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With changing market, investing

0:02

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as a national finalist for twenty twenty two

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your portfolio in any market,

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whether it's financial freedom or a more

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This is a momentum media production.

0:48

Welcome

0:48

to the Smart Property Investment Show.

0:50

The podcast by investors, four

0:53

investors.

0:55

Okay. Hey, guys. It's Phil Towing here. Host

0:58

of the Smart Product. That's to show. I hope you're well

1:00

joining me in the studio. He's back very

1:02

popular, this particular guest. I don't know why.

1:06

He he seems to come in every now and then and

1:08

let us know what's going on. But he's

1:10

making moves. That's that's a business. I've

1:12

been watching for quite some time, very impressed by

1:15

this and the back story is a really good one

1:17

as well. He's he's got a book. You know, I'm checking

1:19

out. No doubt we'll have a chat about because he loves the

1:21

plug it whenever he gets the chance. Of course.

1:23

Laughlin Vidler from Atlas Property Group

1:26

is a director there. Laughlin, hang on, mate. Good. Feel Welcome

1:28

back. Thank you. Good to see you. It is. I

1:30

love coming back in the studio whenever I can. Yeah.

1:32

No. It's

1:34

I quite liked it that you're one of the the first

1:36

out of the traps to say, Co is largely

1:39

behind us now. Let's get back face to face and

1:41

you get so much more

1:43

zing

1:44

when you do this in person rather than looking

1:46

at each other of Zoom. Absolutely. And

1:48

the microphones are a lot better in here than my ones

1:51

at home. So it did sound a bit better. This

1:53

is high fidelity. You're tuning in this

1:55

high high definition, but It's

1:57

the way we'd like to do it. And and Laughlin, and

1:59

I'll sort

1:59

of point this out. And for those of you who've been tuning into

2:02

this podcast for many years, you know, it's pretty

2:04

off the cuff. typically just have a about property

2:06

with a whole bunch of different people from right across.

2:08

The property ecosystem, but Laughlin,

2:10

and no doubt, you see this inside of his business

2:13

as well. I haven't looked under the hood, but I'm just assuming

2:15

that a slight this is very, very

2:17

thorough. I actually had a briefing

2:19

paper for when Laughlin's coming in and based

2:22

my job much easier, which means I don't have

2:24

to think as much. So what

2:26

is it? There's some adage around sort of practices

2:28

you do and blah blah blah and no doubt

2:31

the thoroughness of this briefing and it's got

2:33

points and a's and b's and c's. Again, it's

2:35

probably to your military leaning. Your book

2:37

was called It's probably starting to do that. I mean

2:39

-- Yeah. -- what's the saying? It was six or seven

2:41

p's prior preparation prevents --

2:44

Something -- seven p's. But

2:47

anyway, though I can look better,

2:49

I'll take it. So thank you for the great briefing.

2:51

But, Laughlin, you've brought someone along with it

2:53

today, which is cool. we like to have these

2:56

chats, and and this is very much podcast for property

2:58

investors. And it's pretty much part of

3:00

his DNA. It's a heartbeat, and it has been like that

3:02

for many years where we we have a aunt or the investors.

3:05

what they're up doing, how they're going through a proper

3:07

investment journey. And if you think back now to how

3:09

long we've been doing this and the different

3:11

market cycles we've been in, you know, there's a lot

3:13

of flavor of attitudes and responses

3:16

to and heartache from and successes

3:18

within property that property investors come in

3:20

and have a chat with this. Zoe Emmanuel.

3:23

He's in the studio with a say, works

3:25

with Laughlin. She's on a pathway for

3:27

wealth creation through property. I reckon she's

3:29

gonna be a pretty good guess, though. Thank

3:31

you. hope so. I'll do my best.

3:33

So, score her so far because

3:36

off air, we have a chat, and you said you're a drama

3:38

-- Yes. -- and performing -- Arts

3:40

teacher. -- art teacher. now podcasting

3:43

is probably

3:44

drama and performing arts. Right?

3:46

Scores. Scores. Scores. studio. Critique.

3:51

is a

3:51

professional outfit. I like it. I'm

3:53

sitting around a desk. I've got a proper microphone

3:55

in front of me. I'm feeling the vibe. It's

3:57

it's great. You're You've been doing this a while

3:59

your

3:59

season. Do you know what you're doing? Well, what can me

4:02

and Laughlin do to be more engaging and entertaining

4:04

do you think? Oh, come on. really?

4:06

Big, big, big. Know what we're talking

4:08

about probably help.

4:09

No. Look, I have been listening to you

4:11

for five years. I'm I'm a bit of fangal.

4:14

You know? I'm in going, I'm meeting the real

4:16

the flesh and blood

4:17

side. He's real. He's just I'm a tiny bit

4:19

nervous. Is this what is this what you thought?

4:21

Is it as in this? Are you?

4:24

I think I'm funny people go, oh, yeah.

4:26

Not really what I thought, you Yeah. He's

4:28

interesting always putting a

4:30

face to the name, I have to say. Voice.

4:33

Sorry. You're right. The voice to that. See, I'm nervous.

4:36

There you go. A voice to the name and Yeah.

4:39

I think I've seen pictures of you on

4:41

the website. So I kinda had a bit

4:43

of an idea because I I use all your

4:45

tools and -- That's cool. -- I haven't used it

4:47

very effectively.

4:48

That's okay. Well, you can see that.

4:50

I haven't done them as well as I could.

4:52

But no. I think your voice

4:54

matches your body and your face and Okay.

4:56

Yeah. You've got a good raised an invoice for radio.

4:58

Not not an out of play. They're out of play.

5:01

Right. Well and and the question I've got and

5:03

and, you know, to me and and already been

5:05

doing this for a year, but it's a great way for me to

5:07

learn. Right? Learn so much different

5:09

stuff from different people. Mhmm. How much,

5:12

you know, this is you drawing on your skill set when

5:14

you do for living -- Yes. -- is sort of tonality

5:16

and Oh, punctuation. very much. Like,

5:18

there's a skill set because I I know how my

5:21

my kids the skill sets I'm trying to

5:23

teach them, you know, like, reading and writing. Now,

5:25

that's sort of stuff out. Right? Yeah. But they just couldn't

5:27

do that. They can do that. Yeah. They're like

5:29

communication, negotiation, influencing

5:32

skills, how you use words to communicate,

5:34

shape direction, like, so important. So important.

5:36

And

5:36

in fact, that's why I think drama is such

5:38

an undervalued -- Yeah. -- subject

5:40

at school because it

5:43

gives you those life skills that they don't really

5:45

teach you. And not all parents know about that.

5:47

Not all parents are equipped in that

5:49

area. So it's more

5:51

than just the voice. It's actually the body. It's how

5:53

you present. It's how you stand

5:56

and eye contact. Like, a lot of

5:58

people don't have that confidence. So

6:00

you I don't think these are natural skills that you're

6:02

born with. They're things that you acquire

6:04

over time. Some people are lucky that they're

6:07

brought into a world where their family kinda

6:09

get it and teach their kids and

6:11

parents play vital role. But a lot

6:13

of kids, they don't get that exposure.

6:16

And so drama is

6:19

like

6:20

key. This key. For communication, completely

6:23

green. I think it's gonna be the the competitive advantages

6:25

for kids of the future coming

6:27

to the workplace is, you know,

6:30

the skills around coding and all that sort of stuff.

6:32

gonna be largely commoditized. Right? It's it's it's

6:34

it's In robots, and let's -- Yeah. -- take over.

6:36

You know, so how can you actually have a point of difference

6:38

as human these days? But I was

6:41

in a, like, a workshop session with some of

6:43

our team here little while ago, and we'll talk about see,

6:45

our editorial team, and everyone's talking about the sort of

6:47

upskilling they'd like to do. And I went, you know what I like

6:49

to do? I like to do some acting training. Actually

6:51

and they said, why is that a win?

6:54

Well, in many ways, that's what we're doing

6:56

our job, you know, from at a cocktail

6:58

party, you know, from a guest at a

7:00

dinner or a lunch and stuff, you know, you

7:03

gotta be on. Right? So, you know,

7:05

you can learn this stuff. You absolutely can. And

7:07

if you learn it, you get better at tune to enjoy

7:09

a lot more room being a chore. Right? Yeah.

7:11

Yeah. Yeah. Alright. And we're up the road. Alright.

7:13

Here we go. You can get some coaching I

7:16

came in for Puerto Rico. Yeah.

7:19

You see what you did? Yeah. Yes. Right. Yeah.

7:23

Part of the skills. Part of the bills. So

7:25

you're not only a a drama

7:27

and performance singer, you sing

7:29

for as well. Yeah. Yeah. Just just made

7:31

an album, actually, with our kids. Mhmm. Yeah.

7:34

wouldn't

7:34

Well, it's coming out. won't give you too much away.

7:36

No.

7:36

Yeah. Secret. Yeah. There you go. Okay. But

7:39

you're also a property investor. Yes. Or are you a

7:41

property investor? And on the side, your side hustle?

7:43

No. yet. It's not. Not

7:45

yet. Not yet. Not getting that.

7:47

So and and you've been working with Laughlin

7:50

his business for a little while?

7:51

actually since twenty one, only a year.

7:53

Okay. Yeah. So it's a new new

7:55

relationship, but it's a I've had a great

7:57

experience.

7:57

seen a good one pretty well. Yeah. No.

7:59

I've seen

7:59

a good one pretty well. No. You're not seeing

8:02

a good one pretty well.

8:03

They say, you know, already. You get it.

8:06

Yeah. No. It's been a really good

8:08

experience for me. And so,

8:10

actually, the way it

8:12

all started was when

8:15

I was pregnant, I was

8:17

getting my ultrasound. And

8:19

because I've always

8:20

think this would start Oh, no. No. That's

8:22

it. day there. just gonna give you a little You're gonna

8:24

teach her a lot. A story tell story

8:26

to And the woman

8:27

said to me, we were talking about,

8:29

you know, how to get into the Sydney market

8:32

and how it is, and being on the

8:34

kind of I was teaching at the time and

8:36

my income wasn't great and,

8:38

you know, all those sorts of things that's like, how

8:40

am I ever gonna buy home? And

8:42

she said, well, you

8:44

rent where you wanna live and you buy where you don't

8:46

wanna live. And I'm like, oh, when something

8:49

clicked, And then years went by

8:51

as a single mom, blah, blah, blah, doing my thing.

8:53

And then I got to a point where my

8:55

income was pretty good. I was starting to feel bit more

8:57

comfortable. My business was going well.

8:59

And I found out about you guys

9:01

podcasting and and listening to

9:04

smart property investment. And for me,

9:07

investing in property always felt

9:09

like beyond my reach. It was like, how am I

9:11

ever gonna invest in property? But

9:14

what I love about you guys is you talk about

9:16

it in a way that's so accessible, you

9:18

know, and the whole it opened me up to this

9:20

whole borderless idea and buying

9:23

properly that's not too expensive and all

9:25

that kind of thing. And so

9:28

the first point of contact

9:30

through you guys because I listened to the interview

9:32

was my mortgage broker. Okay. I'm gonna give him

9:34

a plug. Is that alright?

9:36

Can't do it is. I'll

9:38

enter the app for that link. Okay. Now

9:40

who is it?

9:40

It's Michael Zia -- Okay. -- mortgage channel.

9:42

They're fantastic. So he helped me buy my first

9:45

one. Just gave me a bit of instructional

9:47

way to help me find the right property, and

9:49

I bought a property out in Logan, in

9:52

Chris Meade. That was great. And then

9:54

my second property I kind

9:56

of thought, oh, might try and do this by myself.

9:59

But being a

10:01

business owner and all the time, it

10:03

requires to invest

10:06

and find the right property. was feeling a bit nervous.

10:08

Mhmm. And so then I heard another interview with

10:11

yours

10:11

truly just to make me feel like. Yeah.

10:13

Okay. and I

10:14

liked the sound of him

10:17

because there's a lot you can tell by someone's voice,

10:19

I'll tell you that. And so

10:21

I gave him call and we had a good chat on

10:23

the phone. I called another company as well.

10:25

I don't

10:25

know if you told me that. I know. I

10:28

know a lot of competition.

10:31

Yeah. Good.

10:31

And I went with you. And

10:33

we had a great experience. So it

10:35

was like, he

10:37

kind of

10:38

nurtured me along the whole way. He

10:41

listened to what I was looking for.

10:43

He presented you know, everything's,

10:45

as you say, super professional. And I

10:47

just felt really at

10:49

ease. Mhmm.

10:51

And I didn't feel so nervous

10:53

about because the thing about

10:55

investing in properties, you wanna make the

10:57

right decision. That's

10:58

the idea. You

10:59

know, like, you can go so

11:01

wrong and you hear stories about people buying

11:04

these properties. Like, I had this whole dream

11:06

about buying in Western Australia because we've done a lot

11:08

of traveling around me, my partner, that I have

11:10

now. We've done a bit of traveling around Western Australia,

11:12

and we're totally in love with it.

11:14

bassleton, Margaret River. Not

11:16

current art areas. Margaret River, a

11:18

horrible job. A horrible right.

11:20

And it's got everything you could possibly want,

11:22

and it's so affordable.

11:24

But, you

11:25

know, is it a place to invest? because the market's

11:27

so volatile. So I just was like, oh,

11:30

god. What do I do? And then you're looking

11:32

at Queensland again. And because

11:34

there's been this incredible upsurge

11:36

and there's so much buoyancy in that

11:39

regional market, you can go

11:41

wrong because things can drop out, markets

11:44

can change and swing, and so

11:47

I just feel so much comfortable being under.

11:49

Laughlin's wing, you know, learning him leaning

11:51

him guide

11:52

me. Well, it's like a a phone a friend and Tom

11:54

you need it and have hanging on the side. Right? That's the reason

11:56

why a lot people use use buyer's agents

11:58

and, you know, this one from investor show, we've been very

12:00

sort of vocal around this particular growing

12:03

market segment. Oh, really, fast for ten years, a lot

12:05

more people will be using buyer's agent, but

12:07

know, lot of people got to me, I feel, you know, a lot

12:09

about probably blah blah blah blah. Why don't

12:11

you do it yourself for a guy? Well, I could do it myself.

12:13

I don't wanna do it myself. I don't have

12:15

the time, energy, inclination, networks,

12:18

relationships, knowledge, all that sort of stuff.

12:20

So I'm happy to to use a trust

12:22

professional help me buy a proper I completely

12:24

get it, particularly as a business owner. You

12:26

must appreciate just the,

12:28

you know, the valo of time. You know,

12:30

you better off spend probably work on your business

12:33

and getting someone smarter than you -- That's right.

12:35

-- doing that. Well,

12:35

I've gotta keep my serviceability up, don't

12:37

That's right. But that's the important work

12:39

that you've gotta do. Right? You know? So Yeah.

12:42

So you bought your second property through Laughlin,

12:44

and then you have the family property is now I've

12:46

got three. I've just we just purchased one

12:48

of those. did. We don't give it too much I'll get into

12:51

that a little bit later on. Yeah. But that

12:53

will put you sort of into the top. I don't know.

12:55

Sort of handful of property investment in Australia, there are more

12:57

properties. because most people get one. one

13:00

and two, measure one and probably

13:02

because they bought the wrong place in

13:04

Margaret River at the wrong time. Right. You

13:06

know? So the reason why Most of

13:08

them only own one investment properties because they

13:10

buy the wrong investment property in

13:12

the way what happens. So -- Yeah. -- it's been we're

13:14

down that pathway ourselves. you know,

13:16

this particular podcast is try and change

13:18

that. The fact that you're listening to podcasts and working

13:21

on educational sort of stuff, you're you're ahead of the curve

13:23

anyway. Right? A lot people still just wait

13:25

to go to a seminar somewhere and get sold some

13:27

of the planned development somewhere. Right? That's typically

13:29

what happens. Even though there is so much information

13:31

out there that says, probably don't a good idea.

13:34

Sometimes you can lock it, but most of the time

13:36

you don't. So we'll get a little bit into the

13:38

mechanics of your portfolio, but Moklin, It's been

13:40

a little while since we got together. Mark's

13:42

has changed quite a lot. It's headlines

13:44

all over the papers. Every new

13:47

should probably listen to, flavor, the probably

13:49

the flavor of the month. Now a number of interest

13:51

rate rises recently, we're in a rising rate environment,

13:53

how long that that continue? Who knows? Can

13:56

you give me some sense of the market right now? Just to

13:58

catch oil because we'll drill down in little bit

14:00

into a little bit further, but how's

14:02

things tracking at the moment? Well, I mean,

14:04

like, I think things are tracking perfectly fine.

14:07

And and I mean, I know there'll be some people

14:09

who listen and probably say, oh, you know, he works

14:11

as a bias agent. He's got a vested interest to

14:13

say that. But realistically, you know,

14:15

and I'll unpack that in a in a sec. But

14:17

realistically, this is still a really,

14:19

really well performing time going on.

14:22

And if we look around the country, there

14:24

are a lot of things that still support

14:26

very much, you know, well performing

14:29

property. Right? We've got whether we

14:31

look at the national level, whether we look at the state

14:33

level, whether we bring down into, like, regional

14:35

groupings. And when I say regional groupings, I don't

14:37

necessarily mean noncapital c's, I

14:39

just mean, literally grouping geographical areas

14:42

into regions. Ultimately, property

14:44

is based on supply and demand. Right? Property

14:46

values increasing its supply and demand. And

14:49

without sugarcoding it, we are in a national rental

14:51

crisis. When you look at the numbers, we've got

14:53

less properties for rent and less property

14:55

selling than we did in the period, pretty COVID.

14:58

and both of those obviously go towards

15:00

supply. We've got a population that's

15:03

increased. We've still got relatively limited

15:05

to migration that's going to pick up. We've

15:07

got the government announcing additional student

15:09

sports. We've got the government announcing additional

15:12

working positions for professionals because,

15:14

you know, like a lot of places around the world,

15:16

we have shortages in

15:18

skill sets. to me, that

15:20

continues to add to demand. When look at

15:22

the rental crisis and property managers getting thirty,

15:25

forty, fifty applications for good properties.

15:27

To me, Cool. We've come out of COVID.

15:29

The property market wasn't driven by COVID

15:32

per se. It just happened at the same time.

15:34

And

15:35

we've got rates moving Cool. That's

15:37

gonna dampen demand a little bit because serviceability

15:39

drops and things like that. But realistically, we've still

15:42

got a property market that can't really support our population

15:44

as it stands today. when it keeps increasing

15:46

through natural increase, so births and deaths

15:49

and migration. Yeah. And that's all

15:51

we'll kick him back in we're seeing from the

15:53

government intent to sort of drive growth

15:56

through skilled migration. You know, there's

15:58

the impact on property. I wanna get into

15:59

a little bit more. We just got a quick break so whether there's a run back

16:02

in a moment.

16:05

Welcome

16:06

back everyone to Phil Tarrant, host of the smartphone investment

16:08

show of Laughlin Biedler, director of Atlas Property Group,

16:10

also joined by one of his clients. Zoe

16:12

Emmanuel and her story in

16:14

property. But before the brake lock and we're chatting through,

16:17

generally, the sort of state of the

16:19

market just to drill down a little bit more

16:21

into this because people are asking me questions all the time

16:23

around this and be remissing me not to

16:25

sort give everyone an update because it's

16:27

moving so quickly. But that said also, markets

16:30

move quickly, but the general trajectory

16:32

of property is always upwards. Right? I don't think there's been

16:34

period of time of over five years

16:37

where there hasn't been upwards ticking properly. So

16:39

yet, softening up a little bit at the moment. Are

16:41

you seeing sort of marked differences from different places

16:43

around country right now? Or is there a catchall slowing

16:46

down of the property market? How would you of

16:48

would you give sense for the movements in different

16:50

states? I would say that there's definitely noticeable

16:53

differences between locations. Right? Whether you're talking

16:55

like cities or you're getting into regions or

16:57

you're know, you go up as high state or national. Mhmm.

17:00

There's definitely differences. And I think

17:02

that to me, that sort of is based

17:04

on each locations fundamentals

17:06

already. Right? You know, if you look at say a regional city,

17:09

maybe it's got two hundred thousand people, maybe it's got

17:11

lots of different industries. Right? So it's a fully self

17:13

sufficient area. But maybe

17:15

they have had a lot of property performance and realistically,

17:17

the people at that time can't really afford

17:19

to have much going on. Right? So it's not dropping.

17:22

It might just taper in that case. there's

17:24

then other situations where things are ticking

17:26

along just fine. Right?

17:28

Like, very much fine. And we're still seeing great

17:30

results from clients who are say, going and doing

17:32

a refinance, and they're still getting valuations done

17:35

now. Three or four months post the

17:37

start of the increase of the the

17:39

razors, the cash rate rises or increases.

17:41

and they're still doing just fine. And when we're in

17:44

markets, a lot of them are still really competitive. So

17:46

I guess it comes down to research, understanding

17:48

what's going on, And just

17:50

as it was when markets were hot,

17:53

ultimately, you've gotta understand why you're investing

17:55

in a location. And if you do understand that, you're

17:57

gonna understand why it's either moving up, why

17:59

plateau to why in some cases, you know,

18:01

they are going down. Right? So

18:03

what has changed sort of mostly

18:05

since interest rates started rising and

18:07

anything that really stands out for you?

18:10

I would say that, realistically, the biggest change

18:12

we're seeing are emotional ones. They're

18:15

not actually based on fundamentals. They're not

18:17

actually based on fact or anything like that.

18:19

It's more people's emotions getting in the way. Right?

18:21

We're having some situations where we've got we're

18:23

buying properties and we've got vendors who

18:25

understand that it's still a competitive

18:27

market in some locations and they drive that. Right?

18:30

And we still got to pay, you know, fair

18:32

price. Right? Or maybe a bit below market value

18:34

or a fair price to pick up a deal. but then

18:36

we've got other places where owners

18:38

get skittish. And then we can sort of, you

18:40

know, for lack of better term, exploit that and

18:42

and really drive home or, hey, maybe this is

18:44

a changing market. And we can pick up great deals,

18:46

but then when we take it to the bank, we're

18:49

we're getting great valuations coming back on it.

18:51

So I think the biggest thing I'm saying is not really

18:53

anything rooted in fact. It's all emotional.

18:56

And that's, you know, as most people would

18:58

say, that's the best time to be buying property.

19:00

Well, that's what I was saying. It is a very sentiment

19:03

driven market. And I think people and

19:05

this, there is why they they hike rates because

19:07

the idea is that, which is kind of cyclical

19:10

to most people, but stop frugal sense

19:12

spending in other ways, you know. And imagine

19:14

that's one of the impacts that

19:16

this rising rate cycle has,

19:18

but where else do you think sort of

19:20

current future performance of property

19:22

markets will head as result of all these

19:25

changes? I think it's still

19:27

an interesting time. Right? I'm not gonna I'm not gonna

19:29

sugarcoat and say, oh, it's still it's perfect, Dora

19:31

was where we were twelve months ago. But realistically,

19:33

if we look to we're almost October

19:36

now. We we looked at sort of, you know, June, July,

19:38

August, September last year. There were still

19:40

vocal people saying, oh, we're now at the end of it. Right? then

19:42

it went on for another almost twelve months. and then

19:44

here we are now. And well, I can tell

19:46

anyone out there. There are still places performing

19:48

really well. So I think where

19:50

are we heading? There's gonna be sentiment

19:53

concerns for as long as the

19:55

cash rate continues to move because

19:57

that naturally makes people skittish. And that naturally

19:59

will dampen some demand. But

20:02

as you sort of alluded to earlier,

20:05

we might be at the end of these fifty basis

20:07

point or zero point five percent increases. We

20:09

might now be at an end of that, right? We might now

20:11

decrease twenty five basis

20:13

points, maybe thirty basis points, but starting to

20:15

come back. And the Reserve Bank in

20:17

their monthly minutes have indicated

20:19

that as well that things are changing.

20:22

I think once we get a bit of stability, which

20:24

most people are expecting towards the end of this

20:26

year or start of next year, sentiment

20:29

will even out. property investors are emotional

20:31

despite what they might say. So once

20:33

a motion, any emotional concerns get pulled

20:35

out with will probably,

20:37

in my opinion, happen once these these movements

20:39

start to stop or normalize. We're

20:42

then gonna come back to ultimately the fundamental

20:45

because the emotion has now been taken out of it. People

20:47

will now go, alright, let's look at facts and figures because

20:50

we don't have anything else to rely on. And

20:52

they'll look and they'll go, hang on a minute. We are still

20:54

in a rental crisis. are still in a supply shortage.

20:56

We are still in a very high demand period,

20:58

and we've got mass migration coming that's gonna

21:00

add to that as well. So think

21:03

a lot of people are really expecting that come

21:05

maybe even this time next year.

21:07

We could be in a very general

21:09

national upward trajectory again.

21:12

Yeah. And this is a tough one with property because,

21:14

you know, everyone sort of gets out of crystal ball

21:17

and gazes and stuff. And I tend to agree

21:19

with you. I think this cycle,

21:21

you we may get another fifty basis points who

21:23

knows, but it will start the tape, and it will be sealing.

21:25

Right? Of course. And most people invest

21:27

within their heads within bottom between

21:29

their ears. And and you'll see with property

21:32

investors as soon as that ceiling takes place and

21:34

how long it stays at that ceiling, whatever

21:36

that number is. And I bet you as soon

21:38

as you see a negative movement on

21:40

interest rates, markets will light up again.

21:43

Mhmm. And that's just the nature of property and and what

21:45

happens. But It's all about making smart

21:47

decisions right now when, you know,

21:49

Zoe's chosen to use a a buyer's

21:51

agent like a lot of other strains to

21:53

support him on this journey. you know, what are

21:55

the two sort of pillars do you think for buyers' agents

21:57

right now and ensuring their clients can get the best

21:59

outcomes?

21:59

Well,

22:01

I think

22:02

a lot of people go to a buyer's agent, and to be honest, they

22:04

can have some unrealistic expectations. And and

22:06

people do have short memory, and they they look

22:08

at last two or three years and they go, If

22:10

I'm getting less than ten percent, it's a fail. If I'm getting

22:12

less than fifteen percent, it's a fail. Realistically,

22:15

I mean, I can't quote AAA

22:17

data point here. The Reserve Bank

22:19

in twenty fifteen did a thirty year time

22:21

series study on property prices.

22:23

And, yep, that that it's a few years ago now,

22:25

but it's still pretty presold number. Mhmm. And they

22:28

said that national prices moved seven and a

22:30

quarter percent each year. Right? Of course, that's

22:32

thirty percent some years and five percent

22:34

or two percent others. But averaged out

22:36

annually to seven point two five. CoreLogic

22:39

did a really, really good piece, maybe

22:41

a month or two ago now, and they also went and did

22:43

some data some data analysis

22:46

on the last thirty years. And I think that they said that

22:48

their number was around six

22:50

percent odd. And it's a compounding. Right? It's a

22:52

compounding. Yeah. Did just wanna explain that

22:55

Absolutely. Well, so the difference in property

22:57

or any asset that compounds is that you can earn

22:59

growth on your growth. Right? So if you earn if you

23:01

got a property, it's five hundred thousand. you get ten

23:03

percent growth at the end of that first year, it's worth five

23:05

fifty. If it then does another ten percent

23:08

the next year, it will go up

23:10

fifty five k. Right? So the first year only

23:12

went up fifty, second year goes up fifty five.

23:14

So that extra five k that you earn

23:16

from compounding is like interest on your interest

23:19

or growth on your growth. And that's what they try to teach us when

23:21

the Commvault Bank tried to sell us dollar my accounts

23:23

back to school. Right? You know, the beauty of converting.

23:25

And some people call it the seventh wonder

23:27

of the world. Right? Yeah. Compounding compounding

23:29

intra strong -- Yeah. -- about in growth. Hundred

23:31

percent. But that's But I want it on your credit card.

23:33

No. I want it on your credit card. No.

23:36

I want it the other way. and it also hurts your

23:38

borrowing capacity. It doesn't matter. Yeah.

23:40

No credit card debt, please. But yeah.

23:42

So I think that that ultimately property

23:44

has long term demonstrated performance, but

23:46

when you're in any market, whether it's a really

23:49

hot market like it was last year and and to

23:51

an extent the year before, or whether it's now where to

23:53

be honest, we're moving back to normality. there's

23:55

two things you gotta do as

23:57

a buyer's agent or two things you gotta look out for when

23:59

you're looking for a buyer's agent. First one is you

24:01

obviously want them to make money. Right? That's a given.

24:03

Right? You go use a professional, particularly in your finance

24:06

or investment space. You're you're expecting them to be

24:08

there and help you make money. But the second

24:10

point, which is what I think a lot of people really

24:12

forget and it's a lot of people chasing the new shiny

24:14

toy, whatever it might be. And and in this and for

24:16

us, new shiny toy is new locations

24:19

that really don't have

24:21

anything long term to justify

24:23

long term performance. The

24:26

other thing that you've got to look out for or

24:28

or a buyer's agent's gotta do is they've gotta ensure

24:30

that they're not losing your money either because

24:32

it's all going well to get, you

24:33

know, twenty percent growth But then

24:35

when you lose twenty five, thirty, forty

24:38

percent, you've lost everything anyway.

24:40

And, you know, not to call any

24:42

one location out. But for example, Perth,

24:44

Right? Lots of different areas of Perth. I'm

24:46

not saying that they've all done this. Right? But a good

24:49

number of areas of Perth, if you go back and you'll get the data

24:51

ten years ago, like, right now, medium

24:53

price. you look at meeting price today,

24:56

most of them are only slightly above that now. The

24:58

peak of the market was ten years ago there,

25:00

it dropped out. And I'm

25:02

not saying birth isn't a good place to invest whatsoever.

25:05

It obviously depends on your circumstances and

25:07

your strategy. But generally speaking, what's

25:09

the value of making money if you then lose it for the next

25:11

ten years? So I think a lot of people

25:13

need to remember, buyer's agent, whether

25:15

you are one or whether you're using one, first rule,

25:17

they've got make you money. But the second rule is they've

25:19

also got to make sure they don't lose you money. And

25:23

to that point around most

25:25

property investors only own between one and

25:27

two properties is good reason why because

25:30

the point you made then they could have bought in Perth

25:32

ten years ago thinking that there was a great

25:34

time to buy and they've just been lumbered with

25:36

the property which is probably been bleeding.

25:39

cash flow even though capital growth, imagine if they

25:41

put that money elsewhere in a market that actually went

25:43

up thirty percent over the last two years, right? So

25:45

this is this is how buyers'

25:47

agents can help you out. They should be sort

25:49

of, you know, putting you to markets, which

25:52

should be meeting your needs. And and You know, it's either

25:54

gonna be capital growth or yield or both.

25:56

It just depends on your circumstances. But,

25:58

yes, a lot of people have been

26:00

Vodacom has sold into property by

26:02

a Vodacom's buys agent who's recommended

26:05

who weren't really a buys agent. they

26:07

were really a a project marketer or a property

26:10

marketer who was probably getting paid a commission

26:12

to to sell a particular type of asset

26:14

somewhere else. Right? That they are not buyer's

26:16

agent. no, not at all. And and the one

26:19

question I'd say to everyone to ask

26:21

is, how are you getting your money?

26:23

Right. Ask your biocide, and how are you getting money?

26:25

if the answer comes from anything but them,

26:28

it's a warning sign. Now that's not to say people

26:30

can't take, you know, buyers' agent can't take a, you know, a

26:32

bit of a clip from, say, mortgage broker or somewhere

26:34

else. but that's a warning sign because

26:36

you've now got to start thinking about, okay, if they're getting

26:38

money from anywhere else, is there maybe a bit of

26:41

a vested interest line in some

26:43

position other than me. Yeah.

26:45

And you gotta understand that. It's

26:48

yeah. Hundred percent. There's a lot of locations.

26:51

people have been sold into by developers

26:53

or property marketing specialists or

26:56

even some buyers' agents, unfortunately. And,

26:58

yeah, when I say to everyone, Tell me

27:00

why it's gonna grow. You tell me why?

27:02

And then sure. Fair enough.

27:04

But don't just buy somewhere because it looks

27:07

cheap. don't just buy somewhere because you

27:09

think that, you know, it has

27:11

to go up because everywhere else has gone up. And

27:13

I know we've gotta move on to a couple other things,

27:15

but the the last point I'll say on it is two

27:17

years ago, three years ago, you could buy some pretty solid

27:19

properties for three hundred grand. Right? I'm talking houses

27:21

here. Right? Units and townhouses are different story, but

27:23

you could buy pretty solid houses for, you know, maybe three

27:25

hundred grand. now

27:27

those markets now four hundred grand, four fifty.

27:30

Right? The markets that are now the three hundreds

27:32

were the one eighties, the two hundreds, the two fifties.

27:34

And the thing is that people haven't shifted

27:37

their expectations and now they go, oh, I've I've

27:39

got three hundred grand. Where can I go? Oh, I'll go here

27:41

because I can buy it. But Those places weren't

27:43

good buyers when they were two fifty, and yet they've gone

27:45

up. That's fine. But if they

27:47

weren't good buyers when they're two fifty, why would just wanna

27:49

spend more money to get another place that's still not

27:51

good? just because you feel that you have

27:54

to do it. Alright? Maybe

27:55

just safe. Maybe just wait.

27:57

If you wait a year, but

27:58

you buy another places ten times better, not

28:01

gonna regret it. Yeah. It's okay to wait. And

28:03

and Zoe, you know, your property investment journey

28:05

when you lock on sort of talk about

28:07

this current market, which you're gonna go, oh,

28:09

god. There's a lot of reasons why you probably wouldn't

28:11

get involved. But then you on the flip side of that,

28:14

back in this sort of period when prices

28:16

were really rocking people again, I can't get in

28:18

there, why would you get involved in this so volatile. Right?

28:20

So there's always reason why not and why not to get

28:22

a property. So for you,

28:24

like, choosing to become a property investor?

28:27

Was it a wealth creation thing?

28:29

Was it a, you know, I'm planning for

28:31

retirement thing? Was it a just want

28:33

some more bucks in the back pocket type of thing. What's

28:35

the the origin of it? Or

28:37

Well, for me, it was a security thing.

28:39

Okay. Yeah. Because I never

28:41

got to buy I rent in Sydney. I now live

28:43

with my partner, so I don't pay rent anymore, but

28:46

I live in his home. But before

28:48

that I was renting. And for me

28:50

to get into a

28:52

bank wouldn't lend me the money I needed.

28:55

because you're a business because

28:56

I'm a business owner. Yeah. And a

28:58

single mom. And

28:59

it was really hard to get anyone

29:01

to lend me money I needed to get into this

29:03

Sydney market. And so I had

29:05

to think outside the box. Mhmm. You know?

29:07

And that's where you guys really helped

29:10

me because it made me see the possibility.

29:12

But before that, I wouldn't have

29:14

thought to buy outside of Sydney

29:16

or New South Wales. I would have been like,

29:19

I don't know those areas. I don't know

29:21

anything about it. Like, how do I do

29:23

that? But for me, it was kind

29:25

of like, this is a way in and I think, you know,

29:27

the whole thing about the smashed avocado --

29:29

Yeah. -- and young people can't get into the market.

29:32

think that's actually really detrimental

29:35

because it puts the mindset

29:38

into young people to think,

29:40

oh, I'm never gonna get into the market. No.

29:42

You can. You just gotta think a little

29:44

differently.

29:45

Yeah. I I agree with that, and I've

29:47

sort of been quite vocal in this show talking

29:49

about that stuff. I've even had been an insult

29:51

who's the the guy who's behind

29:54

the avocado, smash avocado saying.

29:57

And it's absolutely true. Mhmm. You know?

29:59

And you get being a like, Jen, why

30:01

aren't that young anymore anyway? Right? London.

30:03

That's out of two forty. Yeah. You

30:05

know, so they're not they're not young.

30:08

dead Big snappers. Yeah. Exactly. You

30:10

know, they're just they're the biggest of one they

30:12

are the biggest cohort of of generation

30:14

Australians, but it's entitlement

30:16

saying, well, I can't I can't get

30:18

into the market because it's too expensive. Well,

30:21

maybe you shouldn't buy your first home where

30:24

you grow up with your parents, which is worth five

30:26

million dollars. there's probably a good chance you can't get

30:28

into that much. You gotta think differently and

30:30

and your circumstances is is very

30:32

similar. But being a security. And I

30:34

think you've framed that really well. It's a security thing. Security

30:36

means a whole bunch of things to different people at different

30:39

times in their lives. And security is

30:41

something which is as a family

30:43

orientation, it's security something which can

30:45

be transitional generationally. People

30:47

have done it for many, many years. So thinking

30:49

differently and, you know, getting the value of investing

30:52

in property first. Your respective

30:54

might not be where you want to live. But if it makes

30:56

sense, what Laughlin saying, get stuck.

30:58

You know, so what's a long term plan for you with properties

31:00

is through properties now? We were actually

31:02

just talking about this. So I'm gonna go again. I'm

31:04

gonna go again. Yeah. One's been

31:07

yeah.

31:07

I'm I love it. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. I

31:09

I we bought this one. We haven't even

31:12

finished we haven't settled hundred percent yet. Well,

31:14

in October, we settled. Okay. I settled. but

31:16

it's a team effort.

31:17

So It is a team. It's a team

31:20

effort.

31:21

You know, all the work comes from

31:22

-- Should we hear -- blame him. Thanks. Exactly.

31:24

If if everything works out, you say you've done a good

31:27

job. Yeah. If if it's everything's gone on blame you,

31:29

it's That's the point of thing. that

31:32

we're talking about, you know, that this this sort of notion

31:34

of security, is the mechanism, you

31:36

know, that the product of doing this really well

31:38

is security. Mhmm. and

31:40

security gives you choice often, and that's what

31:42

they'll go, well, yeah, wanna retire and all this sort

31:44

stuff. Let's talk about the assets

31:47

themselves. So one property that's

31:49

sort of in this period between exchange of sentiment

31:51

right now. What what's the first property in

31:53

Texas? My first

31:54

one was in a

31:56

place called Cresmeade -- Yes. -- which is

31:58

the Logan area. I kind of I

32:00

got that with the help of my mortgage

32:03

broker. Yeah. It was a three

32:05

bed of, you know, double brick

32:07

six hundred square meters old

32:10

inside, like it's sort of nice it's

32:12

a kind of pink kitchen. Oh, nice. picture

32:15

that -- Mhmm. -- mobiles. But

32:18

I've never done a thing to it. But yeah.

32:21

So that was my first buy.

32:23

And then

32:24

How much do you pay?

32:25

Two eighty nine.

32:26

Okay. And you did you did you did you did you broke it at two

32:28

eighty nine? And what what are you renting that out for now,

32:30

Dina? Three seventy. Okay. three

32:32

seventy per week. Yeah. And did you go in sort

32:34

of eighty percent? Yeah. Twenty percent?

32:37

Yeah. On a

32:37

Oh, well, that was my first place and I had

32:40

a hundred thousand deposit.

32:42

Oh, it's huge. Yeah. Plug the whole

32:45

hundred into it? Don't

32:47

know. Yeah. I did. Well, Yeah.

32:49

No worries. They had really low -- Yeah. -- kelby

32:51

hour, low and kelby hour. Yep. Okay.

32:53

Would you do the same again now? don't

32:56

think I could save underground.

32:57

That's why I'm doing this. I'll

32:59

use the equity. Thanks. don't wanna have to do that

33:01

again. Okay. It was I mean, you know, it was doable,

33:03

and was in a position where I could. And

33:05

then and I came into a little

33:07

bit of money. Not much. I think I came into

33:10

twenty grand from my grandmother that helped.

33:12

Sweet. That kind of pushed me over the line and I sold

33:14

her Grand piano. So

33:17

that gave me I think that was an

33:18

extra So you're compromising your creative

33:21

capabilities for security. Is that

33:23

a good trade off? What

33:24

do you mean? How am I advising it?

33:26

Given up your given up your piano. Oh,

33:29

nice. Yeah.

33:31

Well, these days, I didn't have room pretty much studio.

33:34

It was too big. There you go. So it's a keyboard

33:36

these days, and you can get really good keyboards

33:38

that

33:38

sound the same thing. Yeah. Okay. So Chris,

33:40

meet them all. What's the so the second property,

33:42

which is when you sort of ran into Laughlin?

33:45

Then listen to this. Heard Laughlin.

33:48

Spoke to him, I really drilled him in Buddy's

33:50

education because I wanted to understand, you

33:53

know, what

33:54

was he's not. Has he got enough degrees for you?

33:56

Yeah. I think he does.

33:58

And

33:59

yeah, because I'm an avid

34:02

listener and I do my own research, I sort of

34:04

we we

34:05

threw around a few areas

34:07

together and knuckled

34:09

down on Boingo.

34:11

Boingo. Yeah. Where they build the

34:14

bush masters. Yeah. So they do.

34:16

Yeah. Yeah.

34:16

And I actually haven't seen that properly, haven't

34:18

been there.

34:19

And when I say a great advertisement. A great

34:21

advertisement fit. You don't even need to visit them.

34:23

And -- No. -- you've already pulled equity out of

34:25

it. Yep. Already after a year.

34:27

Yeah. So would you would you buy? house?

34:29

Same thing. Yeah. Free beta

34:31

brick. I think that was I can't remember

34:33

what the square meter on that, but it's close

34:35

similar similar

34:36

property. six seven hundred. Yeah.

34:38

me square, I'd say. How much did you pay?

34:41

I think it was three seventy nine. Three. So

34:43

did you draw the equity out of Do you

34:45

have my own Chris me one into it?

34:47

Okay. You're you're on your store. Yes.

34:51

My update, I don't. Oh, completely

34:53

missed it, don't. By the way.

34:55

Yeah. I I pulled

34:57

the money out of that one. Okay.

34:59

That took a while to gain momentum.

35:02

That sat that plateaued for about five

35:04

years.

35:04

Yeah. And I guess you know what? probably really

35:06

good one to touch on because you bought that in Brisbane.

35:08

Right? Mhmm. Brisbane between twenty

35:10

ten and twenty twenty or twenty

35:12

eleven, twenty eleven, It was I can

35:14

tell you the number. It was twenty two percent over

35:17

ten years. Okay. Yeah. And because I did

35:19

this for something. Absolute growth. Yeah.

35:21

Absolute growth. There was twenty two percent over that

35:23

period. And it's a really good point

35:25

to stop on for a sec because I think it

35:27

really goes to understanding why markets are gonna

35:29

move. And Brisbane had a lot of indications

35:32

that it would. and a lot people bought into

35:34

the market just like Zoey. I mean, I even bought

35:36

in that, right, at one point. And I had a property

35:38

that didn't do too much over a little period.

35:40

And realistically, it's

35:42

just that great example of you've really got

35:45

to knuckle down and drill down on

35:47

why it's gonna grow and really be sure

35:49

of that because a lot of people, you know, if

35:51

you were say you were thirty and you

35:53

bought in there, you're now forty and

35:55

you've only had twenty percent growth. And

35:57

that's almost all that's I don't wanna be

35:59

a bit dramatic, but that's almost a lifetime of growth

36:02

that's wasted decade. Absolutely. And

36:04

a lot of people felt that. And yeah, it's

36:06

caught up now. That's fine. But imagine if you bought,

36:08

kinda like what we did with with UZO, you

36:10

bought a year or two years later,

36:12

you'd you'd bought effectively, you you pull equity.

36:15

in that ten years, you could have bought four or

36:17

five or six, or to be honest, because that

36:19

was a really great time period for borrowing as

36:21

well. You you could have built an entire

36:23

property empire in that time, but but

36:25

you didn't. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

36:28

Yeah. Well, not

36:28

you. So I wanna say you didn't. I mean No. take

36:31

Generally speaking. colloquially. Yeah.

36:33

Yeah. Yeah.

36:34

That's okay. Yeah. But, no,

36:36

I I think that's spot on. And for

36:38

me, I was like,

36:40

well, I can do this myself because,

36:43

you know, I can look into I

36:46

mean, your website alone gives you that

36:48

whole you can plug in a suburb.

36:50

Oh, yeah. Get your more data you can

36:52

focus together. Yeah. Yeah. So I can do

36:54

that. But there's so many intricacies

36:56

to it that really someone like

36:59

me, you need time, you need knowledge, you need the

37:01

relationships with -- Yeah. -- with

37:03

you know, property

37:04

people. Yeah. That

37:07

that All those

37:08

people out there that are in property

37:10

and you

37:12

know, when we're talking about

37:16

my next property that I've just

37:18

got, which is in regional, Queensland.

37:20

Mhmm. I wouldn't have

37:23

picked that area. I wouldn't have known,

37:25

oh, that's a great area to buy in.

37:27

It's kind of a new market that's I think

37:29

You're gonna tell us what it is. You're cagey on it. And

37:31

III saw that. I saw that. Yeah. I saw

37:34

that. Yeah.

37:36

I'm an open book that I'm no.

37:38

I'm gonna keep, like, I've given you a piece

37:40

of info already.

37:40

Okay. Okay. Okay. That one under wraps. But

37:43

oh, look. I wouldn't necessarily say it was a new

37:45

my per se. Just so, okay. We don't think we're buying

37:47

someone that had like twenty thousand people. It certainly

37:49

wasn't. It's No. But I think it really probably

37:51

goes to the the whole idea that if you're

37:53

not in this doing it every day. I'm like, whether that's

37:55

because you you work in property or you might

37:57

have the time because you're retired from something

37:59

else or you just don't sleep, if you're not

38:01

researching and investigating and understanding all

38:03

these places, you could miss out and

38:06

realistically not to jump the governor. But, you

38:08

know, we bought this for just over four hundred thousand

38:10

for you. it's a really great buyer. And think what

38:12

do we work at is probably thirty or forty k undervalue

38:14

on this one based on the area. Mhmm. And

38:16

it was it was I think it was an off market, wasn't

38:19

it? Yeah. It was off market and we got a good deal on

38:21

that because we were able to meet the vendors

38:23

requirements that wasn't just price. But

38:25

if you know in it, you might not necessarily

38:28

look here. And this is a big this is a big place like it's got

38:30

hundreds of thousands of people. But

38:33

again, you you've really got to have your finger on the

38:35

pulse because otherwise, if you just bring up Google Maps Australia.

38:38

There's a lot of choice. So there's a lot

38:40

of choice. Yeah. So you refinanced or

38:43

you pulled equity out of the Bennego property

38:45

to

38:45

I pulled out Okay. -- I pulled out a boat,

38:47

actually. Okay. So, ultimately,

38:51

my one in Logan has is

38:53

performing

38:54

for me. It's it's giving me cash. It's

38:56

a bit of a cash cow now. Yeah. But it took

38:58

it took time to time. Yeah. But it's still

39:00

being a valuable property. But yeah,

39:02

not it's not a dim before my my Bennego

39:04

one -- Mhmm. -- gained really,

39:06

really quickly. And I was like, oh, this is

39:08

This house And and you bought

39:10

that or technically, you bought that at a hundred and

39:12

five percent because you pulled equity to do that. But

39:15

in terms of the physical loan against that

39:17

asset, it was it was ninety percent. So, you

39:19

know, for you to then be able to go and pull equity

39:21

out of that, it had a lot of growth that came

39:23

out of it -- Mhmm. -- to bring you down to eighty and

39:26

then get you below eighty so that you went and hit

39:28

with with LMI for a second. Exactly. Yeah.

39:30

What time valuations you get on the Bennington property

39:32

at the point of refinance?

39:35

sixty or something. I think Yeah. I think I think we

39:37

we did the math. It went up about twenty five

39:39

percent, thirty percent in about nine

39:42

months. Oh, sorry. Right. And do you think

39:44

that you brought it well? Well, absolutely. Because,

39:47

like, I'm the first, obviously, blow my own trumpet

39:49

if if, you know, where -- Oh, well. -- if I'm

39:51

doing well. But Got one. But realistically,

39:54

the market itself didn't move

39:56

that much in the time period between

39:58

it. So the only thing that it comes back down

40:00

to is One, we did buy incredibly

40:03

well, and two, we bought with the

40:05

right circumstances around it. So

40:07

it meant that while you know, effectively,

40:09

we outperformed the market on that. So

40:12

everywhere did well. Right? Like, no longer sugarcoat it. A

40:14

lot of everywhere did well, Bennego did well, a lot of other

40:16

places did But when you

40:18

outperform the market and to use a financial

40:20

term, that's the alpha. Right? The alpha is what

40:22

you can't really chalk up to anything else other

40:25

than the individual performance of

40:27

investment manager or something like that. So,

40:29

realistically, it means we may now file

40:31

probably between eight and ten percent, which

40:33

is fantastic. Right? That's actually really, really

40:35

good long term performance to have as,

40:38

you know, as a buyer's agent. Right? I might not

40:40

technically be an investment manager like share

40:42

market, but -- Mhmm. -- that's a way that I like to look

40:44

at myself. Well, it's tech it sounds

40:46

like textbook stuff right, you know, and and the idea

40:48

is that probably use a buyer's agent, you can

40:51

you can subscribe into that and get it right,

40:53

more than you get it wrong, and stories

40:55

like that are great. So

40:56

you settle in a week or so's time

40:58

on on this regional Queensland play

41:01

through with over with over

41:03

a couple of hundred thousand people going Yeah.

41:06

Just going to dig around. Yeah. Exactly

41:08

right. Good luck. Do they do they sort of

41:10

have a lot of Bundaberg rum around that area.

41:12

You know what? They actually

41:14

don't. Well, actually, no. You know what? They

41:16

probably do. Yeah. But -- Right.

41:18

-- it's not distilled down later.

41:22

Not for example. I was gonna say. Absolutely.

41:24

There's gonna be more ideas. that's

41:27

really cool. So let's go quick

41:29

break because I wanna know what's next has been like goal

41:31

setting for you. Stay with zero one back in a

41:33

moment.

41:36

Welcome back to Phil Tarrant

41:38

host of this Farfetch show with Laughlin Biedler

41:40

and one of his clients have property investor,

41:43

Zoe Manuel Manuel. In Manuel.

41:45

Manuel. Yeah. Manuel. So what's next?

41:47

Because this is pretty important, you know,

41:49

sort of creating pathway for

41:51

your proper investment journey, sounds like you're

41:53

not stopping? No. You sort

41:55

of going forward. So, you know, goal setting and

41:57

stuff rather than talking about generally, you know, it'd

41:59

be good to talk about in the context of

42:02

of using your journey. And the outcome

42:04

you want is security -- Yeah. -- whatever that and

42:06

no doubt this security equation

42:09

for you will change over time. security

42:11

always changes as your life changes. One of those

42:13

things, probably investment being enabled

42:15

at a supporting positive change. And

42:17

for you and how you frame security school. Mhmm.

42:19

So there's more to come. How how you're going about sort

42:21

of setting goals around the future? Is

42:23

there an end point? Is there an end amount

42:26

of money that you wanna make through properly? Yeah.

42:28

No. I haven't thought about it

42:30

to that detail, but there is an end

42:32

point because, you know, I'm

42:34

I'm not gonna give you my exact age. because

42:36

I'm a I'm a lady, but

42:39

I am in my late forties. Right? And

42:42

I don't wanna be working. passed

42:45

past sixty five, you know. And so

42:48

for me, I'm thinking about my retirement.

42:50

I'm thinking about how can I have a comfortable you

42:52

know, in last twenty years of my life

42:55

or whatever. So I think

42:57

four to five properties maybe. Mhmm. We

42:59

were talking about potentially then looking

43:01

at a commercial properly after that.

43:03

It all depends on my serviceability, obviously.

43:06

So I'm really concentrating now

43:08

my focus is on building my business and

43:11

making it really successful and making

43:13

my income because that's kinda key.

43:15

If you can't get the serviceability, then

43:18

you can't keep going. So that's that's

43:20

the challenge for the investor, especially if

43:22

you wanna buy more. But yeah,

43:25

I sort of see I can see the value

43:27

in keeping going and

43:29

they do say you want at least four, don't

43:32

they? Is that is that the key? Or

43:33

So it depends. I'd I'd probably hand it over

43:35

lock them. Yeah. mean, look, I think I think probably with

43:37

your circumstances for you,

43:40

we've known that we've wanted to grow the portfolio. We

43:42

obviously have a bit of a method regardless

43:44

of the endpoint you want to get to. We've got a bit of a method

43:46

on how to get you moving along that path. And

43:48

then just the scale of it is what what

43:50

tends to vary. but I think it's really

43:53

good point for a lot of people out there. You

43:55

don't necessarily know, you know, your passive

43:57

income type goal you wanna achieve. And that's so

43:59

k. And as we sort of buy another one, we

44:01

sort of relook at where we're at. We buy another one.

44:04

We look at where we're at. And it's very

44:06

iterative. And I think that that's good

44:08

for you because We know that that we

44:10

know that method and approach we're doing.

44:12

We stop smell the roses. Alright. We're not

44:14

there yet. Let's

44:15

go again. Alright. Cool. We're now sort of at, say,

44:17

that really foundational point you got safety, that

44:19

security, what do we do now to bump it

44:21

up? So for you, you know, as your

44:23

your business matures, as your portfolio matures,

44:26

as you know, your life expenses

44:29

change and things like that. Like as you said, you know,

44:31

your single mom, as your daughter becomes more self

44:33

sufficient, things like that. get a work at a mattress

44:35

question. It's, you

44:37

know, it's one of those things that, you know, you'll really come

44:39

in and be able to go, alright, my number's fifty

44:41

k. My number's eighty k. It's a hundred. It's a hundred

44:43

and twenty. it's a million. Right? Whatever it is.

44:45

And and it's that really iterative process, which

44:48

I think a lot of people pressure themselves

44:50

to go I mean, hundred k is obviously

44:52

the magic number everyone throws around. Right? But but

44:54

everyone goes, I need this. I need that. I need that.

44:56

And they're thirty, you know, twenty, thirty, forty years

44:58

away from retirement. and a plan's great.

45:00

And I love a plan. But if you don't know,

45:02

you don't need to stress yourself out either.

45:05

You can just follow the ball and get that.

45:06

Well, that's how I'm kind of going with it.

45:09

To me, it's like, I know there's an in goal.

45:11

I don't know exactly what those figures

45:13

are because it's it's such an

45:15

unknowable

45:16

anyway. Yeah. I I completely agree with that and

45:18

you you can't overcook it because people get obsessed

45:20

by it all and they typically make bad

45:22

decisions as a result of it because they think

45:24

they're gonna hurry up. You know, I'm a huge

45:27

proponent of strategic patience, you know.

45:29

And it's mate, if you're just doing the right stuff, you gotta

45:31

let time do its things. Right. Just let

45:33

it let happen and don't obsess

45:35

yourself too much about what's going on in the market

45:37

right now and all my properties gone back by a

45:39

little bit and like who cares? Exactly. you know,

45:41

it's gonna go up and down, isn't it? It's gonna

45:44

go up and down. You just gotta gotta take

45:46

it easy, you know. And it's important

45:48

that you you're sounding it out and you're chatting

45:50

to people. Right? Are you still using the same mortgage broker?

45:52

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. No. He's great. We've got a

45:54

great relationship. And I have to say, I think,

45:57

for me having a good team is crucial

45:59

because I've only got so much

46:01

knowledge about these things. And if you've got people

46:03

around you that know what they're doing, you just you just

46:05

And that you want them acting acting for

46:07

you. Right? Yeah. And, you know, I know you're

46:09

sort of subscribing to this Laughlin, the

46:11

idea of people get there's a lot

46:14

of vanity around how many properties you have. And I'll tell

46:16

you, when you have a lot of properties, it's just to

46:18

be headache. Sure. You know, be be careful

46:20

what you wish for. So you're better off having,

46:22

you know, a not a fact portfolio,

46:24

a bit of fit portfolio -- Yeah. -- and often

46:27

less properties. that get you the same result

46:29

is better than more properties that get you the same

46:31

result. Hundred percent

46:32

of that. Absolutely. Not a fat

46:34

portfolio,

46:35

but a fat I like I just make that

46:37

up on the floor. That's

46:39

a quote. Yeah. You can have that Put that

46:41

on your website. That was probably

46:43

everyone's gonna be a fat Not

46:47

fat feet. Not fat feet. I love

46:49

that, man. We can team up with, like, a PT.

46:51

There you go. Firm or something and There you go.

46:54

Absolutely. Same logic. It's my

46:56

major and personal training. Something like that.

46:59

It's a brainstorming question. Yes.

47:02

So let's just more. Less

47:03

is absolutely. And I mean, there are a lot of different

47:05

ways to skin a cat. Right? There is a lot of

47:07

different ways to skin a cat. And I think what people

47:09

need to understand though is that you've there

47:12

is a way to build a portfolio these days. Right? The

47:14

goal of the days, you can just negatively gear. Banks just

47:16

give money money money money money. There is a way that

47:18

you gotta build it out these days to sort of get you

47:20

up there. And and again, as I said before, when we're

47:22

talking about usability, there's a method,

47:24

and then it's just the scale of that that varies. Right?

47:26

So, you know, at one stage, you might do three.

47:29

properties of a certain type for one person, but

47:31

for another, if they're trying to go bigger, they might

47:33

need five of that type, right, or whatever

47:35

it is. So I think that it's it's

47:37

it's important for people to then remember that

47:40

the journey is gonna change. Right? You might start,

47:42

you build, you build, you build, you could end up with

47:44

ten properties. but then you

47:47

might then downsize. Right? And it's not about

47:49

going, I only wanna buy two properties now and

47:51

that's gonna be it for life because

47:53

red hot tip unless you're only looking for,

47:55

you know, maybe five or ten k passive income.

47:58

Two properties isn't probably gonna get you very far.

47:59

Or you're

48:01

gonna be so negatively geared, you're gonna buy one

48:03

probably every ten years, which also isn't really sort

48:05

of what you want to do. So So yeah.

48:08

It's about understanding that the stages of

48:10

a portfolio and, you

48:12

know, for most people, you'll buy, you'll buy, you'll buy,

48:14

you'll get up there, you'll then sell a bit, you might buy

48:16

some more. And then eventually, you'll you'll downsize

48:18

it. Right? You're moving that fat to that fit.

48:21

and

48:22

that's that's sort of the way it it it kind

48:24

of works. Right? You don't need to you don't need to

48:26

build Rome in one day. You don't need to buy your first

48:28

two properties and then you're only two properties. it

48:31

changes and it develops. And

48:33

for a lot of people, there's outside

48:35

factors. Right? Government regulation personal

48:37

circumstances financial issues. Right?

48:39

There's so many things that then impacted as well.

48:41

So don't try and run your marathon

48:44

with

48:44

your first property or your or two properties.

48:46

sage of voice from the main

48:48

source. is it? Good. You

48:51

seem happy? Yeah. No. I'm very happy. Yeah.

48:53

We'll we'll do a a real estate supposed

48:55

session at some point when you become less happy coming

48:58

over to you. Look at my heart.

49:00

Obviously, that'll never happen. Well,

49:03

you know us now. So Yeah. Thank you for having

49:05

me. Looks like the the we is

49:07

on a good journey together and you

49:10

know,

49:10

you I think you've made a very smart decision by

49:12

trying not do it yourself. You know, you talk about teams

49:14

and and and and your teams sort of be right for you

49:16

as well. Yeah. you got to find find the right people

49:18

to work with and, you know, there seems to be a good

49:20

chemistry unit since we're working out. So

49:22

once you get this one cracked and and go again, you'll have

49:24

to come back on and let us know what's going on. too. That'd

49:27

be good. We wanna get more

49:29

people into the show. Oh, really? Female people

49:32

said even not female. about that. Yeah.

49:34

Female. We want more girls on this show, my ladies

49:36

and gentlemen. Ladies on the show.

49:39

Yeah. And and we we we love to

49:41

tell those stories because in many

49:43

ways that heartbeat the property best in Australia.

49:45

But for

49:46

some reason, we always end up with with

49:48

guys on the show. So if you tuning into this,

49:51

please get in touch with us coming up chat with We wanna

49:53

get more ladies on the show. Absolutely. I mean, it's pretty

49:55

easy, and it's a fun show. And you

49:57

know what? You I mean, we haven't really set it. And I

49:59

don't know if I'll be able to set it to you either, but you

50:01

know, Europe maybe

50:03

trailblades is is a bit strong. But but,

50:05

you know, you Here we go. Females are really underrepresented

50:08

in finance and investment and things like that. And

50:10

It is a really big problem and education is

50:13

really helpful to to push that along and obviously

50:15

using professionals can help with that too. But

50:17

realistically, not only are you in the

50:19

top four percent of property investors, but as a

50:21

female, I think that that's even more impressive. So

50:24

I think that, you know, for a lot of people, you could

50:26

be seen as just, you know, somebody

50:28

to look up to. Yeah. There you go. Well, thank you.

50:30

Just copies out. She knows how she goes. Absolutely.

50:32

But I'm dead. Denver. Absolutely serious. get

50:34

in touch, please, all ladies out there coming

50:37

over chat with us. We like if you can come in,

50:39

you know, singular together, however

50:41

you wanna do it, I'm I'm happy to do a panel of

50:43

their smart prop investors. I really do enjoy

50:45

it. Get in touch with the team editor at smart prop investment

50:48

dot com. New Jersey. Thanks for coming Thank you, family. So in

50:50

touch, Liz, how you got it? Sounds like on the right pathway,

50:52

Laughlin. Thanks for the introduction as well. It's always

50:54

good to to get investors on Avianca.

50:57

It's a good episode. enjoy

50:59

the everyone member at smart fund investment dot com that

51:01

are you editor at smart fund investment dot com that you would

51:03

be picked up by Grace,

51:06

our editor in proper investment and property

51:08

here at Momentum and she's also

51:10

championing a lot more ladies on the show. So

51:12

we're expecting that email box to blow up with

51:14

interest to come and have a chat with us. Social

51:17

media smart property hedges where you'll find us. We'll

51:19

see you next time until then. Bye bye. The information featured

51:21

in this podcast is general in nature and does

51:23

not take into consideration your financial situation

51:25

or individual needs and should not be relied upon

51:27

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51:30

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51:32

consult a licensed professional who can advise whether

51:34

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51:36

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