also canceled all public appearances

9:35

and no Questions from reporters

9:37

as of today are gonna happen this week

9:40

And every former FBI agent interviewed

9:43

by the news has said that in all of their time

9:45

dealing with public corruption They

9:47

have never ever asked local

9:49

police to assist Before

9:52

the search warrant is executed. So I Just

9:56

wanted to bring that here. I'm passing it by what

9:58

it means that the the mayor of the large of the city, he

10:00

is a black mayor, he is truly an awful

10:02

mayor. And I will personally say,

10:04

I think that he deserves to go out and disgrace, and

10:07

I hope that we do not have four years of him

10:09

as mayor, but it is sort

10:11

of fascinating. I never even, of all the things

10:13

I think that he would do, I didn't think Turkish

10:16

money being funneled to the campaign was gonna be the thing,

10:18

but here we are. And the 25-year-old chief

10:21

fundraiser black woman is, her life

10:23

is about to be upended for

10:26

seemingly being the conduit

10:28

of this shadiness.

10:29

I'm just trying to understand why Turkey,

10:32

I guess, but it's just like Menendez being like,

10:34

why Egypt? I mean, is it just

10:36

opportunity presenting itself and money

10:39

being exchanged? And that's who, so there's

10:42

also, there's a New York Times article about this,

10:44

about how Eric Adams has been to Turkey about

10:46

six or seven times. And at least

10:48

one of those trips was paid

10:51

for by the Turkish government, which is also like, what

10:55

are you thinking?

10:58

So one of the biggest things that will preclude

11:01

you from being in government service and

11:03

getting a political appointee is

11:05

being a foreign agent

11:07

on behalf of another country.

11:10

And that is so kind of stepping

11:12

into that, into

11:15

the water of that, that is just,

11:17

it blows my mind that you can think

11:19

that that's okay to take a trip like that.

11:22

Now,

11:24

I don't wanna make this more basic

11:26

than it is, but sometimes that helps me to

11:29

pretend like, Turkey is

11:31

a neighbor that I know instead of

11:33

a nation.

11:35

But

11:36

in the United States is just like a best

11:39

friend and I'm watching some drama instead of this complex

11:41

government system. But did

11:43

Turkey just act to borrow some money? Where

11:46

are they finding money as a government

11:49

to help

11:50

Eric Adams? Didn't we

11:52

just need the money to send them?

11:54

Because they were beefing

11:57

with Russia. How, now how you

11:59

have Eric Adams.

11:59

Adam's money, but you ain't got to

12:02

send your people money. Is

12:05

there a lie happening?

12:11

I need for that to make sense for me.

12:15

It's not making

12:17

sense for many reasons. And right now

12:20

all

12:21

Secretary of State is in Turkey. This

12:23

is where they're doing a ton of negotiations

12:25

around what's happening in Israel and Gaza. So

12:27

it's just like, it's an interesting

12:30

place. Turkey is geopolitically and like all

12:33

of,

12:34

I just, I don't understand how

12:36

leveraging this particular

12:39

mayor, and I'm not basically everything to

12:41

raise it with this mayor. Like why

12:44

him? What do you, what access

12:46

or opportunity strategically

12:48

are you going to get from him?

12:51

But be the mayor of New York city. It's like a huge,

12:53

it's a powerful position. And

12:55

also, and also it's a powerful position

12:59

being occupied by a disposable

13:03

identity. So those two things together

13:06

makes him the perfect person. Give him the crooked money,

13:08

you get the power. And if he does get exposed,

13:11

it's fine because he's the black

13:13

mayor. And then he could just dwindle

13:15

into obscurity. So it's really

13:17

a perfect recipe for allegedly

13:20

dark,

13:21

evil money to

13:24

flow here and through. So

13:26

it makes sense to me as a supervillain,

13:30

as a nation, it's

13:33

alarming. Yeah. The New Yorker

13:36

just put out a story four hours ago that says

13:37

Eric Adams has a lot of ties

13:40

to Turkey. Like this is just ridiculous.

13:43

Happy New Year.

13:44

Like of all the things we got going on in New York

13:46

city, this fool like going to Turkey, taking

13:48

these

13:48

trips to these international. The

13:51

animal was rats, not Turkey.

13:58

The category was rats in Roach's.

13:59

I will say my favorite New York

14:02

City Marathon poster

14:04

was run like Eric Adams just got invited

14:06

to a party.

14:07

He

14:11

do be out here and

14:13

it just is like, you know, what happened

14:15

to public service? And maybe it was always crazy,

14:17

but I just want to remember a day when mayors

14:19

actually ran cities and I was like,

14:22

I'm like, this man is, I can't tell

14:24

you what he's actually doing at work.

14:26

You know, it's it's not working, but hopefully

14:29

this is the end of that. The city

14:31

doesn't have to endure four years of him, but

14:34

who thought it would be Turkey? So I'll stop there. I'm

14:36

sorry, just because I'm still trying to figure this out. But

14:38

evidently, there's a construction group

14:41

that has ties to Turkey that

14:44

is also involved in this and that has given campaign

14:47

contributions to Eric Adams. So maybe

14:49

that is the link. It's like construction

14:52

property of it all.

14:54

But more to come.

14:55

Y'all. My news

14:58

this week

14:58

is an interesting twist

15:01

on the book

15:03

banning situation that's

15:05

happening across the United States. This

15:07

story takes us to Washington

15:10

state, a school

15:12

district called Mookil

15:15

Teo School District. I hope I'm

15:18

saying that right. And

15:20

in Mookil Teo School District,

15:22

To Kill a Mockingbird, the 1960 classic by

15:25

Harper Lee, was

15:29

required reading for all ninth graders.

15:32

Well, a group of teachers realized

15:35

that even though the book was

15:37

a classic, it was problematic

15:39

for many of their students,

15:41

especially black students, black

15:44

students expressed discomfort with

15:47

the way black people are portrayed in the book.

15:50

Students said they didn't see themselves

15:52

in the

15:54

narrative. There was a white

15:56

student who despite the teacher's

15:59

admonition to not say the N

16:01

word. The white student

16:03

said the N word loudly and proudly

16:06

looking in the eyes of the three

16:08

black children in this classroom when

16:10

he said it with a smile on his face, which

16:13

of course made the black students feel some kind

16:15

of way. Lots of folks said it

16:17

hurt to read the book. It

16:21

centers on whiteness, that kids

16:23

felt isolated, both black and white kids.

16:26

And so a

16:29

group of teachers got together and said,

16:32

you know what, this is

16:34

something that we can do something about. And

16:37

they decided to mount a formal

16:40

book challenge to,

16:43

to kill a mockingbird. These three

16:45

white teachers and one black teacher got

16:48

together to mount a formal book challenge. And

16:50

most book challenges in the United States, as

16:53

you know, objective texts

16:55

about LGBTQIA folks and

16:58

people of color. Most book

17:00

challenges come from people

17:03

with more right-wing politics. Most

17:06

book challenges come from parents

17:09

or residents. And this

17:11

was actually the first book challenge

17:14

in the United States that came

17:16

from teachers. And these

17:18

are progressive teachers. And so

17:20

it is a case of using,

17:25

I think what was meant for one thing,

17:27

right? I think if you hear the right talk

17:30

about it, they're worried about making

17:32

their children feel terrible about

17:34

who they are and the skin that they are in.

17:37

This clearly applies to the black

17:40

kids in this case. And

17:42

they sort of flipped the script on this and,

17:46

you know, tried to

17:48

get the book banned. They did not think that

17:50

it should be required reading for all

17:53

ninth graders. And you know what happened,

17:56

right? Politics makes strange bedfellows.

17:59

And so, of course, course, the

18:01

right wing people were like, no, no,

18:03

no, this is a classic and you

18:05

banning this would be in service

18:08

of a woke agenda. And

18:10

then like the librarians

18:12

who were sort of leftish

18:14

were like, this is censorship and

18:16

we don't stand for censorship.

18:19

And, you know, people who loved

18:21

it said that, you

18:24

know, Mockingbird was

18:26

a, it presented the reality

18:29

of the 1960s civil rights movement.

18:31

Other people said it didn't. At

18:33

the end of the day, they did not win.

18:36

All freshmen no longer have to read the book,

18:39

but it is still an option

18:41

for teachers to assign

18:43

it. And so some

18:45

win, some not win. The

18:47

teachers feel better. They also

18:50

feel like they lost.

18:52

And I think that this is just

18:54

a case where interestingly enough

18:56

when you try to flip the script, it doesn't always work.

19:00

I'm happy for the kids who no longer have to

19:02

read it, but you know, they're still teachers in

19:04

McIlteo school district where teaching

19:07

to kill a Mockingbird. And I think it

19:09

goes to show you that we value

19:11

how white children feel about themselves

19:14

and what they are reading over what black

19:16

children feel about themselves. I don't necessarily

19:19

understand how we arrived at

19:21

censoring

19:24

literature

19:26

and

19:29

to kill a Mockingbird and not even just that

19:31

book. There are a lot of books that

19:34

are from an author's mind and imagination

19:37

and experience or observational

19:40

experiences. And these

19:42

books collectively help

19:44

us not just understand the psyche

19:47

of an era, both through what the author is trying

19:49

to explain, but even what the author doesn't

19:52

always know they're explaining. Sometimes interheming

20:01

ways work that they weren't planning for you to interpret.

20:04

And I don't understand as a teacher

20:06

not being

20:10

able to be properly prepared to help

20:13

somebody learn and engage with the literature.

20:16

So when I hear stuff like,

20:19

oh, these black kids are uncomfortable, or these

20:21

white kids are being celebratory or vice versa,

20:23

it sounds like there's a teacher

20:25

problem. Because as

20:27

a teacher, you should be able to engage

20:30

with the literature, know it, and

20:32

be able to help the students

20:35

learn the literature. That's

20:37

what school is supposed to be about, is

20:40

having people able

20:42

to learn and consume things that they don't necessarily

20:45

agree with or that makes them uncomfortable and

20:47

be able to engage with that work. I

20:49

don't think the answer in either case

20:51

is this

20:54

book doesn't exist anymore. Because

20:58

for the things that are bad and good about

21:00

that book, it tells us a lot about

21:02

what was happening in that era. And

21:06

just to be clear, we're standing on the

21:08

evil giant shoulders of that

21:10

era. So understanding that era is paramount.

21:13

You can't just wash

21:16

it away. I don't want to sound old

21:18

and crickety, but I'm about to sound old and crickety.

21:21

This is a bitch. But literature

21:25

in schools and classrooms are not

21:27

Netflix marketing rooms

21:30

where who feels represented, who feels good,

21:32

and who feels

21:34

tingly at the end of the story. That is not what literature

21:37

and school rooms are for. It's for you to

21:39

expand your mind. Now you can go home

21:41

and watch Nickelodeon and Disney in

21:44

order to soften those feelings, but

21:46

we're in the classroom. We're going to have you

21:48

engage with the real world and using your real

21:50

mind and real thoughts. And we're going to teach you how to really learn.

21:52

I don't get this tennis

21:55

ball match that's happening between leftist

21:57

and conservative folks. And I'm really disappointed

21:59

in. anybody who's finding themselves on the

22:01

left who is not critically

22:05

engaging, just saying, oh we're gonna get them back because

22:07

these black kids feel uncomfortable. No,

22:09

that's not it. Be on the side

22:12

of kids learning and being able

22:14

to engage with multiple ideas and truths

22:17

and still being able to hold tight to

22:19

their sense of self and knowledge. Like that

22:21

to me feels like the answer but yeah.

22:23

Unless I'm not understanding something about the article.

22:25

I think the issue is that sometimes there's one opportunity

22:28

to talk about race

22:34

in America and some of these schools and please,

22:37

you know, Kia or Dari, correct me if I'm wrong but I

22:39

just feel like oftentimes when

22:41

it's like we're gonna talk about race,

22:44

the choice is to do it through the killer

22:46

mockingbird or through Huckleberry

22:49

Finn.

22:49

It's always

22:51

a circumstance

22:53

that we're not getting, we're not getting

22:55

a canon of

22:57

literature talking about 20th century America.

23:00

We're getting

23:02

one book

23:03

and so I think one book in that classroom

23:06

being, and I remember, I remember

23:09

being in the ninth grade and we read Huckleberry Finn

23:11

and there was a white boy in my class. I

23:14

can't remember his name probably because I was traumatized but

23:16

he loved to say the n-word. I

23:19

mean I did. I mean it was like

23:21

a whole thing. I mean you're both right, D'Ara.

23:24

It is that we usually get the one

23:26

quote-unquote

23:31

classic that is problematic

23:34

and Miles is right, right? Like teachers

23:36

are not equipped to handle

23:39

this or manage this and one of

23:41

the outcomes of this was that teachers

23:43

were trained now on how to

23:45

present difficult material which probably should

23:47

have been happening before but for me I

23:49

brought this to the podcast.

23:50

I mean I think book banning period

23:53

is a terrible thing but I brought it to the

23:55

podcast because really of the politicality

23:57

of it if that's a word, right? Like when

23:59

as

24:01

we have one set of values,

24:03

the book banning thing is being fueled by

24:06

parents'

24:06

rights to choose what their kids are exposed

24:09

to, and the preservation

24:11

of children's feelings.

24:13

And that applies

24:16

in spades when we're talking about white

24:18

kids, but it does not apply at all

24:21

when we're talking about black kids. And so, Miles,

24:23

you're absolutely right. Teachers need to be equipped.

24:25

We need to be able to see a range of,

24:28

and to D'Arra's point, what

24:28

I would say is, the black kids

24:31

were like, can we have some black authors up in here too?

24:33

And I think one of the things that came out of this is

24:35

now teachers have some choice about what

24:38

they can

24:38

teach in

24:41

ninth grade, but to me,

24:44

it is the lack of

24:45

equivalence when

24:48

we're talking about how kids feel. Or,

24:50

Kai, I think just the lack of expansiveness

24:53

about

24:53

how we're talking about American history.

24:56

Thomas

24:56

Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence, basically,

24:59

and he was a slave owner. You know what I mean? So

25:02

talking about the vastness

25:03

and complexity that

25:05

is this country.

25:06

And sharing multiple perspectives that if

25:09

you don't get it from one thing. Exactly.

25:12

The only thing I'll say is that I am interested

25:14

in what does it look like to create

25:16

the crisis, is that we

25:18

have been dealing with incoming from

25:22

the moms of liberty and that whole crew, and

25:24

da da da. And I hear everybody saying,

25:27

and I agree with it, Miles, I think your push is right.

25:30

I also went to school with the kids who were like

25:32

fascinated by the M word and those things. And

25:35

I'm like, you know what? If a set of

25:37

teachers look at all the books, they're like, this

25:39

is privileging whiteness. And

25:41

it forces this crisis of like, it

25:44

forces the crisis that you are

25:46

pushing us to confront, Miles, about

25:48

like, let's talk about what open minds

25:50

look like, da da da. But actually, I read

25:52

this, and I was like, I appreciated

25:55

that these teachers were like, you know what? We're

25:57

not gonna have these books that center whiteness. Like, we're

25:59

not gonna do that either.

25:59

if we're gonna have this like macro, if

26:02

we're gonna have these like fights about book by book,

26:05

I actually appreciated that somebody on the

26:07

seeming left was also in that fight, if

26:09

we can't win the larger argument

26:12

about openness around literature. Yeah,

26:15

I think that my belief is,

26:19

it's always about more knowledge, more literature,

26:21

more things, so to me the advocacy

26:24

is not taking away to killer Markingberg,

26:26

to me the thing to do in that moment

26:28

would have been like, let's center

26:30

and now this is actually a great opening to center

26:33

and push for the blue with style. Why

26:35

can't we have the blue with style? What is wrong with this book?

26:37

Look at the killing Markingberg, this will be the thing, but taking

26:40

away literature feels like it's doing

26:42

the same disservice. Yep. More

26:46

miles, miles walk up and said, let me just be

26:48

a vampire in the priest, come on.

26:51

Oh my goodness, I don't have my friends over for dinner.

26:55

Last night I'm feeling very aunty coded.

26:59

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32:12

Well, y'all, we're

32:15

inching, inching towards

32:18

this next presidential election

32:20

in these here United States

32:22

of America. And

32:25

it's looking pretty terrifying. The

32:27

New York Times did a poll with Sienna College, and

32:29

the findings are probably

32:31

as some of us suspected,

32:33

not great. So they found President Biden

32:35

losing to Donald Trump by

32:38

margins of four to 10 percentage

32:40

points among registered voters

32:43

in swing states, Arizona, Georgia,

32:46

Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania.

32:49

The only place where President

32:52

Biden was

32:53

leading,

32:54

but only by two percentage

32:56

points, and that was in Wisconsin. So

32:59

first of all,

33:00

ow, this,

33:02

whoa,

33:04

somebody needs to ring the alarm.

33:07

And I think this is this was even sitting

33:09

a

33:10

little bit more

33:12

deeply with me because I'm

33:15

watching so many people

33:17

that I respect

33:21

who are commenting while

33:23

they're

33:23

protesting for a

33:25

ceasefire in Palestine, that they are not going

33:27

to support President Biden

33:29

in this election. These are very

33:32

important organizers. These are people

33:33

who a lot of folks listen

33:36

to. And I'm just in my

33:38

mind, I'm like, what's the middle ground here?

33:40

What's the outreach strategy?

33:43

What are we doing

33:44

to like in real time, not even

33:46

talking about like everything

33:47

that's happening in this article and in this poll that I think

33:50

has been the last four, you know, kind of last three

33:52

and a half years up

33:52

until now. Just in the last

33:55

month,

33:56

what are we doing? What

33:59

are we doing?

33:59

and who are we doing it for? And when

34:02

I say we,

34:03

it's the universal Democratic Party.

34:06

So discontent in

34:08

this poll,

34:10

people are saying that

34:12

President Biden's policy have personally hurt

34:14

them,

34:15

and President Biden is also

34:17

losing a lot of ground

34:19

with Black voters,

34:21

with Latino voters.

34:23

I mean, this is wild. There's a point

34:25

in this article about

34:27

Republican support by Black

34:29

folks is basically knocking

34:31

out what it was during Reconstruction. That

34:33

was when the Republicans were for

34:36

us. Right, right,

34:38

right. Oh, Jesus.

34:39

That's what I wanted to say that I said that.

34:42

I've been talking on this podcast about the Black

34:45

conservative swing. I've been talking about

34:47

that. I've been talking about the programs I've

34:49

been watching. I was like, now listen, it sounds

34:52

funny because it's Kevin Samuels,

34:54

but I'm letting you know what's happened on the dark web is

34:56

about to come into the mainstream light. And

35:00

now it's actually been a fact saying.

35:02

And it's, yep, Black voters now registering 22%

35:04

support

35:05

in those swing states,

35:08

a level unseen in presidential politics

35:10

for a Republican in modern times.

35:13

That is astounding to

35:15

me, right?

35:16

Because I get the

35:18

erosion of Biden's lead or

35:20

credibility or

35:23

popularity or whatever, whatever. I

35:24

think that,

35:26

you know, if you noted

35:28

that a lot of this is in the past month,

35:30

and I think when I

35:32

think about where young people are,

35:34

where I think about where a lot of people of color

35:37

are, this Israel thing has

35:40

moved people dramatically from

35:42

wherever they were to

35:44

where they are now. But like,

35:48

so I was expecting to see

35:51

like just, I

35:53

don't know, like people not gonna

35:55

go vote or whatever, whatever, but like affirmative

35:58

to the other. of Mr.

36:01

Trump, like I

36:02

just figured people would not come out for

36:04

Biden or people would be like, I'm done, I'm out,

36:06

I'm dropping out, I'm checking out. But

36:09

the affirmative support for Trump

36:12

is astounding to me. And the

36:15

article says that the more diverse the swing

36:17

state, the farther Biden

36:19

was behind. And so this is colorful

36:22

people

36:22

who are,

36:25

you know, we make or break elections. They try to tell

36:27

us that our votes don't count, but our

36:29

votes count quite a bit. And

36:34

so that he better get together. Now, here's, if I

36:36

remember correctly, you know, before

36:38

Mr. Obama won his presidency,

36:41

it was all doom and gloom about how he was behind

36:43

and yada, yada and all the dishes. So

36:46

polls are polls and we should take

36:48

them as indicators, but not as the

36:51

final word, right? He still has a year

36:53

to

36:54

pull it out. But wooza,

36:57

wowza, honey. And

37:00

here's what folks are saying. This is

37:02

from Jamere Henry, a 25 year old

37:04

who packages liquor in Albany, Georgia. He

37:07

initially had high hopes for Biden. You can't be

37:09

worse than Trump. But then as the years go by,

37:12

things happen with inflation, the war

37:14

going on in Ukraine, recently Israel,

37:16

and I guess our borders are not secure at all.

37:20

And these are talking points that I mean, even

37:22

in some of my conversations with just like, being

37:25

out and about in New York, that I'm

37:27

hearing. But what do we say about the borders? What

37:30

do we say about, so not only is

37:33

this, you know,

37:36

whatever they're doing around how they're getting messaging

37:39

out through the airwaves, through the internet, et cetera,

37:42

it's really pulling people in

37:44

to a point where

37:48

it's scary, y'all, it's just scary.

37:51

It's very scary. Very scary. Conservatism

37:54

is definitely seductive. In so

37:56

many ways, I try to like, show

37:59

the different funnel. the different ways that

38:01

you think you're entering this

38:03

far this this left or this pro black

38:05

space or your This

38:08

diverse space but we're just traditional and we're LGBT.

38:10

We're not like those people there's all these different

38:13

entryways that still gets you to conservatism

38:16

and because Trump is such a clown

38:19

and such a For

38:21

so many people are unserious personality I've

38:25

heard so many people arrive at the same conclusions

38:28

that oh no This

38:30

is our Trojan horse to get our way and we'll deal

38:32

with the Trojan horse that is trumping in the ridiculousness

38:35

to get our In order to get our way the

38:37

other thing that I would say like I've always been Identified

38:40

as like politically queer pro

38:43

black a black feminist These are my

38:45

like tight little but political identities which usually

38:47

finds me on the left and I also identify

38:49

as a practice So I'm a person

38:52

who votes who engages with people

38:54

who maybe are more committed to a government than I am

38:57

In order to both not just hear their point

38:59

of views, but also just so we can get things moving

39:01

along this Israel

39:03

and Palestine Conversation

39:06

has been the first time since I've been

39:08

able to vote that I've had

39:11

a moral deep

39:13

moral War

39:15

in myself, you know the the

39:18

tax me the seeing

39:20

the the dismembered babies and seeing

39:23

the those things happen and then knowing

39:26

that my money is Funnelling

39:28

that it is a very hard thing

39:30

to engage with and I think a lot of people

39:32

of my generation who are maybe left Leaning

39:34

who would be activated are finding

39:36

it extremely hard to do that And

39:39

we're also generation that had to do it for

39:41

9-11. We had to do it for Even

39:44

when gay marriage and just like, you know, just

39:47

just get Obama in even though bomb didn't say nothing

39:49

that he liked us But just get a man it

39:51

will be better. We've we've been kind of told over

39:53

and over again That

39:56

it will be better once we vote in these things and

39:58

now that it seems like the costs are getting bigger

40:01

for the pragmatic solutions to be even smaller

40:03

and even more inconsequential. And I think

40:05

disengagement feels like the morally clear

40:07

thing to do for a lot of people because you

40:09

see the direct line between your money and

40:11

your vote to somebody else's demise and

40:13

annihilation. And I think people want

40:16

a president, I'm just

40:18

speaking for people on the left, want a president and want leadership

40:21

who's going to say the morally

40:23

right thing and be activated

40:25

by those things. And that connection,

40:27

that kid who you see who's five years old

40:30

with the bug eyes who just saw the

40:32

whole world and family blow up, we

40:34

know that that kid is going to turn into the

40:38

18-year-old with the same eyes

40:40

who look soulless who comes into the

40:42

terrorist attack and we want that cycle to stop. And

40:45

if that cycle's not stopping, then

40:49

what are we voting for? What are we voting for? What

40:51

are we engaging on? And I think that we're going to

40:53

see, I pray that

40:57

we go blue, but I

40:59

think that it's not going to be an easy, oh, we

41:02

did this with our eyes closed, win for

41:05

people on the left. I think that it's going to take

41:08

a lot

41:10

deeper and more vulnerable talk than what's been happening

41:13

is what I'll say.

41:14

And Miles, I think and I feel

41:16

like you'll have a guiding

41:19

perspective on this too. To

41:22

the point of we're always told to do something

41:24

and so that's why we do the thing. We

41:26

have to run Biden because of the

41:28

party structure, of the work that's already

41:31

been done, of name recognition, yada, yada,

41:33

yada. But

41:34

is it that we run someone

41:36

else? Can it be that we

41:39

just do something entirely

41:41

different?

41:42

Is that even, is

41:45

that

41:47

just out of the imagination, I

41:49

guess? This is my take on why I

41:52

think this is going to hurt Biden. And I will say this morning,

41:55

I think it was the interview this morning yesterday, Bowman,

41:57

Representative Bowman was on the news and said that. the

42:00

war in Gaza could cause Biden

42:03

the reelection. And I agree with him, is

42:06

that I think that it's one

42:08

thing to be like, okay, there's a conflict and most

42:10

people don't know anything with the Middle East. You're like, okay, do

42:13

we know the history of Israel-Palestine? No, like people

42:15

didn't grow up learning it. I certainly didn't grow

42:17

up learning it. But for a lot

42:19

of people, I know, they're like, okay,

42:22

can you bomb the hospitals,

42:26

the refugee camp, like something we're not

42:28

even like, it didn't happen. It is

42:30

like that happened, right? And

42:33

the left is just sort of like, well,

42:35

they're trying to find Hamas. And you're like, well, I

42:37

know people who literally know nothing about

42:40

the Middle East. And I saw one poster that

42:42

was like, if you were trying to find a school

42:44

shooter, do you bomb the school? And I'm like, that

42:46

makes sense to me, right? And

42:49

the White House is like total just

42:52

like double down on

42:55

even the idea that you ask a question means that

42:57

you're like somehow wild. I think that

42:59

they have lost, they lost it. And here's

43:01

actually why I think they lost it. I think that when election

43:03

time comes, it's actually the activists

43:06

who tell everybody less of two evils,

43:09

you gotta make a choice in this moment. It's

43:11

like, it is the furthest left people

43:13

who even when they don't like the

43:16

party are like, hey, y'all, we gotta, you

43:18

know, we have seen the tea leaves with the other people and

43:20

they crazy like Trump is literally telling people right

43:22

now

43:22

on day one, I'm going to arrest

43:25

all these people who disagree with me. I'm gonna lock them up.

43:27

I'm like, that's what he's saying. The activists

43:29

get that. And they are the people who are telling

43:31

people time and time again, less are two evils,

43:34

we need you to vote, come outside, get like,

43:36

it is organizers who do that. It's not random

43:39

people who wake up and do that. It's the organizers.

43:41

And I think he has lost the organizers. I think

43:43

they're organizers who will not know how

43:46

to defend the statements that they've made

43:49

about what Israel has done. They, and forget

43:51

the like, forget

43:53

all the stuff that is like, there are two

43:55

sides that reasonable people

43:57

could say, but there's stuff that it's like, tell

43:59

me why. bomb the refugee camp and

44:01

the administration is just like, cool.

44:03

And Israel says, we're looking for one person and you

44:06

bomb no camp. It's like organizing

44:08

the raid can make sense. Like I can't explain

44:10

that to somebody in a way that I can explain

44:12

the loan thing. I'm like, you know, this will happen with the loans

44:15

or the aid to other countries. It's like somebody said

44:17

to me, Drake, kids are in debt over

44:20

fruit snacks

44:21

and we just gave 14 billion. And I'm

44:23

like, I don't got it. I don't, I don't know what to

44:25

say to you because that does

44:27

feel wild to people.

44:29

And you would lose legitimacy as an organizer

44:32

and as a trusted person trying to convince or

44:35

seduce somebody to do that. So you can,

44:37

so you don't even want to get into that tango because

44:39

you know that whether Trump or Biden

44:41

is president, you still need those people's trust and they're

44:43

not going to trust you with those things.

44:46

I do have to say, cause I would just,

44:48

wouldn't be me and I would just feel awful awful

44:51

if I didn't say it. I do have to connect what

44:53

Obama said with the,

44:56

the, the, the, the, the fellow crooked media podcast

44:59

and how Obama in the clip that they posted

45:02

reduced a lot of what was happening.

45:04

A lot of conversations that were happening around Israel,

45:06

Palestine to simply take

45:08

top takes in social media, that

45:11

kind of paternalism, that kind of minimizing

45:13

how people are feeling and discussing things just because

45:16

it's a generational difference of how we're discussing things

45:18

is not the right way to go. I

45:21

left that clip feeling insulted

45:23

and like discussed in like almost disgusted

45:26

with the fact that somebody who is

45:28

president Obama couldn't just say ceasefire.

45:31

You're talking about we need to hear other people's takes

45:33

and we need to and we need to

45:36

be able to hear other people's sides and we have to

45:39

admit that it's a complicated issue.

45:41

It's not,

45:43

it's a storage issue. It's a long issue,

45:45

but it's been wrong and simple for a long time.

45:47

It's just wrong, simple for a long time. It's

45:49

not that complicated. It's in the

45:52

fact that you're making

45:54

it seem like because a lot

45:57

of people are doing things through social media or Tik TOK

45:59

or even community. indicating certain perspectives to

46:01

that point is the

46:04

fact that that was a part of that argument is just so

46:06

wild to me. And it was so insulting.

46:08

And the fact that President

46:10

Obama wouldn't exist without colonization.

46:13

You were born in Hawaii, which is not, which

46:16

is a colonial territory. All

46:18

these different things are happening. And then the, and

46:20

you don't have any, you couldn't say ceasefire.

46:23

That's where to me, the conversation starts when you

46:25

say, this is ridiculous. Let's stop.

46:28

And then if you want to have a conversation between Palestine

46:30

and Israel, and we want to dig into it, then

46:33

that to me feels like the fair humane thing to do. But

46:36

a ceasefire just felt like the

46:38

easiest, bravest thing to do. And he couldn't

46:41

do that. Or maybe he did do that. And we're going to see the full interview.

46:43

He's also not

46:44

going to do that, Miles. He's not going to go

46:46

against

46:46

the administration.

46:48

That's just not how they operate. Which is what

46:50

we have to admit, because if you're running Obama

46:53

as this person who calms down black

46:55

people, who left white

46:57

people and all

46:59

these other people who love Obama, you know, let's

47:01

be real, Obama has made it to the Tupac,

47:04

Malcolm X baptism portraits. So

47:07

if he says something, he can calm

47:09

down some certain people who are activated. He's

47:11

been used like that. He's been in, and of

47:14

course, not just in the black community, but just in the

47:16

left community in general, he's been used as that

47:18

icon to censor people,

47:20

get people back on their side. And people are not

47:22

falling for that anymore. And it's insulting.

47:25

And they have to advance their dialogue because people

47:27

are seeing through it. So as shallow

47:29

and as transparent and simple

47:31

as they see as TikTok is being, it's just as shallow

47:34

and as transparent as your talking

47:36

points are. And you have to advance them and complicate

47:38

them if you have a chance of getting

47:41

people's hearts back before election day, in my

47:43

opinion.

47:43

I guess that was my question earlier. Like

47:45

is

47:48

it too late?

47:49

Or do

47:51

we think that

47:55

Biden, Obama, Hillary,

47:57

like all like our democratic

47:59

elites,

48:00

if they can organize themselves

48:03

in a way that

48:04

there can be transparency and accessibility

48:07

so that organizers

48:07

can get questions answered.

48:10

And more than that,

48:12

different policy decisions can

48:15

be made, like in earnest, like right away.

48:17

Do we think there is space

48:20

for that?

48:21

Because the org because I think it might

48:24

be true. I think it might be true. And

48:26

here's the reason why. It is

48:29

it if you

48:31

are looking for a way forward,

48:34

the only way forward is a ceasefire.

48:38

Right? Because otherwise we get into the equivocation

48:41

of who did what first and blah, blah, blah.

48:43

We could go all the way back to biblical times and not find

48:46

whatever. But as Miles said, the

48:48

only way forward, you cannot fix

48:50

this as long as folks

48:53

are bombing hospitals and schools and things

48:55

like this, like it has to stop.

48:58

And you can have conversation or you can have negotiations

49:00

or you can whatever, whatever.

49:02

I think that the

49:04

moral equivocation that's happening

49:06

now, right, the Biden administration

49:08

came out and was like, we stand with you basically

49:11

come hell or high water and we're going to give you a whole lot

49:14

of money.

49:14

And lots of the allies said the

49:16

same. And that was

49:19

not necessarily the will of the

49:21

American populace. And so you start to hear

49:23

now that regular people are

49:25

protesting and, you know, are

49:27

like, no ceasefire. That's our priority. And

49:30

now

49:31

the administration is like, yeah, yeah, we're trying

49:34

to cajole Israel into

49:36

a ceasefire. And Israel is like, you know what

49:39

it is. We told you what it is. Total destruction,

49:41

blah, blah, blah. And yes, we need money. And

49:44

so like now, after

49:46

the fact, when the Biden administration is

49:48

like, oh, yeah, we're calling for a ceasefire, we're doing

49:51

what we can, we're going to go. It

49:53

is the horses out

49:55

the barn. Is that the saying?

49:59

I

50:03

don't know how you then

50:05

bring these people together and say, oh, we said this

50:07

thing. But what we really meant is blah,

50:09

blah, right? Like there is not,

50:12

I don't know how you fix this. And

50:15

I do think the presidential

50:17

election is imperiled

50:19

for sure.

50:21

I think that Miles, your point about the like mobilizing

50:23

the black person, I was, I don't

50:26

know, Karen Jean-Pierre, like she is

50:28

not my friend. I did not know her. If we saw

50:30

it, I've been in rooms with her and we, you

50:32

know, wave, but I do not know her. So

50:35

I have no indication of her character or whatever.

50:39

When Representative Omar

50:41

and AOC

50:43

and Cory Bush and all those people released statements

50:46

being like, a, like, you know,

50:49

ceasefire at least, but like we, you know,

50:51

they called, they early called

50:53

out the equivocation about this. Jean-Pierre

50:57

said from the podium, so I've seen

50:59

some of those statements this weekend and we're going to continue

51:01

to be very clear. We believe they're

51:03

wrong. We believe they're repugnant and

51:05

we believe they're disgraceful. She

51:08

said that at the White House press secretary

51:11

and the statement, I didn't

51:13

catch who she was. She's against

51:15

Omar, AOC, Bush, the whole,

51:18

the like small group of the

51:20

progressives who were like, a,

51:22

this is wild. Like America cannot stand by

51:24

why this happened. And she called them

51:27

repugnant and disgraceful. And

51:30

I think there, there would have been a time where you get the

51:32

black person to do that. And

51:34

then it does like, you know, everybody's like, okay. And

51:36

I think that people have just seen through it. And

51:39

to your point, when you see through it,

51:41

you can't see it. You see yourself getting played. So

51:44

she has no, she lost in that moment. I do

51:46

not know this woman in that moment.

51:48

She lost any shred of credibility. I

51:50

won't, I don't trust her. I

51:52

don't respect her. Like she lost it. Cause I'm

51:54

like, you could say we disagree with them and I got,

51:57

that's your job. You gotta do that. You're like,

51:59

my boss said we're gonna do it.

51:59

we not on this? And I gotta

52:02

say, but to call them repugnant

52:04

while you're watching this at, girl,

52:06

no. You have lost, you're not

52:08

a real person to me anymore. You are not credible.

52:10

I'd rather you quit than

52:13

stand up there and say it's repugnant and

52:15

disgraceful. And these statements, no.

52:17

So I think it is,

52:21

as an organizer, I don't know what they

52:23

could do to get me to defend this

52:25

against people who say, DeRay, but

52:27

why didn't they call for a ceasefire?

52:29

Why did they let them bomb the refugee camp?

52:32

I don't know. I ain't got a good answer. Don't

52:34

go anywhere.

52:35

I don't know. I've got more bad-tempered people

52:41

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53:09

today at joindhl.com. Welcome

53:12

back to our studio, where we

53:14

have a special guest with us today, Toucan

53:17

Sam from Fruit Loop. Toucan Sam,

53:19

welcome. It's my pleasure to be here.

53:22

Oh, and, um, it's Fruit

53:24

Loops, just so you know.

53:26

Uh, fruit. Fruit. Yeah,

53:29

fruit. No, it's Fruit

53:32

Loops. The same way you say studio.

53:37

That's not how we say it.

53:39

Fruit Loops, find

53:41

the loopy side.

53:44

Hi, it's LeVar Burton, and

53:47

I've got a brand new podcast

53:50

called Sound Detectives.

53:54

It's a fun, smart, and hilarious

53:56

show for the whole family about the

53:59

magic and mystery of sound.

53:59

History Sound Sound

54:02

Sound Sound Sound Sound Sound

54:05

Sound Sound Sound Sound Sound

54:07

Did you hear that? In this world, sounds

54:10

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54:17

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54:19

Hunch. And we've got his new

54:22

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It's me, Audie. I'm an ear.

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Join the sound detectives as they travel

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54:34

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our detectives will make some wrong guesses

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Like a tiny dinosaur, kind

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54:45

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54:48

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54:53

What sound does a motorbout make when

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54:56

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54:59

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with a little help from yours truly.

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Listen to sound detectives wherever you

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get your podcasts. Sound

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good to you? Sounds great

55:57

to me.

56:11

I

56:11

think that's okay. And I think that there's so

56:13

many people like you, D'Ray, who

56:16

are not like all of us, but like

56:18

when I think about who they're

56:21

losing, there's so many people

56:23

who I've seen lose their jobs, so

56:25

many people who have basically taken a stance,

56:28

who are not a part of the political

56:31

elite, who don't have the power. So

56:34

I think if people are saying,

56:36

well, I was just at my tech

56:38

job, minding my business, or I was just at whatever

56:40

mind of my business, but I felt so compelled. I have

56:43

a friend who's had a

56:45

nice publicist job, I'll just say that to be ambiguous, who was

56:48

saying stuff because they felt so compelled to do it. And

56:51

it's not a part of their job. So if regular

56:54

citizens, I guess what I'm trying to say is regular citizens

56:56

are willing to sacrifice

56:59

and risk things in order to say

57:01

what's right, it becomes a problem

57:03

when the people who are supposed to, their

57:06

job is supposed to be able to risk things to do what's

57:08

right are not able to do that. And

57:11

yeah, the customer service era of government

57:14

has to, and we have to get

57:16

to a humanity part where we don't just say

57:18

the script that was given to us because it's

57:22

feeling a little AI generated in hollow

57:24

and it's not moving people.

57:26

The interesting thing to me also about

57:28

this is it's not like I think Trump would say

57:30

something different, right? And

57:35

so, but I think that people feel

57:37

like he's decisive and he

57:40

is definitive in ways that

57:44

this administration is not. So

57:46

I'm not sure what people think they're going

57:48

to get on the other side. This

57:52

is so

57:53

perplexing to watch. I

57:56

hate to say it like.

57:59

that but like we're not

58:01

gonna get I think that's my point is like then

58:03

what what are we doing

58:05

what are we doing then cuz we're not yeah I

58:07

because what about another nominee

58:10

what about another nominee that's

58:13

can that can that happen I mean the way our

58:15

thing is set up

58:17

okay let's go I don't even know but I'm

58:21

saying I would rather Johnson

58:24

shut up I am in this I'm in this

58:26

moment where I'm like you have he has crossed

58:28

the line so far on this one that

58:30

I it DeRay is even willing to entertain

58:32

a conversation about another nominee we can't

58:35

do Trump so I'm on the like I'll be out there being

58:37

like I know he did that crazy thing but don't move Trump

58:39

because Trump is

58:41

nuts

58:42

and I'm like we should at least honestly

58:44

talk about another nominee

58:50

I want everybody who's listening right now

58:52

to go on a ride and we're all in the

58:58

same

59:04

car together and in this car we're gonna go on a different

59:07

road it's gonna be bumpy

59:10

but we're gonna get there because

59:12

we are reporting the news so I'm about to

59:14

talk about Dwight Howard apparently there

59:16

is a sport that involves a

59:21

bouncable ball and you throw to a

59:23

basket and a

59:25

hoof and people love it apparently

59:28

I didn't hear about this sport until one

59:30

Dwight Howard came to my desk so

59:37

the white Howard is

59:40

a successful basketball player I feel like I'm like

59:42

minimizing it because every article is like

59:44

giving him so many like awards and saying

59:46

he's like hey but I'm

59:48

sorry so I'm sorry if I'm minimizing this for actual

59:51

sports fans but Dwight Howard is

59:53

a successful on basketball player Dwight Howard

59:55

has been accused of sexual assault

59:58

he was accused by a

1:00:01

gay man of sexual

1:00:04

assault, and there's been other people who have

1:00:06

accused the White Howard of this too. My

1:00:09

news is not necessarily that he's been accused of these

1:00:11

things, even though that is newsworthy as well. My

1:00:13

news is the fact that the media's

1:00:16

engagement with it, specifically our media leaders

1:00:19

using leaders

1:00:21

with the lowest case of the L

1:00:24

that I can find, are

1:00:27

engaging with this as salacious gossip

1:00:29

that makes weird or

1:00:31

strange queer sex acts, and not the fact

1:00:34

that there's somebody who's in the

1:00:36

community, who's 6'11", who

1:00:38

has so much power, is

1:00:42

committing sexual assault, allegedly. The

1:00:44

big thing that I want to connect with this is

1:00:48

when it comes to queer sexualities and

1:00:51

sex acts, it being used

1:00:53

as comedy actually helps facilitate

1:00:56

violence, because if something's not taken

1:00:58

seriously, how can it be harmful? If

1:01:00

something is seen as outrageous

1:01:03

or shocking, but how

1:01:05

could it be bloody and horrific?

1:01:08

This is a consistent play that we'll

1:01:10

see, and I've seen it both in intimate

1:01:15

social

1:01:16

communities, where I've been in

1:01:18

community with powerful

1:01:21

black gay men who I have to stop being friends with

1:01:23

because I've heard about sexual assaults

1:01:26

and sexual violence that they committed, and

1:01:29

because it's hard for

1:01:31

people to see a black gay

1:01:33

man or a black queer person as anything,

1:01:36

but willing and open sexually, that it

1:01:38

doesn't ever get taken seriously. I hate that this

1:01:40

is happening with this victim now.

1:01:43

Let me read a little bit from this article that I'm pulling

1:01:45

from, which is in The Guardian. The

1:01:48

allegation is the lawsuit, like any case of

1:01:50

sexual assault, are deeply disturbing. If the jury

1:01:52

finds for the plaintiff Howard should be punished

1:01:54

heavily, but Howard is being tried for his alleged

1:01:57

behavior, not his sexuality, and rather

1:01:59

than talking about a troubling case of sexual assault

1:02:01

involving a famous athlete, many in the

1:02:03

media have been quick to use how homosexuality as

1:02:05

a punchline or as a speculation to why

1:02:07

he is no longer in the NBA. The pundits have already

1:02:10

flooded the airwaves with their AO's

1:02:12

and pauses, including the It

1:02:14

Is What It Is talk show with rappers Cameron

1:02:17

and Mace. Remember them? Mace claimed

1:02:19

that how homosexuality is the reason he is no longer

1:02:21

in the NBA. People will say it don't matter

1:02:23

but as soon as they find out it matters, the former

1:02:25

Bad Boy rapper said. So they out of them

1:02:28

when it comes down to making money off the story, it

1:02:30

matters. When it comes down to who is dating, it's

1:02:32

going to matter. When it comes down to if

1:02:34

you're going to be in the locker room with them, it matters

1:02:37

because there's 30 teens who didn't sign Dwight

1:02:39

Howard because it matters. This is

1:02:41

why reading matters because it's easier

1:02:43

to be critical when you read when you've read

1:02:46

a feminist book or two. So

1:02:48

Dwight Howard, the real

1:02:50

story around Dwight Howard is how he's actually

1:02:52

being patriarchally protected from

1:02:55

sexually assaulting people because

1:02:58

of his power, because of his elite

1:03:00

stance in society as a celebrity. There's

1:03:03

no way that this could happen

1:03:06

to, I hate doing the identity

1:03:08

switch but I got to do it, there's no way that Dwight Howard

1:03:10

could have done this to a young white girl, to a

1:03:13

white girl and this would be the same response. So

1:03:16

instead of worrying about what money or what

1:03:18

team he's not on or not participating

1:03:20

in, the worry should be is how

1:03:23

come we're being told by a

1:03:25

member of our community, a far distant

1:03:27

cousin of

1:03:30

our community has been sexually assaulted and we're not

1:03:32

furious. And when we figure out another person,

1:03:34

another person this happened to, we're not furious

1:03:37

and we're not saying something. And Dwight

1:03:39

Howard's able to go on Instagram live

1:03:42

and on social media and make the whole

1:03:44

situation about this is my business,

1:03:46

what I do when it comes to my sexuality,

1:03:49

this is my privacy,

1:03:51

this is what happens in my bedroom, it's my business. Yeah,

1:03:54

I'm sure until there's violence introduced,

1:03:57

then it becomes everybody's business. As soon

1:03:59

as you introduce violence and

1:04:02

non-consensual violence, because, child, I'm in New York

1:04:04

and there's some freaks, but non-consensual violence

1:04:06

to your bedroom. As soon as

1:04:09

you do that, then you turn your private

1:04:11

bedroom into a public stage for critique

1:04:13

and for accountability. You do, you

1:04:16

know, and I think

1:04:18

when complex identities and sexual

1:04:20

experiences come into these feminist

1:04:23

talks around me too, around accountability,

1:04:25

around violence, we have to get

1:04:27

better, you know, and everything

1:04:30

that's happened in Johnson and Major should be happening

1:04:32

to Johnson and Major from the looks of those

1:04:34

alleged reports. However, the swiftness

1:04:37

of that and the slowness of Dwight Howard

1:04:40

has to be reviewed. And

1:04:42

we have to talk about it and we can't just, and

1:04:44

we have to stop taking queer sexual

1:04:47

sexualities and sex acts as punch

1:04:49

lines or these modern

1:04:51

day sideshow acts. And I can't believe they do that.

1:04:53

I can't believe this happens. I can't believe, oh,

1:04:55

there's somebody who was born as a man who was in heels who

1:04:58

came, who was a part of the sexual thing too.

1:05:00

No, the, the, the, the, the

1:05:02

spotlight should be on that there was non-consensual

1:05:05

sex and domination used both in your

1:05:07

body and through, um, your social

1:05:10

and economic power. That's what should be

1:05:12

what the focus is, not how you

1:05:15

decided to dominate the fact that you decided to

1:05:17

dominate to be the focus. So I wanted to bring this

1:05:19

to the podcast because I was extremely

1:05:21

disappointed with the

1:05:23

hip hop community's response. I was disappointed

1:05:26

in, um, chow who I

1:05:28

don't, that, that, that sportsman who'll be talking with

1:05:30

the long face who don't like Rihanna, like

1:05:33

that, that man, like his response.

1:05:35

There's been a

1:05:38

couple of black feminists on YouTube. Also the response

1:05:40

who were kind of like, um, just over

1:05:42

playing maybe Dwight Howard's physical attraction

1:05:45

to them and, and, and, and in the same

1:05:47

way, minimizing. So

1:05:49

you're, you're trying to have a feminist critique of

1:05:51

the sexual, um, the sexual

1:05:53

violence, but then you're saying

1:05:55

a whole bunch of things about how sexy he is or

1:05:58

how attractive he is or he is tall.

1:05:59

And I'm like, yeah, this can't happen.

1:06:03

This can't happen. There needs

1:06:05

to be an off switch, and there needs to be a serious

1:06:07

switch when somebody who's a part of our family

1:06:09

saying, hey, I'm being harmed, and

1:06:12

I have the courage enough to

1:06:14

say it while it happened, or within the same 10

1:06:17

years or five years that it happened, and they're not waiting

1:06:20

years later like George Foreman's victims or

1:06:22

Bill Cosby's victims. Yeah,

1:06:25

so I want to bring it to the podcast so it can be serious.

1:06:28

Of course, I want to hear y'all's thoughts and

1:06:31

opinions on this, but just

1:06:34

keep that in mind when you're around people who

1:06:36

are constantly publicly sexualized

1:06:39

that often that's

1:06:42

a good disguise for sexual

1:06:44

violence too because people don't think people who

1:06:46

are openly queer can be sexually violated. I

1:06:49

was surprised actually because

1:06:52

when I first saw it on social media, I was like,

1:06:54

oh, you know, because this has happened with the way I heard before,

1:06:57

where it is clear that he is at least

1:06:59

gender fluid or so

1:07:02

like, and then I clicked and was like, oh, well,

1:07:04

this has happened before, but this is another allegation of assault.

1:07:07

This isn't his first allegation of assault. There

1:07:10

have been trans women before who said that he

1:07:12

said he was going to kill them and did it. So,

1:07:14

so I saw this, I'm like, well, we are missing the story

1:07:16

here. This is not about, you know, sexual

1:07:19

identity. This is about

1:07:21

accusation of rape or sexual violence.

1:07:25

And to just echo what you said,

1:07:27

I frankly was shocked. And

1:07:30

it is certainly the protection of patriarchy

1:07:32

that he is posting TikToks

1:07:35

being like, I'm just minding my business. People

1:07:37

want to be, and you're like, well, this actually was

1:07:39

not about your gender

1:07:41

identity or expression. This is

1:07:44

about an accusation of sexual assault that

1:07:46

frankly, the victim's face is

1:07:48

out. Like that person is going to experience

1:07:51

the long tail of being associated with

1:07:53

you in this way. And

1:07:55

you are just making sort of a

1:07:58

joke of all of it. I don't

1:08:00

have any constructive feedback on this, but I will

1:08:02

share your shock at

1:08:05

how,

1:08:05

like not even the Instagram

1:08:08

community, but the mainstream athletic

1:08:12

places also made

1:08:15

it a story about

1:08:17

like this gender fluidity or sexual

1:08:19

whatever and not about sexual violence

1:08:21

and like that was really something.

1:08:27

I mean, I found this

1:08:29

to be alarming as well. Like

1:08:33

the first problem here is if

1:08:36

I accuse somebody of

1:08:39

sexual assault, like

1:08:41

they

1:08:41

got to get arrested. This dude hasn't been arrested. He

1:08:44

hasn't been charged. He hasn't like any of

1:08:46

the formal things that should happen when

1:08:49

this stuff happens, hasn't.

1:08:52

And so for the victim,

1:08:55

it's wildly

1:08:57

problematic that not only is

1:09:00

justice not being served. I mean, Dwight Howard has called

1:09:02

for charges

1:09:03

to be dismissed. There's no charges against him.

1:09:05

I can't even sort

1:09:07

out all the legalities. D.R.A., you can help us figure

1:09:09

that out.

1:09:10

But it ain't right when somebody says

1:09:12

you harmed them, assaulted them, there

1:09:14

has to be an investigation. None of that seems to

1:09:16

be happening. He just seems to get

1:09:18

to say, you know, yet

1:09:20

that didn't happen. It was all consensual.

1:09:22

See you soon. I think that

1:09:24

the media frenzy, Miles,

1:09:26

is because for years

1:09:28

and years and years, there have been speculation

1:09:31

about his sexuality for all kinds of reasons.

1:09:34

And I mean, as far as we've

1:09:36

progressed,

1:09:37

you know we ain't

1:09:39

that progressed. And

1:09:42

these patriarchal, you

1:09:44

know, toxic, ideas

1:09:47

of toxic masculinity persist,

1:09:50

especially in places like the NBA

1:09:52

and in other sports franchises, sports

1:09:55

leagues and stuff. I don't know. None of this

1:09:57

is surprising to me exactly.

1:09:59

as DeRay said, like, there have been

1:10:02

multiple allegations against white Howard over the

1:10:04

years. I think the thing that is surprising

1:10:06

is that nobody seems to be taking this seriously

1:10:09

and that this, the person

1:10:11

who is aggrieved has

1:10:13

to see all of this stuff on the internet

1:10:16

when something happened and

1:10:19

there's no, what, what,

1:10:21

what is the, what is the recourse for this?

1:10:23

But if just put the, put the shoe on

1:10:25

the other foot for a second, if this happened to you, or if this

1:10:27

happened to your sister or your brother, you would want

1:10:30

the full force of law. You want an investigation.

1:10:32

You sure wouldn't want the accuser. I'm

1:10:34

not accused saying crazy

1:10:36

stuff on social media about

1:10:38

it. And you know, you're right.

1:10:40

It is

1:10:41

protection of the patriarchy

1:10:43

of, you know, out

1:10:45

of celebrity of all of this

1:10:46

stuff. And I just don't

1:10:49

understand why nobody is sort

1:10:51

of saying,

1:10:51

Hey, wait, like

1:10:53

something's happened here and we've got to figure out

1:10:55

how to handle it in the appropriate way. It

1:10:57

is like astounding. And

1:11:01

I think the thing that is really astounding about this is this

1:11:03

has been going on

1:11:05

for

1:11:07

years,

1:11:08

allegedly,

1:11:10

allegedly, but it's also like,

1:11:13

you know, I

1:11:15

want to talk about

1:11:15

nobody's kids, but Dwight Howard's been

1:11:17

through so many things too around allegedly abusing

1:11:20

his kids. There's been a lot of

1:11:22

things over the years where

1:11:26

it, one could argue that

1:11:28

who he chooses as a victim

1:11:31

is key to how he continually

1:11:33

gets exonerated. Because if

1:11:35

who you're choosing as a victim is so vulnerable

1:11:38

or so unseen, and I think,

1:11:40

Kaya, to your point, that's why this is allowed to

1:11:42

continue, right? Because if,

1:11:45

if, if, if a man is not seen

1:11:47

as someone who could

1:11:48

be a victim of sexual assault

1:11:51

and law enforcement sees it that way,

1:11:53

and then Dwight Howard, who I'm sure still

1:11:55

probably has at least a hundred million dollars left, has

1:11:58

an army of attorneys.

1:12:00

that can help navigate this.

1:12:02

I mean, that's where we are.

1:12:06

But I think it's part of the, you know, just

1:12:10

the cultural belief system that is

1:12:12

so patriarchal that has protected this guy

1:12:15

for year after year after year after year.

1:12:18

It's like he's had a reputation in VA since

1:12:21

I was young and getting flown to places, okay?

1:12:24

So

1:12:25

that was 20 years ago. Wait,

1:12:27

I'm sorry, you wanna say a little bit more about that? No,

1:12:30

no, that's for another time. That's for another time.

1:12:32

That's for another time. So it's just-

1:12:35

I think we got some time until we have to wrap.

1:12:37

I think we, I think. I think. Anyhoo,

1:12:45

but Miles, thank you for bringing this one because good

1:12:47

grief. That's

1:12:50

it. Thank you so much

1:12:51

for tuning in to Podcast with People This Week. Tell your friends

1:12:53

to check it out and make sure you read it wherever

1:12:55

you get your podcasts. So this Apple Podcast is

1:12:57

nowhere else. And we'll see you next week.

1:13:00

Podcast with People is a production of Cricket Media and

1:13:02

is produced by A.J. Moultrie and mixed

1:13:04

by Evan Kluck. Executive produced by

1:13:06

me, a special thanks to our weekly contributors,

1:13:09

Ty Henderson, D.R. Ballinger, and Miles

1:13:11

H. We'll see you next time.

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