0:00

Hello and welcome to Python Bites where

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we deliver Python news and headlines directly to

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your earbuds. This is episode 372

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recorded February 20th 2024

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and I'm Michael Kennedy and I'm Brian

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Aken this episode is brought to you

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by Scout APM Super psyched

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you more about them later But please check them

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out the link is in the podcast player show

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notes They're on the website if you are one

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of the lucky ones Brian who is attending this

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live They got here by

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going to Python by setup him slash live

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got notified of in this this comes on when

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those of you are just listening and we super appreciate

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that anyway, so how are we listening? Thank you. Thank

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you Connect with us

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over on mastodon ron Faucet on at

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Brian Aken at m Kennedy at and

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at python bites Brian before we jump

0:51

into the news and before I forget

0:53

I just want to make a quick

0:55

announcement. I will be a PyCon Philippines

0:59

Starting I leave tomorrow at I fly

1:02

from Portland to San Francisco at

1:04

8 p.m And then I

1:06

leave San Francisco at midnight So who knows what

1:08

I'm what state I'm gonna be in but I'm

1:10

pretty sure with the time zone James and the

1:12

travels and all this There's not gonna be a

1:14

Python bites next week So we're gonna be probably

1:16

skipping next week, which is a good chance for people to catch

1:19

up if they caught they fell behind Yeah,

1:21

and also I'm jealous and I hope you have

1:23

a great time. Thank you very much. I'm gonna

1:25

have a great time Worked

1:27

as was writing the keynote

1:29

speech yesterday and it's gonna be good.

1:31

It's coming together nicely So it's always nerve-wracking. I

1:33

don't know how what is your what is your

1:36

way of working on? Ox and stuff

1:38

like I I want to be prepared and I'm

1:40

the kind of person that would get prepared a

1:42

month or two months early But then if I

1:44

write the stuff and then put it away and

1:46

then come back to it I've kind of lost

1:48

the inspiration and the nuances and the details so

1:50

I don't want to write it too soon But

1:52

I also don't want to wait till last minute.

1:54

So there's this weird weird trade-off I feel I

1:56

the mostly I try I usually try to cover

1:58

too much stuff and So I

2:00

try to hear it down and then yeah,

2:03

I practice the heck out of it the

2:05

ones worth some some talks I like him

2:07

fiddling with the slides too much until like

2:09

five minutes beforehand and that goes terribly So

2:12

I yeah, I like to do

2:14

it early in practice. All right. Well over to

2:16

you. I know you have a big announcement

2:19

Yeah, you are. Okay, am

2:22

I am I first? Yeah,

2:24

so I'm pretty excited the

2:26

folks at astral including

2:28

Charlie Marsh and others have

2:30

released UV a Python packaging

2:33

It's Python packaging and rust

2:35

and it's it's not

2:37

another packaging tool It

2:40

is the Python end so like

2:43

replacing This is actually

2:45

incredible. It's a it's replacing

2:47

pip pip tools and virtual amp

2:49

all in one new rust

2:52

driven tool It their

2:55

announcement said maybe UV represents a

2:57

milestone in our pursuit of cargo

3:00

for Python comprehensive Python

3:02

project and package manager that's fast

3:04

reliable and easy to use They're

3:07

also kind of it's interesting kind of

3:09

combined in this announcement is that they're

3:12

taking Astral is taking stewardship

3:14

of our men Ronik or's rye tool.

3:16

That's an experimental tool So I'm not

3:18

sure what that has to do with

3:20

this, but I don't know it's interesting

3:23

But have you given this a

3:25

try yet? Oh, yes, I

3:27

am so psyched about this the Charlie team Congratulations,

3:30

because this this is setting the world

3:32

on fire in a lot of interesting ways

3:35

So I you know Charlie

3:37

aimed this right at like my

3:39

style of programming and working with

3:41

Python dependencies and projects So on

3:44

one hand we have just the

3:46

pip pip free side Right and

3:48

then on the other you've got

3:50

the poetry and other Pip

3:53

and where you've got like some other

3:55

API that kind of manages everything and

3:57

I want some of the benefits of

3:59

that want it to be just

4:01

a simple requirement.txt or something like that in

4:03

the end, right? Yeah. And so I use

4:05

pip tools and pip tools will go and

4:07

say, okay, what do you say you actually

4:10

need and then let's build out a, what

4:12

would be into the virtual environment after that.

4:14

And it's great, but you know, the command

4:16

pip compile like for mine, I don't know.

4:18

It takes probably 15 seconds

4:20

to pip compile, update the list of

4:23

things for talk by the train. I

4:25

think there's 250 dependencies in the dev

4:27

version. It's out

4:29

of control. Yeah. It just takes

4:31

a real, real long time with this instant. And

4:34

it's just so good. You, they

4:36

have some benchmarks up there and

4:38

it's like hip sync versus UV.

4:41

Hip sync is like 60 milliseconds

4:44

versus almost five seconds. Right. Those are

4:46

different types. It's, it just happens versus

4:48

you like, okay, hold on. It's

4:51

working. You know what I mean?

4:53

Yeah. And what's really pretty interesting

4:55

is that it looks like it's

4:57

gotten a lot of, it's not

4:59

necessarily that it's just because it's

5:01

written in rough rust

5:04

reading rough as I'm saying that not just that it's

5:06

written in rust, which it happens to be, cause that's

5:09

the vibe of astral. All right. Starting

5:12

with the rough stuff, but that they've

5:14

maybe unlocked some different algorithms or techniques

5:16

or something like that, where even if

5:18

it were in Python, it would be

5:21

faster, which is pretty interesting. Yeah. There's

5:23

that there's some caching that they've done

5:25

and, um, of like sitewide caching and

5:28

keeping also keeping pip, um, actually makes

5:30

sense to have some of this

5:32

stuff, virtual M and then and pip

5:34

outside of the Python tool chain system

5:37

so that, um, because you're going to

5:39

want it in each virtual environment.

5:41

So having it, uh, installed outside is

5:43

kind of interesting. So, um, yeah, I'm

5:46

pretty, uh, it's super fast. Um, the,

5:48

the hope is to be, uh,

5:50

API compatible or at least, uh, interface

5:52

compatible it's, um, in the, they're, they

5:55

just don't have. All of the features

5:57

yet. So, um, but like I

5:59

don't. I don't mean to say that

6:01

it's not worth trying already. It is production

6:03

ready right now, and that's what they've tested

6:05

the heck out of it. It's just that

6:08

you have to work with your workflow to

6:10

make sure that you work with it. So

6:13

I was amusingly trying it out yesterday

6:15

and ran into three things right away

6:17

that are two things that didn't work.

6:20

So I did try

6:22

to use the dash dash prompt

6:24

to have virtual AMP just create my

6:26

virtual environment with the same name. And

6:29

the prompt isn't supported yet. But it is. I

6:32

went to file a defect and it was

6:34

already fixed. It just hasn't been released yet.

6:36

So probably by the time you listen to

6:38

this, it's probably been released and it'll work.

6:40

They're doing a lot of releases, aren't they?

6:42

Yeah. There's been seven releases in four days.

6:44

It's incredible and a really responsive team. A

6:46

lot of people are trying it out, though.

6:48

So yeah, I'm glad they're

6:50

responsive because there's a bunch of issues people are

6:52

working on. It's really

6:54

fun to watch. The other thing was,

6:57

oh, so virtual

6:59

environments work really fast. It's

7:01

so fast. And the resolver

7:04

actually is something we don't really talk about

7:06

too much. But the resolver,

7:08

like you said, when you're pip installing

7:10

something, if you have a requirements file,

7:12

you've got a bunch of projects in it

7:14

or a bunch of things you're pulling

7:16

in, dependencies. They might have conflicting dependencies or

7:18

not really conflicting. But the rules are

7:21

such that you have to pick the

7:23

right dependencies so that it matches both tools.

7:25

That's all done. And it's super fast. I'm

7:28

really impressed with how this thing is. And

7:32

apparently, everybody else is, too. Because

7:35

almost immediately after the announcement, so

7:38

look at all these contributors. We've

7:40

got 32 contributors already. These

7:43

are not just people at Astral. I

7:46

know that Brett is not there.

7:48

So Tox has

7:50

already announced that there is

7:52

a Tox-UV plug-in so

7:54

that you can have Tox act

7:57

faster, too, and use UV for

7:59

virtual environment. And for

8:01

pip also, that makes it faster.

8:03

I think that's, and I'm

8:05

sure there's more tools to come that support,

8:07

will support UVA out of the box. So

8:09

yeah, awesome. I'm super excited, but I have

8:12

a bunch of aliases

8:14

for my shell that I almost

8:16

never type pip, you know, python

8:18

dash nv. Like I, unless

8:20

I'm doing like some presentation where I'm not

8:22

sure that people would know what the heck

8:24

is going on. So I'll just type vnv

8:26

and that will do the magic or when

8:28

an activated environment is AE or, you

8:30

know, I want to install the requirements, I'll

8:32

say PR, right. And I rewrote all of those

8:35

to move from using pip to using UV and

8:37

it's basically like the same workflow for me

8:39

just better. Well, one of

8:41

the things that I do a lot is

8:43

to just see what's in my virtual environment

8:45

is do a pip list and

8:48

that's not supported yet either. But

8:51

freeze is and list is coming, you

8:54

know, but so just use free. I

8:56

didn't actually just for some reason, I

8:58

think there's like a 50-50 split of

9:01

people that use generally pip freeze over lists.

9:03

What are you a freeze person or a

9:05

list person? I'm a list person these days,

9:08

but that's because yeah, because

9:10

I don't use pip freeze to generate

9:12

like the requirements.txt I use pip compile.

9:14

Right, but pip freeze will just like

9:16

list out which what things you have

9:19

installed in what versions. Yeah, and that's

9:21

what I want list for. So I

9:23

don't know why I used list. Anyway,

9:26

yeah, that's true. Pretty fun. Yeah. Okay,

9:28

a couple of pieces of real-time

9:30

follow-up. First of all, Ofek Lev from

9:32

Hatch says the next minor release of

9:34

Hatch will have an option to use

9:36

UV under the hood instead of pip

9:38

and virtual ENV. Hooray! Yeah, I

9:40

love Hatch. I've been doing like doing a lot

9:42

of stuff with Hatch lately and it's really really

9:45

nice. So Ofek, you're killing it. Keep it up.

9:47

Very nice. And you mentioned

9:49

talks. Henry Shriner, who I see

9:51

some comments from him out there

9:53

as well, says with

9:56

the Knox back in using

9:58

UV and the Knox back in it drops. the time

10:00

taken to build the docs from 22 seconds to 4

10:02

seconds. So, you know,

10:04

that's, you know, it's not like 22 seconds

10:07

is gonna change the world. I go, if

10:10

they just didn't take 22 seconds to build

10:12

the docs, but the faster these things get,

10:14

the more willing you just like to do

10:16

them more iteratively. And, you know, get tight

10:19

enough feedback loop and stuff like that. So

10:21

like, for example, with rough, you know, and

10:23

PyCharm now, you can just check the box,

10:25

like run, run rough onto the

10:27

end of this project when I hit save. If

10:30

it took five seconds to do that, you would never check that.

10:32

That would not even be a box you could check, right? Because

10:36

it's so fast. So hopefully I'm

10:38

not missing anything else from folks out there,

10:40

but this stuff is really neat. And I

10:42

am super excited. I would love if some

10:44

of the things they learned from

10:46

this could be brought back into standard pip,

10:49

just to make standard pip faster too. That

10:51

would still be cool. Yeah. And this, I

10:53

guess that brings up a side question is

10:55

really how much energy there's going to

10:58

be around supporting the other tools

11:00

that are getting replaced by things

11:02

that astral is building, but there's

11:05

a, yeah, anyway, we'll have that conversation

11:07

later. Maybe. Yeah.

11:10

Opek agrees with you that much of the speed

11:12

up comes to the way they're doing caching. Very,

11:14

very nice. So, you know, people check this out.

11:16

It's been a few days and it's things

11:19

are going fast in the space. So yeah,

11:21

very, very exciting. Let's go

11:23

on to the next topic. All

11:25

right. Brian Jupiter notebooks have definitely

11:27

taken over as a

11:29

really interesting way for creating, writing

11:32

Python code, visualizing Python code, sharing it,

11:35

communicating with it. And obviously

11:37

will McGougand to work with rich

11:39

and then on from their textual

11:42

is doing amazing stuff too. Right.

11:44

Yeah. What if those came together

11:46

like butter and jelly or whatever

11:48

it is that you put together that goes

11:50

together well. So David chocolate, man. Yes. Okay.

11:53

Sorry. Reese's pieces. I got it. Okay. David

11:56

bro chart says I just published my

11:58

first blog post. Which

12:01

is, we go over here, JP

12:03

term, Jupiter in the terminal

12:05

built on textual and rich.

12:08

Yeah, that's great. There's a

12:10

bunch of terminal fun stuff

12:12

that's based on the textual

12:15

and other things that we could cover. But

12:17

this is what I'm covering today. I'll save

12:19

the other for next time. So Jupiter in

12:21

the terminal and it says, well, you know,

12:23

basically, David says, look, the terminal

12:25

is the new browser in the sense that

12:28

we all have a terminal. And if we

12:30

write to this, it's kind of a

12:32

simple, cool UI that everybody already has.

12:34

You can just plug stuff into it

12:36

largely because of all the work that

12:38

they've done over it. Textualize with textual

12:40

and rich and so on. Right. So

12:42

look, look at all these widgets we

12:44

already have. So like there's a select

12:46

widget and there's a whole bunch

12:49

of others. But if we view this, I'll open

12:51

a new tab, maybe

12:53

open image in a new tab. Oh,

12:56

it's downloading. Hold on, because of course it is. Open

13:00

this up. It's Jupiter lab

13:02

side by side with JP term and

13:04

check it out. It's like you've got

13:07

yourselves, you've got your in your bracket

13:09

and quite similar. Huh? What do you

13:11

think about this? That's incredible. That's pretty

13:13

cool. Yeah. So it's got let me

13:15

go back to the article here.

13:18

You go down, it's got graphing. It's

13:20

got like charts for it. And

13:22

he says basically one of the real

13:24

similar things to compare to might be

13:27

Jupiter light. Because Jupiter light is a

13:29

web assembly based all front end

13:31

Jupiter. And this is like client

13:33

doesn't even need a server, right? Because it just

13:35

runs. Although he does point out with textual web.

13:39

Is a way to put this

13:41

on the internet and share it as well.

13:43

But like here, look, here's a bunch of

13:45

cool graphs over time in the terminal. Yeah.

13:47

So this is a super early almost a

13:49

proof of concept even has images, which is

13:52

interesting. I think they're bad.

13:55

Yeah, like you want if you long for

13:57

like Commodore 64 days. I

14:00

see you got something in store for you, but

14:03

you can go ahead. You can see it's quite new.

14:05

Uh, it's been, uh, you know, created

14:07

like four months ago and just announced,

14:09

I think pretty recently. So people

14:11

go check this out. Uh, David

14:14

is, uh, I think a Jupiter

14:16

cord, Ev or at least a

14:18

contributor over there. So yeah, uh,

14:20

interesting to see where this goes.

14:22

Yeah. Let's see. Cool. You know,

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the Elsa school, our sponsor. Yes.

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It really supports the show. Awesome. Yeah.

16:13

All right. Over to you. What's next?

16:15

I've got a little, little topic. Martin

16:17

Heinz wrote a blog post called everything,

16:19

everything you can do with the Python's

16:21

text wrap up module. And I love

16:23

the text wrap module. And I think

16:25

that more people, I think a lot

16:27

of people just forget about it. It's

16:29

very, Brian, do you have that feeling where

16:32

like you spent half a day implementing some algorithm,

16:34

then you're like, Oh, that was a function I

16:36

could have just called. Yeah, exactly. Text wrap is

16:38

that. Yeah. Um, there's, and

16:40

you know, every time I come back

16:42

to it, I'm like, Oh, I'm still

16:44

using stuff that I shouldn't. So, uh,

16:46

uh, it's a pretty short article. Go

16:49

through a few of the features of

16:51

text wrap. Uh, first off it's shortened.

16:53

So if you've got, if you want

16:55

to make a, uh, piece of text

16:57

shorter, um, you can use shortened and

16:59

it's cool because it also does a

17:01

placeholder thing. So it'll put like, um, like,

17:03

uh, dot, dot, dots and, and brackets or

17:05

something or whatever placeholder you want to say,

17:08

there's more text there. It's just, we've cut

17:10

it off. Um, and, uh, it looks really

17:12

nice. Uh, easy to, easy to use. You

17:14

just call it, uh, just

17:16

a function, but then there's, um, there's

17:19

wrap, uh, which seems obvious, but, um,

17:21

can do word wrapping. So you can

17:23

split along, uh, a long chunk of

17:25

text into multiple lines. Um, but you

17:27

can also do it. Uh, one

17:29

of the things I like here is it says, uh,

17:32

said, well, yes, of course you can

17:34

use it for splitting long lines into,

17:36

into different multiple lines, but also even

17:38

if you're not going to print it

17:40

like that, um, it's very useful. If

17:42

you're going to batch that batch work

17:45

on texts, you can, uh, split a

17:47

big chunk of text into small or,

17:49

you know, even sized batches to work

17:51

on those. Um, that's a pretty cool

17:53

use case for that. I like it.

17:56

Uh, there is, there's even, um,

17:58

you can specify drop-wise void. That's

18:00

pretty cool. I didn't know about

18:02

that. Neat. There's a class also,

18:04

so a lot of the stuff

18:06

you can do with TextWrap, you

18:08

can do within an object. So

18:10

there's a TextWrapper class that you

18:12

can create a TextWrapper object and

18:14

do a whole bunch of work

18:16

with that multiple times, and

18:19

only specify it once in the

18:21

constructor. Very cool. Then at the bottom,

18:23

last but not least, is my

18:25

favorite use of TextWrap is ddent. ddent

18:30

will take, if you've got a multi-line string

18:33

and it's in your code,

18:35

so it's indented with the rest of

18:38

your code, that multi-line will have a

18:40

whole bunch of extra white space on

18:42

the left, and you don't really want

18:44

that when you're

18:46

actually using it, and ddent will

18:49

take out those extra left white

18:51

space. I love that.

18:53

This seems like a weird thing to

18:55

have built in, but I

18:58

use it a whole bunch of times

19:00

often in writing tests, because I've got a

19:02

multi-line string that I want to compare to

19:04

some output, and I don't want

19:06

it at the global level, I want it in

19:09

my test function. So I

19:12

can just do that and use ddent to

19:14

get it back to. Right. Because it would

19:16

look weird left-aligned inside of an indented function,

19:19

right? Yeah. I

19:21

mean, you can, it just looks ugly. Yeah.

19:23

You lose the flow of where

19:25

it belongs. Yeah. So

19:28

TextWrap, it's there, it's

19:30

fun. Use it. You already have it. It's

19:32

in Python. Yeah. Yeah. Very nice. All right.

19:35

Let's talk about some design principles for

19:37

the web here. This is

19:40

not exactly Python, but

19:42

it certainly links back to some cool things

19:44

in Python. It's this place I ran across

19:46

called html-burst.com. The

19:50

idea is, there seems to be some fatigue. You

19:52

know how in JavaScript, it used to be so

19:54

easy, you would include a script, or if you

19:57

were doing something super small, you maybe just say,

19:59

a script tag and you would write a bit

20:01

of JavaScript right in the page and then you

20:03

carry on. You're like, oh, that was

20:05

easy. Look, that just worked. And then it said, oh,

20:08

well, now we're going to put it over on this

20:10

other place. No, we're going to like minify it. Also,

20:12

we're going to shake it down to only include the

20:14

parts that we use and we'll do the same for

20:16

the CSS. And then you need this build step and

20:19

then we're going to compile it from TypeScript to JavaScript

20:21

and then shake it down to not include this. And

20:24

then you're going to include it with import,

20:26

export it with node. And you're just like,

20:28

what is, why is this so hard? Why

20:30

are there so many steps to this thing

20:33

that used to be so easy, right? And

20:35

so this is kind of like, we just

20:37

not have that as like the default way

20:39

of working already. So HTML, HTML,

20:41

we'll get the HTML. HTML first is

20:43

a set of guidelines for making it

20:45

easier, faster, and more maintainable to build

20:47

web software by leveraging the default capabilities

20:49

of modern browsers. I learned something I

20:51

didn't know from here that I used

20:53

to do a JavaScript that I will

20:55

never do again if I don't have

20:57

to. So awesome. And then the

21:00

extreme simplicity of HTMLs, attributes syntax and, you know,

21:02

keeping the view source alive, right? You used to

21:04

be able to go to the website, like, how

21:06

did they do that? That's cool view source. Now

21:08

it's just like one tiny line of like a

21:10

bunch of stuff that triggers JavaScript stuff. You're like,

21:12

Oh, well, all right. Or how did they do

21:14

that? Oh, it's a bunch of divs. Yes,

21:17

exactly. And

21:19

so the goal is, you know, try to

21:21

widen the pool of people who enjoy web

21:24

development. So you can make

21:26

it less expensive for your company because it's

21:28

just less complex. So it's

21:30

not just, you know, dev yells at the

21:33

cloud because people are making

21:35

it hard, right? Screams it into

21:37

the sky, but some practices, right?

21:39

So there's some examples, prefer vanilla

21:42

approaches. And so for example,

21:44

did you know you could say details

21:46

summary and then stuff below it? And

21:48

if you click the summary, it'll expand

21:50

the thing below it. No JavaScript. No

21:53

JavaScript. Yeah. How

21:55

about that? And so

21:57

they have encouraged versus.

22:00

Here's like import react user state

22:02

from react create a details component,

22:04

which is an arrow function which

22:06

returns a concept

22:09

of things and toggling the content and

22:11

then you on click you like like

22:14

Then you export the data. This is the import

22:16

export out is railing against right? So

22:18

that's one prefer just if you can

22:20

do is basic HTML or even basic

22:23

JavaScript I think don't go over to

22:25

the top and where possible practice to

22:27

where possible define default the defining styles

22:30

and behaviors with inline attributes with things

22:32

like tailwind or Tachyon's and

22:34

you can use libraries like hyper script and

22:36

Alpine and it says you're yes It does

22:38

mean your HTML gets a little bit busier But you don't

22:40

have to go to three places to figure out what's happening

22:44

So for example, it says encouraged

22:46

button on click this class list

22:48

add background green discouraged

22:50

you have a results pane says click me and

22:52

then you have a CSS section

22:54

that actually what happens when you do that changes the

22:57

color of green then you have some JavaScript that gets

22:59

it and then When it's done you set the

23:01

class which then goes back to CSS and

23:04

these are usually mushed all over the place

23:06

You know like what is happening, right? Yeah,

23:08

it says you'll notice the separation of concerns

23:10

is kind of not so much awesome

23:13

here, however, you should maybe

23:16

consider the locality of behavior

23:18

more than you should worry about separation

23:20

concerns and HTM X Carson Gorse has

23:22

a nice essay on this like yes, you

23:24

might repeat yourself sometimes but right there

23:27

You see everything that's happening instead of having it

23:29

so it's spread out, right? Yeah All

23:32

right. Next good, right? I just wanted to

23:34

comment one of the things that I like

23:36

about this sort of model is is that

23:38

I'm learning I'm frequently you're learning like new

23:41

web frameworks like I'm working on learning

23:43

Django and And

23:45

you know age fast API and others and

23:47

a lot of times it's templating that I'm

23:50

working on and to Understand

23:52

how it's gonna get output

23:54

keeping the template simple in

23:56

like mostly HTML help them

23:58

helps with Discoverability and learning

24:00

something new so even if even if

24:03

it isn't like a production thing later,

24:05

but it might be Starting

24:08

out simple really helps with the learning process.

24:10

So yeah, oh, absolutely And you also have

24:12

to learn fewer things, right? Yeah, you have

24:14

to learn three other frameworks and build tools

24:16

and so on All right. Another one is

24:18

about try to use libraries If

24:21

you got these libraries trying to use ones

24:23

that leverage HTML attributes over JavaScript and custom

24:25

attributes like HTML X is a real nice

24:28

example of that Just

24:30

say this favor build steps. So

24:32

encourage the ability to say style

24:34

sheet slash style You

24:37

know, it's slash styles CSS discouraged distribute

24:39

output NPX CSS compile with a watch

24:41

and then don't forget to run that

24:43

And then why is this not updating,

24:45

you know all these different things and

24:47

then finally this one I

24:49

think the HTML is really relevant to

24:51

Python folks But also this one their

24:53

example is Ruby, but it just as

24:55

well could be any WTF

24:59

forms which is I think

25:01

it is though the form builder type stuff

25:03

You see a lot of that actually in

25:06

Django says prefer naked HTML to obfuscation layers

25:08

that compile down to HTML So you know

25:10

just you got a form just write the

25:12

right the form put the values in it

25:14

instead of you know Form with and then

25:17

form like label for this form text field

25:19

for that part of the model and so

25:21

on right? So anyway, I finally preserved some

25:23

some view source for us all because it'll

25:26

help everyone But anyway, I like this and

25:28

I you know, it's interesting

25:30

to think of as a philosophy Yeah, the

25:32

build staffs they also reference like a whole bunch

25:35

of people how it used to be completely Like

25:38

oh, you're such a noob if you want

25:40

to skip having like a bunch of build

25:42

tools along the way But references four different

25:44

articles and places where people are writing about

25:46

like, you know, what we're done with this

25:48

build stuff We're just writing CSS. We're just

25:50

writing JavaScript I'm gonna go with that. So

25:52

anyway, pretty pretty well backed up some of

25:54

these ideas. Nice That's all

25:56

of our main items. You can see their tabs

25:58

left for me. So that means I must have

26:00

extras, but what about you? I do have extras. Do

26:02

you want to go through yours since they're up or

26:04

do you want to? Sure. Let's do it. All right.

26:06

So first of all, Vincent warmer dumb says

26:09

a new pie data location

26:12

Pittsburgh. So there's a

26:14

call for proposals at pie

26:16

data Pittsburgh. Let's see. When does it hopefully it's

26:18

not over. So yeah, so

26:21

if you want to speak if you're in

26:23

the general Pittsburgh area or you want to

26:25

be then check out pie data Pittsburgh and

26:27

go submit some talks there it say

26:30

when this is going to be surely April.

26:32

Okay April 11th. I guess anyway check it

26:34

out and you can submit a talk

26:36

there. That's pretty cool. Just want to bring

26:39

out one more example, you know, I write I

26:42

riff on or I rip on the

26:44

ad space and I say look we

26:46

should run ad blockers. We should we

26:48

should not support these people and I

26:50

know some folks are out there like

26:53

well, but then you're not supporting creators.

26:55

You're not supporting the small

26:57

folks who have Google ads on their

26:59

site or whatever and I don't know. I

27:01

just I think the trade-off is not really worth

27:03

it. So I just want to point out one

27:05

more example of like terrible stuff that's happening. So

27:08

our own Oregon senator Ron

27:10

Wyden is started

27:12

investigation because a data broker

27:14

gets data from you know,

27:16

all these these different sources

27:19

like ad retargeting stuff used

27:21

abortion clinic visitor location data

27:23

because their endpoints were not

27:25

blocked by some sort

27:28

of DNS block or something to help

27:30

send targeted misinformation to vulnerable

27:32

women. How terrible right awful.

27:36

So I think we all

27:38

should just stand up to stand up

27:40

to the like the retargeting remark like

27:42

we don't have to that has nothing

27:44

to do with trying to make money

27:46

for content creators. Yeah, I

27:48

know except for that the the data flows

27:51

into these shady places right and then they

27:53

then you know, they already have it. So

27:55

instead of trying to sell them shoes like

27:57

what's let's do something terrible like that. Yeah.

28:00

All right. Anyway, next

28:02

DNS that I have folks. Okay. Call

28:04

for proposals is also open for a

28:06

very close nearby SciPy 2024,

28:09

which is awesome. This

28:12

will be in Tacoma, Brian, just a

28:14

short hop and a skip up I-5

28:17

North from us. That'd be fun. Yeah.

28:19

So July 8 to 14. I

28:22

wish I could make it, but I am

28:24

already tied up around the

28:26

house. My wife is traveling for work

28:29

at that time and somebody has to stay

28:31

with the dog and the kid. So I'm

28:33

not going to this. I have a feeling that

28:35

the same timeframe is Oregon Country Fair. So I

28:38

probably can't either. Yeah, but anyway,

28:40

there's a lot of people out there who

28:42

can and call for proposals are out, but

28:45

you must act. You must act soon. You

28:47

have exactly seven days to get this ish

28:49

depending on when you listen. But as I

28:51

speak, you have about seven days to get

28:53

your talk proposal in. So please go do

28:55

that. So February 27th is that in time.

28:59

Okay. Thanks a handful of

29:01

topics. Python's 8.01 8.0.1 is out.

29:07

And why is this important one? It's the

29:09

first bug fix since 8.0 came

29:12

out and it has the bug that bug

29:14

to me. So the there was a there

29:17

was a regression where if

29:19

you parameterization would go backwards for

29:22

some reason. Yeah, we talked

29:24

about that before. Yeah, so that's that's fixed.

29:26

So I've got it updated

29:28

to 8.01 everywhere. I'm

29:30

using by test. Okay next

29:34

if you'd like to understand

29:37

dependency injection. Hinnock

29:39

has a new video out loose

29:42

coupling and dependency injection the easy way and

29:44

I really like that the dude and I

29:46

like what he's doing up on YouTube. So

29:49

that's fun. Plus this pen. Injection is

29:52

not as complicated as it sounds and

29:55

and he'll show you but but I

29:57

freaked out the first time that people were like,

29:59

oh. fixtures, they're kind of like dependency injection. I'm

30:01

like, I don't know what you're talking about. They

30:04

are kind of like dependency injection.

30:06

Yeah. Yeah. I had a guest

30:09

Nicole on Python test

30:11

recently. This hasn't been aired yet. But

30:14

when we were talking about something completely

30:16

different, and I mentioned all

30:18

of the rust that's coming into Python

30:20

community. And I said, but I

30:23

mean, I want to try to learn rust.

30:25

And, but I don't have a

30:27

lot of time. And she said, Oh, we had the

30:29

same problem at work. So I wrote a tutorial.

30:31

So there's yar.fyi.

30:34

Yar is yet another rust resource.

30:36

But the pirate

30:39

friendly. Yeah, pirate. It's

30:42

a it's a rust tutorial. But

30:45

intended for people that already know how to

30:47

program, they just don't know rust. And so

30:49

I'm excited to jump

30:51

into that. Okay, what

30:53

else? Oh, yeah, I'm looking

30:56

for trying to ramp up interviews for Python

30:58

people. So if there's, if

31:00

there's just some interesting stuff around the Python community that

31:02

you'd like me to talk to, or if you'd like

31:04

me to talk to you, reach

31:06

out. And the first

31:08

episode was Michael Kennedy. It was a good

31:11

episode. But I've only been 12 episodes so

31:13

far, but I want to get more out.

31:16

And the last thing I wanted to

31:19

know, there's there's a like, there's an

31:21

interesting thing phenomenon out there. Did you

31:23

know that there's people still using x?

31:25

Yes. I've seen

31:27

them. There are many of them

31:30

over there. Actually, I, I

31:32

have I am officially following zero people

31:34

just to end it just just to

31:36

like as a protest. I don't I

31:38

don't really I show up

31:40

there about once a month to check my

31:42

direct messages. So if you

31:44

if you want to contact me, I

31:46

will probably reply to you eventually. But

31:49

just morning, I'm not there very often.

31:51

Indeed, indeed. Awesome. Well, a bunch of

31:53

great items. How about we talk about

31:56

some unfortunate architectural or

31:58

vendor based that's part

32:00

of our joke here. You ready? Have you seen

32:02

this joke? Did you look ahead? I have not

32:04

looked ahead. I don't know what you're talking about.

32:06

Beautiful. All right. You ready? Yeah, do the joke.

32:08

So here we are. I got this over

32:12

on Reddit and of course I zoomed it

32:14

in. So why, you know, why are we

32:16

using SAP again when there's this open source

32:18

thing that is so much simpler? Or why

32:20

are we using Oracle again for this? Because

32:23

whatever. So there's an angry team

32:25

leader something. Why do we end up with a

32:27

solution? A couple of people are like, cool savings,

32:30

time savings maybe. Then someone like a hipster

32:32

looking dude in the back is like, the vendor

32:34

sent me a Yeti tumbler. So

32:37

they grab him and throw him out the window. Why

32:41

are we stuck with this crappy system that is

32:43

like whatever? Well, conference

32:45

swag basically. Yeah.

32:49

I think the real answer is usually the

32:51

best house options were all free and

32:54

we needed to have to pay somebody. Yeah,

32:57

that's true. That's true. Well,

32:59

none of them had an SLA, but

33:01

it's like, but do you have a Yeti

33:03

tumbler? I have one of these

33:05

like soft Yeti, uh, hoolers that we'll take and

33:08

we go out camping or boating or something, but

33:10

I don't have a tumbler now. I don't believe

33:12

so. I had to look it up. I didn't

33:14

even know what this was. Oh

33:17

yeah. Yeti, this is like the role.

33:19

Yeti is like the Rolls Royce of

33:22

like hillbilly land, I guess. They're

33:25

like, they're like super, super, um, nice

33:27

coolers. If you want a thermos for

33:29

your coffee, but you don't want to

33:31

spend $10, you want to spend $40,

33:34

get a Yeti. Yeah. Yeah. We

33:37

have a lot of Yeti stuff. Actually, it's

33:40

really nice. I'm just joking. Bougie. What if

33:42

stuff got warm, Brian? What if it got

33:44

warm? What if your beer got a little

33:46

bit warm and your mountains and your cores,

33:48

they weren't blue anymore. They turned whatever color

33:51

they're not when they're not blue, whatever color

33:53

they have in the non blue. You

33:55

want to talk about like the cord, one of the cords beer

33:57

cans has a can that when it's like a certain temperature, mountains

34:00

on the can turn blue.

34:02

And if it's too warm, they turn white or something

34:04

or what other color. OK,

34:06

so we had a couple options. We could have

34:09

made better beer or a better can. We chose

34:11

a better can. What do you see

34:13

when you're shopping? Come on

34:15

now. Awesome. Yeah. OK.

34:18

Fun as always. Thank you for being here. And

34:20

thank you, everyone, for listening. See you

34:22

all.