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1:23

wherever you get your podcasts. It's

1:53

April, Jazz and Fudation Month, and

1:55

this two-parter certainly celebrates the genre

1:57

and Culture, and how it shapes so much..

2:00

the music album and. There's

2:12

a question. I've been dying. To

2:14

know. In the mid

2:16

seventies. Jazz Cats.

2:19

Now I'm a case. If you're Miles Davis

2:21

disciple I understand like M to me are

2:23

explain to us. That. Miles

2:25

is dependency. Was. Getting out

2:27

of control in the early seventies. And.

2:31

Then he's basically not to functional.

2:34

And. The band's left without work

2:36

and they're basically like while. We

2:38

gotta pay the rent. And. You

2:40

know that M M's you may end

2:43

Reggie Lucas. A Miles Davis's I

2:45

You Know There were like Will Sit We

2:47

got to write. Some hits.

2:50

Said. Pay the bills you. Can

2:52

you explain to me? Why?

2:55

There is such a mass. Exodus.

2:59

Of use a music since

3:01

of jazz musicians. That.

3:03

All of a sudden in the mid seventies. Became

3:06

the architects and the proprietors have

3:09

some of the. Copy.

3:11

A Songs we've ever heard. It's

3:13

almost like a complete opposite. What

3:15

was. The transition all. Decision.

3:18

Process. To.

3:21

Get out of susan and into

3:23

pop music. Burgers, Or got

3:25

you a my thirds alarmed because

3:27

awakening. I was getting it in. L

3:30

A. Honesty Wonder Studio. And

3:33

when Anderson was one of them producer type people

3:35

with me in his team's know that and then

3:37

I got a call after I put my music

3:40

you know B o some cool stuff that I'm.

3:43

Jim Delany, I'm from Atlantic, was my and or

3:45

he said, "You know what if you don't have

3:47

a hit on his next album, more going to

3:50

drop" And that was the root of

3:52

death to me. I knew that

3:54

things were going to change. He read he told

3:56

me to the New York discos hot, not dancing.

3:59

Overseas. 54 people really it's like a big

4:01

craze we really suggest

4:03

that you come to New York

4:06

and see what's going on and

4:09

I did and when I went there I

4:11

felt we was talking about it

4:13

was on fire with dance and

4:16

that wasn't hard for me because I'm

4:18

raised with no time I'm raised with new people all kind of music

4:21

so after I cut the

4:23

awakening stuff and in California I

4:26

decided I'd make a side side one that was

4:28

strictly for dance and

4:30

saved my career and not be dropped and

4:32

I used the examples of Rick James you and I he

4:35

was a good person for me to kind of

4:37

draw from because it was live drums it was

4:39

funky it was live was horns things I loved

4:42

it was a style I could I could pull off so

4:44

in my hotel room at the Hilton in my

4:46

I got a clap net and a Rhodes in my room and

4:49

I wrote four jams and I don't nobody else was

4:51

one of those jams and I was

4:53

so lucky to get Bobby Quinn Mountain Power Station to

4:55

be my my engineer what

4:58

records he made with chic

5:00

on good times I've

5:03

never heard a more beautiful record the fucking

5:05

good times and it happened

5:07

be my engineer do my drum sound yeah

5:09

see so I'm cutting those records I don't

5:12

know else and guess what else now

5:14

I got Randy Brecker coming coming with Michael Brecker

5:17

and David same would have put horns on my

5:19

jam so it's real musicians see it so I'm

5:21

happy and then they said you got to use

5:23

a cat who's big in disco named Patrick Patrick

5:26

Adams yes because his name

5:28

in the disco world with the strings and

5:30

living he does he and people make sure

5:32

you you know okay so I'm

5:34

you know and he didn't come around him

5:36

that much but he might come out a little sound or something

5:38

to the thing well if he's cool what

5:42

I'm saying is cutting that music and

5:44

then when I had success with

5:48

that sound it

5:50

saved my career at that time I didn't want to

5:52

be dropped I wanted to be a strong person make

5:54

it I just got married I want

5:56

to take care of my life and

5:59

it's fusion area music as we know it was

6:01

going away. The people and the fans for

6:03

example, Garden Love Line. That

6:06

album didn't sell that much. I

6:08

wasn't like some overnight star. People weren't

6:10

the big people. They were not supporting but they loved

6:13

the fusion at those times going forward in the

6:15

70s. Really on yes but not those

6:17

years. Those years it was a change up going on.

6:20

Even Lenny White with my man, Return to

6:22

Forever. Everything's kind of like mmm. So what

6:24

are you gonna do? You know what I

6:26

mean? If you're gonna support me fine. We're

6:29

making money. No money. I'm

6:31

going where I'm going to save my life. I

6:33

did brother. I got some time. I'm happy

6:36

I did. It was wonderful. And

6:38

every album I do I always put you

6:40

know a son of a dancing cat jam on there. So

6:43

I can still do that and I love it. But

6:45

I'm about having a radio hit and making some

6:47

money so I'm not shining shoes. I

6:50

know that you've had Randy Jackson in your

6:52

stable since he was a teenager and

6:55

not Michael's brother but Randy

6:57

Jackson, American Idol, Randy Jackson since

6:59

he was 16, 17, 18 years

7:01

old I believe. But I always thought that was

7:06

him killing I Should Have

7:09

Loved You. Someone told me like two

7:11

weeks ago that was TM Stevens. That's right. Can

7:13

you please tell me just about TM

7:18

Stevens and tell me what it was like working

7:20

with him. TM's a genius. I

7:22

was in New York. I still lived

7:24

in New York. I met TM before I moved to California in

7:26

78. So in 77 of my most years I

7:28

met TM. He'd be like the studio owner

7:30

of the bass. He had that kind of power, that kind of

7:32

energy. Like just a huge

7:35

band with the strength of

7:37

God in his hands. Like that. To be

7:44

dropping the two in the four as he's playing with lines.

7:47

And just he was playing with a show

7:49

called Your Arms Too Short to Box of

7:51

God. And A drummer named Holly great

7:54

from Queens. And Holly became my connection out in

7:56

the Queens area. All those great drummers out in

7:58

Queens area too. The of

8:00

the bambee all these new cast the come up

8:02

with the with the great skills and then as

8:04

it worked out. I'll do a tour.

8:07

Barnabas. Dance you said put a ban

8:09

to get the science to and of drama

8:11

my to obey him in own fully say

8:13

sort of a Berkeley to play keyboards and

8:15

path thrall from Automatic Man from California come

8:17

play guitars and but a pop band together

8:19

toward. And then. Came.

8:21

Time for the for that my for Salaam become

8:23

death of life. And I'm living

8:25

and seems as cause I thought of bring Tm Stevens out

8:27

here to woke up as new material with me. And.

8:30

I know I start another yet I'll be dropped. So.

8:33

As it worked out a been to California. Below.

8:36

Were also open. As it's he'll play game

8:38

with you. Or put his groove on

8:40

the drums and everyone has hit the hit the symbol.

8:42

Change. Based months. And

8:44

he be playing the baseline everyday right

8:46

now that I plan symbol going to

8:49

change a person with a change them

8:51

finally cracked. As good to do the

8:53

procedure, did it. I couldn't get to

8:55

discuss it at the moon. Do do

8:57

do do do do with say about

8:59

the I just generally. Of

9:01

because of his shit up. that was

9:03

team up. That's his massive baseline. Read.

9:07

As wasn't around and after he came later again

9:09

but other the idea of a funny one of

9:11

the place I should loves like the I'm Stevens.

9:14

Is most massive death in the world. Of

9:16

a long as I thought it was when you

9:18

know if it came out when I was eight.

9:20

So I thought of his seat at initially. Yeah.

9:24

White. Said. I'm says realizing

9:26

now before she passed away. Or

9:28

we had alley was on the show us

9:30

and see was his mind blown that we

9:32

knew or whole. Discography only

9:34

because a lot of the work

9:36

that she did. Wound.

9:39

Up being like iconic samples that we would

9:41

later gravitate towards And so she was kind

9:43

of weirded out that we like newer history

9:45

but. Added you wake up with her

9:48

to write. That's all. well case she's in

9:50

the L A, I'm in San Cisco and

9:52

I hear about her work because of the

9:54

mores white version of biased was exploding with

9:56

her name on it. right? Or

9:58

knew I knew she was mean. Somehow

10:00

or other, I came in a touch with

10:02

her because of republishing people productive. The company

10:04

has barred owl marvin. And. Occupied

10:06

or number the I talked on the phone.

10:09

Come. To find out she's from damn my

10:11

hometown Detroit Michigan of Kalamazoo seasons rights to

10:14

We have a kind of a bond immediately.

10:16

And that I love that which was doing so

10:18

will come down to my house. Cited about my

10:20

i should Love You down to our house and

10:22

our house vault. With. That were whenever

10:25

things like old fashioned looking. Or. Dolls

10:27

and old things and will get an old

10:29

a separate within a better we would be

10:31

their career before. It

10:34

out of ten. Oh okay. But.

10:36

We sat down and wrote alert for Us in Love

10:38

and She was his mean. To. Her brain

10:40

thought, you know, Okay, that's sort

10:42

seats he said that house. Of

10:45

kids aren't. It was pretty be

10:47

or know there's to was first how she had

10:49

was a com a smaller apartment house. Target

10:51

when the big one smaller but and all that

10:54

stuff and then later on as we didn't even

10:56

closer and friendlier over and over years than she

10:58

gets drowsy the you're talking about. Yeah.

11:00

And we were always tied them to tell me

11:02

about the process of have gone into producing and.

11:05

What? Did you learn that you couldn't apply

11:07

for yourself as you wound up giving. To.

11:10

Other artists. Will. At

11:12

that time I was hot with thy son

11:14

Loves you Time Alright those records want to

11:17

turn me on an eye as Henry out

11:19

who the present Between records. He's.

11:21

A partner with a medical records. Black

11:24

gentleman Henry and yet another Henry Jones.

11:26

Or guardian is he in his team They

11:29

had signed Stacey which is by eleven and

11:31

I'm did mean when they're recording but it

11:33

wasn't doing well. I said henry know this

11:35

girl's these You want you to let me

11:37

do some. Songs. On her or

11:39

do for songs. As. You like Mothers' Day?

11:41

I'm if you don't like me on last much as four songs. And.

11:44

He says you know what? Good idea. To.

11:47

Do do so I took a

11:49

very very seriously is my first

11:51

real shall I put up production.

11:54

Might. My first Jasper that lives. As with it's

11:56

a getting. A. don cherry did

11:59

our best I used to write a rose,

12:01

more jazz, you know, with Tony Williams and all that

12:03

stuff. So in the pop world, it

12:05

was Stacey Latt Yes. So

12:08

then I wrote these songs with a girl named Bunny

12:10

Hall. Bunny came to my house in

12:12

San Francisco. And my wife at

12:14

the time, Lisa Walden. I

12:17

wrote these songs, Let It Be Your Angel, Dynamite,

12:20

Jump to the Beat. And

12:23

I flew to go to Stacey's house. She

12:26

had a very small house. I'm like a little spinet piano. And

12:29

I just got on her piano and just kind of went through

12:31

these, teaching her the songs. So make sure the keys are right

12:34

and all that. And

12:36

then came back to San Francisco at the Sausalito

12:38

record plant where Princeton made his

12:40

first album. In

12:43

there I got my big drum sound. Tommy

12:46

Tommy Fly, the same guy that did James's records, Honorary

12:49

Beere Angel, Dynamite, got a great sound with

12:51

my band, Carano Guitar, T.M.

12:53

on bass, Frank Martin

12:56

on keyboards, and laid that stuff out and might

12:58

give strings, laying it out. Then

13:00

went to Power Station to get

13:02

her vocals on those songs. And here she's

13:04

about 11 years old. That

13:07

big voice you hear. And

13:09

I wanted to get it just right and we did. And

13:13

it became his for. So I was

13:15

just very, very, very, very, very proud of that time. And

13:17

it opened up a lot of doors for me because of that. T.M.

13:21

then Clive Davis calling and everybody else

13:23

calling because I had

13:25

that kind of success with Stacey. And the Stacey

13:27

actually went on to open for Michael Jackson and Jackson Fauquier, that's something

13:29

I had to mix you got with T.M. and Stephen on bass. I

13:32

was going to ask with their work with

13:34

Stacey and then also going on with Shanice

13:36

and Kevin Campbell, what was

13:38

kind of your, I

13:40

guess your formula for working with children? Because

13:43

that's something that's really hard to do, like

13:45

to write material that is, can't sell, but

13:47

it's also as age appropriate. You know what

13:49

I'm saying? How did you kind of figure

13:52

that out and, you know, and kind of

13:54

find that balance? You have

13:56

to have a great hook. The hook of the words will

13:58

always save you as far as. making money on

14:00

a music business, the hook, the chorus. And

14:03

I'm always aware of like, well, who is it? Stacy, she's 11,

14:05

12. This whole angel

14:07

concept is always cool, you know? And

14:10

then she could talk, you know, you might think I'm

14:12

too young to understand, but don't be fooled, you know?

14:14

Like a child, you know, I look into your eyes

14:16

and I know someday, you know, I'll make you mine.

14:18

I don't make kiddie music. That doesn't

14:20

work. I learned from Michael Jackson the early,

14:22

I want you back, you know, those records.

14:25

You gotta make records that everyone can party to, and

14:27

I'm gonna make you my caveats.

14:29

So I didn't try to make kiddie records. You

14:31

mentioned Shani's Wilson. She came here, she was

14:33

16, and I said write

14:35

down seven song titles, and she did. Just, and I had

14:37

to be lonely, I love your smile. Da da da da

14:40

da da da da da da. And I went on a

14:42

keyboard and just wrote those songs. And

14:44

God bless me, just I love. Da da

14:46

da da da da da da da da

14:49

da da da da da da da da

14:51

da. I

14:54

love you, so much. Just

14:56

looking at her. You can feel the

14:58

energy coming off her, and I have smile on her,

15:01

she's gone. That's what it was. Taven Campbell, when Quincy

15:03

Jones brought him here, I looked at him.

15:06

Just so beautiful, thin,

15:08

a genius singer

15:10

like Whitney. Said, well

15:12

you need a song to showcase your voice. A

15:16

tour de force, man. What

15:20

you wanna do, Taven? Taven, what

15:22

you want me to do? Yeah, Taven, what you want me to do?

15:24

That's how they, just that simple. You

15:27

know, man, you gotta put the big modulation, so you can

15:29

really go on. Right, right, right. Jimmy

15:33

Jam kinda teases me, because when

15:36

I was a kid, whenever a song would

15:38

modulate, that would scare me. Okay. And so,

15:40

cause it sounds dramatic. Yeah. And

15:42

so, wait, but here's the thing, you,

15:46

you know, often in my obsession with

15:48

historical firsts, Yeah. I

15:51

will actually say, that

15:54

if someone were to be credited

15:56

with like, the

15:58

really first attempt, at

16:01

New Jack Swing. I

16:04

would say Attack of the Name game might

16:08

be the

16:10

first experimentation of

16:13

making a singer sing

16:15

on a backtrack that

16:18

could be made for hip-hop. For

16:21

those who don't know, was

16:23

it the Sneakin' Out album? Yeah. Yeah.

16:26

So Stacey Latticell's, I think, well,

16:28

I know she had albums before Let

16:31

Me Be Your Angel. So I would

16:33

say her fourth album, maybe her third or fourth album. But

16:36

there's a song, Attack of the Name game, which

16:40

even when I heard it as an 11-year-old, I

16:42

was like, oh, this is kind of made

16:44

for me. Like, this isn't a song

16:46

that my dad would gravitate towards because this

16:48

sounds like rap music that

16:50

I like. What was the process in

16:53

trying to go there? Thank you. That's

16:56

very cool, man. Two things.

16:58

One, borrowing from the 60s idea

17:00

of, you know, Banana Fanta, Pho

17:02

Fanta, Me My Mo, Man of the Take and

17:04

That vibe, which I had paid them for, which

17:06

I didn't mind because I, well, I love the

17:08

college stuff. And then I joined that with- Wait,

17:10

really? Yes, I did. Yes, I

17:12

did. And then I joined that with my brain and made

17:14

my own version of Tom Tom Club, which was so hot

17:16

in New York. Oh, you're right. Yeah.

17:21

I take all those things and mix them

17:23

together. Let me let the listeners know. Yeah,

17:25

Attack of the Name game is what Mariah

17:27

sampled for Heartbreaker. Heartbreaker. Yeah. Yeah, that's right.

17:30

That's right. So I was always looking to

17:32

New York and even London too, but

17:34

I was always going to be the next wave. So

17:36

I caught that wave, man. And I'm

17:39

just, you know, and then I got Stacey to

17:41

do the thing. And her brother became that kind

17:43

of sound talking, like

17:45

the alien from out of the face. See,

17:48

I thought that was you. That

17:50

was her brother. Ah, nice. Okay. With

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18:26

to 500 Greatest Dollies. A

18:28

podcast based on rolling stones,

18:30

hugely popular, influential, and sometimes

18:32

controversial list. I'm

18:34

Brittany Stannos. And I'm Rob Sheffield. We're

18:36

here to shed light on the greatest songs

18:38

ever made and discover what makes them so

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great. Every week we'll pick a

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new song from the list and talk about their placement on

18:45

the revamped 2021 list. We'll

18:47

also have guests join us ranging

18:49

from the artists themselves to the producers

18:51

or simply other writers like

18:53

ourselves who voted on them. From classics

18:55

like Fleetwood Mac's Dreams to The Ronettes,

18:57

Be My Baby, and modern day classics

19:00

like The Killer's Mr. Brightside and Britney

19:02

Spears' Baby One More Time. There's

19:04

so many fascinating stories that have been

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forgotten like Midnight Train to Georgia starting

19:09

with the phone call to Farrah Fawcett

19:11

or how the Yeah Yeah Yes inspired

19:13

Kelly Clarkson's banger Since You've Been Gone

19:15

and Beyonce's Hold Up. Listen to Rolling

19:18

Stones 500 Greatest Songs on the iHeart

19:20

Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

19:22

you get your podcasts. Hi,

19:26

I'm John O'Brien, host of Money and

19:28

Wealth on the Black Effect Podcast Network.

19:31

I'm an entrepreneur and a businessman. Some would

19:33

call a thought leader. Now,

19:36

every Thursday, my newest venture

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is educating you on how

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to win financially. Even

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you straight talk, relatable stories, and

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life lessons through my own experiences.

20:00

and the lens of others. We're not

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just talking about why financial freedom is

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the Black Effect Podcast Network. I

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Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or

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there's two human beings that I've seen

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20:51

Okay. So,

20:54

can you please describe,

20:56

cause I've never seen a person

20:59

put their humor out front and

21:02

like she always had a joke or

21:04

a punchline. Like maybe Vesta is

21:06

in third place. Like I'll

21:08

say Tasha Vega, Vesta, and

21:11

Angela Bofield or like almost personalities.

21:13

What was Angela Bofield like? Openhearted,

21:17

funny, but I must tell

21:19

you perfect pitch. It's

21:22

so beautiful how she hears and how she can

21:25

hit her notes and just make

21:27

everything so musical. She's

21:30

extremely musical. I

21:32

was a fan of her stuff before I ever worked with her.

21:36

I try and those records she put out they

21:38

were with Grusin, Dave Grusin, which is beautiful.

21:41

So then when Clyde Davis asked me to work with

21:44

Angela, he first picked the song of something

21:47

about you as type of ideas. But

21:49

what if I got to know her and know

21:51

that she liked the funk, see? Then

21:54

I got excited and I came on one morning on

21:56

my profit keyboard and my drum machine, my limachines and

21:59

just made a demo. But I've only done

22:01

it with records. But I've got an

22:03

idea of too tough for her. I

22:05

knew that she liked to funk. And

22:08

that was the most cutting edge stuff I could do at that time.

22:11

I said, and it's just come in and sing on this for me. And she did. And

22:15

she got so excited. She got in a clap, not

22:17

getting a hit. But I was really

22:19

just wanting to be like raw. I do, do,

22:21

do, do, do, do, do, do, do,

22:23

do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do,

22:25

do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do,

22:27

do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, and

22:30

we also had a lot of license to be a little raunchy

22:32

in lyrics now because now Prince would be on the scene, a

22:34

lot of things would be on the scene. You could be a

22:36

little bit cutting edge on the lyric in

22:38

R&B and get away with it. So all

22:40

those things kind of came into factor. But

22:43

I love Angela. You know, she's had a little stroke

22:45

now. We're still talking and all. She's all wanting to

22:47

know what's going on. But

22:50

we made, I made three albums for Angela Bova, three albums, a

22:52

lot of music. And she taught me how

22:55

to then go into Whitney Houston. I have to say

22:57

that. I discipline with, with,

22:59

with the way Angela gave me knowing how to, if

23:01

I only have three hours with, with, with, with, with

23:03

three hours a year, three hours, two hours a year,

23:05

I knew how to cut vocals now because of Angela

23:07

Bova. So before we

23:09

get to Whitney, yeah, one,

23:11

I want to know, like,

23:14

how do you climb the mountain

23:16

that is Clive

23:18

Davis because of his

23:21

just no nonsense, no bullshit

23:24

kind of like, give me the hit,

23:26

take me to the mountain top. What

23:29

is your first meetings with Clive like? Like how

23:31

does he know that he can put his trust

23:34

in you to deliver what

23:36

is needed? I

23:38

think when he heard, let me be your angel, he

23:40

called me the telephone and

23:42

he said, you know, how

23:45

are you doing this? It's like a question

23:47

to me. Like, huh, how am I

23:50

doing this? Well,

23:52

I'm from Michigan. I'm almost

23:54

in Michigan. We love music and

23:57

we, that's what we do. That's

24:00

that's it for me He

24:04

goes well, how would you want to work with

24:06

some of my artists? like

24:08

Angela Bofill that's how started just that's

24:10

that humble and And

24:12

then after I did the trust with Angela do

24:14

those records came Vince Phyllis Hyman and

24:20

Then then not long after that It's

24:24

a deal work That's

24:27

my you know, Burt Backwax Hal David's like,

24:29

oh my god Alfie, you

24:31

know Windows of the world all

24:33

that music so that was mind-blown even

24:36

think about meeting died the award I

24:38

put my little 15 songs together went to LA to her

24:40

home and Deon was not feeling my

24:42

music So I

24:44

came back home and I called Claude. I

24:46

said Deon is not feeling my music. He

24:49

said don't worry That

24:51

was very very kind. He said don't worry. He said,

24:54

how about Aretha Franklin? I

24:56

want to read the Franklin, right?

24:59

He said just give her a phone call Okay

25:05

And I did and I called her

25:07

Ethan. I'm so glad I had my pen and paper and everything ready

25:09

I had no idea how deep she is.

25:12

Can I can I tell that story for you right now? Absolutely.

25:15

Okay, I call Aretha. He she says Hi,

25:18

and I said, well, what do you do for fun? You know,

25:20

just trying to break it down, you know You're you did you

25:22

try it we do for fun That's

25:25

what she showed me who she is. She goes hmm

25:30

You know, maybe I've not I go out to a nightclub You

25:33

know, maybe in the corner. I see a guy like I don't

25:35

you know, he looks he looks at me. I look at him It's

25:38

like who's doing me? Then

25:42

he feels he's got me with the fish up off

25:44

the hook Zoom

25:48

in who the fish up off the hook That's

25:52

how she talked that's

25:54

who she is. So that what I wasn't

25:57

ready for all that when I took that stuff Take

26:00

a breath, like my partner. We gotta write a song with this.

26:02

Who's the one who's the first of all, look. Crazy,

26:06

man. That's

26:09

how that happened. So that

26:11

was Clyde Davis. He's a typical, I

26:14

believe that you can meditate and

26:16

manifest whatever it is that you want

26:18

to achieve in life. But I

26:20

mean, to be honest with you,

26:22

when you're starting the Whitney Houston

26:24

debut album, I meant,

26:26

are you thinking that

26:29

this person's about to be the Mount Rushmore

26:32

of pout music as we know it at

26:34

that time, or were they just planning like

26:37

respectable, you know,

26:40

uh, black Kashif members. Like she's

26:42

going to go gold and platinum, maybe

26:45

double platinum. Like coming into the door,

26:47

do you know what you

26:49

guys were gunning for? Okay. I,

26:51

that's very beautiful. Thank you for the honor and the

26:53

love you give me. I can feel it when you're

26:55

talking to me. And what it does is it

26:57

makes me really think about what you're asking. So what

26:59

I want to say is this. When

27:02

I'm in the automatic, I wasn't at Tarpen studios

27:04

yet. I was still in the city at the

27:06

automatic cutting a wreath of Franklin, getting

27:08

ready for a wreath of Franklin. When the

27:11

phone call came from Jerry Griffith, the NR

27:13

of Arista Narda,

27:16

you've got to make time for Whitney Houston.

27:18

And I said, no, I'm

27:21

working on a wreath of Franklin. I cannot lose my focus.

27:24

He goes, yeah, I know, but you

27:26

don't want to miss the younger we've signed. It

27:29

was going to be big, but, and

27:31

also I got to tell you Narda, she

27:33

assisted Houston's daughter and

27:35

then I had to stop and think, since the

27:37

Houston saying background, I'm burning love. Like, take

27:40

me, take me, take me, take me to

27:42

the gun. Love night. And I'm

27:44

in the corner was 11 year old girl. That was

27:46

her daughter. I met this little girl when she was

27:48

11. Oh

27:50

yeah. I

27:53

said, well, you

27:55

know, I'm busy. He goes, we

27:57

have a hook. Song. How will I

27:59

know? Let me just send you the idea. So you sent me

28:01

the idea. I heard how old I go. I said, I will,

28:03

man. You know, cool, cool chorus. I called him back. I

28:06

said, Jerry, there's no verses. I mean,

28:09

if I'm gonna get involved, I gotta write some verses to this thing. Finish it.

28:12

It's gonna make a strong song. He goes, let me ask

28:14

the writers. He called the writers. Call

28:17

me back. Write and say fine. Now

28:20

it's on. Yeah. So instead

28:22

of doing another Aretha song that day, I

28:25

told Randy Jackson, Corrado, Preston,

28:27

Walter, Al Sinabia, Frank

28:30

Martin, Dave Frazier, my team. We're

28:33

gonna do a song called Howl I Know for Whitney Houston today. And

28:36

I just went to the piano and banged it out and put a verse.

28:39

There's a one up, that kind of spirit.

28:44

And they cut the hell out of it. And that was

28:46

the time. Now Randy's playing this Moog bass with one finger.

28:49

So we have this team, this hybrid

28:51

of like a Motown corporation sound with

28:53

the newest technology

29:04

that we needed to be competitive

29:06

with Prince and Michael Jackson,

29:08

Quincy Jones, and everybody else who's doing records. So

29:11

we put that thing down. Then

29:14

I called Whitney and his folks. I hadn't spoken to her yet. I said,

29:16

listen, I'm making the verse really high.

29:18

And you sing high. She goes, yeah, I sing

29:21

high. No, I said, no, no, no, no. I'm cutting

29:23

this in San Francisco. I'm a fly to New York to

29:25

go meet you with

29:27

a tape. If it's the wrong key,

29:29

we're off. She says,

29:31

no, no, I can sing high. I said,

29:33

all right. And then

29:35

I went to New York. And when I go to New

29:38

York, I had a media sound with Michael

29:40

Barbiero with my English bear. He

29:42

was brilliant. He knew the right mic. I liked it.

29:46

No, even beautiful mic. We're

29:48

in the studio making it good. Everything's sounding

29:50

good. So she walks in. And when

29:53

she walked in now, I'm going to talk to you straight up. She

29:57

was so beautiful. put

30:00

your eyes on her was

30:02

just like, oh my

30:04

God, no I'm not going to understand you. I don't

30:06

even know what to say. I'm just looking at her.

30:10

She just with the cheekbones, the fingers,

30:12

to 90. Okay, okay,

30:15

I'm starting to understand you now. Go

30:18

by the mic, sing the song and God bless

30:20

you. She knew that song. I've put a song

30:22

that was the only song she knew. How long

30:24

has she been ready for it? First

30:26

album. And she blew that song man.

30:29

She killed that song. I put you here on that record.

30:32

All that power and spitting and also control

30:35

of the head voice to

30:38

the chest voice. The chest voice back to the

30:40

head voice. It was all effortless. I

30:43

said, well, you know what? We did about four or

30:45

five takes this and you're so tight on it. I wanted

30:47

to keep beating this horse. What we're going to do now is

30:50

do a few doublings, a few harmonies and

30:52

you want to come listen to it. She doubled. I want

30:54

her to double. She heard as I want her as they

30:56

come listen to it on the playback in the control room.

30:59

If you're me and I'm her,

31:03

she's looking at me like this. She's

31:06

looking like that. I've

31:09

never had anyone stare at me like that. The

31:12

howling of blaring over the speakers, killing

31:14

it. And she's looking at me like, do

31:17

you hear that? Do

31:19

you hear that? Now

31:23

it's like a Muhammad Ali moment. Like, you know, I'm

31:25

the greatest, but I'll say that just like, no,

31:28

I'm realizing, damn, this is incredible.

31:34

And bless us, man. That's what I want to tell you. That's going to hit

31:36

me that, yeah, I know we're on to something that's going to be like huge.

31:39

I have one question.

31:41

Okay. You do something

31:43

on that song. I've never heard in

31:45

the history of pop music. I've

31:49

never heard somebody like, cause

31:52

the thing is you're building up drama, like go

31:54

to the, if he loves me, if he loves

31:56

me, not thing, right? That, that is

31:58

a ramp. You're building. up to something and

32:01

when you build up to it, you modulate

32:04

to a lower key. I've never

32:06

heard that in the history

32:08

of pop music. What was

32:11

the thought behind? Because

32:13

again, modulation is supposed to be the dramatic

32:15

moment where you retire and but

32:18

yet... Like, almost like it... I

32:21

need to get down, get down to D. Yeah.

32:26

How did you know that would come off? To

32:29

be honest with you, before I even

32:31

met Whitney, I work out the song

32:33

in the studio and maybe I even get like

32:35

one of my singers, my girl singers come and just lay

32:37

out the idea. So I know it all works before I

32:40

even go anywhere. I have a few

32:42

different demo, demo singers, but Kitty Bay Hopin at that

32:44

time was one of my go-tos to work

32:46

out my ideas that it was all going to be like strong.

32:50

That's when I always do put make a blueprint so

32:53

that when I get with a singer, if something doesn't work out, well,

32:55

no, I know this work, please do this. So

32:58

that's how I worked it out. No one will be

33:00

great because it sounded great and put

33:02

the background on it. The idea is everything

33:05

worked out so that when I see Whitney, it's

33:07

powerful. But then after I did it with her

33:09

and it was so incredible, I said, can you

33:11

get your mom to come down and join on

33:13

the background? And she did. In comes to see

33:15

Houston with her troop and the nurse singing

33:17

it. But then I said, no, you

33:19

go join your mother. Now that was the

33:21

sound of all. Again, she's not known to

33:23

lead, but she's also part of the background

33:26

with her mom. That's

33:28

power. So all that

33:30

power you don't, you don't know what's what the money is

33:32

going up or down. It's just power. Unfortunately,

33:36

I hate the way that

33:39

transitioning that

33:42

makes me appreciate or listen

33:45

to someone's music. Like

33:47

when a person transitions and

33:49

I go back to their catalog and I hear

33:51

something, it's

33:53

like another chamber opens. So

33:56

before I ask you, because the thing is, is that

33:58

I feel like right now and you

34:01

know I'm a DJ that that

34:04

is very active and still spinning records

34:07

and I feel as though

34:09

I want to dance with somebody is

34:12

going through its September phase matter

34:17

of fact like what I call the

34:19

smells like Teen Spirit Effect that's

34:21

what I want to dance with somebody because of

34:24

course it's like okay we're celebrating her and whatnot

34:27

but please tell me what

34:29

the air was like and

34:31

the tension of working

34:34

on the second album where

34:37

you guys now have to first

34:40

of all are you ever thinking of

34:42

like okay I

34:44

gotta live up to it like you know

34:47

when you're working on Rock-a-Lot or whatever for like

34:49

a Reap's Next Record so whatever like I gotta

34:51

I gotta top freeway of love I gotta what's

34:53

your creative process in terms of like

34:56

following up like what was

34:58

the difference between it there

35:00

are a few things I want to say Clive Davis

35:03

decided early on after the success and

35:05

fastest rising hit of the how

35:08

I know being the number one of the

35:10

third album the third number one off that

35:12

record going so big then he called me

35:14

to meet him at the bungalow his

35:17

bungalow in Beverly Hills mm-hmm

35:19

it wasn't long after how I know then he says

35:21

come meet me so I go to meet him he

35:24

plays for me I'll announce somebody

35:26

loves me as a demo the

35:28

same people who worked on how I know but the demos kind

35:30

of like very poppy like

35:33

a rodeo type record but it's cool

35:35

you can hear the hook

35:37

him there but the track is

35:40

just so popular I'm going hmm

35:42

immediately I'm thinking how am I gonna make this a

35:44

ghetto record you know really make it badass

35:47

for the black people on the

35:49

north side of Kalamazoo and around the world that's

35:51

my mind immediately goes then he

35:53

played me a few more songs he

35:55

wanted for where to broken hearts go

35:57

and maybe one or two more and

35:59

I played him on a classic glasses songs that he

36:01

had first written. So you're saying

36:03

he's planning this even as the first album has

36:05

yet to really... Yeah, first album still...

36:10

But now he's decided because Whitney and I worked

36:12

so fast on How I Know, we turned

36:15

in so fast that he wants a fast

36:17

second album to kind of be able to pick

36:20

up on this success. So

36:22

I get it. And he plays me these

36:24

ideas and then I come back to the same room when I'm

36:26

sitting with you right now, which I want you to come make

36:28

your record, Tar Band Studios. Same

36:31

studio. Yeah, this is it. Wow,

36:33

okay. And I

36:36

get Randy Jackson, who I adore. I'm

36:38

at One Fingers, Synth make

36:54

these ideas that Carl Clav has given me

36:57

and just put my thing on it. Our

36:59

thing on it, which means Quincy

37:02

Jones taught me an

37:05

outhouse bottom with a penthouse

37:07

view. And

37:10

I put the vocals down, the lead

37:12

vocals and the backing vocals. So it sounds

37:14

like a finished record on

37:16

five songs. And one of those songs would be

37:19

the Isley Brothers song, I'm Gonna Love You because Whitney wanted to do that.

37:21

So before Whitney ever comes in the room, it's

37:24

all ready for her. And

37:26

we are efficient because don't forget, I better sample

37:28

grew. I'm like an army. I'm like an army.

37:32

There's no drinking, there's

37:34

no smoking, there's no drugs, it's just vegetarian life.

37:37

Just like an army. Like your Fallon show,

37:39

you're on it, on it, on it, on it, on it, on it, on it. That's

37:42

how it was in this room. So when she

37:44

came here, I played for her. I

37:47

went and somebody loves me. She was like, wow.

37:51

I never heard it like that. And

37:53

then I played for the song, I know she didn't even like, where'd

37:56

my hearts go? And I played with that as another couple

37:58

you know. And

38:00

now I'm starting to get it, because now it's for her.

38:03

It's got the right bass, it's got the

38:05

black on it, it's got the cool. So

38:08

what I'm saying to you is, I have

38:10

to all see this now. The first song that she

38:12

sang in this room was a

38:14

song by the Isis, For the Love of You. What

38:16

was so great about doing that song first, because she said, I know that

38:19

song, I have not even learned the other songs yet, but I know that

38:21

For the Love of You. So why don't I sing

38:23

that? So she sang that. I said, there

38:25

are backing vocals on For the Love of You, stacked

38:27

your voice, so we

38:29

started stacking her voice 20, 40

38:32

times, so all the harmonies are her voice. And she

38:34

came back in the studio to hear, now she's

38:37

hearing like angels, her voice.

38:41

And I see the look on her face, and she's getting inspired

38:43

by the sound of her voice, stacked

38:46

that many times. And I

38:48

said, tomorrow we're going to do, I want to dance

38:50

with you, love me. She

38:52

said, okay. She's high now. She's

38:54

excited by the sound of her voice.

38:58

The next day she came in, and we

39:01

ran through, I had a spoon feeding, because she

39:03

didn't know it. Do the verse, do

39:05

the verse. You know, do a

39:07

chorus, do a chorus, do an out chorus. Probably going

39:09

to put the whole thing together. Now go to the

39:11

outro and just go crazy for me. And

39:14

she stumbled upon, say you want to dance, don't you want

39:16

to dance, don't you want to dance? Say

39:18

you want to dance, don't you want to dance, say you want to

39:20

dance? Oh, don't you want to dance, say you

39:22

want to dance? Oh, yeah. Damn.

39:25

Oh, with somebody ruling. That came out of her. I

39:27

was like, damn, I'm changing everything to go with that

39:30

now. That's going to be the

39:32

highlight at the very end to go to. Right.

39:36

That came out of her. So I'm saying God

39:39

came through. But I will say,

39:42

we knew we wanted to make records that would last

39:44

forever. We pray about it. She loved Jesus. We pray

39:46

about it. You know, dear Lord

39:48

Jesus, Savior and all that. You

39:52

know, let me do my best work. Very

39:54

devoted. and

40:00

Rolling Stones hugely popular, influential,

40:02

and sometimes controversial list. I'm

40:05

Brittany Spanos. And I'm Rob

40:07

Sheffield. We're here to shed light on the

40:09

greatest songs ever made and discover what makes

40:11

them so great. Every week, we'll pick a

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new song from the list and talk about

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their placement on the revamped 2021 list. We'll

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voted on them. Modern classics like Fleetwood

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Baby, and modern day classics like The

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40:34

One More Time. There's so many

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fascinating stories that have been forgotten, like

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Midnight Train to Georgia starting with the

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the Ye Ye Yez inspired Kelly Clarkson's

40:45

Banger Since You've Been Gone and Beyonce's

40:47

Hold Up. Listen to Rolling

40:49

Stones' 500 Greatest Songs on the

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Bryant every Thursday on the Black Effect

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Podcast Network. Hi,

42:01

I'm Martha Stewart, and we're back with a

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new season of my podcast. This

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season will be even more revealing and

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entrepreneurs, more trailblazers, more

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live events, more Martha,

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and more questions from you. I'm

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talking to my cosmetic dermatologist, Dr.

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Dan Belkin, about the secrets

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behind my skincare. Walter

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Isaacson, about the geniuses who

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changed the world. Encore

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Jane, about creating a billion

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dollar startup. Dr. Eliza

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Pressman, about the five basic strategies

42:37

to help parents raise good

42:40

humans. Florence Fabrikant,

42:42

about the authenticity in the world

42:44

of food writing. Be

42:46

sure to tune in to season two

42:48

of the Martha Stewart podcast. President

42:51

and subscribe to the Martha Stewart

42:53

podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple

42:55

Podcasts, or wherever you get your

42:58

podcasts. Whether

43:03

people want to credit you or not, you

43:06

are probably the most

43:09

bullseye standard of

43:13

what we know as the 80s pop sounds.

43:15

I know that Prince was

43:17

an architect. I know that Michael

43:19

was a god and all that stuff. But

43:21

who does the person who's the standard? You're

43:25

doing starships. I

43:28

can only imagine what your life is like

43:30

once you have the success with

43:32

Whitney. But first

43:35

of all, it's like who

43:37

was your

43:40

guide to even...because I feel like every creator

43:42

needs something to sponge off of to

43:45

be like, all right, this is what I'm going

43:47

to create. But what did the effect of the

43:49

Whitney albums have on you in

43:51

terms of demand? I

43:54

need you to do my record. I need you

43:56

to do my record. You got to...because I'm certain

43:58

now if people are hiring you... They're

44:00

expecting you to contribute

44:02

the song that's going

44:04

to also bring them to 12 billion

44:07

units and 60 million units. Like, is

44:09

filler even a thing to you? Like,

44:12

are you even allowed the freedom to just write

44:14

a song that's not going to be here, but

44:16

this is a really clever song and da-da-da-da. Like,

44:19

what is your life? I'd be allowed to write it. I'd be

44:21

allowed to write it. But I was

44:23

always knowing this is K.B.A.

44:25

Lex's quite storm format song.

44:29

This is top 10 format

44:32

song. This is R&B top 10

44:35

song. I

44:37

could differentiate because don't forget at that time, we

44:40

don't talk about it, but I'll talk to you now. Any

44:43

artist that came through our door, black

44:45

artist, we had always think how we're

44:47

going to break them first on black

44:49

radio, R&B radio. We

44:52

could just think pop. You'd think, yeah, you

44:54

want to get the pop, but you

44:56

have to first go through your R&B door. So

44:59

we knew those worlds. R&B,

45:02

pop, of course, country,

45:04

you know, jazz, and then

45:06

quiet storm. We had a hybrid easy-going

45:08

music, which now becomes smooth jazz, whatever

45:10

that is. So

45:13

we knew the different categories. You had

45:15

to know that as a producer because if

45:17

you didn't, you couldn't make it as a producer. You had to be making

45:19

no – no, this is going to be – this

45:21

is going to give us the R&B radio, and then we have enough of

45:23

a hook to go to pop radio and do well. Even

45:26

the thinking McLeod Davis and

45:29

Arista putting out, you

45:32

give good love first

45:34

was to appreciate mom and pops

45:37

and black radio and our

45:39

black community that she's ours before

45:42

they came with us saving all my love for you and how

45:44

I know that's for the world. That

45:47

was a very thought-out decision.

45:50

You see what I'm saying? That's how it was at that

45:52

time. Everything had to be a certain way. It was

45:54

a black artist. Now, pop artists are human starship. I'm

45:56

not worried about that because they're already this gray

45:59

slick we love. Mickey Thomas,

46:01

killer singer. It's a band that we all

46:03

know. They already had, we built this city

46:05

and Sarah. They had damn hits, you

46:07

know? Me. So

46:11

I got my electronic drums. Shout out, I got, I got, I got, I

46:13

got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got,

46:15

ooh, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo. With that

46:18

funk drive on it, on a Diane Warren song. That

46:21

became her first number one. And it was

46:23

so strong, I knocked myself out of number one. George

46:25

Michael, we the Franklin, you with me, knocked myself out of

46:28

number one. It was at

46:30

that time, because the drums, the sound,

46:32

I knew was the power. You have

46:34

to have it. And we changed the

46:36

sound to be like mighty. And don't

46:38

forget what our competition was. Your friend,

46:40

Prince, he had the hell of a

46:42

drums. He knew it. And

46:44

not only did he know it, he put you,

46:47

he put, what up your butt about it? Those

46:49

drum techs he put down, look at purple rain. The

46:54

sound is almighty.

46:57

He was a mean scientist. And

47:00

everyone, if you want to be competitive, you

47:02

better be able to get down with it. With these

47:04

new machines, or you're out. Could

47:07

you also tell me about

47:10

Aretha Whitney's, it isn't, it wasn't, it

47:12

ever going to be. Like,

47:14

do they do them together, or what

47:17

was those sessions like? Well,

47:19

there's two different records you're talking about now.

47:21

Right. You asked first about the

47:23

George Michael record. I'm excited, sorry. Okay, I am

47:26

too. I am too, man. I

47:29

am too. Okay, so dig. I

47:31

knew he went for me as a Clive Davis pick. Clive

47:33

said I met with George Michael.

47:36

He wants to do a song with Aretha. He loves

47:38

Aretha. I said, okay. And he

47:40

said, I found this song. I'm

47:42

gonna send it to you. And Clive sent me the song. And

47:45

powerful song I knew it from me. But

47:48

again, it's the magic of my team to

47:50

bring those chimes with the crot on the synth guitar.

47:53

On the very beginning against the drums. You

47:57

have to understand, at that time, you had to have

47:59

this new sound. Before anybody

48:01

opened their mouths, just the sound of the record had to be

48:03

like a hit. Kind of

48:05

like Motown, brrra, with a hit. No,

48:08

you want it. Brrra, with a hit. You

48:10

see what I mean? So in

48:12

the electronic world, we have to put

48:14

that thing down to sound good in this room and

48:16

then lay it all out with the vocals,

48:19

back end vocals, all sounding finished. And

48:21

then when I went to Detroit, I had

48:24

three days and it was

48:26

on tape. We only have 10

48:28

tracks apiece for Aretha and for George. Aretha

48:30

comes in the first day, lays out her verses and

48:34

choruses and then not blowing on the end.

48:37

I want to save that for a live thing with George. The

48:39

next day comes in George. Aretha's not there. George

48:42

is very nervous. He's

48:45

very nervous. And he's a

48:47

control freak. He's only produced himself.

48:50

He only had one guy produce him from

48:52

that, do they know it's Christmas time.

48:54

Besides that, he's done his own masterpieces.

48:59

So we have 10 tracks for George. I want to save this because

49:01

this is important for my life. George

49:03

goes on the mic and he sings the

49:05

song and he

49:07

goes almost through damn

49:09

10 of those tracks.

49:13

He goes through those damn 10 tracks. And

49:15

I happen to know the first four tracks are

49:18

my record because he was so strong and

49:20

he's gone through the sixth and seventh and eighth tracks

49:22

is diminishing a little bit. He says to

49:24

me, go back over those first

49:27

tracks. I want to do more

49:29

vocals. And that's when

49:31

I became a producer. And I said, no, we're not doing

49:33

that. These

49:35

four tracks are my record.

49:38

That's my record. You think you're getting better,

49:40

but in fact, you're diminishing. How do

49:42

you get a mind trick and artists to get out

49:44

of their head? You have

49:46

to say, just trust me. That's all you got to do because you say, go

49:49

home. Let me comp this.

49:52

When you come back tomorrow, I'll have a fun play. I save all

49:54

night. Go home. I'm gonna

49:56

put it together. And when you hear

49:58

tomorrow, you come in fresh. your

50:00

backing vote, you're coming fresh to your ad-libs with the

50:02

Queen. Get your rest, because that's going to be the

50:04

challenge. And if anything bothers you tomorrow, then we can

50:06

do that. After I've had a chance to come see

50:08

what I know is my hit record. Then

50:11

he said, okay. But he looked

50:13

at me like, who are you talking about this? He looked at me like,

50:16

you know, who you think you are. I'm like,

50:18

I don't know, George, you think you're getting

50:20

better. But in fact, these first tracks were

50:22

mighty. So then

50:25

he just, he gave in. He

50:27

gave in. The next day, that was genius, because

50:29

now he's meeting the Queen. And the

50:32

Queen's happy to be meeting him, because he's a big star. And

50:34

then what it is, we have two mics. I

50:37

have enough to do four rounds of ad-libs

50:39

on the ending with two tracks apiece. And

50:43

Aretha goes easy on those first tracks. She's,

50:45

you know, just filling them out. Like a

50:47

prize fighter. She's a fucking prize

50:49

fighter. On

50:52

the third and fourth go-rounds, she

50:55

let him have it, man. And that's on that record. Would

50:57

you hear it? And

50:59

he's stunned. Because

51:01

he could have, wow. No

51:04

one can. So what

51:06

I'm saying to you is, I'm very proud of that

51:08

record. Not only because it's number one, but because

51:11

the friendship that George and I made of him

51:13

trusting me. And me

51:15

having to be strong to say, no, stop

51:17

it. So like that, I have to

51:19

tell you. You do the same process with Whitney

51:21

and Aretha. Like, do you prefer them to sing a part? That

51:25

song, they were together. Cut the tracks

51:27

here. Go to Detroit United Sound.

51:30

My engineer Dave Frager is flying over together. United

51:32

Sound. In the same studio where George couldn't be

51:34

hanging out. I know. We

51:36

want to fuck all that stuff in the same

51:38

rooms. Q-Tip has that board now. Who

51:40

does? Q-Tip has the API

51:43

board, yes. Okay. API

51:45

board. So what

51:47

was that session? Again,

51:51

like you have two women at the top of their game. Two

51:53

gods at the top of their game. How

51:56

are you refereeing how the song's going

51:58

to go? With

52:00

that you're allowed to tell me and I

52:02

can tell by the look on your face you

52:04

gotta hold some stuff back. They're

52:08

both in heaven. They're both looking down upon us right

52:10

now in their hands. And they

52:13

give me love because

52:15

it was love. But this is what

52:17

I gotta share with you which you know. Aretha

52:19

Franklin, I mentioned to you a prize

52:21

winner, is true. Whitney Houston is

52:23

one of the greatest of all time. But

52:26

Aretha, Whitney with Aretha, Aretha was a

52:29

little girl when her mother sang back

52:31

up on those hits with Aretha. Aretha's

52:33

a little girl. Whitney's a little girl

52:35

around those sessions. So Aretha to Whitney

52:38

is like, Auntie Riri. Like Lance, Auntie

52:40

Riri. So sweet like that. So here

52:42

I'm gonna go with. I'm

52:44

sitting at the board. Whitney's sitting on

52:46

the floor. We get there early. She's on the floor time.

52:48

You can't read her series. She's just frosting

52:50

on the floor. And when Aretha comes

52:53

to the door on her fur coat and

52:55

her prize fighter mode. Like

52:57

when Inero goes into his modes to make

53:00

his movies, already in character. She's

53:02

in character to take this man or

53:04

keep her man. So

53:06

she looks at me and she goes, where is she? Like

53:08

kind of harsh like that. Where is she? Where

53:11

is she? Now you're throwing me

53:13

off. Where is she? Oh, you

53:15

mean Whitney. She's right here on the

53:17

floor. And

53:20

then she peers down and look at Whitney. You know. Oh,

53:24

so you're Miss Houston. And

53:26

Whitney's like, Auntie Riri.

53:29

The cast was spelt right there. The

53:32

song would be like, how are you

53:34

gonna take my man? How are you gonna even sing about taking my man?

53:37

She put that thing on her right from

53:39

the very beginning. And from

53:41

the very beginning, we did

53:43

the song. Whitney

53:46

is so effortless

53:49

at that time with her vocals. She did

53:51

the most killer if I ever heard her do. And

53:55

then she left because she could feel that wasn't

53:57

a good vibe. And

54:00

Rita stayed. Rita said, go to that part of the

54:02

table. She said she did that, that, that gravel thing.

54:05

She didn't punch me in right after. Okay.

54:09

And we did. And she punched me in

54:11

the air again to make sure I do what I want to do. Because

54:14

she wanted to make sure she was bringing her fire,

54:16

as strong as what Whitney had done, just effortlessly. And

54:19

we did. And then when she got what she

54:21

wanted, which was killer, she left. But then she

54:23

called me up on the phone and said, do

54:25

you think I was too harsh today? I

54:28

said, well, you might want to give her a phone call.

54:30

She said, yes, I will. She said,

54:33

I was in character for the song. I said, I know you were. But

54:35

damn, when you're in character, I mean, you're like,

54:39

you're like life to death, man. But that's the

54:41

thing. I always see a duet

54:43

as like a collaboration.

54:45

I never, like, I'm

54:47

not thinking that like Michael Jackson, Paul McCartney

54:49

about to start brawling. You

54:52

know, like I'm an outsinger. You're outsinging me.

54:54

I think as the average listener, I wouldn't

54:58

listen from the standpoint of like, who's

55:00

going to win this battle? I'm thinking

55:02

of like, how are they going to create

55:05

magic together? It's so weird that how

55:07

artists get in their heads. Well, wait, I might as

55:09

well throw one more thing in. If I remember correctly,

55:11

I believe on that record,

55:14

the opening song is James

55:16

Brown and Aretha Franklin. How

55:19

was that session? Because I've talked

55:22

to full force before about

55:25

working with James Brown and

55:27

there's a lot of punch ins and whatnot. Like

55:31

James is my hero. You're a drummer.

55:33

So you know, the power of cold

55:35

sweat, the power of cold

55:37

sweat, what they put down was just like so far ahead.

55:41

If you want to be respected as any kind of drummer, you have to be able

55:43

to play cold sweat. And

55:45

so here I am in this room with

55:47

James Brown. You call him Mr. Brown. You'll

55:49

call him James Mr. Brown. Mr. Brown, right.

55:52

And we had, he said, I want cue cards.

55:56

And first of all, he thought, where is she? He wanted to see Aretha.

55:58

She's not here. You're

56:00

coming in to sing your parts and I'm gonna go

56:02

to try and put her parts up." So he was

56:04

sad because he really had a romantic thing in his

56:06

mind about Aretha. Right. It would

56:08

be great if the king and the queen came together and

56:10

he was all there, you know. So

56:13

we made these big cue cards. So here I'm holding the

56:15

cue cards, you know, I'm kind of falling away as you're

56:17

singing the song. The song

56:19

cue cards. But that's how he recorded. And

56:22

he's a killer, just doing his grunts

56:24

and stuff and reading the cue card and kind

56:26

of being spontaneous. It was a killer session. I

56:28

loved him. I loved you. And

56:31

also, we had a, I knew he liked to play organ. So I had my

56:33

organ in here. You go and fill it with your organ and play that. You

56:36

let it play organ? Yeah, I will. Yeah, no,

56:38

I will because I know I make him happy.

56:40

See? I made you say, you's the only

56:42

one keeping the funk alive. Damn,

56:44

Mr. Brown. Thank you for saying that. You's the only

56:46

one keeping the funk alive. Damn, okay.

56:49

So then I went back and put a rethon and retha killed it too.

56:51

He just wasn't meant to be. And Prince, your bro, did

56:54

a remix on that record. Did you know that?

56:57

That's right. Okay, I heard

57:00

an outtake of it. You are correct.

57:02

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I

57:04

apologize for hogging this entire interview. Do

57:06

you have any questions? I wanted to

57:08

ask about the Temptations

57:10

stay. I just thought

57:13

that was just a brilliant move of sampling

57:15

my girl to make a new song. So

57:18

tell me about how that record came together and what that session was

57:20

like, man. I love the Temptations. Temptations,

57:23

four tops, all that movement on the

57:25

Motown list is just staggering. We're

57:28

still learning from that catalog. We're still learning from multiple. We're

57:31

still learning. We're still trying to be

57:33

half as good as what they did. We're just... So,

57:35

we're Temptations is a big deal. And then Otis

57:38

Williams is the only living member when I wrote

57:40

with him. And I

57:43

loved his wisdom. So it brought some

57:45

out of me after I met with him to

57:47

record some songs. It brought this out of me

57:49

to kind of go, what can I do that

57:51

would just really be something different? And

57:54

I just... God said, you sample

57:57

the beginning of my girl. Boom

58:01

Boom Boom boom boom Boom You know a

58:04

put a new so on top carnival was

58:06

coming out New York again you have a

58:08

lot a cast taken other records. Airplane

58:10

different songs aren't up. Guess.

58:13

That wasn't news a brand new think

58:15

was a brandy thing to do for

58:17

temptation. Evidence a decent about yeah I

58:19

mean so that would it be to

58:21

the moon and say either about being

58:23

slow like a one about you to

58:25

do to do you aren't have a

58:27

micro. Side. Of you put your

58:29

arms and have the salt because he but

58:31

my pero No pride Every a motel and.

58:34

It. Became here for them. They got a platinum Aca

58:36

Bella. homes you there that problem that ago but

58:38

a Grammy? All is that. So many very happy.

58:40

But. That's what I was is really one Abby. It. And

58:43

a lot. Of I take

58:45

something all that and what wedding? Something old, something new?

58:48

That. Might be the thing him and I was. Welcome.

58:52

To Five has a great a

58:54

size a pot cafes and Rolling

58:57

Stones hugely popular, influential Us and

58:59

sometimes controversial less I'm Britney. Staff:

59:01

Nimrod Sheffield We're here to shed light

59:03

on the greatest songs ever made and

59:05

discover what makes them so great. Every

59:07

week will pick a nice on from

59:09

the list and toss. About their placement on

59:11

a revamped. Twenty Twenty One Less also

59:14

have guests join us, ranging from

59:16

the artists themselves to the producers

59:18

for simply other writers like ourselves.

59:20

He voted on them some. Classics

59:22

like Fleetwood Mac stream Sit Around As

59:24

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Spears. and. Baby. One more time to

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somebody. Fascinating stories that have been forgotten

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like been nitrate As you're just starting

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Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

59:52

I. Am Yahoo, Bryce host of Money

59:55

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In the world of food rented. Be

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unlike Whitney Houston, which again,

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road to follow, when

1:02:20

Tommy and Donnie are bringing you Mariah

1:02:22

Carey, are they

1:02:24

putting the invisible pressure on you to

1:02:28

put some numbers on the board, just like you did

1:02:30

for your other star student? Yeah,

1:02:32

no. We're not talking numbers. We're not talking pressure.

1:02:35

It's just, the first phone call came from Tommy,

1:02:37

not Donnie. Donnie I knew from working with Clive.

1:02:39

Now he's over at Sony, but I didn't really

1:02:41

have a relationship with him at Sony yet. So

1:02:44

it was really, Tommy called me. He

1:02:46

says, I found this girl and I

1:02:48

want to send you a picture and

1:02:50

a song on

1:02:53

her. And then, you know, if

1:02:55

you like her, let me know. But

1:02:57

don't mac my babe. Okay.

1:02:59

All right. I'm married. And

1:03:07

the male comes a little tiny slide

1:03:09

of her that big and

1:03:12

a cassette. So I listened to the cassette. I

1:03:14

said, oh yeah, she sings really nice. You know, so

1:03:16

let her know, you know, she's whatever I'm hearing is cool.

1:03:19

Would you fly to New York? I said, yes, I will.

1:03:22

Because don't forget, but Tola was a present for Sony. Now,

1:03:25

big lady. I knew if he

1:03:27

had his attention on something, it could be like something really

1:03:30

want to like take serious. So here I go to New York, go

1:03:32

meet her. And in all

1:03:34

respect, Mariah, when I first met

1:03:36

her was extremely shy, not the Mariah see

1:03:39

now, where she's upfront and talking and,

1:03:41

you know, and like, that is the right. She

1:03:43

would have been here on one side of her face and

1:03:46

talk to you with hair on one side

1:03:48

of the face. Very quiet.

1:03:51

And I was saying, well, like,

1:03:53

what do you, what artists do

1:03:55

you like? You know, all I like George

1:03:57

Mike. just

1:04:00

work with George Michael, you know? Just do that, and

1:04:02

you're waiting for me. So I said, you

1:04:04

know what, why don't we go, if I can hear

1:04:06

you sing on the mic, let's just go to some studio and

1:04:08

just not sit on and talk, let's go and do some music.

1:04:11

So we did. We went over to Stony's studio, did

1:04:13

a mic for her, a mic for me, and my friend wrote

1:04:15

his piano, and we

1:04:17

wrote four songs. And I was surprised how fast

1:04:19

she writes, and then I was surprised how good she sings.

1:04:21

But I was even more surprised that she could do like

1:04:23

a young Michael Jackson. Well, Michael,

1:04:27

that's not easy to be like, to imitate a

1:04:29

young Michael Jackson. She could

1:04:32

do that. Then it hit me,

1:04:34

who I was messing with. That wasn't

1:04:36

just some other whatever. How

1:04:39

did you discover the whistle? Because you

1:04:41

unleashed the whistle to the world. Well,

1:04:44

in honesty, vision of love,

1:04:46

when she goes into that big whistle, she cut

1:04:48

that vocal on her own with her other cat.

1:04:50

I didn't cut that whistle. They

1:04:53

had already cut that jam. When I got

1:04:55

with her, I did a jam called, I

1:04:57

Don't Wanna Cry. I Don't Wanna Cry. My bad, my bad.

1:04:59

Okay, okay. And then we

1:05:01

got into all that on that record, knowing, wow,

1:05:05

she could do it. So then we really just perfected it and just

1:05:07

got what she wanted. And

1:05:09

then I started realizing what a perfection she is. She even

1:05:11

had me send that tape back in New York because she

1:05:13

wanted to fix one, one, one riff. When

1:05:16

we sent tape across the country, one

1:05:18

riff, it was already genius. It was,

1:05:21

but we did. That's how I realized what her

1:05:23

standard was at that time. She wasn't gonna be so shy. She's

1:05:26

now being like, send me the tape. So

1:05:29

we did. We got it back and it wasn't that

1:05:31

much different, but she was a damn

1:05:33

killer. And then from there, Tommy says, what

1:05:35

you're doing on these songs, I want Vision of Love

1:05:38

to sound like in the album. So then they sent

1:05:40

us Vision and then we just, we went in and

1:05:42

made Vision of Love sound more, the

1:05:44

track and with her voice and everything like, we're doing

1:05:46

it on the other music. That's what we did. And

1:05:49

then she exploded, man. She just exploded. So

1:05:52

is that part exhausting because LA and

1:05:56

Face said the same thing, Jam and Louis said the

1:05:58

same thing, which is basically, Before

1:06:00

you even work with an artist you have to go

1:06:02

and get to know them and spend time with them

1:06:05

is there a situation in which it was a

1:06:07

struggle to Get

1:06:10

the artist to be vulnerable to trust you to

1:06:12

okay You know

1:06:14

what I do you know of course I got you you know

1:06:16

I do quest I push past it I

1:06:18

ignore it try this try that

1:06:20

that is so fast. They're off

1:06:22

balance Night before

1:06:24

you know it Things are

1:06:27

just magically happening What was the

1:06:29

hardest song you have to cut like

1:06:31

go back recall it recall it recall a

1:06:33

lover for life Why was I happy with

1:06:35

lover for life for Whitney and

1:06:37

not because we cut a great But he

1:06:40

had a demo of it and the demo had a bass drum

1:06:42

pattern on five it wasn't for changing

1:06:44

I thought that wasn't gonna be the way

1:06:46

because you wouldn't land on one So

1:06:49

yeah, I cut it my way. I cut it in the

1:06:51

Baker way I cut it a few different ways you know,

1:06:54

but he couldn't get happy. I said well What is it with

1:06:56

this thing you know it was the demo?

1:06:58

I love the devil with the demo you just you know The

1:07:01

bass drum is moving and it's not landing

1:07:03

on down which which we expect as listeners

1:07:05

in the way He goes well,

1:07:07

maybe that's what I like about that demo that it's kind

1:07:09

of floaty. I go well Then

1:07:12

let me do that if that's what it is and then

1:07:14

he was happy He wanted the

1:07:16

bass to move around So he

1:07:18

had no idea that yeah, then we

1:07:20

got happy so you got the hardest song What's

1:07:22

the hardest song it was just discovering when

1:07:25

people like a demo and they

1:07:27

like something that I work about a demo and You

1:07:31

got to realize what is he like about that thing, you know?

1:07:35

Wow One of

1:07:37

the most heartbreaking things I think when

1:07:39

she passed away. I believe

1:07:42

I heard you

1:07:44

say That

1:07:47

you guys were considering cutting Brainstorms

1:07:49

lovin's really my game Yes,

1:07:52

she was crazy about that record. I didn't really know

1:07:54

that record that much she was And

1:08:00

I said, oh, I've heard it. She goes, no, no, no. I

1:08:03

love that record. Would you

1:08:05

cut it for me? Said, sure I will,

1:08:07

honey. I'll do anything you want me to do.

1:08:10

And I cut it. And I cut it. And

1:08:12

it was mean. It's in my vaults right

1:08:14

now. She cut the

1:08:16

vocals? No. I

1:08:18

called the estate. I called down the Atlanta. She's

1:08:22

just not feeling well about singing right now. Now

1:08:25

she's going off to do a tour. Now she's doing, it

1:08:27

would always be like something going on. I

1:08:30

bring her what she's asking for. Well,

1:08:32

she just can't do it. So we never could get her to

1:08:35

sing it. And then I saw

1:08:37

her the last time after I cut

1:08:39

it, one of those quiet things the

1:08:41

year before she passed. Right. You know,

1:08:44

and she came and jumped on me. We just hugged

1:08:46

and kissed. And Mary Jackson was witnessing it. I was

1:08:48

like, oh my god. And

1:08:50

we just loved each other. And I said, I got

1:08:52

it. I cut what you want me to cut. Oh,

1:08:55

I want to sing it. Yeah, no, let's

1:08:58

do it. It

1:09:00

wasn't to be. Yeah, man, like Belita

1:09:02

Woods of Brainstorm was like one of

1:09:04

the most unsung

1:09:07

champions of soul singing. When

1:09:09

people think of Brainstorm, they think of this must

1:09:11

be heaven for Quiet

1:09:13

Storm. But like, Lebanon is really my game was like,

1:09:16

that was a fit. I remember that when I was

1:09:18

a kid. But

1:09:20

I have to say one more thing. It was Whitney

1:09:22

also suggested I cut Every

1:09:24

Woman, for Bodyguard. That wasn't quite, that was Whitney.

1:09:27

So she had a really good idea

1:09:29

of what she wanted to get

1:09:31

into, like that record you love of Brainstorm. So there you

1:09:33

go. Ah. All right, I must ask,

1:09:35

because I'm not going to have an opportunity to ever again.

1:09:38

What was it like working with Eddie Murphy?

1:09:41

Because you did push your mouth on me.

1:09:44

Love Eddie. Eddie came here, man.

1:09:47

First of all. You remember that, Bronte? Yeah.

1:09:49

I remember that. He did it. Yeah, I remember.

1:09:51

Oh, it's not. You're in the video. Yeah.

1:09:55

I'm a massive Eddie fan. And

1:09:58

Rick James at the Southview. The oh no they

1:10:00

didn't borrow that it was or him. Whereas

1:10:03

and you know they have massive successful Etti

1:10:05

was like swing him. It. Wasn't like some

1:10:07

joke anymore. Was like. Your.

1:10:09

Resume Recording Artist: Man. Suffered.

1:10:12

Were would you wanna? Fight. About what goes

1:10:14

on You wanna do? As gimme some spreading

1:10:16

would you want to talk about. And.

1:10:18

He said. What's your mouth on? me?

1:10:21

That. That only okay but

1:10:23

you know only I photos

1:10:25

version of kiss or something

1:10:27

like that I that vibe

1:10:30

as a dirt road just

1:10:32

live lives and we did

1:10:34

it. In. All and I loved him

1:10:36

And he added that. To. Again,

1:10:38

get him as he always gave was the

1:10:41

new Michael everybody eldest brother feel he's just

1:10:43

a just a cat man in Woodbury Quantum

1:10:45

is not working. That. I discover. If

1:10:48

I like Richard Pryor district meetings are very

1:10:50

quiet. What about due to do? And

1:10:52

they live in a huge get as good

1:10:54

if you know isn't They said I was

1:10:57

as Mccoys in our as on the ask

1:10:59

about a song on it was on the

1:11:01

last them obviously I'm an email caught in

1:11:03

my life. Ah, You

1:11:06

remember about anything about that says in

1:11:08

the rightness ball that was a most

1:11:10

beautiful out on ads of the Chateau

1:11:12

in. France. On the Country

1:11:14

is so beautiful because we had a

1:11:17

massive room as a matter of bournemouth

1:11:19

the back window that door behind my

1:11:21

drums could open to can see the

1:11:24

who criticize or back behind my drums

1:11:26

which to be more time to might

1:11:28

the drums get the sound of one.

1:11:30

it's because the openness but in that

1:11:33

room was just so pastoral in the

1:11:35

feeling unless we cut on that album.

1:11:37

All this hype soon as Asics did

1:11:39

car in a world and out there

1:11:42

was like oh my. God after

1:11:44

all that than business at

1:11:46

the to fool. The

1:11:49

flowers and trees in New Moon

1:11:52

is just as beautiful thing. Not.

1:11:55

Going to Ireland something you know whatever bring

1:11:57

to it will bridger it was really business

1:11:59

but have. that thank you for and

1:12:02

Harold King came to me make it

1:12:04

kunga's acoustic piano completely

1:12:07

opposite of what we just cut and

1:12:11

you know vicious on those man I gotta say about that

1:12:13

guy man he said no man we are

1:12:15

a little brother we actually we sampled that

1:12:17

song and it was like literally at the

1:12:20

last minute we you know he

1:12:24

had our people working on this stuff but we

1:12:26

hadn't heard anything and so a buddy of mine

1:12:28

had played with my vision in his band oh

1:12:30

he's like yo man I got his email

1:12:33

we can try I'm like I I'll

1:12:35

try he'll marry that email them

1:12:37

was like hey man this is my group I

1:12:39

tell him what it is he was on vacation

1:12:41

with his family and he's like hey man I'm

1:12:43

on vacation but you know I

1:12:45

think it's great you know we'll do it

1:12:47

and they cleared it and so oh thank

1:12:49

you man like that was a beautiful song

1:12:51

and I'm not is

1:12:54

there do you have a close but no cigar

1:12:56

moment of an artist he was supposed

1:12:58

to work with not Dion Ward but you

1:13:00

know no there are a few I met with

1:13:02

Madonna and I'm making

1:13:04

the album what year well she

1:13:06

had just made I

1:13:09

gave her those high heels that she wore in that

1:13:11

song called Borderline the yellow high heels that those I

1:13:13

can get from me she can't visit me I picked

1:13:15

her up the airport in San Francisco we had a

1:13:17

great meeting she loves Stacey Lattisol she loved my music

1:13:19

with Stacey so she's hot on that kind of a

1:13:21

vibe and then she went to New York and

1:13:24

by a week later she called said you know what I was

1:13:26

Dan New York now I'm looking now Rogers

1:13:29

okay she goes I'm just loving New York I

1:13:32

go I get it I get it I get it I

1:13:34

was in my heart about here relaxing you know she was

1:13:36

like so many names you may like

1:13:38

a version damn you

1:13:41

gifted it to Susan borderline yeah

1:13:43

I need my one or two

1:13:45

questions um okay

1:13:52

I just got pick your brain about a couple

1:13:54

of names that our viewers may

1:13:56

or may not remember or know from

1:13:59

your Daze as a

1:14:01

drummer. I'm a big CTI Records fan

1:14:03

as people might know. Creed Taylor. And

1:14:06

you worked with Alan Holdsworth

1:14:09

on an album called Velvet Darkness in

1:14:11

1976. Do you have

1:14:13

any memories of those sessions? And

1:14:16

Alan Holdsworth? Yes. Alan

1:14:18

asked me to come and record them a CTI.

1:14:21

He's a guitar player by the way. He's one

1:14:23

of the most brilliant guitar players in the world.

1:14:25

Alan Holdsworth. And we all know he's very sensitive.

1:14:28

And I go in there on keyboards as

1:14:30

a cat who's from Tony Williams band, Alan

1:14:32

Pasquale, clapping at keys. And on the basses

1:14:35

from Weatherport, Alfonso Johnson.

1:14:37

And I go in there with

1:14:39

my drum kit. It's a white gretch

1:14:42

kit with the enamel double painted

1:14:44

on the inside which sounds, they

1:14:46

aren't like vibes, clear, but they're

1:14:48

mighty like that. Wood.

1:14:51

And so then Alan starts showing us

1:14:53

these songs. And as he shows

1:14:55

the song, then we play the song and they would

1:14:57

cut it. Then we would cut

1:14:59

it maybe a second time. And that'll be

1:15:02

that. Then we kind of went through those songs like that.

1:15:04

In his mind, he's thinking he's just kind of showing us the songs

1:15:06

and we're gonna come back another time

1:15:08

or whatever you think. I don't know. But

1:15:11

Creed Taylor and Rudy Van Gogh, the

1:15:13

great engineer, they

1:15:16

were loving it. And that was what they wanted to

1:15:18

get. That live fresh raw vibe. And then they wanted

1:15:20

to put it out. And Alan

1:15:22

wanted to do more. Do more takes and whatever he wanted to

1:15:24

do. So there's a

1:15:26

little discrepancy between his concept

1:15:28

and maybe what theirs was. But

1:15:30

I was just doing what I was asked to do and being

1:15:32

paid to do, whatever it was. So

1:15:34

that was the album. It came out. And

1:15:37

I'm proud of it. I'm proud to say

1:15:39

I worked with Alan Ellsworth. Also, I want

1:15:41

to say one more thing. In that same room, there were two

1:15:44

pianos. Black pianos that

1:15:46

were owned by Rudy Van Gogh, the great

1:15:48

engineer, the Hurley Hancock, or Silver. These

1:15:51

geniuses had played on these damn pianos. And his

1:15:53

wife had cancer, so he needed some money. They

1:15:55

said, I want to sell one of my pianos. I

1:15:57

just made $40,000 with wire. sales

1:16:00

and Jeff Beck. So

1:16:02

I said I'll buy one of his

1:16:05

pianos and I bought it and that

1:16:07

became my piano. Let It Be Angel.

1:16:09

Three Way I Love all my hits

1:16:11

on that same piano. So that's part of that connection.

1:16:17

You also played on a historic recording

1:16:19

on a Jaco Pistorius record with Sam

1:16:21

and Dave and Come On Come Over.

1:16:23

Do you have any memories of that? Yeah

1:16:25

I do. Jaco and I became friends

1:16:27

from Miami. That's where I first met him. That's

1:16:30

why I suggested I bring him to Weatherport when I

1:16:32

was asked to join Weatherport. I didn't want to join

1:16:34

Weatherport. I didn't want to go to Tallya Boland and

1:16:36

do rock and roll and get paid on the stage

1:16:38

and go that way. And they said well can you bring a

1:16:40

bass player? I said well I know a cat. Crazy.

1:16:43

named Jaco from Florida. So

1:16:46

Joseph I think I've heard him so we flew him out to LA and

1:16:48

he came and does this great jam

1:16:51

called Cannonball on Black Market. He

1:16:53

started playing that song and adding all the

1:16:55

stuff to it because he had so much ideas. And

1:16:57

then Joe stops in the middle and says don't

1:17:00

play that shit on my song. And it

1:17:02

kind of freezes Jaco. You

1:17:04

know what I mean? And what it

1:17:06

does is it makes Jaco become Jaco.

1:17:10

Now he's more thoughtful. Everything he plays

1:17:12

puts it in the right place. And

1:17:15

people kind of go damn he is genius. After

1:17:19

he joined that band and made Weather,

1:17:21

Heavy Weather, Remark You Made, Teen Town,

1:17:23

those great pieces. He does a solo

1:17:25

album. And because we're friends he

1:17:27

has to become player and come on come over. And I went to

1:17:30

a place on top of a garage,

1:17:32

the home studio of the great drummer

1:17:34

Bobby Colomie from Blood, Sweat and Tears.

1:17:36

He was a producer on that album. So

1:17:39

this is his studio on top of the garage where

1:17:41

I played his drums. A row of

1:17:43

horn cats. And like Tom Malone and

1:17:45

those type people. And then the

1:17:47

rhythm section. All in the same room with Jaco. And

1:17:51

Sam Moore maybe like that. Yeah. It

1:17:54

was live. Just the funk. But

1:18:00

what I didn't did, the funk, you know? Like

1:18:03

what did you think of it? But

1:18:05

Jaco is mean. In

1:18:08

heaven right now, he's looking down, he's mean. He's like

1:18:10

Ali on the bass. Mean.

1:18:14

My final question because every

1:18:17

hip-hop producer will kill me if I don't

1:18:19

ask this. Because

1:18:21

both you and Ed Green

1:18:25

are credited with drumming on Come

1:18:27

Dancing. Who is

1:18:29

playing the actual breakbeat at the top of

1:18:31

that song? Is that you or Ed Green?

1:18:34

Mean. I wrote that song. That

1:18:36

cup song. Yeah. And then later

1:18:38

on when I heard on the record, after I bought the record

1:18:41

quite frankly, I heard Ed Green

1:18:43

on there. And it was cool because

1:18:45

you just made it a little even fatter. The

1:18:48

Overdubbed of Mon is making it fatter. I was

1:18:50

like damn. Didn't that weird though? In fact, all the Jon Hammer stuff,

1:18:52

all this stuff unwired, I didn't hear any of this stuff until I

1:18:54

came out and bought it. Oh

1:18:57

wow. Ed Green and Overdubbed, this

1:18:59

thing. That's how it was. In fact, Jon Hammer didn't

1:19:01

mix it up. It wasn't even mixed up by beautiful

1:19:03

producer George Martin. It was mixed up by Jon. Because

1:19:06

Jeff went up there and fell in love. That's what

1:19:08

he wanted. That's Ed's use out and that's what it was.

1:19:11

So I started out. Boom. Ska.

1:19:15

Boom. You. Ska. Boom.

1:19:18

Ska. Boom. Ska.

1:19:21

Boom. I'm practically playing. I don't come

1:19:24

and get it. I boom. Boom.

1:19:26

Ska. Boom. Boom.

1:19:29

Ska. Boom. Boom.

1:19:32

Ska. All that. Yeah.

1:19:35

Fans of Balloon Mine State and De La Soul are very familiar with that drum break

1:19:38

in. I had to ask that question. It's

1:19:40

the song they sampled on Area

1:19:42

Codes. Look, I

1:19:44

have to say that very rarely

1:19:46

does an episode of

1:19:49

Questlove Supreme go

1:19:52

beyond what I thought it

1:19:54

would be. And the fact that there's even 12

1:19:57

more hours of questions I have for you. shows

1:20:00

how much of a God

1:20:02

you are in your creativity and I

1:20:06

just simply want to thank you for Taking

1:20:08

the time out for these last almost

1:20:10

two hours to share these

1:20:12

stories man because like the world doesn't

1:20:15

know how Awesome

1:20:17

you are man, and you know I

1:20:19

just say thank you. Thank you Chris, man. I'm

1:20:21

a fan of I love your work I love your brilliance

1:20:23

how you bring a tuba in with your drums on the

1:20:25

shows and things like that You

1:20:28

bring this eclectic things that wow

1:20:31

that's keeping the front raw man To

1:20:34

dig you and would love to work on something with you

1:20:36

when I'm out there next we got to meet in person

1:20:38

and Shop it up or something so we're

1:20:40

definitely in contact Yeah

1:20:43

on behalf of the family of

1:20:45

quest love supreme Foncigolo Superbill

1:20:47

I'm giving them new names See

1:20:51

Lya cousin Jake and

1:20:53

Brittany and Foncigolo

1:20:56

and the great Narda Michael Walton. This

1:20:58

is an awesome Damn

1:21:01

episode of quest love supreme now. We've been waiting on

1:21:03

this one for a long time, man. Seriously. Thank you

1:21:05

for doing Cuts man. I

1:21:07

really love it. This has been a highlight for me I

1:21:09

knew was coming and you know back

1:21:11

to have things that when you do interviews You

1:21:14

know you want to make sure you're staying the right

1:21:16

things that you're giving the love and

1:21:18

a lot of our people were talking I'm having the jock

1:21:20

on every thought of Whitney's and they're

1:21:22

looking down and when with us right now Like

1:21:25

what you're gonna say man, you better keep keep keep

1:21:27

me alive. After we forget about me

1:21:29

now I'll hope you

1:21:33

We'll see on the next An

1:21:44

engineer and a man with too many jobs

1:21:46

aka a mere quest love Tom why you

1:21:49

think Claire bought take home is Steve Brian

1:22:00

Calhoun asked him for money,

1:22:02

produced by the people who do

1:22:04

all the real work. Brittany Benjamin, Jake Payne,

1:22:06

and yes, Y.E.A. Ben

1:22:09

Clayer, edited by another person who does the real

1:22:11

work, Alex Conroy. And

1:22:13

those who approve the real work, produced for

1:22:15

I Heart by Noose World. Please

1:22:20

welcome Brittany Benjamin of I Heart

1:22:22

Radio. For

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1:23:05

to 500 Greatest Sollies, a podcast

1:23:07

based on Rolling Stones hugely popular,

1:23:10

influential, and sometimes controversial lists. I'm

1:23:12

Brittany Stanos. And I'm Rob Sheffield.

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We're here to shed light on the greatest

1:23:16

songs ever made and discover what makes them

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so great. From classics like Fleetwood

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Mac's Dreams to the Ronettes, Be My

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Baby, and modern-day classics like The Killer's

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Mr. Bright Side. Listen to Rolling Stones' 500

1:23:27

Greatest Songs on the I Heart

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Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

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you get your podcasts. I'm

1:23:35

Raquel Willis. Join me on

1:23:37

my new podcast, Queer Chronicles, a

1:23:40

show where LGBTQ plus folks tell

1:23:42

their own stories in their own

1:23:44

words. This season, teens

1:23:46

will share all about growing

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up in political battleground states.

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We will always exist and we will

1:23:53

definitely not let them take away our joy,

1:23:55

no matter how hard they try. Listen to

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Queer Chronicles on the I Heart Radio app.

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radio app, Apple podcasts, or

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wherever you get your most

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fabulous shows.