0:00

Adam Curry: On casting 2.0 For April 2024, episode 175

0:05

Everyone's an actor Hey, hello, everybody, welcome to

0:11

podcasting. 2.0 Before we get started That's right. Once again

0:21

for the official board meeting of podcasting and podcasting 2.0

0:26

We got it all happened here everything going on a podcast

0:29

index.org one is up with podcasting two.org podcast index

0:33

dot social. And of course we are the only boardroom that

0:36

encourages breaking your NDA. I'm Adam curry here in the heart

0:39

of the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama, the man who reads

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Chesterton's neritic so you don't have to say hello to my

0:46

friend on the other end. Dave Jones.

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Dave Jones: Hang on one sec. I'm sending a boost. Adam Curry: What are you doing? What are you doing? What are you

0:55

doing? Dave Jones: I'm seeing the booster pod news weekly review.

0:58

Oh, rich guest or OKC rich guest or a pod casts network.

1:07

Adam Curry: I thought exactly the same thing. And I'm like,

1:10

okay, so rich guy starts a podcast network thinks he can

1:14

monetize the network hires five celebrities, one of which was

1:17

the host of Big Brother UK. And boy, it's gonna be different.

1:23

Dave Jones: This time, it's gonna rip this time. Adam Curry: This time, it'll really work.

1:31

Dave Jones: For you all the times it didn't this. This one's different.

1:33

Adam Curry: I mean, is this guy basically the British Mark Cuban

1:37

is that isn't he from Dragon's Den?

1:41

Dave Jones: That seems like exactly what this this is

1:43

fireside chat all over again. Or whatever that thing was. Well,

1:46

actually he'll get Okay. Okay. I know. We don't have a red book

1:50

for predictions. Yeah. I don't know what we have. But I want to

1:53

make a prediction. Right. Okay. April the 12th at 12:35pm.

1:59

Adam Curry: Here we go. All right. Dave Jones: Steven Bart. Bartlett. Yes. Will will be the

2:05

keynote speaker at next at Podcast Movement. Next year.

2:12

Maybe this year. sometime within the next two years, he will be a

2:17

keynote speaker at Podcast Movement, aka you know, Allah,

2:21

Mark Cuban. Adam Curry: The only thing that that I thought I might make this

2:26

a little bit different is it's not just flight studio, which is

2:31

their podcast, podcast network. But they have flight story.

2:39

Which is Oh, it's a it's a marketing communications

2:42

company. So so they'll be making branded podcasts pretty soon.

2:49

Hey, look at all these stars. Look at all the stars. We can

2:52

have host your content. Yeah. This

2:56

Dave Jones: is so the I Adam Curry: mean, it's just so obvious that this has been done

3:00

over and over again and it just keeps failing. This

3:04

Dave Jones: is not a pod casts network. This is a let's be

3:09

honest, this is a YouTube Play is what this is. Yeah.

3:13

Adam Curry: Yes, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah.

3:16

Dave Jones: First excuse me video. Code for YouTube. Because

3:20

that's the only video that even matters at all in any anywhere

3:24

in the world. You got one video platform, YouTube. That's it.

3:29

Well, Adam Curry: I will say I saw something today. I boosted it. I

3:34

boosted it on podcast index dot social distinct called own cast.

3:40

Own catheter. Cast yes own cast is a I guess to make it simple.

3:48

It's like Twitch for activity pub.

3:54

Dave Jones: I didn't see this poster of yours. Where's Adam

4:00

at? Private? Adam Curry: That's right. I was boosting myself. Yeah, well, you

4:08

can go to own cast. Oh, Oscar whiskey November owned cast dot

4:13

online boon cast.on

4:16

Dave Jones: Oh TLD on cast dot online. friable Yeah, yeah, no,

4:21

this isn't this a fork of something.

4:24

Adam Curry: I don't know. Unknown: Maybe I'm wrong. That Adam Curry: could be your live stream can reach a wider

4:29

audience on the fediverse allowing people to follow and

4:32

share your stream on Mastodon and other fediverse services. So

4:36

I saw this and I thought, oh, that's me. I know they do HLS

4:40

video streams or whatever it is. It just made me excited again

4:46

about social interact and how powerful we will be when we

4:52

start to implement some of this. I'm just going to start talking

4:54

in the different holes now. We will we will have our yes

5:00

Because imagine a community of apps. Imagine that imagine where

5:06

your audience doesn't just live on one app, it can live across

5:09

apps, how we can connect, how we can actually measure success.

5:16

These aren't just connect communities interconnect between

5:19

shows, music networks, this is all stuff I wrote down this

5:22

morning. Dave Jones: Grow your show.

5:27

Adam Curry: All right, you just blew everything grow your show.

5:32

Your show? Well, actually, yeah, you could grow your show. I

5:36

mean, it it's becoming, it's the point where like, I'm gonna have

5:41

to build an app, because I want other person

5:44

Dave Jones: to Adam, please build an app.

5:47

Adam Curry: And it'll be me and Sam Southie doing this.

5:50

Dave Jones: Please, please build it. Adam Curry: I mean, I mean, I see so much possibility. Imagine

5:58

if I mean, all the all the cross pollenization where you can, you

6:06

can literally grow your show. I hate to say it. But in fact, we

6:10

just kind of hijack that grow. Your show was socially interact.

6:14

Of course, you can grow your show. Because then you can see

6:18

across apps as an app developers like, hey, I can I can surface

6:23

stuff that people are following or subscribe to on all apps, not

6:28

just mine, on all apps. Now I can see ratings. I think, I

6:35

think I'm just calling it social interact. Because somehow the

6:40

common thing is just freaking everybody. I don't care. I don't

6:43

even care if it's comments. I don't care. I just want the

6:46

connection between the apps. Dave Jones: Actually best if it's not comments.

6:51

Adam Curry: I agree. Dave Jones: I agree. I don't know what that means. But, but

6:55

Adam Curry: I like it. I like it felt like Yeah, it feels good.

6:58

If you say Dave Jones: things that you feel, and you figure out what

7:00

they mean later, Adam Curry: I mean, it's just just subscribe numbers. Just

7:05

subscribe, hey, I subscribe this stuff, interactions

7:11

Dave Jones: as well, you're talking to them like,

7:15

immediately, I started thinking about what airhead posted the

7:19

other day? Adam Curry: What I usually read his stuff, what do you post? He,

7:24

Dave Jones: he was talking about audio books. And he was saying

7:30

that he was having a hard time finding any apps that supported

7:36

audio books in the way that you would expect them to be

7:40

supported. And sorry, I just why don't you just find this post

7:48

and Adam Curry: what did you do? That

7:53

Dave Jones: just had an add moment? Comment from John

7:56

Spurlock testing Adam Curry: audio book support are there and the apps I've

8:01

tested so far show the chapters in the order they show up in the

8:04

RSS feed ignoring both the episode numbers and the order

8:06

display director for Are there any afterwards? This works?

8:09

Okay. I understand. Okay. Dave Jones: Yeah. Basically, there's there's there's

8:13

production of audio book taking place podcast. But there's no

8:18

apps that read those feeds as if they were what they're supposed

8:22

to be and audio. Yeah. So there's no, there's no audio

8:25

book app. There's what is when he writes, right, right. And

8:30

that's a problem that needs to be solved. It's too bad. And I'm

8:35

going to do it. I'm going to solve if nobody else has a problem. I'm going to write an audio book.

8:38

Adam Curry: Why don't you and I just build an app, you

8:41

Dave Jones: build the app that you said you wanted to Adam Curry: build? You build the app. Now. Let's build the app

8:45

together. So I'll be like, This is how we do it. David, you go.

8:48

Okay. And like we always do it.

8:52

Dave Jones: Hey, should do this. Okay. Adam Curry: We did it for 12 years, by the way, we're on

8:58

episode 175. I think we are officially three and a half

9:03

years into this thing. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, three and a

9:07

half years, I think. Dave Jones: Yeah. I didn't get you anything.

9:12

Adam Curry: Sorry. I sent you a very expensive gift as I always

9:15

do. You did? Not.

9:19

Dave Jones: Sir. Three weeks or three years, six month anniversary, sweetheart. I'm not. I'm not actually joking

9:28

about that. I mentioned this to somebody probably a while back.

9:33

And I really do want to write an audio book app. Yeah. Yeah. I

9:39

want to just get a basic something out there. Because

9:42

nobody seems interested. And, and you know, we're not we're

9:46

not competing with apps here. That's anathema. But if it's,

9:50

what I'm talking about is something that does purely

9:52

audiobooks. And then it only shows audio book, excuse me.

9:58

Medium equals audio book. It feeds in then, as soon as

10:02

somebody else adds audiobook support to their app, or as soon

10:05

as somebody else writes an app that does audiobooks, I'll just

10:08

yank it. Adam Curry: And in this audio book app, do you envision

10:13

chapters? Or is it episodes of an audio book and an audiobook

10:19

be something that is serialized so so so for instance, let's say

10:24

Adam liked that idea so much that he wanted to create his

10:28

audio book of his life, which is

10:33

Dave Jones: the subtitle will help you have a working subtitle

10:36

Yes, yes, Adam Curry: yes. held hostage by my hair is the subtitle my life

10:43

my life in media held hostage by my hair. Yes, that is my title.

10:48

My Dave Jones: Autobiography will be Dave Jones. Oh crap.

10:53

Adam Curry: So if you build the app, I'll record the book. Okay,

10:58

yeah, for sure. For sure it's

11:00

Dave Jones: a it's a deal handshake handshake

11:03

Adam Curry: it is right but But going back to social interact I

11:09

just don't know how to motivate people I think that I'm just I'm

11:11

just flapping in the wind like curry doesn't know what he's

11:14

talking about. He's got no ideas yet these ideas are never any

11:18

good. Dave Jones: That's why the audio book thing piqued my he like

11:21

popped up into my head is because when you when you sit

11:26

it's like, there can be discussions about audiobooks

11:29

There you go audiobooks. Comments are clearly but then

11:32

there's also going to be like, I can see like recommendation

11:36

activity public recommendation engines and stuff like that that

11:39

could come out of it. You know, Adam Curry: I hate to say this, but I'm gonna say thank you.

11:42

Thank you for the boost interruption pew pew. What's

11:46

been on my mind a lot lately and and please take this with, with

11:51

the love that I'm saying this. Advertising has been on my mind

11:56

a lot. And I wouldn't say advertising is the right word.

11:59

But underwriting underwriting corporate sponsorship

12:06

advertising, call it whatever you want. Because while we all

12:11

see that the advertising model for podcast is severely broken,

12:15

it just doesn't work. I mean, it's not it's not a it's not

12:19

trustworthy. How about that, then it's not trustworthy,

12:22

because it's not it's like Nielsen's aren't trustworthy,

12:28

either. But everybody trust them, you know, the IAB thing is

12:31

just not panning out. And, and I still think that it would be to

12:37

everybody's benefit if we could figure some of that out. And

12:40

this also works with social interact. Because there are many

12:49

things that we can ask listeners to that podcasters can ask

12:53

listeners to do like, turn on the listen button to support

12:58

support me while I tell you about this great product. And if

13:03

we all did that we could be the platform recognizable by the new

13:08

podcasting to logo. Yeah, yes. That would actually have some

13:13

accurate listen numbers at you know, and I wouldn't use it

13:18

because I'm just not into, into messing up my con. It's just not

13:22

how I live I live value for value. But we'd be foolish,

13:26

foolish if we didn't capture this obvious opportunity. It's

13:31

an obvious opportunity. Because when when the money comes to

13:37

the, to the places where the apps are, the audience comes the

13:40

users come. I was just something to think about.

13:46

Dave Jones: Yeah, so the the ad so are you talking about are you

13:54

talking about advertising as far as in listens and stuff like

13:58

that? You don't the accuracy of all that kind of thing? Yeah.

14:01

Based on like, well, there's, Adam Curry: there's a couple of things. But first of all, I love

14:08

the DI direct inquiry. I love it when someone I mean, we know

14:12

agenda as an example. So we have Linda Lou Potkin who donates

14:17

$200 Every show she'd be doing it for over two years now, I

14:21

think. And all she says is you know what, I think she has a

14:27

resume she does executive resumes. And she doesn't she

14:31

doesn't, you know, I don't even remember what the what the

14:34

domain name is. But she doesn't even mention that just look for

14:36

me, Linda patcon and we got some other guy who donates $200

14:39

Almost every every show, which is by the way I gigawatt Coffee

14:43

Roasters use code ITM 20. Now, is that advertising? I don't

14:47

have to read it. I don't mind reading it. It's probably a

14:50

great CPM. If I thought about it, I don't know it doesn't

14:52

matter. Button in that that type of stuff. I always like you

14:56

know, obviously something's working for them, otherwise they

14:58

wouldn't be donating that Yeah, and it's you know, it for me

15:03

it's value. There's always a note about the show. It's not

15:05

just about, but I'm not gonna read ad copy, we just don't do

15:07

that. But we have a boost button, why not have a click

15:13

through button? This whole bunch of things that we just because

15:20

we are value for value, I think we're selling ourselves short of

15:23

a great opportunity. That's all I'm saying.

15:28

Dave Jones: But I don't know what you mean. Like,

15:32

Adam Curry: what I mean, or what I mean, is that the advertising

15:35

is not working on podcasting, because there's no way to

15:39

measure success. Right, by implementing things that allow

15:46

the users to feed back, like I listened to this, or, Hey, we

15:53

could do right now in a Chapter, you know, look at your phone

15:56

right now. Click on the link in the chapters. Dave Jones: I think as a way, let me see. Let me see if I

16:01

understand what you're saying. Because there's lots of barf

16:03

going on in the chat room. Yeah. Because, Adam Curry: yeah, I understand that. But you know, you're

16:08

idiots. Go ahead and circle around like a bunch of turns

16:12

into pisspot. The opportunity is huge right now. I'm not going to

16:16

do I'm not going to do advertising. But there's

16:19

millions of people who want this. And they're going to

16:23

YouTube. Great. Meanwhile, Mitch, Mitch is struggling.

16:29

Everybody's struggling, because there's no money coming in.

16:34

Dave Jones: I think I understand what you're saying, though. But

16:36

I think what you're, if I understand it, you're saying

16:41

that the the way advertising is, is has been done is

16:47

traditionally always been done within podcasting. That method

16:53

clearly does not work Correct. For night, let's just say for

16:57

99% of podcasters. That does not work. And that is an end. So

17:03

we've, we've lumped when we talk about advertising, we talk about

17:08

it in those terms. But there is another way. The in the other

17:14

way is value for value. But advertising, our advertisers are

17:21

welcome at the Adam Curry: table. Why not? Yeah.

17:24

Dave Jones: Because like, it's like somebody? Well, I mean,

17:26

think about it. That's what isn't. Adam Curry: Do you hate your Do you hate your television?

17:30

Because you can also watch a channel with ads? No, you just

17:34

don't watch the channel with ads. Dave Jones: Okay, well, maybe I'm still Mr. Just because

17:39

because what I'm thinking is like, I mean, people, pot page,

17:44

by page sins, 25 bucks to US a month to help us out. Because

17:50

they because Brendon over there appreciates what we were doing

17:53

here. But also it helps. It's an advertisement for him. Like I

17:56

mean, he gets we say that we say that we say pod page, every

18:00

shirt shirt is so like, it's not I think I think I understand. I

18:05

think I'm understanding that you're saying value for value is

18:09

not advertiser. advertiser exclusion, exclusionary?

18:14

Adam Curry: I think you're correct. Okay, sir. Cal from

18:18

lavender, Lavender blossoms.org. I mean, we haven't lost people,

18:22

because these people come in and donate. We haven't lost that

18:25

boat. I have no way to help them. measure the success of

18:31

what they're doing. Dave Jones: Do but Right. Yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah. And also how

18:36

to write but they evidently can, because they keep doing it.

18:39

Well, they are they have a feel for Adam Curry: an ROI. They have an ROI that obviously is working

18:43

somehow. But beyond that, but beyond that. Podcast stats,

18:49

they're useless. They really are. They're useless. If I ask

18:54

people, Hey, I'd like to know who's listening. Could you could

18:58

you could you toggle that button in your app, people will do it.

19:01

But I'm not asking you to send me your your life. I'm just

19:04

saying, Hey, I just want to know if you listen to something how

19:06

far you listen to something. Now, we kind of have that with

19:09

streaming sets, which is where this comes from, because I love

19:12

those statistics. I'd love that. I'm just saying that. As

19:17

podcast. Infrastructure developers forget the content

19:21

for a second because there's nothing that I hate more than

19:23

pre rolls mid rolls. I hate that. I hate dynamically

19:27

inserted ads. I hate ads on the radio. I hate ads on television.

19:31

I hate it all I hate. It's offensive. I don't like it. But

19:37

even pivot which is a show I hate which I which I forced

19:41

myself to listen to. I'll listen to their ads that they are

19:45

reading because they read them. And they're actually interesting

19:48

ads because they're products that you don't typically hear

19:51

about. So, value value for value. Just put that over here

19:56

for a second as a as a complete platform. Just think about how

20:01

powerful it would be. If this group of apps over here had ways

20:06

for you as a marketer, I'm not saying an advertiser a marketer

20:10

to measure success, whatever that means to you, because we

20:15

have connected these apps into something much bigger. It may

20:19

be, maybe it's just to see the rating of your ratings, real

20:24

ratings are bullcrap. It's just it's just to get higher on the

20:28

on the on the iTunes chart. But to have real subscriber numbers

20:34

that are across this, you know, 20 apps. We're not doing that is

20:40

we're just missing out. We're missing out on a huge

20:44

opportunity. We're the only group that can do it, and we

20:46

would kill everybody. Dave Jones: Yeah, I think I think I understand what you're

20:54

saying. It's a way you can say, well, it's this, this goes back

21:00

to that way of thinking where you say, like the Apple,

21:05

Microsoft thing we, we don't have to, they don't have to lose

21:08

for us to win. Adam Curry: Yeah, you can say that. You can say that.

21:13

Dave Jones: Yeah. Because you say, Well, I'm not gonna, I'm

21:18

not going to change or my content or censor my content or

21:24

anything like that. I'm still in control of my content. And if

21:29

you want to participate in value for value as an advertiser,

21:32

you're free to you're welcome to do so. You're more than you're

21:34

more than Yes. Yes. We're glad for you to participate. But

21:38

you're not. But we're not going to do. But we're not going to be

21:43

quote, ad supported. No, not. Oh,

21:46

Adam Curry: yeah. Again, again, television cable. So it's all

21:50

great platforms. Right? It's great platforms. I don't hate it

21:55

because there are channels on that platform that shabads I

21:59

don't hate my television. I just don't watch that. But I am using

22:04

a television, I'm using that device, abusing that app, to

22:08

give give give, give the money, people some reason to come and

22:12

use stuff, and maybe change what advertising means in the

22:15

meantime, you know, because for sure, what's hurting us right

22:20

now is pre rolls, I would say 60 to 70% of people, when they get

22:27

a pre roll think the app is doing it? Yeah. It's

22:31

unbelievable. I pay premium for pod verse, how come I'm getting

22:36

ads. It's, It's sickening. We need we need to get rid of that.

22:44

Well, Dave Jones: in you know, and we're kind of just speaking for

22:47

us on this, you know, show in the podcast index, we were kind

22:51

of already doing that. Because if, like, I mean, that might

22:55

we're doing that mindset, because people ask us from time

22:58

to time, like, you know, hey, can we use the index? Or can we

23:02

do this kind of thing, and they want to have some sort of financial arrangement? And we always, our standard response is

23:07

always just No, I mean, if you know, you use it, and if you

23:10

like it, donate and we'll read your yes, we'll read your

23:13

donation on, you know, on the show, and you'll get, you'll get

23:16

the publicity that way. But you're just gonna line up and

23:20

donate like everybody else, you know, this special platform

23:23

privileges, yes. And if you know, and you don't have to, if

23:27

you don't want to, but beyond Adam Curry: that, Dave, just as a platform was just think out of

23:31

the box for a second. And for me, there's, you've got an RSS

23:35

feed with enclosures, whether that's music, whether that's an

23:39

audio book, whether it's whether it's a long form podcast,

23:42

whether it's a Bible sermon, whether it's you just doing

23:46

Gregorian chants, that's a podcast, I don't care. I don't

23:50

care if there's no difference to me. But if we really want to

23:58

lift up what we're doing here, we would be in and we are being

24:02

very jihadist about the advertising part, the market

24:07

when we could just call it marketing and not advertising then as better. And if we can connect all of our apps. So that

24:17

podcasters This is the number one I think podcasters can grow

24:21

their show, because there's interaction between apps. So

24:26

it's not just one app, it's 10 or 15, or 20 apps, that all have

24:32

some kind of interaction, but I like my app for you know, for

24:35

the stuff it does for me. Now, some people like the processing

24:39

of the sound, the skipping the speed button, the way it

24:41

portrays art, um, there's all different reasons. It's a very

24:44

personal thing. But the but that we can have we really feel like

24:51

we need to connect into some form of platform because then

24:55

we'll be will be, we will accelerate past What the so

25:00

called Big boys can do? Dave Jones: Did you know I mean, I get where you're coming from

25:08

on the technology side of that with activity pub. And the way

25:12

that that could could enable something like that as the

25:16

attribution and stuff. I just, it's like, but once you go down

25:19

that road, then you're, then that's where the that's where

25:23

the scam start. And that's where the fraudulent what scam? What

25:27

Adam Curry: were you talking about? Dave Jones: Are you talking? You're talking about enabling

25:31

some sort of attribution over activitypub? No, no, I'm

25:33

Adam Curry: talking about attribution. No, no, no. Like a

25:36

social interact. Yeah, social interest. So yeah, so but that's

25:41

not that's not to attribution. I have no interest in attribution.

25:45

I'm talking about social interact. Yes, I like this. Yes.

25:48

I've subscribed to this. Yes. So follow this. Here's what I have

25:51

to say about this. Yes, I listened to this. All these

25:56

things are social interactions that benefit the show, benefit

26:00

the community around each show benefit cross community, because

26:04

the eye can see an app, then saying, Wow, here's a

26:09

recommendation. And you could eat them in technically, you

26:14

could recommend a show that's doing well over on your app to

26:18

someone who's listening on another app. I mean, you

26:20

understand what I'm saying? Like activity throb enables, it's a

26:24

whole new world of things that we can enable. And yes,

26:28

marketers can benefit from that as well. in new ways, not with

26:33

dynamic ad insertion in new ways.

26:37

Dave Jones: You're just saying you're saying that those new

26:39

ways are interacting with the show through activity pub

26:44

channels. Adam Curry: Well, whatever. I don't know if you call it

26:47

channels or whatever, whatever. Yeah, I mean, it just seems to

26:51

me the word is the whole world is connecting to activity, pub.

26:55

And all and I mean, why can't we, when I see that, what is it

27:00

called? own caste? I'm like, huh, there's something there.

27:05

But shouldn't an own cast and all that if it's a twitch like

27:09

experience, should that flow into my podcast app? Or do I

27:12

know have to go to an own cast webpage?

27:15

Dave Jones: Well, I mean, peer to peer tube is fully identity

27:19

pub enabled ensures that. Sure. Adam Curry: And, and all this stuff works on my app I've been

27:24

I hate to think, oh, there's video. Okay, that works fine.

27:27

But I can't do like the own cast live chat. No.

27:34

Dave Jones: Well, okay, well, let's, let's let's twist here

27:39

into that, because awesome. Oskar, ping me on email and said

27:47

that his noster fountain live chat relay thing is, is open,

27:53

and he's got some instructions on how that's how that works. So

27:58

I will be starting to bridge that as soon as possible, so

28:03

that we can get the get live chat.

28:09

Adam Curry: In I wish I wish we had I wish we had the same

28:12

energy that that 10s of developers are putting into

28:16

noster as we in activity pub.

28:22

Dave Jones: I really do. We do know, there's the Oh, I think I

28:27

think I think you're mistaken on that. I mean, the energy, the

28:31

energy of activity Pub is 1000 to one versus noster and because

28:35

it's just distributed Adam Curry: no one you but no one's putting that into our

28:40

apps. Instead Dave Jones: of having a 15 developers working on stuff and

28:44

nostre you have you know, 1500 developers working on stuff and

28:47

activity pub, except for our developers. Right? Oh, yes. Yes.

28:53

Okay. I misunderstood your point. Yeah. Are the the 2.0

28:57

people seem well, I mean, the ones that are the ones that are

29:02

super active right now into being nostril related but Oh,

29:06

Adam Curry: yes. I mean we have we have true fans and this is what I like about Sam Sam is implementing a lot of stuff but

29:14

there's no one else is doing it. So he just kind of out there in

29:18

the whim flapping away. Well,

29:20

Dave Jones: that's what I'm trying to bring. That's what I'm

29:22

trying to bring the nostril fountain stuff over to activity

29:25

pub, that's what I'm trying to bridge everything over is

29:28

because that you know, there there's one I want to take that

29:32

energy you know, and instead of it just like evaporating into

29:39

the void, redirect it back redirect that nostril

29:44

development energy back into activity pub ecosystem, I gotcha

29:50

so that we can get the benefit of and it doesn't just like I

29:53

Adam Curry: got you. But that's that's basically just Colorado

29:58

Dave Jones: forgot about Cassiopeia. Yeah,

30:02

Adam Curry: I mean, yeah, what is in Castle is? What is

30:05

Dave Jones: fully activitypub enabled from the ground up to

30:09

everything, Adam Curry: as opposed to Yes. As a hosting site. Yes,

30:12

absolutely. Absolutely. So you know, it's there. But we I don't

30:17

I just don't understand why we haven't connected at all because

30:20

it to me, it's like I just see this super, super opportunity

30:26

for the for app developers. Dave Jones: What do you think about it, though? I kind of it

30:30

kind of makes sense of what, of where we are as far as what, you

30:35

know, we're. I see. I see. I see. Everything isn't it isn't a

30:39

very strange place. Because I failed. Dave, understatement of

30:45

the universe. The universe. Yeah, the you have this. Say, Go

30:56

ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Well, you had Twitter, and Twitter.

31:00

The Twitter's sort of implosion was rapid. It was in and then

31:05

you had before you had Mastodon that was that was sort of the

31:10

flagship of activity, pub, applications and use cases.

31:16

Activity Pub is sort of like the trajectory of it is very similar

31:22

to the trajectory of nostre. As far as agree that ever the

31:26

phases that it went through, agreed in Macedon started a long

31:31

time ago, as this as the flag bearer for activity pub, as the

31:38

alternative to Twitter, when Twitter was still strong. So you

31:42

had this so what what Mastodon when it was Mastodon wanted to

31:46

be was an alternative to Twitter. And it was going to use

31:50

activity pub to make that happen. So it got a share a

31:53

share of usage, based on that mental model. This is an alt,

31:59

Twitter. And so then Twitter imploded and Mastodon went, it

32:08

just went through the roof. And so activity pub, therefore went

32:11

through the roof. And these other sort of more under the

32:17

radar, activity, pub app, projects, like pixel fed and

32:25

these kinds of things came, came onto the CN, N, peer tube and

32:29

the N caster pod and these other applications, they were trying

32:35

to do something with something deeper than just be a clone of a

32:39

social network. And they just, they are just now beginning to

32:44

emerge. Because the social network aspect of activity, pub

32:49

became the dominant narrative. And that same thing happened on

32:53

noster. It you know, Nasir became the alt Twitter for

32:58

Bitcoin bros. And then it has, it cannot seem to break out of

33:04

that idea. And so it's take it takes a long time for people to

33:09

get past the notion of the thing that the thing that was the

33:13

dominant use case of a thing is really all you do is all you can

33:18

do. Adam Curry: Okay, I completely agree. And so but here's the

33:21

exception that that gets me all excited when I go to podcast

33:26

index.org and I go to this show, or any of my shows, really, and

33:32

I click on comments, it doesn't look like a social network. It

33:36

doesn't feel like Mastodon or Twitter or threads. It looks

33:41

like oh, there's some cool comments that that's the

33:45

difference right there. But I believe that people between apps

33:53

should be able to collaborate on creating my chapters I mean,

33:59

Daniel J Lewis his life would be changed if we had ratings or

34:05

stars or whatever it is that goes between apps not because I

34:12

think you're right because of the social network aspect

34:17

everybody shy I am I really don't want to part of it. And

34:21

Mastodon you know that I mean, honestly, podcast index dot

34:25

social to me. I love podcasts index dot social. That's the

34:31

first thing I go to everyday it's the last thing I look at at

34:33

night, my own psyops shop which is by the way I've blocked no

34:42

authority dot social from podcasts index dot social

34:44

because I hate that stuff coming into that our little club our

34:49

little area, I despise I despise my own my own master Master, my

34:57

own Mastodon instance, because there's nothing but negativity

35:00

that flows through from Jack offs. It's like it. And I, I'm

35:05

not quite sure what to do with it don't want to curate it. I

35:08

don't know. But I go there last. But podcast index dot social is

35:12

exciting. You know, there's not a lot not too many people you

35:17

know, it's like a small community, which is what to me a

35:21

podcast community is and I'd love to just have, you know, for

35:25

me the root posts of any social interact tag that I fill out on

35:31

my podcast, that's the community there are people who listen to

35:34

that episode. And, and I just want to see that which is not

35:41

available anywhere else into the scale, we could implement it

35:45

with all these extras. I want to see I want to I want to Oh,

35:49

there's Dave Jones. I want to see what other podcasts he's

35:52

listening to. Even though I'm on podcast guru, and you're on

35:55

Casta Matic This is discovery. This is growing your show this

36:00

is growing your penis, I mean, all this stuff.

36:03

Unknown: What did I say this the ad pours? Adam Curry: Well, I'm throwing the ads part in because the the

36:12

marketing part. Because there's, that's where you can reignite

36:17

something and reignited around our apps and take it away from

36:21

the other so called I mean, it's bull crap, it's all bull crap.

36:25

But if if we start to build value amongst each other, and

36:28

amongst our apps will become valuable.

36:33

Dave Jones: This is a thing that's hard for us, I think that

36:39

we're running up against the limits of language here. But I

36:42

think that I fully follow what you're saying. And I think I

36:50

think I'm saying it that way, because it's always difficult to

36:53

tell because you have to, you have to take a set of thoughts

36:57

that are in your own mind and distill them into language, and

37:02

then community and then Trent, you know, give them to me and I

37:05

have to, you know, and distill them yes, and try to mate and

37:09

try to see if they make any sense. In the some meaning is

37:14

lost along every, every every stop on that path. So think

37:19

that, but I think that I follow you. And I think the issue here

37:24

is, is one of at some point, in order to get past the idea that

37:31

activity Pub is just an alternative way to do a social

37:38

network, then there has to be this sort of, you can't just be

37:45

you, it has to have that thought almost has to be completely

37:48

gone. You have to you have to just there has to be this like

37:50

complete Abnegation of the entire, like, notion that

37:58

activity Pub is a social network at all. Correct? You know,

38:03

because the like I hate you know? So podcasting index does

38:09

social. I'm glad you pressed on this because this is this is

38:13

actually bringing up some stuff in my mind and helping me to

38:16

understand some things. Podcasts and digital social is an

38:19

important thing. It's where the community mostly lives in 2.0

38:24

Things get hashed out and now and all that we all know that

38:26

but there's a sense in which I'm happy there but sometimes

38:36

happiness is your gateway to annoy and happiness

38:39

Adam Curry: is a warm gun. Dave Jones. Dave Jones: Wow. Wow. Wow.

38:46

Adam Curry: Sorry little John Lennon reference. I'm Dave Jones: sorry. Okay. Okay. I didn't get the reference. So the

38:55

Yes, yeah. So that can Yeah, you know, you happiness sometimes is

39:00

your sort of gateway to being annoyed. And the the, the

39:05

annoying part is the commit is this sort of endless

39:10

communication that happens back and forth. And I don't like the

39:15

social aspect of it, if it feels artificial. It feels like an

39:22

obligation sometimes. And all of those things and it's not

39:27

anything unique to podcast index dot social is probably better

39:30

than any other community I've ever been involved in on that

39:33

aspect of things. But there is an there is a certain level of

39:37

that the students inherent with social networking. And when you

39:44

think about like, once you break out of that thinking and say,

39:52

okay, activity pub isn't about social networking. It's about

39:59

connect Acting sort of events. It's an it's sort of an event

40:05

connector, yes. Then you, then you can start to move beyond the

40:14

social network parts and the annoyances that that brings, and

40:19

get to something that's truly new. And I feel like one of the

40:23

like, as soon as one of these truly new things occurs, as soon

40:29

as something happens on activity pub that is truly new. And I

40:33

mean in relation to podcasting, and is not just a comment

40:37

engine, then it opens, it's going to be like an eye opener,

40:43

and it opens the doors. And then there's going to be a flood of

40:45

new of new activity that happens, where people say, oh,

40:50

oh, this is what you can do. You could do things like x. And then

40:57

you can, all of a sudden, there'll be this like burst of

41:00

activity that happens along down that going down that road. Well,

41:03

there's already Adam Curry: versions of this. Fountain has their version of

41:09

that, but they're completely closed. You die can see what so

41:13

and so boosted, I can see what so that I can follow someone

41:17

follow those profiles. It's the number one app out of usage, I

41:22

think for sure. To Dave Jones: see that still, that's still a version of chat,

41:27

that's still a version of just commenting Adam Curry: I don't know. But that's not what I'm interested

41:31

in. What I'm interested in is following a person for what

41:33

they're listening to. That's the thing that is if I could say one

41:38

thing that we could do with activity pub, it would be that

41:44

you can, as a user, you can say, Okay, here's, here's the, here's

41:50

the podcast I'm subscribed to, and anybody can follow me. It'd

41:56

be something that I could publish, you know, we've all had

41:59

these, um, you know, automatic posts, I'm listening to so and

42:02

so. But I would like to follow you to see, not only would I

42:07

love it personally, to see what podcasts you're following, or

42:11

which ones you care to share with me which you're following,

42:14

because I believe that's important that you know that some things you may not want me to know. But even maybe I'd like

42:20

to know when you're listening to something. These are social

42:25

things that have been proven time and time to work very

42:28

successfully. So if we take the whole comment thing out, I don't

42:33

care, I really don't care about comments. I care about

42:38

connecting our apps, because I see, okay, this feels to me like

42:42

2000 in 2000, I got on an airplane, I flew to New York,

42:47

and we went to Dave Weiner's hotel room. And by stood there

42:51

and I said, we need to have some kind of attachment to a post on

42:56

the RSS feed. And he thought it was just an assholes Hollywood

43:00

guy coming in to tell him what to do. And then he basically

43:05

threw me out. And I went back the next day, and I went back a

43:08

third time. But I try and I tried to show him in his own

43:12

software, what I was talking about. And then it finally hit

43:17

him. And that was the actual birth of podcasting in 2000. And

43:21

I feel the same way. I feel just as strongly that this and

43:28

believe me, the fact that I'm getting this from Sam Sethi is

43:30

blowing my mind. Because I was I was like nah, Sam, I don't know

43:35

what you're doing over there. It's confusing. I don't get it.

43:37

But then once he interviewed that guy, I forget his name,

43:40

who's the co author of the book that's coming out. I was like,

43:44

Okay, I get it. The everything. I believe everything's going to

43:50

be connected to activity pub one way or the other. It's really an

43:54

inter app sharing protocol.

43:57

Dave Jones: Yeah. Yeah. And this is, in this is, that's really

44:03

what where the strength is. And it's just been I was looking

44:09

through this big list of activity pub projects here in

44:13

this link, and there's like 9% of them are just Mastodon clones

44:19

Adam Curry: at just as an example. When so I have boosted

44:22

Graham ball. I mean, man, there's gotta be a way to have

44:28

activity published activity pub, published about first of all the

44:33

songs that I'm playing. They should be able to tie in easily

44:37

to wherever that song lives easily to that artists profile

44:41

easily to where that artist likes to meet their fans. So if

44:46

artists wants to have that all flow through to a chat or is

44:50

this just called a chat, whatever meeting place, close

44:53

forum, I don't care what you call it. All of that can be done

44:57

seamlessly. Hey, you want to know more about ain't Costello

45:01

just tap on the on the art. Dave Jones: You're shuttled off with Betsy. here's and here's

45:07

what that looks like, though, is because you could this is where

45:13

I think this is important. Rather than just post a note, so

45:21

activity pub theory, your

45:25

Adam Curry: show beer. Dave Jones: Right activity pubs notes, are what get posted on.

45:32

Like, when the act when the podcast index AP bridge posts a

45:36

new episode, you're getting a you're creating a note is what

45:42

the object is called. And you rather than here's the critical

45:50

part, I think is rather than just posting a note that says

45:55

This song was just played on this grand ball, that is

45:59

possible, but you also posed a customer, it's a new type of

46:04

object, you create a new type of object. With that's more that's

46:10

not just a text representation of the thing. It's its own

46:14

custom object here is a here is a podcast episode four here is a

46:20

remote item. These were bring these these concepts of 2.0 into

46:27

the activity pub world as native objects. Yes. Yes. And then the

46:33

other people are receiving them, the other platforms are received

46:37

them in their native format. And then can choose to do lots of

46:42

different things with them, pass them on to an to a front end in

46:46

a way that is like, Okay, so for instance, pod, let's just let's

46:51

just use pod versus example. Pod verse, is, gets a gets a more in

47:00

a more compliant with activity pub on the backside. And it sees

47:07

it's sees events happening, it's getting events posted to it.

47:13

From the booster, ground ball. Activity pub, that, you know,

47:21

spewer whatever that whatever the word is the term Yes. Pure.

47:25

Yes, this viewer. And then it's, it's it's seeing these things

47:30

come in, as events in in a sort of native object format. And now

47:36

it doesn't have to have this live stream switcher. WebSocket.

47:43

Yeah, Adam Curry: there's a perfect example. Perfect example. Yes.

47:47

Dave Jones: Which has been problematic, it's hard. It's a

47:50

hard. This is not that people have struggled with with

47:54

connecting to this web to the live web socket to see the split

47:57

kit changes. So a split kid is outputting activity pub. And

48:03

then the split kit actor, for booster grand ball can just be

48:08

subscribed to or followed, excuse me. And then those those

48:12

split kid events can be multiplexed in a way that they

48:17

can't easily in a or at all in a in a single WebSocket

48:22

connection. Adam Curry: And think of all the richness of the data. Pod roles.

48:30

I mean, all of this can, you can just traverse the tree,

48:34

basically, whatever that event is, whatever that podcast event

48:39

is into activity, pub. There's all kinds of stuff that can be

48:43

done with that by other apps. And you can you can, you know,

48:48

to me just as a non app developer, it's like, oh, look

48:52

at all this data that I can use, I can surface somewhere instead

48:55

of kind of the things that we've had for the past 20 years with

48:58

the exception of the new tags we have, which is great. And people

49:02

love new tags that put new stuff in. But now I want to be able to

49:06

populate other things. And this is where we're, we can bring in

49:10

the user, the listener, the audience, community, things that

49:16

they're doing that they want to share as a part of it back to

49:19

the back to the podcast back to that community. But also,

49:23

everything's a Venn diagram. I know sound like Kamla Harris,

49:26

but everything is event Venn diagram between podcasts shows,

49:30

things overlap, people overlap, you can do, I think amazing

49:35

things through this app interconnector. And yeah, I

49:41

totally think it should be its own type of spewer element,

49:47

whatever it is something that maybe it's even unique to, that

49:50

we put into activity pub, like, Oh, this is, this is what you

49:54

can access from a podcast app. This is the kind of stuff that

49:58

can broadcast into or activity pub to be picked up by whatever

50:05

Dave Jones: it sort of but this is a good follow up to our, to

50:11

the insanity, which was last week's boardroom?

50:14

Adam Curry: Well, yes, perfect example. Yes.

50:18

Dave Jones: Because what what Bouverie does on a consistent

50:22

basis is similar to that, that old thing that we saw where you

50:29

would go to a website and had a live like webcam video of some

50:34

goats? Yes, you could be Yeah, he could send some and send some

50:41

bitcoin to a specific address and it would shoot some goat

50:44

food out of the out of the nozzle and the goats run over

50:49

there and grab some food that which was endlessly

50:52

entertaining, and, and sort of like blew blew your mind on this

50:57

level of like, I can't believe this is real, like I'm sending

51:00

Bitcoin to this address. And then goats are running around

51:05

eating because of it. It's like so weird. Yeah. And so once you

51:09

and that's the blueberry does that stuff all the time with

51:12

these weird little projects that he cooks up? I think this helps

51:15

stretch you out of this helps you stress you out of this

51:21

mindset. That the thing that you're dealing with the protocol

51:25

you're dealing with is only for this one thing. Yes.

51:29

Adam Curry: That's the vision that is exactly the vision

51:34

antenna Dave Jones: pod, which is a great FOSS application, podcast

51:40

app that we don't talk enough about antenna pod had a call for

51:45

contributors this week for 2.0 features like cross app comments

51:51

and stuff like that they want people open source developers to

51:54

help contribute 2.0 features to antenna BOD and this is this is

52:00

a perfect opportunity for for them to add some are for for

52:04

contributors to add stuff like that in

52:07

Adam Curry: yeah and I would just say social interact that I

52:09

think cross app comments is death. The name is Death is just

52:14

down Dave Jones: the years death is death. That's a good point.

52:18

Social Adam Curry: interact. That's the name of the tag is called Social

52:22

interact. Dave Jones: Thank God we didn't call it comment. Ah, worst word

52:27

Adam Curry: that would have been the worst. Yes. So that's my

52:29

pitch it just seems that this is we have a band and orchestra of

52:40

very interesting people you know, people bring all their own

52:45

instruments we've got a guy with a washboard someone's playing

52:49

spoons, we got a banjo we got five and drove on the Joe I've

52:53

drummers jug. Exactly. And I'd love to make the music all play

52:59

together. Because we're via we're now into Phase seven,

53:04

we're doing tags. And you know, a lot of them are not

53:09

implemented or kind of implemented. Creating some form

53:13

of, of architecture around the social interact tag, which is

53:18

nothing more than just here's here's a root level item that,

53:23

that a podcast app through its users can start adding stuff to

53:32

that can be shared out to the world, whether that's another

53:38

app, whether it's to you know, it can be a completely it can be

53:45

completely it could be a Microsoft Word for all I care.

53:48

It can be anything that's the beauty of it. You know, to like

53:53

blueberries, I mean, we have all these cool things like you know,

53:57

the the the IRC bot that fires off that no one else knows how

54:02

to use you know that only works in one in one particular way you

54:08

know, he's got him basically what you said he's got stuff

54:11

light lights going on. I mean, maybe I want to like to go on

54:15

when my favorite podcast to post something or whatever in my own

54:18

house. I Dave Jones: mean, it goes live Yeah,

54:20

Adam Curry: I mean, start my vacuum cleaner. I don't know. I

54:23

mean, it can can be anything I'm just saying that I see I'm from

54:27

the future. I see social interact in activity pub as

54:33

something huge. Really, really big. This something I believe

54:38

even Marco could get in on Dave Jones: Yeah. Yeah, there already do. We need to Enough

54:47

talk to Alex about bridging pod ping over to activity pub before

54:50

too and that that seems like an important thing to me. I don't

54:55

know if you Adam Curry: don't we basically have that already. We have we

54:59

have the live The Live account that just pops up, he's talking

55:02

about something else. I'm just

55:04

Dave Jones: talking about in general. So they put things. So

55:06

the pod pings sort of cross pollinate over to activity posts

55:09

so that you can follow. I mean, I'm just an act, you know,

55:12

Adam Curry: I'm still looking for me as an app user, I want to

55:16

do something on this app that publishes some events somewhere.

55:21

That's what I want. It doesn't have to be a comment. That's,

55:23

that's the lowest level shittiest fruit tastes bad is

55:28

usually bad as whatever. That's the lowest. Yeah,

55:32

Dave Jones: I think that's probably what's also kept people

55:35

as they can people. I mean, developers think that's probably

55:37

what's also kept 2.0 developers from doing more with the social

55:43

interact tag is because it's like, comments. That's kind of

55:46

boring. Adam Curry: Yeah. Or, or a pain in the butt.

55:50

Dave Jones: But like, it's, it's just not. It's just, I think

55:54

everybody's, there's a general Oh, people are just over it. So

55:59

with social media, sure, Adam Curry: sure. I'm completely understand. I just, I don't see

56:05

20 apps, I see an entire connected infrastructure, that

56:12

can be something much bigger. By communicating inter app. The

56:19

simplest things, follow the subscribe, rate, even those who

56:26

just start with those two, just those Dave Jones: gentlemen about what Amanda pod pings being bridged

56:31

is that if you had pod pings coming through as Nick, coming

56:35

through his native activity pub objects, then you could just say

56:41

like, you could subscribe, or excuse me, Fox, keep saying the

56:49

word subscribe. I mean, follow. You could follow a podcast

56:55

actor. And then just, excuse me, you could follow you could

57:02

follow some sort of actor that represents your podcast

57:07

playlist. And then then you can just follow that like, Okay,

57:14

think Okay, think about this hypothetical app. Now let's use

57:18

intent upon Okay, antenna antenna pod, at some future date

57:26

understands, in this hypothetical world understands

57:30

activity pub on the back end. So then you have a or on the low

57:38

level you, you fire up antenna pod and you follow your playlist

57:44

as an actor, then, this playlist actor also knows. So this

57:51

playlist actor is is a representation of all of the

57:56

podcasts you follow. And then as these pod pings come in, the

58:04

playlist actor their sort of activity stream is showing these

58:13

events, these pod pings coming in as activity pub objects. And

58:17

your and your app, just gets them and knows where new

58:21

episodes are. So your app and gets episodes within within 60

58:26

seconds. Just by virtue of you being Have you following the

58:32

playlist actor? Okay, Adam Curry: so what you're Oh, interesting. So what if I'm

58:36

following you what you're saying is this could be a great benefit

58:39

to developers, because now you have a different alert mechanism

58:44

that is probably more responsive, more robust than

58:47

almost anything else that polling. Right.

58:50

Dave Jones: So what happened? Yes. So what happens now is So

58:56

what happens now is things you think about so cast ematic is

58:59

good example. I think I think cast Matic I think antenna

59:02

podcast thematic are similar in that they do not have back end

59:06

infrastructure. I think they are standalone apps. Everything

59:09

happens on device on one device, right? So imagine that so the

59:18

way it works now, let me back up the way it works. Now is that

59:21

something like hasta Matic you have a list of feeds and cast

59:27

ematic poles those feeds periodically to find out is

59:32

there's new episodes Yes. In this playlist actor scenario,

59:38

you have a an activity pub actor, and that could be your

59:42

normal activity pub account.

59:44

Adam Curry: Yes, Dave Jones: that's true. That could just Dave at podcasts and

59:47

desktop social. And this this account also follows all these

59:54

podcasts. But instead of coming through as text items as notes,

1:00:01

they also come through as something like a pod ping

1:00:04

object. So that when, when cast ematic is canoe is, is following

1:00:14

your account, they get these pod pings, do they see the poppings

1:00:20

Ping objects as they come in in the timeline. And it's just

1:00:26

receiving these notifications, essentially, that there's a new

1:00:29

episode available. This Adam Curry: is what I like about this conversation, because this

1:00:33

is how this is the creativity of developers. That you will come

1:00:38

up view and others will come up with ideas that will not be

1:00:42

baked up by me. You know, there will be new ideas that pop out

1:00:47

of this once once we make those connections. And again, so

1:00:52

that's still not really interacting between communities,

1:00:56

but it's a start, there will be a start to get to get activity

1:01:00

pub connected to the apps. But I'm still much more interested

1:01:06

in what can I do just by simply using my app that helps me share

1:01:12

with the community of people who are listening to that podcast,

1:01:16

or a community of people that happened to listen to the same

1:01:20

podcasts. And that doesn't mean comments. Just show me you know,

1:01:27

sir. Oh, you know, five of the people in, in in this community

1:01:33

of this podcast also listened to Dundar dot c now you're helping

1:01:40

Discovery now you're helping grow your show. But you're also

1:01:44

giving me some benefit. Oh, that's interesting. Now can I

1:01:47

can I ping that person? And can I see what when I say Ping i Can

1:01:51

I take a look at what what their subs? This is like Napster.

1:01:54

Napster was the same thing you looked for. He looked for a

1:01:57

song. Oh, I found this woman will reroute around this guy's

1:02:00

drive. What else is he got there? Dave Jones: Remember? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was the best

1:02:06

part. And Adam Curry: that wasn't a publisher. That was just some

1:02:08

rando dude who had Napster running? That was so cool. Yeah.

1:02:13

Then you'd actually you'd work with people and we connect. Hey,

1:02:16

man, I'm downloading now. Can you hold off for a second so I

1:02:19

can get my songs faster? I mean, it was it was it was a real

1:02:22

community based thing. You really was. Without that?

1:02:29

Dave Jones: Without Yeah, yeah. And that Napster would have. If

1:02:32

it had had chat, it would have Adam Curry: it would have killed it probably had destroyed it.

1:02:37

Yeah. Yeah. Dave Jones: That's, that's the Yeah, the non textual non chat

1:02:44

aspect of activity. Pub is what we need to leverage in 2.0. And

1:02:48

make, yeah, make us make a first class citizen of

1:02:52

Adam Curry: Yes. And make the user make the user be the

1:02:56

communicator and the receiver, not just the podcast publisher.

1:03:01

Yeah, give that user something to do. Give that user something

1:03:05

to discover. I mean, that pod ping is pod. Pod roll is kind of

1:03:11

the beginning of that, but it's still coming from. Okay. You

1:03:16

like this? This show? Here's what here's what else we

1:03:18

recommend. Button. I'm telling the most exciting thing is when

1:03:22

I get it like you post I mean, okay, bad example may be but you

1:03:27

post something from Chesterton on the social which is you know,

1:03:33

just because you posted it doesn't mean that I couldn't be

1:03:37

following you for your your audio book feed like, Oh, he's

1:03:40

he's listening to an audio book of Chesterton. I want to listen

1:03:44

to that too. Now. Yeah, that's how it works. Working out in pod

1:03:49

verse you made a clip you know, can people follow my clips?

1:03:56

Dave Jones: Yeah, a clip should be an actor. Yes. Yes.

1:03:59

Adam Curry: And follow up follow the clips I made that what who

1:04:03

else listen to this clip. Where did it go? That

1:04:07

Dave Jones: that's probably the best sort of inroad into this in

1:04:12

as far as mental framework goes is what what thing is what would

1:04:18

happen if everything consider what the world would look like?

1:04:23

If the thing you're talking about was itself an actor? What

1:04:29

if the episode was an actor would if the US listener was an

1:04:31

actor with a podcaster? Everything's the world is the

1:04:35

clip the transcript Yeah,

1:04:38

Adam Curry: transcript and great idea could be an actor totally.

1:04:42

Dave Jones: The world the world's an instance and we're merely actors, you know, that that's if everything it just

1:04:48

think of the weirdest thing about the, the smallest like

1:04:53

node in your in your, in your idea in which what if that was

1:04:58

the actor That's where things get kind of weird and beautiful.

1:05:04

that's out there. This I think is cool, man.

1:05:09

Adam Curry: I think it's great. I mean, should can't even be if

1:05:12

you think about it. I can't even each chapter be an actor.

1:05:16

Potentially. Yeah, that's what you can interact with this with

1:05:20

the chapter by itself. Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's got chapter art. So there's

1:05:26

your avatar. Yeah, it's good. It's

1:05:29

Adam Curry: alive. Yes. Dave Jones: Like there's he could do. That's where things

1:05:35

get interesting is when you start to think about non humans

1:05:38

as actors. Adam Curry: So we just decide we banned comments for now.

1:05:43

Dave Jones: Yeah, comments off the table. Comments are banned.

1:05:47

Adam Curry: Good. I like it. I'm excited now officially,

1:05:50

officially, no comments. Dave Jones: No comment.

1:05:53

Adam Curry: And you know, I'm feeling people like Andrew

1:05:56

grommet. You know, these are people are going to start

1:05:59

messing around with this. Because they're, they're curious

1:06:03

and creative. Dave Jones: We need we need to do some namespace talk. Well,

1:06:12

Adam Curry: just so happens, I have. Where's my, oh, here we

1:06:16

go. And now it's time for some hot namespace talk. Jennifer had

1:06:24

some kind of meltdown. So she wasn't able to get our new

1:06:27

jingles. But actually, yes, she posted some picture and I was

1:06:33

like, what is that? That doesn't look good. I was like, Are you

1:06:36

being electrocuted right now? Um, I guess she has some kind of

1:06:39

hum in the machine. So if you need help, damn, Jennifer, let

1:06:43

us know. I'll jump in. Dave Jones: So the publisher feeds is we have we have two as

1:06:53

a reminder, as a reminder, phase seven ends on is closes on June

1:07:01

the first so we're, we're getting there. You know, we got

1:07:06

about a month and a half to go before we're going to shut down

1:07:11

phase seven and start digging through the digging through the

1:07:16

flotsam and figuring out what goes and you know what, in what

1:07:19

stays pumped. So there's two clear things that people need in

1:07:25

as comm that is part that is bubbled up very quickly. The

1:07:28

publisher feeds, and some sort of category tagging a genre,

1:07:35

tags genre category, call it what you will. And as a

1:07:40

publisher feeds. Or a probably it was probably we probably need

1:07:46

to talk about tagging con category genre next week.

1:07:51

Because Sam, Seth is going to be on the show we're going to do is

1:07:55

we'll be diving into some of the stuff but publisher feeds.

1:08:00

There's one real I think we got it pretty much baked, except

1:08:05

that there's kind of one thing that is a decision we have to

1:08:12

make. And that's whether or not we wrap the remote item in a

1:08:17

publisher parent tag. Do you if am I am I free to dive into

1:08:24

this? Or do you need a primer on where exactly we're at with this

1:08:28

stuff? Adam Curry: If if you think I need one then we probably all

1:08:33

need one. Dave Jones: I don't know. You may be you may be fully uh, you

1:08:37

may be fully engaged and up to date on this. I don't know. But

1:08:41

if so that the idea just run it's worth running up. Yeah, I

1:08:46

think so. Yeah. Okay. So the idea here is that you have you

1:08:52

want to have this idea of a publisher where don't get too

1:08:56

hung up on the name publisher is just an it's just a name names

1:08:59

are not that big of a deal. So publisher fee I'm sorry, Daniel.

1:09:04

Publisher feeds are this concept of having the the entity that

1:09:13

creates a feed or a set of feeds has their own feed. So let's

1:09:20

just use you we have Adam curry as the publisher and Adam curry

1:09:26

publishes quote unquote for feeds no agenda, podcasts into

1:09:33

boy no. Korean the keeper. Mo facts five feeds Yeah, boost

1:09:39

scramble. Yep. Adam Curry: I've all the crap I need to do more podcasts. You

1:09:44

Dave Jones: need more pa you don't have so you have you

1:09:48

publish five you Adam curry as the publisher published five

1:09:52

podcast feeds. You need your own feed. That read For instance,

1:10:00

those five feeds. And that's in that feed that feed that

1:10:05

references, all your feeds is going to be called the publisher

1:10:07

feed. And that is a way that people can subscribe or follow

1:10:15

or somehow connect with all of your feeds in a centralized

1:10:19

fashion, so that they know canonically that these are all

1:10:27

the things that you published, because you're the one saying

1:10:30

that that's true. If I know that you're this is very similar to

1:10:35

what we used to have with a freedom controller with s OPML.

1:10:38

Yeah, Adam Curry: I was just gonna say sounds OPML ish. Yeah, so in

1:10:42

Dave Jones: the freedom patrol, we had an OPML in our XML

1:10:45

namespace for the OPML. document. And we had this idea

1:10:52

of a disposition attribute. So on each outline node, in the

1:10:57

XML, there was a thing called disposition equals. And the two

1:11:02

possible values were pub or sub, right. And so if I have a single

1:11:09

OPML document that represents me, this is Dave's OPML. Dog,

1:11:15

and we call it your OPML. social graph. Then, you could look at

1:11:21

that OPML document and say, okay, everything with

1:11:25

disposition Pub is a feed that I publish, everything with a

1:11:30

disposition sub is a feed that I subscribe to,

1:11:33

Adam Curry: right, I think we call it S OPML. Yeah, social

1:11:36

OPML. Dave Jones: Right. So that was the SOP ml namespace, this is

1:11:41

very similar. So you would have, except you're leaving out the

1:11:45

sub part, you're just saying, Okay, I have a RSS feed. And in

1:11:50

that feed, I'm going to list all of the RSS feeds that I publish.

1:11:57

And so then in the to, to sort of complete the loop there. On

1:12:04

those feeds that are being referenced to those five Adam

1:12:07

curry feeds. You also put in a link back to the publisher feed.

1:12:13

That way, if I'm subscribed to Yeah, yeah, if I'm subscribed to

1:12:17

curry in the keeper, then my app could also suggest if in a

1:12:24

special section or some handling in the UI, could also say, Hey,

1:12:30

here's the other podcasts that this publisher also creates in

1:12:37

Boca and it would know that because they could see the

1:12:39

reference to the publisher feed, walk back up the chain, to the

1:12:43

publisher feed, get those other feeds and go parse them and

1:12:47

display them to the listener. And so that's that's the idea.

1:12:53

You have this sort of two way verification that happens. And

1:12:56

we've all this is all this is, is pretty much fleshed out the

1:13:00

publisher feed. Just has remote item links, linking to the

1:13:08

different feeds that the publisher publishes. Yes, and

1:13:13

thank you who is the most read? So let's the most relevant

1:13:17

aspect here is at the moment is for music. So Ainsley Costello

1:13:24

has a publisher feed that has all of her feeds that she

1:13:30

publishes, whether they're singles or albums or whatever.

1:13:33

Those are all referenced within that publisher feeds so you can

1:13:37

follow Ainsley. Or you can. You can either follow the publisher

1:13:43

feed to see all her stuff, or you can follow one of her

1:13:48

albums, and then also see all of the other stuff that she

1:13:50

publishes to have the opposite opportunity to follow those. Can

1:13:53

Adam Curry: I interject an ad? Yes. RSS blue.com/music. There's

1:13:59

now a new path, whether you're doing a show or an artist or

1:14:02

whatever you want with music, RSS blue.com/music.

1:14:06

Dave Jones: That was a freebie. That's right. So that's the way

1:14:11

that that's the way that it currently. The idea is, so then

1:14:18

the issue here is on the feed side itself, not the publisher

1:14:24

feed but on the on the podcast feed, right, because we need

1:14:27

that reference back. You need the reference back in the way we

1:14:31

had, where we had originally, we bounced round a couple of

1:14:35

things. And where I had landed was I initially was like, I

1:14:40

don't think we need to have a publisher tag, we can just have

1:14:44

a remote item with a medium equals publisher. And then that

1:14:49

if that's found in the channel, then that's your reference. And

1:14:52

I still think that's okay. That's an that's an OK way to do

1:14:56

it. But I've got a couple of I've started to change my tune a

1:14:59

little bit. On this, and I'm now thinking that that remote item,

1:15:03

Thomas Rin, popped into GitHub and the podcast index dot social

1:15:08

and said that he really thinks that that remote item

1:15:13

referencing the publisher feed should be wrapped in a publisher

1:15:19

tag, something like podcast, podcast colon publisher. And

1:15:25

originally, I was like, yeah. Adam Curry: I've heard that noise before, it's usually not a

1:15:31

good sign. Dave Jones: And so but then I started thinking about it more

1:15:38

than like, you know, I think he, I think he might be, right. This

1:15:44

is not really a right or wrong issue. This, I just, I just

1:15:46

think I like the way that that feels better. And here's the

1:15:50

reasons. I don't like the way atom at O M, Atom feeds. I don't

1:15:59

like I've never liked the way that they use link tags. So Atom

1:16:05

feeds have a bunch of link tags with different rel equals into

1:16:13

two different differentiate what their, what their

1:16:16

Adam Curry: meanings are. That's where rel equals mi comes from.

1:16:20

Dave Jones: Well, no, that's different. That's, that's a link mess of metadata ahead. Yeah. Disregard, disregarded. So I

1:16:28

don't like the way that that is because what it makes you have

1:16:32

to do is iterate the whole link list. In this is, this is at a

1:16:36

code level now that I'm talking about, when you when you parse

1:16:40

an Atom feed, you have one or two, you have two choices, you

1:16:44

can either parse the entire link list, each time you're looking

1:16:50

for a specific type type of link, let's say you're looking

1:16:54

for web sub links, you're gonna have to run the entire link list

1:16:58

and find that specific rel equal link that you're looking for.

1:17:05

Otherwise, you end up or you end up with a loop in your code with

1:17:10

a dependent sort of dependent parsing functions coming out of

1:17:13

that code, which has sort of a lot of fingers. It just doesn't

1:17:19

fit in either one of them, when you just have a list like that.

1:17:25

I don't know, it just doesn't feel good to me. Because here's

1:17:29

the issues because RSS doesn't have a notion of a head and a

1:17:34

body section, like HTML does. So in in HTML, if you want to put

1:17:40

some sort of metadata in there, you can just stick it in the

1:17:42

head. In in, then you have a body for the content. If RSS had

1:17:49

the notion of a head and a body where the head held a bunch of

1:17:53

content, a sort of this type of thing, and then the body had all

1:17:57

the items or the episodes, there would be a little bit more

1:18:02

logical separation between these things. But there's, we don't

1:18:05

have that everything's just in a flat list called the channel. So

1:18:10

it says everything's in the channel, wrapping things in a

1:18:14

sort of a parent tag. It really helps with the parsing of it. It

1:18:21

gives a little a little bit more logical, like structure to the

1:18:24

to the data. So um, and we kind of do that already.

1:18:29

Adam Curry: Can I Can I ask a crazy question?

1:18:33

Dave Jones: The crazier the better? Adam Curry: Why aren't we just using OPML for this?

1:18:40

Dave Jones: Yeah, that that came up, except that OPML everything

1:18:46

in podcasting is geared towards RSS. On the subscription front.

1:18:53

And it's just, it would be such it would be a big it'd be a

1:18:57

heavy lift to make people parse OPML. Okay, because let's be

1:19:01

honest, oh, P mails a weird based. Adam Curry: I always loved it.

1:19:06

Dave Jones: Now, I love it, too, but it's a weird one. I mean,

1:19:08

it's a weird, dude. Well, Adam Curry: for sure people don't know the true power of it.

1:19:11

They only no list of RSS feeds.

1:19:15

Dave Jones: Yeah. Like, everything's an outline tag.

1:19:18

Yeah, that's that. I think it just blows people's minds. Okay,

1:19:22

so all right, but yeah, so it's a way that I think that we kind

1:19:26

of already do this with with media. See, like, value

1:19:30

recipient? Yeah, that can have a remote item in it. You know, in

1:19:34

a value time split and these kinds of these. It's rare that

1:19:38

the remote item lives on its own unless it's in a playlist

1:19:42

medium. And so I think I think it makes sense. If I think

1:19:50

either will be clearer, I think either way will work. But I

1:19:54

kinda like the wrapping and apparent publisher tag better.

1:19:59

So I think I think we kind of need to figure that part out

1:20:02

real quick. And then we can pull the trigger on on getting this

1:20:07

thing formalized. Okay. finalized Excuse me. So I'm

1:20:12

gonna I'm gonna, I'm gonna push that agenda. He's got on his

1:20:16

podcast and Adam Curry: agenda. He's got an agenda.

1:20:20

Dave Jones: I got an agenda. It's in, it's in, it's got to do

1:20:24

with publishers. And we're going to end I'm going to push that on

1:20:27

podcast, index dot social and GitHub, and hopefully we can get

1:20:30

that one over the finish line. Adam Curry: So just while we're on this briefly, where do we fit

1:20:36

in the concept of tags for music? Because I promised that

1:20:42

bring this up. Dave Jones: Yes, I've got that on my notes as well. I'll house

1:20:46

hoping to talk about that next week with Sam. Ah, yes, thanks.

1:20:49

He's Adam Curry: got a lot to say about that weird idea. Dave Jones: I don't think we're far away from this. I don't

1:20:55

think that there's much that we have to do, because we've

1:20:57

already hashed out so much of it in the past. But I think it'd be

1:21:02

good to have a verbal conversation about it with him

1:21:05

next week. And I think, here's, I think we can get all of this

1:21:09

done by June 1. Adam Curry: Okay,

1:21:12

Dave Jones: so another month and I think we're, I think we're

1:21:14

because people are already building it. Wave lakes already

1:21:18

putting they're building both of these, they're gonna have these

1:21:20

things. shippable this month? Clean this is this is happening.

1:21:25

Publisher Adam Curry: publisher feeds? Dave Jones: Yeah. And categories,

1:21:28

Adam Curry: or tags are excellent. Excellent. I gotta

1:21:30

tell you, I was listening to phantom power music. Our I think

1:21:34

it is there's like a million phantom power podcast, and named

1:21:38

for a podcast and he had on. I think the guys from the trusted,

1:21:43

which are a bunch of British guys didn't even realize that.

1:21:46

And the you just listening to them? Used to them? They're

1:21:49

like, Oh, yeah, this Nasr thing, they don't even know what

1:21:52

they're talking about. But then, but then they Yeah, you know,

1:21:55

people are sharing on the podcast, and I can, can feel the

1:21:59

artists are starting to catch on the end. And when artists catch

1:22:03

on to something, and they get 100,000 SATs, you know, they're

1:22:07

like, Ah, how do we get involved? And they, please,

1:22:13

yeah, but it's not just the money. It's like, we can't

1:22:15

believe someone's doing something. It's like someone's

1:22:18

doing something. The song Yeah, someone's playing our song over

1:22:21

here. And we're finding out about it over there. And

1:22:24

there's, there's value and it's a lot more value than they get

1:22:27

them they get nothing zero value of any platform, because they

1:22:30

never hit the $50 threshold or whatever. And it's exciting. I

1:22:35

mean, I always have to remind myself these things, these

1:22:38

things take time. takes time. Yeah, it really does. But it's

1:22:43

happening. It really is. And you can see more and more just the

1:22:48

features in the apps, the way they're being displayed. The

1:22:51

things that people are coming up with, I mean, it's rolling, it's

1:22:55

rolling, and it's small, but it's it's going to it's just

1:23:00

going through RSS is and the apps they're going to be the

1:23:04

distribution mechanism in for the foreseeable future it really

1:23:09

are freely really are is everyone's starting to see it

1:23:13

say well how can get on all these platforms be ignored

1:23:16

they're talking about but I get all these platforms just by

1:23:20

uploading it this way. You know

1:23:23

Dave Jones: are you gonna play a song today? Adam Curry: I have a song if you if you want to you want you want

1:23:27

to hear song? Yeah. Is it the trusted No, it's not the trust

1:23:31

but you might want to hold on to your to your britches for this

1:23:34

one right I picked this one just for you Dave. It says the retro

1:23:45

grade as heard on booster Grand Ball in many other places it's I

1:23:49

need a little Unknown: again

1:24:15

CZ Houston is over

1:24:35

guys Dave Jones: Are you

1:25:31

Unknown: busy used to? Adam Curry: cruising around Hello girls I got my stereo

1:27:38

crank just for you the retrograde I need a little Yeah,

1:27:45

it's good, isn't it? Dave Jones: Yeah, I like that. That prompted you for the music

1:27:50

because I was had to pee right. Adam Curry: That's what we do in radio.

1:27:56

Dave Jones: I'm a real radio guy, shall we?

1:27:58

Adam Curry: Thanks some people here Dave Jones. We should think

1:28:02

Dave Jones: some people in and out Oberto in the in the boys

1:28:05

and girls calm Oh $1,000

1:28:11

Unknown: stock Carla 20 is blades on him.

1:28:15

Adam Curry: Advertising can beat that. Dave Jones: Adam and Dave, here's some value back at you

1:28:21

and the podcast in Tupelo, all stars. Thank you everyone for

1:28:24

your time of talent. Treasure. It's very time talent treasure.

1:28:28

Let's get together in Fredericksburg. One of these days smoked beef shake. Oh,

1:28:34

Adam Curry: I get it. I like that idea. Yeah. We need a

1:28:39

friend meet up for sure. For sure. Thank you. Thank you guys.

1:28:42

Thank you. The hosters are always the big supporters. Let

1:28:47

me go through a couple of the the boosts booster grams that

1:28:51

came in during the show. I heard a lot of pews. 7777 little

1:28:56

striper boost from circus media boost on episode 175 Go music

1:29:00

podcasting. And there's big 10,000 SATs from music mama. She

1:29:06

says we can feel it. That's Ames this mom. We can feel it. I can

1:29:11

feel Sam Sethi 10,000 sets. We have publisher feeds and artists

1:29:15

fees. You can follow a publisher feed if they add a new track or

1:29:18

a new podcast or their slate we'll send you a notification.

1:29:22

So I'm talking 2222 from blueberry Dave, you're saying

1:29:27

one could make a post and activity pub and tase our GIMP

1:29:30

on the podcast? Saying yes, I'm liking it

1:29:37

Dave Jones: early. That's what I meant subconsciously. Adam Curry: Another 10k from Sam Sethi from true fans. I'm

1:29:42

working hard to link activity stream to activity pub. You and

1:29:45

Dave have invented the new ad model but just don't know it

1:29:48

yet. VTS SATs and remote item we will have activity stream to

1:29:53

activity pub working to demo next week. Good because I don't

1:29:56

understand anything that we just said. Fun. I'm excited I I'm

1:30:00

excited. Hey Dave, whatever it is we invented it just so you

1:30:03

know we did we invent it before you know what the wiki pedia

1:30:07

will say we were promoters of it. Yep. Stakeholders. If you

1:30:11

look at the Wikipedia, Adam Curry was a podcast enthusiast.

1:30:17

Dave Jones: An enthusiast. Yeah, just my favorite. My favorite

1:30:20

tweet ever from you. It hands it hands down is Spotify. Put out a

1:30:25

tweet that said Tell us about your RSS. Tell us about No. Tell

1:30:32

us about your podcasting, relationship, your relationship

1:30:36

to podcasting. It was just one of those engagement getters.

1:30:39

Tell us about your relationship to podcasting and you replied

1:30:42

and said invented it. Adam Curry: Oh, there you go. Not Not according to the

1:30:46

Wikipedia though. Bro. Ducks from Dave Jackson coming in from

1:30:50

Casta Matic gonna try this again from Castle Matic speaking of

1:30:53

marketing, advertising and coffee. I still say censeo after

1:30:56

I burp. Thanks, Adam. How do I get deeper? How do I get the pro

1:31:00

deprogrammed? You can't that's going on on 18 years that people

1:31:05

that was that was my advertising test and it still works never

1:31:09

got paid. 2220 from Dave Jackson again speaking of coffee

1:31:14

advertising and branding every time he did it twice so it came

1:31:17

through on true fans as well. Three times true twice from true

1:31:22

fans there you go. Once on Sunday, yes right Jean ever 3333

1:31:27

Live boosts from Highway 684 in New York. That's right. Wave to

1:31:31

Armonk on your way past. Dave Jackson did it again with true

1:31:36

fans is true fans is great for our wallet. Whatever true fans

1:31:40

is doing more of it. We invented it 7777 Again from circus media

1:31:46

more options more choices, more freedom go podcasting. The tone

1:31:50

record catching the live feed today always refreshing with a

1:31:52

row of ducks Guy Martin 7777 boosting and from true fans.

1:31:57

Yes, please. I'd love to be in the dev alpha and beta of an

1:32:01

audio book app. There you go. Dave Jones: And you don't have to make it now.

1:32:06

Adam Curry: Sam Ceci with 1000 SATs cough we support medium

1:32:10

equal Audrey audio books will work with her head to understand

1:32:14

the problem the issue was finding feeds Okay, that should

1:32:18

be that should be solvable. Yep. Eric pp roadex went to 22 he was

1:32:26

interesting he boosted it boost wow that's weird. He boosted a

1:32:31

song. I don't know how that even worked. I don't know what do you

1:32:35

what add something showed up from curio Cassatt? I'm not sure

1:32:38

what's going on. Eric PP and other 3333 We've got a hit the

1:32:46

delimiter. So over to you Bob. Dave Jones: Pod verse, Mitch and Kreon over in collibra pod verse

1:32:56

$50. Whoa, Adam Curry: thank you very much.

1:32:59

Unknown: For that shots call off 20 blades on am Paula thank

1:33:04

Adam Curry: you much. Dave Jones: Eric. BP says he doesn't know what he did either.

1:33:09

Beats Music podcasts and $33.33 three Thank you. says how the

1:33:16

boardroom boardroom Dave, it's that time of the year for

1:33:19

tornado chasing yes it is. It absolutely is gracious. Here's a

1:33:23

little donation to help top off your climate change and help

1:33:26

keep the lights on go podcast go

1:33:28

Adam Curry: podcasting as you Dave Jones: see we have Jesse Anderson $33 No note thank you

1:33:38

Jessie. Alright, and that's our paper towels. We got some boosts

1:33:43

Adam Curry: boost boost. Boost boost boost boost boost motion

1:33:49

here we go. By the way I just say I'm loving it Barry who's

1:33:54

doing the all about podcasting podcast.

1:33:58

Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah. Adam Curry: He's cool podcast.

1:34:01

Dave Jones: He is alive. Live Event guy. Yeah. He loves doing

1:34:06

those things. Adam Curry: Yeah, he's got. He's interviewing everybody. It's

1:34:10

great. I love that. Love that what you're doing

1:34:13

Dave Jones: 6969 from Pei citizen, through pod verse. He

1:34:18

says pugnacious boost that's when blueberry takes 10%

1:34:22

Adam Curry: Yeah, blueberry in the split for today. So enjoy

1:34:26

blueberry. Okay, Dave Jones: yeah, you could double up there you go. See we

1:34:30

got Alan C Paul. Da boost this is great interview with

1:34:33

blueberry and the song sold me on checking out the concert God

1:34:37

Adam Curry: There you go. 12 rods it was a big success.

1:34:41

Dave Jones: Advertising through V for V. Loc we got rusty

1:34:44

Calavera posting the see through cast ematic he says Midwest is

1:34:48

best. Adam Curry: True I can True that.

1:34:53

Dave Jones: Say we get another one of those and oh god the

1:34:56

delimiter comic strip blogger 22,000 SATs fan Anthony says,

1:35:02

howdy fellow simulation dwellers, Adam and Dave, as an

1:35:06

agnostic, I think that the likelihood of us living in a

1:35:08

simulation is greater than the truthfulness of the religious

1:35:11

beliefs centered around Jesus. However, if you hold the belief

1:35:15

that Christ is king, then I encourage you to subscribe to

1:35:19

Adam and Tina Curry's podcast, where they talk about Jesus

1:35:22

Bigley. You can you can find it at www dot Currey and the

1:35:30

keeper.com they accept a boost for grants from podcasting 2.0

1:35:34

apps, which Adam reads on the show. Yo cssb

1:35:37

Adam Curry: Thank you so much CSP he I love it. It's the only

1:35:41

person I know who boosts and of course it's advertising just

1:35:45

just just pointing it out. advertising

1:35:48

Dave Jones: for others he's never selfish. He Adam Curry: never never never asked for himself once in a

1:35:52

while. It's CSB dot lol but then that's true and far between

1:35:56

Thank you very much comics for Blogger. You got any monthlies

1:35:59

Dave? Dave Jones: Yeah got some monthlies. Basil Philip $25

1:36:07

Thank you basil got Lauren ball $24.20 Mitch Downey $10 Thank

1:36:13

you Mitch. Christopher horrible Eric $10 Terry killer $5 and

1:36:18

Chris Cowan $5

1:36:20

Adam Curry: Well, thank you all so much for your contributions

1:36:23

to podcasting. 2.0 it keeps everything running all the

1:36:27

servers all the polars all the machines the social we don't

1:36:33

that thing is that thing is chugging along sometimes.

1:36:37

Dave Jones: How expensive is it now? Adam Curry: I think we're up to 9085 or 90 bucks a month

1:36:44

Dave Jones: ish Adam Curry: yeah but it's really data I mean it's storage it's we

1:36:50

had to build the database it's I love maths though dot host

1:36:54

things a great outfit. I've purchased many Mastodon services

1:36:58

from Mastodon hosts it works very well but I've never seen

1:37:02

downtime. Never Dave Jones: one one other thing as far as the arsa.com donation

1:37:11

reminded me that we are working behind the scenes with your arm

1:37:16

where I'm having talks periodically with Roberto from

1:37:20

our sister calm and Tom over Buzzsprout in which trying to

1:37:27

kind of come up with a with an idea for how to fight the spam

1:37:30

feeds. Adam Curry: Yes, yes. Good idea. Very good. Yeah.

1:37:34

Dave Jones: Everybody's got good ideas. So I think we're gonna think we're gonna have a repost soon where we can post some reg

1:37:39

x's for blogging and cool things. So

1:37:43

Adam Curry: go to the podcast index.org down at the bottom.

1:37:45

You got to read donate buttons, one for your on chain Bitcoin.

1:37:49

Okay. And the other for your Fiat Fiat fun coupons through

1:37:54

PayPal, we always appreciate that. And of course, the way to

1:37:57

really do it is getting modern podcast app modern podcast

1:38:00

apps.com To find out more about podcasting, two dot o podcasting

1:38:04

two.org. And the value for value which is a it's a content

1:38:08

format. It's a model. It's a lifestyle. Value number four

1:38:12

value dot info. And one last board matter. Since we have been

1:38:19

asked which I I'm flattered. I'm flattered that we were asked the

1:38:24

podcasting 2.0 logo. All in favor say aye. Aye. Okay. And

1:38:30

that concludes all of the business for the boardroom.

1:38:32

Anything else from your side? Dave Jones: No. Okay.

1:38:38

Adam Curry: Good. You're gonna you're going back to work because you're very close to the deadline. Here are a couple more

1:38:42

days and tomorrow is tax day for me tomorrow. I'm doing all the

1:38:45

taxes. Dave Jones: Oh, you late, you late filer. Oh,

1:38:49

Adam Curry: but but I have it all set up. I just have to, you

1:38:52

know, I'm just waiting for the button. Yeah, just I just I

1:38:55

wanted to delay the pain until the very, very last minute for

1:38:59

Dave Jones: your your skirt and your skirt of the limit. The

1:39:03

Monday deadline day is great. Because everybody like you can

1:39:06

just like oh, I'll just do it Monday. No,

1:39:09

Adam Curry: no, no, no, no, I'm doing it Saturday. I'm doing

1:39:11

this. I'm doing that. Thank you very much boardroom thanks,

1:39:15

everybody for showing up. Really appreciate your booths.

1:39:17

Appreciate your support and your feedback. A lot was discussed

1:39:20

today. Have yourselves a great weekend. Dave. Brother, I love

1:39:24

you. I'll see you what we'll be talking and we'll talk again on

1:39:27

the next board meeting. Dave Jones: Alright man see you bro.

1:39:32

Adam Curry: Join us here next Friday for another board meeting

1:39:34

the official one of podcasting 2.0 We'll see you then. Bye bye

1:39:54

Unknown: did you do you hope you have been listening to

1:39:56

podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast and Doug Ford for more information

1:40:02

go podcast Adam Curry: Thomas are banned