0:00

Hey,

0:04

this is Dere' and welcome to Pod Save

0:06

the People. In this episode, it's me, Kaya,

0:08

D'Ara, and Miles talking about the

0:10

news that you don't know with regard to race,

0:12

justice, and equity. This is another episode where I

0:14

learned so much that I didn't know before we

0:17

started. New interviews are coming next month. Here we

0:19

go. Family,

0:25

welcome to another episode of Pod Save

0:27

the People. I am D'Ara Ballinger. You

0:29

can find me on Instagram at D'Ara

0:32

Ballinger. I'm Miles E.

0:34

Johnson. You can find me on Instagram,

0:36

Twitter, threads, TikTok at Pharoah Rapture. I'm

0:39

Kaya Henderson on Twitter at Henderson Kaya.

0:43

And this is Dere' at D'Ara on Twitter. This

0:46

is controversial. For some of you, it's

0:48

Thanksgiving. For others, it's Indigenous

0:50

People's Day. For others, you

0:52

really don't care because, you know, sometimes

0:54

families are complicated and you'd rather not. Anyhow,

0:57

we were on a break last week and now we're back.

1:00

But I am grateful to be back with the crew. So let's

1:06

get into it. Some

1:08

of us had very controversial holidays

1:11

like Puff, Sean,

1:13

Daddy, Diddy, Holmes. Also

1:18

known as Brother Love. Brother Love.

1:22

Okay. That's where he's going by now. That's what be

1:24

Uncle Rikers. He's playing around. Miles.

1:30

Not

1:32

just him, him and a whole lot of

1:35

other people. A lot of other people. And

1:37

so what's happening is under the New

1:41

York Adult Survivors Act is that survivors

1:43

of assault, sexual assault in particular, are

1:45

able to bring cases that they wouldn't

1:47

have been able to bring otherwise because

1:50

they'd have been barred by time limits

1:52

and statute of limitations. But Sean

1:55

Combs, Harvey Pierre,

1:58

Axel Rose, Russell Brand, Jimmy I've

2:00

seen Cuba Gooding Jr. Why

2:02

Jamie Foxx on this list? Jamie

2:05

Foxx. Nothing

2:07

is sacred baby. Nothing. Man, man,

2:09

only. More

2:12

than 2,500 lawsuits have been filed under

2:15

this law so far. So,

2:18

oh man, these lawyers and PR

2:20

machines are gonna be making all kinds

2:22

of monies. But

2:24

we saw what happened with Cassie and

2:27

Diddy. Cassie pursued a lawsuit against him

2:29

and literally the next day they settled.

2:31

We don't know what they

2:34

settled for, what the particulars

2:36

of that settlement was, but

2:39

it must have been real good, good, good, good, good.

2:41

I read somewhere that it was a nine figure

2:45

settlement. I don't even know

2:47

how many figures, what does that even mean? Like

2:50

tens of millions of dollars? That's

2:52

like a hundred million dollars. It's like a

2:54

hundred million dollars. Which

2:58

is a lot more expensive than the 30 million

3:01

as she was allegedly asking for before the lawsuit.

3:04

Whoops. And two other

3:06

women have come forward, or two other

3:08

cases I think have come up against

3:10

Puffy. One with Puffy and Aaron Hall.

3:12

That was an interesting name that

3:14

we haven't seen since I don't know when.

3:17

But there's one woman who accused Puffy

3:19

and Aaron Hall of

3:21

sexual assault. LA Reed

3:24

got caught up in this thing

3:28

from the woman who accused

3:31

Russell Simmons of sexually

3:34

assaulting her. And it's a lot,

3:37

Eric Adams, y'all's mayor. Ah,

3:39

it's a lot out there, y'all. And

3:42

you know what's wild about Diddy

3:45

outside of just the

3:48

sheer intensity of the Cassie

3:50

allegations was just how

3:52

many people seemingly knew, right? Like

3:55

you look at the interviews that come

3:57

around. So Diddy's bodyguard posted on Instagram

3:59

saying. He said something like,

4:01

I'm just speaking my truth, the whole bodyguard being like,

4:03

was she so much true? When

4:06

Aaron Hall got accused, there's

4:08

an old Vlad TV interview where Aaron

4:10

Hall talks about the mother

4:13

of his child, Gloria Vallez,

4:16

where he's like, yeah, yeah, I went up and I F-ed her, da

4:18

da da da, she was 16. Yikes.

4:22

I think she had his baby, I think she had the baby when she

4:24

was 17. She posted

4:26

like, finally people are speaking out,

4:28

finally. Somebody else posted, I hadn't

4:30

even considered it. Somebody posted, and

4:33

Gloria Vallez responded to it, but somebody is like, what

4:35

happened to all the kiddie clubs? Like I remember in

4:37

Baltimore, there was like a teen club, there was like

4:39

a kiddie club. And

4:42

Gloria was like, that was grooming. She was

4:44

like, the men who ran those places, they

4:46

were grooming girls. Like it looked like a

4:49

cool public service for cities that

4:51

kids could go and have fun, but she was

4:53

like, we were groomed in those. They

4:55

were grooming facilities. And

4:58

this is all coming to light. This is like,

5:00

finally, I thought that the Russell

5:02

Simmons thing would lead to more and it did not.

5:05

If anything, people like double down on Russell,

5:08

it feels like, and he fled the country. But

5:11

this actually feels like, people

5:13

are being empowered to

5:16

use the legal process to hold people accountable. Yeah,

5:19

to your point, I really hope

5:21

that this is the beginning of

5:23

a real reckoning in hip

5:26

hop and in specifically

5:28

just black entertainment because I

5:30

think that there's

5:33

also often this just like preservation of

5:35

like these black excellent icons and we

5:37

don't want them to ever

5:41

go down and we don't ever want

5:43

their image to be flawed. And it's

5:45

just about time that we tell what's

5:47

really going on. I was watching old

5:49

episodes. Everything has like a

5:52

different point of view once

5:55

you hear certain allegations. I was watching

5:57

old episodes of Making the Band, both Band to

5:59

became said

8:00

in the culture of

8:02

celebrity. But

8:05

I do think that there is, you know, not

8:07

end, like the conspiracies

8:09

that are flying, right? So there

8:11

are all kinds of other

8:13

allegations that have nothing to do with sexual abuse

8:15

that are now popping up. I think it's going

8:18

to be interesting. One question that we

8:20

kept asking was, is like, will he be

8:22

canceled? Will

8:24

artists still want to work with him? Will male

8:26

artists still want to work with him even if

8:29

women don't? Will he

8:31

retain his place? Will he keep his money? What

8:33

do you think is going to happen? Well,

8:37

I did hear that Macy's said they

8:39

will no longer carry Sean John for

8:42

all the people who were by Sean John.

8:44

Let me say, Macy's in like, in certain

8:48

places, that was Sean John

8:50

was what you said was

8:52

you said what? But,

8:55

but yeah, I do think and I

8:57

feel like I've managed to do this

8:59

before, probably multiple times on this podcast,

9:01

that there does seem to be two

9:03

different media happening. And it's

9:05

really easy to see when it comes

9:08

to white people. So we see Roseanne

9:10

and she gets canceled, and then she

9:12

kind of gets absorbed into this Fox

9:15

conservative machine. And

9:18

it's to me obvious that that same

9:20

thing is happening even in black culture,

9:22

where sure, you may not get those

9:24

mainstream opportunities, but there's going to be

9:26

legions of men who agree

9:29

with you, who martyr you,

9:31

and you'll be able to make money

9:33

and make content with those men. So

9:35

don't and don't think that we're just

9:37

going to be escaping his influence is

9:40

going to it's going to change. And

9:42

then unfortunately, those

9:44

men who don't have that black

9:46

mainstream access will be absorbed into

9:49

the conservative, conservative,

9:51

conservative machine as

9:53

well. And you know, I would, it

9:55

might feel like a far stretch, but I would not. I

10:00

could say a future where Diddy is like

10:02

endorsing a conservative candidate or doing other things

10:04

or in other people accused of these things

10:06

are endorsing conservative candidates and conservative

10:09

ideas because that's where their money is now. And

10:11

that's where their popularity is now. So I

10:14

will say the last thing I'll say about Diddy and then I'll

10:16

go to Eric Adams very quickly, but still on this topic is

10:19

that remember that all of the

10:21

women are filing civil cases because

10:23

citizens can't file criminal charges. In

10:26

the specificity of Cassie's complaint

10:29

alone, there

10:31

is something in there that if the

10:33

prosecutor wanted to file anything, just one

10:35

thing, they would have the ability

10:38

to do that. And granted, you

10:40

know, it's so interesting that murder is one

10:42

of the only charges across almost every state

10:44

where there is no statute of limitations, but

10:47

rape is not. In a lot

10:49

of places, there is a statute of limitations

10:51

on rape. So if the prosecutor doesn't file

10:53

within a certain number of years, they

10:56

can't file charges. But I'll be

10:58

interested to see what happens in the criminal. And

11:01

then kind of to your point about giving

11:03

back to masters, remember that that was conditioned

11:05

on them signing an NDA. So

11:08

there were people who did not choose to get their masters

11:10

back because they did not want to sign the NDA. And

11:12

then the mayor of the largest city in

11:15

the country, Eric Adams, was also filed.

11:17

He was hit with a lawsuit for

11:20

sexual assault as well. And it was when

11:22

he was working in the transportation department of

11:24

the city of New York. I don't know

11:26

if you saw this because you would appreciate

11:28

this. Oh, everybody would. Kai, you'd appreciate it

11:30

as a former government employee. Everybody's

11:33

been speculating who's going to represent him because remember,

11:35

he can't use campaign finance funds for the old

11:37

turkey thing. So he like Cassie's.

11:40

So there's like he has started a legal defense fund

11:43

where people are donating to that. That's a problem, an

11:45

ethical problem. But now who's going

11:47

to defend him with this actual assault case because he's a

11:49

mayor. He is saying that

11:51

the city of New York has to defend him because

11:54

he was a city employee. Now

11:56

the problem is that she was a city employee too. So

11:58

everybody's like, well, the city of New York. New York

12:00

defending both of you all in

12:02

this. And that is his legal position

12:04

is that and his the spokesman for the mayor literally

12:06

is like the city of New York, a

12:09

department of law is defending the mayor in this

12:11

and you're like, this man drag him out of

12:13

city hall y'all. That's

12:15

just oh, and then and then did you

12:17

hear that Cuomo is thinking about running as

12:20

Eric Adams gets taken out? Oh, my question.

12:23

Cuomo is field testing a poll

12:26

right now, where he's considering because the way it

12:28

works in New York is if the mayor's removed, or

12:30

is no longer the mayor, the public advocate

12:32

becomes the mayor for 30 days, and then

12:34

they do a special election. And Cuomo has

12:36

said that he will run if if Adams

12:38

is you're like, can we just

12:40

get a whole new crowd of people like

12:42

everybody can do we like I'm like, is

12:44

Lavar Burton busy?

12:46

I can't imagine who can take

12:48

it. But please, can we does

12:50

not have any more predatory people

12:52

and educate me on my ignorance,

12:54

but Cuomo, you have some allegations

12:57

too, right? That's why he's out. I'm

12:59

like, yeah, that doesn't fix that. No,

13:05

that doesn't fix that. Like, go go

13:07

everybody go to sleep and let's get

13:09

some people who, who,

13:12

yeah, I don't know the

13:15

black woman who operates the Empire State Building.

13:17

I just saw her. She seems like a

13:19

good candidate. Somebody who knows what's real and

13:23

who don't got no ties and doesn't

13:25

have any struggles when it comes to power and

13:27

sex. So my news today is

13:29

out of the post. It I

13:33

have to say I've just been looking for glimmers of

13:35

hope wherever I can find them for this upcoming election,

13:37

because I'm just in a real sad, sad

13:40

spot about it. And

13:42

so, you know, the Democratic Party,

13:46

hopefully, we get it

13:48

together, but we got a lot of work

13:50

to do. So I'm like, hey, maybe the

13:52

GOP will just mess it up for themselves.

13:54

And it looks like there may be some

13:56

chances of that. So the post reported that

13:59

donations the GOP have dropped

14:01

significantly, and there's a lot of worry

14:03

across their party about their finances. So

14:05

it looks like donors are not

14:07

cutting as many large checks of the RNC as

14:09

they have in recent years. The

14:14

RNC has disclosed that it had $9.1 million

14:17

in cash on hand as of October 30th,

14:19

which is

14:22

the lowest amount the RNC has had since

14:24

2015, according to an FEC report. That

14:31

amount compares to about the $20 million nearly

14:34

double they had at the same

14:36

time during the 2016 election, and

14:38

$61 million four years ago when

14:40

Trump was in the White House.

14:44

So the RNC has $9.1

14:46

million in cash on hand.

14:48

The DNC has $17.7 million

14:51

as of October 30th, which is almost twice

14:53

as much. And

14:55

so a spokesperson, Oscar

14:57

Brock, an RNC member, said it's a revenue

14:59

problem. They're going through the same efforts as

15:01

they always have to raise money, same

15:04

donor meetings, retreats, digital advertising, direct

15:06

mail, but the return has been

15:08

much lower this year. So

15:12

I don't know. I just brought this to the pod

15:14

because I am just

15:16

happy to see it. And in my

15:18

mind, I think because we are constant

15:21

news cycle over here, always

15:23

watching the news, it always seems like the

15:26

GOP is one step ahead of us

15:28

and doing better with marketing, better with

15:31

press, better with fundraising. And it looks

15:33

to be at this particular moment that

15:35

that is not so. So

15:38

yeah, I'll take it. I'll take whatever I can

15:41

get. And it's interesting to see maybe that there

15:44

hasn't been a lot of

15:46

fanfare around the presidential candidates,

15:48

which if you haven't been

15:50

paying attention, it's Chris Christie,

15:53

Nikki Haley, Ron DeSantis, Vivek

15:57

Ramzimwamy. and

16:00

Tim Scott recently dropped out, I think a few

16:03

weeks ago, we covered that. So interesting

16:05

to see, we'll continue to cover it, but

16:07

it looks like it's a little bit womp

16:09

womp over on GOP side, which I will

16:11

take. You know, what's interesting about

16:13

this is that it reminded me of how

16:15

much the storytelling and what we

16:18

consume in the

16:21

media shapes our understanding of power, because

16:24

the R this blew my mind, like

16:26

totally that the

16:28

sheer amount of energy that they

16:31

just continue to take up in the

16:34

media landscape is actually pretty impressive, giving

16:36

up the numbers are down. Because

16:38

I hear so much about Trump still,

16:40

I hear a lot about DeSantis. I

16:43

am not tracking, I have never searched for Nikki

16:45

Haley in my life. I know

16:47

what's going on when she says the

16:50

VVAC guy didn't even know he existed.

16:52

But he shows up on my social

16:54

so much and they the GOP strategy

16:57

is actually just so present that I

16:59

literally like, in

17:01

my mind, they're making record breaking numbers like

17:04

they are not down, they are more powerful

17:06

than they've ever been. So

17:08

this blew my mind. I'm happy you brought it

17:10

but it was a it really pushed me to

17:12

be like, Oh, this storytelling is doing

17:14

something to the way I think about who has what and

17:17

how in a way that's really screwy.

17:20

Yeah, that kind of is what's going to happen

17:22

when you court poor white people because you poor

17:25

white people are poor. And

17:28

you're not going to

17:30

get the funding. But like, I think and

17:32

again, I feel like I said this before

17:34

in the podcast, I'm really wondering and curious

17:37

and curious about the new conservative movement and

17:39

how it's going to happen. Because I just

17:41

know it's a matter of time because I

17:43

think the Trump is

17:45

of everything is so extreme that I

17:48

know that there's like other people who

17:50

are conservative who are saying like, I can't we're

17:52

not supporting this, we're looking for something new. And

17:55

I think that is the wave that I will

17:57

be most concerned about would it be like the

18:00

people who are still supporting this like, this

18:02

clownery. It's when somebody with a

18:05

sound mind, when the new Reagan

18:07

comes, you know, when somebody with

18:09

a who feels sound, who feels

18:12

like actual conservative comes

18:14

again and just like energizes

18:16

everybody and who's in a

18:18

conservative party, that to me is like what

18:20

I'm most scared about. But it seems right

18:23

on tracks that people would be seeing specifically

18:25

after a Trump presidency. Like it makes sense

18:27

to me that people are seeing that this

18:29

is not something to support and

18:31

we're gonna hold our money until somebody

18:33

comes around that excites

18:36

us. Yeah,

18:38

and I think this is interesting to watch.

18:40

And Doree, you're right, unless you are

18:43

following this, the narrative is

18:45

very different, but either sometime this fall

18:47

or maybe late in the summer, Ron

18:50

DeSantis' largest donor pulled out. He had

18:52

given him like $20 million, right? And

18:55

people are really wary. I think the

18:58

moderates in the GOP recognize that all

19:00

of this extremism is not going to

19:02

win. And so I think if they're

19:04

like, if we gonna lose, then we

19:07

gonna keep our money in our pockets.

19:10

And so I do think it'll be interesting to

19:12

figure out because none of

19:14

the Republican candidates beyond

19:16

Trump are actually mounting enough of

19:19

a campaign to get anybody behind

19:21

any one of them. So

19:23

it'll be interesting to watch them continue

19:26

to tear each other up and to

19:28

figure out where the money both is gonna

19:30

come from and who it's gonna go to. But

19:33

like you, Doree, I'm like, great, tear

19:35

each other apart. Let us all sit

19:37

back and watch because

19:40

the moral arc of the universe bends

19:43

towards justice. And

19:48

just to remind us that running

19:50

a presidential campaign costs about a

19:52

billion dollars. And

19:55

that money's gotta come from somewhere. So I

19:57

think if they're scrambling to try to figure

19:59

out. out how to raise that money right

20:01

now. It speaks volumes of what

20:04

they're going to have to do in

20:06

the coming months. And all these polls that we're

20:08

seeing about, you know, an increase, whether it's

20:10

an increase in Latino voters or increase in

20:13

black voters going to that side, you still have to

20:15

have that money to get out the vote. So the

20:17

polls can say what they want, but you got to be

20:19

able to get those people to the polls. The

20:22

M92DR, it pushed me to really

20:24

think about like the in-kind support,

20:26

because baby, the media coverage they're

20:28

getting is priceless. They

20:30

might not be paying for it, but they

20:33

are being covered. But that, I

20:35

think that's the part, and this is what

20:38

I've been thinking a lot about over the last

20:40

weeks is like, and especially, you know, with

20:44

the way the administration has handled Gaza and

20:46

Israel and just,

20:48

you know, just where

20:51

we are politically, socially in terms

20:53

of our humanity and

20:55

how that's going to impact the election. And

20:59

if, you know, if

21:01

the GOP wins because

21:03

of so many reasons, the

21:06

media does better and liberal

21:09

media does better. Organizers,

21:12

nonprofit organizations that are

21:14

justice, movement organizations, they will get more

21:16

money. So there

21:19

is really an analysis

21:21

to be done around who

21:23

is really, who is really, you

21:28

know, who really has something at stake when it comes to

21:30

this upcoming election if the

21:32

conservatives win. And

21:34

oftentimes, in my mind, the people that

21:37

are the loudest against the administration or

21:39

the loudest saying, we're going to use

21:41

our vote as a protest have

21:45

the least to lose. I

21:48

have a little question for my smart

21:51

friends. So do you think, because,

21:54

you know, as 2024 gets closer, you

21:56

know, I get more

21:59

fearful. So do you think that

22:01

because of the things that are happening, let's

22:03

say, I'm just using, I mean, not just,

22:05

it's a huge deal, but like the Palestine-Israel

22:08

thing and how that's influencing people who usually

22:10

are like less leaning and now we're like

22:12

seeing this and like now we're seeing this

22:14

when it comes to both campaign dollars, but

22:16

just your average conservative being

22:18

out of, you know, out of just

22:21

not liking where the GOP is going.

22:23

Do you think that we are, you

22:25

think next year's election is going

22:27

to be like really close, like, like, I know

22:30

nobody can know, but just put like, I guess predictions. Do

22:32

you think it's going to be really close to

22:36

doing everything? I

22:39

just think it's too early. I think that, I

22:41

think that none of us had anticipated a zero-gazza

22:43

to happen, right? That like the

22:46

world could substantively change in between now

22:48

and the actual election cycle next year.

22:50

And I think whatever the most recent thing is

22:53

will be the thing. I think

22:55

the storytelling around Trump is so

22:57

old, like it's a played out.

22:59

I mean, he's wild, but the

23:01

storytelling to people in their living

23:03

rooms hasn't changed. Like they don't

23:06

experience it. Like I looked

23:08

up and yesterday, I don't know if you saw Trump said that he's

23:10

going to get rid of Obamacare. There

23:12

are a ton of people whose lives would be

23:14

fundamentally different if that happened. Black and

23:17

brown, they would be in a different world if

23:19

the only healthcare they could get would be their

23:21

employer. White people too. White people too. They

23:23

will be down bad. But like

23:26

there's a part of Obamacare that people don't understand

23:28

that like the idea that you can go to

23:30

exchange is a new, that is new. That's like

23:32

my lifetime. That's like my adulthood that happened.

23:34

Do you know what I mean? Yeah,

23:37

I agree. I think it's way too early to

23:39

tell. There's also all the dish

23:41

Trump lawsuits stuff that will play out over

23:43

the coming months. Like there are too many

23:45

things that can swing this

23:47

thing in one direction or the other. But

23:49

I think if the election was happening today,

23:51

it would be very close. I

23:55

also just want us to think about this a

23:58

little bit more locally in terms of... of

24:00

who has what roles at the White

24:02

House and who is on our National

24:04

Security Council. I think part of this

24:06

is like, we think, you know, it's

24:08

Biden in there all on his own,

24:10

making all the decisions. And, you know,

24:12

the buck does stop with him. But

24:15

I think we really need to push this administration to

24:17

be like, all those

24:19

white dudes can't be sitting

24:21

around the table making decisions

24:23

when they are so far

24:25

from the people. Like if

24:27

you went to Yale four times, chances

24:30

are we're not going to see eye

24:32

to eye on a whole lot of things. So I think

24:34

that's what we need to start doing. It's like, who is

24:36

up in there? Like, let's take the top off of that

24:38

and start looking in there and start pressing the administration to

24:40

have more diversity, more

24:42

perspective, more people that

24:44

actually have had life

24:46

experiences that reflect who

24:49

we all are and where we

24:51

all have come from. So I'll leave it back because

24:53

that's just what I've been thinking a lot about is

24:56

that it's actually not that big of a

24:58

problem if we get to solving,

25:01

you know, just getting getting really getting

25:03

into the nitty gritty of making

25:06

me fit. I

25:09

think you're right. I'll tell you, I was in, I was

25:11

in Atlanta and I got my haircut in Atlanta. And

25:13

I of course was talking to the barber

25:15

about cop city, the police, the

25:18

$90 million, 80 freighter police

25:20

training facility and his pushes. We're

25:22

excellent. My job talks

25:24

about this a lot. I've heard about a lot.

25:26

But like what he said, he was literally like,

25:28

but I thought y'all wanted training. And

25:30

I was like, I mean, yeah, but not the and he

25:33

was like, did they release a training curriculum yet? And

25:35

I was like, no, he was like, Oh, that don't make sense. Like that

25:38

I'm making all these arguments. And he was like, did they

25:40

release a new plan for the training or just to build

25:42

it? He was like, well, that don't make sense. And it

25:44

was like, it is so you

25:46

know, like we can spend so much

25:48

time with people who study and study

25:50

these issues and that we sometimes miss

25:52

the actual thing that is moving people. Hey,

25:56

you're listening to Potsy the People. Stay tuned. There's

25:58

more to come. Today

26:01

is the last day of our holiday sale.

26:03

You have until midnight to grab your favorite

26:05

Crooked items. Everything is 20% off. We

26:08

haven't been this excited since we first saw Trump's

26:10

mugshot. Head to crooked.com/store

26:12

to shop now. So

26:21

you all, and I know that

26:23

I'm probably talking to people who

26:25

are well versed in this topic I'm

26:28

going to bring out, but it has

26:30

come to my attention that it begs to be

26:32

repeated and further explored

26:34

and rehashed because we seem to

26:36

forget. We are talking about menstrual

26:39

seizure. This

26:44

came by my imaginary desk, not

26:46

literally, aka my iPhone. But it

26:49

came by my imaginary desk because

26:51

I saw this

26:53

kind of boom in content

26:55

from YouTubers, social media influencers

26:58

who kind of get their

27:01

notoriety from critiquing

27:03

culture, talking about

27:05

menstrual seizure and connecting

27:07

certain things that we're seeing

27:09

on TikTok that are going

27:11

viral that are comedic videos

27:13

that are actually regurgitating menstrual

27:15

seizure. And I was thinking

27:17

because of DeRay's last enlightening

27:20

critique on Whoopi Goldberg's history,

27:22

that maybe we're in a

27:24

spot in history where people

27:26

don't necessarily know where entertainment

27:28

comes from. Like entertainment is

27:30

not an alien ship that

27:32

landed in America and said,

27:34

Hey, you all, we

27:37

know you've been going through slavery

27:39

and, uh, and, and, and genocides

27:41

and all this other stuff. So

27:43

we're going to plant this entertainment, uh,

27:46

mothership on you all so you can be

27:48

free. No, it has a legacy from child

27:50

slavery, has a legacy from the genocide, from

27:53

those genocides. And it is a,

27:55

it is a performance art that

27:57

helps perpetuate those things. That's

27:59

what it is. and our entertainment's founded on.

28:01

So I actually brought two articles

28:04

that to me intertwine. The

28:07

first one is from history.com because we

28:09

gotta know our history. Thomas Dartmouth Rice,

28:11

an actor born in New York, is

28:14

considered the father of minstrelsy. After

28:16

reportedly traveling to the South and observing

28:18

slaves, Rice developed a black stage character

28:21

called Jim Crow in 1830. With

28:24

quick dance moves and exaggerated

28:26

African-American vernacular and buffoonish behavior,

28:29

Rice founded a new genre of

28:31

racialized song and dance, black-faced minstrel

28:34

shows, which became central to American

28:36

entertainment in the North and South.

28:38

White performers, hold on, in

28:41

the North and the South. Okay.

28:43

White performers in black face play

28:46

characters that perpetuated a range of

28:48

negative stereotypes about African-Americans, including being

28:51

lazy, ignorant, superstitious, hyper-sexual, criminal, or

28:53

cowardly. Several characters in minstrel shows

28:55

became archetypes as described in the

28:58

University of Florida digital exhibit, History

29:00

of Minstrels from Jim Crow to the

29:03

Jazz Singer. Some of the most famous

29:05

ones were Rice and Jim Crow, a

29:07

rural dancing fool in tattered clothing, the

29:09

Mammy, an overweight and loud mother figure,

29:11

and Zip Cone, a flamboyant dress man

29:13

who used sophisticated words incorrectly. Most of

29:15

the minstrels show actors were working class

29:17

Irishmen from the Northeast who performed in

29:20

black face to distance themselves from their

29:22

own lower social, political, and economic status

29:24

in the United States, says Lennart. So

29:26

also you have to remember that this

29:28

was something that was adopted by other

29:30

poor white people to separate themselves

29:33

in the culture and put themselves above black people

29:36

when class and money couldn't do it. So

29:38

they used entertainment and culture to create

29:41

that separation. They

29:43

did it to authenticate their whiteness, he says.

29:45

It was the same as saying we can

29:47

become the other and mock the other and

29:49

assert our superiority by

29:51

dehumanizing the other. This

29:54

to me was so

29:56

essential because we are in an era where

29:59

there are. are some

30:02

women rappers who are dancing and twerking next

30:04

to chicken. There are some people who are

30:07

on TikTok who are calling themselves

30:09

a dancing gorilla. And it makes

30:11

me think maybe we don't know

30:14

where we come from and what stereotypes

30:16

we fought hard to not perpetuate. And

30:19

if we are going to absorb ourselves

30:21

into those stereotypes, are we thinking critically

30:23

enough that we're subverting them and we're

30:25

saying something inside of them and we're

30:27

trojering horsing these stereotypes to say something

30:29

more radical or are we just sticking

30:31

to the script that was handed to

30:33

us in 1830? So

30:36

we're going to fast forward to the Refinery29 article

30:38

where it describes a series of

30:41

TikTok users who won, I'm trying

30:43

not to name their names because

30:45

I think these are young-ish kids

30:50

and grown people who want class mobility

30:52

and who find making people laugh is

30:54

giving them class mobility. So I'm trying

30:57

not to name their names, but I'm

30:59

just going to describe the actions, right?

31:01

So one person is a big black

31:03

man who goes places and

31:05

calls himself a dancing gorilla and just

31:07

starts dancing and smiling in front of

31:09

people of all races. But oftentimes it

31:12

is around the white people that it

31:14

gets most of the most viral

31:17

hits because of the contrast

31:21

of this big black man

31:23

dancing and smiling against these unsuspecting,

31:27

dining white people. The

31:29

other person is somebody

31:31

who eats food, specifically

31:34

chicken, and acts

31:38

overzealous and excited about eating this

31:41

chicken. And this too gets a

31:43

lot of

31:45

attention. And again, I wanted to take

31:47

it out of just TikTok. Those were

31:49

the TikTok social

31:51

media examples, but I'm going to take

31:54

it a step further and describe, oh,

31:56

if you are a black woman and

31:58

you are using your sexuality to

32:00

sell chicken that is a form

32:02

of minstrelsy modern-day minstrelsy if you

32:04

are a black man and you're

32:07

using your power influence

32:10

in order to sell liquor that is

32:13

a form of minstrelsy that is

32:15

a sticking to those scripts and

32:17

I wanted

32:19

to bring this to the podcast because

32:22

I wonder where this disconnect happens is

32:24

it because we're so desperate for money

32:26

and for fame that we bypass and

32:28

we just stick to what's work stick

32:31

to what's work are we

32:33

ignorant about what works and why it works

32:35

are we do we not know that there

32:37

is a embedded love

32:39

and lust for dehumanizing ourselves and

32:41

anti-intellectualism that can that can bring

32:44

profit are we ignorant of that

32:46

and that's why we're willing to

32:48

perpetuate it or

32:51

do we see it do we know it and

32:53

that's a devil that we're willing to dance with

32:55

in order to get our personal finances

32:58

our personal fame and

33:00

of course that's scary to think

33:02

about so my hope

33:04

is that people are just ignorant to it anyhow

33:08

once I bring that to the podcast

33:11

wanted to have this little short conversation

33:13

around the minstrelsy and

33:17

maybe even looking at the things that

33:19

we're consuming and maybe further contextualizing as

33:21

minstrelsy because I know that sometimes you

33:23

know I'm big on calling

33:26

things job turkeys and saying you

33:30

you you you you I don't know if it's a

33:32

curse word but y'all believe it out but like saying

33:34

you're a coon or something like that I'm big on

33:36

it because my mom was born in 1916 all my

33:38

family are like job turkeys but ex-wife Panthers and that's

33:40

how they speak and I'm always

33:43

making sure that I'm not just raining

33:45

on a parade or taking up the

33:47

fun and some stuff but once I

33:49

see people asking a fool over chicken

33:51

or twerking to sell liquor and and

33:53

and and McDonald's and Popeyes meals I

33:55

wonder did we miss did we miss

33:58

something Are

34:00

we not understanding our own history and

34:02

entertainment? Do we not understand the history

34:05

of entertainment and how that history is

34:07

a living organism that will morph, that

34:10

will exploit you and that will find a

34:12

new way to exploit you in the same

34:14

old way. You know, there's a lot different

34:16

between certain people that you see in media

34:19

and Sarah Bartman, but there's a lot to

34:21

see. It's still a

34:23

sexual driven freak show, but now we

34:25

have different music and different lyrics, but

34:27

it's still the same thing. I'm

34:31

gonna put a button in it with sexy red.

34:34

This is what really pushed me out of, I'm

34:36

saying her name, but

34:39

the video of her inside

34:42

the jail with

34:44

men around her who were

34:46

in orange jumpsuits

34:48

and her saying as a

34:51

pregnant woman has clothes saying

34:53

free my baby daddy, free

34:55

him, while other inmates

34:58

were around her dancing, that

35:00

makes me feel like we're losing

35:03

recipes, chapters to books, television

35:05

shows, LaVar

35:08

Burton, please, we need you

35:10

in here. We need

35:12

somebody, bell hooks ghost, we need your

35:14

hauntings. Like there's things that are being

35:16

missed if

35:19

we're to the point in 2023 where somebody

35:21

is willing to be in the middle of a

35:24

prison dancing for pretend

35:26

inmates as they are pregnant,

35:29

half naked and

35:32

willing to put that out to the public.

35:34

I think we get some stuff. So I

35:36

don't know if you saw Kyson at the

35:38

streamer who again, I missed, I only know

35:41

him because he appears on the blogs, but

35:43

he is popular amongst the kids. He

35:45

did that 24 hour live thing for

35:47

a couple of days or like a

35:49

week maybe where he was in a

35:51

prison. So all these famous

35:53

people visited him in the prison and it was

35:56

obviously not a real prison, but they were incarcerated

35:58

in air quotes. And they filmed it

36:01

24 hours. So NLE, like one of the big

36:03

rappers, I can't even remember, NLE or

36:05

me, one of them, Jerski came by,

36:07

like all these people came by and

36:09

visited them and participated in the jail

36:11

experience as it was live streamed. And

36:13

that really was like, okay, this is,

36:16

something's broken. But Miles, the

36:18

first thing that I thought of, and I'll keep

36:20

this short, is that, you know, you

36:22

talk about the history of it and what is,

36:25

what I am reminded is that

36:27

not only was it culturally relevant,

36:29

but it was commercially profitable. So

36:32

mental C was not just like a form of,

36:34

a path of entertainment, it was a form of

36:37

income. And I think that

36:39

what we have not explored in

36:41

public as well is how despite

36:43

the critique, it is still currency,

36:46

it is still profitable. So

36:49

that guy who is like dancing and calls

36:51

himself the black gorilla, it's like, you

36:54

are participating in the economic

36:57

benefits of mental C, if

36:59

we can even call it that, but

37:01

that people for whatever reason have chosen

37:04

to eschew the cultural tragedy

37:06

of it and participate in

37:08

the economic system of it, which is,

37:10

you know, insert capitalism here, like this

37:12

is advanced capitalism seminar, senior seminar. Y'all,

37:15

I feel like such an old lady, because I have

37:17

much, I mean, and, you know, we

37:22

wanna take the extremes,

37:25

right? The man who calls himself

37:27

a gorilla and is dancing and the,

37:29

you know, guy who's eating

37:31

chicken in front of everybody, but it's

37:34

also us pulling our hair and throwing

37:36

crap on each other on these reality

37:38

shows and fighting and all of

37:40

this is mental C, all

37:43

of these things that reinforce the worst stereotypes

37:45

about us and I agree

37:47

with the right. I think people are like,

37:49

whatever, I'm making the cash. And

37:53

I'm a celebrity influencer. And

37:55

that is, you know, that's what

37:57

you get when everything. You

38:00

know when the currency is social media,

38:02

that's what you get when the currency

38:04

is celebrity We don't we

38:06

don't actually reward people appropriately

38:09

for doing things that uplift

38:11

the culture and that you know

38:13

contribute to society because we so

38:15

busy, you know making

38:18

a reign on the people who make us

38:20

look as terrible as possible and

38:23

that is a lesson that the young

38:25

people they're like look minstrelsly all you

38:27

want, but she has more money than you

38:29

do and You

38:31

know, I don't even know how we respond to

38:33

young people at this point I

38:40

think it's so interesting. I remember My

38:43

else this takes me back to

38:46

one of my black studies classes at college Because

38:49

we did a whole thing around Cultural

38:53

black cultural images on TV, but back then it was like, you

38:55

know, black folks had a bunch of shows on

38:58

Fox There was Martin there was living single there

39:00

was in living color there

39:02

were and I remember Like

39:05

those those are examples

39:07

of shows that I wish were still around to this day But I remember

39:10

having a critique back then around how some of that could be akin to

39:12

minstrelsly And

39:15

but but I think the through line through it was it

39:17

it was on a white network So

39:20

I feel like anytime blackness interacts with

39:22

white stream main culture pop culture That's

39:28

when that's when it gets icky Right.

39:31

So whether that's our music whether

39:33

that's our dance whether any any black

39:36

expression I feel like as soon as it touches those

39:38

waters of capitalism Of

39:40

you know mainstream production companies TV studios, etc,

39:42

etc That's

39:47

when it all gets Murky,

39:50

so and I think for social media, it's

39:52

like if this is a platform And

39:55

I think that's a really interesting question I think it's

39:57

a really interesting question I think it's a

39:59

really interesting question I mean, black people

40:01

are so brilliant at, you

40:03

know, making something their own. But at the

40:06

end of the day, the platform is still

40:08

a white capitalist

40:10

platform. So how

40:13

much flexibility is there? Yes.

40:17

You know, a true cultural expression. So

40:19

it's just very, very, very interesting.

40:22

You know, what the thing to think of too, is

40:24

I saw a member Esther Roll who plays Florida Evans.

40:27

There was a, did y'all see the interview that went

40:30

on? It was, I saw it this weekend where she

40:32

talks about how she fought really hard to have

40:34

a husband on the show. And

40:37

that, and what she says is that she's

40:39

like, I'm the birth of the black father

40:41

entertainment, because she said she was

40:43

going to pull out of the show if she did

40:46

not have a thought, like if there was not a

40:48

husband for her and a black father and that she

40:50

was dismayed, and like she has another place to talk

40:52

about, she was dismayed about

40:55

the popularity of the JJ

40:57

character and that

41:00

the guy who played Mr. Evans was

41:02

also dismayed. He, because of him

41:05

being pressured by the popularity of the minstrelsy

41:07

of the JJ character, he was actually let

41:09

go. You know, she had, she stayed on

41:11

for a while because she was, I mean, it was hard to do

41:13

that show without her, but I had

41:15

never even thought about what it was like to,

41:18

that he was the first black father. That is

41:20

like, you know, the first main street big black

41:22

father on shows. And Kai goes to

41:24

your point about, yes, do

41:26

we have drama in our community?

41:28

Absolutely. Right. Like nobody has

41:31

drama free ever go drama. But what

41:33

happens when there is an intentional effort

41:35

to exclude representations of community

41:37

that are the things that birthed us like black

41:39

people loved us. You know what I mean? Like

41:42

black people loved on us without many

41:44

resources and did it really well. And we had a

41:46

lot of fun and joy. And like, that is actually

41:48

what you don't see. But Lord knows you see movies

41:50

about white people walking down the street and

41:52

getting into a boat and that's two hours worth of the film.

41:55

You're like, is that the whole movie? Wait, is that just enough

41:57

to sit in a. I'm

42:00

just saying, all of them. I

42:04

can think about it. I watched this horror movie

42:06

that was literally like, and she woke up. You're

42:08

like, that's the, you're like, get me out of

42:10

here. These are white people that have mundane movies

42:12

about their lives and

42:14

about the range of life. But it's compromised.

42:17

I think that's the other thing. And I

42:19

think, you know, and I don't want to just put it on

42:22

white people. Obviously lots of blame goes

42:24

there, but folks like Diddy,

42:29

folks that are now have

42:31

clout, money, success and access,

42:34

and still create conditions

42:36

where black folks have to compromise to make

42:38

money. Like it's

42:40

just, I think Miles, that's the

42:42

other piece of it, right? It's like when

42:44

our people sign up

42:47

to compromise, and when our people sign up

42:50

to offer us up. I'm so

42:52

glad you said that because that, in

42:54

what you and DeRay were just talking about,

42:57

is what was in my mind. Whereas I

42:59

think that what disturbs me so much is,

43:01

we were so often able to say, this

43:03

network is doing it. So in our imaginations,

43:05

you get a black girl, and you take

43:07

her, and these white executives craft her into

43:09

this over-sexualized stereotype. So it's almost like, well,

43:12

what could she do? What's kind of disturbing

43:14

is now you have these people who have

43:16

all the access to do what they want,

43:18

and they're not just turning up and being,

43:20

this is still whatever, but like, they're not

43:22

just turning up and being like, Eric

43:25

if I do, or Jill, like whatever. They're

43:28

just adopting what was

43:30

happening by their own authority,

43:33

the creative authority. Nobody pushed them to do that

43:36

or made them do that. They picked up the

43:38

phone and said, this is what works, and me

43:40

calling myself a dancing gorilla, and me doing this

43:42

work, and I'm willing to perpetuate this, and Popeye

43:45

didn't make me do this. I'm doing it so

43:47

I can get Popeyes. It

43:50

is absolutely fascinating. I'm reading Sheila

43:53

Johnson's biography right now, Through the

43:55

Fire, which also traces the rise

43:58

of black entertainment, And

44:00

she goes on and we all know

44:02

the critiques of how BET

44:05

started out to be a unique

44:07

venue for programming for African

44:10

American culture and very

44:12

quickly became the twerkum, you know,

44:15

misogynistic blah, blah,

44:17

behemoth. And she talks

44:19

a lot about the dynamics in their marriage

44:21

where she wanted to do news shows and

44:23

she wanted to do things that were culturally

44:25

uplifting. And at Bob Johnson, prides himself on

44:27

being a businessman. And for him, it's just

44:30

about the bottom line. The bottom

44:32

line was videos of naked girls

44:34

and, you know, whatever, because that's

44:36

what made money. And so back

44:38

around to this economic imperative, I

44:40

mean, America has taught

44:42

us that rugged individualism, capitalism is

44:44

what we should pursue. And in

44:46

fact, our community teaches us something

44:48

very different. And

44:51

you know, it is a fight

44:53

every day in our schools, in

44:55

our community institutions, in our families

44:57

to help our young people understand

44:59

that that does not serve us

45:01

well. Y'all

45:04

got me feeling old out here in these streets.

45:06

Can I bring y'all some news from West

45:08

Africa, please? Because sometimes you've got to

45:11

get off of these shores in order

45:13

to find a little inspiration. Why us

45:15

away? Don't

45:20

go anywhere. More positive people. Hello,

45:22

guys. Today,

45:38

my news is coming from Togo

45:40

in West Africa, a tiny little

45:42

sliver of a country where

45:46

I found an article about

45:49

their approach to therapy,

45:52

which, as you know, in most

45:55

black communities is underutilized

45:58

and not non- usually

46:00

accepted, but they

46:03

have come up with a novel

46:05

way to deal with the therapy

46:07

crisis in West Africa by training

46:09

hairdressers. So 150 hairdressers in

46:11

West and Central Africa

46:14

have received mental health training to

46:17

support the general population. In

46:19

the whole country of Togo, there are

46:21

only five psychiatrists, like five

46:23

for a whole country. And

46:26

there are lots of mental health

46:29

issues. In fact, Africa, according to

46:31

the World Health Organization, has

46:33

the highest suicide rate in the world and

46:36

some of the lowest public expenditures on

46:38

mental health. Why are people in

46:40

Africa having such mental

46:43

health crises? Well, there are

46:45

violent conflicts in Sudan and

46:47

Somalia. We're talking a lot

46:49

about what's happening in the Middle East

46:51

right now, but not talking

46:53

about what's happening in Africa, where

46:56

people in Sudan and

46:58

Somalia and in the Democratic

47:00

Republic of Congo and Ethiopia

47:02

and the Sahel region are

47:04

all experiencing conflict right now.

47:07

There's rising drug use in large

47:09

cities. There's widespread youth unemployment. There's

47:11

displacement from the extreme effects of

47:13

climate change and there's soaring inflation.

47:16

All hell is breaking loose on

47:18

the continent, y'all, and people have mental

47:20

health issues. And so

47:23

a woman who runs the

47:25

Blue Mind Foundation, who

47:28

actually was the recipient of significant

47:31

therapy after her husband

47:33

was killed, realized that

47:36

women, especially the

47:39

African women, needed

47:41

some support mentally.

47:43

There's a quote and article that

47:45

said, people just need attention in this world.

47:48

And so they chose hairdressers because that's

47:50

where the women are. In

47:53

spite of how poor folks

47:56

might be, the cultural values

47:58

around beauty still stay.

48:00

And so women go to

48:02

hairdressers and the hairdressers

48:04

have been trained. They do a three-day training.

48:07

They learn to ask open-ended

48:09

questions. They teach people how to not gossip

48:12

and not give bad advice. We could use a

48:14

little bit of that around here. They

48:17

help people understand

48:20

how to look for nonverbal signs

48:22

of distress. And

48:26

I brought this to

48:28

the—and there are examples in the article

48:31

about ladies, both the hairdressers and

48:33

the clients, whose

48:35

lives are changed precipitously from what is a

48:38

really simple idea. I brought this to the

48:40

pod because I think

48:42

it is something that we can learn from. We've

48:45

seen initiatives where books are

48:48

in barbershops or we're utilizing

48:50

hairdressers and salons

48:52

to get the word out about really

48:54

important things to our communities. But

48:57

it just reminded me that sometimes

48:59

the solutions are not really complicated.

49:02

Sometimes the solutions are really simple.

49:05

It reminded me that you don't always need a

49:08

whole bunch of PhDs and trained

49:10

people to do things, that the

49:12

resources and the solutions are usually

49:15

already in our communities if we

49:17

just leverage them differently and

49:19

deploy them differently. And

49:23

I was, you

49:25

know, on—there's a page

49:29

that I follow on Instagram called Black

49:31

Liturgies that I'm sure many of you

49:34

are familiar with. But this

49:36

past week, there were a

49:38

couple of bell hooks quotes

49:41

in the Black Liturgies post. And

49:44

one that really stuck out for me reads,

49:48

we have to be aware of

49:50

the extent to which liberal individualism

49:52

has actually been an assault on

49:55

community when the genuine

49:57

staff of life is our

49:59

interdependency. is our capacity to

50:01

feel both with and for ourselves and

50:03

other people. It just reminded

50:05

me that our liberation, our healing, our

50:08

joy, our

50:12

salvation is tied up

50:14

with one another, with our family members,

50:16

which many of us spent time with

50:18

family and friends over the Thanksgiving holiday.

50:20

That's healing. With our

50:22

hairdressers and our

50:24

barbers, we are healed.

50:28

And this is community, right? This

50:31

is what America tries to make us

50:33

run away from. And so in

50:36

this holiday season, I want us

50:38

to run towards, run towards the people that

50:40

we love and the people who love us.

50:42

I want us to talk to the hairdressers

50:44

and the barbers. I want us to get

50:46

healed together. That's my news. Okay.

50:50

Okay. This is

50:52

the okay. It's given Kaya

50:54

Henderson Winfrey that really that

50:58

really warmed me because

51:00

what it makes, what it also makes me

51:03

think about and this

51:05

might be a little sloppy, but I feel like this,

51:08

we're in a safe space. Just

51:10

us and you know, thousands of

51:12

people, but, but I'm fucking to say

51:14

space that I have been

51:16

wondering cause this self care mental

51:18

health conversation that's been happening. I

51:20

was been wondering how they actually

51:23

broken out of the, the, the,

51:26

the class distinctions in America.

51:28

So meaning if black, who's

51:31

talking about self care, who's talking about mental

51:33

health, who are they talking about it to

51:35

and who has access to those things? And

51:37

are we doing enough as

51:39

economically privileged black people

51:42

in America? Are we doing

51:44

enough to make sure that people who don't have

51:46

access to that and don't

51:48

and don't have the resources

51:53

to that? Are we making sure that we're

51:55

being that bridge or are we just

51:57

kind of continuously talking to ourselves about ourselves?

52:00

with the same people who don't necessarily

52:02

have those same economic problems. And then

52:04

what this article did for me too,

52:06

would say the other project is there

52:09

are other people, globally,

52:11

black people who need this

52:13

care too, because what

52:15

is the mental state of somebody who is,

52:17

who's going through what's happening in Congo? You

52:20

know, and sure,

52:23

you know, us being, you

52:25

know, I'm just, this has not been said

52:28

by anyone on this panel, but thinking through

52:30

things I've seen at these mental health seminars

52:32

and panels and stuff, but being the only

52:34

black person in the room and do, and

52:37

all these other kind of like individualistic things

52:39

and capitalist driven things that we, that hinder

52:41

our mental health. Sure, those things are real,

52:44

but the project is for

52:46

us to figure that

52:48

out, be a better community

52:50

member, and then us look, look

52:53

out as a global community member and figure

52:55

out who can use these services even more.

52:57

Than we do and who can use these

52:59

tools even more than we do. And this

53:02

article to me really helped maintain

53:05

my mind globally, because it's very easy for

53:07

me to just be not just in America,

53:09

but it's just in Brooklyn, you know, where

53:11

the project is for it to get out

53:13

of Brooklyn, to get out of New York,

53:15

to get out of my class distinction and

53:17

hopefully for it to go global. And I

53:19

just appreciate you for bringing this challenge

53:22

to me this week. What I loved about Akaya

53:24

is that it pushed me to

53:26

like just say

53:28

to myself and to everybody that anybody

53:31

can organize, that the conditions for

53:33

organizing are always present when there

53:36

is an imbalance or injustice or

53:38

lack of resources. And

53:40

that's so often the way we talk about

53:42

organizing is like, well, they went to 15,

53:44

they are certified and blah blah. And you're

53:47

like, nope, organizers organize. That's the bar. And

53:50

this is an example of somebody who saw a problem,

53:53

realized that they were not resort

53:55

like people filled in the gaps like they

53:57

organized and they did it and they served.

54:00

of the community and that has been happening in our

54:02

communities time and time again. And one of the things

54:04

that Dominick culture sort of did is,

54:06

is that it convinces people that the only

54:08

way to have a skill is that it's

54:10

like accredited by a thing. And

54:12

you're like, no, these people did it. And

54:14

if they had waited for a quote therapist,

54:16

they'd be really screwed

54:19

in a context where they

54:22

had been denied access structurally, right? Like,

54:24

this is not like they didn't care.

54:27

They, it was, it, three licensed therapists

54:29

is not because people didn't care about

54:31

therapy. That's how mouth's going on, right?

54:34

So that was a push. And

54:36

I like this. Thank you, Kaya. Again, I

54:39

hadn't even seen this article on anything. And

54:43

I think especially Kaya, to your point, as

54:45

we get into the holiday season, which can

54:47

be a hard time

54:50

for folks. Just

54:53

the importance of, you know,

54:56

I think it's important for us also to put on

54:58

ourselves to reach out

55:01

to others. And I read something

55:03

the other day around, you

55:05

know, how hard it is for people that are

55:07

struggling, people that are struggling with

55:09

mental illness or struggling with thoughts of suicide,

55:11

how they, you

55:13

know, are able to put on this kind

55:16

of performance of being okay. Right?

55:19

And so I think it's so important for us to

55:22

just to reach out to one another and folks within

55:24

our communities and just to check in with folks and

55:26

make sure that folks are okay. So

55:29

thank you for bringing this. My

55:33

news is about affirmative action and it

55:35

is in LA Times. The headline is

55:39

post affirmative action, Asian American families are

55:41

more stressed than ever about college admissions.

55:43

Now we try to tell

55:45

everybody that anti-blackness really hurts a lot

55:49

of people, but people that listen to us,

55:51

people that we are being dramatic. And

55:53

what the article does is that the article chronicles

55:57

some Asian American families trying

56:00

to figure out how to game the

56:02

college admissions system and cycle hiring

56:04

consultants for $3,000, $5,000,

56:08

having people write the essays or buy

56:10

them on the res. My duty's kids are 14,

56:12

15, and 16. I

56:15

didn't go to school with any black student

56:17

who had the resources to hire a private

56:19

anything for the college process.

56:21

I mean, shout out to Bowdoin

56:23

and I love Bowdoin. And Bowdoin had

56:25

not come and done a talk at my

56:27

high school as I was skipping class. I

56:29

would not be at Bowdoin because nobody put

56:31

it on my radar. I just happened to

56:33

be in the guidance office and they walked

56:35

in. And I failed

56:38

to say that what is fascinating about this is

56:40

that while there were so

56:44

many, like while it was,

56:46

you know, plaintiffs

56:51

who were Asian-American sort of

56:53

fighting about this idea that

56:55

affirmative action was somehow discriminatory

56:57

against them in the

56:59

lawsuit that ended affirmative action and college

57:01

admissions, they in this article are

57:03

still trying to game that they're like, well, my

57:06

last name will make it really clear that I'm

57:08

an immigrant. As that should

57:10

be a proxy for how they're considered. They

57:13

are writing about a parent

57:15

struggling as an immigrant. They're writing

57:17

about, you know, all these things

57:19

that are central

57:21

to their identity as non-white people

57:24

in this country while they simultaneously

57:26

fought for the affirmative action because

57:28

they thought that it would help

57:30

them. Come on. The

57:33

last thing I'll say is that, you know, it

57:36

is so hard when other races don't

57:39

realize that the quest to be close

57:41

to whiteness will always end with

57:43

you just not being white. That is the game. So

57:46

whiteness will let you get close, will

57:49

hug you, will invite you in for

57:51

dinner, but you are not white. And

57:53

there is no amount of trying that will make

57:55

you white. It just is not, that is a

57:57

losing game. And this is the case. is

58:00

another example of people trying to play the game.

58:02

And you're like, Matthew

58:05

Taylor from Podunk,

58:08

Nebraska will be fine with his full point

58:10

that like, there's a way that this system

58:12

benefits whiteness and was built to do it

58:14

and affirmative action was a response to that.

58:17

So the idea

58:19

that non white people help to

58:21

dismantle it is just so wild,

58:24

but not something that we did not

58:26

anticipate hurting them as well. Told

58:28

y'all. Told

58:31

y'all. What's so interesting to me,

58:33

and again, very sloppy

58:36

thoughts, because I think

58:39

we're talking about like a sloppy

58:41

reality, is there is something to

58:44

being some, there's something

58:46

to white supremacy and anti

58:48

blackness and being a part of

58:50

a race that isn't necessarily doesn't

58:52

have any association with blackness. And

58:55

when you don't examine the privilege

58:58

that that gives you, you really end

59:00

up making, to put

59:02

it lightly silly decisions. Um,

59:06

the to the race

59:08

point, there's nothing

59:10

that you're going to be able to do

59:12

to make you come before these white

59:15

people. And it's

59:18

wild to me that it

59:20

had to be it had to come here. And

59:23

I guess I'm kind of returning

59:25

to a similar question that I had

59:27

before is what recipes and chapters

59:29

are we missing that you don't remember

59:32

or you don't consider what

59:35

America did to the Japanese folks

59:37

and the whole the

59:40

whole reason why certain people

59:42

in what the

59:44

whole reason why Asian people were experiencing

59:46

discrimination like what what is happening that

59:49

that's not being considered anymore when we're

59:51

making these decisions. What what

59:53

what what about today's history or today's

59:56

current event to make you think that

59:58

if you don't have these. legal and

1:00:00

political protections that they will

1:00:02

not subjugate you

1:00:04

to the back of the back

1:00:06

of the line. Like I

1:00:09

don't know how a group

1:00:11

of people got there and I know it's

1:00:13

obviously not all Asian Americans at all. But

1:00:16

I just don't I don't I

1:00:18

don't get the through line. I don't I

1:00:20

don't get the journey, the thought journey that

1:00:22

people got on to think you know what's

1:00:24

the answer? Non-performative

1:00:27

action, that's what's going to help Asian

1:00:30

folks advance and in this article

1:00:33

is also sad, you know,

1:00:35

because although this

1:00:38

might be controversial to say, but I don't think that

1:00:41

Asian Americans or any people any immigrant should

1:00:43

have to weaponize

1:00:45

and intellectualize their histories and their

1:00:48

identities to get into school and

1:00:50

education. I think it should

1:00:52

just be about being a superior student

1:00:54

or being somebody who loves education. I

1:00:56

don't think you should have to turn

1:00:59

your story into a Netflix drama in

1:01:02

order to get access and it

1:01:06

just makes me just makes me sad. Yeah. This

1:01:15

made me just think like, is this

1:01:17

worth it? Like, is it worth it

1:01:20

on so many fronts? As

1:01:22

I read the stories of these poor young

1:01:24

people who many of whom are just brilliant,

1:01:26

right? They're hardworking. They are scoring 1520s on

1:01:28

their SATs and taking 15 AP classes and

1:01:32

still are all stressed

1:01:34

out because they're not going to get into Harvard and yeah, I went

1:01:37

to school with kids like that. And I was like, I don't want

1:01:39

to hang out with those at

1:01:41

all. They were not

1:01:43

healthy. They were not happy. And

1:01:45

so, you know, one question that

1:01:48

I had was, is it worth it for your

1:01:51

kids? And there was one, one parent who, who

1:01:53

said, you know, I just want my kid to

1:01:55

be happy and successful. I don't want to stress

1:01:57

him out. And that is not the general. you

1:02:00

know, perception in this article.

1:02:02

But I just wonder at a time

1:02:04

where we're paying a lot more attention

1:02:07

to kids' mental health and happiness, whether

1:02:09

or not this ultimately backfires on

1:02:11

these families. I also wonder whether

1:02:13

it's worth it to go to a school where

1:02:15

there's just gonna be a whole bunch of rich

1:02:17

Asian kids, not even poor Asian kids, like just

1:02:19

rich Asian kids, the ones who can, the ones

1:02:21

who can, you know, pay for the

1:02:23

admissions counselor and whatever, whatever. How

1:02:26

y'all gonna act in the world when all you've

1:02:28

been around is yourselves and each other, where you

1:02:30

actually have missed the part of college

1:02:32

where you learn from different people and

1:02:34

explore new things, because it ain't no different people at these

1:02:36

schools. So I wonder if that's worth it, especially

1:02:39

when you're paying $80,000 or $90,000 a year. And

1:02:42

then the thing that was fascinating to me

1:02:45

was, you know, I

1:02:47

think there's a big question right now as to

1:02:49

whether college is worth, you know, whether the juice

1:02:51

is worth the squeeze, whether, you know, the kinds

1:02:53

of kids, the kinds of jobs that young people

1:02:56

are getting when they come out of college compared

1:02:58

to the debt that you take on to go into

1:03:00

college is worth it. And I

1:03:02

thought one of the most interesting things

1:03:04

in this article was this sentence here.

1:03:07

Yen pointed out that going to

1:03:09

a top college is no guarantee

1:03:11

for career success with Asian Americans

1:03:13

overrepresented at many campuses, yet underrepresented

1:03:15

in leadership positions in government and

1:03:17

other workplaces. Oh, well, so you'd

1:03:19

think you're doing all of this

1:03:21

stuff to make sure that your

1:03:23

kids get to be successful, and

1:03:25

that's not what the data shows. And so

1:03:27

I feel, when

1:03:30

I feel badly for these kids,

1:03:33

I think, you know, I understand their

1:03:36

parents' motivation and whatnot, but we

1:03:39

have, you know, we have

1:03:43

bastardized the whole college thing. I

1:03:45

feel, I do

1:03:47

feel like you, DeRay, that it is wildly

1:03:50

ironic that people

1:03:52

of color took down affirmative action and not

1:03:54

worried about not getting into school. Maybe

1:03:58

you should have thought. about

1:04:00

that. And yeah,

1:04:02

I actually think that this is going to get much worse.

1:04:04

It's not just about the admissions piece. I

1:04:06

think we're going to see all kinds of

1:04:09

things happening on college campuses that were not

1:04:11

the case before, or maybe that were the

1:04:13

case before way back in the day before

1:04:15

campuses were integrated. And I

1:04:18

think we'll be worse off for it. I

1:04:20

think too kind of just pointing out sentences

1:04:22

in this article that are really

1:04:26

reflect just where this college process

1:04:28

is. So Juan

1:04:30

Jun Kim, director of the college consulting

1:04:32

firm Boston Education, was talking about this

1:04:36

student Esther. Her academics were

1:04:38

stellar. 4.3 GPA, 1520 SAT, and 9 AP

1:04:40

courses. But in her personal

1:04:44

statement, she wrote about her mother's fight with breast

1:04:46

cancer, and she was admitted into the

1:04:49

University of Pennsylvania. That was her trump

1:04:51

card. I don't know. This is

1:04:53

all I just feel

1:04:55

like we cannot get away from

1:04:57

this culture of toxicity and

1:05:00

exploitation and capitalism. And it's

1:05:02

like dystopian. Even it's wild.

1:05:05

And this is like a

1:05:07

child who's learning to use

1:05:09

probably the most devastating experience

1:05:12

as leverage to get into college.

1:05:14

We have bigger problems. Oh,

1:05:18

that's it. Listen to Jana and the positive people

1:05:20

this week. Tell your friends to check it out and

1:05:22

make sure you rate it wherever you get your podcast

1:05:24

or the title podcast or somewhere else. And

1:05:26

we'll see you next week. I think the

1:05:28

people's production of CUNY Media is producing AJ

1:05:31

Miltry.