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podcasting 2.0 February 10 2023 Episode 121 lawful but awful

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Hello, everybody once again it's a Friday time for the board

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meeting the official one the only board meetings of

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podcasting. 2.0 everything happening in podcasting, we are

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the first line of defense against big tech capture. We

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are, we are slaying it. You can find everything at podcasts

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index.org Of course, we got the podcast namespace where all the

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innovation is documented and everything happening in podcast

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index dot social. I'm Adam curry here in the chilly heart of the

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Texas Hill Country and Alabama. He's the big A and API say hello

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to my friend on the other end, ladies and gentlemen, it's Mr.

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Dave Jones. Did you call me the big day

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in API? Okay. Yeah, not isn't. No, it's meant to be. Come on,

0:54

man. I'm just doing this over my head. Yeah, I just, I just throw

0:58

it out there. You know, whatever comes to mind, I got to do

1:01

something every single week. So I'm drinking

1:03

the beef milk. And halfway through the beef milkshakes. I

1:05

mean, big A's. Big is coming. Brother, how are you feeling? By the way? Because

1:13

I know you were still a little bit under the weather. Oh, yeah. This has been a roller coaster I went, I was, you know,

1:18

went down, get get the antibiotics and those in the

1:22

steroid shot. Came back up was like 100 was like 99%. Then got

1:30

them when Rob back down again. Round two. I was so my thought

1:36

was okay. I've didn't clear the first thing, whatever this was,

1:41

and I've and it's come back. But now I'm thinking because my

1:46

thinking that the sequence of events was that I got sick,

1:50

Clear that out. And then just the universe hates me. So I just

1:55

had a different I guess, I think I got two different things back

1:58

to back. Oh, goodness. I mean, this is Tina had this thing that you

2:03

have it was and she was, I'd say it took a good two weeks. And

2:07

she and she still? Well, she basically either cracked or

2:11

bruised her ribs severely. So she still has Yeah, from the

2:15

coughing. And like, I missed her. And she's so healthy

2:20

compared to me and works out, you know, twice a day and does

2:23

all this stuff. And I just kind of like your podcast, I have

2:26

some beef. That's veils regimen, and a Dr. Pepper. And I didn't

2:33

get anything. And I know lots of people like this just it's been

2:37

bad. Melissa has a forcefield I mean, she never gets sick. And, and I

2:44

mean, like somebody, you know, float by me and I get in looks

2:47

at me wrong and I get sick. It's so annoying socks profit. So you've been working from home? No, you've

2:53

been going into the office? Yes, I did. During the pandemic. We never I didn't miss a day

3:00

except for those 11 days. I was locked in the room in my room

3:03

with COVID which was bad. I remember that you were on the ropes. Yeah, we did. When we

3:09

still did I still did this show. I remember. That's right,

3:13

brother. That's your vow of poverty for the for the further

3:16

ment of podcasting. Yes, crawler across the floor of treasuries to Mike.

3:22

Remember this? Oh goodness. So those of you that have it and

3:28

know about it, we're lit. That means that we are live on the

3:31

air. It's it's a fantastic new format for podcasting that I'm

3:38

very familiar with because I've been doing it for maybe 1314

3:41

years, but 15 years have no agenda but it never came

3:44

together the way it is in these apps now with chat room with

3:49

with live stream and of course the extra bonus of the live

3:52

booster Graham's this thing is catching fire and I saw the new

3:58

media show Todd and Rob they went live with video, which was

4:02

made possible in the new version of pod verse with I think a lot

4:07

of background assist from Alex gates, since it was this new

4:13

chipped up, choppy LS thingamabob video format HLS

4:18

Yes, what I mean HLS which sounds HLS sounds like something

4:23

bad that you can get can catch, but like RSV, I got a case of

4:28

HLS now stay away from me, bro.

4:33

Yeah, that's that I didn't realize that Alex was in on

4:36

that. I was kind of like tangential to what was going on?

4:39

I think they jump in and whip them into shape. Well, I think

4:42

because he's peer tube work has been with with HLS and no agenda

4:50

tube, which is you know, the the peer tube instance that he runs,

4:54

has this, this HLS capability. So I mean, what can you do? Tell

5:00

us, besides the fact that pod verses now come into its own,

5:04

into into a mature state of application, I would say, how

5:09

does how does this what is this HLS stuff? And why is it

5:12

important? And do I need a special special server for it?

5:15

How does this work? I think if I'm not mistaken, I'm not mistaken. Apple had a strong

5:23

hand in in HLS. I think, if I'm not mistaken, so think I'm

5:31

totally not the expert with with the video streaming formats, but

5:35

I think if I understand it correctly, sort of HLS is like

5:40

it's an acronym like or something. Yes, right. Yes. HTTP

5:44

Live Streaming is that oh, okay. That helps HTTP Live Stream.

5:47

Yeah, you like segment you segment the, the stream into

5:52

chunks, I guess chunks are something in the new rather than

5:56

like trying to stream on an unbroken

6:01

rights as opposed to mp3 streaming, Riah, that kind of thing. So

6:05

this is why it works on on curio caster as well, because that's

6:09

basically a web browser and he's wet. The web browsers already

6:11

understand this is HLS format.

6:14

Well, I think they're using a library. I don't know, I don't

6:17

know if the browsers don't understand it natively. But I

6:19

think they're, I think they're using a sort of a common library

6:23

to do this that understands it. Will. It may Safari, I think may

6:26

do it HLS natively. I don't know about Chrome based browsers.

6:32

Okay. There's a lot yeah, there's a lot I don't know about

6:34

it. But I do know it's way more efficient. You It tolerates it

6:40

tolerates poor connections well, and it's just it's the right way

6:44

to go. But it's the modern approach. It's not just video it does mp3 and AC three and all other AAC. So

6:52

is this something we should be using in general also for for

6:56

audio lit streaming? I think I think the difference here is, again, with the caveats

7:04

of non knowledge of video, I think the difference here is

7:07

that something like mp3 streaming is so small already,

7:12

like audio only streaming is very, is as already just

7:16

efficient by by nature. Whereas something like video streaming

7:21

is so heavy, right? You have you really like you can survive with

7:24

some made with audio streams that are a little bit fatter

7:28

than you can with an with a video stream. That's fat, you

7:31

really have to pare that down and make it nice for you know,

7:37

latency and things like that. But Nathan G says HLS lets you

7:42

skip back to the to catch the start of the Live episode and

7:44

even increase the playback speed to catch. Oh, okay, that's cool.

7:48

Yeah, is it? Is it packet based? I'm not real sure. I don't know

7:53

how deep in the, in the, in the OSI stack it goes. I don't know

7:57

if it goes all the way down to the you know, like so now

8:01

when the lower levels now I need to do is also baking web

8:04

torrent. And then we don't even need streaming servers. We don't

8:07

even need infrastructure just works. Yeah, it'll it'll only take. It'll be here in two years.

8:12

Yeah. Now that's like, 10 years for anything. Climate change

8:18

related? Yep. We'll have how green hydrogen and 10 years.

8:21

Okay, great. Always 10 years? Course five years. And always?

8:25

Well, I remember we might have talked about this in a recent

8:27

episode, was it BitTorrent live or something? And with a bit bit

8:32

torrent before, they, I don't know, somehow they they became a

8:36

company and took money, and then it all sucked. But they were

8:40

going to do something? Maybe that's what web torrent is, I

8:43

don't know. But I've always been very enamored of the idea that

8:47

you didn't need a central server for streaming stuff for a number

8:50

of reasons. But I always thought that would be cool. If that

8:52

actually worked, then I think web torrent does it to some

8:55

degree. It does, except the you know, the, the problem was you always

9:00

just, it's hard to get everybody to, to seed and to participate.

9:05

Right? It's like it's like you have this I wouldn't I don't

9:08

know if I call it a chicken and egg problem but you you have to

9:11

have enough is the same it's the same as the DHT DHT bootstrap

9:17

problem that you have with DHT based networks once you get to a

9:22

critical mass something like IPFS you print it you can you

9:26

can ride you're good to go. But then there's that initial thing

9:32

of trying to get enough peers online and and bootstrapped

9:37

Yeah. To so that you have other people participating. Like and

9:41

it seems like every time you would boot up a live stream you

9:44

would have to go through that entire process again. You know,

9:47

it's like it will it's the way it is with bits with Bit Torrent

9:50

to every time you you find something and you start to

9:54

download it. It's like okay, went offline.

9:56

He went, one guy, one guy, stay online man, don't

10:00

Oh, he went offline. Yeah, yeah, remember that I'm, in a way it's

10:07

like nostre, which I've been, I've been, I'm still

10:10

experimenting with. And it's, you're so right, that Alex is

10:16

right to about the relays. It's all about the relays 100% of any

10:24

issue is relay related. And I can just I think probably 90% of

10:32

people who try out noster say, Oh, it's a Twitter that's

10:36

decentralized which of course isn't it? I mean, the protocol

10:38

is built for anything was it notes over things and relays or

10:42

whatever it stands for some light? Yes, yeah. But the minute

10:45

you boot up and a relay is not isn't there or is overloaded and

10:51

you know, stuff doesn't load and I mean, the user experiences is

10:55

very hit or miss and please don't email me tell me that I'm

10:59

doing it wrong. You're holding it wrong. You're holding it

11:02

wrong. And then so I was really jacked when when Umbro I think

11:06

was a Dorsey said oh, you know he posted a screen picture

11:09

because you know why? Why post on you? He doesn't post words.

11:12

The like nobody does anymore. They can emoji PV which I guess is noster for a beautiful life or

11:20

you know, have a great day or whatever it is like oh, you can

11:28

now load or rely on your Umbro. I'm like, oh, okay, now now

11:32

you're Now you're talking. So I install it? Yeah. All right. So

11:37

it's like several other apps that are all exciting on Umbro.

11:41

But unless you have a public IP with with with a cert with it,

11:48

so you can do HTTPS or in this case w s s

11:52

is not going to work for you. What is W SS?

11:55

This is the w s i don't know if some this is like

11:58

a I rarely hear acronym that I've never heard before. I had

12:01

no idea what this is. Well, I learned about it because w s s is is the here w s on HTML now

12:10

see, here it is. Stack Overflow. Web web web sockets WebSocket

12:17

protocol. Oh, okay. Now I'm just Yes, you didn't know this.

12:23

Now. Gotcha. Okay, so so all the apps expect a W s s connection. But of course, your

12:30

Umbral is not going to be w s s out of the box is W S. So even

12:35

though I use to scale, which is pretty secure, I think I would

12:41

now have to go through the effort of setting up a cert for

12:46

the for the encrypted session. And otherwise, the apps won't

12:51

talk to my relay, and the relay only will archive what I'm doing

12:55

anyway. It's not a relay that you can use publicly, as far as

12:59

I understand. So there's no, there's no like, tours a no go. Is which I don't

13:08

run over tour. Yeah, but I mean, like if somebody had wanted to

13:12

do their nostril failover tour, that's, that's not going

13:14

well, you still have to have a secure. Yeah, it's looking for a

13:19

secure sockets layer. Because I mean, 90% of the people that have umbrellas like

13:23

at home, they're not they don't have public IPs mapped to that.

13:25

No, it did. It's all Tor. I mean, I haven't used what Tor for me blows. I mean, it's just

13:32

oh, it's slow. It sucks. You know, half the stuff you want to

13:35

do you have to switch to a Tor browser. So tail scale is is you

13:39

know, Godsend but your public put your public connections like to your

13:45

channels and stuff. That's that's Tor. Is that that Tor

13:48

course yeah, yeah. Which is because if you're coming back

13:51

through if you're coming back through your firewall, your home

13:53

network, you know, then you're gonna have to if it doesn't do

13:56

tour, then you kind of out of the water. Yeah, you're

14:00

and even so there's so I have to reopen a channel to my to my my

14:07

Umbral node with podcasts index at least once every two three

14:12

weeks. Because whatever. I've noticed this

14:15

with your own with your own note as well. No, no, I noticed it with your node because I had to dump all

14:20

the transactions out for the tax.

14:23

Curry's opening and closing 2 million sets every day every

14:26

time it was 2 million it was like when the world is going on and

14:30

it was like force close force close force close force close

14:33

from podcast index and that's a pretty yeah pretty good node you

14:36

know I'm I don't know how to configure it differently so I'm

14:40

so sad blows Yeah, and it's it's really the I think it's the

14:43

laptop that I'm running that arborlon That's why I ordered a

14:46

Bitcoin machines another one of those because I have no problem

14:49

with that machine, even though it's also running over Tor same

14:52

network. So it's got to be something with the with the

14:56

machine. It's all it's amazing. Any of it works at all. If it's

15:00

amazing any of this works, but congratulations to Mitch on on a

15:06

great new version of pod verse. Love it. I love that. Thanks,

15:10

Todd, for running with a huge pair of shears loppers has no,

15:19

he does not afraid of anything. Oh yeah, we'll just do the

15:21

switching protocols on the fly or whatever it was, it didn't

15:26

work and then T switch to I guess he was streaming an audio

15:30

slash, whatever. MBA versus video so and he just switched it

15:36

on the fly and it all worked. It was amazing, was really amazing.

15:40

And he's whatever whatever they've got go in there with his

15:43

setup. He's able to he's able to get it. Me in a pot, the pot

15:47

things go out for the video and the audio stream BOTH Yeah, I

15:50

mean, he's there. You can see the sort of like the narrowing

15:53

down of these of these troubles each week as they go in this.

15:56

Like they're settling on an actual, stable platform that

16:00

works. Very cool. And Mitch is Hi, Mitch is homepod Verse I'm

16:05

in and I am to me like he was he's pretty excited about. He's

16:09

pretty excited about this version. And in mean, any should

16:13

be. Feels good. Yeah, it feels like it's really becoming. It

16:18

feels like it's taken a step into like, the upper level of

16:22

podcast apps. Now the stabilities there, the polishes,

16:26

they're just getting shot versus a great app. Yeah.

16:29

And did you tell me that podcast guru was going to implement

16:34

value for valued payments? Maybe I hope so. In the future.

16:40

I thought I heard that somewhere. I don't know. I'm

16:42

trying to keep up. No one tells me anything anymore.

16:45

There. Yeah. I don't know why. Yeah, hope so.

16:51

I, we did get a great gift from Marcus couch. If you don't think

16:55

you know, Marcus couch, but he I know him. Oh, goodness, back to

16:59

the pod show days. And so Marcus Heyman, his lovely wife always

17:06

stayed in touch. And he's a big fan of podcasting. 2.0. And he

17:10

was always, always promoting and boosting. And he said that he

17:14

won in an auction podcast apps.com. Whoa, anyway, and he

17:21

said, Hey, you wanna You want me to transfer that to you? So now

17:24

you hold on to that boot case, he's just going to point it to

17:26

to our Apps page. So instead of new Cast apps, we'll also have

17:30

podcast apps.com. Well, that's a strong win.

17:35

Yeah, I think he gets it in 11 days or something. I don't know

17:38

what he paid for it. I hope he didn't go crazy on that. Oh,

17:41

yeah. Hope it Yeah. Strong winds.

17:43

Strong wind is the right word. I like cast app stock. Yeah,

17:47

that's pretty good. Great domain. Great to me. I tried to

17:51

register lawful but awful today was a phrase that you all did

17:57

you not read the latest? How top political podcasts are spread

18:01

unsubstantiated and false claims?

18:04

Oh, I remember lawful but awful. That's. That's Vicki, Vicki,

18:08

Vicki. So she came out with another article, our our pal

18:12

Vicki over there at Brookings. We have printed it last night. And I'm about what I'm gonna

18:18

send Brookings, a bill for the amount of toner that I had to

18:21

use to print this 25,000 word monstrosity of an article with a

18:26

lot of graphs, a lot of graphs less of an article and more like

18:29

a pamphlet, or a or a or an imprint is very, very long. And

18:36

I have not even I have not read it yet. Well, the funny thing is, you know, the article is audible

18:42

reckoning, which I'm not quite sure. I'm not quite sure why she

18:44

chose that as a title. Valerie vert Shafter how top political

18:49

podcasters which I'm not in that list, by the way, spread

18:54

unsubstantiated and false claims. And our whole article as

18:58

it comes to the evolution of the podcasting medium is filled with

19:03

unsubstantial and false claims, such as Ben Hammersley, of

19:09

course invented podcasting. And he is a podcast pioneer.

19:16

This so I don't have on hand the article that we the last time

19:23

this came up, you know, and we actually got we just we discussed it on the show

19:29

for sure. Yeah. It's been a couple of months ago. But this

19:33

was the one where, like, on the first page, she referenced a New

19:39

York Times article, and she said, and she summarized and she

19:44

she gave a link to the article and summarized what the articles

19:47

conclusions were. So of course, I clicked the link and went and

19:50

read the article. The articles conclusions were the 180%

19:54

opposite of the thing that she said they were it was like, she

19:57

said, The New York Times discovered this sentence so that

20:00

when actually they said literally in the article, it was

20:03

the exact opposite of the thing. And I was like, okay. Okay, like

20:09

she had she said some things that were very interesting,

20:11

although not the way I remember it, but it doesn't matter,

20:14

because what happened, according to Ben Hammersley and Ben

20:17

Hammersley, who basically invented the whole, a whole

20:19

category. He just because he said, audio blogging,

20:23

podcasting, Guerilla Media. This is before anything was really

20:27

before Dave and I put it all together with the iPod. But at

20:32

the time, this term was describing serial audio content

20:35

that could be played on demand through any mp3 device such as

20:38

the then increasingly popular iPod, listeners could take their

20:42

audio with them, pause it as needed, or the pause start

20:45

button and start again at their convenience. Early adopters of

20:48

the medium shared episodes through really simple

20:51

syndication feeds, which users could consume, by subscribing

20:54

directly or indirectly. The RSS architecture here comes

20:58

facilitated the growth of a decentralized medium detached

21:02

from regulatory oversight. Which I like that's the that's the

21:07

only part of the article I think, is really good. Because

21:10

then she goes on with it was a medium where quote, anyone can

21:13

be a publisher, anyone can be a broadcaster, according to one of

21:16

podcasting pioneers, footnote 14, and that's literally been

21:21

hammered. Hammersley. So he, I guess, did it all? And then

21:29

yeah, where was it? There was something funny in here, like

21:31

once written off as a dead medium. See, where was that it

21:35

was? Now, it doesn't really matter. But what, what what I

21:38

think is unfortunate, because the again, the whole point of

21:41

this article is podcasting has no moderation. There's unlike

21:47

social media, there's no way for the crowd to push back. Where I

21:51

would say immediately Well, if you actually did some research,

21:54

you see that currently booster grams are a way to push forward

21:58

or push back and there is sufficient work on cross app

22:02

comments. So since there, since it's all just people talking to

22:07

themselves, with no feedback loop, complete bull crap,

22:11

because we do have things such as email and, and, and people do

22:16

have places to comment or even services to comment. You know,

22:21

we don't have any. We don't have any, any moderation. It's always

22:25

about moderation with her. And how do we get the overlords to

22:28

moderate and make sure that people don't get miss or

22:32

disinformation out there? And again, if she did any work, and

22:37

maybe did even a Google search, you might find that what she

22:42

says, Well, there's no incentive for the companies that make

22:45

podcast apps to do any of this. That companies. Yeah, I mean,

22:50

the beauty is, if she, she seems that you know, Brookings seems

22:55

to have a lot of money. So I say Brookings, why don't you come

22:58

in, read the API docs and create your own app, you can use our

23:03

index, then you can put all kinds of reporting bits and an

23:09

alarm bells that you can push that go somewhere until somebody

23:13

can do all kinds of stuff like this dashboard. We have a

23:17

dashboard. Yes, you can have a complete dashboard. You could

23:19

have a an app that centers all the stuff that is bad, you could

23:23

actually you as Brookings Institute could do this. You

23:27

could filter out all the stuff that is awful, lawful, but

23:30

awful. That should be the name of the app. LBA Yes,

23:34

I tried. I'm sure someone somebody's already registered it

23:37

but that's literally what this what the content is called.

23:41

lawful but awful. Yeah, this is always this always strikes me similarly to the way

23:47

that the Bitcoin narrative of you know, it's just used by bad

23:53

guys. The bad guys use it for all kinds of terrible things. So

24:00

clearly, it's bad. Well, you know, like, have you checked out

24:03

the US dollar lately past use for leg it used for a lot of bad

24:06

things for the history of all of, you know, for all of the

24:10

entire history of its of its use in there. It's like, well, yeah,

24:15

podcasts. Sure there's misinformation and

24:17

disinformation and all kinds of information on podcasts. We know

24:21

step outside every now and then you're gonna see that there's a

24:23

diff in DM on every corner of the street in every newspaper.

24:28

It's all over the place. MDM is Yeah, Mal DIS and missing from

24:32

it. Of course. I found that when I found the article, the US

24:36

podcast, this is from October 3. Last year, yeah, right. 22.

24:41

Yeah. us in the title of the article is us podcasters spread

24:45

Kremlin narratives on Nord Stream sabotage.

24:48

It turns out to all be true. Yes, yes. So

24:52

here it says the US did it. They just give me the quote US did it

24:56

conspiracy on popular American podcast and there A chart

25:01

that is now confirmed on a few saw now confirmed by Pulitzer

25:05

Prize winning Seymour Hersh, Seymour Hersh, who? Who has

25:10

stopped like the Vietnam War he was. He is credited with being

25:15

the impetus for stopping the Vietnam War because of his

25:18

reporting on the atrocities committed there. But okay. Turns

25:25

out to be true. So I can't see anything here where she retracts

25:29

that, of course, nobody's listening to the retraction in

25:31

this in this new article, the role of podcasting apps and tech

25:36

companies. Okay, that we talked to some of those people since

25:40

the early years. What does to you if you since the early years

25:44

of podcasting apps have taken a hands off approach to moderating

25:47

moderating content? And for button No, no Apple deep

25:52

platform, Spotify, the platform so no, since the early years of

25:55

pod, I think overcast, take stuff off. Since the early years

26:00

of podcasting apps have taken a hands off approach to moderating

26:03

content have provided a sparse architecture to facilitate

26:06

distribution, as the medium continues to evolve and expand

26:11

for 18 years, the tech companies that develop the tech companies

26:15

Hey, Mitch, this is you. The tech companies that can go a

26:19

Franco Franco Oscar your tech companies that develop

26:22

podcasting apps, you can help shape the information ecosystem

26:26

in important ways by crafting more robust content moderation

26:30

guidelines and practices, promoting greater transparency

26:34

and improving the in app experience for users. Which

26:38

starts with content moderation.

26:41

I've noticed started with sleep timers. The number one requested feature is not content moderation. Oh,

26:48

Vicki. Oh, is it asleep timer? Dark Mode, okay. As the medium

26:57

grows in popularity, oh, this is interesting. And based on the

27:00

European Union's recently enacted Digital Services Act,

27:04

which the DSA which sets forth the contours of digital content

27:08

moderation across the EU, podcasting apps may soon be

27:12

forced to reckon with how they handle content that falls into

27:16

the so called here it is lawful but awful domain, such as hate

27:20

speech, misinformation, and targeted harassment. Well, I

27:25

harass people on the podcast all the time. You do and I'm very

27:29

proud of that. These policies will have to balance a desire to

27:33

limit the real world harm harm that can stem from the mass

27:37

dissemination of objectionable content with a vital necessity

27:40

not to curtail speech too aggressively, or inconsistency

27:44

or its balance. Okay, to address these challenges, tech companies

27:48

should colon colon, colon provide more detailed

27:53

transparent guidelines for the content that podcasters can

27:56

share on their apps. Why think waiter and the waiter there these options? Do I get to pick

28:00

between these options? No, no? No. It's a sure Okay, sure.

28:04

You should? Because I would like to choose between these.

28:07

Yeah, no, no, it's a should do. We want to share this with the

28:10

app developers so they know what they should be doing. Develop

28:14

detailed, transparent guidelines for the content that apps will

28:17

promote or recommend. Hmm. She also has some she's misinformed.

28:22

She believes that these apps have algorithms that recommend

28:25

stuff. Here, in addition to the guidelines detailing what

28:30

content tech companies will host some platforms have developed

28:32

separate guidelines for detailing the types of content

28:35

their recommendation algorithms will promote

28:38

the algorithm get in most podcast apps, it goes like this

28:44

GREP the request logs and find out which which at which podcast

28:49

is being recommended, like requested the most? Or how many

28:53

subscribers are in that are the most for each podcast and then

28:57

recommend the ones that are at the top? That is the algo that's

29:01

the extent of the algorithm. There's there's no there's no

29:03

complicated, incorrect, incorrect, incorrect. Vicki Brookings Institute

29:08

institution says apart from Word and route of mouth

29:11

recommendations, which will also soon stop adding that but you

29:16

know that will editorialize editorial. Users often discover

29:21

new podcasts through in app recommendation systems like

29:25

featured most popular lists, or personalized recommendations.

29:30

podcast app, like Spotify and Apple podcast should should

29:33

develop similarly detailed policies on the types of content

29:36

they may choose not to amplify to their users via

29:39

recommendation systems. Even if the app still decide to host it,

29:43

which it emits. You need to you just need to stop Yeah, just

29:47

bothering about HLS and stuff that makes your app work and

29:50

just really focus on this page double down on the paperwork of

29:55

regulations and policies for at least six months. But

29:58

wait, there's more. Improve reporting processes for

30:02

individual podcast episodes. Ah, bad episode, podcast apps have

30:08

not yet developed sophisticated real time systems to identify

30:12

harmful content at scale. And can you can you only guess what

30:17

their what they're what her solution is for this broken

30:21

shit? Broken feature?

30:24

Reg ID laws, regulations.

30:28

No, but we are literally doing what she is asking for

30:32

transcripts and machine learning to so your app needs to scan

30:38

through all the transcripts to find stuff that's wrong.

30:42

Yeah, so so the way this works is you you transcribe everything

30:46

in then somebody at when a when a particular strain of MDM is

30:54

identified a strain I like that, yes, as an Android, a new MDM

30:59

variant, when a new variant of MDM is identified. Such as the,

31:04

the, the US, the US blew up the pipeline, various variants of

31:11

MDM of MDM, once that is identified, somebody plugs it

31:14

into the system. They stick it in there, it goes out to all the

31:20

to all the apps and cleanses them of claims. All of the

31:25

episodes, that it's a vaccine, this is an Indian vaccine is

31:29

cleanses them of all the episodes that have this phrase

31:33

or this terminology that have been identified by GPT or

31:37

something within. I want to I want to I want to turn, I want to turn

31:41

it in six months later, when Seymour Hersh writes an article

31:45

that says that it was actually true that all then they hit undo the Undo Ctrl Z Ctrl Z, Z. All

31:51

right, so but I want to turn this around. And I want to offer

31:54

to the Brookings Institute or institution.

31:58

Yes, thanks. I want to offer our services, anything we can do to help

32:06

because everything you'd say, No, this is the last I'll read

32:09

of this. Because then it goes into role of government design,

32:13

an app architecture that allows for richer community engagement

32:17

and more dynamic information environment. Vicki, Google,

32:22

okay, podcasting 2.0 The namespace you have not done the

32:26

work people who who support Brookings with your donations,

32:30

stop them and take them back until she does the work because

32:34

she literally is discussing what we're doing. pause on this

32:38

podcast apps could experiment, which we call running with

32:43

scissors, with a variety of inept features for these

32:46

purposes, including voting and commenting systems with

32:50

additional features at the episode level. Hello, Vicki.

32:54

With the development of open source transcription models like

32:57

open AIS whisper, adding transcripts to episodes has

33:01

never been easier. Oh, everyone's so creative. Building

33:06

on ad hoc, decentralized contribution from fans, users

33:11

and hosts could be a way to add Show Notes and references to

33:14

podcast episodes like I don't know, chapters, anybody.

33:18

Moreover, podcasting apps could experiment with up voting and

33:23

down voting features for these contributions, drawing

33:26

inspiration from community driven websites such as Reddit,

33:30

and Stack Overflow, or Twitter's a community. All of all of this

33:37

has been invented, much of it has been implemented, and you're

33:41

still in the Stone Age Vicki, and we will be happy we welcome

33:47

you. I think it's a great idea. As long as you promote the

33:51

namespace and apps that do 2.0 I want lots I want people to build

33:56

safe apps. I would love that.

34:01

That'd be great. You can use an app that for for adults, like

34:06

pod verse cast, thematic curio caster podcast guru fountain or

34:14

you could have your childish pussy app we want you to build

34:17

that I really I'm serious. I will help I will consult for

34:22

free I will tell you how to do it we have all this so stop

34:26

wasting your donors money Vicki

34:29

you can have real scissors are you can have safety scissors of

34:31

course with the rounded with the rounded tip. Yeah,

34:34

they just fallen they we fall on a stick in your jugular?

34:37

No. Now here's one more thing. I do think that she she thinks

34:41

this is very important podcast or funding. Despite the

34:44

importance of advertisement and sponsorship revenue to the

34:47

podcasting ecosystem, there are no obvious requirements for

34:50

financial disclosures beyond those agreed upon between a

34:54

given series and its sponsors.

34:58

Although which losers Could you play? Sibley

35:01

well, and but we've already been done in our world, we literally

35:05

read out the money that people send us, we could not be more

35:08

transparent. If the I mean, like, no business has to tell anybody who gives

35:15

them money unless it's like a terrorist. You're not required

35:20

to like to like report when somebody gives you, hey,

35:23

somebody just paid me. Okay. Like?

35:26

Well, I think I think the point she's making is that the radio

35:32

industry and social media influencers have to disclose if

35:35

they're being paid off their I don't know, an advisor to

35:38

something. I think that I think that's what what she's saying.

35:42

And that, that these financial relationships are not clear. It

35:46

would just be another lever or another wedge, which is why I

35:48

think we like the lightning Bitcoin network, except to fight

35:52

exactly what she wants to useless for. But again, all of

35:56

it is completely available. I think it'd be podcasting. 2.0

35:59

There's plenty of room for these kinds of crippled apps, also

36:04

known as crap. On the fly on the fly, fly on the fly, I should

36:12

have said we should make plural craps. I should have man craps,

36:16

double. I've got it. Yeah, I've got a cheat sheet. By the way, it is my 100%

36:20

Cheat Sheet. It is basically a printout of the thesaurus for

36:25

everything I can reuse to every term I can use to replace 100%.

36:30

So yes, yes, please. I agree with you, Adam entirely entirely.

36:42

I would have more respect for I just would have more respect for

36:46

the, for the, for the arguments being made here. If she would

36:52

stop spreading misinformation while she's doing it. I mean,

36:55

this is the same problem that I had with Leo's comments on pod

36:59

on pod news weekly review is, it's like, okay, you know,

37:06

you're, you just said that the that Alex Jones was the whole

37:11

point of the podcast index, which is completely not true,

37:14

and go on to save like three or four things that are complete

37:16

lies that are absolutely, demonstrably. Everybody knows

37:21

they're not true. So it's like, boy, if you want to have any

37:25

credibility, when you criticize other people from met for

37:28

misinformation, stop spreading it during your criticism, that

37:33

just has to be sort of like the well that's kind of table

37:36

stakes. But that's kind of the point is that misinformation,

37:41

disinformation, Mal information. It is it's all subjective. And

37:46

everyone gets stuff, right. And she's literally making the case

37:50

that regulated businesses that have lots of, of these aspects

37:56

like television. They're just that is just as bad. Except I

38:02

guess you can get fired easier or something like that. The

38:05

point is, it's such a waste of their money, whereas they if

38:09

they believe that is the world they want to live in. My point

38:13

is we have the toolkit we even have, what's the what's the

38:16

framework that the breeze started off with? The podcast

38:21

work? Yeah, the open source framework.

38:24

Oh, you? Air, air, air

38:27

something air play airsoft air?

38:30

Air soft. Now, you're talking about Ben, Ben hills. Yeah,

38:35

I mean, we haven't you have it? Well shoot, even you could take

38:38

pod friend open source version, you can spin up an app quite

38:43

quickly, and implement all these features, instead of wasting

38:47

Dave's paper and toner with your 25,000 words of marginally

38:54

entertaining content, which is just regurgitated from the last

38:58

time. Anytime, anytime podcast player. And that's what you're thinking.

39:03

Anytime you had written in flutter. Yeah, and I would love it because it would promote the namespace, it

39:08

would promote so much, it will be a very, very good idea.

39:14

This to get to dig and none dig into this a little bit, but kind

39:18

of pull this thread a bit. So I think there's we have to

39:24

understand. I believe that that there's trade offs with a lot of

39:30

this technology and maybe I'm, I'm still deep in the weeds on

39:35

technological society, the Juggalo book, mind is just

39:40

aiming in this direction sort of all the time. But for Ferny for

39:44

example, Mastodon we know is there any doubt I was talking to

39:51

Alex this week about this? Is there any doubt in anybody's

39:54

mind that what is going to happen with mastodon? We can all

39:58

agree it's better than better than Twitter. I I think we can

40:00

all agree Oh, yes, it isn't, as Sure. But just because it's

40:04

better does not mean that it is not that he doesn't have his own

40:09

problems and B could potentially be even worse in the right

40:14

circle under the right circumstances. And what I mean

40:17

by that is, so actually, it's actually much easier to do

40:23

something nefarious with Mastodon sure, like, get like

40:27

create a reputation system. Like some sort of open reputation

40:32

system that tags each individual Mastodon user account with a

40:38

with a social score. Yeah, sure. And then all these new instances

40:43

begin to begin to sign on to this reputation system. So they

40:47

will instantly block replies from people who don't, who don't

40:51

satisfy the reputation score. I mean, like, that's even easier

40:55

to do. That's way easier to do on Mastodon than it is on

40:58

Twitter, you really couldn't do that on as an outside user on

41:01

Twitter, that this just because we go decentralized, and we

41:07

just doesn't doesn't mean all that horrible stuff can happen.

41:10

Right? Right. And it could happen. It can happen in podcasting, too.

41:14

Like if, if the right people get involved and start doing what

41:18

you know, the things that she's describing, and start

41:20

transcribing everything. And then using using AI to tag

41:26

certain things that interested parties think are

41:30

misinformation, with no regard for down the line, whether they

41:34

turn out to be true. That the things decentralization doesn't

41:39

always protect you from the bad stuff because

41:42

No, but open open source is, of course, always the answer. Which

41:47

is, is simultaneously the problem because there's no easy

41:52

money in open source, Enter value for value. You know, but

41:58

that's, I don't want to get off in that and that course of the

42:00

conversation, but there is not going to be one network where

42:05

everybody communicates that will not be one. Even the idea of a

42:09

global Town Square. Do you hear what you're saying? No, you have

42:13

town squares. We have a small we have communities. No agenda is a

42:17

perfect example. 10,000 people on the mastodon instance

42:20

instance 2000 blocks from other instances, fine, but that's

42:25

fine. It's okay. That's okay. That's how it should be. Which

42:30

is again why I really hope I really I would love for twit who

42:36

understand this very well. They've blocked no agenda twit

42:39

dot social, they've blocked no agenda. That's fine. You know,

42:43

grab these 2.0 features and build an app that is for your

42:48

own little protected environment that is that you feel

42:50

comfortable with that's that's the whole point. You can let in

42:55

what you what your community your local community wants to

42:58

let it's it's a federation it's like the federated you know, the

43:01

United States is a is a republic of Federation, Texas will say no

43:06

to some things. And you know, it can be convinced otherwise. And

43:10

we often have to convince things from the inside out like this

43:13

things that Texans don't agree with. And we have our own little

43:17

our issues and battles, which can even be on the on the city

43:20

level. That's a beautiful way this is the AI they're trying to

43:24

shoehorn technology into the new world order global everything.

43:29

That's the problem that thinking is just incorrect. It is

43:33

unnatural. It is not how humans work. That's not how the world

43:36

has ever worked. And thanks to the internet, they have a lot of

43:41

ways to, to do they, I'll say have a lot of ways to do what

43:45

they want, but you also just don't you just don't and I think

43:50

that's fine. I don't know. Do you want to is that making any

43:52

sense? Yeah, I think so. It'd be a bitching and moaning and build

43:57

something that's a good point. That's a good point is the the well but

44:05

you know that that really speaks to what the goal is the goal may

44:08

not be the building the goal may be the bitching and moaning

44:11

thank you and rang and because good point because the the

44:14

bitching and moaning a lot of times is a is a

44:19

those who can't build bitch that's what it is.

44:22

The What was the reason data or whatever the reason for

44:27

existence raison d'etre? Yeah that that's a lot of times they

44:32

the griping or the pointing out of problems is the whole point

44:36

and there is nothing that new that gets built or created that

44:40

in I think all the pieces are in place to do everything to do

44:44

everything that she has various that is proposed right

44:49

but are these terrible but I don't even think it's nefarious.

44:51

I think it'd be fantastic if people would make all to make

44:55

your your payment stuff. Value for value is literally that if

44:59

done in The false scope of value for value dot info where part of

45:03

the feedback loop is recognizing and is showing what the value

45:07

was that you sent back. There's your transparency transcript

45:11

100. You can I get to offer you a fully about fully

45:20

na just fully correct. utterly, utterly correct on the mark but

45:31

yes, please more transcripts many, many more transcripts and

45:35

even fit with chat GPT throw all Hey, if you go to mp3 dot no

45:41

agenda notes.com. It's an open directory of every single mp3 I

45:47

have created since that systems exists, which is quite a few,

45:50

but also all the s dot SRT files, throw it in your AI,

45:55

throw it in there, find stuff, block it, whatever. The fact is,

45:59

you can throw it in, you can also say I want to find

46:01

something and someone else could build something I want to find

46:03

something specifically. Um, this is what I'm for. So I don't care

46:09

that that she wants to that she wants to use all these things we

46:13

have developed for what I think are awful things. But I wish you

46:18

would get someone to do it already. Brookings must have

46:21

$100 million build something it helps everybody

46:26

gotta be more than that. They got bet you they get it they get

46:29

tons of money. That I think there's a there's a naivety

46:35

another French word, named Benjamin will be so proud of you

46:40

read on Datron every day what else?

46:43

I'm reading the Shaka Zulu. Now I know I'm reading Jacques Cousteau.

46:50

So I think there's a sort of naivete of amongst I don't know

46:55

how old you know, Victoria is but she's, she seems young. You

47:00

seem very young from the picture. Yeah. Yeah. And so I'm

47:02

thinking that there is just a naivety of whatever. There's

47:08

naivety of trust in the establishment. And, and I'm

47:12

going to say that, you know, people who are old enough to

47:15

remember, you don't even have I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I just looked at Brookings Institution,

47:21

their form 990 $195 million. In the last year they brought in,

47:28

they have $568 million in assets. Build something.

47:34

Give them a boost. Booster grant, like,

47:39

come on big. Boost us. Exactly.

47:43

But I'm thinking that you don't I mean, you don't have to be old

47:46

enough to go back to like Gulf of Tonkin level this new

47:50

government field misinformation. Another good one, you can just

47:53

go back, you can just go back to something as recent as Syrian

47:58

gas attacks or Yeah, the white The White Helmets anything? Yeah. Or or

48:03

Biden laptop? Russian disinformation?

48:08

Or if you want to go back to something just that's that's

48:11

super uncontroversial about the lack of WMDs in Iraq? I mean,

48:16

yeah, yeah, exactly. There's so aluminum tubes. Do you think for one second, that

48:25

if that if the State Department under George Bush had access to

48:30

some sort of system, that would, they could instantly send out a

48:34

bat signal to flag all the podcasts that were created? They

48:41

were critical of the idea that there were WMDs in Iraq? Do you

48:45

think that they would have hesitated for one second to do

48:48

that? Of course, they would have done it. And it was completely

48:51

bogus and untrue. But that's, that's if you build this, this

48:57

is what I've tried to say over and over and over it the the

49:02

Terrible idea in this The unfortunate thing in this

49:06

country in the United States, what I'm talking about is every

49:09

every every year, but the left, right, bull crap, it let it it

49:15

is so it ends up pushing things forward, that is in nobody's

49:20

interest. And so it's like well, my guys are in charge right now.

49:24

So I'm gonna get try to silence all the other guys. And you end

49:28

up building a system to where when the power flip you get

49:32

screwed by the thing you build, but that's, that's only with centralized systems. So I really

49:37

am advocating and I will contact her if possible, I say Would you

49:41

please let me give you a little tour of what is possible

49:45

everything permanent everything she says on the list is

49:48

possible. And I welcome it.

49:50

I really meeting you're gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna. Yes, we're gonna pump the brakes and have a

49:56

Zoom meeting. I am all I really am Ford. put some money into

50:01

this thing and use it how you find appropriate. That's totally

50:05

cool. You can build that I would use that dashboard. Um, yeah, I

50:11

mean, I was searched up for Yeah, but I mean predetermine whatever you want to do, that

50:16

it's all good. And then when it flips around, then you can flip

50:20

your system around. There's what is not possible, it's not

50:24

possible to build this for everybody. And that is because

50:27

of the unfortunate nature of RSS. And the unfortunate nature

50:31

nature of a richly diversified hosting environment, which

50:35

includes IPFS. So that genies out of the bottle, but if you

50:40

feel that you need to protect the vulnerable people, then

50:43

please stop writing and wasting your $195 million a year and

50:49

come over here and put some money into the ecosystem and

50:52

build something. I mean, I'm extending my hand here.

50:58

You open palm open palm. Anyway, quite enough of that, I believe. Let's talk about

51:06

subscriptions. Because I know I've been keeping my eye on what

51:11

Buzzsprout did. Because as you know, I have a vested interest

51:15

in moving away from PayPal on no agenda. Just because it's a very

51:20

weak link in the chain. We are we do have a lightning node. And

51:25

as soon as the lightning and this was from Ibex that it

51:29

already works. The way we want it to be it's a great solution

51:32

for people if you want to accept open donations, or you can even

51:36

set a preset amount. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, pause, stop. Are you saying that

51:41

you're back stuff is up and running now as functional?

51:44

rolled it out? We have not, we have not promoted it yet. And the reason

51:50

why is because I would prefer it to also accept key send and it

51:56

doesn't accept key send yet, I want people to also be able to

51:59

use the 2.0 app. So this is the shoehorn I'm using against Ibex

52:04

is like you know, because we'll bring him on this show, we'll

52:07

promote him anything you want. We'll talk about it, I know

52:09

agenda, we'll get other podcasters to use it. But you

52:12

got to have key send enabled so that I can receive booster

52:15

grams, then they're having, I don't know, development is slow.

52:19

And I respect that it's okay. But my point is, we need other

52:25

systems for value for value. Now. PayPal is of course, you

52:32

can do an open PayPal like we have here as well open PayPal

52:36

donation, you can put your note in there, which is also become a

52:39

problem because PayPal shortened the field that you can put a

52:42

note in, which is very annoying, and we have no control over

52:45

that. How long is it Dino? Si? It's like 150 characters is not even a tweet length. It's

52:51

it's George Graham is longer than that. Exactly.

52:56

But it's very rare. That is not really many. And please don't

53:00

email me. There are not many easy systems comparable to pay

53:05

pal subscription that you can set up your subscription. Some

53:09

people do build it yourself. Right. And so and I'm very

53:15

intrigued by what Buzzsprout has done because it links right into

53:20

I think Apple Pay and and Google and Google's pay system. Now

53:28

what I'm still not exactly, I can't I don't think I can

53:32

explain or push a 15% fee through to my podcast partner,

53:38

even though I'm told that it's comparable to everything else,

53:41

it may be comparable to we're better than Patreon but I don't

53:45

see how it can be lower than than PayPal. But regardless, I

53:50

would love to have an open system that we can put into

53:53

podcasting 2.0 apps, it can use any back end system and I have

53:58

two requirements for it to be value for value. One is it can

54:03

be it can the amount has to be open you know some people want

54:08

to send it now. When people send the dollar we actually lose

54:11

money on it. I mean that's that's that's almost run it as

54:14

almost rude. But it's okay. If that's what you want to do.

54:17

That's what you want to do. I want to be Bitcoin I want to be

54:21

anything that that we choose it to be, it has to be open. And in

54:26

in the case of my vision, my vision for podcasting value for

54:31

value. I would like to split to be honored in this because that

54:38

is that is truly something that is unique to our version in

54:42

podcasting. 2.0 of value for value is the splits can flow

54:45

through because I feel if we if we go a subscription amount

54:51

route and leave the app developers out of the system,

54:54

then we've then we've made a mistake. And currently you know

54:58

there's no subscription system that, that can value a split

55:02

architecture, where the podcast can determine what can go to

55:06

other people now, that may not work with, with Fiat fun coupons

55:10

and dollars. But if we implement a subscription system into

55:14

podcasting 2.0, you will be really, really, really beautiful

55:18

to take into account a version of the splits, which we already

55:22

have, that can be incorporated. And I know that you've been

55:25

talking to people about doing exactly this.

55:30

Yeah, and we're in we're gonna have, we're gonna have Tom on

55:33

the show soon. As soon as we've got Tom from Buzzsprout. Yeah,

55:37

yes, for Buzzsprout. Because, you know, their, their vision is

55:41

to have that be, you know, something that is standard,

55:45

standard Eisele that could become open. So that they, I

55:51

think, yes, I think and we, me and him, talked about it this

55:55

week, and hashed out a bunch of ideas. And it was a great, great

55:59

discussion. So he's gonna come on, and we're gonna, like, just

56:02

brainstorm about it on the board meeting, sit here soon, and try

56:05

to see if we can, you know, sort of come up with a with a

56:09

framework or an open an open way to do this, where that where

56:14

basically what they built can just become sort of a standard

56:17

that everybody can can adopt. And I think after talking to

56:20

him, the other, I think it's very doable. And I think it

56:23

would be very, I think it's, I think there's a way to do it,

56:29

where the apps where the apps don't have to, again, re

56:37

architect some new thing, look, so the way that they're, you

56:42

know, the way their system works, and I did this on the Pod

56:48

news weekly review show. So I opened up my cast thematic, I

56:53

hit the the funding button, which on cast Matic is down

56:57

there toward the bottom on the right. So if you have a funding

57:00

tag in your feed, and you hit the button, it'll pop up a web

57:03

view that goes to whatever the funding page is. And so since

57:09

James and Sam had their their subscriptions, set up the other

57:13

Buzzsprout subscription page, in the funding tag, it opened. So

57:18

it opened in a WebView in the app. And right there said, Oh,

57:23

do you want to know do you want to subscribe? And what level

57:26

like 357 10 bucks whatever, Daddy's some options, that's

57:30

a problem there? Yeah, it is. It is. It is. So but I'm just I'm just talking through

57:34

the experience. Sure. I go down, I choose the $10. And I hit a

57:41

hit subscribe, and it comes up. So you want to do Apple Pay, or

57:44

do you want to do a credit card or whatever I hit Apple Pay, because I've already got this set up. Hit it. Face ID me done.

57:51

Back Back to in and then I hit I hit OK. I'm back in the in the

57:57

in cast thematic. I never actually left cast semantics.

58:01

Right. Right. Which is the whole point. That's the whole point. Yeah. So yeah. So in honest and so the

58:07

web nature of this thing is the only way that I see that this

58:14

could work. I'm if I can just interrupt. I'm just looking at that. We said

58:18

just now I see a choose a fan emoji. Where's my notes go? I

58:26

don't just mean I don't see a note in this Buzzsprout thing. I

58:31

did what you just described on pod news weekly review. It opens

58:35

up to support to become a supporter 358 $10 Choose a fan

58:39

emoji name, email, then my credit card. We're missing an

58:44

important part here, which is no, not incredibly important. So

58:49

I just want to and the only reason I'm saying this is

58:51

because the more I can develop this over 15 years we know what

58:55

works we know what doesn't work, we know what's needed.

58:58

So the end again, like so we're gonna have Tom also will talk

59:03

about this more more with him. But I think I think that this is

59:07

my feeling he Tom did not tell me this, but this is my feeling.

59:11

Is they? Is that what you see right now? Was that not an MVP?

59:19

Not not not a minimum product. But that was the thing that they

59:23

could? Did. They felt confident in, in order to make it where

59:27

things did not go south. Because if you if you come out of the

59:32

gate and you enter and you put in something like an empty box

59:35

where somebody can type their own amount, right? You

59:37

immediately have support problems because you have people

59:40

that accidentally typed $2,000 And they're like, Oh crap, I

59:44

need to I need to roll that back. What do I do? Like, I

59:48

think the incarnation that it is right now it was probably the

59:52

safe launch technique.

59:55

Oh, yeah. No, go for a lot of things incredibly hard. This guy

1:00:00

This stuff. Absolutely. We saw Pay Pal struggle enormously. And

1:00:06

I could just tell you where this leads, which is why I like

1:00:08

lightning, which is why I want this implemented in lightning as

1:00:11

well. On PayPal all the time, we get people say, hey, you know,

1:00:18

all of a sudden, my payment is under review. I mean, you have

1:00:22

to do know your customer, you have to do all kinds of stuff to

1:00:26

terrorism financing. When someone does it from overseas,

1:00:29

you get all kinds of issues all this it's a very, it's a hard

1:00:34

business to be in, in the Fiat subscription business is very,

1:00:39

very hard. And kudos to them for doing it at all.

1:00:44

But I think so when we can, we can nail so we can sort of so

1:00:48

nail down a framework when it comes on. But I think my take

1:00:51

away from from our discussion was that it's very, it's it's

1:00:58

not only doable, but I think it's doable in a great way that

1:01:03

keeps the apps from getting in trouble with any app store

1:01:05

policies or anything like that. Like I think I think this could

1:01:09

be a really good thing. So anyway, I think I think it's

1:01:13

great. Yeah. Well, unfortunately, I see a bleak future for any payment

1:01:19

systems in any app store. Just in general. Yeah.

1:01:22

Well, um, so what I mean by that is, when you when you open up a

1:01:27

web view, the way the bad the app stores, force the apps is

1:01:33

they can't take payments in the app through they can't sell

1:01:37

things in the ad, I understand. It has to it has to open a web

1:01:40

browser, it has to open a web browser in this does, you know,

1:01:43

like this is a web based transaction. But you know, that's a very simple policy change to make.

1:01:48

It is yeah, so what we'll see what happens that I don't know

1:01:51

that they're willing, I don't know that the app stores are

1:01:54

willing to go to the mat or something like that. Now with

1:01:58

the current political climate as it is. It's a foregone conclusion in my mind. I mean, the app stores

1:02:04

aren't are evil. They're evil. And the story artists are under

1:02:08

a lot of scrutiny. Yeah, well, then they should allow

1:02:12

Progressive Web Apps Apple should allow it to be done

1:02:15

properly, but they won't because they're evil. Ultimately,

1:02:18

they're greedy and evil. And they the that's the master they

1:02:20

serve and that's okay. But let's not

1:02:23

Mammon. Yes. What? Mammon? Yes, mammon, money. This, like the

1:02:29

old biblical term for money is mammon, Ma. What are their

1:02:33

master? Yeah, they serve their master mammon, wealth regarded

1:02:37

as an evil influence or false object of worship and devotion.

1:02:40

Well, it is. And but then that's okay. It's just let I always get

1:02:47

so sad when I see people trying to get around exactly this

1:02:50

problem, says all all Apple has to do is if they don't feel like

1:02:53

it today, or Google, and you're seeing as Google is, by the way,

1:02:57

did I not say that this is a quagmire? It's a piece of crap.

1:03:01

And it's a big mistake this whole chat GPT just see what

1:03:03

happened to Google. And I heard something about there was a fail on launch or

1:03:08

something that I'd never saw. So first of all details,

1:03:11

they named it that they named their chat bot, barf. bar, bar,

1:03:17

bar bar, okay, bar, but we just call it Google barf. And, and

1:03:23

the first the first question that was asked, gave an

1:03:26

incorrect answer, the stock price drops 9% 9%. And it's in

1:03:33

his boat there. Now the now they're fighting over book,

1:03:36

every engineer knows that what is happening here is not really

1:03:41

spectacular. It's a it's a parlor trick. I mean, it

1:03:46

especially if it can't even get the answers, right, which is

1:03:48

always going to be subjective. That's why you win a search, you

1:03:51

get a list of links. Well, here's what most people clicked

1:03:55

on. Okay. But now you have something coming back and

1:03:59

saying, Well, I think this is what's happening. This is the

1:04:01

answer to your question. Well, that's gonna be wrong. Lots of

1:04:05

times. You know what I mean?

1:04:08

Yeah, if you if you take, that could be a way too. That can be

1:04:14

the ultimate cya. If you think about it, like, if you just if

1:04:19

you change your algorithm to just to just generate an answer

1:04:23

based on on a quote model was like, Oh, I'm sorry. We just

1:04:28

need to tweak the model. Yeah. And I know it's giving you wrong

1:04:31

information, but we just need to tweak the models. It's going to

1:04:33

destroy these getting killed. Oh, we just need to tweak the

1:04:37

model. I mean, it's going it's the demise of Google because they

1:04:41

now are running after something that they know they know. And

1:04:45

Sundar Pichai. He's not a marketing guy. He's a nerd. He's

1:04:48

a technology guy. He knows what real AI looks like real machine

1:04:52

learning, and it's not really anything even appropriate for

1:04:55

consumers. So this parlor trick of taking the Some economists

1:05:00

asked Jeeves only you know, they they improved it great. Well,

1:05:05

you get, you're getting a real world answer by something that

1:05:08

pretends to be a human being, and everyone is just going to

1:05:10

fall for this, but it's not going to deliver the profits to

1:05:13

them. And Microsoft is going to be interesting, because they

1:05:17

want to put this into all of their products. So you know, you

1:05:20

open up Word, and you just say, type and apology letter, you

1:05:23

know, type of resume, and it'll just start to get it all going

1:05:26

for you. And everyone will be kind of the same NPC non playing

1:05:30

character drone, and you'll have all the same answers and all the

1:05:33

same information will be no, and the people that will stand out,

1:05:36

we'll be the ones that that are odd.

1:05:39

So I don't know about you. I don't know if you've had any

1:05:43

experience with this. But it's become popular now within

1:05:47

Outlook and Gmail and all these different email clients to it,

1:05:51

when you begin to type a reply. It'll want to like, auto

1:05:54

complete your reply for you. I don't usually say I don't have any of it. Okay, well,

1:05:59

it's very common now. So you'll, you'll start to say, somebody

1:06:02

else send you a thing and say, Hey, can you go can you get this

1:06:06

information from me? And you say, and you start to reply.

1:06:10

Yeah, I'm in the middle of something right now. And maybe

1:06:13

it'll suggest to you that you autocomplete it with, but I'll

1:06:18

get to that here in a few minutes. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Of course, of course, of course.

1:06:23

So that's, so that's this, like, if you take that to the next

1:06:26

level, and have it auto generate an entire email to you, that

1:06:30

would be sort of like this, this sort of model. But the way that

1:06:33

I, what I've begun doing is in this sort of, like subconscious

1:06:38

at the beginning, I would get these suggestions, of replies.

1:06:45

And I would immediately see, I would see this gesture of green,

1:06:47

you see that it's filled with this gentleman, I would say

1:06:50

Yeah, and I would, I would reject it. Because even though

1:06:53

it's what I was about to say, I don't want the other person to

1:06:57

think that I just hit a button and didn't actually think about

1:07:00

what I was saying. Like, I don't want to give them a canned

1:07:03

response. Because I don't want it to appear rude or is right

1:07:07

here. This started with. I'm driving right now. I'll call you later.

1:07:12

Yeah, that means like, why don't why don't you just turn your

1:07:15

phone off them? You know, right? Or ever hear of hands free?

1:07:20

Bluetooth? And yeah, perfect example. Anyway, a long, long,

1:07:26

long arc around all that. Let's go to social interact API

1:07:30

endpoint. Very excited about this. Yes, it is.

1:07:34

Now, why did you build this? And what's the idea? And what is it

1:07:37

because it seems like something dynamite Well, a built it. Well built is a little bit, not the right

1:07:44

term. You built it. I invented podcasts, you built the API, trust me, it's

1:07:48

the same thing. Okay. So social interact wasn't in the API response. It just wasn't

1:07:57

there. So it needed to be there to begin with. They just

1:08:00

interested missing is just a fee. It's just a tag that had

1:08:02

not gotten around to yet. And it needed to be there. So and there

1:08:09

was nothing in the whole chain there was no it was not being

1:08:12

aggregated. It was not being someone's feed if it's in there, and it's not he wasn't even in

1:08:18

the database. Yet. Nothing. No, no, I didn't know that. None of that. Oh,

1:08:23

wow. So so I had no words

1:08:25

here. No one No wonder this wasn't off the ground yet. Now,

1:08:30

I understand the problem. I seriously, I didn't know that. I

1:08:32

didn't know that the root post was not no not your fault. No, I

1:08:36

didn't know that. I would have gone easier on everybody. I

1:08:39

didn't know what the root post wasn't available in the API.

1:08:43

Pardon me Ah, well, I did I so I had to go and put it into party time. So that

1:08:51

would go get aggregated in then build the tables. And this just

1:08:56

kind of goes into something else we can talk about to the brain

1:08:59

which is no no no, which is deleting old episodes, when they

1:09:06

appeared. When they do yes, I have this on my list too. So you can explain that to

1:09:11

everybody how easy it is,

1:09:14

we can do a mash up here. Alright. So the way that the

1:09:22

table the table structure in the database is for the API is for

1:09:26

the index is we have we have a news feeds table. And this

1:09:31

terminology this terminology came from the initial scheme it

1:09:35

came from Freedom controller so some of these terminologies I

1:09:39

loved I loved that there's legacy and there is beauty.

1:09:44

So the podcasts table is called newsfeeds. The episodes table is

1:09:51

called items, for obvious reasons. So excuse me, NF items

1:09:58

is called NF items. So The newsfeeds table has a foreign

1:10:05

key relationship with the NF Items table. So the NF Items

1:10:10

table references the news, the N ID in the news feeds table. And

1:10:18

then, so that there's linkage between the two, there's a

1:10:21

relationship episode and the and the fetus and the podcast itself, right.

1:10:25

And then a whole lot of tables hang off of each one of those.

1:10:31

So there's a thing called NF NF underscore value. Well, those

1:10:37

are, those are the value blocks. And they have a foreign key

1:10:41

relationship, that table, the NF underscore value has a foreign

1:10:43

key relationship with the news feed stable, so that we can so

1:10:47

that we can pull a news feed, and then also do a join in the

1:10:52

SQL in order to get the value blocks, but the value blocks

1:10:55

themselves are stored in a different table. These sorts of

1:11:00

table relationships are important, because you can you

1:11:05

can separate you can have a same schema and separate concerns.

1:11:09

And you can also update various bits of data in different tables

1:11:13

without necessarily locking, locking tables in the other.

1:11:16

Could you explain just so I I've heard this term, first of all, having

1:11:22

run some companies and worked with DBAs, database, design

1:11:28

management, coaxing massaging it is as much voodoo and magic and

1:11:38

experience and maybe even religion as it is technology is

1:11:42

my experience. Yes, and yes, yes. But you can do things

1:11:47

exactly the same in one database will behave differently from the

1:11:51

other one. What is this locking business? Why does it occur? And

1:11:55

is it good? Is it bad? And good? Can you just give us a short

1:12:00

primer on the locking of tables?

1:12:03

Well, so the so if you think about it, when you these are

1:12:08

calls, these are called atomic operations. So you have to you

1:12:12

have to be sure that when you put when you when you do a

1:12:15

transaction to a database, you have to be sure that the data is

1:12:20

not going to change in the middle of, of the change you're

1:12:24

trying to make. So if you have parallel operations going on, if

1:12:27

you have, if you have one process that's trying to update

1:12:30

a table and another process that trying to delete records out of

1:12:33

a table, who who wins? Do they both happen at the same time?

1:12:38

Because then you have been you have corruption you have? Yeah.

1:12:42

So you have to, you have to lock in at least some portion of the

1:12:46

table, maybe not the entire table, but you have to lock the

1:12:50

records that could potentially be changed. So you use something

1:12:53

called a query. It's, I'm losing it, I'm losing the terminology.

1:13:03

But it's like a query plan, I'm sorry, query plan. So the query

1:13:07

plan, look, you know, SM ends up estimating what table rows are

1:13:15

going to be affected by certain action. And in certain

1:13:19

circumstances, if if it looks if it sees that there's a potential

1:13:23

for conflict, it will lock those particular rows so that you

1:13:27

don't get database corruption. Wow. Okay. Locking is, is

1:13:32

critical to safety. It's a it's a, it's a safety mechanism. And

1:13:37

so you can get around Yeah, and Table Table locking is is

1:13:42

something you have to avoid at all costs. And so most of the

1:13:47

design of a database, other than performance, your performance is

1:13:52

trying to get around some of these things, like locking so

1:13:55

that you don't, so that you don't hamstring yourself. So we

1:14:00

have the NF items, you know, NF Items table, but just like NF

1:14:05

underscore value, there's also an NF underscore value, excuse

1:14:10

me an NF items underscore value that has relationship back to

1:14:13

the NF Items table. So those are episode level split blocks, now

1:14:17

that you blocked and so in, so what I did was create a new

1:14:21

table. I'm just going through this because I think it's maybe

1:14:24

it's beneficial for people to understand how beneficial

1:14:26

I'm enjoying it very, I'm enjoying it a lot more than the

1:14:29

discussion about fees and splits in the last show.

1:14:32

Okay, okay. Good, this is good. Okay, so then, what I did was

1:14:39

went and created an NF underscore social interact

1:14:41

table. And then that has a foreign key relationship to the

1:14:46

NF Items table. So you have an NF NF items and then you have

1:14:50

relationship to NF items underscore social interact. So

1:14:54

as party time sees arrays of feed, parses it sees there's a

1:14:58

social interact tag in it it up, it inserts a record or updates

1:15:02

or record in the NF items underscore social interact table

1:15:08

to insert that entry in there. That that is the initial, that's

1:15:15

the, that's you're setting up the schema, okay? Then you go in

1:15:19

there and change Chain, make the modifications to party times,

1:15:22

like you've got your scheme. And now, then you go and change in

1:15:24

the parser to add in the discovery, parsing and database

1:15:31

insertion of the social interact tax. So now you're, now you've

1:15:35

got things populating in that table in the database, then the

1:15:39

final step is to go in there and look and actually change the

1:15:43

endpoint. Well, intermediary step, you go and you find the

1:15:48

lower level database call. In the API's sort of low level

1:15:53

functions itself, there's a thing called a function called

1:15:56

Get get items by feed ID three, that's the name of the function.

1:16:01

And that is responsible for pulling for you give it a

1:16:06

podcast, index ID feed ID, and it gives you back all of the

1:16:10

items that go to all the episodes that belong to it as a

1:16:15

structure, then, and that function is referenced by the

1:16:20

API endpoint, which is slash episodes by feed ID. So

1:16:26

episodes, episodes by feed ID calls get get items by feed ID

1:16:32

three. And that's where it gets us data. So you go in there and

1:16:36

change get episodes by feed ID three, to also do a left join on

1:16:42

the table on this new table, and F items underscore social

1:16:46

interact. Now it's getting the social interact tags back with

1:16:50

it along in the same query that it gets the episodes with. So

1:16:55

you're still only doing one database call. Now you've got

1:16:59

this extra this extra data that you're going on in the background there. Yeah. Okay, so how does

1:17:06

deleting an episode screw it all up?

1:17:09

Well, okay, so let me set the use case that people understand. Because I am

1:17:15

now in charge of incoming customer support, which is info

1:17:19

podcast index.org. And basically, people go delete my

1:17:22

show, and that's kind of it or I deleted this episode, you're

1:17:27

still hosting it? Can you notice the the increase in the level of people asking

1:17:32

for stuff to be removed? It's I have a lot more than it used to

1:17:35

be. I have I don't know why I'm not quite sure. What's going on. I

1:17:42

do get a lot of Buzzsprout said to call you. Yes, I get a lot of

1:17:48

that. Buzzsprout? What are you telling them like Buzzsprout use

1:17:51

it because people will delete it. I think what's happening is,

1:17:55

for whatever reason, people are not liking some of their

1:17:58

episodes. The thing some people are moving to different models,

1:18:03

maybe subscription model, and they want to delete certain

1:18:06

older episodes, and they delete it. And then they and then they

1:18:11

you know, for whatever reason, they find out that it still

1:18:14

doesn't work. But it's listed in podcast index. And you know,

1:18:18

they assume a that we stolen it, you can feel the undertone a lot

1:18:22

of this is why are you hosting this? Why is it still there?

1:18:25

Why? You know, it's like, they don't know what and I

1:18:27

understand. So we're very cool. But it's it literally is because

1:18:32

we have not root because a lot most of these, we won't refresh

1:18:35

for you know what, I don't know what the frequency is refreshing

1:18:38

most of these feeds, when it's refreshed them. I think it all

1:18:41

changes, then it those episodes are removed or maybe not. But

1:18:46

that is what seems to have to take place. But that operation

1:18:51

seems to be complicated. Isn't it is it is complicated in and I will tell you that it's

1:18:57

complicated mostly by financial constraints. Do we know? We

1:19:05

cannot? If if we had the budget to throw lots of money at a huge

1:19:12

database instance, I would fix this with power. Okay, of

1:19:15

course, with just more power I stop. Okay, what do we need?

1:19:21

Oh, no. I mean, like, in order to do this in close to real

1:19:23

time, yeah, we would need a very, very big database that we

1:19:29

can't afford. I need I know we can't afford it. But I'd like to know, he put

1:19:34

a number on it is $1,000 a month? Is it $10,000 a month? I

1:19:38

mean, just whatever you think it might be more or less.

1:19:42

I can't put a number on it without doing some research and

1:19:44

we do some research on that because that would be a great

1:19:46

thing to ask for. Yeah, sure.

1:19:48

So you've hurt us. You scale vertical first. And then before

1:19:53

you scale horizontal, I mean, you just you just go you make

1:19:56

your database bigger. That's the way you Solve problems as

1:20:01

problems of this type. And let me describe to you what I mean

1:20:04

by this type. So the the reason that we can't do this in real

1:20:12

time, Alexa, what Daniel J. Lewis said, he's like, we just

1:20:14

download the feed, and just replace what's already there.

1:20:18

That's not the way that's not the way it works. Because you so

1:20:21

we have, as I described, we have the NFA Items table that has

1:20:25

about 110 million episodes in it. The, in order to there's

1:20:33

about 25 to 35,000 database transactions a minute, currently

1:20:39

on average in the in the index, if you and we have 10

1:20:44

aggregators. So we have aggregators, zero through nine,

1:20:48

they're all aggregating and inserting data at

1:20:52

simultaneously, simultaneously. Yes, so we have, you know, 10

1:20:55

different streams of database connections that are happening.

1:20:58

So peaks, it peaks out maybe 40,000 transactions a minute,

1:21:02

typically, at that volume, it doesn't take, but just a few

1:21:10

attempts at deleting records out of that size of a table, to

1:21:15

where it could potentially lock large portions of the table

1:21:18

where and that and when that happens. All the all the if one

1:21:23

aggregator does tries to do a large delete, let's just say

1:21:28

that it hits a podcast that has 20,000 episodes when it would

1:21:32

there are some in there. This podcast has 20,000 episodes. And

1:21:36

let's just say that 1000 of them disappear, because this is some

1:21:39

crazy, weird podcast. So you also you're going to delete 1000

1:21:43

records out of this out of the table. If it locks a large

1:21:47

portion of the table. All all nine other aggregators then have

1:21:52

to halt and wait for it to finish. If if it doesn't finish

1:21:56

fast enough, they could time out and just have to restart.

1:22:00

I'm super excited by this Congress. I thought I thought it

1:22:03

was going to fall asleep. But I'm really I really this has

1:22:06

become very exciting actually to listen to, for a number of

1:22:08

reasons. One, doesn't blockchain solve this? Blockchain solves it

1:22:17

to noster we're gonna, Nasir can solve all this it goes away overnight. Give us some

1:22:23

bitcoin Jack. But Jack Dorsey. The so is this. If you could if

1:22:30

you had to start over again and do a different database design?

1:22:33

Would that make a difference? Or is this just a fact of life and

1:22:36

database? That's a good question. And I don't know how to really answer

1:22:42

it. It's possible that if I had to go back and do this over I

1:22:45

may have a may have every a May May as I just don't know, put

1:22:50

everything as it is now and put all the episode data in an own

1:22:56

and only the episode data in a NoSQL database that that's

1:22:59

possible. I still don't know if that's ideal. I would a lot of

1:23:04

this stuff takes trial and error to figure out whether or not as

1:23:08

it's it's to figure out whether it's stable. Again, I've had

1:23:13

probably no sequel is it's eventually consistent. And

1:23:17

that's right. Eventually eventual consistency with

1:23:22

something like this is really a problem. You have to have some

1:23:25

some guarantees. Is this what those plus guys figured out? What does the what

1:23:31

was it plus? What's the name of that company that has a datum?

1:23:33

Forget about it. This is really interesting. I'm glad that you

1:23:38

that you're laying this out because people have no I mean,

1:23:40

even people who are in the business clearly don't really. I

1:23:44

know, Daniel J. Lewis didn't have all the pieces together.

1:23:48

This was interesting problem. Yeah. And I think, I think Daniel J. Lewis uses Mongo. So

1:23:54

he uses a no SQL database. And this, he's not constrained by

1:23:58

schema. But the doubt, like I said, the downside of no sequel

1:24:03

is you have a promise of eventual consistency. That's not

1:24:08

good enough for for what we're doing. Right? We have to have,

1:24:12

we have to have a guarantee of consistency. And so like he's,

1:24:15

he's, he's using he's doing stats. Right? Very different.

1:24:20

Very different, very different use case. Okay. I, I would love to

1:24:26

know what, I think you should do that. Let's find out what it

1:24:29

cost. And let's figure out a way to make that happen. We'll see

1:24:33

what it looks me we know kind of our budget, we're not paying

1:24:36

ourselves. So this all all goes into the into the systems, but

1:24:42

everybody would benefit. Well, that goes back to sort of the financial question because

1:24:47

you have, like, if you think I mean, if you look at what if you

1:24:52

look at what we have coming in as income. So here's how, you

1:24:55

know, we started this thing saying okay, we want to make

1:24:59

sure or that. So what was promised people, we made a

1:25:02

promise to people that we're going to have an API that was

1:25:06

free forever. And that was the promise. In order

1:25:12

to that's all we promised. We promised controversy, we

1:25:16

promised all kinds of stuff. Okay. unwritten with

1:25:19

regards to an API web API. And that it was, yes, you're right.

1:25:25

We did promise controversial. And so we promised an API that

1:25:29

would be free for for anybody's use forever. I think that's the

1:25:32

language we use now. And in order to fulfill that promise.

1:25:37

What we did was we said, Okay, we're not we're going to, as

1:25:42

soon as we make, as soon as we have more money in income than

1:25:45

we're spending in in expenses each month, we're going to keep

1:25:49

that we're going to stash that money in the bank for as long as

1:25:51

it takes to build up some number x number of years of hosting

1:25:57

fees, where if something happened, and one of us got

1:26:01

sick, or something happened, and the project got derailed, we

1:26:04

would have an X amount of years of runway where even if we had

1:26:07

no income whatsoever, the the API would continue to function.

1:26:12

And so in order to make that happen, we have to keep our

1:26:15

expenses low enough to where we're still building money. So

1:26:20

we're, you know, for if we're putting a few $100 in the bank,

1:26:26

after expenses every month, it's going to take, you know, 345

1:26:31

years to build up a decent runway. Well, we don't we don't

1:26:34

really we're keeping our right. But we really don't we really don't know yet what it

1:26:38

would take to supercharge our database.

1:26:41

We don't we don't but that was the financial thinking that we

1:26:44

that we engaged in? Yes. We support a lot of different things, you know, we're still,

1:26:50

you know, ln pay, we're still paying a fee amount for that,

1:26:54

that keeps a couple of apps running with wallets, which, you

1:26:57

know, that may go away over time. I mean, there's all kinds

1:26:59

of stuff that, that we put into this to make the whole ecosystem

1:27:03

work. Right. And I just want to make that I just think that's

1:27:08

important that people understand that we, we have we're, we're

1:27:12

running the database, and we're running the API now. But that's

1:27:16

not the only concern. We want it we have to do we have to

1:27:20

concerns run the database, run the API now. And make sure that

1:27:24

the the API can run for years in the future. And so for that

1:27:28

reason, we cannot spend all the money that we would take in we

1:27:33

have to save some. And that and that means that we have to, even

1:27:38

though we like last month, I think you'd be added up. It was

1:27:40

like $2,000. We had $2,000 in income last month. And we had

1:27:45

$1,200 of expenses, that we can't spend 2000 Because we get

1:27:50

2000. Because then it one month goes by and we don't have enough

1:27:53

income. We're debt we're out. Well, we're out of the game

1:27:56

is just a moment, we can thank a few people who have been

1:27:59

supporting the index. Yeah. And then we'll come back. And we'll

1:28:03

talk about green light for a moment before we wrap it up for

1:28:05

today. Yep. And I wanted to, I wanted to start off with a big

1:28:11

thank you to he did this last year as well. Sir anonymous of

1:28:19

Dogpatch and Lois LeBeau via who is nice, I don't know who this

1:28:23

is, other than he donates every month to no agenda. And it's

1:28:29

always through the mail. It's, it's always cash. It's always

1:28:33

from literally from a mailbox on the street. And he sent to our

1:28:38

Pio box. And and when I saw this, I mean, I know you had the

1:28:42

same I sent you a picture. I was like, Oh, man $3,006 all in

1:28:48

cash, with a note for podcasting. 2.0 Thank you to all

1:28:53

that are working to keep free speech available to the masses.

1:28:56

And so it's not our database money. But wow. humbled by this.

1:29:03

I think he did something similar last when we started right. And

1:29:05

he did some decent he didn't he sent us a $4,000 in cash last

1:29:09

year. Yeah. Yeah. It's always an odd number. He literally sent $2 bills,

1:29:14

three $3 bills. So I don't know, I never figured out the numbers.

1:29:19

But thank you very much. So animus with Dogpatch and Lois

1:29:21

Bovie. That means so meaningful to us. And that goes right into

1:29:25

our into our savings into our bank for the years that we want

1:29:30

to keep it running. Yeah, we're doing taxes right now. And we literally had this

1:29:33

discussion this morning. It's like, we're you know, we'll just

1:29:36

take out what we need to pay the taxes and the stays in the bank.

1:29:39

Yes, everyone understands, like, it's a pass through LLC. So money that comes

1:29:45

in literally Dave and I are taxed on it ourselves. So we we

1:29:49

only take out that, that we have to pay on our personal income

1:29:53

taxes. Right. The IRS treats it as if we made money even though it's

1:29:58

still in a bank account that we haven't done yet. If you don't

1:30:00

have it and on the note and on the note Yeah,

1:30:03

right. Alright. That's huge. Yeah. Thank you. Thank

1:30:07

you so much pressure on me. All right, couple of couple of lit

1:30:12

boosts booster grams that came in. We have oh, just help,

1:30:17

although he will be coming in later. We have 5015 sets, from

1:30:22

comics through blogger. And he says, Yeah, I mean, we know

1:30:26

he'll come in later as he is the delimiter solution to your large

1:30:30

database problem is cockroach labs.com/product. Affordable

1:30:34

cloud native elastic scale distributed database. Yeah, how

1:30:40

much does this cost? I don't know if we're gonna find out,

1:30:43

but we need to know. Well, thank you comment your blog and we'll

1:30:47

find out well, all of this stuff will we'll find out. We have

1:30:52

33,369 from blueberry this is all within the lips timeframe of

1:30:57

the show. And he has a disparaging comment about twit,

1:31:02

which I'm just not going to read. Now that does no need for

1:31:06

that. 33,333 from Eric p p Thank you very much. cimp 100% x D D D

1:31:14

got him. 100% 36 912 we have Chad F 33 333,003 333 3333. Can

1:31:27

I get the JCD you will obey jhingo will obey or you will

1:31:30

obey you will obey we have lavished with 6666 incentive

1:31:36

boosts. Thank you, Mike Dell with 25,000. Now we're talking

1:31:39

round two blueberries PCPA PC 2.0 tags in progress. CO

1:31:44

podcasting he says we have 33,333 from SU pipe pipe CD. I'm

1:31:56

not going to type that in my command line loving the pod

1:31:58

verse love. Oh, of course. Well, we would love CD. Yeah. From the from the socials. Yeah. We love

1:32:04

all the apps. We love all of our apps. Chat F 3333. Again, remember Adam that

1:32:09

Na is a comedy show, so it doesn't count as a political

1:32:12

podcast. It's true. It's true. We have more IDs from contracts

1:32:19

with 13,579. Our evolution from a stats package to the home of

1:32:23

value for value creators starts next week with the integration

1:32:27

of podcaster wallet beyond excited Oh, we got that

1:32:30

together. You have an API keys. Oh, that's so cool. That was a

1:32:34

great on ramp for value for value. And by the way today as

1:32:37

of right now, I have the stats on the standby. 11,871 feeds

1:32:44

with value blocks up about 30 from yesterday. It used to be

1:32:48

one or two a day now we're at you know 20 or 30 a day new

1:32:51

value for value podcasts are very excited about that. Steve

1:32:55

Webb he is the OG God caster sir OG God caster with Whoa, a super

1:33:00

striper boost 77,777 Whoa, just saying hey, oh, and inviting the

1:33:07

PC 2.0 community to join the Lifespring family and reading

1:33:10

through the Bible in a year at audio Bible dot link. We'd love

1:33:14

to have you join us in our 13th Season go podcasting go God

1:33:18

cast. Does that mean that they've read things read through the Bible?

1:33:23

13 times? Yes, it means yes, yes. 13 Yeah, it does a whole year. And he's done it. Well, he

1:33:30

was one of the god casters were very early to understand what

1:33:34

was going on with podcasting. So I think Buzzsprout got their start as a God cast or

1:33:39

repository. I think they did like I believe it. No, I believe it. I believe it

1:33:44

wasn't gonna say Oh, do you remember Lilly and X? who

1:33:50

remember the band Lillian x? Well, well, it's interesting

1:33:54

because they haven't. They released 10 albums in their

1:33:58

career and they're in the Louisiana Hall of Fame and

1:34:02

Songwriters Hall of Fame. And when they first came out their

1:34:07

very first video I debuted on headbangers ball, and so they

1:34:11

have a new video coming out. And

1:34:15

and I'm old now. They're my age, ancient. And they have a new video a new out

1:34:21

new video coming out. And they sent me a note and said, Hey,

1:34:24

ma'am, we love what you're doing. And we'd love for you to

1:34:27

intro our new video to put in the video reminding people that

1:34:32

35 years ago, you premiered us on headbangers ball. And you

1:34:37

know, we'd love to do that with a new video. And are you going

1:34:39

to do it? Well, so here's what's interesting. I'm looking at this

1:34:42

video. I'm like, I kind of look at is this a Satan band? Or what

1:34:46

is it? Until I got all the way through the video? I'm like, Oh,

1:34:50

I look them up. Yeah, you know, Christian man, I didn't know

1:34:52

that. And so of course I'm gonna do that too. Yeah, name of the album. Yes. Yeah.

1:34:58

So of course we're gonna do that it was just interest thinking that I had no idea that they were a Christian rock band. And

1:35:03

you wouldn't know necessarily until you see the video, which

1:35:06

is pretty funny. They still they still have humor. They're still

1:35:09

gonna say you're gonna you're gonna do this. Yeah, of course.

1:35:13

Hey everybody remember me? I'm old.

1:35:18

Less hair. That's right 2121 From tone record pod verse.fm is snappy

1:35:23

with this latest update props to Mitch and team. Sir Spencer 6969

1:35:28

Love at the work the board. I love all the work the board and

1:35:33

its members have put into the live experience. Live items

1:35:36

first birthday is coming up. We are excited to celebrate with

1:35:38

Dave on a bowls with buds at the end of the month. More details

1:35:41

to come green heart emoji desert. Oh, that's right. We guesting on the guest

1:35:46

Nice Nice nice. Let me see tone record sent a short row of ducks

1:35:51

with a testing thank you all for the tests. And I think we're I

1:35:58

think that you have everything from there on out. So let's

1:36:03

let's thank the people with the booster grams that came in.

1:36:05

Well, we got to pay pal. One one singular Pay Pal. Yeah, the one

1:36:10

from from our buddy Todd. He says, Hey guys, Todd. See. I want to

1:36:17

thank you for all the hard work you're doing here. Let's keep

1:36:19

the features coming. Mike and I are planning what our next round

1:36:22

of implementations will be for podcasters missing out on fun

1:36:25

migrate to blueberry today. Go podcasting. Oh, nice. Oh, that qualifies. Sakala 20 is blades on the

1:36:34

Impala my dog hates that jingle. She thinks that singing shock collar

1:36:39

so she always runs away when I play. big baller shot caller.

1:36:44

Oh, Daddy, no. We got to 54321 from our buddy Roy. Oh, talking about tennis.

1:36:52

We're gonna talk about Roy in his endeavors in a moment for sure.

1:36:56

Yeah, we we will. One of my endeavors is to get right back

1:37:00

on the show. So you can talk to us about it. Well, he's not ready. He's got something to talk about.

1:37:03

Finally, Jean been

1:37:06

1337 lead booster cast Matic. He says, I don't think removing

1:37:09

emails were blowing it Buzzsprout, among other can put

1:37:12

the email back in for 24 hours or another small amount of time

1:37:15

to facilitate the validation. Yes, right. Yes, we've learned that didn't know it. And

1:37:20

interestingly, we had a support email come in. It's still it's

1:37:25

it's still causing support. Increased support actions. Can

1:37:29

you remove this? Yeah, do you mind just sending this from from

1:37:34

the email address that is in your feed, and I see that you're

1:37:36

Buzzsprout you can have that put back into your feed reply comes

1:37:41

in, you can click on our E on our webpage and see that it's

1:37:44

the email so people don't want to do it. Yeah. People also

1:37:49

think that we're, you know, like, like Amazon or something

1:37:53

like, and I can't blame them for for, for thinking that we're as

1:37:58

Silicon Valley company, but even so, wow, privileged much. I

1:38:04

mean, if people are very rude Todd from Northern Virginia 3333 through breweries, and he says,

1:38:12

What did I miss? Milkshake? I pray this is some sort of inside

1:38:16

joke. No, it's it is literally a milkshake made of made from beef

1:38:21

protein. It's delicious. And it tastes like hamburger.

1:38:26

No, it tastes like chocolate. They it is it is the what does

1:38:31

this stuff Alex gage turned you on this didn't he was telling me

1:38:34

no, no, no, Dan Benjamin did oh prime is that what this is going

1:38:39

to equip? Yes, Prime protein grass fed beef isolate protein

1:38:44

powder from equipped foods and you throw it in water. Water mill I

1:38:49

put in milk and milk and ice cubes and like some

1:38:52

ice cubes, milk and ice cubes. Yeah,

1:38:54

it makes like a slushy. It's good. Like it's like a it tastes

1:38:57

like ice cream. Are you still eating like actual beef like the KFC stuff? Okay,

1:39:02

good. Yeah, this is my supercharge. This is my super beef charge.

1:39:06

Yeah. Yes, the quip. quip is the name of the thing. Coupon Code

1:39:11

podcasting. 2.0 G Jean bien again 2222 through cast thematic

1:39:16

just talking about where to put Mastodon comments. I'm wondering

1:39:19

if Todd could partner with Vivaldi are similar. They're

1:39:22

offering Mastodon accounts to all their users. Possible. Jean

1:39:27

began 22 to 22 through bigass demanding he says really enjoyed

1:39:30

hearing what Todd and crew were doing. also agree that it would

1:39:33

be awesome if some 2.0 features came to overcast. I love that

1:39:36

app. I do too. And I'm hoping that the firt I've sort of

1:39:39

separately hoping the first thing he implements other than

1:39:42

that I think transcripts is always good for accessibility is

1:39:45

live because I know that he he does a lot with users

1:39:47

himself. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, right. Hard Hat one a one a one a binary boost through Kira

1:39:53

Castro. No note thank you hard hat, chaos. 99 5000 SATs and he

1:39:58

says another great episode. Thank you. Thank you. Mere

1:40:01

Mortals our buddy Kyron 11111 through fountain he says, I'm so

1:40:06

damn pumped. It feels like we've ditched the skis and hijacked a

1:40:10

snowmobile. Satchel or Richards for the win

1:40:16

ice 100% I think what you meant was absolutely absolutely

1:40:20

yes. completely full on.

1:40:24

Build up Prague 1000 SATs through potrayed. He says

1:40:27

testing testing had no idea pod friend is abandoned. Looks like

1:40:31

it's still working. I don't think he's rewriting.

1:40:34

It still works very well actually. Bill Prague again 1000 says stupid friend. He says there is

1:40:40

a protocol that you use for some time now that has private public

1:40:43

keys you can use to log into 100 plus apps and all your followers

1:40:47

are there. All your comments are also there. Cross app comments.

1:40:50

This news was boost was made possible. Thanks to Brian and

1:40:53

Hi. Bye. Not letting me boost over 1000 need to spin those

1:40:59

sets. It must be so I know how this feels when you when you have a

1:41:03

technology that's been around for a long time and it works and

1:41:07

then people come along with something called noster and just

1:41:10

pisses you off. I feel you Brian I feel Yeah.

1:41:16

Bill Prague again. 1003 potrayed he says looks like I have to

1:41:19

boost 10 times 1000 SATs Pedialyte pod friends on the

1:41:23

browser. It was playing video, but he's given the ode to pod

1:41:26

friend but pod friends still lives man. Yeah, it's not that

1:41:29

okay. Rob Suzuki through fountain 2421. He says thanks

1:41:35

for your value to the Podcast Movement. Greetings from

1:41:37

Dominican Republic. No Hello, Dominican Republic.

1:41:41

3000 from forest K Farscape. Ian through fountain no note CASP

1:41:48

eland 3690. Through fountain he says I have a question about the

1:41:52

splits. I was happy atmosphere.

1:41:55

How do you calculate? I was happily streaming 17 sets a minute. I think calculate the

1:42:01

first split percentage goes to the highest percent. Oh god.

1:42:04

No, no, no. Don't take me there. Don't take. Don't take me down

1:42:09

that road. No. Are you bending this question?

1:42:14

No, I'm not banning, of course. I think I think calculate the first split percentage goes to

1:42:20

the highest percentage. And then calculating down. Streaming less

1:42:24

than one set a minute is not a thing. So let's see. I'm gonna

1:42:28

show 22 sets a minute pop up. Don't mind the small difference.

1:42:34

Oh, I'm so lost. CASS Cass sent me an email. I can't do it. It's

1:42:40

too much. I have a small complaint. Before I forget. Yeah. You know, I add

1:42:49

a lot of podcasts manually for people who don't see the Add

1:42:51

button. Yeah, the one that's at the top of the way, the one that

1:42:56

says Add? Yes. Can we change the sunflowers? Why I keep getting

1:43:03

sunflowers in the caption? It's always the sunflowers. I don't

1:43:08

trust it. I need something else. What do I get sunflowers all the

1:43:12

time. I get trumpets. I do every time

1:43:17

I'll trade trumpets for sunflowers for a day. Just for a

1:43:20

day. clear your cookies. Over your cookies. Okay. All right. Thank

1:43:25

you. You're becoming a help desk guy. I'm gonna I'm gonna. I'm

1:43:27

putting so JD when someone says my episodes have been updated. I'm gonna say clear

1:43:33

your cookies. Reboot rebooting. This is where we're turning you into a

1:43:41

helpdesk. Feeling good about it. Yes. Every time when you get off

1:43:45

a helpdesk call. You have to turn around a bitch to your co

1:43:48

workers about how stupid the person was. Like you're like,

1:43:51

Oh, you mean the Add button at the top? It was hard to spot.

1:43:57

Okay, Satoshi stream 5552. Through fountain This is

1:44:01

Benjamin at FOSDEM was good. Yes. Benjamin Bellamy.

1:44:04

Yeah. Oh, yeah, we forgot to talk about that. Good job,

1:44:07

Benjamin. Yeah, great slideshow. Oh, awesome. Like, chop and dropped

1:44:13

and killed his numbers right after the show. Love or hate the way he goes. This is not a podcast. This is a

1:44:20

podcast like a big RSS feed code. Yeah, Victoria needs to

1:44:27

see that so she understands what's happening.

1:44:29

Yeah. Who is the fountain? He says due to precision issues. We

1:44:35

should oh wait, this is a four. Okay, this is a multi Porter.

1:44:38

Okay, here we go. I think I got it here. Date all these are

1:44:42

10 1000s ask Dave seem to suggest that we don't require

1:44:44

splits to add up to a 100 because it's easy to make

1:44:47

mistakes and produce a different total amount. Although I agree

1:44:51

with this requirement shouldn't exist. I don't find this

1:44:54

rationale convincing. Validation can be performed on the host

1:44:57

side is that a mentioned and the player side have a much better

1:45:01

reason in my mind is the same as why companies don't limit the

1:45:05

number of shares to a 100. It would limit the maximum number

1:45:10

of shareholders and the fractions they can own. Okay for

1:45:14

us, and due to precision issues, we should always prefer integers

1:45:17

to decimal numbers in financial software. That's why stripe API

1:45:20

uses cents instead of dollars. For example, finally, as a math

1:45:25

teacher, oh, W Dawson math teacher. I feel Yeah, and this

1:45:28

makes me terrified for him to listen to the show. Finally, as

1:45:31

math teacher I feel the most intuitive way of explaining

1:45:34

splits to newcomers is by thinking of them as ratios, the

1:45:38

concept familiar to most as it is found in many recipes. A eg

1:45:43

if Alice's Bob's and Charlie splits are four, two and three

1:45:46

respectively. They will share the incoming SATs in the ratios

1:45:50

of four to four to two to three. That is the way that a math

1:45:57

teacher would explain it. You're right. And just that's more

1:46:03

confusing to me than percentages. man

1:46:10

All right. Let me let me save you I'm gonna save you okay.

1:46:12

Yeah. Todd Cochran boosts 50,000 in my wallet on found with a

1:46:17

debit card. So simple. Good podcasting. Oh.

1:46:22

A bit. You almost fell off the cliff. Okay, I had to save you.

1:46:26

Well, it's almost like if a split was traveling on a train

1:46:28

at 17 cents per minute. And the ratios to distress. Thank you, Nathan. Yeah, good

1:46:35

line. And thank you, Debbie. Does I appreciate that. Yeah, I

1:46:39

don't know. It's just confused. Tone wrecker. 22 to 22 through

1:46:43

BOD verse he says, while it reloaded slinging Sass with

1:46:46

abandoned a boosting haiku. I love swinging SATs. Thank you.

1:46:51

That was a haiku did you get Yes, of course. I got the Haiku. Haiku.

1:46:56

That's, that's our first booster coup.

1:47:00

This dequeue Bucha cool. I like it. Borlaug. 25,000 SATs through

1:47:06

the pod verse he says I can't thank you enough for all the

1:47:08

work that you've you're doing for this project. This is the only board meeting I look forward to each week me but

1:47:13

ditto Yeah, yeah, that's where I ended on the on the boost and

1:47:18

where's comic strip blogger? Bloggers right here. Oh, you already did him. Okay. No, no,

1:47:24

no, I didn't do I did the I did his his new one but not the not

1:47:28

the regular the regular Okay. Comic Strip blogger 30 3015. Dear David, Adam, the AI dot

1:47:35

cooking podcast present obedience is in acknowledgment

1:47:40

to your safeguarding of free speech. At don't even know what

1:47:44

this word is. And now you're using words that now you know

1:47:47

more English than I do. The AI cooking podcast, President OBC

1:47:54

insists in acknowledgment to your safeguarding your free

1:47:56

speech, offering our fealty in the form of the part on the back

1:48:00

sets we implore you to keep abreast of the singularity by

1:48:05

downloading our fortnightly show the constant colloquy upon the

1:48:09

state of human hood. Podcasting is the medium of the people

1:48:13

congenially Yours, Gregory Forman yo CSV

1:48:18

Thank you. Thank you comics for blogger I tried to

1:48:21

do like a The Twilight Zone got was that was that was that

1:48:26

coming through a little bit? It would need a little more. Comic Strip blogger just a comic

1:48:34

stripper or a blogger now in AI welcome li D to the just came in

1:48:44

5000 from anonymous and Bitcoin boost your favorite podcasters

1:48:47

and pod verse plus Alby hashtag Foss and Dred Scott who just

1:48:53

left the chat room live boosting for boost boost Can I get a 100%

1:48:57

horn please with 222,222 SAS

1:49:07

we got it all 20 is Blaze only Impala no one

1:49:12

understands exactly how Dred Scott does it but he does it

1:49:16

and will poor guy he said they may posted with his like Cisco

1:49:22

switch meltdown of epic proportions like it's

1:49:26

his job. Yeah. Oh boy.

1:49:28

Yeah, we know it was a bad one. It was a bad one. Yeah.

1:49:31

Thank you very much boosters we got some monthlies.

1:49:34

We do we have Joseph maraca $5 Jeremy new $5 Cameron Rose $25

1:49:40

Lauren ball $24.20 Basil Phillips $25 pod verse LLC. $50

1:49:48

Christopher Hora Baraka $10 In Mitch downy Tinder.

1:49:52

Thank you all very much the value for value if you'd like to

1:49:54

learn more about that concept value for number four value dot

1:49:58

info. This is The whole project is value for value just heard

1:50:02

where our money goes, what we do with it, what we do with your

1:50:04

money to make the project run, and how it benefits everybody.

1:50:09

If you'd like to learn more, if you'd like to actually support

1:50:12

us go to podcast index.org down at the bottom is a big red

1:50:15

donate button you can use that to send us Fiat fun coupons.

1:50:21

Also, we have a on chain, Bitcoin spot there and note we

1:50:28

have nothing came in although people wanted it so badly. Hey,

1:50:32

man, you should ever on chain Bitcoin, we need to scan a QR

1:50:34

code to send you Bitcoin man pretty much knew.

1:50:37

So the only time people ever use it is to make sure that it gives

1:50:41

you that it works. Scott Trump's got basically we'll test it to make sure it's

1:50:45

being used. But of course, you can get any of the modern apps

1:50:49

at new podcast apps.com and use that to boost us. And of course,

1:50:53

you want to see that it has value for value. But use any of

1:50:56

them really, there's so many different. It's also personal,

1:51:00

so many different apps. But that is the preferred way. Of course,

1:51:03

you can always do it through PayPal, thank you very much for supporting podcasting 2.0, the podcast, which is really the

1:51:08

gateway into the whole project. And now let's talk about ROI.

1:51:13

And, yeah, so, I mean, I can't,

1:51:19

he lived he literally came in almost on time. He said six

1:51:23

months. And it's just been seven or seven and a half months, but

1:51:27

almost two that he said it and here he is with the what is it

1:51:31

the breeze SDK. SDK. And I'm hoping to have more He's He's helping me and Alex to

1:51:41

get up and running with it so that we can mess around with it.

1:51:45

Hoping to get it to get my hands dirty with it. The one things I

1:51:50

say initially I don't I've read it. I've looked at the at the

1:51:56

sort of structure the way everything's laid out. If I

1:52:01

understand it correctly, it's extremely easy. Rust is a first

1:52:06

class citizen which alike? Can you explain what it is?

1:52:11

It looks like exactly what we thought it would be, which is a

1:52:15

green light, the green light service on the back end, and

1:52:20

breeze providing the liquidity and everything on the front end.

1:52:26

And the SDK looks like a way a set of libraries to interface

1:52:32

your app with that service. And so you basically just, you

1:52:37

initialize it with a with a key and call and basically start

1:52:45

start it start the what is what is I guess? I don't know if

1:52:48

there's a real node or virtual node? I'm not sure. Essentially,

1:52:52

then you just you get back what looks like a handle that you can

1:52:56

then just do things with. And you still haven't told us what it is.

1:53:00

I mean, it's an SDK. I know but what software development kit

1:53:04

No, I understand but I know I just want to hear is it like a

1:53:09

wallet? No, yeah, well, he says that it's not a wallet, but it looks

1:53:17

like you I mean, you you own the key the for it looks like the

1:53:22

first thing you do. When I was looking at it earlier, the first

1:53:25

thing you do is initialize your your kind of using these terms

1:53:32

backup. Okay, there's a lightning node let's just call

1:53:36

I'm gonna call it a virtual lightning node that you can use

1:53:40

to send and receive lightning payments.

1:53:45

I think that's fair as fair. As fair to me. Roy has probably

1:53:51

been like no y'all are idiots. Well, I mean, what what does it replace? It replaces centralized

1:54:00

custody wallets? Yes, it would have replaced something like ln PE L B. It

1:54:08

will replace the the the necessity to keep your wallet to

1:54:13

call and you're not calling you're not custodian you're not

1:54:17

you're in your wallet is not custodial. You own it the the

1:54:21

infrastructure that your wallet resides on and that the

1:54:25

liquidity travels through that is that that is owned by

1:54:28

somebody that service right the liquidity that so it basically is taken

1:54:32

away. Okay, for me, it would be great because I know that

1:54:36

anything that comes in if I had that as my I could replace my

1:54:41

Umbro wallet that I used to receive booster grams with this.

1:54:46

And the benefit is it would always work theoretically. And

1:54:53

but no one can can just say oh curry that's it. We're done

1:54:57

because I own the keys to it and I can I also move it somewhere

1:55:01

else if I want, because I have the keys, right you have the keys, and yeah, it's your it's your keys,

1:55:07

your coin. So you can, you can use their infrastructure without

1:55:13

risking having anything ever taken away from you other than

1:55:18

the service itself. And then if that happens, you just move

1:55:20

into, so you move it to your umbrella, right.

1:55:23

And because it's an SDK, you can put it into your mobile app, as

1:55:29

a developer, and you can even send but also receive Bitcoin on

1:55:35

your mobile app. Because without necessarily having your mobile

1:55:41

app open in the foreground, all that stuff,

1:55:44

I think of, I kind of think of it like running, running your

1:55:49

stuff on AWS, and all of your stuff is encrypted, and only you

1:55:55

have the keys. And if some, if one day, AWS decides to kick you

1:55:59

off their service, well, then that's fine. You just go over

1:56:02

here and write all your stuff with and take all your stuff.

1:56:04

And it's, they didn't take your stuff away. They just said, you

1:56:08

know, we're not going to run it. But you can also if I wanted to have a vape service, I could have that that

1:56:14

SDK built into the software of my vape. And every single time I

1:56:17

hit the vape, he could send a payment. Do this yes,

1:56:21

this is the stuff I think of that. That's how I think at

1:56:25

night. Wow. Wouldn't it be cool if we could vape as a service?

1:56:28

Mm hmm. Well, we've already got the feed your sheep thinks. This makes a

1:56:33

lot of a lot. I didn't see feed your sheep on loan Roy's

1:56:37

article. And in his idea starter section, like and a little bit,

1:56:41

I have the article in the show notes. It's, it's really cool.

1:56:46

We clearly need we

1:56:48

need ROI. We need ROI to talk to us ROI come talk to us as soon

1:56:55

as possible, because this is a game changer now is all because

1:56:58

I saw you were looking at it as all work as implicit functioning

1:57:02

now, is it a startup, a test project, a demo project. And I was going to

1:57:08

get around and play with it. And I went in I couldn't find the

1:57:13

packages were not in the repos like public repos for the for,

1:57:18

for anything. And he said for now that you have to build it

1:57:21

off the off the GitHub source, so that's fine. But then he's

1:57:26

he's going to do what he needs to do to give me and Alex access

1:57:31

to the green light. That is a two parter, it looks like if I

1:57:35

understand it correctly, as a two parter, you have the breeze SDK code itself. But then you need a green light library to

1:57:42

put with it. But the green light code is not open source yet it's

1:57:45

going to be, but they haven't released it yet. So they're the

1:57:49

so he needs to give us access to the green light code. So that we

1:57:54

can actually build the SDK. So he's gonna, he's, he's gonna

1:57:59

give us access to that code, then I'll build it. I'll make

1:58:02

some test projects with it. And I'll be able to speak more

1:58:05

intelligently about it. Once that happens. It looks cool,

1:58:09

though. Very cool. I'm excited about it. I'm very excited. I mean, something we've

1:58:13

been needing for a long time in this space, in lots of space,

1:58:18

and we can be in anything. I mean, that's what I like about

1:58:20

the SDK, put into a vending machine, put it into whatever

1:58:23

wherever you want it. That's that's a cool system.

1:58:26

One thing I like about the lightning ecosystem is the in

1:58:28

the way that is evolving, is that in I think, maybe the

1:58:32

lightning, the LDK thing was the first person, the first group to

1:58:37

kind of embrace this idea. Is that is you're, you're you're

1:58:40

taking, you're taking a node, and then you're splitting it

1:58:44

into its component parts. And you're saying, okay, these are

1:58:46

all the different things that when brought together

1:58:48

constituent constitute what a node is, but you blow them

1:58:52

apart, and you can say, Okay, I'll do this part over here,

1:58:55

this part over here, I'm going to replace this with a with a

1:58:57

different database, I'm going to use this as an LSP. It's like

1:59:02

you, you can mix and match these component parts. And what you

1:59:04

end up with is still a functional node, right? But it's

1:59:08

just kind of like, it's like deconstructed, and you're

1:59:11

running it in different ways. And I think they're taking I

1:59:13

think what breezes done is they're taking advantage of this

1:59:16

concept of deconstructed node. And they're putting in there,

1:59:21

they're using that as a service provider model, right? So you

1:59:26

still get all the benefits of running your own node? Well,

1:59:30

technically, not all because you, you know, you could be, you

1:59:33

know, you could be kicked off or whatever. I mean, if they don't

1:59:36

want to host you, but you're getting most of the benefits of

1:59:40

running your own node, the privacy the, excuse me, the key

1:59:42

key management. Yeah. The security of funds, you know, the

1:59:47

benefit of having an always on up

1:59:50

like, like an email service provider versus hosting your own

1:59:53

email. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. You mean

1:59:57

100%? No, I mean, And then unconditional

2:00:01

unconditionally. All the way. Right on. Exhausted. Oh my

2:00:07

brother is that I gotta get you out of here with two hours on

2:00:10

the nose two hours on the nose. No. Well, hoping you feel even

2:00:15

better hoping the beef milk makes the beef milkshakes do

2:00:20

their business. I get I get I always feel better after the show. I get an

2:00:24

adrenaline pump during the show. All right, thank you very much chat room. Thanks, everyone who

2:00:28

was hanging out with us. Let Dave Brother Love you. We'll

2:00:30

talk to her next week. All right, man. See, okay.

2:00:34

Podcasting. 2.0 the board meeting on the books. We'll be

2:00:37

back in seven days from now to tell you all that's going on

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