0:00

It's time to put on

0:00

your sleuthing cap feel

0:03

nailbiting dread and face heart

0:03

racing fear. This is Queer

0:08

Writers of Crime, where you'll

0:08

get book recommendations and

0:12

hear interviews with LGBTQ

0:12

authors of mystery, suspense and

0:17

thriller novels. Here's your

0:17

host, Brad Shreve.

0:22

Thank you Alshar

0:22

for that lovely new intro. Hi, I

0:26

am Brad Shreve and welcome to

0:26

Queer Writers of Crime. And

0:30

let's call this a special

0:30

edition. My guest is Paul

0:35

Oliver, the founder of crime and

0:35

mystery fiction publisher

0:39

Syndicate Books. Paul is going

0:39

to share with us how he happened

0:43

to stumbled upon a certain novel

0:43

published in 1970, titled,

0:48

Fadeout by Joseph Hansen. Some

0:48

of you may be familiar with this

0:52

novel. Paul will share his

0:52

reaction to finding it and what

0:56

happened after that. Hi, Paul.

0:59

Hi Brad. Thanks for having me on.

1:01

Great to have you

1:01

on. I was given a nudge and was

1:04

told, hey, you need to go look

1:04

at this guy over there and see

1:07

what he did. And it was a wise

1:07

decision that I followed those

1:11

instructions, because I'm very

1:11

excited to hear your story. But

1:15

before we begin, I hope you'll

1:15

bear with me while I make a

1:18

special announcement.

1:21

I'm all ears.

1:23

Okay, this is going

1:23

to be no surprise for those of

1:26

you who follow me on Queer

1:26

Writers of Crime social media

1:29

accounts or get my author

1:29

newsletter. It's not been a well

1:34

kept secret, because I can't

1:34

keep my mouth shut. And neither

1:39

can I keep my fingertip still.

1:39

Maybe later, I should add a

1:43

drumroll effect here before I

1:43

make the announcement I'll

1:46

decide later. So here it is,

1:46

folks. Starting mid March, Queer

1:52

Writers of Crime is returning as

1:52

a weekly podcast. And here's

1:57

something new, there will be two

1:57

episodes every week. And that's

2:02

all I'm going to say for now. If

2:02

you want more details, hang on

2:06

until the end of the show.

2:06

Because right now, let's focus

2:10

on our guest. Paul Oliver is the

2:10

director of publicity at Soho

2:14

press. And as I said at the

2:14

beginning, he's the publisher of

2:17

Syndicate Books, and Syndicate

2:17

seeks to restore out of print

2:22

authors with an eye towards

2:22

completionism and legacy. His

2:27

list of authors is impressive,

2:27

but near and dear to my heart.

2:31

He's currently releasing the

2:31

complete Dave Brandstetter

2:36

mysteries by the incomparable

2:36

Joseph Hansen, a pioneering

2:41

voice and LGBTQ crime fiction,

2:41

and the recipient of two lambda

2:46

literary awards, and the private

2:46

eye Writers of America Lifetime

2:51

Achievement Award. Paul, I would

2:51

like to start with your story of

2:56

how you came across a copy of

2:56

Fadeout, Joseph Hansen's first

3:01

novel in the Dave Brandstetter

3:01

series.

3:05

It was a 2018

3:05

September I was at Bouchercon,

3:09

and a great place to find a crime writer.

3:11

Tell people what Bouchercon is.

3:13

So Bouchercon's

3:13

existed for decades. It is it's

3:17

a wonderful convention. It's a

3:17

crime fiction, mystery. And kind

3:22

of its various forms that it

3:22

takes. And it's a place for

3:26

where fans can come and your

3:26

authors on panels, see, do

3:32

events, all that kind of thing.

3:32

And there are it's also where a

3:35

lot of the mystery awards are

3:35

given out. So it's this great

3:38

kind of gathering point of

3:38

writers, mystery fans, people

3:42

involved in television, and you

3:42

know, crime storytelling of all

3:45

kinds. So it's just it's a fun

3:45

convention. It's in a different

3:47

city every year, I think last

3:47

year was the first year in quite

3:50

some time that didn't attend it.

3:52

And I'm very excited about next year because I live in California. And I know

3:54

next year is in San Diego. So it

3:58

will be the first time I attend.

4:01

Oh, that's really good. It's a really fun convention, the crime and

4:03

mystery community is I find one

4:08

of the most generous communities

4:08

out there where you know,

4:10

newcomers are always welcomed

4:10

in, you pull up to the coffee

4:14

shop or bar and you're standing

4:14

next to Lee Child and you say

4:17

hi, I like your books. And he

4:17

says, that's great. What do you

4:19

know, what are you here for? And

4:19

you talk to him for a while.

4:22

It's, it's just neat. It's an

4:22

interaction you don't get to

4:25

have a lot of other things.

4:27

So how did you

4:27

stumble on the book What

4:29

happened and what was your react so I

4:30

was actually just

4:30

perusing the use book dealer and

4:34

there's a giant book room where

4:34

you know, new books of the

4:36

authors there they host signings

4:36

and stuff and I'm I'm a former

4:39

bookseller I used to own a

4:39

bookstore and and Phoenixville,

4:42

Pennsylvania that was new and

4:42

used and we had a used and rare

4:45

component to it and I always

4:45

kind of gravitate towards those

4:49

books just I like the old covers

4:49

and like the kind of leafing

4:53

through that I was also you

4:53

know, with Syndicate that's one

4:55

of the things you know, that is

4:55

the thing we do is we try and

4:58

find these kind of lost books

4:58

And I pulled up the hardcover of

5:04

Fadeout. And read the flap copy,

5:04

jaw kind of dropped. And I was

5:09

like how I've never heard of

5:09

this. And I just opened it up,

5:12

read the first page and was

5:12

like, Okay, I'm gonna buy this.

5:15

And so I actually, the dealer

5:15

actually had, I think three or

5:18

four books kind of throughout

5:18

the series, and I bought bought

5:21

them all on, you know, just

5:21

thinking that I would be

5:24

potentially doing this as a

5:24

project. And, you know, actually

5:28

kind of funny ended I wound up

5:28

at the bar afterward. And

5:32

sitting there, I kind of asked

5:32

people about them, if anyone

5:34

knew. And some people Oh, yeah,

5:34

yeah, yeah, he did he wrote a

5:39

gay detective, didn't he? Or

5:39

something like that? And I was

5:41

just kind of all it was. And they said, Yeah, that's, you know, that. That seems to be the

5:43

case. And, and but it was, it

5:46

was all kind of hazy. And then I

5:46

talked to some, some more

5:50

knowledgeable people. And then

5:50

eventually, I kind of caught on

5:52

that I'd really just accidentally stumbled on the perfect next project and inhaled

5:54

Fadeout and went from there. I

5:58

mean, they're just, it was very

5:58

clear, you know, by the 10th

6:02

page that this was a master at

6:02

work, and it was going to be

6:06

perfect thing to do.

6:07

It's easy to inhale

6:07

Fadeout. And whenever I ask

6:12

authors, what books inspire

6:12

them? At least 50% of the time

6:17

Fadeout comes up. At least 50.

6:20

And I think it's

6:20

gonna be it's gonna, there'll be

6:23

some new names on that list,

6:23

too, as I'm hoping that as

6:25

people discover this new edition

6:25

and give it a read, they're

6:28

gonna realize that someone did a

6:28

really well, before, you know,

6:32

that there's a there is a shadow

6:32

that that no one was aware of,

6:34

kind of. But yeah, it's also you

6:34

know, the size of Hansen's books

6:39

are in the Brandstetter series,

6:39

especially are I find

6:42

remarkable, they're slim, and he

6:42

packs a lot into and we can talk

6:48

about that later. But, you know,

6:48

it's it's a he does, and 173

6:51

pages what and writers with

6:51

double that space can never do,

6:56

he gives you a personal life of

6:56

his protagonists, he gives you,

6:59

you know, cleverly plotted

6:59

mystery, socio political

7:03

interests, it's just it's a lot

7:03

170 pages and, and for it to

7:08

have warmth, you know, those

7:08

shorts, briny writers, usually,

7:11

either icy cool stories that

7:11

are, you know, think like

7:15

Kambou, or any number of ladies

7:15

kind of short writers that can

7:19

that can do that. And he's not,

7:19

though they're warm. There's a

7:23

warmth and emotionality to the

7:23

books that is amazing for the

7:29

page count that he worked with?

7:30

Yeah, in a story

7:30

that short, it would be easy,

7:33

just be cut and dry. This is

7:33

what happened and not get into

7:38

depth of the individuals and the

7:38

motives and that sort of things.

7:42

And it is impressive.

7:44

I'll tell you this. I don't know who you know, there's not very many better

7:46

world builders than Joseph

7:49

Hansen in the mystery coming

7:49

period. Full stop, you know, he

7:52

doesn't very well.

7:53

So you read the it

7:53

was a four books?

7:56

I had, it was kind

7:56

of an odd collection, you know,

7:59

and I bought Fadeout I believe

7:59

it was The Boy Who Was Buried

8:03

This Morning, Nightwork, and

8:03

Skinflick. Were the the books

8:07

that I bought that day. And then

8:07

after reading Fadeout, I went

8:11

ahead and ordered the rest of

8:11

the books because I knew there

8:15

was a good chance this was going

8:15

to be the next Syndicate Books

8:17

project. And yeah, so then I

8:17

read, I read them in order from

8:22

there, it seemed like it was the

8:22

thing to do. And there's also

8:25

there was enough writing about

8:25

Hansen out there enough people

8:27

had like occasionally, you know,

8:27

popped online to write a long

8:31

form piece about how important

8:31

he is and where is he and

8:34

shelves. And so there was just

8:34

enough of that information out

8:37

there that I was able to really

8:37

it's one of those like

8:40

galvanizing moments where you're

8:40

like, Yeah, this is this is the

8:42

right thing.

8:43

You sent me an old

8:43

public radio interview, I

8:47

believe it was a public radio

8:47

station. With Hansen. I really

8:50

enjoyed just great to hear him

8:50

being interviewed.

8:53

Richard Wolinsky,

8:53

just remastered a taped

8:56

interview he did from 1990 as

8:56

well, that is on KPFA out of San

9:01

Francisco and that is I highly

9:01

recommend that listenership it

9:05

is a wonderful piece for crime

9:05

writers for crime, you know,

9:08

fiction fans, it's a wonderful

9:08

snapshot of the decades that he

9:11

was writing the series from, you

9:11

know, an LGBTQ you know, life

9:16

standpoint, like it's just, it's

9:16

interesting to see what he went

9:18

through as an author and it

9:18

really lays a lot of that out in

9:22

that interview. It's a great interview.

9:24

Since I can't

9:24

interview Joseph Hansen myself,

9:27

unfortunately, I'll put a link

9:27

in the show notes and you can

9:30

hear the interview. Obviously,

9:30

you liked the books because you

9:34

made the smart decision to make

9:34

many in this world very happy

9:39

and republish all 12 novels in

9:39

the Brandstetter series. What's

9:44

been released so far, and what's

9:44

coming up?

9:46

The first four, so

9:46

that's Fadeout, Deathclaims,

9:50

Troublemaker, and The Man

9:50

Everybody Was Afraid Of. And

9:55

those four out and on shelves

9:55

and we'll be doing one a month

9:59

with Skinflick up next coming

9:59

out once a month, basically

10:02

until October pending some

10:02

printing issues, you know, there

10:05

there are some very serious

10:05

supply chain issues going on and

10:08

the publishing industry right

10:08

now. And many industries right

10:11

now. I mean, you can't buy cat

10:11

food right now but it, it's

10:14

affected glue and paper, all

10:14

kinds of stuff. So far so good.

10:18

But I will tell people that you

10:18

know, maybe, maybe December on

10:20

one of them who knows what happens but yeah, it's one a month, all the way through

10:22

October and we're gonna do all

10:24

12 Same same artists designing

10:24

them, my kind of other half at

10:29

Syndicate is a guy named Jeff

10:29

Wong, who's a crime fiction

10:33

aficionados he actually has the

10:33

world's largest private

10:36

collection of Ross MacDonald. He

10:36

did a book about book of his of

10:40

his collection. It's very

10:40

impressive. Also kind of apropos

10:43

of working on these because

10:43

it's, at one time, Hansen was

10:46

anointed, you know, kind of an

10:46

heir to MacDonald but yeah, so

10:49

it's they have a great uniform

10:49

look. And I'm proud of what what

10:52

he's put together.

10:54

So if you're new to

10:54

the LGBTQ crime genre, the Dave

10:58

Brandstetter mystery series is

10:58

an excellent place to start. If

11:03

you're not new to the sub genre,

11:03

and you haven't read it, shame

11:08

on you. And if you are a fan of

11:08

the sub genre, and you've read

11:12

it, one, two, or 10 times, read

11:12

it again, especially with the

11:16

new covers a really cool. Paul,

11:16

the word groundbreaking is

11:20

frequently used when describing,

11:20

describing Joseph Hansen. What

11:24

makes the Brandstetter series so

11:24

significant.

11:29

Well, obviously,

11:29

you know, there was, you know,

11:31

gay crime fiction before Joseph

11:31

Hansen and he was a published

11:34

author before the Dave

11:34

Brandstetter series and writing

11:38

queer fiction of various sorts,

11:38

some gothic romance under a

11:43

female pseudonym, all kinds of

11:43

the things that writers were

11:46

expected to do to kind of fit

11:46

into the various niches, the

11:50

pulps, the kind of, you know,

11:50

pseudo porn, pornographic

11:54

publications, that kind of

11:54

thing. And,

11:56

and I don't, I

11:56

don't think we've told people

11:59

his first novel Fadeout, maybe I

11:59

didn't actually, in the

12:01

beginning, it was published in

12:01

1970. To give people a

12:04

Yeah, that's,

12:04

that's a very good point here.

12:04

perspective. Go ahead. Um, you know, Michael

12:06

Nava, who writes the

12:10

introduction to my edition of

12:10

Fadeout. And it's a fantastic

12:14

introduction, you know, very,

12:14

pointedly states, you know, this

12:18

is, that book is published from

12:18

a mainstream publisher in the

12:21

United States, at a time when

12:21

homosexual love was illegal and

12:25

49 out of 50 states, you know,

12:25

the kind of, it's a shocking

12:29

thing to read. And to realize,

12:29

you know, that this writer was

12:33

writing something that was

12:33

essentially, like, an endangered

12:37

act. You know, it's it's a

12:37

dangerous act in some ways. But

12:41

for and we were still mentally

12:41

ill at that time. Yeah. I mean,

12:45

there's the the, the laws are, I

12:45

mean, the Great Britain, you

12:48

know, had obviously, there's a

12:48

long history of how awful the

12:52

legal situation is, then, but

12:52

but that's kind of what he set

12:56

out to do. You know, it was

12:56

groundbreaking, because here

13:00

was, you know, he referred to

13:00

him, he used the term

13:03

homosexual, homosexual man, is

13:03

that how it was his preferred

13:07

term, you know, writing an out

13:07

character, who's perfectly well

13:11

adjusted in every sort of way.

13:11

He's a rich, tall, handsome,

13:15

super competent Korean War vet,

13:15

that who has - sorry, World War

13:19

II vet, who has a, like,

13:19

basically, every, everything

13:22

going for him, except for one

13:22

thing, and it's, he makes

13:26

several jokes about that,

13:26

because it's, you know, he makes

13:29

him a death claims insurance

13:29

investigator for, you know,

13:33

insurance companies. And he did

13:33

that on purpose, because of the

13:37

long and sordid history of

13:37

insurance companies denying, you

13:41

know, the gay community, any

13:41

sort of insurance if, you know,

13:45

if they knew your lifestyle,

13:45

they could deny claims, they

13:48

deny claims deny coverage, so he

13:48

wanted, you know, he wanted to

13:52

purposefully make that joke, he

13:52

made him you know, perfectly the

13:56

only the only thing he has going

13:56

on only bit of distress he has

14:00

in his life is is a is a

14:00

substantial, you know, bit of

14:04

distress, but it's delivered in

14:04

a way that's not you know, it's

14:08

he's lost his longtime partner

14:08

of decades of two decades. And

14:12

he's heartbroken and he's

14:12

dealing with that. But he's

14:15

dealing with it in a way that's

14:15

legible to anyone. And it's

14:19

just, it's just that kind of

14:19

matter of factness of Dave

14:23

Brandstetter that are that, I

14:23

think, transcends what had come

14:27

before him maybe. And that's

14:27

what I think makes it

14:30

groundbreaking is that he's,

14:30

he's just there. And it's like,

14:34

and it's nothing. unapologetic,

14:34

I think people's what is what

14:38

people say often and, and before

14:38

that, there are a lot of

14:41

explanations and apologies

14:41

being, you know, made in books,

14:45

even by writers, you know,

14:45

writing from the community.

14:49

Yeah, this was 50

14:49

years ago, and we have a gay

14:52

character who didn't wallow in

14:52

self pity, wasn't depressed,

14:57

wasn't a psycho killer, and

14:57

didn't kill himself at the end.

15:00

I mean, that's pretty much what

15:00

if you were a gay character back

15:04

then that's pretty much what

15:04

your fate was. And it is he this

15:09

is a mystery. He's an

15:09

investigator, and hey, you know

15:13

what, he just happens to be a

15:13

gay man or homosexual man, as

15:17

you said. And I can only imagine

15:17

what he would think of the use

15:19

of queer today. But it gives you

15:19

an understanding of

15:22

Brandstetter's personal life,

15:22

even though it wasn't the focus

15:26

of the book. So we we get, we

15:26

get to peer in both of those,

15:29

which is wonderful.

15:30

Yeah, I mean,

15:30

that's actually the thing that

15:34

the mystery is excellent. It's

15:34

classic. It'll scratch that itch

15:39

of you if you're coming from,

15:39

you know, Marlowe and Spade and

15:43

Lou Archer, and you're looking

15:43

for something else. And I mean,

15:47

Dave will scratch that itch for

15:47

you big time. He's, he's a West

15:50

Coast detective in every way.

15:50

But it's that personal life that

15:54

makes these books. You know,

15:54

it's a it's not that it's not

15:59

that it's like, amazing that

15:59

he's gay, right? I'm not saying

16:03

like that. I'm not saying it's

16:03

like that. It's like, there's a

16:05

remarkable and groundbreaking

16:05

this to when he wrote this, and

16:08

what and what the characters

16:08

lifestyles, but I'm just

16:10

talking, it's just a really in

16:10

depth portrayal of a person and

16:16

his surrounding people that he

16:16

knows, I'm not that kind of

16:20

read, I gotta be honest, I'm not

16:20

the kind of reader that I don't

16:23

need to have, I don't need that

16:23

feeling of like, oh, I can't

16:26

wait to be back with the gang

16:26

or, or I'm, I wonder what's

16:29

happening with so and so in

16:29

their private life. That's not

16:32

the way I read books, usually.

16:32

And I'll enjoy that. But that's

16:34

not this is the first time in a

16:34

long time probably since, you

16:38

know, in my maybe I know, it's

16:38

kind of bold, like in my adult

16:40

life. I was reading a book and

16:40

saying, I'm actually like, I'm

16:44

looking forward to the next you

16:44

know, Martini part in the book

16:47

where they're hanging out at Max

16:47

Romano's, the Italian restaurant

16:50

that features throughout the

16:50

series. And those those scenes

16:54

are as exciting emotionally and,

16:54

and the the like portraiture in

16:59

them is is incredible. And I

16:59

find myself longing to have

17:04

those martini with Dave, I mean,

17:04

it's kind of a funny thing. But

17:06

it's, that's not the kind of

17:06

reader and but I am now I guess

17:10

That says a lot.

17:10

And you kind of brought it up.

17:13

It's not only I would say

17:13

groundbreaking because he's a

17:17

gay main character. That was an

17:17

era - and there's gonna be

17:21

exceptions to this. So please

17:21

don't email me and tell me

17:23

there's exception to this. But

17:23

as a rule up until that time

17:27

period, it was hard boiled

17:27

mysteries, tough guys, they

17:31

drink and womanizing, or in

17:31

there, there were spinsters and

17:35

that sort of thing. And I am

17:35

generalizing. But we really

17:39

didn't start getting into their

17:39

personal lives until about that

17:43

time period. And the fact that

17:43

he was part of that transition,

17:49

and happened to be gay is to me,

17:49

what is the icing on?

17:52

It really is. And

17:52

I'd still say that, you know,

17:55

like, it's not something that's

17:55

perfectly done today even to you

17:58

know, it's, and he did it at

17:58

such a high level. You know, I

18:02

think one of there was, in one

18:02

of his interviews he mentioned,

18:05

you know, that there was a, he

18:05

liked Ross MacDonald and Lou

18:09

Archer, right. And there's

18:09

actually a lot of similarities

18:12

between them, you know, Hansen

18:12

was a poet. And I think

18:15

MacDonald had a keen interest in

18:15

poetry. And they both write with

18:20

the, the language is very

18:20

pretty, and the use of color and

18:24

imagery and is all evocative,

18:24

and if there's a similarity

18:27

there, but it ends with Lou

18:27

Archers a cipher, you know,

18:30

he's, he's, he's, uh, you know,

18:30

which, you know, what you're

18:33

getting with an arch every time

18:33

he's, he's on, you know, on,

18:36

he's on his case, in there's, I

18:36

love those books. But there's

18:40

something that Hansen, actually,

18:40

you know, wanted to do here is,

18:45

you know, where's his private

18:45

life who is Lou Archer, you

18:47

know, so he wanted to explore

18:47

the personal life, take a

18:51

detective character, and explore

18:51

the personal life as in depth

18:55

as, you know, the, the, the

18:55

mystery itself, and that's so

19:00

they're kind of 50/50 in that

19:00

sense that there's a, you know,

19:03

I tried to do that in my copy

19:03

too, for the books. I tried to

19:06

put, you know, the here's the

19:06

mystery part. And then here's

19:08

Dave's private life part. Just

19:08

so you know, what's going on?

19:12

Who's the new love in his life?

19:12

Whose is someone back? Who's

19:15

this that other kind of it

19:15

because all that stuff is

19:17

actually in the end? Just as

19:17

exciting as you know, the

19:19

mystery in many cases? To be

19:19

clear, the mysteries are great.

19:22

I'm not trying to I'm trying to

19:22

upsell the personal life, but

19:25

more than more than degrade the

19:25

mystery.

19:29

It has both, which

19:29

is what makes it awesome. Many

19:32

hold Hansen in high regards. And

19:32

we talked about you mentioned to

19:37

me before that critics really

19:37

praised his work when it came

19:41

out. But he struggled. It

19:41

didn't. His life didn't reflect

19:47

on the praise that he was

19:47

getting. Can you elaborate on

19:50

that?

19:51

Yeah, I think he

19:51

knew he had done something

19:53

special and every single outing

19:53

became more of a point of

19:57

frustration. To believe to be

19:57

delivering something at that

20:04

higher level for a mass

20:04

audience, right? He's not

20:06

writing avant garde. You know,

20:06

this isn't for an limited

20:11

audience. He's an unrealized

20:11

genius. This is a genius who's

20:14

writing, you know, for a mass

20:14

audience and not finding, right.

20:18

So he changed publishers a lot.

20:18

He had, you know, Joan Kahn was

20:21

his first publisher, and she was

20:21

a visionary and mystery

20:23

comedian, she published a lot of

20:23

firsts. She was a very daring

20:28

publisher and, you know,

20:28

published inmates and kind of

20:30

reached went all around to find

20:30

different points of view. But

20:35

even they, they had a falling

20:35

out on the end over, you know,

20:37

performance of the book and,

20:37

and, you know, plot points and

20:41

so on. And so he bounced around.

20:41

He, I think, you know, again,

20:46

Michael Nava in his introduction

20:46

he cites how many TV shows came

20:49

about from other crime writers

20:49

that were his peers, Tony

20:52

Hillerman, etc, etc. And yet,

20:52

Dave, who's immensely filmable,

20:57

never had a show. And it's no

20:57

secret why right? And yet it is,

21:00

right, it's it goes unsaid. And

21:00

I think that just added up to

21:04

him having a very frustrating

21:04

career with sales, having to

21:10

change publishers is never easy,

21:10

especially when, if you're, you

21:15

write your first four books for

21:15

one publisher, and then you

21:17

write your fifth book for

21:17

another. And now that publisher

21:21

only wants to sell that fifth

21:21

book and doesn't care about the

21:23

first four, and so on. And

21:23

everyone wants you to start over

21:26

with a standalone and all those

21:26

things, and he stuck to his

21:31

guns. And he told Dave story

21:31

must be frustrating. I think

21:35

you'll hear that in some of the

21:35

interviews with him. You know,

21:37

he comes off as warm and funny

21:37

about it. He has a sense of

21:40

humor about it to some extent.

21:40

But my day job when I'm not

21:44

working as publisher Syndicate

21:44

is as a publicist, and I know

21:47

how he really felt.

21:50

He died in the

21:50

early 2000s? In 2003. Do you

21:57

think he felt satisfied?

22:00

I can't speak to

22:00

that. I don't know. i It seems

22:02

that you know, it's a weird this

22:02

is what's weird about these

22:05

projects, you know, I kind of

22:05

do, as you send me getting like,

22:08

we try and be complete with our

22:08

reissuing of an author. And you

22:13

spend a lot of time with their

22:13

work. And you learn a bit about

22:16

them along the way. And some of

22:16

them have, you know, one of my

22:19

previous reissues, Ted Lewis,

22:19

author of Get Carter famous, you

22:22

know, Michael Caine adaptation

22:22

of that was a very difficult

22:25

person in life and hard to

22:25

understand, right? Not a lot of

22:28

biographical detail, until very

22:28

recently. And Margaret Millar

22:34

was another project worked on,

22:34

unfortunately later known as the

22:37

wife of Ross MacDonald. But

22:37

there was a reason why Ken

22:39

Millar changed his name because

22:39

she was bigger a lot of

22:42

information about her she was

22:42

named a grandmaster at on very

22:45

interesting interior life. But

22:45

you know, but with someone like

22:48

Joseph Hansen, there's, there's

22:48

details out there, but it's not

22:52

you know, that you just sometimes you spend a lot of time with the text, you get what

22:54

you you learn what you can, but

22:57

I couldn't, I wouldn't dare to

22:57

speak to his feelings about his

23:01

career, other than I assume, he

23:01

would have loved to have seen a

23:04

film adaptation and, and sales.

23:04

And, you know, you know, when

23:09

you read the books, you clearly

23:09

understand he was a gourmand,

23:12

and like, the finer things in

23:12

life, and I'm sure, you know,

23:15

movie deal, and some of the things would have made that easier to obtain. You know,

23:17

Dave's always in a nice new car.

23:23

I can assure you

23:23

that if they if he was

23:25

approached to do a movie deal in

23:25

the 70s, they would

23:28

want Oh, I believe

23:28

that was the case. I believe

23:30

that was the case. And he he,

23:30

you know, it's, it's

23:35

interesting, you know, he stuck

23:35

to his guns across the board. He

23:37

didn't write the expedient thing

23:37

or, you know, he, he wrote, he

23:43

maintained this character,

23:43

maintain the series. And, you

23:46

know, I, I think that warmth to

23:46

hearing his voice and hear those

23:49

interviews, and kind of the

23:49

chuckles he gets out, he knows

23:52

what he did, you know, I assume

23:52

he did, you know, I like to

23:55

think he knew what he achieved,

23:55

because not all artists get that

23:58

luxury. And it's not like, you

23:58

know, this wasn't Vincent van

24:01

Gogh, you know, it's, you know,

24:01

it's, you know, he was well

24:04

published just not not as

24:04

successful as you know, he

24:08

debuted on his the same list

24:08

included Tony Hillerman. And,

24:12

you know, Tony Hillman excellent

24:12

writer had gets all the acclaim

24:16

he deserves. Joe needed some of

24:16

that too, you know, or all of it

24:20

as well.

24:21

And he got two Lammy's. So,

24:22

did he did any he,

24:22

you know, Private Eye Writers of

24:26

America recognized him never won

24:26

an Edgar didn't wasn't a

24:29

grandmaster. Of for that wasn't,

24:29

you know, these are like, what

24:33

are this is? There's reasons,

24:33

right. There's always a reason

24:36

why it happens. But it, you

24:36

know, it's kind of hard not to

24:40

recognize what, what the

24:40

headwind his career faced was,

24:44

you know, and that's, that's

24:44

tragic. You know, today, it's

24:49

today he's entering, you know,

24:49

we're reaching these books in

24:51

the world. That's a lot more

24:51

interested. And having these

24:54

conversations Yes. And and

24:54

looking at this and being

24:57

interested in you know, there

24:57

was a review from Book Riot, you

25:02

know, kind of a big book

25:02

aggregating website, they do a

25:04

lot of reviews. And it's funny,

25:04

they included it, and around up

25:07

of What's New for the usual

25:07

suspects newsletter, and it had

25:10

all the, you know, kind of the

25:10

coded language of like what's,

25:13

you know, assumes a white POV

25:13

has statutory included all this

25:17

sort of stuff that occurs in the

25:17

book. And it's kind of the, it's

25:20

funny, that language, which when

25:20

I was reading, I was like, Ooh,

25:23

you know, statutory is rough.

25:23

That's, that sounds so, you

25:26

know, sounds so bad, but they

25:26

included it. And they would no

25:30

one would have ever included

25:30

that on a on a site like that

25:32

before. And it's because that

25:32

people are concerned about how

25:35

we use words and, and talking

25:35

about these experiences. So it's

25:38

kind of, you know, I was like a

25:38

defensive parent when I saw that

25:41

line that I was like, Well, it's

25:41

kind of true or whatever. You

25:44

know, who cares? But it uh,

25:44

that's also the reason why he's,

25:47

he's getting the attention he is now.

25:50

Well, I want to say it's not only great that you republish the books, I love the

25:51

new covers. They are updated,

25:57

yet reflect the era. And I

25:57

didn't actually realize until

26:01

late last night when I was

26:01

looking at the new cover of

26:04

Fadeout that he's standing on

26:04

the bridge. Yeah. Which I'm not

26:08

giving too much away. Because at

26:08

the very beginning, the story

26:12

involves a car going off a

26:12

bridge, so I saw that that made

26:14

me chuckle.

26:15

So it's, uh, yeah,

26:15

I've realized that that opening,

26:19

it's the he has all the

26:19

trappings of you know, it's

26:22

raining hat on, on the bridge.

26:22

It's the Arroyo is flooding.

26:27

It's West Coast Noir. Right?

26:27

It's just, it's perfect. Just,

26:31

and no, he does it so well. And

26:31

so we had to go there. The the

26:35

artist I work with his name is

26:35

Jeff Wong. And he's a longtime

26:39

graphic illustrator and does

26:39

amazing work. He actually did.

26:42

One of his biggest claims to

26:42

fame he did the 50th anniversary

26:45

of Sports Illustrated this big

26:45

gatefold Sistine Chapel of

26:49

sports and suggests really neat,

26:49

he's also a mystery, you know,

26:53

lover huge fan, Ross MacDonald.

26:53

It was fitting when we work

26:57

together on Margaret Millar, and

26:57

then there was kind of this

26:59

fitting thing here, too, with

26:59

with Joseph Hansen and his

27:04

thoughts on on his Jeff's love

27:04

of McDonald. But Jeff found an

27:08

artist that he wanted to kind of

27:08

evoke a Cole Phillips is an

27:11

American artist and illustrator

27:11

who did a lot of magazine work

27:15

and covers and advertisements,

27:15

and one of the signature, kind

27:20

of things he would do is very

27:20

detailed portraiture or

27:24

illustration, and then take a

27:24

color and pull it through an

27:28

interesting way. So we did that.

27:28

And obviously, we wanted to

27:30

evoke use rainbow imagery, and

27:30

then grayscale as he ages at the

27:35

end of it, so we're using kind

27:35

of a chromatic display also on

27:38

the books, but you'll see that

27:38

color use Jeff was very upset

27:42

when we were asked by some

27:42

various accounts to on

27:47

Skinflick, Jeff went for it. And

27:47

we had a bare bottom seen on the

27:54

cover, and they asked us to put

27:54

underwear on them and added a

27:56

added a pop of red to the cover

27:56

that he was, which should all be

27:59

blue. But it's it's fun. So

27:59

Jeff, Jeff's just great to work.

28:05

But He's ann old friend of mine.

28:05

And if you can't hear the

28:07

fondness and my voice, it's

28:07

there. I'm proud of what he did

28:10

with it.

28:12

Now you can hear

28:12

it, I'm gonna step aside to give

28:14

people an idea of what's coming

28:14

up with this show, and then wrap

28:17

some things up with you. So I

28:17

promised before I end the show,

28:21

I would explain what you'll

28:21

hear. When queer queer rose to

28:25

crime. I can't even say the name

28:25

of my show. Queer Writers of

28:28

Crime returns on a regular

28:28

basis. And here's the deal,

28:33

there are going to be not one

28:33

but two episodes every week,

28:37

there will be one episode that

28:37

will be strictly a guest

28:40

interview. So the show will

28:40

start and I'll jump in and start

28:44

talking to somebody. The second

28:44

episode is going to be shorter.

28:48

And you guessed it, it will be

28:48

the book recommendation part of

28:52

it. Now, these are all going to

28:52

be the first three weeks of

28:55

every month. A guest and a book

28:55

recommendation. The book

28:58

recommendations are going to be

28:58

a rotating group of individuals

29:02

that give the book

29:02

recommendations. Now some of you

29:05

may be asking or wondering what

29:05

happened to Justene. And here's

29:10

the deal, Justene and I had a

29:10

very difficult time getting

29:13

together. She's she's very busy,

29:13

and I'm very busy. So when I

29:17

told her the show is coming

29:17

back, she said I can do it once

29:20

a month. So one of the three

29:20

weeks, it will always be

29:24

Justene. So if you loved her

29:24

recommendations, and I know a

29:28

ton of you did, because you let

29:28

me know, be happy to know she

29:31

will be back at least one week

29:31

of every month. Now for the

29:35

fourth week of the month, you're

29:35

just going to have to wait. And

29:38

that will be a surprise. So it's

29:38

a little bit different. There's

29:42

only gonna be one episode on the

29:42

fourth of each month. If you

29:45

want to go to the blog on the

29:45

website, I'll give a little more

29:49

thorough description of what's

29:49

going on. But really, I wouldn't

29:52

suggest it because here's what I

29:52

think you should do. Whatever

29:56

app you're right on right now.

29:56

Just hit the Follow button and

29:59

then You don't have to worry about damn thing when there's a new episode - boop, there it is.

30:01

So that's what I suggest to do,

30:05

and not put up charts on the

30:05

wall trying to figure out what

30:07

what episodes are when. The

30:07

other addition is there will now

30:11

be a weekly Queer Writers of

30:11

Crime newsletter. And you'll get

30:16

info about the episodes, plus

30:16

announcements of new book

30:20

releases, and special

30:20

promotions. So, Greg Herren was

30:25

kind enough to offer an e book

30:25

copy of Bourbon Street Blues,

30:30

which is the first in his iconic

30:30

Scott Bradley Mystery series.

30:35

And for a limited time, you can

30:35

get your copy when you sign up

30:40

for the newsletter. And so folks

30:40

know, this is the end of

30:43

February of 2022. It's a limited

30:43

time, the link is in the show

30:48

notes and get your free book and

30:48

you'll get in the newsletter.

30:51

Let me take a deep breath.

30:51

Here's another thing. You likely

30:56

know Richard Stevenson. He is

30:56

the author of The Donald

30:59

Strachey series that started

30:59

back in 1981. And is still going

31:03

today. A while back, Richard

31:03

emailed me because he was

31:07

excited. And what he was excited

31:07

about is Amble Press, which

31:12

Michael Nava is the Managing

31:12

Editor agreed to publish the

31:16

first of a new Richard Stevenson

31:16

series. Yes, it is 2022. And

31:23

Richard is starting a new

31:23

series. That's pretty amazing.

31:27

So I was given a copy of Knock

31:27

off the Hat. And it met my

31:31

expectations, so I asked Richard

31:31

to come back on the show. And he

31:35

said he had such a great time

31:35

before that, he'd love to come

31:39

back. So he is going to be one

31:39

of the guests in March. So

31:43

here's something for you to do.

31:43

Go to Queer Writers of Crime dot

31:47

Com the website. And on the

31:47

website in the bottom right

31:51

corner, there's a little blue

31:51

microphone, and you have to use

31:55

a microphone, don't send me a message. Click on that mic, and leave a

31:58

question for Richard Stevenson.

32:03

And I will play as many of them

32:03

on the air. And we'll have

32:07

Richard answer your questions.

32:07

And here's an incentive for you

32:11

to do the microphone. As maybe

32:11

you know, Michael Nava was the

32:15

second guest on the show back in

32:15

2019. He's been back a few

32:19

times. And he's been a big

32:19

supporter of this podcast. And

32:24

he was kind enough to send me a

32:24

box of copies of signed editions

32:30

of Lies with Man. So if you

32:30

leave a message for Richard

32:34

Stevenson, I will do a drawing.

32:34

And two people will win a copy

32:41

of Lies with Man autographed by

32:41

Michael Nava. So you can't pass

32:45

that up. However, because of the

32:45

ridiculous shipping cost, this

32:49

offer is only within the United

32:49

States. I apologize. If you live

32:53

outside the US. I haven't

32:53

discussed it with Michael, but

32:56

I'm sure he'll send you an

32:56

eBook. Unfortunately, he can't

33:00

sign the eBook, but we'll get

33:00

one for you. So, I hope those

33:03

get you in. And that said it was

33:03

a lot. So if you didn't catch it

33:07

all, go to the website and go to

33:07

the blog. And there'll be more

33:11

details. And, Paul, I gotta tell

33:11

you, I just broke one of the big

33:14

rules in podcasting. I don't

33:14

know if you know what it is.

33:18

I don't know.

33:19

It's what we call a

33:19

call to action at the end of an

33:21

episode. And you're supposed to

33:21

stick to one. And I just dumped

33:26

a ton of them on there. It's

33:26

only because I'm excited to

33:30

bring this show back.

33:33

That's a lot, a lot.

33:36

So I'm going to

33:36

leave the link also in the show

33:39

notes to Syndicate Books. So

33:39

they can pull up the website and

33:43

see the beautiful covers of and

33:43

you give a description of the

33:48

different novels. They can also

33:48

look at the some of the other

33:50

authors that you have republished as well, because you've got some greats on there

33:52

as well. I do want to thank you

33:55

very much for your time. As I

33:55

said, I'm thrilled that you're

33:58

bringing back the series and I

33:58

am going to start with one and

34:01

read them all again.

34:03

Thanks, Brad. I've

34:03

thanks so much for having me on.

34:06

This was a pleasure.

34:06

It was my pleasure as well.