0:03

Good morning everyone, I'm Playbook

0:05

co-author Ryan Lizza. It's Monday,

0:07

April 15th, and here's what's

0:09

driving the day. In the House,

0:11

Speaker Mike Johnson is planning to focus

0:14

on foreign policy this week. You'll remember

0:16

that actually the House was going to

0:18

do something called Appliance Week, but the

0:20

conflict in the Middle East has changed

0:22

that, and there will

0:24

be a series of votes on

0:27

Iran. That's what we know so

0:29

far. Obviously, the big question is

0:31

what his exact plan is for

0:33

votes on aid to Ukraine, Israel,

0:35

and Taiwan. That remained in flux

0:37

late last night with Fox reporting

0:39

that some details were still

0:41

being negotiated between the Speaker and

0:44

the White House. Over in the

0:46

Senate, Majority Leader Chuck Schumer is expected

0:49

to take up the House's recently passed

0:51

reauthorization of FISA, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance

0:53

Act. They'll do that

0:55

as early as tonight. The Senate

0:58

is still waiting on the House

1:00

to send over the Articles of

1:02

Impeachment against DHS Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas.

1:05

When they do so, the Senate will

1:07

swear in senators for the trial the

1:10

following day. We're told that the Articles

1:12

of Impeachment against Mayorkas and the necessity

1:14

to swear in the senators could

1:16

affect the FISA getting

1:19

wrapped up, but

1:21

both of those things are on the agenda in the

1:23

Senate early this week. Of course, the

1:25

biggest story of today is a

1:27

very different trial, the one starting

1:29

in Manhattan, where Donald Trump

1:31

is the first former president to

1:34

face a criminal prosecution. Joining

1:37

me now to talk more about that is

1:39

senior staff writer, Ankush Kardori. Good

1:42

morning, Ankush. Hi, Brian. Thanks for having

1:45

me. Thanks for being here. First day

1:47

of the trial, you have been writing about it quite

1:49

a bit. What do you have

1:51

your eye on as this trial

1:53

begins in Manhattan? Well,

1:55

as it gets underway, I'm actually going to be

1:58

more interested in what's happening outside the courtroom,

2:00

what kinds of protests we're seeing, what kind

2:02

of media presence we're seeing from conservative media

2:04

in particular, whether we're gonna see a bunch

2:07

of Trump supporters, whether we're gonna see some

2:09

Republican politicians out there. I'm gonna

2:11

be curious to see what we can

2:13

glean about Donald Trump's movements in and

2:15

out of the courtroom, whether he's gonna

2:17

be taking opportunities to speak or try

2:19

to communicate with the

2:21

media and sort of

2:24

the potentially circus-like atmosphere.

2:27

Inside the courtroom I think things may be

2:30

sort of a little... Take us inside there

2:32

in terms of what, this is sort of

2:34

unprecedented. You were, you worked in

2:36

the federal government so Manhattan's probably a

2:38

little bit different but what should the

2:40

non-lawyer know about what this is going

2:43

to look like inside? So on

2:45

the first day of a trial there can be some

2:48

delays and this is going to be a complicated case

2:50

with a lot of moving parts and security and all

2:52

that so we might see some delays but we're supposed

2:54

to see the start of vaudeville and

2:56

so that's the process by which the judge

2:59

enlists jurors and screens them to see who's going

3:01

to be selected. The judge is issued an order

3:04

about how that's going to look but that's really

3:06

going to be the thing that occupies the next

3:08

week or potentially a couple weeks. Tell us a

3:10

little bit about that. So Judge Juan Marchand last

3:12

week issued an order to both sides and it

3:15

sort of lays out the process of jury selection

3:17

if I've got that right? Yeah,

3:19

the judge issued an order last week.

3:21

It's publicly available. It's short and quite

3:23

interesting in which he describes... Yeah, tell

3:26

us about that. What's

3:28

interesting about it? The most interesting to

3:30

me because this is just something I'm

3:32

not intuitively familiar with was he has

3:34

decided to do away with one step

3:36

of the process that usually exists. Usually

3:39

jurors are first asked whether

3:42

they believe they cannot be

3:44

fair and impartial and

3:46

some people will say you know I don't think I can

3:48

be under the circumstances but then the judge will bring them

3:50

up and sort of ask them

3:53

some more specific questions, tell them about how a

3:55

trial really works and how facts and evidence instructions

3:57

from judges work. Judges can usually

3:59

bring people... around to the idea that, you know, I

4:01

actually can't sit on this jury. The judge is not

4:03

doing that this time. His order indicates

4:06

that they're doing away with those follow up interviews.

4:08

So in this case, it appears that anyone who

4:10

raises their hand and says they can't be fair

4:12

and impartial is going to be able to get

4:14

off the jury. Huh. So get out

4:16

of jail card for anyone who walks in there and doesn't

4:18

want to deal with this. Yeah,

4:20

and it's an interesting one in this case, because I

4:22

don't know who it helps. Usually,

4:25

you would expect people to want to get off a

4:27

jury, and we're probably going to see a lot of

4:29

that. And you would expect people to take up that

4:31

opportunity. In this case, there

4:33

might be some people who actually really want to get

4:36

on the jury. Also, like, who are the people who

4:38

are going to say that they're not fair and impartial?

4:40

I imagine a lot of Trump haters, who are probably

4:42

people the DA's office would secretly like to see on

4:44

the jury. There may be some very adamant Trump supporters,

4:46

even who say, you know, it's Trump, and he's, you

4:49

know, I would never find him guilty of crime

4:51

or something like that. That's going to get you

4:54

that would get you bounced and be a reason for you

4:56

to say that you can't be fair and impartial. So

4:59

like, I don't know which way it cuts.

5:01

How does the legal system think about and

5:03

how common is it to be able to

5:05

find 12 people that don't

5:08

actually know about the kind of stuff that

5:10

we obsess about all the time? Yeah,

5:12

I mean, this is going to

5:14

be obviously a much harder than average jury

5:17

selection, because it involves Donald Trump, he's the

5:19

president, right? But like, I have a lot

5:21

of confidence in our fellow. And I think

5:23

this judge is prepared potentially for this to

5:25

take a long time, and it may need

5:27

to take a long time. But

5:29

the other thing that like makes the order

5:33

interesting, that I just mentioned is, we

5:35

won't be able to see the jury selection process, but the

5:37

judge also released all the questions. What's which

5:39

questions tell us, which one struck you

5:42

as the most interesting? Well, I mean,

5:44

there are sort of typical ones

5:46

about media consumption, where you

5:48

work, so on and so forth. But then there's a

5:50

whole series of questions that

5:53

are kind of geared toward figuring

5:55

out if you're support Trump or not, or at

5:57

least are in that in that vein, for instance,

5:59

like Have you or a friend or

6:01

a relative ever worked for a company that's owned

6:03

by Trump? Have you ever considered yourself a supporter

6:05

of or belong to QAnon, Proud

6:08

Boys, Oath Coopers, 3%ers, Boogaloo Boys,

6:10

Antipita, Antipita? So right, so

6:12

these are all very unusual questions for

6:15

a voir dire process. But these are questions that

6:17

are going to be asked, including, have

6:19

you read or listened to audio of any of

6:22

the following books or podcasts by Michael Cohen or

6:24

Mark Pomerance, who's also sort of become a media

6:26

personality emanating from this case? And who knows, might

6:28

be a witness for all we know. I

6:30

think he might be, he might be a defense

6:33

witness. All right. And then finally, a

6:35

bigger picture question as we get

6:37

into the actual trial itself, we get beyond

6:39

jury selection. There is

6:42

this evidentiary mystery at the heart

6:44

of the case that you wrote

6:46

about recently, and that is how

6:49

Bragg connects the misdemeanor of

6:51

falsifying business records to

6:53

some other crime that turns

6:55

it into a felony.

6:58

And as you pointed out, we don't know what that

7:00

specific evidence is. Could you just explain

7:02

that? Yeah. So really

7:05

falsifying business records is a misdemeanor in

7:07

New York. I think Trump could plausibly

7:09

even just contest that part of it.

7:11

But the thing that makes it the

7:13

felony is again, the proposition or the

7:15

allegation that the business records were falsified

7:17

to aid or conceal another crime. And

7:19

the DA's office has outlined

7:21

a few different theories that concern campaign

7:23

finance violations and tax violations. Now, it

7:26

appears- We know what the crimes are. We initially didn't

7:28

even know that. We did not, that was

7:31

not clear out of the gate, but we

7:33

know. Out of the gate. But we know

7:35

it's tax and campaign finance. One question on

7:37

that. Is it possible that he

7:40

adds to that or at this point is he

7:42

locked into those two? Oh, I think he's locked

7:44

in. I mean, there was

7:46

actually a theory that the judge excluded

7:49

from them advancing in trial. So that's

7:51

been litigated before trial. But what are

7:53

the explanations out there in terms of

7:55

the evidence that we know about or

7:57

the witnesses where he closes that gap?

8:00

Yeah, well, I mean, there are just based

8:02

on public reporting, it appears that Michael Cohen,

8:04

right, would be key evidence on this point,

8:06

right? I mean, Cohen had discussions with Trump

8:08

about the payment, how this payment was going

8:10

to be structured and the indictment references some

8:12

of those discussions. So I imagine

8:15

Trump is Trump's statements

8:18

during those conversations will be offered through Cohen

8:20

to some extent. So that's one part of

8:22

that. If it's just Cohen, you know, that's

8:24

going to be a pretty significant point of

8:27

vulnerability to my mind, because of sort of

8:29

his, you know, history of lying

8:31

and his sort of motives, this sort of smear

8:33

Trump here, or at least arguable motives. But

8:36

there are potential other points of corroboration here,

8:38

right? There's

8:40

a witness list that indicates that Madeleine

8:42

Westerhout, who is a Trump White House aide,

8:46

may be called by the DA's office, and, you

8:48

know, maybe she's president for one of those meetings.

8:50

I mean, I hate to speculate, but that's what

8:52

goes through my mind. When I

8:54

hear that, it's like, okay, well, what reason would

8:56

this witness be on their list? Because you could

8:58

see a person like that being in a position

9:00

like that and being valuable to the government for

9:03

a reason like that. Lukas, thank you

9:05

so much for breaking that down. Excellent. Thanks for

9:07

having me. And

9:10

for your schedule today, the House and the Senate are in.

9:13

President Biden has two bilateral meetings today,

9:15

one with Prime Minister Mohammad Shia Al-Sudani

9:17

of Iraq, and one with

9:19

Prime Minister Peter Fiala of the Czech

9:22

Republic. I'm Ryan Lizza. Thanks for

9:24

listening.