0:00

Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeart

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Radio.

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Sad Depressed Getting Killed

0:09

The Virum.

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So Suprimo roll

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Call three Sun Sun

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Subrivo role called Supremo

0:21

So So Suprivo ro called.

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Subrivo as you can

0:28

tell.

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Yeah, we got ll yeah

0:31

and for the first time in history. Yeah, my

0:33

roll call fell.

0:37

Subrivo called.

0:43

My name is Fante and my

0:45

rhymes is vicious. But I'll

0:47

also say yeah, pudding

0:50

is delicious.

0:54

Supprivo Suprivo

0:56

sun So Brivo.

0:59

My name Sugar. Yeah, I

1:01

need a beat, yeah, like Quincy

1:04

Jones needs like his feet.

1:15

Up here? Bill, Yeah, back

1:17

for more, Yeah, Sugar, Steve,

1:20

Yeah, happy.

1:22

Port like

1:32

yeah more like Chris Robinson Yeah

1:35

l L yeah, smoking.

1:47

L L Yeah, I say bless

1:50

up. Yeah, I'm with the tribe.

1:53

This one's quest Love.

1:59

So So So.

2:03

Supo Son Son sun

2:09

Sel.

2:12

Damn like you speaking like what

2:15

rhymes with Robinson?

2:16

Smoking Son?

2:18

Oh smoking

2:24

level.

2:24

We were both like wait none rhymes and Robin We

2:27

started with smoking Son and

2:30

Robinson. All right, okay, so look all right,

2:33

all right. First of all, yes, we're we're

2:35

live and lost Ange. We're

2:37

taming Los Angeles with No No

2:41

A C. But it's all good.

2:42

Uh.

2:43

This is the Quest of Supreme podcast

2:45

of course with Fon Tickeelo, North

2:48

Carolina's Finest Little Brother. How's

2:50

preparations going for for with

2:53

Charlotte Dave Riley. What's the Durham

2:56

Durham.

2:56

Made and Durham?

2:57

No, it's going well, man, It's just you know, we at the last

2:59

kind of the stretch before we go, so you

3:02

know, you know how I go.

3:03

I mean a million to

3:06

use the cross, you know. I and you're organizing it too.

3:08

Yeah, not by myself. Okay, we

3:11

have a team, but but me and Pool were overseeing

3:13

it from tip to tip.

3:14

Headaches out the ass. But it's going

3:16

well though, Sugar. Steve House,

3:18

how's life in jazz business?

3:20

Everything's good. It's nice to be here. They

3:23

don't let me have them Manhattan much, so it's good

3:25

to get away.

3:27

Okay, Steven Weed free right now?

3:29

Bro?

3:30

Yeah, there's that. There's that too, So I may talk

3:33

more during this.

3:35

Yeah.

3:35

I was about to say, you seem very clear today for some

3:38

reason.

3:38

Took a shower.

3:39

Yeah, okay, that's that's good. You've

3:41

been released from Sesame Street prison. Yeah,

3:44

where have you been at the Muppets? Been holding you hostage.

3:47

Hostage.

3:48

Yeah, I got negotiated out from Sesme Street

3:50

and I'm here. I'm excited. Really

3:52

nothing not.

3:53

Everything's fine.

3:54

No, no, I've been driving

3:56

my kids the volleyball.

3:57

I was about to say, did the strike even affect Sesame

3:59

Street?

3:59

Not, that's that's what None of the muppets are

4:02

unionized, No, they all it's

4:04

they're free from that, which is good. Okay, that's

4:06

that's good to hear. Well, as is this speaking

4:08

of course, you know, we resolve to strike

4:10

and you know who like wants me back at thirty

4:12

Rock immediately like, yeah,

4:15

exactly, let's go.

4:17

How's it going?

4:18

I am going good? Now are we getting this week started?

4:20

I was about to say, how long did it take?

4:21

You?

4:22

Ritty and l story?

4:24

First of all, shout outs to call you got a shout

4:26

out to the people that make it happen that it took months,

4:28

but it was so worth it, of course. But

4:31

yes, it's the perfect way to start our

4:33

adventure. With a legend.

4:35

I've been having a what's what's the term, a t D T tet

4:38

A tet uh with with a

4:40

very passionate I would

4:42

say over zealous person in in in

4:45

the I g d ms about

4:47

how we always disrespect Yeah,

4:50

okay, so.

4:52

I it's not talking about her feet or anything like

4:54

that, right, it's

4:57

an l a callback it is

5:00

anyway, all right. So look, I'm gonna do this

5:02

Stephen A. Smith's out because I'm

5:05

world famous for the intros or lack

5:07

of intros or the over enthusiastic intros.

5:09

But I think that it's

5:12

important that our listeners understand

5:16

why we should address our

5:19

guest today in terms of royalty

5:21

without making him cringe or whatever.

5:24

So basically, I will say, in

5:27

the past seven years of doing this podcast,

5:30

you know, we've had presidents and musical

5:33

pioneers and actors and sports figures

5:35

and whatnot. For

5:37

out of nine Jackson's we've had on the show, Wow,

5:41

But this is probably the episode

5:44

I've been waiting for. I mean, from a guy that has

5:47

co authored a song about hip hop being the love

5:49

of his life, I will say that

5:51

who better than.

5:53

To have what I deem?

5:56

Probably I call him a junior pioneer

5:58

only because he's the

6:00

reason why my definition of

6:03

the pioneer never gets the glory. But it's the person

6:05

that comes behind it that improves on the pioneer.

6:08

Literally, our guest today is the reason why I think

6:10

that because and I

6:13

had to write this part down basically, you

6:15

know at nausea that

6:18

yeah, okay, Curtis Blow was the first

6:20

goal selling rapper on a major label, but

6:23

our guest today has improved

6:25

on that twelvefold. And

6:27

also he literally built

6:30

the deaf Jam empire. Without his success,

6:33

I don't know if there would have been budget or whatever

6:35

for the Beast's

6:37

down to public and me down, you

6:40

know, literally built an empire. Not

6:42

to mention literally so many firsts

6:45

that our guest has achieved.

6:48

If you want to say, the three minute

6:51

rap song, the idea of course, the

6:53

skit emotions on Wax.

6:56

Whatever, true, I have my only

6:58

pair of troops. Yeah, I was gonna say.

7:00

Smith him the idea of pivoting to something

7:02

else besides wrapping the

7:04

comeback the remix. Like

7:07

literally I made a list and it was like over twenty but

7:09

I would bore you all, and I know he's like, yo, I can't

7:11

wait to get the funk out of here. Lad, please

7:15

welcome James Stop Smith a

7:17

l.

7:17

Cool day to Let's love Supreme, Thank

7:20

you, thank you.

7:21

You're also going to realize that the

7:24

reason why we really haven't had our first

7:26

true conversation yet. Was I

7:28

was waiting for this play because I didn't want to like, oh

7:30

my god, I didn't want to freak you

7:33

out by like nerding out on you because

7:35

I will go cuckoo for Coca puffs.

7:37

But no, just save it, save

7:40

it, save it for the podcast notes.

7:42

Every time he thought that, well, why y'all

7:44

want to every time he thought, I hope he took a note like yet.

7:46

No, literally, he would come and out hide like I don't

7:48

want to because I don't want him think like I'm ignoring him whatever, not

7:51

return his phone calls. But I'm also the kind

7:53

of guy that wants to know like twelve things about his career

7:56

in a casual moment.

7:57

And you know, I've always scared off many

7:59

an R.

8:00

That's hilarious that way. So on the road,

8:03

yes we did, yeah, oh man. And

8:06

not to mention, I'm I'm back

8:08

from camp cool Jay talk about yeah

8:10

we got to hear about it.

8:11

I heard about it, but talk about it. How them

8:13

put people tour. The tour was just it

8:16

was rigorous. I mean, you know, quest worked

8:18

so hard, man, I mean rehearsing forty

8:20

hours a day, you know, twenty four

8:22

hundred hours a day just bringing

8:25

artists in and bringing guests in and

8:27

fitting them into the set, and like on

8:29

stage, I would call him my general every night because

8:31

he was, you know, just working so hard

8:34

and so tirelessly to make it look

8:37

effortless, you know what I'm saying, for the audience,

8:39

and to make it a show where everybody could

8:41

just come in and once they get in, they

8:44

once they stood up, they basically never sat down

8:46

for two three hours and didn't mit three four hours

8:48

and didn't miss a beat.

8:49

It was It was a lot of fun. It was dope.

8:51

We put up.

8:53

It worked, It

8:55

worked, It works for real.

8:56

We still got a couple more, but it really was

8:58

serious, Like, so you did a great job

9:00

on that, man, Like it was amazing.

9:02

It was amazing, all right.

9:04

So let me get to the nerd part.

9:07

Okay, So without the usual rigmund

9:09

like where were you born?

9:10

On stuff?

9:10

I actually I want to know what

9:14

was your life like in nineteen eighty

9:16

three, one year

9:18

before you started

9:20

your journey to your path, Like what

9:23

was typically happening to you

9:25

in eighty three.

9:26

By that point?

9:27

Yeah, So in eighty three, I was just running around

9:29

the city networking

9:32

with you know, other MC's and DJs

9:34

and producers, and spending

9:37

a lot of time in Harlem. I would go up to like see

9:39

my man Silver Fox. He lived

9:42

across He had a record store across from Grant Projects.

9:44

This guy named Julio Gina had a record

9:47

store on a label CCL Records, And

9:50

I was I spent a lot of time

9:52

in Harlem at the record store, just kind of honing

9:54

my craft, talking to Fox about cadences

9:57

and couplets and stuff

9:59

like that. Like, you know, me and

10:01

Kouji Rapp would be like down

10:03

at this place called Joe Grant one hundred

10:05

and tienth Street and Harlem rhyming together and you

10:08

know what I'm saying, Me and him and Fox and you

10:11

know that.

10:11

So I basically spent a lot of time.

10:13

And then i'd be if I was in Queens, I might be in like Herbie

10:15

Lovebugs basement, you know what I'm saying, Like when

10:18

he was like just making beats he had

10:20

and he didn't have any records out or anything, but he was down

10:22

there, like so we'd be down there and just hanging

10:24

out.

10:25

And you were born in Queens, No, I was born in Long

10:27

Island.

10:27

I was born in base Show base Shore, Long Island,

10:30

and then you know, I would go back and forth between base

10:32

Show, Long Island and Queens and

10:34

then you know, spent obviously

10:36

most of my time in Queen's ultimately, but for

10:39

many years I went back and forth, you know what I'm

10:41

saying to school, So because we.

10:43

Always hear the folklore of hip hop and.

10:44

All the Bronx stories, the Bronx Monks, marks Monks, Bronks

10:47

and all these tapes, tapes, tapes, how

10:50

is the rest of the Burroughs getting

10:55

spread of this creative pandemic?

10:57

Like yeah, yeah, so create That's a good way of looking

10:59

at it, right, So what

11:02

happened actually is me being in Long

11:04

Island, I was in North Babylon. I would go back and forth

11:06

between North Babylon and Queens. When I was

11:08

in North babylin next door to me was a bunch of foster

11:10

kids, so a woman, a couple of

11:12

them of colors, you know what I'm saying.

11:14

They had like five or six forster kids

11:18

like in the house.

11:19

And they were from Brooklyn, the Bronx uptown

11:22

like everywhere, and a lot of them like my man Kenny

11:24

from Brooklyn, and Wayne was from the Bronx and

11:26

Reynard and them were you know, so I

11:28

would hear all the tapes my manor Eric Ward and all

11:31

them.

11:31

They would play all of the tapes from the

11:33

Bronx.

11:33

So I was exposed to hip

11:36

hop from day one, like I was exposed

11:38

to like Flashing, the Furious Four

11:40

and the Foursome Seas way early, like

11:42

before the records, before Raptors, the Light, before

11:45

all that.

11:45

I was already hearing everything that was

11:47

going on in the.

11:48

City the first before yeah, there was

11:50

the Furious Four before they were the Furious Five. Yes,

11:53

yeah, So I was you know, I was hearing all

11:55

these records and hearing the Cold Crush.

11:57

So I got into it real early.

11:59

So at like nine years old, I

12:01

was already like rhyming and trying to rhyme

12:04

like those guys and trying to make up

12:06

rhymes and stuff like that. So by

12:08

the time I was eleven or twelve, I actually

12:11

started writing, you know, at eleven or

12:13

twelve, I started really getting into it. So

12:16

that's why I was actually ready when

12:18

I was sixteen to start death jam because I

12:20

had already been doing it like like,

12:22

you know, maybe eight years at that point. You

12:25

know, at sixteen, I had already been in hip

12:27

hop like eight years, like trying to you

12:29

know, get good at it.

12:30

Who was your north

12:32

star in terms of like that's

12:35

the MCI.

12:35

Like it was a mix of all of them. It

12:38

was a mix of all of them for different reasons. It

12:40

was more like mixed martial arts than it was like one style.

12:43

It wasn't just karate. It was mixed

12:45

martial arts, you know what I'm saying. So it was

12:47

you know, and funny, you know, I

12:49

actually picked that up from Bruce Lee, you know what I'm

12:51

saying, because G Condo was like

12:54

the first MMA, right, Like it was the

12:56

way of the intercepting fists and it was

12:58

all about taking all of these very styles

13:00

and putting them together. So that's

13:02

why, like you know, early on I was

13:04

able to do stories, love

13:06

records, hard records, this and that.

13:08

That's why, like I can do any kind of song now.

13:11

So it's like, you know, it's like a guy on

13:13

a basketball court who could play defense, who could

13:15

shoot, who could go left, who can go right?

13:17

Who could do threes? Who could dunk?

13:19

Who could you know, like pride in myself

13:21

and doing anything, you know, avant

13:23

garde records like anything.

13:25

So and that came from just

13:28

listening to all of them, right, listening to hearing

13:30

Spoony and hearing Mail and you

13:32

know, hearing Mo.

13:33

But then like in.

13:33

DLB for different reasons, like in Tito for

13:36

a different reason, like and pays for a different

13:38

reason, like in JDL because of what he does,

13:40

like in Ad for certain reasons like like

13:43

a cast for other you know, like it was all these different

13:45

people Shah Rock for the Echo Chamber and you

13:47

know hearing like so it was all of these different people

13:50

that you know, just kind of I

13:52

just absorbed all of it, you know what I'm saying.

13:54

Well, I gotta ask you now, did

13:57

you ever in your wildest

13:59

dreams ever imagine

14:03

that, like one of the one of

14:05

the pegs of the ladder of your whole story, that

14:07

you actually.

14:08

Go toe to toe with one of those pioneers like

14:10

in the beginning.

14:11

Definitely not definitely not man,

14:13

Listen, you talked about Modi, right, Like,

14:16

oh definitely not, of course, not like

14:18

I love Mo.

14:19

You know, I still love Mo.

14:22

But you know it's like basketball

14:24

right or boxing.

14:25

I mean, you know, de la Joya had to fight Chavez

14:28

like regardless, so you

14:30

know that was just it just came with

14:32

the territory. But I didn't lose any respect for him.

14:34

I never lost respect for him. I never felt like

14:37

personally insulted. Always took

14:39

it as part of the game.

14:41

Yeah, I see that.

14:42

So, I mean I've heard Ruben's

14:45

side, I've talked to ad of rock like them

14:47

might be in NYU whatever. So

14:50

first of all, how did you even have

14:53

And we heard the story about like your grandfather

14:55

getting you.

14:56

What equipment did he get you?

14:57

Exactly? You got me too. I wanted techniques,

15:00

but you know my grandfather, you

15:02

know I wanted technique.

15:03

You know you're getting to Sheba's, right,

15:08

Yeah, I got I got to to Sheba's

15:10

and I wanted I wanted the Gemini

15:13

he got me a uh.

15:15

It wasn't a new Mark, I forget the name of it, but

15:17

it was a different one.

15:18

It had a crossfader and a a and a turn

15:21

on it, and it didn't have a

15:23

slide fada, had a turn knob on it. But yeah,

15:26

so I had the mixer so you can dj oh

15:28

yeah, okay, oh yeah, oh yeah.

15:30

Yeah.

15:30

I started off that way because see

15:33

my grandfather, he was a jazz musician and

15:36

He used to take me in the basement when I was laby six

15:38

five sixty seven and record me like

15:41

doing little jazz things, and he would

15:43

like mess with stuff, and he had like a reel

15:45

of reel and I'd be down there doing little.

15:48

Jazz stuff and all that, you know what I'm saying.

15:49

So I came up listening to like

15:52

Jimmy Smith at the Penthouse and you

15:54

know, all of these.

15:55

But then I'd be listening to Smothers brothers, like

15:57

Comedy records.

15:58

But then I'm listening to like So I I got

16:00

exposed to a lot of different kinds of music,

16:03

whether it was Miles or Charles, Charlie Parker

16:05

or bird or Birdland stuff and Ella

16:07

Fitzgerald and Duke Ellington all this stuff count

16:10

Basi records, so I got and it was a lot

16:12

of big band too, So it wasn't just the normal jazz.

16:14

It was a lot of big band jazz. But I say

16:16

that to say that's where I kind of got

16:19

into it, you know what I'm saying. And then I

16:21

ended up getting the equipment because I fell in love

16:23

with it. Because I got hit on a mini bike and

16:26

my grandfather wanted to keep

16:28

me in the house, and it was a choice either money.

16:30

No, No, it was settled.

16:32

They were just trying to keep me in the house because you

16:35

know, we used to have a mini bikes and all that with the

16:37

you know, with the with the.

16:38

Shoelace tied to the throttle with no

16:40

brakes on it, just running

16:45

around the block. And I got hit on one of them.

16:47

Joints, and then you know, they was

16:49

like my grandmother was going crazy and the neighborhood's

16:51

talking. That was like headline news.

16:54

And then so he got me some equipment

16:56

to keep me in the house.

16:57

Because its household.

17:01

No, no, did they know what hip

17:03

I was to be?

17:04

Like?

17:04

No, well, well, the only resistance

17:07

came later when I started becoming professional,

17:10

because my grandmother didn't really

17:12

believe that it was real and she wanted

17:14

me to stay in school, and my mother secretly

17:17

had made a pat with her that she would let me stay out

17:19

of school for two years because remember I dropped

17:22

out in the ninth grade the store.

17:24

When Radio came out, I was sixteen seventeen.

17:27

When when it dropped the single, when the when

17:29

I Need a B came I was sixteen Radio I

17:31

was turning seventeen.

17:32

I was around seventeen, because.

17:33

You had a deal that you would

17:35

secret No, my mother had a secret

17:38

deal that she would let me stay out of school

17:40

and pursue my dreams for two years, and if

17:42

it didn't work out, she would make me go back to school. Because

17:45

I asked her, I'm like, why did you let me do that? And

17:47

she said, because you were really, really

17:50

passionate about it. And I knew you were young enough to

17:52

be able to go back to school, So

17:54

that that was a she took that shot.

17:56

I'm glad she did. That's I'm

17:58

glad she did.

18:00

Curious about your grandfather, what instrument did he play?

18:03

Tenor saxophone? Played the tennis

18:06

sacks?

18:06

And so I used to, you know, grow

18:10

up and just change learning how to change the reads

18:12

and how to clean it, and you know, mess

18:14

around with it stuff like that. Well you

18:16

would play sax I would mess around with it, but

18:18

nothing of any consequence. I mean I used to mess

18:20

around with it, but nothing. You can at least play like

18:22

love roller coaster. You know, you

18:25

know, you know, nothing, nothing of any

18:27

real consequence. But I but I did grow

18:29

up around a lot of instruments. He would buy me guitars.

18:31

I would break them and pop the strings and stuff like that.

18:34

And it was just he had a love for

18:36

music, and my grandmother loved music, and my mother wrote

18:39

poetry, you know what I'm saying, so you

18:42

know, and play the the

18:44

accordion and you know, you

18:46

know what I'm saying.

18:47

So we don't understand, like

18:50

this makes sense exactly?

18:59

How did you even have wherewithal

19:01

to know that? Let

19:04

me hand deliver these tapes?

19:06

First of all, what's on the tapes? Are you just like freestyling

19:09

and piece to president or like no?

19:10

Now?

19:11

So I was about to quit because

19:13

I couldn't get any make any headway because labels.

19:17

A lot of labels were turning me down. Well

19:19

it wasn't that many, but it was the first label you went to. I

19:21

sent something to sugar Hill. I tried to get on sugar

19:24

Hill. And when I started

19:26

trying to get on sugar Hill, I was probably like fourteen,

19:28

maybe thirteen.

19:29

Do they know this now?

19:31

They do now, you

19:33

know?

19:37

And so when I was like thirteen fourteen,

19:39

I started sending demos to sugar Hill trying

19:41

to get on them.

19:42

They responded, though they were polite.

19:44

They said, you know, we just want to inform

19:47

you that we're not interested in your material at

19:49

this you know, it was a standard letter, so

19:51

it was cool. And then after that, I

19:53

was about to quit because I had been trying since

19:55

I was like fourteen years old and it had been

19:58

two years and now I'm sixteen and I'm about

20:00

to quit because I'm like, you know, it's just I'm not making

20:02

any headway. And I had made a decision

20:04

to go pro and be a professional recording

20:07

artist. And so my mother, you

20:09

know, she found one of the letters. I had balled

20:11

it up and threw it in my room and she walked in and found

20:14

it somehow and was reading it. And

20:16

then she came over and she was like giving me hug

20:18

because I was depressed. She's like, what's wrong,

20:20

bah blah blah blah blah. I'm like, nah, you

20:22

know, you know I can't you know, I don't

20:24

have no equipment. I can't make a good demo this

20:27

and that. So she said, well, what do you need? And I told

20:29

her I need a drum machine so I can this

20:31

and that I need to beat. Yeah, I need to

20:33

be exactly. And that was the demo. So I went

20:35

out and I did a demo. She

20:38

bought me a call drum machine. And

20:40

I went to my man spin Master Fanessa's

20:43

house in his basement, and we played

20:45

it manually because we didn't wait to want to wait

20:47

to learn how to program it. So we just played

20:49

everything manually and did a pause tape over

20:51

dub and I made I need a beat the

20:54

demo.

20:55

What Yeah, yeah, I made I need to beat the demo.

21:00

But you didn't even

21:02

know a sequence it nah.

21:04

Nah.

21:04

I just did it by hand.

21:05

And then once I did it by hand, by feel, then

21:08

I went back and rhymed to what I did by

21:10

hand, and then I went back and my man

21:12

did some scratching on it, and I went back. I

21:14

just did it that way, you know what I'm

21:16

saying. And then I sent that in and uh,

21:19

the rest is history. So ad

21:22

Rock heard it. Ad Rock heard it. Then

21:24

he took it. Obviously they had the

21:26

real drum machines, you know, that took it to

21:28

another level.

21:29

Took it. Was a similar beat, but he took it to a whole other

21:31

level.

21:32

Him and Rick and you know, well, number one, do

21:34

you still have those rejection letters?

21:37

I probably do in my house, in my grandmother's house

21:39

somewhere.

21:39

Yes, I would say, yes, yes,

21:42

I would say, I would say, yes, okay,

21:44

yeah.

21:45

I got them.

21:45

What about that demo? Did that ever come out?

21:47

It's around, It's around because that's you know, it's funny.

21:50

That's where where they got dropped,

21:53

like you know and all that. Yeah yeah, because I did all

21:55

that on my demo.

21:57

Yeah yeah, yeah.

21:58

So when the Beastie Boys did that, all that those

22:00

little some of those little lines they did a

22:02

lot of that was you know, based

22:05

on the demo.

22:05

You know, I'm saying, wait while and while.

22:07

I'm remembering this, Okay, so during

22:09

the Grammy fifties celebration, I

22:13

overheard this is what really made me run

22:15

out the room because I didn't want to hear the story. Can

22:18

you please tell them the story? And I'm skipping a little bit

22:20

ahead. Tell me the story of how you

22:22

named Chun King Studios.

22:24

Oh so Chun King So wait,

22:27

just that alone, like heed, yeah,

22:29

So.

22:30

Chun King obviously was owned by John King, right,

22:33

so, but it was in Chinatown and

22:36

I can never remember his name, and I'm like, so we

22:38

just started calling it Chun King because it's a

22:40

Chinatown and we used to get all the good

22:42

Chinese food around there. We loved it, so I

22:44

started calling the Chun King studios. I'm like, Yo,

22:46

we're going to Chunk King. We're going to Chunk King.

22:48

And one thing led to another, and John just

22:51

named the studio Chunk King, and they just,

22:54

yeah, it became it became Chunk King because

22:58

we just, you know, we used to get Chinese food around

23:00

there all the time.

23:00

You know, it

23:03

could have been that, you know what I'm saying.

23:05

It could have been that, like when you get

23:07

a call back from them, is

23:10

this an instant Okay,

23:12

let's make it happen, or like, are you going through the

23:14

regular process of what the artist goes through. I

23:17

used to first of all, after I sent him the demo, I would

23:19

call Rick every single day for like two weeks

23:21

to ask him if he got the demo yet, And

23:25

sometimes he would answer, sometimes he wont he

23:27

wouldn't, but I'll.

23:28

Be like, Yo, Rick, you get the demo yet? Nope, didn't get

23:30

it yet. Okay, you're Rick, you get the demo. I used to call

23:32

him every day following up, like for

23:34

like for like two weeks. Then when

23:37

when he finally called me, called

23:39

my grandmother. I came in the house. My grandmother told me some Rick

23:41

calls I'm like going crazy. So you know, I called

23:43

him from my kitchen. He called me, yo, he said, Yo,

23:46

come down. I said this, He said, what's up? I

23:48

said, Yo, what's up? Man? He said, Yo, come down. We're gonna

23:50

make it, make a demo, make a record, blah blah blah.

23:52

So I'm going crazy. And then I went

23:54

down there and I made the first

23:57

the demo. This first demo was called

24:00

catch this Break and if you're

24:02

looking for Jenna and make you ate by this record and catch

24:04

this break, right, And

24:06

so I took that, We took that, and he took

24:08

that to Russell. So Russell was like, ah, it's the

24:10

same old thing. It's the same old thing. By bye bye

24:12

bye. So me and Rick went back in the studio

24:15

and that's when he revisited the demo and

24:17

we made I Need a Beat, and then

24:19

we made I Need a Beat and that

24:22

song just kind of they decided

24:24

because what was happening was Deaf

24:26

Jam Productions was having problems collecting

24:28

their money from Party Time street Wise, the label

24:31

that they were being distributed by, right that

24:35

I don't know, but that was what Tela Rockets

24:37

Yours was was Deaf Jam Productions.

24:39

It was on Street Time Party it was on Party Time

24:42

street Wise.

24:43

That was the label, and so.

24:47

And so they were having the problems collecting

24:50

the do so they ended up making

24:52

death Jam independent or turning

24:54

Death Jam into a label because it was a production company.

24:57

Then it became a record label with no distribution,

25:00

and we made our need a beat, and then we made

25:02

another song. I made my first couple of songs

25:04

with no contract, okay,

25:07

because I you know, I didn't want.

25:08

Like like nothing was stopping me. Like, we'll get

25:11

to that.

25:13

It's it's it's called pressing up the records and

25:16

putting them out.

25:16

We did.

25:17

We sold.

25:17

Okay.

25:23

If I'm a budding yard artist and I want

25:25

to put out my own joint, how much

25:27

is that gonna run me?

25:29

It is damnly impossible.

25:31

It was.

25:31

It was just like it was almost impossible because

25:34

if they were, there are too many other hoops to climb

25:36

through. At that time, there was no First

25:39

of all, you got to remember there was no access to information.

25:42

You don't even have the access to the information

25:44

to know how to go about figuring

25:46

out how to make a record.

25:48

Like then you talk about they.

25:50

Know or are you there a guinea pig?

25:52

Well, they knew to a certain extent because

25:54

remember Russell had been dealing with Curtis,

25:57

he managed.

25:58

He hadn't had any you

26:00

know stuff, but he had managed his groups running

26:02

them had.

26:03

I think maybe one album at that point, right,

26:05

you know, or well, yeah they

26:08

have one album. They knew, but they I

26:10

was a guinea pig in the sense of being

26:12

the first artist on the label for sure, Like

26:14

they didn't never had ran a label like that

26:17

before.

26:17

We didn't. You know, nobody knew what

26:19

we would.

26:20

But I'm just saying in terms of like knowing

26:23

that, so there's four stores in Philly

26:25

that I need to put this in armnds.

26:26

Oh yeah, yeah, No.

26:27

They did a good job with that. We did a good job.

26:29

I mean, I need to Beat came out, and you know,

26:31

we ended up selling, you know, fifty one hundred

26:33

thousand records independently, and then

26:35

we put Dangerous out and

26:38

sold a little less, but did okay.

26:41

Creatively, when when you're making these

26:43

songs, do you explain the

26:45

process of how you and Rick are creating

26:47

me songs?

26:47

Like is he just like making

26:49

a beat and you're like, I like that part and not that part.

26:52

It's exactly what it is. Was, you

26:54

know, pretty much through all of my music.

26:57

But with Rick, what we would do is I would give him

26:59

the basics of what I wanted to do, like

27:01

the foundation, rather of what I wanted to

27:03

do. I'd say, oh, I want to beat like this. I would hum

27:05

a beat or a mouth a beat, you know, or

27:09

something like that. Right, he would go. He

27:11

would he would take that as the foundation. Then

27:14

I would rhyme to it. I would you know, if I

27:16

had most of the time I had rhymes already written,

27:18

sometimes I would write to it.

27:20

You know what I'm saying. I'd write to it.

27:22

I do that.

27:23

Then Rick would go in the studio by hisself

27:25

and play with a lot of different overdub ideas.

27:27

He would go in and put surprises on it. He'd

27:29

find guitar bits, you find horns.

27:32

He plays stuff for me. I'd be like, I don't know about

27:34

that part. I like that part, and he'd be like, okay, well

27:36

what do you think about this part? I say, I like that, and he

27:38

would go back. Nearly a collaboration.

27:40

It was very much If you talk about that when you gave

27:42

your speech, Yeah, when you got your I think

27:44

it was a lifetime achievement.

27:45

Award. It was Rock and Roll Hall of Fame,

27:48

right, And you talked about like collaboration.

27:50

Definitely, work with your producers, definitely,

27:53

all of them, always, always, because you

27:55

know, we change each

27:58

other when we work together, right, So

28:00

it's not just add water, it's but I

28:03

like to leave room for the producer to

28:05

do what they do, don't.

28:06

I'm not a believer in bullying producers.

28:09

A lot of people, as they get established, they

28:12

put more and more pressure on the producers, and they bully

28:14

the producers into a corner where they can't be free to create.

28:16

And I learned early on working with Rick to

28:19

just let the producer do what they do.

28:21

And give them opportunity and then see what it is

28:23

and then work from that space, you

28:25

know what I mean. So I always approached it from a

28:27

place of humility when it comes to creating,

28:30

all right.

28:30

So the thing that I really want to know is

28:33

and notwithstanding and I mentioned at the top

28:35

that yes, okay, so full

28:37

force comes in and does something unprecedent

28:39

before, and they turn like the nine minute

28:41

song, the ten minute song into

28:44

like a four minute song. So

28:48

who knew between the two

28:51

of you the art of editing,

28:53

Because even on the album credits, right, it

28:56

says reduced by Rick Ruth. Yeah,

28:59

so was it weird to you writing just

29:01

sixteen bars and now you got to have a hook

29:04

and another sixteen bars, because you know,

29:06

before you rappers

29:08

just rap for it forever.

29:10

It wasn't weird to me because I loved

29:12

Rick James, and I loved

29:15

you know, Michael Jackson and Lonald

29:18

Ritchie and the Commodorees and the OJ's, and all

29:20

of them had choruses and all of them had songs

29:22

and it was arrangements. So I was

29:25

very comfortable with the idea of making

29:27

songs, you know, and I knew the difference

29:29

between you know, I knew what I

29:31

was doing. I was very conscious when

29:34

I would do a song that was

29:36

a song or when I'd just be doing a thing where I'm

29:38

rhyming, and I always understood the difference,

29:40

but without.

29:41

The standard of knowing like, oh, I

29:43

need a hook so this audience gets me, or

29:46

no, how do you know?

29:47

You follow the light? You

29:50

follow the light. You know what I'm saying.

29:51

You just get out of the way and follow the light.

29:53

So you know, when you're making music and

29:55

when you're creating something, you know, everything

29:58

is now it's science and art, right, it's ourn and science

30:01

and his soul land science

30:03

right, and you have to remember both. And there's a time

30:05

to get out of the way. There's a time for science, and

30:08

then there's a time to just follow the light. And

30:10

so, you know, with a lot of those

30:12

songs, it just felt like that's right, that's

30:14

it, you know what I'm saying, Like you know, I

30:16

mean even years later, I mean Rick Rubin was like,

30:19

you know, he was ready to jump off a roof about

30:21

I need love, you know really, but yeah,

30:23

but I but I wanted to follow the light.

30:25

You're like, you're like that much put it out first. He hated

30:27

it. He thought it was crazy.

30:29

But well, it's a very soft

30:31

record, I mean emotional, it's

30:33

vulnerable. It's like the exact opposite.

30:36

It's the antithesis of rock the bells, it's

30:38

the antithesis of some of

30:40

the other songs I've had done.

30:42

So it was very different, you know.

30:45

And but my thing was range

30:47

and doing different stuff and following the light

30:50

and trusting that.

30:51

But the thing was like we really

30:53

weren't stopped because you did. I can give you more

30:56

and I want you, which we're leaning towards that.

30:58

Yeah, it's the it's the execution, you know, it's

31:00

not just the idea, it's the execution. So the

31:02

execution was a lot more romantic, a lot

31:05

softer, a lot more gentle. I could give

31:07

you more, you.

31:10

Know what I mean?

31:12

I want you because I want you originally

31:14

was over in between the sheets.

31:16

You were thinking of sampling back.

31:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I wrote that to in between

31:20

the sheets.

31:21

Ship m okay, okay,

31:24

you know, and if you listen to it, if you put I want you vocals

31:26

over in between the sheets, would have it

31:28

would have been like it would have been crazy

31:31

Jesus Christ.

31:31

Like after I did successive, I Need Love. I'm

31:33

so curious about everybody else's revelation

31:36

because you already knew.

31:38

How the depth GM field when they first heard it. Yeah,

31:42

yeah, yeah, yeah, it was Yeah,

31:44

it was a great You had to sell it on.

31:50

In the room.

31:52

It just was like, you know, context is everything,

31:54

right, So it's kind of like it's

31:57

like seeing a basketball player after they've been wearing

31:59

them tidy white forever and then the basketball

32:01

player walks out.

32:02

With the long shorts. It's like, yeah,

32:04

what's that, you know, So it was just

32:06

like very new. It was just new. It was.

32:11

On you know, besides Faith knew men. There was no women

32:13

in the room at that time. I don't even know if Faith was

32:15

there yet. I don't even think Faith was there yet. It

32:17

was more like Heidi Smith secretary,

32:20

you know what I'm saying, like the receptionist.

32:22

You know, they were growing, we were still

32:24

we were still very new at that point. Because that was like

32:27

I had only I was only one album. Men and

32:29

Rick and Russell were gonna going through some things.

32:31

But but radio must have been radio then, not

32:33

the song, but actual radio that made I need.

32:36

Oh No Exploded Exploded. Exploded.

32:38

Exploded was one of the first rap songs I remember hearing

32:41

on.

32:41

You No Exploded.

32:42

That was one of the first rap songs I played GERI

32:45

Exploded.

32:49

So the way the way that records, that's hilarious.

32:51

The way that records work is that you would

32:53

have to put it out three months

32:56

ahead of time.

32:57

All Right, is conk created real named Brian,

33:00

Yeah, j Brin Philip. All Right.

33:01

So I went to school with

33:05

creator's cousin, so he

33:07

would always come in with

33:10

almost damn near demo quality stuff.

33:12

Right.

33:13

I heard like you can't dance, I heard like all this

33:15

stuff on. He bringing a cassette whatever.

33:17

He was like the popular kid in school, so he

33:19

had a copy a bigger endepthor

33:22

and I begged him again five bucks

33:24

to double the join for me.

33:26

When I heard I Need Love, I was like, yo, man

33:32

zoom. Yeah, first

33:36

verse read

33:40

it was all good was

33:44

number one for

33:47

like month.

33:48

That's hilarious.

33:49

For the first two months. Boy, I

33:52

was the man.

33:54

It's just surprised to me that that record that they

33:56

didn't get it, because especially like with Russell,

33:58

because what he was doing with you know.

34:00

Well, I think ob R.

34:01

I don't know if that was around the time that seemed

34:03

to be alone in his wheelhouse of like the kind

34:05

of R and B you know, BR

34:08

the.

34:08

Original recordings, but that was magic

34:11

and I got you Yeah, yeah that was later.

34:13

That was later. That's

34:15

when he got Rush associated labels and yeah,

34:18

that was later. I thought they would have been right down his lane

34:21

though. Yeah, I mean he was, he was with it, Russell

34:23

was with it.

34:24

But you know, you know, like you'd

34:26

be surprised, man, like how many songs I have

34:28

like that, Like there are a lot of songs around the way. Girl.

34:30

They wanted to give up on Wait what Yeah,

34:32

because it was slow at radios. Radio was

34:35

like resisting it because it was new doing

34:37

it. They didn't want to.

34:38

They was unsure about like Brenda's

34:40

got a big old but yeah, yeah.

34:43

They like that.

34:44

Yeah they did actually.

34:47

You know, so it is

34:49

crazy because like I would think,

34:51

as an n R, there weren't no who

34:54

I was gonna say, were you your on n R?

34:56

Yeah, there was no a n R.

34:57

You gotta remember we you know at that time,

35:00

you know in hip hop, there weren't

35:02

no managers. I mean, Russell was the only

35:05

guy that was even in that space,

35:07

and that he got in that space later.

35:10

So when when I first started, there were really no managers.

35:12

He was a promoter. There were

35:14

there was no an R. There

35:17

was no industry. There was no hip

35:19

hop industry. So

35:21

so they you know, it's a it's a completely

35:24

different type of mindset. Nobody

35:26

knows anything now. Every you

35:28

know, now it's like everybody

35:30

can kind of come off like a genius because

35:32

they know, you know, they got this Monday morning quarterbacking

35:35

and everybody's Mogo and all this history.

35:39

Yeah, there was no industry, so you know,

35:41

it's like no America, you know, it's

35:43

just like you know what I mean, It's it's like woods,

35:47

you know, it's very different like at

35:49

that point, you know, you know, now we're

35:52

like infrastructure.

35:56

Was just that's not a thing. No more like your

35:58

favorite producer or.

36:00

Well he it wasn't. Yeah, yeah, no

36:02

it's not. It was you know,

36:04

he wasn't even known like that, you know what

36:06

I'm saying. So it wasn't he was.

36:08

He wasn't known. It was he had one

36:10

song with Tela Rock. This

36:17

is a question I've been dying, dying to know. Okay,

36:20

so it was eighty five and Rick

36:22

Rubins, your producer. A

36:25

year later, Rick Rubin's gonna helm the

36:27

Raisin Hell record. So all

36:29

right, just for my satisfaction, at any

36:32

point while making the song rock

36:34

the Bells, did you ever think

36:37

to use Bob James's Take Me

36:39

to the Mardi Gras well the actual bells

36:41

on it.

36:41

I mean, that's really I've kind of got

36:44

into this before with the story, but the reality

36:46

is that was what the song was.

36:48

Noway, no, it was take

36:50

Me to the Mardi Gras.

36:50

I wrote it to that, and Rick, me and Rick

36:53

planned on doing it, and then Rick did

36:55

Peter Piper and I'm

36:57

like, yo, way, why didn't you win the tug of

36:59

a ward? Matt between Peter run DMC

37:01

had a gold album. They

37:04

were coming off of two albums. Two

37:06

albums at that point, right, like maybe

37:08

yeah, it was two albums and it was just a no no

37:11

to no no.

37:12

What it was was.

37:13

It's like it's kind of hard to like, look,

37:16

Jay is from my neighborhood, like running them from my neighborhood.

37:19

We all know take me to the Mardi Gras. I can't

37:21

really argue that, like they don't

37:23

know what it is.

37:24

I just had plans for it, and when Rick

37:26

I guess, you know, decided to you

37:29

know, do that with them, and one thing led to another

37:31

and they ended up with Peter Piper. But that's

37:33

why I made two Rock the Bells, because that's

37:35

why I made the original and didn't like

37:38

it because it wasn't what I wanted, and then made

37:40

the second one because I was changing Almos

37:42

the B side. The original was

37:44

never gonna happen because I was gonna do it to Marti

37:46

Gras. I got it so once I didn't do it to

37:48

Mardi Gras, I went in and we had to figure out

37:50

another one.

37:51

I did.

37:51

Originally I didn't like it, and I

37:53

was like, this ain't good enough because I wanted Marti Gras.

37:56

So then we made another song, the second

37:58

one that everybody cuts up.

37:59

How long did it take you to finally settle on

38:01

the Trouble Funk Go Go version.

38:03

It didn't take long. It kind of came together that.

38:05

You know, God had other plans. They came together,

38:07

well, they came together.

38:08

It was all good.

38:09

You know what I'm saying. You

38:12

know what I'm saying.

38:13

I love Listen, I

38:15

loved I was just talking to somebody about that the other

38:17

day. I love Go Go.

38:19

Like when when Chuck Brown and the Soul

38:21

searches that I'm bad over, I was like, Yo, that

38:23

was crazy. I love EU, you

38:26

know, junk Yard, you know what I'm saying,

38:28

like Chuck, all of them, Like I loved

38:31

the the Go Go scene,

38:33

So that was always influencing a lot

38:35

of what we did too, you know what I'm saying rhythmically.

38:37

So okay, you.

38:40

In all the first that I mentioned, you

38:43

know, I'll also say that what's different about

38:46

your success is

38:48

that unlike other

38:51

pioneers, Sam Cook, Ray Charles

38:53

James Brown, who kind of had to watch

38:56

the and I'll say the alternative

38:59

versions.

39:00

Themselves blow up.

39:00

I either Elvis syndrome, where

39:03

like you really became like the

39:06

first solo teen

39:09

idol. I mean, you just got to experience

39:11

stuff that neither Spooning nor Curtis

39:13

blowing them.

39:14

Got so in eighty

39:16

five, as this thing is

39:19

clearly going to be like.

39:22

Important, what is

39:25

stardom on that level

39:28

like that none of your peers in hip hop or experience

39:30

maybe an occasional run DMC will

39:32

know it.

39:33

But I think it's different when you're singular. So

39:36

what is that like?

39:37

Because I know by this point, because

39:40

the thing is like you have a cool

39:42

factor, a danger

39:44

you know, I think rappers a danger of factor,

39:46

a cool factor.

39:47

And all the things. Yeah, and

39:49

all that stuff.

39:50

So I know that people

39:52

are trying to insucubist

39:55

manner, like like just pull from your energy

39:57

and so hey, come hang with us, come party with us

39:59

too.

40:00

You wanted to what is it like in eighty

40:02

five doing what I would consider

40:04

the most not the botchers, but right

40:07

that period of a lot of the botchery.

40:10

So you know, it was

40:12

two things. It was like when I'm on toring them

40:15

on the road.

40:15

Like you know, if I go to a sneaker

40:17

stores, like crowds of kids outside, you know

40:19

what I'm saying, and.

40:21

You know, banging on a limo and chasing the limo,

40:24

and I doubt.

40:25

How long did it take for you to like, oh,

40:27

I can't be normal anymore?

40:29

Oh no eighty five? That was pretty much the

40:32

beginner.

40:32

Yeah yeah, or.

40:36

On like no hat, no glass, It doesn't matter.

40:39

They know it's okay, yeah, okay, it was okay.

40:42

Yeah yeah, So they knew, they knew, and

40:45

so it was that and then you know the

40:47

other side was, you know, just I was in Harlem

40:49

a lot when I was home, hanging out

40:51

with you know, you know, all

40:54

the guys that ultimately became the

40:56

Payton Full movie. So so

40:58

you know, it was like, yeah,

41:01

you knew those dudes. Oh no, that was who I hung

41:03

out with every day. I hung out with, you know, my

41:05

man Chuck and Rich and I'll poem

41:07

a Z. And that was where I kind

41:09

of as a young man. Those

41:12

are the guys that were around me. They kind of like took

41:14

me in and I had you know, I got rocked the bells

41:16

out and running around and Harlem with them all the

41:18

time. Whenever I'm home and then I go on the

41:20

road and do my shows and stuff like that, and

41:23

that's where, you know, so I started getting the

41:25

big cool j rings and the ice and the jewelry

41:27

and the firs and that, and all the cars

41:30

and the benches and all that.

41:31

I was bringing all of.

41:32

That hustler stuff to hip hop

41:34

because that's.

41:35

Who I was hanging out with.

41:36

You were more Harlem home based

41:38

than at that point. Yeah, I'm always Queens

41:41

forever. I'm an always

41:43

be a Queen's God Queen's by all means. That

41:45

being said, I did hang a lot. You know,

41:47

I formulated a lot of my you

41:49

know that energy. I learned a lot in Harlem.

41:52

So when when queens is

41:54

going through their first you

41:57

know, for an outsider like me hearing

41:59

the the Shan versus BDP war

42:02

thing like which,

42:04

now I clearly understand what's happened, you know, Shan's

42:07

Like, I didn't say that hip hop started in queens or whatever.

42:09

But do you feel some sort of way on the

42:11

sidelines watching someone kind

42:14

of go at queens when

42:17

Queens had nothing to do with the

42:20

battle or whatever, Like, did you feel at any point

42:22

like let me step in.

42:23

And no, because you know, you

42:25

know, to be honest with you, you know, especially you

42:28

know the mindset I had back then.

42:30

He was smart to put my name in it

42:32

and be complimentary on South

42:34

Bronks.

42:35

I totally forgot trying to take I didn't even

42:37

think.

42:37

About that, so so he you know, that was smart,

42:40

you know, especially the way I was built my mindset,

42:43

like it was best.

42:44

That that was the right approach that kept

42:46

me.

42:46

So you did sort of feel like, hey, yeah,

42:48

but it was but I was I was cool because,

42:51

you know, instead of tied to take out else,

42:53

I was like, okay, now

42:56

that I mentioned it, I totally forgot.

42:57

Did you pay attention at all to the

43:00

Shan thing at all? Oh? Yeah,

43:03

of course, of course. Are you ready

43:05

to respond to that?

43:06

No, no, because I didn't feel

43:09

I didn't feel disrespected like you just talking.

43:11

You know, the record we never Lady Beaton never

43:13

played that song in Philly, so I didn't know

43:15

about oh.

43:16

You mean with Shane when he went at me right, Oh

43:18

no, I didn't care about that. Man. I thought it

43:21

was funny, really, I mean, I mean

43:23

a limo, you know, like

43:29

it was hilarious, like.

43:32

I'm laughing at this ship, like you know, at that time,

43:34

come on, be like heat bite up. Okay,

43:37

Besides, I like the pattern though, you know

43:39

what I mean.

43:41

Besides, like you know, like the

43:44

folklore of busy bee and mod

43:47

like beef really really wasn't a thing.

43:49

Besides like the rock sand.

43:51

But for you, it's like obviously

43:53

there's something in you that makes people want

43:56

to like, Okay, he's at the top of the

43:58

pile, so let me try and take him out.

44:00

Like how how did that feel?

44:06

Like?

44:06

Did you have a by

44:08

that point? Did you have a

44:11

not a crew?

44:11

But I just mean, like your native

44:14

tongues like okay, well no, because

44:16

like I told you, I was joe it on ecstasy or

44:18

no, I have my dude, like I told you who I hung out

44:20

with. So that was my mindset. So if

44:23

anything, it was more like, you

44:26

know, just making sure that I'm protecting my territory.

44:29

That's the way I looked at it, Like I'm just not gonna

44:31

let nobody step on my toes. You

44:33

know, it's all good, but if you say something about me, I

44:35

gotta I gotta you know, you gotta get this cause

44:37

I gotta protect my territory.

44:39

That's the way I looked at it. It's very simple. Now,

44:41

I see, I know the history of it, but I never

44:44

knew how the mood in thing you started. Well,

44:46

mo, the more thing.

44:47

Look, first of all, I love them right Like Silver Fox

44:49

took me down to a studio one time he

44:52

was down there. I started rhyming in the studio. He's

44:54

he was doing doing a session or something. I

44:56

think we no, actually I wasn't. I was at

44:59

scratched that went to his session

45:01

and we were watching and he kicked me

45:03

in Silver Fox out the studio. He didn't want to sit there

45:05

and all that, you know. Oh

45:08

okay, so you know, but I

45:10

still never said nothing, you know what I mean.

45:12

That was on him.

45:13

And then he just decided I'm bigger and better than all

45:15

this, you know, and forget about that.

45:17

Put the kno on to the.

45:20

You know. And that's when I just started doing, you

45:22

know, going back and forth with him.

45:24

But he was like in your because even

45:26

then it was in my ear. I heard like I

45:28

heard your response after the fact, like again,

45:31

like who's in your he.

45:32

I didn't nobody. I didn't need nobody to tell

45:34

me.

45:35

That's it's kind of like, uh, you

45:37

know, there's some people they

45:39

just built to like they'll hide in the bushes and wait

45:42

for you, and nobody got to tell them to Some

45:45

people were built like that. Everybody

45:47

don't need to be told stuff like I've never been a guy

45:49

that I don't need you to tell me, nothing like like

45:52

I'm paying attention.

45:53

So it's like, you know, it's you a different animal

45:56

because I'm s But then

45:58

the reason why I'm asking you this because I think

46:00

it's amazing vote for starters. You know when

46:02

we talked about this briefly on the tour that

46:05

you know, because I do was wondering, well, how's this iced

46:07

teething gonna work? Like you know,

46:11

but then I realized, like, wow, that's crazy. Like LL

46:13

has amicable relationships with

46:16

everyone. Clearly it was a sport.

46:18

Oh definitely, I never ever ever.

46:20

But we also come from a culture in which blood

46:23

has been easily shd without even thinking

46:25

about it.

46:25

So let me let me tell you. I can explain that to you.

46:27

So one thing I learned right and

46:30

this is this is the honest to god truth by

46:32

me hanging out with gangsters so much as

46:35

a youngster, I learned

46:37

that the last thing you want to do is walk around trying

46:39

to be tough.

46:40

That's how you get yourself in trouble trying

46:43

to be a tough guy. So what does

46:45

that mean?

46:46

That means that now, mind you, if somebody tries

46:48

to do something to you, that's a different conversation. We're not talking

46:50

about that. But I'm talking about the wondering around which

46:52

your chest poked out. That's how you get yourself in

46:54

trouble. So when I see mo or when I see

46:56

it, it's not I'm not beefing, it's

46:58

what it is. Okay, you said that, that's

47:01

where we're gonna leave it at, and

47:03

we're gonna leave you know what I mean, Like, it's not I don't

47:05

have to get it, doesn't have to go further

47:08

than that, because I'm confident in

47:10

my skill set on the

47:12

mic to handle this. Okay, that's

47:15

how it felt, and I didn't see any

47:17

reason to try to go further

47:19

than it. Plus yeah, because why I'm

47:21

not gonna test you as a man.

47:22

I don't need to do that.

47:23

I don't need to try to test ice tea as a man, or

47:25

test mode as a man, or put them in a position

47:28

where they got we gotta gotta go further, because then

47:30

that's just that's kind of what speak to my weakness.

47:32

It's more about like, Yo, this is

47:35

what you said. Okay, so we're gonna settle it

47:37

like this, that's where you want it now.

47:39

I mean, you know, man, and I

47:41

wouldn't go go for everything if everyone else has.

47:44

Followed to fast forward thirty further

47:46

or more years seeing him on that

47:48

four store in the form that was

47:50

a moment and also realizing that y'all have

47:52

been these men who you are today longer than

47:55

anything before being famous. So I'm

47:57

so curious, like in that moment, I know y'all greeted each other

48:00

the backstage and everything, but did y'all have a moment

48:02

of like damn, first of all, hip hop built this and second

48:04

of.

48:04

All, brother, Yeah, I want to look.

48:06

I told I said, listen, man, do what you do?

48:08

Man. I told him, like, yo, Ice,

48:11

get out there, do what you do. Remember, I'm like, Yo,

48:13

do it you want in this? And

48:18

Ice came to me like, yo, man, I don't want

48:20

to do that. Like you know, I'm.

48:23

So weird watching him because he's too too olda to most people

48:25

in real life anyway, So him do those songs

48:28

is also kind of.

48:28

Like but I loved it, like my thing is like yo.

48:32

It was like, that's why I still did I shot you. I

48:34

still said Crutch CRUs

48:36

I love him, but that's my man.

48:38

I love Ice.

48:38

I love him, But I'm gonna still do the songs like

48:40

I'm not gonna respectfully, Like you

48:43

always got to ask yourself this question.

48:45

If you did then what you're doing now, would you be hearing

48:47

now?

48:48

I'm not. I'm not changing that.

48:50

I'm not gonna be editing my songs and pretending

48:52

that the song was something different because I've gone to a

48:54

different stage in life.

48:56

I'm not doing that. You know what, I'm

48:59

doing the song miss right, I'm doing

49:01

the song. This is the song now.

49:02

I was so happy to see at the show because that

49:04

first of all, that was my first time ever seeing you live, and

49:07

so I was so happy to see you do.

49:10

Jack the Ripper, I knew he was gonna do the hits. He's like, Okay,

49:12

no, we're gonna get him bad. I know we're gonna get Mama

49:14

said knock you out. But bro Jack

49:16

the Ripper missed the good ball.

49:18

I was like, yo. I

49:23

was like, oh this here

49:25

we did Candy. I was like, oh, he that

49:28

was for us. That his filler is

49:30

just as important as the Hitle. Yeah

49:33

you said it.

49:35

Also shout out to you know, the Z Trip also,

49:37

yeah, but you did say it. You guys both said

49:39

it's important. It was important to do

49:42

both, all right. So what I want

49:44

to know is, uh, god, we're

49:46

still in the eighty seventh.

49:48

How did you meet the l A Posse? Right?

49:50

And why didn't Rick produce

49:53

the second album?

49:54

So? Rick and Russell got into a beef over I don't

49:56

know what it was about. Whatever it was, they

49:58

started having ten in their relationship.

50:01

Rick was angry and you know

50:04

somehow they separated or

50:06

and Rick didn't want to produce it because of that

50:08

reason.

50:09

So it was political.

50:09

It had nothing to do with me, mind you

50:12

we later you want to work with him, of course,

50:14

absolutely. I mean it was a comfort zone at that

50:16

point, you know. I mean we had just

50:18

had this platinum album, like it was. Everything

50:21

was great, but you know, politics.

50:23

So it was time for the second album and

50:26

in the LA Posse were working

50:29

on records with another artist.

50:31

In the records, was sounded like they were

50:33

trying to make ell sounding songs.

50:36

It sounded like they were making ll sounding songs

50:39

to Russell, so Russell played, gave

50:41

me, told me to get with them, and

50:44

so I got with them and we started

50:46

talking and vibing and you know, we were all you

50:48

know, there was just some dudes from California,

50:50

which I loved.

50:51

Yeah, Now, how strange of an

50:54

adjustment was that?

50:55

It wasn't strange at all, because you know, my father

50:57

had moved out to Cali and I had

51:00

when I was fourteen, you know what I'm saying. I had

51:02

been out there already with my pops a little bit, and

51:05

so you know, getting

51:07

with Bobcat and getting with Muffler and getting with

51:10

all of those guys in California, I loved it. And

51:12

they would take me down in the hood and all that, and

51:14

you know, Bob Cat would have me down

51:17

there over this set and all this.

51:19

Oh man, it was the while out.

51:21

So you know, we you know, I love Cali.

51:23

So that's why I have such great

51:25

relationships and friendships in California

51:27

and so many, so much love out there. So my second

51:30

album, This is eighty seven, I made him bad. I

51:32

need love all them songs with Cali producers.

51:34

So I was already kind

51:36

of with like getting

51:40

outside of the box. It didn't it was about the music.

51:42

For me, it wasn't about where you're from, because I felt

51:44

like I was gonna write the songs and bring

51:47

bring to it what I needed to bring.

51:48

To it, you know what I mean.

51:50

So that was the vibe, you know what I'm saying. Wow,

51:52

And we ended up.

51:53

So that's when we you know, you had KD and Greg

51:56

Mack and you know, you know,

51:58

world on wheels and did

52:00

you live out there? You just no, no, Actually

52:03

I brought them to Queen's and they

52:05

lived across the street from my grandmother's house.

52:07

I got them a room and then yeah,

52:09

yeah, I got them a room.

52:10

And the lady across the street from me her house

52:13

in the basement, so they was living across the street.

52:15

You got to answer this one question for me, what is

52:17

a recording budget? So

52:20

Pots told me on tour the three ft Hind Rising

52:22

was made for fourteen

52:27

No No No three Rise

52:29

of May for twenty one thousand to

52:31

save money, because

52:34

Possa told me that a Q tip

52:36

verse got to raise from Afro Connections at a high five

52:39

because Paul was trying to save two

52:41

inch tape. So he told me dyl

52:44

Sous Dead cost fourteen thousand dollars.

52:47

What is what was a budget

52:49

for a record back

52:51

then?

52:52

Well?

52:52

It varied, so you know, I mean

52:55

on around that second album, I don't know, maybe

52:58

somewhere between one hundred and fifty and two and fifty, okay,

53:00

somewhere around.

53:01

There, it seemed like it was fairy for

53:03

them. Correct.

53:04

It was crazy, I mean.

53:06

It was, I mean it was I mean,

53:08

you know, you get a bench for thirty

53:10

g's It was crazy.

53:12

It was you rocking like

53:14

you are out of control with that, like you sky's

53:17

the limit baby?

53:18

Whoa, we're in here now? Do you still own your grandmother's

53:20

house?

53:21

Yeah?

53:21

So what is it about that

53:24

environment?

53:24

Because I believe that you said that you always

53:27

write your best when you're in that environment,

53:29

so.

53:29

So you know, you know, my

53:32

my uncle told me there was some magic there.

53:34

So you know, I just believe if you're gonna

53:36

if you're gonna write songs for people,

53:39

you have to be able to relate to the people. Even

53:41

even nowadays, you know, jumping in and out

53:43

of you know, uber blacks and town calls

53:45

or being fancy, you're not connecting with

53:48

the world and the thing that you lose

53:50

sight of all of y'all.

53:54

Literally, right, he's here, but I feel

53:56

like maybe out like you know what I.

53:58

Mean, that's about you, not about

54:02

you know, Gid.

54:07

I so

54:09

you gotta be a nice car too, by the way, very

54:13

nice, very nice. I was like, yo, I gotta get

54:15

one of them. That was very nice, very

54:17

nice. Maybe quest got a very

54:19

nice. Maybe that's is nice.

54:22

Mean, that's just mean. Let

54:26

him cook, let

54:29

him cook.

54:30

So I'm like, yo, so but you

54:32

know, I just I just feel like you got to connect

54:34

with the people. And the thing you lose sight of is danger,

54:36

and danger makes you write differently.

54:38

Wait, did I hear a rumor that you once

54:41

entertained the thought of writing at

54:43

Rikers or some ship like, Well,

54:46

I.

54:46

Visited the jails a lot.

54:48

I visited the jails a lot, I did. I visited

54:50

the jails quite.

54:50

But did I imagine that you actually said,

54:53

like I gotta know, I would visit the jail and then

54:55

go to the studio. I did that during the Gold

54:57

album.

54:57

Actually you visited the folks there,

55:00

and to somebody personally.

55:01

Both I knew guys in that I didn't know it was

55:03

in there, and just yeah,

55:10

I went up norf Right now, I probably know half to do

55:13

that.

55:13

Joy like three decades after there

55:15

were three decades plus after the fact, do

55:18

you find okay?

55:20

So I understand that

55:24

some might see and

55:26

I'm not one of these people. As

55:28

evidence of how many songs I'm trying to throw

55:30

from from Panther in the set, right, that

55:34

people's relationship with Panther is

55:36

different. After the fact that it came out, Light

55:39

told me the story about your

55:41

involvement with self Destruction. Oh yeah,

55:43

and I didn't realize that

55:45

you wrote lights verse and he told

55:48

d nice, like, look, not for nothing.

55:50

But when I come back, I got to come back on something.

55:52

Yeah, So you like, can you tell

55:55

the self destruction?

55:56

Yeah?

55:56

Self destruction.

55:57

So basically, you know, they asked me to

55:59

be a part of the song, and at that time,

56:01

I just didn't want to do it.

56:02

I just didn't.

56:03

I just didn't feel like that was the right

56:05

way for me to reintroduce myself

56:08

to everybody coming off of this record that had

56:10

been kind of you know, panned

56:13

and people sleeping on me and all that. But at

56:15

the same time, I wanted to make

56:17

a contribution of some sort, so I wrote mc

56:19

Light's part, you know, Scott's table to raise a blade

56:21

tape to.

56:22

Your collar and all that.

56:23

You know.

56:24

Yeah, yeah, so I did that for Light and

56:27

you know I felt great. You know, people didn't

56:29

know, and I was cool with that. You know what I'm saying, Like I've done

56:31

that a lot.

56:32

You know what I'm saying, the Self Destruction joint that made

56:34

me think, the Heal record, the

56:37

Human Education.

56:38

I guess lies, why weren't you in the video for that one

56:41

of those records?

56:41

I was busy and then you know,

56:44

man, my schedule back then,

56:48

you know, was different from most rappers.

56:50

You know what I'm saying.

56:51

I was on a different level. Yeah, so

56:54

I was on a different level. So I just was busy

56:56

and I just couldn't do some things and I

56:59

would say no to other things. And you know, I'm

57:01

unapologetic about it, you know what I'm saying, Like it

57:03

is what it is, bro Like I did

57:05

it many times, you know, ye.

57:10

Like two years ago, I just someone's

57:13

like, you know, that's not ll and no, it is,

57:16

it is, that's you.

57:16

That's absolutely me in the video.

57:18

Absolutely Then my listen,

57:21

the real story is that you know, at that time,

57:24

I was in I think I was in contract negotiations.

57:26

I was midway through it.

57:27

My father just who was my manager at that time, just

57:30

absolutely did not want me in that video

57:32

and just drove me absolutely bananas.

57:35

And I said, well, we got to figure something out. So, you

57:37

know, I finally just say, you know what, let's

57:39

just just put a silhouette there. I do it for a silhouette

57:42

because I can't play these guys like that, right, And so

57:44

I did it with the silhouette, you know what I'm

57:46

saying. So that was my way of doing

57:49

something for you know what I'm saying. That was

57:51

my way of doing something for them, because my pops was driving

57:53

me bananas.

57:54

And yeah, what was that light having him as your manager?

57:57

Bro?

57:57

My father was.

57:59

He was funny man. He was something else.

58:01

He was something else because remember he had his own label before

58:04

that, he had you know, he had

58:07

a label. He's yeah, my father, you know, had

58:09

labeled Sauce of ple Conte and records,

58:12

and you know he used to you know, work with you know,

58:14

different artists like the Coasters and different people,

58:16

and he was, yeah,

58:19

my father, Yeah, my father was a singer.

58:20

He was a singer.

58:22

Yeah, he's a soul singer. And so he was

58:24

you know what I'm saying.

58:25

And so you know,

58:27

but he was funny.

58:28

Man, You're gonna get this kid his money, pulling out knives

58:30

on the record company.

58:32

These bananas. I

58:36

loved him. I loved the man. He

58:38

was something else.

58:39

He was Oh he was. Oh he was a piece

58:41

of work.

58:41

Was He managed you until he couldn't anymore.

58:44

He managed me until it

58:46

got over his head.

58:47

It just, honestly, it just it

58:50

just to be honest with you, to give you the real honest

58:53

answer that the the the career

58:55

and the money that was the stuff that came,

58:58

it got beyond his ability

59:00

to handle. You know what I'm saying, And it's you

59:02

know, I get it. You know, I

59:05

got to pay my taxes, y'all.

59:08

My taxes gotta be paid. Like we can we can

59:11

talk about all that tough guys, ship he stops

59:13

and equity are Did you pay your taxes?

59:16

Like like, let's start there, you know what I mean? So I

59:18

gotta pay Yeah, I gotta pay

59:20

my taxes. So I was like, yo, you

59:22

know, I start getting little calls like how

59:24

much what I'm asking him?

59:26

And he don't worry about it.

59:28

My bad wine from trading

59:30

Joe's on the corporate card. I'm like, yo, come on, beat

59:35

it ain't that big of a deal, but it was just like, come

59:37

on, you know, I feel I love

59:39

him. Though I love him, he was a good guy.

59:42

What up?

59:42

Quls fam Okay, So I

59:45

think this is the perfect place to stop Part one.

59:48

Can you believe one hour? And we only got to nineteen

59:50

ninety yep, believe it.

59:52

But we wanted to take our time with this one because

59:54

y'all know this is years in the making. So

59:57

come back next week or check out your podcast

59:59

feed. Part two of QLs

1:00:02

and l L Cool check This

1:00:04

one was definitely worth the way. Shout

1:00:07

out to l L and make sure you stay tuned

1:00:09

for his album The Force.

1:00:13

Thank you for listening to quest Love Supreme. This

1:00:16

podcast is hosted by Amir quest

1:00:18

Love, Thompson, boss Man, Light

1:00:21

Here, Saint Clair, So Black and the Black

1:00:23

Myself, Fontigelo, Fonte Coleman,

1:00:26

Sugar, Steve Mandell and Unpaid

1:00:29

Bill Sherman.

1:00:30

The executive producers are a Mere quest

1:00:32

Love, Thompson, Sean g and the

1:00:34

Unbothered Brian Calhoun.

1:00:36

Produced by Britney Benjamin, my dog

1:00:39

Cousin, Jake Payin, my motherfucking Man

1:00:42

and like I's Saint Clair my work

1:00:44

wife edited by Alex Conroy.

1:00:47

Produced for Our Heart by Noel Brown and Mike

1:00:49

Johns. Audio engineering by

1:00:52

Graham Gibson akauble g

1:00:54

at i Heeart's La Studio.

1:00:57

Thank you for tuning in. Check us out next

1:00:59

week. M's

1:01:04

Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

1:01:09

For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit

1:01:11

the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1:01:14

or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.