0:00

It's Friday , April the 26th , 2024

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.

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The last word in podcasting news

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. This is the Podnews

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Weekly Review with James Cridland

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and Sam Sethi .

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I'm James Cridland , the editor of Podn ews

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, and I'm Sam Sethi , the CEO of TrueFans

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In the chapters today . Happy 10th birthday

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to Acast . Happy 18th birthday

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to Spotify , but are they still a

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member of the IAB ? No , Goodbye

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, Google Podcasts . We now have a date for that

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for the rest of the world , and Spotify makes a billion

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dollars and is profitable

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Plus .

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I'm Katherine Musilek from Shark Party

0:37

Media , and later we'll talk

0:39

about podcast guesting .

0:41

And we'll also hear from Acast CEO

0:43

Ross Adams on the 10th anniversary

0:45

of the company . This podcast

0:47

is sponsored by Buzzsprout podcast hosting

0:50

, made easy with easy and powerful

0:52

tools , free learning materials , remarkable

0:55

customer support and a new iOS

0:58

app . From your daily newsletter

1:00

, the Podn ews Weekly Review .

1:02

So , james , let's start off with

1:04

$1 billion . Now , that's

1:06

a lovely number . Is that

1:08

what we got for our new sponsorship package

1:11

? Is that what we have ?

1:13

Oh yeah , that would be nice , wouldn't it ? That would be

1:15

very nice .

1:17

No , it looks like Spotify's got a birthday

1:19

present . It turned 18 and it

1:21

just turned over $1 billion

1:23

in the last quarter . They're profitable , James . Sounds

1:26

all very good to them .

1:27

Yes , they are profitable , and real profit as well

1:29

. So that's making

1:31

over €1 billion

1:34

, but also €1 billion gross

1:36

profit for the first time in their history

1:38

. Last quarter , they also returned

1:41

€197 million

1:43

of net income . Net

1:45

income is what I would call profit , and

1:48

indeed I spent a long time sitting

1:50

there Richard Craven will be having a listen to

1:53

this laughing but I spent a long time trying

1:55

to work out whether net income

1:57

was actually profit , and

2:00

it kind of is . It is yeah , so

2:02

that was good , that was good fun . So , yes , they

2:04

seem to have posted some very good figures

2:07

, which is nice , I mean . Obviously

2:09

, you know they've posted a

2:11

very good increase in their gross

2:13

margin , worthwhile pointing out that

2:15

one of the ways of increasing that gross margin

2:17

is by firing over 2,300

2:20

people and by raising their prices

2:22

, so we shouldn't sort of overlook that . But

2:25

, yeah , they're doing very well in terms of ad revenue as

2:27

well and everything else .

2:29

Yeah , the market liked it . It was up 16%

2:32

their stock . Considering

2:34

two years ago , the stock was at its lowest ever

2:36

level . That's not bad , but

2:38

I don't think . Going back

2:41

to what you just said , I don't think they can reduce

2:43

costs further . Maybe they can a

2:45

few more people , but I don't think to the extent of

2:47

2,000 plus people . And

2:49

I think also they've got to worry that they

2:51

can't put the price up a lot more . The

2:53

price elasticity of the

2:55

subscription is going to actually

2:57

snap at some point . You can't keep putting it up

3:00

and continue to add

3:02

more MAUs . So monthly active

3:04

users so something somewhere

3:06

, I think , along the line has got to give

3:08

them more revenue . Could

3:11

it be audiobooks , Could it be , I

3:13

don't know , another subscription model

3:15

somewhere ? What could they do , James ?

3:17

Yeah , I mean it could be audiobooks . It could , of course , be

3:19

podcast advertising . They

3:27

are already the largest in the world in terms of audio advertising overall , so it could

3:29

be that too . The monthly active users

3:31

that I saw they

3:34

actually underperformed . That was one part

3:36

where they didn't do as well as they thought that they were

3:38

going to . They only

3:40

grew 19% year on year . I mean

3:43

that's still a pretty good growth , but they only grew 19%

3:45

year on year . Yeah , to 615

3:48

million users , and

3:51

that's monthly active users . But paid

3:53

subscribers should follow

3:55

the same path

3:57

. You would assume . If

4:00

monthly active users have grown

4:02

19% , you would expect paid subscribers

4:04

to grow 19% as well . But no , paid

4:07

subscribers only grew by 14%

4:09

to 239 million . So

4:12

just you know , worthwhile

4:14

looking at those figures and going . Well

4:16

, actually , you know , is Spotify

4:19

turning away from

4:21

being a premium paid

4:23

product and

4:25

turning into something which

4:27

is actually far more ad funded than

4:29

it's been in the past , and

4:31

that may be part

4:34

of the change , the overall change that

4:36

we're seeing in Spotify .

4:39

One of the things in the report that I read

4:41

was that the Activist Investor

4:44

Value Act , which took a stake in the company

4:46

a year ago , has doubled the

4:48

value of its investment . So

4:51

it's got a 0.5% stake

4:53

in Spotify , but

4:55

it's valued its stake

4:57

at 280 million , which was again

5:00

, as I said , double what it had last year . So

5:02

they must be very happy . But I think they're

5:04

one of the agitators who went for profit

5:06

, profit , profit , Mr Spotify , by

5:09

cutting and increasing prices . Agitated

5:13

investors or activist

5:15

investors are annoying to boards I know

5:17

that my wife has to deal with many of them and

5:20

they only go on there for one reason , that's

5:22

to take money out of the company as fast as they

5:24

can through profitisation .

5:26

Yeah , no , I mean I think

5:29

that there's certainly been a lot of disquiet

5:31

, both from this particular set of

5:33

company but also from investment

5:36

analysts . You know as well Richard

5:40

Kramer . You know Arete

5:42

Investments analyst

5:45

has been very down

5:47

on Spotify . You

5:49

know and

5:56

down on the business and you know one would assume that he is feeling

5:59

a little bit happier about Spotify today after this quarter's results

6:01

. So yeah , I think there has been a

6:03

lot of concern

6:05

over Spotify's . You

6:08

know trajectory in this industry

6:10

and nice to see , you

6:13

know , some good news coming out

6:15

of that organisation

6:17

, although , as you say , at what cost ?

6:20

Anyway , moving on , let's see if they can repeat the act

6:23

in the next quarter . Moving on , um

6:25

spotify seems to have left the building

6:27

, james , or at least they've left the iab

6:29

yes , spotify leaving

6:31

the iab is a big deal

6:34

.

6:34

Um and um . They were

6:37

very quiet about it . It took um

6:39

three months for anybody to notice

6:41

. Um and uh

6:44

, I ended up um , I ended

6:46

up spotting a little bit of this because

6:48

I was there going oh , that's interesting . On

6:50

the IAB's technical working

6:52

group page , Spotify's

6:56

contact was somebody that no longer works for Spotify

6:58

. So I thought , well , that's interesting , I can at least find

7:00

out a little bit more about that . So

7:03

, working with them , trying

7:05

to understand what was going

7:07

on , they were very cagey

7:09

and it turned out that Spotify probably left

7:12

the IAB at the beginning of this year . So

7:15

if you look at Spotify's Megaphone

7:17

Chartable and

7:19

the artist formerly known

7:21

as Anka Spotify

7:23

for podcasters , none of those companies

7:26

are now IAB certified

7:28

. They claim that they're compliant

7:30

still , but they're

7:32

not properly IAB certified . So therefore

7:35

, those numbers that

7:37

Spotify are actually giving

7:39

out there are actually , you know , not

7:42

certified and you just have to take

7:44

them on trust , which is a big

7:46

change .

7:46

I think what you're telling me . Iab have

7:49

got some uncertified numbers , Wow

7:51

.

7:52

I mean the IAB hasn't . And

7:54

I think this is part of the problem

7:56

that the IAB

7:58

is used in the industry as

8:00

we're IAB compliant . Well , iab

8:02

compliant means absolutely nothing . The only

8:04

thing that IAB compliant means is

8:06

that we've looked at the IAB's rules . As

8:08

a company , we've looked at the IAB's

8:10

rules and we think that we're doing the right thing

8:13

, but the IAB

8:15

certainly hasn't checked them . So

8:17

you know there's a big difference

8:19

between IAB compliant and IAB

8:21

certified . I wrote a opinion

8:24

piece which I hid a little bit this week , but

8:27

my opinion piece was essentially saying

8:29

to the IAB you have passing

8:31

off laws on your side . You have

8:33

trademark laws on your side to

8:35

stop people saying that they're IAB

8:38

compliant . Say that you're compliant , by all

8:40

means . Say that you're compliant to the podcast

8:42

measurement guidelines Absolutely . That's absolutely

8:44

fine . Don't use the IAB

8:47

in that to deliberately

8:49

in some cases confuse the

8:51

market . Don't do that

8:54

. Just call yourself compliant

8:56

, that's fine . And I'm really

8:58

surprised why the IAB isn't doing

9:01

that . Isn't policing the use of its name

9:03

a little bit more

9:05

? But I think you know . Coming back to the

9:07

thing around Spotify's

9:10

IAB , you

9:12

know work . I think you know the IAB

9:14

. We all know that

9:16

the IAB certifies numbers for

9:19

downloads and for total listeners

9:21

. So those are the two big numbers that the IAB

9:24

certifies for . But the IAB

9:26

also certifies for two

9:28

additional numbers . One

9:31

of them is ad delivery and one

9:33

of them is client-confirmed ad play

9:35

. So ad delivery is if an ad

9:37

was actually delivered to a

9:39

listener . So say , you've

9:41

got an IAB download , you've

9:44

already downloaded a minute of the audio , that's fine

9:46

, but the ad is only

9:48

30 minutes

9:50

into the show . That

9:53

ad may not be delivered to a

9:55

listener and it's up to a

9:58

Spotify or you

10:00

know other people to actually send

10:02

that signal back to the person that

10:04

bought the ad that the ad was actually

10:07

delivered and indeed played . So

10:10

you end up with this thing . You know those numbers

10:12

are basically

10:15

how advertisers charge . So

10:17

you end up with ads delivery no

10:19

longer being certified by the IAB

10:22

. So we just have

10:24

to trust Spotify's numbers in

10:26

terms of ad delivery and I think

10:28

that's a much bigger deal than

10:31

whether or not their download figures or their listener

10:33

metrics are going to be important . So

10:36

really interesting . And what

10:39

I also found interesting was , as

10:41

I understand it , virtually

10:44

every company that hosts with

10:46

Megaphone particularly

10:49

because Megaphone is the big enterprise

10:51

podcast host virtually every

10:53

single company had no idea that Spotify

10:56

had come out of the IAB and that the

10:58

platform that they are on that they were paying

11:00

for is no longer certified , which

11:03

says quite a lot , I think paying

11:07

for is no longer certified , which says quite a lot , I think , about what's

11:09

going on with that . Do you know what my new theory is around why Spotify have no

11:12

longer doing this ? I

11:14

mean , I think partially , it's quite expensive

11:16

to be a member of the IAB if you're the size of

11:18

Spotify , but

11:21

I think also , on the other side , spotify

11:24

have fired so many people . I

11:26

actually wonder whether or not anybody

11:28

in senior management at Spotify understood

11:30

what the IAB was doing there . Anyway . There

11:34

was a point a couple of years ago you might remember

11:37

, where Megaphone actually forgot

11:39

to renew a

11:41

certificate that they used for

11:44

their website Literally forgot , and

11:47

it pulled everything down for 12 hours

11:49

as somebody in IT scrabbled

11:52

to turn everything off and turn everything

11:54

back on again , and similarly

11:56

, megaphone , of course , used to be

11:58

called Panoply and panoplyfm

12:01

. Spotify let that domain name

12:04

lapse and it's now owned by

12:06

I think it's owned by a scam company

12:08

and pornographers and various

12:11

other weird and wonderful things . I just

12:13

wonder whether it's another one of those mistakes where

12:15

they've actually fired too much company knowledge

12:18

to be able to go . Oh

12:20

, we should really be spending the it's

12:22

only you know , it's

12:25

only $9,000 for

12:27

them to renew it . We should be

12:29

spending the $9,000 to renew Megaphone

12:32

in terms of a certificate , but

12:34

walking away from IB membership

12:37

I just find really weird .

12:40

Well , somebody who hasn't walked away is Libsyn . They're

12:43

recertified . Captivate

12:45

and Buzzsprout were last

12:47

certified under version 2 in 2020

12:51

, but both companies say they're in the process of

12:53

recertification have

13:09

got rid of .

13:09

well , the IAB ended up saying to me that the only people

13:11

now listed in the certification page on the IAB website are companies

13:14

who have recertified or companies who

13:16

are in the process of . So

13:18

neither Captivate or our sponsors

13:20

, Buzzsprout , have actually told

13:22

us that that's the case , but they

13:24

appear to be there , but they appear

13:27

to be still there . So therefore you

13:30

can assume from that that they have made a

13:32

decision , and probably the right one , to recertify

13:35

. So yeah , just

13:37

to be crystal clear , because I don't want to put words into

13:40

either Mark or Kevin's

13:42

mouth Exactly .

13:42

That would be a mistake . Yes , one

13:45

thing that did come out from the IAB yesterday was

13:47

the UK digital ad spend report

13:49

for 2023 , and spend

13:51

on podcasts , they say , grew 23%

13:55

to 83 million in the UK

13:57

, james .

14:00

Yes , and that number came out now . The weird thing about

14:02

the IAB is that the IAB UK has actually

14:04

very little to do about the IAB . Is that the IAB UK is actually very little to do with the IAB US

14:06

and , in fact , iab

14:09

certification ? Certainly

14:12

, when I was talking to the IAB

14:14

UK a number of years

14:16

ago , when podcast measurement guidelines

14:18

first came out , the IAB

14:20

UK actually had different guidelines . Can

14:23

you believe it ? So

14:25

the IAB in Australia have agreed

14:27

with the IAB US's

14:30

podcast measurement guidelines . But yes

14:32

, they're all different organisations

14:34

. They don't necessarily talk to

14:36

each other , which I find fascinating . But

14:39

yeah , so what they say is that podcast advertising

14:41

in the company grew 23% year on year

14:44

. £83 million

14:46

is US 103 million US dollars . I

14:50

worked out , given

14:53

that we also know the IRB US's numbers

14:55

as well , for internet audio

14:57

. We don't know podcasting

15:00

yet , but for internet audio that

15:02

tells me that the UK market if you

15:04

adjust it for population , the UK market

15:06

is seven times smaller is

15:09

earning seven times less money than the US market

15:11

, which is quite a thing , isn't ?

15:14

it Is the IAB , you know . Has its time

15:17

come and gone ? Is it time

15:19

to put it down ? You know kindly

15:21

.

15:22

I mean , I think there's two things to

15:25

this . One thing is what would happen

15:27

if iHeart was to

15:29

take a cue from Spotify and come out of the IAB

15:31

tomorrow ? There's absolutely no suggestion

15:34

that they will , but what would happen to

15:36

the IAB if that was the case ? I

15:38

would suggest to you that that would

15:40

be the thing that killed

15:42

the IAB in terms of podcast measurement

15:45

. So I think you've got sort

15:47

of one side on that . You

15:50

know , I've been arguing for a long time

15:52

that the IAB shouldn't be doing

15:55

this . It should be a podcast , a

15:57

set of podcasting people . That

15:59

could be the Podcast Standards Project , sam

16:01

Sethi , or it could be somebody

16:04

else oh thanks , just chuck

16:06

more on my plate or it could

16:08

be the Podcast

16:10

Advertising Bureau and

16:14

a set of people that don't exist yet . Right

16:16

, and I would suggest

16:19

that that might be a good plan to

16:21

have a look at something which is more

16:23

, which works at podcast speed , because

16:25

the IAB most certainly does not work at podcast

16:28

speed . So

16:30

I would argue that that would be a good idea

16:32

. One thing that struck me is

16:34

, of course , spotify . The app has

16:37

never been certified under the IAB

16:39

, because apps aren't certified

16:41

under the IAB . The only people who are

16:43

certified are the podcast hosting companies

16:45

, and it occurred

16:47

to me that actually , what we should

16:49

be doing , perhaps , is

16:52

certifying podcast players

16:54

, as well as being , you

16:56

know , good people . They're

16:58

not producing spurious

17:01

downloads . You know spurious

17:03

sets of automatic downloads that aren't clearly

17:06

, you know , marked as such , and

17:08

blah , blah , blah , and I wonder whether actually

17:10

that's something that a podcast advertising bureau

17:13

could do , so that you actually end

17:15

up with the entire ecosystem

17:17

having a careful

17:20

eye . You know , put on them both

17:22

certification for podcast downloads

17:25

, but also certification for the apps that are

17:27

actually playing them . What

17:29

do you think ?

17:30

of that now . I think that would be good

17:32

, because I think um are

17:34

we , are we saying that the movement is from

17:37

downloads anyway to a different metric

17:39

that we think is going to be a better measurement , which

17:41

is listen time , in which case , then

17:43

, the apps had better start getting certified , because

17:45

that's where the data's held for listen time .

17:48

Yeah , and I mean , if that's the case , that

17:50

would be interesting . I mean , my

17:53

kind of argument with all of that is that we already

17:55

have listen time from

17:58

the two big companies , from Spotify and from Apple

18:01

. So I'm not sure that we need

18:03

it . But on the other hand , I

18:05

can well see that that would be

18:07

a great place to start doing

18:09

. You know certification

18:11

of an existing thing , but

18:14

we shouldn't forget that you know quite a lot of podcast

18:17

apps out there are put together by folk

18:19

who just quite enjoy it and

18:21

they're not really there to get paid by the

18:23

podcast industry . You

18:26

know they're there to make a little app that works

18:28

for them . So yeah

18:31

, I think it's a hard job , but I think it would be

18:34

really interesting to basically go around

18:36

and you know and do a little

18:38

bit of work on some of these apps and

18:40

actually work out whether some of these apps are actually

18:42

doing the right thing for us .

18:49

Sloppy shoulders there on that one mate .

18:50

Yeah , exactly , I don't know who would do that , but

18:52

yes don't look at me . Run away ? Yes

18:55

, not on this one Right

19:02

.

19:02

I feel like we should be singing happy birthday both to Spotify , because , also , ACAST has turned

19:04

10 . It feels like somewhere in Sweden the winter broke and

19:07

out of that came , in an April

19:09

month , Acast and Spotify

19:11

. Acast is 10

19:13

, which is , you know , a grand old age

19:15

in podcasting terms . They

19:18

IPO'd back in 2021

19:21

. And I guess they're

19:24

most famous for inventing

19:27

is that the right word ? Or pioneering dynamic

19:29

ad insertion . So

19:32

, yes , I think you know Acast

19:34

is doing very well . They've

19:37

paid more than $300 million

19:39

into podcast creators' pockets

19:41

from basically hosting

19:44

, distributing and monetising content

19:46

. They seem to be doing very well , James .

19:49

Yes , I think they're doing , you know

19:51

really well . They're in profit in inverted

19:53

commas for the first time according

19:55

to their quarter 423 financial results

19:58

. At any time now we'll get their quarter

20:00

124 numbers

20:02

, which should be even better . And

20:04

in terms of rankers , of

20:06

course , pod track just released their

20:09

rankers for march , which included a

20:11

cast in there for the first time , and

20:13

they are the number one number one for podcasts

20:16

on a global basis . So

20:18

I think that they're doing you know

20:20

very well in terms of that . What

20:23

I rather liked is that

20:25

their celebrations , which were yesterday

20:28

for being 10

20:30

years old , they got a few

20:32

little video clips

20:34

from some of the people who they

20:36

have on their platform , and

20:38

this is a little clip of Scroobius

20:40

Pip , who is one

20:43

of their podcasters , and

20:46

I just thought it was really interesting what he was saying

20:48

about podcasting no

20:51

longer being quite as corporate

20:54

as it once was .

20:55

Hello , I'm Scroobius Pip , host of the

20:57

Distraction Pieces podcast , and I've been with

20:59

Acast for like over nine years

21:01

, so almost the full decade decade . I think I

21:03

was basically lingering outside their front door when

21:06

they opened it for the first time and

21:08

that links to my highlight of the past decade

21:11

. Really it's been watching that family

21:13

grow and grow like

21:16

egotistically . It's been lovely

21:18

hearing people like Adam Buxton and Blind

21:20

Boy and Richard Herrod , like some of my favourite podcasters

21:23

, thank me on their podcast

21:25

for my help , and all my

21:27

help really was was introducing them to Acast or

21:29

saying yeah , no , I've been with them a while . They're

21:31

good , I really like them

21:33

. I like their outlook on the podcasting industry

21:36

and that's kind of what I looked

21:38

forward to going forward as well . I think there was a period

21:40

where it looked like podcasting might get

21:43

a bit too commercial and kind

21:45

of behind paywalls and so on and so

21:47

forth , and I like that . That seems to

21:49

be falling away again and it feels

21:51

like a community where we can all be excited

21:54

about each other , shouting about the voices

21:56

, the podcast that we're excited to

21:58

shout about , and all yeah

22:01

, share this space and

22:03

this beautiful community . What

22:05

a decade .

22:07

So , you know , really interesting , you can see that full clip

22:09

on the Pod News website . But

22:11

, yeah , many congratulations to

22:14

them . You know , what would be really good , sam

22:16

, is if we could actually have a chat with the CEO

22:18

, and if by magic , james

22:21

, I did have a chat with Ross

22:23

Adams , the CEO of ACAST

22:25

, back in 2021, .

22:27

ACAST did their IPO

22:29

, but it was well-funded before that . But

22:31

you've now just turned the corner , become

22:33

profitable . So talk to me a little bit about your

22:36

profitability .

22:37

Yeah , I mean that's been a big goal for us , I think early

22:40

on . Obviously , venture-backed business focused on

22:42

growth , like a lot of kind of startups

22:44

were , and whilst profitability was always

22:46

the plan , it wasn't necessarily something

22:48

we focused on as early . Then , of course , the

22:50

craziness happened in the macro . Profitability

22:53

became the in-trend thing , believe

22:55

it or not , to build a sustainable business , and

22:57

something that we had always planned , like I said

22:59

. So we pulled that forward and it's been a core

23:01

focus for us , and so it was

23:03

great last quarter to hit profitability

23:06

, to really prove that model . I mean , we've proven it many

23:08

times before . In individual markets

23:10

, we made UK profitable and

23:13

the likes of Sweden profitable on its own , but

23:15

actually , because we're expanding in lots of markets , that

23:17

takes a lot of investment and therefore

23:19

, as a whole , it's something that we have to

23:21

do and that's our aim this year . To be profitable as a whole is something that we

23:23

have to do and that's our aim this year to be profitable as a whole .

23:26

So , talking about investments , we interviewed

23:28

Greg Glenday about his role

23:30

within the US and , looking at some

23:32

numbers that we saw . The US is now one of your

23:35

biggest markets , but you're also growing

23:37

in other markets as well . So where are you

23:39

these days ?

23:41

I think it's 15 markets We've actually got people

23:43

on the ground , but we exist in 200

23:45

and whatever markets there are , we can monetize

23:48

that through multiple different

23:50

ways , programmatically , and we see

23:52

demand from international advertisers all

23:54

over the place , but a core focus for

23:56

us , if you look at our larger markets , it's US

23:58

, it's UK , it's Sweden , australia

24:01

, france , germany , australia

24:03

, France , germany . More recently , we've been

24:05

launching in the likes of Spain . We've

24:12

launched in Italy and we've launched in the Netherlands and then , as well as Singapore

24:14

, we've now got someone on the ground there as well . So you know , starting to look at our feet

24:16

on the ground over in Asia .

24:18

Yeah , you have a true crime show called

24:20

One Minute Remaining , which is now for

24:22

Spanish speakers . You've partnered with

24:24

Wondercraft . Is this something

24:27

that you're going to be doing more and more , moving into

24:29

foreign language podcasting ?

24:32

Yeah , I mean , innovation for us is at the

24:34

core of what we do , and I think this

24:36

is a great example of innovation that we need

24:38

to try out and see what demand

24:40

we get from that . We see demand from a commercial

24:43

side for Spanish speaking content . We do do have a lot

24:45

of Spanish-speaking content . We have feet on the ground

24:47

in Mexico , and so for

24:49

us this is a great way of growing

24:52

the show's audience in another language and introducing

24:54

new listeners to new content

24:57

by translation . So we're trialing that

24:59

out and seeing how that works and we'll be reporting

25:02

back in the coming months .

25:03

So for those who don't know acast

25:06

, you know at one point you did have an app , but

25:08

fundamentally you're a host , distribution and monetization

25:11

platform . I think it's fair

25:13

to say you pioneered dynamic ad

25:15

insertion . Is that the core technology

25:18

that's driven acast to the profitability

25:20

that we see today ?

25:22

yeah , definitely . I mean we when we first looked at the

25:24

space and I met with the founders

25:26

and they talked about what they want

25:28

to do within the space . Inherently , podcasting

25:31

was still a 10-year-old medium then , but

25:33

it was very analog . There were no digital

25:36

metrics applied to it and no one was really

25:38

commercializing I think America was

25:40

in a baked-in fashion , but that

25:42

hadn't scaled to the major

25:44

brands that are spending in the space . So

25:47

, for us , we wanted to digitize this industry

25:49

and if we're going to start to pitch for digital

25:51

ad budgets , we need to professionalize

25:54

, and so dynamic ad insertion was born . Now , dynamically

25:56

inserting ads into digital content isn't

25:59

new at all , but doing it with an RSS

26:01

and with an audio was brand new

26:03

. So we had to build all of this technology from scratch

26:05

. That's why a country like Sweden , who has

26:07

the top engineers in the world , managed

26:10

to create that , and that is kind of what's

26:12

driven our success and the kind of base

26:14

from everything that we've built off from

26:16

here on in .

26:18

Yeah , I read a report back in 2014

26:22

when you launched Dynamic Ad Insertion . You

26:24

said since then , you've paid more than $300

26:26

million directly into the pockets of creators

26:29

worldwide , which is great . That's

26:31

a lot of chunk of change going back

26:33

to real creators , right ?

26:35

Yeah , definitely . That is one of my definite

26:38

highlights of the last 10 years . I think that's why

26:40

we have built this company with

26:42

creators in mind and being fair

26:44

in how we remunerate . So

26:47

$300 million is incredible , so I'm very

26:49

proud of the team for that . And iMacad

26:51

insertion has enabled brands

26:53

to access audiences within

26:56

podcasting , and I think that's a testament

26:58

to the revenue we start to drive .

27:01

I think another milestone was recent . Podtrack

27:03

released its rankers for March and for

27:05

the first time , ACAST was the number one

27:07

publisher globally with 405

27:09

million downloads . That must have been a good day as well .

27:12

Yeah , it's great . I mean , we've always had a huge

27:14

reach and we're a bit unknown

27:17

, especially over in the States , and I think finally

27:19

getting onto that chart and having our

27:21

reach and scale there highlights exactly

27:24

what we've done these past 10 years

27:26

. And I think I'm even more proud of how

27:28

we've done it . And if you think about the competitive

27:30

set that we've gone against and the investment that others

27:32

have put into the space , to still be

27:34

number one and to still be as big as we are and continue

27:37

to grow is no mean feat . So

27:39

, yeah , very proud of the team on that .

27:41

Back here in the UK in Q423

27:43

as well . Another nice milestone Edison Research

27:45

said that ACAST hosts

27:47

the most shows in its UK list

27:50

. The other player that dominated

27:52

that list , though , was Megaphone . Is

27:54

Megaphone your biggest competitor

27:56

, would you say I ?

27:58

think we've got multiple competitors in multiple markets

28:00

. I think Megaphone had done a very good job of

28:02

becoming an enterprise

28:05

tool . So the likes of ESPN

28:07

, even the likes of iHeart , use it , or used

28:09

to use it , as their hosting platform when

28:11

they'd pay a SaaS fee and monetize it themselves

28:13

. So it was a different approach . It wasn't

28:16

necessarily . Their main core business was about

28:18

SaaS . Now it's obviously flipped

28:20

. Now it's into Spotify's hands and their

28:22

focus is on that Spotify audience network

28:24

and building that out . So they

28:26

are one of the competitors we compete with over

28:29

here , and then in Europe you have different

28:31

local competitors as well that we compete with . So

28:33

we have a list of competitors is what I'm trying

28:35

to say . So okay .

28:37

One of the other big announcements you made back in

28:39

2022 was your partnership with

28:41

Amazon . I thought that was a really good one

28:44

. They bought all the advertising space for

28:46

thousands of ACARs podcasts so that people could have

28:48

ad-free shows . Is that an

28:50

ongoing deal or is that now lapsed

28:52

?

28:53

No , that's an ongoing deal . It works well

28:55

for Amazon . I think their approach here was

28:57

they were relatively late to the podcast

29:00

game in terms of a podcast listening

29:02

app and for them they wanted to see

29:04

how they could grow as quick as they

29:06

could , and this is one of the tactics they've used

29:08

. So they seem to be very happy about it

29:10

and , yeah , this is an ongoing partnership .

29:13

So , coming up to date now , you've just

29:16

won some Webby Awards . The highlight must

29:18

be Michelle Obama the Light Podcast

29:20

, which won the best series Again

29:23

. How did that deal come about , and is

29:25

this the way that you're going

29:27

having these big celebrity type

29:29

podcasts , or is it going to be spread across

29:32

the board high to low ?

29:34

Yeah , I think it's definitely going to be spread across the board

29:36

. We have over a hundred thousand podcasts

29:38

, thousands joining us every single month

29:40

, so we have a long tail of

29:42

podcasts . But beyond those , podcasts

29:44

are , of course , an audience which advertisers want to

29:46

reach , and an audience shouldn't be

29:48

more valuable in a celebrity

29:50

show versus a long tail show . And it's how you

29:52

build the technologies to make sure you are

29:55

able to access them and identify the audiences

29:57

. I think partnerships will do with the likes

29:59

of celebrities . I think if you look at the higher

30:01

ground partnership , that's one again that I'm very proud

30:04

of , a highlight of

30:06

the last 10 years . It's not necessarily

30:08

a core focus for us to be just celebrity

30:10

podcasts , but you always have

30:12

to have a certain level of podcasts

30:14

that kind of attract that revenue and then you can start

30:16

to look at how you can spread that through the audiences

30:18

, through the long tail as well . So it's almost like

30:21

you use these podcasts as a way to

30:23

highlight a large audience by

30:25

. Brands want to also associate

30:27

with certain celebrities too , and this is an easy

30:29

way to do it with a mass audience . High

30:31

Grounds producing some fantastic content

30:33

. Winning a Webby Award is testament to that

30:35

. So , yeah , that was a great

30:37

partnership that we formed a couple of years

30:40

ago .

30:41

Talking of partnerships , you've just signed up Exhibit

30:43

A , which is Abbey Clancy . That's

30:46

going to be a new network with her husband

30:48

, Peter Crouch , called Marvelous Media . The

30:51

ACAST will be monetising both audio

30:53

and video . Can you give me any

30:55

more details on that ?

30:57

Yeah , so I think that's again a fantastic

30:59

deal . We've had a relationship with Crouchy

31:01

for a long time now with his football show

31:03

and we've monetized that incredibly

31:05

well and I think , highlighting what we can do there

31:08

and the therapy

31:10

Crouch show they have , we've monetized very well

31:12

. So it's a natural partnership that has been formed

31:14

for them . Podcasting works

31:17

incredibly well with their lifestyle

31:19

. They can record it from their studio in their

31:21

house . It really fits around their

31:23

family . First approach and

31:26

, yeah , we've got a fantastic relationship . But I think the idea

31:29

there is podcasting now

31:31

, as you know , is beyond just audio

31:33

and beyond just RSS . We've

31:35

been monetizing the likes of video in multiple

31:38

different ways for a long time now . I

31:41

think Peter Cratch is a great example . We

31:43

did a partnership with BrewDog , the

31:46

brewery , and there's a lot of content

31:48

that's put out across YouTube , across TikTok

31:50

, across lots of different video platforms

31:53

as well as , obviously , audio . And as a

31:55

brand , it wants to involve itself in reaching

31:57

his audience wherever they are . So

32:00

how do we approach branded content

32:02

to try and reach those audiences

32:04

and monetize as much content and

32:07

as many audiences as we can ? So multimedia

32:09

is definitely a focus for us in the future .

32:11

That's cool . I mean two questions around

32:13

video . One is there was an email from

32:16

ACAST's support team that said ACAST

32:18

is blocking YouTube from ingesting ACAST

32:20

podcasts . That's mainly because YouTube don't

32:23

do pass-through visiting

32:26

Acast podcast . That's mainly because YouTube don't do pass-through . So has that been resolved

32:28

with Acast and YouTube , or is that still an ongoing issue ?

32:30

I mean , as you know , for us we are big proponents

32:32

of the open ecosystem and RSS

32:34

and YouTube have decided

32:37

not to support RSS and

32:39

that's how our entire business model works . Also

32:42

, the way they remunerate creators

32:44

and you have to be a certain size to be remunerated

32:47

and they also want clean content , clear

32:49

of ads , and if you are converting

32:51

an MP3 with ads

32:53

that are dynamically inserted and then you re-record

32:56

that , you're going to have ads stitched in , so we

32:58

would be against their terms of service . So

33:00

that's why we stopped that and

33:03

we're working with YouTube to try and help

33:05

encourage them to see the values of RSS

33:07

.

33:07

One of your other Ulm and I just recently started their

33:26

own new agency called Flight Studio

33:28

, with Stephen Bartlett , that's Georgie Holt

33:30

and CB , and their

33:32

focus is video first . Given that

33:34

you're now monetizing video , can we expect

33:36

to see a deal between the two of you ?

33:40

I mean I think this again highlights you look

33:42

at what Oscar's doing and you look at what Georgie

33:44

and CB are doing . We obviously wish them the

33:46

best of luck in their endeavors and it highlights

33:48

the kind of talent that we produce

33:50

through ACAST . So I'm kind of proud

33:52

of what they're up to and naturally , partnerships

33:55

will be formed . We're working with Oscar

33:57

but , yeah , I can't really comment

34:00

on Georgie and CB , but I think that they're going to do some

34:02

great things in the space and we really value

34:04

what they're up to .

34:05

Cool . So what are you going to do

34:07

now to celebrate 10 years ? What is ACOS

34:09

going to do ?

34:10

We're doing multiple things in multiple markets . Actually

34:12

, we've got a whole kind of day takeover and most

34:15

of our markets are doing kind of individual

34:17

celebrations and then we're doing a big

34:19

all hands to celebrate

34:21

10 years , with some surprises in there as

34:23

well . We've created a lot of merch and unique

34:26

merch for everyone and I can't

34:28

reveal too many surprises , but there's a lot going on in the company

34:30

. But it's all about celebrating the past 10

34:32

years and thanking everyone for their input

34:34

into our success .

34:37

What comes next ? What's the next 10 years

34:39

? Look like Ross .

34:41

That's a good question . I think for us we've had

34:43

a core focus on

34:45

profitability . That is a key

34:47

thing , that's in the near future and that's something

34:49

that we are focused on , as we mentioned earlier in the show . But

34:52

I think a big core focus for us is the US

34:54

. I'm now living over here and

34:56

this is something we really need to focus

34:58

on and have been focusing on . It is

35:01

the opportunity the biggest podcast

35:03

market in the world right now and we need

35:05

to be number one . We're number one globally . We're

35:07

probably in terms of audience . On PodTrack

35:09

chart , we're number two , but there's a

35:11

couple of people who omitted from that chart as well . But

35:14

for us we need to be number one . And then I think we need

35:16

to be making sure that the media agencies

35:18

who are starting to spend in the space

35:20

treat us as that number one player

35:23

. Our

35:26

competitive set have the likes of music streaming radio , satellite radio that

35:28

they can bolt on with podcasting . So

35:30

a larger reach , opportunity . But growing that reach

35:32

and scale for us is inherently a core

35:35

focus to become that number one

35:37

player . So , yeah , that's a big focus

35:39

and I think in 10 years time I want to make sure

35:41

that we maintain the culture of the company . That has always

35:43

been my number one priority . I talk quite publicly

35:45

about that , and we've got a fantastic culture and an

35:48

amazing bunch of people . But expansion

35:50

is probably on the cards at some stage

35:53

as well . But I think for me it's more seeing

35:55

the next three years than the next 10 , but either

35:57

way , it's going to be a successful 10 years , so I'm looking

35:59

forward to that .

36:00

Just on that , the ACAST

36:02

founders the original founders have got

36:05

a new company called Sesame . Sesame

36:07

seems to be doing amazingly well . It's a really

36:10

interesting mobile

36:12

peer-to-peer payment system . That's

36:14

certainly big in Sweden and the Nordics

36:17

and I believe now , through a raise

36:19

they've done , coming to the UK . It's

36:21

a pay-per-podcast model . It's

36:24

a different model to advertising

36:26

or subscription . Is that something

36:28

maybe in the next 10 years that you guys might look

36:30

at ?

36:31

Yeah , I mean for us we've got Acast Access

36:34

and Acast Plus , so we have kind of technologies

36:36

that do slightly similar things to

36:38

that . Our focus is really on the advertising

36:40

side and how we match advertisers

36:43

with creators' audiences and how we grow a creator's

36:45

audience , so that's not necessarily a focus

36:47

for us . But yeah , they're doing great things

36:50

over there . So again , wish them well them

36:57

well .

36:57

The other last question in this area we're beginning to see RSS broaden from just

36:59

being a podcast delivery mechanism to doing music . You talked about video

37:02

. There's certainly audio books . Would

37:04

ACAST expand beyond

37:06

just doing podcasting ?

37:10

It's a good question . I mean for us , we need

37:12

to become number one in podcasting

37:15

. We are number one in most markets , america we're

37:17

not , and we need to . So for us that

37:19

is the core focus and I think until we do that

37:21

we can't really consider other mediums

37:23

that will be brought into the space . But you know

37:25

, it's interesting what other competitors are doing around

37:28

audiobooks as well as music

37:30

. But music also on that side , is

37:32

very messy in terms of licensing . So

37:34

I think we're going to stay in our podcast lane . It's

37:37

a lot nicer space .

37:38

Probably wise . Now . We're

37:41

going to see you at the London podcast

37:43

show . You've got a big presence there . We've

37:46

got the Acast Arms . That's the 22nd

37:49

and 23rd of May . What will you

37:51

be doing there yourself ?

37:53

I'll be doing lots of things . I've

37:56

got a keynote with Dan Fireman at Higher Ground , so that's . I believe that's on the Thursday

37:58

. Like you said , we've got the eight cast arms there

38:01

. We have multiple keynotes going on . I'm also

38:03

featuring on a few podcasts while I'm there

38:05

live from the show as well . I love the

38:07

podcast show . It's such a brilliant event

38:09

, a two day event , so we'll

38:11

be everywhere . We're pretty much involved in everything

38:14

there . So , yeah , looking forward to it .

38:16

All I've got to say is 10 years seems so

38:18

flown by , but in that time , look , you've got

38:20

profitability , you've got global growth . Everything's

38:23

going upward . Congratulations to you , Thank

38:25

you . Thanks very much , Sam .

38:28

Ross Adams , the CEO

38:30

of Acast ? Was he wearing a hat

38:32

when you interviewed him , Sam ?

38:34

He always wears a hat . Yes , yes , very

38:37

good , but we will see

38:39

him at the London podcast show . They've got the

38:41

Acast Arms . Looking forward to having a little

38:43

pint there at the Acast Arms . I

38:45

don't know who's playing the role of Barbara Windsor

38:48

from EastEnders , but we'll see LP

38:52

. Lp could do that . I

38:58

was thinking I'm not going to say LP , say I'm not gonna say LP . And then you went there . I had

39:00

to go there , yes , yes . Um

39:02

, for the Americans who won't understand

39:04

it , it was a soap opera . And uh

39:07

, yes , you have to look it up .

39:08

It is a soap opera . You have to leave it out .

39:11

Leave it out all right , james

39:13

, let's move on a little bit . Podcast guesting

39:15

is a very effective way of promoting your

39:17

shows and of getting your name out there

39:19

.

39:20

Yeah , that's right . I mean it is . It's a

39:22

great way of getting your name out there . It's a great way

39:24

of doing that , and I think what was interesting

39:26

at Podcast Movement

39:28

Evolutions is that

39:31

quite a lot of people were saying

39:33

you

39:35

know , podcast guesting it's really good , but it's also

39:37

an awful lot of hard

39:40

work as well . So

39:42

I thought I'd catch up with Shark

39:44

Party Media , which

39:46

is a company that does podcast

39:48

guesting , and I reckoned it would

39:50

be a good idea to talk with the

39:53

founder , Catherine Muslick

39:55

, about podcast guesting and how

39:57

to do it well , and I started by

39:59

asking what Shark Party Media

40:01

is .

40:02

Shark Party Media is a PR

40:04

firm based out of Brooklyn , new York , that I

40:06

founded in 2007 . We

40:09

started working with comedians in 2012

40:11

, which is how we found the

40:14

podcast world , sort of orient around

40:16

us .

40:17

Right . Why the name Shark Party

40:19

Media ?

40:19

Well , because you have to sink or

40:21

swim . That's kind of the deal , and

40:24

you may as well have fun while doing

40:26

it .

40:27

Yes , and not jump , I

40:30

would guess not jump the shark , that's right

40:32

. That's a very different thing . You

40:35

have been saying for a while

40:37

now that the best way to grow a

40:39

podcast's audience is through guesting

40:42

on other shows . Is

40:45

that a common view , do you think , in the industry ?

40:47

It is a common view in the industry

40:49

. Every

40:52

marketing exec that I speak to

40:54

sort of has a sense that they understand

40:56

that to be the truth and

40:58

that they see it with their own numbers

41:01

. When one of their hosts guests on

41:03

another podcast , usually of similar

41:06

size and comparable

41:08

listenership , they'll see spikes

41:10

in their own show's listenership

41:13

and an actual growth . So

41:15

yeah , so yeah , it is . It is

41:17

kind of a known thing and when I was , I

41:19

was just at the evolutions , the

41:21

podcast movement evolutions , and

41:24

I met a number of podcast

41:26

marketers and podcasters

41:29

and they would ask what I do and

41:31

I would say I'm in podcast guesting

41:33

, which is what brings me to the conference

41:36

, and

41:40

I'd say , you know , it's the best way to grow an audience . And they would just be like , yeah , it is like

41:42

, they just are , they all kind of like

41:44

it is , but like . They'd kind of like throw

41:46

up their arms a little and shrug

41:48

and be like , if only it were possible to do that

41:50

kind of work . You know , that

41:53

is the work that I do .

41:55

So what's , what's the problem with

41:57

that work ? I mean , what sort of thing does

41:59

Shark Party Media do for me that I couldn't

42:01

do for myself ?

42:03

Well , because we've been in

42:06

the podcast space with

42:08

our clientele , offering

42:10

our clients to podcasts

42:13

and working with podcasters for

42:15

so long , we have

42:17

a really hearty , really trustworthy

42:20

database . So basically

42:22

we have all of the contacts and we

42:24

have a lot of relationships and it's

42:26

also podcast . Guesting is in

42:29

the PR space . I think sometimes

42:31

there's sort of a confusion about where it goes

42:33

. Like , is this marketing ? Is this promotion

42:35

? I

42:41

fully , I'm kind of a dinosaur PR that still believes in journalism and all of that

42:43

. So I also believe that podcasting is squarely in the journalistic

42:45

space , for the most part the media

42:48

space , and that PR

42:50

is the best way to approach

42:53

guesting , meaning that

42:55

it's about relationships . It's about , you

42:57

know , deeper relationships

42:59

. It's about really treating people like humans

43:01

. It's not about , you

43:04

know , I'll get erroneous pitches

43:07

for podcast guests

43:09

. Like people will be offering guests

43:11

to me for one of my clients and

43:14

sometimes there'll be sort of mentions

43:16

of you know , we think

43:18

it'd be really beneficial to my client to be on

43:20

your show or you know , like all these kind

43:22

of things that are like that are

43:24

just like um , that's not really the idea

43:27

. Like our true drive in

43:29

PR and in podcast

43:31

guesting is to offer guests

43:33

that will help the show we're offering , so that the show that we're offering , so

43:36

that the show that we're offering to understands

43:38

that we're on their side as well and we're helping

43:41

everyone .

43:41

Basically how do you

43:43

find shows for your

43:45

clients to guest on ?

43:47

a lot of it is , um

43:49

, you know , we , we really , we

43:52

really keep our eye on podcast

43:55

newsletters . We keep our eye

43:57

on . We

43:59

have a few sort of database

44:02

subscriptions that we can look

44:04

to for ideas , but

44:07

we're always listening to new shows . We're

44:09

always just kind of searching

44:12

the web and making

44:14

sure , whenever we bring on a new podcast

44:17

client for guesting , that

44:20

we understand everything that they

44:22

are interested in talking about . We

44:24

do a really extensive questionnaire

44:26

process so we understand , you

44:29

know , maybe their show is about , you know

44:31

, culinary oddities

44:33

, but maybe they also skydive

44:36

. Who knows

44:38

? Who knows what they want to talk about ? What's

44:40

the story to actually tell yeah

44:42

exactly so most

44:44

of it is just being consumers of podcasts

44:47

. We find podcasts , but the other bit of

44:49

it is that we just have a massive podcast

44:51

database full

44:54

of all the producers and hosts

44:56

and friends and so we

44:58

kind of start there . We just start with people

45:00

we know .

45:01

And you say you pay

45:04

for a couple of databases . Are those databases

45:06

tools like Podchaser

45:08

or Rephonic , those sorts of

45:10

tools ?

45:11

Yes , exactly yes .

45:13

Yeah , yeah .

45:14

And those are not the best by way

45:16

of the actual contacts that they provide

45:18

, but they're nice for exploration

45:20

and discovery .

45:22

Yeah , yeah . Is there anything that the

45:24

industry could do to help you

45:26

find shows for your guests

45:28

?

45:30

I'm actually really keen on your trailer

45:33

feed that you just I don't know if you

45:35

just started that or if I just discovered it , but didn't

45:37

you just start a feed that's like podcast

45:40

trailers ?

45:40

Yeah , yeah .

45:42

I think that's so fun .

45:44

I normally say yes to every

45:47

show that I have time to

45:49

be on , but are there shows that you

45:51

would recommend that I didn't go on ?

45:53

Oh boy , uh , yes

45:57

, I mean this is a

45:59

little bit client by client

46:01

and it really depends

46:03

on um the personality

46:06

of you

46:08

and your show and your listenership

46:11

. There are there

46:13

are sort of political areas

46:15

that can be minefields

46:19

or not a fit . I did

46:22

have one person I had a client

46:24

once who wanted to go onto a really incendiary

46:26

show because she wanted to

46:28

kind of show them and sort

46:31

of argue . Oh

46:34

, yes , argue and um and yeah , and I , I really

46:36

uh , discouraged it , but she insisted

46:39

and went and it

46:41

actually ended up being um a situation

46:44

where she was trolled by

46:46

the bad guys for like a really

46:48

long time . So I really

46:50

suggest , I highly suggest

46:53

, going where it's warm and

46:55

where the audience is already

46:58

an intuitive fit for you

47:00

or your product or your message

47:02

.

47:02

Yeah , going where it's warm .

47:04

That's a great phrase .

47:06

Is there a way to measure ROI on

47:08

being a podcast guest

47:10

.

47:10

Not exactly . No , I mean , as

47:13

you might know , the numbers on podcasts

47:15

can be very tricky to pin

47:17

down due to all

47:19

of the different platforms that everyone

47:21

is checking out . Also

47:23

, there isn't usually , you know

47:25

, you can't really do . I mean , in

47:28

my industry we don't do affiliate links or

47:30

anything like that anyway way

47:40

. And so again , like PR , it's a little bit ethereal . You can see spikes in listenership

47:43

on your own show . That's sort of the most direct sort

47:45

of response or return . But by

47:47

way of just like monetizing ROI

47:50

, like that , I haven't

47:53

seen it done .

47:55

So two other questions

47:57

. Firstly , how do I be a

47:59

better podcast guest ? Are

48:01

there tips and tricks that you would recommend

48:04

that I follow ?

48:06

Yes , I would recommend that you listen to

48:09

one to three episodes

48:11

of the show you're guesting on , if you're not already

48:13

really familiar episodes of the show you're guesting on . If you're not

48:15

already really familiar , Um , and that you

48:18

know your podcast guesting expert who's

48:20

hooking you up with the uh guesting

48:22

op . That

48:26

they just make sure to give you all of the information about what's going to happen on the

48:28

interview , if there's any sort of prep involved

48:31

, Um , and

48:34

I guess that's that's

48:37

the main tip is just to

48:39

be really familiar , be really nice

48:41

, you know , be relaxed

48:43

and be yourself and

48:46

try not to say

48:48

like and um very often , which

48:50

I'm sure I already have a million times with you

48:52

, you can take it out of the print

48:54

version , that's fine .

48:57

I can take it out of the audio version as well

49:00

the magic of audio editing

49:02

. Love it , and

49:12

I suppose I mean so some of the companies that I have worked with in the past

49:14

the CEO or whoever it is that puts themselves up for interview . I've had real

49:16

success in actually getting them a little

49:18

bit of media training . I've actually sitting

49:21

down with a proper journalist and

49:23

that journalist explains how

49:25

to get a point over and

49:28

how to really land the

49:30

point that you want to make , and I think

49:32

quite a lot of this is not necessarily answering

49:34

the questions that you've been asked , but

49:37

using the questions that you've been asked

49:39

to actually say what you wanted

49:41

to say . Anyway , do you

49:43

do that sort of training , or are

49:46

there companies that you recommend to do

49:48

that sort of media training , or is that not really

49:50

a thing for this area ?

49:53

Well , a lot of the podcasters that

49:55

we're working with are more in the entertainment

49:57

space , so a lot of what

49:59

we're doing is sort of a

50:02

lot of what we're doing is placing

50:05

entertainers on other entertaining

50:07

shows . So many times

50:10

we aren't . We

50:12

don't need to media train them

50:14

into hitting points

50:17

home . Besides making

50:19

sure that there's some discussion

50:21

of their show , their

50:23

comedy special , like whatever it is that

50:25

we're publicizing , we make

50:27

sure with the host that there's some

50:29

discussion of that uh

50:31

, beforehand . But , um , we

50:34

don't do as much of that . I do a bit bit

50:36

of it . There are times where I have worked

50:38

with um directly , with comedy

50:41

production companies or podcast

50:44

company execs , et cetera , and

50:46

I have helped

50:48

to sort of at least

50:50

get talking points in front of them , but

50:53

it's not usually as strict

50:57

of

50:59

a journalistic media training process

51:02

.

51:03

Yeah , Super fascinating

51:05

. Where do we go to find out more about Shark

51:07

Party Media ?

51:08

You can go to sharkpartymediacom

51:10

and hit us up with any questions . All good , Catherine

51:12

. Thank you so much for any questions .

51:15

All good , Catherine . Thank you so much for your time

51:17

.

51:18

Thank you , it's been fun . From your

51:20

daily newsletter , the Pod News

51:22

Weekly Review .

51:24

Now , james branded podcasts

51:26

. It seems that they're very popular 86%

51:30

of branded podcasts increase a brand's

51:32

affinity with listeners . That sounds

51:34

good . Should we have a branded podcast ? Yes , if we can find out a brand , we'll listeners . That sounds good . Should we have a branded podcast ?

51:37

Yes , if we can find out a brand , who'll pay for it ? But

51:41

yes , you know , branded podcasts also help

51:43

with brand recall . Apparently , there's a 2024

51:46

branded podcasts benchmark

51:48

report released today from the good folks

51:50

at Signal Hill Insights

51:52

, who have done a bunch of data

51:55

about this . A lot

51:57

of it is very brand

51:59

marketing language , so increasing

52:01

a brand's affinity is one of my

52:03

favourites . Trying to explain what

52:05

that actually means is always fun

52:07

, but it's really

52:10

well worth a read

52:12

and there is a lot of money in branded

52:14

podcasts right now , because you've

52:16

had that and I think you have

52:18

been enjoying the Brand

52:20

Podcast Summit , haven't you ?

52:22

Yeah , it's an online virtual event Harry

52:24

Morton from Lower Street organised . I

52:27

went and had a look at it yesterday . You

52:30

had Jonas Wust and Ariel

52:32

Nissenblatt some people

52:35

from the BBC . Yeah , it's

52:37

a lovely , well-organised event

52:39

online . It was over

52:41

two days . So congratulations

52:43

to Harry Morton . Yeah , and it was all about creating

52:45

branded podcasts . So , yeah , I learnt a lot

52:48

, thank you .

52:49

Yeah , live from Harry

52:51

Morton's garden shed , which is where

52:53

his studio is . The

52:55

things that you learn on LinkedIn , I'll tell you .

52:58

With a strategic guitar in the background

53:00

. Nice

53:02

one , harry . Indeed , yes . Now

53:05

moving on , you

53:08

know what this week , james ? I feel like we should have some Stevie Wonder happy birthday

53:11

and maybe some Queen . Another

53:13

one bites the dust . Yes

53:15

, well

53:18

, it looks like Inside Podcasting

53:20

may have bitten the dust . Tell me more .

53:22

Yes , well , it looks like most of Inside , which

53:24

is a company , I think , majorly owned by

53:26

Jason Calacanis , most

53:29

of Inside , which was a set of

53:31

newsletters , has shuttered

53:34

. They've laid

53:36

off a majority of the editorial

53:38

staff at the company , including the writer

53:40

for Inside Podcasting , so

53:43

that hasn't published an issue since March the

53:45

21st . I have DM'd

53:48

Jason Calacanis because he follows me

53:50

and I thought I would abuse that

53:52

, and

53:54

I said is there a chance that I can buy some

53:56

advertising on your old Inside podcasting

53:58

feed ? Funnily enough

54:00

, he has not

54:02

responded . But

54:04

you would have thought . You would have thought if

54:06

you've closed it down , you'd have thought well , that's a

54:09

quick way of making a bob or two , he

54:12

doesn't need to make a bob or two ?

54:13

No , he's okay .

54:14

Well , I mean , clearly Insidecom

54:17

does . So you've got that . But also

54:19

we talked about the Hot Pod hiatus

54:22

, which seems to be

54:24

a bit longer than we thought

54:26

because all of the subscribers to Hot

54:28

Pod have had their paid subscriptions refunded

54:31

. Vox Media won't

54:33

let me advertise on the Hot

54:35

pod list . Can't think why that might be

54:37

. We of course had Pod

54:40

Pod , which closed last

54:42

year . Sky Pillsbury's the Squeeze

54:44

is not quite

54:46

on hiatus but it's on very

54:48

. You know , it's only

54:51

coming out every so often

54:53

because Sky has other things in

54:55

her life as well . So

54:58

actually , you know , I mean you say another one bites the

55:00

dust . I was thinking of

55:02

that song

55:04

from Team America of

55:08

. You know we're so lonely

55:11

. It does appear that for us

55:14

, for

55:17

a daily newsletter about

55:19

podcasting , such as the

55:22

Pod News newsletter is , it does

55:24

appear that we're kind of all of a sudden being

55:27

the only ones . It's a

55:29

little bit scary .

55:30

I don't think that's bad news , James .

55:32

Where am I going to get my news from now ? Oh

55:35

right , sorry , yes , ai .

55:36

Ask AI

55:38

. Ask the AI again yes

55:40

, so there is that .

55:41

I mean there's obviously Podbible

55:43

, which is a UK printed

55:46

magazine , which is very good . There's a printed magazine

55:49

in France called Podcast

55:51

Magazine magazine

55:59

. That weird podcast magazine in the US is up and running again and

56:01

will be producing issues from June time or something like

56:03

that . So I understand . So there

56:06

are , of course , you

56:08

know , other places . There's also the Noisegate

56:11

, which is more creator

56:13

focused , made by the

56:15

good folks at Podcast Movement . So there's

56:17

a bunch of these newsletters

56:21

, but you know , in terms of general

56:23

podcast newsletters , I'm

56:26

a little bit worried

56:28

that you know you can see all of these

56:30

people running out and I'm there going

56:32

. Why are you all leaving

56:34

the industry that I'm in ? Is there something

56:36

you know that I don't ? They ?

56:38

just can't compete with you , james , that's what it ? Is

56:40

Well , maybe God is

56:42

he still doing it .

56:44

Well , maybe that's it . I do know a

56:47

number of good writers about

56:49

podcasting that I

56:51

can't pay for , and I would love to

56:53

, so if there

56:55

are people out there who are thinking about

56:57

producing a

56:59

competitor , then

57:02

, firstly , please don't

57:04

. But secondly , if you are going to , I know some good

57:06

, good writers who I could actually help

57:08

you with .

57:10

Righty . Well , let's

57:13

make sure that you stick around for a bit

57:15

longer . Anyway , that's the main thing .

57:16

Now , yeah , that would be kind of handy . Shall

57:19

we go around the world ? Well , let's do .

57:22

Wondery has launched Wondery Plus . I thought they had

57:24

Wondery Plus ages ago

57:26

. Am I losing my mind ? They do .

57:28

They've had Wondery Plus for a long , long time

57:30

, but they can't spell the word colour or

57:32

indeed the word monetise , because Wondery

57:35

Plus was an American thing . They've now produced

57:37

a UK , curated version

57:39

of that for

57:41

UK podcast listeners . Wondery produces an

57:44

awful lot of UK content actually , and

57:47

so , yes , and so you'll get a localised

57:49

spelt with I-S-E-D at the

57:51

end localised and curated

57:53

experience for UK audiences

57:56

, which is very neat . They are doing

57:59

a big thing at the podcast

58:01

show in London next month Adelicious

58:04

, who sells advertising

58:07

in the UK on podcasting . Their

58:11

CEO , andrew Goldsmith , has pointed

58:13

out that UK elections

58:15

are bad things for podcast

58:18

advertising and indeed all forms of advertising

58:20

, because of the very tight

58:22

election law that exists

58:24

in the UK . Essentially

58:27

, there's an awful lot of advertising from

58:29

UK government for

58:31

things like you know , don't walk across the road without

58:34

checking either side

58:36

, charlie says , and

58:39

you know , and don't forget to take

58:41

your flu jab , and all this kind of stuff , and

58:44

all of that is illegal

58:46

as soon as a election is called

58:48

. So

58:50

we may be in a position

58:52

where for two or three months

58:55

, one of the largest advertisers

58:57

in UK media is unable

58:59

to advertise , and I know that

59:01

in previous elections that's really

59:04

harmed commercial radio . I think this will

59:06

be the first election where it will

59:08

really harm UK

59:10

podcasting as well . So just worthwhile

59:12

keeping that in mind , and clearly Ross Adams will have to keep that in mind as well . So just worthwhile

59:14

keeping that in mind , and clearly Ross Adams will have to keep

59:17

that in mind as well . Around

59:20

the rules , they're called the Perda

59:22

rules , which is all very

59:24

fascinating . So anyway , that's all

59:26

going on . And still in the UK , audio

59:28

Lab has been launched by AdWanted

59:31

UK . Adwanted UK

59:33

produces a thing called Jet , which is how you

59:35

buy commercial radio in the

59:37

UK , and they're now producing

59:39

this thing , which is a cross-platform audio

59:42

measurement solution , which

59:44

is all very exciting .

59:45

Yeah , I wanted to ask you from that . There was

59:47

two things I read in that report that made

59:50

no sense . One was called the listener

59:52

through rate LTR . What

59:54

is that ?

59:55

Well , I'm glad you asked , Sam . I'll tell you what

59:57

listen through rate is

59:59

. It's the ratio between

1:00:01

the number of ads listened through

1:00:04

to the end to the

1:00:06

total number of impressions recorded

1:00:08

for a campaign . So it's basically how many

1:00:10

people are skipping ads ? Okay , that's

1:00:13

what that is . Yes , skipping

1:00:16

ads . Okay , um , that's what that is

1:00:18

. Uh , yes , so 90 percent of um , um , 90 percent of podcast

1:00:20

ads apparently are not skips , which I know

1:00:23

that you won't agree with , because I've

1:00:25

seen you on linkedin , um

1:00:27

saying that we all skip ads , but

1:00:29

in fact , 90 percent of that .

1:00:31

I just say when you ask people

1:00:33

rather than you have a company

1:00:35

whose job it is to sell advertising

1:00:37

.

1:00:38

Yes , so that was

1:00:40

LTR . What was the other one that you were asking ?

1:00:42

about Vast , vast technology . I mean , I keep hearing

1:00:44

about it and everyone talking about it , but I haven't

1:00:46

really looked it up . What is Vast ?

1:00:48

Right . Vast is , you

1:00:51

know , iframes on websites . Yes , you know

1:00:53

iframes on websites . So , yeah , so you put

1:00:55

a little bit of code in your website and

1:00:57

that pulls a bit of

1:00:59

code , a bit of a page , from

1:01:01

another website . Vast

1:01:03

is essentially that , but for video

1:01:06

and indeed audio . So

1:01:08

vast is a little tag that you

1:01:10

put when you are making a

1:01:12

podcast and

1:01:18

that tag goes off and says hey , I've got a commercial here , can

1:01:21

you give me some audio for a commercial ? And the system then fills

1:01:23

that with a commercial for that particular user

1:01:26

. So that's what a VAST tag

1:01:28

is . It's very , you know . It's

1:01:30

used in quite a few places by

1:01:33

companies selling dynamically

1:01:36

, you know , inserted advertising .

1:01:38

Okay , now I'm more informed

1:01:41

.

1:01:41

Yes , so there we are . I'm glad

1:01:43

you asked . Can I just say that the word purdah

1:01:45

is from Hindi .

1:01:48

Its original meaning refers to a curtain or

1:01:50

a veil . No idea how

1:01:53

that relates to how you described

1:01:55

Adelicious there earlier .

1:01:56

Oh well , there you go , yes , perda

1:01:59

. And finally

1:02:01

, looking around the world Moving

1:02:04

on , iheartmedia has launched

1:02:07

the Women's Sports Audio Network

1:02:09

. It calls it the first ever audio platform

1:02:11

dedicated to women's sports . If

1:02:13

that's the case , then many congratulations . That's such

1:02:15

an then many congratulations . That's such an obvious

1:02:18

thing to do and

1:02:20

that makes a ton of sense

1:02:22

. Apparently , this year , elite women's sports

1:02:25

are expected to become a

1:02:27

$1 billion industry . That's

1:02:29

a 300% increase in just

1:02:31

the last three years . I would guess that that's mostly

1:02:34

to do with the Australian football

1:02:37

team , the

1:02:41

Matildas , who are very , very good

1:02:43

. Clearly it's got all to

1:02:45

do with that and nothing to do with anything else .

1:02:47

Okay , well , I think this is

1:02:49

all around the sheet economy , isn't it

1:02:51

?

1:03:08

This is this growing focus around women's sports and women's

1:03:10

content for political

1:03:13

currency , which is Dino Sophos' big

1:03:15

show . Ed Balls and

1:03:17

George Osborne two former

1:03:19

chancellors well , one former chancellor

1:03:21

and one former shadow chancellor and

1:03:25

also in the UK City University of London is looking for a podcaster in residence

1:03:27

. I couldn't necessarily see

1:03:30

very much around salary I don't

1:03:32

think there is one but I think that there is an awful

1:03:34

lot of very useful experience

1:03:37

and knowledge that you'll gain from

1:03:39

being a podcaster in residence

1:03:42

. You get to work in decent studios

1:03:44

and meet decent people and everything else , and

1:03:46

the university is also offering scholarships and

1:03:48

bursaries to UK-based students

1:03:50

. Spotify and Goldhanger are paying

1:03:53

for those as well . More details

1:03:55

again in the Pod News

1:03:57

newsletter . And Novel has a new CEO

1:03:59

. Novel is a big podcast producer

1:04:02

in the UK and the US . The

1:04:04

new CEO is Craig Strachan , who

1:04:07

used to be the boss of podcasts

1:04:09

at Amazon Music . He was global

1:04:11

head of podcast industry complex

1:04:14

, so he's

1:04:17

done very well there and now being the

1:04:19

new CEO of Novel , so

1:04:22

well done to him . I have a feeling that I worked

1:04:25

with Craig Strachan once . I

1:04:27

thought it was either at the BBC or at Virgin

1:04:30

Radio , but his LinkedIn doesn't

1:04:32

mention the BBC or Virgin Radio

1:04:34

once , so maybe I didn't

1:04:36

, but anyway , there we are . Podcast events

1:04:38

on the Pod News Weekly

1:04:40

Review . What is coming

1:04:42

up with events ? Well , the Webby Awards have

1:04:46

just announced all of their

1:04:48

winners . Good news for Lemonada

1:04:51

Media , because Wiser Than Me ended up winning

1:04:53

the Webby Podcast of their winners . Good news for Lemonada Media , because Wiser Than Me ended up winning the Webby podcast

1:04:55

of the year . They will be

1:04:57

doing a fancy awards show

1:05:00

a little bit later on . This year . The Peabody

1:05:02

Awards has also announced some nominees in

1:05:05

terms of their awards . But , of course , the big events

1:05:07

coming up include the podcast

1:05:09

show in London , where

1:05:11

you and I will be , and the pod

1:05:13

news weekly review will be

1:05:16

live on stage . For that , which

1:05:18

should be good , there is somebody

1:05:20

that wants to launch something on

1:05:23

the pod news weekly review , which I'm very

1:05:25

confused by , and he said and

1:05:29

he said I'd love to talk to you about it , but please

1:05:31

sign this NDA to which to you about it . But

1:05:33

please sign this NDA , to which I've replied I

1:05:35

don't sign NDAs , I'm a journalist . We

1:05:38

don't do that , so we won't be

1:05:40

launching that . I don't suppose . But still , there we are

1:05:42

. What else is going on ? Crossed

1:05:45

Wires will be in Sheffield , which is a podcast

1:05:47

festival which

1:05:51

is worthwhile doing a quick Google for , for as is the unipod fest at birmingham city

1:05:53

university . It's all uk , this isn't it .

1:05:56

And uh , berlin podcast other people can

1:05:58

organize events just not really happening

1:06:00

around the world other people can .

1:06:02

Yes , uh , and indeed , of course uh podcast

1:06:04

movement um is happening

1:06:06

in august in washington dc . The

1:06:08

murder capital of uh , the

1:06:10

united states , is it still the murder capital of the united

1:06:12

states I . Is it still the murder capital of the United States ? I'm not sure it

1:06:14

is anymore , god knows , but still anyway

1:06:17

. Yes , and there are more events

1:06:19

, of course , both paid for and free , at

1:06:21

Pod News . If you're organising something

1:06:23

you should tell the world about , it's free to be listed at podnewsnet

1:06:26

slash events . The Tech

1:06:28

Stuff On the Pod News

1:06:31

Weekly Review . Alright

1:06:33

, I've got 15 minutes left , but

1:06:39

here comes the stuff you'll find every Monday in the Pod .

1:06:41

News newsletter . Here's where Sam talks technology

1:06:44

very quickly , very quickly , okay . Strike , the Bitcoin wallet has now

1:06:46

come to Europe , so you can download

1:06:48

it from the iOS app store

1:06:50

if you want . Again

1:06:52

, that's just great .

1:06:53

If you want to use micropayments and fiat currencies and

1:06:56

exchange between the two , yeah , yeah

1:06:58

, and I was having a chat , I

1:07:00

spotted a

1:07:03

recognisable name on a Twitter space

1:07:05

the other day and so I went in and had

1:07:08

a listen and they were talking about Bitcoin

1:07:10

and wouldn't it be really good if we

1:07:12

could work out some way of changing

1:07:15

the music industry using Bitcoin

1:07:17

and the blockchain and everything else ? And

1:07:20

I put my hand up and I said , you know , I'd quite

1:07:22

like to speak , and spoke for

1:07:24

about three minutes about

1:07:27

the Booster Ground Ball and about Value

1:07:29

for Value and Lightning

1:07:31

Payments . And they were so excited and they hadn't heard Payments

1:07:33

. And they were so excited and

1:07:35

they hadn't heard anything about this . And they were there going

1:07:37

oh my God , this is amazing , this is amazing . And

1:07:39

I said you know Adam Curry's

1:07:41

involved . And one person said I

1:07:43

bet you didn't know that Adam Curry was one

1:07:45

of the first podcasters in the world

1:07:48

, to

1:07:50

which my reply was well , yes , because

1:07:52

he invented it , so

1:07:55

that was entertaining . Anyway , yes

1:07:58

, so that was very good . So good

1:08:00

to see Strike coming to Europe

1:08:02

. Google has set a date for Google podcasts

1:08:04

to be switched off mid to late June

1:08:06

2024 is when it's going

1:08:08

to be turned off in all countries outside

1:08:11

of the US . Hooray , good

1:08:13

for us , so that's a

1:08:15

complete thrill . Captivate has added

1:08:18

support for chapters , json

1:08:20

chapters , super chapters , call them what you will

1:08:22

. In its embedded

1:08:24

player as well , spotify

1:08:26

also supports chapters , but

1:08:31

they support Podloves chapters , which is very strange . I'd like to play along a little bit more

1:08:33

with that and see what the

1:08:35

deal is there and see whether actually

1:08:38

there's a really easy way for Spotify to

1:08:40

support JSON chapters as well

1:08:42

, because if they're supporting Podloves chapters

1:08:44

, it should be one

1:08:47

line of code to do

1:08:49

a regex on those and make

1:08:51

them work as well . So , yeah

1:08:54

, so who knows what's going on there ? You say

1:08:56

Spotify's HiFi Lossless is in beta

1:08:58

.

1:08:58

It is yeah , oh , that's exciting yeah exactly

1:09:01

.

1:09:02

And what's this ? Google have

1:09:05

delayed the cookie

1:09:07

apocalypse again .

1:09:08

Yes , cookie crumble is not going to happen . Yes

1:09:11

, they've delayed it again for the third time

1:09:13

. It's now moved over to early 2025

1:09:16

.

1:09:17

They're mad , aren't they ? Wow

1:09:19

, google Scared , actually , I think , rather

1:09:21

mad , yeah , no , I think so

1:09:23

. Op3 has done some little

1:09:26

changes with its API . It's got a

1:09:28

brand new API and various things

1:09:30

, which is nice

1:09:32

, and you'll find a ton of OP3

1:09:35

data at the podcast business

1:09:38

journal , podcastbusinessjournalcom slash

1:09:40

data . It's a super

1:09:42

, super good system . You

1:09:45

know , here we are talking about IAB and the potential

1:09:47

decline of the IAB . Decline

1:09:56

of the IAB . I would suggest that also , measuring your podcast using OP3 is a really good system for

1:09:58

completely comparable numbers with

1:10:00

everybody else who's using them around

1:10:03

2000 other shows

1:10:05

in there . So definitely

1:10:07

worthwhile a peek on that . And

1:10:11

yeah , I

1:10:13

noticed that there are lots of people

1:10:15

using the brand new podcasting 2.0

1:10:18

logo , which

1:10:20

is all very nice , adam appears to be using it on

1:10:22

his well , I am too . Yeah

1:10:24

, you're absolutely right as

1:10:26

well as Adam using it on his fancy

1:10:29

podcastindexsocial

1:10:32

thing , and

1:10:34

it's also on the podcasting2.org

1:10:37

website as we speak , which is

1:10:39

very nice . Daniel has added

1:10:41

it to there

1:10:43

. It's quite small , could be bigger

1:10:46

. Feedback what do I know ? Feedback

1:10:48

what do

1:10:50

I know ? I'm not a web designer , so

1:10:54

yeah , so that's all really good news as well .

1:10:56

Yeah , and I think Guy

1:10:59

Martin who came up with the logo . I've

1:11:01

been talking to him about putting a podcast in

1:11:03

2.0 merch shop . I think it's going

1:11:05

to be off the website that you've created

1:11:08

with Daniel James . So , yeah , hopefully that'll

1:11:10

be up soon as well .

1:11:11

Yeah , so that'll be interesting . So that

1:11:13

will add a whole world of complication , but

1:11:17

it should be nice . But yes , there he is

1:11:19

in our show notes . There

1:11:21

he is wearing a Podcasting

1:11:23

2.0 hoodie , I think yeah

1:11:26

, and hat and hat , which looks

1:11:28

Hoodie and a hat .

1:11:31

That's crazy Boostergram , boostergram

1:11:33

. Corner on the

1:11:35

Pod News Weekly Review .

1:11:43

Yes , it's our favourite time of the week . It's Boostergram Corner and , just as a reminder

1:11:45

, sam and I share all of the boosts for this podcast

1:11:47

in between us , which is

1:11:49

a super helpful thing . Do we have any boosts

1:11:51

this week , sam ? I happen to be in Melbourne , not in my us , which is a super helpful thing . Do we have any boosts this week , sam ? I

1:11:54

happen to be in Melbourne , not in my house , so

1:11:56

therefore , I've got no idea .

1:11:57

We've got a couple , I think yeah . Guy Martin

1:11:59

, who we just talked about , who came up with the

1:12:01

Podcasting 2.0 logo , said

1:12:04

negative sats is such a fantastic

1:12:06

idea , the potential is massive , and

1:12:08

he sent us 2,468

1:12:10

sats .

1:12:11

Who do we appreciate that's

1:12:14

? Very good Kyrene at the Mere Mortals

1:12:16

podcast . Let's go , mo . Cheers

1:12:19

to the developer . Oh , that's your developer . Cheers

1:12:21

to the developers who make all the fancy stuff

1:12:24

work and sent a row

1:12:26

of Richards to you , yes .

1:12:28

He also sent another one which I didn't quite understand

1:12:30

but

1:12:53

it's .

1:12:53

I bought one kilogram of Tim Tams with me to Brazil . They've been a hit . Was going to

1:12:55

bring Vegemite as well , but decided there is enough suffering in the world without

1:12:57

me adding to it . Yes , he's . He's Ky , because I'm doing a session at the podcast show in

1:12:59

London . We're talking about Australian podcasting and I would like , as

1:13:01

a little bit of a gimmick , to leave a chocolate

1:13:03

Tim Tam on every single chair . But

1:13:07

I have no idea where to buy individually wrapped

1:13:09

Tim Tams . If anyone knows , I

1:13:11

thought Officeworks did , but I couldn't find any in Officeworks .

1:13:13

Just get some penguins , James . It's the same

1:13:15

thing .

1:13:16

If anybody knows ? No , that's not the

1:13:18

point . So if anybody knows

1:13:21

. Editor at podnewsnet , dave

1:13:23

Jackson , 1,500 sats . Thank

1:13:25

you , Dave . He says . I too , like

1:13:27

John C Dvorak . What's your beef , sam

1:13:29

?

1:13:30

Well , I just used to listen to John C Dvorak

1:13:32

when he was working with Leo

1:13:34

Laporte and I'd just say our

1:13:36

politics are very different and

1:13:39

unless he's changed . I just

1:13:41

think hmm , I

1:13:44

have nothing personal against John , I just don't like his

1:13:46

politics .

1:13:47

Well . Well , there you go . I've

1:13:50

got no idea what his politics are and I don't care

1:13:52

. No , sumquack

1:13:55

, there's

1:13:57

new names , new names , sumquack

1:14:00

, shouting , audiobooks

1:14:02

, boost , all in capitals

1:14:04

. Thank you for a short

1:14:07

row of Richards . Tankwater

1:14:09

says how about calling them listener

1:14:11

sats ? This is your reverse

1:14:13

sat idea . Um , yes

1:14:18

, maybe , uh , pod home . Yeah

1:14:20

, this must be barry , thanks for listening to . About

1:14:22

podcasting and a smile . Um

1:14:25

, great show with sam . Yes , um , I

1:14:27

uh spotted this on the

1:14:30

LinkedIn thing

1:14:33

as well this week , him talking

1:14:35

to you about

1:14:37

all kinds of stuff . So it's

1:14:39

available on a website allthewsaboutpodcastingshow

1:14:44

allthewsaboutpodcastingshow for you to have a listen

1:14:46

. 10,000 sats from Barry . So

1:14:48

thank you for that .

1:14:50

Just ignore the next one . I'm not sure that's just me actually

1:14:52

sending out yes I know you've .

1:14:54

You've sent us a boost . Thanks very much . That's

1:14:56

very kind of you . And then , finally

1:14:58

, 20 000 sats from kevin

1:15:00

bay . Somehow , some

1:15:03

way 1.2 million

1:15:05

sats passed through my little v

1:15:07

for v , music , podcast sats

1:15:09

and sounds since started . I'm

1:15:11

absolutely baffled by it all . I'll

1:15:13

spend my portion on activity , pub

1:15:15

education , kevin Bay . Thank you

1:15:17

so much . I think that

1:15:19

gives you a big baller jingle , which

1:15:22

I don't have with me , but if I did , I would

1:15:24

play it right now . So

1:15:26

very kind . What's happened for you this week , sam ?

1:15:29

Well , a couple of things . I don't know if you've read it

1:15:31

yet , but the W3C have put out a

1:15:33

new document called the Vision for the Web , which , again

1:15:36

, I highly recommend everyone having a look at . It's

1:15:38

very good . I guested

1:15:41

with Adam and Dave last Friday , which

1:15:43

I thoroughly enjoyed . Oh , thank you very much . Yeah

1:15:45

, no , I thoroughly enjoyed that . And

1:15:48

I listened to Mike McHugh from

1:15:50

Flipboard . He's got a podcast called

1:15:52

Dot Social and he interviewed Rachel

1:15:55

Lambert and Peter Cottle , who

1:15:59

are the people behind Threads , and they talked about

1:16:01

federation of Threads

1:16:03

and how it works with

1:16:05

other activity pub clients , and

1:16:07

they are fully committed to doing that . So

1:16:09

that's really exciting . Sadly

1:16:12

, you can't get

1:16:14

Federation with Threads unless you're in the US , canada

1:16:16

or Japan right now , so I can't test

1:16:19

it . But I did enable my Flipboard

1:16:21

to work with Fediverse clients

1:16:23

, so now I can read all my Mastodon , or

1:16:25

all my messages I used to read in Mastodon

1:16:27

, now in my Flipboard , which is quite nice .

1:16:30

Yeah , well

1:16:32

, there's a thing . There's a thing I noticed you got

1:16:35

a nice write-up in the city university

1:16:37

of london alumni magazine , which I

1:16:39

linked to earlier on in

1:16:41

uh the week , um , talking

1:16:43

about uh , what you're working on

1:16:45

, which is very cool yeah , that was hannah .

1:16:47

Very nice of her to do that . She's uh

1:16:50

, yes , she's very good at

1:16:52

doing that . I was going to tell you , tell you something she's

1:16:54

doing , but I realized I can't , so

1:16:56

I will move on . I was about to

1:16:58

let the cat out the bag and I went yes

1:17:00

, you're not allowed to say that's it , yeah . So

1:17:02

, um , yes . And then I uh the

1:17:05

last thing might be the most interesting thing

1:17:07

actually , james , and we may have to talk about it

1:17:09

next week . Um , I

1:17:11

had a little rant about the lack of

1:17:13

Podcasting 2.0 support from Podcast

1:17:15

Movement Evolutions and the London Podcast

1:17:18

Show . They basically

1:17:20

have got nothing to say on Podcasting

1:17:22

2.0 that I can see . That's publicly

1:17:24

available . So I just put a little

1:17:26

rant up on Mastodon and Adam responded

1:17:29

well , why don't we run our own conference

1:17:31

? And he said I'll gladly promote

1:17:33

and attend it anywhere in the world and thought so

1:17:35

we started talking about should it be in Dallas ? Should it be

1:17:37

in Amsterdam ? Where should it be ? Blah , blah

1:17:39

, blah . And then I remembered , james , I

1:17:41

did a podcast festival back in 2019

1:17:44

, which you were a part of . Indeed

1:17:46

, I thought hang on a minute , why

1:17:48

didn't we just do a virtual podcasting

1:17:50

2.0 conference using all the

1:17:52

tools and technologies that we now have value

1:17:55

for , value sats , live item

1:17:57

tag and we can have

1:17:59

a . You keynote it from

1:18:01

the beginning . Adam coming in later from

1:18:03

America means we can get

1:18:05

any speaker anywhere in the world , as we

1:18:07

did with the podcast festival , and just run

1:18:10

a festival for 24 hours .

1:18:12

So I'm looking at that now . Yes , that would

1:18:14

be a very interesting plan , and

1:18:17

if the only way of listening is through

1:18:20

a podcasting 2.0 app , well

1:18:23

, that would be even more exciting . And maybe

1:18:25

that is the entrance fee . So

1:18:28

, yeah , no , that sounds like a good plan

1:18:30

. It means that nobody needs to travel anywhere

1:18:32

. So , yes

1:18:35

, roll on that as an idea . I'd

1:18:37

say .

1:18:38

Good luck with it .

1:18:39

I'll leave you to it . Oh

1:18:41

, thanks , mate . And

1:18:45

the last one is I've agreed with

1:18:47

the Podcast Academy to do a series of

1:18:49

podcasting 2.0 events

1:18:52

, talking about it from the PSP side

1:18:54

. The first one is on the 21st

1:18:56

of June . I'll have more details later . Very

1:18:59

nice , very nice . So

1:19:02

what's happened for you , james ? Why are you in

1:19:04

sunny Melbourne ?

1:19:05

Well , I'm in sunny Melbourne because I've

1:19:07

got a few meetings tomorrow with some movers

1:19:09

and shakers of the podcast world . That's

1:19:12

what I'm telling my accountant . It has nothing to do with

1:19:14

the fact that I'm also seeing a gig

1:19:16

as well while

1:19:19

I'm down here , but

1:19:21

yes , I'm looking forward to that , so that should

1:19:23

be good fun . What else has happened for

1:19:25

me this week ? Now here's the thing

1:19:27

If you send , if

1:19:29

you go onto the PodNews website and

1:19:32

you send a link from

1:19:34

one of the PodNews you know

1:19:36

update pages , one of the normal pages that

1:19:38

we do you send a

1:19:40

link through iMessage , then

1:19:44

you will notice that when you send a link through

1:19:46

iMessage , there is a little play button and it

1:19:48

plays you the audio right in I

1:19:50

in iMessage or Messages

1:19:52

or whatever the thing is called on iPhone

1:19:54

, and it turns

1:19:57

out that Messages uses the

1:19:59

Open Graph audio tag

1:20:01

, which I have gone

1:20:03

mad and enabled for absolutely

1:20:05

everything on the website now

1:20:07

. So if you share our front page

1:20:10

, then it will share a promo

1:20:12

piece of audio for the

1:20:15

Pod News newsletter . If you go

1:20:17

and share this

1:20:20

show , the Pod News Weekly Review

1:20:22

, if you share this show's page from

1:20:24

Pod News , then it will

1:20:26

automatically share the

1:20:28

trailer audio for that . So

1:20:32

, yeah , I think I've hit on

1:20:34

something here , wow , yeah

1:20:37

, and you'll find that a number

1:20:39

of different podcast hosting companies

1:20:41

who I may have told about this have

1:20:43

also turned this on as well . So

1:20:46

, yeah , it turns out that messages

1:20:50

is a surprisingly good method

1:20:53

of , you know , giving you a little bit of audio

1:20:56

to have listened to . So , yeah

1:20:58

, that was an interesting discovery .

1:21:01

You discovered the email one as well , didn't you ?

1:21:03

Yeah , yeah . So who knows ? Who

1:21:06

knows what's going on . What else are you ?

1:21:07

going to discover what else ?

1:21:10

am I going to discover and who else is

1:21:12

going to put it into play ? Who

1:21:14

knows , and do you know what ? The

1:21:17

Messages app comes up as in

1:21:20

your stats . No . It comes

1:21:22

up as Apple Core Media . Another

1:21:25

triumph , apple . And on that

1:21:27

bombshell . That's it for

1:21:29

this week . Thank you so much to Ross and

1:21:32

to Catherine for

1:21:34

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