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school to get signed up or use the

1:00

link in the show notes for this episode. What's

1:06

up pod pals that you buddy, Adam, and

1:08

you are checking out podcasting. Business school, it's

1:10

a show where I teach podcasters how to love their show

1:12

like a hobby and to build a like a business.

1:15

I've got my friend, Fawn, coming

1:17

in from the hour friendly world with Fawn and

1:19

Matt Podcast for a podcast audit

1:21

session. Fawn, how's it going? My

1:23

friend.

1:24

It is a pleasure to be here, Adam. Thank

1:26

you for having me on.

1:28

Well, we

1:28

can't be here right now. I'm sorry. That's

1:31

unpacking boxes. No. We

1:34

were just kind of reminiscing before we hit

1:36

the live button about how she just

1:38

got to a new state. I moved to

1:40

a new state this summer. We're kind of comparing

1:43

notes about how crazy things are, but I'm

1:45

definitely glad to get you here and

1:47

get you settled in. And hopefully,

1:49

you're getting your new low podcasting space set up

1:51

and all that. That was that was a fun part about my

1:53

journeys. Like, I get to set up a new podcasting room.

1:56

So do you have, like, a little bunker set up or

1:58

anything like that? Actually same here.

2:00

I was so excited. I have this beautiful

2:02

desk that is perfect

2:04

for podcasting. We have this

2:06

room with this coffee table that we podcast

2:09

together. And then in

2:11

the

2:11

basement, I have a voice over studio

2:13

that I'm putting together. So I'm super

2:15

excited. That's

2:16

a great use of basement right there. You

2:18

know? Like -- Yeah. -- that's that's

2:20

perfect. Okay. So let's

2:22

chat about your show. I wanna

2:24

know if we're gonna sit down and talk six

2:27

months from now and you're all settled into your new

2:29

home and all that good stuff. But things have gone

2:31

really well with your show. Like, if the next six months,

2:33

your show really takes off in the way that

2:35

you envision it as far

2:37

as, like, progress goes, what would that look

2:39

like for you? It would be

2:41

great to find

2:44

a way to have more

2:46

people listening I'm actually amazed

2:48

by the amount of listeners we do have.

2:50

It would be great if I could

2:54

triple that. In six months.

2:56

Okay. Because I feel like this

3:00

is a total labor of love that we're

3:02

doing. We feel that reintroducing

3:06

the art of friendship into our

3:08

society can help everything

3:10

on every level from the economy

3:13

to a person's physical health,

3:16

everything, everything. So

3:19

I would like for it to be more

3:21

of a movement I would like more

3:23

more

3:25

hype. My hype is a terrible word for

3:27

it. I just it's just I can't think of an an

3:29

award for it. Yeah. You want some momentum,

3:31

some positive mojo, a little traction. Yeah.

3:33

Well, that's

3:34

great. Yeah. No. No. I have

3:37

I have listeners. I know they're out there,

3:39

but I wish that

3:41

people would actually engage with me

3:43

more than they have

3:44

been? Like, I want more people to

3:46

talk to us. You know. Yeah.

3:48

Yeah. Okay. So this is my

3:50

wheelhouse. That's that's something that

3:54

I've just fought for and

3:57

like, I back in twenty fifteen,

3:59

when I first got started, I'm in

4:01

that same position of, like, man, I'm I

4:03

know I'm putting out good content. Because, like,

4:05

not enough people are listening and no one is

4:07

talking to me like it's just complete cricket

4:09

zone and it's it's pretty frustrating can be

4:11

discouraging. So How many episodes do

4:14

you have live as of today? We

4:17

have I think it's one

4:19

hundred seventeen it could

4:21

be one twenty seven. It's hard to say because

4:23

I numbered them weird because

4:25

I did roundtables. Like,

4:27

I did about fifteen roundtables,

4:30

and I didn't include those as, like,

4:32

my regular episodes, but

4:34

we're going on two

4:36

and a half years, and we never

4:38

miss an episode. We we wanna

4:40

make sure that we are there for

4:42

people no matter what, every

4:45

Sunday we come out with a new

4:46

episode. Love it. No matter what, sick

4:48

or whatever.

4:49

Yeah. We're there.

4:51

Good. Well, if you

4:53

show up your audience, they'll show up for you. So

4:55

that's one of the tried and true

4:57

strategies of creating superfans. Now

5:00

when we talk about download

5:02

growth, when we talk about audience engagement specifically,

5:04

we really want to look at strategies

5:07

on how to initiate engagement.

5:09

And by that,

5:11

I mean, how are we providing

5:14

opportunities for engagement? And we can't

5:16

just sit back and go hey,

5:18

leave me a writing review or

5:20

hey, email me if you have a question because

5:23

the main thing the nobody

5:25

thinks about this for some reason, when

5:28

we do that on a podcast, what

5:30

are our listeners usually doing when they're

5:32

listening to our show? They're multitasking. They're

5:34

driving their kid to school. They're working

5:36

out. They're cooking dinner.

5:38

They're doing other things. So if we do a call to

5:40

action like that, very few

5:42

will just pump their brakes and go, I got to

5:44

email fawn right now because let's

5:46

pull off on the side of the road. It's like an

5:48

email following my question. So they're gonna

5:50

forget. So that's why it's important.

5:53

Those calls to action, they are important. That's why I'm

5:55

a big fan of one call to

5:57

action repeatedly for a

5:59

month. Like, what's the one major

6:02

thing you just wanna hit them from every

6:04

angle. It's gonna be in your social media. It's gonna be on your show. It's

6:06

gonna be in your newsletter. It's gonna be

6:09

in different areas. Of your ecosystem

6:11

so that when they are sitting down their

6:13

computer, like, oh, yes. I do have a

6:15

question that that I wanna email fawn

6:17

or whatever. Now

6:20

if we can also look at at ways

6:22

to just

6:24

have a little bit more of a

6:26

why the heck should I take action

6:29

on this call to action. Because a lot of

6:31

people are like, oh, let's email my question,

6:33

whatever. But if you're like, click this

6:35

button to submit your audio

6:37

question and I'll play it on the show,

6:40

that's a little different. That's a little unique.

6:42

They can be a part of the show and they they

6:44

have their question answered live

6:46

on the show and that's in a

6:48

special form of engagement. So

6:50

I would look at opportunities like that. I use

6:52

an app called Speak Pipe for

6:54

my show where I

6:57

don't even put that call to action

6:59

really out there on my show. What I do

7:01

is, like, if somebody like,

7:04

okay. Great example. You're coming. I'm

7:06

gonna show you a podcast audit. Right? We're having

7:08

this experience together. After we're

7:10

done, I'll send you a follow-up email and, like,

7:12

Alright. Fine. Now we're pod pals. It's

7:14

official. You know, I got

7:16

an official relationship going here.

7:18

I would love it. If you would submit,

7:21

some audio from my show. I'll either ask

7:23

you to I'll let you pick up. Like, hey, do you

7:25

wanna do an introduction for an episode

7:27

where you get to introduce my show and you get to talk

7:29

about your show, in the introduction, or

7:31

you could do a favorite episode. Say, hey,

7:33

my This is Phon from the our

7:35

friendly world with Phonomat Podcast. Favorite

7:38

episode of podcasting business school is episode blah

7:40

blah blah because of whatever. So it's a way

7:42

for you to promote your show on my show, and

7:44

it's a nice little audio clip. So

7:47

those things create social

7:49

proof. It pulls people that are connected

7:51

to you and listeners or potential listeners

7:53

or potential clients or whatever. Like, it

7:55

gets you in each other's are old and we're collaborating

7:58

and we're creating stuff together. So

8:00

I look for those opportunities and

8:03

that's why I talk about initiating engagement.

8:06

I'm not sitting back and going, hey. You emailed me

8:08

with questions. I'm like, alright. Like,

8:10

I put this call to action out. You saw it

8:12

somewhere. Sign up for a podcast audit.

8:14

And you'd like, alright. I'm in. I actually

8:17

need this. And now we're going

8:19

to interact here. And I'm

8:21

gonna I'll I'll follow-up and go, hey, I'd

8:23

love to let you advertising

8:25

ratio on my show with this audio clip. And

8:27

so it's always kinda like what's that next connection

8:29

opportunity? How else could I add value

8:31

and create something cool

8:33

where we're creating content here, but we're also gonna

8:36

create this other little side piece of content. Does that

8:38

make sense?

8:38

That's all it makes sense. That is genius.

8:41

I don't but, like, that's

8:43

genius. You're right. I we

8:45

met, I think, on podcast. Right?

8:47

Yeah. And that's

8:49

how I I want yeah, I

8:51

have to get a hold of Adam. Oh my god. Yes,

8:53

please. But

8:55

you have, but I don't know. Like, I I

8:57

forgot about Speak Pipe. Yeah.

8:58

I I don't know how that works. I haven't. And it's

9:01

free. I've got an episode where I

9:03

break down all my speed bike strategies, so I'll send

9:05

that to you. Because you you promised

9:07

to send me an episode about, you know, moving

9:09

to a new town and making friends. So

9:11

I'll I'll I'll listen to that. You listen to mine. Listen to

9:13

yours. It'll be a nice pod

9:15

swap. But I

9:17

think that, like, it's

9:19

a free app. It's super simple. You

9:21

think about different ways to

9:23

just It's it's just different than

9:26

submitting a rating review. Everybody hears

9:28

that on all the shows. But what's different is

9:30

you're going, I want you to be a part of

9:32

my show. So any interaction,

9:34

somebody emails you and they tell you they listen to your

9:36

show, DM on Instagram, different

9:39

things that I'm doing in that

9:42

moment. Number one, I'll

9:44

always ask him a question like,

9:46

what episode do you love the most? Or

9:48

what what should I be talking about that

9:50

I'm not? Kinda asked for feedback on the show so I can make it

9:52

better and serve them better. And

9:54

then we'll have a little conversation about that,

9:56

and then I'll usually hit them up and be like,

9:58

hey, a podcaster. I'd love for you to either

10:00

introduce my show or do an episode recommendation. If

10:02

they say they listen to my show, then I'll ask him

10:04

for a recommendation. I put those

10:06

on the show. So every episode on

10:08

Tuesday now, I've got a different

10:10

podcaster introducing my show. And at the

10:12

end, I sign off and I go, hey, Here's

10:14

AAA fan favorite episode from a pod

10:16

palologist like you and it's somebody going, this

10:18

is my favorite episode, and it's super

10:21

cool. Because it's not me

10:23

promoting my own show. It's somebody that listens

10:25

to my show and just

10:27

comes off differently and it's really

10:29

nice expert positioning for me. And

10:32

it's great for them because it's a we just collaborated

10:34

and created a little piece of content

10:35

together. That makes

10:36

sense. Yes, Adam. Yeah.

10:39

It's Okay. So, I mean,

10:41

really, the homework with this step, and I've got a

10:43

few other ideas for you that we're definitely gonna dive

10:45

into. But with this step,

10:47

Like, you could go back. Here here's

10:49

an easy way to do this. Like,

10:51

are you do you guys have an Instagram

10:54

account? Yes. Okay.

10:56

So go back to the

10:58

last ten people that followed you on

11:01

Instagram. And I want

11:03

you to send them a

11:05

voice message on Instagram

11:07

and just thank them for following

11:09

you. And so it could be something like this.

11:11

Like, I do that. I've done

11:13

probably thirty of these today. This morning.

11:15

Tuesdays and Wednesdays are when I do all my

11:17

Instagram follow ups and all all these things.

11:19

So I'll

11:21

go, hey, already out for podcasting

11:23

business school. Just wanna say thank you for following my

11:25

account here on Instagram. I'm really here to

11:27

engage. I want to prove that to you by sending you a

11:29

personalized voice message. I hope you're having a great

11:31

Tuesday. If you wanna talk podcasts, you want to

11:33

podcasting Q and A, I would love to do that.

11:35

Just let me know what I can help out with. By

11:37

the way, I just did an episode

11:39

on podcast Engagement. It's episode

11:41

three thirteen. This is a common pain

11:43

point for a lot of podcasters. I'll post

11:45

that link in the next message. I would love for you to check

11:47

it out. Boom. Done.

11:49

And then a lot of times,

11:51

like, holy crap. Like,

11:53

I listened to your show. I've already listened

11:55

to that episode, and now you're you're send

11:57

me a voice message. This is super cool.

12:00

Or they're like, I found your account. I'm

12:02

definitely gonna check out your show. And you

12:04

start a little conversation. And then you

12:06

go, if they do listen to your show, you ask them

12:08

for a little audio clip review

12:10

or, hey, you mean the world to me, if

12:12

you could got me quick rating review.

12:14

Or whatever it is that you're that that call

12:16

to action that you're promoting, or,

12:19

like, I'm getting ready to do a free audience engagement

12:21

challenge. And I could be, like, hey. Is this a

12:23

pain point that you have? If it is, this is a free

12:25

challenge I'm doing. I would really

12:27

recommend that you at least check it out. So

12:29

whatever that next thing is,

12:31

it's never buy something. Like, I

12:33

I'm never doing that from

12:35

that point. Like, people do buy things from me. I have

12:37

programs products and services, but it's never,

12:39

like, Like, even like,

12:41

we've interacted in person, Don, and

12:43

and we, like, are interacting now,

12:46

you're not gonna get this giant sales

12:48

at the end. Like, I think sometimes when

12:50

I do podcast audits, people were like, I wish you played

12:52

the whole thing where he sells them at the end. I'm like,

12:54

that doesn't exist. Like, that That's not

12:56

a part of this thing. Like, Fawn

12:58

is gonna be in my world a little bit deeper

13:00

now. She's gonna know what I do to

13:02

feed the kids. And if there's a time

13:04

that comes down the road, hopefully, on top of mind, if

13:06

she's ready for something like that, like, that's

13:08

just how I operate. So

13:10

I think it's very refreshing for

13:13

people that, a, you're initiating

13:15

engagement, you're jumping out there, and it'll

13:17

create conversations. And then all of

13:19

a sudden, you've got see these people

13:21

popping up, and they're the ones commenting on your

13:23

post. And, oh, that was a great episode. And I

13:25

really like this or that. And it's all

13:27

because you kicked off the conversation, didn't

13:29

sit back and wait for it to

13:30

happen. Does that make sense? Yeah.

13:32

Absolutely. And this also helps them

13:34

out. So, for example, we just

13:36

have to be vegan, and we have a

13:38

lot followers that are vegan on

13:40

Instagram. Mhmm. So, like, a lot of

13:42

them are really incredible

13:44

influencers. But, like, if they

13:46

commented and if their voice was

13:48

on, and if I use that, it

13:50

promotes their their

13:52

thing too. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

13:54

And, like, you look

13:56

for that opportunity. Like for

13:58

some people, they're just super fans of your show, and it's

14:00

super cool if they just get to

14:02

hear their voice on your show. And that's

14:04

that's enough. But for me,

14:07

I like to up the ante a little bit and go,

14:09

I you have to be to be able to do

14:11

this audio clip for me. You have to promote your

14:13

own show on my show. Like, that's about it.

14:15

It's part of it. I send them a little script. It's like,

14:17

hello, I am XYZ

14:19

from the XYZ podcast. My favorite

14:21

episode of Podcasting Business School is XYZ

14:24

because XYZ And that way,

14:26

I give them very specific instructions so

14:28

they're all and, like, it has to be under

14:30

sixty seconds. It can't be

14:32

a a ten minute solo podcast

14:34

episode at the end of my my show.

14:36

So being very specific, keeping

14:39

it simple, letting people know, hey, when you hit the

14:41

button, you can rerecord it as often as many

14:43

times as you want. If you're not happy with the audio,

14:45

you can record it, listen to it back, rerecord

14:47

it, only until you hit the send button

14:49

will actually come into my

14:50

inbox. So

14:51

I love that, Adam. So, Adam, this is

14:54

all Speak Pipe. Is that what I'm

14:55

saying? All on Speak Pipe. Yep. Wow. And

14:57

it's free.

14:57

Like, as long as I mean, if you're gonna

15:00

store it all in there for some reason, you have to

15:02

eventually pay at a certain storage

15:04

limit, but I just stored on an external

15:06

hard drive, so I can reuse it, and I'm good

15:08

to go. And that takes two

15:09

seconds. Like, speakers and speaking

15:11

-- Yep. -- speaker type. Speak

15:13

pipe. Yep. Wow. Thank you.

15:15

Yeah. This is this

15:17

is this is gonna help. And Yeah.

15:19

Just when we look at engagement

15:22

in general, you can

15:24

never go wrong by bringing listeners

15:26

or potential listeners and collaborating

15:28

with them in your ecosystem. Whether it's an

15:30

Instagram live, whether it's doing, like, what we're

15:32

doing here, like, I know when

15:34

you fill out your information, you talked about

15:36

how you're development with some offers and some

15:38

some dental courses or or

15:40

or whatever. Like, this is a

15:43

great way. What we're doing here is great for

15:45

expert positioning. And

15:47

that's something that you could eventually

15:49

start doing and invite listeners to come on.

15:51

And, like, if you are you're

15:53

teaching people how to have

15:55

better friendships and create

15:57

friendships and have, you know, that's really

15:59

important. In the in the day to age that we

16:01

live in, So that's

16:03

definitely something that I could see.

16:05

Also looking at opportunities like what I do

16:07

with my my monthly podcast, Zoom party, where

16:09

I invite twenty or so listeners on. We have

16:11

kinda, like, you've talked about having, like, round tables

16:13

before. So it's a very similar

16:15

concept, except you're doing it with

16:17

listeners. And it's just like a and

16:19

that leads into, you know, high quality

16:21

relationship building, which is kinda

16:23

what your shows about anyway. So

16:25

this is like it's like the art of friendship

16:27

relationship building and so it's it's

16:29

definitely in your wheelhouse. So I think you'll have a

16:31

really great time with all

16:33

that. And then the really nice thing, Fawn,

16:36

is that I get I know some people are

16:38

listening to this and they're like, man, this sounds like a lot of work

16:40

and it is. But it really

16:42

is. But, like, when

16:44

you start with a smaller

16:46

audience, we have to get out of our

16:48

head about that smaller audience

16:50

and go can I turn this into an advantage? And the

16:52

advantage is that you can meet these people. You can

16:54

build real relationships with a high

16:56

majority of your listenership.

16:58

If you have forty one downloads

17:00

per episode right now. Go make forty

17:02

one friends. Like, that's what we need to be

17:04

thinking, not I wish I had forty one thousand.

17:07

Like, that they may or may not

17:09

come. I know people that have,

17:11

you know, that hundreds of thousands

17:13

of downloads every month, and they can't keep up

17:15

with their DM. So let's

17:17

reverse engineer all that and go, let me make

17:19

as many true friends

17:21

and build real relationships with these

17:23

listeners and create super fan because one superfan will

17:25

turn into ten other people because

17:27

they go and tell people. You know what I'm

17:29

saying? Like, they're in their little circles

17:32

of you know, they probably have similar interests

17:34

or whatever, and they're gonna recommend your show, and that's still

17:36

the number one way that people find out about podcasts.

17:38

So -- Mhmm. -- it's a longer

17:41

play

17:42

but it's a higher quality play. And if you do I

17:44

I definitely think you should start selling programs, products,

17:46

and services. That's a definite recommendation

17:49

from my my standpoint here.

17:52

Like, you can do so much

17:54

better business wise with a smaller

17:57

audience if you do this this relationship

17:59

building focus and not worry about

18:01

having hundreds of thousands of listeners

18:03

to get sponsors and all this. Like, I won't

18:05

take a sponsor because my opinion

18:07

sponsors are a pain and

18:09

So I will only sell my

18:11

own stuff and that's because I've

18:13

got a real tight knit

18:15

super fan based audience where

18:18

I I've legit DM

18:20

ed. I've interacted. You know,

18:22

we've spoken through podcasts. Like, I've

18:24

got an eyeball to eyeball or DM

18:26

voice message with so many a very

18:28

high percentage, and it is a

18:31

lot of work, but it's totally worth

18:33

it. So I always have to kinda put that disclaimer

18:34

around. Does that make sense? It it

18:36

absolutely does. And, yeah, it's quality.

18:40

And one of the reasons we

18:42

started this whole friendship movement because,

18:44

you know, we we would see so many people

18:46

and they would have so many friends.

18:49

And really looking at it. I mean,

18:51

there's a long deeper story behind how

18:53

we started our our this

18:55

movement. But we were looking at

18:57

all these people thinking they had so

18:59

many friends. And really what it

19:01

was was just like or

19:05

followers. Yeah. And those are not

19:07

friends. And -- Yeah. -- I you're

19:09

absolutely right. And it's

19:12

it's it's it's the

19:14

quality and it's being able to

19:16

connect with people. Yeah. Yeah.

19:18

Yeah. You can't you can't really do that with

19:20

forty thousand downloads per episode

19:22

or forty thousand people. Yep.

19:25

So that makes me feel better. Thank

19:27

you so much because Yeah. I

19:29

I do enjoy every single person that's

19:32

listening. But then

19:34

there's this stress that comes in because you're listening

19:36

to the outside world

19:38

thing. How many demos do you

19:39

have? Right. How many do you have?

19:42

And how are you monetizing? And how

19:44

how how and how many how many that's

19:46

stress takes over the

19:48

the genuine passion

19:50

for why we're doing this. Yeah. You

19:52

know, and to hear you just

19:55

say everything you just said really calms

19:57

me, soothes me, and I feel

19:59

like I'm on track again. Good.

20:02

Names you.

20:03

Alright. That's mission accomplished

20:06

then. I mean, that's why it exists in this

20:08

space fund. And

20:10

I I last week, I I just recorded an

20:13

episode. Somebody sent

20:15

me a a direct message on Instagram saying, hey, I'm

20:17

really struggling right now, thinking about

20:19

quitting. I don't wanna quit, but I'm just really in

20:21

my head about it. Do you have an episode

20:24

about, you know, kind of a a

20:26

motivational speech for podcasters? was

20:28

like, no, but I'm gonna record it today. And

20:30

it's gonna be dedicated to you. I didn't I didn't, like,

20:32

mention their name, but they know who they are.

20:35

By the time this episode airs, it'll it'll have been out. But

20:37

in real time, it'll be next week that it comes

20:40

out. But, like, that's why I

20:42

exist in this space because I

20:44

struggled so hard my first couple of

20:45

years, really my first three years

20:48

of being in the podcasting space.

20:50

I was just

20:50

so driven

20:53

And my ultimately, my why was bigger than the combined force

20:55

of all the why nots that hit me day

20:57

after day, so I just stuck with it, and

20:59

I eventually figured it out. I know a lot

21:01

of people won't stick around to figure it out. So I'm

21:03

like, that's why this show exists to

21:06

shorten your learning curve. I

21:08

unpack all the mistakes that I made all

21:10

of them. And that's un I'm

21:11

unashamed of that. I'm like, that's how I've learned everything

21:13

I've learned because I've screwed it up first, a hundred percent

21:16

truth. And I share that on

21:18

the show, and I'm like, alright. This needs to be a

21:20

resource. So fewer people quit. And that's, you know,

21:22

kinda plug into my Moe, Jones, I build up your

21:24

own. That's that's the the mantra here. So I'm

21:26

glad that that has served

21:29

you. Now, I I gotta mention

21:31

one thing that maybe not

21:33

it's a simple fix, but then maybe not an

21:35

easy one because we're talking about branding. And we're talking

21:38

about the title of your

21:40

show could potentially be holding things

21:42

back from a search engine perspective,

21:44

but could just be a minor tweak, which

21:46

would be nice. Alright? And,

21:48

like, I always kind of put

21:50

my what's the

21:53

analogy about gloves? Like, putting on, like, the soft

21:55

gloves when I when I deal with this topic.

21:57

Because it's it's a sensitive thing. People get really

21:59

dialed into the name of their show. It's a part of

22:01

their identity. But

22:04

I think if people are searching for

22:06

like a relationship based

22:08

podcast, your show would

22:10

probably pull up, but our

22:12

friendly world, they may not get it.

22:14

Like, they may not understand what that

22:18

is. So, like

22:21

and I mean, something like the

22:23

When you said the friendship

22:26

movement, like, that kind of hit me between

22:28

the eyes. I was like, you know what? If I was doing this

22:30

that's how I call the show. But,

22:33

like, that to me says, like,

22:35

okay. That's what this is about.

22:37

Because our friendly world, it could be

22:39

about, like, world peace, you

22:41

know. It could be about, you

22:43

know, enemies, you

22:45

know, like enemy nations dealing with each

22:47

other. Like, those are a few things. I'm like, what

22:49

could people accidentally be thinking

22:51

about when they see this name

22:53

because podcast search

22:55

engine optimization is different

22:57

than, like, website optimization and Google

23:00

optimization just because we have to

23:02

think, what would somebody

23:04

enter in Apple Podcasts or

23:06

Spotify if they're looking for a show

23:08

like mine? And that may be different.

23:10

Like Google would be like,

23:12

how to make friends or whatever.

23:14

But they're probably not gonna put how to make

23:16

friends and Apple

23:18

or Spotify. Does that make sense?

23:20

Yeah. So we have to think they're probably

23:22

gonna put in relationships, friendships,

23:27

networking I don't know, like, some keywords like that.

23:29

So we have to put our hat on and go,

23:31

what what they search in the actual podcast players?

23:33

What are podcast listeners searching

23:35

in podcast

23:36

players? Not necessarily website

23:39

stuff. So I would just kind

23:41

of look at

23:43

that and just kind of ponder that a

23:46

little bit and and see I've seen

23:48

people just make one word,

23:50

insert one keyword into

23:52

their epic their their the name of their show. And

23:54

my God, it just takes off, like, that was

23:56

the thing that was just

23:59

kind of damning up all the

23:59

water. All of a sudden, it just broke loose and the

24:02

right people found their show. So does that make

24:04

sense? I'm taking notes

24:04

like crazy. Yes. Okay.

24:07

And, like, if you're open to this, like, definitely I

24:10

mean, I think a

24:12

key word word be

24:14

relationship. What categories are you

24:17

listed in, in like

24:19

Apple? You know, it's interesting you should say

24:21

that. Society were

24:23

listed under a friendship, but

24:27

I'm

24:29

thinking of switching it and adding

24:32

psychology to Because -- Yeah. --

24:34

everything we talk about is what, you

24:36

know, major psychologists and

24:38

like Bernard Allen talks about.

24:40

But I don't follow Renee Brown. Like, I just recently

24:43

started listening to her and I'm thinking,

24:45

oh my god. She's saying what I've been

24:47

saying for years. Before

24:49

I even like, I didn't know

24:51

about her. Yeah. And I don't

24:53

have that degree, but I

24:56

definitely because I'm a documentary photographer,

24:58

and there I've

25:00

been doing the research for

25:02

decades on this what

25:04

we're talking about. So I know what I'm talking

25:07

about. I don't have an MD. You know, I don't

25:09

have a degree, but it's

25:11

definitely

25:11

psychology. So I'm thinking of switching

25:13

it to that.

25:16

Yeah.

25:16

As well as friendship. Franchise

25:19

psychology.

25:19

Yeah. Like, having

25:23

something that I I want a little bit of

25:25

keyword. I want a little bit of an identifier

25:27

where they go, oh, that's for me.

25:29

So

25:30

Yeah. No.

25:31

We have loneliness epidemic in

25:33

there, but I don't like it because

25:35

that's negative and it -- Yeah. --

25:36

runs people off because no

25:39

one wants to admit that they're lonely,

25:41

but really that is what's

25:43

happening with everyone. And I think

25:45

everyone's taking up to personally

25:47

like they're ashamed if they

25:49

don't have that close actual

25:51

physical friend. Yeah. And

25:53

most of us don't have that.

25:56

Yeah. And I think

25:57

so, anyway, that's

25:59

the words that describe our

26:01

show are along that that

26:03

-- Yeah. -- along that end. Yep.

26:06

But our show is actually quite

26:08

positive and fun.

26:10

You know, it's it's just commenting

26:13

and talking about all aspects

26:15

of life really and

26:17

helping each other to

26:18

thrive, help helping each other to

26:21

transform -- Yeah. --

26:21

to a better person and and

26:24

having a better life. That's

26:26

what we're about. But, yeah, the wording is tricky

26:28

when you have only a certain allotted

26:30

amount of words you're allowed to use.

26:32

What about, like, If we could

26:34

think the word relationship or relationships in

26:37

there along with friendship, I think that would

26:39

be an SEO bomb. That

26:41

we really take advantage of. So what about,

26:44

like, transformative friendships

26:46

and relationships or something like that?

26:48

Or the the friendship and relationship

26:51

movement or better

26:53

friendships and relationships. Like,

26:55

I would just the

26:58

real strategy here is the

27:00

title needs to be almost

27:02

like not artsy and creative.

27:04

I want your content to be artsy and creative.

27:06

I want the title has to be the

27:09

right thing get the right person in front of it. So

27:11

very direct, almost kind of vanilla.

27:13

Like podcasting business school is not like a

27:15

super cool name, but it pulls

27:17

in the right people. And then I can,

27:19

you know, drop my content, bombs, and be

27:21

like, oh, this is blowing my mind. It's

27:23

amazing. So like, we wanna have

27:25

that right mix,

27:27

but I would challenge you to just

27:29

look at your keywords, make a

27:31

little list put them in different orders, add

27:33

different identifying terms. And so

27:35

you end up with something that's two,

27:37

three, or four words long.

27:39

That has that right mix of I know exactly what this is

27:41

when I say it, my listeners, my ideal

27:43

listeners know exactly what it is when

27:45

they read

27:46

it, then, you know, it's got

27:48

the SEO factor as well. Does that make

27:50

sense? And thanks so much, Sense. I wish I

27:52

had AII actually

27:55

went through schooling to learn

27:57

how to podcast, but they didn't

27:59

really spend any time on

28:01

the development of your type all.

28:03

And now now it's

28:05

scary because I don't know how that all

28:07

works. Like, Adam, what if I

28:09

change the title? Do I have to start from

28:11

scratch? Or is it kind of like when you have a website that

28:13

you can have that you can

28:15

still have that old

28:16

URL, but, like, have

28:19

it You can redirect it. Yeah. So Direct

28:21

it. Yeah. Yeah. I've got a rebranding

28:23

episode that I'll send you to. Like, the the

28:25

it'll walk you through it, but it's basically

28:29

It's very simple. Alright. Very

28:32

simple. You change the name in your

28:34

host, like, lip center sprateral

28:36

every host, and then you'll change the image that

28:38

shows up on people's phones, and

28:40

it's done. And everything is already. You keep

28:42

all your subscribers. It's not a new feed. It's

28:44

not a new show. And, you know,

28:46

you should probably I usually use,

28:48

like, a three week strategy. I do a lot

28:50

of re you know, paid rebrand solsom

28:53

when people are like, alright. Just tell them, dude, I'll pay you,

28:55

then I go, okay. Here's A3A3

28:57

step process, and it's usually gonna be,

29:00

like, into an episode where you mentioned that the show's gonna

29:02

be rebranded. In the next episode, kind of

29:04

the last episode of the old brand

29:07

will be an explainer of why

29:09

it's your rebranding. Like, it's all about

29:11

the rebrand. And the next episode is the first

29:13

episode of the rebranded show. Does that make

29:15

sense? It does. So you don't

29:16

wanna just pull the RipCord and all of a sudden, new show,

29:18

new image in our just confused as to,

29:21

like, where am I? And who is

29:23

this podcast?

29:25

Did you say you have to switch

29:27

your your host? I have

29:29

to switch No. You don't have to switch your host. But

29:31

in in your host, you would just update

29:33

the name and the show art and that's

29:35

it and the show description and you're

29:37

good to go.

29:38

Can I ask you a question about art? Of

29:40

course. Art. So

29:42

our art is black and white,

29:44

and it's like There

29:46

aren't that many black and white photos out

29:48

there. Is that a big deal? Would it be

29:50

better to have color?

29:51

Here's what I would

29:53

do. Show Art Tips, 101

29:55

with Adam. First thing I

29:57

like is get

29:59

as big bold

30:01

font as possible. So

30:03

you can see, like, my logo behind me.

30:06

Like, the word podcasting honestly

30:08

holds me back because it's a long word and I

30:10

tried to stretch it across the whole thing and it

30:12

limited my space for the other. Like, I

30:14

won't put my big bald head up there because

30:16

nobody knows who I am. So why would I

30:18

use up that little that that shows up on

30:20

a phone tiny, you know? So

30:22

I need big bold letters that

30:24

cover that whole square as much as

30:26

possible. And I'm cool black

30:28

and white, but I want you to get

30:30

some bright color and

30:32

highlight one word. So

30:34

friendship, relationship, whatever,

30:36

hot pink, different font. Something

30:38

just a little spicy. So that

30:41

really shows up. That's

30:43

I think I'm a big fan of

30:45

having one highlight word or

30:47

color highlight that's just different

30:49

than everything else that really catches

30:51

the eye and they

30:52

go, oh, friendship. This is

30:55

for me. That makes sense. Thank you. Yeah.

30:57

Totally. So to

30:59

to reiterate, I

31:02

hate being photographed. So we

31:04

don't have to have the photograph there. No.

31:06

Because I just oh, really. I wouldn't.

31:08

One. Yes. Thank you. I wouldn't.

31:10

I mean, unless you're world famous,

31:12

If you're a real famous actor or something, if

31:15

you're Matthew McConaughey, and you're gonna do the Matthew

31:17

McConhey show, yeah, you're facing to be on there, that's

31:19

all that it'll take. But people

31:21

like you and I that aren't like world famous

31:23

actors or singers or

31:23

whatever. It's like, alright, my face doesn't need to be on

31:26

there. It just takes up space. Thank

31:28

you. It was torture. I'm a photographer. I

31:30

don't like being in front of the camera. It was

31:33

torture.

31:33

Yeah. You have photoshoot.

31:35

I wasn't about But

31:36

with Matt, like, both of us. And Yeah.

31:38

Two people. That's that's two heads. That takes up a lot of

31:41

space. And And

31:43

so the last thing on this, don't use

31:45

any, like, real slender, like, cursive

31:47

font or anything like that. Like, whatever

31:50

you're highlight word is. Make sure that's a

31:52

different font, but still thick and chunky

31:54

and and different color. But make sure

31:56

it's like you gotta remember tiny

31:58

square on a phone screen, and there's gonna

32:00

be twenty other if they search friendship,

32:03

you pull up, there's gonna be twenty other shows

32:05

on that screen with them. So

32:07

I really like the idea of that black and white,

32:09

hot pink, or bright yellow, or orange,

32:11

or something like an on brand

32:12

color, a little different font,

32:15

highlight it. I think they'll turn up pretty nice for you.

32:17

I love

32:18

you. This is a big screen.

32:21

Thank you. Alright. Well,

32:23

before we sign off, let's make sure that you get to

32:25

shout out your website and and all that good stuff.

32:27

So if somebody wants to check out your

32:29

show, they wanna, you

32:31

know, connect with you or maybe you'd be a

32:33

great guest for their

32:34

show? How do people get into your world their fun?

32:37

Well, the easiest way, we're all over

32:39

the place, but it's our friendly Podcasts

32:41

dot com is our

32:44

website. And from there, you

32:46

can find out everything about us,

32:48

everything, everything is

32:50

on there. Our show is called our

32:52

friendly world with fun and met, but

32:54

obviously that's going to change soon. But

32:56

if you go to our friendly world podcast

32:59

dot com, You can reach us

33:01

there, you can hear all the

33:03

episodes, you can read all the articles

33:05

written about us, how we

33:07

started this whole movement, you

33:09

can look into the

33:12

photography projects. I'm a

33:14

documentary photographer that started all

33:16

of this. It's all

33:18

there. Nice.

33:19

Alright. Welcome. Thank you so much. Fun.

33:21

I appreciate you. And if anybody listening in

33:23

wants to be just like my pod,

33:26

Balfon, here. And you should. Make sure you

33:28

get signed up for podcast audit.

33:30

Go to the website, WWW dot

33:32

podcastingbusiness dot school get

33:34

signed up, and we'll get you booked.

33:36

Alright. I appreciate you all for listening

33:38

in. Hopefully, you got something out of this

33:41

session here. I'm gonna send you out into the world

33:43

wishing you health happiness, and many

33:45

downloads. We'll see you next

33:47

time. Hey there. Good looking. If you

33:49

are ready to explore the idea

33:51

of monetizing your podcast with a coaching

33:53

or consulting offer, then you

33:55

need to get signed up for my free

33:57

three week coaching and consulting

33:59

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34:01

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34:03

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34:05

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34:07

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34:09

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week coaching consulting offer thing

34:13

tank starts on January

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34:18

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34:20

head on over to the website WWW

34:23

dot podcastingbusiness dot

34:26

school. That's podcasting business dot

34:28

school.