Episode Transcript
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0:00
[MUSIC]
0:14
Well, we're here at VMX sitting in this fantastic recording studio, and I'm joined by Dr.
0:20
Teneja Crocker. And this particular conference has been such a fun experience because I'm realizing that
0:28
there's so many people who I've met multiple times over Zoom.
0:32
You, of course, being one of them, and we've worked together several times, and then
0:36
so to finally get to sit down and talk in person, that's just one of my favorite things
0:40
about coming to the conference and just really being able to sit down with people in face-to-face
0:46
and connect with them. Yeah, it's a little different versus online and the interactions, I think, are we can
0:52
go a little deeper, and it's just really nice to see people and actually give hugs and
0:58
actually spend more time talking to them.
1:01
And one, I'm very jealous of your setup. This is amazing.
1:04
My studio is not quite the same, so I appreciate you having me on and getting to learn a little
1:10
bit more about each other and share with everybody a little bit more about us and VMX and
1:15
just everything that's been going on. Yes, and I have to give credit to the team who designed this studio, but I also have to
1:20
acknowledge, you have that amazing sign that's behind you that I always love, and I'm
1:24
like, "Oh, I would love a sign like that." It looks so perfect in the background of your studio.
1:29
My mom gave me that sign right after graduation from vet school, so long time ago, and I just
1:34
have always loved it, and so we actually built a house, and I had a plan of like, "I'm putting
1:40
this on this wall in my office, and every time I walk in the office, I see it."
1:44
And obviously, she's already super proud and tells everyone, "My daughter's a veterinarian,
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but it is a nice little reminder of how hard I worked and what we've done to get where
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we are." I like it.
1:54
I thank you for shouting it out. Yeah, she'll appreciate that.
1:57
Absolutely. You're right in the perfect place.
1:59
I notice it every time. Nice.
2:01
Well, we're going to do something a little bit different where we're going to kind of ping-pong
2:05
some questions here and sort of interview each other.
2:08
I'll be honest, I'm not used to having a microphone turned on me, so we'll see how this
2:12
goes. I'm going to start off just because that's my safety level is to ask the questions.
2:19
OK, so we're kind of doing this a little bit on the fly, and the conversation was born
2:25
out of a conversation I actually had with somebody else around the holidays where I was
2:30
like, "It's too much. I'm trying to do all of my normal work and then make sure the Christmas presents get here
2:35
and they're wrapped in, we host Christmas."
2:38
So as a house clean, as a food-ticking carav, do we have all the things that we need?
2:42
And I remember texting my best friend, and I was like, "How?
2:46
How do we get this done?" And the more we talked about it, it was like, "But we just do.
2:50
We do somehow power through and get all these things to get thrown on our plate done,
2:56
whether that's the right thing to do or not."
2:58
So I love that I'm sitting down talking to you about this because we have a lot of commonalities,
3:04
and we're both working mothers. We have multiple different areas of our careers and a lot on our plates.
3:13
So I think our conversation here is a little bit too old as that experience, but
3:17
also boundaries and making sure that we are taking care of ourselves.
3:22
So I would love it if you would, you're just going to talk about your experience with being
3:27
a working mom and of course not to take anything away from working dads.
3:31
I can just relate to the experience of being a working mom.
3:34
So your experience there and kind of having your hand in a lot of different areas and
3:38
how you balance all of that. I'm happy we're talking about it because I feel like probably both of us have a lot of,
3:45
these are the things that helped us because we didn't do it right the first time, right?
3:49
So you definitely go into things and you are excited about them.
3:53
I am a yes person, so I like to take a lot on.
3:56
We both own our own practices. We both have podcasts.
3:59
We both have children. And so being career women and also moms is a little bit tricky sometimes.
4:06
And I think especially when you have a lot of different things you're excited about, yes,
4:10
it can pull you in eight different directions.
4:12
So I have had moments where I'm like, okay, I feel like I have this kind of figured out and
4:17
then slapped back into reality that no, I actually have no idea what I'm doing.
4:22
So obviously we are not experts in how to manage all of it, but I do think sharing our experiences
4:29
and the things you've been through hopefully will help someone else.
4:32
And you know, the big thing I hear is from that student and like younger veterinarians
4:36
are like, but how?
4:38
Just like how do you do it because school is overwhelming.
4:41
Life is overwhelming. I can't imagine also adding children to what's going on.
4:45
So my kind of big moments in my career one was I was an equine veterinarian for five years,
4:52
loved it. And then I had my first child and I share my burnout story and moment pretty frequently on
4:58
that, but how to a couple of times where I was trying to do both things like be a great
5:03
mom and be an equine vet and it just the world's collided and physically I just could not
5:09
do everything anymore. And I don't know about you, but I had always been like the personality that I'm like,
5:12
I'll just work harder through it. Yes.
5:15
Like if I just keep moving forward, like I will, something will break, right?
5:19
And it'll be like everything else, not me.
5:21
And I had that moment where like no, I broke instead of everything else.
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And so that was the first time I had to like sit back and be like, I can't just work
5:30
harder and realizing kind of how far I could go and push myself in what was healthy was
5:36
I think the first step in actually starting to put in place like boundaries, asking for
5:41
help and all the other things. Does that make sense?
5:44
It does make sense. And I think part of that is like what comes from being a guest person is when stuff gets
5:51
hard, you're like, well, it's got to be me.
5:53
Like I'm just not working hard enough. I just need to do more and I'm just not determined enough.
5:57
And if I'm just a little more determined, if I'm just work a little bit hard, if I just
6:00
give a little bit more, I'll get there.
6:03
And eventually it all piles up and exactly like you said, we're the ones that break and it's
6:08
not, it's of course not healthy for us, but you know, as we're, as we're relating this to
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being parents, like, that's not the example I want to set for my daughters either to say,
6:16
just work harder until you break. Yeah.
6:19
And I always get the question of like, how do you do so many different things?
6:21
And I try to be really transparent that like I don't do so many different things.
6:24
I have a huge support system and network and group.
6:29
So kind of back to you, what support systems have you put in place for you and the ability
6:34
to kind of do all the different things that you do?
6:37
That's a really good question. I think it starts with clear communication, what your goals are and what's important to
6:44
you and that that goes for, you know, the family system so that, you know, my husband and
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I, we have clear expectations from each other of, you know, where our priorities are and
6:53
what's important and how we're going to make these things happen together and realizing
6:57
it's never 50/50.
6:59
Yes. Oh, that's such a good point.
7:01
Yes. And just go over us coming to that realization of, you know, sometimes you're going to be busier,
7:05
sometimes I'm going to be busier and that's equally important.
7:08
I also think clear communication in the different things that I do, you know, do in the podcast
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and the recordings and things like that, the nature of being a better anarian, sometimes
7:16
emergencies do come up.
7:18
And so being able to say, okay, this is what you need.
7:21
This is what's on my plate. How can we meet in the middle and get everything done?
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I really think it comes down to being clear about what it is that's important to you in that
7:31
moment where I have probably fallen short is just being clear with myself of where my priority
7:38
is lie. You know, in that moment, I think because I'm trying to do things for other people, it's easier
7:43
to communicate that. But when it's me turning back inward and saying, I just need this for myself.
7:50
Maybe that's where I'm not being honest with myself.
7:53
I'm still sometimes in that mode of like, no, I can just do it.
7:56
I can just work a little bit harder. I can just, you know, get up a half an hour early or something like that.
8:00
And I do have a really great support system.
8:03
The other thing is my house call clients.
8:06
You mentioned we both own practices. So mine is a house call practice.
8:09
Clients are really supportive. I've been really lucky to, you know, kind of cultivate this client group where if I do
8:15
have a kid that has to stay home sick from school or, you know, have an emergency come
8:19
up or something, being able to call and rearrange things on the fly and a mutual respect for
8:24
each other's schedule and time and what needs to be done has been really helpful.
8:29
It is really helpful and it's interesting. I had an old vet tell me that you can train clients like we believe we can train pets.
8:35
You can train your clients also. So setting those like very clear expectations priorities like right off the bat, I think helps
8:43
us as veterinarians who also want to be present for those things that you can't plan for.
8:48
Which having children you realize how much you can't actually plan for.
8:52
Yes. And control you don't have.
8:55
Supports system for me. I actually am really lucky.
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My husband works from home. So he does a lot of the childcare and helps out a lot, especially when I travel.
9:04
And then my sister lives around the corner, my mom lives next door.
9:08
So I have a group that I can call on because I do end up staying like sometimes at the hospital.
9:15
There might be a pet that I needed to like stay longer with or something happened and I have
9:19
to wait until they can fix something, you know, so there's only so much you can do to try
9:24
to plan and be strategic about it.
9:27
But you have to also have those other layers in place and knowing when to ask for help is
9:32
key. Absolutely.
9:34
Absolutely. And knowing when you can't do it anymore, you can't put this on your shoulders.
9:37
You need to reach out to somebody else. Yes.
9:40
And you mentioned staying late at the hospital.
9:42
You in addition to owning a practice also work emergency.
9:45
So how does that kind of crazy schedule work out?
9:49
How are you balancing having, you know, a normal hours, you know, business hours type of
9:55
clinic and then also working emergency?
9:57
So I've structured it a little bit that the hospital that I own, I don't actually work
10:01
in every single day is a general practicing vet.
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So I'm the owner and I have veterinarians that work at the hospital.
10:07
And then I work some days, but not every day.
10:09
And then my emergency shifts, I work overnight and I work 13 hours overnight, but those
10:14
are sprinkled in with everything else that I do.
10:18
And I have learned I can't do as many overnight scenarios I used to.
10:23
Like I've gone a little older, which is frustrating.
10:25
Yeah. I've done an overnight every now and again, like, oh, I can't do this.
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I'm more experts. Yeah.
10:31
I used to just like do a ton and now it's like two, maybe three.
10:34
And then I know I need like a really good rest.
10:36
But sometimes the 13 hours turned into 14, 15 hours if there's an extra surgery or something.
10:42
So I really always plan that the next day, there's like nothing major that I need to be present
10:47
for because I know that things happen in the yard.
10:50
And then I do have the group of people that can help get my kids or go to activities.
10:56
And that makes a huge difference.
10:59
Just trying to set it up well for all the things that are going to happen at some point
11:04
in time. The biggest things you have to realize is like you can have a perfect plan.
11:09
And if you work in veterinary medicine, something will go wrong and something will pop up.
11:13
And I do think we have this interesting dynamic that's happening where people are trying
11:17
to set more boundaries. And then you have kind of as older veterinarians that are like, but the pets don't know that
11:23
we have the boundaries and we want to help them. So what is the balance, right?
11:27
Being available and staying and doing the emergency surgery that really has to be done
11:31
to save a pet. And then also being home on time for being able to see your kids for A, B, or C.
11:38
And so I think that's something I still really struggle with.
11:40
I've been of that for quite a while and I still don't have it all figured out.
11:44
And everyone kind of has a different ability to handle those things.
11:48
So have you ever had a moment where you really felt like I had to prioritize being a veterinarian
11:56
over my family? And was it because of a pet patient or have you done a pretty good job of saying, I'm going
12:02
to stop. And I go home, I can say no, even though you know that it could affect a pet's life.
12:08
Does that make sense? It does make sense.
12:10
And I don't think anybody would say that I'm good at setting boundaries and saying no and
12:14
making prioritizing, you know, getting home and stuff like that.
12:16
And I don't say that to be like, no, I'm not not martyring myself here.
12:20
It really is something that I struggle with as well. And it's very comforting to know that you struggle with it too.
12:25
Like euthanasia is a big thing, especially because in a house call that, you know, we get
12:29
really close relationships with these clients and I can think of one example where I knew
12:35
there was a pet needed to be euthanasia. Like there was no doubt about it.
12:38
It was time and I was not going to be available until later in like basically after like 8
12:44
pm because I needed my husband to get home to take care of the kids before I could go.
12:50
So I think by the time all was set and done, this client was okay with it, I don't think
12:54
I made it over there till like 9 30 or 10 o'clock.
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And really was that absolutely impacted the next day, but you know, I was like, this is
13:04
important. I have to be there.
13:06
I feel like I've gotten better at saying I'm not available.
13:09
I can't do it. But it's come from a place of feeling like I'm burning out like I'm going to break if I
13:15
don't say no. And I don't know that if that's like the healthiest place for that no to come from, I think
13:22
you need to kind of explore those boundaries.
13:24
And that's where I talk about like having that honest communication with myself, like what
13:28
is the limit? And knowing ahead of time where to say no because you mentioned planning and you're 100%
13:33
right with kids and veterinary medicine, the perfect plans will go a right every time.
13:38
But I have learned that you can't just lean into like, well, it's all going to explode
13:42
anyway. So there's no plan, right?
13:44
You have to put some sort of plan in place. And I think I'm not good at planning, but I've worked on it quite a bit in, you know,
13:52
the last few years. And I think at least having some plan in place facilitates those boundaries where you can
13:57
say, I know I have this, this and this and makes it a little bit easier when I do have to
14:01
kind of draw that line and say, no, I'm not available. I can't come do it.
14:04
But no, I'm usually the, you know, I will figure it out, I'll try to get it done.
14:09
Let me make the phone calls and do the things.
14:12
I am too. And I think I've had to realize that like the younger generation of veterinarians are
14:17
actually a lot better at setting boundaries and saying no.
14:20
And sometimes it's hard for me to say like, oh, like you aren't willing to stay longer
14:24
to do this or, oh, you, you're, you're saying like, I'm done at my time.
14:29
And I respect it. But I also am trying to kind of find what is that happy medium.
14:35
And I think it's something everyone has like a different thought in their mind.
14:39
And as long as I can go home and say like, I help the pets and also be present for my family,
14:45
then that's my balance. But I appreciate that other people have stronger boundaries than I have.
14:51
And I think that's something you develop like in your career as you go along of like what
14:54
is your comfort level for saying no and how frequently do you say it versus not saying
15:00
it. So, you know, in my practice, it's me, myself and I.
15:03
So I work in and on the practice.
15:06
It's one of my biggest fears when I think about bringing in somebody else to work or something
15:11
like that, which my practice is not, you know, at a point where I would do that.
15:14
But that's a fear of mine of like having different boundaries and different stopping points.
15:19
So as a practice owner, how do you navigate those conversations with somebody who may have
15:24
different boundaries than you do? That's a great question.
15:27
It's not easy because I know that I am a successful veterinarian like financially and just skill
15:34
set wise because of the hours I put into it and how much I've done and seen, right?
15:40
So to have people who are coming into the profession, especially younger, who haven't really developed
15:46
their skills, but then they also like don't want to stay and do an extra surgery, don't
15:50
want to. I really had to mentally understand that like not everyone has the same capacity for the hours
15:56
they work and they're going to be a better veterinarian if they recognize that in set
16:00
boundaries. So it has been a process to talk about it and my big thing is kind of around like how
16:08
we compensate what we do as a practice owner, what do they need to feel valued?
16:14
But then also like what makes me feel like, okay, you're leaving and you're leaving maybe
16:20
a little early even. And I'm okay with that because this is how I compensated you and like I feel comfortable
16:26
with it. And I also know that there's some people that might see less appointments, but they end
16:30
up actually making more because they spend time like talking to people and really explaining
16:36
things. So it doesn't always equate like working harder, doesn't mean working smarter.
16:41
And so that's been a process to understand that too because I came from equine, which like
16:46
60, 80 hour weeks and you just grind, right?
16:49
And that's how you do it. And so it has been like an evolution for me of understanding, I think people are more
16:56
self-aware and they know what they need to be successful.
17:00
And it doesn't always mean that they're going to maybe grow as quickly in their career
17:04
or their skill set, but they're still going to be great.
17:07
And I have to be a little more patient, but also these days like everyone's trying to hire,
17:12
everyone's trying to keep veterinarian. So if you want to be competitive, you have to be understanding and you have to have the
17:18
conversation and set expectations, but you also have to realize it's going to be different
17:25
if you're an older practitioner from when you were a vet.
17:27
I think that's what gives associates and things some longevity is that that communication,
17:32
that understanding, that realizing that boundaries are different.
17:35
And I love that you bring up having that working harder doesn't always mean working smarter,
17:40
because especially as a house call vet, there's a lot of time that we put into those appointments
17:44
and their long appointment times and we're discussing all kinds of different things, really
17:48
taking a holistic, holistic with a W-approach here and not to say that that's not happening
17:53
in the clinic, but it's just a longer, more relaxed conversation in that environment.
17:57
And so sometimes, if I'm time limited, I get frustrated because I'm like, oh, there's
18:04
so much more I could dive into. And you're right, like it does from a business perspective, translate into sometimes a higher
18:09
ACT or more recheck visits that you're doing, which does ultimately benefit the practice.
18:14
And a lot of it, I think, comes down to leaning into some of our creativity that we naturally
18:20
have to have as veterinarians. And now we have to have this from like almost a human resources perspective of, you know,
18:26
how can we accomplish your goals and accomplish practice goals and accomplish my goals?
18:30
I would say that as a non. I don't have an associate or anybody that works for me.
18:34
A tip I actually always give, like young veterinarians or vet students is if you want to have a
18:40
family or if you want to travel two months out of the year or if you want, you know, like
18:45
whatever it is that you need and that you really think will kind of change how you practice
18:49
in the future or you'll have to make adjustments or accommodations for, like I would be up front
18:53
about that in the beginning during a job interview because I really think that like, as a
18:58
practice owner, I want to know what are those things that matter to you and what are those
19:01
things in the future we're going to have to come to terms with and like figure out now.
19:06
And some of them say, well, what if I don't get the job because I want to have kids and I'm
19:09
like, why do you want to work somewhere? Yeah.
19:12
That doesn't want to hire you because you want to have kids one day.
19:15
So I do think that is something that just should be like a conversation starter for people
19:20
who are on the job hunt or are coming out of school just to have the open on his conversations
19:25
of like what you need. And that actually leads into one of the questions I got from a follower.
19:31
So oh, that's exciting. Yes.
19:33
So I thought I would ask you. There was quite a few questions about kind of being pregnant and how do you navigate that
19:38
as a veterinarian? And so Emma Hunt wanted to know what accommodations did you need during pregnancy and how does your
19:45
clinic respond? So I don't know if you were pregnant as an associate or if you worked for somebody, but
19:51
I'd love to hear your experience. Yeah.
19:54
It was honestly, I was very lucky. I had fairly easy pregnancies.
19:57
I was a very crabby pregnant lady. Like I hated being pregnant.
20:00
I can't imagine being pregnant. Oh gosh.
20:02
At all. It was, I was, I had a knot over here like someone.
20:05
Oh, no. I was, oh my gosh.
20:08
Like it was just not my favorite time of my life.
20:10
I love my children dearly.
20:12
As a matter of fact, it was kind of funny when I got pregnant with my second daughter.
20:15
Like I hated being pregnant my first daughter, but then I was like scared right.
20:18
I'm like, oh my gosh. Am I going to like love my baby?
20:20
No, I love my baby. She's wonderful.
20:22
So then when I got pregnant the second time, I'm like, oh, I hate this and I was so open
20:25
about it. But I did not, I was lucky.
20:27
They were fairly easy overall. I didn't really need a whole lot of accommodations.
20:33
It got harder of course to like get down on the floor and do some of those exams.
20:38
So I mean, if anything, the pets maybe had to accommodate me a little bit more because
20:42
having a big dog on a table is not generally their favorite thing in the whole world.
20:47
And then afterwards a mask and surgery like that. You know, I didn't, I didn't do as many surgeries when I was pregnant.
20:53
I talked to my ob about it and he was like, you know, this is what the data says and based
20:57
on what I was doing, he wasn't really worried about my exposure.
21:00
Unfortunately, I have two healthy daughters and they did fine with whatever exposure I did
21:03
have. We're not giving pregnancy advice.
21:05
We are not. We are not.
21:07
We are not. We are not.
21:09
We are not. We are not.
21:11
We are not. We are not talking about heart attack.
21:13
Yes. Just our experience.
21:15
I think the hardest thing was though like, like those emergencies where you're like, I need a state late and do the surgery.
21:17
You know, if there's a day and you're the only one there that can do it and you're the only
21:19
resource. I remember doing an amputation.
21:23
I was pregnant and I was on my feet for a really long time and it took me like a couple days
21:28
to feel normal again.
21:30
That was probably the most memorable experience of it being kind of a mixed bag because I just
21:35
was not quite back up to speed and I didn't necessarily feel like I got a lot of understanding
21:40
where it was like, you've had it because it was like two days later and I was like, I'm
21:44
still like exhausted. I'm sore.
21:46
I shouldn't have done the surgery essentially and they're like, it's been two days.
21:50
Like, what do you mean? But really that's probably like the one that I can pick out and say like that was the time
21:57
that was really difficult. But otherwise I got really lucky that, you know, technicians were very helpful and I didn't
22:03
have a lot of issues where I had to change what I was doing.
22:06
Did you have like a sit down with your boss to say like, I'm pregnant.
22:11
I can't take X-rays. I, did you have a, or was it just kind of like a y'all figured it out as you went along?
22:18
I was like, like initially I did have a sit down and the reaction I got was like,
22:22
like I showed in the picture of like the older town.
22:25
He's like, you, like your, your pregnant and like you could tell it was like, this was not
22:29
like a joyous reaction that was going on.
22:32
But ultimately like, you know, once he had like a couple days to process, then then we just
22:36
figured it out as we went along and I worked with an amazing group of technicians and so
22:41
like they were not going to let me take X-rays. They were like, nope, you go over there.
22:44
Like, we've got this and they would go out of their way to make sure I wasn't in an
22:47
unsafe situation. Matter of fact, I would be the one that would put myself like not with X-rays, but you
22:51
know maybe with a big dog or something, maybe like stop that, go over there.
22:55
Yeah. And honestly, like that was really important to me in those moments because I wouldn't,
23:01
I wasn't necessarily like taking care of myself in that moment.
23:04
So having that team that was really looking out for me was helpful.
23:08
I would love to know your experience because you came from equine where you, I think that's
23:13
not too personal of a question, like were you pregnant and doing equine medicine?
23:16
I was. So I was an equine ambulatory vet in a truck by myself.
23:19
So no technician, like nobody, everywhere I went, the horse owners were my texts basically.
23:25
I also had good pregnancies.
23:27
I remember I was like 38 weeks pregnant and I floated like 12 horses to each in like 100
23:34
degree Texas weather. I ate two large pizzas during the time and I like guzzled water.
23:38
I don't think I want to float 12 horses to each one. It was not pregnant.
23:42
It was a lot. Like it was one of those moments where I'm like, I'm going to do this.
23:45
I'm going to prove that like women can do anything.
23:48
And then I like for two days, I'm like, that was a worse decision.
23:52
I made like, well, I don't do it.
23:55
And so there was a moment where I like kind of got, I used to always take the ultrasound
24:00
out myself. I would carry all the heavy stuff.
24:02
And there was a moment where I'm like, I actually like have to ask for help and I have
24:06
to. And that was hard for me.
24:08
It was hard for me to kind of say, I can't do some of the things I normally do because
24:11
physically I can't. The biggest thing for me was I did emergency software hours.
24:15
My husband would go with me. And so we went and did.
24:19
It was a yearling cult that cut his back leg.
24:21
And so already like really hard to treat because he didn't want anybody to mess with him.
24:25
He wasn't fully broke. And so I sedated him, but he still was trying to kick me every time I like went to touch his
24:30
leg. And my husband, I was super pregnant.
24:33
He's out there and he is not a worse person, but he's watching.
24:38
And we got back in the car and I finally like got everything done.
24:41
And I was just like, okay, we got everything done.
24:43
And he was so mad at me. I was sitting there just like he didn't say anything.
24:47
And I think from the client, he was just, you know, but so mad.
24:50
Like, and he's just going to really quiet and I'm like, what is happening?
24:54
And he's like, that was so dangerous.
24:56
Like you put yourself in our child or us and you could have gotten hurt.
25:00
Like you could have gotten like killed.
25:02
Like, and I just was doing my job, right?
25:05
And I never even considered like how dangerous it really was.
25:08
And so that moment made me kind of sit back and say, wait a second.
25:12
I need to ask for help. I need to use more sedation.
25:14
I need to like do things a little differently than I normally would because of not as fast.
25:19
I like have another entire being I need to be like thinking about.
25:24
And so that was a good like stop for a second and like really think about what you're doing.
25:28
Because again, I'm just in the mode of like go, go, go.
25:32
And not really think about it. So I do think that having a conversation, like sitting with your boss and really talking
25:37
about different things is great. And then I also think really considering and talking to your doctor about like, what
25:44
can I do? What can't I do?
25:46
What is truly safe is is going to be valuable because it's your first pregnancy.
25:50
You just don't even think about all the things that in veterinary medicine could actually
25:53
be super harmful to you.
25:56
And thinking about that experience of, you know, your husband kind of looking out and being
26:01
like, this is not safe. My group of technicians, me like stop trying to handle that big dog.
26:05
I would say, you know, one being aware and taking that feedback, but two, if you're working
26:09
with a teammate who is pregnant, like trying to give them that same consideration because
26:13
I think we're demonstrating here that maybe we're not the best at taking care of ourselves.
26:17
I like stepping back and, yeah, just like take the big dog away from your teammate, you
26:21
know, step them away from the back of the horse and say, why don't you let me do that?
26:24
Yeah. In cases where that makes sense.
26:26
We do like in the ER, there's a couple people recently who have kids and they are pumping.
26:32
And you know, in the ER, you're busy and you're doing a lot of stuff.
26:35
And so I've gotten where, especially when I work with one of them, I will be like, have
26:38
you pumped recently. And she's like, I just got to finish this.
26:41
I'm like, no, like you need to stop.
26:43
It's been too long and like she show, be like, are you sure?
26:46
I'm like, yes, I have the floor, like just go do it.
26:48
And then she comes back and she's like, thank you. Like thank you for telling me like, it's okay.
26:52
Like take care of yourself, do what you need to do.
26:55
And I think we do need to do that for each other in veterinary medicine.
26:57
Like we need to sit and we need to say, where are you at?
27:00
What do you need? How can I help you?
27:02
And also sometimes we need to call each other out and be like, no, no, no.
27:06
Now is the time you're going to put yourself first and that's okay.
27:10
Yes. So we're not great at it, but I think that having the conversation and talking about it
27:14
more hopefully helps people feel empowered to help one another out and communicate a little
27:20
bit more in these circumstances. One of the areas I feel like I've had that conversation regularly is a technician who's
27:27
supposed to be gone and they're still working.
27:30
And I don't realize that they're supposed to be gone.
27:32
So kind of a little bit in my head figured out like what the staggered schedule is.
27:36
And this is in a in a relief position, not in my practice.
27:39
And I've kind of figured out like when I should start to see like the staff, the number of staff
27:43
members do him dwindling. And so I'll like have a moment where I look around and I'm like, there's too many people
27:49
here. And you know, we're busy.
27:51
There's things going on. I could absolutely use the extra hands taking the time to say, Hey, can you do this for
27:55
me? Wait a second.
27:57
Are you supposed to be here? No, I'm supposed to leave half an hour ago.
27:59
Well, then go like, well, we'll figure it out.
28:01
We'll get it done. I don't know that that's 100% foolproof because sometimes it does mean like one
28:06
instead of writing the record, I'm going to go do that blood draw and then I'll end up
28:09
writing the record later. And it does sometimes it does fall back on our shoulders.
28:12
So it's not perfect. But I do think, you know, for the longevity of all of us in a field that can be really
28:19
hard to stay in in the long run, depending on what you're doing, you know, making sure
28:24
that we're looking out for each other and taking care of each other.
28:26
I like that a lot. And I do think you can tell me if you feel the same way.
28:31
But as a practice center, I think that is one of my jobs is to kind of look at the whole
28:34
team and see what do we need and how can I model like what I want people to do.
28:40
I once had someone tell me like, if you want your team to leave on time, like you have to
28:43
leave on time. Oh, man.
28:45
And that's so hard. Hard.
28:47
I stay after all the time. But a lot of times I'm saying like, okay, great job, guys.
28:51
Like I'll lock up. Like I'm pushing them out the door because they feel bad not leaving before me.
28:56
And the same thing at lunchtime, hey, Y'all go get lunch.
28:59
You know, I might need to sit and do all the other things that I have to do, right?
29:03
But I think modeling kind of what we expect is really, really important.
29:08
The other question I got that I wanted to ask you is at ABAH vet wanted to know, do you
29:14
think being a practice center makes it harder or easier to be a mom also?
29:19
And you do have a house call practice, but in general, do you think like having ownership
29:23
of the practice gives you a better ability to kind of be a parent and be flexible?
29:28
Or do you think it makes it harder potentially?
29:31
Yes. I would say when it's all said and done, I think it makes it easier.
29:39
I think having that control and being able to build my own schedule and have that flexibility,
29:43
you know, when I do have something come up where I have a sick kid or fall concert or something
29:49
comes up that it's up to me to call the clients and say, hey, this is what I have going on.
29:54
Can we reschedule? And I don't have extra people that I'm going through to make those decisions ultimately
30:01
makes it easier for me to have the flexibility to be more present for my family and for my
30:06
children. The flip side of that is it all comes back down to me.
30:10
It's up to me to do the communication and this kind of stuff.
30:13
And the administrative stuff that you don't realize goes into owning a business and owning
30:17
a practice, making sure the ordering and the inventory and all this is done.
30:20
So there is a lot more work that I think falls on your shoulders as a practice owner that
30:26
you might not have realized was even there before, you know, and also like when that emergency
30:32
calls, there's nobody else for me to say, you know, don't call me, call them.
30:35
So it's a bigger responsibility than it would be if I could walk out the door at the end
30:40
and say, not my circus, not my monkeys, but ultimately having that control I think makes
30:45
it easier. Yeah, I think absolutely having like flexibility and your schedule to say, I'm going to dictate
30:50
like when I work and how I work is huge.
30:53
And then financially, I think it's really beneficial to be a practice owner.
30:57
And ultimately if you do get associates and you grow a business like you're making more
31:02
money as a business owner. So I think all that is valuable.
31:05
My husband, Donald Sprinter, and he always says, I don't work nine to five, but I work 24
31:09
seven. And I'm like, that's valid, right?
31:11
So like I can turn it off when I leave the practice.
31:14
I can be a mom. I can get the kids in bed.
31:17
But then a lot of times at nine o'clock, I'm going to pull my computer back out.
31:19
I'm going to run reports. I'm going to look at the schedule for the next day.
31:22
I'm going to set up like emails that we need to do like so it never really ends, but you
31:27
definitely have the ability to make the decision of like when are you working and how hard
31:32
are you working? And I can come to places like this and I can talk to you and I can like, you know, meet
31:37
people and I can just take off because I'm the owner and I want to and I can set that
31:42
in my schedule. So I think the flexibility far outweighs any negatives.
31:47
And then if you build your team, you actually have more and more of that, which is really
31:52
valuable as a mom and a veteran.
31:55
Yes. And I will say it has not been an issue for me until recently with feeling like, oh my
32:00
gosh, it's gotten so busy. I mean, I'm getting all these phone calls.
32:03
So now I'm at that point where, you know, I have to make some decisions of how things are
32:09
going to look in the long run. And I think that's important of like having clear goals in the beginning of of what it is
32:15
that you want. So the goal is that you want to have a lot of flexibility.
32:20
Like, don't do what I did. But do do that soul searching in the beginning and kind of kind of get a picture in your mind
32:26
of what you want and go after that goal because I will tell you from personal experience,
32:30
it's a little harder to put it together on the back side.
32:32
Yes. It is.
32:34
I had a veterinary and I worked for that. I respected amazing started a practice.
32:38
And I just love how he structured things. He was all about training the clients and like, really from that first appointment,
32:43
like establishing like how things were going to go.
32:46
And he told me one time he's like, if you want to be a practice owner, you eventually don't
32:50
want the practice to revolve around you. And I was like, that seems weird, right?
32:54
Like most bets like started a practice and they working it and they, but he's like, you
32:58
want to be able to like sell it without you being the main person.
33:02
You want to be able to like pass the torch on.
33:05
And eventually you want to be able to not have to be at the office and like have clients
33:08
still love the experience and love the other veterinarians and like, so my goal has always
33:14
been like thinking five, 10, 20 years, what is the transition going to look like?
33:20
What do I want it to be?
33:22
And I love working and I love my clients, but I go in and I see the people I want to see
33:27
and I do the surgeries. I want to do.
33:29
And so I do think there's a balance you can find as you grow your team, which is really,
33:33
really valuable. And it takes time and it takes energy.
33:37
And it, it, that always stuck with me.
33:39
And it really was a different way of thinking as a practice owner versus like, I'm going to
33:43
be it and everything to everyone because I don't think that is sustainable like long term
33:49
in our profession. Yes.
33:51
Which we, we illustrated in the beginning of our conversation of being that, yes, man,
33:54
I'd love to talk about some of that flexibility and sustainability in the, in the veterinary
34:00
field in general, because you and I have both branched out in different directions
34:04
away from just practicing.
34:06
And so can you talk a little bit about, you know, your podcast and your social media and,
34:11
and all of that side of things that you have going on?
34:13
I think one of the best parts of our job and our degree is you literally can do anything
34:17
with it. Yes.
34:19
So you get this degree and you have this knowledge and especially once you practice a little
34:22
bit and so you can speak to things. I really love the fact that we can then move into like being creative and nowadays like
34:28
social media is where it's at, podcasts, where it's at for educating and connecting.
34:33
So those of us that are comfortable with cameras and microphones, which there are a lot
34:38
of our bases right now. Yeah.
34:40
I'm like, can really like lean into that, I think in knowing that there's other outlets to
34:46
really talk about how great our profession is, really like connect with pet owners, educate
34:51
them and then also meet other people in the profession that are passionate about things
34:54
that are trying to make a difference that are really trying to speak to like some of
34:57
the struggles and some of the wonderful things is just exciting.
35:01
So I think it's taken like my career from like something I enjoyed to kind of that next level
35:06
of feeling like one, I'm making a difference by using my platform to kind of bring more
35:11
understanding hopefully about our profession and also maybe explain a little bit who we are
35:17
as a veterinarian and how much we actually care and like what we're actually trying to do.
35:21
And then two, I really think in our profession, just creating community and connecting with
35:27
people, we talked about how coming to conferences like in person, there's been so many
35:30
great events here where you have a chance like sit and really talk to people and like have
35:34
fun and laugh and meet up with vet school friends that you haven't seen them forever.
35:39
And so creating that community in person and not just online is extremely valuable.
35:45
So I do everything I do because I want to show people how great being a veterinarian is
35:50
that you can find joints, sustainability in this profession.
35:52
You just have to be intentional about it and also just to like meet people and hang out
35:57
with friends. Yeah, and it gives you some really great perspective, I feel like because as you're having these
36:03
conversations, there's so many times that I've been talking to them and like, oh, I never
36:07
really thought about that. But now that you bring it up, I'm going to carry that forward.
36:10
So it's not always just about the medicine.
36:13
A lot of times it is about the networking and becoming just a more well-rounded veterinarian,
36:17
well-rounded person from being able to talk to people.
36:20
And so I would encourage people to think about what they enjoy, think about what they're
36:24
passionate about. And so, if you're really educating, if you like educating, do you want to educate veterinarians
36:28
or pet owners or both? There's a lot of opportunities there.
36:31
Do you love spreadsheets? Because I can tell you there's a lot of veterinarians who don't.
36:35
And so if you love spreadsheets, there's plenty of opportunity to lean into that and help
36:39
veterinarians in that way. So really kind of finding out like what you enjoy and it doesn't always have to look like
36:46
practicing in a clinic or being an equine ambulatory in some of the traditional roles
36:50
that we've thought about in veterinarian medicine. Or you can do both.
36:53
Or you can do both. Both of us are doing both.
36:55
We're better for worse. We practice.
36:57
And we have a couple other hats that we wear.
36:59
But I think trying different things and like putting yourself out there, you will be surprised
37:04
the doors that are opened and you will be surprised.
37:06
Like how much better you feel just knowing you're not alone in this profession, with whatever
37:11
you're dealing with and whatever is going on.
37:13
And I think that's one of the biggest goals that we have with putting ourselves out there
37:17
and sharing our stories is someone's going to say, yep, I've been there or I'm about to
37:22
be there. And that's the whole goal of everything we're trying to do.
37:27
Right. Absolutely.
37:29
Like, having that vulnerability to share those personal stories and say, you know, this
37:32
is what's been important to just to like you said, give help and power people who need
37:39
those experiences to help shape their next decision.
37:42
And I like what you said about how you'll be surprised how many doors open.
37:46
You know, as veterinarians and veterinary professionals, I think we're just a really compassionate
37:51
and open group of people. So a lot of times if there's something that you want to do or something you want to go
37:56
after, like just ask, just go talk to somebody, like send an email and, you know, for the most
38:01
part, you'll get a reply. And if you don't send another email and if you don't, yeah, just keep bothering VMX and
38:06
then they'll know. Yeah, exactly.
38:08
Exactly. We'll eventually reply.
38:10
Yeah. I mean, a lot of times like, I know I've gotten busy and been like, oh, shoot, I'm so glad
38:12
you emailed me again. But yeah, just ask, just reach out and most people will be willing to help you.
38:17
And then like you said, those doors will open up and it's surprising, you know, kind
38:21
of where you will end up where you'll find yourself.
38:23
Like here, like here, like here with all these lights and cameras in our faces.
38:27
Okay. So if you had to do it all over again, is there anything like one thing that you would have
38:32
changed or is there anything that you felt like really made a difference in like where
38:38
you ended up now and how you did it all?
38:41
That is such a good question. I'm actually so glad you asked that because when you first started asking, I was like,
38:46
oh, no, I don't know. But really, I feel like the answer kind of came to me quickly.
38:49
I'm incredibly grateful for all of the experiences that I've had throughout my career, both good
38:55
and bad. I think they've really shaped me as a veterinarian.
38:58
I think it goes a lot back to what I've said a couple times being clear with myself about
39:05
what I want because I think having that yes, man type of personality has allowed me to
39:12
almost like stay busy to where I don't have to like reflect it.
39:17
Yeah, I don't have to look internally and say, but what is it?
39:19
That I want, but what is it that I need?
39:22
So I would say if you have that personality where you are going to say yes to a lot of things,
39:27
then taking the time early, like don't let yourself get so busy that you don't think about
39:33
what's important to you and you're trying to then figure that out on the back side.
39:37
That's harder than if you just take the time and say, okay, what's important to me and
39:42
allow that to kind of shape your path from the beginning.
39:45
Yeah. I love the intention and then that's kind of what me and my husband do is sit and say, okay,
39:51
this is a new project. Like how much time is it going to take?
39:55
What is it going to involve and like what is the ultimate goal with it?
39:58
And I think focusing on that ultimate goal makes a huge difference with everything you do.
40:02
Manifested into the into the universe there.
40:05
What about you? Anything you would have done differently?
40:07
I think the only thing I would have done differently is I would have figured out how
40:13
to ask for help sooner and I would have realized I think being a woman in in E.C.
40:19
Cron especially I felt like I had the mantle of like every woman who was joining E.C.
40:25
Cron practice and I was the first woman in a group of four men.
40:28
So I very much felt like I needed to do everything and I needed to prove that we could do.
40:34
And there's a moment where you realize like I just need to do what I do and I don't need
40:40
to feel such a sense of responsibility for the entire profession.
40:44
And if I just do what I need to do and I put myself out there then I will learn and I will
40:49
grow and I will eventually be able to like share what I've learned.
40:53
But it was very hard for me to feel like I had other people in it with me and that it wasn't
41:00
just me. And so recognizing that it wasn't just me and I needed help and I needed to be able to
41:04
like talk about things and share and self reflect really made a big difference.
41:10
I love that you said that of just kind of remembering that you don't have anything to prove
41:14
to anybody but yourself. Like just you know find out what it is that's important to you and really try to focus
41:19
on that because ultimately do they remember that you went out 38 weeks pregnant and almost
41:24
got kicked by a cold? No, but you do.
41:26
I do. Yeah so yeah make sure.
41:28
I haven't definitely did it. Yes absolutely.
41:30
So make sure you know you're keeping yourself in mind and not trying to prove things to
41:34
other people which is a hard thing to learn and it's a hard thing to maintain even once
41:38
you know that it is. And we're never going to get it perfect right.
41:42
So we're practicing about your medicine because life is practice.
41:45
You're always getting better. You're always growing and so realizing that not feeling such a burden to get it right
41:51
every time has made a big difference for me.
41:54
Well, Tunisia this has been fantastic.
41:56
Thank you so much for coming and sitting down with me in this beautiful studio.
42:00
Yes. All the lights and cameras that we've acknowledged a few times.
42:03
Thank you. This has been really fun.
42:05
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
42:07
I appreciate it. [Music]
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