0:04

Hello world , hello here

0:06

. This is

0:08

clearly incorrect .

0:15

That's what a mother's job is . You

0:22

know , you don't reconcile that in your brain

0:24

. In a day I

0:31

was an extremely strict dean of

0:33

students . Nobody

0:41

kept getting their thoughts and prayers either , buddy , we

0:49

used to laugh about how many girlfriends you had

0:51

. Well

0:57

, i was being a little shit .

1:07

Before we get going today , i

1:09

have to ask you are

1:13

you ready ? Because

1:16

I did something

1:18

that I

1:20

think is pretty scary to

1:23

most of us . I

1:27

interviewed my mother . Yeah

1:31

, do you remember

1:34

to like subscribe rate

1:36

review ? you know . Send

1:39

a link to a friend , yeah

1:43

, yeah , you know , just

1:45

pick out an episode they like and like whoosh . Just

1:48

hit that share button and there

1:50

it goes . There it goes . Maybe you

1:52

know post it on your social media . You

1:56

know that that'd be cool . You

1:59

can always email me at queery incorrect

2:01

at gmailcom with questions

2:04

, comments , concerns , i don't care whatever

2:06

. Shoot me a message . If you'd

2:08

like to support queer media , please

2:11

make a donation on Cash App . Just

2:13

follow the support the show link . I'm

2:18

going to drop a content warning for this one

2:20

. We

2:22

talk about gun violence in here , so

2:24

if that's not your thing right now , i

2:27

understand . With

2:30

a youthful exuberance , i

2:34

give you Dean

2:38

mom . Hello

2:44

everybody , welcome

2:46

to the show . I have one hell of

2:48

a treat for you . My

2:53

mother is here .

2:55

Hello everybody .

2:56

Mother , what do you want people to call you ? Should

2:59

we name you ?

3:00

What would you like to call me ?

3:01

We can say your name .

3:02

Okay , that's fine .

3:03

Linda , linda My mother's name is Linda

3:05

.

3:07

Yeah , I've used that once or twice .

3:09

I'm not just bringing my mom on for the fun of it , but

3:11

it is pretty fun . She looks so nervous

3:13

right now . It's great .

3:15

I'm not nervous .

3:17

She says that , but she has

3:19

a grin . Anyways

3:21

, my mother was

3:24

the Dean of Students . Tell me about your

3:26

job at the school forever .

3:29

I was the Dean of Students at a

3:31

performing arts school for

3:33

20 years . In that

3:35

20 years , i was head

3:37

of student services , dean of

3:39

Students , head

3:42

of I don't know just about everything I think

3:44

. So , yeah , that's

3:47

what I did for 22 years .

3:49

I'm bringing this up because , well

3:51

, it's a performing arts school and it's

3:53

in Florida and it's a conservative area , so it's

3:55

kind of a queer magnet or even

3:57

just a place for

4:00

parents who don't want their kids to grow up with like rednecks

4:02

.

4:03

Yes , when we originally

4:05

opened because we're

4:07

a very diverse area it was

4:09

called the Great White Escape because

4:13

everyone thought that the school

4:15

was only going to accept Caucasian

4:17

children , and it's actually not

4:19

what happened at all .

4:21

No , it's a very diverse place

4:24

, very diverse . I

4:26

was actually in the first class

4:28

there ever . Yes , i went to seventh

4:31

and eighth grade there , which

4:33

I believe you took me out of Lincoln

4:35

. Well , because of the shooting

4:37

.

4:37

Because of the shooting . It's the reason

4:39

I had nothing to do with the area or the

4:41

population of Lincoln And I think what

4:43

I found out was that a child's records

4:45

were I think it was

4:47

seven weeks behind the

4:51

child being rolled in school And

4:54

the student was very violent and

4:56

should have never been allowed in . And

4:59

actually there was

5:01

a girl that we all knew very well . A

5:04

bullet went I mean she felt it pass

5:06

her ear And

5:09

her husband's cousin hit under a desk . Lauren

5:13

put a waist basket on her head

5:15

And that was .

5:17

I did .

5:17

You most certainly did . And what was funny about it

5:19

? it was one of those wire

5:22

ones . We've laughed

5:24

about that for years . You don't remember doing

5:26

that .

5:27

I remember getting under my desk and

5:29

not the waist basket but a wire like

5:31

book holder .

5:32

Maybe it was a wire book Like my head getting

5:34

stuck on that . Yes , so that's

5:36

been something

5:39

that we've laughed about for many years . But yes

5:41

, when the charter school opened

5:43

, i immediately enrolled

5:46

her , just so that I

5:48

just didn't want to be part of that , and I remember

5:50

how long ago that was . That was a

5:53

very unusual occurrence .

5:55

That was two

5:57

years before Columbine , I believe So

6:00

.

6:00

It's been a while .

6:01

It's been a while , but I say that because this

6:04

was really before gun violence

6:06

.

6:07

Well , it's any type of issue . Yeah , it wasn't what it is

6:09

in America . We just totally

6:11

freaked . All the parents , we all totally

6:14

freaked about this . Yeah .

6:16

So back then they

6:18

didn't talk to us about it at

6:20

all .

6:22

Yeah , but nobody kept you in their thoughts and prayers

6:24

either , buddy , that's .

6:25

Well , I'm at the school .

6:27

It's like it wasn't a thing .

6:29

They didn't even acknowledge it . They didn't

6:31

talk about it on the announcements . We

6:33

were just left to deal with it on our own

6:35

.

6:36

Well , that's because no one knew the appropriate

6:39

way to handle this

6:41

And I believe as parents we all receive

6:43

letters about

6:45

it Back then . They actually would send you stuff

6:47

through the mail about , you know , making

6:50

sure we spoke to our children and

6:52

made sure they were okay with things . I

6:55

don't even think they offered counselors back

6:57

then to y'all at school , that was

6:59

. It was put on the parents to make sure , which that's

7:02

fine I mean , that's our job But

7:04

it was made clear that we need to make sure our kids were

7:06

okay .

7:07

To follow this up . It's slightly uncomfortable

7:09

, but I think it's relevant

7:12

. When Ken Ellis Yes

7:15

, so , ken Ellis was a

7:17

teacher . I worked at that school

7:19

for a while , in many capacities too , especially

7:21

through college , and Ken Ellis

7:24

was a teacher there And

7:26

he was murdered in a robbery .

7:28

Gone wrong ?

7:29

Yes , But , we didn't actually know

7:31

that for many years We just knew that somebody

7:33

shot him .

7:35

It wasn't it was about . They

7:37

closed that up in about a year .

7:39

I didn't .

7:40

Yes , it was a game . The

7:44

group of teenage boys were seeing

7:46

how many houses

7:48

they could break into And I

7:50

, you know , i'm not positive

7:54

of all these facts . This happened

7:56

years ago , but anyway , he

7:59

just ended up getting shot in the game , basically

8:01

.

8:01

What I heard , yeah

8:03

, was that there was some

8:06

big event going

8:08

on that was distracting the police in that county

8:10

, and so they , these two young

8:12

guys , decided to see how many

8:14

houses they could rob .

8:16

And Ken .

8:17

Ellis taught history and he also instructed

8:19

Taekwondo , And

8:22

so when someone knocked on his door with a gun , as

8:24

I was told and I don't know if you could know this or not

8:26

, but he took his fighting

8:29

stance and so the guy just shot him .

8:32

I have never heard that , but

8:34

.

8:34

I might have read that .

8:36

You might have read that . I have not heard

8:38

that now . You

8:41

have to remember that I was part of dealing with his

8:43

wife and his family And

8:45

actually one of the hardest things

8:47

I ever had to do was close his room

8:49

because I had to go through every

8:52

paper in it . So

8:54

you know , make sure that his children

8:57

receive some and his wife

8:59

and former students there were so many . He

9:02

was well loved and respected .

9:05

And I very much loved Ken Ellis .

9:07

Yes , Everybody did . You

9:09

know , the man never raised his

9:11

voice And

9:14

he taught children Taekwondo and

9:16

made them responsible And most of his kids

9:19

that he had for about

9:21

seven years . Those kids have

9:23

done things with their lives and they've turned

9:25

out overwhelmingly to be good people .

9:27

Yeah .

9:28

I mean they really have , And he was

9:30

part of that .

9:32

I remember very distinctly at

9:34

the service When I was very

9:36

honored to work the service

9:39

. I felt that

9:41

was nice . But his students came

9:43

and did a Taekwondo

9:45

presentation . I don't think I've ever seen like

9:47

it was perfect

9:49

. They were so serious .

9:52

And they promoted him to the next level . Those

9:54

instructors came and promoted him to the

9:56

next level of black

9:59

belt , which was seven

10:01

or something , i don't remember It was really high . This

10:03

was many , many years ago .

10:05

But anyways , I bring this up because

10:07

this was in the

10:10

early 2000s . Yeah

10:13

15

10:15

years , or not 15 years later , maybe from

10:17

the Lincoln event , but

10:20

I remember that

10:22

school was descended upon by

10:24

mental health workers .

10:26

Oh yeah , But now the county

10:29

sent those And by that time

10:31

things had changed

10:33

in just that few number of years there

10:35

, because you had colobine happen and

10:38

different other things And violence in schools

10:40

was just , it was

10:42

becoming a predominant

10:45

thing

10:47

. That just was happening all the time . My

10:50

training at that time I

10:52

went through training every year about

10:56

how I need to deal with violence

10:58

in schools . So I was

11:00

in charge of the safety of the students

11:02

and teachers and the staff in the school And

11:05

so I was sent every year for training

11:07

and to be updated . And I mean some

11:09

of those trainings were ran by the

11:11

FBI and Homeland Security

11:14

and agencies like that

11:16

were involved in these

11:18

And you would pick and choose which one you wanted to

11:20

go to for

11:23

your school's needs . So , yes , I

11:26

had a lot of training in that area and

11:28

the training were full

11:30

to capacity . If you wanted

11:33

to take a certain class , buddy , you better be there

11:35

and get there , because at that point

11:37

everybody was training their administrative

11:39

staff .

11:41

Yeah , so that's , yes , all right

11:43

. Well , there was that arc Arc

11:46

, yes , i know . Yeah

11:49

, I felt that was good to talk about because

11:52

we do have kind of a personal life experience

11:54

with that change in society . But

11:57

also I want to talk to you about the queerness

11:59

of the school and queer

12:01

kids And I don't

12:03

know what are your thoughts on just that at all . Do

12:05

you have anything to say ?

12:07

About the school and how

12:09

they .

12:10

All right . So when I went there , People's life choices

12:13

. People's life choices Yeah .

12:14

Well , that was a thing . The people

12:17

who opened the school

12:19

were theater people . They've

12:21

been , you know , and their children were

12:23

always in dance and theater

12:26

, and you had lifelong

12:28

dance teachers on your board of

12:31

directors . So you had teachers

12:33

that were gay , which was pretty much unheard

12:36

of for a teacher to be openly gay in

12:38

a school back then .

12:40

Mr G , the very first year we

12:42

had a gay teacher .

12:43

Yeah , and as the teachers

12:45

became more comfortable that was actually never

12:47

a thing there , and that's when

12:50

the school opened . The

12:52

idea was that

12:54

everybody anybody

12:57

who was interested in having

12:59

an education

13:02

in the arts as well as an academic

13:04

education could come to this

13:06

school , and it didn't Nothing

13:08

else mattered . You know

13:10

, race wasn't an issue , preference

13:13

wasn't an issue , one of those things . It was just

13:15

like let's all come here , get along and

13:18

do our thing , and that's exactly

13:20

what happened for probably the first 10 years

13:22

that the school was open .

13:24

Which is wonderful .

13:25

I mean well for those 10 years .

13:26

For those 10 years , yeah , if

13:29

you can get it to stay . But

13:31

yeah , i remember . So I went there for two years

13:33

and went there for seventh grade

13:35

, which was their first year open , and it was just sixth

13:37

and seventh . So the next year they extended

13:40

to eighth grade and I went there

13:42

, and then after that they waited a

13:44

year to go up And so I went

13:46

to a regular high school . But

13:48

I don't think I would have been

13:51

so confident and self-assured in so

13:54

many things in regular high

13:56

school , having not had that experience of

13:59

things like not

14:01

being called names for being , you know

14:03

, not manly and

14:06

shit like that .

14:07

Well , you had a brother who would have shoved somebody's head

14:09

into a locker if they said something

14:11

to you too .

14:12

Yeah , But they were

14:14

like Carmen was gone by the time I got into high school

14:16

.

14:16

That's true .

14:18

I didn't go to school with them .

14:19

That's right .

14:21

Yeah .

14:21

But you had a friend . You

14:24

had a friend that would have .

14:25

Oh yeah , who , Keith ? Oh yeah , i

14:28

had plenty of friends that would in the long run

14:30

.

14:30

But that's how .

14:31

I fit in And in the end it was just kind of by

14:33

being nice to everybody .

14:35

What's a better way to fit in , though ? I mean

14:37

, being nice to people is how we all should

14:39

act .

14:42

It is All right . I

14:44

don't know . I was hoping

14:46

there would be more out of school queerness , but

14:48

Well , we can .

14:50

What happened there is because it wasn't

14:52

an issue People

14:55

who had made these decisions , even though

14:57

they're young . What you found is is

15:00

in that atmosphere , the parents

15:02

. Over my years I have

15:04

helped children tell a

15:06

lot of parents that they

15:08

were gay And the

15:10

reactions I've seen

15:13

have usually

15:15

been favorable . I mean , they

15:18

didn't always like it , but

15:21

overall they

15:24

would end up being supportive . But

15:26

you also have to remember it wasn't

15:28

a kid at 14 at

15:31

home telling

15:33

the Redneck dad either . The Redneck

15:35

dad was sitting in an office with

15:38

an adult who understood what the child was

15:40

going through . We had other people

15:42

that were more than willing to sit in if needed

15:44

. So I

15:47

think it was presented to them in a very positive

15:49

way

15:51

that this wasn't going to affect anything

15:54

except the

15:56

child's choice . I think because of

15:58

the way it was presented most of the time And I had many

16:01

of those parents come back and talk to me after

16:04

the initial conversation It

16:06

wasn't one of the least favorite things

16:09

I had to do . I can tell you I always

16:11

felt like I was being helpful because

16:13

so many kids were so afraid to tell

16:15

their parents . I mean , they were just petrified

16:17

And I would say well , do your parents

16:20

ever say things about

16:23

? are they prejudiced against gay people or are they

16:25

prejudiced against black people ? And

16:27

what's get this conversation going about ? what you actually

16:30

hear at home . And sometimes before

16:32

the parents get there , you could get the student relaxed

16:34

a little bit , because they'd never heard their parents

16:37

. They had just decided

16:39

that telling them this was going to be

16:41

a horrible experience . But they really didn't

16:43

have anything to base that on And

16:46

to say that they were all favorable . That's

16:48

absolutely not true either , but

16:51

I think it was all the way it was presented . But

16:53

a lot of the younger gay children

16:56

would go oh

16:58

, they're going to disown me And I would always

17:00

talk to them about what leads you to that assumption

17:02

. Why do you think

17:04

that's going to be the outcome ? And

17:07

I also let them know that if that was

17:09

the outcome , there were other things

17:11

we could do that they weren't going to

17:13

be kicked out on the street . Often

17:18

children ended up in our homes . So

17:22

because we were in that type of environment

17:24

, you had a staff there that

17:27

if a child had

17:29

that sort of need , it was taken care of . Once

17:31

again , i just wish all schools could

17:34

be like that , but I live in Florida and , as you

17:36

know , there will be no schools in

17:38

Florida like that anymore , so which

17:42

makes me sick to my stomach . But

17:44

we actually had , as

17:46

years went on and

17:48

the fact that no one cared , we

17:50

had transgender kids on prom court

17:53

. I think one year we even had a transgender

17:55

prom king .

17:56

I believe so .

17:57

And nobody cared . But it was because

17:59

of the way the school started . It

18:02

was all about the beginning . No

18:04

one cared from the very beginning . what we

18:06

cared about was behavior . But

18:08

, believe it or not , i was an

18:11

extremely strict dean of students

18:13

. I mean , i didn't take any crap from anybody

18:15

. You came there . It was a

18:17

privilege to walk through those doors , it

18:19

was a privilege to be offered dance

18:22

and art and music And other

18:24

than that . that's what I wanted to care about

18:26

. And if you did all of those things and

18:28

went into English and sat down

18:30

and behaved for your teacher

18:32

, we were all good . And I

18:35

am in touch with an unbelievable

18:37

amount of my students to this

18:39

day .

18:40

I am too . Honestly . if

18:42

anybody out there knows any of my old

18:44

students , you can

18:46

ask them . I was incredibly strict as

18:48

well , but also very

18:51

approachable and likeable , And I wasn't going to

18:53

get you in trouble for things like you're

18:55

a child . Everybody makes mistakes

18:57

. Everybody has bad days

18:59

. I mean that really started my

19:01

teaching journey back in the days And the

19:03

Peace Corps . I was an educator . I've

19:07

worked in and around education so much And

19:09

that's kind of what got me started And

19:11

I do think it was helped by

19:13

that kind of environment that existed at

19:15

that time .

19:17

It was an environment where you were expected

19:19

to do what needed to be done , but

19:22

you would be supported no

19:24

matter what was going on . And

19:27

so every student knew

19:29

that . yes , they

19:31

named me the compassionate hard-ass , but

19:34

they all knew that you

19:36

darn well better sit down

19:38

and take your lunch tray to the trash can and

19:40

not throw it on the floor . But on the other

19:42

hand , if you didn't

19:45

have food at home , you

19:47

could come to my office and you'd darn sure

19:49

have food at home . Your

19:51

water bill would be paid , things

19:54

like that . You're showering at your aunt's house

19:57

. Well , we'll see if we can't work that out

19:59

. So I

20:01

think that that . what do

20:04

I say ?

20:05

the balance .

20:06

The balance worked really well

20:08

for our students .

20:10

And teach like a champion . They call that warm , strict

20:12

.

20:12

Yeah , is

20:14

that what I am Warm strict , warm strict .

20:16

No , when I read those books when I was in the

20:19

Peace Corps , it

20:21

was amazing because like half of them were

20:24

things that I had literally

20:26

told other people to do as teaching

20:28

techniques . So like I had them that

20:30

well defined in my head , i just called them something else

20:32

.

20:33

Yeah .

20:34

And it was really validated actually , and

20:38

I imagine you would have a similar experience .

20:41

It's just the way I think . It's

20:46

just the way I think about everything . You

20:49

know that , as a parent , you

20:52

guys got away with murder , but there were certain

20:54

things I expected you to do And

20:56

we sat down and you ate the three

20:58

of you ate dinner together at night . you took your bath

21:00

, you went to bed and until

21:03

you were teenagers and

21:05

we just don't even need to talk- about that . You

21:09

came from that organized

21:11

. This is what we

21:13

do next , which I

21:15

think is what children need So

21:17

a lot

21:19

of love , a lot of playing , a lot of trips , a

21:21

lot of everything . But you

21:24

know , i expected my kids to behave .

21:26

Well , I mean , I remember fondly going

21:29

camping all the time .

21:30

All the time .

21:31

I know now , that was , you know , a money saving effort . It

21:34

didn't have to be like I don't know

21:36

that it was I have nothing but fond memories of this is what

21:38

I'm saying .

21:39

That was so much fun And

21:41

we went with the same families all the

21:43

time that had children y'all's age And

21:46

we are from Florida and people like to camp , So

21:49

it was just fun .

21:50

Yeah , we did like once a month most of the year .

21:52

And you know you guys learned a lot

21:54

from that too . Most of the parents

21:57

there were like minds where they wanted their

21:59

kids to play . They wanted them to go out and have

22:01

knives and , you know , make fire pits

22:03

and build huts and stuff

22:05

like that , without somebody up their butt all

22:07

the time . you know And you know

22:09

that's how you learn to survive .

22:11

It is .

22:12

And nowadays my God , you know .

22:14

Well , it's like I was in Boy Scouts . I got lucky

22:16

with my troop , yeah . But also

22:19

if it wasn't for other , like anti-queerness

22:21

stuff , i would love the Boy Scouts because I

22:23

feel I had a really positive experience learning

22:26

all those life skills . And then again I've had adventures

22:28

in my life where I was

22:30

confident in them , like I was so much more confident

22:32

starting the Appalachian Trail

22:34

Because I had had that experience

22:37

and because of that experience it helped me in Peace

22:39

Corps . I mean , i climbed Kilimanjaro

22:41

. It's

22:43

cool , you know I've done stuff .

22:44

Well , that's what we do , is we build on our

22:47

life's experiences And that's

22:49

how it's supposed to work . Look how

22:51

long your brother stayed

22:53

in the Scouts . Yeah , And

22:55

he was a cool guy , football player and all that

22:57

nonsense at all . I don't mean

22:59

that He actually

23:02

loved that group of boys and they stayed together

23:04

until you know

23:06

they couldn't any longer . So , yeah

23:09

, they were friends in their 30s . They're still

23:11

friends .

23:12

When Tristan had moved to Orlando or

23:15

something and I was in high school

23:17

, it was those friends

23:19

of Tristan's that I knew from Scouts and that had known

23:22

me as a child that bought me beer .

23:28

This is a long time ago , i

23:30

know .

23:32

I mean , if someone's going to do it . It was like

23:34

they bought me a six pack

23:36

. Not enough to kill me . You know what

23:38

I mean , Anyways

23:40

. So thinking , all right

23:42

, just how your mind works , and all that funness

23:44

. Let's talk about what I've been building

23:47

up to .

23:47

Okay .

23:48

When I came out to you . Now I know

23:51

there's a lot of other shit going on .

23:53

Yeah , a little bit .

23:54

So I

23:56

remember distinctly what you said , Do you ?

23:58

Yeah .

23:59

So tell everybody what happened from your perspective .

24:02

Well , I was being a little shit

24:04

from my perspective , not

24:06

in a very good mood and

24:08

walked behind me and

24:10

said Mom , you know I'm trans , Is

24:14

that how you remember it ?

24:15

No .

24:16

How do you remember it ?

24:17

I remember picking you up from the airport and

24:20

having pink hair and

24:22

looking very different .

24:25

And I gave you a hug and said , Mom , I'm trans

24:28

. Now , you said it in the living

24:30

room , didn't you ?

24:31

I might have told you again later .

24:32

You might have .

24:33

But I've initially said it .

24:36

But I do remember what I said when you told

24:38

me . I said , you know , i don't care about

24:40

that You said I love you .

24:41

You know I don't care about that .

24:43

You know I don't care about that And I don't , so

24:46

I don't know why . but

24:48

well , i guess I do know why . I

24:50

mean , as a child , you were always

24:54

extremely intelligent and

24:56

you never quite . you

24:58

always wanted to hang out with the adults And

25:01

you never really clicked with

25:03

kids your own age because you were smarter than

25:05

, frankly . Do you remember going

25:07

to ? I took you to a

25:09

child psychologist to help you interact

25:12

with children your own age . I do

25:14

remember that , yeah , so we

25:17

had all that And I'd never forget as long as I live

25:19

. You could give you a math problem

25:21

and you'd go like

25:24

that and you'd go I'm figuring it out in my

25:26

mouth And then you would , you

25:29

know , make marks in front of you . And

25:31

I asked you about it one day when you were a little bit

25:33

older , because I don't think at that point

25:35

you actually understood And

25:38

you said you could see it when you took

25:40

your finger and made the in

25:42

the air . And that's how

25:44

you were , from the time you were little

25:47

, little little two years old

25:49

. So I always knew

25:52

that you were always interested

25:55

in absolutely everything . You

25:58

know , you had tons of girlfriends

26:00

I did . Girls loved you And

26:03

you were kind of geeky . So

26:05

Carmen and I would always go

26:07

. Well , it must be . His brains

26:10

are attracted to his brains . You know , we

26:13

used to laugh about how many girlfriends you had . You

26:16

know , i think that I always knew that

26:18

but I didn't know . Honest to God

26:20

, i didn't . I mean , i knew but I didn't know

26:22

what . How does that sound ? Is that right

26:24

?

26:25

That fits exactly . My experience is

26:27

that , like I knew , i wasn't like

26:29

a regular dude in some way .

26:31

Right .

26:32

But I also knew I wasn't a gay man , and

26:35

then I ran out of options .

26:36

We'll see .

26:37

You know , because at the time it wasn't a thing .

26:40

Well , your sister and I did talk about you being

26:42

gay , was that the thing ? And we both

26:44

agreed that we

26:46

didn't think that was it . And

26:49

you know , to be honest with you , we never talked about

26:51

you being transgender . We , we , and

26:53

we never really talked a lot about the gay

26:55

thing either , because Carmen's just like I am

26:57

. She didn't care , she didn't care , so

27:00

it was Carmen's best friends is a

27:02

gay man . Yeah , oh yeah

27:04

, that's absolutely true . But you know

27:06

we didn't . It was just not

27:09

a thing in our family to worry about things like

27:11

that . But then my mother is

27:14

about as open

27:17

and liberal as a human being can be . She's

27:19

93 and my growing

27:21

up her best friend she

27:24

was a social worker . So her best friend was a black

27:26

social worker and

27:29

her other

27:31

best friend was a gay

27:33

male and his partner . So

27:36

these these are things that in my life

27:38

was never a thing at all . It's

27:40

just this is . my mom was like that . However

27:43

, her family is not like that at all , not even close

27:46

. They are just horrible

27:48

. So we'll not horrible . I don't

27:51

want to say that either , but they were very much . I'll

27:53

never hear this .

27:54

They'll never hear this . Who ? I

27:57

do not have that much reach . What do you mean ? Anybody

28:00

who might know who we're talking about and feel offended

28:02

. Oh , okay , yeah , don't worry about it .

28:04

Yeah Well , okay , i don't want to offend anybody

28:06

, but I have an

28:08

aunt whose husband would sit out in the

28:10

driveway In a lawn

28:12

chair with a rifle , and he

28:14

told me this himself . This isn't anything

28:17

anybody and my brothers or sisters can

28:19

dispute . Uncle Oral

28:21

told me this himself because he

28:23

had a black man that threw his paper in his

28:25

driveway And he wanted to make sure that nothing went

28:27

wrong . Yep , so

28:30

my mom Made

28:32

the choice not to be that kind of person

28:35

, and I don't think

28:37

my grandparents were really . I mean

28:39

, if somebody's gay , they would have just lost their

28:41

shit totally . But I think

28:43

that you know they were products

28:45

of the time . Yeah so you know

28:47

that is what it is . But so , as

28:49

I'm saying , is the way your sister is

28:52

, i am . You know , we have to attribute

28:54

to my mother , because she taught us

28:56

that all people Are the same

28:58

.

28:58

I have been saying this so much and

29:00

just yeah , like if you have love in your heart

29:02

, you can start generations

29:05

and generations and just so many people

29:07

That have love in their

29:09

heart . And even if

29:11

you know like you struggle With

29:14

with an iste or anism of

29:16

hating somebody , yeah , don't show your kids

29:18

. Lie about

29:20

it to your kids . Let them

29:22

only see the love and that's what they'll know .

29:25

Yeah , i just think my mom , her

29:27

mother , was a tyrant and I just think that

29:29

she was going to make sure That

29:32

she didn't carry on that in any way . And she did

29:34

not . Was my childhood

29:36

perfect ? by no stretch of the imagination

29:39

. She was divorced . There were six of us . We were extremely

29:41

poor , but

29:43

what I did see is her go to work

29:45

two and three jobs . What

29:47

I did see was my older brother , who's

29:50

seven years older than I , am stepping up and taking care . You

29:52

know , in my next brother too , you know all my older

29:54

siblings . They

29:56

had a part in raising the younger ones

29:58

and I just think that makes you more understanding About

30:01

all of these different things . That nobody's world

30:03

is perfect , you know , and from that

30:05

it was one of your brothers that I

30:08

was .

30:08

I was worried about Um not accepting me when

30:10

I came out . But Lydia

30:12

talked to them and When

30:18

I saw them I mean it was funny . They tried so hard

30:20

, like they were thinking about pronouns so much They

30:23

misgendered me like six times in a sentence

30:26

, fumbling , trying not to , and I about died over laughing and I

30:28

found myself Touched

30:30

and that's like that was the person I

30:33

was worried about in our family .

30:36

Well , two of my brothers I was

30:38

a little worried about abandoned . As far as

30:40

I'm concerned , both of them have been

30:42

great . Yeah , I mean , I mean absolutely

30:44

, absolutely great , and I

30:46

you know I will always Appreciate

30:50

the fact .

30:51

I don't even think Jim fucking has ever commented

30:53

on it .

30:53

Jim Don't care . Yeah , jim No care .

30:58

Just Jim don't care . Jim , don't care Ray

31:01

has been nothing but positive .

31:03

Oh , and when I call you Lauren , i'm

31:06

grandfather did uh , yeah , it's

31:08

totally cool people . He'll

31:11

say low .

31:13

And if you , if you're listening , my

31:15

mother will also occasionally misgender

31:18

me . I was a boy in her life

31:20

for 32 years . Yes she tries

31:22

really hard not to . I totally okay , people

31:24

. That's the point is that she tries

31:26

. I do try yeah , you

31:28

give it an honest effort , so what else do I care

31:30

?

31:31

and um , i don't you

31:33

know the all honesty , like

31:35

that , i'm

31:38

not thinking , it's

31:41

just , it's what . I called you

31:43

for 32 years . I I'm not even thinking

31:45

about boy girl . Yeah , it doesn't have anything to do with that

31:47

.

31:48

Yeah , I'm just your kid .

31:50

You're just my kid , so yeah , um

31:52

, so You know I'm gonna

31:55

say this to everybody . I've actually

31:57

had to say this to some of students along

31:59

the way . Is that Just because

32:01

somebody misgendered you

32:03

? look at the person And

32:06

understand . It's not always intentional

32:08

. They're not always trying to prove a point , they

32:10

just misgendered you . It's as simple

32:12

as that . And it happens , not

32:15

to say there's not a bunch of wicked people out there

32:17

, but there's always two sides

32:19

to everyone , man .

32:20

I just think that yeah , give people

32:22

a little grace . You never

32:24

know , and sometimes someone

32:26

trying and failing

32:28

Is the best option

32:30

you have at the moment . And so just

32:33

Let them try , don't hate them .

32:36

It's just like one of the things that Lauren's

32:38

had to realize is that

32:40

he was my male child . She

32:42

was my male child for 32 years , but

32:45

her brother . We lost her brother

32:47

six years ago . So the

32:49

only photographs that I have of

32:53

Lauren With

32:55

Tristan and Carmen is

32:58

, you know , when

33:01

she still was a male . So I

33:03

can't get rid of this . I can't take this down

33:05

for my own personal sanity

33:07

. I have to have my three children

33:10

together , and so that's

33:12

how we do it , and I hope that doesn't bother

33:14

me and the tiniest little bit . But

33:16

, for my sanity . That has to

33:19

happen .

33:19

Also my thing is that I came

33:21

out the year after you passed , and

33:23

so Tristan only knew me as a brother and I know him

33:25

as a brother to a brother , and

33:28

I think that's actually a thing that several

33:30

trans women feel like will be a little broy

33:32

with each other , because we kind of miss it

33:35

.

33:35

Well , i understand that . I mean , he

33:38

was so Touchy

33:40

on you and you know , just big

33:42

brother .

33:43

He was my big brother .

33:44

So , yeah , i would imagine

33:46

missing that , but You

33:48

know , that's what I think , that the

33:51

other side Okay , i'm gonna

33:53

come from a parents perspective here You've

33:56

had this child that was either male or female

33:58

, and they come out , even if they're

34:00

supporting , supportive of

34:03

you and your decision , and I hope that they are

34:05

for everyone . But You

34:07

have to remember that that parent And

34:10

those brothers and sisters , their

34:13

lives have changed Tremendously

34:15

. I had two sons and a daughter

34:17

. I lost one of my sons

34:20

in the following year . My second

34:22

son Comes out as transgender

34:25

, so now I have two daughters . You know

34:27

, you don't reconcile that in your brain

34:29

in a day . I mean , that

34:31

is something you have to grow with

34:34

. You have to make changes

34:36

as you go and learn how this new relationship

34:39

is going to work . Um

34:41

, so all I can say

34:43

is that I'm on transgender

34:46

websites and blogs and stuff because I'm trying

34:48

to learn and I read

34:50

a lot And I just

34:53

often wonder From

34:56

the other side of it How

34:58

much time and

35:01

how much conversation went

35:03

into both sides Respecting

35:06

the change and working to make it A

35:10

happy Family

35:12

, you know , or did the doors just

35:14

automatically close ? And

35:16

that's from the transgender side as well

35:18

as the family side . Yeah , i mean , you've

35:21

just dropped a bomb And

35:25

as a parent , you've

35:27

lost your son . Now

35:30

thank god she's still here as low

35:32

, because I know it from both sides

35:34

Yeah , so I

35:38

just think that everybody has to

35:40

take a little time . I think there's too

35:42

much jumping on the . I don't have any support

35:44

and I don't want my child in my house . You

35:47

know it's like come on , people back up , take

35:50

a breath , have a conversation

35:52

, let that one sink in and

35:54

then go do it again . That's what I think .

35:56

I think that's fantastic advice . Just

36:00

you would know .

36:02

I do know , you

36:04

know , i can tell you right now

36:07

the loss of a child is I

36:10

don't feel like I've lost Lauren , i

36:13

feel like that I don't

36:16

have my boy , but I

36:18

haven't lost one . And I don't

36:20

know if you can understand that , because I've had

36:22

a child that's deceased , so I know what

36:24

it is really like to lose a

36:26

child . So that's

36:28

my perspective .

36:30

Yeah , From having lost a brother , I get so

36:32

mad at people that want to disown their relatives

36:34

And it's like you don't

36:36

know when they

36:39

won't be there .

36:41

That's right .

36:42

So fucking fight for a relationship .

36:44

And then , OK , think about this Lauren

36:47

has a grandmother at this 93 . And

36:51

he has

36:53

to come out to her all the time . So

36:55

I think he gets a lot of support because

36:57

she tells him every time , tells

37:00

her every time , I don't care .

37:02

It is the most wonderful

37:05

thing , people . She's dementia

37:07

And first it

37:09

was amazing . For like two years I

37:12

told her once and she never brought it up again . But now

37:14

her dementia is a little worse . So

37:16

like six times at Christmas I

37:18

had to tell her I was living as

37:21

a woman . Now , every single time

37:23

it was I love you . I

37:26

don't care about that , you're gorgeous . You look

37:28

like your mother , like

37:31

it was every

37:33

time , just like a big smile

37:35

. That's true .

37:36

That's very , very true .

37:38

And it was just heartwarming and

37:41

I know I'm going to remember that

37:43

forever .

37:43

I hope you do .

37:45

I don't know , i could ever forget it . No .

37:48

I will never forget it . But

37:50

then you know she's accepting all y'all . She couldn't

37:52

give a shit . She

37:54

just wants her grandkids to be

37:56

happy and that is absolutely

37:58

it . That's what she lives for

38:00

, you know , and for

38:03

me to bring her coffee every morning .

38:04

But other than that we're all good , you know .

38:06

She's so , you

38:08

know .

38:11

Well , I'm feeling good .

38:12

OK .

38:13

Do you have anything else you want to say ?

38:16

No , i just think people make this a bigger deal

38:18

than what it needs to be , and

38:21

I think that we all just need to learn that people

38:24

need to make their own choices and

38:26

the rest of us need to respect those choices

38:28

, and we've got to

38:30

give things time . You

38:32

have to give things time , people . That's

38:36

it .

38:36

Time and respect .

38:38

And I love Lo . even if I do

38:40

call her Lauren , I do love .

38:42

Lo , it is 100% fine . Honestly

38:44

, any of my friends that knew me as Lauren that

38:46

I still talk to I don't have a problem

38:48

with that . Rob talks to me still

38:51

and he calls me Lauren . Did

38:53

I tell you what he said when I came out ? I've

38:55

talked about this in the podcast before . He's

38:57

always known me as his emotionally available

39:00

male friend when we live together and stuff

39:02

. So I've always filled the role for him of

39:04

being the person he bitches to about his life drama

39:07

. And he called me one day and

39:09

he's just going off And after like 20

39:11

minutes he stops to breathe And I go hey

39:13

. I'm trans . I go by Lo

39:15

now She her all this shit And

39:17

he cuts me off and goes dude , we're

39:20

talking about me now . It

39:24

didn't come up again for like months .

39:26

That was the kind of friends to have .

39:28

Yeah , it's like he didn't give a shit . He wanted his friend

39:30

. He wanted his friend .

39:32

That's what people miss is

39:35

that just because somebody

39:37

has made

39:39

these decisions to

39:41

be who they are supposed to be doesn't

39:44

change the fact that they're friend or

39:46

the way they love you or the way they relate to you

39:49

. It just means they've made

39:51

the decision to be who they need to be , and

39:54

that's where people go off the track . Yeah , they

39:57

forget that it's not still

40:00

you . Still you , that's it .

40:02

Probably a happier , better you after

40:05

you've come to adjust things .

40:07

Yeah , i would agree with that . I think

40:09

you're pretty happy .

40:10

I am I'm way happier

40:12

than I was .

40:13

And I think that when you were in all

40:16

the stuff the counseling

40:18

and the hormones and all that

40:20

I was really worried about

40:22

you for a long time . So I think that now

40:24

that everything's pretty much coming

40:26

to this

40:29

is all the transitioning

40:31

parts over and all that stuff I think

40:33

you're much happier than you were . Lauren's

40:35

, my child . So what else would I want for my child

40:38

except for her to be happy ? That's

40:40

what a mother's job is is to raise

40:42

your child into adulthood and

40:45

hope and pray that they're happy . That's

40:47

it . That's my responsibility as a

40:49

parent .

40:51

That is a beautiful place to call it . Ok

40:53

, because it's been a good amount of time and I think

40:55

we're both crying . Say

40:59

goodbye , goodbye , bye . I

41:04

wanted to talk for a second about Ken

41:06

Ellis . I

41:08

knew him as a teacher . I was a student

41:10

. He was wonderful

41:13

. He

41:15

believed in respect . I

41:19

don't want to put words in his mouth , but

41:21

he always carried himself with dignity And

41:23

he expected you to

41:26

act well , to be well , to be your best

41:29

self , and he very

41:31

honestly gave that in return . A

41:36

few hours after the

41:40

incident , i

41:43

got a call from my mother . She was the dean

41:45

at the time . She

41:47

told me to wake up , get

41:51

ready , because I needed to be at the

41:53

school as soon as I could get there , and

41:56

she couldn't tell me why yet or didn't . And

41:59

an hour later , as I'm about to walk out the

42:01

door , i

42:04

get a phone call again . She

42:09

tells me it was Mr

42:11

Ellis . And what happened ? Well , what we knew

42:13

at the time that someone

42:15

knocked on his door and shot him . And

42:20

when I got to the school there at 4

42:22

in the morning , she

42:27

told me to stand in front of the main

42:29

entrance and

42:32

to make sure that every single

42:34

adult that worked at that school

42:36

knew

42:39

what had happened , so they were prepared

42:41

. I think almost

42:46

all the teachers used that front entrance . There

42:51

were about 70 of them , 20

42:54

or 30 staff . I

43:03

can still remember most of them . I remember

43:06

almost

43:10

100 times that morning I had to tell

43:12

someone that I

43:15

had known for years that

43:18

a beloved friend of ours was

43:21

gone . I've

43:28

never hated guns so much And

43:37

if I was asked to do that again I

43:42

would , because

43:47

sometimes you just

43:49

have to do something . Sometimes

43:53

you're just put in a place And

43:59

you have to do something . That is incredibly

44:01

hard but

44:06

also necessary . I

44:17

would like to thank my mother for

44:21

trusting me with this recording

44:23

. There was no swearing

44:25

or drug use in this episode . I

44:28

know , mom , you really wanted it in there

44:30

, but I just didn't think it

44:32

was right . I thought it was a little inappropriate

44:34

scene . As you're my mom , remember

44:38

to like , subscribe , rate

44:40

, review , tell

44:43

a friend , support

44:45

queer media and

44:49

remember everyone . You

44:52

can choose to add

44:54

people to your family . You don't get

44:59

to remove them .