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Adam Curry: podcasting 2.0 February 23 2024 Episode 168

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Hello, everybody. Hello everybody in the boardroom

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Welcome to the official board meeting of podcasting point oh,

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everything happening at podcasting index.org That new

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fancy website podcasting two.org Of course, all the things

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happening with a namespace we have a special guest today. One

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of the members of the board and everything happening in podcasts

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index dot social. This is the boardroom that runs its own LLM

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on local machines. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the

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Texas Hill Country and an Alabama the man who is looking

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to survive against the ESPYs AI say hello to my friend on the

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other end. Mr. Dave Joe. Dave Jones: Nobody survives against CSB on a did I mean,

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we'll just make a mockery of view with his cartoons

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Adam Curry: did I see him typing a prompt and it created an RSS

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feed with an enclosure is that what is that what I saw? Yeah.

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Dave Jones: Yeah. And then somebody else said, Hey, try this. And he's like, No, you do it. Okay, I don't want to.

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Adam Curry: Oh, that already sounds super suspicious.

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Dave Jones: I've been playing with the NVIDIA chat with RTX

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tool. Adam Curry: Do you? Do you have the card that you need for that?

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Yeah, you have an NVIDIA card. Mm hmm.

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Dave Jones: Get a 3050 It's not a powerful card, but you don't

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need much you'll all you need is is eight, you need a 3000 series

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card. And you need which 3050 is like $200 so you can get like

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you know a 3000 series RTS card minimum and you need a minimum

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eight gigs of RAM on board cards. So that's what this has.

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So you can run it nuts. I mean, it's not fast, but it's me but

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it's doable. But the cool like the interesting thing is like

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use it loads up all the stuff and it's got a pretty beefy

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model it's like 30 Gig oh that's quite large. Yeah, it's pretty

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big it's the Miss Mistral model Yeah. And it was I don't know

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God who knows with all these local these LLM 's they have

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like a genealogy tree that's hard to trace now but but it's

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got it's got a big model and then you put this guy in a

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folder and you drop in PDFs txt files or Word documents into

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this folder and then have it regenerate regenerate this ra G

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which is like it takes the model and then it applies the model to

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your local set of material. So then you're you're basically

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it's like an adjunct to training for the for the model itself. So

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it only it really only will tell you stuff about this about what

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you train it with. Do Adam Curry: you Do you remember back in the day when we were

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talking like a 3050 you would automatically think that means a

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carburetor for your motorcycle and a big model a big models

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that you were dating a Kardashian I mean, what has

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happened to our what has happened to our conversation?

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Man? My Dave Jones: truck has an auto line 1100 Fulbrighter Exactly,

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exactly. Adam Curry: Let me take a look at when I'm so I have the I have

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the LLM are running on the Start OS and let me see what models I

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have. I have Yeah, the biggest one I have is 7.5 gigs. That's

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the new ma llama two and the Metho max which is five so yeah,

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that's a that is a beefy model I don't have something that big.

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Dave Jones: Oh it's like 32 Gig download huge wow it's huge but

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it's a drop the podcast namespace into it back into it

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as the only training material and edited

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Adam Curry: do you have to say learn this is that we have to do

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we just say hey, suck this in. What is the what prompt do you

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give when you do that? Dave Jones: Yeah, you hit the suck this in button.

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Adam Curry: Really? There's I'm not even gonna question I'm sure

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there is. Dave Jones: You hit the stop button and it sucks it in and it

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regenerates everything it takes depending on how much material

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you give it. It can take a long time but like with just that

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document it took I don't know a minute and it Adam Curry: keeps that and it stores that forever.

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Dave Jones: Yeah, I mean, it's it trains it retrains the it

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retrains the wow. This is the part I don't understand because

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there's this thing called an RA G so it's like

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Adam Curry: a it's a reg basically. What you get it's a

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reg it Dave Jones: creates the reg of the model and then and then you

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and then you wipe stuff with it. But you get but so I asked it

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something last data said well, I told it as a generate a podcast

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and 2.0 chapters file with chapters at these times at these

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time markers with these titles. Just basically gave it a basic

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task that it should know how to do off them off the namespace

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and, and if the first the chapters file came out good. The

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next thing I asked it to do was created an RSS feed item tag

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with an mp3 enclosure and, and HLS stream as the alternate

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enclosure. And it complete it partially filled. fell down. He

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gave what he gave me as a live item, not an item. Okay.

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Adam Curry: Impressive is still impressive. No, it

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Dave Jones: was good. It was good. But it started making up attributes like it was a hallucination is attribute

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attribute hallucination. And so that it was making it for the

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for the enclosure tag it gave it like a a bit rate attribute and

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a height attribute and all these weird things,

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Adam Curry: correct it or you just say you suck. I'm what do

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you do at that point? Dave Jones: But yeah, I did say you suck. I said that a couple

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times. But then also, you could also pull in just I think he

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could just pull in more spec. They could just keep pulling in,

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you know, like, if, because I didn't pull in the RSS 2.0. spec

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itself. I didn't pull in the iTunes namespace like, I think

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you could just keep piling material in here to give it more

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to work with. And it would give you better answers. But

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Adam Curry: oh, man, that's great. So pretty soon just have

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that thing show up to the podcast. Dave Jones: Yeah, that would be good. And then and you wouldn't

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even need me. We wouldn't need we can just AI generate the

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guest. Yeah. Adam Curry: That's pretty cool, though.

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Dave Jones: It's I mean, it's fun. It's so

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Adam Curry: fun is the key word. I mean, would you actually put

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something like that under production for any action? Can

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you see yourself creating a cron job to do something like that?

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Dave Jones: And no, like, I know, I guess, let me talk about

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AI for just a second. Because I've been I've got some thoughts on this. I haven't really, I guess, I don't know, I haven't

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really spent time trying to figure out my thoughts on it in

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general. And I guess, like the AI tool, I guess I've just got a

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couple of thoughts after listening to especially

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listening to Todd. Adam Curry: Todd. I know, I know. Like, oh, it's so great. I

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don't have to do it. I don't have to show up. I just throw it

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on there. But if we're looking to add the believer he usable

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believers definitely as a follower of the Chad G pts.

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Dave Jones: And I cannot tell I'm not gonna take that away from him. I mean, clearly, there's some. I think what we

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have to, here's my, here's where I think I stand right now is if

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so, I guess number one, two, these AI tools being built for

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that are being built for stuff like podcasting, they work, you

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can see that they will work well, when they're targeted for

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specific tasks, or processes. Yes, yeah. Where in this, I

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think this is key, where there's a human approval step at the end

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of that pipeline. Yes, which is, which itself is not too time

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consuming. So you could say something like, give me a bunch

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of chapter, you know, give me chapters for this. Here's the

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transcript, give me a bunch of chapters for this with markers

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at this, these few key points, and just try to generate some

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titles. And then it gives you that thing, and then you can

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just quickly scan the title, see if they make sense for you.

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Maybe hit a couple of previews and see if they make sense. Like

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if it if it can do some of the grunt work, and then give you a

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thing to quickly reviewed and make sure for you to sign off on

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to me that that's the best use case for the of this.

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Adam Curry: I mean, I've used it. I use my old models that I

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said, and I'm going to blow my cover on this one, but Mark void

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zero, you know, he started his own IT company. And his number

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one client is no agenda. That's his first client. Yeah, so we

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want we wanted to help them out. Yeah, exactly. And so he said,

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Would you mind writing me a recommendation? blow my cover

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here. So I went into my, into my, my starred nine. And I gave

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it you know, like, I don't know, maybe two or three sentences.

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And it pooped out a very decent review. It was flowery. So you

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know, I cut out some of the flowery nonsense and send it to

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him. He's like, wow, this is so great. And I didn't have the

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heart to tell him that. An LM had done it. But for that, I was

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like, Yeah, that's actually you know, just looking at it. It's

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very, I'd say reasonably close to what I would have done for a

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glowing review. It was not bad at all.

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Dave Jones: It's really hard to contain to keep in your mind

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that this is Is not that when the AI is pre is when the when

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the model is giving you results, the language model. I'm gonna

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I'm trying to be specific say language model not not AI,

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because it's this is, this is different. So when it's hard to

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remember this, and when you're using it, but I think it is

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actually critical to remember is the LLM is not it doesn't know

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anything. No, in the sense that we mean that we all understand

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what that term is. And these language models don't know any,

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all they know is, is likelihood of a word to come after another

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word in a particular context. They're just regurgitating

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language patterns. Yeah, it's

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Adam Curry: a parlor trick. Your brain goes, Wow, it's talking to

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me. Right? Dave Jones: And you may come out with something very useful.

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Adam Curry: You may not, but you may not. Dave Jones: When I say when I say, give me an item, an RSS

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podcast item, with an HLS ID alternate enclosure in it, you

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immediately see a thing in your head, because you know what

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those words mean? This thing only knows the language models

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only know, the text that it seen before and the arrangement of in

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the order of the words in the symbols that those texts appear.

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And so it's not actually able to give you what you want, in the

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sense that it knows what you want. No, it's just

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Adam Curry: like, in my in my example. It's it's learned

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hundreds 1000s I don't know 10 1000s of glowing reviews

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probably sucked it in from Yelp. And, and it knows that Yeah,

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okay. Well, it's this kind of business. Here's the next word.

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Here's the next word. Yeah. I mean, that's that, I can see

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that. And a professional writer sees that. I mean, Tina helps

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people out with resumes all the time. And they'll say, Okay,

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well, I did a start and she'll get the document just to chat

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GPD she'll know right away you can do to me? Yeah, of course.

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Of course you can see it. And I think eventually, with, you

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know, these co pilots and all this coding stuff, I think

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people will also I mean, again, it's like, Okay, God created the

12:22

world in six days. And the seventh day, he had to take a

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break, because it took effort and energy. That's the part that

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cannot be missing from the creative process, the energy and

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the effort. And the there's something soulful and spiritual

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that goes into creating things. So to regurgitate and create

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things that have existed before. And, you know, I mean, I see

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this with a no agenda Art Generator, go look at a no

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agenda, art generator.com artists have been creating

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artwork for the no agenda show for 12 over a decade, there's

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35,000 images in there. And ever since Dolly, and stable

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diffusion and all these other different programs, many more

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people are uploading stuff that is soulless. I'm looking at you

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comments from Blogger, it's soulless. I mean, it's soulless.

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And it doesn't, it rarely gets picked, sometimes someone has

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figured out how to use it and how to, I guess go through

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several iterations and inject actual humor, which is very hard

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to do. I haven't seen ai do humor very well, or love or

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passion or any of this, it just does. So then and when you look

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at it on mass, and you see me you can see the the changeover

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in the work that's submitted, and most of it that was

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beautifully rendered. But no, it's just it's not funny. It's

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not there's no it has no soul. That's it. The

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Dave Jones: The other thing I thought of was AI tools. Like

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the stuff that's being built right now with these sort of

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like third party startups that are coming up. Those are all

14:05

those startups those I'm sorry, but those guys are toast the

14:10

podcast hosting companies Yeah, I think Buzzsprout was the first

14:13

one to do it with there was a co co host or something like that.

14:18

And then transistors doing it, but blueberry, they're all in

14:23

rss.com They're all going to start doing this I mean, they're

14:26

all just because basically all these third party tools now to

14:30

do AI stuffs for to support podcasters the hosting companies

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themselves are just gonna pull that the debt scalability in

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Adam Curry: house yeah, and those those little companies

14:38

will all go broke because I mean, right now this is the

14:41

investment climate you know, the climate This is where all the

14:43

investment money's going into. Oh,

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Dave Jones: in video, man, I mean, they're just printing

14:49

money right now is ridiculous. I would not be. I'm going to, I

14:56

gotta I gotta prediction. I would not be surprised if in the

14:59

end next three years in video buys entail. Oh, that's very

15:04

Adam Curry: possible. That's possible. It will also be the

15:08

best short of our lifetime. Once everyone figures out what

15:11

bullcrap this all really is. Whenever they pivot to quantum

15:16

computing, whatever comes next comes next. I mean, remember it

15:19

was machine learning just a year ago. Yeah, it's all it's all

15:23

branding. It's all brand new stuff anyway. It's not gonna

15:28

save podcasting. Yeah, that's in podcasting doesn't need saving.

15:34

No, no. But I've been, I've been doing my, my show prep. And I

15:39

have a question, why is there this? And maybe it's just the

15:42

podcast industrial complex, which I loved is one of the most

15:48

singularly unhelpful terms in my vocabulary. This growing your

15:54

podcast. You know, I'm a little sick of the term. Because the

16:00

whole world seems to be about growing your podcast. And you

16:05

have to have X amount of downloads. And I like to people

16:09

grow their tennis game or their golf game, or just have fun

16:13

playing golf. And playing tennis. Not everybody has to be

16:18

a pro. Is that I mean, am I missing something here that,

16:23

that you get into podcasting, it has to be a profession?

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Dave Jones: It's, it's the math of CPMs is all about, it's about

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it's all about the advertising. How Adam Curry: about how about serving a community? I

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Dave Jones: had this issue with that dude, that was around for a

16:42

while he bailed out of podcasting. But he was making

16:45

waves all the time about how Spotify was the future of

16:50

podcasting. I forget that dude's name we used to work.

16:55

Adam Curry: Where do you come from? Dave Jones: He was like, he's like a podcast consultant. Man,

16:59

I cannot remember his name. But he was a podcast consultant. And

17:02

he was like, writing these articles and arguing with people

17:05

about how part of Spotify was, was the way that all creators

17:09

and all podcasters in the future, were going to be able to

17:12

make the most money. Yeah, and all of his arguments were based

17:15

on on advertising math, if you have this many. So I mean, he's

17:22

basically a formula like if you have the I mean, Dolby das would

17:25

love this. It's like a formula of, you know, math formula of,

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if you put this if you have this many listeners and this much

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growth rate, and you get this CPM and this much reach and

17:38

this, this level of engagement, and bla bla bla bla bla and you

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put it all into this formula, you're rich, Adam Curry: you got a plastic egg with a ring inside.

17:47

Dave Jones: And I was like, I was like, Well, yeah, but that

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does any. Anybody stopped to ask the listeners what? Like if

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they're willing to participate in this formula? Because I'm not

17:56

sure that it's as easy as all that. Because if we all did

17:59

that, this formula breaks down I mean, this

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Adam Curry: Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. Well, it's this the same type of

18:05

people who are telling you, you know, what you should do what

18:08

your what your you know, your how you do a podcast and you got

18:13

to choose your topic. I got a I got a one idea. Start a music

18:18

podcast. This is an open field. Don't don't start a podcast

18:24

about talking something, whatever the topic is. There's

18:28

already one there. Start a music podcast.

18:31

Dave Jones: I've gotten an even better, maybe not better idea.

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I've got another idea. Start an audio book.

18:37

Adam Curry: There you go. Dave Jones: I mean, just start doing audio book podcasts and

18:42

put put value for value tags in it. I mean, he talks about

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Greenfield like we, every every third week, excuse me two out of

18:52

every three weeks that I listened to America this week

18:55

podcast, the short story that they talk about is not available

18:59

anywhere unknown in audio infuriating. I mean, you listen

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to that show, find out what audio book there are, excuse me,

19:06

what what short story they're talking about. It'll take you an

19:10

hour, an hour and a half to record it. Throw a value tag in

19:15

there and launch it out there and be and done boom, you're the

19:20

only game in town you that's that's the only Ste and most of

19:23

these are all very old public domain stories. They're all

19:27

usually like, like 19th century Russian literature. They're just

19:35

old stuff. But it's like you, you're the only one that at that

19:39

point. You're the only available source of this story in audio

19:43

and you have a value tag where you can go to

19:46

Adam Curry: what's the what's the the open source, public

19:53

domain website the printing press guy, the printing the

19:58

printing press guy What's the Gutenberg Gutenberg? I think

20:02

it's Project Gutenberg Thank you. You can go to Project

20:05

Gutenberg you can find all kinds of books classics, even that are

20:10

public domain and start reading and recording. Yeah, I actually

20:14

started I started it with Tom Swift. Which I at the time I was

20:18

blown away to the Tom Swift books. You have read those Tom

20:21

Swift books, and never have no you know of them Tom Swift and

20:24

electric electric grandmother and all that stuff is flying

20:27

machine. Dave Jones: One Tom Swift, kind of like Hardy Boys. But yeah, a

20:31

pretty Hardy Adam Curry: Boys. Yeah, he was an inventor. And you know, he

20:34

had a flying machine. And then he has submarine and Victor

20:38

Appleton, which is not even that's a pen name that several

20:41

authors used. Dave Jones: And I like Mark, like Mark Bognor again, Mark.

20:46

Exactly. Adam Curry: And I actually started reading a couple of

20:49

those for an audio book project. A while back now of course, I

20:53

never completed it. But that's because other things got in the

20:56

way. But I was like, this is kind of fun to read all kinds of

20:59

stuff like that. I was. I was invited to listen to this crew.

21:05

I was invited to something called the V for V roundtable. I

21:09

heard about it was it's a podcast, and it was so new. I

21:14

didn't realize it was episode number one. And they had asked

21:17

me to be a guest and it was Jimmy V. Sir Lee Bray. And Sir

21:23

TJ the wrathful. And it was actually it was really it was

21:27

quite it was quite adorable. Until they got to the part where

21:31

they're like, Yeah, we want to do a V for V awards. I'm like

21:34

no, no stop now just stop and they said lady Well, we really

21:39

just wanted an excuse to hang out or they find do a meet up.

21:44

Awards are so Fiat to me these days is like it's the antithesis

21:48

of of podcasting. It's really the opposite

21:52

Dave Jones: of the for V for just they wanted to do awards

21:55

for just music just for anything. Adam Curry: I think for music. Yeah, I think from us, okay.

21:59

Dave Jones: That's like how can you do that funny though? I

22:03

would watch it I would watch the music course.

22:06

Adam Curry: What a train wreck that would be. Dave Jones: No I would that's why

22:12

Adam Curry: these days award shows are so wrong because it's

22:15

a business model. You charge people to submit. And I was

22:19

never used to be that way used to be. You know your peers. And

22:23

who can be appear in this bit. It's impossible. All of this is

22:27

an arachnid and an arachnid NISM. What is it

22:30

Dave Jones: an anachronism that I think you're talking about

22:33

spiders. I think that's what yeah, that yes, arachnophobia.

22:36

Adam Curry: That's my problem. But an arachnid. I can't say the

22:38

word no. Dave Jones: anachronism, anachronism.

22:41

Adam Curry: And anachronism. anachronism. Yes.

22:45

Dave Jones: Vestigial? Adam Curry: Yes, definitely. There you go. Perfect.

22:50

Dave Jones: Do we want to dare venture into this into the fees

22:56

discussion? Adam Curry: Why don't we bring our guests in because he'll be

23:00

he'll be more fun to talk about. He's been waiting patiently for

23:04

about 20 minutes here. He is no stranger to the boardroom. And

23:11

he has been in the podcasting 2.0 projects from very early

23:16

days. And he is as far as I know, the first guest ever who

23:21

sent his own questions. Which I thought was just great. He's

23:29

like, hey, we you're going to be on the pocket? Yeah, here's some

23:34

I have some that was it. Here's some talking points. I thought

23:36

we could talk about tomorrow. Yes, perfect. We would like to

23:40

welcome back to the boardroom. A fan favorite ladies and

23:43

gentlemen all the way from France. Benjamin Bellamy. Those

23:47

rollerball know that Bonjour to you, buddy. How are you? We're

23:53

good. We're good. And we appreciate you coming on. We

23:56

know that it's about eight o'clock at night. I guess now in

24:00

it Benjamin Bellamy: is eight o'clock sharp. Adam Curry: I have an important question. Right off the top that

24:06

you are you in Paris? I forget if you're in Paris. I am in

24:10

Paris. Yes. So what's up with the farmers? How's that gone?

24:15

Did they really are they really pouring a cow poop into

24:18

government buildings because I love that idea. Yeah,

24:21

Benjamin Bellamy: but no in Paris there weren't allowed to

24:23

get into Paris. So we haven't seen them. And actually, it

24:29

didn't last very long. So have their back to their farms now.

24:33

Adam Curry: Yeah. But is that resolved? Are they happy now?

24:35

Because they seem pretty angry. Benjamin Bellamy: Is this a political podcast? No,

24:43

Adam Curry: no. I like farmers. I'm just purely interested in

24:46

because you're seeing these protests around the world. And

24:51

no one in America ever talks about it and our farmers. I

24:53

don't know what they're doing. They're not pouring cow manure

24:56

in anywhere. And you see it all all over Europe. I'm just

25:00

Curious, is that is that fixed? Are they happy? I mean, do you

25:03

guys have food to eat? Benjamin Bellamy: No, nothing is fixed, but they got home because

25:11

the only thing that they managed to to get is to, to be allowed

25:21

to use pesticides and everything and to stop all the ecological

25:27

loads. Adam Curry: So the climate change stuff. Yeah.

25:32

Benjamin Bellamy: So like the climate. Yeah. So they say, good

25:39

enough, but they'll probably be bad, like next year or within

25:43

six months, but I'm just impressed. Adam Curry: I'm impressed with the French farmer that impressed

25:47

with the Dutch farmers and the Germans. I'm just impressed with

25:49

it. Because we don't have anything like that. That

25:52

Dave Jones: happens now. We did we put on we don't protest. We

25:55

Adam Curry: put on pink pussy hats and walk around. Yeah,

25:58

that's Benjamin Bellamy: all cool. You probably have to be really

26:02

careful when you're watching the news, because it's like, a huge

26:06

magnifier. Adam Curry: No, no, you're kidding. No way, Benjamin. You

26:14

mean the news is full Benjamin Bellamy: of crap. It isn't. But like the country

26:21

weren't just like a crap and the fire and it was very localized.

26:28

Adam Curry: Yeah. Gotcha. crap and fire crap and fire. Great

26:31

show title. Yes. Dave Jones: Right off the bat.

26:36

Adam Curry: Brother, we are so happy that you that you're back

26:39

in the boardroom? Because I mean, you wanted to give us an

26:42

update on Casta pod because it's been How long has it been? It's

26:44

been over a year and a half. Maybe since we last had you on?

26:49

Benjamin Bellamy: I think it's way more it's I think it's two

26:51

years. Yeah, I was here on episode 29.

26:55

Adam Curry: Wow. Yeah. So well. So

26:57

Dave Jones: that's very nervous about, tell us about Cassiopeia.

27:00

But I also want to tell I want you to explain the cast pod

27:03

index as well. Benjamin Bellamy: Oh, sure. Well, castor pod, as you know,

27:10

is our open source hosting platform, which we've been

27:14

developing for three years now. We started exactly when you guys

27:19

started podcasting. 2.0. So, yeah, that's over three years

27:24

now. And we've moving forward, we have a huge roadmap, and

27:31

many, many things coming this year. Think we have new new

27:41

tags, we just added the medium one with our contributors. We

27:51

have 51 contributors that are working on Casta bird now,

27:57

mainly for other translations, but also on some book

28:01

corrections and features. Now,

28:06

Adam Curry: just so not everybody knows we have cast a

28:08

pod.org, which is the Open Source Self, you can self host

28:12

it. And then I think you have cast a pod.com, which includes

28:15

hosting for a small fee. Is that still in place? Yeah,

28:19

Benjamin Bellamy: that's correct. We just like copied

28:22

what WordPress is doing. We right, we'd like to, we like to

28:26

think that we are the WordPress for our podcast. In a sense that

28:32

we use the same technology, which is PHP, MySQL. If you want

28:37

to self host on a very cheap shared hosting, you can unzip a

28:42

zip file, and then run the wizard, and you're ready to go

28:46

and podcasts. And we also have two websites the.org casper.org,

28:52

where you can download the whole server, and on kasturba.com

28:59

within like one minutes. You subscribe, you enter your credit

29:04

card, and you're ready to go. And you can use your own domain

29:09

name and like it's your home, your podcasts, right and you own

29:15

your data, your audience, everything belongs to you. And

29:19

Adam Curry: can you give us an idea of how many people are

29:21

using self hosted versus hosted? And I just have no you've been

29:25

around. You've been doing this for a while. So I'm just curious

29:27

how the how the uptake has been. Benjamin Bellamy: I cannot give you the exact numbers for a very

29:35

simple reason. We don't have any. Anything within Cassiopeia

29:42

that tells you when someone installs it, we don't know so

29:45

and they are quite a bunch of podcasts that are using customer

29:52

pod self hosted and that are not registered on the podcast index.

29:57

Oh, really. I've yet found some of them. And quite often,

30:01

usually, I'm aware of them when John Spurlock says, Oh, this is

30:08

something that's Cassiopeia podcasts, but she's trying to

30:12

use a p3. But since it's not in the podcast index, I cannot

30:18

process it. Ah, Adam Curry: is this is this on purpose is it just don't want to

30:24

be in the index, or it's not known to them.

30:28

Benjamin Bellamy: I think we can call that a bug. Basically, what

30:32

we should be doing is, when the wizard ends, the castor pod

30:38

installation system, we should add a button do you wish to

30:44

register to podcast index? And my guess is that most most

30:50

podcasts that are not in the podcast index, it's just because

30:54

they don't know what that exists. Okay, we

30:57

Dave Jones: probably got a real, I got a real easy way for you to

30:59

do that, then you can, you can just send positing the as you

31:04

send a pod pay we have, we have the our web sub hub also acts

31:10

acts as a pod ping generator. So you can call pub dot podcast

31:16

index.org Pub notify, and then just send the pod paying in his

31:20

No, there's no authentication keys required. If you just send

31:23

this in that as soon as somebody rolls in new, a new cast a pod

31:28

instance, then we'll pick the feed up and everybody else

31:30

should see it too. Yeah, Benjamin Bellamy: then we know that there are many, many ways

31:34

of doing that. It's just something that it we have a huge

31:40

pile of, of tasks are on our to do list. And that's something

31:45

that we should have done years ago, and we still haven't

31:49

Adam Curry: we know how this works. Benjamin, no worries. No

31:54

worries, Dave and I still have to go on vacation together. Not

31:57

this at the bottom of the stack. Dave Jones: We're very lucky what but yeah, exactly. Exactly.

32:04

What if so. So this is an interesting, I don't want to

32:09

derail you, but I just I'm trying to make a mental note to

32:11

come back to this because Mitch, Mitch from pod verse is also

32:15

trying to transition more into being a maintainer and building

32:20

up a community around pod verse that will contribute open source

32:24

code. And it sounds like Castor pod has is been pretty slick.

32:30

It's been successful to a degree with getting people to be tasked

32:34

with building a code contribution community.

32:39

Benjamin Bellamy: Yeah, but it's, we're not there yet. There

32:43

are still work to do. Am I encouraging anyone who wants to

32:46

get involved to to get on our GitLab server on the code that

32:52

casper.org And there could the number of issues we have on

33:00

GitLab is so long that we could use a hand so and just to answer

33:07

your questions without we forget about it. I think there are

33:11

between 305 100 podcasts using Castor pod right now to give you

33:17

an idea so that's quite a lot because like a year ago, there

33:24

were like a dozen or so so yeah, it's like I think we have like

33:31

plus 30% Every month but yeah, that could be we could have like

33:39

10 times this amount if you see the number of of blogs using

33:44

WordPress we're not on the same scale here. Even if you're

33:51

looking at podcast generator which was the the the open

33:58

source system that I've been I was using before we we developed

34:04

Castor pod they are more podcasts using podcast generator

34:09

now. So there's still a huge room for for growth. Are you

34:17

Adam Curry: still still funded? partially or entirely for the

34:21

for the project by government net? And yes Annelle net? Oh,

34:29

that's that NLnet is that now European? What like is that now

34:35

EU money and l net? Or is L net? Where did they get their funding

34:38

from? I forgot Benjamin Bellamy: Yeah. From from EU EEA. European Union.

34:42

Yeah. Yeah, partly still, too. So we are still partly funded by

34:49

NL net European Union. And that's just a small part of our

34:56

what it really costs in the end, of

34:59

Adam Curry: course. Of course, they should force all those all

35:02

those people at the EU to use cast the pod for their podcast.

35:06

Yeah, I don't think they do. I know they use all kinds of

35:09

stuff. And I follow a lot of EU podcast, but they're never on

35:13

cast a pod to my knowledge. Benjamin Bellamy: Yes, some are getting there. I think the one

35:21

of the problem that we have both Yasin and me is that we're, I

35:29

guess, not that bad developing stuff, but we're not that good

35:33

for setting them. Even if it's setting for free. So

35:43

Adam Curry: when government I find if you make it 10,000

35:46

euros, that's when they all want to have as you say, you want it

35:49

the wrong way with these government people. Yeah, they

35:52

don't like free, they can't be good. We need to get something

35:55

from Boeing. That cost a lot of money.

35:57

Dave Jones: I like the way you said that. We're we're not bad

36:00

at developing things. But we're not good at selling things. Yep,

36:05

pretty much that pretty much no, that that's most open source

36:08

Adam Curry: projects best. Right? That's right. Benjamin Bellamy: Let's we have pretty good feedbacks from the

36:15

whole community. We have a local radio networks that are using

36:20

Castor pod now. So we're getting there. Yeah. The future is very

36:29

interesting. I'm very excited about what this year will bring.

36:34

Dave Jones: How much am many of your, how many caster pod users

36:39

do you have a feel are French versus outside of France? Is

36:43

there? What does that look like?

36:48

Benjamin Bellamy: I think it reflects the number of podcasts

36:50

that they are like worldwide. Obviously, we have another maybe

37:02

5050 podcast French podcasts using gastropod. So that like

37:08

10%. But if you compare that to the number in the podcast

37:13

indexed, I looked this morning, they were 90,000 podcasts in

37:21

French. So I don't know if they're Canadians or French,

37:27

Swiss, or Belgium. But so that lets that know 107 compared to

37:36

like 2 million in English, right, and I guess like eight

37:42

800,000 in Spanish, and maybe 300,000 in Portuguese. So the

37:51

market, the podcasting market, for a French language is still

37:57

in the very, very early stages.

38:00

Adam Curry: i i We were talking about AI just a little bit ago.

38:03

And I have a theory about this. You know, one of the things that

38:06

all it comes is come around like three times now it's like, oh,

38:10

this company will now transcribe your podcast into five different

38:16

languages with natural sounding voices. And when I'm always

38:19

surprised by is that it's never the other way around. I don't

38:23

hear any. And this is what my question would be. Are there any

38:26

companies who are saying we'll take your French spoken podcast

38:30

and turn it into English? That will be part one of the

38:33

question. And part two is, are there actually any podcasts that

38:37

have been trans morphed into French from English that are

38:41

doing anything in France? I mean, is this just total

38:43

vaporware that no one's using it? Benjamin Bellamy: Not that I know of? And I don't know. And

38:52

the Yeah, the podcasting market is really, really different from

38:56

everything else that we know why. My guess is because it's a

39:04

hippie stuff from the beginning. Like the fact that

39:09

Adam Curry: like hippie stuff, all right, there's another show.

39:13

Benjamin Bellamy: The fact that it's still uses technology from

39:18

the 90s, where you can choose the hosting company, you can

39:24

choose the index, you can choose the app for playing the podcast,

39:29

make it really difficult for big corporations to make money out

39:33

of it. And so they tend not to be interested in it, I think.

39:38

And even if you look at the the dynamic or do insertion markets

39:48

for advertising, on podcasting, it's tiny, really, really small

39:53

compared to the radio industry. It's really small. It's the

39:57

beginning and eventually it's going to grow That's for sure.

40:01

So, some, some companies are interested in that. But it's so

40:06

difficult because it is distributed. And it's not like a

40:11

closed silo as it can be on YouTube.

40:15

Adam Curry: It's interesting because I was in Italy last

40:18

year, September. And I think it was, I think it was Spotify. But

40:25

something had happened. And all of a sudden, Italy was crazy

40:29

about podcasts. And they had never really picked it up

40:31

before. And I don't know if it was one certain. My my nephew

40:38

and nieces were like, oh, yeah, no, this this one guy, and he's

40:40

doing a podcast and this comedians doing a podcast, and

40:43

somehow it just caught fire. And all of a sudden the whole

40:47

country was all nuts about podcasting. It seems like, you

40:51

need to have that one spark. And then it takes off. And I don't

40:55

and I get I think it might have been Spotify that that that did

40:58

that. And they did something good. On me, what are the

41:03

podcasts? And so there's so few are there like, you know,

41:06

mainstream entertainers doing podcasts? You mean

41:09

Benjamin Bellamy: in France? Yeah. Basically, the whole

41:13

industry here is if it is. organized and by the radio

41:26

networks, right. I was looking at some numbers. In France 67%

41:37

of every audio consumption is done on the radio networks. And

41:43

only 10% is podcasts. Right. And in this 10 percents, three is

41:51

for indie podcast, and seven is for the radio podcasts. Gotcha.

41:57

So the radio industry is still very, very strong.

42:01

Dave Jones: But you trust those numbers, you trust those

42:03

numbers? Where that where's the measurement for that coming

42:06

from? Benjamin Bellamy: Even if you don't trust them? The difference

42:10

is so so big that okay, yeah, at some points. And yeah, you can

42:15

see that people are still listening. I think 60% of French

42:22

people are listening to the radio, like every day. So we

42:27

have a very strong radio culture here.

42:32

Dave Jones: It's funny to me how that how that works in different

42:35

in different in different cultures, like I had heard

42:39

somebody telling me as maybe a year ago that, like, Japan has a

42:45

really intense fax machine culture, if you go to Japan,

42:49

it's just they fax everything. This is I mean, still to today.

42:52

I mean, this is not some, this is not we're not talking about

42:55

two decades ago, like the right now they, it's just become part

42:59

of their culture. And it's like, almost to an identity level.

43:03

There's some things we we just you go across the border, and

43:07

it's like a whole different set of priorities people have about

43:12

how they consume different media, how they interact with

43:15

with with other people. That's pretty, that's pretty

43:20

interesting, because from the outside looking in, especially

43:23

looking at the index data, French podcast, seems podcasting

43:29

in France, to me from the outside seems to be very, like,

43:37

insular, I guess, more. And maybe that's not this. This is

43:43

maybe a negative connotation. What I mean is like, it seems

43:46

sort of like they like Radio France doesn't want their stuff.

43:52

distributed in this feels like there's a lot of it's local

43:58

first, maybe that's the best way to describe it. Like we yeah,

44:01

probably, like France, like French podcasts or for our for

44:05

the French. They're really not for anybody else first. Yeah,

44:08

Benjamin Bellamy: we don't get even many Canadian podcasts like

44:13

French speaking Canadian podcasts. We don't get that many

44:16

of them. So yeah, you're probably right. And the thing

44:20

is, if you watch Netflix in France, you'll get many, many US

44:25

programs and from everywhere, but

44:29

Adam Curry: it's called democracy bad. That's how we

44:31

spread democracy. Benjamin Bellamy: The main reason for that is probably the

44:37

closed caption. So this is probably where the transcript

44:45

tag will change everything that Apple is going to use it. Maybe

44:55

that will change many things.

44:58

Adam Curry: Is there a need Oh, this is interest. Sing. Now I

45:01

grew up in the Netherlands where I believe people learned English

45:04

by watching American and am British but American television

45:11

shows with subtitles. In fact, I'm really good at watching

45:14

anything with subtitles, because that's just how we roll. And

45:18

this is how my daughter's learned English. Yes. So is it?

45:22

Should we be creating? or should there be services that create

45:27

translations of transcripts?

45:30

Benjamin Bellamy: Not necessarily. Because if you have an English spoken podcast with English subtitles, usually is

45:38

going to be enough. You can maybe you need the French

45:43

transcription and translated if you're very young, but the you

45:49

know, the problem with the American accent is that we don't

45:52

understand anything that you say really, especially if you're if

45:55

you're from Texas. Adam Curry: Okay. Okay, so keep going.

46:00

Dave Jones: So when I say that I sat down yesterday and played

46:02

the guitar across the same way to

46:09

Benjamin Bellamy: but the thing is, we are there are very, very

46:12

few person listening to American podcast in France, because it's

46:18

really hard to understand. The underside lists. You already

46:24

are, you took about a sparkle and I think that serial was the

46:27

one you guys had in the US.

46:31

Adam Curry: Yeah, that region, that region in reignited

46:33

podcasting in 2015, or something. 2016. Yeah,

46:37

Benjamin Bellamy: 14, I guess. But yeah. And I listened to that

46:42

show, and I really loved it. But I have to admit, like, there was

46:45

hard to follow on some, yeah, some details. And the thing is,

46:48

like, I can do the dishes, or Iran or stuff like that, but I

46:54

need, like 90% of my brain, if I want to listen to a podcast

47:00

that's in English, yeah. And I cannot understand anything else.

47:03

Whereas if it's in French, I can do it. But

47:06

Adam Curry: I gotta tell you, I mean, I would really love to see

47:08

French independent podcasts, I saw this happen in the

47:11

Netherlands, it kind of happened over the past four or five

47:14

years. A few guys, you know, really were pushing it hard. And

47:18

then they, and then just something happened. And he got a

47:21

couple of shows. And then all the kids all sudden, were

47:23

listening to podcasts. I mean, they can happen. It just had

47:28

just maybe it's a cultural thing. But I think it can happen

47:31

in every country. And it just seems like it will be so

47:33

enriching for the culture in

47:37

Benjamin Bellamy: it, because there are some really, really

47:40

good podcasts in France. The thing is, you need the audience

47:44

to meet the podcast. And that's something that's not automatic.

47:50

And you need probably people to move from the radio to the

47:55

podcast, and there's a discoverability issue. That's

48:00

the program that everyone says, If I'm a listener, where do

48:05

where do I get podcasts? How do I find them? And if you're a

48:08

podcaster, how do I get discovered, right? And again,

48:13

transcription, from my point of view will change everything.

48:17

Adam Curry: Okay? Because tell us now that Apple is doing that

48:19

tell us. Benjamin Bellamy: The thing is, if you look at the podcasting

48:25

ecosystem now, in terms of SEO, we are exactly at the point

48:30

where we were for the web in 1995.

48:35

Adam Curry: You're still using Internet Explorer. Benjamin Bellamy: Yeah, or Netscape or mosaic how I was

48:43

using links, links. Yeah, there

48:45

Adam Curry: you go. That's a real man uses links. Absolutely.

48:49

Dave Jones: All the way down to the blood. Yeah, Adam Curry: it does images. Now, you know, links is pretty has

48:53

developed over time. Benjamin Bellamy: And back then, we were using Yahoo, and

49:01

AltaVista and these search engine, they only looked at the

49:07

title and maybe some meta metadata. And that sets and this

49:14

is what podcasting is right now. Looking for podcasts in Apple

49:19

podcasts is impossible. If you're looking for something,

49:23

the keyword needs to be in the title, otherwise, you're 100%

49:27

sure that you won't find it. Right. So we are still just

49:33

looking searching within the title and some metadata. If you

49:38

are lucky. Not that we are getting the transcription and my

49:42

guess is that Apple podcasts pushing transcription will make

49:49

everyone using it. Because so far it's been three years since

49:54

like cassava has been using transcription and pushing them.

49:57

But we know that that's not enough. And you heard the guys

50:02

that eclipsing three weeks ago when they say yeah, it's useless

50:05

because no one is using it. Yeah, my guess is that yeah,

50:09

probably they're looking at it right now.

50:13

Adam Curry: Yeah. Because Apple, because Apple added it. Now

50:16

they're looking at it, of course. Benjamin Bellamy: So I'm using one of our snowball effects Now,

50:21

regarding the translation, the transcription, sorry. And, and

50:26

we meaning that now, it will be possible to index everything and

50:31

to index the content and to know exactly what it's talking about.

50:35

And the discoverability will change radically, radically.

50:41

Dave Jones: So it how many. So when it comes to OP three, how

50:46

many? Are there any French podcasts that you have no, of

50:50

using op three, because I would love to see what the

50:52

consumption? I would love to see what the app app breakdown is.

50:57

And see what what apps people are using in France to listen to

51:03

French podcasts? Benjamin Bellamy: Oh, yeah, that's very easy. I don't have

51:08

the number is going to be app already. But actually, no, there

51:14

is no, there is no rule. It really depends on the podcast.

51:20

It depends also on the country. But it's Yeah, depends on the

51:23

podcast, like a podcast talking about open source. And there are

51:28

many of these using castable. Use usually, Apple and Spotify

51:34

are not the first ones. So it depends on the audience. You can

51:40

have surprises Adam Curry: everywhere. No, I agree with that. I, I love the

51:46

individual stats that op three delivers. I see I see my stats,

51:50

I see pod verse and podcast guru up there very high, sometimes

51:55

higher than Apple or any other app you write it depends on

51:59

audience. And that's by the way, I I'm not a big fan of looking

52:02

at, you know, who's number one across everything. You know, to

52:06

me, that's a senseless award shows. Benjamin Bellamy: Yeah, and that's not the point at all of

52:12

Opie three. And I know that John's said it, he, there's

52:16

there is no top 10 on the on the mp3, he doesn't want it good.

52:20

Good. That's that's not the goal for that tool. But nevertheless,

52:24

it's interesting to see and to get numbers on how it's used.

52:30

But in the end, you know that if a host says listen to my podcast

52:35

on Apple podcast and give me stars, guess what this is where

52:39

the user will go. If you say use something for a new podcast

52:43

apps.com That works. In the end, if everyone says that, in the

52:49

end, you know that people will switch and move to a platform

52:53

where they can have more features. Or

52:59

Dave Jones: let me push back on that for a second, though, because that's that's it's sort of it's circular, though.

53:07

Because when somebody when you're listening to a podcast,

53:10

and somebody says, listen to us on Apple podcast, you're already

53:14

listening to the podcasts or you're already listening to it

53:16

on something. So now I can see that you would switch that could

53:21

cause you to switch to a different podcast app. But how

53:25

did they even get into that to begin with? But how? I guess

53:29

what's the entry point into being able to initially even

53:33

hear the podcast in order to hear somebody say I wish you

53:36

would listen to us on this other thing? Benjamin Bellamy: The exact same mechanism. Like when you used to

53:45

go on a websites with Internet Explorer, and they said, Yeah,

53:49

you better use Chrome Adam Curry: or Firefox. Yeah. Yep. Same. That took years. But

53:53

it worked. Yeah, Benjamin Bellamy: eventually it works. And also, you also have

54:00

to, to know that many listeners, they discover the podcast on the

54:06

podcast websites, yes. And they click play within Firefox or

54:11

Chrome or Internet Explorer, maybe? I don't know. So that's

54:17

the entry. Usually that's the entry points, because still

54:22

going back to discoverability, and search engines, if you

54:28

there's that many goods search engine for podcasting. So if you

54:33

look by you're probably searched in Google, and Google will lead

54:39

you to the website. Adam Curry: That's how I've so no agenda. Yeah, it's been

54:46

around a long time. But we have we've never asked for ratings

54:51

never and we have as many five stars as one stars on Apple. We

54:57

think we might have been featured once 10 years ago. But

55:01

we've I mean, we've never marketed never spent a dime on

55:05

it. We've just asked our listeners to do that. I think

55:07

that's so underrated. And we ask your listeners to to tell

55:12

people, there's no discovery really? Yeah, we buy now where

55:18

we have a lot of top placement in in search engines. But I just

55:26

I don't know I, to me, it's like, you want people to tell

55:30

other people. That's the best way, that's someone who's

55:33

actually going to go and get it. I'm the number of people who

55:36

said, I was looking for news with no agenda, I can count on

55:39

one hand. Dave Jones: But I was, you know, I'm thinking that I think pod

55:46

roll will help this a lot. It will help bring, bring some

55:49

linkage between podcasting. And I think publisher feeds, when we

55:53

get that one across the finish line, I think those two things

55:56

are going to help build a structure that's crawlable, like

56:00

in a way that we've never had before, where there is actual

56:04

linkage between shows, instead of depending on instead of

56:09

depending on Google, and these are in or for depending on just

56:14

textual, like machine learning or something which is really not

56:18

going to get you to where we want to be, we want to use what

56:22

you want is recommended as a recommendation engine that's

56:24

based on pure money. That's yeah, humans in your own sphere.

56:31

Like so. Because if I'm listening to if I'm listening to

56:35

a show, I want, I may not, I may not want to listen to the show

56:40

that the hosts of that show or listening to, but at least May I

56:46

probably want to know those shows exists. So that can give

56:50

them a shot. They can try it out. It

56:52

Adam Curry: wasn't a recommendation, a big push for you, Ben.

56:55

Benjamin Bellamy: Yeah. It's something that I wrote like,

56:58

three years ago, almost. Yeah, I remember. Yeah. And if you're,

57:05

if you look back at my example, about SEO, there was a radical

57:11

change in SEO when Google started working and indexed the

57:17

whole pages and all the contents. So that's one key

57:21

feature that we need. And my guess is that that will have

57:25

that with the transcriptions. The other part for Google was

57:29

the PageRank. If you remember, it's impossible to see it, but

57:33

it still exists, the page rank. So like a rates be between zero

57:40

and 10, I guess, that allows to sort the results for the engine

57:47

regarding the query that you entered. And it was calculated

57:51

with the links from one page to another and the more inbound

57:56

links you have, the better your page rank is. And that's also

58:00

something that we probably need on the on the podcasts and the

58:05

pod roll. can help for that, because you can link from one

58:10

podcast to another. Because if you take a step back, that's

58:13

something really weird that's since all these years, there is

58:19

no link between podcasts, no connection at all. We build the

58:25

internet on the hyperlinks, but we didn't put any of them for

58:32

the podcasting. So patrol is about that. The recommendation

58:40

tag that I wrote a specification for so I guess it was three

58:45

years ago, was clearly to to enable that to say this podcast

58:52

was based on another one that talks about the same subject, or

58:58

is I recommend this other one or so that you can have links and

59:04

have like a graph of all the podcasts. Right? I think the

59:09

recommendation, recommendation tag didn't work eventually

59:14

because it was too complex. So probably at some points. I won't

59:21

give up. But it probably needs to be rewritten from scratch.

59:26

Well, the Adam Curry: thing was the thing with POD roll, which I think is

59:28

a start of what of what we're talking about here is everyone's

59:33

busy, but I'm just looking at the at the Apps page. I think

59:37

the only app that supports it is while true fans and pod friend

59:42

and no other app seems to be supporting it, which is a shame

59:45

because it's it's it's so it's such an obvious good feature.

59:49

And we've seen the success of a blog role and and as just as you

59:56

said, you can start to build these these links and these

59:58

connections. Maybe the that'll come in when we do the

1:00:01

publisher, the publisher tag, that. I mean, it ultimately is

1:00:06

just a matter of what, what the app developers have time for and

1:00:10

what they feel like implementing. So we have no, we

1:00:12

have no control. Dave Jones: It seems like something new. as an app

1:00:17

developer, it would not be too complex. But when you finish,

1:00:20

when you finish an episode, you know, or you are alongside an

1:00:24

episode, there's somewhere visually you can indicate, well,

1:00:27

here's here's some other podcasts that this show

1:00:29

recommends. To me, because the linkage and everything is

1:00:32

pretty, it's there. It's really straightforward. And I think,

1:00:38

you know, I just doesn't seem like a, it doesn't seem like a

1:00:40

big lift. That to do that is like, Well, does. Wait does cast

1:00:46

a pod? Do y'all do pod roll yet? Ben? No, no. Okay. Any plans on

1:00:53

that? Benjamin Bellamy: It's on the roadmap, but on top of exactly

1:01:01

in Dave Jones: the list, right? In the list. Yeah, I guess you.

1:01:06

What can we talk about? Wait, let me let me take a detour

1:01:10

here. I want to talk about social a little bit because one

1:01:13

of the biggest things about cast apod in this has been from the

1:01:17

very beginning. And I will cop to this that I early on and one

1:01:23

of the developer roundtables that that we had, you, you and

1:01:28

your scene got on to the zoom. And we're saying that podcasting

1:01:34

really did benefit from having a deeper integration with activity

1:01:39

pub. And I did not understand activity pub enough at the time

1:01:43

to see to see the power of what you were talking about. But I've

1:01:47

totally, I've totally changed on that. I totally understand what

1:01:51

you were saying now. And I think activity pub, and RSS. I think

1:01:57

they're just perfect bedfellows. And I think so cast apod has

1:02:04

been from the beginning. And activity pub centric experience.

1:02:10

I think it's basically designed around activity pub as a first

1:02:15

class citizen. And what I'm trying to do now after I wrote

1:02:20

the activity pub, the index activity pub bridge, what I've

1:02:25

been trying to do is figure out a way to link a podcast owner to

1:02:31

an activity pub identity. So that you could say, Okay, this

1:02:37

podcast, which now has a has an actor on the fediverse. This

1:02:44

other actor is the owner of this podcast, so that so that that

1:02:49

owners actor object gets a lot of get some preferential

1:02:54

treatment, I guess, and becomes important as a link to the, to

1:03:01

the podcast. And so we've thrown around a bunch of ideas. And

1:03:06

when I was with Nate, like Nathan gathright came up with

1:03:09

some ideas, and he, you know, we could say, well, let's just goes

1:03:14

back to your proposal, when you first embroiled in social

1:03:17

interact, you had a separate tag for social sign up, and then a

1:03:23

tag just called social. And but then Nathan said, you know, and

1:03:28

when we could go back to that, we could say, Okay, well,

1:03:31

here's, here's a podcast, and we define a tag where you can

1:03:35

explicitly say, the owner of this podcast, is this activity

1:03:40

pub handle. But you could also say, Well, let's look in the

1:03:46

person tag. And we could add an attribute there. Or we could do

1:03:50

a web finger lookup on the URL that's in the person tag, and

1:03:57

try to discover an activity pub object from that. Do you have

1:04:01

any ideas around what you think makes the most sense?

1:04:07

Benjamin Bellamy: Well, I think you, you need to keep that as

1:04:10

simple as possible. I'm not very comfortable with the fact that

1:04:14

you have many actors, because you don't know how this will

1:04:19

behave on the other platform on the fediverse. And we have many

1:04:25

feedbacks from users saying, Well, I'm a bit lost because I

1:04:29

have, I have an account on the fediverse forum. For Mastodon, I

1:04:34

have one for pixel fed, and I have one for a custom bird and I

1:04:38

wish I had only one of them to group them or so I think it's

1:04:43

the same idea of I need like a master one or but the thing is,

1:04:50

I like to have separate things like my podcast is exists by

1:04:56

itself. It's a thing on the fediverse and If I have me as a

1:05:02

user or as a podcaster, and other accounts on Mastodon, I

1:05:06

think that's great. And the good thing is that on the favors, all

1:05:11

these actors can talk to each other and they can share and

1:05:17

like and comments, and talk together. But if you take a step

1:05:23

back and think of what it was before the fediverse, well, you

1:05:27

had an email address, and you had a Facebook account and a

1:05:30

Twitter account and a SoundCloud account exactly the same. The

1:05:35

big difference is that all these accounts could not talk

1:05:38

together, thanks to the fediverse, they can talk

1:05:42

together. So you still have to, to have an accounts for a

1:05:49

specific task of road that you want to do. And I think that's

1:05:55

good that you, you need to have separate interfaces or stuff,

1:06:01

because it's not the same role. But in the end, since they can

1:06:05

talk together, well, that's good. And probably you you can

1:06:12

use, like, something that we don't have in Casper, that we

1:06:16

have to add it in any future that has mustard on, you can you

1:06:25

can say a who, which website owns this accounts. So that's,

1:06:32

in the end, you'll be able to proceed on your accounts. You

1:06:40

see what I mean? Yeah, Dave Jones: cuz what I could see is like that right now, the

1:06:45

bridge, you can follow a podcast, as an as an actor, you

1:06:49

can follow a podcast on the fediverse through the podcast,

1:06:52

index bridge. But if that was a cast a pod podcast, then what I

1:07:00

would want to do probably is forward those requests

1:07:05

basically, treat that as as if the account had moved from the

1:07:10

bridge to the to cast upon itself,

1:07:14

Benjamin Bellamy: which through that hassle, I think that's too

1:07:17

complex. Where you're going to draw, you

1:07:20

Dave Jones: wouldn't, you wouldn't want to redirect them

1:07:22

to the official cast upon instance, Benjamin Bellamy: I would have the link on my bio and say, my

1:07:30

podcast is here. Subscribe, Dave Jones: instead of doing it at the activity level, yeah.

1:07:36

Okay, keep it so yeah, either way, either way. I just want

1:07:39

like if you have a podcast, and you have a cast apod so if you

1:07:45

have if your podcast is on the fediverse. But then you also

1:07:50

have an account on the fediverse. I just want to know

1:07:53

that you are the one who's the podcaster. Yeah.

1:07:59

Benjamin Bellamy: Yeah, so that's something that we have to

1:08:02

add to gastropod. Like he's, you know, it, we're

1:08:07

Dave Jones: gonna add that how would you do it? Like, what would you bow would your design be?

1:08:12

Benjamin Bellamy: Or your you add metadata rail, you know, and

1:08:15

to, and that's, it's

1:08:18

Adam Curry: the same set the method? Yeah.

1:08:20

Benjamin Bellamy: And you do it both ways. So right, now we've

1:08:24

cast it, but there is no way to do it either way. But that's not

1:08:29

something very difficult to do. It's just a link.

1:08:32

Dave Jones: But what would it look like in the RSS feed,

1:08:34

though? So if I'm declaring my past,

1:08:37

Benjamin Bellamy: that's not RSS. That's not in the RSS, you

1:08:40

have to put that on the web page. Dave Jones: Right now, I understand. But with from an RSS

1:08:46

standpoint, how do we know? How do I how does the index, I want

1:08:50

to wait for your index to know? Oh,

1:08:53

Benjamin Bellamy: you can add the link in the RSS the same,

1:08:55

you would add it in the HTML page? You just have. You need

1:08:59

the app, Id the player to look into the RSS feed and, and

1:09:05

verify if if everything's okay.

1:09:09

Dave Jones: Yeah. So with the the link, so that you would have

1:09:13

to the link, I think link is an atom tag, right? You'd have to

1:09:16

declare the atom namespace and bring that in with the row.

1:09:21

Okay. Yeah, we've got some options here. I mean, that's

1:09:25

because that's really where I want. It's really where I want

1:09:29

things to be. Because the social interact stuff is working really

1:09:32

well. I mean, I think that tag is great. It's just, it's, it's

1:09:40

lacking this one bit of information, which is where are

1:09:44

the people who host the show? Like who are they on the

1:09:48

fediverse M, we have to be able to we have to be able to go from

1:09:53

a podcast that declares its its its presence on the social on

1:09:59

the on the on the phone refers to who are the people who are

1:10:02

involved? And I think, I think that probably ends up landing in

1:10:05

some point Adam Curry: that person tag. Yeah, person tag with a rel

1:10:09

equals Yeah. Yeah. Sounds like the easy way to do it.

1:10:12

Benjamin Bellamy: In the HTML page, it's just like a h ref.

1:10:16

And then the link to your, your a mastodon account rel equals

1:10:21

me. So you could put the same in the RSS exactly the same. Yeah,

1:10:28

but the thing is, if you do that, it's you have to, it's not

1:10:33

going to be very symmetric, you have to think of which app we'll

1:10:40

try to verify and how those that's going to work. But that's

1:10:46

how I would do it. Just to say I'm the owner of this.

1:10:51

Adam Curry: Right? I Benjamin Bellamy: am, sorry, just together make to step backs

1:10:59

about the whole fediverse and activity web stuff, because we

1:11:05

know it's complex. And not all users understand why we're doing

1:11:09

that. The whole point of Castile pod when we began working on it,

1:11:14

was to make sure that podcaster stay in control, and Ghana don't

1:11:22

get ripped off of their their value. And the value of a

1:11:25

podcaster is the content and the audience. So the fact that

1:11:29

caster pod is open source and can be self hosted, ensures that

1:11:34

you can self host your content, your mp3 and metadata, and no

1:11:39

one can remove that from you. And for the audience, the

1:11:46

activity pub stuff, the failover stuff ensures that you have a

1:11:50

direct contact between your podcast and your audience. And

1:11:56

your audience can talk, share like and and comment your

1:12:02

episodes from your podcast with no middleman. And there's no

1:12:09

one, no one that can cut the connection between your podcast

1:12:15

and your audience. That's something really important. So

1:12:18

it's not just for fun, because we thought it's a cool feature

1:12:22

to have little stores on the castor pod websites. And in that

1:12:26

you can see the comments on the gastropod. website. It's it's

1:12:30

really important that there's no middleman between the content

1:12:35

and the audience. So great content. Yeah,

1:12:38

Adam Curry: no, go ahead. I'm sorry. Finish your question. Finish your thought.

1:12:41

Benjamin Bellamy: When you when you when you create a podcast on

1:12:45

Casta pod no one can steal what you created. Neither the content

1:12:52

nor the audience. Adam Curry: Day Have you been I know you've been looking at? Oh,

1:12:56

I saw some threads about blue sky. What am I now to understand

1:13:00

that there could be a bridge between a podcast through the

1:13:06

index activity pub and then ultimately bridge through to

1:13:10

blue sky? Dave Jones: That the I think people are making Blue Sky

1:13:14

bridges. Okay, I don't

1:13:16

Adam Curry: because that doesn't mean it's real federal That to me is real. fediverse when that stuff happens was

1:13:21

Dave Jones: that I think the blue sky stuff that I saw this week was about them federating amongst themselves Okay, all

1:13:27

right, like because you said that you could have other

1:13:29

personal data servers within blue sky but I don't and I know

1:13:34

there are projects going that will that will bridge

1:13:37

Adam Curry: Federer I sure hope so. I sure hope so because I

1:13:40

really enjoy the the nostril BRIDGES I mean, I love following

1:13:43

people who are on nostra except for the long numbers or whatever

1:13:50

but but I it to me it's like I see more and more of a you know,

1:13:54

the and I have my own my own Mastodon instance. I love having

1:13:58

it kind of the hub of all these different social networks to me

1:14:01

that's that's That is the true fediverse There.

1:14:04

Dave Jones: It feels like the activity pub. It feels like

1:14:07

activity pub fediverse is sort of the hub that these other ones

1:14:11

are attaching detaching to Yeah, yeah it's like it's like you

1:14:14

have you know, imagine it as like Mickey Mouse's head with

1:14:18

the Fed or you know with activity pub as the as the as

1:14:21

the face in the the blue sky is one of the ears and nostrils the

1:14:25

other ear. Got it? That's what it feels like.

1:14:30

Adam Curry: Let's let's take a little break here gentlemen,

1:14:32

let's play a little bit of music as we'd like to do here on the

1:14:34

so we can keep our stats up there and that our says blue.com

1:14:37

stats page. Nice. Benjamin, I will tell you, disappointingly,

1:14:44

I could not find or nor do I have a way to find any French

1:14:47

songs in that are up on value for value. I would love to have

1:14:53

some Shawn songs to play. I've found some Japanese should have

1:14:57

told me Benjamin Bellamy: I would have looked for it

1:15:01

Adam Curry: I mean there's unfortunately there's no way to

1:15:04

really find out I don't think if a song is in the French language

1:15:09

is there I don't think there is

1:15:13

Dave Jones: but it's the language tag in the RSS yeah so

1:15:16

certainly Adam Curry: now with music Well if you find any Benjamin I love

1:15:19

I love short songs Benjamin Bellamy: yeah I think it's if I have to

1:15:24

Adam Curry: that's okay thank you that's fine take it away

1:15:27

we're gonna play new artists Emily Rana nice and short this

1:15:32

one I think people like it this is called someone else clothes

1:15:59

Unknown: as a stranger in my house in my house

1:16:26

own house in my house someone else someone else

1:17:01

there's a stranger in my house in my house but it's easy

1:17:08

someone else someone

1:17:38

wish I could kick you and change the lungs

1:17:55

will make excuses

1:18:18

Adam Curry: Emily Rana, someone else I'd like this song for a

1:18:20

number of reasons one because it's it's kind of like the

1:18:24

Ainsley Costello Poppy vibe. And you need that these days too,

1:18:28

because I believe this is an artist who assigned with phantom

1:18:32

power music. And I really like what those guys are doing

1:18:36

because they're they're taking some very simple concepts of

1:18:40

record promotion, they email me with, you know, three, three

1:18:44

songs a week, this is what we recommend. This is who we're

1:18:47

working with, you know, it's called promoting, as marketing.

1:18:51

I really enjoy that because that we need that kind of stuff to

1:18:55

build to build more of a, a system and ecosystem. And I will

1:19:01

make my plea once again to the to the app developers, I would

1:19:05

love for you to look at your TLV records. What you're sending, I

1:19:09

have no idea if you're boosting for a song for many of the apps,

1:19:15

and if you feel like it, adding that reply to in your TLV record

1:19:20

is just so joyous. I love sending SATs back to people I

1:19:25

know it's a it's another one of those things you put on your

1:19:27

list but man and I think the split kid only sends the artists

1:19:32

which is completely unhelpful. But I know Stephen, Stephen P is

1:19:36

very busy. So yeah, that's my that's my weekly plea to look at

1:19:41

your TLV records because it really makes a difference to see

1:19:44

what and for the artists to because they get a boost to

1:19:47

grammar they don't know. They don't know. They just see

1:19:50

booster Grand Ball. They don't end they don't know what song it

1:19:52

was for anything. Dave Jones: I'm gonna I'm resisting the urge to get into

1:19:56

fee discussions here because I'm afraid everybody would just draw

1:19:59

their forehead into the wall. Adam Curry: I don't know I think activity pub got me ready to

1:20:03

shoot myself. But you know, a few Dave Jones: will say it will say I want

1:20:10

Adam Curry: to say where? Let me see. Then I wanted to just

1:20:16

because you were so kind to send through a bunch of questions, I

1:20:19

wanted to roll through your needs, you had three we need.

1:20:24

And so we just walked through those for a second. Because, you

1:20:27

know, seems like seems like it's something you want to talk

1:20:30

about. I don't know.

1:20:36

Dave Jones: Worse and an ad, yeah, Adam Curry: analytics tags source tag and a tag to create

1:20:42

an ad ecosystem. Or we could talk about why affiliation is

1:20:45

the only solution to save the internet from online ads.

1:20:50

Benjamin Bellamy: How many? How much time do we have?

1:20:53

Adam Curry: Well, we got we got two minutes.

1:21:00

Benjamin Bellamy: I'd be very quick. No. Since fade seven is

1:21:08

closing on June. The First I was thinking that maybe we could add

1:21:13

a little, little. Yeah, a few more tags so that they don't get

1:21:20

bored. Adam Curry: Oh, okay. Dave Jones: Yes, thank you. All right, thinking of maybe Okay,

1:21:26

Adam Curry: so All right. Let's talk about him. Benjamin Bellamy: Yeah, so we talked about the recommendation

1:21:32

tag that's probably need complete rewrites. I was

1:21:37

thinking about an a podcast analytics tag, because the other

1:21:42

day I was looking at some podcasts in mp3, and you have to

1:21:47

find the UID and see if it exist. And if you get a four,

1:21:52

four, it's mean that it's not there. So maybe just add a link

1:21:56

to the OP three page for this specific podcast. So that you

1:22:01

know if it's worth looking there, if it's here, and that's

1:22:06

very easy to do very cheap. And that will help promoting or p3,

1:22:12

I guess. I was also thinking about adding, and this was not

1:22:19

in my email, because I've been, I found a diver a dozen other

1:22:24

tags, where I was asleep last night. I think we need a country

1:22:29

tag because we know what language is. Is a podcast which

1:22:36

language it is, but we don't know from each country. So we

1:22:41

don't know if it's in English. If it's for US, UK, or Australia

1:22:45

or wherever. If it's French, we don't know if it's from Africa

1:22:49

from Belgium or Canada, Canada or France.

1:22:55

Adam Curry: Are you talking about using the ISO 3166? Code?

1:23:00

Exactly? Yeah, yeah. Benjamin Bellamy: That would be cool as well. Even if not

1:23:06

everyone uses it, it will give you a real idea of the numbers.

1:23:12

Because we really can tell now, unless we know that all of them.

1:23:19

And so

1:23:23

Dave Jones: something like the location tag location tag is

1:23:26

what the is what the is the location that the podcast is

1:23:29

about. But the country tag would be where it's originated.

1:23:32

Origin. Benjamin Bellamy: Yeah, exactly. Because if you use the location

1:23:36

tag, to specify where the podcast was recorded, James

1:23:44

Cridland will get you. And yes.

1:23:49

Adam Curry: Because yes, which is why no one uses it. I'm

1:23:52

afraid to do it wrong. I don't want Cridland to slap me. Yeah.

1:23:58

That's, I'm a fan of that. I mean, people, people use it, or

1:24:03

PayPal, uses the 3166. And I always appreciate that when we

1:24:09

have donations for no agenda. Because no matter what we are

1:24:12

town, and believe me, there's a lot of Paris. You know, then you

1:24:17

can really see what country it is. And I I'm all for that. I

1:24:20

think it's a good idea. And I know most of them by heart, you

1:24:22

know, just because of the country stickers and that your

1:24:25

Europeans use. Yeah, on the cars.

1:24:31

Dave Jones: As I like to two letters like is that the two letter codes?

1:24:34

Adam Curry: Yeah, yeah, it's exactly what I guess. Okay.

1:24:38

Benjamin Bellamy: I think we also need a source tag to know

1:24:43

where the podcast was originally broadcasted, or published. So

1:24:49

if, if before being a podcast, it was a Twitch live, or it was

1:24:54

a live item, or it was maybe on YouTube or on A radio network so

1:25:02

that you know where it was before being a podcast. Or maybe

1:25:06

it's a rerun. And that could be very useful in France, where,

1:25:12

you know, we don't do everything the same way.

1:25:17

Dave Jones: Oh, you mean that if if, if there's a podcast episode

1:25:21

you're listening to, you would want to know whether that

1:25:24

originally was like a radio program?

1:25:26

Benjamin Bellamy: Exactly if what we call native podcasts,

1:25:30

which means it was published as a podcast first, or if it's a

1:25:35

rerun or not. are a few radio podcasts? Yeah. And it would, it

1:25:44

would provide useful information to know where it was published

1:25:49

in the first place. Yeah, okay. So it's a URL. And if it's

1:25:54

empty, it means it's what we call in French. Podcasts.

1:25:58

Native, native. Native native. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You speak

1:26:04

French? Adam Curry: May we? Speak of James Cridland? For just a

1:26:11

moment. You interviewed him for? What magazine? Was

1:26:16

Benjamin Bellamy: that for? Loop? Podcast? Magazine? Yes.

1:26:19

Adam Curry: The podcast magazine, which is a? I mean,

1:26:21

that's a beautiful product. Benjamin Bellamy: Actually, it is. Yeah. 200 pages as a

1:26:26

Adam Curry: real? What's the circulation of that? There's a

1:26:29

lot of people and how do you even distribute that? Do you

1:26:31

have to order it? Or can or is there put them at newsstands? Do

1:26:35

you throw them out? Your car window? How do people get those?

1:26:39

Benjamin Bellamy: Know you subscribe on podcast. magazine.fr.

1:26:43

Adam Curry: And then you get it in the mail? Yeah. And yes,

1:26:50

it's, Benjamin Bellamy: it's published by a guy named Philip chapeau.

1:26:56

Who is also Adam Curry: like, that's like Phil hat. Is that his name?

1:27:00

Philip? Chapeau. Phil hat. Benjamin Bellamy: Exactly. Yeah. Actually, James Cridland calls

1:27:07

him Mr. Hats. Adam Curry: There you go. Mr. Hat? Yes. You sent me some

1:27:15

clips. Which I did. I didn't know that. That you recorded it.

1:27:21

Was that from the interview that you recorded? And then you just

1:27:24

transcribed it? Or did you publish these somewhere? No,

1:27:28

Benjamin Bellamy: no one. Ever heard that before?

1:27:31

Adam Curry: Oh, well, can I play the one where you ask James

1:27:33

about me? Because obviously, it's about me. I think that's

1:27:36

the most important clip, please.

1:27:39

Benjamin Bellamy: Oh, here we go. Oh, you know,

1:27:41

Adam Curry: wait a minute. I had it set. You did? Left. Right.

1:27:44

Really? One second? You did you on left and him on?

1:27:48

Benjamin Bellamy: Right. Yeah. Adam Curry: You have to play it on mono? Yes. Okay, that takes a

1:27:53

second here. Here we go. Let's see if this works.

1:27:56

Benjamin Bellamy: You know, Adam Korea doesn't mince his words

1:28:00

when she disagrees with someone. And that includes you. Are you

1:28:07

getting along? Unknown: Yes, I think so. Yes, I think so. Absolutely.

1:28:11

Absolutely. He and I are both he and I are very similar.

1:28:17

Actually, we both are very obsessive about, about what we

1:28:22

are interested in. And that means that if people either

1:28:27

don't get it or are, you know, willfully not getting it, then,

1:28:32

you know, we will be we will not be particularly happy about

1:28:35

that. But no, you know, I think what is what is exciting about

1:28:43

the whole podcasting 2.0 ecosystem is that actually,

1:28:48

people are incredibly passionate about what they are, what they

1:28:53

are doing. And sometimes that means that people that people's

1:28:57

ideas clash, and that's actually great. I would much rather that

1:29:00

than interminable. You know, meetings, people saying one

1:29:05

thing and doing the other and blah, blah, blah, at least you

1:29:07

know, where you stand. So that's a good thing. Adam Curry: Oh, that was kind of him. Yeah, I agree. I'm totally

1:29:15

on board. That's, I Dave Jones: agree to Yeah, agree to it's better. Like, it's

1:29:19

better to have people get super pissed off. Yeah. And then gripe

1:29:23

at each other and figure it out, and then figure it out, figure

1:29:25

it out. Yeah, figure it out and move forward. And then you're in

1:29:29

then everybody's fine. I mean, that's one thing. That's one

1:29:31

thing that defines this group more than any other open source

1:29:35

project I can ever remember. Exactly. Yeah. The passion and

1:29:40

the disagreement, but then everybody just moves on and

1:29:43

gets. We just push stuff out. It's more it's wonderful.

1:29:47

Adam Curry: That's why I say we I was gonna say Sam Sethi you

1:29:50

didn't have to send a note of apology for what you said about

1:29:53

me this week. He sent me he sent me an email. I'm sorry in

1:29:57

advance for my passion. was like I Have a curry. There's Adam

1:30:00

curry that was like, brother you don't? I've given up my right to

1:30:03

be offended long time ago. It's all good. And I love your

1:30:06

passion. Benjamin Bellamy: And you have to say when you disagree to, to

1:30:11

find meaning point in the end. Yeah. Yeah. Which leads me to my

1:30:18

last tag. We go because this one I think it's it's something on

1:30:27

which Adam and I strongly disagree. Beautiful here we go I

1:30:33

think we need a podcast add tag for advertising. Oh,

1:30:38

Adam Curry: for a very Why would you think I would disagree with

1:30:40

that I'm already interested I like this I just the fact that

1:30:43

you're thinking about it makes me interested. Benjamin Bellamy: I think you disagree because you're not so

1:30:50

much in the advertising. industry or a that's not the way

1:30:57

you you wish to promote podcasting. My point of view is

1:31:03

that we we cannot let YouTube and we cannot abandon the

1:31:11

podcast advertising to YouTube, or to Spotify or to anyone. And

1:31:18

there's something I was quite surprised when I first looked at

1:31:24

it, the numbers of the how many YouTube channels they are? I

1:31:30

don't know if you know that. No. Yeah, because no one knows.

1:31:35

Because obviously YouTube's they keep these hidden and secrets.

1:31:42

But we think they are around 30,000 youtube 30 million,

1:31:51

sorry, 30 million YouTube channels, which compared to 4

1:31:57

million podcasts is quite impressive. And the reason why

1:32:03

is, I guess that people try and build channels on YouTube,

1:32:10

because they have a dream that they will be able to monetize

1:32:14

and to make money out of it. Even if they don't know there is

1:32:18

no number of how much money you can get from a YouTube channel.

1:32:24

Like not if you're the first one or in the top 10. But if your

1:32:28

average, what's the median income from a YouTube channel

1:32:34

$2. But the thing is, the dream works. And YouTube manage to get

1:32:44

everyone on on its platform. And my fear is that, even though so

1:32:51

far, it doesn't work at all. Eventually, they managed to get

1:32:57

every podcaster in the world on their platform, because it's

1:33:01

easy. You don't pay for the hosting, you get all the tools

1:33:05

you need. You get the social network, you get the search

1:33:10

engine, you get the player, and you get the monetization

1:33:13

monetization parts. And as soon as they get everyone on board,

1:33:20

and it's across silo, and they have a monopoly, it's game over.

1:33:26

Probably some of us will still fight for an open and

1:33:32

interoperable podcasting across system. But you know, that

1:33:38

doesn't wait very much. myself, when I'm looking for a video on

1:33:44

the internet, I'm going to YouTube. So that's a huge risk.

1:33:51

So I think we need a really open an interconnected advertising

1:33:59

system for the podcasting industry. And one, we're all the

1:34:05

counterparts all the actors can share the same goal, because so

1:34:11

far, if you're looking at how things are working, if you're a

1:34:15

podcaster, you can add inserts an ad like audio ad, but the app

1:34:22

will get nothing out of it. And on the other end, if an ad puts

1:34:28

an advertise an advertisement on the app, like podcast addict

1:34:33

does, the podcaster will get nothing. So

1:34:36

Adam Curry: let me jump in here. Are you suggesting just let me

1:34:40

see if I'm following along and add tag that is an open call

1:34:44

that says you can add an advertisement to this podcast

1:34:49

and then there's here's some parameters, etc. So that

1:34:52

everyone knows. So you're building an open ecosystem so

1:34:55

that advertisers and advertising companies could come from the

1:34:59

outside and just utilize that

1:35:03

Benjamin Bellamy: and share revenue between the host, the

1:35:07

app, the podcaster. Dave Jones: So this sounds like this sounds sort of like what

1:35:16

Google is trying to do in the browser with their new would get

1:35:21

the name of it with this new thing where they're essentially

1:35:23

turning the browser into the ad auction platform. But you're

1:35:28

saying that so instead of having a centralized ad,

1:35:35

Adam Curry: or host only, or a hosting company only, that's

1:35:38

kind of how I see it working now, as the hosting companies

1:35:40

are doing a lot of that work, Dave Jones: or sandbox. Thank you. Thank you.

1:35:45

Benjamin Bellamy: Yeah, but the thing is, we need to be first to

1:35:51

write down this specification so that it meets what we need, what

1:35:56

we think would be the right thing to do. For one thing,

1:36:00

there's something really cool that I like a lot about the

1:36:03

podcasting ecosystem, is that there is no cookie. There's

1:36:08

never been any cookies in the podcasting apps. So right now,

1:36:14

if you're listening to a podcast with audio insertion, maybe it

1:36:19

will be geo localized. But that's about it. Because the

1:36:25

attack doesn't know anything about you as a listener. When

1:36:30

you go on the websites, they have your whole history for the

1:36:36

past six months, when you're listening to a podcast in a

1:36:39

podcast app, they know nothing, which is a really good thing in

1:36:42

my point of view, because I think that advertisements should

1:36:49

be contextual, Dave Jones: for energy, here's

1:36:52

Benjamin Bellamy: what I hear rely. Dave Jones: Here's what I would like to see. If if this is

1:36:59

something that the advertising we we hear all the time from the

1:37:03

ad people from media roundtable was sounds profitable. I mean,

1:37:12

there's there Magellan, there's, I mean, all endless numbers of,

1:37:16

of advocates and advertising agencies within podcasting and

1:37:20

audio in general, if this is something that they want to have

1:37:25

as an open specification for, for this type of thing, if the

1:37:30

if they're sear if if like, if that's something they want, I

1:37:34

would like that, I would say they should write it, they

1:37:36

should write the specification, submitted to the net to the

1:37:39

namespace and let everybody hash it out. Adam Curry: And the part that I like Benjamin, and that's where

1:37:43

you where you grab my attention is that everybody shares in it,

1:37:47

the host, the podcast, and the app, that part I like, I like a

1:37:52

lot. But I'm with Dave, like, hey, you know, you guys are

1:37:55

always talking about it. Here's your opportunity. Go build it.

1:37:58

Right it Oh, yeah. But Benjamin Bellamy: I don't think if we wait for the ad tech to

1:38:03

write that. I don't think that's going to go well. They're

1:38:07

probably tried to reproduce what they've been doing on the

1:38:12

internet for the past 20 years. And I don't like that as, as a

1:38:17

as a user. Ad

1:38:19

Dave Jones: Tech is abandoning podcasting. Anyway, eventually

1:38:22

on the long term, then, I mean, they're, they're gonna bail out,

1:38:26

they're already trying to create a narrative of transition that

1:38:29

podcasting is is converting to video. Which is completely not

1:38:35

completely not true. That but it's because the money is

1:38:38

leaving podcasting and going to YouTube. So the ad agencies and

1:38:43

the digital advertising market is trying to create this

1:38:46

narrative so they can follow the money over to YouTube and bail

1:38:49

out of podcasts. And I think I think they're leaving anyway. So

1:38:53

I don't think we're choosing any of that. Benjamin Bellamy: Which is exactly my point. I don't

1:38:57

abandoned everything to YouTube. So

1:39:01

Dave Jones: I guess but I guess what I'm saying is that if they all leave there won't be anybody to even run this system anyway.

1:39:09

Benjamin Bellamy: I'll be here. Dave Jones: You already I mean, you add

1:39:17

Benjamin Bellamy: I'm fine. We've 100% of the market shares.

1:39:21

Adam Curry: Yeah, you write it up. I vote yes. I vote your

1:39:25

vote. I'd love to see it. Yeah, I'd love to see it. We'll call

1:39:28

it the cast to Dave Jones: add tag. Yes.

1:39:34

Adam Curry: Let's thank a few people as we near the end of our

1:39:38

time here today in this board meeting which has been just

1:39:42

lovely to to catch up with our our good old friend there.

1:39:45

Benjamin bellick Bellamy from from France. We have a number of

1:39:51

boosts that came in Dobie das RSS blue with 1000 SAS just came

1:39:55

he says I just sent a booster Graham about how I hate fees and

1:39:58

all of it went to the artist To Bouverie 808 a boob burry booths this time next week. Homegirl is

1:40:11

an ad. This this is how I like advertising. This time next week

1:40:15

homegrown hits featuring Dame DeLorean Mary Kate altra and

1:40:19

dacb Cooper will have the first ever bootable disco ball. I

1:40:23

found a guy who's got a big big rehearsal space in Minneapolis.

1:40:28

He wants to host an onboard day where we bring in all the bands

1:40:31

that use the space onboard them and get them on stage for a set

1:40:35

during the live stream. And he says I'm going to need V for V

1:40:39

music videos. And blueberry is very, very jacked up about all

1:40:44

the music stuff. I love that. Of course he was a big part of the

1:40:49

Ainsley and just loud concert he has phantom power phantom power

1:40:54

music our 2000 SATs boosting for the Dutch Duke of decentralized

1:40:58

music thanks Adam and Dave love you to rove ducks from anonymous

1:41:04

you're seriously simple podcasting WordPress plugin is

1:41:08

very easy to use for an average user like myself What are you

1:41:13

saying who has the seriously simple podcasting WordPress

1:41:15

Dave Jones: a simple that's a cat that's what is the name of

1:41:21

that forgot to totally forgot the name of the host it's it's

1:41:25

escaping me. It's a guest host Thank you Nathan.

1:41:29

Adam Curry: catch those. Another 808 from blueberry dramatic been

1:41:33

adding all the music feeds we've hosted to our pre show feed for

1:41:36

pod roll can't wait to see it display fully somewhere. There

1:41:39

you go. People are publishers. We have a pod roll. I got a pod

1:41:42

rollin on my podcast now. D wave DW ev 1789 Mercy Benjamin for a

1:41:49

fantastic platform so proud to be contributed to the project.

1:41:53

Are you familiar with D wave? Yeah. Okay. And Matt madeiros

1:42:01

1000 SATs coming in from true fans. He says you're thinking

1:42:04

Dave about Tanner Campbell. Tanner, can. Whatever happened

1:42:09

to him? Whatever Dave Jones: happened? Yeah, he calls waves for a long time. And

1:42:13

then he just he waves away to substack and he said one day he

1:42:18

said I'm not going to do this anymore by

1:42:23

Adam Curry: Joe Martin music with 2100 sets and he says SATs

1:42:26

greater than streams. Hear that? Sir Brian of London 1948 This

1:42:31

week's episode better be full of Janessa quoi? I think we had

1:42:35

beaucoup Shanice ACWA kala Mona. I listened to striper boost 7777

1:42:41

listening live while preparing for my long drive back to

1:42:44

Missouri from California this weekend. This is her libre i

1:42:48

love playing here in value verse thank you all for your hard

1:42:51

work. Where are we with categories? Also Are we ever

1:42:55

going to get more Tor con seven May God bless you my brothers

1:42:59

sir libre. Yes, where's your kid man? northmor torque on now

1:43:04

Dave Jones: my my my son is currently trying to find a

1:43:08

welding gig so he has no time for for torque on paint. You

1:43:12

Adam Curry: think you think that the there'll be plenty of

1:43:15

openings for welders is Dave Jones: there is yeah there is he's just he's a PCB and he

1:43:21

doesn't have his certification yet. Okay. Fully Certified. So

1:43:26

he's trying to try to find a gig where he can work and still go

1:43:30

to school to get his finisher certification. Adam Curry: Dred Scott, the Bruce Wayne podcast in 2.0 with

1:43:35

a nice Rav ducks 22,222 Who says boosting MC boost boost boost

1:43:40

back at you drip and drip of course also does our chapters we

1:43:44

appreciate that salty Crayon 1111 here on upbeats ranch doing

1:43:49

things a little differently going forward might hurt some

1:43:52

feelings, but Bitcoin basic education is needed. We got too

1:43:56

many clueless cattle running around with no border collie to

1:43:59

guide them where to go wave Lake is Cargill. Okay he's cargoes

1:44:05

like the big big big ag we don't get from there anymore next the

1:44:10

bucket of Lb eggs in one basket is to fall from now on it's

1:44:14

grassroots grass finished musicians that get to come into

1:44:17

the ranch ITP Dave Jones: like grass finished moose musicians

1:44:23

Adam Curry: Yeah, well we definitely need if we need to

1:44:26

get Royer we need more more solutions for wallets for sure.

1:44:32

For sure. I have resorted to telling people that you know

1:44:35

what you can't do have to be afraid of Bitcoin you can buy it

1:44:38

right through you're right on Wall Street right through your

1:44:41

broker through your your for your your ETF. It's official.

1:44:47

It's real. It's not to it's not a scam. And let me see I think I

1:44:54

think that's it. Yeah. Then I hit the delimiter. So Dave over

1:44:58

to you know, Dave Jones: yeah, we got some Guess pay pals this week? We got

1:45:02

Buzzsprout our friends over there with $1,000 monthly

1:45:08

donation Unknown: Sakala 20 is played on EMTALA.

1:45:14

Adam Curry: Thank you so much, guys. That's I mean, Trent.

1:45:17

Dave Jones: You're trying to get them back. Yes. Still trying to get them back back on the show can't Yeah, but we this like,

1:45:22

scheduling chaos. So it's Adam Curry: not on our end.

1:45:27

Dave Jones: History. Yeah, we'll get them on soon. And right,

1:45:32

right behind that Marco arm and $500 Yeah, another.

1:45:37

Adam Curry: Saqqara plays only Impala. There was an interesting

1:45:42

remark on the podcast weekly review that we don't give Marco,

1:45:46

any shit for not adding any podcasting 2.0 features that I'm

1:45:53

paraphrasing. And I would say that the genesis of what Dave

1:45:58

and I are doing here is the podcast index, which is to keep

1:46:03

a free and open ecosystem for podcasting, specifically podcast

1:46:08

apps. Marco supports us with not just treasure but time and

1:46:12

talent, we have a correct me if I'm wrong, we have a

1:46:15

synchronization with his database and our database. And

1:46:18

he uses us as a fallback. And whenever he finds something we

1:46:22

don't have he automatically plugs it in. And, you know,

1:46:26

there's all these features that just came along, and we've just

1:46:29

stuck it in for the ride. I mean, that was not anything in

1:46:32

our initial mission statement. You know, for the same reason,

1:46:37

I'm sure. Podcast weekly review doesn't call out Buzzsprout for

1:46:41

not adding several features. We appreciate Marcos support.

1:46:46

Dave Jones: Well, I'm not going to call out any indie app

1:46:48

developer for anything. I can't, I can't run their business, and

1:46:52

I can't tell them what to do. But he also Yeah, he provides

1:46:56

time with syncing and giving us a constant stream of new feeds.

1:47:01

And he donates $500 a month. Yeah. So that his own

1:47:06

competitors can have an index to use. I mean, it's like it's

1:47:09

really hard to criticize that. Exactly. I mean, it's, I don't

1:47:13

know what to say. I mean, you Adam Curry: said exactly that. No, you're exactly right. I

1:47:17

mean, it's. And yes, he's funding his own competition. So

1:47:21

that's beautiful. I love that. Yeah. kawaman where

1:47:24

Dave Jones: his mouth is, yes. Really hard to criticize

1:47:26

anything about that in front end in likewise, Franco Celerio $100

1:47:31

on when Adam Curry: you hit him a big ball to Sakala

1:47:34

Unknown: 20 blades on him Paula

1:47:37

Dave Jones: cat from CAST ematic. And you just says thank

1:47:40

you. I mean, there's another there's another app developer,

1:47:42

giving money to the index to support us so that other app

1:47:46

developers, one of which I emailed with yesterday, who's

1:47:50

creating a sermon like religious podcast based app. Oh, and he's

1:47:57

trying to figure out, you know, what, how to use the index, and

1:48:00

I've been helping him. Oh, cool. And it's like, cool. You know,

1:48:04

there's, there's Marco and Franco, and Mitch and all the

1:48:10

all these app developers that are providing the money to fund

1:48:13

the index to help other people who can't afford it, who are

1:48:16

just starting out, and I just think that's, I mean, that's

1:48:19

great. Yes. And let's see, we got Oh, Thomas homestead

1:48:24

homestead media $25 And he says, caught my four year old running

1:48:29

full speed with an open pair of scissors. Yeah, that was a good

1:48:31

reminder to sense of value. Yes.

1:48:34

Keep up the great work Thomas. Adam Curry: Nothing like teaching your kid Good. Good.

1:48:38

Good practices early on. Dave Jones: Yeah. Let's see we got some boosts we got. Thank

1:48:44

you, Thomas. De Jackson. The legend 2000 says three true

1:48:49

fans. Oh, great tune. Yeah, sure which to

1:48:54

Adam Curry: do which Sam we need some to V record info brother. I

1:48:58

know he's working on it. Dave Jones: Pot home berry or buddy over there. 20,000 SAS

1:49:03

through podcasts guru says great timing. Live is currently in

1:49:06

beta for select users and pod home it's almost ready for the

1:49:09

mainstream including an ice cast server hosted by adding the chat

1:49:14

tag is something that will make this a more complete feature.

1:49:17

Yes. Nice. Yep. Nice. We didn't even talk about that a funnel as

1:49:21

the chat tag over the past weekend so no,

1:49:24

Adam Curry: I saw it you asked for eyes on I looked at it and

1:49:26

went okay, I looked at it I hope it's okay.

1:49:29

Dave Jones: We had what I asked for feedback and I got one reply

1:49:33

which was Barry saying looks good. I consider that to be

1:49:39

successful deployment. Yes. Okay, good. Our W Nash 2000 SATs

1:49:44

through fountain he says still missing the Delta Sierra.

1:49:48

Adam Curry: Well, to Delta share, Charlie, is that what he

1:49:51

means? Dave Jones: A decent Delta Sierra I'm not sure what he

1:49:55

means. Adam Curry: Well, it used to be the daily source code was also

1:49:58

known as the Delta Share. Charlie I'm not sure what the

1:50:01

delta shear is. Dave Jones: I don't know. Gene been 2222 He says another great

1:50:08

boardroom discussion Keep up the good work well Thank you Jean

1:50:11

for your monitoring and all everything else you do. Oh,

1:50:14

there's elite boost from Gene 137 to cast ematic he says also

1:50:17

the fountain boost bought in the splits it seems broken it's

1:50:20

showing no route Adam Curry: that may be something I have to change me

1:50:24

right down my list because they changed the LG nodata Yeah, I

1:50:29

think I have to change that. Okay, found some boost.

1:50:33

Dave Jones: We got Oscar coming up here in the next good weeks

1:50:37

and we're gonna discuss a lot of that type of stuff with him

1:50:40

good. Kevin Bay 50,000 says Oh, thank you guys. God verse. Says,

1:50:45

Dave, watch Guys and Dolls if you haven't seen it yet. One of

1:50:48

my favorite musicals of all time Sinatra and Brando is a classic.

1:50:52

i We watched it three weeks ago. And and and I did technical

1:50:59

theater, the lighting for guys and dolls when I was in high

1:51:02

school. Adam Curry: Did you like it? So did you like the music? Great,

1:51:06

Dave Jones: great musical. Adam Curry: What are you watching this week? Dave Jones: Let's see. This week. We watched we actually we

1:51:13

watch something that wasn't a musical. We watched. Oh, no. We

1:51:18

watched Roman Holiday be seen that movie. Ah. Is that where

1:51:23

you pick and who's the who's the Breakfast at Tiffany's?

1:51:30

Adam Curry: Audrey Hepburn? Audrey Hepburn? Sure. I've seen

1:51:35

it at some point. Yes, she's Dave Jones: the British princess who goes to

1:51:40

Adam Curry: they wind up riding around on Vesper scooters a lot.

1:51:43

Yeah, okay. I've seen it Dave Jones: as a good movie, but then we also we also watched

1:51:50

Julie Andrews in Sound of Music. We're about halfway through that

1:51:53

sound of Adam Curry: music. I love that. I can watch that over and over

1:51:57

again. Dave Jones: Julie Andrews playing the guitar that's now

1:52:01

Adam Curry: that part I could do without but I just like the you

1:52:04

know, like when they're running from the Nazis, and they're all

1:52:07

hiding. It was spooky and scary when I saw it as a kid and I

1:52:10

still love it. Dave Jones: Also bonus points for using the phrase

1:52:14

flibbertigibbet which is always a good turn Liberty Jouvet. Yes.

1:52:19

Are you are you a fan of musicals? Benjamin? Yeah. Is are

1:52:27

their French or their French? They're

1:52:29

Adam Curry: miserable. And baby. Lamb is

1:52:33

Benjamin Bellamy: true. Yeah, many of them are. Regarding

1:52:38

movies. Check Domi if you heard of him was very famous. And he

1:52:46

inspired like lala land. And really

1:52:50

Adam Curry: interesting. When I was a kid, when I was 13 or 12.

1:52:57

I live in a very small village outside of Amsterdam. And on

1:52:59

Sundays, they would have a movie for the kids at like the kind of

1:53:06

town hall ish was what it was. And the movies I liked the most

1:53:10

were Louie, Louie funa Yeah, and I mean, he had the like the the

1:53:16

crazy Citro n ds that I think that thing could fly. If I

1:53:21

remember if I recall, did you ever watch any of those movies?

1:53:24

Louis? Benjamin Bellamy: Yeah, yeah, sure. Sure. That very famous,

1:53:27

probably most famous. funny movies in France. Yeah.

1:53:33

Dave Jones: The only a somehow French is it. Francoise Hardy.

1:53:38

As she was dubbed in my ear, she she ended up in my Spotify

1:53:42

playlist and I'm, I'm a huge fan. Now. I don't know what

1:53:45

she's saying. But yeah, we need you to send me some French

1:53:51

musicals because my wife has been learned. She's, oh, she

1:53:54

speaks French. She speaks French very well. And she's been

1:53:58

learning French for years now. And she's, she's very, she

1:54:02

speaks it very well. So but she was just saying today that she

1:54:06

wants to do a more immersive French on Fridays. And so she

1:54:10

wants to basically start listening to French podcasts.

1:54:14

Basically everything French on Fridays so that she can get get

1:54:18

deeper into it. And need some musicals for I think she would

1:54:22

like dicey Benjamin Bellamy: Stinky Cheese. Cheese. Yeah, she got she can

1:54:26

watch crystal Funabashi movies. Record good.

1:54:32

Dave Jones: Let's see we get say that was Kevin Bay. Thank you.

1:54:35

Kevin guna Gomez into pod verse 3456 sets congrats with the

1:54:40

impressive stats guys. Hopefully we can get over the 69 million

1:54:44

sets in 2024. Thank you, man, Franco. Oh, this is Frank. Yeah,

1:54:49

this is Franco from cast. ematic 10,000 says coming in, cat suck.

1:54:54

You have a chance go see Rocky Horror Show hands down my

1:54:57

favorite musical Cats.

1:55:00

Adam Curry: And I hate the animal cats. He just hates the

1:55:02

musical Cats. Yes. Yeah, Dave Jones: I agree. Thank you, Frank. Ah, sir Brown of London

1:55:07

11 948 Mega Israel boost cast ematic he says definitely saw

1:55:12

Mamma Mia in the West End to Oh, yeah. No, I think it originated

1:55:18

there. Maybe a comic strip blogger that delimiter 30,000

1:55:22

Different and he says, How do you Dave and Adam? Oh boy, hold

1:55:27

on to your dentures for grumpy old Ben's podcast. Join our two

1:55:30

grumpy hosts Darren, the unemployed O'Neill from the

1:55:34

windy city of Chicago and Ryan, the Amazon delivery driver

1:55:38

bemrose from the land of caffeine and rain Seattle, as

1:55:42

they dive headfirst into the madness of today's world from

1:55:45

their cozy bunkers. It's like listening to Statler and Waldorf

1:55:48

from the Muppets, but with sarcasm and less felt more info

1:55:53

www dot grumpy old bands.com Yo CSB Thank

1:55:56

Adam Curry: you comics for Blogger always promoting other

1:55:59

podcasts that's really appreciated. That wasn't that

1:56:02

should have had an add tag Dave Jones: add tag next time CSP funny news your use chat GPT

1:56:08

to make it whenever Adam Curry: whenever people do like adds in value for value

1:56:13

notes. It didn't never bothers me. Dave Jones: No, not me. Never. It's funny because they're fun.

1:56:19

They take they care. Yeah, they like it is personal. And

1:56:22

Adam Curry: we don't have to wait for the advertising company. Just send us a check. You know, it's immediate.

1:56:28

Dave Jones: It doesn't have to it doesn't break in halfway through a word.

1:56:31

Adam Curry: Yes. And we don't have to have a meeting with the

1:56:33

client. I love it. It's really good. It's very good.

1:56:36

Dave Jones: We got some monthly see. We got we got Satan's law

1:56:39

your five $5 from Down Under, which seems appropriate.

1:56:43

Adam Curry: I have not listened to his episode yet. I've been

1:56:47

resisting I've been resisting Satan.

1:56:51

Dave Jones: I just I just love that Satan's lawyer lives down

1:56:53

under this. Thanks so much. Michael Gagan $5 Charles current

1:56:59

$5 Thank you guys. James Sullivan. $10 Christopher Raymer

1:57:03

$10 Sean McCune $20 Think shone. Cohen glotzbach Which I'm sure

1:57:08

I've also mispronounced 1000 times please tell me if I'm

1:57:11

wrong. $5 Kevin Bay $3.81 from the 2.0 Endowment Fund. Thank

1:57:16

you. Thank you. And Jordan Dunnville $10

1:57:21

Adam Curry: Wow, good reads Dave. Oh, and right on time

1:57:28

beautiful. It now being? What is it? 10? No. 930 in Paris, the

1:57:35

beautiful lights of Paris over the sand as lovers stroll by the

1:57:39

waterway. Can you see any of that where you are?

1:57:44

Benjamin Bellamy: No, because I had to shut down the corroding

1:57:47

to make sure there is no April. So I see nothing.

1:57:51

Dave Jones: Then just cinder blocks and calling in plaster.

1:57:54

Benjamin, we Adam Curry: appreciate you so much, man. You've been you've

1:57:57

been at this very, very early in the game. Well, as you said, we

1:58:00

kind of start at the same time. And you've just been a great

1:58:04

supporter and we love what you do with Casta bot. One last

1:58:07

question I had for you Has there ever been or have you considered

1:58:10

Docker rising this and getting it onto Umbral or my preference

1:58:14

start nine Benjamin Bellamy: it is Deckard. I think you can install custom

1:58:21

pod on the you know host Docker we have a Kubernetes

1:58:26

installation and Sybil scraped everything so we have a

1:58:33

wonderful community doing all that stuff borrows so we don't

1:58:38

have to do and regarding the umbrella I think it's I don't

1:58:45

know if someone did it but there there are official Docker images

1:58:50

so should be pretty easy to do.

1:58:53

Adam Curry: If anyone out there as it knows what to do, I mean

1:58:57

if you start nine I would love to have cast the pot and start

1:59:01

nine because they're going to do open networking soon so you

1:59:05

won't have to deal with just Tor and I and I I would love to try

1:59:09

that out here at home so if anyone wants to take that

1:59:11

Dockerized stuff and package it up which is a little bit beyond

1:59:13

my paygrade I think it'd be great I will promote it that's

1:59:16

for sure. Dave Jones: Cast a pod on our on the on the on the umbrella or

1:59:21

the start nine plus IPFS podcasting for distribution

1:59:24

Adam Curry: really a great win, win win win it will be

1:59:27

phenomenal. Absolutely. Benjamin Bellamy: PFS won't be that easy. On the other hand,

1:59:32

yeah, Adam Curry: we already have IPFS podcasting.

1:59:35

Dave Jones: It already works you know Yeah, so Adam Curry: where are you been? Man

1:59:43

Dave Jones: we got it. Have you Yeah, have you seen that working

1:59:47

been? Benjamin Bellamy: I had a quick look.

1:59:52

Dave Jones: Yeah, you check it out. It's it's good but like for

1:59:55

for somebody who's hosting out of their house and can't afford

1:59:59

it would just fall down on the, you know, the bandwidth demand.

2:00:03

That's, that's a great solution. Yeah.

2:00:07

Benjamin Bellamy: The thing is, it requires quite a bunch of

2:00:13

refactoring castparts which is why we had a deeper look into

2:00:19

that yet. Dave Jones: So with Pell You mean for you mean to put the

2:00:22

prefix in? Yeah. Oh, I see what you mean. Okay. Yeah. That makes

2:00:29

it well, I guess the Yeah. Because you're, you're uploading

2:00:31

directly, okay. Yes. What you make is you'd have to, you'd

2:00:35

have to put the D enclosure on a CDN and then put the prefix in.

2:00:39

Yeah, we'd have Benjamin Bellamy: to change some stuff. First. Yeah. But we'll

2:00:44

get there. Adam Curry: No doubt. I mean, this is what's so beautiful.

2:00:47

It's like there's no rush. We'll get there. When we get there.

2:00:50

The podcast is gonna be around for a long after we're gone.

2:00:54

That's the part that I love, love knowing. And

2:00:57

Dave Jones: don't ever feel bad or apologize for having a long

2:01:00

to do list. Because if your to do list is too short, that's

2:01:03

when you burn out. Adam Curry: All right, gentlemen, Benjamin. Thank you

2:01:08

very much. We appreciate you. Benjamin Bellamy: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'd like

2:01:12

to add two things. If, of course, follow me of course.

2:01:17

First, there's one subject that we couldn't talk about is the

2:01:21

podcasting 2.0 logo, so we'll have to do that some other time.

2:01:26

Because Daniel JD always asked me if I could have a look and

2:01:31

make a nice logo for this. I don't know if you could see the

2:01:35

thread on Mastodon I have not Yeah. And last I do eat snails

2:01:46

and frogs Adam Curry: you know what we actually eat snails here in

2:01:52

Texas. It a Bavarian restaurant Believe it or not. So I'm with

2:01:57

you on that. I'd like to ask our go the frog we've

2:02:00

Dave Jones: been we've been in frogs and Alabama Yeah. Before a

2:02:03

year before Adam Curry: France Yes. Exactly. Oh

2:02:06

Dave Jones: yeah. With frog frog gig frog Gagan is a Do you know

2:02:10

frog Gagan? Do you know that bit now? Frog gigging is you take a

2:02:16

little it's like a spear and it has like a trident on the end of

2:02:20

it with three prongs. Yeah, you get frog gig and then you get

2:02:25

you go and you just pop one of them in great and throw them all

2:02:29

in a bucket and then you come back and cut their legs off and eat them.

2:02:32

Adam Curry: See See we're not barbarians here. No. I knew that

2:02:38

we get we eat snails we eat frog we also eat squirrels. But

2:02:42

that's maybe for the foreign for another another episode. We have

2:02:47

been known to eat a squirrel or two roadkill. Roadkill frog

2:02:51

Gigan Alright everybody. Thank you so much, brother, Dave.

2:02:54

Thank you have a great weekend, my brother and don't worry about

2:02:57

that to do list. I'll see you guys okay. Viva la que viva la

2:03:02

podcast. Thank you very much Benjamin. We love you, man. And

2:03:06

of you too. Thank you very much to everybody in the chat room,

2:03:09

which is known as the boardroom we convert it. We'll be back

2:03:12

next week with another episode of podcasting 2.0.

2:03:33

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2:03:40

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