0:00

Hard in the eruption,

0:02

but I'm Pablo Torre, and I love hosting

0:04

PTI with you, Tony. So is it also

0:07

a special day for you? I'm

0:09

Tony Kornheiser. It's a Friday

0:12

for me, Pablo. A Friday. Okay.

0:15

So I just do this for three days in a row

0:17

and that's about the extent

0:19

of the beat. They're all special. They're

0:21

all special. All the days ending

0:24

in y are special to me. and

0:26

I hope they are to you too. Is this what

0:28

it's like the older child? Is this what it feels

0:30

like, I guess, your grandchild in this case? Just

0:33

before I Right. Right. Right. Right. don't actually

0:35

talk to me because of the talking

0:37

to PTI boys and girls, will

0:39

my needs to day off to recover from his days

0:41

off, so I'm pleased to be once again joined by

0:43

our great friend from the ESPN Daily

0:46

and The Daily Podcast Mr.

0:48

Pablo Torre.

0:51

Geez. That's Friday, applause. Thank

0:54

you. Specifically.

0:55

And we begin today with the Celtics

0:57

officially suspending head coach emade

1:00

Doca for the upcoming season for

1:02

what they call, quote, multiple violations,

1:05

unquote, of teen policies.

1:07

News reports yesterday described a consensual

1:09

affair with DOKA had with a staffer, though

1:11

the athletic today cited sources

1:14

saying the staff member accused Udocca

1:16

of making unwanted comments toward

1:18

her. Pablo, what new questions

1:20

is all of this raise in your mind? Yeah.

1:23

What were the violations, Tony?

1:25

How many violations were there?

1:27

I watched this press conference with Whit

1:29

Grousebeck, the owner of the Celtics and Brad Stephens,

1:31

the head of basketball operations, Dow.

1:33

And I was I was

1:35

pretty

1:36

curious as to how it was that Whit Grausebeck

1:39

mentioned almost accidentally, almost

1:42

passively that part of the Celtics' culture

1:44

is freedom from harassment. And,

1:47

harassment to me

1:49

has been the word that has not yet been

1:51

established in the public conversation around

1:53

this story. It had always been around consent,

1:56

and this wasn't back consensual. Now

1:58

we have questions that raise

2:00

more questions about consent and also

2:03

what happened after that

2:05

relationship allegedly got

2:08

complicated, which would explain

2:10

why it is that we're dealing with a

2:12

year long suspension and a de facto Tony

2:14

firing if you believe that,

2:16

you know, it's hard, in fact, for

2:18

coach to come back after something like this.

2:21

So when I saw

2:23

this morning, what

2:25

the punishment was, I will

2:27

concede that

2:28

I thought it was harsh, that it was a

2:30

year, and it was harsh. And then I asked myself the question

2:32

that you really have to ask yourself all the time.

2:35

What do they know that I don't know?

2:37

Because

2:37

I know almost nothing about

2:40

this and it's awfully vague.

2:42

I don't know, for example, if

2:44

there were any other people

2:46

involved in this. Right? I don't

2:49

yeah, I don't know, for example, if anyone

2:51

in the Celtics ever said, we don't

2:53

want you doing this. I don't know that

2:56

that happened. I don't know what is the

2:58

nature of these people's relationship right

3:00

now as you are alluding to if

3:02

they're together or if, you know,

3:04

there's any contention. We don't. I don't know

3:06

any of these things and I don't know anyone

3:09

who knows these things that I can call

3:11

up. But I too watched a little of that press

3:13

conference. And when I heard that Odelka

3:16

had according to the owner, Broken

3:18

Team Rules, I

3:19

interpreted that I guess

3:22

the way it was described as the

3:24

as the coach had knowingly

3:26

violated team rules. And

3:28

I and And

3:29

it leads me to

3:31

to get philosophical just for a second

3:33

or or please, not necessarily philosophical.

3:36

The the the literature of America

3:39

is replete

3:40

with office romances. Television

3:42

shows and books

3:44

and movies are done about office

3:46

romances. I know people

3:49

who have been in office romances. I

3:51

have worked for people who have

3:53

been in office romances. and

3:55

I'm old enough that the America I

3:57

grew up in, there were not specific

3:59

rules against this. In fact,

4:02

some people actually aspired to it. But

4:04

as I said yesterday, things are

4:06

different now, and I totally appreciate

4:09

the fact that when you were in a position

4:11

of power, if you're a coach, If you're a general

4:13

manager, if you're a CEO, you

4:15

know, if you're an owner and you have

4:17

advances towards someone who

4:19

was on a lower level on the

4:22

organizational scale, they

4:24

could easily think of this as coercion, and

4:26

that is a very terrible thing

4:29

to have. So there

4:31

are rules now in place that were not necessarily

4:33

in place when I was growing up. I

4:35

also saw I guess I

4:38

read the apology, which seemed

4:40

contrite. I'm very concise to me.

4:42

There's no mention of coming back next year.

4:44

There's none. No. That's another thing.

4:47

You know, what are they gonna

4:49

know that I don't know exactly.

4:50

They're not committing to him beyond

4:53

this suspension. They don't They refused

4:55

to say actually what they would do, which is

4:57

telling, but also to your point about the larger

4:59

climate of American corporations, we

5:02

have seen CEOs. over and

5:04

over again, get fired for having

5:06

consensual relationships with subordinates

5:08

because of all of the messes that

5:11

erupt as a result of them. And

5:13

so again, we don't hear nearly enough,

5:16

but clearly, Todie. This is

5:18

a story that does not unfold

5:20

this way because

5:22

it's a nothing burger. Right?

5:24

Something happened. We just

5:26

don't know what. Sorry

5:28

to take so much time on this. We moved

5:30

now to last night's Cleveland Browns twenty

5:33

nine seventeen victory at home over

5:35

the Visionrival Pittsburgh, Jacoby Bracette,

5:37

had two touchdown passes and Nick Chubb had

5:39

a hundred thirteen yards and rushing touchdown

5:41

for Cleveland. Mitch Trebisky was marginally

5:44

better throwing the ball for Pittsburgh, and despite

5:46

scoring only three points in the second half, the Steelers

5:48

did not go to Kenny Pickett. It was

5:50

hardly an artful game. Pablo, what is your

5:52

biggest takeaway? Tony,

5:53

I found myself relating to this game

5:55

after being utterly uninterested in it as

5:57

a concept as we discussed yesterday. And I

5:59

related to it because I realized Like

6:02

me, Jacoby Bracette and

6:04

Mitchell Trebriski are not long for

6:06

the jobs they're doing at the moment. They're

6:09

warming chairs as am I.

6:11

The difference though is that Mitchell Trebisky

6:14

is not going to be getting

6:17

more opportunities because he's

6:20

earned them. He's going to getting

6:22

more opportunities because Mike

6:24

Tomlin who said after the game, he's not

6:26

considering a quarterback change. Fears

6:29

for the safety of the guy he would

6:31

have to bring in. Kenny Pickett to replace him.

6:33

Right? Reset looked fine. Yeah.

6:36

Solid.

6:37

Travinsky, it's

6:38

a dead man walking situation. Clearly,

6:41

just gonna have to keep on walking because it's not

6:43

time to bring into a new kid yet?

6:46

Well,

6:46

obviously, so is is Jacoby

6:48

Bracette who had a had very good game.

6:50

and in the press conference afterward and press me

6:52

as real stand up guy. But you don't spend two

6:54

hundred thirty million dollars under Sean Watson.

6:56

If you're not gonna put him in the absolute

6:58

minute he is cleared to play, That's when he's

7:01

going to happen there. Yeah. That

7:03

one so that's after eleven

7:05

games. So

7:06

that it's the same thing. I was interested.

7:08

I mean, to me, you put

7:10

in Look. Mike Tubman has

7:12

earned the right to play whomever he wants

7:14

for as long as he wants. But to

7:16

me, If you're gonna put a rookie in, you

7:18

put a rookie in on the road, and if you

7:20

can put them in on the road against a bad team,

7:22

which Cleveland qualifies, that's

7:25

what you do. The jets

7:27

are next. Maybe and I don't say

7:29

you start them. Just give them a little taste

7:31

of NFL life. The jets are next, you can do that.

7:33

But after the jets, Pueblo

7:35

at -- Pablo. -- Tampa Bay

7:37

at Miami at Eagles. You can't break.

7:39

Can you pick it in that way? But again,

7:42

I I thought it was an opportune time

7:45

to put them in because, you know, the Steelers, they

7:47

look like they're just treading water. They're not

7:49

a good team. Where are they going this

7:51

year? And I and yeah. Go

7:53

ahead. No.

7:54

I mean, the top line thing. Right? You mentioned you

7:56

have some sort of respect for him and

7:58

so do I because he is

7:59

a rare NFL coach who

8:01

has never had a losing season. So

8:03

the question I have is, How do

8:05

you keep that street going

8:06

when you're trying to protect the long term

8:09

interests of the young quarterback? Who

8:11

schedule, as you described, hypothetically, could

8:13

be a nightmare?

8:16

But

8:16

I love when Tomlin said the answer to your

8:18

question is definitively no. I mean,

8:20

I love that. You know where he stands on this.

8:23

It's wonderful. Yeah. Yes. But

8:25

we move on, Tony, because speaking of quarterbacks,

8:27

Aaron Rogers and Tom Brady, they face

8:29

each other Sunday afternoon in a matchup

8:32

of two of the best quarterbacks in NFL

8:34

history, and that's without question. Rogers has

8:36

four MVPs, Brady has three, Rady

8:38

has seven Super Bowl wins. Rogers,

8:40

of course, has one. And so when a

8:42

sports talk radio host, haven't

8:44

heard of this guy before named Dan Levittard, sweatily

8:47

asked Rogers to make the case as being

8:49

better than Brady. Rogers said this,

8:51

Tony, quote, there's Super Bowl championships

8:54

and then there's talent and ability. And think when

8:56

that's the standard, I probably should

8:58

be in the conversation and quote.

9:01

So

9:01

do you agree?

9:03

Okay. So I saw that as well.

9:05

I saw that Aaron Rogers was trying to make

9:07

a case that accomplishments and

9:10

talent are somehow different.

9:12

To

9:12

me, a lot of people have talent and

9:14

in a team sport,

9:16

your hard talent ask is

9:18

to get everybody together and win championships.

9:22

You know, I love Aaron Rogers

9:24

as a quarterback. If I could start team

9:26

with any quarterback right now and you gave me either

9:28

Aaron Rogers or Patrick Mahomes, I

9:30

would be thrilled. And I'm sure it rankings

9:32

Aaron Rogers that he's only been

9:34

to one Super Bowl which he won. But

9:37

I think it matters that Tom Brady has been

9:39

to ten and 17I

9:41

think that's an important statistic.

9:43

I think that's an accomplishment that is

9:45

not negated because somebody

9:47

else has a has a high degree

9:50

of talent. What are the notes that I took here?

9:52

You know, we are not, and in the

9:54

in the case of Rogers,

9:55

and Brady. We are not comparing

9:58

people

9:58

from different eras. They are

10:00

contemporary quarterbacks. And

10:03

one guy's got seven And

10:05

one guy's got one that's gotta

10:07

account for something. But

10:09

but this is why I will allow

10:11

Rogers into the conversation. Granted,

10:14

The conversation is over.

10:16

Like, Tom Brady is the answer

10:17

to the question, but Aaron Rogers

10:19

can be in the Antichamber.

10:22

He can be in a foyer of the conversation.

10:24

Sure. Because the NFL pro

10:26

football, it's eleven guys on

10:28

each side. Right? It's not the NBA. Aaron Rogers

10:31

referenced Bill Russell. Right? Okay.

10:33

Yes. He got a foul as a very different proposition. He

10:36

can't play defense. Aaron Rogers.

10:38

He used to rely on so many other people.

10:40

It was kind of polite of him actually to frame it in

10:42

this way as opposed to the blunt terms I'm describing

10:44

because his teammates weren't up to

10:46

the task in the way that Aaron Rogers was.

10:49

when it comes to why didn't he make more Super

10:51

Bowls? So

10:52

he's in the conversation, but he's also lost

10:54

the conversation at the same time. Let

10:57

me just say this though, because I found it

10:59

instructive. Erin Rogers is too young to

11:01

have seen Bill Russell play, and I understand that.

11:03

And he said that he felt that Michael Jordan

11:06

and Kobe Bryant were the best players he had ever

11:08

seen. And that's fun. Yeah. But I'm gonna

11:10

come back to championships just a little bit

11:13

because Michael Jordan has six and

11:15

Kobe s five. And you're hundred percent right. They

11:17

can influence a game far more than a guy who

11:19

can only play half the game. But they got a

11:21

load of championships. I just think that Aaron Rogers

11:23

and he's great. and I love him. But

11:25

I think he's chasing something that he can't

11:28

catch. Let's

11:28

take a break. Coming up, Aaron

11:30

Judd came up just short of sixty one last

11:33

night. What's the word for that? And what's

11:35

the best way to describe Jerry Jones' longing

11:37

for a quarterback competition in Dallas?

11:41

I loved seeing Levitas point. I

11:43

love the video of Levitas. Yeah.

11:45

I really did. The camera angle The camera

11:47

angle from this. So weird chin. But

11:50

it was just his hair. It was his hair.

11:52

And yeah. His I said it wasn't

11:54

I'll just somebody be so big. Even

11:57

now bigger. Just

11:58

staggering. How all of this worked out?

11:59

Part of the interruption is brought to you

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13:52

It's time

13:54

for little ten to ten with mister

13:55

Harvard, big word. Let's get the

13:57

first one from the producer over the loudspeaker.

14:00

Aaron Judge's deep fly ball in

14:02

the night last night was blank.

14:06

close. It was close.

14:08

What do you want me to say? He's still

14:10

on sixty. The sign said

14:12

408 and he hit it about 404

14:15

And you can say, well, if it was in any other

14:17

part of the ballpark, it would go out. Okay.

14:20

Hit it to another part of the ballpark and

14:22

let it go out. Years ago, there were signs put

14:24

up by clothing manufacturers Hit the side

14:26

and win the suit. You have to hit the side.

14:28

It's not horse shoes. You can't get

14:31

it close. He's on sixty. If

14:33

he wants sixty one, He's gotta put it

14:35

out of the park. What am I missing here?

14:37

Tony, that's why my word is

14:40

measurable. It was a measurable

14:43

home run referring of chorus to young Jeffrey

14:45

mayor, now approximately my age

14:47

terrifyingly in nineteen ninety six. If this

14:49

was a right field, almost home run,

14:51

he could have reached over and grabbed it. Unfortunately,

14:53

it was to dead center. But the other thing

14:56

about nineteen ninety six and why I mentioned

14:58

why it's memorable is because the Yankee's

15:00

also clinched a postseason berth. in

15:02

the same game. And I just wanna remind

15:04

people, perhaps the yankees themselves, that

15:07

I hold you to the standard of ninety six to the

15:09

mid nineties. to the years when just

15:11

making the playoffs wasn't enough.

15:13

Right? So mildly celebrate this

15:15

thing, yes, the home run chase is fantastic.

15:18

It's historic in all these senses,

15:20

but we

15:21

need number twenty eight. And that's not

15:23

a whole run number. That's a world series trophy

15:25

number.

15:27

I remember Jeffrey Mayer. I

15:29

do. He became a very good college

15:31

baseball player, a very good hitter.

15:34

I believe that to be true. I shock you. I believe

15:36

that, sir. What's next?

15:38

Jerry Jones' hopes for an eventual

15:40

quarterback controversy between Cooper

15:42

Rush and Jack Prescott are

15:44

blank.

15:46

Insane, that's my word,

15:49

insane. Jerry Jones wants

15:51

Cooper Rush to be good enough that

15:53

they can win some games and they don't

15:55

slide out of any contention before

15:57

that Prescott gets back. He doesn't

15:59

want a quarterback controversy he

16:02

is paying Jack Prescott

16:04

a billion dollars. He doesn't want

16:06

that investment to go down the drain because he has

16:08

to pay Cooper rush a billion

16:11

dollars. This isn't the Saudi tour.

16:13

There aren't unlimited funds. Eight

16:16

four weeks ago, Jerry Jones didn't

16:18

know who Cooper Rush was. If you said

16:20

Cooper, he said Manning. So he

16:22

wants him to be good enough. Let me just say this

16:24

Pablo. I had to endure two

16:27

years of watching first take where every

16:29

single day was will that get paid?

16:31

I don't want two more years of will Cooper

16:34

get paid. I don't. Well, that's

16:36

why Jerry's hopes that I'm gonna use the shortest

16:38

word I've ever used on this program. That's

16:40

why Jerry's hopes

16:42

are ours. And when

16:44

I say hours, I mean, the people

16:46

in the office where I am, the Seaport in

16:48

New York City, where all of these debate shows

16:50

in part are filmed. And yes,

16:53

We want this. I

16:55

don't know why Jerry seems to

16:57

sound like he wants it. It is insane.

16:59

It feels borderline lebotomized,

17:01

Tony, as if we had taken out

17:03

his brain and put in the people who

17:05

argue on televisions and replaced

17:07

it. I don't get it. All I know that on

17:09

Jack Treskot, I am very confused

17:11

and actually hurt at this point that this keeps

17:14

on being said in so many different ways.

17:17

That's a final word. Let's take one last break

17:19

still to come. What happened to Team USA against

17:22

Japan earlier today? Pablo's gonna

17:24

break it down for us. Sure. And

17:26

are the Titans or Raiders more likely to get

17:28

their very first win on Sunday?

17:31

It's so great when you do watch the word

17:33

and get to say insane. It

17:36

just makes me happy because I

17:38

there's no ambiguity in how I feel.

17:40

It's insane. I like

17:42

close. I like this the monosyllabic

17:45

approach that you pioneered as

17:48

a doctor.

17:49

FX is Atlanta returns for

17:51

its final season. paperboard. I'm

17:53

seeing you in a minute. The series time

17:55

magazine calls TV's greatest

17:58

surrealist comedy. I watch criminal

17:59

minds and I know when someone's up to something

18:02

with me. haven't

18:05

been eighteen four days. Damn. A

18:07

risk from weakness here. You

18:09

can't kidnap your own dad. I don't have time

18:11

to and it's like the word kid is in

18:13

it. FX is Atlanta. The final seat,

18:15

all new Thursdays on FX, stream on

18:17

Hulu.

18:25

Happy

18:25

time, people. Happy forty

18:27

fifth birthday tomorrow, Neil, Ivy.

18:29

Ivy is the code to the women's basketball team

18:32

at Notre Dame where she herself was a player.

18:34

In two thousand twenty, Ivy took over

18:37

from Moffett McGraw, whom she played for.

18:39

Ivy was on McGraw's national championship

18:41

team in two thousand one, and was in a

18:43

system to McGraw on the other Notre Dame national

18:46

champion in two thousand eighteen. Ivy's

18:48

team won twenty four and nine last year and made

18:50

the Sweet Sixteen. Ivey played

18:53

five years in the W NBA, and her

18:55

son Jaden was just the overall

18:57

number five pick in this year's NBA draft

18:59

by the Detroit Pistons out of Purdue. JAY

19:02

NYVI IS A SIX IV GUARD. HE WILL JOIN

19:04

THE two thousand twenty one OVERALL NUMBER

19:06

ONE FICK CADE CUNNINGHAM ON A BAD

19:08

team looking for a turnaround. Tony,

19:11

three of the five top picks in the draft

19:13

this year were the sons of professional basketball

19:16

players, the warriors who won the title

19:18

had four second generation

19:20

NBA players on it. Good luck to

19:22

everybody not the sayon of

19:24

a basketball family trying to make the league in

19:26

any meaningful way going forward. I'M

19:29

NOT SO HAPPY ANNIVERSARY GREETAY PACKERS,

19:32

AROUND THE STAY ten YEARS AGO. THE SEATTLE

19:34

SEHALKS WANT tightly contested Monday night

19:36

game over the packers on the last player

19:39

of regulation as rookie quarterback

19:41

Russell Wilson. He'd pass into the

19:43

end zone that official ultimately ruled

19:45

as a touchdown catch by Golden

19:47

Tate. The next morning, the league released

19:49

a statement admitting that replacement reps blew

19:51

an offensive pass interference goal

19:54

that should have negated that touchdown, but

19:56

the final score would nevertheless stand.

19:58

At some faint consolation,

19:59

the blown call appeared to be the last straw

20:02

for the league, and the NFL referee lockout

20:04

that had gone on since June was resolved

20:06

the next day. Yes.

20:09

I remember covering the lockout of the reps.

20:11

Force Sports Illustrated at the time talking to Ed

20:13

Hockey Lease, Scott Green, he's NFL reps.

20:15

They deserve more credit. They deserve more

20:18

credit. Now the human element is deeply

20:20

flawed, but at least they're not the

20:22

replacement guys. We should at least have

20:24

them meeting a certain standard and the NFL

20:26

realized it a little too late. Happy

20:30

trails to a home run for Delwyn Perez.

20:32

The third basement for the AAA Memphis

20:35

Red Birds crushed the ball to left last

20:37

night that appeared to be long gone. But

20:39

the wind unexpectedly knocked down on

20:41

the warning track for now. News of

20:43

this unfortunate development was late to reach

20:45

Perez, who continued his home run trot

20:47

around second base and even third before

20:50

he finally realized what had happened. Replay

20:52

showed that Perez had been so convinced he'd

20:54

hit it out and he watched the ball sorta

20:56

left before flipping his bat and starting his

20:58

trot. What makes this all endearings is

21:01

that Perez was able to laugh at himself. and

21:03

his next at bat, he delivered a two run single

21:05

as Memphis one six to one. Tony,

21:08

I imagine that that video is what you

21:10

looked like after you declared, I believe,

21:12

that Darko Milichich would be the greatest

21:15

draft pick out of LeBron

21:17

James and Carmelo Anthony. Yeah.

21:19

Just a little bit delayed on the wrong

21:21

on down there. Just a little.

21:23

Yeah. I I love the fact that

21:25

it's his teammates looking at him,

21:27

and then he has to finally turn around.

21:29

And then he just starts laughing at himself.

21:32

You know,

21:32

because, I mean, obviously, you would think

21:34

you think it's out. You're not gonna hotdog quite

21:36

like that if you think it's gonna come close

21:38

to the wall. Or for example, go 404

21:41

instead of 408 as we referenced

21:43

a little bit earlier. One omission,

21:46

the charges list Justin Herbert

21:48

as questionable for Sunday's game

21:50

against the jaguars. Fractured ribs

21:52

would make a person questionable. Let's go to

21:54

the beginning. Japan beat the United

21:56

States men's soccer team in friendly to

21:58

nothing, break it down for

21:59

us. This is really bad,

22:02

Tony. The US has always I

22:04

mean, not always, but the US now has

22:06

been leaning on talent. They've always had trouble in

22:08

the world cup. Now they have the talent. Not an

22:10

auspicious beginning to the whole we have talent

22:12

era. Justin Girl, Andrew, meanwhile, gave

22:14

up just two runs over six, but lost to the o's,

22:17

default to seventeen and four. This is your

22:19

boy. You surprised. Yeah. I

22:21

got I got this wrong. I thought he would

22:23

win the game. I mean, that is defined as quality

22:25

start. Maximum of two runs, minimum

22:28

of six innings.

22:29

I, you know, I thought he would. I'd still

22:31

take him. Andrei

22:32

Guadalupe says he will return to the warriors.

22:34

Is that significant? Well, he

22:36

said André Gonzalez did that if he's

22:38

on the court and like Jonathan Kaminga is

22:41

not something terrible has happened. So

22:43

at the very least, he is self aware about his role.

22:45

but number twenty Florida at number eleven

22:47

Tennessee tomorrow. Who do you got?

22:51

Florida is getting ten and a half. That's

22:53

the biggest number they've gotten against

22:55

Tennessee

22:56

in fifty years. In fifty

22:58

years. What can I tell you? I'm

23:01

taking the points. Last one, the winless

23:04

titans host, the winless Raiders on Sunday,

23:06

who gets your first win. Give

23:08

me the raiders. Give me the Park Filipino

23:10

running back. That's jacob down the raiders.

23:13

Please, make me look smart.

23:16

We're out of time. We'll try and do

23:18

better the next time. That's Sullivan shout

23:20

out. I'm Pablo Tore.

23:22

Please check out ESPN daily and debatable wherever

23:25

you get the good podcast. But for now,

23:26

enjoy

23:27

sports center. At

23:29

least I made it to the tunnel.