0:09

Welcome to the fifth episode of PortfolioCast. Today, were

0:11

speaking with Leila Rastegar

0:14

Zegna. Leilas career has been

0:14

formed with hardworking roots

0:18

whilst reaching innovative and

0:18

entrepreneurial heights. Whilst

0:21

balancing the management of

0:21

venture funds worth millions,

0:24

she is also a philanthropist who

0:24

believes in portfolio life over

0:28

portfolio work. Welcome, Leila.

0:30

Thank you. It's great to be here.

0:32

So often, I

0:32

start our PortfolioCast

0:36

conversations by starting at the

0:36

beginning. What I'd love to do

0:39

with you, Leila is start with

0:39

where you are right now, because

0:43

it's a pretty exciting time. My

0:43

introduction alluded to the

0:47

heights that you've reached. But

0:47

firstly, I'd really like to

0:49

congratulate you on Kindred's

0:49

second fund of 81 million to

0:53

back-up even more early stage

0:53

startups.

0:56

Thank you.

0:57

It's an incredible success.

0:58

Thank you. Yeah, it's a really exciting place to be.

1:01

So from my

1:01

perspective, the success is

1:03

huge. It's up there in bright,

1:03

big letters. I mean, you've

1:07

experienced a lot of what I can

1:07

see as success. But I wonder how

1:10

you build up that success? How

1:10

do you approach success, when

1:15

the heights are so high?

1:16

Yeah,

1:16

thank you. I love this question.

1:19

Because I think actually, I've

1:19

learned so much along the way,

1:22

that kind of talking about the

1:22

the culmination of it, or the

1:25

aggregation of it, where I am

1:25

now versus the stepping stones

1:29

along the way, I think is a

1:29

really interesting way of

1:31

looking at it. I would say you

1:31

reach success by looking within,

1:36

which actually isn't necessarily

1:36

where I started, which is why I

1:40

love that question so much, I

1:40

can see such a big difference in

1:43

the way in which I approach my

1:43

life and my career today,

1:46

instead of looking within it,

1:46

what is much more of sort of

1:49

intrinsic motivation as opposed

1:49

to thes extrinsic motivation.

1:52

Yeah,

1:53

So I think

1:53

where I am now is this sort of

1:56

amazing place in my life, where

1:56

I'm able to channel sort of my

2:00

value system, the things that I

2:00

care about, the things that are

2:04

important to me in terms of the

2:04

type of work that I do, and the

2:06

type of people I surround myself

2:06

with, because I've founded this

2:10

fund alongside a few other

2:10

extraordinary people. As you

2:13

guys know very well, from having

2:13

started this company. Anytime

2:16

you start a company/an

2:16

organisation, I think the

2:19

greatest privilege that you have

2:19

is you get to construct the

2:22

world around you that you want

2:22

to live in. And that world, it's

2:26

a function of the people who you

2:26

choose to bring around you. In

2:28

our case, it's not just our

2:28

partnership, and our team at

2:31

Kindred, but it's all the

2:31

entrepreneurs that we choose to

2:34

back and we get the privilege of

2:34

backing out of the fund. But

2:37

it's also the value system, it's

2:37

the ethos by which you do the

2:40

work. It's the systems, it's the

2:40

space, literally, it's

2:43

absolutely everything in your

2:43

world is constructed to reflect

2:47

your worldview. And that just

2:47

feels like this enormous

2:50

privilege. I think sort of

2:50

taking that step back and

2:52

thinking about my journey to

2:52

this point, I think being a

2:56

product of a, an immigrant

2:56

family in the US, and really, I

3:00

think doing a lot because it was

3:00

my upbringing, my parents

3:04

telling me how important hard

3:04

work and dedication and

3:07

commitment was and getting an A

3:07

was better than getting a B and

3:10

going to a great university was

3:10

better than going to sort of a

3:13

second tier University. And

3:13

there was this hierarchy of what

3:16

success actually looked like, in

3:16

my household and in my life. And

3:20

I think many people are raised

3:20

with that type of ethos. And it

3:23

obviously has so many wonderful

3:23

things that come with it. But it

3:26

it does have a flip side to the

3:26

coin, which is oftentimes you're

3:30

doing things for external

3:30

praise, or the more classic

3:34

definitions of success and

3:34

achievement. So it took me quite

3:38

a long time, probably into my

3:38

mid 30s or so when I was a good

3:42

13-14 years into building my

3:42

career and doing professional

3:45

work, when I think I found the

3:45

thing that feels much more

3:49

authentically me. And I think

3:49

success really stems from that

3:53

at the end of the day.

3:54

Yeah, absolutely, it's really important to take a look at

3:56

those two ends of the spectrum,

4:00

because quite often, we need to

4:00

find that middle ground, rather

4:03

than it being all about success

4:03

in other people's eyes, and then

4:08

working towards success in our own eyes.

4:11

Yeah, I

4:11

think for a long time, and I'm

4:13

not even sure this is the right

4:13

structure, but we're sort of

4:16

much more generally

4:16

philosophically getting into

4:18

education. But I think for a

4:18

long time, there can be

4:21

structures within education, and

4:21

then within organisations that

4:24

really feed into that, that kind

4:24

of show you the rungs on the

4:27

ladder that you need to climb.

4:27

And everything is quite means to

4:31

the end, as opposed to the

4:31

appreciation of the thing itself

4:34

in that moment in time. So, you

4:34

know, you take the honours

4:37

class, to get into the right

4:37

university to get into the right

4:40

first job to then get promoted

4:40

within that job to then go to

4:43

the right business school in my

4:43

case. So you can actually get

4:45

quite far without ever having to

4:45

take a big step back and think

4:50

genuinely about the things that

4:50

you over index to the things

4:53

that you love, which tend to be the things that you're really good at and vice versa and start

4:55

building from that standpoint.

4:58

Yeah, I

4:58

mean, was there anything that

5:00

triggered that reflection, that

5:00

step back?

5:04

Yeah, I

5:04

think there wasn't a very

5:06

logical next rung on the ladder,

5:06

frankly. I mean, I think I was

5:10

graduating from business school

5:10

and my classmates were going to

5:15

all sorts of wild and wonderful

5:15

places. So I was - "okay, do I

5:19

want to go and work in the

5:19

nonprofit sector and work up

5:22

leadership ranks within that

5:22

sphere? Do I want to go into

5:25

sort of the big corporate world?

5:25

Do I want to start a company do

5:27

I want to be in technology? Do I

5:27

want to be an investor?" And all

5:30

of a sudden, this whole world

5:30

was open. And I wasn't at the

5:33

stage of my career where it was

5:33

like, just get a first job, go

5:36

get a great training somewhere.

5:36

It was, you should now know

5:39

yourself well enough to know

5:39

that the next thing you do is

5:43

hopefully building a track to

5:43

something. And I just think

5:46

there's a lot of pressure on

5:46

young people today, maybe on all

5:48

people today, but certainly

5:48

young people to find that thing

5:52

where they're going to self

5:52

actualize, which is like such a

5:55

perfect combination of their

5:55

passions and their financial

5:58

money making abilities, and to

5:58

do that really early on. And I

6:02

think that that pressure

6:02

sometimes leads people to make a

6:05

decision before they really know

6:05

who they are, and what they

6:08

might want to do with their

6:08

lives. So portfolio careers,

6:11

which, which I know is the bulk

6:11

of what we're talking about

6:13

today, I think it's just

6:13

extraordinarily beneficial.

6:17

Also, for sort of different

6:17

junctures of your life where,

6:20

you know, both you've gotten to

6:20

know yourself much better over

6:22

time. But contexts change and

6:22

opportunities change and

6:26

environments change. So giving

6:26

yourself that ability to invent

6:29

and reinvent as you go along, I

6:29

think it's really powerful.

6:32

Yeah, and

6:32

that kind of reinvention is

6:35

something that is so at the

6:35

heart of portfolio careers,

6:39

because we never really stand

6:39

still for too long. And that's a

6:42

trait that I see again, again,

6:42

when I'm having these

6:45

conversations. And when we spoke

6:45

about you becoming one of our

6:47

founding members, you mentioned

6:47

about having, or rather how you

6:52

feel about living a portfolio of

6:52

life, and how that is then

6:55

reflected back between your

6:55

personal life and your working

6:58

life. Rather than it just being

6:58

a career path. Would you mind

7:01

talking a little bit more about

7:01

this way of living and how it's

7:05

been for you?

7:06

Yeah, I

7:06

think we all have so many

7:09

different responsibilities in

7:09

our lives, but also so many

7:13

different passions. Like, again,

7:13

going back to this education

7:16

example, there was a time when

7:16

the day looked like, you know,

7:19

morning doing maths, and science

7:19

and English and literature and

7:24

language and art, and you had

7:24

this full spectrum, and sports

7:28

and everything in between. And

7:28

then as we get older, as

7:31

traditionally, we've gotten just

7:31

narrower and narrower in terms

7:34

of the types of things that

7:34

we're unable to do. And some of

7:37

that is building depth and

7:37

expertise in a single area. And

7:40

so you have to rinse, repeat,

7:40

and the law of 10,000 hours, but

7:43

I feel that we've really lost

7:43

somewhere along the way, that

7:47

real breadth to our characters,

7:47

our personalities. And, frankly,

7:51

I think what fuels us to be

7:51

great at those things that we do

7:54

dedicate a lot more time to. So

7:54

I found that I went through a

7:57

period of great expansion as

7:57

everyone did when they were very

8:00

young to becoming more narrowly

8:00

focused on a given category. And

8:05

then little by little, I think

8:05

the last certainly five years,

8:07

if not 10 years, starting to

8:07

like bolt on more things,

8:10

whether that's new projects

8:10

outside of work, or whether

8:13

that's in my my home life, my

8:13

personal life, which I was

8:16

alluding to, in that first

8:16

conversation, where we have

8:18

three young startups at home, we

8:18

have, we have three young kids.

8:23

And you know, we're building a

8:23

family ourselves, we're building

8:25

a new network for ourselves in

8:25

London, where we moved five

8:28

years ago. So that sort of

8:28

friendships and relationships.

8:32

And what I've realised is that

8:32

in adding all those things into

8:34

my life, instead of having less

8:34

time for any one thing, I feel

8:39

like my world has expanded

8:39

hugely. And actually, I feel

8:42

that they each make me so much

8:42

better at the other thing that

8:45

I'm doing. Each of them gives me

8:45

energy in a different way. And

8:49

therefore, you get this lovely,

8:49

non zero sum phenomenon where

8:53

you somehow get more energy,

8:53

more capacity, more time, from

8:57

doing things that are genuinely

8:57

interesting to you in different

8:59

ways.

9:00

Yeah, I mean, that's, that's an incredible way of describing it.

9:02

Because there is definitely

9:05

there's all these many, many

9:05

pulls on your time. How do you

9:10

approach that kind of balance?

9:10

And how do you approach getting

9:13

time for just you in all the

9:13

things that you do? Is that

9:17

possible, especially with being

9:17

a parent as well?

9:20

So I'm

9:20

particularly bad at that last

9:22

one, so I won't, I won't pretend

9:22

to be good. I actually think

9:26

that Coronavirus and the

9:26

lockdown and everything has been

9:29

particularly challenging for

9:29

people on that front because

9:33

somehow the separation for me of

9:33

getting up putting on sort of

9:36

professional work clothes,

9:36

leaving the house going to an

9:39

office and then coming back,

9:39

there was more of a separation

9:42

between one and the other. And

9:42

also there was just more commute

9:46

time / downtime in between

9:46

versus if I can hear my family

9:50

in the other room, when you and

9:50

I get off of a podcast call I'm

9:54

gonna shut my computer and

9:54

immediately go there because

9:56

there's such a scarcity of time

9:56

for anything that you love. You

10:00

just try and pack the day as

10:00

full as you can. So it's taken

10:03

me six months or so to settle

10:03

into something that looks like

10:06

it's going to be a new, at least

10:06

hybrid, way of working for quite

10:09

a long time to come.

10:11

Yeah,

10:11

And really

10:11

understand the importance, as

10:13

you say, have some time just for

10:13

you. And so I'm trying to build

10:18

those ends little by little, but

10:18

I think it comes from this

10:21

voracious appetite to be with

10:21

the people I love and do the

10:24

things that I love to do. So on

10:24

that front, I can't claim that I

10:28

do a great job. But I think the

10:28

way in which I think about

10:31

balance is much more work/life

10:31

integration, as opposed to

10:34

work/life balance, which I think

10:34

has come in a very physical

10:37

manifestation over lockdown. And

10:37

many people that you talk to, I

10:40

think, have seen a really

10:40

enormous silver lining to that,

10:44

that sort of time spent in one

10:44

another's company, and all those

10:46

little moments. But I think I've

10:46

probably never had balance in my

10:51

life, so to speak, and balance,

10:51

I think, inherently talks about

10:55

some perfect equilibrium, which

10:55

I think is an impossible

10:58

standard. But also, I think, as

10:58

you think about balance, well,

11:01

there's this troubling thing

11:01

over here, it needs to be

11:04

balanced by something that is

11:04

positive, or you have a positive

11:07

and negative and they tend to be

11:07

kind of counterweights to each

11:09

other. And yeah, that's not, I

11:09

guess how I see or aspire to

11:14

live my life. And I think it's

11:14

figuring out a way of, as I

11:17

said, getting energy from both

11:17

things.

11:19

Yeah,

11:19

One of my

11:19

partners in the firm has a word

11:22

that he uses, I reference a lot

11:22

very much resonates with me,

11:26

which is a word around things

11:26

being "generative". So if I come

11:31

into a meeting with you, and we

11:31

both bring a lot of our brain

11:35

power, and our physical energy,

11:35

mental energy, emotional energy,

11:38

we can leave it all in the room

11:38

and give it everything that we

11:41

have. Oftentimes, you'll leave

11:41

that room and you'll actually

11:44

have more energy than when you

11:44

came in. Like you've just

11:47

created something, you've

11:47

generated something with that

11:50

other person. And then other

11:50

times you'll go in, and it can

11:52

be a really basic meeting,

11:52

you're not actually bringing a

11:54

huge amount of yourself and you

11:54

can leave just feel like

11:57

completely drained and depleted.

11:59

Yeah.

11:59

So I think figuring out for yourself, what is generative? What are those

12:01

things that actually generate

12:04

energy for you, and then using

12:04

those sort of reserves, if you

12:07

will be able to do all those

12:07

other things that are required

12:10

of you as an individual. That's

12:10

the way I try and think about

12:13

this balance question that you asked.

12:15

That's - yeah, that's a really good way of describing it, especially the

12:16

word generative, I think that's

12:20

yeah, that's definitely going to

12:20

come back for me, I think

12:22

that...

12:23

I've

12:23

stolen that from him. Now, I'm

12:25

making it my own,

12:27

It's definitely going to come into my vocabulary from now on. So

12:28

that's a good way of looking at

12:30

it. You mentioned that about

12:30

your voracious appetite for new

12:35

things for new work for, for

12:35

creating. And certainly, your

12:39

successes, as we've already

12:39

discussed, are very much based

12:42

on a foundation of a lot of hard

12:42

work, you've obviously applied

12:45

yourself to do the hard work and

12:45

really create something whether

12:48

that was studying at Yale, or

12:48

then your MBA at Harvard, and

12:53

all the businesses that you

12:53

formed and supported along the

12:57

way. And we touched briefly on

12:57

your family being a touchstone

13:01

on that, and certainly a driving

13:01

force. But I wondered if you

13:04

wanted to talk a bit more about

13:04

how that mindset was created,

13:07

and how it's taken you from A to

13:07

B and forwards?

13:11

Yeah, so one of my companies that I helped start with a genetics

13:13

company, a genomics company, and

13:16

I'm a big believer in, in

13:16

nature, as well as nurture, I

13:19

think there are things that are

13:19

hard coded into your DNA. It's

13:22

quite interesting to watch the

13:22

childhood videos of myself and

13:26

my older sister, who's she's

13:26

three and a half years older

13:29

than me. And there's a

13:29

gymnastics class that we're in

13:32

when I'm three, and she's six.

13:32

And this other kid in the class

13:35

does a somersault and you see my

13:35

sister being like, "That's

13:38

awesome", like, "Well done, you

13:38

can do a somersault", and then

13:41

it pans over to me, and I'm like, "Oh, she thinks she could do a somersault. Like I'll show

13:43

you a somersault." You see my

13:45

little three year old self

13:45

trying to compete with these six

13:48

year olds, and we're just wired

13:48

differently.

13:51

Yeah,

13:51

I think I always had a bit of that competitive spirit in me very

13:52

much around competition with

13:56

myself and trying to always

13:56

strive to be better and

14:00

continuous improvement. And I

14:00

think that was fueled by the

14:03

fact that I grew up with my

14:03

father from the age of 11. And

14:07

my sister grew up with my mum.

14:07

And she went back to university

14:10

to get her graduate degree. So

14:10

we were we were separated. My

14:14

father is quite a hard driving

14:14

competitive, A is better than B

14:19

kind of guy. So I think that

14:19

also really shaped a lot of my

14:23

early years of being really

14:23

proud to do well and show him

14:27

that I had done well. And then I

14:27

think there's now as I was

14:30

talking about the first

14:30

question, there's a great

14:33

internal intrinsic motivation

14:33

and much more authenticity, I

14:37

think in myself to why I care

14:37

about doing well and the things

14:41

that I'm doing now and frankly,

14:41

across everything that I do, I

14:45

feel like it's it's really about

14:45

others as opposed to being about

14:48

me. And that feels like a much

14:48

better place. It feels like I'm

14:52

doing things for reasons that

14:52

are really important to me as

14:55

opposed to somehow trying to get

14:55

the award and then show it off

14:58

to someone else. So it's been a

14:58

real journey to that. But I

15:01

think a lot of it is nature and

15:01

then a good dose of nurture in

15:05

there as well.

15:06

Yeah, absolutely. I definitely like that theory. Nature really does

15:07

drive you I have a very similar

15:11

reaction to how I've been

15:11

brought up with my Dad, also the

15:15

examples that we were given

15:15

growing up? Yeah, that's very

15:18

hard working will work long

15:18

hours. And it's like one of

15:21

those conversations that you

15:21

constantly hear parroted back to

15:25

you, my grandparents saying,

15:25

you're very much like a father.

15:28

Yeah, of

15:28

course. And then I think that

15:31

makes you sort of hear that

15:31

categorization early on, and

15:34

then you make it true. It's like

15:34

a self fulfilling prophecy. And

15:37

I think about it a lot now as a

15:37

mum, because I think both my

15:40

parents were these extraordinary

15:40

individuals, great parents

15:44

really loving, really nurturing.

15:44

And so when I came home with a

15:48

straight A report card, my

15:48

father was really proud of me.

15:51

And there's nothing wrong with

15:51

that. And that he, of course he

15:53

was doing - he was proud. And

15:53

that's great. But I think

15:56

tacitly or implicitly, children

15:56

are quite susceptible to

16:00

thinking that their love, or

16:00

their admiration, in some sense

16:03

is linked to the achievement as

16:03

opposed to who you actually are.

16:06

Yeah.

16:07

And so I think about that a lot. Now, when my children do things that

16:09

I'm really proud of them for

16:12

doing. Do you congratulate the

16:12

action? Do you congratulate the

16:15

effort? Do you just say, Great,

16:15

let's laugh about good things

16:18

and bad things? Like I think

16:18

there's much more awareness in

16:20

terms of those subtle signs and

16:20

signals that you give to your

16:23

kids over time, but it certainly

16:23

played a role in my life growing

16:26

up.

16:26

Yeah, definitely. And that self awareness, levels of self

16:28

awareness, has definitely

16:30

developed over generations. I

16:30

see portfolio careers as an

16:35

obvious choice for investors to

16:35

get involved with, especially

16:39

now, I've learned more about you

16:39

and from you, what would you

16:42

recommend to fellow investors

16:42

considering a change, looking at

16:47

whether they should be

16:47

continuing in a normal nine to

16:50

five? If that's even possible?

16:50

There's lots of changing working

16:53

environments at the moment, or

16:53

just considering moving away

16:57

from just a singular role and

16:57

maybe exploring other avenues?

17:00

What kind of advice would you,

17:00

would you give them when they're

17:03

looking at it thinking "What next?"

17:06

Yeah, I

17:06

think it's particularly suited,

17:08

actually, to investors and in

17:08

investment roles. And part of

17:12

that is, I'm thinking about

17:12

investing in a company, my hope

17:16

is that that founder, that CEO,

17:16

that team knows more about that

17:21

company, that market insight,

17:21

the dynamics that are very

17:25

specific to what they're

17:25

operating in 24/7, than I will,

17:28

but what I will know are things

17:28

that they can't see if they are

17:32

in that narrow, very deep vein

17:32

of being constantly focused

17:36

around one thing, one problem

17:36

they're trying to solve. And so

17:39

I think part of the benefit of

17:39

being an investor and having

17:41

this meta level view across many

17:41

different businesses, in many

17:45

different segments, with many

17:45

different customer bases and

17:47

business models, is actually

17:47

there's far more connectivity to

17:51

those dots than may initially

17:51

meet the eye. And so I think

17:54

breakthroughs in thought or

17:54

opening up a window of

17:56

opportunity for a founder is

17:56

very much predicated on you

18:00

being able to see things that

18:00

they by definition don't. And in

18:03

my experience, that's been a

18:03

portfolio literally is the word

18:07

that we use to talk about our

18:07

own investment portfolio. So

18:10

looking at adjacencies, or

18:10

commonalities across businesses

18:14

that may seem very disparate or

18:14

very separate. But also in my

18:17

personal life I was having this

18:17

conversation with, we use an

18:20

executive coach at Kindred at

18:20

our venture fund. So he works

18:24

with us as individual Investment

18:24

Partners, but also on the team

18:28

dynamic. And he's been an

18:28

extraordinary asset to us. I was

18:31

having a conversation with him a

18:31

couple of weeks ago. And he

18:33

said, asking me about places in

18:33

my life that I felt are very

18:37

generative for me, and places

18:37

where I felt like I had

18:39

something really to add, where I

18:39

was quite confident in my

18:42

abilities. And I spoke about

18:42

being a mother. And I said, I've

18:46

only been doing it for five

18:46

years, our eldest child has

18:50

special needs. And I am by no

18:50

means an expert in disabilities

18:55

or special needs. I haven't read

18:55

the psychology books around

18:58

parenting. I'm not a

18:58

psychologist, PhD by training.

19:02

But I feel very confident in my

19:02

sort of intuition and abilities

19:06

as a mum. And if there was

19:06

another parent who wanted to

19:09

speak to me about some issue

19:09

they were struggling with, or

19:11

they were trying to work

19:11

through, I would be so excited

19:14

to take that call and give them

19:14

at least some of what I've

19:17

learned along the way. And we

19:17

were trying to think about that

19:19

mindset on how to take that

19:19

mindset into the investment

19:23

realm that I work in

19:23

professionally, where you're not

19:25

the expert in the room, again,

19:25

on that domain or on that

19:29

technology, or you shouldn't be

19:29

otherwise you probably shouldn't

19:31

be investing in that CEO. But

19:31

actually there are some areas

19:35

where you have - you over-index,

19:35

you've got great intuition,

19:38

you've got great gut or

19:38

judgement, you really back your

19:41

understanding of something and

19:41

you can bring those things to

19:43

bear. So again, throughout my

19:43

life, personal/professional, I

19:47

feel like there are these

19:47

experiences that you can bring

19:49

to bear as you think about

19:49

supporting folks professionally

19:52

from an investment perspective.

19:54

Yeah, no,

19:54

that's really sound advice and

19:56

it seems to be a stream for more

19:56

and more investors. Or more to

20:00

the point, they're realising

20:00

that this is the kind of life

20:03

that they have actually been

20:03

living for a while and put it

20:05

into a framework a little bit,

20:05

or you put it into perspective.

20:08

And then you can think, Oh,

20:08

actually, what else could I do?

20:11

I don't necessarily just have to

20:11

be an investor, I could be going

20:16

and using my skills elsewhere.

20:16

Not only are you managing 100

20:21

million+ in a VC fund for

20:21

Kindred capital, as a main role,

20:25

you also have your side hustles.

20:25

In being a board member for many

20:29

companies, as well as your

20:29

private angel investments, and

20:33

your support of charities, too.

20:33

And we talked about balance a

20:36

little bit before, but I guess

20:36

how do you juggle your

20:38

priorities within your portfolio

20:38

life? How do you determine what

20:42

time you're going to give to

20:42

each element you know throughout

20:45

your week?

20:46

I do think you need to be really intentional about this stuff.

20:48

Because otherwise, you know, a

20:51

lot of people are run by their

20:51

inboxes, for example, and then

20:54

you're letting someone else

20:54

essentially dictate or

20:56

prioritise what you do, because

20:56

the thing that's at the top of

20:59

your inbox is the thing that you

20:59

lay your attention to. So the

21:02

kind of urgent and important

21:02

matrix and thinking about the

21:06

intentionality behind how you

21:06

spend your time. So I think

21:09

there's a few different ways in

21:09

which I do this. One of which is

21:13

my husband. And I actually,

21:13

every year go through a set of

21:16

goal setting really, almost like

21:16

a OKR process. But ourselves as

21:21

individuals, which is both has a

21:21

mix of personal and professional

21:25

in it. So we'll create a number

21:25

of the goals that are most

21:28

important to us to do in that

21:28

given year. And we'd have a

21:31

lovely dinner and talk about it

21:31

together and critique each

21:34

other's and get to a final form.

21:34

And then we have a mid-year

21:37

check in and an end of year

21:37

review, which we sounds quite

21:41

formulaic, but is always really

21:41

fun, and always includes quite a

21:44

bit of alcohol. And I think

21:44

what's really helpful about that

21:47

is you I think you have to find

21:47

these punctuation points,

21:50

essentially, because life is

21:50

very busy and very fast moving.

21:54

And so you can pull your head

21:54

up, and three months have gone

21:56

by and, again, you've been

21:56

dictated by the here and now and

22:00

the things that are competing

22:00

for your time as opposed to the

22:02

intentionality of how you want

22:02

to spend it. And so putting

22:05

those punctuation points where

22:05

you have to take a big step

22:07

back, think about what you want

22:07

to achieve over a given period

22:11

of time. And don't narrow it to

22:11

something that's too short,

22:14

where you can't actually make

22:14

meaningful progress. But give

22:17

yourself six months or 12

22:17

months. And then someone who

22:21

knows you very well, who cares

22:21

for you who can help keep you

22:24

honest, essentially making sure

22:24

that you're sort of having those

22:26

check ins with with that person

22:26

as well. I think the other thing

22:29

that we learned that we've made

22:29

this change a few years ago, is

22:33

kind of as we were talking about

22:33

that concept of being

22:35

generative, if both of us are

22:35

going to be full time working

22:39

parents really involved in the

22:39

world involved in a number of

22:42

different initiatives that we

22:42

care about, the quantity of time

22:46

that we can spend, for example,

22:46

with our kids, or as a family

22:49

unit is always going to have

22:49

some ceiling on it.

22:51

Yeah.

22:52

And I

22:52

think genuinely, I am a better

22:55

mother and wife and daughter and

22:55

sister and friend and all the

22:57

rest of it because of all the

22:57

amazing stimulus that I get in

23:00

my, in my job in my working

23:00

portfolio. And so because that

23:05

quantity of time is capped to an

23:05

extent, I think we've just put

23:08

all our effort and focus into

23:08

making it as high quality as

23:12

possible when we're together. So

23:12

for us, I think that's worked

23:15

really well of saying you want

23:15

to do lots of different things,

23:18

you need to be able to do them

23:18

in an intense enough way where

23:21

you get value, even if the time

23:21

that you're able to allocate

23:24

them is still relatively constricted.

23:26

Yeah, I'm

23:26

really intrigued by this idea of

23:29

how you build up that energy

23:29

from one another. And yeah,

23:33

intensity doesn't have to be a

23:33

negative thing. Intensity, can

23:36

be a really, as you say,

23:36

generative thing.

23:39

For me it is I think it's different for different people, do your Myers

23:41

Briggs personality test, see

23:44

where you get your energy from?

23:44

But for me, really, it's about

23:47

people about other human beings

23:47

and being able to interact with

23:52

them and learn from them and

23:52

learn with them is something

23:55

that just gives me enormous energy.

23:57

And is that something that you also have reflected back to you in your

23:59

partnership with your husband?

24:02

Completely.

24:02

I mean, I think personality

24:04

wise, we're very different

24:04

actually, in the sense that we

24:07

have different profiles, we have

24:07

different MBTI profiles. But

24:11

actually, what I find is that

24:11

this sort of fundamental value

24:14

system is very much the same.

24:14

And we both I think, just have a

24:19

real passion for learning -

24:19

being continuous, lifelong

24:23

learners, for being really

24:23

curious. We're both involved in

24:26

very different things. And so

24:26

it's really fun to be able to

24:29

bring that into the relationship

24:29

and learn from each other and

24:32

what we're doing. You know, I

24:32

was listening actually to,

24:34

there's a famous marriage

24:34

counsellor, and Esther Perel,

24:38

who's done a whole bunch of

24:38

podcasts. And she's this amazing

24:40

individual. And she gave a talk

24:40

in London a year or two ago, and

24:44

I was listening to what she was

24:44

saying. And she essentially was

24:47

talking about how there's so many different types of relationships that can work,

24:49

obviously, and for some of them,

24:52

it's this, I own this realm, and

24:52

you own that realm and partner

24:55

together and that's the way in

24:55

which we have a productive

24:58

relationship and for others,

24:58

everything very intermingled.

25:01

And I think you want to get that

25:01

match right, right? You want to

25:04

sort of be cognizant that you

25:04

want to be in one or the other

25:06

category, I think both of us are

25:06

eating off of each other's

25:09

plates all the time in every

25:09

aspect of our lives type of

25:12

thing. And that works for us.

25:12

And it's great to have a partner

25:14

like that.

25:15

Yeah, I

25:15

mean, you do have very different

25:17

outlooks or different areas that

25:17

you work in. But do you often

25:21

collaborate? And would you have

25:21

any advice for people who are

25:24

hearing more and more now,

25:24

especially with people who are

25:27

facing redundancy, it's often

25:27

happening for both of them? And

25:30

then they think about, okay, how

25:30

can we work together? How can we

25:32

collaborate together? And that

25:32

could be excellent, or it can be

25:36

a big strain on the relationship?

25:38

Oh, definitely.

25:38

Do you have any advice?

25:39

Definitely, it's really funny, because when we were leaving, both of us are

25:41

running businesses in San

25:43

Francisco. And when we left to

25:43

move over to London, we were

25:47

figuring out what to do next.

25:47

And my husband has a very

25:51

creative marketing type of brain

25:51

and I have a much more

25:55

analytical mathematics type of

25:55

brain. And so it just seemed on

25:58

paper, like it would be this

25:58

perfect match. And we were like,

26:00

let's brainstorm some ideas. And

26:00

let's see if maybe we build a

26:04

business together. And so we got

26:04

out, there's a whiteboard, and

26:07

there was a pen. And I think

26:07

like 10 minutes later, we were

26:10

almost using that pen to sort of

26:10

sign the divorce paperwork type

26:13

of thing, like it was just, it

26:13

just clearly wasn't going to

26:15

work for the two of us.

26:15

Interestingly, though, it's

26:18

worked incredibly well in

26:18

another context. So we

26:21

collaborate on a philanthropic

26:21

initiative that we have around

26:24

Rare Disease Research. And that

26:24

is, that's just been an

26:28

extraordinary way of bringing

26:28

very differential skill sets to

26:31

the table. I think what what's

26:31

interesting about one versus the

26:34

other is for one of them, we are

26:34

collaborating on a project where

26:38

it's owned and operated by

26:38

someone else. And we are inputs,

26:42

and we're fueling that programme

26:42

in different ways.

26:45

Yeah,

26:45

Versus it

26:45

being something that is ours,

26:47

where there is one CEO or one

26:47

decision maker, and for us, I

26:51

think it's just worked a lot

26:51

better to be in the input

26:53

collaboration mode together, as

26:53

opposed to there being one

26:57

decision maker. And I suppose

26:57

the other thing, which isn't

26:59

maybe implicit in what I'm

26:59

saying, but I think really

27:01

understanding and knowing where

27:01

your great strengths are, but

27:05

your strengths tend to be the

27:05

areas that you're really good

27:08

at, you really enjoy. And I

27:08

think having the confidence in

27:11

that and leaning into that, but

27:11

also letting the other person

27:14

express where they have that,

27:14

more clear separation of roles,

27:18

responsibilities and

27:18

capabilities, probably will lead

27:21

to a much, much better outcome.

27:24

Absolutely,

27:24

you've given some amazing pieces

27:26

of advice. So thank you. And I

27:26

wonder what's the biggest lesson

27:31

you've learned or had to learn

27:31

within your time or as a

27:36

portfolio professional that you

27:36

would impart on anybody who is

27:39

working their way up? Or along,

27:39

perhaps, this career path? What

27:43

kind of stumbles? Have you had

27:43

that you thought? "Actually, if

27:45

I was to do that, again, I would

27:45

avoid that."

27:49

Yeah, I

27:49

think that the best decisions

27:51

that I've made, and conversely,

27:51

the worst decisions that I've

27:54

made, have all come down to

27:54

people, I tend to be quite

27:58

analytical and in my head, and

27:58

actually, this coach that I was

28:01

telling you about said to me the

28:01

other day said, I think you

28:04

treat your body is the way to

28:04

get your head around, it's like

28:06

you're not actually thinking

28:06

about your body at all, or what

28:09

it's telling you, it's just like

28:09

this vehicle to get the sort of

28:11

cerebral part of you around. And

28:11

I think sometimes you can

28:14

analyse an opportunity, a lot.

28:14

And you can say, well, gosh,

28:18

this is a really exciting market

28:18

or space, or look at the amount

28:20

of money that these guys have

28:20

raised or look at who else is

28:23

interested. And actually, the

28:23

reality is, I think, any company

28:27

any opportunity is just a set of

28:27

human individuals that are

28:29

working towards a common goal.

28:29

And all we know is that the

28:33

future is uncertain. That is the

28:33

only certainty that has been

28:36

absolutely validated by this

28:36

period of unprecedented economic

28:41

and environmental times. And so

28:41

I think not anchoring to that at

28:45

all and saying, hopefully, the

28:45

only constant here will be the

28:48

individual humans who are coming

28:48

around a project, an idea, a

28:52

company, an organisation, and so

28:52

tethering yourself to people who

28:57

you respect deeply, who you

28:57

think you have a lot to learn

29:00

from and with, who share the

29:00

same fundamental value system as

29:03

you do. I think those are the

29:03

most important things. And if

29:06

you get that right, then those

29:06

people that kind of human

29:09

capital is going to go off and

29:09

do extraordinary things. And so

29:13

even if that one first project

29:13

doesn't work out, the next one,

29:16

or the fifth one down the line,

29:16

to the famous Steve Jobs, quote

29:19

about not being able to connect

29:19

the dots looking forward. But

29:21

looking back, you absolutely can.

29:23

Yeah,

29:24

I think, you know, I wouldn't be where I am today, had it not been for a

29:25

few conversations with a few

29:28

extraordinary individuals that I

29:28

met along the way without a

29:32

preconception of, I'm doing this

29:32

to get to there. They just have

29:36

to be quite open, I think, to

29:36

the serendipity and listen to

29:39

your gut when you meet someone extraordinary.

29:41

Has that

29:41

been anyone along the way that

29:44

really stands out for you as a

29:44

role model, somebody that you

29:46

have come back to time and time

29:46

again, whether that's personally

29:49

or from afar? That has really

29:49

inspired that kind of outlook?

29:55

Yeah, definitely. I mean, many people actually, I have someone who I

29:57

consider as my mentor, I think

30:01

he would blush a lot if he knew

30:01

that I was calling him that. And

30:05

I don't think he would consider

30:05

himself that, which in part is

30:08

why I've gotten so much value

30:08

because it's been incredibly

30:11

organic, what sort of a formal

30:11

relationship.

30:14

Yeah,

30:14

But it's

30:14

someone who I just respect

30:16

hugely both personally and

30:16

professionally. And it's an

30:20

individual who had just

30:20

astronomical success in Silicon

30:25

Valley, quite reasonably early

30:25

on in his life. He was employee

30:29

number five at Google, and went

30:29

on to be their Chief Business

30:31

Officer and just an

30:31

extraordinary career. But

30:34

really, instead of getting any

30:34

ego and hubris from that,

30:38

actually is probably the most

30:38

humble person I've ever spoken

30:40

to, thinks back to actually the

30:40

trade offs, the sacrifices that

30:44

he had to make in order to build

30:44

that career. And one of which

30:47

was he and his wife at the time

30:47

separated, they had two young

30:51

kids, he didn't get to see them

30:51

as often as he would have liked

30:53

to. And he's trying to rectify a

30:53

lot of that in the life that he

30:58

leads now, which is still

30:58

incredibly high performance. He

31:01

was the executive chairman of

31:01

Twitter for a number of years,

31:03

has a number of board seats in

31:03

truly game changing global

31:06

organisations, but is a family

31:06

man in a way in which I've

31:10

rarely seen with anyone else

31:10

I've come across, has all of his

31:14

values in the right place,

31:14

talking more about his failures

31:17

than his achievements, and is

31:17

just someone who I aspire hugely

31:21

to in terms of how he's lived

31:21

his life. So certainly him and

31:24

then I would say, honestly, the

31:24

people in my partnership that I

31:27

get to work with every day. And

31:27

I do think that was the

31:29

culmination of many, many years

31:29

of saying, Well, if I get to

31:32

construct the reality in which I

31:32

live in every single day, then

31:35

these are the people that I want

31:35

to pinch myself that I get to

31:37

work with and for, and I have

31:37

that which is amazing.

31:40

Oh, that's brilliant. I think that is a perfect place to wrap up. It has

31:42

been truly a pleasure to talk to

31:47

you. I have learnt so much in

31:47

the last little bit and I wish

31:51

you every luck with everything

31:51

that Kindred is going to do and

31:53

you're going to do personally.

31:55

Thank you so much, Lexi. It was great fun.

31:57

Fantastic. Thanks very much.

31:59

All right. Take care. Bye.