0:00

Hi , welcome to the poultry keepers podcast . I'm

0:02

john gunterman and , together with mandolin

0:04

royal and rips talvi , where your

0:06

co-hosts for the show , and is our mission to

0:08

help you have a happy , healthy

0:10

and productive flock . Developing

0:22

a stronger flock takes time and effort . It

0:24

requires us to improve our flock management

0:27

skills and practices . Coming

0:29

up will share how to do that successfully . Growing

0:32

out more birds can improve your selection

0:35

options and , mandolin , you've done

0:37

this with your flock and you've grown out a

0:39

lot of birds and a lot of selection to get

0:41

to where you're at .

0:43

Yeah , that was a long time coming to . I

0:45

hadn't originally given that any thought

0:47

, but as I started working

0:49

the flock on more of a mission and coming up with

0:52

our flock goals and really

0:54

dive into what it meant to do the

0:56

breeding , it quickly

0:58

became apparent that I was

1:00

going to need some more selection options

1:02

to really find the desired traits

1:04

that I was looking for . And

1:06

the last couple years now I

1:08

feel pretty comfortable at about four hundred

1:10

a year and I'm not growing

1:12

all four hundred of them all the way to

1:15

a year old , but I'm treating it

1:17

kind of like a filter and I can start making

1:19

decisions as early as eight

1:21

weeks . If they were a slow

1:23

grower compared to some of their peers or

1:26

maybe they were a little too fast and

1:28

they got a little clunky , looking for what

1:30

I'm looking for and

1:32

one of the late developing males in the

1:34

hand those are the worst , those slow

1:37

developing boys that want to trick you for

1:39

over twelve , fourteen weeks and

1:42

they'll look every bit like a female that

1:44

all of a sudden they're walking around with some saddle

1:46

feathers and sickle feathers

1:48

in their tail and comb starts jumping

1:50

up , and then they learn to grow . My god , you're a

1:53

stew pot candidate .

1:55

Where'd you come from . You're going away .

1:58

Thankfully it doesn't happen that often , maybe like one or two

2:00

out of a hundred . But

2:03

when you get numbers like that , when you're talking

2:05

a couple hundred , it really

2:07

does a better job of showing your percentages

2:09

of your hatch results to see you can kind of Get

2:12

a more accurate idea of what they're actually

2:14

throwing forward . The smaller the batch

2:16

, the more unreliable

2:19

the data is . Like if you only hatch off 10 . You're

2:22

not going to get that good of a window

2:24

of what's actually going on in your percentages of what's possible .

2:29

I mean I'd really only be looking for one

2:31

bird out of 10 . I just know that the

2:33

rule of 10 here applies

2:35

, so much or less . If you're starting with , you know Rod

2:40

genetics that have not been worked by somebody

2:42

that has similar plans and skills .

2:44

I forget the name of the breeder

2:46

, but he was saying that he

2:48

was trying to chase blue ribbons at

2:50

the show and be really competitive and he got himself to where he was growing 5000

2:52

a year , looking

2:56

for five birds . So

2:59

he went from hundreds into thousands and I

3:01

don't have the scale for that and I kind of don't want to

3:03

put that much time into it either , because with

3:06

every additional amount you

3:08

add you're adding space , fee

3:10

, time , resources , all of that . So

3:12

you want to find what's comfortable

3:14

for you .

3:15

And numbers like that can scare a lot of people off

3:17

, but you could easily

3:20

have a sustainable home flock

3:22

as long as you focus on a

3:24

breed and don't get squirreled into

3:26

. This is pretty and that's pretty .

3:28

You got to do that initially to find what you like

3:30

though .

3:31

Made that mistake . I ordered three

3:33

of this and two of that and four of these , all from

3:35

a hatchery , and had a man , and they

3:38

all did about the same , Fairly

3:40

mediocre . It wasn't until

3:43

I started getting into you know some really

3:45

decent line bread heritage

3:47

breeds that I went oh OK , there's

3:49

an actual difference here .

3:51

It's neat when you start noticing what's different

3:54

though , like oh wow , same breed

3:56

, night and day differences

3:58

, and how they grow , how they look , how they

4:00

behave , sometimes even I

4:02

mean having birds that never ate snow .

4:04

They never saw another bird eat snow , but

4:07

they figured it out on their own . And in the winter

4:09

I go out and check their water every day

4:11

and it's full of really nice water and

4:14

they just don't drink . They

4:16

somehow learn to and prefer to eat

4:18

snow than drink water .

4:19

It's easy to get on the go .

4:22

It's always there .

4:23

It's always underfoot , that's right .

4:25

Pretty much , but I don't want them to do

4:27

that , because it's always underfoot . We don't want to

4:29

feed our birds on the ground . I don't

4:31

want them picking up snow that they may have defecated

4:34

in .

4:35

I agree with what we're talking about . I

4:37

guess to a certain extent , the more you have

4:40

, the more you can choose from . But

4:42

for me , I think my

4:44

breeding goals have been for a

4:47

good while . Now that I want to

4:49

refine my flock , I want to concentrate

4:51

the good qualities , I want to eliminate

4:53

those bad qualities , and

4:56

the more I can refine the flock , I

4:58

found that the fewer birds I

5:01

had to raise to get the good ones .

5:03

You know you're on to something when you only

5:05

have to hatch off 25 or 50

5:07

and that gives you everything you need the next season .

5:10

Yeah , there was an old red breeder in Kentucky

5:12

, leroy Jones Leroy

5:15

. He was hard

5:18

to impossible to beat at

5:20

a show and I asked

5:22

him one time . I said , mr Jones , how many red

5:24

bannums do you raise ? He

5:27

said I'll let two hens set a year . That's

5:30

all he raised . It's all he needs . Well , if you've heard

5:32

it , all that good .

5:33

it's all you need , that's right .

5:34

But you know , mandy , you were also talking

5:36

about scale . It's easy

5:39

to think , oh , there's an egg , I

5:41

need to hatch it . You

5:43

can get carried away big time and you're wind up against

5:46

the wall of limiting factors . Infrastructure

5:48

is one , but

5:51

probably the biggest one is financial

5:53

resources . The feed's not cheap

5:55

, not the good feed .

5:57

And good feed isn't cheap and cheap feed isn't good

5:59

, very true . So

6:01

getting some really good

6:03

genetic stock to start with and then make your selection

6:05

from there . One

6:08

of my goals is to have what

6:11

I consider a homestead size , self-sustaining

6:13

flock , and

6:15

I think you should be able to do that with three

6:17

roots , three roosters , nine

6:20

hens and hatching , you know

6:22

, setting 100 eggs a year , you

6:24

should be able to hatch out replacements for that core

6:27

group and have enough

6:29

to sell off , have enough to fill the freezer . To

6:31

me that's about a minimum , sustainable flock

6:34

size .

6:35

That's about 50 birds into the freezer .

6:37

Yeah , I think the first

6:39

year we're starting out with a breeding program . There

6:41

are some definite advantages to

6:43

hatch and raise as many as

6:45

you can efficiently , effectively

6:48

and financially .

6:50

Yes , and keep only your very , very

6:52

best . And that way you're not forced

6:54

into keeping less than the absolute

6:56

best , if you go into it with the mindset

6:58

of you know 50 of these

7:01

hundred eggs that I'm setting are

7:03

going to be meat in the freezer or sold

7:05

to layers to my neighbors . It's a good mindset

7:08

.

7:09

And I try to have my space figured out to

7:11

where 30% of the space is

7:13

for maintaining the adults and 70%

7:16

of the space is for growouts , and

7:18

I look forward to that time of year coming into

7:20

winter when 70% of the

7:22

space is empty .

7:24

I think that's a good policy .

7:27

It reduces the winter chore load too , because

7:29

if you try to do it from a profitability

7:33

angle and all of your space is dedicated

7:35

to birds in production , where

7:38

are you going to grow your other ones out

7:40

to ? replace those birds , how are you going

7:42

to get your flock progress and your improvements

7:44

? And then how are you going to learn the genetics

7:47

you have through

7:49

seeing the range of what they are

7:51

breeding forward ? So if you tilt

7:53

it to have way more grow out space than

7:56

keep your adult breeder space

7:58

, you'll you'll learn a lot more about

8:01

your genetics and what you have by

8:03

doing it that way .

8:04

I think , when we fool ourselves into

8:06

believing we've got to have a lot

8:09

of breeders , we

8:11

need to sit down and truly evaluate

8:13

the quality of the birds that we have . It

8:16

shouldn't take a lot of breeders to

8:18

move your breed and your goals forward .

8:21

Yeah , I'm coming to terms with that

8:23

.

8:23

But that also requires controlled

8:25

breeding methods , which we're going to get

8:27

to in just a little bit .

8:29

Oh sure it does , folks

8:32

. Mediocre birds are a dime a dozen . You

8:34

can find those anywhere , but quality

8:36

is harder to find and

8:38

it costs you more . But it pays

8:40

real major dividends in

8:42

the long run .

8:44

Shaves years off your hunt to

8:46

get established , then going in blind

8:48

.

8:50

Yeah , you won't have to worry about having to grow

8:52

out 5,000 of them looking for a showbird

8:54

If you just start with something

8:56

decent .

8:58

That involves doing your research on

9:00

a breed that's appropriate

9:03

for your area . Let's start with there first . I

9:05

had to go with shanticleers , no combs and wattles

9:08

. We're on the second highest peak

9:10

in Vermont . It gets cold , windy

9:12

here . My birds get wind

9:15

frostbite badly

9:17

. They wouldn't do so well in Arizona

9:20

or Texas or high

9:22

desert .

9:23

It does .

9:24

Yeah , the only other way they have to

9:27

shed excess heat is through respiration

9:29

, so it's not good for

9:31

them , whereas a bird with really

9:33

big combs and wattles would probably be

9:35

more appropriate for that area . So

9:38

I often see people fall in love

9:40

with a breed that's not appropriate for where they live

9:42

.

9:43

Well , there's some breeding work you can do

9:45

for adaptability , but it's not going

9:47

to be in that first generation

9:49

. They'll have to get through a couple of winners to

9:52

see the environmental changes that can also

9:54

come into play .

9:55

But RIP turned me on to a fun

9:58

little thing where we can shrink , combsize

10:00

by dropping brooder temperature

10:02

after the first week A few degrees

10:04

more than we normally would , and

10:06

I'm fine with that because it shaves a few degrees

10:09

or a few pennies off my electric bill

10:11

.

10:12

And I found that to be very true as well . You

10:14

can see it in natural environment too , with

10:16

your summer grown chicks versus

10:18

winter grown chicks . It'll show then

10:21

too . But you can definitely do that

10:23

artificially by playing around with your settings

10:25

and just watch their language and

10:27

how they're behaving in the brooder to know

10:29

if they're at a comfortable temperature

10:32

or not . If you hear that distress call and they're

10:34

all huddled up , then it's

10:36

probably too cool for them . But if they're

10:38

well spaced out and they're not complaining about

10:40

it , don't give them any more heat

10:42

than what they're getting .

10:45

I start out my day old chicks

10:47

. Most of the brooder

10:49

manufacturers recommend 95

10:51

degrees . I start mine at 90

10:53

and then drop it five

10:55

degrees every week . But

10:58

, like like Manny said , I do

11:00

pay attention to what the chicks are telling me

11:02

. You know , are they all huddled up like

11:05

they're cold ? Well , raise the temperature a little bit .

11:07

Nine times three , ten , the birds will tell you what they

11:10

need .

11:10

Yes , they will .

11:12

I started at 95 and I can drop

11:14

a degree a day over three weeks and

11:16

it gets me right where , at

11:18

three weeks , they're out into

11:20

the real world regardless of temperature

11:22

.

11:23

In the spring and summer , when we start getting

11:25

to where the overnight lows aren't too terrible

11:28

, like in the 50s , 60s

11:30

or so , I have a bad habit of pulling

11:32

their heat totally as soon as they have

11:34

just enough feathers to cover themselves

11:36

, at about like five weeks old or so .

11:39

They can self-regulate at three weeks . It

11:41

costs you a little bit more in feed , but I believe you're

11:43

going to have a healthier bird .

11:45

Well , when they start gathering their own heat at

11:47

two weeks , they just don't have the feathers to

11:49

hold that heat in .

11:51

You tease me about the fluff on my shanticleers

11:53

, but that's something

11:56

that I actually select for

11:58

and bred for , because

12:00

it's six

12:03

degrees outside right now here .

12:04

Yeah , it just makes them snuggly .

12:07

Yeah , fluffy , I'm not fat

12:09

, I'm fluffy so

12:12

. But how do you get there ? That's always the thing

12:14

. People , you know where do you start and how do you get

12:16

there . We already could cover

12:18

, you know , find the best stock you can . You

12:21

know , looking trade publications , apa

12:23

journals , ask

12:25

Around Online and some of the more advanced

12:27

groups .

12:29

John , one of the biggest mistakes I see

12:31

folks make is they try

12:33

to grow their flock too fast

12:36

. It's going to take you time

12:38

to learn specifics about your breed

12:40

or your variety . To

12:42

sort through all those birds that

12:44

are Genuinely worth keeping

12:47

are those birds that would be best

12:49

not used in the breeding program , and

12:51

for me , a Slow , steady

12:53

growth will get you where you want to go , faster

12:56

than a fast growth

12:58

. Mandy's making faces

13:00

.

13:00

I don't know whether she's Well

13:04

, I like to accelerate it just a smidge

13:06

. Get my free bird birds at 14 , 15

13:08

, 16 , 18 weeks old , some

13:11

she's been heard away , oh

13:14

. Yeah , I love playing

13:16

the genetic lottery that is so

13:18

intriguing to me .

13:20

But your situation is , you had to pretty

13:22

much because you had such a very Shallow

13:25

gene pool to start with and select

13:27

from . So you had to open up the

13:29

doors box to find out what was hiding in

13:31

there , then filter down

13:33

.

13:34

Point where it was too much , too fast and I had

13:36

to step it back . And that took Four

13:39

generations to hit a wall

13:41

of it just being too

13:44

much . And it changed the birds to when

13:46

they were getting clonkier and the bones were thickening

13:49

up , and for their breed it's not

13:51

desirable to have big , thick bones , and

13:53

that was changing the growth rate too and

13:56

I didn't want to go in a different direction . So

13:59

I scaled it back and found the comfortable

14:01

size that worked with the genetics , without

14:04

getting into funky territory

14:07

.

14:07

Yeah , well , you touched on one of our points

14:10

that was coming up is Ultimately , your

14:12

goal is to remove the undesirable characteristics

14:15

from your flock . Yeah , overall

14:17

, you strengthen the good qualities by doing that

14:19

.

14:20

Correct and I had a lot of stuff

14:22

to Sort out , everything

14:24

from slip wing and knock knees

14:27

and keels that weren't shaped quite right

14:29

before I even got into Body structure

14:31

. First I had to go through Looking

14:33

for defects and clean that up

14:35

before I could get serious about anything else , so

14:39

I was a okay with fast growth to get them in the

14:41

freezer sooner you know , john , you talked about

14:43

strengthening the good qualities and

14:45

Working to eliminate the bad qualities

14:48

, and there's some breeding procedures

14:50

, breeding practices that work

14:52

real good for that .

14:53

There's some that don't work , so good for that

14:55

right .

14:57

And unfortunately , the ones that work best

14:59

have picked up a somewhat bad

15:01

reputation . Just oh , they have and that

15:03

, unfortunately , it's quite the opposite

15:05

it is the most powerful tool a breeder

15:07

can use .

15:09

Absolutely . You can say line

15:11

breeding to people or in breeding

15:13

to people and they just Come

15:16

back at you with this shock , dumbfounded look

15:18

on your face that you would even suggest such a thing

15:20

. But Breeding

15:22

mammals is a lot different than breeding chickens

15:24

. It's just totally

15:27

flip-flopped around . You can do things

15:29

with chickens that you can't

15:31

do with hogs or cattle

15:33

, but line breeding

15:36

has really been

15:38

the tool that most successful breeders

15:40

have used to build a very strong

15:43

flock , and line breeding is nothing

15:45

more than breeding together

15:47

loosely related

15:49

individuals , where

15:51

in breeding is breeding together

15:53

Very closely related

15:56

individuals like father

15:58

to daughter or mother to son or brothers

16:01

to sister . Even I've done that before .

16:03

Yeah , that's a powerful tool to figure out

16:05

what's hiding in the genetics that you want to see

16:08

and remove it's

16:11

. Who said that ? Kirby

16:13

Jackson . He's been one

16:15

of my mentors for a while and he really knows

16:17

his genetic ABC's

16:20

and all those little details . And

16:22

he said if you really want to know what recessive

16:25

Defects are hiding within a bloodline

16:27

, go ahead and breed full siblings together and

16:29

that'll tell you more than you ever wanted to know

16:31

about the work you need to do with them .

16:34

It's a magnifier for good

16:36

and bad .

16:38

Well , it's a choice you have to make . So if you

16:40

rely on Bloodline crosses

16:42

to keep vigor and stuff up high

16:44

, you're also creating a Higher

16:47

rate of variables in a bigger range

16:49

of genetic expression and you're not

16:51

going to get consistency . But

16:53

on the flip side , if you really want to get in there

16:55

and dig deep and scrub the

16:58

genetics and get consistent and

17:00

get those cookie cutter results and

17:02

you're gonna have to breed with a tight

17:04

method . But the caveat to

17:06

that is you can't use inferior

17:09

birds to do it .

17:10

I Think a dozen Birds

17:13

can do that for a

17:15

home flock because you have the ability

17:17

to line breed or in breed

17:19

. You can go either

17:22

direction with what you have . I think

17:24

it's a . It's a good base number and you can

17:26

easily grow from there . You

17:28

know I surge up . You know I try to

17:30

hatch out Well , last year was a

17:32

light year , it was 200 and

17:34

Sell them off . That was just a

17:36

fulfill orders . I'm not doing that again .

17:39

You know , we talked about the good aspects

17:42

of line breeding and

17:44

inbreeding and what it can do for you . There

17:46

is a method that doesn't really work all

17:49

that well to help you improve your flock

17:51

and that's what most folks

17:53

do and what's been done forever , it seems

17:55

like , and that's flock mating , where

17:58

you use multiple females and

18:01

multiple males all in the same

18:03

pen , and the

18:05

problem with that is you

18:08

don't really know which male

18:10

and female produced which chick .

18:13

And even if you saw a

18:15

particular rooster with a particular hand

18:17

and you collected her egg the next day , you

18:19

can't be sure that that rooster sired

18:22

an egg , because it could

18:24

come from multiple donors in the same

18:26

hand .

18:27

You know I'm sitting here thinking as we're talking and

18:29

for me and you're

18:32

not going to know this right away it's going to take some

18:34

time to develop this knack

18:36

, but if you're looking

18:38

at your birds and you're studying your flock , they're

18:41

going to tell you whether the flock is ready for

18:43

line breeding or end breeding , or

18:46

whether maybe just back up a little bit and go

18:49

back to flock mating for a season or

18:51

two . To me that's the mark

18:53

of a good breeder is knowing when to use what

18:55

techniques in the breeding pen .

18:57

Right , because the birds will tell you and

19:00

I like to think of flock mating as

19:02

almost maintenance

19:05

and you can use those

19:07

offspring to let you know if they're actually

19:09

expressing with a general

19:11

decent result

19:14

or if you're seeing stuff you still need to work

19:16

on . So , depending on what you're

19:18

seeing that you need to call for , if

19:21

you're having to call too many for the same

19:23

thing , it's absolutely worth figuring out

19:25

who's throwing that so you can pull

19:27

them out and replace them with

19:29

better offspring . But it's

19:31

going to be pair mating that

19:33

really tells you what each individual

19:36

bird brings to the table .

19:39

I think Mandy , one of the Chanticleer

19:41

rooster that I brought to you , he's

19:43

got a crooked second left toe .

19:45

Both of his front toes are bent . Okay

19:48

yeah , that was a . Thing .

19:50

That was a thing , though , and I know which

19:53

rooster he came from

19:55

, and he's not in the line

19:57

anymore .

19:59

Well , and I didn't put him with my best girls , but

20:01

I put him with five perfectly serviceable

20:03

females . And rather

20:06

than pair mate , I want to see the initial

20:08

range of what that hybrid is going

20:10

to do . So I am going to

20:13

flock , breed those just to see

20:15

. I want to see the range . I want to see

20:17

the variables and options and what percentages

20:20

I get for which traits , how

20:22

many of them are meaty , and then from there figure

20:25

out if it's worth pair mating based on those

20:27

initial results .

20:28

But for now . I just want to see I'll get

20:30

you better . He's a call . Keep an eye out for that

20:33

crooked toe though .

20:35

Oh , for sure , because all the girls have great feet .

20:37

You know it's a common flaw , I think whether I got

20:39

rid of now .

20:41

And I'll see the prevalence of how

20:43

he throws that forward . I got a question for

20:45

Mandy .

20:46

Let's play Punnett .

20:46

Square Bingo .

20:48

And I know you're experiencing this in breasts

20:50

right now . It's

20:52

just not limited to breast , Either folks . I've

20:54

seen it in a lot of breeds where

20:58

people want to change a breed

21:00

to suit what

21:03

they wanted a bird . You

21:05

see any dangers in doing that , Mandy .

21:07

Yeah , because if you get too tunneled

21:10

into that mindset , you might

21:13

find yourself with birds that are so far

21:15

outside of their breed standard

21:17

that they don't look the part , they don't

21:19

act the way they should . What

21:21

you want to do when you're working

21:23

with a particular variety hopefully

21:26

you pick that variety because you like a

21:29

description of what they should be and

21:31

that's what you breed towards . To

21:33

pick up some birds and start making

21:36

them what they're not supposed to be , that

21:39

can be problematic and it's going to

21:41

absolutely affect your future

21:43

potential . If you're trying to market those

21:45

birds , do they reflect what

21:47

they're supposed to be ? Once

21:50

you start changing them , you kind of got to start

21:52

thinking about well , what am I going to call them now ? Because

21:55

they're not what they were .

21:57

They're not what they were . They're

21:59

not what they were . And that's

22:01

what I have seen , where people get

22:04

so focused on one particular aspect

22:06

of the breed they're working with Maybe

22:10

it's size , maybe it's growth rate . Maybe

22:12

, it's eggshell color . Pick

22:14

whatever reason you want .

22:17

Yeah , and the birds change

22:19

dramatically If we lose the ability

22:21

to focus on the overall bird we're

22:23

not doing that breed any favors better

22:26

than how you found them Without

22:28

changing them away from what they were supposed

22:30

to be . When you get on the

22:33

internet and you read about a variety

22:35

, they're supposed to get to this size , like

22:37

this color egg , be broody or not

22:39

. There's a little list of expectations

22:42

and once you start deviating from that , you

22:44

don't have the same bird anymore . I'm

22:46

not convinced it should still be called that breed .

22:49

You're probably right .

22:51

It either conforms to the standard or it doesn't , and

22:54

if you're not , then it

22:56

doesn't really matter . Do whatever you want , I

22:59

guess .

23:01

Well , you may as well go down the crazy rabbit hole

23:03

of hybridizing and messing around that

23:05

way . I learned so much by

23:07

goofing off with yeah

23:09

, but we've got the owner's manual .

23:12

We've got the tune-up manual . In

23:14

the old auto days it used to be the Haynes or

23:16

the Chilton manuals . You got at the Auto Part Store along

23:18

with a socket set and you could fix anything

23:20

in your car . And the APA does

23:22

this standard of perfection , which is pretty much the same

23:25

thing for us . Yeah , If

23:27

you know how to read it and apply it .

23:29

That's our next episode . That's not this episode

23:31

. I know I've got to throw the bait

23:33

out there .

23:34

He's getting ahead of himself .

23:36

I know it's going to be exciting to talk about that one , because

23:38

I've been I want to get ripped-repped

23:40

up . I have a couple of questions about some of

23:42

the terms in that breed standard

23:45

That'll be interesting .

23:47

So having goals and birds that can fit

23:49

those goals is a good place to start

23:51

. Thank you , read selection

23:54

and , okay , buy the best starter

23:57

stock , eggs or trios . We've

24:00

covered that a little bit earlier .

24:03

I think another thing that most

24:05

folks don't do enough is

24:07

I like to try to sit back and reflect

24:09

on the birds

24:12

that I have and

24:14

compare them mentally to the birds that

24:16

I started with . And

24:18

if you can't see progress year

24:22

after year after year now

24:24

, folks , when I mean progress , you're not going to

24:26

make giant leaps forward . It's

24:28

going to be small steps at a time , so you should

24:30

see slow and steady progress

24:32

in your flock from year

24:34

to year to year . If you

24:37

do , it lets you know you're on the

24:39

right track . If you don't , if

24:41

you go okay , this year I got good

24:43

birds and then it took me three more years to

24:46

get a second improvement on it . I did

24:48

not go back and evaluate my breeding

24:50

techniques , my individual birds

24:52

, my management practices and style

24:54

everything .

24:56

I like to keep picture files so

24:59

I can go back and look at where I've

25:01

been that way and then go out to the barn

25:03

and look at what I have and

25:06

then , like you said , this time

25:08

of year before the breeding season

25:10

, I'm out there every day doing chores

25:13

and I'll take a couple of minutes and stare

25:15

at a pen and when I

25:17

come back inside I might dig into my picture

25:19

files and look at . There's

25:22

this one bird I had probably six

25:24

years ago . His tail was so crazy

25:27

long and sticking straight out and thin

25:29

and his angles were wonky

25:31

. His comb was terrible but

25:33

he was so meaty that I used him

25:35

for breeding and I have gained

25:38

distance from that bird and

25:40

I haven't seen a tail like his

25:42

since , which is great .

25:46

I'm trying to change tail angle too quickly . I

25:48

lost some body capacity , a

25:51

degree or two per year . Let's not jump

25:53

from 45 to 40

25:56

. Let's not try . I

25:58

don't think .

26:00

What is it that Rip had said ? Don't

26:02

use two extremes to try to find a balance

26:04

. Correctness .

26:06

Absolutely . That's

26:08

the whole key to corrective

26:10

mating . I've seen so

26:12

many times folks will . Let's

26:14

talk about Use John's example of tail

26:16

angles , and I'll pick

26:18

on Reds . Males should have an angle

26:21

on their tail of 20 degrees , and

26:24

if somebody's got some

26:26

that are taller than that , well

26:28

then , their philosophy is to use females

26:30

that have a perfectly flat back

26:32

or even drop their tail a little

26:34

bit . All that's going to do is give you

26:37

extremes . Thank you for joining us this

26:39

week and before you go , make

26:42

sure you subscribe to our podcast so you can

26:44

receive new episodes right when they're

26:46

released and they're released every Tuesday and

26:49

if you're enjoying this podcast , we'd

26:51

like to ask you to drop us an email at

26:54

poultrykeeperspodcast at gmailcom

26:56

and share your thoughts

26:58

about the show . So thank

27:00

you again for joining us for this episode of

27:02

the poultrykeepers podcast . We'll see

27:04

you next week .