0:05

You hear that? That's

0:13

the awkward silence of a family dinner after

0:15

you just got caught vaping. Most

0:19

vapes contain high levels of nicotine and

0:22

disappointment. Brought

0:25

to you by The Real Cost and the FDA. This

0:29

week in PlayStation, we're talking about

0:31

The Last of Us Part Two,

0:33

remastered's new mode, no return and

0:35

interviewing the director. We'll have all

0:37

this and more because this is

0:39

PSI Love You XOXO. Welcome

1:03

to the show, everybody. That's

1:05

blessing. I'm Greg and you can

1:07

get this show on patreon.com/kind of

1:09

funny. There you can watch us record it

1:11

live. Usually get an ad

1:14

free and get dozens of monthly

1:16

exclusive episodes only on patreon.com/kind of

1:18

funny. If you have no bucks

1:20

to toss our way, no big deal. Support

1:22

us on the Epic Games Store, Fortnite, Rocket

1:24

League or Fall Guys with the creator code

1:27

kind of funny. You can get PSI Love

1:29

You XOXO for free with ads and without

1:31

the exclusive content on youtube.com/kind of funny

1:33

games and podcast services around

1:36

the globe each and every Friday. Thank

1:38

you to our patreon producers, Jackson Hampton,

1:41

Delaney Twining. Today we're brought to you

1:43

by Shady Rays. Let's start

1:45

with the PSN message from you. Hi, bless. Hi,

1:47

Greg. How you doing? All

1:50

right. How are you doing? Great. We are

1:52

recording out of order. We've already

1:54

recorded the interview. On top of that, we're recording this

1:56

on a Friday. You're seeing it on a Tuesday unless

1:58

we have to up the embargo. then shhh don't

2:00

tell anybody. So

2:03

it's a weird one. GTA 6 huh? I'll tell you what,

2:05

that GTA 6. That trailer. I can't

2:07

believe it was, they just called it Vice City. With

2:09

the capital V in the I. GTA V,

2:12

capital V I. Yeah, think about that. Even

2:14

while we're recording it. Days before the big is

2:16

gonna happen. Hours after the GTA trailer came out.

2:18

If I haven't choked on a throat lozenge, that

2:21

is up on youtube.com/kindoffunnygames. You can go watch us

2:23

live react to that, and then do the kind

2:25

of funny games daily immediately following, where we do

2:27

a little post show run down. You're

2:30

thinking that we're gonna keep that plan right? I'm

2:33

saying that's the plan. We need to discuss it. Bear and I

2:35

were talking, we need to discuss it. I

2:37

think a lot can change between where we're recording right

2:39

now. No one right now is watching PS I love

2:41

you, listening to PS I love you, they pull over

2:43

to the side of the road, like wait where's that

2:45

games daily? You know what I mean? Where's the GTA

2:47

6 coverage? They know it's there, that

2:49

happened for sure, unless this company went out of business. Yeah. When

2:52

Rockstar goes out, like what if they change it? Like

2:54

ah man, we made a mistake. We're just hilarious though.

2:56

The trailer's not ready, we forgot to edit it. Oh

2:58

shit. Yeah, now we're just like ah man, well. We

3:02

of course today got to

3:04

go play Last of Us Part II Remastered, no

3:07

return. But before we do that,

3:09

we always start the show with what is and forever will

3:12

be the PSN message. This one comes from Cozy Bear. Cozy

3:14

Bear writes in, on

3:17

point, on topic, in the same Last of

3:19

Us ballpark,

3:22

which I appreciate, it says, what would you

3:24

want to see out of a single player only

3:26

expand alone the Last of Us game? That would

3:28

serve as a bridge between the Last of

3:30

Us Part II and the inevitable Last of Us

3:33

Part III. So I assume we're

3:35

thinking a little bit like Left Behind. Not exactly,

3:37

but a little bit like it, right? Where we're

3:39

getting a smaller, a Miles Morales type experience. Yeah,

3:41

I was gonna say, fate alone tells you, it

3:43

says like Miles Morales even more so to me.

3:45

Sure. Which makes this interesting because I think

3:49

this all would depend on what is the Last of Us Part

3:51

III. I know, right? That's what makes it so hard. Yeah, because

3:53

Last of Us Part III, I imagine you're gonna get more Ellie.

3:55

Maybe we play more as Ellie. Maybe you play more as Lev

3:58

or Abby, right? The tough thing

4:00

is I would love an expand alone that is hey

4:02

This is a last of the game where it is

4:05

a eight hour story and you're playing as love from

4:07

beginning to end Unless you're saving that for

4:09

last of this three, then it's like okay. Well, then what do you do

4:11

for? expand alone my

4:16

Again, this is an impossible question to answer without

4:18

talking about what you think last of us part

4:20

three I Think last

4:22

of us part three and this is me

4:24

guessing based on nothing is going

4:26

to see a significant time

4:28

jump Where I think we met Ellie

4:31

as a teen right a tween We

4:34

then came back and played more as her

4:36

as an adult a young adult right entering

4:38

into the new Normal of being an

4:40

adult. I think we're gonna come back and she is going

4:42

to be more of like Joel's age install

4:47

And that's me just I'm just I right now I guess I'm

4:49

just spitballing what last of part three is and I don't think

4:51

we play as her I think we play as a new character

4:53

that's entering the fray and yada yada yada So

4:56

what I would think I would want from an expand

4:58

alone would be Some

5:01

kind of bridge between it that is

5:03

I Of course want

5:05

to know what Ellie did after last for the sholastos part

5:07

two We watch her, you know go

5:09

through she can't strum because she got no finger Then she

5:11

we just see her out the window walking into the woods,

5:14

right? I want to know what that was

5:16

like after that So I think if

5:18

we got some of that and then at the end

5:21

it turned out that it was like a flashback She

5:23

was having or even if throughout we were getting little

5:25

flashbacks or her as an older woman Like, you know

5:27

looking back and remembering that for whatever reason I think

5:30

that could be interesting if it was kind of like

5:32

alright, so the house she leaves the house Here's

5:35

you know her trying to go

5:37

back to Dina and Dina thrown around. Here's her moving

5:39

to a different city Here's a bunch of you know

5:42

run ins with other bad people Here's our morning Joel

5:44

and then wherever we're building to then we're

5:46

in the new community. We're meeting the new person She is a

5:48

hermit living on you know in the middle of nowhere on her

5:50

own like That could be a my as

5:52

we talk about the possibilities for an older Abby, right?

5:54

Like my imagination goes well in terms of what you

5:57

can do or sorry older Abby would be older too

5:59

technically. Yeah did

8:00

that in the TV show. Yeah. I love like a bunch

8:02

of different, you know, versions of what a Billstown kind of

8:04

story could be in video games. I think that'd be really

8:06

cool. It's an interesting one for you.

8:08

Not what you were saying. It was boring as

8:10

shit. But what I'm finding on the internet right

8:12

now, right? Because I JJ, of course, Jesse, I

8:14

always forgot that Jesse was the father. They named

8:16

it screen rants got an article over here, right?

8:19

And it's, you know, whatever. It's from Alexandra,

8:23

uh, Sokka, L'Orio, uh, published 2020,

8:25

July 1st. Uh, it's about who's

8:28

the father. Well, I think it's just like, if

8:30

you I mean, it's, it's Jesse. We knew that. I think

8:32

it was maybe a few like, you know, to not spoil

8:34

something, a headline when the game was brand new, but it's

8:36

interesting. JJ's full name was never revealed

8:38

by the end of the last of us

8:40

part two and the game's creative director Neil

8:42

Druckmann has revealed on Twitter. The second J

8:44

does not stand for junior fan

8:46

theories have suggested it's attributed to Jesse and Joel,

8:49

both of whom died over the course of the game. It's

8:51

understandable. Ellie would want to honor Joel, who was very

8:54

much a father figure to her. Uh, but it may

8:56

be more confusing why they choose to pay it to

8:58

Jesse, who, oh, then they're getting there. Like acting like

9:00

this is a big reveal, but Jesse's the dad. I

9:02

apologize for that. Oh, but that's interesting

9:04

that I, I never thought too much about it.

9:06

I always thought it was just Jesse and I don't know what the second

9:08

J was for, but not to try to say Jesse

9:11

James. Yeah. Jesse

9:13

Joel. Where, uh, did it,

9:16

had Ellie come around on like kind of forgiving Joel

9:18

by that she was working on it. Remember that was

9:20

ripped away from her. I

9:22

mean, there's definitely baggage there, but I

9:25

think you can still, I mean, I

9:27

think it's weird to name a kid initials. Is that what we're

9:29

doing now? Your name's JJ. I mean, your son is BJ, isn't

9:31

he? Benjamin James. Okay. Well,

9:33

that's fair. So I mean, I,

9:36

well, I also think it's the, what's the

9:38

thing is bear. You probably know that Tchaikovsky's

9:40

gun where like there's a gun

9:42

in a, there's a gun

9:44

introduced in the first act of a play. It must be

9:46

shot in the second act of the play. And I

9:48

think it's the same for babies. I think there's

9:51

a baby introduced in one film or a game

9:53

or whatever. And the next

9:58

installment that baby's a character that baby. He's now grown

10:00

and walk in and say in words. Yeah, fair enough

10:03

I like what you're pitching because I had the

10:05

old Ellie I can envision that yeah And then

10:07

I like what you're spitting here hmm that could even

10:09

be the end right just knock on the door That'd

10:12

be such a great way. We never show the bait

10:15

of the man who is no longer a baby But

10:18

just Ellie open the door we get it

10:20

from behind He goes mom question mark and

10:22

that'd be in directed by doesn't matter story

10:24

idea by Greg Miller And

10:27

blessing what I feel like my name should be

10:29

first gonna be associated bless Collaborate

10:35

nigga. They're here. We're making fun of where

10:37

I want equal credit. Can I get credit

10:39

as well just for being here? You

10:42

can co-direct it with Neil sick.

10:44

All right. I feel like we should be co-directed with

10:46

me I don't want that much pressure We

10:50

just did the store a lot of no, we just did the story Yeah,

10:52

but I feel like we get credit and a little bit of money or

10:55

we sue directors get all the love though Like

10:57

bears gonna get all the fame and all that I deserve

10:59

he directs this show. He does a great job I mean

11:01

he does but like we came up with the whole I

11:03

guess I guess this is Hollywood right that's not I would

11:05

work. That's the process baby showbiz unless you're writing and directing

11:08

cool. I Could never

11:10

time for topic of the show Two

11:14

weeks in a row he's missed you know I mean My pre-programmed

11:17

Todd's button is on the scene where I can bring Janet up

11:23

So I didn't have this one ready to go and

11:25

the last time I'm a thing. Yeah, it's holding us

11:28

back Yeah, and the last time is I might

11:30

have not have been in the room when topic of the show

11:32

started I think that is what happened the internet was crapping out.

11:34

Yeah So it's on your permanent record

11:37

Ladies and gentlemen, you already know the last of

11:39

us part two remastered is real You already know

11:41

there's a new mode called no return. Of course

11:44

the game comes out January 19th 2024

11:48

in case you don't remember what no return is

11:50

I'm gonna read a couple paragraphs from PlayStation blog to

11:52

walk you in because blessing and I just came back

11:54

from playing many hours Of it today. We did 9

11:56

o'clock call time that was early. It was really early.

11:58

It actually isn't that early For normal people, yeah,

12:01

there's not a clock is very regular, but yeah,

12:03

I haven't had coffee until I got there Yeah, I had the

12:05

coffee. I got a little cupcake The

12:11

last of us part two remastered is designed

12:13

to let you dig deeper into both its

12:15

development and mechanics chief among These is a

12:17

brand new mode called no return a rogue

12:20

like survival mode designed to let players prove

12:22

their mettle in Randomized encounters and experience last

12:24

it was part two's combat in a fresh

12:26

experience The mode includes a host of

12:28

playable characters to choose from some playable for the first

12:31

time in the last of us franchise Who

12:33

each come with their own traits to suit different

12:35

play styles? Players will chart their

12:38

own course on each run choosing between various

12:40

stealth and combat encounters that will pit you

12:42

against a range of enemy With

12:44

any twists that can add new

12:47

unexpected factors to any given encounter

12:50

Blessing Craig, like I said, we played from 9

12:52

o'clock to noon. He did a lot of playing of this game. Yeah,

12:54

I Love it. Damn.

12:58

Okay. I don't want to be crazy about it

13:00

You know what I mean? But it is that idea of like you

13:02

get on the sticks and like alright last of part two

13:04

is an awesome game to play I think

13:07

so much of the story I think so much characters and the way

13:09

the nominee getting back in here I was like, oh, yeah. Okay, this

13:11

is actually just fun to do But

13:13

then on top of that, you know at one point

13:15

when we finished we unlock the whole bunch of stuff

13:17

and use one Man, it's got this game's got systems

13:19

on systems on systems Like I go through my notes

13:21

and yeah It's one of my notes is just so

13:23

many dang systems because there's so much going on in

13:25

this mode and to your point too Yeah, like

13:27

last was just fun to play like as I was playing this

13:30

and as I was picking down notes on it One

13:32

of the first things that came to mind I like I wrote down

13:34

a series of hot takes I got three hot

13:36

takes in a row lay mommy. My first hot take is that

13:40

Last was a game player moved from the

13:42

story removed from cinematics removed from like, you

13:44

know All the flair and stuff that you

13:46

attach to a naughty dog game lots of

13:48

gameplay is better than most action games in

13:50

my opinion Like it is a very fun

13:52

game to play especially when you get into

13:54

like the stealth of it and how well

13:57

it works and then also like the feel

13:59

of combat and how crunchy it is when you

14:01

hit somebody with a melee weapon and even the shooting like

14:03

I know shooting is probably the thing that people Comment

14:06

on the most when you feel if you want to take down

14:08

a naughty dog game It's actually been talked about like something like

14:10

uncharted or lastest one I think the shooting is good like I

14:13

think the shooting is really fun and really engaging and it adds

14:16

to like this Stressful like

14:18

grounded feeling of oh man Like I got four

14:20

bullets in the chamber and I got to get

14:23

a headshot boom. I miss boom. I miss I

14:25

don't I got to get this one like there

14:27

is such a level of intensity

14:29

and engagement that I have when I'm playing the last list

14:31

as a video just as a Combat

14:33

system that works so well for me.

14:35

My second hot take is that rogue

14:38

lights rogue likes go to

14:40

genre Fantastic genre of video

14:42

games. I love rogue like so much Obviously,

14:45

like everybody loves Hades obviously so many of us

14:47

love Returnal, you

14:49

know so many of us love rogue legacy When

14:52

I think about my experiences with any of these games

14:54

you can throw in hitman Freelancer in the mix you

14:56

can throw in dead cells into the mix my

14:59

There's such a satisfaction that I get as

15:01

I like make my way through and I

15:03

am progressing and it is the further you

15:05

get The more stakes there are because

15:07

I lose here I lose everything and I built

15:09

up such a care I built up a character

15:11

that you know I care about because these are

15:13

all my preferred upgrades like oh man I built

15:15

a beast out of this thing. I can't lose

15:18

here and then you get into a combat scenario

15:20

where This strong-ass like,

15:22

you know build that you've created is

15:24

put up against some bullshit

15:27

Any dive you lose and it's such a satisfying satisfying

15:29

type of game for me But then my third hot

15:32

take being and I say hot there just takes but

15:34

like my third one here is that you know I

15:36

think this is gearing up to be one of my

15:38

favorite roguelikes Wow And I

15:40

use the word favorite. I don't use the word best just

15:43

because like when I start to talk about best You know, I think there's

15:46

something special about Hades and its narrative and its

15:48

characters and all that bringing together As

15:50

a package last of us Remastered

15:52

no return mode is it's just a gameplay right like

15:54

you're not getting any narrative elements that I think you

15:57

know That kind of holds back when I compared to

15:59

other roguelikes I say favorite because it

16:01

is taking this combat system that I love it is

16:03

taking like You know like this gameplay

16:05

system that we've played for years now right going back

16:07

to last this one within back came out in 2013

16:11

You know it's taking stealth. It's taking self

16:13

kills. It's taking the you know throwing bottles

16:15

and bricks and all these things and It's

16:18

packaging it in a way that Really understands what it

16:20

wants to do in terms of being a roguelite we

16:22

talked about all the dang systems And there's so much

16:25

that you can unlock there's so many different choices You

16:27

can make as you're making way through the maps and

16:29

I think the balance that

16:31

they found with it is so fun And so satisfying

16:33

yeah, I'm right there with you I Can

16:36

see myself playing this quite a bit and I think it'll

16:38

be really hot and heavy in the beginning where I'm on

16:41

it all The time and then I think it'll eventually be

16:43

that you know these daily runs that everyone is trying to

16:45

do the same run Right I think that'll be something I

16:48

flirt with to see how bad I am compared to everybody

16:50

else, but it is Such

16:52

a great reminder of the sandbox and the

16:55

tools they give you to play with and

16:57

then the way they're iterating on it Which

16:59

I think is important right so you

17:01

know the blog post hinted at it You've seen

17:03

some gameplay on the screen right now if you're

17:05

a visual watcher, but to really spell it out

17:08

for you right? When you start

17:10

this up you you go on into no

17:12

return you pick the character you want each

17:14

one having their own pros and cons So

17:16

in terms of like oh well Lev is

17:18

very stealth based right Ellie's balance You

17:21

know when you're playing as Abby one of her

17:23

innate traits Is that if you melee kill somebody

17:25

you get a little bit of health back right?

17:27

Everybody's got those kind of like little attributes on

17:29

them right pick them pick the difficulty and then

17:31

you start in the hideout right? Yeah, this will

17:33

be the hideout you return to you after each

17:36

one of the encounters You

17:38

have five encounters and then a boss fight

17:40

right? What happens is that you

17:42

go over to a board that looks a little bit

17:44

like the mine palace right? Yeah, you have all the

17:46

things stitched and as you see right now is if

17:48

you're watching right? Everybody's or whatever run you're

17:50

on you're gonna start on one very specific map and

17:52

then it immediately branches and then throughout you'll have other

17:54

Ones that branch and when they branch like this you

17:56

get to look at them and say if you can

17:59

pause bear it Alright, this right now we're looking

18:01

at the subway station. The encounter type is going to

18:03

be hunted. This

18:05

is one of the several modes in the game,

18:07

right? Where assault is you fighting a bunch of

18:10

different waves of enemies. Hunted is you have to

18:12

last this certain amount of time with infinite enemies

18:14

coming at you. It tells you what the enemy

18:16

faction is going to be. It talks about your

18:18

score multiplayer. It tells you what the reward would

18:20

be between, you know, scrap for crafting supplements. And

18:23

then this is, and here's a currency to buy

18:25

things out of this locker. And then on top

18:27

of that there's mods on it, right? This one

18:29

has vaulting boosts, movement, speed, and photo

18:31

mode filters, right? In terms of what's going

18:34

through. You can look and then compare which

18:36

one you want. Hunted, I enjoyed

18:38

when I played it, but it was very much like

18:41

I have preferred the assault of. Yeah. When you do

18:43

an assault run, it shows you

18:45

what wave you're on. It shows you how many enemies

18:47

are left in on the map. So for me wanting

18:49

to play stealth and wanting to hide in the tall

18:51

grass, wanting to hide behind cars, and then really feel

18:53

like I'm Batman or, you know, quietly taking people out.

18:55

That fit me more than being hunted where everybody was

18:57

out to get. Which is funny because when we talk

18:59

about the different play styles that you can have playing

19:01

it, playing Last List, right? Like for me, I did

19:04

really like the hunted and it really came together. Funny

19:06

enough in the mission that I, so the gameplay you

19:08

saw was my gameplay. I picked that thing that had

19:10

like the photo mode filters, whatever. And that was a

19:13

weird mod because like as soon as I started, it

19:15

was like this oversaturated like, aw damn, okay, I

19:17

can't really see certain things, certain ways. I

19:20

was able to hold down at like the end of

19:22

the subway tunnel and kind of create this path. So

19:24

I was like, okay, cool. I know they're going to

19:26

come down. The enemy is going to come down like

19:28

one of three ways. And so I have my shotgun.

19:30

I have my bow and arrow as Lev and I

19:32

am lining them up and I'm like, cool. I can

19:35

hold this down for maybe 30 more seconds and it

19:37

did come down to like the last second of me

19:39

being able to survive it. I like that. I also

19:41

love that as you play, you unlock more, right? And

19:43

so like there is like a, there's

19:45

a holdout mode and then there was a mode

19:47

called capture. I don't know what capture was. It

19:49

probably is. I can tell you if you want.

19:51

So far. So yeah, like we said, assault is

19:53

clear each wave. Hunted is they're coming after you

19:55

this much time. Holdout is yeah fortify your position.

19:57

Like, you know, hold out with an ally. against

20:00

people like attacking the house. And then the

20:02

capture is there is a safe that

20:05

enemies are protecting. You have to get to it before

20:07

time expires to get into the safe. And

20:09

yeah, like I think they do such a good job

20:12

of adding in these variables. Like it starts off being

20:14

fairly simple. And it was funny because I had like

20:16

the multiple come to Jesus moments of, all right, is

20:18

this it? Oh, okay, no, there's more

20:20

here to unlock. Okay, cool. Okay, is this

20:22

it? Like we were playing and we were

20:24

asking questions to the developer and we're like,

20:26

hey, so is it just like

20:28

these six things and then it's done? And they're like,

20:30

yeah, and I was like, oh yeah, cool. And then

20:32

like, well, but when you finish one, then you go

20:35

like the next one is going to give you a

20:37

different boss. And it's like six different bosses in the

20:39

game. You're building to it. Once you beat all six

20:41

of them, then it's randomly tossed in there, what you're

20:43

going to be getting. And it was the same thing

20:45

of like, okay, cool. We're playing, we did whatever the

20:47

challenge was because there was a bajillion challenges, right? That

20:49

unlock, you know, different outfits for whoever you're

20:51

playing as. Once you play enough

20:53

as one of those characters, you unlock a new character,

20:55

go play as right. But then also like we were

20:57

playing all of a sudden, it unlocks dead drops. And

21:00

it's like, oh, what's dead drops? Oh, well, when you're playing

21:02

the, a map, there'll be a mailbox that you can run

21:04

up to and it'll say like, it wants a health pack.

21:06

So if you put a health pack in there, then you

21:08

get a reward for that. Did you ever do one of

21:10

those? No, cause I was playing as Lev who didn't have

21:12

any health pack. I couldn't craft, or I didn't have the

21:14

materials to craft. I did, I skipped it at

21:16

first cause I was in the same scenario, but then I finally

21:18

put one in. And then the next, once I

21:20

got back to the like home base, the

21:23

gun, I had like a big Hunter rifle waiting for me. And I

21:25

was like, oh snap. Okay, I really got

21:27

to do this. And that's the thing too, like on

21:29

top of that, they have gambits throughout, which are basically

21:31

in level challenges. Again, they start more

21:33

simply, but in right here, we're looking at the encounter

21:36

rewards. Every time you come back from a successful encounter,

21:38

you can go here, you get this. And then on

21:40

top of that, then there's new branches

21:42

for you, supplements on and stuff like that. But

21:45

yeah, I lost what I was talking about cause I

21:47

was jumping to something else. You're talking about gambits. Gambits

21:50

are there, which are the specific challenges that they'll

21:52

give you of like, kill somebody with a Molotov,

21:54

you know, shoot somebody while you're taking something hostage.

21:57

They start simple, then they get more complicated. I

21:59

think it's the same thing with the rewards right

22:01

there if you look right now this reward is health

22:03

plus three currency right currency goes back

22:05

to you saw unpacking from the crate and home base

22:08

when you get back to home base not only is

22:10

there the map for you to pick where you want

22:12

to go with the missions not only is there the

22:14

locker you unlock to get the stuff out from your

22:16

last thing there's an upgrade bench to upgrade your weapons

22:19

just like there would be in the game and then

22:21

there's a locker that's like a store you go there

22:23

and you can spend the currency on guns

22:26

new guns refilling your

22:28

ammo get learning how to craft traps so the

22:30

next time in your next map you could craft

22:32

traps and go out and do that that way

22:34

yeah yeah like I love how

22:36

so many of these systems are are

22:38

brought together and like it never felt

22:41

overwhelming you know like I

22:43

think for me if I had one critique

22:45

for it flash like a desire

22:47

I wish that the overall thing was longer because I

22:49

look has you know you start to upgrade your character

22:52

and I got I finally got to the final boss

22:54

right which is like it did the sixth map you

22:56

do and I was like all right oh I guess

22:58

this is a penultimate thing like I I gotta

23:01

spend all my things here and like I felt powerful but I

23:03

felt like I should have felt more powerful by the time I'm

23:05

getting to the end of a run but even with that right

23:07

like as I go through go look through the systems I you

23:09

talk about the character unlocks where you can yeah get all these

23:12

different characters that have these different traits on top

23:14

of that you have costume unlocks so you can

23:16

like dress your character in different ways training

23:19

manuals so like you have the upgrade trees they're

23:21

different per character and like usually they'll have to

23:23

do like what the characters build is and so

23:26

for Abby I think Abby had like a close

23:28

combat tree I think Ellie or no I know

23:30

I know Lev had like a like

23:33

bow arrow tree yeah and so there's stuff

23:35

like that and yeah like

23:37

you mentioned all the different currencies to buy different things there's

23:41

crafting as you'd expect right and like the same

23:43

last of the stuff applies as you're playing you're

23:45

collecting broken scissors and tapes that way you can't

23:47

stop there and you can make a health pack

23:49

you can make a molotov and

23:52

then like there are encounter modifiers right so

23:54

like you know the I mentioned

23:56

the whole photo mode soldier thing

23:58

but not though Another one I got that

24:01

was thick fog fog and so as soon as I like,

24:03

you know boot up the map it is Okay, now it's

24:05

kind of hard to see you see where enemies are coming

24:07

from so I had to be a bit more alert with

24:09

that Yeah, I had that I had enemies took more damage

24:12

Had enemies drop bombs on death. Yeah,

24:14

I had that combined with Malays

24:18

melee attacks causes enemies to

24:20

catch on fire and I was a really funny

24:22

round I think that gameplay might be in the

24:24

speed roll We're like I'm running around

24:26

and yeah like I hit somebody they catch on fire

24:28

go crazy and I'm like hell Yeah, but then they

24:30

drop dead and drop a bomb immediately. So I'm like,

24:32

I gotta get out It's always like the

24:34

benefit that here we go. So like I think this guy catches

24:36

on fire Crazy

24:40

and I kill him and

24:42

then immediately like I think there's probably a bomb Yeah, like you

24:44

see the icons being hidden by anything. But yeah, you see it

24:46

there And

24:48

so yeah, I'm like, okay Well, I want to melee them so

24:51

they can catch on fire and die But if I melee them

24:53

I'm gonna be right on top of them for the bomb drop,

24:55

right? If so, that was a really fun round And

24:58

that's why I don't mind it being short like

25:00

I like that. It's obtainable It's gonna be difficult

25:02

depending on your run and if especially you want

25:04

to start But once you even get it

25:06

down like obviously all the difficulties are there we were

25:09

playing on moderate There's all the way up to granted.

25:11

There's there's light or whatever very light whatever it is,

25:13

but I like the idea of Okay.

25:15

Well now I'm doing this and I'm using a character I

25:17

don't normally use because I'm trying to do this very specific

25:19

challenge I'm trying to go through and get this part of

25:21

it like it reminds me a lot of What

25:24

I think it was to grow up with games in

25:26

the past and probably so this day But at least

25:28

for me in the past of like cool. I've beaten

25:30

this game 30 times. So today I'm just gonna try

25:32

to do it No, kill. I'm gonna try to do

25:34

it only with ninja stars I'm gonna go through and

25:36

like not use health or whatever like they're Putting

25:39

those into these rounds into these different things. So

25:42

I feel like that'll be the challenge of like,

25:44

okay cool I'm doing something that is different. Yeah,

25:46

it can't just be that I'm gonna be Ellie

25:48

every time Yeah, and I and I the game

25:50

is built for running it many plenty of times,

25:52

right? Like like we mentioned it is what

25:54

you have like five bosses that you can take out So

25:56

that's like five runs or six bosses. Sorry that you can

25:58

take out. So that's six runs that you Complete and

26:00

then yeah, they start to randomize and so there's that

26:03

and then there's a lot of long-term progression stuff in

26:05

terms of unlockables And different like on top of the

26:07

characters right there's others modes you might

26:09

or not mode well. Yeah, I'm old I guess yeah

26:11

those mods Like

26:14

a bunch of different things that over time you can get

26:16

yeah And so they build in a lot

26:18

of things there so that you feel like you're

26:20

getting a Long-term hit of oh I

26:22

can keep coming back to this and keep unlocking

26:24

and having fun But yeah, like

26:26

I don't I think that's the one thing where I'm like I

26:29

wish if in a single run if it was Maybe

26:32

like four more maps long or maybe there was like

26:34

a mid boss and been an end boss so kind

26:36

of keep me keep me engaged for longer because I

26:39

I My favorite feeling

26:41

in a roguelike is feeling all-powerful by

26:43

some I get to the end and like I that's not

26:45

last of us though right I feel like I cheated the

26:47

system when I Came

26:50

back on one of my place to use to the

26:52

locker and I didn't like any of the weapons they

26:54

had so I just bought all The resources I could

26:56

exactly get it for like two coins or whatever and

26:58

then I went and like upgraded all my one gun

27:01

To max gun. I was a guy now feeling great.

27:03

Yeah, I mean I came out of this Absolutely

27:06

loving. I like the maps to anything the

27:08

maps are they're small Well,

27:11

some of them are like more condensed than others But

27:13

there are good size for what they're going for right

27:15

like it is your what three waves of

27:17

a hoard if you're doing the Assault

27:19

mode yeah, you know like nice close quarters if we're

27:21

doing like a hunted mode like that I think they

27:24

know how to form were they modified original

27:27

maps Right because they were cuz

27:29

I there was definitely parts was like I remember this.

27:31

There's definitely I remember this There was definitely one map

27:33

that Riles like oh, I know exactly when we're at

27:35

the like the serifs like hunting lot lodge Barbara

27:40

But for the for loves people, okay.

27:43

Yeah. Yeah, no one women like log cabins

27:45

and stuff I look this seems really familiar,

27:47

but it might be probably assets. They're

27:50

reusing and reap everything Cuz

27:52

I so I had a map that

27:54

was Santa Barbara, and I was like oh, I know

27:56

exactly where this is But also yeah, I don't know

27:58

if the layouts the same yeah three years

28:00

since I played the last of course I can even

28:02

tell you but yeah it is they're all I think

28:04

they're all locations that we had in the in the

28:07

base game yeah I remember like there being a subway

28:09

I remember there being like I can't

28:11

even tell you the other parts but like all of them

28:13

none of that nothing struck me as like oh

28:15

I've not seen this before in the last exactly yeah like

28:18

this area is definitely at least inspired by like

28:21

where Abby and Lev kind of first team

28:23

up together and she leaves Lev

28:25

in like a trailer sure

28:27

yeah this part this this area I know it's

28:29

not this play remind me of last was one

28:31

like early on where yep 100% when

28:34

you get to the docks or whatever you're talking that guy

28:36

yeah it was

28:38

great yeah really fun time we're

28:40

gonna take our word for it ladies and

28:42

gentlemen the one the only the game director

28:44

of The Last of Us part 2 remastered

28:47

Matthew Gallant is here or was here but

28:49

before we get to Matthew's interview

28:53

let me tell you of course you need to

28:55

go to patreon.com/kind of funny over on patreon.com/kind of

28:57

funny you can get each and every episode of

28:59

PS I love you XOXO ad free normally you

29:01

can be in the chat live as we record

29:03

it and of course you get all the other

29:05

podcast ad free watch them live as we record

29:08

them get 400 bonus episodes of content and get

29:10

cool merch only on patreon.com/kind

29:12

of funny but since

29:15

you're not on patreon.com/kind of funny here's

29:17

a word from our sponsor this

29:19

episode is brought to you by shady

29:21

rays tis the season of giving get

29:24

the perfect gift for a special someone

29:26

yourself or both our friends at shady

29:28

rays have you covered with premium polarized

29:30

shades and quick swap snow goggles that

29:32

won't break the bank shady rays is

29:35

an independent sunglasses company that offers an

29:37

unrivaled product that's just as good as

29:39

any expensive pair we've worn y'all know

29:41

I've been outside in the Sun a

29:43

lot playing Pokemon go and it's such

29:45

a great experience wearing shady rays when

29:48

I'm out and about looking at dope

29:50

and that's not all every pair of sunglasses

29:52

is backed by lost or broken replacements if

29:54

you lose or break your pair even on

29:56

day one they told us they will send

29:58

you a brand new pair no questions asked

30:01

exclusively for our listeners. Shady Raze is

30:03

giving out a very merry deal for

30:05

the season. You can go to shadyraze.com,

30:07

use code kindoffunny for 50% off two

30:09

plus pairs of polarized sunglasses. Try for

30:11

yourself the shades rated five stars by

30:13

over 250,000 people by going to shadyraze.com,

30:18

using code kindoffunny and you'll get 50% off two

30:21

or more pairs of polarized sunglasses.

30:24

As I live and breathe, Matthew Gallant. Hello!

30:26

Hello, thank you for joining us on the show

30:29

today. Oh, so glad to be here, thanks

30:31

for having me. I need to know immediately, just

30:33

how much do you hate Neil Druckmann? All

30:35

right, just get it out, he'll never see this,

30:37

he's big time Hollywood man, he'll never know.

30:40

Neil is a lovely guy. Ah, he got you

30:42

too, he got you. Matthew,

30:45

of course, we've just previewed, but more importantly,

30:47

we've just played The Last

30:49

of Us, part two, remastered, no

30:51

return. You are game director, so

30:54

you came up with this idea all by

30:56

yourself and willed it into existence, yes? That's

30:58

more or less it, yeah. Okay, great. Start

31:01

with, how did you guys decide that this

31:03

was what you wanted to march forward to? Because as soon

31:05

as we started up, it's Last of Us,

31:07

but then also the scavenging and the going back to the home

31:10

base, I was like, man, it feels a little bit like factions

31:12

too. Like, how did this become the

31:14

mode? So, you know, we knew

31:16

from the beginning we were making The Last

31:18

of Us, part two, remastered, we're, like,

31:21

table stakes here is it's gonna be a

31:24

DS5 upgrade, it's gonna have haptics, it's gonna

31:26

be pushing out all the art settings, performance

31:28

mode, fidelity, like, that was just known.

31:31

And then we were looking across the game and thinking about, like,

31:33

well, what else could we do here that would be cool? What

31:35

are some other fun ways that we could take what's

31:37

great about The Last of Us, part two, and just expand

31:40

it in other fun ways that would

31:42

resonate with players and reach different

31:44

audiences of who would be interested in

31:46

this game? And I know, like,

31:49

I was the lead systems designer on the original game,

31:51

I know the combat really well, I know the systems,

31:54

I knew there was a lot that we could do

31:56

there to take that and expand

31:58

it. Because if you like. the combat in The

32:00

Last of Us Part II, like what can you really

32:02

do? You can go back and play the encounter, select a

32:04

whole bunch, you can play these fights over and over, but

32:07

at a certain point, you're just gonna memorize them or optimize

32:09

them, or you'll have played them every way

32:11

that they can be played and that's

32:13

about it. But we've made these

32:15

really robust AI systems,

32:18

NPCs, upgrade systems,

32:20

and it was like, if we can take this

32:22

stuff and remix it

32:24

and give the player

32:26

different choices, we can really take the breadth

32:29

of Last of Us combat, which is melee,

32:31

stealth, gunplay, crafting all these

32:33

elements, and push the player

32:35

to just try

32:37

every part of it. Like, if you're really comfortable

32:39

with one play style, maybe we can push you

32:41

onto another one, or we can kind of throw

32:44

you into a situation where you have to think on

32:46

your feet, because you're like, oh, I've never encountered

32:49

this particular combination of things before. I'm

32:52

gonna try, you know... Um...

32:55

Just gonna go for it. Gunplay style

32:57

that I'm not used to playing. I'm more of

32:59

a stealth player, but no, I've got the shotgun.

33:01

Let's roll. I didn't appreciate that about the demo,

33:03

because what happened is I saw Bless play as

33:05

Ellie, and I'm used to Ellie. I'm

33:07

usually stealth. But then I saw Abby. I was like,

33:09

oh, jumping to Abby. Oh, you know, every time I

33:11

get a melee kill, I get health back, and I

33:14

died in the first room. And I'm like, all right,

33:16

Bless, don't count this against me. And

33:18

I went to Ellie, and I did very good. Once I

33:20

got back, once I got in my wheelhouse. But again, it's

33:23

that interesting thing that, with each one of these characters that

33:25

are playable this time around, them having their

33:27

own pros, their own cons, right, really does

33:29

open my eyes, and not everybody played it the

33:32

way I did. Which was, lay on the grass,

33:34

wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, then strike. Well, it

33:36

kind of brings me back to when Last of

33:38

the Part II first came out. And I remember

33:40

us talking about how... It's funny how Hotline Miami

33:42

is an Easter egg in the game, because it

33:44

feels like the combat system feels like Hotline Miami,

33:46

where it is, you're freestyling, you're doing improv, and

33:48

you bust in a door, and it's, all right,

33:50

I got a melee weapon, pick it

33:52

up, hit a guy over the head, see a person

33:54

across the room, shoot them with the pistol, change the

33:56

shotgun. Like, it feels like it's so dynamic, and there

33:58

are so many different options. for how you

34:00

can approach things. And I think

34:02

for me, the thing that I'm excited about upon

34:05

first picking up No Return is the fact that

34:08

there are so many different variables that you guys

34:10

considered and how to make different

34:12

characters play differently, right? Like the Ellie versus Abby

34:14

thing, right? Or even me playing as Lev and

34:16

Lev having more bow and arrow

34:18

focused gameplay and being able to be more of a

34:20

silent assassin. For you guys, when you

34:23

guys first concepted this idea was

34:26

it meant to be something that had this amount

34:28

of breadth to it? Neither me or Greg

34:30

got to the end of it. But

34:32

just from like, you know, playing a little bit, it

34:34

seems like there's a lot there in this mode. Yeah,

34:38

I think it's a mode that has a lot to

34:40

offer. And thankfully, we

34:43

were able to do that because there was just so much

34:45

to draw from. There was all these amazing enemy types and

34:48

crafting items and guns and characters.

34:51

It was all just like stuff we got to play

34:53

with and go like, how can we put this together?

34:55

How can we, you know, build our LEGO kit a

34:57

different way and make it

35:00

something different? And yeah,

35:02

for the playable characters, I think

35:04

that was something where we really wanted to go, how can we make

35:06

a bunch of characters that when

35:08

you select them, it's really gonna change your

35:10

game plan going in. You're

35:13

gonna go in, you know, and think about, oh, this is gonna

35:15

be my stealth character. We have

35:17

another character, you probably didn't get to

35:19

him, but Manny, he starts a run.

35:21

He's got the hunting rifle and the

35:23

hunting pistol and the semi auto rifle,

35:25

but he doesn't have the health kit

35:27

recipe. okay,

35:30

I'm pretty stacked in terms of guns, but I'm not gonna

35:32

be able to heal myself, so I really gotta treat my

35:34

health as like this precious resource and I gotta really think

35:36

about that. I

35:40

think this is what's really cool about the mode is

35:42

that we have all these tools

35:44

to play with and we can throw

35:46

different combinations of them. And some of

35:48

these combinations are really surprising. Like

35:50

even me, I know all the mechanics in the

35:52

game, but I will run into

35:54

some combination of like an enemy type and a

35:56

mod and a map and I'm like, oh wow,

35:59

this is actually really. intense and I'm having to

36:01

think about the strategy while I'm playing it and

36:03

I think that was really what I

36:05

wanted to what we wanted to get at with this mode

36:07

was was that when you're

36:09

playing the main story you kind of can

36:11

end up just cruising on like your your favorite

36:13

guns your favorite items you can get into like

36:15

a set of items that feels very comfortable for

36:17

you and you can carry a lot

36:19

of that through the end of the game and especially

36:22

like as you're getting into the louder half of either

36:24

character story like you got so many options to where

36:26

you got a whole roster of guns a whole roster

36:28

of crafting items going back to a situation where it's

36:30

like if I don't

36:32

like this rifle well this is the rifle I have I

36:34

better figure out how to use it I better play around

36:36

it you know set myself up at this longer-range

36:38

gameplay even if that's not something that I'm comfortable

36:40

with that's how I like to play the game

36:43

but let's try it let's try playing

36:45

this you know doing this different combat fantasy

36:47

and see how that feels on and sometimes

36:50

it you know it feels awesome

36:52

to be expanding yourself into these different

36:54

play styles and sometimes you're like well that was

36:56

uncomfortable but it was a stretch or it was

36:58

I had a interesting time

37:00

because it was unexpected and I was having to push

37:02

myself on out of my comfort zone I think that's

37:05

what's so cool about it again we know we didn't

37:07

reach we are there like we've talked about before I

37:09

assume even though we're filming out of order you know

37:12

you get the five different maps right and then a

37:14

boss right so five encounters then your boss right for

37:16

a run even beyond that

37:19

it's the fact of you're

37:21

unlocking the other characters by playing a certain a number of

37:23

times with this characters right and like you can see I

37:25

love that you guys didn't like hide anything it is very

37:27

much like oh you want to once you've unlocked character you

37:29

can see you know all the challenges for them to then

37:31

get the cool outfits or whatever right the

37:34

savage starlight thing so good I know it looks

37:36

so good but then like the idea that okay cool

37:38

so you know you play Lev that and that unlocks

37:40

Yara right then you play Yara that unlocks etc

37:42

etc anything I'm gonna do is out through the whole

37:44

cast I like that because of course you're

37:48

forcing me isn't the right word but encouraging me

37:50

heavily to try these characters and even if I'm like

37:52

I'm gonna go back to lab I'm gonna go back

37:54

to lab that'll be my daily challenge one unless I'm

37:56

sure daily challenge is why I assume make me use

37:58

a character at some point I

38:01

like the idea of getting in there mixing up

38:03

and trying things like you're saying right very your

38:05

play style Obviously as you continue to go through

38:07

these different things and you get the random drops.

38:09

How are you gonna play that way? I really

38:12

loved the gambits right these gambits popping up that

38:14

are one time in the in the map you're

38:16

on the map You're in hey, here's a mission

38:18

kill a guy with a Molotov do this thing

38:20

obviously they start getting a little bit more complicated

38:22

I noticed as we continue to unlock more But

38:24

it is this idea really that is cool

38:26

even if you've played this game 10

38:28

times it should be different that 11th time and

38:31

those gambits We

38:33

thought about a lot of in that mechanic of

38:36

like risk and reward It's like here's the small

38:38

challenge it might seem kind of easy It's got

38:40

this little extra reward But I can't tell you

38:42

how many times like me just stretching myself and

38:44

going for the gambit is it gets me killed

38:46

Yeah, that's what like pushes me to do the

38:48

the Risky move

38:50

expose myself and like oh no Again

38:54

like yeah right here right now if an enemy while

38:56

holding another or killing enemy holding another is a hostage

38:58

like That's a bit more complicated. I think you guys

39:01

it's baby steps into bigger ones and I think again

39:03

that's the Challenge of coming back to

39:05

this time and time again of obviously if you if

39:07

you're gonna be that invested in this mode you want

39:09

More things to do you want crazier things to go

39:11

off? Yeah, this is a mode that I'm very excited

39:14

about like when the trailer first Dropped I couldn't believe

39:16

it. So the idea of I'm somebody who really likes

39:18

real glides, right? Like especially when I were

39:20

talking about a Returnal or a Hades right or like

39:22

the list goes on And

39:25

something over the years that I've been very happy with is

39:27

that we've been getting more Triple-a roguelites

39:29

in the way that we got Returnal a couple

39:31

years ago And even at the top of this

39:33

year we got hitman freelancer mode Which is basically

39:35

another mode in the hitman game, right? That is

39:38

more roguelite You

39:40

know center that is like hey you have a run and like

39:42

don't die or else you're gonna lose our all your progress And

39:44

there are all these dynamic systems that are changed the way that

39:46

you want to play Very

39:48

excited for an idea for the idea of that being

39:51

in the last list and as I've been playing through

39:53

it I have been like, okay cool. This is this

39:55

is exactly what I want Like this is giving me

39:57

what I feel like last list does great in

39:59

terms of confidence In terms of stealth in terms

40:01

of all that but yeah like formatted in a

40:03

way that you know It's giving me the

40:06

maximum of that. Let's focus it on the gameplay. Let's like

40:08

give me an experience It's gonna be brutal But also because

40:10

of that it's gonna be fun trying to figure out how

40:12

to get around all this stuff For you guys when you're

40:14

figuring this stuff out like did you have influence? Did you

40:16

have influences or inspirations right? Did you look at a return

40:18

or did you look at a Hades and go oh man?

40:21

We have so much fun doing this that we should bring

40:23

this to the last list I

40:25

would say that we drew very broadly from

40:27

roguelikes because like you I love Roguelikes

40:30

and I've been so amazed in like I

40:32

don't know the past three five years. There's

40:34

just been this Amazing explosion

40:36

of creativity around all these different

40:38

roguelike games. They're all

40:40

taking Different approaches different

40:42

ideas like playing with the format a lot

40:46

But we were looking at that across the board

40:48

and just going like this is such a cool design space What

40:51

would it look like for our version of this? What

40:53

would a Last of Us roguelike look like and there

40:55

were two Like high-level

40:57

themes that I think were really important for

40:59

us the first one was the permadeath aspect

41:02

because You know if you're in

41:04

cover your low health someone's got a beat on you

41:07

That feels very differently like in your heart

41:09

in your gut When you've got

41:11

like a minute since your last checkpoint and it's

41:13

no big deal versus like oh, I'm on map

41:15

four If I die here

41:18

like this whole wrong shot. Yeah, and

41:20

like that that gets your heart pounding

41:22

that there gets your palm sweaty Just

41:24

knowing that there's stakes involved during

41:26

these runs And then the

41:28

other element that we just really love it was

41:30

that randomization part of roguelikes where it's like Okay,

41:32

even if I die or you know, even if

41:34

I succeed I'm gonna be they're

41:36

gonna be keep throwing me these new challenges at

41:39

me remixing things putting things together in different ways

41:42

I'm gonna have to start from zero again and

41:44

make all these new choices again and plan and

41:46

like try to learn from what I did Well

41:48

last time so we thought like those two high-level

41:50

themes Plus the last of us is

41:52

combat and systems. It just seemed like a really natural

41:54

fit Yeah, I felt the intensity when

41:56

I was doing my first hunted, but

41:58

you know, you'd be different modes, right? There's a whole

42:00

assault, which is clear all the waves. There's

42:03

hunted where it's just, you're gonna get enemy after

42:05

enemy after enemy, you have to survive this long.

42:08

There's hold out right, which is like barricade up the

42:10

place, keep them out that way. And then capture, which

42:12

is you getting to the safe, getting the stuff before

42:14

time runs out. Hunted was like,

42:16

I kept picking assault on purpose. I was like, I

42:18

don't wanna deal with this, and then I got forced

42:20

into one, because of course, once you pick your path,

42:22

you're on a path at these different

42:24

junctions. And getting in there and having it

42:26

be like, everything is great. And then that final 20

42:28

seconds, when I did finally get caught and

42:31

they saw me, and it was just guns and Molotovs, I was

42:33

like, God, I finished that, and that was, okay,

42:35

that felt good. I

42:38

love how you can strategize around. Like,

42:40

I just gotta make it 20 seconds. Yeah. Like,

42:43

if I can just hold up. But even then, right, I thought what

42:45

was so brilliant is that, of course, your

42:47

ammo and health kits that you have,

42:49

right, that carries over to your next

42:51

map. So there was the times where

42:54

I was like, one guy

42:56

left, he's coming straight at me. I

42:58

don't wanna waste the bullets. So I'll lay here and let him go

43:00

the other way, and then I'll throw the brick and then run over

43:02

it. Because even then, it starts to count down to send you back

43:04

to the hideout, I start running around trying to find the brick. You

43:06

know what I mean? Like, I want everything. I wanna come into the

43:08

next one as strong as possible. One

43:11

thing that I found really cool, right, is the fact that you

43:13

can play all these different characters. Like, we talk about how you

43:15

can play as just, not just Ellie and Abby, right, but you

43:17

can play as Yara, you can play as Lev,

43:19

you can play as these other characters. 10 characters, right? Yep. Ellie,

43:22

Dina, Jesse, Tommy, Joel, Abby,

43:24

Lev, Yara, Mel, Manny. Got

43:26

it. And this is something I noticed, but I wasn't

43:29

sure about. Did you have to go back and get

43:31

those performers to record lines for it?

43:33

Like, did you have to get them to do the shouts

43:35

and grunts and all that? We used

43:37

all the material that was recorded for the original game.

43:39

Gotcha. So you just had it all

43:41

on deck, and like, that's one that's very convenient. Might

43:44

have to slightly munchalay that there might be a little

43:46

bit of extra pickup we did, but almost none. My

43:48

other question on top of that was, did you

43:50

guys ever consider a narrative element to this? You

43:53

know, I think it's, you know, it's fun

43:55

thinking about Naughty Dog and who you guys are as a company,

43:57

because Naughty Dog, known for the stories, right? Known for the narratives.

44:00

stuff this being an extra mode it is like a

44:02

okay well if you did a rogue light like you'd

44:04

have to be supernatural right and like as I started

44:06

to think about it I started to think about like

44:08

Ghost Shima Legends and how they were like alright if

44:10

we're gonna do this then we're gonna make it a

44:12

whole weird thing where it is somebody telling the story

44:14

of the legends of the Ghost Shima and like make

44:16

it the supernatural thing and when you

44:18

guys were figuring out this mode was there

44:20

ever a conversation of what if we added

44:22

a story or something so

44:25

we knew kind of right off the bat that we we

44:28

wanted this to be like not canon

44:30

because we wanted to get away from

44:32

strict groundedness that's such a pillar

44:35

of the game design in

44:37

the main story and we knew if we could

44:39

be flexible with that there was just so much gameplay

44:41

we can open up so we do pretty wild things

44:44

in their return or like we have we

44:46

have a mod that doesn't visible enemies we have

44:48

a mod that makes like pustules

44:51

rain from the sky there's one I

44:53

got where whenever I'd melee somebody they catch on fire so

44:56

so we knew if we could like be flexible

44:58

with groundedness and be flexible with cannon like this

45:01

is non-canon mode that that would unlock that and

45:03

that kind of put us in a place where

45:05

we didn't want to attach a

45:07

story to this it made more sense to think about

45:09

it as like this is gameplay first this is what

45:14

can we do when we're not having this

45:16

really not

45:19

constrained like it's so important

45:21

to us in the main story that like

45:23

when we're making combat that that combat is

45:25

then resonating with the themes of the story

45:27

like we're thinking so hard about like how

45:29

do we connect what you're doing

45:31

you know in the gameplay in the combat on the stick

45:33

to then that moment a minute later where like

45:36

we want you to feel like Ellie we want you to

45:38

feel like the character of whatever emotions they're feeling you're feeling

45:40

them too and we

45:42

knew we couldn't do like that level

45:44

of connection or just

45:48

it made more sense to not try and aim

45:50

for that aim for something different here this is

45:52

not a mode where we're saying here's gameplay here's

45:54

narrative here's how they weave together really seamlessly like

45:56

now this is gameplay is time to shine this

45:58

combat's time to shine and we can

46:00

do whatever we want within that system to

46:03

make really cool and interesting combat encounters. Awesome.

46:06

It's about time. I think that's it. We

46:09

talked about it, yeah, at review, obviously, how good Last

46:11

of Us Part II's gameplay is. And then when Last

46:13

of Us Part I came around and it was, ah,

46:15

I can't go pro. Ah, I can't, you know what

46:17

I mean? The little things of a game that was

46:19

older that came before, right? And then to have this,

46:21

to sit down, it was that, oh, I forgot how

46:24

good this was, right? The further you get away from

46:26

Last of Us Part II, what we talk about is,

46:28

obviously, graphics and stuff, but it is the narrative and

46:30

the performance and the arguing about the themes and

46:32

why characters did what they did or whatever, right?

46:34

So it's like great to get

46:36

in here and have another reason to jump in and just have that

46:39

gameplay here. Yeah, it brings it back to, we

46:41

had an episode that was Last of Us Part I versus

46:43

Last of Us Part II and went category by category, trying

46:45

to compare the two and talk about which one we think

46:47

is better. And one of the points

46:49

that I try to make in favor of Last of

46:51

Us Part I is the multiplayer. Like having the factions

46:53

mode back in the day was such a pillar for

46:55

me, because I really enjoyed that factions mode and it

46:58

was the thing that allowed me to, from

47:00

a gameplay perspective, just have the gameplay and have

47:02

fun with that. And I kind of miss the

47:04

idea of Last of Us Part II not

47:07

having its actions, not having an extra thing to do that

47:09

just got you into the gameplay. So now that we have

47:11

this and now that I've gotten a taste of it, I'm

47:13

like, oh man, this might actually bring

47:16

Last of Us Part II up in that conversation today, because I

47:18

know I'm probably gonna spend a lot of time in this mode.

47:21

Yeah, me too. I think that's the takeaway I have for

47:23

it. Obviously, I couldn't look at trophy lists. We got a

47:25

new trophy list for this one? Yeah, we do. I

47:28

wasn't aware that that was a restriction. Yeah, no,

47:30

there's the trophy list. Basically what it works is

47:32

we have the main game has

47:35

the same set of trophies that you can import your

47:37

save and do that really seamlessly. There's

47:39

that section that we had for extra trophies

47:41

for the grounded patch on the original game.

47:43

So there's three in there, I believe. And

47:45

then we have a full DLC

47:48

size section of trophies for no return.

47:51

And we tried to make

47:53

it a broad set of really interesting challenges, stuff

47:56

that connects to the mode, stuff that

47:58

like the challenges themselves. get

48:00

players to fully explore all the systems and try all

48:03

the different things. So, yep, it's got its own trophy

48:05

section for that. My next question is, how crazy do

48:07

you expect to get with these daily challenges? Like, is

48:09

it going to be pretty odd? Is it just mundane

48:11

or is it going to be do this whole thing

48:13

and don't shoot anybody and just do you? So,

48:15

the daily run is the

48:19

way it works is that when we're generating a

48:21

run, there's a random seed at the heart of

48:23

it. So, you can get the same random

48:25

seed, you're always going to get the same set

48:27

of like map choices, gambit choices, trading post choices,

48:30

etc. What daily run is

48:32

everyone on that day playing the same

48:34

random seed. Gotcha. So, getting offered

48:36

the same map choices, the same gambits,

48:38

like all across the board you're going to

48:40

get the same choice and then there's

48:43

the leaderboard where when you're doing a

48:45

run you get a score for

48:47

certain things like speed, efficiency of resources, stuns,

48:51

like different things will get you points and

48:53

so then when you're finished your daily run that post

48:55

is going to go on a global leaderboard to be

48:57

able to see how you did versus the other players

49:00

like who got the best score for that day. And I'm

49:02

going to be really interested to see how players, you know, maximize

49:05

that. Okay, they break this and do it in a

49:07

way you never thought right, they would have these times.

49:10

But I find daily run really fun, you know, not

49:12

only in Never Turn but just like other roguelikes I've

49:14

played. For sure. Like, it's a

49:16

really good excuse to just drop in, take your

49:18

shot, you know, sometimes it goes hilariously wrong and

49:20

you die on the first map or whatever and

49:22

sometimes you're getting in there and you're getting sweaty

49:24

and it goes really well and then being able

49:27

to get a sense of like, oh, how good

49:29

actually was I at this and what can I

49:31

do to play to like really max out that

49:33

score. I think it's gonna be really fun. I'm

49:35

looking forward to it. I don't expect to be good on the

49:37

daily run but I expect to try for a while. I think,

49:40

you know, I'm gonna chip away at this one for a while.

49:42

Yeah, I'm very much looking forward to

49:45

this. Like, again, me talking about how much I've

49:47

been enjoying roguelikes the last few years. I

49:49

talk a lot about Hitman Freelancer and how like,

49:51

you know, that came out of nowhere. Like, they

49:53

just dropped it and I started playing and I'm

49:55

like, man, this is very addicting and made me

49:57

appreciate Hitman even more just in the way, like,

49:59

out. Couple hours we did playing

50:01

this mode at at the preview like I'm already

50:04

like man This is making me real

50:06

relive all the fun that I had with the last of part

50:08

2 combat back in the day And so yeah

50:10

very excited Thank You Matthew. Thank

50:13

you very much. I'm so excited to hear of course coming

50:15

up January 19th Not too far not

50:17

long at all you should give us code soon. Huh what

50:19

that yeah? Ladies

50:21

and gentlemen this has been another episode

50:24

of PS. I love you XO XO

50:26

Remember where your PlayStation podcast that you

50:28

can usually get every Friday morning of

50:30

course you could usually watch us record

50:32

it live patreon.com/kind of funny on Thursday

50:34

you could get ad free there You

50:36

get more than 400 bonus episodes of

50:38

content you of course could get exclusive

50:41

merch only on patreon.com/kind of funny No

50:43

box tosser way No big deal youtube.com/kind of

50:45

funny games and podcast services around the globe

50:48

each and every Friday for a brand spanking

50:50

new episode Until next time

50:52

it's been a pleasure to serve you You