0:00

Podcasting 2.0 for March 1st, 2024, episode 169. We've

0:05

got Wi-Fi and web apps. Well,

0:09

hello, everybody. Welcome once again. It is

0:11

Friday. That means it's time for an

0:13

official board meeting. That's right. Podcasting

0:16

2.0. It's not just 2.0. It's

0:19

all of podcasting. It all

0:21

goes down here. We tell

0:23

you what's going on at

0:25

podcastindex.org, podcasting2.org, podcastindex.social. Yes, it's the

0:27

boardroom that actually replies to

0:29

your Boostergrams. I'm Adam Curry here

0:32

in the heart of the Texas

0:34

Hill Country and in Alabama, the

0:36

only man you want in your

0:38

life for those warm migration mornings.

0:40

Say hello to my friend on

0:42

the other end. Ladies and gentlemen,

0:44

Mr. Dave Jones. It's

0:47

always great to have a

0:50

log of events that tell

0:52

you at

0:54

the exact same timestamp, server

0:57

booted. Server did not boot.

1:00

Like that must have been

1:02

scary this morning when that happened. Well,

1:05

so this has been coming for a while.

1:08

The live migration of our main database is

1:10

the biggest VM we have. It's

1:13

been coming for a while. So they give what they do is

1:15

they give you a heads up. They're

1:17

like, heads up, we're going to live migrate.

1:19

Literally like heads up, heads up. No, bring it,

1:21

bring it boys, heads up. Yeah, that that quick.

1:23

OK, I gotcha. We're going

1:26

to live migrate your this

1:29

this instance, and I look at

1:31

the instance name, I'm like, oh, crap, that's the database.

1:34

We're going to live migrate this on March the

1:36

1st. And

1:38

if at any time before then, when

1:40

you feel froggy, you

1:42

can enter the live

1:45

migration, excuse me, the warm migration queue yourself.

1:47

You can you can choose to enter the

1:49

queue. If you don't, by this time

1:52

on this day, March 1st, you're

1:54

we're going to do it. We're going to do it for you. And

1:56

so, oh, no, of course, I've been putting this

1:58

off. And

2:01

like any good that how long for how long

2:03

have you been putting it off? Oh two weeks

2:07

And then I was like and I got

2:09

a notice yesterday you got 15 hours left.

2:11

So what happens if you don't comply Yeah,

2:15

they just want they just do it for you and you get what

2:17

you get I mean like you don't you're not you're not aware I

2:19

could have gone to sleep last night and if it happened in the

2:21

middle of the night They would have just done it and it would

2:23

have been like okay. Well, I hope it works So

2:25

I woke up this morning. I had like an hour

2:28

left before entering the queue Hmm,

2:30

and so I was like well And

2:34

I was lit I was literally sitting

2:36

on the toilet with the scroll with

2:38

with the doom scroller Yeah,

2:43

and I was like well Let's

2:45

just let's just rip the cord off this thing.

2:47

Let's just see how this happens Oh my and I'm

2:49

like and I log into Linode on the scroll

2:51

on the toilet scroller and

2:53

hit migrate and Man,

2:56

like you couldn't even head over to a command

2:58

line if you wanted to No,

3:00

no, we'll see. I grabbed the Mac as soon

3:02

as I woke up this morning. I grabbed my laptop and And

3:06

it was out of battery so yeah,

3:10

and I was like well, I would have liked to

3:12

have done this from a laptop but I'll

3:14

just I'll just do it later and then I'm

3:17

on the toilet scroller and I'm looking and it's

3:19

like you have an hour left I was like

3:21

crap. Well, oh well literally Okay,

3:25

well login from Linode on

3:28

Safari mobile and And

3:30

I hit that and I was like, well, let's just

3:32

do it. What what the heck you only YOLO, you

3:34

know And

3:37

it worked and so yeah, and so I hit it and

3:40

then I was like well You

3:42

know, it's probably got it. I'm assuming this.

3:44

Okay, this is a they're calling it a

3:46

warm migration. So I'm assuming That

3:49

this is similar in this has

3:51

to be similar in some It

3:55

sounds icky it's just a warm migration

3:57

just sounds it doesn't sound rate.

4:01

It's like a warm dish rag or

4:04

something. Luke warm, wet, dish rag in

4:06

your face in the morning, a warm

4:08

migration. I don't like the term. It's

4:10

not great marketing. What

4:14

is the...

4:17

It's not a migrant, it's a

4:19

traveler. It's a warm traveler. A newcomer.

4:22

A newcomer. It's a warm

4:25

newcomer. There you go. A

4:27

moist migration though. Let's not do that. A

4:31

moist migration. Beautiful. I'm

4:37

assuming that this technology, this

4:39

warm migration technology is

4:42

similar to VMware. I'm thinking... I

4:44

think that VMware may have invented

4:46

this. So here's... Will you

4:48

surprise me? Yeah, here's

4:50

the basics is you

4:53

have a virtual machine and

4:55

the virtual machine, it does...

5:01

It copies the disk. So for

5:03

a virtual machine, you have basically

5:05

the RAM, you have the memory state

5:09

and then you have the disk state. So it starts...

5:11

It takes a snapshot, copies

5:13

all of the

5:15

disk over to the other host,

5:19

then copies all of the memory over

5:21

to the other host, then

5:24

does what they call a quiescence

5:27

or a stun. They'll

5:29

stun the server which means

5:31

pause it, copy

5:35

the delta of memory and the delta of

5:37

disk that has changed since the

5:39

stun, since the snapshot and

5:41

then flip

5:44

the processing power from one host to the

5:46

other because this is all shared story. Right.

5:49

And so this should happen within what, 15

5:52

seconds? Is that the idea? Well

5:54

on a local VMware system, I

5:56

mean this is... It's almost instantaneous.

5:59

It's microsoft. Right this

6:01

year not my it's milliseconds the

6:04

Sun may may take less than one

6:06

second The users don't even know that

6:08

any of this is happening But

6:10

they're moving from data center to data center. So

6:12

this is a long way. It's much longer. Yeah.

6:14

Yeah Yeah, and and does DNS come into play

6:16

with all this as well. I don't

6:19

think so No, I think they I think they're DNS.

6:21

They got a back all between their their data centers.

6:24

Yeah. Yeah So

6:26

when you whenever you when I see a stun that's

6:28

gonna take up to a minute, I'm like, oh That's

6:32

not great. Right, you know So

6:34

I was you know I

6:36

was waiting on this thing to start and I thought well, you know

6:38

I better just you'll probably great if

6:40

there was not very many rights going on

6:43

on the database because that's just you're asking

6:45

for more failure If

6:47

there's heavy right all the time on

6:49

our database. Yeah It's very

6:51

right heavy because of the amount of feeds

6:54

were aggregated when it comes to writing we're

6:56

heavy heavy writing heavy writing,

6:59

yeah, yes and

7:02

So I just shut down all the aggregators shut down

7:04

the pod ping watcher all that kind of stuff and

7:07

like, okay radio silence on the rights and Then

7:10

wait and hope and just cross your fingers and

7:13

then it and then John spur a lot

7:15

posted Okay, it's that he's like, you

7:17

know API errors now. No Okay,

7:20

thank you. Yeah for a minute or two.

7:22

Yeah. Mm-hmm. And as I go in I'm

7:24

like check the log And I'm

7:26

still in the toilet. So I check the log and

7:28

I'm like Because now I'm enraptured

7:30

by this thing. I can't you know, I can't get

7:32

off the pot. I'm like, well I

7:35

look at I look at the log and it says You

7:39

can't it says a server it says

7:41

server booted but then right

7:43

after that It says

7:45

server did not boot or server failed

7:47

to boot Crap,

7:50

I'm like, oh man now I'm gonna have to now I'm

7:53

gonna have to like get up. It's

7:55

so And

7:58

then and then I look but I look at

8:00

the status and it says the VM is running. I'm

8:02

like, okay. And then I'm like,

8:04

oh yeah, check the site, I flip over, site's

8:07

working, API looks like it's working, I'm like,

8:09

I guess we're good, I don't know. And

8:13

then Gene Bean, Gene

8:16

Liverman says, he's like, oh yeah, I had

8:18

the same thing happen to me in the

8:20

Atlanta data center and it told me the

8:22

same thing. I'm like, oh, come on, Linode,

8:25

do better than this. Anyway,

8:27

that was my toilet adventure for this

8:29

morning. Well, and here's my question. Does

8:33

your wife like mine sometimes knock on the door and

8:35

go, what are you doing in

8:37

there? Do you

8:39

ever get that? You've

8:41

been in there a long time, maybe I migrate a

8:44

server, hold on. Oh, that's

8:46

what you're calling it, huh? From

8:49

now on, David got to go migrate a

8:51

server. All right, I'm writing that down. This

8:53

is our new code. I'm

8:57

on the command line. Give me a second. Hey,

9:02

before we got a lot going

9:04

on in the board meeting today, hello boardroom, I

9:06

see everybody there, ITBR. Rest

9:09

in peace, Bob Heil. He

9:11

passed away today. Oh, this is Gene.

9:14

Bob Heil, and I would say that

9:16

in the very early days of podcasting,

9:19

this was before the

9:23

SMB7, everybody had to have

9:26

a Heil PR40. The

9:29

Heil PR, I still have one. In

9:31

fact, it's hooked up. Tina

9:34

uses that one, it sounds great in her voice. Really?

9:37

Yeah. And Bob Heil,

9:40

he was famous

9:42

for ham radio microphones

9:44

and headphones and

9:47

did a lot of broadcast stuff. So,

9:49

he passed away. He said what we call SK,

9:52

silent TV. That's a shame. Silent key. Yes.

9:55

So, that's a shame. The

9:58

PR40, that's... It's

10:00

a great mic. It's not a mic

10:02

a lot of people can use in their house though, is it?

10:05

No, yeah, it is. No, it's it's it's a

10:07

it's a spitter. It's a top-end spitter It

10:11

doesn't it just pick up everything? No world. No,

10:13

no, no, no. No, in fact, I'll open it

10:15

right now Let me see if I open it

10:17

up over here. Let's see what happens It's

10:20

here. It's wide open and I'll I'll

10:23

hit it there. No, you don't hear anything.

10:26

Oh, I thought it was a cardioid I thought it was like a

10:28

Or like a not a cardioid like

10:31

a ribbon mic. No, no, no, no, no. It's

10:33

a spitter. It's a front-end spitter you

10:35

know even has a people

10:37

put a You know, it has

10:39

a little attachment for a windscreen, but I've never

10:41

used the windscreen with it. It's great. It's a

10:43

great mic Yeah, okay. Yeah, I thought it was

10:46

too noisy for a normal normal person and

10:48

and then the I was very

10:50

excited today Like super

10:52

excited. I could not believe how excited

10:54

asked me how excited I was How

10:58

excited were you? Yeah, I was super duper

11:00

excited We're

11:03

getting I get the feel for this

11:05

yeah, I'm starting to understand Tony Kavana

11:07

I Tony has

11:10

a podcast index social ID. I'm not sure

11:12

where Tony comes from or what Tony does

11:15

Tony see Tony see yeah, what is Tony

11:17

CD? All I

11:20

don't know. I follow him on on mastodon and

11:22

I've never fully understood what it what he does Well,

11:24

he has an account on our server and

11:27

what he has done is he discovered that

11:29

Rumble video platform rumble

11:31

now has RSS fees with

11:34

mp4 enclosures This

11:38

was this announced anywhere well So

11:42

I immediately taken him because I know

11:44

mo Mirrors his

11:46

stuff to rumble because he's a YouTube guy

11:48

still he's waiting and

11:50

he says no He says I received an email

11:52

from them a couple weeks ago So

11:55

apparently if you go into I don't have a rumble

11:57

account But if you go into your rumble account and

11:59

you go into the Rumble Studio. I don't

12:01

know if you can just get the URL from

12:03

there or if you have to enable it, but

12:07

without asking him, I added Tony

12:09

C's Rumble feed to the index

12:11

and was

12:14

able to pull it right up on Podcast

12:16

Guru. Video works perfectly. I mean

12:19

this is a YouTube killer. Yeah,

12:23

oh for sure. Podverse

12:25

plays video. I

12:28

mean Apple podcast. I mean, I don't know. I mean

12:30

Apple podcast. That's video. Yeah. It doesn't

12:32

do, you know, that type of thing. But

12:34

here's the cool thing. With the Podcaster Wallet

12:36

or one of the partner apps, you

12:38

can now do value for value video. Oh

12:42

yeah. Right through Rumble. I mean, this

12:44

is, this blows my

12:46

mind. I can't believe they did this. This

12:48

is exactly what YouTube should be doing. Yeah,

12:51

YouTube's doing the opposite. They're taking farts a

12:53

feet away. They're sucking them in and chomping

12:56

them up. Their teeth are gassing on the

12:58

RSS feeds. This is,

13:00

I mean, I'm just blown away by it.

13:02

I don't

13:04

understand. I mean, I understand what

13:06

they've done, but I don't know what

13:08

their business, their public companies. I don't know what their

13:10

business model is. I have no idea how that works,

13:13

but go Rumble. Yeah,

13:16

I don't know what their business model is either.

13:18

I mean, how do they make money? Well they

13:20

went public and everyone got a whole bunch of

13:22

money and they're happy. I don't care. They

13:25

bought locals. I believe they acquired locals

13:28

and I think it's advertising. I think they have

13:31

advertising on the website. But

13:33

the revenue share type thing with

13:36

the? Likely. I mean, Rumble has

13:38

Russell Brand. It has a lot of pretty big

13:41

names they brought over to their platform. So they're

13:43

paying people to do something. And

13:46

so, So, Greenwald went to Rumble.

13:49

Yeah. Then left and went

13:51

to Locals and then, Well, Locals, yeah, was

13:53

acquired. Exactly. He was back with Rumble. But

13:56

that's a big deal. I mean,

13:58

that's so Oh, it was like,

14:00

okay, let's get it

14:03

going. And I wonder how

14:05

they publish their live stuff. I'm

14:08

sure they're not doing a lit tag, obviously. Have

14:12

you looked at the fade? Like have you looked at

14:15

the XML of the fade? I have. Does

14:17

it declare anything interesting at

14:20

the top of itself? I

14:23

did not look for declarations. I

14:25

don't know if it declared a gender. Let

14:27

me see. What

14:30

is his thing name? Tony

14:34

C. Well, he posted the

14:36

link on the Mastodon. And

14:38

he is Tony... Where

14:42

is he? He's

14:46

Rock Flux on the... Rock

14:48

Flux? Rock Flux. R-O-C-K-F-L-U-X. Yeah,

14:51

let me see. I know I replied so let me

14:53

see if I can find it. There he is, Rock

14:55

Flux. I got that. I got Flux. He got the

14:57

feed. I got the feed. And we'll see what is... You

14:59

got the feed. You got the feed. It's a

15:02

big feed. It's a huge feed. So

15:04

that's... There's... We

15:07

need to change. That's... No, but you

15:09

know what? There's someone inside Rumble, but they're not. They're not. They're

15:11

not. They're not. They're not.

15:14

They're not. They're not. You've got

15:16

to change. They're not.

15:18

They're not. They're not. They're not.

15:21

There was someone inside Rumble who

15:24

switched on and somehow,

15:27

I don't think management

15:30

went, you know, we need to

15:32

have RSS feeds. Yeah,

15:34

that wasn't a management issue. That

15:37

was not a top down decision. I was not

15:39

thinking that. So yeah, it's very simple. It's just

15:41

got the basics. But maybe it wasn't a decision.

15:44

I mean they announced it in their email. So

15:48

boy, let's find out who's working over there

15:50

at Rumble and let's see if we can

15:52

get them to declare some namespace stuff. Yeah,

15:55

there's got to be a sad man that can drop that in

15:57

the header. There's always a dude

15:59

named Ben. somewhere who can talk

16:01

to. Tony Caravan. Yeah.

16:06

I just think it's a Caravan or Kavana? I

16:09

thought it was Caravan. Is it Caravan? Caravan.

16:12

Caravan. Tony Caravan. Tony

16:14

Caravan. All right. I'm

16:16

just excited by that. There's

16:19

some breaking news. Looks like John Spurlock

16:21

just posted that Apple is walking back

16:24

the decision to kill PWAs.

16:26

You're up. I

16:29

can hear Sam Sethi pouring another

16:31

glass of wine. Yeah.

16:36

He called spicy COVID evidently because this

16:38

is... He was fired

16:40

up. Taylor Swift COVID is what he said he

16:42

had. Yeah. He was fired up

16:45

about... I like this. I like spicy Sam.

16:47

That was a great rant. Why

16:51

were they going to kill... I never understood why they

16:53

were going to kill off PWAs. I

16:56

don't know if they're full. I don't think they ever

16:58

said. I mean people are just trying to infer

17:00

but I don't think they ever actually said. The

17:02

thing that makes me laugh is we get spicy

17:05

Sam. He's all pissed off

17:07

about the three trillion dollar company. Bro,

17:10

we knew this day was coming

17:12

when Apple opened the App Store. We knew

17:14

this day was coming. We knew

17:16

it. These days would

17:18

be here, proprietary App Stores. It's

17:21

like really are we surprised? Yeah.

17:25

I've avoided the whole Apple EU

17:27

thing because it's just the whole

17:29

thing is a complete joke. It's

17:32

a complete joke. I mean, I don't know

17:34

if you've seen the calculators,

17:36

you know. They charge a

17:38

per user amount. If

17:44

you have an alternate App Store, they charge

17:46

a per user

17:48

install fee of like

17:51

a certain number of cents. Per user. If

17:55

you add it up, even if you had

17:58

a million users, you know, you had a million users. of

18:00

your app, even if they never

18:02

launched it, it would cost you like

18:04

millions of dollars a year. Oh,

18:07

is this a standard thing? We don't have to talk

18:09

about it. I don't care. No, it's

18:11

the whole thing to do. All I know is that when I met Steve Jobs, his

18:14

whole idea was that

18:16

the iPhone was the iPod touch and

18:19

it'll be Wi-Fi only and web apps. That

18:22

was his idea. He told me. Web

18:24

apps. He never wanted to do an app store. Now,

18:26

I'm not going to say there was a bad idea. That's

18:29

why it was genius. But

18:31

that was always the plan was

18:33

white notes, no carrier, Wi-Fi and

18:36

web apps, which

18:38

is another great show title. Well, in

18:40

the beginning, he was all

18:42

big on web

18:44

apps and he wanted to... I mean, honestly,

18:48

he did as much... The iPhone

18:50

did as much to push HTML5 as

18:52

Chrome or anything because

18:54

he wrote the famous letter

18:57

killing flash or like opposing

18:59

flash. I remember. I

19:01

remember. He was a virus. Yeah, I

19:03

remember that. It was. And

19:05

honestly, it was. It was a real problem.

19:09

And he wanted to kill flash and move every...

19:13

Mobile Safari went in both feet with HTML5. I

19:17

think you can lay the progress

19:20

of HTML5 and web

19:22

standards. I think you

19:24

could say, make a good argument that that was

19:26

as much Apple's mobile Safari as

19:29

it was Chrome. I'm there. I'm

19:31

there. And then they killed

19:34

him and then that was the end of all the good stuff.

19:37

Yeah. I don't

19:39

know. I

19:42

brought a couple of clips or not brought a clip.

19:44

Yeah. I think I brought a clip and I forgot

19:46

what I even... You brought a clip in an ISO.

19:49

Yeah. Okay. I

19:53

want to... I think this

19:55

is important. Speaking of

19:57

pod news. I think

19:59

this clip... From so Paul

20:01

Therotte needs he does Windows weekly But

20:05

he also does another podcast which is called

20:07

first ring daily. What's it called?

20:09

And I'll watch it. It's called first ring daily

20:11

first ring minute first ring ring first ring Yes,

20:14

ring daily. It's an as a reference

20:16

to the old Windows 10 initial idea

20:19

of when they first released Windows

20:21

10 They were gonna move

20:23

away from From

20:26

Windows update style Releases

20:29

that everybody got to something called rings

20:31

update ring. I didn't I don't even

20:33

know about this Yeah,

20:35

it's it's it was short lived. It was

20:38

maybe a year or two That

20:40

they were gonna do these these update rings and

20:42

you could define different computers and put them in

20:44

different rings Oh, but don't computers do

20:46

that now they look for something on your

20:48

network and the update it from another computer

20:51

Yeah, that's peer-to-peer update sharing, but this

20:53

is this was like, okay.

20:56

I want to have this group of people

20:58

and they're gonna be in in the beta

21:00

ring and I'll have this group of AIs,

22:01

whatever, but anyway, it's things called

22:03

perplexity AI, they actually have a,

22:05

you know, one of the

22:07

beautiful, sorry to segue here a little

22:09

bit, but one of the beautiful complaints

22:13

or whatever about the New York Times suing open

22:15

AI was that it's not like

22:17

anyone's ever going to use open AI to

22:20

read the New York Times. And I was like,

22:23

not maybe the second, but it's

22:25

not hard to imagine this coming. So this

22:28

particular, it's perplexity. I think it's

22:30

perplexity.ai. They actually have

22:32

a newsfeed and this is where

22:34

my thing came from. And it was just a,

22:37

you know, goes out and grabs seven

22:39

or eight sources, throws together

22:41

a rewarding. And then here's your topic.

22:44

So there were seven, there was

22:46

eight, eight

22:48

paragraphs in the story, seven publications

22:50

cited. Mine constituted the first

22:52

two paragraphs. They didn't even mix and

22:54

match throughout the story. They just like, we'll still from

22:57

here, here. We'll still from here, here. And

23:00

I'll leave it as reword to

23:02

paragraphs of my story. And

23:05

some of it was quotes from Zilla. So

23:07

they intermigled what I had written. It

23:10

was not like, you know, in

23:12

the sense that you could find

23:15

similes for words and reword a

23:17

sentence. I guess that's technically a

23:19

transformation of some kind, but it's

23:21

also the laziest, theftiest version of

23:23

transformation. And you

23:25

know, yeah, I guess they cited me, but they

23:27

cited me with a one pixel high number down

23:30

in the corner. And

23:32

no one would ever go to that publication

23:34

because why bother? You just got a good summary

23:36

bit right here. You know? So

23:39

how do I feel about this? I don't know.

23:41

But this is the sad future. And

23:44

we keep talking about how fast everything's happening. We know

23:46

this. It's like knowing something is coming

23:48

is one thing, but then kind

23:50

of seeing it actually happen so

23:53

quickly is like, I don't know. It's

23:55

weird. Boo hoo. Like

24:01

this is going to happen to pod news. It's

24:04

going to happen to everything. Sounds profitable. Yeah.

24:06

To all the podcast

24:08

newsletters. They, these, these

24:11

aggregate, these LLM aggregators

24:14

are going to start sucking everybody's

24:16

content in and they're going to just reword

24:18

it and post it right back out and you get

24:20

nothing. That's the Silicon Valley

24:22

way. Give us

24:24

all your creativity and we'll give you, let me

24:27

see, nothing. And it's,

24:29

it's, and it sucks. I mean, I hate it for

24:31

that because that's the, the

24:33

dirty secret of all of this is

24:35

that none of these LLMs get

24:38

trained without content and

24:40

where does the content come from? Well,

24:42

read it's about read. It's about to

24:44

license its content to Google for this

24:46

very reason. To

24:48

Google, they're making, they're doing a deal. Yeah.

24:52

And, uh, open AI, open AI is getting

24:54

sued by everybody. Now the New York times

24:57

thing opened a floodgates. Now everybody's jumping in.

24:59

The thing that bothers me, I mean, uh,

25:01

AI, first of all, what is AI? You

25:04

know, I see a lot of stuff that's just an algorithm, which

25:06

is called AI. All right. That's fine.

25:09

Uh, you know, writing your show notes and

25:11

making your chapters. Yeah, that's a fine use.

25:13

That's okay. Um, don't use

25:15

it for searching anything. I mean, the other

25:17

day I wanted to look

25:19

up the name of the hotel that we stayed

25:22

in during the Moscow music peace festival in 1989.

25:26

And, uh, and I tried two different AI's

25:28

and they both spit back very resoundly. Oh,

25:30

it's this hotel. Here's a picture. I'm like,

25:33

nope, that's not it. And

25:36

you say, nope, that's not it. Oh, I'm sorry.

25:39

This is it. I'm like, okay. Right.

25:41

So what am I supposed to believe? No, that's

25:43

not it either. Cause I remember what the hotel

25:46

looked like. So this

25:48

is all, it's just all crap.

25:50

It's, uh, it's great for images

25:52

and, you know, for prompts,

25:54

jockeys, prompts, jockeys. Oh, there

25:56

you go. Prompt. Oh, that's a good one. There

25:59

You go. He didn't see. what's your

26:01

dumb a Pj? I'm a prop jockey Yeah,

26:03

so did it be known as he saw

26:06

the say be article about yeah and I

26:08

nice got the gloom and I just made

26:10

up all kinds of stuff. the one and

26:12

one way or the clip. Oh,

26:14

you got a gloomy know what I

26:17

mean Harrys, This is it. Last

26:19

week Googles much ballyhooed new ai tool

26:21

Gemini became a National Points on. Company

26:23

engineers built an Ai that apparently couldn't

26:25

or wouldn't for all white faces resulting

26:28

in images like Hope Fighting and Nineteen

26:30

Forty Three German Soldier The or reimagine

26:32

that's preposterous Be I inspired reboots I

26:34

assume and I about controversies involving various

26:36

famous politicians are not answer that A

26:38

kept saying when as the same question

26:40

what myself has been on a long

26:43

list of episodes about articles with titles

26:45

like The Great California Water Ice and

26:47

Glenn Beck's War and Comedy. It. Describe

26:49

racist remarks I apparently made and acquisitions

26:51

of anti semitism staff. I suppose we

26:54

describe Nestle executives as having noses like

26:56

giant penises as a nurse or happened

26:58

and of a ruling in those articles

27:00

they don't exist. google. Explain.

27:03

Seminar. Is a creativity tool and

27:05

may not always be accurate. Defense.

27:08

Diminishes. The awesome dystopian possibilities of

27:10

a eyes. But it's a funny

27:12

historical hours, a priest instance, deep faith

27:15

compromised about real people like me and

27:17

probably like you. and then a desert

27:19

boots on the ground emailed. I shared

27:22

this with you, and I sobbed and

27:24

I shared and I retired anonymously. I

27:26

work at Google and I work on

27:29

Gemini. In any case, you're wondering how

27:31

Gemini produces Black Revolutionary War generals. Another

27:33

quote: Diverse results through a layer that

27:36

rewrites your query if you write code.

27:38

So me, pictures of Vikings A will

27:40

be rewritten as. Quote: Show me a

27:43

diverse picture of Vikings including a black

27:45

male in a wheelchair. The

27:47

City says this is an actual example.

27:49

I verified by internal tooling. I verified

27:51

this person. And they are who they

27:53

say the are inside google. Ah Im

27:56

a bit and as you said the you and

27:58

surprised by this and all that is. The

28:00

lot of query rewriting going on. Oh

28:03

for sure. I mean that's how you would do

28:05

in thinking as assists, admin, The

28:07

only? that's how you desk the layer. You

28:09

would do that at. You. You

28:11

would not. Be. The because that

28:13

does would you? Do you take. Because.

28:16

Us with less what we're used to.

28:18

It was computer with sit with systems

28:20

like this. We. Were used

28:22

to taking what the user gives you.

28:25

And. Then you see that there's a. There's

28:27

a problem, like in this case is some sort

28:29

of social problem they're trying to. They're trying to

28:32

solve. But. You know

28:34

he can be even just a pure technical problem.

28:36

You just take their input in. You're like oh, I

28:38

see what you wrote. But. That's not

28:41

gonna be the see that's not. Wait,

28:43

you don't understand the way that this

28:45

is some stupid you act stupid human.

28:47

I'm A. I'm A. So these are

28:50

all little Ai rules that have to

28:52

be written worthless. Lear was go back

28:54

to Missouri. Everybody's munching is where is

28:56

that You just use the search Malaysian,

28:58

You know better. You know better what

29:01

the system is wanting. So you just

29:03

convert what they typed into something that

29:05

the system was. Ah yes, that's

29:07

exactly where you would do somehow. I

29:09

think I'm not quite sure why, but

29:11

I think Rss has a much bigger

29:14

future Them we even realize. For.

29:16

Distribution of content Now of course you.

29:18

You're a I can hook up to

29:20

an Rss feed and suck everything and

29:23

met a direct connection between a publisher.

29:25

And an end user is so

29:28

valuable. And I completely

29:30

resend on my misunderstanding of

29:33

medium equals blog. Does

29:36

past and think this is going to

29:38

be so so much bigger than we

29:40

even realize this. reasons why why Rss

29:43

feeds keep popping up. Is.

29:45

Just a make sense. It's the

29:47

distribution model of the future. And

29:52

the past and the past. Dowser is

29:54

a pass at his. But. Now

29:56

you the let me leave email like. Email

29:59

as a lesson in this is. You

30:01

know, In M. I.

30:03

Don't know why this kind of but in my head. A

30:06

Are these cars cause emails Been such an irritation

30:08

for me this week. Email is

30:10

a lesson about what technology

30:12

does to us. Like.

30:15

Addict Addict Conversation with my wife last

30:17

night about this. He I can.

30:19

I come in and I get the mail on the mailbox.

30:22

When I get home from office. Bread. The

30:24

mail of the mailboxes about five things in

30:26

their athletes are flip through these. These three

30:28

things are Johnson a minute to them in

30:30

the trash. This thing is something I need

30:33

doesn't he doesn't letter for. Doesn't piss you

30:35

off. The you get offers for credit cards

30:37

but you already have a credit card for.

30:40

Have never understood that. Yeah,

30:43

and and net. And

30:45

create a mean like in the credit card

30:47

offers just every day in office. A reason

30:49

to bit. But I can

30:52

sort that in new and three

30:54

eyes my my physical mail in

30:56

about respect forty five seconds and

30:59

but insulting somebody thought will email

31:01

is so much and think of

31:03

how much more assists and this

31:06

is. Email. As immediate else

31:08

because it will. The email

31:10

is way way worse. What

31:13

are one on? a day when I find myself

31:15

wanting on a daily basis is. For

31:17

people to only be in touch with

31:20

me via phone calls and physical mail

31:22

and I gave birth and it took

31:24

us email made every this com concept

31:26

of messaging twelve hours by which email

31:28

is ways it's a horrible invention is

31:30

horrible. So when technology comes up with

31:32

these great. Things. They're going

31:35

to make your life quote easier

31:37

a better or more efficient be

31:39

very scarce Spine always gurus Google

31:41

claims Be the Ai guys they've

31:43

got to Gemini the follow up.

31:45

The bar. And. They've got

31:47

email if you want to impress me, make

31:49

g mail better. make the A. I learned

31:51

my habits what I find really important and

31:53

tree a pre tree ah shit for me

31:55

and then remind me of stuff that have

31:58

pushed to the bottom that would be. Pressure.

32:00

But that's not gonna happen because it's not

32:02

a I. Is not an

32:04

artificial intelligence is large language models

32:06

running on expensive hardware. They have

32:08

no way to monetize. To

32:11

his ear the get as google search.

32:14

Is. Not. It. Is

32:16

still. It's. Ok

32:20

google search still. Profit.

32:22

Air still. Carries.

32:25

The same sense that it used to at

32:27

the very beginning. Beer please wait. Ranks age

32:29

range as rake in the coming weeks in

32:32

in that still there to me. don't give

32:34

your own, that is still there. but. It's

32:37

it's still living also that. Sort

32:40

of. First initial idea,

32:42

but that's really not worth the

32:44

main driver of that is and

32:46

hasn't been for a very long

32:48

time now. Google search highly. Constructed.

32:52

By Google themselves? Yeah, and.

32:55

And we are entering writing your queries

32:57

probably. Oh absolutely they are

32:59

there. they are. They are rewrite the

33:01

remember. The whole thing was certain viewed

33:03

the turn on documents came out and

33:05

they had these terms nudging silly say

33:07

whereas or. So of course

33:09

they're doing that buttons. But really, what?

33:12

It is as the big switch started to

33:14

change back when Google introduced Webmaster tools and

33:16

as soon as a new member they do.

33:19

I mean still around us. how's your weather

33:21

in this? Get a different name now but

33:23

the Webmaster Tools was where you could give

33:25

you as the owner of a website can

33:28

go when. And. Hill

33:30

Google Well as I say, how

33:32

to treat your website: Nine Moons

33:35

of Beer Site: Your site married

33:37

earlier. Millions of people did this.

33:40

Now Google has this. Deep

33:43

understanding of the structure of

33:45

millions of web sites. In.

33:48

A way that would have been

33:50

impossible with organic search. Yeah

33:52

why be in? the everybody else sucks compared to

33:54

them on the this way and and they're going

33:56

to in the problem with a I with his

33:58

L L, Il and. Is. That

34:00

they don't have that sort of model, they

34:03

can stick on hop in order to. Restructure.

34:06

The result and get rid of the stuff they don't

34:08

want you to see. right? Well, you're

34:10

not. They're having served as a rewrite Language

34:12

searches into other things and it makes it

34:14

come out. All. Weird like the gym

34:17

allies and but also this this is okay.

34:20

Two things court for. So I've been

34:22

using See or X and G more.

34:24

Often. Than I even ever thought

34:26

I would ya see your excellency familiar

34:29

with this is like a medicine and

34:31

when it was his his runs on

34:33

the start nine and you can configure

34:36

it is to or a whole bunch

34:38

of different search engines and you can

34:40

configure importance of results and it's just

34:42

it's been it's been very very accurate

34:45

for me. I really like and lots

34:47

of the we have raised a generation

34:49

of young people men and maybe a

34:52

generation half almost two generations. On

34:54

search and the goal is

34:56

information. How. Eb

34:58

is like ah search Yelp are

35:01

all sorts. This and and this

35:03

is not good This and didn't

35:05

people aren't thinking anymore, the not

35:08

researching, they're not using any critical

35:10

skills is just search gimme information.

35:13

Does that make any sense? We

35:16

we we have not yet. We

35:18

have nots builds up minds who

35:20

are inquisitive ah dubbed Ibs think.

35:23

A Beyond what the search

35:25

information is. Just okay, that's

35:27

it doesn't and we and the reason is the

35:29

and we need tricky and in the ads into

35:32

buying stuff. Is as very

35:34

bad. As. A young I T

35:36

Guys. That they.

35:39

Like if you took if you take google

35:41

away from them, they can. They literally to.

35:43

In our day, there's a dead. The dead

35:46

in Devon know basic troubleshooting skills. In

35:48

he knows like google. Google

35:50

is. For. An affront I'd

35:52

see person google is a fall back.

35:55

Where. You're like okay, look, none of the things

35:57

I'm doing makes any sense. This must be a

35:59

bug Alameda. Look and see if other

36:01

people had experienced this bug. Yeah, You

36:03

it it's a it's a last step in the

36:06

chain. not the first there but it's like okay.

36:08

Been. A problem is presents itself and as

36:10

I used to is immediately starts. Have been

36:12

trying to find a psych the didn't know

36:14

this is this is wrong as as backwards

36:17

split spring and I guess who's been waiting

36:19

very patiently and probably wants to weigh in

36:21

at least some of these topics. He

36:23

is. One of

36:25

the premier ah podcasting two

36:27

point Oh app developers are

36:29

he's up late. Well

36:32

now that late I mean he's

36:34

young so should be of stabbed

36:37

very very least Esa just launched

36:39

a fountain radio. Very exciting developments

36:41

and along with their the one

36:44

point oh version of fountain fountain.fm

36:46

ah we would like to welcome

36:48

into the boardroom the one the

36:51

only Oscar marais. Hello!

36:54

Guys out again say

36:57

oscar. Service.

36:59

Or it is Sir David Attenborough known as

37:01

with You in a Lobby for so long

37:03

To add the week I get on a

37:06

road and I enjoyed his success Oscar Matter.

37:08

It's been awhile. It

37:11

has yet as an eye on them how

37:13

long it's been by feel like we were

37:15

to have ever Cats are so glad the

37:17

on thank you so much as M S

37:20

I know the last time is you and

37:22

I've had some as some chat message things

37:24

over and over the past year or two.

37:27

ah I'm me especially with the the music

37:29

stuff this com mean I mean you want

37:31

to give subtle catch up on the on

37:33

where you are with with fountain which is

37:35

it was a whole new release and just

37:37

and tell us what you been doin and

37:40

by the way to still just. You.

37:42

And just two guys is that would fountain still

37:44

is. Yes,

37:47

I have outages of every kind

37:49

of up day as the last

37:51

six months and Grassley at the

37:54

most for now know and that.

37:57

Another developer, Tom So

37:59

meantime. You are on out together

38:01

and become a part time customizable.

38:04

Person as well. See how Sarkozy that

38:06

he had over ten thousand customer support

38:08

tickets if you believe that number. Wow

38:11

and immersed him And what is that?

38:13

What is the top? The top problem

38:15

people have as it's really something stupid.

38:19

And Know is so you know.

38:21

Totally valid feedback by the it's

38:24

always tough to do with you

38:26

know, importing opium. Our biases: six

38:28

out there has by the malformed

38:31

opium out on know malformed are

38:33

just slightly different stature. Oh.

38:36

You know an. Automatic

38:39

downloads not working on a particular

38:41

device tied that we then after

38:43

going look into or car play

38:45

Android Auto loss of stuff around

38:47

Bar and Brianna some amateur is

38:49

always buy a different car. That's

38:51

always the answer. Car play doesn't

38:54

work. You can get me to

38:56

appraise your automobile. As

39:00

a hard to test is out of a see on

39:02

a different. Car system but

39:04

no, yeah, we've been them I guess

39:06

The biggest update from fountain side. And

39:09

his last year we were working.

39:12

For. About six almost six

39:14

months on our one point

39:17

know redesign of the app

39:19

which included kind of or

39:21

or ground up redesign as

39:23

the interface. I'm in.

39:25

I'm much more spaces spaces design.

39:28

I'm an author. ribery architected a

39:30

lot of the Athens while says

39:32

most more performance unstable. And.

39:35

So rita an incredible amount of work and

39:37

said I am loans data. Source: To

39:39

one point out in December and

39:41

can't really happy. For. The resolve

39:43

the feedback thing. gray and I think. We're.

39:46

Kind of. You know we've been. We.

39:48

Lose fountain in I think bogus of

39:50

twenty twenty one on Iran and Android

39:53

must feel like with the one point

39:55

or an ace. And. Finally got

39:57

the act and a place where. People.

39:59

Come. In from in a spots fi

40:02

or Awful Focus. And if

40:04

you know feel comfortable using air and

40:06

the design and the user experience is

40:08

that. To. Master Expectation So yeah

40:11

really happy and my contact My compliments

40:13

zoom when the year the one point

40:15

no came out. And it

40:17

also felt like you took this big. Wet

40:20

ball of spaghetti code and threw

40:23

it out. In the

40:25

app just snaps it's so of a man's

40:27

really responsive. It was kind of bargain down

40:29

at the end. Their. Yeah,

40:33

exactly So yeah it wasn't as the design

40:35

and direct three. Also, Disagree.

40:37

Architected the entire out in terms

40:39

of how we manage. Your. Library,

40:42

how we do the social features

40:44

everything and yeah, as much more

40:46

performance now. so. Pretty. Healthy

40:48

on on that side of things

40:50

as well did, did you before

40:52

writing sound and had you ever

40:54

written and RSs aggregation app at?

40:59

Know and I do so never

41:01

built a mobile app is also

41:03

actually have done if I've. Spoken

41:05

about this, but. The. First version

41:08

of Found Them with Bill just

41:10

as a side project, partly because

41:12

I wanted to to man mobile

41:14

development and I'd always been kind

41:17

of interested in. In Order

41:19

and was working on not just to

41:21

see if I could you know, build

41:23

a my boss. On. And

41:25

then just that lot on his when I

41:27

came across. And guys, and probably listen to

41:29

the first episode of For Coughing to point

41:32

out. On, you know, How

41:34

about the line? Expecting unsolved. Did.

41:38

Good. Luck the on on on on this

41:40

as know that it's no coincidence them across.

41:42

This is no coincidences in in in the

41:44

Kingdom Hero Oscar that this not has not

41:46

much rather. Than

41:50

that wow that every day them.absence of

41:52

this has has if you Emmys you've

41:54

never written an Rss based. You

41:57

know, aggregators based out there?

42:00

Is. It. Seems so

42:02

simple. But. It's not time

42:04

you you end up. It's

42:06

not. It is a doesn't surprise me at all

42:08

that you would for hit a point where you're

42:10

like okay we're gonna have to re architect because

42:13

it's you learn what not to do very quickly

42:15

Discovered the over a few months to period of

42:17

time mean about that year mark and I can

42:19

imagine that you would have hit a wall and

42:22

said you know last. Okay now we

42:24

know was go back fix it and them were good.

42:28

And it's difficult to to take six

42:30

months and you know not really released

42:32

anything and and kind of rebuild a

42:34

lot faster than the ground offer I

42:36

think a rarity worth it. Having also

42:38

voices on his. You know you

42:40

have a big long list of as cases

42:42

that you end up you know having scripts to

42:45

have to deal and I'm sure you have

42:47

that need Homes has faced has been very helpful

42:49

because it means you can be a nice.

42:53

Place. To play cause you know

42:55

effects. Reporting to see that us

42:57

our remember those from the Freedom

42:59

Controller Days days. Yeah, ominous

43:01

Florida and his skin as you. I'm.

43:04

Asked are you do you see of

43:06

for people are currently working. On

43:09

her at fountain. Bomb. Night

43:12

if I recall I you are

43:14

one of the in one of

43:16

is not the only. A

43:18

two point know app that as an as gone

43:20

out and gotten funding. Do

43:22

you mind talking to social about the business side, how

43:24

things are going from? Whatever you want to let us

43:27

know. Just

43:29

saw a happy says to talk

43:31

about that. I guess you know

43:33

from a business perspective the most

43:35

important thing for us is. Our.

43:38

Revenues and. United

43:40

States. Did you a sense of that? We

43:42

we have. We do

43:45

have about four percent

43:47

of our users pay

43:49

for premium subscription. Witness.

43:52

To Ninety nine a month. And

43:54

A United were definitely a

43:56

long way away from that

43:58

being. In as. The animal

44:00

for us. And

44:02

then we also have all promotion see

44:04

so which brings and. You

44:06

know, a similar amount of revenue.

44:09

And I do think that we didn't get

44:11

to a sustainable business with the premier to

44:13

scripts and I I think one point or

44:15

is of a Cpa that. I'm

44:18

ah because I think people

44:20

are comfortable paying for. A

44:23

full Kasab based just really have

44:25

to deliver on everything from and

44:27

then also come up with the list

44:29

of premium features that. Are

44:31

going on. It's compact it up

44:33

nicely into that prevents descriptions even

44:35

now offering his description. So what

44:38

you get for that is. Transaction.

44:40

Fees reduced from four percent to one

44:43

person. You. Get unlimited transcripts

44:45

which regenerate for you on the

44:47

fly for any episode the haven't

44:49

included it. In seed.

44:53

And then you also get the and

44:55

inside those are a to the to

44:57

benefits of premium so we can still

44:59

do a lot more that to improve

45:02

things but yeah are happy so rising

45:04

else that will have one small. Is

45:07

the value for value of which

45:09

you know you take a portion

45:11

of for the app? Is that

45:13

a That is That is that

45:15

worthwhile for you know is that

45:17

working the verbally for value split.

45:21

I. Would say so. We've always

45:24

I'm. Kind. Of not prioritize

45:26

taking a big see both

45:28

on the listener side and

45:30

the for cast aside from

45:32

across the Wanna because. He.

45:35

Knows this stuff is new

45:37

and or new podcast as

45:39

that once he. Got. Involved

45:41

and I think part of the

45:44

benefit that we can sell to

45:46

them is that the see the

45:48

lower. So for example, poker says

45:50

that use the fountain wanted to

45:52

receive that soft retards them out

45:54

of four percent. That which is

45:57

you know, significantly lower than any

45:59

of the. And of traditional.

46:02

For cosmonauts Ization toes on and

46:04

so that done I would say

46:06

out of the previous description and.

46:10

Promotions and be transaction fees. The

46:12

transaction fees is definitely the lies

46:14

in terms of our revenues. I.

46:17

Do think it will be a massive

46:19

fall of the revenue. Yeah. A

46:21

long way into the future, but I think.

46:24

You. Know because. This.

46:26

Is also new and because of the

46:28

onboard and challenges of lightning i think

46:30

retry and kind of like. Minimize

46:33

as much as possible. And

46:35

by the way I really enjoyed there are

46:37

costs you on Adam the value of Algae

46:39

Round Table and I thought that. You

46:41

know, exact opposite of perfectly what we're

46:43

seeing every day when we're talking to

46:46

have been cast as which are you

46:48

know quite how far we've come as

46:50

so. Yeah. Confusing and nominating.

46:52

So northeast Ohio so goes on what

46:54

to do that and and know and

46:56

I wanted to say ab I was

46:59

so wrong about two things which you

47:01

did and I think of just real

47:03

turn out to be really really help

47:06

phone really good one is. Published

47:09

in the Booster Grams ah I.

47:11

I thought that would track from

47:13

the value from Boost Rams. I

47:15

was wrong. People really like that.

47:18

Ah B M Send the one that is

47:20

just is mind blowing every single time. I

47:22

like to promote all apps equally wherever I

47:24

can. Farm. But for

47:26

on boarding people into the whole

47:29

concept of us to toe sees.

47:32

The earning sat in fountain is just

47:34

such. it's such a big when I

47:36

have had. Him

47:38

at the but the real experiment for me

47:40

was a Korean the keeper. And

47:43

because we knew this audience would

47:45

not be at technically adept and

47:47

we kind of focused on will

47:49

get the fountain apps import your

47:51

your existing podcast intuit that's probably

47:53

spice thousand and some worked cause

47:55

you got come from us. Hands

47:58

and so has. Once they did

48:00

that like our i oh I have i

48:03

have a thousand sas after a month or

48:05

so and then they and they would send

48:07

them to us and that arm and then

48:09

and then they like well okay I feel

48:11

good now about getting my bank card. And

48:15

and buying some. In

48:17

A really is a path that

48:19

I think other apps should look

48:22

at. Me of

48:24

the air as I'm sure it's not

48:26

simple to do the new earnest Sat

48:28

per minute you're listening. I'm sure of

48:30

that. So entire architecture by itself. but

48:32

for on boarding people into these to

48:34

toshi base value for value it is

48:36

hands down a big win for guys

48:39

value podcasting and for bitcoin I guess

48:41

as well because people just get interested

48:43

in it's and and A and I'd

48:45

I'd I did not think that was

48:47

good in the beginning but it turns

48:49

I think you did Really smart enough

48:51

there. Are

48:54

times that amount of research you saying that? And

48:56

yeah, I think. You know that

48:58

the earning feature that you're right, it

49:01

is a challenge and it's a whole

49:03

nother you know, Piece. Of the

49:05

architecture both on the back end and

49:07

in the mobile app, that is incredibly

49:09

complex. And but what we

49:11

found because especially with the streaming

49:14

service time minute which is you

49:16

know the more unique aspects of

49:18

the payments that we have within

49:21

focusing to point out and it

49:23

in a way. You know

49:25

people are spending base, but it's

49:27

something about knowing that you're streaming

49:29

money every single minute that you're

49:31

listening to his British You Need

49:34

Ten and people really seem to

49:36

enjoy one of the things. I'm

49:38

always Brady. You know

49:40

excited about to see is the

49:42

percentage of all payments volume the

49:44

is from the streaming sites versus

49:46

the boost because. You know

49:48

we've done so much as he says

49:51

to. As. Success the booth

49:53

and fountain so that people can see them

49:55

but the streaming services is kind of hidden

49:57

and it's kind of past know to you

49:59

as. listener but the

50:01

volume of streaming stats is consistently

50:04

around 40-45% of the total and

50:08

I think that's really exciting just in

50:10

terms of the passive transfer

50:12

of value based on people listening. Yeah

50:14

and I like how you portray it

50:17

down at the bottom of the listening

50:19

screen where you see it. It's

50:21

an exciting thing to see. It actually makes me

50:23

feel good. I don't have to

50:25

go in and see how much that I

50:27

send or whatever. It's tallying it right there

50:30

for me. I'm like oh I feel good about you

50:32

know the value for value feedback loop is there in

50:34

my face all the time and I feel good like

50:36

yes, yes I sent 1200 sat so far. Yeah

50:39

this is good. It's worth it. You know and

50:41

it's not like I would change it if I

50:44

felt it wasn't worth it like well I

50:46

should stop listening to this because it's really not worth

50:48

it to me. I mean it's something that does to

50:50

my brain that I enjoy very much. Yeah

50:54

me too and that's you know with the

50:56

early features. We want people to you

50:59

know experience the fact that money is

51:01

moving as you listen and we felt

51:03

that was a good way but yeah.

51:06

I think I still I think not

51:08

just within fountain but within the wider

51:10

podcasting 2.0 kind of community.

51:13

I think there's still so much we

51:15

can do to surface that

51:17

feedback loop and kind of show

51:20

people what they've contributed and how

51:22

much of a difference it's

51:25

made. Yeah I still think there's so much more

51:27

we can do that. Yeah

51:30

well I mean that's perfect timing for I

51:32

don't know if you tried to

51:34

nail the release of fountain radio for

51:36

being on the show. Clearly.

51:40

Yeah I mean it's a three pointer

51:42

from half course. That

51:45

was a pretty big release yesterday I

51:48

spent some time listening to it last

51:50

night. It's like I mean it's

51:52

like Ellen it reminds me of Ellen beats

51:54

but also with the ability for me to

51:57

jump ahead in the. I

51:59

can go. I can just pay my way to the top.

52:01

And so I was doing that a couple of times last

52:03

night and throwing some stuff in there. It's

52:06

pretty genius. Like what was your –

52:09

did that kind of just come to you or did you all

52:11

draw that up in the room or how did that go? Yeah,

52:15

so it was actually quite a last-minute

52:18

thing. We

52:21

didn't put that much time into

52:23

it. But

52:25

there were a few reasons why we wanted to

52:27

do something. And at the moment, Phantom

52:30

Radio is only on web because obviously

52:32

normally with Phantom, we have to go through

52:34

app store review and approval and we have

52:36

to be quite careful about that. So

52:39

we thought we'd just throw it up on a

52:41

subdomain and we could be more kind of experimental,

52:44

try different things out and not

52:46

really worry if we break stuff

52:48

or change things. But

52:51

the reasons that we wanted to try

52:53

something like this – I guess

52:55

there's like two or three separate ones. The

52:58

first is that I think the

53:01

music podcast has been an

53:04

amazing way to introduce value

53:06

for value music to existing

53:08

podcast listeners and just new

53:10

people coming to value for

53:12

value. But

53:15

what we found is that there's

53:17

still quite a few steps from

53:19

hearing about value for value music

53:22

to actually going through finding a

53:24

music podcast that you

53:26

like the show, you like

53:30

the genres of the music and you decide to

53:32

follow it and then you find the track and

53:34

then you make through one of the apps, you

53:36

save that track and then you listen to music.

53:38

There's just quite a few

53:41

steps in going through that journey.

53:43

And we just wanted something where we could

53:45

just send people that they could open a

53:47

URL and start seeing value

53:49

for value music. The

53:52

other thing was that I think

53:55

that the

53:58

music podcast hosts and obviously – Adam,

54:00

you do an incredible job with Boost

54:02

the Grand Ball. They're the

54:05

best at surfacing new

54:07

value for value music, but there's plenty

54:10

of other people out there that are

54:12

also discovering these tracks and also have

54:14

a part to play there in terms

54:16

of making people aware of new music.

54:21

And that was the reason why we wanted to do

54:23

the cue feature and

54:27

let anybody cue something and let

54:29

anybody boost tracks. You

54:32

have done something here which has been

54:34

talked about since 1996. I've heard

54:36

people say, oh,

54:40

we're gonna make it like radio jukebox

54:42

and people can upvote and

54:44

you did it. I've heard so

54:46

many people talk about this and oh

54:49

no, it's one of those... It's almost as

54:52

rare that this was created

54:54

as micropayments that we're doing.

54:56

That was one of the big promises and my

54:58

favorite which is

55:00

your refrigerator will know when you're out of milk,

55:02

it's gonna automatically order it for you which also

55:04

has never happened. This is one of those things

55:07

that I could not

55:09

believe it, like wow, someone actually

55:11

did it and weirdly doesn't surprise

55:13

me that you as you say,

55:15

you kind of just threw it

55:18

together. And I think

55:20

it's a perfect companion to

55:22

stuff like Boost a Grand Ball because

55:25

I'm seeing stuff that I've played, I'm

55:27

seeing people throwing those in there, I'm

55:29

seeing them being upvoted. This is

55:31

something very new and of

55:34

course, I also knew that you did it

55:36

just to impress us for coming on the

55:38

show today. Obvious. Well

55:40

I mean podcastindex.

55:42

is clearly working because

55:44

podcastindex.top is the music chart

55:46

that everybody follows. The top 100 is now

55:49

what? It's now 361. I

55:54

mean it's out of control now. Honestly, so

55:58

we launched it on... Yeah,

56:00

two days ago and I

56:02

ended up staying up to about three in the

56:05

morning because I was just watching What

56:07

was happening because we didn't you know, we

56:09

did no You

56:11

know use the testing or we didn't

56:13

really think about it that much We just were

56:15

like we think this will be cool But really

56:18

we have no idea so I was super curious

56:20

to just see how people were using it and

56:22

there was a point Maybe about two in the

56:24

morning where the

56:26

number of stats to play next was starting

56:28

to creep up You know, yeah, normally it

56:30

was about a hundred or two hundred and

56:32

it started to creep up, you know One

56:34

thousand two thousand three thousand people

56:36

were kind of like, you know song sniping

56:39

each other You know ten seconds left to play

56:41

and then someone sends a boost and jumps to

56:43

the top and it plays next but no just

56:45

stuff like that was Fascinating

56:48

to see and watch I'd like to get some

56:50

of this round robin discovery stuff going So I'd

56:52

like to put a couple things in your ear

56:54

one If you can

56:56

take a look at your TLV records just

56:58

in general so that when someone's boosting a

57:01

remote item on a music

57:03

podcast That I

57:05

as a music podcaster can see what

57:08

they what they boosted What

57:12

I think you need that you need to send the remote

57:14

item goo it or something I'm not sure what that is

57:18

but other other

57:20

apps seem to be able to do

57:22

it like curio caster and cast-o-matic and

57:26

some of some other one just

57:28

so that I as a music

57:31

podcaster have that information like what are

57:33

people boosting because like I can't see

57:35

it and The

57:38

this and of course the

57:40

reply function I'm just gonna throw it out

57:42

there every single time because that's so cool.

57:44

I mean, I'm literally sending stats back and

57:47

in Some

57:50

of the stuff that Dolby dust did

57:52

with RSS blue comm I love

57:54

the idea of And

57:56

me and I don't know. I mean I

57:58

mean he's obviously got scripts running to

58:00

do it but I would love to see,

58:02

oh this song has played on and then

58:06

show the playlist that it's on or be able

58:08

to expand it to show what podcast has been

58:10

played on. I mean this is the stuff that

58:12

I can just feel we can

58:14

really start creating discovery if we can add all

58:16

these things. I know I'm asking for a lot

58:19

but I might as well ask.

58:23

Yeah, definitely on the TLV. I

58:26

thought we had already done that. I

58:28

thought I'd done that but I'll double check that for you.

58:31

And yeah, I also totally

58:33

agree with you in terms

58:36

of surfacing the, I guess,

58:38

discovery connections between all

58:40

of these pieces of content and also

58:43

between all of the apps as well. I

58:46

think the more that we can, you

58:48

know, surface our own data so that

58:50

other apps can consume that and try

58:52

and do it in a standardized way,

58:54

I think that's really

58:57

powerful because really if

58:59

it's just, you know, fountain that has

59:01

whether it's, you know, charts or, you

59:03

know, what happened within the fountain app,

59:05

it's much more powerful to have a

59:08

view across all of the different apps. Yeah,

59:11

I think music is probably the, I

59:15

think maybe you

59:17

have an instinct for music being

59:19

a good entry point to getting people

59:21

comfortable with value for value in general because

59:24

it's the thing where we're all used to

59:26

paying for music. We all

59:28

understand that it's heavily copyrighted,

59:30

it's heavily protected, I guess is

59:33

the best way to say it.

59:36

And you know, you can't listen. It's

59:38

very hard to listen to music without

59:41

outside of radio but you have a sense that,

59:43

okay, well, we're getting hit with ads every two

59:45

seconds. Somebody's making money somewhere. There's

59:48

just a sense that music is

59:51

a thing you pay for that may

59:54

not have been native to podcasting

59:56

itself because there's so many

59:58

shows. for a

1:00:00

long time but podcasting was born early

1:00:03

on without advertising. You know, advertising came in

1:00:05

but there's still so many podcasts today that

1:00:07

don't have it. And

1:00:10

I think we get used to that. We've

1:00:12

gotten used to that fact and

1:00:15

you know, music doesn't really lend itself

1:00:17

to ads. So you can't

1:00:19

just drop an ad in the middle of a

1:00:22

three minutes on. So there's really,

1:00:24

I think music is probably a great

1:00:27

introduction to value for value in

1:00:29

general so that you

1:00:31

bring the value for value mentality.

1:00:36

It may start with V for V music

1:00:38

but then people bring

1:00:41

that mentality back to podcasting

1:00:43

itself. You know,

1:00:46

with stuff like the, with stuff like radio and

1:00:48

that kind of thing, it just makes sense. People

1:00:51

get used to this and then

1:00:53

they come right back into a podcast app and they're like,

1:00:55

okay, well, this is just the same thing. I'm just doing

1:00:57

the exact same thing. Yeah,

1:01:01

I think as well, you know, it's a

1:01:03

slightly different I

1:01:06

guess use case or time of day,

1:01:08

you know, we were thinking about like,

1:01:10

you know, you're sat in the office,

1:01:12

right? You're probably, well, you might listen

1:01:15

to a podcast on, you know,

1:01:17

on your headphones at the office, but there's so

1:01:19

many people that listen to music in the office

1:01:21

and they don't really necessarily

1:01:23

mind what's playing. They just want to

1:01:25

have something on in the background. And

1:01:28

so, yeah, the ability to just have a

1:01:31

kind of endless speed of music

1:01:33

where, you know, obviously, you know, I've been

1:01:35

monitoring it over the past couple of days

1:01:37

and there's not always people queuing it up

1:01:40

and then we just pull random

1:01:42

tracks from, you know,

1:01:44

podcast index. But

1:01:46

the idea that, you know, hopefully on some

1:01:48

level, there's like a layer of the community

1:01:50

that is, you know, putting cool stuff in

1:01:53

that they find. And then that goes out

1:01:55

to everybody. I've been a radio guy since

1:01:57

I was 13 years old. This

1:02:00

is the first music radio without disc

1:02:02

jockeys that I'm excited by and I

1:02:05

don't know if this is something that

1:02:07

other people feel But inherently I know

1:02:10

that this is not just

1:02:12

someone's playlist one person's playlist

1:02:15

Because I you know, I listen to people's play

1:02:17

us like okay I know what this playlist is

1:02:19

kind of about it has in

1:02:22

a way it has some of the excitement of

1:02:24

a Pandora radio station but

1:02:27

but the The random

1:02:29

the randomness of

1:02:31

jack fm, you know, it's

1:02:33

like it can go Oh and there's this and it

1:02:35

goes from that and I just know that there's that

1:02:38

there's a human being Not

1:02:40

always, but I know that there are human beings

1:02:42

who are influencing this and

1:02:44

I love listening I

1:02:47

never have music on in my in my studio when

1:02:49

I'm working now I have this on the background and

1:02:51

then I hear something Oh, let me go check and

1:02:53

I can see the chat and I can see if

1:02:56

it was Pulled randomly or

1:02:58

upvoted. There's something uniquely human about

1:03:00

this that I can't explain but

1:03:02

it's very appealing It really is

1:03:04

great. It's just hands down. I'm

1:03:07

so happy you did this. This is a great great

1:03:09

idea Thank

1:03:12

you Adam, I really appreciate you saying that

1:03:14

and you know, hopefully I mean one of

1:03:16

the other reasons we did it as well

1:03:18

is because the

1:03:20

Aimsley Castello Concert

1:03:23

which you know at the time Didn't

1:03:27

really have the

1:03:29

ability in the fountain

1:03:31

app or on web to really like

1:03:33

play a live stream at that point

1:03:35

we didn't even have live video obviously

1:03:38

Aimsley's concert was coming up and so

1:03:40

I Very quickly threw

1:03:42

together that page that you guys probably saw

1:03:44

on fountain where we were telling him up

1:03:47

the boost and the total sound Yes from

1:03:49

all the apps and but it was it

1:03:52

was you know Really basic and it didn't look

1:03:54

very good and there was no real interactivity. It

1:03:56

was just a list of the booth So another

1:03:59

reason that we wanted to try this

1:04:01

is that we think a lot of the elements,

1:04:03

especially the chat feature, we

1:04:06

could hopefully at

1:04:08

some point reuse for regular

1:04:12

podcast live streams and we

1:04:14

could figure out, okay, how does chat work? What kind

1:04:16

of things do we have to do? Because I think

1:04:18

also, if I was comparing the fountain

1:04:23

live page to what

1:04:25

Zap.stream had for the,

1:04:27

sorry, tunes that had for the

1:04:30

ANZ Castello gig and I was

1:04:32

like, okay, we need to

1:04:34

raise the bar here in terms of

1:04:36

what people want from a live experience.

1:04:39

And so hopefully, we can

1:04:41

test that out with fountain radio

1:04:43

and break things and mess around

1:04:45

because it's not as critical as

1:04:49

someone's concert that, you know, yeah, or

1:04:52

so that was another reason we wanted to do it. So

1:04:55

is the fountain stack, is

1:04:57

that still Flutter? Yeah,

1:05:02

so the mobile app is

1:05:04

all built with Flutter, which

1:05:06

is the programming languages start,

1:05:08

but Flutter is Google's cross

1:05:10

app development framework. And yeah, it's

1:05:12

really good. We would highly recommend it.

1:05:14

There's a few quirks to it, especially

1:05:17

when you're trying to do stuff like CarPlay

1:05:19

and Android Auto, which has taken up a lot

1:05:21

of time. Do you have to fall back

1:05:24

to the native APIs for that or

1:05:26

does Flutter allow for that? Yeah, you

1:05:29

have to fall back to the native APIs. So you have to go

1:05:31

into the Swift

1:05:34

or Kotlin and figure out

1:05:36

all of that. How

1:05:39

does that work? I've never used Flutter.

1:05:41

I mean, do you have to like build a

1:05:43

Kotlin or Swift native library, import that

1:05:46

in, and then call into it with

1:05:48

Flutter? Yeah,

1:05:50

so you use something called a

1:05:53

method channel, which is essentially, you

1:05:55

just you build the interface and all

1:05:57

of the method

1:06:00

calls on the Dart side and then you

1:06:02

build the exact same thing on the native

1:06:04

side and then you kind of like communicate

1:06:07

over the method channel. So it is a

1:06:09

little bit fiddly and that's that is the

1:06:11

downside but I mean you know

1:06:13

what's great about Flutter and I'm sure

1:06:16

React Native offers this as well but

1:06:18

for example our clipping tool our new

1:06:20

clipping tool that we released in 1.0

1:06:23

we have like a wheel and you can

1:06:25

drag the start and end time and you

1:06:28

can then drag the position and there's loads

1:06:30

of complicated UI, complicated

1:06:32

maths around figuring out the

1:06:34

circle for the clip and

1:06:37

you know for us to build that twice

1:06:39

in Swift and Kotlin would just

1:06:41

be you know it would just take too

1:06:43

much time whereas that's all just in Flutter,

1:06:45

one programming language and Dart is very

1:06:48

similar syntax for JavaScript so it's

1:06:50

like pretty easy to get your

1:06:52

head around, pretty intuitive. Yeah

1:06:55

that makes sense, that makes a lot of sense.

1:06:57

So on the app

1:07:01

it's on fountain app itself have

1:07:04

you seen a lot of have you seen

1:07:06

have you seen

1:07:08

stickiness with your users like when users begin

1:07:11

to use when you have a new user

1:07:13

to fountain do you do

1:07:15

they tend to do you see a

1:07:17

lot of people trying it out and then leaving or do they stay

1:07:19

with it? Yeah

1:07:22

so it's definitely a challenge to

1:07:24

get people to stick with it

1:07:27

but there's so clearly two groups

1:07:29

of people, there are people that

1:07:31

send a boost to a podcast and

1:07:33

there are people that don't and

1:07:36

the people that send the boost they

1:07:39

are really really sticky and they come

1:07:41

back and they use the app

1:07:43

again and again and so for us always

1:07:45

the biggest challenge has been how do

1:07:47

we give people the experience

1:07:50

that we all know and everybody probably listening

1:07:52

to this knows is a great experience of

1:07:54

sending your first boost and feeling that you've

1:07:56

contributed back to you know the podcaster that

1:07:58

you've been listening to. listening

1:08:01

to for years probably. How

1:08:03

do we allow people to

1:08:06

do that easily on the first

1:08:08

time they download the app? And

1:08:10

the reality is that it still

1:08:12

really sucks in fountain. It's not

1:08:14

experience. You

1:08:17

download the app, you've heard about value

1:08:20

for value from your podcast because

1:08:22

that's where most people hear about it. And

1:08:25

you have a wallet and yes, you can earn a few

1:08:27

stats but not really enough to send the boost. And

1:08:29

then you're like, okay, how do I top up this

1:08:31

wallet? You can top up

1:08:33

with a bank card, which was a big improvement

1:08:35

when we introduced that a year ago. But

1:08:38

you still, the partnership with MoonPay, you have

1:08:40

to do, it depends on jurisdiction, but you

1:08:42

have to do KYC. Or

1:08:45

you have to go and figure out this whole Bitcoin

1:08:47

Lightning world. Do I download cash app? I know cash

1:08:49

app is not available in the UK. Strike,

1:08:51

I know that's not available either. What's

1:08:54

the wallet? Non-custodial, custodial, invoice.

1:08:58

All of that stuff is sucks. There's

1:09:00

so many points where people can drop

1:09:02

off. It sucks. Yeah, it

1:09:04

sucks. So I think there's

1:09:06

a way that we can do

1:09:09

it though. And I don't know

1:09:11

if you guys saw, there's a

1:09:13

Noster app called Primal. And what

1:09:15

they've done is you actually

1:09:18

top up your wallet with an in-app

1:09:20

purchase. So

1:09:24

you give Apple the 30%, which

1:09:27

means that you're topping up with,

1:09:29

you're getting ripped off by Apple

1:09:31

basically. But they've done that without

1:09:34

requiring KYC. And

1:09:37

it's a limit of $5. But

1:09:40

that's the type of thing that I think could make

1:09:43

the first experience of

1:09:46

using a value-for-value app way

1:09:48

better. Because

1:09:50

you don't have to go

1:09:52

through the loops of figuring out

1:09:55

Bitcoin or Lightning or buying

1:09:57

or anything like that. It's just an in-app purchase.

1:10:00

Most people have done and are comfortable with

1:10:02

so so they get started max

1:10:04

five five $5

1:10:07

and then Apple takes a buck and a half Yeah,

1:10:11

yeah Well, that's

1:10:13

that's actually pretty that's actually a pretty cool

1:10:15

idea because you you get

1:10:18

up to get you started. That's for sure Yeah,

1:10:20

yeah, you get on you get five bucks. You

1:10:22

know It's the easy

1:10:24

entrance and then once they once

1:10:27

people learn about it, then you're like, okay There actually

1:10:29

is another way you have a wallet that exists outside.

1:10:31

You can go top it up over. Yeah, you can

1:10:33

take them down a path Yeah,

1:10:36

right. Right stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah that makes how

1:10:38

about the strike? How about strike? Is that because

1:10:40

I think you can you can use strike now

1:10:42

as well Did

1:10:45

I see yeah, so you can top up

1:10:47

we yeah, we've got an integration with strike

1:10:50

Where if you have a strike account, you

1:10:53

can top up your fountain ball it

1:10:55

with one tap If I

1:10:58

can owe us integration with strike, so that

1:11:00

works well But obviously if you don't have

1:11:02

a strike account, then you're still stuck in

1:11:04

in no man's land You

1:11:07

know trying to figure it all out. So Yeah,

1:11:10

are you you know, I don't

1:11:12

know about this that hey, I

1:11:15

know this is all annoying it is all this is very

1:11:17

annoying and I know it it does it does but You

1:11:21

know, I keep coming back to this idea

1:11:23

of like it sucks in real

1:11:25

life with fiat In a

1:11:27

lot of ways, I mean just trying to get somebody money I

1:11:30

mean we have to have the same app

1:11:33

and then okay, I'm gonna pay you back

1:11:35

for this thing Do

1:11:37

you have then mode? No, do you have cash out? Yeah,

1:11:39

yeah, but I don't have that So I know I'm gonna

1:11:42

have to go cash out now. I'm gonna have to kyc

1:11:44

my bank I mean like we already jumped through a lot

1:11:46

of hoops and fiat too I think we just were

1:11:48

more used to it. And so

1:11:51

we kind of give it the benefit

1:11:53

of the dollar Yeah, I think there's

1:11:55

something to that So

1:12:00

remember, all of this

1:12:02

stuff has had its own path.

1:12:04

It's like this is a payment thing and

1:12:06

people are very used to payment

1:12:08

systems working but I find as a

1:12:10

podcaster when I explain it to people

1:12:13

and say, hey, guess what? Freedom

1:12:15

requires an extra step. That always works by the

1:12:17

way. Oh, okay. There's no one in

1:12:19

the middle. It's just you and me baby. That

1:12:25

typically works quite well. Are

1:12:29

you planning on enabling

1:12:32

video playback? Yeah,

1:12:36

we definitely want to support video

1:12:39

for live stream. That's the kind

1:12:41

of first step in which we

1:12:43

don't support right now on mobile.

1:12:47

And other than that, I guess

1:12:50

for me, you know, I've always just

1:12:52

tried to build the features that I

1:12:55

want to see into fountain. And for

1:12:57

me, I've never really

1:12:59

understood the appeal of watching

1:13:02

the video version of a

1:13:04

podcast. I totally get it for live

1:13:06

streams. But I think for me,

1:13:08

the magic of podcasting and audio

1:13:10

is that you can be, you know,

1:13:13

doing the washing art stuck on

1:13:16

a bus in London traffic or,

1:13:18

you know, just walking

1:13:20

to the shops and you can be, you

1:13:23

know, listening to incredible content. So

1:13:25

I think for that reason, video

1:13:29

is a different thing when you need to

1:13:31

have the app open to actually use it.

1:13:35

So but we

1:13:37

definitely support it if that's what people want

1:13:40

to. And I think definitely for live, we're

1:13:42

going to add that soon to the mobile

1:13:44

app. Cool. Is

1:13:47

the criminal from wrong it is

1:13:51

the Rogan video

1:13:53

Spotify only and only the audio is

1:13:55

in the feed as far as I

1:13:57

know. Okay.

1:14:00

But he may be doing a

1:14:03

deal with them with YouTube. I

1:14:05

got to tell you all these Spotify deals, everyone's

1:14:08

on the market. I think they really

1:14:10

went like, we'll give you a guaranteed

1:14:12

minimum of almost nothing. I'm not sure

1:14:15

about Rogan, which

1:14:19

he now so did we see his feed move to

1:14:21

megaphone. So I guess they're getting serious now about

1:14:24

ads of which there have been none.

1:14:30

So I'm not so sure what's going on with

1:14:32

all of that. I mean, I think there's a

1:14:34

lot of big talk

1:14:37

about big numbers, but I'm not sure the numbers are really all

1:14:39

that big. Yeah. You

1:14:42

know what I mean? I was just

1:14:45

wondering at some point, because

1:14:49

a show like Rogan's, it kind

1:14:52

of defies explanation.

1:14:55

That may be the only podcast

1:14:57

that people really crave the video

1:14:59

first experience for. If

1:15:01

they really do, I'm still not even sure about

1:15:03

that. Yeah, that's true.

1:15:06

Who knows? I mean, there's no way to know. I

1:15:10

hate to do this, but do

1:15:13

we need to talk about... Don't we need to talk

1:15:15

about fees? I mean, like... I

1:15:19

think we did. I hate

1:15:21

to just throw cold water on everything.

1:15:23

We need to jingle like horrible. I

1:15:29

think you need to pop the math jingle,

1:15:32

and I think we just need to take

1:15:34

this pill. All right, here we go. It's

1:15:38

so hot when you talk

1:15:40

math. We're on that sink

1:15:42

dry. Whoo, baby! Oh,

1:15:45

yeah, we're talking that math.

1:15:49

And we're talking math. The

1:15:51

fact that that jingle still references things. That's

1:15:55

the best part of it. Yeah,

1:15:57

that's funny. The

1:16:01

proposal in the namespace that

1:16:05

to remove, there

1:16:07

to change the way that the fees

1:16:09

work in the value

1:16:11

recipient. So for current, the way it

1:16:13

is now, the

1:16:17

fee, if you have an

1:16:20

attribute on a value recipient tag of fee

1:16:22

equals true, that means

1:16:24

that the split

1:16:26

value is now no longer a

1:16:28

share, it's now a

1:16:30

straight percentage. So fee

1:16:33

equals true and then the value

1:16:35

recipient, the value split

1:16:38

is one, that means 1% off the

1:16:41

total. This has

1:16:43

got, this is, there's problems here.

1:16:45

And the biggest problem I see right

1:16:49

off the bat, and it was not

1:16:51

really something anticipated in

1:16:53

the beginning when we first worked this stuff

1:16:55

out. The biggest problem to me is you

1:16:58

cannot go less than a 1% split. Right.

1:17:02

Well, that's fine if you have, if

1:17:04

we're talking about a hundred bucks a

1:17:06

month, we're talking about $20,000 a

1:17:08

month, well then if you're

1:17:11

sending a transcription service,

1:17:13

that's a lot,

1:17:15

you may not want to send a transcription service

1:17:17

to $200 a month for a couple of shows, for

1:17:24

a couple of the transcripts. So the fact that you can't

1:17:26

go below a 1% is to me the biggest problem. Do

1:17:31

you agree with this initial premise,

1:17:34

Oscar? Yeah, definitely. I

1:17:38

think that for me,

1:17:41

the reason that I

1:17:44

was hesitant about

1:17:46

that wording change is because I

1:17:48

think that there's,

1:17:50

well, there's two things going on

1:17:52

really. I think the first is

1:17:54

we actually never adhere to the

1:17:56

like spec. as

1:18:00

it's written out on podcast index in

1:18:02

terms of I think it's

1:18:05

treating the C splits as

1:18:08

percentages first

1:18:10

and then tallying up the

1:18:12

rest of the splits as

1:18:15

quote unquote shares and

1:18:17

then splitting those equally

1:18:19

based on total and

1:18:22

that was something that you know maybe it

1:18:24

was an oversight or maybe in

1:18:26

fact it definitely was an oversight but we just

1:18:29

never took that into account and

1:18:31

I'm not sure that other apps did either

1:18:33

I think it was just something that was

1:18:35

never really looked at with much detail and

1:18:38

it was only when WDS kind of like

1:18:40

tried to clarify that that I

1:18:42

thought to myself I'm not sure you know

1:18:45

how intuitive

1:18:48

it is because I think another

1:18:50

thing that we found over the past couple

1:18:52

of years is just the confusion around splits

1:18:55

is there's a lot of confusion and

1:18:58

I just from my perspective

1:19:00

I think you

1:19:02

know we should prioritize simplicity

1:19:04

for both the listener and

1:19:07

the podcaster over you

1:19:10

know these fee service splits

1:19:12

that maybe want to you know

1:19:15

have some minimum or you know have

1:19:17

a a fixed

1:19:19

percentage and so that's

1:19:22

why my perspective on it would

1:19:24

be we should just treat all

1:19:26

splits as equal and kind of

1:19:28

like forget about the the fee

1:19:30

aspect to it yeah that's kind

1:19:33

of my high level view on it yeah

1:19:37

so that's yeah that makes that makes

1:19:39

sense so I think I think the

1:19:42

proposal is basically remove

1:19:44

the idea of a percentage and just

1:19:46

treat fee splits

1:19:50

just as if they're shares just

1:19:52

they're just shares just like everything else just

1:19:54

so a

1:19:57

split everybody gets everybody gets the same

1:19:59

split It's not this not

1:20:01

this one value recipient. No

1:20:03

prior to no prioritization. Yeah,

1:20:05

it's not treated differently. Yeah Yeah,

1:20:09

it's not like you somebody jumps ahead of

1:20:11

the line or somebody Gets

1:20:13

you have to do special math for this

1:20:15

split and then and then do another round

1:20:17

of math for the other I mean dovie

1:20:19

dots. I mean god.

1:20:22

I love you dovie dots. I mean the the math

1:20:25

Problems that he did in latex in

1:20:27

order to lay all this out and

1:20:29

just he just made me angry It

1:20:34

made me laugh angry is there anyone pushing back

1:20:36

on this I mean I haven't looked at the

1:20:38

github proposal But is everyone kind of cool with

1:20:40

this Battle cuz it

1:20:42

was it was really only app developers.

1:20:44

I think you were getting the preferred splits now.

1:20:46

I know there Okay,

1:20:50

so where this comes into play where that?

1:20:54

Are you okay there Oscar it feels like sounds

1:20:56

like you've fallen off the chair I

1:21:04

think is IPFS podcasting net

1:21:06

which I want to talk

1:21:08

about anyway Because

1:21:10

you know what happened with with

1:21:12

IPFS podcasting which actually

1:21:15

is not really IPFS Podcasting

1:21:17

it's you know, it's

1:21:19

not like everyone sharing bandwidth You know

1:21:21

you have a whole bunch of copies

1:21:23

of your episodes and it's all going

1:21:25

through one or two gateways and

1:21:29

people started thinking that this

1:21:31

was a business model instead of value for value

1:21:33

and you know and IPFS

1:21:37

podcasting requires a 5% fee in

1:21:41

in the old calculation model and And

1:21:47

You know, it's still all manual it's not

1:21:49

really set up The

1:21:51

way I think it should or could work.

1:21:53

I'm not sure if we can ever make

1:21:56

it work perfectly by the way I'm publishing

1:21:58

today's episode through the IPFS IPFS

1:22:00

gateway so that

1:22:02

Jason at Podcast Guru can

1:22:04

work on testing his native

1:22:07

IPFS client in the podcast guru

1:22:10

which is awesome. That's

1:22:12

what I think it should be because

1:22:14

right now we're dealing with gateways but

1:22:16

I think Cameron may have some feedback

1:22:18

because he was very adamant

1:22:21

about hey, people need to get paid and

1:22:23

I'm like that's never really gonna

1:22:25

work. If people want to

1:22:27

compensate their bandwidth and

1:22:29

storage with splits

1:22:32

and you wanna have fees on top, I

1:22:34

just don't think it's proven.

1:22:36

People aren't really using it, it's unreliable,

1:22:39

it just hasn't worked well enough yet.

1:22:43

Yeah and I think that if

1:22:46

this would, I would feel a

1:22:48

little bit differently if we didn't

1:22:51

now have remote items and remote

1:22:53

value time splits because I think

1:22:56

then it would be easier for

1:22:58

everybody involved to understand that

1:23:01

okay, this is a

1:23:03

service fee and therefore we

1:23:06

can't reduce the percentage

1:23:09

and then the rest can be treated as shares.

1:23:11

But when you start to add

1:23:13

in the value time splits, as

1:23:17

you said, David, you start doing

1:23:19

equations and I think that

1:23:21

the simplest thing for everybody would just be

1:23:23

to just treat them

1:23:27

equally and I think that any

1:23:29

fee service provider and

1:23:32

Fountain does this as well, we provide the

1:23:34

boost box for a 1% fee split. I

1:23:37

think we're still so early with this

1:23:39

and I think the

1:23:42

more we can prioritize simplicity for

1:23:44

the listener and the podcaster over

1:23:46

what is probably just gonna be

1:23:48

a small amount of incremental fee

1:23:51

revenues, I think it will

1:23:53

be better for everybody. But also

1:23:55

I will say I'm happy to

1:23:57

go with whatever the community. want

1:24:00

to go. Here's

1:24:03

a question about the boost bot.

1:24:07

Does the boost bot take

1:24:09

remote items into account? And

1:24:13

let me see if I can give you the

1:24:16

use case. Maybe I'm thinking strangely. So if someone

1:24:18

boosts Abby

1:24:21

Muir on boost the grand ball, the remote

1:24:24

item gets a split. Would

1:24:27

that also show up under the activity

1:24:30

tab on Abby Muir song

1:24:32

in fountain? No,

1:24:36

it doesn't do that yet.

1:24:38

But that's something that we could definitely

1:24:40

add. I think that... Sorry,

1:24:45

go ahead. No, no, please go. I'm sorry. Yeah,

1:24:49

I was just going to say, I think

1:24:52

that the

1:24:54

way that we are

1:24:57

using the boost bot to you

1:25:00

know, surface the boost from

1:25:03

other apps, we kind of did

1:25:05

that as a quick

1:25:08

fix. But I don't think it's the

1:25:10

right long term solution. Because

1:25:12

what would inevitably happen is

1:25:15

that every

1:25:17

app or service that wants

1:25:19

to display the boost would

1:25:21

have to add a 1% split. And then all

1:25:24

of these, you know, app specific boost

1:25:26

bots would add up. So here's... And I

1:25:29

think that we need a better way. Here

1:25:31

is... So I was listening to Sam

1:25:34

Sethy on PodNews Weekly Review. I think

1:25:36

I heard him say something different. Because

1:25:39

he has activity streams, he's

1:25:41

pushing very hard for this.

1:25:45

And I think I heard him...

1:25:47

Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know, David, if you

1:25:49

heard this part of the conversation. I

1:25:52

think I heard him say, wouldn't

1:25:54

it be interesting to put the

1:25:56

activity stream values into the TLV

1:25:58

record? Maybe

1:26:01

I'm wrong. I

1:26:04

don't think I'm that far in the show so I

1:26:06

don't think I can help you with that. Because ultimately,

1:26:08

I mean I can hear him screaming right now. What

1:26:11

he's saying is we should all

1:26:14

be using activity streams which means

1:26:16

somehow there's another, there's an

1:26:19

XML stream that comes out of

1:26:21

every user's behavior that they can

1:26:23

manage but it still needs to

1:26:25

be published somewhere for

1:26:28

other apps to get. I don't know

1:26:30

and I thought he said, what if

1:26:32

we put that information in those values

1:26:34

into the

1:26:38

streaming stats and then maybe the hosts

1:26:41

get that? The hosting companies,

1:26:43

there's something there, I can't quite figure

1:26:46

it out yet but I agree with

1:26:48

you obviously Oscar is we need a

1:26:50

way and I

1:26:52

always thought it would be a service that

1:26:55

you could do a 1% split

1:26:57

to a service and that service

1:27:00

would then publish that

1:27:02

information for other apps to grab is

1:27:04

what I thought might happen. And

1:27:13

then everyone died. Yeah. I

1:27:16

guess, no sorry, I was thinking through.

1:27:21

I mean my view

1:27:24

on this is

1:27:26

the dreaded NOSDA word which

1:27:28

I know people have different

1:27:31

views on but I also

1:27:33

saw that latest proposal on

1:27:35

the NOSDA repository that wanted

1:27:38

to replace RSS entirely which I thought.

1:27:40

I think I talked him off the

1:27:42

lid. You did. You did.

1:27:45

You did well there. You brought out the book. You

1:27:47

brought out the book, the New Testament. You're

1:27:51

going against God, son. Yeah. That

1:27:54

was good. Paraphrase, that's LLM paraphrase. I

1:28:00

do think, and whether it's NOSR or something

1:28:02

else personally, I think NOSR would work quite

1:28:05

well, is that just not for anything to

1:28:07

do with the media hosting, but just for

1:28:09

the comments. Because

1:28:11

then all we

1:28:14

need to do is just agree on

1:28:16

the way that we reference, and we've got the podcast

1:28:19

goo is we can just stick them in as tags.

1:28:21

And then it's not a service

1:28:24

that we're using, it's just the

1:28:26

comments live on NOSR and every app can pull

1:28:28

them in. I think

1:28:30

you actually suggested that, Dave. I mean,

1:28:33

but maybe not doing it specifically

1:28:35

that way, but for the chat

1:28:38

or the social interact.

1:28:41

Yeah, my thing was just put

1:28:43

in if the NOSR people want to

1:28:46

do... Don't

1:28:48

try to replace RSS, just use the existing RSS tagging

1:28:54

that we have and

1:28:56

integrate that way because that's what it's for. Yeah. There's

1:28:58

no reason to get rid of a thing and try

1:29:00

to replace it. And

1:29:05

I think you would provide quite a

1:29:07

boost to NOSR if you were to

1:29:09

implement something like that, Oscar,

1:29:11

because they're clearly... I always

1:29:14

say NOSR seems to be a solution

1:29:16

looking for a problem. When people are

1:29:18

like, yeah, we'll replace RSS, I'm like,

1:29:20

okay, you got nothing better to do?

1:29:22

And I was like, no, no, no. I

1:29:27

think that

1:29:30

there's been some kind of like, I

1:29:33

guess maybe it's a strong word for

1:29:35

animosity between people who... And I

1:29:38

just don't see it that way as some

1:29:40

kind of RSS versus NOSR thing. I think

1:29:42

that's a crazy way to think about it.

1:29:45

I think that both

1:29:47

in NOSR and in podcasting 2.0, we

1:29:51

have the big, big issue

1:29:53

of onboarding people to Lightning.

1:29:57

And that is, I think, the real... blocker

1:30:00

in onboarding more podcasters to value

1:30:02

for value. Like that's what we

1:30:05

see week in, week out when

1:30:07

we speak to podcasters. And I

1:30:09

think the Noster community of

1:30:11

developers and users, and, you know,

1:30:13

it is an active community. They

1:30:16

have that exact same problem and

1:30:18

every single person that they onboard

1:30:20

to a Lightning Board is

1:30:22

someone that we won't have to and vice

1:30:25

versa. And we can also learn from each

1:30:27

other in terms of how we

1:30:29

do that. You know, I gave the

1:30:31

example of primals onboarding earlier. And

1:30:33

so I think that, you know, we

1:30:36

shouldn't be framing it through

1:30:38

this RSS versus Noster kind

1:30:40

of paradigm instead. It should,

1:30:42

I think Noster is a

1:30:45

great option for, you know, cross app comments

1:30:47

in podcasting, a great option for live chat.

1:30:49

And because of the way the spec is

1:30:51

framed, it doesn't have to be the only

1:30:54

one in the podcaster can decide, but I

1:30:56

think that's something that we should kind

1:30:58

of explore. Here's my view

1:31:01

because now we'll just leave aside

1:31:03

the discussions of RSS and

1:31:05

replacing podcasting, but I don't think that's ever

1:31:08

been the issue. The issue is KeySend versus

1:31:10

LN URL or

1:31:12

LN URL pay, whatever, Zap

1:31:15

versus Boost. This is the issue. That's

1:31:18

the only issue in my mind. And

1:31:21

I'm not quite sure how we solve

1:31:23

it because you're right. We're onboarding people

1:31:25

into two different, basically we're

1:31:28

onboarding people in both sides, Noster

1:31:30

and 2.0 are

1:31:32

onboarding people into Bitcoin, but

1:31:36

very different functioning wallets. Albee

1:31:39

actually has, you know, as

1:31:41

doing a little bit of

1:31:43

both. But the

1:31:45

mechanisms are just seem

1:31:48

kind of incompatible. If

1:31:50

we could make those

1:31:53

work together somehow, then

1:31:55

we have magic because there's no

1:31:57

animosity. We're all nerds. We're all

1:31:59

developers. we all want to

1:32:01

make this stuff work and I'll

1:32:03

just brush aside the people

1:32:07

who were like, okay, fine, whatever. But

1:32:12

also, what are you

1:32:14

really good at? You're good at messaging and

1:32:16

payments would just, Twitter

1:32:19

can do just as good as apps just

1:32:21

as well. It's not anything special, it's just

1:32:23

you're putting it into the app. So

1:32:25

if we can marry those two somehow

1:32:28

that even the

1:32:30

fact that we talk about zaps

1:32:32

versus boost, if we can marry

1:32:34

those two into 2.0, I think

1:32:36

we have something really beautiful and they can

1:32:39

just be another thing Noster does. That's

1:32:42

where I think we need to be

1:32:44

and not like and or but make

1:32:46

Noster do a cross app comments, make

1:32:48

Noster your profile for login

1:32:50

for chat. We already have demonstrated that.

1:32:53

It already works and

1:32:55

then somehow we need to integrate

1:32:58

the zap and the boost function

1:33:00

into doing what we need it to

1:33:02

do. Yes, Sam, Sethi, I know that

1:33:04

you already have that. I find

1:33:06

the language is

1:33:08

the biggest barrier, zap versus boost and under

1:33:11

the hood, we know what a boost does,

1:33:13

we know how it works with splits, we

1:33:15

figured this out. Can

1:33:17

we get them to utilize what we've

1:33:19

already figured out and have implemented for

1:33:21

three years? Yeah, this is my... Sorry,

1:33:24

go ahead, Dave. No,

1:33:26

I was just going

1:33:29

to say that was my point to them.

1:33:31

I was trying to make that point whether I did

1:33:33

or not. I don't know. It's

1:33:36

just don't wait. There's so much wasted

1:33:38

effort trying to move this

1:33:40

boulder up a hill. Don't

1:33:44

do that. Do something new. Do

1:33:46

something different. Figure out. Look

1:33:49

at the tags that are written. It

1:33:51

would be so much easier rather than

1:33:53

trying to reinvent podcasting to pull

1:33:56

the RSS in these apps and

1:33:58

then if you want to go do... stuff

1:34:00

over Noster and allow them to zap through

1:34:02

to the value recipients and stuff that are

1:34:04

already there, then basically you've turned Noster into

1:34:06

just a big podcast app and

1:34:08

that's fine. I mean that works fine.

1:34:11

Do that if you want to. Just

1:34:13

don't. It's no, there's just so,

1:34:15

I just dread this wasted effort

1:34:17

of trying to re-proof, like reinvent

1:34:19

everything especially in an industry that

1:34:21

is not going to budge. Right.

1:34:25

Yes. I

1:34:28

completely agree and I think that

1:34:30

the language point Adam is really,

1:34:32

really important because you're right that

1:34:34

they are conceptually different and I

1:34:36

actually think that we can, we

1:34:38

don't have to, it doesn't have to

1:34:41

be boost versus that they can be

1:34:43

conceptually different things. So I'll

1:34:45

give you an example. We actually

1:34:47

have in fountain right now when

1:34:50

someone sends a boost or leaves

1:34:53

the comment on an episode that

1:34:55

is from a

1:34:57

show that's not value enabled or

1:34:59

somebody creates a clip or somebody replies

1:35:01

to a boost or a comment. We

1:35:04

have paid lunch where you

1:35:07

send sats in the form of a like

1:35:09

and to me that is

1:35:11

the equivalent of a zap on

1:35:13

Noster which is more light touch.

1:35:16

There isn't, it's

1:35:18

less thought through whereas a boost

1:35:20

within podcasting 2.0 is something that

1:35:24

you do because you really enjoyed that

1:35:26

content and you're sending a message along

1:35:29

with it and so I think that we

1:35:31

can kind of maintain that

1:35:33

difference and I actually think the

1:35:36

boosts are much more powerful because they

1:35:38

are more considered by the listener and

1:35:40

then the zaps can still be there

1:35:42

in the cross out comments or chat

1:35:45

spec but the zaps apply at the

1:35:47

comment level rather than at

1:35:49

the episode or show level like the boost

1:35:51

did. Yeah

1:35:56

so where does that zap go? So

1:36:00

that would go to the person that left

1:36:02

the comment. So for example, if I send

1:36:05

a 100,000 sat boost to this show and

1:36:07

then somebody else and they could

1:36:11

be a fountain, yes or no, they

1:36:13

could be a pod version or on

1:36:15

any of the apps because those comments

1:36:17

would be visible everywhere, they could zap

1:36:19

my boost and then I receive maybe

1:36:21

like 10 sat or 20 sat. Yeah.

1:36:28

Yeah, that would definitely work. I'm

1:36:31

just looking for deeper integration. I don't know. I

1:36:33

think it may be Bolt 12. Jesus

1:36:38

help us. Bolt

1:36:41

12 would solve a lot of this I

1:36:43

think. To me, it's really just a wallet

1:36:45

problem. It's just a

1:36:47

wallet problem. It is. So,

1:36:50

we can firmly say that lightning,

1:36:54

that LND specifically, but

1:36:57

lightning in general, LND specifically is

1:37:01

still a very real limiting factor.

1:37:03

Yeah. It has problems

1:37:06

that are difficult to

1:37:08

overcome and their lack of support

1:37:10

for some of these basic things like Bolt

1:37:12

12, it

1:37:15

is a problem. Our node is

1:37:17

still a very complex thing to

1:37:19

run. They're transitioning

1:37:21

to SQLite. They still have all

1:37:25

this channel and they still have force channel

1:37:27

closures that they're trying to deal with. I

1:37:30

mean, I just want to be realistic here. I

1:37:32

mean, let's not paint too rosy of a picture

1:37:35

and say that LND is

1:37:37

a problem. I wish it

1:37:39

was better. Hey, I'm going to stop the math talk

1:37:41

here. I think we should play a song just so

1:37:43

we can take a breath. Yeah. Did

1:37:46

we do that? No one

1:37:48

gave me any suggestions. So, I just pulled

1:37:50

something that fits right into the Bitcoin ethos.

1:37:53

This is Joe

1:37:55

Martin, Man Like Quicks, and

1:37:58

Richard, and Joe Martin who... sounds

1:38:00

like he's from Nashville normally, all of a sudden

1:38:02

he has his Birmingham accent is back and

1:38:05

they did a killer track which is

1:38:08

climbing up the charts everywhere kids. This is

1:38:10

called Rise and Freeze. This

1:38:12

is called Rise and Freeze. This

1:39:12

is called Rise and Freeze. This

1:39:17

is called Rise and Freeze.

1:39:24

This is called Rise and Freeze.

1:39:34

This is called Rise and Freeze. This

1:39:50

is called Rise and Freeze. faster

1:40:01

than the past so hear

1:40:04

me yes

1:40:33

yes yes

1:40:40

yes yes yes

1:40:49

yes yes

1:40:55

rise and shine please rise

1:40:58

free from the bombs and the shackles that they made

1:41:00

for us rise free from

1:41:02

the bombs that they forged and paid for us

1:41:05

rise free from

1:41:08

the bombs and the shackles that they made for us rise

1:41:10

free every day until we are breathless

1:41:14

I'm rising free with these twenty-four

1:41:16

little words I'm rising free for

1:41:18

slavery no longer I serve the

1:41:20

system created to keep a man

1:41:22

down I'm rising free until

1:41:25

the day they carry me on my shield

1:41:27

after I meet them down I'm

1:41:29

rising free I'm rising

1:41:31

free from the lies they told us I'm

1:41:34

rising free from the lies they showed us I'm

1:41:37

rising free from all that's controlled us I'm

1:41:40

rising free no one can hold us I'm

1:41:44

rising free now are

1:41:46

you? revolutionary

1:41:53

there's a good discussion in

1:41:57

the boardroom Yeah,

1:42:00

in the boardroom about about

1:42:03

it's like well not noster

1:42:05

or activity pub for cross-out

1:42:07

comments and it's you

1:42:09

don't have to choose one. Yeah, you can use whatever you

1:42:11

want. You can choose either one. Yeah,

1:42:13

so social interact tag you can have more

1:42:16

than one and it has a priority field

1:42:18

in it in a priority attribute where you could

1:42:20

even say okay, I want I'm going

1:42:22

to support I'm gonna put three of them in here

1:42:24

one's gonna be activity pub that'll be noster and want

1:42:26

to be something else and you can say I prioritize

1:42:29

activity pub but I've also got to put a noster

1:42:31

thing in it doesn't mean it's gonna work because apps

1:42:33

still have to support it and

1:42:35

the most support is around activity

1:42:37

pub but it doesn't mean

1:42:40

like these all these tags that

1:42:43

we're putting into the namespace first and

1:42:45

foremost priority number one is to make them open. Yeah.

1:42:48

Where they're flexible enough to

1:42:50

support any protocol right now or in

1:42:53

the future so you can define it

1:42:55

in there and you can

1:42:57

put it in there and then maybe apps will

1:42:59

evolve to support it but you're

1:43:02

not living with the namespace is

1:43:04

not constraining you to a specific

1:43:06

protocol. You can do whatever you want and I

1:43:09

think that's the way it should be. Yeah.

1:43:13

Shall we thank a few people? Oh

1:43:15

yeah, for sure. Let me

1:43:17

see we got a couple of booths that came in live. I

1:43:20

think we have most of them so let me see

1:43:23

what we have here. We have Sir Sean

1:43:25

Reiser with a thousand sats. He says I

1:43:27

am boosting as I quote migrate a server.

1:43:31

We know what you're up to.

1:43:36

I understood. Check

1:43:38

your logs. Check

1:43:41

your logs. Dude. Eric

1:43:43

PP 33 33 no message. Dreb

1:43:47

Scott 23456. He

1:43:50

just says booze. Thank you very much.

1:43:52

We have a phone wrecker with 10,000

1:43:54

sats and he says testing the live

1:43:56

feed in fountain today on the lunch break. You just

1:43:58

heard him coming. rssblue.com

1:44:00

boosting London from London.

1:44:04

There you go. Yes, of course that is true.

1:44:06

We do have Oscars in

1:44:08

our split for the Toys Play Live. That's a

1:44:10

cross town boost. That is right. From

1:44:12

North London to South London, who knows? Let

1:44:15

me see, Dreb Scott with 11.11. D,

1:44:18

let me see, I think that's,

1:44:22

that is all that I have for the

1:44:24

live boost, yeah. I think that's it.

1:44:28

We got

1:44:30

a couple of one-off PayPal this week, which is fun. We

1:44:33

got, I'll see,

1:44:35

where is it? Yeah, there it is. We

1:44:37

got Jesse Hunter. No note, but Jesse sent

1:44:39

us $10. Thank you, Jesse.

1:44:41

Thank you, Jesse, nice. Appreciate

1:44:45

that. And from Kyle Bondo

1:44:48

at GagglePod, sent us $50. GagglePod.

1:44:51

Thank you, Kyle. Nice. GagglePod.

1:44:54

And his message is, greetings, with every

1:44:56

10 developer questions I ask, Dave, I

1:44:58

will send in my swear jar earnings.

1:45:00

My hosting platform, Once Told, is

1:45:02

almost podcasting 2.0 ready. And

1:45:05

it is thanks to you both. Keep riding

1:45:07

the boost lightning. Cheers, Kyle Bondo from GagglePod.

1:45:10

Where is riding the boost lightning? Where'd

1:45:12

that one go? Yeah. Oh, hold

1:45:14

on, man. Ooh. Ooh. There

1:45:17

it is, riding the boost lightning. Ooh. There

1:45:19

it is. Oh, we

1:45:21

got some, I got some boosts. We got

1:45:24

Gene Everett, Gene Bean, 3333 through fountain. He

1:45:27

says, man, this guest is lost on his

1:45:29

YouTube take. How many holes can be

1:45:32

poked into their? Wait, this is from last

1:45:34

week. This

1:45:37

is Benjamin.

1:45:41

Oh, Benjamin. Oh, he's talking about Benjamin. Yes.

1:45:44

So many holes can be poked into there.

1:45:47

You should have known this would be my least

1:45:49

favorite guest on here ever when

1:45:51

they couldn't answer a simple question early

1:45:53

on and instead got rude and said,

1:45:55

what is this, a political podcast? Hey,

1:45:57

he's French. He's French, yeah.

1:46:00

That's just how they talk. If

1:46:03

you don't have anything nice to say, don't

1:46:05

boost it all. The

1:46:09

French always sound like they're pissed off. It's just what they

1:46:11

do. It's just French. No,

1:46:13

there was no offense anywhere in Untaken and

1:46:16

I thought it was an interesting point that he made about

1:46:18

not, okay, we're not all

1:46:20

fans of advertising but he said his

1:46:23

point was why let

1:46:25

one company take all the advertising when we could

1:46:27

have an open system. I didn't think that was

1:46:29

a bad thing to say at all. Benjamin

1:46:34

is a sweet, sweet human being.

1:46:38

For a French man. I

1:46:40

think you may have misunderstood. Yeah, I think so

1:46:42

too. Sajula

1:46:45

Richards in the morning says,

1:46:47

Fountain 1111 boost. Okay,

1:46:49

well thank you. In the morning view. In the

1:46:51

morning view. Nicholas B58,

1:46:53

10,000 sats. Fountain,

1:46:56

he says, boosting from my

1:46:58

road trip to a local Bitcoin meetup.

1:47:00