0:00

mid february, 1996 for

0:03

fbi, agents arrived in lincoln montana,

0:05

an old gold-mining town on

0:07

the blackfoot river covert

0:10

we didn't

0:12

advertise who we were to the general

0:15

public dressed

0:18

like a normal fbi

0:20

agents, wouldn't suits and white shirts

0:23

and ties max

0:25

noll was leading the team and he

0:27

and three other did their best to blend in

0:29

they wrangler jeans

0:31

and western shirts with snap back buttons

0:34

drove around in a rented pickup truck they

0:36

, in and drop out of town trying

0:38

to stay undetected undetected spend their

0:40

nights about an hour away in the nearest

0:42

city nearest before

0:45

anyone in the f b i was going to arrest ted

0:47

kaczynski max his team had to figure

0:49

out exactly where he lived with wasn't

0:52

as simple as you might think because

0:54

kaczynski lived in a

0:56

rural area is address

0:58

was rural rural route number there

1:01

were no was addresses like

1:03

you have in towns and cities have in just

1:05

rural route somewhere for

1:07

whatever it was

1:11

eleven two weeks since david kaczynski

1:13

first reached out to the f b i for his lawyer

1:15

saying he had letters from his brother that sounded

1:18

an awful lot like the unit bomber

1:20

and those two weeks the leaders of the task force

1:22

had become convinced had we their

1:24

guy they couldn't just

1:26

swoop in and grab him that's not how it

1:28

works they had to get a search warrant

1:30

from a federal judge first they get

1:33

a search warrant they need to convince a judge

1:35

of two things one that

1:37

they had probable cause and to

1:39

the know exactly what they would be searching

1:43

and so we were cast

1:45

with

1:46

determining the precise location

1:49

of the cabinet and getting a

1:51

physical description of

1:53

the cabin the first day

1:55

and lincoln max out of montana based

1:57

f b i agent drive him a few miles down

2:00

simple pass road which disappears

2:02

into the forest south of town he

2:05

showed me a series

2:07

, mailboxes located on the

2:09

west side of the road road

2:12

of way said dumb ted

2:14

kaczynski or tj kaczynski i kaczynski

2:17

so we knew that we were in the right

2:20

neighborhood the mailboxes

2:22

all max could see and when he needed

2:25

to see and get photos of with

2:27

the cabinet south somewhere

2:29

up a narrow canyon surrounded by trees

2:31

well off the road we needed to

2:33

do that surreptitiously and

2:35

are not bring attention

2:38

to who we were and what we were doing

2:42

because we were concerned that

2:45

what good kaczynski find out that

2:47

we were there as law enforcement threats

2:50

he might possibly flee into the surrounding

2:52

mountains

3:00

an action is team start trying to sneak in undetected

3:02

i first plan is to

3:04

take snowmobiles up a trail that

3:06

runs on a hill above the cabin then

3:09

, a couple age and silently snowshoe down

3:11

toward it get photos and

3:13

get out out were probably

3:16

attorney seventy five hundred yards away from

3:18

it they heard it

3:20

open and close world

3:23

sound travels very well

3:25

at a high altitude in the mountains

3:28

and they knew the only occupied

3:31

cabin or building around there was

3:34

kaczynski cabin they

3:36

, the sound is probably tat and

3:38

immediately run off never see

3:40

the cabin much less take much less of the

3:43

report the failed attempt to unit bomb headquarters

3:46

and word comes back don't do

3:48

anything risky like that again we

3:50

used a spy satellite instead they

3:53

were very adamant about that

3:55

that you could take a photo from the satellite

3:57

of a dime on a street corner and sample

3:59

this go and read the date

4:02

and the inscription on the dime

4:04

maximum team send the coordinates that

4:07

are play with google earth right? super

4:10

high-tech cameras are going snap some pictures from

4:12

space and revealed a cabin in spectacular

4:14

detail and several

4:16

days later we got beautiful black

4:19

and white large photographs of

4:21

trees and lots of snow the

4:23

mostly useless in identifying

4:25

the cabin or for the affidavit

4:29

so , we were kind of that a conundrum

4:32

as to what to do they try

4:34

spy plane it circles the ten

4:36

thousand feet for half an hour snapping photos

4:39

then again they were beautiful pictures

4:41

of lots of trees and lots of snow that's

4:44

, mask as a tip from a local informant

4:47

informant montana fish and wildlife department sometimes

4:49

fly a plane low over the area

4:51

to monitor heard of else here ted's cabin

4:54

so cabin small airplane flying

4:57

over that cabin would not really

5:00

give much concern or took

5:02

his as game because it's a regular

5:05

thing on the part of the state fish and game people

5:08

the the rent a prop plane and go for it

5:11

they're not going to be way up in the sky with cutting edge surveillance

5:13

technology they're basically going

5:15

to buzz ted the

5:17

local pilot and one of the agents on max's

5:19

team the guy named dave weber we

5:22

gave him me or thirty five millimeter

5:24

era nikon camera with a two

5:27

hundred millimeter lands and off

5:29

they went into the wild blue yonder and

5:31

threw up the canyon and dave

5:34

hung out the side of the the window

5:36

of the plane and snapped some

5:39

very good pictures which truly

5:41

depicted the cabin

5:45

this is project

5:47

you know bomb an apple original

5:49

podcast produced by pineapple street studios,

5:51

i'm eric benson episode

5:54

7, the

5:56

arrest,

6:11

the informant who told max about the plane that

6:14

monitor the kurds was a guy

6:16

named but scaring he

6:18

was well known gregarious character and lincoln

6:21

you've been a green beret the bull rider

6:23

and now he ran a lumber mill just down the road

6:25

from ted's cabin ted

6:28

and david bought the land ted lived on

6:30

from but his dad back in the seventies

6:33

it's with ted's closest neighbor the

6:35

only way to get

6:38

to his cabin was going to

6:40

be amp up the mouth of

6:42

that canyon or ,

6:44

a private road

6:47

own buy books gearing

6:48

people coming to live off grade

6:51

in lincoln montana was

6:53

very normal

6:54

that's jamie gehring one of bush's daughters

6:57

which died in twenty twelve jamie

7:00

grew up in a small cabin her parents built

7:02

on a two hundred acre property that also

7:04

included the lumber mill the

7:06

area around them was full of dense woods

7:08

and vast hard to traverse expanses

7:11

the perfect place to live if you wanted to drop

7:13

out of society

7:14

there were some vietnam vets that

7:16

had moved to the area that

7:19

lived in the outskirts of lincoln

7:21

and they wanted privacy

7:24

and , would see them in town

7:26

at the gas station or at the grocery store

7:29

and you know they looked rugged

7:31

they looked like they lived in

7:33

the woods but they were still known

7:35

in the community we didn't need to know you

7:37

to they're you know we

7:40

are very aware of them

7:42

head was one of those guys in the woods it

7:45

wasn't that rugged the came to

7:47

town every now and then had a friend the relationship

7:49

with the local library and jamie

7:52

and our family would seem pretty often

7:54

my parents a in the early

7:56

years would just prefer to

7:59

the the hermits our neighbor the

8:02

hermit then

8:04

and there was never anything

8:07

negative they had had to say about

8:09

him i mean he was on

8:11

the surface the surface neighbor he kept

8:13

to himself and you

8:15

know if we met him in the driveway we might

8:18

chat for a couple minutes in the very

8:20

early years

8:21

they had ted over for dinner a few times in the

8:23

late seventies and early eighties dame he says

8:26

the time or on the relationship grew

8:28

more strained

8:30

the sawmill was definitely

8:32

a difficult thing for ted

8:36

he would hear the noise of the mill from

8:39

his cabin and anytime he

8:41

would needed cabin

8:43

and he would pass fired and it was just

8:45

i think a constant reminder

8:49

that he wasn't truly

8:51

able to able to the way he

8:53

wanted to

8:54

henry news journals that he'd come to lincoln

8:56

looking for peace and quiet that

8:58

instead even in the woods he

9:01

was tormented by grading mechanical

9:03

noise airplanes

9:05

snowmobiles chainsaws

9:08

the cosmos playing cosmos playing on him go

9:11

ahead live in your tiny cabin in the

9:13

middle of nowhere you still can't

9:15

escape technology when

9:17

you discover that one of his favorite places an

9:20

isolated plateau had been defiled

9:22

with a road the due to a journal

9:24

in greece it's as

9:26

if i had a taste of paradise

9:29

and then lost it that

9:31

had lashed out he , in detail

9:33

about some of the things we've mentioned before setting

9:36

booby traps for dirt bikers vandalizing

9:39

backwards cabins even shooting

9:41

ranchers cow

9:43

my my father's

9:45

saw mail with sanded

9:47

what what is sending a sawmill

9:50

if you put sand or sugar

9:52

into the engine of

9:55

the sawmill and it gets like into

9:57

the gas lines it shuts

9:59

down and so that's

10:01

exactly what somebody did too

10:04

the my father's family

10:08

there's no proof that ted did this the

10:10

did not stretch to imagine that he did the

10:13

time the f b i came to town to didn't

10:15

like books and but didn't like ted

10:18

and a packet birch controlled access to dead

10:21

cabin it made in the perfect candidate

10:23

to be the f b i key informant on the ground

10:26

the max went over to the lumber mill to meet him

10:28

this in a big fancy northwestern lumber

10:30

mill there's a one man operation which

10:33

has a are logged back that as the

10:35

great big saw on it that the blogs

10:38

come back to i mean it's right out of

10:40

the the you know the comic books type

10:42

of thing and we

10:44

met which had logged deck

10:47

know we were standing

10:49

outside and it was extremely

10:51

cold and there was there was snow

10:53

coming down and

10:56

i told books because i didn't want

10:58

only all my cards on the table right our

11:01

out front and i told

11:03

him i was with the f b i we were there

11:05

are conducting an investigation because

11:07

we believe that ted kaczynski

11:10

had been sending threatening letters

11:12

through the mail which was true

11:15

but it wasn't the complete truth it

11:17

your max quickly site each other up they

11:19

were both stout no bullshit flag

11:22

on their sleeve westerners they

11:24

could work together tobacco

11:26

but what is really going on that

11:28

they thought ted with the uni bomber eventually

11:31

they got friendly enough that which would give max shit

11:33

about the job the f b i was doing which

11:36

burying asked me one

11:38

day if we got a good picture of

11:41

him then i said what

11:43

are you me and butch and butcher

11:45

well i was standing out on my lumber

11:47

death before yesterday and

11:49

i heard the adrenaline of an airplane

11:51

flying around about ten thousand feet he

11:53

said hey said figured that was you guys

11:55

trying to get victory so victory waved at it

12:00

and

12:03

watch gearing became my eyes

12:05

in my ears i could go and

12:07

talk to butch i could call him on the

12:09

telephone and every morning butch

12:13

would dumb get up early as he

12:15

always didn't and he would walk up is good roads

12:17

and he would look at the

12:19

cabin hand determine if kaczynski

12:22

was still there because one of our principal

12:24

concerns was that he

12:27

was going to the

12:29

it out of that cabin in either escape

12:31

into the mountains whore the

12:34

matter that cabin him leave the area

12:36

with a bomb they

12:38

could never appeared the bush offered

12:40

to take max to him or at least

12:42

the property the what come on

12:44

let's go i'll walk you up there all

12:47

this time they'd been trying to spy on ted in secret

12:50

lepage assured max there's no reason

12:53

to worry even if he sees as

12:55

he won't be excited about seeing

12:57

me some always to come people up the skin

12:59

road so which

13:01

was to earth up

13:03

the skid road and up

13:06

as we got to a point right

13:08

, from kaczynski cabin

13:10

which was about forty yards away away

13:13

is butcher to chesapeake a

13:15

dogs flesh

13:17

does a deer out of that sick it and

13:20

started chasing it and they chased it right

13:22

across in front of kaczynski cabin

13:24

barking and growling is a traced

13:27

and all of a sudden the i'm door

13:29

to the cabin open and this

13:32

while looking individual stuck

13:35

his head and shoulders other the cabin in

13:37

look directly at us at

13:40

, time butch gearing just just

13:43

and says i daddy is just is and

13:46

he kind of nodded and went back

13:48

into the cabin and cabin remember

13:51

thinking to myself with the time

13:54

oh my god that's what we've

13:56

been looking for all these years because

13:59

the

13:59

some that i saw was not

14:02

the image that i had conjured

14:04

up a whole the

14:06

former mathematics professor

14:08

harvard graduate

14:11

oh yeah i suspect

14:16

i'm looking at a guy

14:18

who it's , perfect description

14:21

of the eccentric kermit

14:24

living , gym by twelve foot cabin

14:26

with no electricity no running water

14:28

and no visible means of transportation

14:30

others in a rickety old bicycle that

14:32

he rode the town and

14:35

it isn't convincing me that

14:38

he's the person who's built

14:40

what has become pretty sophisticated

14:42

the bombs and

14:44

been mailing them from san

14:47

francisco and oakland and sacramento

14:50

how underworld did he do that

14:52

so i didn't say

14:55

didn't or couldn't but i was

14:57

very skeptical of whether or not

14:59

it was possible

15:04

ted was the most wanted man in america

15:07

but they're on they're ground in montana in

15:09

real life the wasn't a seemingly

15:11

all powerful terrorist the

15:13

destitute recently

15:15

sold back half his property to david after

15:18

saying he wanted nothing to do with him ever again

15:21

because he needed the cash that

15:23

winter and early ninety ninety six he

15:25

was subsisting on snowshoe hairs he'd shot

15:28

with his rifle carefully tracking

15:30

the rations until the snow melted

15:33

weeks went by and had never even less

15:35

the cabin which in away was good

15:38

max and the other agents new he must be running low

15:40

on supplies you'd have to go

15:42

to town soon he would do that

15:44

the way always had he would the

15:47

on is a heavy coat it

15:49

was still cold up there he will

15:52

jump on his record a bicycle and

15:54

he would ride to tone down simple pass

15:56

road and when

15:58

that occurred we the webcam

16:01

swoop in and stop him

16:03

in the train him if

16:05

, had a bomb with him or a weapon with him

16:07

it wouldn't be easily available to

16:09

him and quickly take him into

16:11

custody or so we could serve

16:13

the warrant the f b i

16:15

kept his presence in lincoln small in

16:18

hour away in the city of helena the

16:20

bureau is ramping up as the early spring

16:22

arrived harry turkey

16:25

the head of the in a bomb task force and his boss

16:27

gym freeman or flying in and out

16:29

of helena bringing more and more agents

16:31

from san francisco which had

16:33

a downside there was a leak somewhere

16:36

among the hundreds of people who are now

16:38

in the loop about ted kaczynski someone

16:41

a doctor reporter the first

16:43

of april he became very apparent

16:46

that they knew that

16:48

we were investigating were investigating

16:50

suspect they believed his name

16:52

was krasinski somewhere

16:55

around lincoln montana

16:57

any time that a a major

17:00

case such as this one as a sign

17:02

that the washington field officers run

17:04

out of headquarters itself it

17:06

becomes one of your priority targets because

17:08

your competitors are going to see it that way

17:11

jimmy stewart was covering the justice department

17:14

for cbs news at the time and

17:16

, already done several stories about the uni bomber

17:19

throughout ninety throughout and early ninety six

17:21

whenever gym talked with his sources and federal law

17:23

enforcement it was the question if

17:26

you know bomber thing what are you hearing

17:29

one day i received information that was

17:31

very specific those

17:33

specific that it to the first thing out of you

17:35

know built i had to do was run by the

17:38

f b i this information

17:41

gave me the phonetic spelling

17:43

kaczynski his name he

17:45

, me his location and a remote

17:47

cabin cabin lincoln montana

17:51

and the fact that it was under surveillance by the

17:53

f b i the gym called the

17:55

f b i feel dogs in washington and

17:57

i repeated virtually verbatim what i've been

17:59

the old and waited for reaction

18:03

and after some balls

18:05

the person said hold on a minute

18:08

went and talked to somebody else the

18:10

two of them got back on the phone

18:13

the response was well your

18:15

own the right highway and you pick on the right exit

18:17

ramp

18:22

but the f b i wasn't just gonna confirmed him

18:24

stewart's info and leave it at that if

18:26

, ran a story that can easily

18:28

jeopardize the operation and tip off ted

18:31

kaczynski the of the i

18:33

still didn't even have didn't even warrant the

18:35

the f b i gets on the phone with the president

18:37

of cbs news to try and

18:39

work out a deal

18:41

i don't think anybody thought that the right

18:43

thing to do to put me on

18:45

the air immediately do is discussion

18:48

about oh here's their argument and

18:51

here's our consideration the

18:54

from our point of view cbs his point

18:56

of view we don't want

18:58

to do anything that's going to result in bodily

19:00

harm or or disruption of prosecution

19:03

it's the same time though we are proprietary information

19:07

the we you know m

19:10

m m gotten to thoroughly legitimately

19:13

then did we believed to be accurate and

19:15

were not in the business of withholding information

19:17

on the public

19:19

they agreed to hold the story if

19:21

the f b i guarantee them the scoop before

19:24

those calls with cbs the operation

19:27

in montana was a waiting game the

19:29

daddy f b i have no choice they

19:31

feel like they have to move suddenly

19:34

it seems like the entire taskforces hopping

19:36

on a plane from san francisco to helena but

19:39

a handful of agents are left behind including

19:41

weirdly cathy pocket

19:43

and this guy was crowing

19:46

about something finally happening in the case

19:49

he , deaths you wait a few in

19:52

in montana you ain't nobody in this case

19:55

i was standing right next to him when to him that

19:58

if you ain't montana you it says

20:03

i thought to myself ah

20:06

how do you think we got there we wouldn't

20:08

even be there if it wasn't for the work that we

20:10

did you have no idea about

20:17

capital she kept going to work waiting

20:20

to be called to montana eventually

20:22

she gets on the phone with joe moss the

20:25

agent who had shown cathy the twenty three page

20:27

essay a couple months earlier

20:29

i remember saying guy

20:30

the like

20:32

you know i'm just

20:35

i'm just not a part of this and i'm i'm sick about

20:37

it he said

20:38

you'll be here soon

20:41

happy also doctor boss terry turkey

20:44

the is one explicit instruction for her

20:47

do not call david

20:49

when they were executed a search warrant

20:51

because they they were

20:53

just paranoid that he would have some

20:55

way of of letting ted

20:57

know that we were on the way and it could be over

21:00

the continental divide broken up into canada

21:02

or something and i'm

21:04

they would forbid me to

21:07

contact him and warn him about the press

21:09

that we're going to be descending on him once this thing

21:11

went public thing that was imminent

21:14

before dawn on wednesday april third

21:16

max know drives out to a steakhouse called

21:18

the seven up ranch and resort on the

21:20

outskirts of lincoln the f

21:22

b i has rented it out as their command post

21:25

the , of the seven a brain injury or a nice

21:28

of of breakfast for

21:30

us from lots of lots and

21:32

all coffee these are people

21:34

willing to the we brought in the day before

21:37

arrived , the symbol there and

21:40

the gym freeman conducted

21:42

freeman briefing have

21:45

what everybody's responsibilities were

21:47

and where they would be an hour

21:49

would to go down we

21:53

had a short special

21:56

weapons and tactics briefing so that weapons

21:58

knew for sure short

22:01

they knew what their part was in this

22:03

handout i , i briefed

22:05

i'm a little bit on the the topography

22:07

in the geography and so forth forth

22:10

of that morning the f b i still didn't

22:12

have a search a the photos

22:14

they collected max his personal signing

22:17

of tad everything cathy pocket

22:19

gotten from david kaczynski since he agreed

22:21

to he them it was all compelling

22:24

but the justice compelling wasn't convinced

22:26

this , a huge case even

22:29

if they could get a federal judge to sign get

22:31

and they arrested ted he was going

22:33

to be represented by the best federal public

22:35

defenders in the country and they

22:37

would certainly challenged the legitimacy

22:40

of the search warrant and court did

22:42

the f b i really have enough

22:45

the i think there's a criminal division was

22:47

worried about whether there was sufficient

22:50

evidence

22:51

war a search warrant

22:53

jamie gorelick was the deputy attorney

22:55

general at the time the number two

22:57

and a d o j behind attorney general janet

22:59

reno

23:00

that the review of

23:03

the search warrant was the

23:05

elevated ah to

23:07

merit

23:09

merrick as in merrick garland the

23:11

current us attorney general

23:13

the time he was garlic stop deputy

23:17

a big sticking point for the d o j with

23:19

the search warrant depended largely on linguistic

23:21

analysis a comparison of ted's

23:23

old writings and the unit bombers manifesto

23:26

and communiques to the press this

23:28

was groundbreaking normally search

23:31

warrants are based on physical evidence eyewitness

23:33

accounts nuts and bolts police stuff

23:36

and it made all the lawyers very uneasy the

23:39

jamie america talked it out

23:40

the and i discussed sad and agreed that

23:42

the mashed wording was fish and

23:45

war

23:46

for the search warrant

23:49

the government still needed a judge to sign

23:51

off on the morning of april third terry

23:53

, in federal court trying to clear that

23:55

last turtle so max and

23:58

everyone else had nothing to do but we

23:59

the

24:00

and wait and wait

24:04

mid morning i think iran ten o'clock or something

24:06

that the gym , the telephone

24:08

call to seven up branch from terry

24:11

telling him that term term

24:13

judge had signed the signed city

24:16

, deploy a few agents

24:18

take up positions in l counting cabins

24:20

in ted's property to swat

24:22

team stressed and gilly suits those camouflage

24:25

jumpsuits covered in foliage that make people

24:27

look like swamp monsters form a

24:29

like around ted cabin max

24:32

, to butchers lumber mill the

24:34

plan is for max to approach ted's cabin

24:36

with two other people montana

24:39

based f based i agent named tom mcdaniel

24:41

and mcdaniel forest service officer named jerry burns

24:45

kaczynski knows jerry burns steve

24:47

interacted before so he's not going

24:49

in disguise but , and

24:51

the local f b i agent tom are posing

24:53

as surveyors from a mining company that

24:56

butch hired that winter to explore his property

24:59

ted knows about the mining company the

25:01

the up the i figures he won't be suspicious when

25:03

jerry the forest service officer

25:06

asks him to come out and show them were

25:08

his property line is freeman

25:11

finally said okay in on the radio let's

25:13

go in emotion

25:15

and that was a shortly before

25:17

noon on april third max

25:22

tom and jerry walk from bitches lumber

25:24

mill to ted's property line the

25:27

four yards to the cabin you're

25:29

exposed and out the middle of nowhere

25:31

and of also ,

25:33

he had the rifles in the cab

25:35

and i knew he had a thirty or six i know he added

25:37

twenty two as well as maybe

25:40

other weapons and and we

25:42

approach the cabin is a jury

25:44

was hailing him oh

25:46

we didn't hear anything in the camel and

25:48

we got right up to the cabin in

25:51

juri and tom were directly in front

25:53

of the cabins door i was standing

25:55

on the corner the cabin and

25:58

we were exposures

25:59

what about that

26:01

because they're posing as mining wraps they're not wearing

26:03

bulletproof vests no body armor

26:06

everything depends on had buying their disguise

26:10

no sound coming

26:12

from the cabin no response from within

26:14

the cabin for a split

26:16

second max doubts the whole plan

26:18

the wonders this really

26:21

going to work which

26:23

time the door open and

26:26

ted , gonna stood in the

26:28

door with the that is your directly

26:30

and promo juri burns burns

26:33

still love sets sets

26:35

the shake my head because he was covered

26:37

done in done in

26:40

a genes were essentially

26:42

riding off of him been holes

26:44

from they were drag and off him huge

26:47

the had and off wilde

26:50

sticking out all over ah

26:52

any smelled terrible he

26:54

had a body odor that i could smell

26:56

him for days afterwards there is

26:58

no way to describe it the time

27:00

for juri to convince dead to come out injury

27:03

said i mistook is a scam juri burnt

27:05

of us forest service way of these two gentlemen

27:07

here from the mining

27:09

, that's going to be doing

27:11

expiration her in the spring and

27:15

i'm trying to show them were your corner

27:17

posts are are so they don't

27:19

their employees don't encroach on your property

27:22

when they come up here to do their exploration

27:25

and his response was on my

27:28

corner posts are clearly marked injury

27:31

said well i understand that mr kaczynski

27:33

but they're still several feet of snow

27:36

and this canyon the can the they're

27:38

covered and it would sure

27:40

save us allotted time a few kmart

27:42

he showed them to us as opposed

27:45

to us cramping around on your property

27:47

and that got his attention he said well

27:50

okay and he started the

27:53

come out of the cabin because he was still

27:55

standing in the doorway and

27:58

he stopped and he said well let me

27:59

michael

28:00

in jury reached out grabbed

28:03

him tom wrap them up in a bear

28:05

hug and they're struggling around when

28:07

i got to walk around in front

28:10

of him with my weapon or

28:12

directly to his face identified

28:14

myself as an f b i agents and

28:17

that we were there to serve a search warrant on his

28:19

property

28:23

the he says those

28:25

words had stopped struggling

28:28

his muscles relax the know

28:30

he's not going to get away they

28:32

can often lead him down to one of the counting

28:34

cabins there was an old wood

28:36

burning the over there and only

28:38

source of heat for the cabin and

28:41

the agents or where their home from

28:43

a d f was trying to start a fire

28:47

the cabin was filling up with smoke

28:49

and kaczynski was sitting at this straight

28:52

back to her at this all

28:54

for my gut table and the

28:56

smoke was filling up the cabin and he

28:58

said the know

29:00

how to build a fire it is

29:02

set up , him in

29:05

so kaczynski said you need to open

29:07

the flu once he opened

29:09

the flu and stoke the fire

29:11

started to draw but ducks kaczynski

29:14

was i know that time to shake and essential

29:16

my god are these guys a cop mates they

29:19

can't even build a fire under cabins

29:26

inside the cabin a taskforce created

29:29

a display for tat timeline

29:31

showing the sixteen bombings photographs

29:34

from the incidents the forensics guess

29:36

based on the eyewitness citing eyewitness citing lake city

29:39

the idea with a my get tend to talk max's

29:43

to didn't even look at it it

29:45

kept asking me if he was under arrest

29:47

and i kept on him know lives under investigative

29:49

detention and he

29:51

kept saying well can i get up

29:53

and walk around i'd say known what

29:56

the handcuffs often i'd say no

29:58

he said well free to leave

30:00

and i said no and you look

30:03

doing any isis kind of sounds to me

30:05

like i'm under arrest actually

30:09

arresting ted for a crime depended

30:11

on what the f b i found in the cabin the

30:13

hope was a derby some trace of ted's crimes

30:16

maybe bomb making materials there

30:19

is nothing if it was just a cabin

30:21

in the woods the whole thing might unravel

30:23

quickly max his job

30:25

was to stay with ted while the other agents

30:27

conducted their search we're

30:30

gonna be here for a while while the search is going

30:32

on i don't know how long as going to take

30:34

up a like talk with you he

30:37

looked me straight the i and he said i'll

30:39

be happy to talk with you as long as we don't

30:41

talk about the case

30:44

so

30:45

for the next five hours we

30:48

talked about living in

30:50

the mountains same the foraging

30:52

in the mountains and hiking in the mountains

30:54

and the clear

30:56

blue sky sarah that you

30:58

fellers up on number contre draw back

31:01

in february and then

31:03

again later he would say right

31:06

you this men down at the miller cabin for

31:08

the last week or so they

31:10

hadn't realized the f b i was coming that

31:13

he knew something unusual without the

31:15

just hadn't quite put together and time the

31:18

was very apparent a term

31:20

he was very intelligent and articulate but

31:23

a one point one point afternoon i am

31:26

said i know

31:28

from what i've read that you were

31:31

a mathematics professor at

31:33

the university california berkeley and look

31:35

at a mass did you teach at berkeley any

31:38

guy sit up straight the chair and pulled

31:41

back and looked at me and said how

31:44

much mathematics did you have in school one

31:47

i had algebra and advanced

31:50

algebra geometry and solid geometry

31:52

and little trigonometry with a smattering

31:55

and calculus and a surface

31:57

at wouldn't do any good from nigger try to

32:00

blaine do you what i taught a guess you

32:02

wouldn't understand it

32:07

as

32:10

the day war on and debate was raging

32:12

inside the federal government can

32:14

we charged sky do we have enough evidence

32:18

it was evening on the east coast when the debate

32:20

made it's way to the top law enforcement officials

32:22

in the country louis freeh the

32:24

director of the of b i and janet reno

32:27

the us attorney general

32:29

it was passover and marriage and

32:31

invited janet to

32:33

his seder

32:35

deputy attorney general jamie gorelick

32:37

again

32:37

a movie called and said where

32:40

where in the cab and everyone is okay

32:42

we have found mom

32:45

making equipment

32:47

can we charge kaczynski

32:49

as the youtube bar

32:51

amy was an ad merrick garland passover seder

32:53

that night that she was in the loop

32:55

the

32:57

marriage do

32:58

discussing it with the attorney general

33:01

was that that

33:03

bomb making equipment would be sufficient

33:05

the charge

33:06

kaczynski with

33:08

they're shown a bomb making materials

33:11

the not to charge

33:13

that he was the

33:15

the power over

33:17

the next two weeks the evidence team because

33:20

they're worried about booby traps moves

33:22

painstakingly slowly through the cabin

33:24

they found alive bomb under ted's bad

33:27

a , corona typewriter with pick a font

33:29

in two point five four centimeters spacing

33:32

tucked in his last and what appeared

33:34

to be a master copy of the manifesto

33:37

industrial society and it's future i

33:40

wish point merrick after discussing

33:42

this with janet said

33:44

you can charge ted kaczynski was being

33:46

near bar

33:59

the third around the time max know was

34:02

walking up to ten cabin to apprehend him

34:04

molly flynn the agent who had first recognize

34:07

the significance of ted's twenty three page

34:09

essay got essay call a

34:11

b c cnn the times

34:13

in the post sprawl on the story now jim

34:17

stewart got scoop he went on the

34:19

air at three fifteen pm eastern time to

34:21

break the news that the f b i had detained

34:23

the suspected unabomber shortly

34:26

after that the world learned how the you

34:28

know bomber had been found nearly

34:30

every outfit reported it

34:32

he'd been turned in by his brother david

34:35

there's molly

34:37

i was kind of flabbergasted

34:39

and i was told by i think

34:41

our headquarters hey anita you need to get up to

34:44

connected he to help out they have no money because

34:46

are about to be bombarded by the media

34:50

i jumped on a plane

34:52

the matter couple hours and about

34:54

some i landed the whole thing it was

34:56

all over the news a possible

34:58

break for saving in the search for the

35:00

killer known as the you know bomber the

35:02

fb i has arrested a suspect

35:04

in montana after he was fingered by

35:07

relatives the media was camps in the mountains

35:09

of montana and they were camps and

35:11

the driveway of saw david of london

35:14

in schenectady federal officials tell nbc

35:16

news they put the man under surveillance after

35:18

family members found some of his old writings

35:20

they considered suspicious might be

35:22

going on at all throughout the year but

35:24

they're off now i would speculate to save

35:26

his as he his wife and his mother

35:29

if his mother his still in there have gone to bed

35:31

the f b i had assured

35:34

david david do everything they could to keep is

35:36

involved in secret that he pocket

35:38

had been working with him to collect heads writings

35:40

and use them as evidence knew how important

35:43

it was to david that he remain anonymous

35:46

the now his name was all over the national news

35:49

finally when i was given the okay to call him it

35:51

, way too late to warn him but i call

35:53

them and i heard the

35:56

in the background somebody at the microphone saying

35:59

i'm standing in the

35:59

front yard of the brother of the you bomber

36:02

guy turned his own brother him i

36:04

said i am so so you're going that through this

36:07

because we had talked about keeping

36:09

everything quiet and how we would do the best

36:11

we could to do that and

36:13

he said you

36:16

promised that you it up

36:18

and he hung up

36:27

after i call no one could get through to

36:29

david and linda not even their lawyer

36:31

tony the segway linda

36:33

change their phone number as soon as the news had

36:35

broken tv news crews

36:37

were now camped out in their front yard when

36:39

linda spotted linda cameraman climbing cameraman ladder

36:41

to try to film into their house she

36:44

blocked the window with towels and sheets

36:47

molly food been assigned to go see david and

36:49

linda decided she couldn't wait any

36:51

longer to get through to them he

36:53

waited for night then scrambled

36:55

to the backyards of several of david and linda's

36:57

neighbors eventually making your way to

36:59

their back door

37:01

maybe a dog barked or something and so you went

37:03

for somebody is your parents ought to get to their

37:05

back door and i had been in their house because i'd

37:08

taken their prince sites prince knew that

37:10

the backside was or their kitchen was

37:13

understood they were in there with there with

37:15

wanda kaczynski so it was

37:17

trying to tap at the back door lot enough

37:19

for them to hear

37:20

that out there were in the kitchen the

37:22

, allow that the media could hear and

37:25

eventually linda came to the window

37:28

made , gesture with her hands i go away and

37:31

honestly

37:32

even linda it's molly it's molly

37:35

so she

37:35

actually open the door day i

37:38

just said i have a message from tony and and

37:40

a got the message the and i decide

37:42

written something essentially they

37:44

call him so he could help them and

37:47

of the they they actually

37:49

witness said you know we don't trust you

37:51

don't trust any of you

37:54

tony arrived the next day david

37:56

i'm linda allowed him to address the dozens

37:59

of reporters camped their front yard he

38:01

told them there would be a press conference two days later

38:03

in washington and any media

38:05

organizations that remained outside david and

38:07

linda's house would be barred from attending that

38:11

queer the cameras out the

38:13

media gone molly went back to david

38:15

and linda as house he wasn't sure what

38:17

kind of reception she'd yeah

38:19

they let me and then

38:22

i was i

38:23

third face to face with

38:26

with what their situation and then

38:28

and

38:29

hold him out sorry i was

38:31

what what happens

38:35

then

38:36

the readable think about next to

38:39

their so tired

38:42

indo i

38:44

just told them that it was really unfair

38:47

the way they had been portrayed

38:50

david a trusted the f b i to keep his identity

38:52

hit

38:53

now he would international news the

38:55

but of late night jokes as

38:58

an earlier this week the f b i apprehended

39:00

the rest of the bomber the was turned in

39:02

by his brother his brother grill or phone

39:06

there would have come out eventually and and

39:09

a judicial process certainly

39:10

that the way it happened just kinda

39:12

got hit by a sledgehammer and

39:15

the i did express how they should

39:17

know that none of people but they dealt with

39:20

a person one of mad and that we

39:24

had their back sweet we do that

39:25

we're doing right thing for the right reasons

39:28

and now wanda was

39:30

like all poly don't crisis

39:32

the officer was

39:35

canada and amusing turn of

39:37

situation of situation but dumb that's

39:40

that's just people they were

39:43

in our earth day wonder

39:51

a quarter century later david

39:53

says you can still feel the trauma of those

39:55

first stays the awareness that

39:57

he had become something new the thing

39:59

that will have actually be the first line of his obituary

40:03

he was now and forever the unit

40:05

bombers brother the ,

40:07

that did feel feel

40:09

a bit of a of and

40:11

that the part that really hurt was to realize

40:14

that something that we'd one wanted

40:16

to keep secret which was our

40:18

role in this whole thing was

40:21

suddenly national news

40:25

worse than that i think it was that

40:27

i would have liked to us in

40:30

, ted wherever to know how or

40:32

why he was arrested i would have wanted

40:34

to be the one to tell him so

40:37

it can have added to the trauma the whole

40:40

situation i'm not sure i'd

40:43

rather ever would have understood but

40:46

, would have appreciated

40:49

the possibility of trying to explain

40:52

myself to him in person

41:00

david would never get that chance but

41:03

other people were talking to ted plotting

41:06

, next move move tried to

41:08

take advantage to push the ideas

41:10

out ideas you know for

41:12

christ's sake what else would what do you

41:14

want to answer to to say something and

41:17

to are listening in and just

41:19

kissing your pants instead of saying something

41:22

that's next time on the final episode

41:24

of project you know bomb

41:42

project unabomber is an apple original podcast

41:45

produced by pineapple street studios

41:47

this , was produced by elliot adler

41:50

and me america benson benson

41:52

senior producer is jonathan men have our

41:55

our producer is melissa slaughter editing

41:58

by joe level and matty spring either

42:01

or , checker is sarah every every

42:04

episode is mixed by davies sumner jason

42:06

richards elliot adler and jonathan

42:08

may he may studio recording

42:10

by brian stand of her at the texas at

42:12

studio our work is

42:14

by our m catharsis music

42:17

by mark m and john hancock additional

42:20

music by and philips and jeff baxter

42:23

legal services for pineapple street by

42:25

baxter grimshaw and granderson day russia

42:28

janet weiss berman and max lynskey or

42:30

the executive producers of pineapple three

42:33

thanks for listening