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Postdoc Transformation, postdoc transformation.

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Postdoc transformation.

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Invest in your PostdocTransformation.

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Welcome to the seasonal show for scientists leaping into business.

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In every sponsored episode, we are happy to recommend employers of choice for you.

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Make sure to check your readiness to leap out of science with us for

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free, as linked in the show notes.

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For your career transition, we offer customized career transition

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e courses and memberships, also at graduate schools all over the world.

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Maybe yours too. And if your university isn't yet our customer, enroll in your free email

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course for career transition made simple as linked in the show notes.

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I'm your host, Professor Dr. Eleonore Soei-Winkels with my team who is rooting for you.

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And let's build your PostdocTransformation with this episode.

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As a seasoned professor of industrial and occupational psychology in Germany,

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and knowing what bachelor and master students learn in theory, I have to

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recognize that companies often complain about fresh graduates lacking workplace

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preparation and project management skills.

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And I haven't been in academia only, so I can also testament to when I

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leaped into my first role as an IT analyst at an international grocery

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discounter right after my PhD in neuroscience in 2008, I was literally

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overwhelmed and, I had to learn how to survive in the corporate world.

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That was quite a culture clash coming from academia.

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So, on top of that, I had to learn what was needed being a

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good IT analyst in business. So, if I could go back in time, I would disentangle these learning

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curves and luckily, times have changed.

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Now, I recommend Pharmuni e-courses which you can do before leaping into business.

2:06

So, if you are a master, bachelor student even, or a scientist without professional

2:11

industry and business experience, I recommend to level up your employability

2:17

with Pharmuni e-courses and certificates in for example, cultural sensitivity, time

2:23

management, team collaboration, emotional intelligence, supplier management,

2:27

business communication skills, preparing for job interviews, and maybe even

2:33

agile principles and project management. Taking these courses will prepare you for an international corporate career, just

2:40

like mine, before you onboard into your first role, so you can hit the ground

2:45

running in your role specifications.

2:48

If you are a scientist with a STEM research background who wants to

2:52

leap into the biotech, medtech, life science, pharmaceutical companies, I

2:57

recommend the Pharmuni e-courses and certificates in pharmacovigilance,

3:02

compliance, and quality assurance.

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These are all courses for both novices and seasoned professionals.

3:08

which will boost your industry excellence.

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And best of all, it's not just in theory.

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No, you get a certificate and all the job qualifications are endorsed by

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the esteemed ISO 9001 2015 Certified Zamann Pharma Support GmbH in Germany.

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And for this episode of our PostdocTransformation Show for

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scientists leaping into business, I'm excited to welcome Candice Quinn Zarei,

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who is the PharmUni Group Manager.

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She's Australian, living in Germany, and that's why you will listen to

3:45

a different voice in this show. She's all about bringing a new way to upskill, qualify, recruit, and

3:52

retain talent in the pharma industry.

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And that's why I'm so happy to have you in my show, Candice, not only

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for my PostdocTransformers, but also for my own students of industrial

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and occupational psychology. So, without further ado, dear Candice, the stage is all yours.

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Tell us what is your role at Pharmuni apart from being the group

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manager because I've seen you all over the place in media as well.

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And yeah, the stage is yours.

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Well, firstly, thank you so much for having me today.

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I've been really excited to talk to you yourself, knowing your experiences in

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the industry of coming from tech and also as a teacher for organizational behavior

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and psychology and HR, which as some big things that we talk about here at farm

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uni, but for me, my name is Candice and yes, I originally come from Australia and

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moved to Germany about five years ago to step into Zamann pharma support where.

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I originally was doing business improvement and project management.

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So looking at optimization of the business and really very quickly

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stepped into the world of learning and development and training.

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So taking, what we can do here and how we can upskill and

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qualify our own internal teams. Even though we were very small, four or five years ago, we had a

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very small team and have grown quite quickly, over the past few years.

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And yes, I do quite a lot of roles at

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Pharmuni aside from being the product owner, which is the person responsible for

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making sure that we have a really great ed tech platform that is all centered

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around The end users, customer and user centric designed, but also making

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sure we have really great e learning content that has learning objectives at

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the center of everything we do so that when you get qualified and you get the

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certificates from us, they show that you can actually do something at the end.

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I'm involved in the social media. I do the interviews.

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I do podcasts, really kind of the full scope, but that's really a great part

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of what I do and being essentially in the startup arm of what we do is you

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have to have multiple different hats.

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So, my goal is to tell you guys how you can get into the industry

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and really kind of set yourself for success at the end of the day.

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Oh, that's music in my ears really because I really try to sort of like help my

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students to embrace all kinds of roles and not just to stick into one role.

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At the beginning of the career, I always think that you shouldn't just

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drill down, but instead you should open up and try all different kinds

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of roles, because you'll never know what the future will hold for you.

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The more versatile you are, the better your chances are

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to move up the career ladder. Was also probably my case as well is, I have worked in so many diverse

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fields, within the realm of project management and business improvement,

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but I've worked in finance, I've worked in engineering, I've worked in

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IT, I've worked in highly regulated industries like workers compensation,

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pharmaceuticals and life sciences. And you really do find that the more skills you have, being kind of like

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that multi skilled employee, you have multidisciplinary approaches to what you

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do can really set you up for being able to move into so many different career paths.

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You might start in one direction and then with the skills that you gain, find

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that you really enjoy something else. And then you can kind of divert into that path and then just branch off

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into wherever you can go from there. All right, that's a reel in itself already about transferable skills and I will

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probably dissect that and post that also on social media because I really do think

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that the more you can approach things from multiple angles, the more you are

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valuable and bring something to the table.

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All right, so looking at the multiple angles that we have already talked about.

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For the pharmaceutical industry, which of the disciplines are relevant or is

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it all industries or all disciplines?

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What do you think? Is there a general educational scientific background that is a booster for a

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career in pharmacy in pharma industry? I think, you definitely have to start with your technical scientific capabilities,

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because when we're talking about the pharma and medtech industry, you have to

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have those core academic competencies, because if you're doing research and

8:20

development into drugs, or if you're looking at mechanical engineering for

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prosthetics, et cetera, you have to have that technical background, and that's

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where the higher education and academic setting really plays an important part.

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At the same time, when you're stepping into the world of finishing academia and

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into the business of working for a company that actually then wants to make and sell

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these products, and how you can contribute to that for yourself and for the

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communities is you do then need to factor in, The modern world that we now live

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in, it was very globalized industries.

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We have supply chains that run from Europe into South Africa,

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into Canada, into South America.

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And in regards to that, you need to now be a multi skilled employee.

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And this is something that I was recently researching and looking about is, last

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year, we had a really big focus on AI and the introduction of new technologies.

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We have a need to be very responsive to global pandemics very quickly, as we

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saw, probably from 2019, 2020 onwards.

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Therefore, we need people who are not just trained in probably traditional research

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methods, but also really up to speed very quickly on new research methods.

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And then also we need people who are looking at things

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like personalized medicine. So we have to start putting people at the center of all the designing of

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products and services in the industry.

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So, when you're talking about, is there one thing that people need to

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further themselves in the industry? I would say there's a core and that's probably going to be centered around

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what they're actually doing, whether it's a drug development, research, if it's

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to do with medical devices, but there's all the other things that you need.

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You need project management. You need to be a great leader.

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You need to understand documentation, and you can do that through the further

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education and training that you might not be able to access in academic setting

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because professors are very, very busy. They have a lot going on, they have their core curriculum that they need to teach.

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And then, you've got other people like ourselves who try and come in and

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kind of support that process for them. Yeah.

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Candice, that's, that really is again music in my ears because I

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I also have humanities and social sciences PhDs in my community, and

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within the PostdocTransformers so I really do think that for project

11:02

management becoming a leader. And, you know, working at the interface between development, but

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also bringing things to the market, sales and marketing, I think that

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there is a place for social scientists through qualitative research to

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understand what is really needed.

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On the individual level, instead of just the broader quantitative level.

11:26

So, that really is encouraging for many disciplines.

11:34

And once you have determined your readiness to leap and want to transition

11:38

into business or industries, then you can enroll in your free email course with

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10 actionable, bingeable email lessons until you start your job in business.

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You'll get 10 emails like this.

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Number one, how to leap out of science.

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Number two, how to build your sustainable LinkedIn profile.

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Number three, how to read social media and network.

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Number four, how to research your favorite jobs and employers.

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Number five, how to do information interviews to get insights.

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Number six, how to create your customized applications with ChatGPT.

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Number eight, how to apply to your favorite employers.

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Number nine, how to choose the right job offer.

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Number 10, how to prepare for your new job.

12:30

And, you already mentioned the pandemic.

12:34

Are there any other recent global events that have an impact on the pharmaceutical

12:39

companies or pharmaceutical industries?

12:41

I think, , for the pharmaceutical industry in particular, there is a

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really big shift, that we're seeing probably in the last four to five years

12:50

and that's around personalized medicines and patient centric approaches because

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you see lots of things in the news where in certain regions of the world,

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it's very expensive to buy medications, and the things that are really quite

13:05

essential for a person's health and safety, whereas in other regions of the

13:09

world, these things are more accessible. And I think this shift now is starting to change, whereas we're wanting

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to now make sure that the industry globally is more focused on making

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sure they have people and community at the center of what they do.

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And that really then falls into how we then educate and train people.

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Bringing up the leaders of tomorrow to have quality and patient

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safety at the center of everything that they create, which means

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that we need leadership skills. We need people from different disciplines moving into the industry, and that's

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why you're seeing probably as well in employment trends in pharma and med

13:52

tech, there's a really big shift for human resources, is a really big shift

13:57

for marketing and sales is a really big shift for IT Which is a very big up and

14:02

coming role, not just for developers, but people who can lead and manage IT

14:08

teams and how you integrate the world of agile development processes with a very

14:14

rigid quality management system approach and how you kind of connect these two

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departments together, which is luckily, something we did very successfully here,

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we worked very hard of integrating our IT and quality management teams together.

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So there's a really big shift in the structures of companies, the different

14:35

roles, and that's all to facilitate more people centered approaches in regards

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to creating medicines and devices that really, Improve the quality of life of

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people and doing it in a way where it's community focused and not profit focused.

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That's great news. The last bit, what you said about, it's not just profit focus that really is

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probably important for many scientists because scientists like I, myself,

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I didn't go into science because I wanted to earn a lot of money.

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I mean, you are probably more idealistic in the sense that

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you want to cure people's.

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diseases. Do you want to help make the world better?

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But I see a lot of scientists being dismayed at the slowness in science in the

15:24

sense of, you know, you are researching on cancer and therapeutics and medications.

15:31

And then it's so slow that at the end of the PhD, nothing evolves out of that,

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So, Candice, I want to switch gears a little bit.

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So, As I have now someone also who is trained in HR.

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What specific skills and experience, knowledge, or even certifications

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are needed to be successful in a corporate career in pharma industry?

15:57

When we talk about corporate and we talk about the different arms of

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research and development, I think that they're two different skill sets.

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They have some overlapping, but they are two very different skill sets.

16:07

So, when we're talking about the world of corporate, from my perspective, and

16:11

also from my experiences of as well of working in a corporate world for many,

16:16

many years now, is you need to be an outside the box thinker, you need to be a

16:21

great problem solver, and you need to be creative in that, you need to be a great

16:25

communicator, have leadership skills, and you also need to, in regards to your

16:30

communications, particularly if you are coming from the technical side of things.

16:34

So, just say you're in research and development, you might be

16:38

wanting to explain what you're doing to this side of the business.

16:44

You need to do that in a way where it's really easy to understand.

16:47

So, taking the technical jargon of what you might really easily understand and

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translating that in a way that people in the board can understand, you might

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have a project sponsor, you might have people who are sponsoring the funding

17:03

for your research and you need to explain things in a way that are really easy for

17:08

them to understand, but also vice versa.

17:10

If you're working in the corporate world, you might be in human resources.

17:14

You might be in management.

17:16

You might be doing strategic management. You might be in other arms where you're deciding where the business wants to

17:23

go and you need to communicate that in a way to your developers, whether it's

17:28

technology, pharmaceuticals or medtech in a way that they understand as well.

17:37

Remember, you are a postdoc transformer.

17:40

You are highly intelligent, well educated, a bachelor, master.

17:44

And maybe you have already your doctor under your belt, or you are a postdoc.

17:49

You are internationally experienced, fluent in English, a leader and

17:54

expert in your prior research field.

17:56

You're resilient, brilliant in adaptation and problem solving.

18:00

You are eager to bring in the transferable and monetizable

18:04

skills needed in many countries. To embrace the future and to become or remain an innovator in their markets.

18:16

And so, I would say the major skills for both, these arms, regardless if

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it's corporate or the technical side of things, is fabulous communication,

18:26

great leadership, great time management.

18:29

You need to be organized, organized, organized in this industry because it is

18:33

fast paced, and all of the companies, regardless of what size, if you're a

18:37

startup or a large corporate entity is, you always need to remain competitive.

18:42

So everything's fast paced in the industry.

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And then just probably one last skill that I don't think a lot of people consider in

18:52

the industry, is that you need to be able to also sell yourself in regards to you

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need to sell the great things that you do.

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So, if you're a tech person and you're wanting to move up into more leadership

19:08

roles of quality assurance or getting into business development, firstly, you need to

19:12

be able to communicate in a way that these guys understand, but you need to be able

19:16

to say this is the great work I've done.

19:19

This is how it's benefited the business. And this is how it's going to put you into the eyes of people who make the decisions

19:25

about where you go in your career. And also the same on the other side as well, you want to

19:30

move up the corporate ladder. You're in a junior role in HR.

19:34

You need to be able to show and demonstrate, things that you've done

19:38

that have contributed to moving the business in a positive direction.

19:42

Love it. I really love it. I mean, you've seen me laughing.

19:46

There are two things that you mentioned. And one is this being able to translate.

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Whatever you are conveying in your message for the target group.

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And I have been always preparing decision papers or presentations for the steering

20:02

board, but also I had to go down to sort of like the IT architects and

20:08

talk about their latest development.

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And they were talking about non functional, you know.

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And it was like, arguably important, but that's nothing

20:19

that I can present to the board.

20:22

So you have to find the balance, and to understand the gist of the things.

20:26

And that's really a skill that will help you survive and also

20:31

move up the career ladder. And the other thing that you mentioned was really about the selling aspect.

20:36

Many scientists think that marketing yourself into a

20:40

role and whatever, is cringe. I can see myself being also dismayed about that.

20:46

But I had to learn that working at Accenture, the global consulting company.

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And every year we had to campaign for ourself in the sense of

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what were my contributions? Why were they important?

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What did I do? What made me excel in that role?

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And how do I discern myself in the competition against the others?

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And that was the best learning curve that I could have ever

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Mm throughout. You know, these two or three years in learning that in the sense of what it

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makes me stand out today is the ability to say, yes, this is what I did, and this

21:24

is why it's helpful, and please share,

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mm And support my causes.

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I think that everyone who wants to succeed in corporate needs also

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the mindset of an intrapreneur.

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This entrepreneurial mindset in the sense of you need to craft yourself into a job.

21:44

You need to market yourself into a job. Whatever skills you need for the next position, it's your homework.

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No one will teach you that it's your homework and you need to identify

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whatever is needed and level up.

21:56

It's also like the element of personal branding, and I think it's such

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a key word in a lot of corporate companies I've worked for before,

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and honestly, early in my career, I didn't take it very seriously at all.

22:07

I thought, you know, my work will speak for itself.

22:10

You know, at the end of the day, what I've produced is going to.

22:14

They're going to look at that and be like, you're the one for the

22:16

job, and it doesn't work like that.

22:19

We, as human beings, when we talk about organizational psychology,

22:23

people are very driven by, what they see, how you present yourself,

22:29

how you talk, how you network.

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I really didn't understand networking when I first stepped into the corporate

22:35

world, but it was really important.

22:38

Getting to know people, introducing myself, telling them about my work,

22:42

spreading the word, and that becomes then an impression that they have of you.

22:48

And then that combined with your work is really balancing out and setting the

22:54

stage for you to be someone that people can look to when they're wanting to fill

22:59

a position or they're wanting to put you in charge of a particular project

23:03

because they also know you a bit more from , outside of just your work perspective.

23:09

So, personal branding is super, super important that goes into how

23:13

you present yourself online, your LinkedIn, what things you talk

23:17

about, how you engage with different projects and community activities.

23:22

We live in such a massive globalized world these days, and probably maybe 7,

23:27

8 years ago, it was only very new for HR to probably go online and see what people

23:33

are doing, but it's very, very common now.

23:35

And so it's really important that with your own personal branding,

23:39

whether it be in the company and the work that you do, and being able

23:44

to, to market yourself in that way.

23:46

You also have to remember that online, you've gotta market yourself the same.

23:50

Absolutely. And it's also this external marketing is not just confined to the online presence,

23:57

which is arguably easier, I would say, because you need to also stay, you know,

24:03

up to date with networking at industry events that you have with suppliers,

24:10

So, once you want to have more of the stakes, you have to also

24:14

level up and find key stakeholders, and these are not always online.

24:21

So, you have to also be able to network and level up your networking.

24:30

Have you found this episode so far helpful for yourself?

24:33

Well, maybe you can subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts,

24:37

Popin, or wherever you get our show. And also, share this episode with your PhD bestie because that would

24:43

encourage us to help the underprivileged, underrepresented, and underserved early

24:48

career scientists leaping into business.

24:51

This would also ensure that you don't miss a future episode.

24:55

Also, Our subscription and listening numbers are key for finding the

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right sponsors for our show so that we can help you for free.

25:03

And now back to the show. So, when we switch gears again, Candice, what do you think are the most

25:16

important ethical considerations in the pharmaceutical companies or industries?

25:21

Because when I look at personalized medicine and the way it's

25:26

accessible through the different regions that you have mentioned.

25:30

I think there's a multitude of ethical considerations in the pharmaceutical

25:34

industry, starting at everything from the focus of companies, you know,

25:39

why are you creating your products? Are you creating them just to make money or are you actually creating

25:44

these products to benefit humanity and society as a general, which falls

25:50

into who can access these products?

25:53

Is this just a product that you're going to sell in your region?

25:56

Or are you going to make this a product that's accessible, not just location

26:01

wise, but financially wise for people?

26:04

Because, in regards to the historical context of the industry, and when

26:08

we're talking about money, this is a trillion dollar industry.

26:12

When we put it all together, it is a great way for companies to make a lot of money.

26:18

However, in the long run, when we're talking about making sure that we

26:25

have people in the industry, we have an aging population and there's a

26:29

big gap in the aging population.

26:31

So, we have a lot of people who are in the baby boomer age groups that

26:36

are now setting into retirement and there's a massive age gap here.

26:40

And the younger people are not stepping into the industry because

26:44

they don't know that it's not just about making money in the industry.

26:48

You have an opportunity to really make a difference, so, ethical concerns, I think

26:52

from a money side of things, we should really make sure we keep a focus on so

26:57

that when we're bringing people into the industry, we're educating them on what

27:01

they can do what intrinsic benefits there are, as opposed to the extrinsic benefits.

27:07

And also, when we're talking about ethical considerations for things

27:11

like AI, I'm a big believer in tech.

27:15

I love tech. I build an edtech product.

27:18

I love AI. I think that it has the opportunity to really benefit us in a way, whereas

27:24

we can do a whole heap of things, and not take so much time in order

27:29

to do them, which can free us up to be more creative thinkers in ways.

27:33

But at the same time, I think we need to be careful with that because what we

27:36

feed into AI is what we get out of it.

27:40

And so I think, there's always pros and cons to these things.

27:44

So I think it just is a matter of when we're engaging with technology, it's

27:49

how we use the technology, how we feed information into the technology, and

27:54

then also making sure that the data sets we do give it are not just based

27:59

on a particular region or a particular philosophy or ideology, that it is

28:04

really everyone globally feeding the information in so that it can learn,

28:09

and we can foster that learning in a way that's really productive for us.

28:14

That really brings us to the term of person job fit, I also teach my students

28:20

to understand that your personality is important to consider and whatever your

28:25

values are, that should also drive your applications for this company or this

28:31

company, even within a given industry like the pharmaceutical companies, right?

28:37

You need to understand what drives you and maybe you want to rather work

28:41

for a startup that is more aligned to your own vision of life, and all

28:45

your values that are important for you instead of joining a big major

28:51

player who probably is very mature, who won't change because everything

28:55

has been working so fine for them. So why should they change?

28:59

So, there are important considerations for your own job application and I

29:03

think that you have mentioned a lot of things that should be factored in.

29:07

You were talking also about opportunities and that sort of like rang a bell.

29:12

So, what are the biggest opportunities for growth in the moment in your industry,

29:22

think the biggest opportunity is for firstly IT, because there is a really

29:30

big boom now in regards to technology in the industry, whether it's from

29:35

digitalization, um, you know, there's still a lot of companies that are

29:39

paper based, in today's modern world, which It's quite a surprise for me.

29:44

And so it could be as simple as digitalization right through to

29:48

having a data analysts who are going to manage all of your big data, IT

29:53

developers who are going to be creating bespoke in house software, and that

29:58

then brings an opportunity for HR.

30:01

And the learning and development teams, because you then need to

30:05

start getting your head around, how to hire these different roles.

30:09

So, IT has a completely different, working mode, different principle.

30:14

When we're talking about agile methodology, Scrum, Kanban, Waterfall,

30:18

all of these things, you know, some, people in recruitment might go, Oh, I

30:23

don't know what these are, or learning and development might go, now we need

30:28

to train maybe some of our managers who are going to lead these teams in

30:32

these principles and values so that we can integrate them into the business.

30:36

And so I think there's a lot of opportunities for growth in IT.

30:40

I also think there's a really massive growth opportunity in regards to project

30:46

management, because we are now seeing lots and lots of startup companies in the

30:52

pharmaceutical and medtech environment. I work with lots of them here in the Hessen area, particularly down

30:58

in Heidelberg and what they really need is people to manage these

31:03

projects to help them get their product from research and development.

31:07

We've got a product. We have it here now. We have no idea what to do with it to get it on the market.

31:12

Okay. How do we project manage this? Okay.

31:14

We need people in quality management and quality assurance who

31:18

understand the regulatory nuances of getting it into clinical trials

31:24

and then getting it packaged. Okay.

31:26

If we need packaging, then we need people in marketing and sales

31:30

who know how to package a market for the pharmaceutical industry.

31:33

Again, it's an opportunity for HR to start recruiting and bringing in

31:38

these new roles into the industry. So probably IT, HR and training, learning and development, to be able

31:45

to bring new roles into the industry.

31:48

Which means they need to upskill themselves in what these roles do.

31:51

How do we integrate them from an organizational behavior sense in

31:55

merging these very flexible yet very static departments and also

32:01

for marketing and sales as well.

32:03

There's a really big opportunity to work with smaller startup

32:07

companies who need that assistance in how to get their product from.

32:13

I have a great idea can really help people.

32:15

So how do I now get it out into the world?

32:22

That's interesting. And the technology to manufacture, is it changing for pharmaceutical companies?

32:28

And also the manufacturing practice, are there any do's and don'ts and

32:33

how do you manage the manufacturing?

32:36

I would say, the first probably part of that when we're talking about GMP

32:41

and good manufacturing practices is this is such an important topic that

32:46

requires not just initial training, but retraining consistently every year.

32:51

So, as a general compliance training in the industry and to also make sure

32:56

that the philosophy and principles of quality at the center of everything

33:01

you do in GMP is always reiterated.

33:05

That involves whether you're doing training online, like with Pharmuni

33:08

and our GMP courses that we have in there, and then those people then

33:12

being able to train other people within the business in that aspect.

33:16

I think GMP, doesn't really just encompass the process of as an

33:22

example, in a production facility where you have a thing starting here

33:26

and going through the production line, getting packaged and sent out.

33:28

GMP covers things like quality management.

33:33

It covers batch production. It covers documentation.

33:38

It covers pharmacovigilance. It covers compliance.

33:42

So, there's a whole different set of sub topics or focus areas within the kind of

33:48

realm of GMP and GMP in itself is a global standard, that's regulated, it's governed.

33:55

The FDA has some very clear regulations around that.

33:59

And that's why there's global standards set in place for that.

34:02

And then when we're talking about GMP in regards to technology changes, this

34:07

is where we again come into different topics like device qualification,

34:12

computer systems validation, and you need to have staff who are

34:17

trained in these, and they might be trained in sub areas of these topics.

34:21

So, for computer systems validation, you might have the people who need to

34:26

write all the user requirements for that, then to be tested and validated.

34:31

For device qualification, you might have sub areas within that where you need

34:36

to upskill people in how to request the demand from the supply for the device.

34:42

You need to then do user specification checking.

34:45

You then need someone to test it at the factory facility,

34:48

test it on site, validate it.

34:51

And then if the device comes with software, again, you

34:53

need to do CSV with that. So, as technology changes in the industry, which we are going to see,

35:00

new practices coming into the industry.

35:03

In regards to testing, particularly with robotics and such coming in, more so

35:09

than this manual hands on approach, we're seeing a really big buildup of that.

35:13

You need to have in the world of GMP, device qualification, CSV, GMP practices,

35:21

compliance, supplier management, the full kind of end to end life cycle.

35:26

Thank you for this detailed overview of the supply chain, I love it because

35:30

I'll take this bit and show that to my students because I'm always talking about

35:35

the supply chain and that they have to understand who's next in line and after

35:40

that position so that they understand the value that is created, the value add, etc.

35:46

So, that is a great practical example.

35:50

So, thank you for that, Candice. When we are talking to the various disciplines who are sort of at the

35:56

fence of applying to the pharmaceutical companies because they don't bring

36:01

the specific core skillset that you have mentioned, what are the

36:06

biggest misconceptions about the pharmaceutical companies and industries?

36:10

I would say, the biggest misconception is that the larger companies are where you

36:15

are going to get all your opportunities. Because I would say particularly when we're talking about if you're wanting

36:23

to have an impact in regards to what you can develop, what you can't develop,

36:28

whether that's the medicines or it's IT is, and this is also a mistake

36:33

I know I made early in my career is that going for the larger companies,

36:38

because thinking that they have all the resources, they have all the money.

36:42

This is where I'm going to be able to excel because they're going

36:45

to give me those opportunities. But the misconception there is that, in larger companies, if

36:52

you're really fortunate enough to get placed in a team that gives you that

36:55

freedom to do that, that's fabulous.

36:58

But the majority of the time you might be placed in a team where

37:01

they just want you to do this thing. They want you to process this and that's it.

37:05

And that's because they have multiple layers of decision makers, and your

37:10

decision making power might be down here, whereas there's five levels up

37:14

in the hierarchy of someone making a decision here strategically,

37:18

where they want that to go. Whereas I found that, in the industry, there are so many SME companies, small

37:26

to medium enterprises, even startup companies where you could be placed

37:31

in a position or in a team where you have more decision making power in

37:36

regards to what you're going to develop.

37:39

So, if you're talking about us at Pharmuni in regards to our IT development, our

37:44

IT guys have a really big play and say in regards to which direction we go

37:49

down, because I'm not an IT developer and I'm not experienced in that area.

37:55

And so we really collaborate in a way, whereas we give them that

37:59

power to help make decisions in regards to what this is going to

38:03

look like, how it's going to be used.

38:06

We give them the information from a business strategic sense in regards

38:09

to this is what we want to do. This is why we want to do it.

38:13

And then you can tell us how we can do that. Then also if you're looking at from maybe a corporate side of the business, when

38:20

we're talking about maybe human resources, if you're stepping into an SME, or a

38:25

startup company, you're really going to have more of an opportunity to define

38:30

things like the onboarding processes, how you train people, deciding what type of

38:36

user roles you have in the business and who needs to be trained, what, when, how,

38:40

and also then having more of a decision making power into employee experience

38:46

programs, like how your teams are actually experiencing the workplace environment.

38:52

And so I think, yeah. To summarize that really the misconception in that big companies is where you're

38:58

going to find all the opportunities. You might find great money.

39:01

That's awesome. And if that's your goal, then go in that direction.

39:07

If you have a different goal in mind for yourself, if you're someone who

39:12

wants to really feel like you could make a difference somewhere, and you're

39:17

focused on creating great products and great tools, and you're focused on

39:21

helping people, then I would look at small to medium enterprise and startup

39:25

companies, because I think that's where you're going to find your opportunity

39:30

to really make a positive difference. Wow, that's something that I would echo as well.

39:34

You have pharmaceutical companies who are also in your job board at

39:39

Pharmuni and who are waiting for the candidates who took the courses that

39:45

are even certified ISO 9001 2015.

39:50

So, can you elucidate which of the companies are partnering with Pharmuni?

39:55

Well, currently we have a few partners in there that are a part of our test program.

39:59

Cause we've just launched the recruitment tool.

40:01

So, we have obviously ourselves, we have a couple that are

40:05

now being verified as well. One of the things that's really important for us here in this space

40:09

of the recruitment is that we know in the pharmaceutical industry and

40:14

med tech, it's really hard to find particular roles and people for

40:18

particular topics and focus areas. And so everyone who comes into the platform and takes our courses or job

40:26

qualifications, you're building your CV profile in there while you're doing that.

40:31

So, we have the resume builder, we have the cover letter builder and

40:34

we have all your certifications stored in there and you can elect to

40:38

share that in the talent pool, which is what the recruiters will see.

40:43

And so, when the recruiters come in, and post their jobs, you can

40:47

actively apply for those roles. But at the same time, the companies, if you've enabled the talent search

40:53

abilities, then they can come in and search for, I'm looking for people

40:58

who, in education, your resume, you have a bachelors in this, but

41:01

you also have good manufacturing practices, or I'm looking for people

41:05

who have computer systems validation. I can see these people have done this certificate and they will

41:10

actively contact out to those people through our application.

41:14

And so the goal of that is to make sure that we can match make

41:18

these people together, and be have more of a proactive approach in

41:22

regards to the recruitment process.

41:25

For companies when we're talking about startups or SMEs as well as giving

41:29

them the opportunity to actively seek people and candidates who they know

41:35

are qualified for particular topics.

41:39

And, it is very hard to find people in regulatory, QA, CSV

41:44

or device qualification. And so our goal is to make sure that when you go through the courses, we

41:52

know exactly what you've been trained. We know, what areas that need to be covered for these roles.

41:57

And so when you get the certification, which has the ISO notification on that,

42:02

the companies can be assured that, okay, we're getting someone that we know is

42:07

covered the focus areas that we need.

42:09

That is great. And that echoes what I already said, right?

42:12

So when you join a company right from the bench, you don't

42:17

have this business experience.

42:19

And then you can do this already during grad school, in your final

42:23

PhD years, or even as a postdoc, but before you onboard into your new role.

42:30

All right. So that's great. And now I'd love to learn more about you, Candice, because I know that

42:36

you have been doing so many things in business already, and now it's time

42:41

to, maybe you want to share that, but what are your own career aspirations?

42:45

What are your own plans? Because that really is inspiring for my own students of industrial

42:50

and occupational psychology, because maybe learning and development is

42:53

not the final take for them, but what else is there for someone like you.

42:58

Wow. I really do have many aspirations for myself because I am a very driven

43:04

person and I found the older I get, the more driven and the more aspirations

43:09

I have, because as you grow and evolve in your career and you start building

43:14

on that skill set, you realize how much you can do, and what areas

43:19

that you could possibly step into.

43:21

Probably for myself in regards to Pharmuni, what I'm doing, I really want

43:29

to make sure that after we've finalized all of our new recruitment tools and

43:34

our inner application processes is that we start building our skill tree.

43:40

So, making sure that when you're in the application, you can go through an

43:46

assessment to kind of look at a skills gap analysis, see where you could up skill.

43:51

Or alternatively, if you're looking at particular roles in the industry,

43:55

you'll be able to map out where you need to qualify yourself.

43:59

You'll be able to see it visually, and then that will feed into the talent

44:03

pool for the recruiters so that they can see, wow, we've got heaps of people

44:07

here qualified for device qualification or even being an IT product developer

44:13

or product owner, which is my role.

44:16

We've got so many people here qualified for this now that we know who to hire.

44:20

So that's probably one goal for me is to make sure that having this really

44:25

great end to end tool ready to go.

44:28

In regards to my own learning, though, and own career development, I really

44:34

want to step more into the world of probably some technical topics of It.

44:42

I'm starting to become really interested now in more of the analytical side of

44:48

things, how to track customer journeys, what we need to do in regards to code

44:53

snippets for Google tags and Google analytics and Google ads, and then that

44:58

feeds into learning more about marketing.

45:01

So, now that I've kind of stepped into that area as well, I'm starting to get

45:06

quite interested in communications, being able to understand the process

45:14

of engaging with your ICP, your ideal customer profile, and how you can bring

45:21

that person through a journey to engage with you and your product in a way that

45:26

is valuable and meaningful for them.

45:28

And it's actually quite interesting. It's quite tricky.

45:32

It's not as simple as putting out a post and hoping people engage with it.

45:36

It's a lot of work, it takes a lot of brain power, a lot of creativity.

45:41

And I think for me delving into some technical stuff with analytics and also

45:48

more into the marketing and communication side will be a professional goal for

45:52

me, probably over the next 12 months and then we'll see where we go from there.

45:57

Wow. We need to talk offline about that.

46:00

So for all PostdocTransformers who've been listening and thinking of how

46:05

can we join Pharmuni and how can we capitalize on the things that we can

46:11

do already during grad school to make ourselves visible for potential employers.

46:17

Is there anything that you can share with us?

46:19

Absolutely. I would possibly pop two hats on with this answer.

46:22

And one would be from the employer perspective and one

46:25

would be from a grad perspective.

46:27

So, if you're studying, if you're postgraduate, if you're a bachelor's,

46:31

master's, whatever level you're currently at at the moment, I would really highly

46:36

recommend heading over to Pharmuni com because you can sign up for a free

46:40

account on Pharmuni and take some of our free courses already on there.

46:45

Experience the platform, see how we educate, go through the course, the

46:49

assessment, get your certificate and start building up that profile

46:53

because there really is in Pharmuni no time limit in what you can do that.

46:57

So, you can schedule this in with your current, timetable that you have

47:02

for your studies and your curriculum. So, moving and making that , flexible around your own schedule, which is

47:08

really important for us because we know you guys are very, very busy.

47:11

But also then from a recruiters perspective, I would highly recommend

47:17

that you also go to Pharmuni. com, sign up for a free Pharmuni business account.

47:22

So it's free to have an account in there and you can go in

47:25

and post your job for free.

47:27

Go in and have a look at the application, engage with that, and go

47:32

in and see all the courses we have, because it might also be that maybe

47:37

you've got some people in your teams that you want to upskill as well.

47:40

So, head on over and take our courses.

47:42

All right, and to make sure that you have all the perks, please

47:46

make sure that you use the link in the show notes that goes to www.

47:51

pharmunity. com, but it essentially is my affiliate link so that everyone

47:57

knows that you're coming as a PostdocTransformer, well qualified

48:01

already, and with the right appetite to digest all the e courses at Pharmuni.

48:09

And then, we also need to talk about this gap at universities where we, as

48:16

professors, may lack in the qualification.

48:19

And I know that you have also some collaborations with

48:24

other universities, right? So, can you allude to that also?

48:27

Maybe there is someone within the PostdocTransformers who can make

48:32

a difference at their graduate school at their university.

48:36

Yeah, definitely. We have a program called The UP program, which is a university partnership

48:41

program, and the sole goal of that is to help universities enhance the

48:47

academic experience by filling the gap.

48:49

They don't have time or the resources to teach these additional things that

48:54

the industry is really looking for. So, the UP program offers universities completely free access to the

49:01

application for their students. So, they come and sign up, on board with us.

49:05

We do between six and 12 months, depending on what they feel like.

49:09

And the students can come in and take all of the courses, for free.

49:14

And then for us, what we do is collaborate with the university to make sure

49:18

that, they will be able to enhance, their likelihood of the students moving

49:26

out of academia and into employment.

49:28

So we're currently writing a GMP Annex 1 course in alignment with

49:32

them and they'll continue for another 12 months for their students.

49:35

And they've decided that for this summer intake, they're actually integrating

49:40

Pharmuni into a quality management course as part of their bachelor program.

49:45

That's great. And I also teach intercultural psychology.

49:49

We haven't discussed that. But when I looked at the course that you have at Pharmuni, I was like,

49:54

I'm just offering them an exam, but that same content could become

50:00

a certificate that really makes a difference in your job search.

50:04

So, I recommend highly, I highly recommend joining Pharmuni when

50:09

you are at university, when you are in graduate school, so that

50:12

you can hit the ground running in your role specific qualifications.

50:17

Candice, it was such a pleasure to talk to you!

50:25

Do you want a transcript of our episode? And our episode sponsors answers to all six bold questions so

50:31

that you can choose to apply. Do you want to nominate your potential employer of choice so that

50:37

we can ask them our bold questions?

50:39

For all of that, click on our links in our show notes and on our website, www.

50:44

postdoctransformation. com.

50:47

Remember to check your readiness to leap out of science and to

50:50

enroll in our free email course Career Transition Made Simple.

50:54

Thanks for your attention. I'm Professor Dr. Eleonore Soei-Winkels, the host of your seasonal PostdocTransformation show.

51:00

Post Hoc Transformation