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Hello and welcome to python bites where

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we deliver python news and headlines

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directly to your earbuds this is episode

0:06

three hundred and sixty nine sixty

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nine recorded january twenty ninth twenty twenty

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four and i am brand knocking

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a michael kennedy. And

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this episode is sponsored by us so

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check out our courses at talk python

0:20

training and the complete by test course

0:22

and thanks to patreon supporters and really

0:25

everybody that just like spreads the love

0:27

and shares our our podcast with other

0:29

people thanks so much. The first item

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is gonna be granny and meet

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yes before we get to that i just

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wanna sort of set the stages you know

0:38

when you running python apps web apps in

0:41

production there's usually something that talks to the

0:43

web browsers. And then there's the part that

0:45

runs your python code right the part that

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talks to web browser is in next

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Apache caddy one of these things

0:52

that does ssl it has no

0:54

knowledge of python. What is behind

0:56

that step we've got micro whiskey

0:59

and we've got g unicorn

1:01

and those types of things right so

1:03

that's where your python code runs usually

1:05

run it'll create multiple of them

1:08

and both those two that i

1:10

named big fans of micro is

1:12

awesome super fast low memory usage

1:15

but only does wsgi does

1:17

no async stuff and

1:20

that's a huge drawback right it doesn't do

1:22

a sink doesn't allow you to like properly

1:24

scale async and wait to unicorn on the

1:26

other hand allows us uv a

1:28

corn workers inside there which

1:30

is kind of like one more chain

1:32

and not loop but it when you

1:34

deploy that way you can do a

1:37

sink and wait which is awesome but

1:39

there's this new ish. Thing

1:41

come along called grainy and from

1:43

the image framework which is a

1:45

new i thought a web framework

1:47

this is a rust based a

1:49

server for python applications so a

1:52

rust. Version of micro

1:54

whiskey or g unicorn yeah cool

1:56

that's kinda cool it has one

1:58

point five thousand. on stars on GitHub,

2:00

been coming along for a while, and

2:04

it's created by a guy

2:06

named Giovanni, I believe. And

2:09

Giovanni says, well, why I build

2:11

this thing? Couple of reasons. It's

2:14

a correct HTTP implementation supporting

2:16

version one, two and working

2:18

on HTTP three, which is

2:21

awesome. It avoids the G

2:23

unicorn, UVA corn, HTTP tools,

2:25

tendency composition when deploying in

2:28

production. So this natively supports

2:30

async and await, like right in

2:32

it, along with WSGI. So

2:35

whatever kind of app you've created, you can just

2:38

run it right there in this thing without chaining

2:40

stuff together. And one of the things that's nice

2:42

about it is it's not a ton faster, but

2:44

it's way more stable. There's less

2:47

jitter in its performance profile, which I

2:49

think is super cool. I'll talk about

2:51

that in a second. But yeah, it

2:53

has HTTP one and two, excellent. Supports

2:55

HTTPS and web sockets directly. I'm not

2:57

gonna send HTTPS traffic to it. I'm

2:59

just using for now, nginx, whatever.

3:01

Also supports RSTI, which is a Rust

3:04

server gateway interface, I guess, like ASGI

3:06

and WSGI. So it does all the

3:08

Python things, plus it has a Rust

3:10

direct version if that was the way

3:12

you went down it. And it's super

3:15

easy to run. But from

3:17

the performance perspective, you look, it'll compare it

3:19

down here to, let's

3:22

see, against UVA corn and

3:24

hypercord is another one I should

3:26

have mentioned. That's like a parallel

3:29

to UVA corn plus unicorn. But

3:31

that one I think handles it all directly from

3:33

Philip Jones, which is great. But if you look

3:35

at, so let's just say like the ASGI get,

3:38

it says it'll do numbers please, 1.3

3:40

million requests at, okay,

3:45

that's just totally done many things. It could be over

3:47

three weeks. 85, 86,000 requests per second. Or

3:51

maybe this one's a little bit better. A

3:54

different get for 94,000. Compare

3:56

that against the

3:58

UVA corn one, which is. nineteen thousand

4:00

versus ninety four thousand or the

4:03

hyper coordinate twelve thousand versus ninety four

4:05

thousand which is great but if you

4:07

look at the variation like response time

4:10

on let's say uv acorn

4:12

is on average eight point seven

4:14

milliseconds that's really good but the

4:17

max is three hundred and twenty

4:19

milliseconds whereas if you look at

4:21

this one it's

4:23

two point seven but the max is only eight

4:25

point six right so that that variability or jitter

4:27

or I don't have a however the heck you

4:29

say it is way more stable and you

4:32

just kind of look across the board like another example

4:34

six versus seventy and so on so I thought that

4:36

was pretty cool so I switched if you come over

4:38

here Brian the Python bytes this is running on

4:41

granny in right now over my Docker cluster for

4:43

the moment so I just thought I'd see

4:45

how it goes and it's been going perfectly from

4:48

what I can tell so so it's pretty easy

4:50

to switch then yeah I mean all you

4:52

got to do is pip install granny in and

4:54

then change the start command no matter

4:56

however you run if you're running in the system

4:58

D on like a VM you change

5:00

the system D exact command if you

5:03

do it in Docker you just change

5:05

the entry point man for a micro

5:07

whiskey this or G unicorn that too

5:09

it's basically just another startup command yeah

5:11

okay interesting cool indeed indeed one thing

5:14

I did want to add for people

5:16

who are considering this I gotta

5:18

move this over so one thing

5:20

it doesn't you can't set it up so

5:23

it'll do logging but it doesn't do like

5:25

easy logging out of the box so I

5:27

actually was messing around like maybe I should

5:29

just do my own logging if we're

5:31

not for my app started

5:33

up hey somebody clicked this button but

5:35

just request response login which is pretty

5:37

common so I actually ended up playing

5:39

with it and using logguru to come

5:41

up with a color-coded added some middleware

5:43

that came up with color-coded request response

5:45

logging that does all sorts of cool

5:48

stuff like see how some of the

5:50

sizes in this log are red and

5:52

some are white if it's

5:54

like over 500 K in the request

5:56

size then it was it read or

5:58

if the response time slow it'll

6:00

tell her color like yellow if it

6:02

gets really slow it'll color it red

6:04

or it's a 400 or 500 code

6:06

error it'll color that part of the

6:08

request red or you know so you

6:10

can like look right at right away

6:12

and see so I've decided doing your

6:15

own logguru request response stuff is pretty

6:17

excellent actually so that's a kind of

6:19

a cool consequence of playing around with

6:21

this as well cool so is it

6:23

like that your use of logguru that

6:25

a custom thing where you you look

6:27

at the response times and color it

6:29

differently or something yeah exactly exactly like it'd

6:31

be easy enough to just go print this format

6:33

the code is this the URL is that but

6:35

I said it would be a lot more useful

6:38

if it was color-coded and

6:40

meant stuff right like if it's a 404 it

6:42

should be a different color than if it's a

6:44

200 or if it's a

6:46

redirect it should be a different color if it's really

6:48

really slow if it's you see these times

6:51

like 10 milliseconds 9 milliseconds 8 milliseconds 12

6:53

milliseconds if that was a second maybe that's

6:55

a problem color that a different color and

6:57

I did that by installing middleware and this

7:00

is pyramid but it could

7:02

also be whatever right you do some fast

7:04

API or whatever it just says begin the

7:06

request do something pass it

7:08

down to the framework and then end

7:11

the request and just times it and

7:13

logs it and colors it there okay

7:15

neat yep indeed indeed well

7:19

I I also want to talk about something

7:21

new and old at the same time so

7:23

nice pytest is been

7:25

around for a while but pytest 8 is brand

7:28

new so pytest 8 just came

7:30

out this weekend I'm super excited to start

7:32

running with it actually I've already started running

7:34

with it I we're

7:37

gonna put in the show

7:39

notes I put a highlighted blog post

7:41

of just pytest 8 is here and

7:43

links to the change the full changelog

7:46

but the what they did was they

7:48

spread out if people are running seven

7:50

like old 7x pytest

7:53

which that's what I was

7:55

using before the change looks

7:57

a little little just takes a

7:59

little bit it to parse because they spread it along

8:02

the RC1, RC2, and the final 8.0

8:05

release. The changes are all

8:07

there. So I pulled the highlights out. So

8:10

the thing I'm really excited, there's two things

8:12

I'm really excited about. One is when

8:15

you had an exception, that would

8:17

just be a red block of

8:19

exception stuff. And there's a

8:21

whole bunch of cool differences. So there's improved

8:25

diffs when you fail an exception,

8:28

especially if you do dash VV, so

8:30

very verbose or verbose verbose, however

8:32

you want to think about that.

8:34

But you get a colored diff

8:36

instead of the big chunk of

8:39

red. There's also... Back to this

8:41

color thing, right? Yeah, it's also

8:43

more colors. Normal, like

8:45

syntax highlighting, we're used to syntax

8:48

highlighted code. So there's error reports

8:50

are now syntax highlighted. And

8:53

there's the different sections of

8:55

the error report are separated

8:57

better. And then also,

9:00

there's better support

9:02

for standard library containers for

9:05

diffing. There was usually, it was a

9:07

pretty good tuple diff, for

9:09

instance, but if you had big lists, it

9:11

was a little bit hard to read, it's

9:13

a little bit better now. And then more

9:16

comprehensive assertory writes for other comparisons,

9:18

not just equal, but things like

9:21

not equal, less than equal, other

9:24

comparisons. So that's really cool.

9:28

Help people debug their code. That's super

9:30

nice, because you want to be able to say, are

9:32

these two things the same and not write code around?

9:34

How do you do that, right? Yeah.

9:37

And also, comparisons like less than or

9:39

less than or equal, it's really nice

9:41

for the PyTest to go out and

9:44

really tell you why that check failed,

9:46

and highlight the part of your data

9:48

that where it failed. So really, really

9:50

fun to see that. There's

9:53

the thing that the next thing I

9:55

wanted to talk about for PyTest 8

9:58

was probably pretty obscure

10:00

for people that are not using X

10:02

fail. So X fail is a way to

10:04

say, um, I expect

10:06

this test to fail. And for a

10:09

lot of people, why would you expect

10:11

it to fail? Uh, for, but for

10:13

large organizations, it's pretty common to file

10:15

a defect and you don't have

10:17

control over it. So you can't just go

10:20

fix it. Somebody else is responsible for fixing

10:22

it. So that's how we use it. We,

10:24

and I Mark, uh, Mark a test as

10:27

failing as expected to fail and give it

10:29

a defect number and then, uh, and

10:32

then when, uh, when it, and that's

10:34

not new. Um, but if it,

10:36

if it passes, there's, there's decisions on how

10:38

to make it X pass or

10:40

what to deal with, do with if an

10:42

X failed passes. Um, I've talked

10:44

about that much, a bunch on the other

10:46

podcast. However, um, the change for

10:49

Pytest eight is, uh, that

10:51

with X fails, the traceback never showed

10:53

up, it didn't used to. So the

10:55

change is now, if you, there's a

10:57

way to turn that on with, uh,

10:59

with the dash R command, you can turn on,

11:01

uh, X fail tracebacks.

11:03

So that's really nice for, uh, CI

11:06

test runs to be able to see

11:08

what the failure was in CI and

11:10

not have to try to rerun it

11:12

again. So really cool. Uh,

11:14

excited about that. There's lots

11:16

more things. So check out the, uh,

11:18

change log. Um, the reason why they

11:20

bumped to eight, I think is because

11:22

there was a bunch of, uh, they

11:24

changed the way collection works and,

11:26

um, and that change, that

11:28

behavior change of backwards compatibility

11:30

made it so that it made sense to bump

11:32

the, the, the number. I think that's the reason

11:35

I'm not sure. Um, but also it's

11:37

good to bump the number every once in a while

11:39

so that we have, uh, that so that you can

11:41

deal with that deprecations, you can get rid of the

11:43

code that you were meaning to get rid of. Uh,

11:45

so I encourage people to run

11:47

Pytest eight and check it out and turn

11:49

on, um, you know, turn on, uh, the

11:52

full strict mode and everything so that you

11:54

know, if, uh, if anything breaks, you can

11:56

roll back if you need to. Awesome.

12:00

Christmas for you, right? A major

12:03

version release. Yeah, and it

12:05

also made me, when I was looking at this, made

12:07

me realize that I think I need to add more

12:09

color to my blog. It's just black and white and

12:12

it's not very fun, so I have to add

12:14

more color. Color's always fun. I

12:16

mean, that's the theme of this episode. Last

12:18

week it was let's just ship announced open

12:20

source projects we're releasing. This is like color

12:22

episode. The color episode, yeah. Or

12:25

the midnight audience puts it out there. It's

12:27

a readability episode. Very good.

12:30

Indeed. Well, let's

12:32

harken back to a couple of things

12:35

on my side here. So I talked about this

12:37

Docker work that I've been doing. That also

12:39

kind of led me to the Grannion stuff and

12:41

playing with that as well. I also forgot to

12:43

give a quick shout out to the people,

12:45

like both Andy Shapiro and Bill Crook pointed out,

12:48

said, hey you should check out Grannion. So

12:50

when I give them credit for sending that in,

12:52

thank you. But as I was

12:54

doing all these Docker things, you

12:57

know when you're in an unusual or an

13:00

unfamiliar, uncomfortable space compared to what you

13:02

normally do? Like right now my

13:04

little browser in this episode has maybe nine tabs and

13:06

that's like kind of a lot. But when I was

13:08

doing the Docker stuff, I'd have 30, 40, 50 tabs

13:10

and then I would close

13:13

30 of them because I saw some problems. It

13:16

was just tabs everywhere. So it was just like exploring

13:18

stuff all over the place. Right? Like wow, I must

13:20

not know what I'm doing right now. True.

13:24

But you know that's how you get to where you know what's

13:26

going on. Along that, I would be like,

13:28

oh people talk about, oh my gosh, totally giving

13:30

up on doing this. I'm using Orbstack or Podman

13:32

or if they support this OS. I'm like, what

13:35

are these things? So I just want to go

13:37

through a host of Docker goodies

13:39

that I think people will enjoy. Not exactly

13:41

Python specific but certainly relevant if you're doing

13:43

Python in any form of containers. Right? So

13:46

the first one of three, there's actually more,

13:48

Brian. I'm not going to come from all

13:50

here. I'm saving some for later because it's

13:52

just, it'll be a little out of control

13:55

at that point. So Orbstack, if you use

13:57

Docker and you use Docker on Mac or

13:59

Windows to Typically what you do is you

14:01

get Docker desktop, right? So that

14:03

gives you the Docker commands that allows you

14:05

to run Docker locally. I think

14:07

it might use, maybe use VirtualBox

14:09

or something on Mac and it uses probably

14:12

Windows Subsystem for Linux on Windows. But

14:14

you can run Linux containers on

14:16

top of some hidden thing of

14:19

Linux, right? Yeah. So

14:21

Orbstack is kind of that. And they say,

14:23

say goodbye to slow and clunky containers and

14:25

VMs. It's a light and

14:27

easy way to run Docker containers and Linux

14:30

on one machine, right? So basically

14:33

gives you a nice UI around it. It

14:36

is 100% compatible with Docker. So you

14:38

could say Docker run, Docker exec, Docker

14:40

compose up or whatever it is you

14:42

say. And instead of using

14:44

the Docker engine, it'll use this Orbstack

14:46

engine, which is pretty neat. It

14:49

also has its own CLI if you

14:51

want to directly work with it. But

14:54

basically, it's kind of a one open

14:56

source and two more lightweight. They've got

14:58

a bunch of cool commands that they show

15:00

down here somewhere. Speed,

15:03

you're going to open it says

15:05

open edX. I guess that's probably

15:07

the Docker compose setup

15:10

for edX. I'm going

15:12

to provision a development environment for

15:14

it. It's pretty long still, because I guess that's a

15:16

beast of an app. 17

15:18

minutes on Orbstack, but 45 minutes on Docker

15:20

desktop to build post hog, whatever that

15:23

is. It's like a quarter or

15:25

a third of the time it uses.

15:27

If you're on a laptop, it uses like less than

15:29

25% of the battery as well. Or

15:32

depends if you're using super based or

15:34

Kubernetes or whatever, right? But pretty cool,

15:36

right? Yeah. Yeah.

15:39

And oh, another thing I think, I think let me look.

15:41

Yes, this is a big go you and I were just

15:43

talking about this before we press record. It says you can

15:45

run Linux machines without a fuss. So one of the things

15:47

I can do is I can go to like parallels. And

15:51

I can run Linux, Ubuntu or

15:53

whatever on my Mac, my M2

15:56

mini, my M2 pro mini. How are those words

15:58

to go together? Whatever order. makes the

16:00

right sense there. I can run them, but

16:02

I can only run the ARM64 versions because

16:05

I only have an ARM64 processor. But

16:09

this one allows you to

16:11

run Intel machines on Apple

16:13

Silicon with Rosetta, which allows

16:15

you then to run Intel-based

16:17

Docker images and basically be

16:20

closer to what your production environment is if you're

16:22

using Apple Silicon. So that's also a nice feature

16:24

of this. That's pretty cool. Yeah, it does cost

16:26

money if you're a company, but it has a

16:29

free version. If you're just a person. So,

16:32

not an endorsement, but I thought people might

16:34

find this to be pretty useful. It looks

16:36

pretty cool. Next one, Podman. Podman

16:38

is the best free and open

16:40

source container tools. So you can

16:42

manage Docker containers, pods, and that

16:44

term I believe comes from Kubernetes,

16:46

like the unit of execution in

16:49

Kubernetes is called a pod. And

16:51

images with Podman. So yeah, it

16:53

lets you seamlessly work with containers

16:55

and Kubernetes from your local environment. So this

16:57

is also really cool. A lot of people

16:59

are doing interesting stuff. GitHub

17:01

Action plugins, it's got a Visual

17:04

Studio Code plugin and

17:06

different things. And then the third one,

17:08

actually 3.5, because

17:10

it kind of is too, is this is

17:12

pretty interesting. So one of the things that

17:14

kind of is inspiring once you get all

17:16

this Docker stuff going is like, okay, well,

17:18

if that open source big complicated thing and

17:20

some technology I didn't know how to run,

17:22

like PHP or whatever, but if it has

17:25

a Docker container or a Docker composed set

17:27

of containers, I can run it. All I

17:29

gotta do is just tell Docker to update

17:31

it when there's a new one and just

17:33

run it. That's super easy to do, right?

17:35

So there's this, like taking that to kind

17:37

of the extreme is there's this thing called

17:39

Casa OS. Have you heard of this? No.

17:42

I need it, but it has 20,000 GitHub stars, which

17:44

is pretty cool. They call it

17:46

your personal cloud operating system, community-based

17:48

open source software focused on delivering

17:50

simple personal cloud experience around the

17:52

Docker ecosystem. So basically, if there's

17:54

a thing that runs Docker, this

17:56

is like an OS for running

17:59

in a. platform for running all

18:01

that. So it gives you a UI

18:03

and into this OS that they

18:05

give you. And it says, look, you can

18:07

collect all your precious data. I don't like

18:09

tie together Google Drive, Dropbox, iCloud,

18:12

OneDrive, etc, etc. hard drives and everything

18:14

into just one drive view. And then

18:16

you can just access it and like

18:18

map that drive over to your TV

18:21

or your computer or whatever.

18:24

There's somewhere in here where they've got all

18:27

these apps that you can go, just grab

18:29

and install supports. A lot

18:31

of them are unfamiliar to me because I

18:33

haven't done this enough. But like couch potato,

18:35

duck DNS, photo prism, and they just plug

18:38

into this thing. This is pretty interesting, right?

18:40

I think. Yeah, you think, right? Yeah. I

18:42

don't know what I would do with it.

18:44

But you know, yeah. So one

18:46

of the things that I think this is sort

18:49

of coming out of is they have this thing

18:51

called Zimma Cube, which instead of running all your

18:53

stuff on the internet, this is kind

18:56

of like a really fancy NAS, okay, network

18:58

attached storage, but it also runs Docker

19:00

and all these things. So it says you can

19:02

have up to 164 terabytes of SSD. But then

19:04

it also runs all of

19:08

these things. And this is on Kickstarter. And

19:10

it was already funded at around 1.1 million

19:12

US, which

19:14

is a lot apparently. So this

19:16

is kind of the intended

19:19

destination for that. But I think you can

19:21

run it anywhere. So pretty cool, right? Yeah,

19:23

I mean, some people think over a million

19:25

dollars is a lot. I don't, you know,

19:28

chum change, but you know, yeah. I

19:32

don't think this thing is shipped yet. I think it's in development

19:35

still now that their Kickstarter ended. But

19:37

yeah, so there's a whole bunch of

19:39

different fun things. So orb, orb stack,

19:42

pod man, Casa and Zimma cube. Okay,

19:44

so I have a question about the

19:46

orb stack. Is that

19:48

that doesn't generate Docker images though, does

19:50

it? I mean, I have to have

19:52

orb stack stuff on the server as well,

19:54

right? No, it will manage

19:57

it is a transparent.

20:00

API or CLI to the Docker CLI.

20:03

Okay. So, so if you just install

20:05

this, then you can go to your

20:07

command line and type Docker build, whatever,

20:09

you know, download and do all the

20:11

things. But then when you ship, ship

20:13

it to production, you could have real

20:15

Docker there. Okay. Okay. Right. I didn't

20:17

understand. More like it's more, I think

20:19

it's mostly around kind of, yeah, it's

20:22

mostly on the desktop side of things.

20:24

So it's like a simpler, lighter way to

20:26

do desktop stuff. Possibly you could run it

20:28

on your own. Like I said, it

20:31

does have its own CLI for doing

20:33

its things its way, but I think

20:35

people will just use it as a

20:37

Docker desktop alternative. Yeah. It looks like

20:40

it's the, the, the business and commercial

20:42

use pricing is slightly cheaper than Docker

20:44

desktop right now. So there's benefit there.

20:47

That's right. I didn't remember that Docker

20:49

had gone commercial on that side as

20:51

well. So that makes them

20:53

more comparable, right? As opposed to, yeah, there's this

20:55

other free thing. It's not terrible though. I mean,

20:57

like I just, we just had to re-up our

21:00

Docker at work and it's

21:02

what we, I think I paid 300 bucks

21:04

for five seeds per year. That's not bad. Yeah,

21:06

that's not bad. Not when it's not your money

21:08

is fine. It's not my money. You're

21:11

here to spend not your money. Yeah. Um,

21:14

so, uh, yeah, I

21:16

love not your money spending, but

21:19

anyway, pretty cool. Uh, I'll look forward to

21:21

checking that out. I actually think it'd be

21:23

fun to have one of those Zima cubes.

21:26

I do too. I would really consider it again. Wouldn't

21:28

it be awesome to just have all those cool apps

21:30

running plus, you know, a hundred terabytes of

21:32

storage. Yeah. So it's like the cloud, but

21:34

it's at home. So it's just topped in.

21:39

It's more like fog. It's

21:41

way lower down. It doesn't fog.

21:44

It's personal, personal cloud fog.

21:48

That's nice. Okay, cool. Um,

21:51

okay. So that's a, that's a good news.

21:53

Uh, and I, the next step, I don't

21:55

know if this is good news or bad

21:57

news. It depends on your perspective. So I'd

22:00

like to talk about GitHub

22:03

Copilot and other assisted

22:05

AI stuff. So Visual

22:09

Studio Magazine came out with

22:11

this article called New GitHub

22:13

Copilot Research Finds Downward Pressure

22:16

on Code Quality. So

22:19

the question really was kind of if

22:21

I'm using code coding

22:23

with Copilot, if I'm using

22:27

Copilot to help me write some stuff,

22:29

is the Copilot kind of like having

22:31

a junior

22:34

developer? Is

22:37

it more intern or is it more senior dev? Yeah,

22:39

is it more intern or more senior dev? And

22:42

so the result

22:45

was, or their question was,

22:47

is it more senior dev or more akin to

22:49

just the just jointed work of a

22:51

short term contractor? Which I thought that

22:53

was appropriate because a

22:56

contractor might be very skilled, but they

22:58

don't really care about, they might not

23:00

care about maintenance too much. Yeah, exactly.

23:03

So yeah, the technical debt is not a problem

23:05

when you're done next week. Yeah, and you don't

23:07

have to, yeah. One

23:10

of the best ways to not deal with legacy

23:12

code is to shift, switch jobs. Anyway,

23:16

the answer is summarized

23:18

of this white paper

23:20

is summarized by,

23:23

we find disconcerting trends

23:26

for maintainability. Code churn, which is

23:28

the percentage of lines that are

23:31

reverted or updated less than

23:33

two weeks after being authored, is projected to

23:35

double in 2024 as compared to 2021 pre-AI

23:40

baseline. We further find that the

23:42

percentage of added code and copy

23:45

pasted code is increasing in

23:47

proportion to updated, deleted, and

23:50

moved code. In this

23:52

regard, AI generated code resembles

23:54

an iterant contributor prone to

23:56

violating the dryness that don't

23:59

really work. repeat yourself of the

24:01

repositories visited. So, this isn't that

24:03

surprising to me, but it's interesting

24:05

that there was a study done

24:07

by Get Clear. Also

24:10

interesting that it was printed

24:12

in Visual Studio Magazine, but

24:15

I guess the magazine probably

24:17

doesn't have any ties to

24:20

Microsoft or

24:22

GitHub. But anyway, interesting. So,

24:27

Bart out in the audience has a different

24:29

analogy I'd like to adapt. This is

24:31

not Junior or Senior, it's a pair that recycles

24:33

what it found on the web. So, I'm thinking

24:35

more snack overflow copy and paste action type of

24:37

stuff here. And Grant says, I

24:40

read this to you, the research makes

24:42

sense, sounds right, but Co-Pilot has benefits

24:44

to senior devs like applying good patterns

24:46

faster. Yeah, it's pretty interesting. There

24:50

was some comment in the article that

24:53

essentially stuff still got done

24:55

faster, or at

24:57

least got to something working

24:59

faster. It's just

25:02

that people often go back later

25:04

and modify and refactor the code.

25:06

And that's not necessarily bad, but

25:08

you know. I get the sense

25:10

that Co-Pilot is very focused on

25:13

what prompt did you give me? I'm

25:15

going to do that. Rather than I

25:17

understand what your entire project is, I've

25:19

seen all 200 files, I've thought that

25:21

through. Now, in that context, the

25:24

answer to your question is X rather than

25:26

Y. I don't think it does that. I

25:28

think it would be a very high level

25:30

of token usage that

25:32

it would have to take into account. I think

25:34

it probably just goes like, all right, well, you

25:37

asked me a sentence, here's the answer Python. Yeah,

25:39

I actually want to play with it more. I

25:41

haven't really played with Co-Pilot too much. It's not

25:43

something I can use at work, but on personal

25:45

projects, I think it'd be fun to use it

25:47

more. But the... We're

25:51

still... I mean, it seems like, you

25:53

know, it seems like ChatGPT is kind

25:55

of old now and Co-Pilot is like

25:57

really old, but really, we're really... really

26:00

just starting to use these tools in development,

26:02

like they said pre 2021. So it's still

26:05

only a couple of years that we have

26:08

under our belt working with these things. And

26:11

I think that the tools can get

26:13

better. And I'm looking forward to being

26:15

able to... I both worry about

26:18

the developers that are going to lose jobs

26:20

and stuff because of this, but I also,

26:22

I think that the tools will probably get

26:24

better. Like you said, if it can look

26:27

at your entire project and say, hey, in

26:30

this context, this is the right

26:32

call. You're repeating something. You already

26:35

implemented that. Let's call this function

26:37

instead. That would be great. And

26:39

also if we could have AI

26:41

tools to help maybe keep

26:44

a style similar or just a

26:46

general philosophy similar around a project,

26:49

I think there's room for that

26:52

once it gets there. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised

26:54

to see that happen. All right.

26:56

Extra time. Extra, extra.

26:58

Oh, yeah. So my extras

27:00

are like, did you know

27:02

that PyTest 8 is out? Pip

27:05

install dash u. Pip install dash

27:08

u. But also if PyTest

27:11

is one of those things that you've always

27:13

been thinking about doing, head

27:15

on over to courses.pythontest.com

27:18

and you can learn it really fast using

27:21

a course or you can grab the book,

27:23

of course. Yeah, excellent. Yeah, that's

27:25

very exciting. Do you have any extras? I

27:28

do have a couple things. I want to quickly

27:30

give a shout out to one. This has

27:32

been around for plenty long, although it's changed

27:34

behind the scenes, not in a way, any

27:36

way, really necessarily noticed, but it has. And

27:38

that's just, I want to encourage people to

27:41

join our newsletter. If you go to Python

27:43

by set of them right below the hero

27:45

image, there's a thing that says newsletter. If

27:47

you go to newsletter, you go over there,

27:49

become a friend of the show, put your

27:51

information in there. This is actually a revamp

27:53

as part of my work that I did

27:55

with List Monk, the private self-hosted

27:57

email stuff moving away from me.

28:00

and others. We talked about that last week, two weeks

28:02

ago, some number of weeks ago. And that

28:05

means it doesn't go anywhere. We don't share

28:07

it with anyone, but Brian and I are

28:09

planning some fun stuff and trying to do

28:11

more with newsletters and reaching out and connecting

28:13

with you all. So we would

28:15

love for you to go to Python by

28:17

SutterM, click on newsletter and put your information

28:19

in there. We won't share it, but we'll

28:22

try to make it worth your while. But

28:24

we also haven't emailed a lot on it

28:26

yet in the past. So when

28:28

we start using it, don't think that we bought

28:31

your name off some list. It's that we're

28:33

just starting to use it more. Yes, absolutely.

28:35

It drives me crazy when people mark. They'll

28:37

come sign up for your newsletter and then

28:39

they'll mark it as spam, which means other

28:42

people have a harder time getting it. It's

28:44

like you hyped your information into there and

28:46

then you marked just, it doesn't unsubscribe. Just

28:48

please use the unsubscribe. Just use the unsubscribe.

28:51

Yeah, I actually wrote a ton of software.

28:53

I have a whole separate Docker thing running

28:55

that monitors for people marking stuff as spam

28:57

because there's ways that you can receive hooks

28:59

about that information and automatically unsubscribe

29:01

people if they do that, even if they don't

29:03

unsubscribe. But it's kind of a sense that damage

29:05

is still done a little bit. Email is a

29:07

complete nightmare. All right, let's get away from email

29:09

because it makes me upset. All right, so

29:13

pedantic. Pedantic's awesome. Sydney

29:15

Runkle, who works the

29:18

pedantic company, was on

29:20

Talk Python recently released a

29:23

brand new version, version 2.6.0.

29:25

And Samuel Colvin said this

29:27

is probably the biggest, most

29:29

important release since 2.0. If

29:31

you scroll through the release

29:33

notes for pedantic 2.6, there

29:35

is a lot going on

29:38

here. And even just

29:40

the new contributors is massive. But apparently

29:42

a ton of speed up, some other

29:44

things going on here that you can

29:46

check out. If you're

29:48

using pedantic, everything is excellent. Just

29:51

no more Python 3.7 because we've already had

29:55

the thanks and goodbye to Python

29:57

3.7. We're on to 3.8 as the

29:59

minimum reasonable Python these days. Cool though, huh?

30:01

Yeah, very cool. A lot of

30:03

contributors. There's a lot going on here. It's

30:06

a popular library. If we go over here and

30:08

we see, okay, how many things depend on it,

30:10

whereas the used

30:12

by 318,000 projects. It

30:15

lists one, two, three, four, five. It

30:17

lists like six, and it says plus, as in there's more,

30:19

it says plus 317,946. That's

30:22

not really representative, but okay.

30:25

I understand the UI. Anyway, yeah, it's used by

30:27

a lot of people. Used

30:29

by more projects than there's stars. Some

30:32

people are using it and don't like it apparently. Yeah,

30:34

come on. Star this up, people. The

30:37

only reason you don't see a star

30:39

for me is I'm not logged in.

30:41

All right, and finally, I wrote a

30:43

new essay called Use Custom Search Engines

30:45

Way More. This is not ducked up

30:47

Go versus Google versus Bing, but rather,

30:49

if you use a proper browser like

30:51

Vivaldi or Firefox or even Chrome, though.

30:54

Anyway, you can go and set custom search engines for

30:56

all sorts of cool stuff. One I

30:59

set was PyPI, Brian. If I go to my

31:01

address bar, I don't know if I've done it

31:03

on my streaming one here. Let me see. No,

31:06

only my proper one. This is like

31:08

a separate user account over here, but

31:10

I could go and just type PyPI

31:13

space Pytest and it will search using

31:15

PyPI.org's search results directly for Pytest or

31:17

whatever it is you typed there. I

31:20

didn't know you could do this. It

31:22

is awesome. If you want to search

31:24

Unsplash for stock

31:27

photos, just type U space and you type

31:29

the thing or S O space.

31:31

You directly search on Stack Overflow. Instead of

31:33

searching for it, oh, I was

31:35

looking for Stack Overflow. You scroll through

31:37

until you find the result and you

31:39

go over. You're just like boom, just

31:41

like a super short or GH for

31:43

GitHub. Just search only repositories, not users

31:46

or whatever you want to type in.

31:48

Incredibly easy. That's my essay, my quick

31:50

little. That's not built in already.

31:52

You have to, well, it's supported, but you

31:54

have to configure it on your browser. You

31:56

have to type. Yeah, you have to type

31:59

basically. You go to

32:01

Vivaldi search and then you find, just go

32:03

enter a new search engine, or there's ways

32:05

to do it in Firefox, there's a way

32:07

to do it in Chrome, they're all different.

32:09

But then you just figure out, if you

32:11

just search a site, like if you search

32:13

Stack Overflow, you'll see it's stackoverflow.com/search question mark

32:15

Q equals some string, and so you just

32:17

put percent S there and say that to

32:19

the search engine. Okay, I think I'll do

32:21

a PB for Python bytes. Oh,

32:24

you know what? I'm feeling, feeling

32:26

like we could totally do this.

32:29

I mean, the URL's right up there. Yeah. Q

32:32

equals that, yeah, why not? Just give one

32:34

step, beautiful. Anyway, that's my set of extras.

32:36

Very cool, thanks. Well,

32:38

how about funny stuff? This one's

32:40

quick and short. Okay. It's a

32:43

picture, but you don't need to know anything

32:45

about the picture. It's just a lawyer arguing

32:47

a case. Hey, Brian, says, your honor, my

32:49

client didn't know they were pushing to the

32:51

main branch. That's funny. Yeah,

32:53

that's it. Didn't know I pushed to

32:55

the main branch. This is my defense.

32:58

I'm sorry I took down the website during

33:00

Black Friday. I thought it was my

33:02

fork. That's

33:05

funny. Yeah, how often have you like, well,

33:07

I guess you don't do this too much,

33:09

but it's a three-day weekend. I wanna make

33:11

sure that I have my stuff pushed to

33:13

the central repo, so push,

33:15

but- You're working at home, right? You wanna

33:18

like, think it back up or whatever. Yeah,

33:20

but make sure you're on a branch. So,

33:24

okay, we were talking about junior versus

33:26

senior a little bit on AI stuff.

33:28

So I wanted to share a little

33:30

picture also of, this

33:32

is, I saw this on Mastodon.

33:36

Junior versus senior developer. Junior,

33:39

it's a timeline thing. So

33:41

the junior developer working on project encompasses

33:44

the entire time. Senior developer finding the

33:46

motivation to start takes up like 90%,

33:48

80% of the time, and

33:51

then actually doing it at the end, and

33:53

the total time is equal. Yeah,

33:57

that's amazing. I would have altered it to make

33:59

the senior. like the total time is like

34:01

a little bit less. It's just, um, yeah.

34:03

Yeah. And the junior needs a little bit

34:05

of finding the motivation, but just a tiny

34:08

bit. It's

34:10

still a good one. Cool.

34:13

Well, um, thanks again for oops.

34:15

Uh, such a great episode. Good to talk to

34:18

you this week. It's good to have everybody in

34:20

the, the showing up for the live show. Thank

34:22

you very much. If you want to,

34:24

what's that link again? If you, if people want

34:27

to go watch the live show, um, they

34:29

can buy the mindset of M slash live. Yeah.

34:31

All right. Cool. Plus if you just go

34:33

to Python bytes.fm, it's right at the top.

34:38

Thanks a lot. We make it easy. We make it easy for

34:40

people. Yeah. All right. See you next

34:42

week. Bye.