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pod. Welcome

0:39

to Parker's your New York Times

0:41

Water Twenty Number Three Music News

0:44

and Criticism: I'm drawn Perlis. I'm

0:46

sitting in for John to remain

0:48

and today we are going to

0:51

talk about be wonderful new Vampire

0:53

Weekend record. Only God was above

0:55

us. I

0:58

have with me two Attorney:

1:01

Three. Petrusic,

1:04

Kids so. I have with

1:06

me to excellent critics Amanda Patrice

1:08

ich Stanford and from New Yorker.

1:11

Matthew. Strauss Deputy Managing editor of

1:13

Pitch for. All of us

1:15

have like plunged into. Vampire.

1:18

Weekend Lore. Gone

1:20

down the rabbit holes, In.

1:22

Probably have a lot of things we had to cut

1:24

out of our he views because there are two bunny

1:26

rabbit olds. So. Amanda, Let me ask

1:28

you first, what was your first reaction when you

1:30

heard the record? I'm very

1:33

happy to be here with you guys, by the

1:35

way. Excellent Vampire crew. Feels good. I

1:37

loved the record on First Listen. Vampire Weekend

1:39

for me is almost always like a very

1:42

urgent and immediate band. I don't think they're

1:44

necessarily a band that takes like multiple, like

1:46

it hits fast, which is part of the

1:49

thrill of them. I think that the songs

1:51

are really hooky. I liked

1:53

the kind of looseness of the writing here.

1:55

I thought the lyrics were incredibly incisive and

1:58

sharp and idiosyncratic. precise.

2:00

I immediately had a million stories in my head. I

2:02

had a million melodies in my head. So for me,

2:04

it worked really fast. Matthew's

2:06

fast acting? Yeah, I

2:08

really loved it. On my first listen, I listened

2:10

to it on a snowy day, just walking around

2:12

and it felt like I was able to go

2:14

back to everything that I had felt from their

2:16

past records. Like they had the

2:18

right amount of sentimentality, the right amount

2:21

of wit and everything. I

2:23

feel like what really sold it for

2:25

me on really loving the album on the first

2:27

listen was on a

2:30

song connect where he sings the chickens

2:32

in her bedroom. I immediately texted my

2:34

wife because we have a small flock

2:36

of chickens. I was like, this

2:39

is it. He's onto it again and nailing

2:41

another one. Chickens in

2:43

the bedroom. I still haven't figured out what he's

2:45

talking about there, but maybe you guys have the

2:47

decoder ring. For

2:50

me, it was like the demolition derby of noise. The

2:53

way songs just whipsawed and earthquakes

2:55

happen in the middle of them.

2:58

Yeah, maybe literally in the case of week

3:00

of release. I think we had an actual

3:02

earthquake the day, either the day this record came out

3:04

or the day before. I definitely

3:07

want to ascribe that to the

3:09

rhythm section. Yeah. It's funny

3:11

you say that too though, John. When I

3:13

first listened to it, I remember thinking this

3:16

record sounds to me significantly hazy

3:18

or noisier than what they've done in the past.

3:20

I found myself having to go back to listen to

3:22

the old records, to think if maybe I

3:24

was just misremembering the cleanness and the crispness

3:26

of some of the production on those tracks.

3:29

It turned out I wasn't. I do think this

3:31

is their noisiest album yet. Diane

3:33

Young is very noisy, but most of

3:35

the time, they're pretty undistorted.

3:38

Ezra kept talking in other interviews about

3:40

cousins being the spiritual

3:43

ancestor of the album. That's pretty

3:45

speedy and noisy too. My

4:07

favorite song by far is Connect, just

4:09

because all of the crazy piano stuff.

4:12

I was fascinated when they

4:14

played it in Austin and the

4:17

piano solo was still trying to play

4:19

two dissonant overlapping lines

4:21

that were clearly recorded separately

4:24

when the record was made. That

4:45

level of detail in their minds is one of

4:47

the most amazing things about Vampire

4:49

Weekend to me. I agree.

4:51

Matthew, one of the things I really appreciated in

4:54

your review was that you pointed out that

4:56

there's such a self-aware band, I think a very

4:59

thoughtful band. In some ways, this record, I can't

5:01

remember exactly the line that was in your piece,

5:03

but the record is sort of about Vampire

5:05

Weekend. It's the first Vampire Weekend record

5:07

about Vampire Weekend. Yeah. I

5:09

definitely felt that every time I listened to

5:12

the album, whether it was saying, oh, this

5:14

sounds just like that song or, oh, he

5:16

said this before. And

5:18

I think it's just an important way

5:21

for them to express growth because it's easy

5:23

to track the arc of their first three

5:25

albums from the joy of

5:27

the first one down to kind of

5:29

the surrounding all of Modern Vampires of the

5:31

City and then trying

5:34

to ignore that with Father of the

5:36

Bride, where it felt like with

5:38

that album, he was trying to make an album

5:40

that he would enjoy, but

5:42

that doesn't necessarily mean that it's an

5:44

album that he's incredible

5:46

at making. As much as I

5:48

enjoy that album, I think a lot of

5:51

fans would agree it's an outlier and it's

5:53

and has some of their weaker work on it. It

5:56

feels like the difference of someone

5:58

accepting who they are. are versus who

6:00

they want to be. Coming back

6:02

to this album really felt like accepting who they

6:05

are and fitting in who they

6:07

want to be into the album. There's

6:09

also the sense they're all turning 40 this year.

6:13

I think that is a

6:15

big milestone for them. They're reckoning

6:17

with being grownups. When

6:20

they started as college kids, 40

6:22

is young from my perspective, but they've

6:24

always been obsessed as both of you

6:27

wrote about with time, with generations,

6:29

with mortality. But

6:32

do you think it's more so on this album? I

6:34

do. This feels very much like

6:37

a midlife record to me. I

6:39

think maybe some of the musical softening

6:41

goes along with that too. Yeah.

6:44

I think there's a thread of optimism, a

6:47

thread of hopefulness in Ezra's lyrics on this

6:49

record that to me feels like something. The

6:52

older you get, the more you realize what you

6:54

can control and what you can't, what you can

6:56

change and what you can't. There is, I think,

6:59

a piece on the other side of that once

7:01

you stop trying to fix everything and realize, okay,

7:03

these are things I can manage. That idea feels

7:05

very present on this album to me. I think

7:08

that's a hard one idea and I think

7:10

that's something you get to maybe around age

7:12

40, late 30s, early 40s. There's

7:16

so much history in the album,

7:18

just the things that Ezra sings

7:20

about. It feels like he's

7:22

tried to situate himself in time and

7:24

not just in a moment in time.

7:27

I think they're very aware of where they sit in

7:29

a moment of time. I

7:32

think a lot of bands that might have

7:34

come out around the same time as them in the

7:36

late 2000s sound dated to that

7:38

era, close friends and collaborators like

7:40

Ra Ra Riot or the

7:43

Rostam spin-off band Discovery. It's

7:45

hard not to think of late 2000s, early

7:48

2010s and I think Vampire

7:50

Weekend's discography transcends that

7:52

datedness. I think with

7:54

this album, they're trying to situate

7:57

themselves in all of history instead of

7:59

just. saying we're going to make an album that sounds like 2024,

8:02

which I'm not sure at this point what 2024 sounds

8:05

like. Me neither. Neither is

8:07

Ezra because I asked him. He said it

8:09

was above his pay grade. One

8:11

thing I learned from Ariel Rechshade when I talked

8:13

to him about the album is that

8:16

he claimed that the

8:18

guitars on this album are all recorded

8:21

direct, guitar effect, digital

8:23

interface, no amps. He

8:26

said he'd been making albums with amplifiers

8:28

all these years, and that

8:30

the way he wanted rock to sound in 2024 was different.

8:34

I'm not sure he's strictly speaking correct

8:36

because ice cream piano starts

8:38

with amplifier hum. Yeah. But

8:41

maybe that's the one and only spot. But

8:43

I thought it was interesting that he

8:45

was bringing a technical spec to

8:49

the kind of sound he wanted. That's really interesting.

8:51

Something both of you have mentioned now is almost

8:54

the relative timelessness of this band. I

8:56

mean, to me, they've always felt a

8:58

little untethered from their time and place. They didn't sound

9:00

like anything else in 2006. I

9:03

don't think they sound like any other band now.

9:06

I think that's maybe why they're a bit divisive

9:08

too. I don't know if you guys have gotten

9:10

any gentle ribbing from your

9:13

friends for Riding Hard for Vampire Weekend.

9:15

I have. It sometimes feels like they're

9:17

almost an embarrassing band to like because

9:19

people dislike them so vehemently. But I've

9:21

always loved that they feel a little out

9:23

of step with everything that's going on around them.

9:25

It's always made them a really interesting band for

9:27

me in that way. I think you pulling out

9:29

that technical detail of just knowing how to hook

9:31

up the guitars or how

9:34

to record that is something that I'm

9:36

not sure how many bands are thinking

9:38

of it conceptually in that way. That

9:40

I think just the concept of their music has

9:42

always been important to them. It

9:45

even reminds me of, again,

9:47

a father of the bride of it's almost

9:49

like a distorted take on jam music. We're

9:51

going to plug it in and go and

9:53

see where it goes from there. Speaking

9:56

of jam music, they just recorded the

9:58

30-minute version. of Cape Cod

10:01

Quasa Quasa with Goose, which

10:03

I listened to this morning. But the

10:06

incredible level of self-consciousness

10:08

because their e-mail I think

10:10

is eight-minute Quasa. So now they've

10:12

recorded a 30-minute Quasa. Is

10:15

any band more self-conscious than this? Maybe

10:18

not. They're an incredibly self-aware

10:21

group. I mean, I think of the track Unbearably

10:23

White from Father of the Bride, which of course

10:25

it is not a song about whiteness

10:28

by any stretch in the racial sense. But

10:30

I think the title was a winking nod

10:32

to a

10:34

criticism many people had of

10:37

their work early on, and their

10:39

appropriation of this Graceland-esque polyrhythm.

10:42

I think they're a band that reads their press. In fact,

10:44

John, maybe it was in your interview with them

10:46

where they even said as much. They have

10:49

followed the critical narrative about their work from

10:51

the get-go and it has informed some of the

10:53

choices that they've made for sure. I don't

10:55

know if this is necessarily good for a

10:57

band. I don't read the comments kind of

10:59

person. Yes. Very

11:02

healthy. Very wise, very healthy. Ezra

11:04

has been so valuable

11:06

and he's doing that internet

11:08

radio show. They're so self-conscious

11:11

about music. One thing

11:13

that amazes me is how you escape the

11:15

self-consciousness to be as nutty as

11:17

this album gets. Matthew, you have

11:19

a favorite song? Yeah. I think my favorite song

11:21

on the album is Mary Boone. I

11:24

think it's just a really pretty

11:26

composition. To

11:28

me, it just feels very

11:30

human in a way that they've

11:33

often shied away from.

11:51

If I were to go back and think of what

11:53

song it reminds me of the most, it

11:55

would be Yahweh and he's

11:58

gone from singing to God

12:00

and pleading about what life means

12:02

and what the world is to writing

12:05

a metaphor about a criminal art

12:07

dealer and just

12:10

asking simply or saying simply like,

12:12

I hope that you find love

12:14

soon. And as with any

12:16

good Ezra song, I just love all

12:19

the recitation, just Ando churches and whirling

12:21

dervishes. He just has such a way

12:23

with knowing how to write lyrics that

12:26

fit how he sings and fit his

12:28

voice. That's delicate

12:31

as you wrote, Amanda, like quite consonant.

12:33

And it's just not something you'll hear from a lot

12:36

of other bands where if you were to say, what's

12:38

your favorite lyric? And you just recite Ando

12:40

churches and whirling dervishes and all that

12:42

over and over. It's hard to pinpoint

12:44

what it means, but it

12:46

means something beyond just what he's calling

12:49

out. That versus the

12:51

helicopter shot of the song he's talking

12:53

about trying to make

12:55

it in the art world. And then

12:57

suddenly he's into all these devotional images.

13:00

Speaking of devotional, I mean, modern

13:02

vampires was arguing with

13:04

himself, it seemed, about faith and

13:06

belief and community. This

13:09

one still has it, but in more subtle ways, I

13:11

think. Mandy, you wrote about this a bit. Modern

13:14

vampires is my favorite vampire weekend record. I

13:17

like them all. For me, it's

13:19

a very solid five record run. That

13:21

one is my favorite. And I think in

13:23

part because those questions feel very earnest

13:26

to me. I think with a band,

13:28

this self-aware, as we were saying, sometimes

13:30

that kind of true vulnerability can

13:33

get a little bit lost in the knowing, in

13:35

the self-awareness. But for me, modern vampires, I

13:37

think that questioning of, can I

13:39

submit to a divine idea? Can I be

13:42

subsumed by this larger force? Can I be

13:44

made to serve a master, as Ezra

13:46

sings? To me, that felt very

13:49

true and very beautiful. Yeah,

13:51

I responded enormously to that idea. But I think

13:53

it's been a kind of a thread in their

13:56

discography throughout. I mean, obviously from the title on

13:58

down, there's quite a bit of. of religious

14:00

imagery, religious references on this record too.

14:03

Yeah, absolutely. And Hope is a him.

14:06

Yeah. If it's anything. Yeah,

14:08

yeah, absolutely. Were you

14:11

surprised by Hope, Matthew? You've clocked all

14:13

their songs previously. Probably

14:15

the one I listened to least because it feels

14:17

like a real commitment to go

14:19

into. You have to hear

14:22

all of the fury that he's going

14:24

through and let it go. It's

14:26

funny, it reminds me of Leonard

14:29

Cohen's Death of a Ladies Man, not really

14:32

in content, but just

14:34

this epic closing an album that

14:36

has a little less to

14:38

do with everything else that came before it.

14:41

And it just feels like you're kneeling at

14:43

the altar and trying to get into the

14:45

head of what this person has been

14:47

trying to communicate for the last 30, 40 minutes. But

14:51

it's just so much more calm

14:53

and gentle. And there's so much

14:55

grace to the song. And it

14:57

just sounds like something he came

14:59

up with sitting around a campfire,

15:01

as they do on that new

15:03

vampire campfire podcast. John,

15:06

I'm curious, do you have a favorite? Which

15:08

is your favorite of the records? Of

15:11

the records? I'm split between this and Modern

15:13

Vampires. I pretty much agree with you. You

15:15

might be Modern Vampires, but I might change

15:17

in six months. Yeah. Matthew?

15:20

It's hard to argue with how important Modern

15:22

Vampires is. It's almost

15:25

like the other records wouldn't matter, if that one

15:27

weren't such a success, because they had to prove

15:29

that they had this masterpiece within

15:31

them. But I often find

15:33

myself going to Contra, just for

15:35

a quick record, gets in

15:37

and out, has some great songs. And

15:40

I also love this new one and could

15:42

see it in time, becoming my favorite. I

15:44

just, with decades spent with the

15:46

other albums, it doesn't feel fair to call this

15:48

one my favorite yet. Contra

15:51

was the last one with only 10 songs. And

15:54

then, barely Ezra agonized over maybe putting

15:56

in an 11th song on this album.

16:00

ruled against it, but they're

16:02

very aware of the format of an

16:05

album as X number of songs. Not

16:07

sure of the last gasp too of the

16:10

Scott Punk influence, maybe. I feel like

16:12

that was so heavy in those first

16:14

two records. In fact, probably people who

16:16

are casual vampire weekend fans, probably Holiday

16:18

and A-Punk are the songs they know

16:21

best. That to

16:23

me, I think is maybe the least

16:25

favorite component of what they do. They

16:28

stopped sounding like a band that was

16:31

extending 90s rock. They did

16:33

say the Farfisa Oregon and

16:35

Prep School gangsters as they call back

16:38

to ska bands. Oh,

16:41

cool. I like that song a lot. That's one of my favorite

16:43

tracks. Craft

17:06

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18:38

You need to see the animated floor plans in

18:40

this piece. There's

18:43

another anecdote I couldn't fit into the

18:45

interview, which was that prep school gangsters

18:48

credit to Dev Hines on drums. Apparently

18:51

he had one arm

18:53

in a sling because it was broken. So

18:55

he was playing that drum beat on

18:57

a drop into the studio with one arm.

19:00

Oh, that's so sick. And

19:03

they knew to use it. The other

19:06

thing that kind of fascinated me talking

19:08

to them is how they go back

19:10

into the archaeology of their old recordings.

19:13

Genex Cops apparently is a 10 or

19:15

12 year old guitar lick that

19:17

Chris Thompson played. And somebody

19:20

remembered it and thought, oh, let's build a

19:22

song around that a decade later.

19:24

The mental cataloging of

19:27

every riff you've ever played impresses

19:30

me. Let's put it that way. I

19:33

thought that was wild when I read that. Maybe in your

19:35

piece, John, or maybe it was something they

19:37

mentioned on their podcast. But whenever you hear about

19:39

a band dipping too deep into the archives, I

19:41

think sometimes it can cause some fear and concern

19:44

that maybe the creative well is a little bit

19:46

low. But I think that Vampire Weekend is too

19:48

smart for that. You know, I think they're too

19:50

savvy. I think they kind of know when the

19:52

time is right for a certain melody, a certain

19:55

riff. It's extraordinary. I love that song too. So

19:57

I'm glad they dug it up. Matthew,

19:59

you. Gruden lot about the cross

20:01

reference Reality it is you M favorite. Call.

20:04

Back On this album. Just

20:06

listening to a connects in every

20:09

times it's ensure the Mansard Rostrum.

20:11

cel just. I need to

20:13

stop myself. Add mansour dress to my to

20:15

you. And go and listen

20:17

to that and just. Why? They

20:19

would. Consider. Doing that, you

20:21

know what's the important to them and. Why?

20:24

That particular drum sell and

20:26

even just. Trying to

20:28

figure out where it sits in. I.

20:30

Thought for the longest time when I was listening to

20:32

it that it was holiday and then I thought i

20:35

think it sounds like holiday as a song. And

20:37

what it means to build these pieces out

20:39

of your past catalog. And I think there

20:42

was something they've done, even on. Modern.

20:44

Vampires and Father for Bride Mcmartin Vampires

20:47

where they sing of the chandelier as

20:49

coming down of course feels like they're

20:51

talking about their first album. And

20:53

father of the bride going back to that same

20:55

singer back song and saying and want to live

20:57

like this but I don't want to die. At.

21:00

It's just always been important for them to look

21:02

at who they are and how they've changed since.

21:04

How they could. Take. What they were

21:07

was saying and make it mean something new. Another.

21:09

Thing about this album is feared sitting

21:11

about. Made. It's to turning forty thing,

21:14

but they're thinking about. generations,

21:16

Future. Next cops is. Fred.

21:18

School gangsters, They're. Very much

21:21

as I became a father. Said.

21:23

They're very much thinking about

21:25

continuity and inheritance. Legacies.

21:28

Including their own. Yeah. I think about

21:30

that line. In marry burn was it

21:32

all? In vain, we always wanted money. Now the

21:35

money's not the same. There. Is

21:37

that feeling of as this is a ban on

21:39

the other side in some ways. Colossal success

21:41

and figuring out what it means

21:44

Now. You know what it needs. Now that you're a

21:46

little bit older, you're not. That. Cool

21:48

young, Than. Just on the

21:50

on the ascendance. Yeah, I

21:52

think there's a lot of thoughtfulness. The i

21:54

also became apparent between when modern vampires same

21:56

out of return when the second came out

21:58

and I think. Really related to

22:00

a lot of the ways in which. As we

22:03

have sort of phrasing that idea. The way it

22:05

changes your worldview. The way chain changes. The way

22:07

you think about generational inheritance. The way it changes

22:09

the way you think about. The. Direction

22:11

of the world and also your powerlessness in

22:13

the face of all of that. It

22:16

all really resonated for me. There's classical

22:18

to where did you do thinking about

22:20

history? As a subtext on

22:22

this record of. Nobody

22:24

his innocence. There's this idea

22:27

that we. Are also carrying the

22:29

mistakes. That our ancestors made in

22:31

a way. And that can be a heavy

22:33

idea but I think also also in some ways

22:35

of freeing one is. Rather trying to do the

22:37

best we can right now. Indeed,

22:41

Another. Cutting room floor

22:43

Interviewed Tidbit. Was. Prompter which

22:45

talks about as rose

22:48

Russian immigrant family. That

22:50

battle like a he sings about Israel. And.

22:53

Project. Is the Russian newspaper remains

22:55

truth but he played it for a

22:58

friend of his he said and difference

23:00

at all from though the bar. Which

23:04

was a famous nightlife Avant de Var.

23:07

yeah this is as so as president

23:09

it's on Reddit. gets everything they put

23:11

into the song and everything everybody adds

23:14

to it. From.

23:34

Or was one of those sort of weird

23:36

New York and Susan's I think for a

23:39

time and Vampire Weekend. even though they all

23:41

live in L A now, they're still such

23:43

a New York and this is such a

23:45

New York record. From the cover on through.

23:47

I. Feel like you know person would be

23:50

forgiven for. Hearing that word and

23:52

thinking it was yet another allusion to sound.

23:55

Spot. In the city. There's also the

23:57

tunnel theme of this album. Water.

23:59

to number three. Mary Boone has a

24:01

lot of bridge and tunnel traffic. He

24:04

told me he was thinking about just

24:06

what's under the city, the literal

24:09

network of steam and

24:11

subway and water tunnels. We

24:13

do have to talk about water tunnel

24:15

number three, which is the world's longest

24:17

running construction project, apparently. It's supposed to

24:20

bring water from upstate to New York

24:22

City. He saw a

24:24

New Yorker story about it. But

24:26

his father became

24:29

a set designer, but his father was previously

24:31

an engineer and was fascinated by tunnels. He

24:34

mentioned sand hogs on the album, the

24:37

idea of all of this hidden

24:39

but so difficult

24:42

construction. I actually think

24:44

it's a metaphor for the way

24:47

Vampire Weekend builds songs. There's so

24:49

much under the surface that's

24:51

just hard to do and

24:53

taken for granted. That's really smart,

24:55

John. You should be a music critic. I

24:59

got to get a real job some days. I

25:02

think that's so true. I hadn't thought about it in that

25:04

way, but I think that is, yeah, that feels

25:06

very apt and very true to me. And

25:08

also that idea, I mean, you were mentioning the bridge and

25:10

tunnel traffic. I think there's some very funny,

25:12

great lyrics on here about New Jersey and

25:15

Brooklyn and Queens and the sort of orbiting

25:17

the city of these kind of satellite places

25:19

in a funny way, trying to get to

25:21

where the action is. That feels very true

25:23

to their whole sort of distal. I

25:25

noticed they were on, I think it was

25:27

a daily show maybe a few days

25:29

ago, and they were asked about how

25:31

living in Los Angeles has changed their psychology

25:34

as a band. And they didn't really answer the question.

25:36

John, I'm curious if that's something they talk to you

25:38

about, because it's something, again, it's such a New

25:40

York record by these three guys who now

25:42

live in LA. I want to unpack that

25:44

tension more, though I can't quite figure it

25:46

out myself. Sometimes escaping a place makes

25:48

you think about it more. What

25:52

they did talk about was jamming through

25:54

the pandemic, through the early pandemic. And Medical.

26:00

Office mini mall. Studios.

26:04

Which. I think would have been. I guess you could

26:06

do it in New York, but. Jamming. In

26:08

a mini mall? seems more like L A to many. I

26:12

relate of a lot this records as and

26:14

Xd or cried I'm a native Long Island

26:16

or analyst in the city for ten years.

26:19

And. Has been out west in Denver for

26:21

four years now. But. Like you're

26:23

saying with how obsessed they still are with

26:25

New York, I see all the same way

26:27

I work. In. A or

26:29

Friends in New York. And it

26:32

just makes you view the city in

26:34

a way that. Isn't.

26:37

There at the moment or at least doesn't always

26:39

feel that way at the moment. When. I

26:41

go there. Now I'm struck by. All.

26:44

The billboards and struck by all the people

26:46

and all the smells and all the things

26:48

that a New Yorker would experience that you

26:50

just become a nerd to when he lives

26:52

there. And I think being apart from

26:55

it you can see the weird or parts of

26:57

the city for what it is instead of just

26:59

taking it for granted. And. That sienna

27:01

with things like water tunnel three. Or.

27:04

Even just the imagery that goes with the album

27:06

cover of. Great. Photos that

27:08

show this. The. Subway as

27:10

this. This strange place

27:12

or the single art for Capricorn

27:15

and Janet's tops. Was. A

27:17

photo that he took that I think

27:19

was pointedly taken from Hoboken looking out.

27:21

At the old twin towers as are.

27:23

Being a New Yorker moved to New

27:26

Jersey raise their back in the city.

27:28

Gone again. And just how the

27:30

city will always look as an outsider as

27:32

this. Surreal. Place.

27:35

There's also memories of the Aids

27:37

in this album. When. They

27:39

were just kids. I do remember New

27:41

York in the eighties as as a

27:43

jumping place for artists, as a as

27:45

a place where artist could actually settle

27:48

in, make a living, not as to

27:50

worry about. Skyrocketing. Rents

27:52

with the Talking Heads could have a two

27:54

hundred and twenty dollar a month last. And

27:56

Ludlow Street the eighties where the tail end

27:58

of that. It is t

28:00

sampling memories from when he was barely

28:03

allies. Let's. Pick another song

28:05

and go deep. What? He

28:07

suggests we talk about Capricorn or their Jeff

28:09

Records and in the House The. I

28:12

am both earth and ass or

28:14

Capricorn. And also tougher than that.

28:16

I think Capricorn. To marry Burner my

28:18

sincerest or. Something

28:41

he was is no the best way for you

28:43

is a rate based on look for with other

28:46

one based on the job of the teeth the

28:48

highway like always try and sell the like a

28:50

passing lane. What they

28:52

have a based on anyone else on those the

28:54

movie with Dr well as from I'm Not Alone

28:57

a lesser California such a determined Innocence Rates are

28:59

determined by several factors which vary by state and

29:01

some states participation drive as a lot. Of. The

29:03

teaser died again for purposes of rating well as and seats

29:05

are a could increase with i was driving generally sacred i

29:07

bristle say but I was also aren't as interns coming in

29:09

philly sorts but Illinois. This.

29:13

Will adapt Real sweetness as thanks to

29:15

Capricorn that worked on me and I

29:17

think it's a gentle science. a lovely

29:19

song. it's wistful. It's. Cheesy. It's

29:22

as it moves than a kind of. Unusual.

29:25

Way I urge you guys like it, Is it

29:27

just because I'm a Capricorn was. It. To speaking.

29:30

Directly. To my astrological

29:32

proclivities. I think it's her

29:35

a really pretty song and one that

29:37

they don't really make make so many

29:39

love devotional ballads and it's just simple.

29:42

As you wrote well in your for if you

29:44

amanda. There's not a lot more you

29:46

could say to someone that's a lot sweeter than you don't

29:48

have to try. And I think that

29:50

captures a lot of. What?

29:53

is great about him as a song

29:55

writer is to spain small and precise

29:57

with these thoughts and feelings instead of

30:00

shooting for the rafters or saying something

30:02

trite. That song also, it

30:05

could be sweeter. There's a lot of

30:07

upheavals in that song. I

30:09

think that contrast of the

30:12

heaving, noisy guitars surging

30:14

up from underneath, like the Loch Ness monster

30:16

feeling to the middle of that song, and

30:19

then it resolves. It's part

30:21

of what makes them so remarkable to

30:23

me. I watched the

30:25

Eclipse concert, and it seems

30:27

like they managed to reproduce all of these

30:30

crazy studio things live,

30:33

which was impressive. I

30:35

watched some clips of the Eclipse

30:38

show that they played, which was also

30:40

Ezra's 40th birthday, which feels deliberate and

30:42

auspicious and purposeful. But I've been

30:44

constantly impressed by, I think, their

30:47

ambition as a live band.

30:49

They work with a really excellent producer. They

30:52

do things in the studio that feel very savvy

30:55

and sophisticated, but they don't really let

30:57

it slide when they go on stage.

30:59

I think they're trying to bring all

31:01

of those complicated interlocking melodies, rhythms, patterns.

31:03

They're really trying to make them work in

31:06

a live setting, which I find incredibly

31:08

impressive. Although not as impressive as

31:10

Ezra's vintage blind melon t-shirt that he was

31:12

wearing at the Eclipse concert. I

31:14

would pay good money for that t-shirt. Hehehe,

31:16

calling eBay. During

31:20

the goose jam, speaking of t-shirt lore,

31:22

he was wearing a t-shirt that said, Free Mary

31:25

Boone. Oh, that's

31:27

incredible. Let's talk a

31:29

little about The Surfer, which was the

31:31

kind of skulking music that we started

31:33

with way back, which feels like their

31:35

homage to The Beatles. Yeah, I

31:38

love the horns on that track. That's also

31:40

Rostam, former member of the band, coming back

31:42

to produce, and maybe it was also a co-writer on

31:45

that track, if I remember it correctly. Actually,

31:47

here's the story. They've

31:49

been working on that song. It's part

31:52

of the archaeological generations of this album.

31:54

There was a song that was a collaboration

31:57

with Rostam, and it was a totally

31:59

different song. different melody but it

32:01

had enough of the song, so they

32:03

kept Rostam in the credits. So this

32:06

is another recycled element from

32:08

the hard drive somewhere in the past. I

32:10

think that shows with the beginning that sounds

32:13

like a hip hop sample uncredited. So I

32:15

don't know what it is or if it's

32:18

just something that chopped up from their

32:20

own recordings, but that to me

32:22

felt like a bit of a Rostam

32:24

signature. Could be. I was not able

32:26

to isolate the strain, the Rostam strain.

32:30

One thing that's impressed me through the

32:32

years is that they've gotten more contrapuntal

32:34

as they've progressed. The scopunk thing at

32:36

the beginning was syncopated chords, and

32:38

now there's many more counter

32:40

melodies that they all

32:42

try to reproduce on stage.

32:44

The baselines are contrapuntal, the

32:47

keyboards and guitars are diverging.

32:49

It seems like much more intricate, and

32:52

they were pretty intricate to start with. I

32:54

don't think about it as sophisticatedly as you're

32:56

putting it, but I think it's

32:59

inherent in how they write songs that when

33:01

they're first starting, it was they were called

33:03

for a pop and chamber pop and all

33:05

that, that you have this

33:07

connection back to the history of Western

33:10

music and that they're just these melodies

33:12

that feel whole and

33:15

complete and you want to embrace them.

33:17

I think it speaks to how they've

33:19

matured too, that it's so

33:21

much of it is a songwriting project,

33:23

and that's an important part of it.

33:25

Instead of just going out there and

33:27

jamming songs, it doesn't ever feel like

33:29

these are rough sketches come to life.

33:31

It feels like every little

33:33

piece of it has been considered, and

33:36

even noticing those small details, I think

33:38

is what Ezra would want us to

33:40

take away from this record more than

33:42

anything. Speaking of jamming, they've been

33:44

hinting at Vampire Weekend's inner

33:46

jam band. In

33:48

fact, when I talked to Thompson, he was wearing a

33:51

fish t-shirt to go with your blind

33:53

melon t-shirt Amanda. But

33:56

the idea that they're going to have

33:58

a jam band within Vampire Weekend, And it's

34:00

kind of great. I will say the

34:03

father of the bride kind of largely considered

34:05

their jam band moment, their jam

34:07

band record. I think when

34:09

I first heard that album or when I

34:11

maybe read something that sort of speak about

34:13

its conception in that way, I thought, oh,

34:15

they're being a little contrarian, right? It's like

34:18

a hard left turn into what is the

34:20

most deeply uncool music a

34:22

band could embrace at that moment in

34:24

time. And then I was just shocked

34:26

by how well it worked with

34:29

the way that they write songs. I love the

34:31

idea that they have like a little secret

34:33

internal jam band that's maybe going to show

34:35

up at Bonnaroo or whatever, 3 o'clock in

34:37

the morning on the campfire stage and play

34:39

a 45-minute Eyes of the World or whatever

34:41

it might be. I think it

34:43

makes sense for Vampire Weekend in a funny way. The

34:46

backstory Ezra was inventing for them

34:48

was a 90s band that was

34:50

between jam and punk with

34:52

Footnote to the Minutemen. I mean,

34:54

that kind of just describes Vampire Weekend, doesn't

34:56

it? A little bit. This

34:59

band was made for Footnotes, keeping

35:01

us critics in business, I guess. I

35:05

like that because I'm an enormous nerd. I

35:07

love the sort of parsing of the lyrical

35:09

references, these kind of arcane, you know, the

35:11

water, again, the water tunnel number three. I

35:14

love that work that you get a little bit of

35:16

homework with the Vampire Weekend record. I think it's a

35:18

lot of fun. And I think they're

35:20

also, you know, when they first came out,

35:22

there was all this chatter. It felt so significant that

35:24

they were formed at Columbia, you know, in the

35:26

early 2000s. But I

35:28

think there is this sort of Ivy League threat.

35:31

Like it's a little bit highbrow. There's

35:33

a lot of multisyllabic words.

35:35

There's arcane references. There

35:38

is this sort of thing, this kind of academic

35:40

thing that happens in their work that I think

35:42

is intriguing. I think it's fun. Besides

35:45

the polysyllables, no three syllable phrase

35:47

is safe. Diane

35:50

Young, Jenna Cops, Hannah

35:52

Hunt, especially three syllable

35:54

names, Mary Boone. I

35:56

mean, they also love a thing that sounds like something else.

35:58

There's a word for that that I'm forgetting. I get synecdoche,

36:00

is that it? Ice cream

36:02

piano, Yah-hey, there's

36:04

a million of them in their discography, giant

36:07

young, a thing that sounds like another thing.

36:09

Homophones. Ah, yes.

36:11

Thank you, John. Backcheck and cuz. Sorry,

36:14

Vampire Weekend. We're

36:17

all such big fans. I'm curious. Again, at Vampire

36:19

Weekend, truly one of my favorite bands. I will

36:21

love them to the end. I think they are

36:24

great. I get incredibly excited when I hear

36:26

there's a new record coming out, but I'm

36:28

curious if there's eras or songs that don't

36:30

work for you guys. Vampire misfires. Quick

36:34

answer is no. I

36:36

can always contort myself into thinking something

36:39

they're doing is great. The amount of people

36:41

I've had to defend Father of the Bride

36:43

2 is immeasurable. I think

36:46

if there's one thing that sometimes

36:48

can rub me the wrong way and it's

36:50

less so with music, but is

36:53

just, and I love the self-awareness in

36:55

general, but the self-awareness with the hyper-commercialism

36:58

that found itself

37:00

peeking into their everything

37:02

surrounding Father of the Bride, putting Sony

37:05

music on the cover, being

37:07

very aware of themselves as a brand. I

37:10

don't even want to say I dislike it,

37:12

but it makes it harder to then

37:14

defend them just because it feeds into

37:17

exactly what people who might dislike them would

37:19

get out of just, oh, they're smarmy,

37:21

they're know-it-alls, but it's part

37:23

of who they are. They know they

37:25

are a brand in a band and

37:28

they represent something to people that they

37:30

might not always try to intend with

37:32

their music like you were saying earlier,

37:35

John, with him having to clarify what provident met in

37:37

the song. They're going to create something and then the

37:39

rest of the world is going to perceive it. I

37:42

noticed that at the Austin concert, they

37:44

were still talking about pick up the

37:46

merch, get the album, it's still part

37:48

of the stage routine, which

37:50

you do when you're an indie rock band

37:53

playing the Bowery Ballroom maybe, but you

37:55

don't really have to send people to the merch table

37:57

if you're feeling an amphitheater. Yeah. I

38:00

will say to their credit, they got me

38:03

off of buying new vinyl records, which is

38:05

maybe against them trying to send people to

38:07

the merch table. But I remember

38:09

one time years ago, Ezra was like, yeah, buy

38:11

the vinyl, buy the iTunes, doesn't matter, the vinyl

38:13

is just like a big CD. I

38:15

was like, yeah, you're right. I'm just going to buy the CD. They

38:19

did put this out on vinyl and it's apparently, even

38:21

though it's just 10 songs, it's four sides

38:24

because it goes a little bit over what

38:26

they want for high fidelity. So

38:29

Hope is on its side of its

38:31

own, like sad-eyed lady to lowlands. Wow.

38:35

Such a lovely coda for the record. I'm

38:37

just an absolute moron when it comes to

38:39

vinyl. I'm such a fetishist. Is

38:42

that a word? I don't know. But I

38:44

think that song, which we've already talked about

38:46

a little bit, but to me, it really

38:48

feels like a

38:50

very expert, very lovely summation

38:52

of the whole kind of psychogeography

38:54

of this thing. I

38:57

know I said Mary Boone and Capricorn were my favorite

38:59

songs, but I just want to ride hard

39:01

for Hope for a minute. I think it's a

39:03

really beautiful sentiment and a perfect way to

39:05

summarize and close this record. It's

39:07

also a challenge for a band that does

39:10

tight little three-minute songs to sustain

39:12

an eight-minute utterance. I

39:14

think they do that really well. Yeah.

39:16

It thickens and it thins out. It

39:19

gets orchestral and then it gets vulnerable.

39:22

It's pretty impressive. I love

39:24

the line Ezra has in there. This is such a New

39:26

York thing too where he says, I think it's something like

39:28

your bag fell down onto the tracks. I hope you let

39:30

it go. Anyone who's ever ridden the New

39:32

York subways had that moment where they drop something out

39:35

of the subway tracks. I think to

39:37

me that lyric in a funny way, encapsulates

39:39

the idea of aging or submitting

39:42

to the things that are truly out of

39:44

your control, understanding your limitations. Because when you're

39:46

21 and you drop whatever, you drop your

39:48

wallet onto the subway tracks, you think, oh,

39:51

that's what, four or five feet? I can

39:53

leap down there and grab my thing and scurry

39:55

back up and it'll be fine. I'm not going to get

39:57

hit by a subway train. Then you get a little bit

39:59

older and you- you realize, oh my God, that would be the

40:01

dumbest thing in the world to do. It's

40:03

insane, I could die, it would inconvenience

40:05

a million other people. That there's true

40:07

growth in that too. It's a small

40:09

little couplet, but I thought, oh, that

40:11

contains so much. That contains so much

40:13

of the narrative of this record,

40:16

and of aging, and of New York, and

40:18

of just all of it. The fact that

40:20

it's a little bit of an

40:22

insidery reference too, also felt very

40:25

of a piece with Vampire Weekend's whole thing. It's

40:28

underground and it's in a tunnel. Yes, exactly.

40:32

Speaking to return to the water tunnel

40:34

idea, the thing that resonated for me

40:36

about that too, was the precarity of

40:38

that project. It's an amazing

40:40

David Graham article from the New Yorker

40:42

about the construction of the water tunnels in

40:44

New York, and it makes you realize how

40:46

simple it would be for the entire city

40:48

of New York to be cut off from

40:50

its water supply. There's a little bit of

40:52

a danger of precarity built into that,

40:55

built into any idea of a tunnel that

40:57

I also thought was useful and smart

41:00

to deploy as a lyrical, as an

41:02

image, as a reoccurring image here. I

41:05

think that's a good place to wrap it

41:07

up. I really want to thank Matthew Strauss

41:09

from Pitchfork, Amanda Petrusic from the

41:11

New Yorker, the Vampire

41:14

Weekend Critics Fan Club. Every

41:17

Popcast ever is available

41:20

at newyorktimes.com/Popcast. Every episode

41:22

of Popcast Deluxe with

41:24

John Caramand again, Joe

41:26

Cascarelli is on YouTube

41:28

at youtube.com/Popcast. Please

41:30

like, subscribe anywhere you get your

41:33

audio content, Apple, Spotify, YouTube, etc.

41:37

Our producer, as always, is Pedro Rosado

41:39

from Head Stever Media. We'll

41:41

be back next week. I'm John Parellis, and let's

41:44

go out with some hope. You've

42:11

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more at navy.com. America's Navy.

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Forged by the sea.