0:01

Welcome to Portland. Portland is sponsored by

0:02

Buzzsprout used by over a

0:04

hundred thousand podcasters

0:04

like us to host, promote

0:07

and track your podcast. And by riverside.fm, 2.0

0:09

recording podcasts and

0:13

video interviews in studio

0:13

quality from anywhere.

0:16

Just got an upgrade and an

0:16

iOS app we're using it now.

0:19

The upgrade, not the iOS app. It's the 19th of August, 2021.

0:24

I'm James credit and the editor

0:24

of hot news.net in Australia.

0:27

I think here in the

0:27

UK and I'm Brian Barletta

0:30

from sounds profitable. And later I'll talk

0:31

about who wins when IP

0:33

address is disappeared.

0:35

Portland's a weekly

0:35

podcast where Sam and

0:37

I delve deeper into the

0:37

week's podcasting news.

0:41

So let's get going with the big stories from pod news this week.

0:44

Now. Your listing tasted music.

0:47

Let's have a little chat about that for a second. Oh yeah.

0:50

Amazon apple or Spotify.

0:52

You use something else,

0:53

don't you? I do. I use YouTube music.

0:56

Yes.

0:57

What, why

0:59

it's possibly going

0:59

to be the next question?

1:02

so I've got a Spotify account,

1:02

which has a couple accounts.

1:05

So my other half uses that

1:05

a fair amount, but mainly I

1:09

use YouTube music because the

1:09

algorithms are better for.

1:13

Hey, just play me some music. So it's got a bunch of different

1:15

automated algorithms that just

1:19

seem to do quite a good job. So I keep on coming

1:20

back to YouTube music

1:23

and keep on using it. And it's, it's a

1:24

pretty good service. Do you use it

1:26

for podcasting as well? Listen to your podcasts.

1:29

I

1:29

don't use it for

1:29

listening to podcasts, so it

1:31

doesn't have a podcast app

1:31

in the same way that Spotify

1:35

does all the Deezer does. For example.

1:37

Quite a lot of people use

1:37

YouTube for listening to

1:40

podcasts, because there are quite a few podcasts which are uploaded there.

1:44

I don't use it for that. I just use it for music.

1:46

Yeah. So Tom Webster says that nearly

1:47

one in five weekly listeners

1:51

say that YouTube is their

1:51

primary service for podcasts.

1:54

That's a lot more than I thought. Cause I have never listened to

1:56

her or even seen, a podcast.

1:59

unless you call it a video

1:59

cast, is it a case of.

2:02

They're recording the podcast

2:02

as a video and putting it out

2:06

onto apple as a podcast now onto

2:08

YouTube as video, it was

2:08

pretty well what's going on.

2:11

So I read Tom's newsletter,

2:11

which basically says you

2:14

should be in YouTube. You should make your podcast

2:16

available in YouTube.

2:18

It's really important because

2:18

people will find it there.

2:21

And I looked at that and I thought, oh, maybe I should put the pod news pod.

2:25

Into YouTube. So worked out a way

2:26

of automating that.

2:28

And so that's now automatically

2:28

getting uploaded into YouTube.

2:32

Thank you, Zapier, for

2:32

having a clever trick

2:35

in order to get there. So that was pretty cool.

2:38

So there are some podcasts

2:38

which are available in that way.

2:41

Joe Rogan, for example,

2:41

obviously used to put his

2:44

entire podcast in inverted

2:44

commas onto YouTube.

2:47

I know that some people will claim it's not a podcast, at the end of the day, that

2:49

conversation is a boring one.

2:52

I don't particularly wish to

2:52

start entertaining that one,

2:55

but yeah, there are a bunch

2:55

of things that people call

2:58

podcasts available on YouTube.

3:01

And it's probably important

3:01

if you are a podcaster to

3:04

be there anyway, so that

3:04

people actually find you on

3:06

that platform too, I think.

3:08

Okay. Can you talk us through a little bit? You said you use Zapier,

3:10

which is basically a way

3:13

of automating the process,

3:13

but what did you actually

3:16

do? I've pronounced to wrongly. Have I, is it is up here.

3:19

Zapier is French. Is it zip PA?

3:22

it's so tomato.

3:24

So yes. So what I do bear in

3:25

mind that I self host.

3:28

So that's a first step, but I

3:28

self host my entire podcast.

3:32

So therefore, one of the things

3:32

that I started doing about

3:35

three, four months ago is I

3:35

have a hugely complicated bit

3:39

of apple scripts and command

3:39

line code, which basically

3:43

takes the audio that I. Produce and add the

3:45

images to it and produces

3:49

different versions of it

3:49

and does all of that stuff.

3:53

And then uploads it to Amazon

3:53

S3 where I serve it from.

3:56

So I figured that there

3:56

was a way using FFM peg of

4:00

producing a video version,

4:00

which is essentially

4:02

the audio with a graph. So you can do that relatively

4:04

easily and relatively simply,

4:07

and then using a bit of a

4:07

Zapiar magic that is then

4:13

automatically uploaded to

4:13

YouTube, directly from that.

4:18

So I'm not probably,

4:18

the typical.

4:21

Podcaster in terms of the

4:21

way that I host my show, but

4:25

that's certainly been quite

4:25

useful in terms of being able

4:28

to completely automate it. I, my thought was if I get

4:29

another 10 plays, then great.

4:34

As long as I spent no

4:34

additional time whatsoever.

4:37

In getting my show onto

4:37

YouTube if I get any additional

4:41

plays and it just so happens. I think that the first

4:43

show that I threw up there

4:45

has got 17 plays so far. that's 17 plays that it might

4:47

not have done otherwise.

4:50

So that's probably not too bad. So I'll carry on doing

4:51

that, particularly if it's completely automated.

4:55

But if I was uploaded. Manually every single time then?

4:59

no, it's suddenly not worth my

4:59

time in terms of doing that.

5:02

It's interesting

5:03

because, I do a football

5:03

podcast and we're going

5:06

to live stream that to

5:06

YouTube and Facebook today.

5:10

And so once it's live streamed,

5:10

actually it's stored and saved.

5:14

The process of uploading

5:14

doesn't become a process, but

5:17

then it's not edited either. So they were going to see

5:19

whether we can do an unedited

5:22

version of the YouTube channel. And then we're going to edit

5:24

the podcast for apple and

5:27

Spotify, et cetera, et cetera,

5:27

because we think that's where

5:29

we want to do the editing time. So it would be interesting.

5:32

What the take-up is. Yeah, probably

5:33

nothing, but yeah, no,

5:35

I think it's relatively low. Yeah. Although it was

5:37

interesting to see.

5:40

Cause I use YouTube to

5:40

watch the occasional random

5:42

bit of video as well, too.

5:45

Like Tom Scott stuff. And there the bloke on the

5:46

isle of man, I can't remember

5:48

his name at the moment, the bloke on the Clive, on the isle of man who.

5:52

Takes electronics to bits of an

5:54

exciting life.

5:57

You laugh Sethi. so I use a YouTube,

5:58

a fair amount.

6:00

And what was interesting is

6:00

that it came up to me, with

6:05

a recommendation to go and

6:05

listen to pod news, which I

6:08

thought was quite fascinating. So clearly it spotted

6:10

that I like the occasional

6:13

thing about podcasting. So if it's done that to

6:15

other people, then that.

6:19

Really interesting. There is a old wives tale, and

6:20

I'm still relatively convinced.

6:23

It is no wives tale saying

6:23

that if you just upload a

6:26

static image with some audio,

6:26

then Google's algorithms

6:30

or you choose algorithms. Don't like it very much.

6:33

And it never appears

6:33

on recommendations.

6:36

I would like to see some data behind that because the only people I've heard

6:38

saying that have been saying

6:41

that based on hunches, one

6:42

of the things we

6:42

do with this podcast is.

6:45

Add chapters and we

6:45

add chapter imagery.

6:49

Could you automate it so that

6:49

those chapters and chapter

6:53

imagery appeared in the

6:53

YouTube video in effect so

6:58

that the actual static image

6:58

wasn't static, but it was

7:01

actually changing with the

7:02

chapters. That is what some

7:03

people have suggested.

7:05

I am aware that there

7:05

are a few tools.

7:08

I think PRX made one of

7:08

them, which does a sort of

7:11

headliner type, bouncing

7:11

graphic of the audio as well.

7:15

And it occurs to me that,

7:15

that's probably something

7:17

which is sitting there

7:17

waiting for an enterprising

7:20

coder to end up doing. If it doesn't exist already,

7:22

of course, to pull the chapter

7:26

information out of the. Audio file and to, add

7:27

the bouncing imagery and

7:31

all that kind of stuff. If there's a command line tool

7:32

that you can use for that,

7:35

then, yeah, I'm certainly

7:35

all, all up for that.

7:38

That will be fantastic. Hey,

7:39

maybe somebody will

7:39

tell us now moving on.

7:41

last week we had a little

7:41

chat about podcast movement,

7:45

and we talked about. Mark Cuban, being

7:46

less great teeth.

7:49

Great. Great. Yeah, basically he was not

7:50

very complimentary about the

7:53

podcasting industry, but one

7:53

of the things you did last

7:56

week was you pointed out

7:56

the terms of service, which

8:00

were a little bit erroneous. What's happened since.

8:03

Yes. So they've ended up

8:03

changing their terms of

8:05

service, which is nice. I got a tip off from the fire

8:07

side PR team, which is nice

8:11

and they have removed a thing. They've taken one thing out

8:13

of the terms of service,

8:16

which basically said. We can basically take your

8:18

idea and produce something

8:21

which is competitive to it. which was nice.

8:24

And they've actually taken

8:24

that clause completely out

8:27

of the terms and conditions,

8:27

which is really good and

8:30

exactly what they should

8:30

be doing, what they have.

8:34

Kept in the terms of conditions,

8:34

sadly is the clause that says

8:39

that Pharcyde owns everything

8:39

that you make on the platform

8:43

and can use it and can even sell

8:43

it without paying you a penny.

8:48

And that information is

8:48

still there, which is in

8:52

complete contradiction to

8:52

what a fan on for termites.

8:56

On stage, whereas she

8:56

was apparently saying

8:59

your ideas are your IP. yes, they might be my

9:00

IP, but I've also given

9:04

them to fantasize to go

9:04

out and sell by signing

9:07

the terms and conditions. So it is interesting.

9:11

And I thought it was interesting

9:11

that the PR company didn't

9:14

come back to me after I re

9:14

read their terms and conditions

9:17

and pointed this out again. Yeah.

9:20

So I wonder quite what's

9:20

going on there, except I don't

9:23

really wonder what's going on

9:23

there because I tried logging

9:25

into fire site this afternoon

9:25

and I got a beautiful sign.

9:30

As I logged into fireside,

9:30

it says account access

9:32

locked, please contact

9:32

[email protected].

9:36

There is an issue with your

9:36

account is the issue that

9:38

I've mentioned, what your terms and conditions are. So maybe I'm the first

9:41

person to get banned from

9:44

Pharcyde, but that's not a particularly good look.

9:46

that was pretty cool,

9:46

actually that I put that down

9:49

as a little memento, clip

9:49

it and put it on your wall.

9:53

Now, moving on, you

9:53

were talking about IP.

9:55

Let's talk about something else. IP addresses.

9:58

Now Brian Barletta, friend of

9:58

the show has been talking about.

10:01

IP addresses. What's he been going

10:02

on about I'm so

10:04

pleased that you've started doing this friend of the show thing.

10:07

It's a wonderful thing. yes. Brian has been talking about,

10:09

so apple is doing a thing

10:11

called private relay, which

10:11

is there to hide your IP

10:15

addresses from other people

10:15

they're using it for safari

10:19

at the moment, or for, they

10:19

will be using it for safari.

10:22

There'll be using it for,

10:22

apple mail and stuff like that.

10:25

Of course, VPNs do the

10:25

same sort of job as well.

10:28

P address and they give

10:28

your IP address, to people

10:31

that you connect to. they give an IP address,

10:32

which is shared with

10:34

many other people. And that sounds like a

10:36

great idea for privacy,

10:38

because it is however,

10:38

is that a great idea for.

10:42

Podcasting, because it turns

10:42

out that IP addresses are the

10:46

way that we count the amount

10:46

of downloads that we get.

10:49

And it really gave me pause for thought. When I read what Brian

10:51

had written about in

10:54

sounds profitable. So to find out more, I

10:55

caught up with Brian Butler.

10:59

From sounds profitable and

10:59

asked him a little more.

11:02

So it sounds portable

11:02

is a, newsletter first and

11:05

now a podcast going on six

11:05

months for the podcasts a

11:08

year for the newsletter, all

11:08

about podcast advertising

11:11

and advertising technology. And it's part of the

11:12

pod news network. Okay.

11:15

I've heard of that. Tell us we are losing IP

11:16

addresses in the future.

11:20

How does that work?

11:20

I think the writing's on the wall. I think privacy is the new cool.

11:24

And as a consumer,

11:24

I'm all about it.

11:27

I think. We're in a situation where

11:28

privacy is being used to

11:31

mask the advantages that

11:31

these major silos are

11:34

benefiting from, because

11:34

they benefit the individuals.

11:37

So massively at the slight

11:37

advantage, have these individual

11:41

silos that we can ignore because

11:41

it's way less invasive than

11:44

everything else they've done. So apple and plenty of other

11:45

providers out there started.

11:49

Cookie started to

11:49

remove mobile device ID.

11:51

we see these statistics about

11:51

Facebook dropping to 4% of

11:55

mobile device ID shared with it. And now IP address is the

11:57

next on the chopping block

12:00

because IP address can

12:00

still tie to so many things.

12:03

It can still tie to your household. It can still tie to

12:05

public record information.

12:08

there's a lot there. And first party data ties

12:09

to IP address, right?

12:12

So if you log into New

12:12

York times or something

12:15

else, it attaches there. Apple is making a play

12:16

with their new, private

12:19

relay, their new product. That's part of iCloud, which

12:20

iCloud plus actually, which is

12:23

just an upgrade for everybody

12:23

who is already having iCloud,

12:26

which I think most people

12:26

on an iPhone or iOS device

12:30

have that it's going to start

12:30

masking that IP address.

12:34

And so it starts as only being

12:34

something in safari, but I

12:38

cloud is a central part of

12:38

the entire operating system.

12:42

And safari is a baked in yeah. And so it's a no brainer that

12:44

this is just them testing the

12:47

waters to move completely away

12:47

from sharing IP address, which

12:51

unfortunately for podcasting is

12:51

the only actual listener metric.

12:56

Because I was going

12:56

to ask the IP address.

12:59

So you've got. Private relay, which is masking

13:00

IP addresses, but actually

13:03

Google has something similar. They're giving a free

13:05

VPN away to anybody with

13:08

a Google one account. And they've been doing that

13:09

for the last six months or so.

13:12

And of course, loads of

13:12

people use VPNs as well.

13:15

When you don't have IP

13:15

addresses, what does that

13:18

mean for a typical podcast?

13:20

Host a typical a company

13:20

that wants to just analyze

13:24

how many people they have

13:24

getting their podcast.

13:27

Yeah.

13:28

So the IP address right

13:28

now will help you get down

13:30

to relatively the individual.

13:32

if it, a bunch of people from

13:32

a college are all downloading

13:35

a podcast, they're going to

13:35

look similar, unfortunately.

13:38

but what we're talking about is that on a bigger scale, Is going to look like

13:40

they're from colleges, right?

13:43

Everybody is going to look

13:43

like they're bound together.

13:46

So while my household and the

13:46

household of everybody on my

13:49

street right now looks different

13:49

with IP address while cellular

13:52

connections look different per

13:52

device, what we're going to see

13:56

is geo-based groupings right

13:56

down to maybe a city level,

14:00

as high as a country level. But those groupings are going

14:02

to mean that everybody in

14:05

San Antonio, Texas is going

14:05

to look exactly the same.

14:08

So how does a podcast

14:08

host differential.

14:11

Which one is an individual

14:11

for every unique download

14:15

of what a pod news. So if you have a hundred people

14:16

listening in San Antonio in the

14:20

future where these IP addresses

14:20

are all aggregated together,

14:24

and it just shows up as one,

14:24

you don't know if that's one

14:26

person downloading it a hundred

14:26

times or a hundred individuals.

14:29

we might not know in

14:29

the future how many people are

14:32

downloading our podcasts at all. So it's a privacy thing and

14:34

privacy is good, but also

14:39

we're actually losing any

14:39

numbers at all in terms of

14:43

podcast downloads, which is

14:43

possibly not quite so good.

14:46

Yeah. And that's the big

14:46

thing here is that. the value to the

14:48

consumer is fantastic.

14:50

But podcasting is built on this

14:50

chicken and egg scenario of

14:53

whose audiences at actually, You

14:53

ask NPR whose audience it is.

14:58

And they'll say, it's theirs. You ask apple, let's

14:58

say it's theirs. So we have the app and

15:00

we have the content.

15:03

Now the app wins, apple

15:03

doesn't need IP address.

15:06

They have the listener being

15:06

unique because if not, then

15:09

my playlist and your playlist

15:09

would look exactly the same

15:11

if they couldn't differentiate

15:11

between the two of us.

15:14

And then from there

15:14

they're sending that

15:17

request for the episode. Apple doesn't care, how

15:18

little data they said

15:20

neither to Spotify, Google,

15:20

Amazon, any of these players,

15:23

they capture all of it. But that hosting platform

15:24

does need to know that

15:27

for things such as content

15:27

restrictions in geolocation,

15:30

or, so many different things,

15:30

but the core getting to the

15:33

absolute core is that we. All the podcasts reporting on

15:35

IP address because I don't think

15:39

20 years ago, anybody really

15:39

thought, or even four years ago,

15:42

anybody really thought that IP

15:42

address was going to go away.

15:45

Privacy was a pipe dream to

15:45

the level it is right now.

15:48

But what this means is that

15:48

those podcast players either

15:52

they're going to continue

15:52

this silo game they're playing

15:55

and just completely split up. And we're going to have no

15:57

say in it or the hosting

16:00

platforms and the publishers are going to have to get together and say, I'm just not

16:02

comfortable with my content

16:04

being anywhere that I can't get

16:04

that information, whether it's

16:08

continued IP, probably not. Or it's a different identifier

16:10

that still gives the same

16:12

semblance and value, and

16:12

probably even provides more

16:15

value by saying the app said

16:15

the listener actually listened

16:19

to this much of the episode.

16:20

So whether it's

16:20

Apple's private relay or.

16:23

VPNs or anything else we're

16:23

going to a world of people

16:28

like buzz sprouts, our sponsor

16:28

people like Libsyn, people like

16:32

captivate, simply not having

16:32

the numbers, but apple and

16:35

Spotify and other podcast apps.

16:39

We'll still have the

16:39

numbers, but they'll be

16:41

obviously within apple and

16:41

Spotify ecosystem, which

16:45

essentially means they win. And it means that a independent

16:47

podcast has podcasters who are,

16:51

even if you're self hosting, as

16:51

I do for the pod news podcast or

16:56

hosting here on Buzzsprout for

16:56

Podland means that essentially

17:01

we get no numbers anymore. Only way that we can get

17:03

those numbers is to log into

17:06

apple podcasts, connect and

17:06

into Spotify for podcasters

17:09

and into presumably pocket

17:09

cost system and player FM

17:12

system and so on and so forth. that's a concern, isn't it?

17:16

Yeah.

17:16

it's definitely a concern. And I think that this is

17:17

something that I've been trying

17:19

to fight since I started a

17:19

year ago, is that we have

17:22

such a game of misdirection by

17:22

these privacy focused podcast.

17:26

People. Podcasting at its core is

17:26

the most privacy focused

17:30

format in all of media

17:30

with advertising, right?

17:33

maybe out of home, I

17:33

think maybe billboards

17:36

I'll give you that one. but at this point, I mean

17:38

your hosting provider

17:40

doesn't get that much data. The publishers get even

17:42

less, the tracking services

17:44

and attribution partners

17:44

get even less than that.

17:48

The apps have everything. They are not in any way, passing

17:50

over listener consent, opt in,

17:53

or opt out, whatever it may be. They're just making

17:55

this request. They're not telling us anything.

17:58

And they. All of it. Spotify, for example, as an

18:00

app can tell, if your phone's

18:03

up or in your pocket, right? Like it can tell if you're

18:04

using headphones, it can tell

18:06

you if you're playing it on a

18:06

speaker, all these different

18:09

actions, these apps know

18:09

so much more than anyone in

18:13

podcasting does and they're

18:13

keeping it to themselves.

18:15

And this will just be one more thing. Just pushes us towards

18:18

the silo lifestyle.

18:21

And I really hope we push

18:21

back because I think that

18:24

bigger companies will be able to weather it. NPR just hired two people

18:26

to manage their subscription

18:30

services through apple luxury. I don't think many

18:31

people can really afford.

18:34

but imagine if you were a

18:34

mid tier publisher doing

18:37

pretty well and now you have

18:37

to log into every portal or

18:40

even worse sounds profitable. Does this downwardly

18:41

well on overcast?

18:44

It, there's no reason for Marco

18:44

to ever build out that portal.

18:48

Yeah. So if 40% of my total listens

18:48

are on a podcast player that

18:52

just happens to resonate with

18:52

my listeners that doesn't

18:55

want to participate in this. And actually doesn't

18:57

capture that data. I'm dead in the water.

19:00

what are we going to do about it? Brown Barletta, what are

19:01

you going to do about it? Oh God.

19:04

I think, I grew up a little bit in this year. I think that it was very fun

19:06

to, to yell about all these

19:09

things and to tell people

19:09

about all these things and

19:11

try and idealistically. I have not been the biggest

19:13

fan of the IAB, but the

19:16

truth is that they're the only one organizing everyone in this room.

19:19

So I have joined the tech lab

19:19

and I have joined the audio

19:22

committee and I'm going to talk

19:22

to every single person I can.

19:26

I'm going to reach out and

19:26

continue to talk with apple,

19:28

Google, Spotify, Amazon. And I'm going to advocate for

19:29

all of them to just come to the

19:32

table and build a framework. We're past the point of

19:33

rad the, the listening

19:36

spec that MTR created. I think that we need to.

19:40

Core functionality. I think we need to safeguard the

19:41

base analytics of podcasting.

19:44

We need to acknowledge

19:44

that as an industry, we do

19:47

still revolve around RSS. We find such value in

19:48

the open nature of it.

19:51

If IP address wants to go away,

19:51

I think every single person

19:54

in podcasting would raise

19:54

their hand in support of that.

19:57

If we do not lose the metrics on

19:57

the hosting and publisher side.

20:01

So this is my invitation. I will gladly play shepherd.

20:04

I will gladly play matchmaker

20:04

and do whatever I have to do

20:07

to get everyone at the table. To just figure out how we do

20:09

this and maybe how we're the

20:12

first industry in advertising

20:12

to abandon IP address ahead

20:17

of the curve to show people

20:17

how it's done once again.

20:19

Wow. That'll be fascinating. Where can we read more of this?

20:22

If we want to find it? Yeah,

20:24

sounds profitable.com. and you can find,

20:26

the newsletter. You can find the podcast.

20:29

You can find the product

20:29

deep dives, where I go over,

20:31

how all these different,

20:31

amazing ad tech products work.

20:34

And at the end of the day,

20:34

I just want to say that ad

20:36

tech and podcasting is the

20:36

entire technology stack.

20:40

Every aspect of it can

20:40

help people advertise.

20:43

So this is really important. Advertising will survive.

20:45

These core metrics are critical

20:45

to everybody who does baked in

20:48

ads to not even doing ads, to

20:48

doing patriarchy and self-funded

20:52

or to just do it for fun. So this is critical to

20:53

everybody and I hope

20:56

everybody gets involved. Brian, thanks for that. Thanks for having

20:58

me, Brian Barletta

20:59

from sounds profitable. Are we any wise then?

21:03

What's the solution, James,

21:03

if we aren't going to be

21:05

able to count downloads.

21:07

I think hopefully the IAB

21:07

will come up with some plans.

21:11

Dave Jones has come up

21:11

with a plan as well.

21:14

The U L ID, which measures

21:14

downloads something.

21:19

Personally would like something

21:19

that measures listens because

21:21

I think a listen or a play

21:21

is rather more helpful than

21:26

a download because automatic

21:26

downloads are relatively

21:29

useless, but I think, quite a

21:29

lot of it is just we need to

21:32

work together because otherwise

21:32

we give all of the control in

21:36

the podcasting space to the

21:36

apples and Spotify is of this

21:39

world and indeed to overcast and

21:39

those sorts of, of, services.

21:44

And really it should be

21:44

up to the creator at least

21:47

should know how many plays

21:47

their podcast is getting.

21:51

So working together as

21:51

an industry as I think

21:54

the only way forward. So it's great to hear that

21:55

Brian has joined the IAB and

21:58

will be helping them with that.

22:01

Downloads the right metric though. a couple of weeks ago we

22:03

had the apple bug where

22:07

downloads weren't happening

22:07

and the numbers dropped.

22:10

And I said, maybe it's a

22:10

feature, because maybe it's the

22:12

better metric is the number of

22:12

times your podcast is played.

22:16

And then you said, no, and

22:16

you've spoken to apple.

22:18

It's not a feature. It is a bug. But actually if apple and

22:21

in their privacy jihad

22:25

are going to remain. the IP address along with other

22:26

things have been doing that.

22:29

Oh, is it just a better

22:29

metric to say that's

22:32

the number of plays? Cause it was an advertiser. That's all I care about.

22:35

If I don't care about

22:35

how many times my podcast

22:38

advert was downloaded,

22:38

if it wasn't heard, it

22:40

makes no difference. I would probably go further.

22:43

I think that automatic

22:43

downloads, aren't

22:46

actually very helpful. They use a lot, an awful lot of

22:47

completely pointless bandwidth.

22:51

They muddy the waters in

22:51

terms of, in terms of stats.

22:54

And, I think that. In 2005, they made an awful lot

22:57

of sense to slowly trickle down

23:03

media and data through your

23:03

tiny little internet connection

23:08

overnight so that you had

23:08

some more media to consume.

23:11

But we don't need any of

23:11

that now because our internet

23:14

pipes are large enough. I think from my point

23:15

of view, I would be very

23:19

comfortable if auto downloads

23:19

were not a thing anymore.

23:23

And it did make me think. I wonder when the last time that

23:25

I turned on auto downloads on

23:28

my podcast app was, and I think

23:28

I haven't turned auto downloads

23:34

on for the last five years. so occasionally I will

23:35

download shows when I'm

23:38

getting on an airplane. I remember them so I can

23:40

have a listen to them there.

23:43

I don't live in London anymore. And so obviously I'm not

23:44

using the tube and using

23:47

the underground means that, of course you have no, data connections.

23:50

And so you can't do any of that,

23:50

but it is coming slowly, but

23:54

surely, that's one place where

23:54

Russia gets it right in Moscow.

23:57

The wifi is on the trains,

23:57

not in the station, which

24:00

makes an awful lot more sense. But anyway, I just don't see how

24:02

auto downloads helps anyone with

24:07

the tiny exception of people

24:07

who commute on the tube and

24:12

people who use airplanes a lot. But, I work personally

24:13

get rid of it, but.

24:16

That's just me. And it's very easy for me to

24:17

say that because I have a very

24:20

large mobile data tariff and

24:20

I can download as much as I

24:24

like for people who maybe don't

24:24

have that large mobile data

24:29

tariff, things are different. Or if you live in Canada where

24:30

mobile data costs so much

24:33

anyway, there may be, things are

24:33

a different thing, but, yeah.

24:37

Now, James, did you

24:37

get invited to be on the

24:40

podcast academy board or did

24:40

you get an award or did you

24:44

actually go to the website? Anytime

24:45

last year I gave it

24:45

to talk about, a month or so

24:49

ago for the podcast academy

24:49

and loads of people saw it

24:52

and loads of people contacted

24:52

me afterwards saying what a

24:55

great talk it was and how can

24:55

we book you for your oh no,

24:57

they didn't quite do that. But. It was, it was really good.

25:01

So yeah, there is a bunch

25:01

of information on the

25:04

podcast Academy's website

25:04

in terms of membership.

25:08

I would probably have got

25:08

better value from it if

25:11

I lived in a better time

25:11

zone, but, yeah, it's a

25:14

good thing for me to be in. I think. So you are going

25:16

to renew your academy. Membership.

25:19

Yeah,

25:19

I think, for many of us, it is almost time to renew our membership.

25:23

Some of us already have what

25:23

the organization has said is

25:27

they've changed their plan. Their plan was that you had

25:29

to go back to the website

25:31

and renew and fill out

25:31

the forms all over again.

25:34

But now they are

25:34

renewing automatically.

25:37

You'll just get an email to. Beforehand, which

25:38

kind of makes sense. I think everybody's had little

25:40

bits of criticism about what

25:44

the podcast academy has or

25:44

hasn't done, but the Ambius

25:47

were a very good first

25:47

award ceremony this year.

25:50

I'm sure that's going to

25:50

get bigger and better as

25:53

we move back into in-person

25:53

events for next year.

25:55

And I know that they

25:55

were quite active.

25:59

Podcast movement. Although of course not many of

26:00

us could have been there either.

26:03

yeah, so I think it's a good

26:03

thing and I think, people should

26:06

give it its support and should

26:06

renew when the time comes.

26:09

Okay. So what is the goal

26:10

for the podcast

26:12

academy? Partially the goal is to raise

26:13

the standing of the industry

26:18

and to ensure that great

26:18

creative work is recognized.

26:23

I. Have always been jumping up

26:24

and down saying that the girl

26:27

should also be best practice.

26:30

The goals should be a

26:30

lobbying group of podcasters

26:34

to folks like apple and to

26:34

Spotify and everything else.

26:38

They are very clear that

26:38

they have no interest

26:40

in that whatsoever. and that's probably

26:41

fine, if a bit sad.

26:44

but I think, As an organization,

26:44

very similar to the radio

26:47

academy in the UK of a set

26:47

of people who are there to,

26:51

move the industry forward

26:51

to recognize great creative

26:56

work, where it happens,

26:56

to run awards, ceremonies

26:59

and that sort of thing. I think that's a

27:00

good thing to aim at.

27:03

And it's very similar of course,

27:03

to the film and movie academy

27:06

or whatever the thing's called

27:06

that runs the Oscars as well.

27:10

Okay.

27:10

What do you think of the academy? Cause I sense a different view.

27:13

I dunno. It's amazing how you've got

27:14

mystic Meg capabilities there.

27:18

Now I have to say I won't be

27:18

renewing and, I haven't had

27:21

anything that's given me any

27:21

value out of it that I thought,

27:25

I must put another $50 yeah. To the pole.

27:27

And that'll be

27:28

a hundred dollars by the way, because you've got a special deal last time.

27:31

So I, I don't, and I

27:31

think if they did take it.

27:34

Bigger stronger role in

27:34

the podcast industry.

27:37

we just talked about,

27:37

the IAB, we talked about

27:40

downloads, we talked about

27:40

standards, we've talked

27:43

about so many other things. The people are doing

27:44

more for this industry

27:46

and I would happily give them a hundred dollars. Is Adam Curry and Dave.

27:50

They've moved the industry

27:50

forward a whole load more,

27:54

even if not everything they're

27:54

doing is actually, everything

27:57

that's going to happen, but

27:57

they at least knocking the

27:59

door, asking the questions

27:59

and making the changes.

28:03

And that's what I hope that podcasts academy was going to do.

28:05

But it didn't.

28:06

Yeah, I would agree with that. I would temper that by saying

28:08

that I think these are very

28:11

different ends of the industry.

28:13

And I think what Adam Curry

28:13

and Dave Jones and the podcast

28:16

index and the new namespace has

28:16

done is very much grassroots.

28:20

It's very much coming back to

28:20

the foundation of podcasting.

28:24

Whereas I think the podcast

28:24

academy is the glamour and the

28:28

glitz and the Hollywood and the,

28:28

the wonder is of this world.

28:31

And I think they are a very different. Constituency, but yes, if

28:33

you're looking at moving the

28:37

industry forward, in terms of

28:37

technology, in terms of new

28:40

ideas, then there is no better

28:40

place right now than the podcast

28:45

index and the podcast namespace.

28:48

And I think that they're doing

28:48

a fantastic job in there.

28:51

I don't always agree with everything they do. But I think one of the things

28:53

that they are being very good

28:57

at doing now is listening

28:57

to everybody that's involved

29:01

on the podcast index.social

29:01

site, and, making sure that,

29:06

everybody gets a say and

29:06

everybody is listened to.

29:09

And I think that's a great move. If there's an award for

29:11

the people that have moved

29:14

the podcast industry on

29:14

more than anyone else

29:17

over the last 12 months. Definitely go to abdomen today.

29:22

I think they've done a fantastic job

29:23

moving swiftly on now. Voss sprung, Springwood

29:25

door technique.

29:27

James, do you speak German?

29:29

I speak enough, that I

29:29

understood a bit of this thing.

29:33

Yes. Do you want to explain what it is?

29:35

There's new podcast report

29:35

that was released in Germany

29:38

called hitting the right tone. It's a detailed a hundred.

29:42

Three page report, about

29:42

podcasting in Germany

29:45

and it's now available. So when I went and clicked

29:46

on the link, of course it

29:49

would stupidly, why would I

29:49

expect it to be in English?

29:51

It was in German. but you actually

29:52

did read through it. and you've got some

29:54

highlights from it. I did

29:56

one highlight was what

29:56

they called Adam Curry, which

29:59

I thought was fantastic. Would you like to know what

30:01

the pod father is in German?

30:04

Go for it. It's podcast. yes.

30:07

podcast Granado

30:07

Varta Adam Curry.

30:09

no, it was a really interesting report. It's massive as well.

30:13

33 pages long. It's got more data about

30:14

podcasting in Germany than

30:18

you ever thought that you

30:18

wanted to end up seeing.

30:20

what it is it's a bunch of

30:20

data which is available in

30:24

other places, but it's great

30:24

to see it all pulls together

30:27

and it's all German data. So there's no Edison

30:29

research stuff in here.

30:31

There's no dial tedious

30:31

pod track, information.

30:34

It's all German stuff. For example, Spotify.

30:38

Is the most used podcast

30:38

platform in Germany, 38% of

30:43

German podcast listeners use it. 38% apple podcast is at

30:45

number three, we're just 9.8%.

30:51

And YouTube is the

30:51

one in the middle 12%.

30:54

Going back to what we said

30:54

earlier, which is fascinating.

30:56

There's also some really

30:56

interesting data around

30:59

age ranges in there. Particularly you can see that.

31:02

Old people, 55 plus 65.

31:06

Plus, those sorts of

31:06

people, very rarely used

31:10

things like Spotify. And I'm much more likely

31:11

to use both things like

31:14

apple podcasts, but also the

31:14

ARDSM podcast app, which is.

31:19

Big German, public

31:19

service broadcaster.

31:22

some really interesting

31:22

information in there, even

31:24

if you just flip through

31:24

and have a look for the

31:26

graphs it's well worthwhile. The other thing that I

31:28

thought was really cool is it talks about a lot of

31:30

different podcasts in there.

31:33

And in the side notes, it's

31:33

got QR codes, which help you.

31:38

If you want to go and have a

31:38

listen to one of the podcasts

31:40

that they mentioned, then

31:40

you just scan the QR code.

31:43

Brilliant idea. So it's the first podcast,

31:45

report that I've ever seen using

31:49

QR codes and what a great idea. So it's well worth a

31:50

read, link to it from

31:53

pod news on Wednesday.

31:56

And it's a really good,

31:56

even if you don't speak a

31:58

word of German, you'll still

31:58

understand most of the,

32:02

of the graphs and things. It's well worth having

32:03

a look while I'll

32:04

put a link in the show notes. Yeah, indeed.

32:07

Now I thought we'd have a look

32:07

at some of the new apps that

32:11

are floating around this month. We talked at the beginning

32:13

of a Riverside to the

32:16

IO, which is what we're recording this show in. What have they added

32:18

James to Riverside today?

32:20

Oh, then yeah.

32:21

So they announced it. just in the last 24 hours,

32:23

Riverside 2.0, it looks

32:26

much the same as Riverside. One point out, I have to

32:28

be honest, but it's got

32:30

a load, more stuff in it. So it's got something called

32:33

AI video, which is very

32:36

clever, which you will find

32:36

really helpful for some of

32:39

the things that you're doing

32:39

for the YouTube versions of

32:42

the old spice boys, your,

32:42

your football podcast.

32:45

What it does automatically

32:45

is it switches cameras,

32:49

but it switches cameras. It works out when that person

32:51

is going to talk and then

32:55

switches the camera before

32:55

that person starts talking.

32:58

If you see what I mean

32:58

when it's mixing down the

33:01

video afterwards, so you

33:01

end up with this really

33:03

nicely mixed together. that you can end up using, it's

33:06

got full transcriptions in there

33:09

as well, which is very nice. It's also got an iPhone

33:12

app now, so you can take

33:15

part in a recording if you

33:15

only have an iPhone, which

33:19

is all very smart as well. If you want to have a quick

33:21

play with that, then there

33:24

is a code on their website,

33:24

which I thought I would pass

33:27

on here, which is live 35.

33:30

And if you use that code live

33:30

[email protected], you'll

33:34

get 35% off the first month.

33:36

They've asked us to say none of this. who knows what they're thinking.

33:39

but, it's a really good rock,

33:39

solid tool, and it's really nice

33:44

to see them spending quite a lot

33:44

of time, adding functions and

33:48

adding features and making it. Just car seats.

33:51

Another podcast player

33:51

has launched an embeddable

33:54

podcast player itself,

33:54

which supports chapters

33:57

from the podcast namespace.

33:59

Have you tried? yes, I've tried it. I've tried it on the pod

34:00

news podcast, which doesn't

34:03

contain any chapters through

34:03

the podcast namespace.

34:06

So that's not very helpful, is it? But it is the first embeddable

34:08

podcast player I've seen

34:10

that supports chapters from

34:10

the podcast namespace, which

34:14

is very cool and very neat. And what's nice about it

34:16

is that it's open source.

34:19

Reacts component,

34:19

which I'll be honest.

34:22

I don't understand. But I gather that makes it

34:23

really easy to add to your

34:25

website if you use reacts,

34:25

which I don't, but you

34:29

can see it on the pod news

34:29

podcast at the very least.

34:33

if you search for pod news

34:33

is embedded podcast players

34:36

page where we show up. These things, again, really

34:37

nice to see somebody using

34:41

some of the new tools that,

34:41

Adam and Dave have been

34:43

working on in a production

34:43

that anybody can use verbal.

34:48

It's added leaderboards to its app. What explain?

34:52

I didn't get it. What, why

34:54

leaderboard? so it's another way

34:54

of getting a chart.

34:57

Isn't it? So verbal, it's an interesting

34:57

sort of mix of podcast,

35:01

app and other things. the things which are

35:03

on their stations.

35:05

So you can have playlist

35:05

of various things.

35:07

You can upload your own audio

35:07

to it, if you want to, all

35:10

of that stuff, but they've

35:10

added leaderboards to the app.

35:14

So it shows what pieces

35:14

of audio are most popular.

35:17

That's both clear. But also in, but also

35:18

podcast shows as well.

35:21

the daily news leader board,

35:21

is a particularly good leader

35:25

board because when I went

35:25

to have a look at it, the

35:27

number one daily news show

35:27

on verbal was pod news.

35:31

So I was. That always nice

35:32

to end up seeing.

35:34

the company has also

35:34

updated their iOS app.

35:37

I don't think they've got an

35:37

Android app out there, but

35:40

you can, you can actually

35:40

use their website and that

35:43

seems to work quite nicely. yeah, that's a good thing.

35:45

Cool.

35:46

Just rapidly running through a few of the other products have updated audio

35:47

editor, ardor has released 6.9.

35:53

Again, what is their audio editor,

35:54

James? Yeah, it's a very fancy

35:55

and very complicated

35:57

looking audio editor, like

35:57

a Hindenburg except really

36:01

fancy and complicated looking. yeah. but it is, freely available.

36:04

It's a free open source, quite

36:04

complicated audio editor.

36:08

And so that's there for you. They're busy working on a

36:10

version seven as we speak

36:13

solve is a new on demand. Podcasting app, which

36:16

again is doing well.

36:20

It's wanting to be

36:20

another sort of audio.

36:22

Boo. It's wanting to have very

36:23

short shows, but this

36:27

one's a mix of short shows.

36:29

You can only have up

36:29

to 15 minutes on there.

36:31

it's a mix. That with a bit of clubhouse

36:32

or Pharcyde built in that

36:36

it's got an automated way

36:36

to find a panelists and

36:39

to post shows afterwards. So if you want to, you

36:40

can go onto the system,

36:43

go into solve, solve with

36:43

two V's and you can say, I

36:46

want to talk about Bitcoin.

36:49

And it will find you three other

36:49

panelists to talk about Bitcoin.

36:53

You talk about Bitcoin

36:53

for 15 minutes.

36:55

It automatically stops and makes

36:55

that show available as long

36:59

as you're on the app, because

36:59

it's not available as a podcast

37:02

and not available via an RSS

37:02

feed, but interesting to see.

37:06

More people diving into social

37:06

podcasting, apps as well.

37:10

And then there's pod kite as well. Isn't the same thing.

37:12

It's added a way to

37:13

embed the reviews for

37:13

your podcast on your own

37:16

website, which is cool. I think that's a good feature.

37:20

Would you, or have you

37:20

James added podcasts to

37:23

your website? So I have a boring rule, which

37:24

is that I don't embed third

37:27

party code on my website. Deep and hidden in the embedded

37:29

podcasts page, for example.

37:33

so now I haven't done that. They do have an API

37:34

as well, by the way. So I could dive in and do that.

37:38

But if you want to embed the

37:38

reviews, feel podcast on your

37:43

own site, then podcast is

37:43

a great way of doing that.

37:46

It pulls them from both

37:46

apple podcasts and from pod

37:49

chaser at the same time. So it's pretty good tool.

37:53

Yeah, we won't

37:53

use it on Podland. We don't have neurosurgeons.

37:56

Not yet. Yeah, go and reveal

37:57

us, say something nice.

38:00

We told them all

38:00

of about 10 shows ago

38:02

that it doesn't matter.

38:03

Yes, there is also back

38:03

to, and castomatic customatic

38:08

is doing something nice too.

38:09

Aren't they? Cosmetics and iOS app it's

38:10

working on adding those things.

38:14

Booster Graham's hooray. It allows listeners to send a

38:16

message along with a tip from

38:19

their app as they listened. So who else has been

38:21

doing some of that

38:23

as well? This week? Yeah. And FA fountain has

38:24

also added boost to

38:27

grams to it app as well. Fountain is probably the app.

38:31

If you want to go and play

38:31

with, sending boosts and

38:35

boost programs to your

38:35

favorite podcast is fountain

38:38

is probably the easiest

38:38

and most straightforward

38:41

way of doing that. It's available on both Android.

38:43

the phones, and you can

38:43

give that a play and it's

38:46

wonderful that they have

38:46

added boost programs into

38:49

their system as well. So that's really cool.

38:51

And I've been playing around with that. It's dead easy to get started

38:52

dead, easy to load it up

38:56

with a little bit of SATs

38:56

and away you go and talking

39:00

about SATs and boost to grams.

39:03

I'm hoping that Adam

39:03

might record us say it's

39:05

booster Graham Cole. but that was me doing an Adam

39:07

Curry impersonation there.

39:09

I'm not quite sure how good

39:09

that was, but anyway, yes.

39:12

It's time for booster

39:12

ground corner every week.

39:15

We hope to read some

39:15

of these messages out.

39:19

And you might remember from

39:19

last week, Kyron or Kirin still,

39:22

haven't quite worked it out

39:22

from the mere mortals podcast,

39:25

said hi to James and Sethi,

39:25

which I thought was hilarious.

39:30

And Send something saying,

39:30

Hey, Sam stroke, Cridland.

39:34

ha. apologies. I obviously did that

39:35

last Boostgram in a rush to make up for it.

39:38

These stats are just for

39:38

you and he is sent, it says

39:41

here 1,101 SATs and that

39:41

sent through Curio caster.

39:47

Thank you, Karen. For that's very kind. Yeah. Thank you very

39:49

much. I was worried last week

39:50

that it was, might have been an old school teacher

39:52

at my public school. Cause that's the only time

39:53

anyone calls me Sethi, but

39:56

they go, funnily enough. Yeah.

39:58

It's from our good friend,

39:58

Dave Jones, who says

40:00

really great SETI interview

40:00

with Michael Martin.

40:03

Mauritson last week. here's enough SATs for

40:05

a beer of Sam's choosing

40:07

I'm thinking Sam's in. Oatmeal stout or maybe a

40:09

port, Porter he's booked.

40:12

I'm not sure what that means,

40:12

but, I think he's suggesting

40:14

that we Brits just drink

40:14

dark beer, but, and that was

40:17

probably true in many ways,

40:17

because we don't have any nice

40:20

warm, but thank you, Dave,

40:21

for sending it through us. Do you not know

40:22

what a Porter is? Sethi explain a Porter porters.

40:29

Oh my goodness. So a Porter is a bit like a

40:30

stout, but less, still dark,

40:33

but less thick, less strong.

40:36

It's a wonderful beer to have

40:36

in autumn, which you are to

40:40

go going into in your country. in so many.

40:42

it's it's well-worth that,

40:42

that was 19,600 SATs, which

40:46

is an awful lot of sites

40:46

sent through Curio caster.

40:49

Thank you, Dave, for

40:49

that, I will, send them

40:51

to Sam at some point

40:52

being a wine importer is

40:52

the only thing I do, James.

40:55

So importing why'd. I do understand. Oh, look at what a portrait

41:00

is, but when I'm

41:00

next allowed to travel

41:02

to the UK, then I will

41:02

introduce you to a Porter.

41:05

One of the best porters that

41:05

you can get is from a Sam

41:09

Smiths pub Taddy Porter.

41:11

It's called it's very good. And I would heartily

41:13

recommend that more

41:15

boost to Graham's drab. Scott says, yay, Martin, and

41:16

then hashtag go podcasting.

41:20

Now there's a little, there's a little jingle that normally goes with this,

41:22

which goes, go podcast.

41:25

But we don't have that

41:25

drink aisle 16,000 sets.

41:28

That's a lot. He then sent another

41:29

one 16,400 SATs saying

41:33

boost, which is very good.

41:35

Drab. Thank you so much, Mary Oscar

41:36

from fountain using the new

41:40

Boostgram feature in fountains

41:40

has another great episode.

41:44

Thanks, James and Sam C

41:44

calling you in the right name.

41:47

Which is a lovely thing. And have you any idea what

41:49

the last one is all about?

41:51

Nick? Totally agree with your point? no, but thanks for

41:53

the SATs, Nick, 495.

41:56

Yeah. So I totally agree

41:56

with my point too. So thank you for the 495

41:59

sets sent through fountain.

42:02

I have a feeling that's Nick who's in charge of phones. Or maybe not, maybe it's

42:04

just a different neck.

42:07

we'll find out cause

42:07

we've got Oscar coming on to

42:09

the show in a couple of weeks

42:10

time. So if you want to get a

42:10

message through to booster Graham corner, hit the boost

42:12

button and send us a message.

42:15

And if you don't have a boost

42:15

button in your podcast app, get

42:18

a [email protected].

42:22

And just in case you're keeping

42:22

count of all of this so far.

42:25

We have earned from this

42:25

podcast 298,299 SATs.

42:31

That's about 132 us dollars.

42:34

it's, it's still small beans

42:34

in the great scheme of things,

42:37

but that's still rather a lot

42:37

more than I was expecting.

42:40

I think this is exciting. Personally, I like

42:41

having booster grams.

42:44

I'm looking forward to

42:44

being able to reply to them.

42:46

I'm looking forward to being

42:46

able to know exactly how

42:49

many sets people thought

42:49

that they were giving us,

42:51

because of course it's,

42:51

we're seeing numbers, which

42:54

are after some of the costs,

42:54

but, what a wonderful thing.

42:58

yes, it's a very good

42:58

thing as opposed to yes.

43:01

It's all part of Dave

43:01

and Adam's value for value.

43:03

If you want to find out more. Yes. Right now, too.

43:08

Boosting your audience, Evo

43:08

terrorists, trying a system

43:11

to boost the listening

43:11

audience of his podcast.

43:14

Pontifications, it's trying

43:14

to reach 10,000 listeners

43:17

and he calling Tana

43:17

Campbell's bluff basically.

43:21

Cause he's going to spend

43:21

$5 a day on Facebook ads.

43:24

And according to Tada,

43:24

if you do that, you'll

43:27

get a sizeable order. Isn't that just 1 0 1 marketing.

43:30

it is one-on-one

43:30

marketing in a way.

43:32

So Tana is a very outspoken

43:32

podcast consultant and he

43:38

is absolutely convinced that

43:38

spending $5 a day on Facebook

43:42

ads, you can get 10,000 new

43:42

listeners in just a year.

43:46

I think that's certainly

43:46

a point of view.

43:49

Evo is very clear in that he

43:49

says, I don't think it'll work.

43:54

but he's giving the $5

43:54

a day to Tana anyway.

43:58

And I think Tana is

43:58

probably regretting,

44:00

tweeting and blogging about

44:00

this particular thing.

44:03

But anyway, it will be really interesting to watch what happens there.

44:06

Tanner is already saying that I

44:06

don't promise the audience size.

44:10

10,000, but I promise that it's

44:10

significantly higher than the

44:14

existing audience size and he's

44:14

a bit derisive of iVOS podcasts.

44:18

So I think there's a

44:18

bunch of things that

44:20

we can learn from this. And I think it'll be really

44:22

interesting watching. Wow.

44:24

If it works for Eva, we could always join in con cashing.

44:28

Our SATs take our $132

44:28

and we get 26 days of

44:32

Facebook ads indeed. And maybe we should

44:33

reinvest into the company.

44:37

Not that there is a company. Maybe we should reinvest

44:38

into the partnership and

44:42

see what we can do there. Yeah.

44:43

I don't think so. I'd rather have the Porter

44:44

bay, if you don't mind.

44:46

even though you don't know what it is.

44:48

it sounds better than wasting the $5 a day on Facebook as certain.

44:52

Yeah.

44:53

James. So what else has happened for you in pod

44:55

land this week? so I was on the panel

44:55

town podcast recorded for

44:59

it last Friday morning. which was great fun.

45:02

Looking forward to that

45:02

podcast when it comes out, LZ

45:05

D Flinor the third Vermeer.

45:08

Pod town, recorded

45:08

that was great.

45:10

Fun, really enjoyed doing that. It's the first podcast that I've

45:12

been on, where you are asked

45:16

random trivia questions, which

45:16

I didn't do very well with.

45:19

but your eyes, random trivia questions and all kinds of things have very

45:21

much enjoyed doing that. Watch out for the pod town

45:23

podcast, when that comes out.

45:27

And I was also on another

45:27

podcast this week, which again

45:31

is going to come out, soon. Or that podcast was the mosaic

45:33

life podcast, which was great.

45:37

Trey Kaufman, interviewed

45:37

me a couple of days

45:40

ago that is coming out,

45:40

towards the end of August.

45:44

So again, worthwhile

45:44

having look at that.

45:47

So very much enjoyed

45:47

taking part on these shows.

45:50

They're very different. So you, Sam are talking

45:51

to lots of footballers

45:54

for the old spice boys. Are you doing any

45:56

other exciting.

45:58

no, I think I've got my head down with that one. Oh, obviously I'm going to be

46:00

trying to push the YouTube live

46:02

today and just see how that

46:02

whole work thing works for us.

46:05

but we have got Gary line

46:05

acre as he was once called

46:08

by Mike Shannon, if that

46:08

means anything to anyone.

46:11

so Gary Lineker is the

46:11

BBC's highest paid.

46:15

Presenter he's played, I

46:15

think 4 million pounds a year.

46:19

he's decided that he's going

46:19

to Jack it all in and go

46:21

around the world with his

46:21

sons for a year or something.

46:24

but he's coming on the podcast

46:24

in a couple of weeks time.

46:26

So I'm looking

46:26

forward to that one. Very nice. He also sells crisps in the UK

46:27

for a company called walkers,

46:31

which is the same company as In the U S and

46:32

Smith's in Australia.

46:35

So there you go. Crisp trivia or

46:37

indeed chip trivia.

46:39

Of course, if you're in

46:39

the us or in Australia.

46:43

so there you go,

46:43

language trivia, and

46:45

that's it for this week. Come back to Portland next time.

46:48

Follow us in your podcast app

46:48

or we're at www dot Podland

46:53

dot news on the web are

46:55

about eight. eventually. Now, if you have any comments

46:57

or questions or you'd like

47:00

to talk about stuff on this

47:00

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47:04

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47:05

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47:11

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47:14

And that's where you'll find all

47:14

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47:16

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47:17

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47:19

Brian Barletta earlier. Don't forget. Ascribe to him too.

47:23

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47:25

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47:37

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