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up, Point Forward listeners? Welcome to

1:01

another special Friday episode where we highlight the business

1:03

side of sports and culture. Don't

1:06

forget, we are giving out free

1:08

game every Wednesday and Friday, so

1:10

follow at Point Forward and subscribe

1:12

to the pod wherever you get

1:14

your podcasts. After seeing the Stars

1:16

of the G League ball out this weekend during

1:18

the Rising Stars game, we weigh in on

1:20

the business side of the G League. Lastly,

1:24

we had an amazing opportunity to sit down with

1:26

our friends at the Earn Your Leisure Podcast

1:28

and speak with students from the

1:31

Wharton School of Business at the

1:33

University of Pennsylvania during their

1:35

50th annual Whitney M. Young.

1:37

Shout out to Whitney Young in Chicago

1:39

and its conference. Point

1:43

Forward. This is Andra Iguodala. This is Evan

1:45

Turner. We're trying to get to the true

1:47

essence of not just basketball, but life, and

1:49

that means something, something, something. It

1:52

is like a finger pointing away to

1:54

the moon. Don't

1:57

concentrate on the finger or you will

1:59

miss it. Miss all that heavenly

2:01

glory. That

2:03

level of understanding has

2:06

been taken out of the game. Last

2:10

weekend, we had the chance to see the NBA's future

2:12

through the Rising Stars Challenge. Team

2:15

Detlef, which is my man Detlef Shrimp,

2:17

was filled with G. Lee Stars, future-type

2:20

NBA draft picks. Matas

2:22

Buzilis and Ron Holland, along

2:24

with two-time NBA dunk champ

2:26

Mac McClung. They also upset

2:28

Team Powell, as

2:30

in Powell Gasol, that consisted of

2:33

Wimpy, Jaime Hotkes Jr., Brandon Miller,

2:35

and Jabari Smith. With

2:37

this showing, how do we continue to grow

2:40

and utilize the G League to become a

2:42

better farm system to the NBA? Point forward.

2:45

How should we structure our

2:48

G League? Are

2:50

the teams overseas competing

2:54

with the G League? Are they taking

2:56

our talent? But at the same time, we

2:58

do need veterans on our G League teams.

3:01

I do think there should be an exemption

3:03

where you get a guy who's finishing his

3:05

career. And

3:07

you give a mill just to go

3:10

down there and travel. Right, right. Like,

3:12

Mo Harco, Mo Harco is down there.

3:14

Norris Cole, I saw was down there.

3:16

Shout-out to Poojeter, Alfred Payne, Poojeter. Some

3:19

of those dudes won so much, the fact that they're

3:21

at the G League or whatever. Not saying, because I

3:23

looked at Alfred Payne. I'm like, come on, bro. Too

3:25

much work to be coming in here. And

3:28

he's on that same thing. We need to go

3:30

down there and be like, yo, you get an

3:32

exception or something for a year and call it.

3:34

You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. But even

3:36

as just that helping the guys

3:39

down there form a

3:41

real sense of what are we

3:43

missing down here that will

3:45

help us prepare to go up. But

3:48

at the same time, how many players in

3:51

the G are actually good enough to be

3:53

in the league? I do think there's. But

3:56

no, you got two-way guys who right there. I

3:58

know. This is all I have. I'm saying and

4:00

this was somebody said before they said, bro, this is

4:02

it. Rod Thorne told me this, this is an MBA.

4:05

I mean, you told me it's like 10 years ago.

4:07

So there's no big men out there. I'm not telling

4:09

you this to tell you this. We look all around

4:11

the world. It's very

4:13

rare. You just flip through our hands. So when

4:15

they put on like two way in this and

4:17

a third, that's

4:20

what they know. The dudes that left and

4:22

went overseas, they know enough. There wasn't just

4:24

by chance and everybody in

4:26

mama's a scout. So

4:28

like, we got out of the understand family.

4:31

No, they're doing the scout now. Yeah.

4:33

So like when you sit there and we're getting the

4:35

shots. Literally

4:39

given up jobs and he just been at the crib. Nobody

4:41

even knows what they're talking about. But what

4:43

I'm saying is like the two way dudes are the

4:45

G League guys that can make it. It's

4:48

already been marked. Wonder why

4:50

and then rest of the dudes are down there. They've

4:53

been evaluating how many other times they did

4:55

48 workouts. Then

4:58

they went to summer league. Like, you understand? Like, you can't make

5:00

me laugh. No,

5:02

but it's true. And then when you see

5:04

me looking to be like, bro, don't you

5:06

all are playing yourself now because y'all got

5:08

a when I went to go get

5:10

drafted. I did one workout. I'll

5:13

be here. No, but listen, this is what

5:15

I'm saying. I'm not trying to say that to you.

5:17

Like flex. I'm saying not to anyone else. No. Yeah.

5:20

But then. All right. Now everybody else probably did

5:22

150 workouts and then going to 150 different doors

5:24

and got real

5:26

answers or real reservations. So when I'll be sitting

5:28

here, I'm like, you did not

5:31

make it to the league. Cause it's a shoulder shrug.

5:33

You're not making it to the league because you did

5:35

not good or you're not being aware of what they're

5:37

telling you. How do you not know what you're not

5:39

doing now at any level? No,

5:42

you're right. No, you're right. And that's why I want to have

5:44

like a deeper dive into this because, you

5:46

know, in my role as the executive

5:48

director, you know, next

5:50

gen, which is our G leagues union,

5:53

uh, is rolled up. It's like with us. And so how do we

5:55

support it? You know, uh, all the guys,

5:57

some of the guys, like the guys that we know. can

6:00

play in the league, how many guys are that and

6:02

that sit in that vein. And so it's an interesting

6:04

conversation, but we want to support the whole thing. Obviously,

6:06

it's a part of the product. It's a part of

6:08

the actual NBA. They own the G League. And so

6:10

we are a partner there. So how can we support

6:12

it as best as possible to prepare some of our

6:14

younger guys? Because we have had

6:16

that conversation where we're struggling in the league.

6:18

Our bottom is too low. How do we

6:21

raise it? And can we, you know, and

6:23

then it could be used as research and development as

6:25

well. R&D, we talk about that all the time. And,

6:28

you know, testing out rules, you know, testing out how

6:30

the game could be officiated or how could be played,

6:32

you know, one free throw as opposed to two, you

6:35

know, all the new rules that

6:37

we try to throw in there. Yeah, but this is all

6:39

we did, Dre. You want to know what we did that

6:41

they won't tell you? What we did. We built the league

6:43

for them. So

6:46

it's consistent two-way players to go down

6:48

an average 30 versus former

6:51

all-conference players and other

6:53

professionals while they figure out

6:55

and clear shit out the way. Yeah,

6:57

we built the league for you to keep you

6:59

entertained and keep your shit right. So when you're

7:01

breaking it down, I'm talking about the G-League shit.

7:04

It's like, no, man. The

7:06

same way when you might be,

7:08

it might be Santa Cruz warriors and they have

7:10

a whole team and they're doing this and a

7:12

third of Wesley Saunders as a go-to. When they

7:14

send Jonathan Dominguez down, all that shit

7:16

is done. When they send Lester

7:18

Keownis down, it's strictly for him.

7:21

They tell the players, hey, he'll be down here

7:23

for a week and a half. The coach is

7:25

called down. I was like, why ain't that shooting

7:28

more? And then what happens? You go and get

7:30

your reps. That's why I'm telling people who

7:32

are in the G-League and you read it. It's like,

7:34

no, man. I'm telling

7:36

you, it's because when I was in the NBA,

7:38

I was like, I'm just part of the cast.

7:40

This is a Warriors Cavaliers movie. We're

7:43

just here to fill in roles. Read

7:46

the signs. That's all I'm

7:48

saying. Put

7:51

this elsewhere and send it to the little

7:53

homie to put it at the G-League team

7:55

because they did not make a mistake.

7:57

I don't even want to do that. Let's switch,

7:59

bro. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

8:02

You didn't have a 10 or

8:04

two way in the league and

8:06

you didn't get drafted and

8:09

you didn't get time in pre-season

8:11

or summer league and you still in the

8:13

g. I hope you got

8:15

a degree. Now that's

8:17

crazy bro. No,

8:19

there's an out ended on this. I

8:24

find it beautiful. I find

8:26

it beautiful that

8:29

guys love the game that

8:31

will do whatever it like. We

8:33

have friends where we grew up or where we're from

8:36

who will play basketball for free and

8:39

they just want to play basketball. And

8:41

this is called the Walt Frazier effect

8:43

where and this is not a knock. I hope

8:45

this is not a knock. But the

8:47

Walt Frazier effect is those guys

8:49

who they carry themselves

8:53

as their ultimate life self. And

8:55

when I say ultimate life self, people

8:57

who live and their peak

8:59

self. And so

9:01

when I see Walt Frazier and

9:04

his wardrobe is

9:07

what his ultimate wardrobe when he

9:09

was his ultimate self

9:12

as a player when he was with the Knicks.

9:14

So you see the snakeskin suits, you know, you see the

9:16

peacock suits and then the Rose all the way to MJ

9:18

who won't get out of them big bag of jeans with

9:20

the bag of jeans are coming back to tailor bag of

9:22

jeans. And so he just never left that mode of his

9:25

ultimate self. And so those guys

9:27

those guys in the G League that they may not

9:29

be good enough like you're saying, but

9:31

they're still playing basketball and

9:33

they are a part of

9:35

the flywheel that just keeps this thing

9:37

going. But I'm thinking from

9:39

a business situation once you hit the league and you

9:41

leave college, this is business. Like

9:45

you sit there and it's like, yo, I want

9:47

to stay in Boston for forever. But Boston is

9:49

only going to pay me so much to

9:51

go to Portland. They're going to

9:53

pay me however much per whatever for

9:56

the sake of this little time that I can use to

9:58

make money. I'm

10:01

gonna have to do what makes the best

10:03

decision as a basketball player and as a

10:05

businessman. So you're sitting there and

10:07

it's like, I just want to play local to

10:10

play local and do this and a third. I'd

10:12

be like rock out, but if you're coming down

10:14

as a business and it's not working out, there's

10:16

more money to make overseas.

10:19

That's my only thing. And also implement and get

10:22

your game off even more, not come down. And

10:24

I'm just sitting here and being like, yo, imagine

10:26

working this hard and it don't matter because once

10:28

they send some 19 year old down, he's going

10:30

to shoot every shot for a

10:32

week and a half and then he's going to

10:34

get sent back up. So that means what they

10:36

haven't looked at me once. I

10:38

mean, you're just a part of the cast, like you

10:40

say, and some guys aren't built to play overseas and

10:42

you know, overseas, you have to have more of a

10:45

basketball skill set. I will say that. And that's something

10:47

that's been bothering me about our game a little bit

10:49

is that you can be one dimensional now, uh, more

10:51

than any other era as opposed to other

10:53

areas. You, I think you had to have more of a skill

10:55

set. Like now is just, you'd

10:57

be, if you're able to shoot from 40 feet, then

10:59

you, you know, you get a pass on all your,

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11:35

Hey there it's baton orlander with the

11:37

CBS sports ion college basketball podcast. And

11:39

yes, we are in the thick of

11:41

the college hoop season. Our pod runs

11:43

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11:45

covers everything you need to know from

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11:49

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11:51

previews, huge recaps, everything. We cover it

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all. To find us search I on

11:55

college basketball podcast wherever you get your

11:57

pods. Yeah,

12:02

I just feel like I joked about like

12:04

the donation thing, but I'm

12:06

glad we boosted the

12:09

G lead like pay in

12:12

general because it was kind of crazy they

12:14

had to decide so much in between going

12:16

overseas, which was something that wasn't comfortable with

12:19

or taking like $1,000 per

12:21

month to chase their dream. Yeah,

12:23

it's also supplying demand in marketplace with

12:25

the job. Sometimes

12:28

when you look at like you

12:30

go to Europe and some of the rules

12:32

they make you when they're like, Oh, only

12:34

Americans who play twice a week in this

12:36

and a third, I almost want to be

12:38

like, okay, if they're setting it stacking the

12:40

stage there, it's our responsibility in

12:42

favor for their locals. It's our

12:45

responsibility here to at least do the same

12:47

thing. Yeah,

12:49

yes, but do you understand that? And

12:53

when we talk about what could be better or this at

12:55

a third of my art, but it shouldn't be G leaguers

12:57

like that. I don't know how much the average human mate,

12:59

but in this certain instance, whatever else it's

13:01

off to say because they might not know what to act with

13:04

it, but like closer to a

13:06

hundred or like higher to this than a

13:08

third, but there's, and that sounds crazy. I'm

13:10

just saying like there's certain levels to really

13:12

take care of our guys. Just like they

13:15

do overseas because when they come across the

13:17

wall, who's your guy

13:19

overseas that's killing Mike. You played for the nets.

13:21

Katie with the go scene. Mike

13:23

James. What was his name? That's it. But

13:26

Mike James, there we go. Because that was

13:28

a different level. Like Mike James is one of them

13:30

dudes that I'll walk around and do interviews. Like it's

13:32

crazy. He's not in the league. So

13:34

when it came down to, I'm talking to Mike

13:37

James to govern yourself. We're the same

13:39

age, right? When we went to all American

13:41

camps, you weren't there. When

13:43

we went to college, you

13:45

weren't no all American camps. You weren't

13:48

no combine. We go to

13:50

summer league. You had, I'm not knocking it, but

13:52

you had your chance. And then when he comes

13:54

overseas, he realizes he can't

13:56

do it. He like comes to the league

13:58

and runs right back. You sit chirping

14:00

and talking crazy about like, stuff and all these

14:03

other dudes. And it's like, you're a small fry. Just

14:05

cause Katie put you in his back pocket.

14:08

Don't mean you speak now. You came over

14:10

here and you realize this, this is for

14:12

five, nine and taller. Point

14:15

forward. Recently, we were honored

14:17

to be invited to speak at

14:20

the warden schools, African-American MBA association

14:22

50th anniversary of the Whitney M.

14:24

Young conference. We were

14:26

joined alongside our friends at the earn your

14:28

leisure podcast. We're shop allow and

14:30

Troy millings. While I felt it was a

14:33

great opportunity to speak in front of

14:35

future, like future leaders from our community.

14:38

I think it's very rare, you know, similar to the

14:40

all-star game where you get that much talent in one

14:42

place, have an opportunity to

14:44

speak to them and letting them know

14:47

that there are avenues and doors

14:49

that we've actually created that we can

14:51

help them get through and build with

14:53

them. That's the thing that I

14:55

was most excited about. Um, and then just getting them to

14:57

see, you know, I think there

15:00

are things that we never

15:02

get access to, not just, you

15:04

know, uh, financial avenues,

15:06

but also just knowledge or game

15:08

on how to navigate through

15:10

the world of, uh, scarcity of that

15:12

knowledge, you know, they never want to give us the game.

15:14

And I think that's what we represent at point for it.

15:17

Um, and so being able to speak to them on

15:19

a few things, such as, you know, why I chose

15:21

going to stay for less money over a sack, uh,

15:23

in that period of time, you know, I don't

15:25

know if I would do it again, but in hindsight 2020, but it worked

15:28

out, um, because it gave me an

15:30

opportunity to, um, you know,

15:32

build with some of the top tech firms, build with

15:34

some of the top, um, entrepreneurs

15:37

in the world, you know, this is the hotbed

15:39

of it all and to, uh,

15:42

use my brand on the court and,

15:44

you know, leverage it off the court to build a brand was

15:46

just a beautiful thing, a beautiful opportunity.

15:49

You know, I didn't know

15:51

what would pan out the way it did, but it

15:53

worked out. And so it was just an, um,

15:56

amazing experience. And then also, you know, I spoke

15:58

towards, you know, Nigeria's

16:01

infrastructure. And when I

16:03

was speaking, I was there, you

16:05

know, there weren't the opportunities for

16:07

Nigeria to export their own oil.

16:11

And now that's in place. And it was just a

16:13

beautiful thing to see where just recently, 2019, it wasn't

16:15

there, but now it's

16:18

being built where Elico Dangote's

16:20

has pushed to use wealth to

16:22

build Nigeria's infrastructure and giving

16:26

them the opportunity to export

16:28

their oil or exporting their

16:30

oil and importing their gas. And now

16:32

that's being changed and we're going in

16:34

the right direction. But just exploring that

16:36

and having those conversations that we've never

16:39

had before about, you know, just the

16:41

global economy and where we come from

16:43

and how all the resources come

16:45

from one place. It was

16:47

just something I was really excited to be talking

16:49

about. Point forward. All right. So

16:52

let's get into it. You guys want to say anything before we

16:54

start? I'm

16:57

just in the presence of greatness.

16:59

So yeah, no, no.

17:03

Thank you all. That's all. Just thank you all for

17:05

allowing us to be here. We want to have a

17:07

great conversation. Hopefully you take something from this. But most

17:09

importantly, I know

17:11

we say this a lot and it sounds cliche. Let's

17:15

all connect. So let's get into it all. I

17:17

know we're going to, you know, ask each other

17:19

questions, but I want to ask you guys a question. How

17:23

did this partnership come together? You guys obviously

17:25

played in the league and that's

17:27

a brotherhood. But now you have

17:29

a different brotherhood in business and then,

17:31

you know, new age

17:33

media communication. So how did

17:36

this partnership come together with you guys? Well,

17:39

I mean, he's a great storyteller in

17:41

terms of like how we actually met. And

17:45

so I'll do Tarantino style. I'll

17:47

go later and then he'll go back in time. But

17:50

essentially, you know, with the media part,

17:53

you know, we have such

17:56

similar, you know, viewpoints

17:58

of the world. the things we see, but

18:01

I think we speak to it differently. I mean, I

18:03

think it's communicated

18:06

to the masses. You

18:08

know, I have, you know, the

18:12

folks that I can speak to, and then he has the folks

18:14

that he can speak to, and we feel like we

18:16

can cover a lot

18:18

of ground. But what we were seeing

18:20

is just only your own IP and

18:23

understanding the power behind

18:25

it. You know, growing up, I think

18:27

all we had was Bob

18:29

Johnson and BET. And

18:32

there's been a lot of conversations behind that

18:34

in terms of, you

18:37

know, Jay-Z's doing it now. You know,

18:39

we're building up our own properties. You

18:43

know, we're talking about Rihanna and Fenty outside.

18:45

We're talking about a lot of NBA

18:47

athletes with underwear lines. We're

18:50

talking about the Skims deal with the NBA. And

18:52

I've had a lot of conversation. We can talk

18:54

about this later in terms of what

18:56

do we do with those properties once we build them

18:58

up? Because there's a lot of, the

19:03

feedback can be negative sometimes if we sell it.

19:06

But then I also heard, isn't

19:08

that the purpose? To IPO? And

19:11

I think you've done an incredible

19:13

job of enlightening your

19:15

listeners, which is our community,

19:18

in terms of participating in public

19:20

companies. So, yes, we

19:22

should go out and reap the fruits of our

19:24

labor in terms of what we're building. But when

19:27

we do go public, like our people can participate,

19:30

and that's how you sell it. You know,

19:32

and so there's not that negative connotation from

19:34

behind it, coming from that. And so with

19:36

us too, we have conversations like this all

19:38

the time. And that's why

19:40

we chose to go out and as you

19:43

know, I have a deal with ESPN and

19:45

ETs had deals that he's done in the

19:47

media space. And so

19:49

we can use those platforms to leverage

19:52

to raise our profile. But

19:54

then we have our own property that we can

19:56

go out and we can try to scale and

19:58

go deeper into conversations and

20:00

to our listeners and kind of give them

20:02

some insights on our minds

20:05

and how we got to where we

20:07

are having success not just on the

20:09

court but off the court. Just

20:11

to go further into that you know myself and

20:14

Jerry we met right back in 2009 so he

20:16

was in a league I was getting ready to

20:18

go into my last

20:20

year of college and join a league so

20:22

when I walked into the gym at in

20:24

Chicago we were able to you know

20:26

join a make a friendship a year later I get

20:29

drafted to the six years I was his rookie and

20:31

you know he was a

20:34

vet to me so we kind of had our

20:36

ups and downs as a

20:38

very very kind of that rookie and you

20:40

know our first five or six

20:42

months was kind of rocky but eventually we

20:44

realized we were kind of the same individual

20:46

the same mindset and I think that's where

20:48

the friendship grew so once he left Philly

20:51

and we went through our career we stayed connected

20:53

and stayed locked and over time I got offers

20:55

for different media outlets and

20:57

different shows but I really just took my

20:59

time to really try to

21:02

formulate it and make it the most organic and

21:04

I think the number one thing is trying to

21:06

find people who you relate to and most importantly

21:08

who support you and that's how point

21:10

four started and you know

21:12

just for myself after being in Philly such a

21:15

tough media market one thing

21:17

that I really put priority on is

21:20

getting my own story out there and telling

21:22

my own narrative and you know telling the

21:24

narrative from the athlete that someone gets mixed

21:26

up from the best people ever met were

21:28

in an MBA and some of the smartest people I've ever

21:30

met were in an MBA and to

21:32

reach that feet is no small task and

21:35

I think to tell that story from

21:38

you know you know

21:40

super you know super accomplished individual

21:43

like Dre or you know seeing

21:45

things like myself really you know open up

21:47

the market and spread a narrative for what

21:50

athletes can be you know three years ago

21:52

when we started it was a small conversation

21:54

to the point now we're meeting with billionaires

21:56

and some of the top people and you

21:58

know breaking award and talking to

22:00

the future minds. So it's been

22:03

a cool thing and it's been fun. Hey,

22:08

John Glenn Hill here, host of the weeds.

22:11

And I hope you'll join me

22:13

at the 8th Annual On Air

22:15

Fest Audio Storytelling Festival. It's

22:18

February 28th through March 1st at the

22:20

Weights Hotel in Brooklyn. On

22:22

Air Fest includes podcast creators and taste

22:24

makers like Avery Truffleman, Tanya

22:27

Mosley, Sarah Koenig, Malcolm Gladwell,

22:29

Nora Jones, Seth Meyers, and

22:32

more. Plus, all

22:34

being conversation about podcasting in an election

22:36

year, alongside Estette Herndon of

22:38

The Run-Up and Kate Shaw of the

22:40

Strict Scroops Podcast. Don't

22:43

miss what Fos Company calls the

22:45

Coachella of Podcasts, with multiple days

22:48

of live performances, parties, and,

22:50

of course, podcasts. If

22:52

you are a true podcast nerd like me,

22:54

it's sure to be a great time. That's

22:57

February 28th through March 1st at the Weights

22:59

Hotel in Brooklyn. You can

23:01

find tickets at onairfest.com. See

23:04

you there! That's

23:22

pretty dope. I've always wanted this because where

23:24

you land in the league is important. Obviously,

23:45

you got to start in Philly. But branding

23:48

is something that has shifted a little bit, right? When

23:50

you came into the league out of Arizona, you got

23:52

to Ohio State, there wasn't a focus

23:54

on making the individual the star. We

23:58

had a few stars, and brands got behind it. but

24:00

everybody didn't have their own individual situation.

24:02

So I wonder, where did that

24:05

shift for you guys, right? Was it the

24:07

move to go to state where now you're

24:09

in an area, Silicon Valley in particular, where

24:11

the conversation outside of basketball is happening and

24:14

you're privy to it and now starting to

24:16

take that information and applying it? And did

24:18

that relationship with him continue? Right now, you're

24:21

learning things, but you're not on the same

24:23

team. Hey, let me put you up on

24:25

some game. No, for

24:27

sure. It's interesting now, these, I think

24:30

they're too young, putting

24:33

their brands together. I think you

24:35

need to show your

24:37

excellence on the court first,

24:40

and that's where you really establish yourself.

24:42

I think it's the inverse

24:45

effect that's happened where you got a kid with

24:47

a brand, and I'm like, well, wait, why

24:49

do you have a brand? Oh, you play basketball.

24:53

As opposed to, he's one

24:55

of the best at what he does, and I

24:57

think as we've, technology's gotten

24:59

better, and with making

25:01

sports more valuable is you can get closer

25:04

to the athlete than ever, and

25:06

that actual individual athlete is

25:09

B2C, where

25:11

I can actually touch my fans.

25:13

Like, I can get close to them. Like, they can

25:15

see me. And before was only your

25:17

superstars. We call them your signature guys who had

25:19

their own shoes. Well, now we

25:21

were just talking about a guy in the back who was

25:23

at the all-white party, but

25:26

he's making his presence felt, and

25:28

people identify him, although he may not

25:30

be a, you know, household

25:33

name. And so even if you're

25:35

the ninth man on the team, you

25:38

still can have a brand, but you can

25:40

make yourself the best ninth man in the

25:42

NBA. Like, make your presence

25:44

on the court first, and

25:46

I think that's where it's changed as time

25:48

has gone on, and I had

25:51

the, I was fortunate enough to have the same agent

25:53

as Kobe Bryant, so I was able to see how

25:55

Kobe was moving, and so that's what led me to

25:57

understand, like, all right, I got to do it on

25:59

the court. court first, doing it on the court first. But

26:02

now these kids are getting smarter. It's just they have

26:04

to make sure they take care of what they

26:06

have going on in the court. And going to

26:08

the Bay was amazing. But

26:10

my business partner, Rudy, who's in here right now, we

26:14

were talking about Silicon Valley years

26:16

before I got there. Just

26:19

didn't know that I would be there. But

26:21

when the opportunity came, that was

26:23

a part of the strategy. When I got in the

26:25

free agency, the Warriors didn't

26:27

have cap space. And I

26:29

actually had a meeting with them. And

26:32

I'll never forget, I had a meeting

26:34

with New Orleans. Sacramento

26:36

offered me an amazing deal. It

26:40

was damn near double the deal I took. Like

26:42

it was a lot. But

26:44

I had to sign it within

26:47

like five minutes. And

26:50

he was like, the owner was like, Andre,

26:52

you're the future. You're

26:54

King's 2.0. Incredible. I have a

26:56

great relationship with him. Because

26:59

the vision that I took to the Warriors, he actually

27:01

wanted me to bring that vision to the Kings. He

27:03

actually saw it. And I've never

27:05

spoken that. And he deserves a

27:07

lot of credit. He saw that. Like, listen, you're

27:09

the blueprint for what the NBA

27:11

player should be in terms of your business. Because he came from

27:13

the Warriors. So he saw it. But he

27:15

didn't know I had a meeting with the Warriors because the Warriors

27:17

had no cap space. But I actually set up

27:20

a meeting with the Warriors. They were like the fourth

27:22

team I met with that day. And

27:24

it was Mark Jackson, it was Joe Lake up, and

27:27

they had two execs in there. And they

27:30

said, Andre, we appreciate you inviting us

27:32

in. You know, just kind of

27:34

know why you wanted us to come in knowing that we don't have cap space.

27:37

And then I just broke down why I wanted to play for them. Like,

27:40

hey, like I see it in Steph Curry. I just

27:42

lost, we just lost to them. Like Steph wasn't Steph,

27:44

I see it. You got this kid I

27:46

had to guard named Clay Thompson. I never heard of this kid.

27:49

But this kid can shoot it like none other. I

27:53

didn't tell them that I had been following Silicon Valley, but

27:56

I said, it's some business things that I'm trying to figure

27:58

out. It was in the back of my mind. And they

28:01

were like, well, we appreciate it. And

28:03

we appreciate how you feel about our organization, but there's

28:05

nothing we can do. But

28:07

my agent and their GM who was there,

28:09

Bob Myers, they used to work together at

28:12

the same agency. Dwight

28:15

Howard was stalling one weekend. I

28:18

was going to sign with the Dallas Mavericks on

28:20

like a Friday. And Mark Cuban is called and

28:22

said, would Dwight Howard push back his decision to

28:25

Monday? So you got to wait. My

28:28

agent and the Warriors GM

28:30

figured out like a trade situation.

28:33

Richard Jefferson would go here. Two other players

28:35

go here, opens up cap space. We

28:38

can get it done. And then sometimes

28:40

it's like, you know, why do you believe in our power?

28:42

Like some things just work out for the reason they're

28:44

supposed to work out and boom, it

28:46

worked out crazy. And then, you know,

28:49

the rest is history. No,

28:51

you never know. You never know. Lead,

28:54

but in general. I want to fast forward

28:56

it a little bit. And, Dre, I know

28:58

obviously you want to talk about your role

29:00

with the NBA, but NBA, but I'm

29:03

interested to know your idea

29:05

and what the vision is for NBA

29:07

basketball and the content of Africa. Yeah.

29:11

Well, it's some interesting developments have happened

29:13

there recently. I know the head of

29:15

NBA Africa just

29:17

stepped down. And so, you

29:19

know, Africa is one of those. I

29:22

have to speak different now with the role I have. E.T.

29:28

has, Evan has, you know,

29:30

allowed me the ability to really express

29:32

myself. And he hates it when I'm

29:34

PC. But

29:36

I think he's starting to understand, you

29:39

know, the power of the voice, you

29:42

know, and that's why I

29:44

love him next to me because he can just speak. So,

29:50

Africa historically, not like the last

29:52

10, 20 years, I'm talking about history

29:54

of humanity in

29:57

terms of they have what 70? 80%

30:00

of the world's resources. And then how

30:02

it's been taken advantage of, the human capital,

30:04

how that's been taken advantage of. You

30:07

know, I was just listening to a speech not too

30:09

long ago, like how old is Nigeria in terms of

30:11

the actual nation? In the 60s? Yeah,

30:14

I think it's like 70s now. 70s, right. Still

30:17

a relatively young country, yeah. Very,

30:21

very, very young. Najiboy.

30:24

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

30:27

But Najiboy's here. Yes. Jado

30:30

Freisler lunch. And

30:33

yes, my father is Nigerian, Benin City,

30:36

a dope. And Africa

30:41

is one of the few, it's

30:44

a continent broken

30:47

up, but it's really, we look at it as a

30:49

country, us as African Americans. Like I

30:51

think of Africa, I don't think of it as countries,

30:53

I think of it as a bunch of states, but

30:55

it should be a country. And you

30:57

know, we're gonna talk about group economics.

31:00

Imagine if Africa had one

31:03

currency. But

31:05

now I can get in trouble if I say that. But

31:09

just understanding that, you know, the

31:11

complexities of Africa, even

31:13

Nigeria, 270 million people, oil

31:16

comes from there. You know, I had a

31:18

great understanding of Nigeria when I went 2019.

31:23

And the oil

31:25

that comes from Africa, but

31:27

they have no refineries. And

31:30

so they export their

31:32

oil and then they buy

31:34

back gas because they

31:36

don't have refineries, but they can

31:38

build the infrastructure with their wealth. But

31:42

that let me know everything I needed to know

31:44

in terms of, oh, I know exactly what's going

31:46

on. So with NBA

31:48

Africa, we're seeing a lot of talent

31:51

come from Africa, you know, Pascal

31:53

Siakam, Giannis is

31:55

Nigerian, Joel and B,

31:58

you know, we got MVPs now. And

32:01

the interesting thing is, they might

32:03

get mad at me, but

32:06

there's NBA Africa, NBA China, right?

32:11

But the players, we

32:14

only participate in the revenue from

32:16

NBA America. And

32:19

so there's some things that

32:21

need to be worked on from

32:25

that perspective, but that's something

32:27

that's like near and dear to me. So my eyes

32:29

are constantly on it. I sat on the board of

32:31

a publicly traded company that was

32:33

based in Africa, and

32:37

we had talks in terms of

32:39

sponsoring the NBA

32:41

Africa team. And then a

32:43

lot of players are involved. Muaw

32:45

Dang, close friend of mine, not

32:48

close enough. But I look up to

32:50

him in terms of what he's been able to build, the

32:52

portfolios being able to build, what he's

32:54

done with, what team did

32:56

he have? They made the Olympics. Sudan.

32:59

Sudan. I think it's South Sudan. Royal

33:02

Ivy. We had Royal Ivy, who was my

33:04

teammate here. He was the head coach. He's

33:08

doing some amazing things. Basketball,

33:11

but without borders. We

33:14

have a lot of players that participated in that

33:16

as kids in the NBA. And so

33:18

we're seeing, we talk about building

33:20

pipelines, right, we talk about giving out jobs.

33:24

And just controlling, or not controlling,

33:26

but raising your talent. And

33:28

so it's on my radar. And

33:31

we've been having a lot of conversations in terms of like, how

33:33

do you own a part

33:35

of the business that

33:37

you, you know, you are the

33:40

reason why the business exists. And

33:42

athletes have never been able to

33:44

participate in the value increase

33:46

of NBA teams. You talk about Gold

33:49

Store Phantom shares. I've had some interesting

33:52

conversations about that. I

33:54

like y'all, y'all making me reveal our whole life. But

33:57

seriously. You

34:01

guys talk about brands, you talk about Andre

34:03

or even a brand I was able to have

34:05

from the NBA. How did you guys again

34:07

restart your brand so now

34:09

you have festivals and

34:11

people following you all over the world?

34:13

1.4 million subscribers. Yeah, I mean that's

34:16

actually crazy. Y'all got it out of the

34:18

statement. Thank you. Appreciate it. I

34:23

mean the origin story really is formatted in

34:25

purpose, to be honest with you. His

34:28

career was as a financial advisor, I was a teacher.

34:32

We had an opportunity. Every summer I took

34:35

kids from my neighborhood and they were part of

34:37

his program. We were teaching them about the things

34:39

that they missed in the 10 months of school. So

34:41

everybody goes to school and they're like, I

34:44

don't remember anything, I didn't learn anything. You ask your kid, what did you learn today?

34:46

Nothing. And

34:48

so it was like, I felt very complicit in that. If

34:51

kids are going to school, I'm a teacher, they're learning nothing.

34:53

I'm not doing my job and I'm getting paid. So there

34:56

was an opportunity here, like we can educate

34:58

kids about financial literacy, about college,

35:00

about decisions that they were going to make

35:02

around money at 14, with the hopes that

35:04

if they got it at 14, they

35:06

would be more advanced by 19, 20, 25. And

35:09

so financial literacy was at the cost of

35:12

that. It was like, all right, we're

35:14

going to pay these kids to be in the program, let's teach

35:16

them about money. He had just started his career and advised them,

35:18

like this is perfect, you can come in. And so we started

35:20

co-teaching that. Like I learned about finance

35:22

from him. He learned how to have classroom management for

35:24

me, create lesson plans. And so we did that. In

35:27

my mind, the vision was,

35:30

I need to have this program throughout

35:32

New York first, right? Because parents would see it,

35:34

they're like, this is incredible, how do I scale this?

35:36

I can't figure it out, I can't figure it out.

35:39

He was always into social media. He was like, this

35:42

is how we do it. So he had our

35:44

COO up there right now, Abdul. He said,

35:47

look, shout out to Ab. He was like,

35:49

look, I want you to record the classrooms.

35:52

I was like, oh, okay, whatever. I'm still trying to

35:54

figure out how to scale this, like physically. He was

35:56

like, just keep recording the classroom. He was

35:58

huge on content, putting it up. And

36:01

that led to him creating his own

36:03

platform, right? He wanted to teach people

36:05

about finance in a different way,

36:07

right? Sometimes when we think about finance, it's

36:09

a foreign language, right? And we

36:12

were coming out like we were at the

36:14

snow. We were coming out like, let's break

36:16

the monotony of this stush feeling when it

36:18

came to financial education. Let's talk

36:20

it in our language. And so he was doing

36:22

that for multiple people, had his

36:24

own public assets show. I let

36:26

him tell his story. And then people like, wait, where's

36:29

the rest of that? We need more of that. Where's the

36:31

episode? And one day, it was like, look, want

36:33

to do a show? Let's do this podcast. We

36:36

sat in my basement. My basement was like, all right, let's do

36:38

it. And that's how Ernie

36:40

Leisure was burped. Really, we came up with the name

36:42

pretty quickly. He was already using it as a hashtag.

36:44

And from there, it was consistent. It was like, all

36:46

right, well, here's the vision. These

36:48

are the 10 things we need to do. Here are 10

36:50

people we want to interview. Let's just

36:53

go attack it. And really, it started with three

36:55

iPhones and that idea, and it branded into what

36:57

you see now. I

36:59

don't want to cut you off. I just want you to. Can

37:02

you explain to me what you took

37:04

from the public access and just explain to

37:06

me how that works within your story and

37:08

then how you knew how to maneuver into,

37:11

you know, subscribers streaming and all that and

37:13

the difference in the revenue streams and how

37:15

much is valued at? I

37:17

never went to business school, but I was always interested in

37:20

business my whole life. So I was studying

37:22

like real world case studies. So

37:26

in 2012, Instagram

37:28

was like fairly new. And

37:31

I got introduced to it. And like everybody else, I

37:33

was on the app all the time. And when I'm

37:35

first on Instagram, I'm just thinking like, this is a

37:37

cool app. You get to share photos at the time.

37:39

There was no videos at that time. It was just

37:41

for iPhone users. But I

37:43

quickly realized something in this situation.

37:46

So I used to follow this fashion blog

37:49

and the fashion blog had like a million followers at

37:51

that time. And at that time, if you had a

37:53

million followers, you could reach a million people. And

37:56

what I realized was that what

37:58

she was doing, the girl that actually she was running

38:01

a fashion vlog was that she would post like lookbooks

38:03

on like, you know, this actress wore

38:06

this and this singer wore this, but

38:08

in between the looks, she

38:10

would do like organic ads.

38:14

So it'd be like a small boutique in

38:16

Philly that had a blazer. And

38:18

you didn't really know it was an ad unless

38:20

she was actually really studying it. So

38:23

right then, I'm like, this

38:25

is crazy. Because how I

38:27

was looking at it was like, okay, how

38:30

many people subscribe to New York Times, probably

38:32

a million people in circulation

38:34

from New York Times every single day? And

38:38

how much money does it cost to

38:40

run an ad in the New York Times? $50,000,

38:44

how much money does it cost to run

38:46

an ad on NBC, ABC, millions

38:49

of dollars, right? But I'm thinking, I didn't

38:51

know, but I'm thinking to myself that they're

38:53

probably paying her $500,

38:56

$1,000, but they can reach just as many people

38:58

as all of these traditional outlets. So

39:01

then that's when I was like, okay,

39:04

advertising is going to change. This

39:06

is the new wave. So I actually

39:09

had a meeting with him. And I

39:11

was explaining this to him. And I was like, we need

39:13

to start a fashion vlog. And

39:15

we did. We started

39:17

a fashion vlog, it was called fashion wave. And

39:19

we actually got it to like 12,000 followers. But

39:21

that was the original point was like, social

39:24

media is something

39:26

that's going to take over the world. Most

39:29

people have no idea how they're actually using

39:31

it. They're just using it as consumers. But

39:34

there's a business behind this. This is before

39:36

influencer was even a word. This is before

39:38

you had to put ad, you could just

39:40

organically do it. That

39:42

didn't work out, but the idea was

39:45

still there. So the next

39:47

idea was, I was a financial advisor at

39:49

the time. So I

39:51

wanted to become a celebrity financial advisor.

39:53

That was my original goal. I wanted

39:56

to work with athletes entertainers because I

39:58

felt like I played basketball. for my whole

40:00

entire life. And I was looking

40:02

at the people that was representing athletes, and

40:05

I'm like, I know that they're not from

40:07

the culture. They're not listening

40:09

to the music. I know the music. I'm

40:11

listening to it. Why should they

40:13

get to work with these people? I

40:15

know I'm more qualified because I can actually sit

40:18

down and have a conversation. But

40:20

I didn't know anybody. I had no

40:22

inroads. I had no advanced degree.

40:25

And I didn't really have a way to

40:28

actually get my way into the door. So

40:31

the idea was to become a famous celebrity,

40:34

financial advisor, because I was looking at

40:36

the landscape and I'm like, okay, social

40:38

media has provided a platform for anybody

40:41

to become a celebrity, celebrity

40:43

chef, a celebrity trainer. Previously, you've only

40:45

become a celebrity if you was an

40:47

athlete or an entertainer. But now

40:49

you could be a celebrity anything. I'm like,

40:51

well, you may

40:53

be able to be a celebrity financial advisor.

40:56

Right? First of its kind. Anything

40:58

is possible, right? Anything

41:00

is possible. Just maybe. So

41:03

that's when all of the

41:05

content comes into play, right? Where it's

41:07

record everything. I'm mad we're not recording

41:10

this, but that's the number one rule in life is

41:12

to record everything because you never know. So

41:14

we record, we're

41:17

recording this, but you

41:20

gotta get the organic. You gotta

41:22

get the organic. Cell phone

41:24

footage, algorithm breaker. So

41:28

now it's like, okay, record the classroom,

41:31

record selfie videos, record

41:33

everything. So your question

41:35

about the public access show. The

41:39

number one rule in life is to cultivate

41:41

relationships. There's a lot of number one

41:43

rules in life, by the way. Just

41:48

so y'all know. Yeah. Three

41:50

more are coming. So you gotta cultivate, you

41:52

gotta cultivate, yes. You gotta

41:54

cultivate relationships. I

41:57

was like, okay. At

41:59

that time, I wanted to get in

42:01

front of all the top

42:03

real estate developers and

42:06

entrepreneurs and architects. These are people that have

42:08

made a lot of money and successful, but

42:10

nobody knows them. And what

42:12

I realized is that the number one rule in life

42:15

is that everybody wants to talk about themselves,

42:17

right? So I'm like, OK, if I can

42:19

provide a platform for somebody to talk about

42:21

themselves, then now that's actually a way for

42:23

me to build a relationship. So

42:27

I get offered a public access show. I

42:29

never looked at it as a public access show. I looked at it

42:31

as a TV show. And that's how I pitched it.

42:33

I would go to somebody and be like, you know, I have a

42:35

TV show. Do you want to be? Nobody's going to turn down and

42:37

be on a TV show, especially if they've never been on

42:40

TV. So what

42:42

that actually did was helped me to

42:44

sharpen my communication skills and

42:46

learn how to actually interview people, right?

42:49

So all of this is happening at the same time. We

42:52

have a relationship from growing up together and working in

42:54

the classroom, as he just described. And

42:56

my social media following is building at the time. So

42:59

when we start earning a leisure, the show, now

43:03

we have a lot of things working for

43:05

us, right? So when

43:09

we hit the ground, it's

43:11

like an explosion, because we

43:13

was able to actually provide

43:16

information in a very relatable manner. So

43:18

we're kind of like the latter to

43:20

the clouds. Thank

43:24

you, guys, so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank

43:29

you. Busy

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