0:00

Hi, I'm Mandelyn Royal and I would like

0:02

to welcome you to another episode of the

0:04

Poultry Keepers podcast. Joining

0:06

me are John Gunterman and Rip Stalvey,

0:09

the rest of our podcast team and we're looking

0:11

forward to visiting with you and

0:13

talking poultry from feathers to function.

0:26

Another thing I think a

0:28

lot of people don't do, and

0:30

they should be doing, is weigh

0:33

your birds. I see

0:35

a lot of birds in shows that

0:37

are too big and some that

0:40

are too small.

0:41

And I've also seen birds that I thought looked

0:43

great. And I picked them up and like, where is this

0:46

thing? It's all fluff and feather.

0:48

I've seen as much as three

0:50

to four pounds discrepancies

0:53

from bird to bird within the same

0:55

breed, same age, same

0:57

environment with huge discrepancies.

1:01

The standard specifies weights

1:03

for cockerels. Weights for pullets,

1:06

weights for cockbirds, and weights

1:08

for hens. Now, you're allowed

1:11

20 percent over or under, okay?

1:14

But anything outside of that disqualifies

1:17

that bird from competition.

1:19

Yeah. I thought it was one pound

1:21

up or down, but it's 20%?.

1:22

If you do the math, it's pretty close.

1:24

We talked about wings and tails. We

1:27

also need to address feather quality, and

1:29

Mandy, you Almost got there when you were

1:31

talking about the shape of the feathers

1:33

in the wings.

1:34

Now, isn't it like, for example, with

1:36

a wing feather, you want as

1:39

much feather material on both

1:41

sides of the shaft of the feather,

1:43

right? You shouldn't see no,

1:46

the leading edge of the primaries will

1:49

be naturally narrower. Then

1:51

the following edge, or the back edge,

1:53

the edge closest to the body. Oh,

1:56

okay. Now, secondaries

1:58

are much more even, but on the primaries

2:01

you get this variation. But,

2:04

the standard will prescribe feather

2:07

quality to an extent. It's,

2:10

they'll say it should be broad,

2:13

some will say narrow, and some of

2:15

it depends on the breed, like

2:17

your harder feathered birds that carry those

2:20

feathers closer to the body tend

2:22

to have a slightly narrower feather structure

2:25

than birds like Asiatics, Orpingtons

2:29

and some of those.

2:29

Oh, that makes sense. And then you add in that fluff

2:32

factor and how fluffy they are or are

2:34

not and the length of the feathers.

2:36

Stop picking on my birds, Mandy. I

2:39

didn't. I didn't even say your name. I know. I

2:41

know I'm just sensitive about my fluff factor,

2:44

but that is specified in the standard and

2:47

it actually has pictures of how

2:49

far up the shaft the fluff should extend.

2:52

And your breed is going to be specific

2:55

though.

2:56

The more fluff you have on a feather, the

2:59

more loosely feathered it makes them look,

3:01

just because it provides that. Extra

3:04

little bit of loft to physically

3:06

lift and separate those feathers a little bit.

3:08

Yeah, and it prevents them from being able

3:10

to tighten it down.

3:12

Yeah. And that's how you can achieve type through feathers.

3:15

I want a really nice hard outer shell

3:17

to ward off wind and any potential

3:20

snow in my case, or rain.

3:23

I'll

3:25

actually look at feathers from the breast area

3:28

or the very top of the back

3:30

up between the hackles and the

3:33

saddle feathers and get an idea for

3:35

feather width, feather shape and

3:38

feather quality. If you'll take

3:40

the back of your hand and

3:42

start at the bird's hackle and

3:45

just slide it down on top of

3:47

the feathers from the neck to

3:49

the tail. You can really

3:51

feel the feather quality, if it feels

3:54

very slick and smooth, like silk cloth,

3:57

that's good feather quality. If

3:59

it feels rough, not so

4:01

much. And you can also

4:03

pluck a feather out and

4:06

hold it up to the light. If

4:08

you can see through it, you don't

4:10

have a very substantial feather.

4:13

That makes sense.

4:14

And that all goes back to genetics and nutrition.

4:17

Yes, exactly.

4:19

Should it be thick? And if it's not,

4:21

why not?

4:23

And I noticed new this year in some of my

4:25

pullets, they're developing a

4:27

cushion. And when you see

4:29

a cushion on a female, that's where it's

4:31

real fluffy and bouncing up off

4:33

the back in front of the tail. And

4:35

the saddle area and it,

4:38

there's varying degrees. Cause normally

4:41

my birds are pretty well tightly

4:43

feathered and it's all smooth. There's no

4:46

jumped up fluff or what do you call it? Volume.

4:48

They don't have any volume, but

4:51

some of these that I'm seeing this year are

4:54

getting a pretty well defined

4:56

cushion, which is weird. I don't even know where that's

4:58

coming from.

4:58

So I tell you

5:01

what you do, pull out a feather.

5:04

From that cushion area on

5:06

a bird that has it, and

5:09

you pull out a feather from the same

5:11

location on a bird that doesn't

5:13

have it. Look at the amount of fluff

5:16

between the two.

5:17

Ah, is where that extra volume's coming from. So

5:19

somehow I added more fluff than what they had

5:21

before.

5:23

And how much of that can be a response to

5:26

local environment and just epigenetic development.

5:29

I wonder if for the time

5:31

of year they were hatched.

5:32

I don't think so. I'm seeing

5:35

cushions on Rhode Island

5:37

Reds that I never saw before. It's

5:40

just not paying attention to the

5:42

fine details. When you're evaluating

5:45

your birds. You've got a lot

5:47

more ratio of fluff

5:49

to web of the feather. In some

5:51

instances, you have a longer feather,

5:54

which will give you a looser look. I'll

5:57

go back through my adults again for the 1,

6:00

000th time and see if I find somebody with a long

6:02

saddle feather on a female that may

6:05

be producing cushion.

6:07

So if you've got three or four birds lined

6:09

up next to each other and they're all of equal

6:12

conformation and you're looking

6:14

at those finer points, feather

6:17

quality is for sure one of them.

6:19

It's on the list just not the top of the list.

6:22

Feather quality is also directly

6:24

related to the sheen of a bird,

6:27

the shininess of the feathers, and

6:29

when you start losing your feather quality the

6:32

feather surface begins to take

6:34

on a slightly duller look and

6:37

not as shiny.

6:39

When you described that feel earlier,

6:41

Rip, that's something that you're not going

6:43

to be able to change for

6:45

a show by putting a show sheen

6:48

or shine or whatever they call it on

6:50

your bird. You'll, even if the feather is shiny

6:53

you'll still be able to feel that. Little

6:55

roughness of the feather

6:57

versus the silky quality underneath.

7:00

And you'll probably be able to feel that it was sprayed

7:02

with this juice. Anyways, you have

7:04

to go wipe your hands.

7:06

I have literally seen people

7:08

put so much of that stuff on the birds.

7:11

It's hard to hold them. I've nearly dropped

7:13

birds before because they were so slick

7:15

from having that show sheen sprayed on

7:17

them.

7:18

And then it's on your hands the rest of the day. Yeah.

7:21

Hand wipes.

7:22

I've had to go stop what I was doing

7:24

and go wash my hands. And

7:28

when they're spraying it, particularly on concrete floors,

7:30

it gets on the floor and it makes the floor slick.

7:33

It's like being on ice. You

7:35

can put a great shine on a bird with

7:38

nothing more complicated than a silk

7:40

cloth, just rubbing the feathers

7:43

with it.

7:44

Or a garden hose on a

7:46

nice warm sunny day.

7:48

Yeah, it doesn't hurt your birds to get wet.

7:51

I think the birds that have access

7:53

to the environment and get rained on regularly

7:56

look better naturally. They also learn

7:58

to preen

8:00

take care of themselves, I believe, versus

8:02

a just a coop kept

8:04

bird. I know one Sumatra

8:06

breeder. That he would regularly

8:08

go out there and spray his males down with

8:10

a water hose. And he had

8:12

some of the best sheen and best quality

8:15

on those birds I've ever seen.

8:17

I've been definitely guilty of, I

8:19

would call it rinsing my birds. I don't wash them

8:21

cause any natural oils that are there. I don't

8:24

want to. Take away by using anything

8:26

that's detergent based.

8:27

Just a light misting is all it takes.

8:29

Yeah, garden hose, spray 'em down and

8:31

on hot days, my Chantecleres definitely

8:33

appreciate a nice little misting with a garden

8:35

hose or just a sprinkler going

8:37

back and forth. Oh my gosh. There.

8:40

If you want some entertainment on a hot day, put

8:43

a sprinkler out and put it on oscillation

8:45

back and forth, and watch your chickens chase the water.

8:47

It's really quite fun.

8:48

I've done it for ducks, but I've never done it for chickens.

8:51

Oh yeah, they love it.

8:53

Mine will actually walk under it and

8:55

hold their wings out as it sweeps

8:57

back and forth. It's like the undercarriage wash on

8:59

a car wash. And then after

9:01

it goes by, they shake like a dog. I

9:03

think it's funny and cute, if you're not out there observing

9:06

your birds and just getting joy

9:08

and, having fun with them that

9:10

don't bother keeping them. And

9:12

that's part of chickening is just

9:14

watching your birds and knowing them. I can just

9:17

based on the way they walk or run, I can tell which

9:19

one of my birds is which one of my permanent

9:21

birds. If I've got a big grow out of, 60

9:23

or 80 birds on the ground, that's not happening, but

9:26

the big ones.

9:27

It doesn't take me very long to find my individuals

9:29

and be able to find them again, without

9:31

any sort of. ID or

9:33

label, like I have this one pullet right now,

9:35

and she, I will spot her out

9:37

of a flock of 100.

9:39

The way she moves and the way she interacts, you're

9:41

like, there she is.

9:43

She's a door greeter, she comes running up to the

9:45

front of the pen and stands there. And

9:47

I could just reach down and pick her up. And I don't

9:49

raise them to be that way. We're a dual purpose flock.

9:51

I'm not trying to have them be that way.

9:54

But she has decided, you

9:56

know what? I'm special and you're going to treat me like

9:59

I am special. So I'll give her a little handful

10:01

of a snack. So now she

10:03

does it reliably.

10:04

It's those birds that are the first ones out and

10:06

want to go explore. They're the natural

10:08

leader of the cohort where everybody will be like, okay,

10:10

no, you go, he'll go. And then, they'll

10:12

go and they'll check it out and be like, okay, it's

10:15

cool. And then everybody will run over. They're

10:17

the special birds.

10:18

She's first or second out the

10:20

door every morning. And it's either the cockerel

10:23

ahead of her or behind her.

10:25

You guys were. Just lead

10:27

me into my next thing that I want to talk about

10:30

and you're doing it naturally and you may be

10:33

doing it with intent or it may just be

10:35

what you learned to do. But when you're

10:37

evaluating birds, to

10:39

me, one of the easiest things to do

10:42

is to compare one bird

10:44

to another bird. Bird A

10:46

and bird B. Is bird B

10:48

better overall? Then

10:51

the other one set him aside

10:53

till you find one better than him. And

10:56

you can sort through a lot of birds in a hurry like

10:58

that.

10:59

Sometimes it's real helpful to have somebody who

11:01

doesn't even know anything about chickens come

11:03

by because they're like, Ooh,

11:06

what, that, that bird right there what's going on with that

11:08

bird? Or if the, or

11:10

if, visitors compliment you on your turkeys.

11:13

A question that I get from a lot of people

11:15

is if they've never really thought

11:17

about doing breeding selection, they'll ask, how do you

11:19

even start? Let's say I have

11:22

20 birds in front of me. How do I even begin?

11:24

And I'm like, we'll start by catching one. Don't

11:27

think about who it is. Just the first

11:29

one you can put your hands on, bring that

11:31

bird out, evaluate it, and every

11:33

single bird after that is going to be better

11:36

or worse in different things, different

11:38

qualities. And that's where you develop

11:40

your goals from is what

11:42

you're finding, what you have, and what you

11:44

want them to do what the standard wants

11:46

them to do and going

11:49

through them systematically. But you begin

11:52

just by picking one. It doesn't even matter which

11:54

one.

11:54

You have your notebook and you score them.

11:57

If you try to sort through

11:59

a whole flock of birds as

12:01

a group, you're going to wind up

12:03

making mistakes. You got to take

12:05

them one at a time. And just like Mandy

12:07

says, compare the next bird

12:09

to the one you just looked at. Is he better

12:12

or worse? And go through them that

12:14

way, much faster process.

12:15

Cause then you

12:18

end up with a much smaller group of who was better

12:20

and you can ignore everybody else and

12:22

do it again with what was better.

12:24

Thanks for watching!

12:26

Hi there, poultry keepers. This is Mandelyn

12:28

Royal, one of the voices behind the Poultry

12:31

Keepers podcast. We're on a mission

12:33

to create a larger, more vibrant

12:35

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Let's grow a larger community together.

13:05

Thanks for being a part of the Poultry Keeper's

13:07

family. Now, back to our show.

13:10

Thanks for watching!

13:12

Yeah. I know you and Karen Johnston,

13:14

especially put a ton of work in on

13:16

the poultry keepers 360 selection

13:18

tool, where you can have

13:20

all the different categories that you're looking for

13:22

and weigh them. Against each other

13:25

and have a, change your scale on the fly.

13:27

You know what this year breast width is

13:29

more important to me. And you change that

13:31

and it changes your selection criteria

13:33

for your birds. So it takes,

13:36

it puts a lot of objectivity

13:38

into the selection process. It takes a lot of subjectivity

13:41

out of it. Once, once you come

13:43

up with in your mind, what a 10

13:45

out of 10 is for fleshing, then you can input

13:47

that score for each bird. And

13:49

add them up and your natural winners

13:52

are going to be the ones with the highest scores, so

13:54

to speak.

13:55

And if somebody wants to get a copy of that spreadsheet,

13:58

if they're members of Poultry Keepers 360

14:00

on Facebook, it's in the file section.

14:02

If you're not a member, join and

14:04

go to the file section and you will find the

14:07

selection tool in there. And it's simply a spreadsheet.

14:10

And it's just scoring for different kind of qualities,

14:13

is what it amounts to. High score

14:15

wins.

14:16

Yeah, but you can change the weight of each individual

14:18

score overall, which is really

14:20

helpful for when, if

14:22

you want to focus on two or three traits this

14:24

year and not, maintain the other

14:27

traits you can do that, or not. You

14:29

can do whatever you want, but I find I get overwhelmed

14:31

easily if I don't have a very good inventory

14:35

and tracking system. So all my birds

14:37

get wing banded no later than day

14:39

three. And their permanent

14:41

record starts actually well before hatch.

14:43

Their permanent record starts with the date, time,

14:45

and temperature that I collected their egg.

14:48

That's a lot.

14:50

I just write right on the shell when I take it out of the box.

14:52

At times I've got infrared

14:55

thermometer. It's cold. records

14:57

temperature. If it's 72 out

14:59

and the egg is, still above 70, it's

15:01

irrelevant. But if it's negative

15:03

30 out, if that egg is

15:05

under really 40

15:07

degrees for a shell temperature by the

15:10

time I collect it, I'm not gonna

15:12

consider setting it.

15:14

Yeah, that reduces the chances pretty

15:16

far underneath those refrigerator

15:18

temperatures, I guess you could call it.

15:21

Guys, we've talked a lot about body

15:24

shape, body form, which

15:26

we should because type is far more

15:29

important than color.

15:31

Type is everything. Build the barn, then paint

15:33

it, you say all the time, right?

15:34

We do need to address color, and It's

15:37

hard to do on a podcast because

15:39

each parti colored breed or variety,

15:42

and parti colors means more than one

15:45

color

15:45

P A R T I.

15:47

Yeah, P A R T I. But

15:49

the standard will tell you what

15:53

that color should be, where it should

15:55

be on the individual feathers. Some

15:58

standards will even tell you Laced

16:00

breeds. It's a let's

16:02

take a silver laced bird, which is,

16:05

it's a white feather with a black edging

16:07

around it. It'll tell you whether it's

16:09

supposed to be oval shaped or

16:12

is it supposed to be almond shaped. They

16:14

can get that specific.

16:16

Patterns are tricky. I dabbled in

16:19

patterns and realized, you know what, I

16:21

think I want my birds to be white.

16:23

My old English pheasant fowl had a silver

16:25

spangled pattern, which

16:27

was just So intricate and delicate

16:30

and gorgeous, I thought. And I'm really glad

16:32

that somebody who had better resources

16:34

than I took over that project, because they

16:36

are very special and rare here in the States.

16:39

I did try some double silver lace

16:41

barn welders, and those were fun. And

16:43

that pattern, it was so pretty,

16:46

but so tricky too.

16:49

Yes. I only kept them for about

16:51

two years and then I moved on to

16:54

birchen, black silvers, and some other

16:56

simpler patterns that still carried their

16:58

own complexities.

17:00

That's where attention to detail and

17:02

having an eye is really going to pay

17:04

off. And why I

17:06

ended up with whitebirds.

17:09

Y'all, Mandy was talking about

17:11

she wanted all her birds to be white. But

17:14

there's even problems in

17:16

white color varieties, am I not right?

17:18

Yeah, but it's a little easier to worry about

17:20

removing like yellowing

17:22

and finding all the different contributors to that

17:24

and that can go all the way back

17:27

to the base color that's underneath the white

17:29

because the white is always covering

17:31

something. And what it's covering

17:34

is what you might be up against,

17:37

especially if there's anything red in there that's

17:39

going to come out as yellow.

17:41

I'm always selecting silver downed

17:43

chicks. My chicks come out gold, but

17:46

they'll have a silver down, and those are

17:48

the ones I

17:49

want. Oh yeah, you bet.

17:52

The standard doesn't refer to it as

17:54

yellowing. If you're looking it up in the standard,

17:56

it's going to refer to it as brassiness.

17:59

That makes sense. The light color of

18:01

brass. Other solid

18:04

colors. Buff, for example.

18:07

You would think, pretty straightforward,

18:09

right? No. Because

18:11

it should be the same shade

18:13

of buff in each section

18:16

of the bird. Hackles should match

18:18

the tail should match the breast should match the wings should

18:20

match the back. That's not

18:22

easy to do. And then you

18:24

throw into the fact that they are sensitive

18:27

to sunlight. I'll just put it that way because

18:29

it can bleach them out and turn them patchy looking.

18:32

Yeah, that's true. And you can start seeing the

18:34

visual difference between an old feather and a new

18:37

feather.

18:38

Same thing with blues. You can get patchiness

18:41

and a not a good even surface

18:43

color.

18:44

The solid colors. Do you want to have an ever

18:46

so slight lacing especially in some of the

18:48

blue varieties? The blues yes. You want

18:50

to see the lacing in

18:51

there. Should be slight blue laced

18:54

in a fine edging of black.

18:56

Can you touch on briefly what you mean by blue?

18:59

Blue is a gene that dilutes

19:01

black to a slaty

19:04

blue color. And if

19:06

you get two copies of the blue gene,

19:09

you get a splash bird. Now,

19:13

even though it splashed, it's gonna have blue

19:15

splashes. It's not gonna have black. If it's got

19:17

black, you got something else going on

19:19

there. It's not blue. Because

19:22

a splash bred to a

19:24

black gives you all blues.

19:27

Yeah, I've played around with blue black splash

19:29

and a couple different varieties and they are fun

19:32

to play around with. It'll start teaching you a

19:34

lot about color expression and

19:36

how those genes can affect each other

19:39

and for example, if you take a splash

19:41

and you breed it to a splash and you do that repeatedly,

19:43

you start losing that good depth

19:46

of blue What do you call those

19:48

little blotches?

19:49

Splotches.

19:51

I feel like there should be another term for the blue

19:53

bits because they're random. They're not in a set

19:55

pattern, but then subsequently

19:58

through the generations you start

20:00

losing that depth of the color

20:02

there unless you put them back

20:04

to a black or a blue. It's

20:07

just neat watching it go from one generation

20:09

to another and who you choose. If you notice

20:11

your blues are getting Washed out and

20:13

pale and the lacing is

20:15

not that great, breed them to a black. In that

20:17

next generation, you'll see a whole new color of blue

20:19

come through.

20:21

Okay, now you've opened up another can of worms

20:23

for me to talk about.

20:25

Great. We're getting off topic now. We're straying off the topic. No,

20:27

we're

20:27

not. No, we're not. No, we're still in. We're still

20:29

in. We're still talking about color. Okay.

20:31

If you breed a blue to a black, do

20:34

you breed it to just any black,

20:37

or do you breed it? From a black

20:39

that came from a blue and blue mating.

20:42

I've always done it from blacks that came

20:44

from the blue

20:47

being in there. Like I never went to a black

20:49

bird that was from. Straight

20:52

black for multiple generations.

20:54

And that's the way you should do it. It's the way you

20:56

were doing it. Always use a

20:58

black that came from a blue and blue mating.

21:01

What happens if you don't? You can

21:03

lose the lacing on the on the bluebirds.

21:06

Really? Yeah, because

21:08

those blacks are carrying that lacing gene.

21:11

You may not see it because of the black feather background.

21:14

Yeah.

21:14

But that's, it's underlying and that's,

21:16

it's these other genes on top of it that's

21:18

allowing it to come through.

21:20

Exactly.

21:21

Oh. So it's

21:23

like a diluter gene? Yes. Okay.

21:27

Gotcha. Gotcha. I've been playing with quail, and

21:29

we bandy these terms around a lot, and

21:31

they go really fast, which is really

21:33

nice. I've been playing with polygenetic inheritance

21:37

requiring something on, from all

21:39

four grandparents before it's going to express,

21:42

fun stuff. Goes fast, and quail

21:44

are delicious yeah.

21:46

I've got a few points I want to hit because

21:48

we're getting here towards the tail end of our

21:50

show, it's going to take you some time to build

21:52

your confidence in evaluating birds,

21:55

and it's nothing wrong whatsoever

21:58

about getting a friend of yours that raises

22:00

birds who may be more experienced

22:02

than you to help you do that, because

22:04

that's how you're really going to learn. So

22:07

just remember, it's going to take you some

22:09

time, and it's going to take a lot of

22:11

practice to get it down

22:13

right, but you

22:15

will get there. For Trust me, you will

22:18

get there. And, another

22:20

thing I want to remind folks, and we talked about this

22:22

early on, if you will go back

22:24

and read that first 39,

22:27

40 pages in the Standard of Perfection, it

22:29

has all the definitions. It

22:31

has, they talk about defects,

22:34

disqualifications, a scale

22:36

of points. They divide a bird

22:38

into different sections, and you get so many points

22:41

for the head, so many points for the back, and

22:43

right on down. So all the things we've already been

22:45

talking about, it will give

22:47

you a very systematic way to evaluate

22:49

your birds if you follow that.

22:52

And the amount of points that they deduct for a comb

22:54

is a lot different than what a breeder may,

22:58

the importance of a comb. Whether it has five

23:00

or six or seven points.

23:02

I was just going to say that the point system really

23:04

shows you which trades are more important than others.

23:07

The comb is, what, a max of 5

23:09

points, but the back is 10?

23:12

The combs are very

23:14

insignificant in the overall scheme

23:16

of the bird. But most people,

23:19

and Mandy, I know you've seen it working

23:21

with folks with Bresse, get so

23:23

stressed out if they have 6 or 7 points

23:25

on the bird. When I'm judging,

23:28

I'm only supposed to deduct one

23:30

half point for

23:33

every point of the comb over or under

23:35

the required number. If

23:37

they have a seven point comb, that's

23:40

only one point off the whole bird's overall score.

23:43

If the rest of the bird is there, your carriage is

23:45

right, your heart, girth, and depth,

23:47

and everything. And

23:49

you're disqualifying a bird because it has, seven

23:52

points. Maybe

23:54

you need to reevaluate.

23:56

Another thing that's in those

23:58

first few pages of the standards, there's illustrations

24:02

that can be so helpful answer a

24:04

lot of your questions. And

24:06

the last thing I've got, and then I'm

24:08

going to be quiet because this is something

24:11

that really. Lights my fire here.

24:13

If you have questions about your bird, go

24:16

by the written standard. Don't

24:19

go by what somebody tells you, because

24:22

so many information gets passed on from

24:24

person to person, and it's just like telling

24:26

jokes. One person can tell me a joke,

24:28

and by the time I tell it to somebody else, and

24:31

they tell it to somebody else, and they tell it to somebody

24:33

else, not even the same joke

24:35

anymore.

24:36

It's a game of telephone. So just

24:38

start with the book. You can ask your

24:40

questions. And get

24:43

a response. And you can

24:45

ask five different people, hopefully

24:47

at least three of them give you the same answer. But

24:50

you might get five completely different answers

24:53

that are subjective based instead of

24:55

factual from the book based. Based

24:57

on something that they heard, and on down the chain. And

25:00

there's a lot of knowledge out there that is

25:02

going to be almost bloodline specific, especially

25:04

with how certain traits or even

25:06

how colors play together when you're

25:09

doing the breeding for a pattern. That

25:11

kind of stuff isn't going to be in the book and you do

25:13

absolutely want to mentor for that.

25:16

But for the technical data, keep

25:18

it by the book.

25:20

And that's where some of these really

25:22

good resources online, if

25:25

you find them, like the Chanticleer

25:28

Fanciers International has a Facebook page. It's

25:30

a private page and there's only 52

25:32

members. But they're all the people

25:35

who are basically lifetime members

25:37

of that organization. And

25:39

if I have a question about my Chanticleers,

25:42

I will post videos and pictures

25:44

up there and let the members

25:47

help me sort it out.

25:49

Yeah, having a small group

25:51

like that is helpful because then it reduces

25:53

some of the noise.

25:54

We'll get into some pretty heated discussions

25:57

over esoteric points in

25:59

the standard. You have 52

26:01

people read the same paragraph or even

26:03

the same sentence, and you're like

26:05

to me this means this, and here's a picture,

26:07

and this is why I think so, and somebody else says,

26:10

to me this means this, and it,

26:13

It can get good, but it eventually gets sorted out

26:15

in a good club. That's

26:17

how they should run. And the president.

26:20

Of our organization as an active

26:22

member. We get good steering and

26:25

that's the important thing is qualifying where

26:27

your advice comes from. And

26:30

you touched on that. There's some great breeders

26:32

who don't even know what a standard

26:34

is. And I don't know how they do that, but

26:36

they have their

26:37

hands.

26:38

I hope everyone's enjoyed the show. We've covered

26:40

a lot of territory. Just

26:42

talking about, I think we spent more time talking

26:45

about. Understanding and applying

26:47

the standard than we have any other topic we've

26:49

covered so far.

26:50

We only touched on the surface of it. And

26:52

I think we could dive into it even deeper

26:54

and get even more particular if we wanted to.

26:56

We could do a whole year on just the

26:58

standard of perfection, just the first. 38,

27:02

39 pages do people even,

27:05

are they going to stop by and listen to that?

27:07

You guys can email us and tell us what you want

27:09

too. Yeah, please do. Please let

27:11

us know what you want us to talk about. All

27:14

right, folks, thanks for listening. We've

27:17

had a great time as always

27:19

and we hope that we have been able to add a

27:21

little value to your poultry

27:23

keeping experience and help you improve your

27:25

birds in the long run. So until

27:27

next time, we will see you

27:30

later. Bye bye.

27:31

This brings us to the close of another Poultry

27:33

Keepers podcast. Until next time,

27:35

we'd appreciate it if you would drop us a note,

27:37

letting us know your thoughts about our podcast.

27:40

Please share our podcast with all of your friends

27:42

that keep poultry, and we hope you'll join

27:45

us again when we'll be talking poultry

27:47

from feathers to function.