0:00

Questlove Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

0:04

Hi.

0:05

This is Sugar Steve from Questlove Supreme. It's

0:07

April, which is Jazz appreciation months,

0:10

so we are running some selections from the QLs

0:12

archives from artists who make some jazz

0:14

music. This is a pre Pandemic twenty

0:16

twenty conversation with Esperando Spaldi,

0:19

who has become one of the.

0:20

New stars of jazz. In this interview,

0:22

Esperanza.

0:22

Talks about the real Portland, Oregon,

0:25

learning how to play jazz at a high level, and

0:27

the neurological benefits of certain rhythms.

0:30

This is a deep and cosmic hour long

0:32

chat. Enjoy yo yo yo yo

0:34

yo yo ya.

0:37

You're good at spontaneity,

0:39

making it up.

0:40

Supremo, Sir, Suprema.

0:43

Roll call, Suprema su

0:46

su Supremo. Roll call Supremo

0:49

s Supremo. Role

0:51

call, Suprema s

0:54

Supremo.

0:55

Roll a Prodigy. Yeah,

0:57

win to Berkeley. Yeah me

1:00

Jack JB. I'm talking

1:02

to.

1:04

Supremo, Suprema.

1:07

Roll called, Suprema son

1:09

something Supremo.

1:11

Roll call. My name is Sugar.

1:13

Yeah, I have a question about jazz. Yeah

1:15

for double bass, Yeah, you

1:17

need double hands.

1:20

Supreme Supremo,

1:23

roll cal Suprema Supremo

1:26

roll.

1:27

I'm unpaid, Bill don't

1:29

give no fucks.

1:31

Yeah, by his book, Yeah,

1:33

mixtape

1:34

looks Suprema

1:38

Supremo.

1:39

Roll call Suprema, So

1:42

Supremo roll.

1:44

What's your name now?

1:45

Yeah?

1:45

For a spell in your body? Yeah, I

1:47

can make it for you quick yeah, or.

1:54

Supremo Supremo

1:58

Roll Suprema Supremo.

2:09

Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to a weird

2:11

episode of Court Love Supreme.

2:14

It is raining outside the bomb cyclone.

2:16

All I can say was that Laia, Bill and

2:19

I left from the same destination, but

2:21

I decided to violate some traffic

2:24

laws to get here in time because

2:26

our guest today has to be out with the quickness.

2:29

So Steve insisted that we do the theme

2:31

without Bill and Laia.

2:34

Yeah yeah, he insisted. Why because they

2:36

got to learn right, that's absolutely cruel,

2:38

or they can overdub it later. No, we

2:41

never.

2:41

We never overdubbed the theme anyway.

2:44

Ladies and gentlemen, this is Couest Love

2:46

Supreme. So we're joined by the

2:49

exquisite, the remarkable, the

2:51

ever expansive, the gift that you already

2:53

introduced me.

2:54

Yeah, my fault.

2:55

We already said Sugar Steve, the original,

2:58

the inspiring, one of the cool, prolific

3:01

creatives and music today, and most

3:03

importantly, she's a native of

3:06

one of my all time favorite

3:08

cities on Earth, Portland,

3:10

Oregon. Yeah, ladies and gentlemen,

3:12

please give it up for.

3:19

So are you doing.

3:21

After all that? I'm good settling? Settling?

3:24

You're settling?

3:25

Yeah, And I reflect back for you to

3:27

you everything you just said about me. Yeah,

3:29

I'm grateful.

3:30

I'm bad with I'm

3:33

learning to accept implements

3:36

at a new place in my life. I

3:38

read the Gene Keys book. I'm learning to accept.

3:40

For years you've been telling you to accept.

3:43

It's hard to accept compliments.

3:44

I agree. Are you good or bad with compliments?

3:46

I just let them roll and often bounce

3:48

them back to be real. Alsolet

3:51

figure you can't perceive it if you don't hold it.

3:53

You know, I want you to hold the compliments.

3:55

Yes, hear all those things?

3:56

Okay, I take that.

3:58

Can I sit closer to you?

3:59

You sound prett great?

4:00

Based on his.

4:01

Introduction, what's sitting

4:03

closer going to do?

4:04

I don't know, yeah exactly.

4:06

HR like some em

4:08

and off.

4:10

Normally like I know my guests like the back

4:13

of my hand when they come to the show. But

4:16

I can't help but notice that in

4:19

your bio and your wiki bio, they

4:24

had a factoid in there that kind of took me back,

4:28

which for me, like

4:30

the idea of Portland organ and

4:33

the words gang activity never

4:35

seemed to mix.

4:38

That's because it's the Portland of now you're

4:40

trying to translate it. Also if you come from like New York

4:42

or Baltimore or LA I

4:44

think gang activity in Portland is like a little

4:47

paper cup that you get by the cooler at the office,

4:49

you know, su Price, Yeah,

4:51

But I.

4:51

Mean the way that we're trying to paint it was like, you know, music

4:54

was your salvation.

4:55

There was gang activity in the neighborhood, and so

4:57

am I to believed that there's no differference

5:00

between Portland, Oregon and.

5:02

No, there's Portland is just like Compton.

5:04

I mean, if you're growing up

5:06

and sleeping in the bathtub because there are guns outside

5:08

and you've never been to another city, it feels

5:10

it feels imminent, it feels dangerous,

5:12

it feels scary. And that was the reality

5:14

for a few years growing up and in the Northeast while I

5:17

was raised. But you know, comparatively

5:19

to some other cities. I think we had it mild,

5:22

but people were filing. They were wiling.

5:24

Okay, but that's the thing.

5:25

The fact that you had it it all shocks me because

5:28

people are genuinely jaw dropped

5:31

when I tell them that

5:34

Portland organ is hands down my favorite

5:36

city on Earth.

5:37

Why is it your favorite city?

5:38

More than half my record collection comes from there,

5:41

So no, no, no, I'm just saying, like.

5:44

We do love music.

5:45

Well, the thing is, your

5:47

record dealers really don't know the value of certain

5:49

things. So Portland is the

5:51

place that like Japanese record

5:53

dealers fly to well to

5:55

come and buy records and then they sell them

5:58

back to me.

5:58

I'm in a thousand bucks,

6:02

I do that's do advintage clothing just for the record

6:04

as well. No, no, yeah,

6:10

it's a trip. It's like everybody just figured it out.

6:12

But that reality that you're talking about was like our

6:14

secret because we were provincial. I

6:16

mean, it's still kind of you always

6:19

knew about Ireland, like didn't know that the world

6:21

was really looking at Portland like that, you know, to.

6:23

Like beat makers and whatnot.

6:25

I would lead them to Austin, which

6:27

is my second favorite city. But I sent them down south,

6:30

far away from my dodain of

6:33

Portland, Oregon.

6:34

So what was your childhood like? Did

6:36

you grow up in a musical family or No.

6:39

I grew up with a single working mother and

6:41

a big brother, and I grew up

6:44

just in a funky neighborhood.

6:46

It was.

6:47

I didn't know that it was grimy, because that's all that

6:49

I had, But I know that we weren't allowed to go

6:51

outside because it felt dangerous,

6:53

you know, after the street lights came

6:55

on, we had to stay in. And

6:57

I remember, I

7:00

just remember wanted to always be at the piano and always wanted

7:02

to compose. And when my mother took the dogs

7:04

for a walk, I would make her sing harmony with me.

7:06

That's what I remember my childhood. Kinds

7:11

of freaking harmony. Yes, yes, nothing I could

7:13

hear. What age is that?

7:15

Because I know you're a phenom in that way with bus

7:18

Yeah, I mean.

7:18

It's I don't know if I'm a phenom. I've worked

7:21

a lot at stuff when I was

7:23

a kid. But yeah, very musical, I mean

7:25

it, honestly, I don't

7:27

remember they

7:29

sang. Yeah. She's from a generation where everybody could

7:31

play piano, could play piano and read piano

7:34

music, you know, so for me, it was

7:36

just like anything that I heard on the radio

7:38

or on television and end credits I would go find

7:40

at the piano and that was the beginning of my compositional

7:44

journey.

7:44

Can you remember the first record

7:47

that you purchased?

7:49

Oh, it was M.

7:53

You're Born in eighty four?

7:54

Don't You Give Me No

7:59

Tell a Little Bit of Love?

8:01

It was probably Sorry to Let

8:03

You Down. It was probably Roomski Cours

8:07

That's what it was

8:09

though, and maybe some Chibo Matto. I was really

8:11

into Chibo Matto when I was a kids. I probably bought

8:13

an early Chipo Mato record too.

8:19

Well.

8:19

I went to like a freaky arts high school, so you know, we

8:21

were in talls.

8:22

You know, wait, how old were you when you brought your

8:24

first record?

8:25

M Maybe twelve? That

8:28

was how I could afford music because they would be in the bins

8:30

for fifty cents, you know. So you go, you see

8:32

the cool cover, then you get to try it out and see if you want it.

8:34

You know, ninety four ninety five, this when you.

8:36

Brought ninety six? Yeah

8:39

something, thats okay? Yeah,

8:41

what with your first record?

8:43

My first record is just actually nerdy.

8:47

I did the one thing please station. No,

8:51

it's the worst, but I have no shame in my game.

8:55

You know, like when especially seventies kids one,

8:57

my parents didn't believe in babysitters. Qualified

9:00

Okay, I love it you No, it's not I'm

9:03

not doing the preference saying that my parents

9:05

didn't babysitters.

9:06

I wasn't allowed to talk to strangers, and.

9:09

You know, I had I had an afro that

9:11

rival with yours as a five year old. So

9:13

of course, you know, like the whole

9:15

primitive, exotic way old white

9:17

women come up and

9:20

buy me stuff. I wasn't allowed to ask for strangers

9:22

for anything. And this

9:25

woman comes up to me. Your name is Ellie, and she's like

9:28

something, I say, records, so and

9:31

then she got a napkin and finn and

9:34

she took my order down. And then the next

9:36

night came back with the Fisher Price record player

9:39

what and she gave me my first three

9:41

records, which was which.

9:45

Have questions about that, right, like,

9:48

just how that paints your expectation on the

9:50

world. Do you just expect to ask

9:52

some white ladies show up? But

9:54

that's kind of beaut I love that. I

9:56

love that. I love that

9:58

in right, should

10:00

be this White Lady?

10:03

Did you talk like that? White Lady?

10:06

Particularly child no

10:08

contractions, just like I cannot do that?

10:10

White Lady was the record she purchased

10:12

me. I have a shame.

10:14

I don't know why I liked's

10:16

Bad Blood. I

10:20

don't

10:26

bad Blood? Uh

10:29

one of these nice by the Eagles

10:31

song that subsequently scared me, the

10:37

uh Rufus and Shaka Khans

10:40

dance with Me. I

10:46

think I got Looking through the Windows by

10:49

the Jackson five and.

10:50

It's all this, all this

10:52

all explains quite a bit, actually, And

10:58

my fifth record was the Fifth

11:00

Dimension version of Love Hangover, which was

11:03

out way before Diana Ross's version.

11:10

What was the first one you physically bought? Not a white

11:12

lady bought for you.

11:18

I got a good report card in the third

11:20

grade, so I my

11:23

uncle gave me five For five bucks,

11:25

you could buy the Jackson's

11:28

Destiny Ah track. She

11:33

could buy

11:35

and Switches It Switches.

11:38

Oh you're right there with me.

11:39

Motherfuckers

11:41

and Switches Switches debut album.

11:49

Yeah, you could buy a tracks for like to

11:51

nineteen two thousand.

11:54

Do you know what an a track is? I

11:56

have the Mad Hatter on a track for no reason,

11:59

just just to around it's okay.

12:01

Yeah, I mean, Esperanja is an old

12:03

soul.

12:04

She is anyway,

12:09

I have memories that predate my birth. I

12:11

do. I'm holding them,

12:17

Esperanza. Hi, I'm

12:19

here.

12:20

How old were you this

12:23

show?

12:24

All right?

12:24

So how did you actually

12:26

discover instruments? And what is

12:28

your instrument of choice? Because you do everything,

12:31

You sing well, you play bass

12:33

well, you do piano,

12:35

what like, what is your I'm.

12:36

Starting to think that the instrument is my

12:39

life, you know, those are the details.

12:42

Yeah, no, I mean it's true. I've

12:44

been thinking a lot about just the potency of word

12:46

and sound anywhere that we are,

12:49

and trying to hold my existence,

12:51

like my interfacing with people as the instrumental

12:54

exchange, because i know the power

12:56

that sound has, and I've

12:58

been so focused on this, like I got

13:00

shit. I put the hours and like be able to do the things,

13:03

and recently I'm like, damn, but there's already people

13:05

who can do that. You know, there's already that masterful

13:07

bass player that's already taken it to the limit. There's

13:09

that massive vocalist who's taken it all the way. Now

13:12

I'm thinking about, like, what is the practice

13:14

to make every sound that I make and interaction

13:17

that I make like a beautiful performance in

13:19

conversation.

13:21

This actually reminds me of something I read and might take

13:23

Garci's book, Prince's ex Wife. She

13:25

said that he told her that to live every day

13:27

like a work of art. And that's what that

13:29

sounds like.

13:30

I am really a fan of that. Yeah,

13:32

as a practice.

13:33

Practice is

13:36

sounds so free.

13:37

I don't even comprehend right now.

13:40

Well, also this and I like to think I'm an okay musician.

13:43

You well, you're probably doing that. I'm

13:45

just coming to the consciousness of it. I think a lot of this. Wayne

13:47

short a quote when he talks about the premise

13:49

of this philosophy, this Buddhism Lily practices,

13:51

and he said, you know, with it, you

13:53

get to create value out of everything

13:56

that's happening. And I think that's very much what we do

13:58

as improvisers when we're in a musical space,

14:00

like whatever the raw ingredients are in the studio

14:02

with the song sketch, you activate

14:05

the creative powers to turn that into a thing.

14:07

So he talks about applying that to everyday life,

14:09

and he says, because if you're not practicing that, what's

14:12

practicing you?

14:15

And that's of course, but

14:19

that's.

14:19

That's what we've been practicing as artists, right, We've been

14:21

practicing this creative capacity to take

14:24

nothing or take fragments

14:26

and make something like that's the alchemy

14:28

of making art. So these days,

14:31

just you ask, that's what I'm focused

14:33

on. That's the instrument that I want to study,

14:35

practice and master.

14:37

I gotta say that high

14:39

five. When I first

14:42

got to know you, I guess

14:44

you could say we known each other at least over.

14:46

Ten years, right, Yeah, isn't that wild?

14:48

By two thousand and seven, two eight, you're

14:51

ten years ago, you're very much Yeah, a

14:53

little over ten years ago. You're

14:55

very much like the character weak

14:59

bleek Gillia in Mobile

15:01

or Blues, because I

15:04

remember that was Denzel's

15:06

character.

15:07

Is Mike Lee's moment I buy the same dress for both

15:09

my girlfriends?

15:10

Yes, dress?

15:13

Shut shut up?

15:16

Anyway, No,

15:18

my point was we

15:21

changed numbers. I called you and

15:24

you're like, hey, I'm rehearsing right now, you

15:26

know, hit me back. And then I called like two

15:28

hours later, You're like, yeah, now I'm rehearsing.

15:31

And by the seventh time, I was like,

15:34

she's She's

15:37

like the only person I knew that forhearse.

15:39

Longer than you was friends.

15:42

No, no, what's his name? Jazz

15:45

asphone player?

15:46

Who?

15:48

David uh David Murray.

15:51

David Murray told me.

15:52

That he's just on an average

15:54

he practices ten hours.

15:56

That's madness. Yeah, I don't. But

15:59

just quickly the plug for an album

16:01

with terryln Carrington Jerry Al David Murray.

16:03

That's an amazing album for the record, No bass

16:05

because Jerry An's playing all the bass. But anyway back

16:08

to us, yes, yes, the red dress.

16:10

But yeah, I love my dress.

16:12

Thank you guys. And I remember every time I will call

16:14

you, you were on a treadmill. Yeah

16:17

that literally, I'm

16:19

like, yeah, I'm on the treadmill right now,

16:22

and he still wants to talk. He still breathing the whole.

16:25

Yeah.

16:31

At nighttime, I'm doing twelve twelve

16:33

gigs. Okay, so gone to

16:35

your head? What is your favorite instrument?

16:37

What she's like a

16:41

questions like that. No,

16:44

really, it's my life, man, I'm

16:46

telling you, like it's it's

16:49

not about the instrument right now. I obviously

16:51

love the bass, obviously I love the voice, but like

16:53

truly, the practice right now

16:55

to me is like polishing the instrument

16:58

of my humanity because everything emerges

17:00

from there.

17:01

So there's a fire in your house right now, what do

17:03

you say? I might get an answered at

17:06

least an instrument.

17:07

Yeah, fire in your house to your head.

17:11

It's a really violent Sorry about all of a sudden,

17:13

come to question, super Yeah, Can

17:16

I just ask you a question about the way you grew up? Because

17:18

I read something interesting about how you had

17:20

to be homeschool because of something that you

17:22

went through physically as a kid, And

17:24

as you were talking about rehearsing, I was

17:26

like, well, I wonder if if some of your

17:29

rehearsing, uh,

17:31

it comes from the fact that you were at home a lot and

17:33

you have to practice a lot.

17:34

I'm just curious. Can you explain? Yeah,

17:37

I don't know if there's a connection that feels very

17:39

personal. My god, sorry, No, it's cool,

17:43

get into you. Yeah, let's go, let's

17:45

go. Yeah.

17:47

She means like being home. Yeah,

17:50

was that more time to practice as opposed to No.

17:52

I watched a lot of Joy Springer and I thank

17:56

you. Yeah.

18:00

And you know, that was before I understood what practice

18:02

was. That's before practice was like suffering or a thing you

18:04

were supposed to do because you had to do it. So

18:06

it's just be like, remember, well, before there

18:09

was any sort of like four track recording

18:11

device, you do that thing where you have two tape recorders

18:13

and you just keep like recording the thing over the

18:16

thing you want. Right, So

18:19

I did a lot of that, a lot of.

18:23

You know, like five year old boss, so exactly,

18:26

that.

18:26

Was a lot of my of my time.

18:27

At what age or what year did you

18:31

master your craft?

18:33

No, go ahead,

18:36

I'm sorry.

18:38

No, I'm still learning.

18:39

But it's true, it's true. And also that word master

18:42

is just problematic for me right now, likeation

18:46

sense, I'm just saying, like a master

18:48

of what? Like master of what? Really?

18:52

Okay, when when.

18:54

Did you get comfortable with your skills as a as

18:56

a musician?

18:57

Oh? Well, I'm not comfortable with them. But that's

18:59

not that's not a problem. I'm

19:03

sorry.

19:04

I've never seen someone

19:08

where you're where you're coming from.

19:09

I mean, well, so do you

19:11

still get intimidated going on stage?

19:15

Of course? The last joy? That's the

19:17

joy? Like that that is the practice too,

19:19

Like if you know there's some some ship that scares

19:21

you and you're willing to like dive through and dive in,

19:23

like that is the practice to I know that

19:26

you need, but I

19:28

like to know that it might not work, you know what I mean, Like

19:30

I like to know, like, oh, ship, how we're going to get out

19:32

of this one?

19:33

I like this? Yeah, okay,

19:35

I love it.

19:36

I definitely am.

19:37

Okay.

19:37

So this is weird to hear these answers.

19:39

Okay, but yet most

19:41

of your songs are like in seven eight

19:44

meter like these odd times

19:46

and these really dissident modulations. Yeah,

19:49

which I mean for those that don't understand,

19:52

like want of Layman's talk or whatever. I mean, it's

19:54

like the daredevil equivalent of

19:57

of.

19:58

Tight rope walking.

19:59

Yeah, uh, Empire

20:02

State Building, that's

20:04

the same.

20:04

I do the sports ones, thank.

20:06

You flowers to your

20:08

head.

20:10

So what I'm saying is

20:12

is.

20:14

That I

20:17

mean, you're at least

20:19

six seven albums deep in walking

20:22

the Wildside, So.

20:24

It doesn't feel I mean, that's

20:28

all your record all

20:30

your records, like it's not like

20:33

maybe it's just not that deep. Like I just

20:36

do what I hear. If I hear some ship

20:38

and I can comprehend it. If I have the

20:40

like the whisper of the sound or the premonition of the sound,

20:42

I just go to make that sound, you know what I mean?

20:45

Okay.

20:45

So as they're speaking tonight, you're you're doing

20:48

a collaborate project with

20:50

Robert.

20:51

Robert, Yes, Chris

20:54

justin Tyson.

20:55

Okay, just so with

20:58

with that particular situation, are

21:00

you nervous about

21:04

really?

21:05

Yes, Robert is still Oh my

21:07

god, Yes, it's what

21:10

makes you nervous? Is it because of who he

21:12

is? What he might do? Well, I feel very what

21:15

he might do. That's what he might do. I feel

21:17

that.

21:20

He'll do comedy before he'll do anything else.

21:23

Yes, but also also like I

21:25

remember something that George Waen said once.

21:27

He's like, you're young, you get into jazz and you're doing

21:29

it intuitively, like you're studying, and it's all cool and

21:31

anything, like oh I got this, I can do this. Then

21:34

you get like ten thirteen years in and you realize how hard it

21:36

actually is, and then all of a sudden you're

21:38

like god damn, like thank god, I didn't understand

21:41

how intense this was. Like I'm at

21:43

that place right now where I'm just

21:45

like holy shit, like

21:47

there's so much more that I

21:50

want to do and study and training.

21:52

Have you met a composition that

21:54

you've yet to M

21:56

word M word?

21:59

Yes? But

22:02

isn't that the gift, Like what the hell, it

22:04

wouldn't be fun if you're out here, like I go up this

22:06

ship. Yeah, gone and done.

22:08

I feel like you feel

22:10

like the second that you feel comfortable

22:12

like okay, yeah,

22:15

next, then everything's

22:17

over Like wow,

22:19

I'm.

22:19

Here, but you're like that too, Like why.

22:21

Are you I'm in a new place now.

22:35

You don't want to be challenging.

22:36

I'm going to enjoy this.

22:37

I'm going to re enter your life through the

22:39

through phone communication, which I know you hate.

22:42

No, I actually I'm gonna buy your book and

22:44

see if this changes you.

22:46

Over text, I do. I prefer talking on

22:48

the phone again for the sonic exchange,

22:50

you know, but right now, like

22:53

what I really would love to do, really, really

22:55

really in music, honestly, is

22:57

to harness the best of practices

22:59

for music therapy and neuroscience. Say

23:01

what yes, and like get that into like a playbook

23:04

that other musicians can use. And it's not like

23:06

you have to be explicit like we're yielding

23:08

these tools, but just like yo, okay,

23:10

Like these combinations of chords have this effect

23:12

on the body, Like these combinations of

23:15

rhythms like have a soothing effect. Oh my

23:17

god, I don't know certain agree.

23:23

Okay, done and done.

23:25

I've done a lot of cosmic crazy ship, you

23:29

know what it is.

23:30

I read an interview with DJ Quick about maybe

23:32

about ten years ago, and he was talking about the way he

23:34

approaches when he's making beats. It's like he keeps

23:37

people's heart beats and you know, he's thinking about

23:39

the pace of their heart. I love that he's doing

23:41

that, So it's kind of I'm kind of getting that

23:43

same vibe.

23:46

For Graves. I don't know if y'all familiar with him. There's

23:48

a beautiful documentary called Full Mantis

23:50

about his work. He's been exploring this as

23:52

a percussionist, and actually what he discovered

23:55

ended up informing like the medical

23:57

field. He is the one who discovered the measurements

23:59

for heart great variables, you know. And

24:01

this was coming from his question as a percussionist

24:03

of like how do I affect and heal the human heart

24:06

from my rhythm? And I just like

24:08

I say this because as

24:11

artists, like I was saying before, we have been

24:13

practicing something very unique, like

24:15

we have a superpower and it's incredible,

24:17

and we yield it through our art intuitively and

24:19

through study and practice. And I just feel like, right, now

24:21

on planet Earth, like we have an incredible

24:24

gift to be offered through this medium of music.

24:26

People trust us, they need us, Like we know that we're

24:28

administering medicine. So I'm excited

24:31

at this particular moment of how that medicine

24:34

can be like supercharged with what our friends

24:36

and colleagues over in the science world are doing. You

24:38

know.

24:38

Yeah, I literally got to email from somebody who

24:40

is like the CEO of Musical Health Technologies.

24:43

Oh so that's like a literally and you went to Kappa

24:45

with them. Yeah, who oh, I was

24:47

supposed to take it's out here.

24:48

It's happening. It's happening, and it's ecass

24:50

and maybe it'll all come back around to what we

24:52

already do intuitively, like well, like

24:55

we've been doing this.

24:56

You know you are telling the truth

24:58

because you remember, like some

25:00

time ago when Terrence

25:03

Howard is talking a little bit crazy on the Red

25:05

carpet.

25:06

Oh at Tyler, Well

25:09

yeah.

25:09

Yeah, and you

25:11

know Black Twitter had a field day. He

25:14

was actually telling the truth. One

25:18

he did it in such a cosmic way. He

25:21

did it in such a cosmic way that would

25:23

just set off Black Twitter like he crazy.

25:26

Well, I mean, the thing is you know when people talk about

25:28

like meditation and and

25:31

kind of metaphysics and all

25:33

that stuff.

25:34

Anything that ain't in the Bible, right

25:36

exactly, we're getting there.

25:37

People.

25:38

Let's not be too hard on us and we out

25:40

of history. No we need we are

25:42

doing We are doing it more often than not when it

25:44

comes to meditation and things of that nature. That's not be

25:46

hard on us. All of us here know it.

25:49

So I pulled.

25:50

So I've been putting off this

25:52

thing for like nine months where I'm

25:54

like, what the hell is the sound bath? Okay,

25:56

you're going to play a gong and I'm gonna

25:58

do some breathing exercise like lamas.

26:01

It's going to change my life right to

26:03

give birth to music. Please keep

26:05

talking, that's.

26:06

The thing, please please. I love that.

26:08

I'm just saying that. That's how closed closed

26:11

I was to the idea of it. And then

26:14

I went into the most transformative

26:18

like experience of my life, which

26:22

and it's so hard. It's it's like I would have

26:24

it's probably easier to make you think that there

26:26

is a Santa Claus, but you're

26:30

actually speaking into existence

26:33

things that happen where these people

26:36

play music in meditation, and it's

26:38

it's it's past.

26:41

Uh a tantric orgasm,

26:43

like it's past all of that. It's really and

26:45

especially yes, I

26:48

highly recommend it.

26:49

Can I ask you, guys,

26:50

what it was to experience

26:53

it? You can?

26:55

It's like, okay, how do you explain

26:58

what it is? I don't know what it is?

27:00

I knew.

27:02

Experiential, you know, like I practice

27:04

reiki. When people ask me what that is, I'm

27:07

like, I can try to explain

27:09

it to you, but it'd be like if you never heard music

27:12

and I'm trying to explain to you what the sensory experience

27:14

of hearing organized sound is.

27:17

You feel it in your body, and when

27:19

you feel it, you get what the shit is. But

27:21

until then, it really doesn't help to explain

27:24

experience.

27:25

I believe, like when you see homeless

27:27

people talking to themselves on the.

27:28

Street, mighty find me a group on for one.

27:30

Really, No, My dream

27:34

is to organize this for

27:36

my loved ones, Like

27:38

I'm gonna try and figure out how I can do it for fifty

27:41

people, But in

27:43

the meanwhile, I have to get

27:45

them open to the idea of doing this, because mine

27:47

took me about My experience was

27:49

like eight hours. What I got there four point

27:51

thirty and

27:54

after all the crying and screaming and all that shit

27:56

was done. You know, I'm

27:59

telling my girlfriend like, oh, okay, let's go get

28:01

some me. She's like, Babe, it's three

28:03

forty five in the morning. Literally,

28:07

yeah, it's it's you went

28:09

in. It's the most intense therapy thing

28:11

that you'll ever deal with.

28:12

In your life.

28:13

I think that we might be one

28:15

of the few cultures that doesn't

28:18

have an articulation for the medicinal

28:20

properties of music.

28:22

They doing in Africa, though, I think.

28:23

That's what I'm saying. She's American, I'm saying

28:25

in this in this nation, in our culture.

28:28

I think that it's actually very common

28:30

knowledge in many, many cultures

28:32

that you utilize music for specific

28:35

functions, for grieving, for births,

28:37

for birthdays, for celebration, for

28:39

even for medicinal reasons, you know. And

28:42

I think that right now we're coming

28:44

back to that maybe that ancient understanding.

28:47

Yes, And I know a lot of musicians who

28:49

are asking like, okay, so how do I like,

28:51

how do I imbue what I do with that? When you were speaking

28:53

about wanting to bring your family to it, I'm like, damn, is

28:55

that something you can do? From the stage, Like, is there a version

28:58

where you like weave some of that potency

29:00

into what's being disseminated for the whole audience.

29:02

This is what I think that.

29:06

That's real. That's real, it

29:08

is, that's real. She knows

29:10

what she's doing.

29:11

I'll give you a better example

29:14

now hearing that

29:16

nineteen minute version of Pharaoh Sanders, the creator

29:18

has a master plan, hey,

29:21

that or like the Principales, the

29:23

Leon Thomas, just like the twenty you

29:25

know, like listening to it without context and

29:28

then like when he starts his yodeling thing, that starts

29:30

wearing, weirding me out, like, okay, what's he and

29:33

then they start primitive screaming

29:35

and all that like pretty much the

29:38

last ages of Coltrane, the

29:40

last stages of Pharaoh Sanders' albums.

29:44

Uh, truth be told. Yoko

29:46

Ono's early early

29:49

stuff, Dude.

29:51

My first experience, my first exposure to Yoko

29:53

as a vocalist was the Rolling Stones

29:55

rock and roll circus. Yes, and you've

29:57

seen it. You know exactly what I saw and what I heard

30:00

so exactly.

30:01

No, but even even even with the plastic

30:03

go thing with with mother, all

30:07

the screaming, please, yeah, all the screaming

30:10

at the.

30:10

End of Mother is due to the fact that Yoko

30:12

got John into.

30:15

Did that feel cathartic for you listening?

30:18

Yes, totally right.

30:19

Isn't that deep? And I wonder when we're

30:21

thinking about you speaking about Faril Sanders and culture

30:24

and like often I think

30:26

we speak about their intention of what they were sending

30:28

out. But I want us to just remember that,

30:30

you know, the personal work

30:33

when we share it is very potent and

30:35

very powerful, just as medicine in and of itself,

30:37

because very rarely do we actually get to witness

30:40

people in healing process it it's hidden. It

30:42

happens in a room somewhere with like your therapist,

30:44

or it happens in your marriage counseling, or at church

30:46

if you happen to get the spirit if you're a lucky one,

30:48

you know. But I think that right now,

30:50

like giving that permission to show

30:53

like the total vulnerability and almost

30:55

like borderline madness of what healing looks like,

30:57

that catharsis is a gift that we can give

30:59

too.

31:00

It is.

31:00

I'm happy you brought up Creator as a master plane because I

31:02

still remember the very first time I heard that, which was probably

31:04

about maybe fifteen years ago, and it

31:06

really was like like I felt changed

31:09

after I heard it. Yeah, Like I was like, holy shit,

31:11

like I've been you know, a lifelong fan of music,

31:13

you know, you know, music is transformative. I

31:16

had never experienced what I felt

31:18

when I first heard Created as a master plan.

31:19

It's like whoa, and those individuals

31:22

just to bring it around

31:24

or connect the dots, they to deep

31:26

spiritual work as well. Like I think those

31:28

are two artists for sure, Parol Sanders

31:31

and John Coltran who recognized their lives as

31:33

the instrument as well. And we're doing that

31:35

deep studying and taking that responsibility

31:37

to polish their instrument of their.

31:38

When I finally understood what was going on with The Love

31:41

Supreme, like I was like, oh wow, this is just

31:44

well not not fully understood, but like you know, when I finally

31:46

realized that the you know, the last part is him

31:48

playing the prayer on the back of the cover of the

31:50

album, or you know when he when

31:53

he's playing the in the first part where

31:55

he's playing the Love Supreme motif, and you know,

31:58

in every key he's saying God is in every and

32:00

everything, So you know, just speaking

32:02

up on things like that, it's like, yes, yes.

32:07

A big part.

32:08

Why so maybe foreign to us

32:10

because this is one of the unfortunate,

32:13

one of the kind of things that I find problematic

32:16

with how religion

32:18

is in America, especially

32:21

in terms.

32:23

Especially well there's.

32:25

The church the Coltrane in California.

32:27

And so here's the thing.

32:29

When I was doing research

32:31

on this is a long story

32:34

of me finding out how my ancestors

32:36

came to the States. And

32:38

so the long story short is

32:41

that once they were emancipated,

32:43

they were allowed to purchase a big

32:45

body of land two hundred acres of which

32:47

they were allowed to go back to their religion

32:50

and their way of living in their

32:52

techniques, so they didn't have to practice Christianity

32:54

anymore. And once I

32:56

did the research of what they did in Africa Town

32:58

in Alabama, at first I was joking

33:01

like, oh, no, wonder, I'm kind of

33:03

hippioists, Like there are a bunch of hippies. They even

33:06

in the Failout play they spoke of a I

33:08

can't pronounce it in bulk towards

33:10

it's a religious practice where

33:14

it's like a three day meditation. It would be the equivalent

33:16

of a Hyawaska Ta ceremony or

33:18

that sort of thing. Or mushrooms or whatever.

33:21

It's sort of like the religion that was

33:24

imposed on us for purposes of

33:27

slavery is

33:30

conflicting into what we originally came

33:32

from. And so that's kind of

33:34

what I'm conflicted with now on

33:37

at least trying to get other black people then

33:40

not just think that I'm some Birkenstock

33:42

granola hippie.

33:43

So yeah, hey, do tune in

33:45

into and out.

33:46

There's a large to tribe than you think. I like to

33:48

think that whatever archetypal

33:50

benevolent energies there are, they

33:53

are very forgiving of the small, small

33:55

minded ways that human beings interpret what

33:58

they have to say. I like to

34:00

imagine them in another realm, just

34:02

like in harmony with each other, and we're the

34:04

ones who are like clashing our

34:06

like diminished edits of what they've offered

34:09

with each other, you know, because I

34:11

mean everywhere you go in the world

34:13

that Christianity has been imposed, you see

34:16

ways that indigenous cultures have

34:18

absorbed the best of and use

34:20

it as nomenclature to translate what they already

34:22

knew what they already knew to be truths, because

34:24

I mean, essentially, if you can't feel the

34:27

ultimate truth in your heart? What's the word gonna do for

34:29

you? You know? And I have

34:32

seen this with friends who are practicing

34:34

in other faiths but are really open to Christianity. They

34:36

find the metaphor they need to access

34:38

that benevolent archetype and let it

34:40

serve them and support them. So, you know,

34:43

like in other words, like I don't need

34:45

to throw away Christianity

34:47

or like put it down. I just can

34:49

see that humans got their hands on it,

34:52

diminished it to diminish other human beings.

34:54

But the archetypal truth exactly

34:57

is what it is. And I think there

34:59

are benevolent entities that are hard

35:01

to describe, Like what we're.

35:04

A dummy version of what you just said is most people

35:06

just say I'm spiritual.

35:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah,

35:11

it work with it.

35:12

Like not one or true religions. They got some truth,

35:14

here's some truth. I just pull it.

35:16

But I mean that's that's similar to how we get

35:18

into music, right, Like essentially, if

35:20

you are devoted, you're gonna find what you need.

35:23

Like devotion is devotion is devotionally,

35:25

it doesn't matter if you're a folk singer or a jazz

35:27

musician or whatever, Like if you're willing to put in that

35:29

level of devotion, like you will unpackage

35:32

that the polishing of your centrifuge,

35:34

you know, and be able to bring through the magic that

35:36

that you have to offer in this realm.

35:43

I have a question, yes, with regards

35:45

to music being a healing

35:48

tool and so forth, and I want to just

35:50

temporarily bring it to the to the actual bass

35:53

guitar and

35:56

is the is the bass guitar

35:59

or base or anything

36:01

that creates low end Is

36:03

that is that more suitable

36:06

for healing because of the

36:09

stronger vibrations.

36:10

Oh, that's interesting. I

36:15

don't know. For me, I

36:17

experienced it as a very soothing part

36:20

of my life. Also, I

36:22

think more than the bass as an

36:24

instrument, that was

36:26

an instrument that I could improvise on. It was

36:28

the first instrument that I actually felt free, just

36:31

spontaneously creating on. And I recently

36:34

that's what.

36:34

I meant by comfortable earlier.

36:35

Yeah, Yeah, I recently learned

36:38

that when you are in the state

36:40

of improvising, you're actually

36:42

soothing your brain. So

36:44

being an active improvisation actually

36:47

changes the functionality of your brain as

36:49

you're doing it. It's also the only time

36:51

that you're the part of your brain that

36:53

forms I narrative and the part

36:56

of your brain that listens are active at the same

36:58

time. So personally,

37:01

I don't know if it's the instrument itself or the fact that

37:03

I was free on it. I know that my whole

37:05

life, when I've been playing the instrument, I've been soothing

37:07

myself. I've been soothing my brain.

37:10

It is a blessing.

37:10

But also because you know it, you'll

37:13

feel the vibrations more in your body because a

37:16

stand up.

37:16

Basically, yeah, that would be something interesting to look

37:19

into. Just the resonance. What the resonance of the instrument

37:21

does? It feels healing as hell?

37:23

I mean, it's I have one other question

37:25

about that bass. So for people

37:27

that don't know out there, the difference

37:29

between an

37:32

upright bass or a standard an

37:34

acoustic bass and a double

37:37

bass.

37:39

Different.

37:39

It's just different names for the same thing.

37:41

Yeah, yeah, can I ask a question.

37:44

My dad wanted me to ask you this question because

37:46

we were rolling around listening to your music the other day

37:48

and he was like, oh, I'm a fan. You don't have to play it,

37:50

he said, but he's as a drummer. My dad's

37:52

a drummer. He was like, I need her to really talk about

37:55

how difficult it is to sing

37:57

and play stand up bass and how

38:00

those somehow he did some of Mere bill

38:02

Ship where it's like the ones the two's in the fours,

38:05

and how it's hard to get in and stuff.

38:06

But I didn't. I was like, I'm gonna ask the

38:08

ruin, ask espan. Yeah, I disagree

38:11

that it's hard. I think because

38:15

it's all hard. All of it

38:17

is difficult. I mean, we

38:19

know this.

38:20

You know this practice I did.

38:22

I did. I practiced a lot. I think

38:24

anybody who practiced as much as

38:27

I did singing and playing would find it

38:29

as accessible as playing piano. Left and right

38:31

hand is just you're

38:33

used to seeing that, so we don't think about it as much.

38:35

But like left and right hand piano, independence is crazy?

38:38

What's the thing you ignore?

38:40

Ignore?

38:41

If I'm playing

38:43

and singing, I'm not thinking about what

38:45

I'm playing. I'm thinking about what I'm singing.

38:47

Oh, interimating. I try to hear

38:49

it all like I try to stretch fe Okay,

38:54

you know what it is like After a certain point, the

38:56

kinetic memory comes in on the base.

38:59

Yeah, so that you have access to that. I have

39:01

to say, though this particular

39:03

era, I have not been practicing that much, and it's

39:05

really wild to be in like a plying environment

39:07

and actually be trying to think about all that shit at once. It's

39:10

it doesn't feel it doesn't feel as close

39:13

right.

39:13

Now because Peters, my dad is eighty, and

39:15

we were really trying to rack our brains to think of other stand

39:18

musicians that play stand up base and sing,

39:20

and we.

39:20

Were like, yeah,

39:23

can you play drums? Sure?

39:26

Does it sound good?

39:27

You play good? Have you played

39:29

on your albums?

39:30

I have not?

39:31

Okay, I got a question, but it's not too late.

39:34

The Roots have been trying to complete their last album

39:37

for like three or four years. Yeah,

39:39

and you like to like make an album in like

39:41

three days.

39:43

Yeah, things like that. So I feel like

39:45

the two of you.

39:46

Yeah, but

39:49

that yeah,

39:51

that that album. What that was

39:53

was showcasing the process

39:55

of creation as the project. So it

39:58

was less about the final product and more about

40:00

like the art form that we're exhibiting

40:02

right here is creation itself with

40:05

all the tightrope walking involved.

40:07

Because I truly think personally

40:09

in my Daredevil character that I am like,

40:12

when the risk is real, it activates

40:14

this whole other dimension of your creativity.

40:19

That I agree with you and not just in music, just I think

40:21

it's in anything. Like I feel like I do my best

40:23

work when I'm under so much pressure because

40:25

that.

40:29

Okay, what about it does not have to

40:31

be pressure, but just the stakes

40:33

are real, Like, the stakes are really real.

40:35

You have to write the paper, You stay up all night

40:37

to write the paper for well you didn't go to college because

40:39

you're a prodigy, and

40:44

then write the paper the night before because you needed

40:46

the deadline.

40:47

No, no, I mean it like I

40:50

think we're both referring to like the

40:52

creative environment where the stakes are high

40:54

and very real and there's nowhere else

40:56

to go. Like if you had two weeks to do the

40:58

paper, you could theoretically start a two weeks out

41:00

and you could feel that like, hm, okay, I'm leaning

41:03

towards something. What I love is when you're in an

41:05

environment you don't know what's about to happen, and

41:07

you're being asked to generate in real time a creative

41:09

response. To me, that's the most exciting space

41:11

of creation.

41:12

Provisation one on one, I mean, that's exactly what you're doing.

41:14

Yeah, that's also like improvisation at the highest

41:17

level, because improvisation one on one

41:19

could be like, oh, I know the context, it's

41:21

going to be this like C Minor blues, and here's

41:23

all the scales and the shapes that I prepared. I'm

41:26

interested in the stuff that you don't know, Like you don't know

41:28

yet what it's going to look like, you don't know what's coming at you, and

41:30

you and you co create in real time. And

41:32

I think that's what the Way showed Quartet did for the world.

41:35

They like showed the highest possible

41:38

level of that, like spontaneous creation,

41:40

literally making something from nothing, because they'll

41:42

go out and have no idea, they don't have a set, they don't

41:44

have a song.

41:45

But you learn that shit so you can forget it. Isn't that that's

41:47

the big line about that stuff. You learn C Minor skills and

41:49

all that other craft. When you actually get there, you just

41:52

vacated.

41:52

Maybe that said a lot, but I'm

41:55

having a hard time thinking of anybody who actually

41:58

exhibits what the possibility is at that level.

42:00

It's like the Way also, I just I'm like

42:02

such a devote of wings. I try to talk about them as much

42:04

as I can.

42:07

Next level, I would like to propose

42:10

a not a challenge of missions

42:12

before you leave god. Okay, okay,

42:17

are you familiar with Are you familiar

42:19

with dogma ninety five?

42:21

Have you heard that term? All right,

42:23

so what is it? Dogmen ninety five?

42:26

Excited?

42:29

So a bunch of Danish filmmakers

42:32

tired, we're tired of the French flexing on that.

42:34

Oh we're the best filmmakers, We're the most artistic.

42:37

So they about

42:39

to say, like thee.

42:43

So they so they issued a challenge

42:46

which had all these restrictions like okay,

42:48

well then you got to make a movie on this type

42:50

of camera with natural lighting, no

42:53

soundtracks, nodada, no, edits

42:56

no. And it was like, who makes

42:58

the best product under all these strictions.

43:00

Then they're the winner, and they called it Dogmen

43:02

ninety five. I would love to

43:04

see I love them the music version

43:07

of that.

43:07

Actually, I think there's I think why

43:11

I think Matthew Herbert the electronic musician

43:13

works that way really and also

43:16

there's somebody else or somebody else Ohnoon.

43:19

I don't know if he still does, but when he first

43:21

started, he used to like when at the end

43:23

of all of his videos he would have like his little

43:25

manifesto or whatever, and it was the list of all all

43:28

the things he didn't all of his rules for

43:30

making music.

43:30

See, I think that's a luxury of the privilege though,

43:33

like truly, which is cute and

43:35

beautiful, and.

43:36

I I

43:42

don't hear what you're saying.

43:43

I really dig that. I really dig that I do.

43:45

And I'm thinking of this documentary that I saw

43:47

about the Landfillharmonic of

43:50

these young people and their music teachers who

43:52

were making instruments out of garbage. But

43:55

because that's all that had access to and

43:57

the drive to generate music was so strong

43:59

that they're like, Yo, we don't have tellos, we don't

44:01

have violins, but we have all this stuff around us. Let's

44:04

just make what we need. And again,

44:06

like that creative impulse of generating

44:08

something out of nothing is incredible.

44:11

And for those of us who have like infinite

44:13

access to these resources, I sort of feel

44:15

like it's our responsibility to expand

44:17

the spread

44:26

it and then spread it. If you have all that surplus,

44:28

like go find some musicians who are actually

44:30

trying to make some ship and like offer your access

44:33

to them instead of do it, you do it. I know you do

44:35

it.

44:35

Sometimes

44:37

To get out of here, We're going to continue talking

44:40

so we can come to terms.

44:43

Everything thank

44:45

you, Thank you so much. You love

44:48

Your

44:57

Must Love Supreme is a production of iHeart

44:59

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45:02

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