0:00

Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

0:04

Are we rolling one

0:08

time for Doyling? Make

0:11

sure all the pizza is eating? Here

0:14

we go, Let's

0:17

do it. Cream

0:20

shut.

0:20

Supremo Suprima,

0:24

su Supremo, Supremo,

0:27

Sir, Supremo, Supremo,

0:31

sup Supremo.

0:33

Hold hold up, hold up, hold up. Yeah,

0:36

y'all should see my face. Yeah, interfears

0:38

woman and change. Yeah, that's you on

0:41

base.

0:44

Supremo. A lot

0:46

of sun sun Sure.

0:50

My name is Sponte. Yeah, and I ain't

0:52

got no veno, but I'm chilling

0:54

you today. Yeah. My main man

0:57

Pinos Suprema.

1:06

My name is Sugar.

1:07

Yeah.

1:08

My core beliefs yeah, Peace

1:10

love and chicken grease.

1:16

So Supremo, roll called

1:18

Suprema son Son Supremo.

1:21

Roll called I'm unpaid Bill. Yeah,

1:24

that's what we know. Yeah, you

1:26

take your Jamerson, Yeah, I take

1:28

my Pino.

1:32

Suprema.

1:38

It's why you know where finally

1:40

got what rhymes

1:43

with that? You know why you're doing this to me? Goddamn,

1:45

he ain't.

1:46

No Suprema

1:54

Supremo. Yeah,

1:58

my name is Pino. Yeah, I

2:00

couldn't rhyme the same my life.

2:01

Yeah, he's.

2:06

Wait.

2:08

Roll Supprima shut

2:11

Supreme. Wait a minute, wait

2:13

a minute again, I gotta go twice.

2:16

Yeah, that's you on bass and

2:18

another day in Paradise.

2:27

Supremo ro supprima

2:30

supprimo roll call, subpremo,

2:35

subpremo roll.

2:38

This is gonna be that Chris Farley episode. Remember that time

2:40

he played bass on this ship.

2:41

Yeah, okay,

2:43

y'all, this is Questlow Supreme, that's

2:46

Fante, that's Steve, that's I'm big billed.

2:48

That's why I'm trying to slow the theme down

2:50

for you. See, you have more time to think and change your run.

2:53

Right, No, no, no, you know, I mean now, you know, just

2:55

ride the rhythm. Okay, you're right. I'm

2:58

trying to help because I was told I

3:00

don't support you enough on the show, and I want and

3:02

that's how you're gonna do it. Yeah, I was slowing the music

3:04

down so you have more time to think about your mind.

3:07

But and I did it, and you you

3:09

tipped the ball in, you won the champion. Okay,

3:11

all right, now you finished. Now,

3:16

Yeah it's

3:19

like something like that. Okay,

3:22

well, halopeno, good.

3:26

Cappuccino.

3:27

Wait a minute. If you do

3:29

a gospel record, you could call

3:31

it a hollow Nobody

3:38

like that, yeah,

3:40

totally, you call your host. This

3:45

is probably gonna be the shortest introduction ever,

3:47

Ladies and gentlemen. If

3:52

I only had one

3:54

person to choose to play

3:57

bass with for the rest

3:59

of my I

4:01

would choose our guest, Pino

4:05

Palladino. Because

4:10

the real truth is something told me

4:12

to just go to Spotify real quick and see,

4:15

like, you know, because they'll always make

4:17

like a playlist or whatever and things you played on or whatever.

4:20

And I thought, normally,

4:22

like my thing ends at like at

4:25

least like seventy four songs. Maybe

4:28

Yo, dude, you've played

4:30

on like five

4:33

hundred and ten songs, and

4:37

yo, like, I thought you were just my

4:40

secret, super

4:45

secret.

4:47

Yo.

4:48

Dog Like, I didn't realize

4:50

you're playing base on all good

4:52

for Daylight Soul. Now do kind of remember

4:54

that? I believe the

4:56

day that I was supposed to fix whatever

4:59

song I forget the name of the song I'm supposed

5:02

to fix for them on that album, but

5:05

you came in before to play.

5:07

Well, you know what happened. We were in Electric Lady,

5:09

me and you and right. It

5:11

was the day we finished. You got a call, right,

5:14

and you're like, yeah, he's here, and

5:16

You're like what are you doing, Like now, can

5:19

you go over to De La Soul Studio and play on this

5:21

song? So right, that's how that came about. So thank

5:23

you.

5:23

Yeah that was I forgot

5:26

about that. But I'm literally going through this thing and

5:28

even with stuff that I should

5:30

know, Like, I didn't realize that was you. On times of wasting.

5:34

I had on times of wasting a little bit because I feel

5:36

like that's other side of the game, diet,

5:39

the other side of the game without me Erica

5:42

James. You know, I'm not salty,

5:44

but people love that song. All

5:50

right, we got a limited time with you. Brot's

5:52

just let's just go. First

5:54

of all, Okay, where are you from?

5:57

Okay? So I was born in Cardiff and Wales,

6:00

Okay, to an Italian father Welsh mother.

6:03

Spent most of my youth in Cardiff. Moved

6:06

to London nineteen eighty one and

6:09

lived there until twenty sixteen when

6:11

I moved to la That's a real.

6:13

Brief really,

6:16

all right. So then day two just became Funky's

6:18

motherfucker right

6:22

there.

6:22

So yeah, in Cardiff where I grew up,

6:26

you know, I hit a lot of different music. Down the docks

6:28

area of Cardiff, there were a lot of a

6:30

lot of soul music, a lot of African music, stuff

6:33

like that, reggae. So I grew

6:35

up listening to a lot of that music, and when

6:38

I moved to London in the early eighties,

6:40

I didn't really get to play that music. I

6:43

was playing fretless space and

6:45

it became a thing, and I played on

6:47

a whole bunch of pop records and different

6:50

artists were calling me for that

6:52

sound. So move on to

6:54

like nineteen ninety seven, when I met

6:57

Dee and you. That was

6:59

the first time where I really got to express that

7:01

side of you

7:04

know, that that roots bass playing

7:06

thing.

7:07

Okay, I know that here at iHeart,

7:09

we're all out like ten seconds of music. So

7:11

just to let the world know. The

7:14

song that really set it up that I soon set

7:16

it off for you and your reputation for bass playing

7:18

was, of course, uh Lady

7:21

Ray by Christoper.

7:23

Well there's one before that, never mind Okay,

7:26

yeah, sorry, bro, I have to say Paul Young

7:28

Wherever Lay in My Hat, which

7:30

is a Marvin Gaye cover. It's a B side of a mind

7:32

gay So I know we rearranged and it had

7:34

like a fretless intro and it was mainly

7:37

like fretless bass and voice penal

7:39

wife fretless. That's a good question,

7:42

thank you. Well, yeah,

7:45

Jacko, Jacko past

7:47

stories obviously. But but even before Jacko,

7:49

when I was a kid, I went to a concert

7:52

and saw John Martin, who's a great folk

7:54

guitarist songwriter back in back

7:56

in the UK, and Danny Thompson was

7:58

playing upright bass with him, and

8:00

that sound really did something for me

8:02

when I was when I was a kid, and

8:05

that was like the slidy stuff to harmonics, you

8:08

know, that sort of fretless approach that Jacko

8:11

also had. So is this

8:13

you yeah,

8:16

every time you go away?

8:23

Yeah, right

8:26

all day.

8:28

I can see why you were so happy to play old Bodo.

8:31

It's still a classic.

8:33

No, I can't find Paul Young and I'm

8:35

going to tear your down

8:38

and all that stuff. In high

8:40

school like were you in

8:42

a high school band?

8:45

Like what was your teen years? Like? Playbass?

8:48

Yeah, I didn't really play guitar until

8:50

I was like fourteen, I guess. And

8:52

I came to it from before bass.

8:54

I played like Spanish guitar, and I came

8:56

to it because I went to a Catholic school and

8:59

we had a priest there that would give like lessons

9:02

so that you could play like cowboy chords

9:04

type of stuff, you know, in folk masses.

9:07

So I kind of started playing in church church.

9:11

Everybody.

9:13

I was waiting for that.

9:17

Black church, all church.

9:19

All right, I get it now.

9:20

But we didn't have much of a music of course, a

9:22

music type of thing in the schools

9:24

I was in in that in those times. So it's really

9:27

more about sports for me. When I was a teen, I wasn't

9:29

really that interested in music till

9:31

I reached like sixteen maybe.

9:34

So did you always know that

9:36

the less is more approach

9:40

is the way to go. There's

9:42

a moment where I lived for

9:45

every night, every night

9:48

whenever we would get to left

9:50

and right, and I'm speaking of

9:52

our our time served on the

9:55

Voodoo toward D'Angelo, and you

9:57

know that was every

9:59

night was like a two hour and fifteen minute experience

10:02

or you know, no, indeed, sometimes sometimes

10:05

three autum right right right. But

10:08

when the song is over and we go back

10:10

to that bridge right before the very end, that's

10:13

when I learned

10:17

that when you don't play nothing,

10:20

that's almost as effective as if

10:23

you know the bass player. That's like, I gotta

10:25

get my best flee thing on and do the best

10:29

and impress people. So you would actually

10:32

you would play the groove and then come back in

10:34

and I don't know, like, I was just like, wait, why

10:37

does that excite me? Why is not playing some

10:39

excite me more? So suddenly I

10:41

was like, what happens if I just take the kick dromount

10:44

for two bars and see

10:46

what happens? And then when it comes

10:48

back in, it's almost like I came back even more

10:51

branded and I started doing that trick

10:53

and people, you know, like what you know, musicians

10:56

like the highest honor is the post still a who? Like

10:59

that woo who? Indeed, And

11:02

that's a trick I stole from you, which is like when

11:04

I don't do something and pay take

11:06

it away and then bring it back dynamics.

11:09

Man, it's even better. So

11:11

how did you learn he

11:14

just forgot the notes and just.

11:18

Well, you know, it comes from Okay, if

11:20

I think about that, it probably

11:22

comes from like playing sessions

11:24

for reggae guys back

11:27

in the day, because you know, there,

11:30

I don't know the names of these guys I was playing with. Because

11:32

I was a young bass player, I was listening to a lot of fusion

11:34

stuff. So I want to play a lot of notes, right, so

11:36

you did want to hell yeah, okay, yeah,

11:39

but then these guys would just like tap

11:41

out the rhythm of the baseline on my shoulder

11:43

in the studio like doo doo, doo doo doo.

11:47

Nothing, you know.

11:48

And that told me about space and

11:51

if you want to get into it. I mean, you got controls

11:54

of the notes and the length of the notes, but you also

11:56

have control of the spaces, right, And

11:58

that's that's where the one for me.

12:00

Is louder for the people in the

12:02

back. Man, Yeah, I would love nothing

12:04

more than for every musician to just

12:08

lay back and do do

12:10

less.

12:11

But you know, well

12:13

yeah, but that being said, Pano, do you ever want to put together

12:16

a jazz fusion band where you just fucking kick ass?

12:18

Oh I've done that too, yeah yeah,

12:21

yeah, even play.

12:23

Even the night that we wanted to go see you with Chris, like

12:26

I've never seen you in that environment. I was wondering,

12:28

like, well, is Pinal going to be the piano

12:30

that I know the piano to be or is he going to like flex

12:33

a little bit? And you like, if

12:35

you can hang with Chris David, then you can hang with anyone

12:38

anything, any you know, So how

12:41

old were you when you officially changed

12:43

over to.

12:44

Playing bass to bass seventeen?

12:47

How weird of adjustment is that?

12:49

Is it transferable?

12:51

Yeah? For sure? Yeah. I mean I was playing guitar in

12:54

a local rock band and we had

12:56

a bass player, and you

12:58

know, I kept on picking up the bay and like working

13:01

out the lines for him to play. Not a

13:03

good ear from very early on. And the more I

13:05

play bass and more it's like I want to do this,

13:07

this is more fun.

13:09

So like for me, the drums aren't

13:11

the focus point. You're just the traffic cop

13:14

as the drum, And like

13:17

I'm supposed to be married to the bass player, and

13:19

you taught me that it's a marriage right and not

13:22

for nothing without being disrespectful to my entire

13:24

history. But sometimes it's like if you don't

13:27

have a good marriage air

13:29

quotes yes with the rhythm

13:31

section, which is the drum and bass, then you

13:34

know your music might be in trouble. And

13:36

I've been in a few situations which you

13:39

don't vibe.

13:39

Rhythmically right with you

13:42

not on the same vocabulary right.

13:43

So for you when you're

13:46

in an ensemble, and now like

13:48

since you're such a god

13:51

at your craft, I would at least

13:53

like to think that musicians

13:55

respect where you come from and

13:58

kind of want to fall in line. But is

14:00

it hard to find musicians

14:03

to come down

14:05

to your level and you know, to the end.

14:07

I don't mean the abyss as in like the bottom is a

14:09

bad place, but like that zone where

14:11

you are where you do just very little and you do

14:13

just the right things, and for them

14:16

not to overplay or over do.

14:18

It's a good question to me, and I think it can be really

14:21

frustrating sometimes when you know how something

14:23

could sound if if

14:25

they were just like monor adjustments. But

14:28

in my experience, it never really helps to try

14:31

and tell somebody that they have to come

14:33

to it.

14:33

I was gonna say, are you allowed to tell the person?

14:36

Yeah? It usually doesn't work.

14:37

Doesn't work out now, it doesn't work out now. As

14:39

a drummer, I've learned ways where I can

14:42

force people to see things my way. I've

14:44

learned like a loud flam and

14:46

suddenly everyone's.

14:47

Like right, they stop

14:49

playing, or if you docket their pay

14:52

they'll notice that all

14:55

work every time.

14:56

Yeah, but I mean there's you know, and I'll slow it down

14:58

or whatever I mean. But now just communication mic

15:01

so it's you know, I'll just

15:03

say stop playing, you know, But is

15:06

there a way that you talk

15:08

to other instruments to hm

15:11

reel them back or if

15:13

you hear wrong note the keyboard's playing, you sort

15:15

of not.

15:16

Really in terms of how many. In terms of rhythm, that's

15:19

that's my thing, you know, rhythm. I'm

15:21

hot on that ship. That's why we hit it off so much.

15:24

But you know what you said about maybe the drums

15:26

aren't the driving force behind the band. I think in

15:29

beat driven music for me, like

15:31

if I'm gonna produce something or

15:33

put a band together, the first thing I think

15:35

about is the drums. You know, get

15:37

that right and then everything's gonna fit in. So

15:40

I think rhythmically, yes, sometimes

15:43

if I feel like somebody's

15:46

hanging back on the drums are slowing down, I'll push a

15:48

little bit. But I don't have any kind of communication

15:51

things like you said, a loud flam that would stop

15:53

everyone playing or stuff like that.

15:55

But you both are notorious like these

15:58

from what I hear in playing on the back side

16:00

of the beat all the time, and that's sort of the angelo

16:03

where it lives. So like when you go to a different

16:06

band where it's more like whether

16:08

it's on a click or it's something like that or

16:10

what was it like?

16:11

Yeah the Who?

16:12

Yeah, yeah like that that

16:14

ship would not work with the Who.

16:18

So you got to give what's called for.

16:20

Yeah, totally, And you know that's what That's

16:22

what I love too about playing so many different

16:24

genres of music. It's it's like it's all about

16:28

the relationship with the bass and the drums, right Like

16:30

in soul music, black music, generally,

16:33

the bass is important with the drums. You know

16:35

that that those are the two things that really put

16:38

the thing in a place. In rock

16:40

music, it's more like guitars and drums, and

16:42

the bass is you know, it's supportive. It

16:45

might be playing some some some

16:48

licks and stuff, but mainly the interactions

16:50

between rock guitar and drums.

16:52

All right, So for every bass player that's listening,

16:55

that will kill me if I don't ask the right questions.

16:58

What was your first base

17:01

that you purchased or the first acts that you

17:03

endor Precision? Wait, you've always

17:06

used a Fender Precision, Yeah.

17:07

From that was the first act I had, yeah, back

17:10

in the nineteen seventy five, I guess.

17:12

Yeah.

17:13

Okay, So what you're known for,

17:16

how do you, how do you get your tone? Like what bass

17:18

are you using?

17:19

Mostly a Precision base, no more

17:21

moon, Yeah, the moon comes in sometimes

17:24

that's more like a jazz style based, like a Fender

17:26

jazz style base.

17:26

Here's a weird thing. Okay, So just recently

17:29

played with Larry Graham like two months

17:31

ago. Wow, and he had not

17:33

only did he have the moon at

17:36

a mic. Oh, he didn't have a mic

17:38

thing on him that we were in a studio setting,

17:41

but I saw blood

17:43

marks on it. So yeah,

17:46

like so he really like gets into

17:49

right. But his it was weird to me because

17:52

I saw the moon base and I was like, wow,

17:54

I wonder like if he has the same tone as

17:56

Pino, because you know he was

17:58

just an acornerly practice and whatever, and it

18:00

didn't sound that way.

18:03

So how do you what the sound

18:05

that we know you for? Like which strings are

18:07

you using?

18:08

What?

18:09

What are all your secrets even

18:12

if you were to give it?

18:14

Yeah, yeah,

18:16

I mean it's it's public knowledge is out

18:18

there. I've done interviews before kidding hearing

18:20

stuff like that. But yeah, I mean my

18:23

Desert Island Basse would be a fan of Precision Base.

18:26

It's just got one sound and a tone. Control,

18:29

right, just one pickup on a tone. You don't

18:31

have selection of different sounds from pickups.

18:33

It's pretty much one sound. And

18:35

I like the sound of flat wine strings on it. They

18:37

feel better just physically, they feel better,

18:40

and the longer you leave them on, the more

18:43

warmth the sound is warm.

18:44

So the older Yeah, I

18:47

played your base before and those

18:49

strings are really really thin, Like

18:52

you can't things

18:55

that I expect. Yeah, like I'm thinking Seinfeld

18:58

basic.

18:59

Absolutely, Yeah, you need luck wild

19:01

wine strings, round wine strings for that sound

19:03

really like Larry Larry sounds, you know.

19:05

So how often do you break a string?

19:08

Never?

19:09

Yeah, because you barely touched the string.

19:10

Yeah, I don't hit the strings out at all. Yeah.

19:12

So the fender you have,

19:16

right, I don't know how many fenders you

19:18

have on you?

19:19

Yeah?

19:19

Look okay, So well

19:23

let me ask as your life since

19:26

Voodoo, has your life changed as far as

19:28

the volume of bases that you have.

19:31

Or since probably the who

19:33

yeah? Yeah? With the who yeah gave me the opportunity

19:36

to buy stuff in.

19:38

The Voodoo days between two thousand

19:40

and two thousand and three, how many

19:42

bases are you carrying around with you?

19:44

Like? Two? Pretty much? That's what I remember

19:46

okay, yeah.

19:47

So the strings you had

19:49

on your Voodoo basse, do you still have your Voodoo basse?

19:51

Yeah, with the same strings.

19:53

Wow.

19:55

Oh yeah, I put those on A ninety three.

19:58

Nineteen ninety three. Yeah, and it's

20:01

always just stayed in working

20:03

order.

20:04

And yeah, they sound

20:06

like I said, they sound warm. With the longest they kind

20:08

of settle into the instrument just to string itself.

20:11

Remember what happened to your moon base? Yeah,

20:14

what happened that Voodoo base. We're

20:17

not podcast, we don't get contact.

20:20

We just assumed.

20:24

Please continue.

20:25

Well, yeah, I was what happened to your black

20:27

moon base?

20:28

It was actually the So this is weird,

20:30

but the moon bases I had two stolen.

20:33

So the white one was stolen. The first one I played

20:35

on Voodoo album was a white base that was

20:37

stolen somehow. When I checked

20:39

it in in San Francisco Airport and the

20:42

United flight, it just didn't come out in l

20:44

A. And that was a less sort of it.

20:46

Doing the Voodoo tour.

20:47

Just before the Voodoo.

20:48

Tour, damn, just before I didn't

20:50

want to hear the story.

20:51

I'm having ptsdright.

20:53

But but then I had a you know, I had a

20:56

well, then I contacted the company and they

20:58

made me a new Moon base.

21:00

They're like, yeah, right, Pano, we won't

21:02

give you one.

21:02

Yeah, but they said, you know there's a limited

21:05

run of the Larry Graham so we we you

21:07

know, we can't do you the white one like like Larry

21:09

Bass. And I said, okay, we'll make me a black one there.

21:12

So that's that's how I got the black Moon Base. Then

21:15

that got stolen from a hoo gig in

21:18

like two thousand and eight.

21:20

You who keeps stealing piano's basses.

21:23

But there's a good end to this story.

21:26

It came back to me, Oh thank

21:28

you. That was somebody

21:32

bought it from a porn store or something and

21:36

they they were they were a fan and they've

21:38

been watching some videos of us playing Voodoo

21:40

and they saw the bass had a couple of knicks out

21:42

of the neck and he's like, I think

21:44

this is Pino's space. And they

21:46

reached out to me and I got it back. Incredible,

21:49

right, Yeah.

21:55

My thing is is that the

21:57

Voodoo fender that

22:00

should never leave your house ever again?

22:02

Like yeah, well it's safe, it's safe.

22:04

Yeah, Like seriously for me, I

22:07

just got my things fall apart. Drum set back. Well,

22:11

no, the studio tried to auctionit

22:14

it.

22:15

So are y'all really saying that an instrument you

22:17

use an instrument for every project and then we just move

22:19

on?

22:20

Is that what we're saying?

22:20

You know what? I'm different like that? So start

22:23

with fallon every one hundred episodes,

22:25

I make love Wig, make me a brand new drum set.

22:29

It's problematic now for storage because I have about

22:31

sixty three drum

22:34

sets, like and I'm running out of space,

22:37

so I got to stop that. But but

22:42

for the most part, I've I've documented

22:44

every drum set I've played on for

22:46

records, you know.

22:48

Every record a different set, That's what I'm.

22:49

Saying sort

22:52

of kind of, I mean, but not by design,

22:54

like oh for this particular one, I'm to use this one for this,

22:57

you know, but I I Yeah,

23:00

for roots albums, I will like, hey,

23:02

let me especially with Phrenology,

23:04

which was like, okay, let's make the anti things fall apart

23:07

record, Oh, let me try a different drum set. So that's

23:09

where that comes into play.

23:11

So since you're divulging some of your

23:13

technique, so where's

23:15

the secret sauce? And I'm thinking gain structure

23:18

and like, because you know, a me or how you're always

23:20

talking about how the lighter you

23:22

hit.

23:23

A drum, Yes, the more effective. I just discovered

23:25

the lighter you hit that's where the pop

23:27

comes on.

23:29

The bass, right, because if you hit well, if you hit any

23:31

instrument too hot, it's going to choke it, right, if

23:34

you the string too hot, it's going to bounce against the threat

23:36

and choke the the envelope

23:38

with the note, you know. So I mean a light

23:40

touch it gives you more bottom

23:42

man for sure.

23:44

Which is kind of counterintuitive, almost

23:46

like you would you know, but

23:49

that just takes out the bottom nd and the

23:52

harmonics or how how.

23:53

Do you like?

23:54

Is that part of that?

23:55

Not really? I mean, you know, I

23:57

love the sound that James Jamison made on the bass, and

24:00

that was the idea back in ninety three. When I

24:02

got that base, I immediately put

24:05

those old heavy

24:07

cation labella strings on it and

24:11

just left them on ever since. You know. But they don't have

24:13

any top on them, so if you play like Jacko

24:16

style harmonics, you won't get them out

24:18

of those flat strings at all. So it's

24:20

more about the fundamental sound. And you

24:24

know, I don't really have the tone on very much

24:26

either. The tone is kind of on half or sometimes

24:28

less than half, so it's a real thump.

24:30

Well what about the volume coming like, yeah,

24:33

how do you do your game structure until you get to your

24:35

amp or whatever?

24:37

Yeah? I mean I just I just literally

24:39

have the volume on fall and then it's up to whoever's

24:41

getting the sound. What kind of amp? Yeah?

24:44

Well, B fifteens are great, right, the MPG B fifteens

24:47

for studio or live or yeah,

24:49

studio, yeah, but live. I mean I

24:51

used one on a tour recently. Live because

24:53

everyone's on your ears now, so you don't need that

24:56

big sound behind you because you can hear it clearly,

24:58

you know.

24:59

Okay, So if I'm

25:03

learning bass again, I'm

25:05

using the opposite of you, bass

25:08

player, I still respect, but kind of the opposite

25:10

Flee.

25:11

Yeah, yeah, totally.

25:12

What type of strings am I?

25:14

Are?

25:14

Those like heavy duty strings that can take the pounding.

25:16

And not necessarily but he probably

25:19

uses like a medium gauge round

25:21

wild string, I would guess, because

25:23

then you get the pop out of it, and the round

25:25

wild strings allow you to get that bounce when you hit

25:27

it with your thumb.

25:28

Now, do you have the ability to

25:31

go full throttle pop

25:34

if you if challenge.

25:35

I mess with a little bit. Yeah,

25:40

yeah, yeah, but no, that's that's not my

25:42

bullpark.

25:42

Really okay, okay, But

25:45

if I

25:48

guess your particular

25:50

uh, your particular choice

25:53

of strings, if

25:56

you haven't changed them since nineteen ninety three,

26:00

and like, what if you run into a

26:02

situation like now Ampex

26:04

tapes are hard to find right now. I

26:06

was recording at a time where the Impact tapes were everywhere.

26:08

But had I known then stock

26:11

up on Ampex tapes, I would

26:13

have stocked. But now here we are in twenty twenty

26:15

three and you can hardly find them. What if

26:17

you're in a situation in which strings

26:20

that you haven't changed since thirty

26:23

years ago, go like, is there

26:25

a likelihood of this?

26:26

Well, you know, one of them broke on A two

26:28

with D actually on twenty fifteen to

26:30

two with D. The E string on that on that

26:32

thing broke and I put a

26:34

new version of it on and it sounded like it

26:37

wasn't very good at.

26:37

All, So they changed the recipes

26:40

throughout the.

26:41

Well, no, but those strings just sound different when

26:43

they get older. So if you got three strings

26:45

like thirty years old and one new one.

26:47

Just the it's the same for microphones

26:50

really Oh yeah, Like I bought

26:52

a annoyman U

26:55

eighty seven and like fresh

26:57

out the box, it sounded very harsh and

27:00

Brita and my dealer was telling me. He was like, yeah, the

27:02

older, the older mice over time,

27:04

like you were saying, they warm up like just

27:07

that age.

27:07

You know, spits all over them. That's

27:13

the flavor. Yeah, you know for real

27:15

mm hmm. So besides

27:19

James Jamerson, is there

27:22

other unsung heroes that you know

27:24

you don't think get enough credit? Bass

27:26

playing once?

27:27

Yeah? Oh man, absolutely, I

27:30

mean we know about Stanley Clark, Jacob

27:33

Pastoriscus a huge influence. Larry

27:35

Graham too, now getting the prophecy deserves,

27:37

you know. But yeah,

27:40

for me, like Michael Henderson is up there, absolutely,

27:43

man, Michael Henderson.

27:45

Yeah, I gotta tell our listeners. I

27:48

believe, yes, this is definitely

27:50

Michael interested If you buy

27:53

the Stevie Wonder Talk of the Town, Yeah,

27:56

in London, that's his I

27:59

believe that's his word corn on that

28:01

version of I Always made the Lover where

28:03

he's just it's ungodly

28:06

like that to me.

28:07

His solo album is like going places. Yes,

28:10

the base playing on that, Oh my good

28:13

so.

28:14

I know why we're laughing.

28:16

I know why we're laughing, but we're

28:18

not messing around with that.

28:20

It's good to hear someone speak of

28:23

places where I praised, because we

28:25

have a different places.

28:28

That's a jam though.

28:30

All right. So what was your first

28:33

gig as a professional,

28:35

like your first session gig?

28:39

Yeah, okay, yeah. It was at Rockfield Studios

28:42

in Monmouth in Wales. Quite

28:44

a famous studio. A lot of a lot of great records

28:46

were done there over the years, but that was my first session. My

28:49

friend was playing keys in the show band. When

28:52

I say show band, they would do everything from Glenn

28:54

Miller to like the bony Am to whatever

28:56

pop was in the charts, you know. Like So

28:59

they were in the studio for some reason, I don't

29:01

know why, and I just went down to hang and

29:04

the bass player in the band, you

29:07

know, they wanted like some slap and pop bass

29:09

and the bass player they had wasn't familiar with that

29:11

style and I happened to be there. So

29:14

my friend told the musical director

29:16

and he's like, would you would you try

29:18

playing this baseline? So that was the first time

29:20

I put a pair of headphones on in the studio and

29:23

played with the band, and I just loved

29:25

it. Man, I couldn't believe it.

29:26

How old were you.

29:28

Nineteen? Maybe?

29:29

Okay, we we know of

29:32

you, Okay, I guess

29:34

Paul Young was well. Was Dules Holland

29:36

first?

29:36

Yeah? Yeah, yeah yeah. Jules Holland

29:38

got me to move down to London.

29:40

So he offered me, h well, let me explain. Was

29:42

Jules was Jules hollend and Squeeze

29:46

right? He was originally and Squeeze first career.

29:48

Yeah, he had just show host.

29:50

Before he had a solo thing with the

29:53

Millionaires. Yeah, a Millionaires so

29:56

and then the talk show came much later, I

29:59

think.

29:59

Okay, so what was that experience

30:01

like playing How long did you play with him?

30:03

Oh? I would play with Jewels for probably like a

30:05

year, eighteen months or something like that.

30:07

There's a great album cover.

30:10

Yeah that

30:13

was fun man, I love those days.

30:15

It was fun days. And so

30:18

playing with Jewels, I was just playing my friend of

30:20

base and I went down to audition

30:22

in London because sax player in

30:24

Jules's band, I knew him in Cardiff

30:26

and he said, Jewels is looking for bass player. So

30:29

I went down to London and audition, just

30:32

sat in his room and played with him, followed the left

30:34

hand piano thing, you know, the boogie woogie piano

30:36

thing, and we hit it off and he

30:38

said, you know, why don't you just join

30:41

the band. I'll pay you fifty pounds a week and sleep on

30:43

my couch. So that's how I moved to London.

30:45

Years is nineteen eighty

30:48

one.

30:49

Okay, So was that a

30:51

good living?

30:53

Oh? Financially yeah, hell no, it

30:56

was okay, It was okay. I survived on it.

30:58

I always asked this question. I'd never get like

31:00

a satisfactory answer, which, you know, I'm just

31:02

trying to time travel and also

31:05

deal with the inflation part of it all. Like I want

31:07

to know in eighty one, in

31:10

your mind, what is a good living, like, what

31:13

would been ideal for you? Is

31:15

it five hundred pounds a week?

31:17

Not even like, you know, two

31:20

hundred that I would have been happy with two hundred

31:22

a week back, I would have thought I was doing really well.

31:24

So what does fifty pounds a week

31:27

get you in London? In terms

31:29

like are you just crashing a room and a calcul

31:31

yeah?

31:32

Back, and it was eating yeah

31:34

pretty much.

31:36

Well.

31:36

Jules's mom used to cook for us, bless her that

31:40

was nice, but yeah, not

31:42

a very healthy diet. You know, pack of the cigarettes,

31:45

some weed, you know, usual

31:47

thing.

31:49

Yeah, as far as touring is concerned,

31:51

like, you also had the tour of this unit.

31:53

Correct, Yeah, we to oh this

31:55

year did you say sorry, no, no no?

31:57

With Jewels?

31:58

Yeah, yeah, we did some touring. That's my first

32:00

tour of America actually in New York.

32:02

Really.

32:02

Yeah. We did a tour of the East coast, just traveling

32:05

up and down in Miles Copeland's van.

32:07

Miles Copeland was the manager back in Starts,

32:10

right, yeah, manager of the police, okay.

32:12

Was he also the manager of Jewels?

32:15

Okay, So we did a little touring

32:17

with that. We released one record that didn't

32:19

do too well.

32:21

Nice album coming but what yeah exactly.

32:24

But whilst I was in New York, I went into sam

32:26

Ash Music on forty eighth Street, where

32:28

all the great music stores were back in the day, right,

32:31

And I walked in there and I saw this music man

32:34

fretless base on the wall. I

32:36

was like, oh, I like to try that. So

32:38

I asked the guy if I could try it. And I

32:40

played it and I could I could play it in tune,

32:42

you know, it just it really suited

32:45

me that base. So I bought that base there and then

32:47

and that was the base, the base that led

32:50

to all the fretless sessions

32:52

that I got to do after that.

32:53

So such an unusual

32:56

sound than what you were previously

32:58

playing on. Was there any convincing

33:02

Paul Young or Chris? I

33:04

always say, Chris de Barge, Christ

33:07

Chris de Burg all right, Chris de Burgh,

33:11

Like was there any or not even them like

33:13

their producers or.

33:14

You know how that all came about him? Whilst

33:17

I was with Jeweles, I got a call from a friend of mine,

33:19

Chris Slade, who was a drummer at

33:21

the time with Gary Numo. He went on

33:24

to play with ac DC and a whole bunch of stuff

33:26

and played with Tom Jones back in the early

33:28

days. So this guy done incredible.

33:31

Wait, you're trying to tell me the same guy that played

33:33

cards with Gary Numan. It was also the

33:35

guy that could have been played on It's not unusual.

33:38

Not because but the album after that, there's

33:41

an album I was involved in called I Assassin by

33:43

Gary. Yeah.

33:45

You know what, Here's here's the weird

33:47

thing. If you ask Wendy and Lisa

33:50

about you know, the influential Records,

33:52

like it's so weird. They mentioned every album but that,

33:54

like they'll mention I Assassin

33:57

and the one that came out, like

33:59

if you listen into that, if you listened to eighty

34:01

two record, the album that came after Prince

34:03

basically like it's kind of

34:05

his newest store.

34:06

Hesten to that. Yeah, oh that freaks

34:08

me out. It's amazing. Wow.

34:11

So so yeah, this guy Chris Slade,

34:13

he he phoned me up whilst I was with Jules On and he

34:16

said, look, I'm working with Gary Newman. He's

34:18

looking for a fretless bass player. Do you have a

34:20

fretless And I said, well, as it happens,

34:22

I just bought just a few months

34:25

ago.

34:25

You know.

34:26

He said, well, bring the fretless and and you know, let's

34:29

see how it goes. So I went to the

34:31

studio met Gary. He had a bunch

34:33

of tunes like just drum beats

34:35

and really minimal

34:37

kind of keyboard things, and he just wanted

34:39

me to do some fretless shit all

34:41

over the record. So that album became

34:44

my calling card in a way because

34:46

I got to make up on my own baselines.

34:48

People heard that and then yeah,

34:52

you know, I got on top of the Pops with Gary, which is

34:54

a big thing at the time. And you know, the sound

34:56

was pretty fresh because it didn't sound like Jacko's

34:58

sound, but he was fretless, probably

35:01

a cross between like Jacko and Mick Kahn.

35:03

You know Mick Kahn from Japan,

35:06

the band Japan.

35:07

I'm not familiar with the word.

35:08

Yeah, So he played fretless bass and he had a unique

35:11

style. So I would put

35:13

myself somewhere in the middle of that, like with jazz references,

35:15

but also like auti

35:18

style of bass playing.

35:19

Right, you know, how do you approach the

35:21

construction of fretless bass lines versus

35:24

fretted Is it a different approach?

35:25

Do you think about it differently?

35:26

Yeah? Totally in what sense? Well,

35:29

the way I would approach it on the fretless bace is more

35:31

from a melodic sense, you know,

35:34

just trying to find melodies because it's a very

35:36

expressive instrument.

35:37

Right then, I'm going to try to spell this word and I'm going to figure

35:39

out what this means.

35:42

All right here. Right, So,

35:45

you you've seen a bass player before, right in terms

35:47

of like the part that they play with their left

35:49

hand. Okay, a fretless

35:52

bass, I would say, is the sound

35:55

of like you know, the difference between electric what

35:57

Adam Blackstone plays and in

35:59

upright Christian McBride plays, like

36:01

the jazzier sound. A fretless

36:04

can give you the sound

36:06

of an upright jazz in my

36:09

incorrect or.

36:09

Yeah yeah, I mean, you don't have any threats, so you can

36:12

just slide the notes. You know, it's a different

36:14

and it's a different envelope to the note. It's a different

36:16

shape.

36:17

It's a lady in red you know.

36:18

So that's the sound of the threadless

36:21

You don't lady.

36:24

Yeah, we know your work.

36:26

That's amazing.

36:27

But now wait, now you got me curious

36:29

about.

36:31

Assassin, right, so like

36:35

we take Mystery to bed, that's one of the titles.

36:37

I remember that.

36:38

Yes, that's

36:47

a lot of notes. That's

36:50

like more notes than usual.

36:51

Oh yeah, so let me ask you, do you respect?

36:53

And I've just seen them two weeks ago? Do you respect?

36:56

Oh?

36:56

Boy?

36:57

John Taylor?

36:57

John Taylor? Sure man, yo, he

37:00

was killing all right. So I saw the Red

37:03

Rocks. They're on tour with Mount Rodgers

37:05

right now. You guys should really see them like they're they're still

37:08

on top four. I believe

37:12

it feels like some of those songs on the

37:14

real album are also fretless.

37:18

I don't think so, but you know, well maybe I'm not familiar

37:21

with that album actually, but I think it

37:23

was more sonic thing back in the eighties because

37:25

he didn't you didn't play bass bass right,

37:27

It wasn't much Bottoman based on it, and

37:30

you would probably play your bass track in

37:32

the control room, you know, when

37:34

everything else had already been put down. So you're

37:36

going for a more kind of you know,

37:38

a sound that's going to pop out of the speakers. You don't

37:41

really have to support, like

37:43

play play support bass.

37:45

Can you play upright bass?

37:47

No, not at all.

37:48

Have you touched it up right base?

37:50

I've touched it. I love it, but I can't play it. It's

37:52

a different instrument altogether, really, Yeah,

37:55

so just gun to your head, like,

37:57

oh no, I tried to do a gig on it and I was

38:00

My hand was so painful after like one get

38:03

you know one song. Really, it's such

38:05

a physical it's a different muss. Well,

38:08

this is what I play is like a guitar, right, It's a bass,

38:10

but it's a bass guitar, so that's

38:12

a whole different thing.

38:13

Yeah, So

38:18

what steps are in between Newman

38:22

and Paul and Chris.

38:25

Like Sir Newman.

38:27

That led to Paul Young in a way, because you

38:30

know, Paul and his producers got

38:32

to hear those Newman records and imagine

38:34

that sound on the record he was making. And

38:36

then like Dave Gilmour from

38:39

Pink Floyd I did his solo record.

38:41

That was a big, big one for me, just to get

38:43

a call from him and you know, I want

38:46

you to come and do this album with me in Paris. I was like,

38:48

oh my god, this is it so for you?

38:50

Is Lady in Red sort of like the the

38:53

world's wake up call? Like get that guy?

38:56

It might have been bro. I think more of the poor Young stuff

38:59

because Chris Chris came to me from Paul Young,

39:01

Christal Brook. Yeah, because everyone kind

39:03

of wanted that sound for a minute, that

39:05

fretless sound, so.

39:07

At some point that you say, I don't want to be

39:09

pigeonholed into this sound, and uh.

39:11

Much later on, I took it happily for a long

39:13

time.

39:14

We take fifty dollars a week.

39:18

No, it went for for a good while, Yeah,

39:21

but it did get it did get a little tossing, yeah,

39:23

after a while, because you know when

39:26

people want you to do what you did, not what you're

39:28

going to do. It's

39:30

a different thing. Right.

39:31

That was a freaking gym and a halfway.

39:33

I gotta I gotta say

39:36

that again when people.

39:37

Well, you know, if if somebody calls you to do a session

39:40

and you're there because they want you to do what

39:42

you've already done, that's different

39:44

to what you're going what you could do. You don't get

39:46

a chance to do what you're going to do because they already

39:48

decided the sort of thing they want.

39:50

Because they're booking you off of password, not

39:52

where you're where you may be artistically

39:54

currently.

39:55

Yes, so.

39:57

Your life must be hell after voodoo.

40:01

Well that that caught some trouble, yeah, but you

40:04

know that was the amazing thing about Well I met

40:06

I met you and D on the same day, right right,

40:08

yeah, on the BB King session. Yes, and

40:11

I didn't even know he was coming, you know, no

40:13

idea. So you

40:15

walk in with him and Russ Alvado and I'm

40:17

like, what's going on here anyway? Anyway

40:20

that I lost my trainers thought there.

40:22

But well, if you're causing problems

40:25

friendlessly.

40:26

So so you know, as you know, me

40:28

and D hit it off from that session. He hear

40:30

me playing, He's like, I like that sound. I wanted

40:32

to come in. But the thing is he knew nothing

40:35

about my past. So I already had like

40:37

a career before that. But he wasn't

40:40

coming to me from Yeah,

40:43

he's just like this dude, I like what he's

40:45

doing and uh, and let's get together.

40:47

But for you, was that was that exciting

40:49

for you to kind of have the opportunity to reinvent

40:52

yourself in a different way?

40:53

Oh yeah, but did

40:55

you know who or what the

40:57

Angelo was? Because it's not like we

41:00

came. I mean, by that point, all we had was send

41:02

it on. That's all we had. We had sended on.

41:04

We didn't have see song wise, I

41:07

had heard.

41:08

Brown Sugar, Okay, so you knew about

41:10

him through.

41:11

I didn't know. I didn't know the whole album.

41:14

I didn't change. So what I knew was

41:16

this was this was two

41:19

weeks. So I always

41:21

could I always credit Voodoo's beginning the

41:23

last day of Philadelphi half life. So D'Angelo

41:28

rushes to Philadelphia the one time he was on

41:30

time. Yeah,

41:36

he he like rushed to Philly

41:40

when he got word that,

41:43

you know, a certain head wrapped lady

41:46

was in our side of town, uh,

41:49

working on the record.

41:50

She down there, she down there.

41:52

And I was like yeah, But I almost feel like,

41:55

now that I look at it, it wasn't the excitement

41:57

of like, oh, she's down there, let me come and play.

42:00

It was like, wait, she down there with y'all.

42:02

She's said that Tarik's script. What that

42:06

moment.

42:06

I don't give away all the thoughts.

42:08

It's the first and the last time.

42:09

That was like an hour earlier.

42:11

Like I didn't even ask him to come. He's like, I'm here. So

42:15

that to me was like the first day of Voodo. We knocked

42:17

the hypnotic out for our record, and then

42:19

we had like time to kill and we

42:22

were just like all right, let's let's start playing. So we

42:24

we had to test each other to see where your knowledge was or whatever,

42:26

and it's like, okay, we're gonna get along famously

42:28

because I had told you that I judged

42:31

him. I looked at it. I looked at his timblans and

42:33

they were like worn down, and I

42:35

judged him. And Bob Power is trying

42:37

to sell me on this guy. Like yo, Bob, Bob

42:40

Power wants me to drum on shit. Damn motherfucker.

42:43

He's like, Yo, there's a guy. I

42:45

think you'll love him. Man, He's like the next out Green Da

42:47

Da Day. And I was just like, R and B.

42:49

This sucks, you know, hey,

42:52

R and B, Like you know what I mean, Like I

42:55

wanted soul and not R and B. And I

42:57

looked at him. He just walked in and

42:59

because the tongue of his teams was

43:01

just it was leaning right,

43:04

I was like, no, man, this

43:06

guy's corny. So I purposely,

43:09

like, you know, I'm going to hang with my dad

43:11

for Christmas, I can't do it. So I'm not on

43:13

Brown Sugar for that reason. But then also

43:16

Ron Carter didn't want to play on a song called shit

43:18

Damn motherfucker, so they.

43:20

Decided to go that's got to get

43:22

wrong.

43:22

So Ron Carter was going to play bass

43:25

on Shitdamn motherfucker and I was going to drama

43:28

on it. And also Bob

43:30

Powers trying to get a two for the

43:33

drama song on Bob Duism

43:36

was one of the first songs that Bob Power worked on. So

43:38

me and Ron were supposed to do we did

43:41

drama, but He's like, I refused to play

43:43

on a song with that title. I will never play on

43:45

a song called that. He would never

43:47

call it shit damn motherfucker. So Bob

43:50

Powers is like, all right, I'll do the demo. So the

43:52

thing was day two,

43:55

we rented out Battery Studios to

43:58

work on Bitch right,

44:01

and then de was

44:03

just like, ViBe's not right, man, like I

44:06

you know. So for some reason they were like, yo,

44:09

we're going to the house at Hendrix, like we need a new studio.

44:11

So then we go to work

44:14

at Electric Lady for a week.

44:15

Right, this is what Russ too, Right, Yes, we're

44:18

Russ.

44:19

Famously, they had to have an intervention

44:21

and talk with me because my whole thing was like I know

44:24

my sound, I know my eq's whatever, and

44:26

Russ was just very quiet, so he just like sat in the

44:28

corner. I thought Russ was like D's boy. I didn't know Russ

44:31

was the master. And so after like four

44:33

days like D and these

44:35

managers pulled me to side like yo, man, like you

44:38

know you you know Russ is

44:40

the engineer. Just let him do what you do. And at

44:42

first I was like, what does this guy know about like my

44:45

sound like because I wanted to craft. I

44:47

didn't want to sound like and.

44:49

Rightfully, too right.

44:51

I had no idea Russ was the master, you

44:53

know what I'm saying. So we

44:56

worked for about a week and

44:59

then I came on a Sunday to work

45:01

again, and he's like, Yo, we gotta go to power

45:04

place, uh, power station station studios

45:07

and work with bb

45:09

King real quick. And I'm like, well, my drummer

45:11

one thinks, yeah, I'm gonna get you drum on it. But

45:14

you know, Steve's already

45:16

like Steve George. So when Steve Jordan

45:18

was there, then next thing I knew, me

45:21

and Angie were just babysitting little

45:23

Mike. Right, So

45:25

all right, I'm babysitting Lord. I'm asleep

45:28

while y'all like working on this song for like what two

45:30

three hours and d comes

45:33

into me wakes me up. It's like, yo, man,

45:36

yo, that

45:39

white boy is the ship.

45:42

I was like, huh, you don't understand.

45:46

He's gonna be part of our army.

45:48

Man.

45:48

He knows what he's doing.

45:49

Wow.

45:50

Now I was telling him like, yo, man, but you

45:52

know what about we had just gotten

45:55

what's his name? He did the root and Spanish

45:57

shot y. Yeah,

45:59

he he was all go in my mind, I'm

46:02

like, no, dude, Charlie like, let's stick with him.

46:04

Listen, he's just dope man's

46:06

level bass player.

46:07

It's just next level.

46:09

And I couldn't imagine because

46:12

it's not like I knew of

46:15

J Dilla sound like that, So

46:18

that wasn't even comparison, Like now you'd be like,

46:20

yo, yo, he plays just like Dyla things like that

46:24

wasn't that wasn't even our vernacular, and that for

46:26

the life of me. And I went in and looked

46:29

and I just saw this like six foot seven giant,

46:31

and it was just like, yo,

46:34

there's no way you're going to convince me this guy is

46:38

the Lord Jesus Christ whatever. And

46:41

then I played with you, so it's

46:44

yeah, man, it's for real. Like he the

46:47

way he described you was like urgent,

46:50

like he was gasping for the last breath of his

46:52

life. And I was like, for the life of me, did

46:56

I wish I'd known what happened in that session? Like

46:58

how many takes did y'all do with nobody?

47:00

Not many? Maybe two? But you

47:03

know, there

47:05

was a media connection as soon as we literally

47:09

second verse of that song where d took

47:11

the lead he was playing I think he was

47:13

playing piano and took the lead, and he

47:15

took the lead and I'm playing, I'm like, he

47:17

sounds so good, and it kind of informed

47:20

me, you know, like all of a sudden, I was like,

47:22

man, I can do yeah, and I just went

47:24

for some shit, you know. Hearing his voice

47:26

inspired me to try some Jameson

47:29

style, you know, walking around a little

47:31

bit more, playing some busy, busy bass stuff,

47:34

and I felt him react

47:36

to that immediately. Something

47:38

happened on that tune. But that was BB king

47:40

too. Wow, you know, bb

47:43

made that happen.

47:45

Do you now run into musicians

47:48

that just insist

47:50

that you play draggy or

47:53

behind the beat or those things or.

47:55

There was a little bit of that, but not much. And the

47:58

thing is, you know, as well as I do that

48:00

shit don't work. It only works in.

48:02

The right environment when we're all together.

48:04

And for me, the right environment is me you

48:07

indeed, and if Spanky was still

48:09

alive he isn't. But shocky, I

48:12

mean, it's such a profound understanding of what

48:14

that is, but we couldn't put it into woods right. It's

48:18

like a micro second management thing

48:20

when you're playing, it's just the feel

48:22

happens.

48:24

It took a big to adjust to because I

48:26

think even for me, I

48:28

saw this as my chance to escape

48:32

the what I thought

48:34

in my head was gonna be like the claws of the roots,

48:37

Like, Okay, well we're

48:39

not clearly we're not going to make a mark on our

48:42

own music, so this might be an

48:44

every man for himself.

48:45

Thing, right, right, you started to stray

48:47

a little and think.

48:48

Well, it's not like I was like, all right, let me plant

48:51

my flag elsewhere to see if

48:53

I can get out there. Like it wasn't like

48:55

the South promotion thing. But it

48:58

was also like, was this

49:00

paranoid that the way

49:02

that he wanted me to play like?

49:05

I was intrigued by the J Deller shit, but I'm

49:07

like, wait, you want me to act like I'm a

49:09

drunk three year old and you

49:11

know.

49:14

Well it's a challenge right to try and sound like you can't

49:16

play it right.

49:17

But I'm thinking, I'm like, oh man, little John's gonna

49:19

laugh at me, and this drum is gonna laugh at me. This drum is

49:21

gonna laugh at me. And so it took

49:23

it took me a good maybe

49:26

two weeks to get used to because

49:28

you got these things instantly. Yeah,

49:31

And I didn't know who to follow because you dragged

49:33

behind, but then he really drags behind you, and

49:35

I'm trying to figure out, like, well where do I

49:37

fit in between you guys? It

49:40

took like a good two weeks to.

49:44

But when that shit really kicks off of man, I

49:47

mean you're I mean you're playing,

49:50

you're on time, if not on time

49:52

in front of time, that rhythmic

49:54

tension, right. We never talked about it deeply

49:57

before, but that's what it feels like to me, because

49:59

if I'm trying to play that stuff and a

50:02

drumma will start to slow down with you right

50:05

right, then it's not working. It has to

50:07

have you know.

50:09

So here's on top of your behind and D

50:11

somewhere in the middle.

50:12

Oh yeah, we're pretty we're both behind

50:14

the deal. But but quests will

50:17

also come in. You know, you'll join us

50:19

on some things, like it might be a little nut on the high

50:21

at or one kick drum will be misplaced.

50:24

Just yeah, yeah,

50:26

he d wants me to like

50:28

my high hat always has to

50:30

be like one of my three

50:33

things, either my kick, my snare

50:35

or my high hat has to be consistent.

50:38

Yes, and then I have to divide half

50:40

my brain to drag

50:42

this in another way. But

50:44

still keep this consistent. But

50:47

then playing with DiAngelo and

50:49

Pino, DiAngelo

50:53

gets the sort of gets the glory

50:55

position of either playing right on top

50:57

of the thing or really dragging. And

51:00

before when he would draged, I'd go with him

51:03

and he would stop the song like no, no, don't go with it

51:05

where you were at, stay where you had And I'm

51:07

just like, wait, dude, like I have my own problems

51:09

and trying to figure out which limb goes which speed,

51:12

and then this guy is like slightly behind

51:14

me. But I could deal with that, but you are really

51:17

throwing me off. So it really

51:19

took. It took ten hours, and you

51:21

know, we'd spend anywhere

51:23

between six to twelve

51:27

hours consistently playing. So I

51:29

just consider that tour a myr y'all.

51:31

You're talking before y'all even hit the stage.

51:33

Yeah, no, no, this is just this is

51:35

the album this is in.

51:38

Yeah, just because it seemed like at

51:40

some point just watching y'all

51:43

during that time and watching a mirror because we shouldn't

51:45

make note that, like I don't recall a time in your

51:47

career where you've done what you did for Voodoo,

51:50

like you Paul stuff, And it seems like when

51:52

y'all got on stage, everybody,

51:54

Anthony and Hamilton, backgrounds, everybody included.

51:57

It was like spiritual.

52:00

Yes, I think that we all

52:02

came one at a time, Like first

52:04

it was D, it was D and me, it was

52:06

us three, and then we brought

52:09

James poison in and then it's

52:11

almost like you have to bring him and

52:13

Spanky started coming, so it's almost

52:15

you had to do one at a time thing and that person

52:17

had to figure out.

52:18

Like what

52:20

is going on here?

52:21

When y'all all figured it out, it must have felt

52:24

like y'all were moving as one at

52:26

some point, right.

52:27

Like that's exactly right. Yeah, it's

52:29

the most it's

52:31

yeah, I mean the Soultronics when we

52:33

had in the band.

52:35

Yo, y'alls, I still have Crazy sure

52:37

was out now the live in Stockholm

52:41

Angelo, Oh

52:43

yeah, yeah it is.

52:45

I've cleaned my house so many times out man,

52:49

y'all, Man, I love that record

52:52

a lot.

52:52

That's so rid. That is so rid.

52:55

But the funny thing was, right, you got to remember

52:57

back when we were doing this, I was already

52:59

forty forty one, right.

53:01

So you're still forty one to.

53:05

No.

53:05

But the non act doesn't crack,

53:10

whales don't fail.

53:12

There I'm gonna step off the microphone.

53:15

You can tell me.

53:16

I'm yeah, that sort

53:18

of thing is so rare. And that was the first time I've

53:21

been in great bands before, but it's the first time I'd

53:23

experienced that kind of feeling. And

53:26

as I say, I was in my forties at the time, so

53:29

you know, when we got together and there we also room with

53:31

the full band before the tour, and I heard

53:33

that band playing, I was like, these

53:35

guys don't know. These guys

53:37

do not know what I know, because you couldn't

53:40

have had enough experience to know how special that

53:42

was.

53:43

Did you have a favorite night on the Voodoo

53:45

Tour?

53:46

No, I just know I don't.

53:47

Every night.

53:48

Every night I had

53:50

Yo Man for me.

53:53

I hate I hate saying the story the

53:56

Minneapolis show. I don't

53:58

remember it all right. So I

54:01

blamed John Paroles for this. So

54:04

John Parrales, who's always been kind

54:06

of a playful thorn in

54:08

Prince's side since

54:11

like him and Prince are at the same age, he started

54:13

writing in Minneapolis at

54:15

the same time Prince came up, so he's

54:17

kind of been like the one consistent local Minneapolis

54:20

writer that you

54:22

know that Prince would sort of you

54:25

know, artists claim like, oh, I never read my reviews

54:27

or whatever, but clearly like you know, and

54:31

but he was also not afraid to tell the truth

54:33

and be like, nah, I'm not feeling this and

54:35

that that you're phoning it in whatever. So you

54:39

know, it's it's ninety nine and Voodoo

54:42

comes out and John Parrales decides

54:44

to like kind of just write a

54:48

ack no no this for the local Minneapolis

54:51

thing, like not a mock obituary,

54:53

but basically like a Prince

54:56

your numbers up and there's a new

54:59

king in town, that sort of thing, which you

55:02

know, as far as I'm concerned, both Voodoo

55:04

and Black Messiah were always love letters

55:07

to our hero and

55:09

so you know it is

55:12

that what made Prince do Rainbow Children? Well,

55:15

no, just you make my sunshine thing

55:17

and yeah, yeah that as well. So

55:21

the thing was I knew he

55:23

felt some sort of way, but it was also

55:26

so undeniably funky that he couldn't

55:28

deny it himself. So it's

55:30

like, okay, I'll give you this one, like this has

55:32

to be live changing funk for me to So

55:34

when the show came to town, you

55:37

know, Paralys was at it again, like I've

55:39

been hearing reports that this is the show of

55:42

the year, right

55:46

and so and so, of

55:48

course he summons for us to

55:50

come to Paisley Park the night before before

55:53

the show. The night before the show, right,

56:00

I did not know this. I ain't

56:02

got it. I should

56:05

have known him better. But you know again, it's

56:07

it's like, hey, it's our hero. We're gonna hang out

56:09

with our hero. So we get to Minneapolis.

56:12

We get there like midnight, and Alan

56:14

Weis was actually like y'all going out

56:16

there. I was like, yeah, well, you know, he operates

56:19

between one am and six in the morning, so let's do

56:21

it. So Robbie the

56:23

driver comes to get us at

56:26

three in the morning and we go out

56:28

there. And I

56:31

should have known him better. Yeah, he was first

56:33

thing he came in. So how does it feel?

56:35

Huh?

56:40

And so we were just like, yeah,

56:43

it feels like me, but I'm just playing.

56:47

Right.

56:48

Was he on his own? Was he?

56:49

Or did he have like he was?

56:51

Okay? So the weird thing was he was

56:55

I believe at the time he was working on what we call

56:57

the new Power Soul record and

56:59

you know he's blasted music whatever and something.

57:02

So what year is this is two thousand?

57:05

This is June of two thousand

57:08

and so we're walking down. You

57:10

know, all the hallways at Paisley

57:12

Park are super dark, and of course it's like these

57:14

lifestyles murals of him, so it

57:16

feels like three stooges where you know

57:18

the controversy, this is painted controversy

57:21

cover and you swear to God that the eyes are watching

57:23

you as because

57:26

they are right right, yeah, probably

57:28

Scooby Doode. And I stopped e and

57:30

I stopped the and I heard the

57:32

song and I'm just like, I

57:35

said, oh boy, and he's like what I

57:37

said. So, you know,

57:39

by that point, and I've made it clearer

57:42

to many Prince dot Org fans

57:44

that I am a seventy eight to

57:46

eighty eight prince person. Anything

57:49

outside of that. Yes, I love him as an artist,

57:51

but this is my era, and I've

57:53

been very vocal about like his patches, and

57:56

I don't like the new keyboards he uses and the drummer

57:58

scenes and of course he's in some loud

58:00

song and whatever it

58:03

was, Okay, No, the cameras

58:05

are watching me, so my face, I forget that I'm

58:08

not on radio anymore. And so I

58:11

was just like, let's wait it out until the fate comes on

58:13

because I don't want to. I don't want to have to do demo face.

58:16

Yeah right right right when

58:18

you like some, when you don't like some, and

58:22

so like right when the song was faded,

58:24

and then we like walked in and you

58:26

know, again I failed. I was like, hey, who,

58:29

what's you? What's this? What's you working on? He's

58:31

like some some new funk like

58:34

whatever, Like he's like.

58:38

Destroy you.

58:41

Anyway. So yeah,

58:43

he like went through the whole thing and tried

58:46

to be like, don't trust down leads and you

58:48

know, this guy's boot legacy, that guy boot

58:50

legamy, he's gonna boot leg you and steal your money, and

58:52

da da d d da da and

58:55

he would leave and De and I would just look at each

58:57

other like what's going

58:59

on here? I just want to ask you some question about

59:01

nineteen exactly.

59:04

And you know, then we like went to play,

59:06

like we went in the room to jam a little

59:08

bit, and that wasn't working

59:11

because the thing was like we had such a musical

59:13

synergy. And then to play with

59:15

someone normal, which is weird because

59:17

friends is anything but normal. Yeah,

59:19

but don't translate,

59:22

right, and so that was weird and

59:25

man like we just we left,

59:28

so we asked him, He's like, so, are you going to

59:30

come to the show tomorrow, Like will you come? And

59:33

he's like, no, I got to go to I'm

59:35

gonna go to Marrakesh. And you

59:37

know, I said, wait, you you

59:40

go to miss our show, like this is

59:42

our show is dedicated to you, like everything,

59:45

and he's like, no, I

59:47

got to go to Marrakesh. And that's

59:49

that. He never went to Marrakes. But you

59:53

know, he had all the spies

59:55

in the thing. And you know, Larry Graham

59:58

infamously left during shit damn, Like

1:00:04

he got up and left and like went out there and it

1:00:06

came back when the show was over. Ron Carter

1:00:09

left too, And

1:00:12

all I remember was there was a moment

1:00:14

during the encore where I

1:00:17

think suddenly D went from

1:00:19

bewilderment to anger. Like

1:00:22

it's like D woke up and realized, like, yo, man,

1:00:26

I think he was trying to punk us last night.

1:00:30

And you don't want to think that your hero

1:00:33

doesn't wish you, you know, like what do we

1:00:35

do to this guy? And all I

1:00:37

remember Man was like, yo,

1:00:40

man, we're

1:00:42

gonna get him. We're gonna piss all on

1:00:44

his carpet and we did the

1:00:46

most ungodly version of Lady

1:00:49

ever and Eric came out. And

1:00:51

it was even to the point where the same

1:00:54

schoolyard taunts that Prince was telling

1:00:57

Paul Peterson when he left the family, like

1:01:00

Bunk of the month, punk of the month, Like

1:01:02

we started like pe punk

1:01:04

of the month, Like like are we

1:01:06

doing this? You

1:01:08

went from Pee for the Month to Prince

1:01:12

Punk of the Month like literally in

1:01:14

his Yeah, and then and then I had

1:01:16

to get some phone calls like a week later, But for

1:01:18

me, that was like that was like

1:01:21

the best show we've ever done. I

1:01:28

hope I asked enough voodoo questions for the

1:01:30

fan base.

1:01:31

Good Voodoo

1:01:33

was my first I mean clearly was my first

1:01:35

time hearing you. But you know, for

1:01:38

you hearing you say that, you were like forty at

1:01:40

that time.

1:01:41

You know.

1:01:41

I hope artists like that hear this they understand

1:01:44

like listen, that was my first time

1:01:46

and I was, you know, twenty one, you know, twenty

1:01:48

whatever, and like that was my first

1:01:51

time really hearing about Pino

1:01:53

Palladino.

1:01:54

You know what I'm saying. So like you were to

1:01:56

me, you were a new guy, right, you know

1:01:58

what I'm saying.

1:01:59

In two Thou that generation and those

1:02:02

music. Yeah, that's a new

1:02:04

me. Yeah.

1:02:05

Were you shocked at the kind of the

1:02:08

heroes welcome that you got

1:02:11

from the musician community.

1:02:13

Yeah totally. I mean I was already

1:02:15

kind of respected in certain places,

1:02:18

you know, in the music community, but yeah,

1:02:20

to get the props at

1:02:23

that point was really Yeah, that was very exciting.

1:02:25

Can you talk about how it was different in that way? Why

1:02:28

was it different?

1:02:29

Way to feel different? Well, I guess because

1:02:31

that's the music. I really really loved it. And

1:02:33

then I was like, you know, I was always like

1:02:35

very conscientious about like

1:02:38

feeling right, you know, I wanted to feel right, and

1:02:42

when I got to play with the Inquest in that band,

1:02:44

then it was I didn't even have to think about it. It

1:02:47

just came through, you know, and that was

1:02:49

beautiful. And then yeah, just to have

1:02:51

people say, wow, that that ship sounds amazing,

1:02:54

and yeah, that's great.

1:02:56

So a notable night for me was

1:02:58

the night that we were recording Aquarius

1:03:02

for Common in Philadelphia and

1:03:05

then we took a dinner break

1:03:08

and then you got a phone call and

1:03:11

you said, immediately you said, wait, no

1:03:13

one knows I'm here, who's calling me? And

1:03:16

you step outside the room to take the phone call,

1:03:19

and then you come back in and

1:03:21

you're like, guys have an announcement. So instantly

1:03:23

I'm like, oh damn, something happened to your family, Like

1:03:26

what's going on? And

1:03:28

he's like John's

1:03:30

twistle just died of the Who, and

1:03:33

I have to go out and replace him, Like I

1:03:35

have to believe right now? What

1:03:38

can you tell me?

1:03:40

That's the most fucked up call I've ever heard of my left okay

1:03:42

coming.

1:03:42

On pretty much. And I never

1:03:44

got to ask you this question because

1:03:47

what I do know is that you had

1:03:49

to learn forty

1:03:51

one songs.

1:03:53

I don't remember the amount, but there wasn't a set list.

1:03:56

It was just learn, you know, like see

1:03:58

thes like this.

1:03:59

And that plays all the notes.

1:04:02

Yeah, so one,

1:04:05

what was your WHO? I Q

1:04:09

before that phone call?

1:04:13

Wow, I probably knew four

1:04:16

or five songs.

1:04:17

Oh wait, I wasn't expecting that. I thought you

1:04:19

used to go and say, like four or five records. See,

1:04:23

you kind of knew nothing about the Who at that point.

1:04:26

I brought some of the records when I was a kid, I bought

1:04:28

won't get fooled again. And then I

1:04:31

remember, I can't explain my

1:04:33

generation. The big hits, but I really wasn't familiar

1:04:36

with their albums for

1:04:38

some reason. I just I missed that stuff,

1:04:40

you know, I was I was a big led Zeppelin fan,

1:04:42

and I was in like progressive rock

1:04:45

like Yes and folk

1:04:48

music and stuff like that. So somehow

1:04:50

missed most of the who You and Getty Lee, Just

1:04:52

Have You and Geddy ever like him?

1:04:54

Actually yeah, yeah, but

1:04:57

uh, not that familiar with

1:04:59

with a lot of rush albums out there.

1:05:02

So they send a plane

1:05:04

to you. They sent a plane to Philadelphia.

1:05:07

Correct, No, no, I have to get a regular plane.

1:05:10

Oh okay, I thought they just the

1:05:12

bells and whistles on you. So what

1:05:15

was Do you do you remember what that week

1:05:17

was like? Because I still, for the life of me,

1:05:20

don't understand why they just didn't

1:05:23

hold off on like a week's

1:05:26

worth of shows. Like I'm sure the fan base will

1:05:28

understand. John just died. They

1:05:30

were like, no, we're still going on stage.

1:05:33

Well, the story I heard was that they wanted to cancel

1:05:36

the tour. You know, there was so

1:05:38

much gonna that was riding

1:05:40

on it. I guess they was financially

1:05:43

the cruise, you know, having committed

1:05:45

the time to it, they wanted to be able to pay everyone. So

1:05:48

the story I heard come from who.

1:05:51

But the story I heard was

1:05:53

a Pete said to the manager, what's

1:05:56

Pino doing? If you can get Pino, then

1:05:58

we can carry on, which is pretty

1:06:00

incredible. So pd I had confidence

1:06:03

in me. I

1:06:05

guess he knew me as a session player because I've worked

1:06:07

with him. Yeah,

1:06:10

So that's that's how it went. And the manager

1:06:12

phoned me up and said, look, you've heard the

1:06:14

Jonas passed away. I

1:06:17

think it was Wednesday. He said, we got a gig

1:06:19

in Hollywood Bowl on Saturday. I

1:06:21

need a yes or no?

1:06:23

You said yes, Yeah, I mean so what's

1:06:27

like? Describe your

1:06:29

cheat sheet? Describe your like how do

1:06:31

you commit all that to memory?

1:06:33

Yeah? I did have a couple of cheat sheets, just just

1:06:36

I mean, nothing that anyone else would have understood.

1:06:38

Can you read no?

1:06:40

Wow?

1:06:41

What can you read coord charts? Yeah?

1:06:43

I can follow cod shots but yeah,

1:06:45

I mean I've got better at it over the years, but I

1:06:47

really try not to. I

1:06:51

trust my ear.

1:06:52

I've always talked about before thrust

1:06:54

your ear.

1:06:54

People bore blessed with good ears.

1:06:56

Man. Wow. Yeah, there's

1:06:58

some musicians that go by feel

1:07:00

and some musicians that go by technical

1:07:05

that sort of thing.

1:07:06

Yeah, and both of those ways will work. You know, there

1:07:08

are players that can do both. They are players that can read

1:07:11

whatever you put in front of them and can also improvise.

1:07:14

But I can't read it.

1:07:16

So by that night, by

1:07:18

Saturday night, what's going through

1:07:20

your head?

1:07:21

Like?

1:07:21

Are you just cramming twenty four to seven and you're going to

1:07:23

sleep to the.

1:07:23

Song I have? Like, really, I

1:07:25

had one day in one night and

1:07:29

I just was up for twenty four hours just literally

1:07:31

headphones based, just trying to go

1:07:33

through as many songs as I could.

1:07:35

You know, what was the hardest song to do to figure

1:07:37

out?

1:07:38

Well, there wasn't one song that was really hard

1:07:40

technically because I didn't try and play what John was playing.

1:07:42

I couldn't have played a lot of those baselines because

1:07:44

his technique was so unique. I

1:07:46

couldn't. I couldn't do it. So but Pete

1:07:49

told me straight away when I got they said, just

1:07:51

learn as much as you can. And you

1:07:53

know, I don't want to be John, I want to be you.

1:07:58

So that gave me. That freed me up a little

1:08:00

bit. But having said that, there's so many iconic

1:08:02

baselines on whose songs that I

1:08:05

did have to learn, you know, a lot

1:08:07

of it notes.

1:08:08

So eventually, once you settled into the group,

1:08:10

then they realized that. But is it

1:08:12

I kind of baselines in terms of like like

1:08:15

he does this in the fourth part. Yeah,

1:08:19

and they muscle memory they expected

1:08:21

to hear those notes.

1:08:23

Kind of Yeah, And there are things that you if

1:08:25

you didn't have them in the song, you really wouldn't. It wouldn't

1:08:27

sound like a song, like melodic

1:08:29

lines and stuff. And the Who fans in the front

1:08:31

row would be mim in to the baselines as well, so they

1:08:34

know all the stuff.

1:08:36

No pressure.

1:08:37

Yeah, but I wouldn't be playing it a lot of times.

1:08:40

So how long did it take for you to

1:08:42

actually get a place of muscle memory? Like, Okay,

1:08:45

I got this.

1:08:47

Yeah, I mean I had it on the first night pretty

1:08:51

much. I pretty much knew I pretty much once

1:08:54

we've done the show, I was like, Okay, it's

1:08:56

gonna be fine.

1:08:58

Wow, Okay, are

1:09:00

you still with

1:09:03

the Who? Like I don't know what

1:09:05

they're.

1:09:05

Yeah, they're still playing. But I stopped touring with

1:09:08

them in twenty sixteen.

1:09:10

Okay, yeah, but was it hard to

1:09:12

walk away from that?

1:09:14

It was? Yeah, it was absolutely Yeah, because

1:09:16

I've been there a long time. I've been touring with them fourteen

1:09:19

years.

1:09:20

So when you commit to them and

1:09:22

I know they're not a twenty four to seven touring

1:09:26

unit, is it a thing where it's like, Okay, we have

1:09:28

you on retainer to always

1:09:30

be available.

1:09:31

No, they don't do that shit. You just get gig

1:09:34

the gig.

1:09:34

Yeah, but what if you what

1:09:40

if you decided to order D'Angelo again?

1:09:42

Yeah, right, you had that problem.

1:09:44

I did.

1:09:44

Yeah, yeah, I had taken on some

1:09:47

who shows. I didn't want to let those guys down, and then

1:09:49

d suddenly put some shows in that I couldn't

1:09:52

do. Yeah,

1:09:54

so but that all worked out.

1:09:56

Of course. You had to raise your own pino.

1:09:59

Yes, he's

1:10:03

not there, Rocco

1:10:05

Palladino. Oh yeah,

1:10:08

oh you best believe. And I hate to say

1:10:10

this, but god damn. Yeah,

1:10:13

but he's your son. Sound think you'll get offended?

1:10:16

God damn?

1:10:17

How how old is your sign?

1:10:19

Man? He's study one? Okay,

1:10:21

yeah, now do Rocco

1:10:24

is currently drumming with A

1:10:27

he's playing with usef DA.

1:10:28

Yes, you said, but he's also

1:10:30

he killed the picnic.

1:10:31

Yeah, oh, no doubt. Yes, he

1:10:33

came to the picnic and killed But Rucco's

1:10:36

here now. Actually he's playing Fabiano.

1:10:38

My daughter, my oldest daughter, is also playing in

1:10:40

the band this called J Paul j

1:10:43

A. I Yeah, Paul, Wow,

1:10:46

they're playing to Paul. Yeah,

1:10:48

okay, okay, yeah, so Fabiano

1:10:50

and Rucco are playing with him at the moment. He's playing

1:10:52

at the mine tonight.

1:10:54

This is so weird.

1:10:55

It's like those are kind of I mean, maybe not as

1:10:57

much Paul, but definitely use those are all kinds

1:10:59

of children love voodoo.

1:11:01

Yeah, yeah, I think so, and I think so with Jay

1:11:03

as well. Yeah, yeah, I definitely inspired by

1:11:05

that stuff.

1:11:07

That is crazy. I remember meeting your

1:11:09

kids when they were away.

1:11:10

They were Radio City when we played

1:11:12

in two thousands. You know, Rocco is like six

1:11:15

or something.

1:11:15

I wondered like, did they pay

1:11:18

attention?

1:11:19

Oh yeah, you think so. That's

1:11:22

what happened to Rocco.

1:11:25

So for him seeing that show Radio City Music

1:11:27

Art, I.

1:11:27

Think definitely that and also just being around

1:11:30

me when when I was doing that music.

1:11:33

Yeah, the Rocco is like

1:11:35

Rocco plays with di'angelo. That's how

1:11:37

good Rocco Palladino is. And

1:11:41

yeah wow, that's just.

1:11:43

How many children do you have?

1:11:45

Yeah?

1:11:46

Fabiana, my oldest is a keyboar player, songwriter,

1:11:48

singer, songwriter. She has a record coming out soon. And

1:11:50

then Giancarla is also very

1:11:53

musical, but she actually doesn't work in the music

1:11:55

business. And then Rocco does work in the

1:11:57

music business. Yeah. Yeah,

1:11:59

I'm so lucky.

1:12:01

How do you divide your now

1:12:03

that you're your own planet and

1:12:05

you're not just like, you know, just just

1:12:08

a session yet, right, So

1:12:11

like, at what point did you decided to establish

1:12:14

your brand and do these like records and all

1:12:16

this.

1:12:16

Yeah, that pretty much came through round

1:12:19

about twenty eighteen. I suppose that when when

1:12:22

we started recording the first record I've done

1:12:25

an album with John Legend with Blake

1:12:27

Mills producing.

1:12:29

I didn't know you on that record.

1:12:31

Yeah, well and Chris too. Yeah. He called me

1:12:33

and Chris to play on that record, and that's how I met

1:12:35

Blake.

1:12:36

Yeah. That's that's such a it's weird living

1:12:38

in kind of in the non uh

1:12:42

what do you call it, non tangible record way,

1:12:44

Yes, where I don't recredits anymore.

1:12:46

I just listened to it on Spotify, so I know.

1:12:49

When I was going with your history, I'm like, wait, you're on that, You're

1:12:51

on that. Yeah, I didn't realize you on that record.

1:12:53

Okay, So talk about

1:12:56

your work with the Drumheads

1:12:58

and playing because you guys just

1:13:00

on a whole nother level of

1:13:03

musicianship.

1:13:04

Well that's with Chris and Sharky and yeah,

1:13:07

I mean that's crazy. I mean Chris, as you

1:13:09

know, played with D. I think you recommended him for

1:13:11

that when you could do it right.

1:13:13

Yeah.

1:13:13

Yeah, so that's where Chris

1:13:15

met Sharky and me and Kristen Sharky

1:13:18

would hang and hit it off obviously.

1:13:21

Then to cut a long story

1:13:23

short, we were on the twenty twelve

1:13:25

tour with D and Chris had

1:13:27

a gig at the Billboard

1:13:30

Live in Tokyo and we

1:13:32

were going to take Pooky with us, right the keyboard

1:13:35

player and a horn player.

1:13:37

I can't remember who it was, but anyway,

1:13:39

the day before we due to fly out after

1:13:41

the after the tour with D,

1:13:44

Pooky said he couldn't make it, So we

1:13:46

lost a keyboard player and then we lost the horn player. He pulled

1:13:49

out too, so it's just me, Sharky and Chris

1:13:51

and we had to fly out to Japan and we played

1:13:53

like three nights at the Billboard

1:13:56

Live. So that was the start

1:13:58

of the Drumhead. Shit. Really,

1:14:01

we just played as a trio, which is what we went

1:14:04

back to the Blue Note recently.

1:14:06

Now, is it intimidating playing

1:14:09

in a combo that doesn't have a lead

1:14:11

singer or doesn't have someone for you to hide behind?

1:14:15

Yeah? I love it. I love it,

1:14:18

especially with that lineup because it's it's unique.

1:14:20

Well, we played so many different styles

1:14:23

of music, and well, you know, Chris

1:14:25

is just unbelievable. All kinds

1:14:27

of weird and wonderful stuff can

1:14:29

come from him.

1:14:32

It's my guess that you are the anchor

1:14:35

of definitely that unit. Because

1:14:38

when I last saw you guys at the Blue Note, you

1:14:41

were the one that was tapping your book constantly, like

1:14:43

you tap your foot and your chin goes up and

1:14:45

down, and so I realized, like, okay,

1:14:48

so you give christ

1:14:52

freedom to do what he wants to do, and

1:14:55

you have to keep that in your head. So you're

1:14:57

the anchor of it. I know, if it's confusing

1:14:59

for me, it has to be crazy

1:15:02

for you to keep counting all those things because

1:15:04

Chris is such a radical.

1:15:06

Yeah. I'm

1:15:08

with that lineup too, you know, I feel

1:15:10

like those two guys of the virtuosi and

1:15:14

that's never been my forte.

1:15:15

You know.

1:15:15

It's so I like

1:15:17

that place in the middle there trying to you know,

1:15:19

enable, just enable

1:15:22

the music so that they can do their thing. I

1:15:25

mean not purely unselfish. I mean

1:15:27

I care about me too a little bit. But

1:15:30

yeah, it's really interesting. And when Chris goes

1:15:32

for some of that stuff, you

1:15:34

know, you just have to be ready to go with it wherever

1:15:37

it's going, be very

1:15:39

kind of fluid and malleable. You

1:15:41

know.

1:15:42

It's question I think fans would like to know. Have

1:15:45

you ever had a session in which was like I

1:15:48

gotta get through this, like in

1:15:50

terms of complexity or just

1:15:53

a producer that is

1:15:55

driving you to the limit.

1:15:58

No, not really. I had one producer

1:16:00

I won't mention the name of one time that I

1:16:02

figured that if he kind of made me angry, I

1:16:04

would play better. Yeah.

1:16:07

It was kind of weird so that people still do

1:16:09

psychological Yeah, He's like, what's the matter

1:16:11

with you? Can't you do any better than that?

1:16:13

And I was like what Cantlice

1:16:16

asked, was this the eighties, nineties or two

1:16:18

thousands or.

1:16:19

It was after Voodoo, right?

1:16:26

Yeah, I was like, I'm ready to.

1:16:31

Wait can I ask a question, including you Steve,

1:16:33

like on sessions like voodoo, which are notoriously

1:16:36

went on for years, like does

1:16:39

it become too like? Does

1:16:41

it does the dragging out of it? Does the frustration

1:16:43

of that taking forever? Does it become a thing?

1:16:45

Or is it not?

1:16:46

I've never been in the studio that long my

1:16:48

life like it. You know, you read

1:16:50

about it, and it's just like we're not allowed

1:16:53

to talk about this. That's fine too, No, No, I

1:16:55

just I'm just I'm fascinated.

1:16:57

My answer is quick. You know, I

1:16:59

was selfishly say that I have the best seat

1:17:01

in the house. So I've never

1:17:04

had a drought, a D'Angelo drought,

1:17:06

and I feel bad for you people that only get your

1:17:08

you know, d'angela fixed once every ten

1:17:11

to twenty years, whereas

1:17:14

you know, I still got shited on this computer that

1:17:16

the world's never going to hear again. But you

1:17:19

know, I'm satisfied, but I also

1:17:22

feel frustrated that it

1:17:24

takes forever. But it's certainly

1:17:26

worth it. But like you know, it's weird in

1:17:29

terms of preference, though I like Black

1:17:31

Messia a little better. I don't know if it's because

1:17:33

it's last or whatever, but just like I

1:17:36

have the time of my life with Voodoo. But

1:17:40

for me, there's something about the

1:17:43

moments in catching til it's

1:17:45

done yes or uh

1:17:48

oh God, especially oh God,

1:17:50

the way the way we know life. You

1:17:53

know, we did Another Life? Did

1:17:56

we do that without planning?

1:17:59

You know? I played on the later you and d played on that.

1:18:02

I feel like we went

1:18:04

okay, so was it till it's done where we all had to

1:18:06

do it together?

1:18:07

Something we played till it's done together?

1:18:09

Yeah? Okay, yeah, Another Life

1:18:11

is literally it

1:18:14

was just unplanned. It wasn't

1:18:16

like, hey, what's that part? Okay, do you get it in twelve

1:18:18

bars? It was just like he

1:18:20

just started playing it and then like and

1:18:24

I was like, okay, this should be like a bridge or

1:18:26

something. Okay, I'm gonna do a turnaround for two bars, and he

1:18:28

just like it. The

1:18:32

synergy was was

1:18:34

otherworldly.

1:18:35

Well you guys really have that.

1:18:37

Yeah, we have to be cool because at the very

1:18:39

beginning, in the very beginning,

1:18:42

I think there was like unspoken tension there that

1:18:45

we didn't resolve for like four or five years.

1:18:47

Yes, and the first thing he plays me is like sugar

1:18:50

Daddy, and it kind of in

1:18:52

a taunting way. Not a taunting way, but

1:18:55

it's almost like the ex wife,

1:18:58

you know, the husband's

1:19:01

showing you the new girlfriend to the ex wife,

1:19:04

and I'm like, how am I? How am I supposed

1:19:06

to compete with Gatson? With James

1:19:08

Gatson playing his lap?

1:19:11

Yeah?

1:19:11

And the story, yeah, the story of that

1:19:13

is basically, he was just all right, play

1:19:15

with the song, and he's like just sitting there like that, okay,

1:19:18

okay, so I'll do that and then all right, let's

1:19:20

roll it and they're like, no, we

1:19:22

got it. He's like, no, no, no, I was. I was hitting my leg

1:19:24

and he's like, no, no, that was perfect.

1:19:26

And I'll tell you what really happened there,

1:19:28

something like that. But James was just drum

1:19:32

checking, right, he was just trump track

1:19:34

and playing a bass, strumming the high and tapping his legs

1:19:36

like that, and d said, keep

1:19:38

playing that, James.

1:19:40

Keep playing that right, and just fell until by accident.

1:19:42

Found a bait. I just went dump dump, don't dump,

1:19:44

don't.

1:19:46

Right, And then literally I'm

1:19:49

like, how am I supposed to compete with that shit?

1:19:51

And so yeah, but your thing is so

1:19:53

unique of me too, Betray my Heart.

1:19:55

We recorded that song in yeah

1:19:58

seven do you realize that ninety seven.

1:20:01

Right, I remember brought

1:20:03

that one back to life. So Steve

1:20:07

any Pino moments.

1:20:10

Oh man, I did want to ask you about

1:20:13

you were a part of the one of the Simon

1:20:15

and garlf Uncle reunion tours

1:20:18

or maybe it was just a show or two at the Garden

1:20:20

or something.

1:20:21

I'm not I can't remember that

1:20:23

one.

1:20:23

Yeah, it was all too two thousand and

1:20:26

what was it five or something? Yes?

1:20:27

So what was that like to work with with Paul

1:20:30

and I mean to be in such a weird kind

1:20:32

of setting, I mean, and those baselines

1:20:34

are also very iconic.

1:20:36

Absolutely? Is that Carol Ka who did

1:20:38

a lot of that stuff originally?

1:20:40

Maybe she did some of it. Joe Osborne,

1:20:43

right was the was the l a session guy back

1:20:45

in back in the days and did a lot of that stuff

1:20:47

only living boy in New York? You know that iconic

1:20:49

based on man? Yeah,

1:20:52

So was that a fun gig or it really

1:20:54

was? It was amazing for me because the Simon

1:20:56

and girlf Uncle album with Cecilia

1:20:59

I become a bridge over trouble water. Yeah, that

1:21:01

album was so big for me when I was before

1:21:03

I even knew I was going to be a musician. So

1:21:06

to come around full circle and get to play live

1:21:08

with those guys.

1:21:09

Wasn't the base Yeah?

1:21:10

They the baselines are so kind

1:21:13

of penoish in a lot of that music,

1:21:15

you know, there's a lot of.

1:21:17

But but yeah, I mean very melodic though.

1:21:19

Yeah. Yeah, and it was a fantastic band.

1:21:22

Jim Caltoner was on drums.

1:21:25

What's it like playing with him?

1:21:27

Tremendous man, hero, incredible

1:21:29

man earl. Yeah, you should get him on here?

1:21:35

What an edge, what a legend? Yes,

1:21:38

it was just a fun too. And then of course

1:21:40

we would you know, pull pull

1:21:43

an audience. So wow.

1:21:45

We would do two sound checks pretty much every

1:21:47

day. Yeah,

1:21:50

one for each of them then one together.

1:21:51

Wait.

1:21:52

Really like they were divided as

1:21:55

a you know, not necessarily divided, just they

1:21:57

had particular things that they wanted in the sound

1:21:59

check.

1:22:00

So with the Who and with Paul Simon, didn't

1:22:02

you also end up doing being part of some

1:22:04

studio recordings as well, albums

1:22:06

that they were putting out.

1:22:07

I did a Paul Simon album Surprise, but that was

1:22:10

just Paul, Yeah, he wasn't that Simon golf right?

1:22:12

And the Who?

1:22:13

Yeah, I did the last record Who did, which

1:22:15

which was a really good record.

1:22:17

Actually, what was I like to work with Pete Townsend

1:22:19

in that in the.

1:22:20

Studio, work with him over

1:22:22

the years in that environment. Pizza absolute

1:22:25

genius. Man, He's incredible. It's

1:22:28

just great being around him, great playing music

1:22:30

with him.

1:22:31

I want to skip a little bit ahead. Can you talk

1:22:33

about working on the side rock record with

1:22:36

John? You didn't play

1:22:39

bass on? You only did it live? No.

1:22:40

I did some other record, but not much of it,

1:22:43

like maybe a couple of tracks, because that was kind

1:22:45

of during the pandemic. I think you record a lot of.

1:22:47

That stuff really okay,

1:22:50

because my shock was that, you know,

1:22:52

for those that don't like the side rock record

1:22:55

for John Mayer was like his

1:22:58

version of the yacht rock. Yes, like

1:23:01

if he had he released a record in eighty three

1:23:03

to eighty four like that period, what

1:23:06

would he sound like? Which all

1:23:08

of you, all the musicians on that

1:23:10

record didn't sound like themselves.

1:23:12

But yeah, well I only played

1:23:14

a few tracks. I sort of let you down on that woman.

1:23:17

But did even the songs you played

1:23:19

on, did you have to unsound

1:23:22

like yourself?

1:23:24

No, not at all. No. Those songs

1:23:26

that I played on were ones that he

1:23:29

did before he went in the studio to do that record.

1:23:31

So they were just a random one off songs that

1:23:33

that he wanted to record anyway.

1:23:35

Okay, so when he went in to do the.

1:23:37

Full album with Sean Hurley

1:23:39

on bass and uh uh Aaron

1:23:43

on drums, Yeah, I wasn't around for that.

1:23:46

I see questions, even

1:23:55

conversations. I

1:23:58

was we can take your ball commercial

1:24:00

right now? When when when

1:24:03

this show is happening. Phones are down,

1:24:05

so I'm not getting text to

1:24:09

stop. It's like, you're

1:24:13

gonna let me know. I'm I'm under the impression that eight

1:24:15

o'clock is when we stop this.

1:24:19

We're trying to get to Fine.

1:24:21

You're gonna communicate that to me. We don't

1:24:23

get any dating to each other.

1:24:25

No, I called you.

1:24:26

I didn't know your phone.

1:24:28

Off.

1:24:29

Your phone, my phone is off. I

1:24:31

turned my phones off and my my text all

1:24:34

that stuff is off. Sorry, I

1:24:36

was just frustrated. I'm like, okay, I thought

1:24:39

I was asking too many questions.

1:24:40

We're all about punctuality.

1:24:41

We're very concerned about Peno's next gig. Clearly

1:24:46

has to be at the gig, but

1:24:48

it's just let me know. Okay, I

1:24:51

didn't know that. I'm sorry.

1:24:52

I already told him we're gonna be late, so okay, we're good.

1:24:54

Well let's wrap it all right.

1:24:56

Also, don't ask you know what the gig is a big secret,

1:24:58

So there going on, we don't know what gig

1:25:00

it is.

1:25:01

We don't know what it is.

1:25:01

Well I don't you might because can we follow you to

1:25:04

this gig? Do

1:25:07

I want to follow you to this gig?

1:25:10

M I could said.

1:25:13

The last time you told me about a gig, I went to go see.

1:25:15

I wound up playing the gig and the mushrooms that kicked in.

1:25:19

That was the hell of a day.

1:25:22

All I wanted to do was watch my idol drum

1:25:25

and then suddenly that call me like you learn

1:25:27

the show? Yes, COVID.

1:25:28

So I

1:25:31

just didn't know about the mushroom part of that.

1:25:33

That's well yeah, but then you know, I've got guys,

1:25:35

the mushrooms that kicked in.

1:25:37

Man, if you're around tomorrow nights or

1:25:39

you got any time tomorrow, I'm in the studio with Blake

1:25:42

over in Sound City.

1:25:43

Really love to have you. I'm finally glad

1:25:45

that Blake, of all people, Blake,

1:25:48

the way that he talks about Voodoo's

1:25:50

like his old dream. So

1:25:53

the fact that he finally connected with you. I

1:25:56

know one, you know is his dream to connect with

1:25:58

the Also, I'm sure I'm that's

1:26:00

happening. No, well,

1:26:02

I think I'm gonna cut it so that Peter

1:26:05

can get to his session or

1:26:08

we.

1:26:08

Are legend in the building who actually still works.

1:26:15

No, I will say that, you

1:26:17

know it's it's your mind.

1:26:20

You make you make us all play better,

1:26:22

you make us listen better, and you know for that, I

1:26:24

thank you.

1:26:24

Man, and thank you so much every

1:26:27

race.

1:26:28

Everybody, Now

1:26:31

get out of here and go to your gig.

1:26:33

This is.

1:26:35

You know, hey,

1:26:41

thank y'all be listening to The Quest Love Supreme.

1:26:44

This podcast is hosted by an Afro, a

1:26:46

mouth, a rapper, an engineer,

1:26:49

and a man with too many jobs a k a.

1:26:51

A Mere Quest Love.

1:26:51

Thompson, Why You A Saint Clair, Fonte Coleman,

1:26:54

Sugar, Steve Mandel and unpaid

1:26:56

Bill Sherman.

1:26:58

The executive producers who

1:27:00

get paid the big bucks.

1:27:01

Amir Quest Love Thompson, Sean g and

1:27:03

Brian Calhoun ask them for money.

1:27:06

Produced by the people who do all the real

1:27:08

work Brittany Benjamin, Jake Payne

1:27:11

and Yes Shy of Saint Clair. Edited

1:27:13

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1:27:17

and those who approve the real work. Produced

1:27:19

for iHeart by Noel Brown and Mike

1:27:21

John And don't forget man,

1:27:24

it's making me sound good right now because up

1:27:26

too. Audio engineering

1:27:28

by Graham Gibson at Iheart's La

1:27:30

Studio, Thanks Sean.

1:27:34

West.

1:27:34

Love Supreme is a production of iHeart

1:27:36

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1:27:40

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