0:00

Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

0:05

What Up, y'all, It's Laiah and

0:07

we are back with part two of our interview

0:09

with the incredible, incomparable,

0:12

trail blazing Robert Townsend. Y'all

0:14

know, this conversation is everything I love about Quest

0:17

Love Supreme. It's funny, informative,

0:20

and life so heartfelt. Last

0:22

week, Robert spoke about his roads to comedy

0:24

and acting as he lighted

0:27

us all.

0:28

With a bunch of impersonations.

0:30

He spoke about working on The Warriors, the

0:32

movie y'all, nearly joining SNL,

0:35

and a deep dive into how he made Hollywood

0:37

shuffle with a dream and a credit

0:39

card.

0:40

So now we're back for part two.

0:43

Join us as we celebrate Black History

0:45

Month with an American treasure Robert

0:48

Townsend. Part two taped in studio

0:50

at iHeart Hollywood. Enjoy

0:53

y'all.

1:01

Once the success of the

1:04

film brings you to this platform,

1:07

what's your internal feelings? Because oftentimes

1:10

when person has like that

1:12

type of success, out the box, I mean we could

1:14

say this is the illmatic nod situation

1:16

or whatever, like the follow up

1:19

getting over the mountain, Like in

1:21

your mind, what

1:23

are you envisioning your next

1:26

step to be.

1:28

You know what's funny is that I've

1:30

always known exactly what I want to do,

1:32

and then it's just that when

1:35

you like, after Hollywood

1:37

Shuffle, I was being offered everything in the universe,

1:40

every project, every script, every da da

1:42

da dad.

1:42

What was being offered to you?

1:46

It was all kinds of bad

1:49

comedies. It was like a lot of bad stuff

1:51

that I wouldn't want to do. And

1:54

so I was like, you know when people go like,

1:56

well this, you haven't made a lot of films.

1:58

This is funny, and then it's like, no, it's

2:00

not funny. And you're dealing with TV

2:02

Guide because I grew up on television, so there's

2:04

a certain I have my money

2:06

to them. Yeah, And so I was

2:09

being offered everything, but there was nothing that spoke

2:11

to me. And the one story that I wanted to

2:13

do when I was a kid in

2:15

Chicago in nineteen sixty eight,

2:18

Herb Kent the Cool Gent gets on the radio

2:20

and says the Temptations

2:22

are breaking up and David

2:24

Ruffin is leaving the group, and that was my favorite

2:27

group, and so.

2:27

I was like, what what happened?

2:30

This is wrong? Blah blah blah.

2:31

And so then that kind of stayed in

2:33

my head. And so my

2:36

thing was, you know, I told Keena and I said, we could

2:38

do a story. I wasn't, you know, arrogant

2:41

enough to say we could get the temptation story. I

2:43

said, let's let's make our own movie. But I

2:45

want to know what happened. I want to

2:47

know what happened to that singing group? Why did they break up?

2:49

You know, because I was devastated as a kid. I just remember

2:51

looking at the radio and I was like, going, what,

2:54

why did he's leaving?

2:55

What?

2:55

You know?

2:56

And then that took me on the journey for the next

2:58

movie. But all the stuff that they were offering me, there was

3:00

nothing that I was really like, you know, with

3:03

The.

3:03

Five Heartbeats you at the end

3:06

credits you mentioned the Dells. Yes, how

3:08

involved were they in, you know, with

3:10

making a movie with you? And how much of the story

3:13

is from their personal kind

3:15

of experience.

3:16

So so let me give you the

3:18

backstory behind the film.

3:21

I did a documentary on it. It's called Making the

3:23

Heartbeats. So the whole the

3:25

whole thing that I would say is that initially

3:28

I wanted David Ruffin and

3:31

Eddie Kendricks to be the technical advisors,

3:34

and so I had reached out to them and David

3:37

he was going through his drug thing. He was he

3:39

was struggling, and so I went to meet with him,

3:41

and you know, he was strung out a little bit.

3:44

And Keenan and I we said, hey, once the

3:46

film gets green lit, we're gonna put him in rehab.

3:48

We'll just pay for it to just take care of him, and blah blah

3:51

blah.

3:51

So that's our that was our plan because I

3:53

told Keenan man,

3:55

David doesn't look good and he was doing that snorting

3:58

and all that, and I could just tell. And so we

4:00

were gonna, you know, uh, take

4:02

care, you know, put you know, put them in rehab.

4:05

So anyway, the studio

4:07

Joe Roth, finally green lights the

4:09

movie and so I go, hey, I got

4:12

David Ruffin and Eddie Kendricks. And then

4:14

he goes no, And I said, why

4:16

not? He says, because everybody's going to think

4:18

it's the Motown story and you

4:20

got that big red character, and so they're

4:22

gonna say, oh, the Temptations, and you're

4:25

gonna get lawsuits up the wazoo because

4:27

people are going to say, oh, this is the Motown story

4:30

because you got these two as your technical advisors.

4:33

And so then at that point I had to say

4:35

no to them, which broke my heart.

4:37

And then.

4:40

They were saying, who else would you want to be

4:43

technical advisors? And then that's when the

4:45

Dells, you know, I said, the

4:47

Dells, and then the Dells.

4:50

You knew, Marvin Jr.

4:51

That's crazy, Oh.

4:53

My god, Oh my god.

4:56

Yo, man, Like I was born,

4:59

So I wasn't born in a Dell's

5:01

concert, but my mom like,

5:03

damn near on the eighth ninth month.

5:06

But I started kicking at a Dell's

5:08

concert And are you serious? Yeah,

5:10

yeah, yeah I was. I

5:13

was in the moon but yeah, I mean I

5:15

grew up like I grew up in the Charles

5:17

Stephanie period of the dell So like

5:19

how sweet and funk being all. But yeah,

5:21

Marvin Junior like to me even

5:24

knowing, like the briefly, like my dad knew Teddy

5:27

Pentagrads whatever, Like Teddy would even

5:29

say like that's his north

5:31

start, Like.

5:32

What was it? What was it?

5:34

Like?

5:34

Just dealing with it because the world

5:36

does not know about the Dells and how.

5:38

So let me so the Dell's,

5:41

you know, my favorite singing

5:43

group. People know, Oh what a Night is one

5:45

of their big, big, big songs, and Marvin

5:48

singing the long note, and

5:50

at first they got pushed back from that record

5:53

because they go, this record

5:55

is too long, but the DJs

5:57

eventually loved it because they could take a break

5:59

and people.

6:00

Love that long note and then the whole thing.

6:02

So the first meeting with the Dell's

6:05

could have been the last meeting because they

6:08

were at the will Turn Theater and I was like,

6:10

oh, you know, like after the whole thing happened

6:12

with the Temptations, I was like, they're

6:15

in town, so I'll go talk to

6:17

them.

6:17

Now.

6:17

I don't know how to interview people, so I was never

6:20

like that, so we I do

6:22

my research before I go there. On

6:24

their first album cover, they weren't

6:26

on the cover.

6:27

It's a white couple.

6:28

Walking along Michigan Avenue looking so in

6:31

love, and so I'm

6:33

like, and they're on the back of the little

6:35

square this big and so then I was like, that's kind of messed

6:37

up their first album, and I was like, that's kind of weird. So

6:39

anyway, I go to the will Turn.

6:42

They're getting ready for the show. They're all in their white

6:44

bathrobes and they're putting their makeup

6:46

on and just chilling and everything.

6:48

And so they're all friendly and nice. Robert Towns is

6:50

coming to see us. Man, Robert Towns, Hey, how you doing, Robert?

6:52

How you doing?

6:53

And so then we're.

6:54

Talking, and so then I'm looking at

6:56

them and I'm like going, I say, hey man, I'm

6:59

trying to do this move. I want to get it real about

7:01

how groups were treated, how much money you made.

7:03

And I could see their faces changing in the mirror,

7:06

and I was like, okay, I just said something wrong.

7:08

And so then they were like, yeah, man, yeah we made

7:10

money. Yeah we did, we did. And

7:13

so then they're continued talking. Then

7:15

I said, your album cover. I said, why

7:17

would y'all on the front page of the album cover?

7:19

And I don't know, I just because I was I had just

7:21

looked at it. And so then in the mirror,

7:24

now they're in their seventies, late

7:26

sixties, and I see Marvin Junior

7:29

go and

7:33

I go, oh, man, Rob, you shouldn't have brought

7:35

that up. And then he goes, oh, you know, they

7:37

made a decision and we just decided

7:39

that, you know, that's how they was going to go.

7:42

And then all of

7:44

a sudden, it was

7:46

vern and vern says.

7:50

They wanted us to cross over. They

7:53

said it would be good for our audience, you know. And

7:55

then then then I forgot. Mickey

7:57

said, you know yeah, because they couldn't they

8:00

you know, they could hear our music, but white people

8:02

don't want to see our faces. And so they started going

8:04

back and forth. And then I was like, and I was in

8:06

the mirror, right, and I was

8:08

like the crossover cross

8:11

that came from them, and so as they were going

8:13

through it, and it kind of broke my heart because

8:16

they were old, older men. But

8:19

then when I was looking through the mirror, cause I was sitting

8:21

back while they were all at the mirrors, but they couldn't they could see

8:23

me. They couldn't see me. But then as I was

8:25

looking at them, that memory

8:28

was like it was yesterday, and

8:30

I was like, oh my god, the

8:33

pain. Because then then Mickey

8:35

said, yeah, man, we went to the barbershop

8:37

and they clowned us hard man. Everybody

8:40

at the barbershop was like, what is this bullshit?

8:43

And we felt so disrespected

8:45

and dah da da da. But then you know, they

8:48

made it.

8:48

Up to us and blah blah blah blah blah blah.

8:50

But so that's how that's how the Dell's

8:53

and that's what the Dells gave me.

8:54

So how much of Johnny Carter's life was

8:57

in h the High Voice.

9:01

Yeah, we just took pieces of different you

9:03

know. You know, let

9:05

me say this, the thing of the church

9:07

and secular music has always

9:10

been there, so everybody dealt with that. So

9:12

that's why we you know, it was that, you know,

9:14

and which is real? You know, like, hey, you can't

9:16

serve two masters, you know, so all.

9:19

Actor the actor you castro, I can't remember

9:21

his name off the top of my head, but you also he also played

9:23

your dad, I think, uh.

9:26

Oh, David McKnight.

9:27

Yeah, yeah, David McKnight, and he was

9:29

in Hollywood Shuffle and then also

9:31

he played choir Boys.

9:32

Dad and David McKnight.

9:34

No, I love him as.

9:36

He was the first actor Pey Moon

9:38

Ramie. He entered when I was in college

9:40

and I was in speech contest in college.

9:43

The first time I came to Los Angeles.

9:46

He was the first person to show me

9:48

around, David McKnight, and he had just finished

9:50

a movie called JD's Revenge.

9:52

Yes he was bad, he was

9:54

JD.

9:55

So yeah, man, wait,

9:57

do you have another I have so many, but final

10:01

Five Heart Beats question one of the things

10:03

I remember about that movie.

10:06

It wasn't even so much about the movie. I

10:08

remember because this is what ninety

10:10

one. I was twelve, all

10:13

right, So I'm watching

10:15

Teen Summit, you

10:18

know what I mean, And so you know, back then,

10:20

I would just go to the movies and my mother would just let

10:22

me go to the movies by myself.

10:23

I just go watch.

10:24

And so I went and saw Five Heartbeats

10:27

and I'm

10:29

like, oh my god, this is the greatest movie ever, you

10:31

know what I mean. So then later on I

10:33

see you guys on teen Summit and you're like, yo,

10:35

y'all need to support it, we need whatever. And

10:38

it really kind of cracked

10:40

the facade. I was like, oh wow, like this

10:43

is is it not successful?

10:44

Like how is it not? This movie is amazing.

10:46

But I really appreciate it, just how real

10:48

y'all kept it. I remember you and Michael Wright,

10:51

he was with it, and they was just like, yo,

10:53

like you know, we need to support this. And you were talking

10:55

about the marketing, and that was just

10:57

something that you know, seeing

11:00

black artists on a platform like be he talking

11:02

so openly about the struggles that y'all

11:04

were having on a movie that was in theaters,

11:07

you know what I mean, Like that shit was big, you know

11:09

what I mean, And so I just want you to talk about that man,

11:11

you know, you.

11:12

Know it is you know, let me just say

11:14

this, the

11:17

five heartbeats. That's

11:20

the madness of Townshend on the highest

11:22

level because I

11:24

saw close to ten thousand people to be in that

11:26

film. You know, I had auditions

11:29

in three different cities and just

11:31

just trying to make it. I'm

11:38

co writing, I'm directing, I'm producing,

11:40

I'm acting, and so I'm wearing all these hats

11:42

and then I'm playing music guy as

11:45

well, because I had to pick the music and the lyrics,

11:47

have to make sense and learn

11:49

choreography. So it was like one of the hardest

11:52

things for me. But I

11:54

loved every second of it. But

11:58

again it's that thing again of like the

12:01

marketing wasn't what I thought it was going to

12:03

be and I wasn't happy, and

12:06

you know, this is my that was my second movie,

12:08

you know what I mean. But I've always been like ah,

12:11

you know, and so I lost the battle on the

12:13

marketing. So when the film

12:16

started to die, I was like, this can't be.

12:18

This can't be and the

12:21

film died, but it didn't die. It

12:23

was just Yeah.

12:24

I was like, do you consider it called classic

12:28

because to me, it's not.

12:30

Anytime that movie's on I'm watching it.

12:32

Yeah.

12:32

Period.

12:33

No.

12:33

I mean when I say it

12:35

didn't the box office numbers,

12:38

but I think because the marketing people didn't

12:40

know what they were getting, so we didn't make any

12:42

money. But then now

12:45

it's like over a

12:47

billion, almost two billion clips shared worldwide

12:49

because they send me the numbers on like people will

12:51

send the Sisters scene and they'll send

12:54

Eddie King and then all the memes of Gang and

12:56

I don't have to finish yet.

12:57

What does that mean for you monetarily though that doesn't

13:00

that doesn't.

13:01

Well, the thing is that, uh I

13:03

means but see here, so I'll put it like this,

13:07

No, I do not make any money on

13:09

the clips, but the brand

13:12

is I was not wrong,

13:15

you know. I mean I have ideas sometimes and I think my mind

13:17

goes, you know, like I will create

13:19

something like right now in my brain there's so many different shows

13:21

and stuff that I'm working on that they're all different,

13:24

and I just it's like there's a certain touch

13:26

that I have, Like you can watch movies and

13:29

I designed my movies in such

13:31

a way that I want you to watch.

13:32

Them again and again and again

13:35

and again.

13:35

If I if I've done it right, I've done it

13:37

right, you know, if I've added like even like movies

13:40

that I just directed, like Baps. You know,

13:43

there's so many people that want to remake Baps.

13:45

And they were a whole that's.

13:47

A whole nother story that

13:49

they want to do it. But it's not. It's not It's

13:51

got to be right. It's got to be right. Metior

13:55

Man, thank you, thank you.

13:58

Wait real quick because I want to give props to the young

14:01

young and just doing our make up upstairs,

14:03

Aaron, she said, wait, did Robert Townsend

14:05

put the first black action hero on

14:08

film?

14:09

And I was like, yeah,

14:14

yeah, that

14:17

was the thing?

14:18

Is that again? That's a trojan horse? It's like, uh.

14:21

When my nephew was really little,

14:24

Greg Junior and I was and

14:27

I was coming back to Chicago and it was like

14:30

around Halloween, and I was like, who you're going

14:32

to be for Halloween? Superman, Batman? And

14:35

he was like, I can't be them because they're

14:37

white. And I was, you

14:39

know, and because like you grew up in the hood, there's a certain

14:41

you know, And I was like, no, that's wrong.

14:43

Man.

14:43

Everybody can be a hero, you know, I like Superman,

14:45

like Batman. You could be whatever you want to be. And

14:48

so then I said, oh, I'll create a hero that

14:50

that looks like you know, looks like him.

14:53

Man.

14:53

What was it like having Luther Vandros.

14:58

You know, you know like.

15:01

Luther?

15:02

I well, that's a whole another

15:05

because when I got married, you know, it

15:07

was like we would only play Luther, go to

15:09

Luther concerts and all of that.

15:11

So when I read huh.

15:14

We heard Johnny will say he's a hell of a busser

15:17

like the Dozens.

15:18

Yes, so no, But the thing

15:20

that I would say is that, you know

15:22

when I said, hey, would you want to be in the

15:24

movie? Because I called him and he was working with Gregory

15:26

Hines on an album or something better,

15:30

and so then I said would you be in a movie? And so

15:32

then he goes, you want me to be in a movie? And I says,

15:34

yeah, but I want you to play the bad guy and I want you to have a

15:36

gun, and he says, I have a gun, and so

15:38

he was going through this whole thing and he goes, he says, are

15:40

you serious, and I said, yeah, we're just in pre production.

15:43

He says, can I will

15:45

you give me six months? And I was like, give

15:47

you six months and he was and I was like, if

15:49

you need.

15:50

You know, I was like, yeah, we'll be ready, but you know, you know

15:52

our schedule around your schedule. He said give me six months.

15:55

And he was heavier then and then he

15:57

lost all that weight for.

15:59

The little role.

16:00

So when he showed up, I was like, right,

16:03

right guy,

16:06

Yeah, yeah, no, but but he was perfect, but he

16:08

was he took it serious. He took it really serious, and we were trying

16:11

to do some other stuff. So it was it broke my heart.

16:12

With another actor.

16:14

One thing I always appreciated you, like kind of like

16:16

with Spike, where you have your kind

16:18

of crew of actors that can keep working with. Yes,

16:20

and one guy that I always love, man Roy

16:22

Fagan to He

16:25

was like, I met Roy.

16:27

I was like, so he was dangled

16:37

Roy bro I met Roy. This was man.

16:40

I was a kid, I'm like thirteen years old

16:42

and I went to he was

16:44

doing a play in my city in Greensville, North Caroline.

16:46

He was doing a play at It was an Anti which

16:48

is the hbc U in our tity and uh

16:51

he was oning to play there and I afterwards, I just

16:53

went down in the front row and you

16:55

know, the cast came out, and I just started chopping

16:57

up with him and talking about acting and like kind of like what is

17:00

it like?

17:00

Was it being?

17:01

He was just giving me game? He's like, oh man, you know you

17:03

seem like a smart kid. You know you got a nice commercial

17:05

look, you know what I mean? Like he was, he was cool and

17:08

I always respected it and remember

17:10

that, and I just wanted to know what was it like working

17:12

with him because I.

17:13

Always working again, Roy has been

17:15

so Roy was the U was

17:18

the bad guy in Hollywood Shuffle.

17:20

That was like, don't sell out.

17:21

You know he sold out?

17:24

What's really happened in real life. That's one something that Keen and

17:26

I wrote clear the audition. This guy messed our heads up.

17:28

He was like, brother, don't go in there.

17:29

Man.

17:30

They trying to get some brother to sell out again. Me and Keing

17:32

like really really, And then he went in there with

17:34

that same kind of energy. But no, Roy is just a great

17:36

actor. I mean, you know, like even a meteor man

17:38

playing the bad guy. You know, he's just a

17:40

versatile. He's just a really versatile actor.

17:42

Yeah, man, that what's up?

17:44

Can you talk about why you decided to do this in DC?

17:47

There was a part of me that the

17:49

whole thing of Washington

17:51

Justice.

17:53

Yeah, so that's why I wanted to there.

17:56

Yeah, okay, all right.

17:58

From Atlanta last episode.

18:00

I was born to Howard University Hospital, sir.

18:03

Okay, all right, so

18:05

DC, I get it. I

18:11

want to talk raw. But it just hit me. He's

18:14

responsible for probably

18:18

one of my best

18:20

known songs

18:22

in my Cannon. He's

18:26

responsible for sometimes Block.

18:29

Okay, So here's here's the story. Here's

18:32

the story, and it just hit

18:35

me right now. You directed

18:37

Carmen the Hip Hop Opera.

18:38

Yes, so here's the deal.

18:41

Now, you know, I'm doing residency

18:44

at Electric Ladies Studios and basically

18:48

D'Angelo and I, you know, get along

18:50

famously former friendship, and he's like,

18:52

yo, when I make my second album,

18:55

I need you to be my co pilot. We're going

18:57

to start working on the Voodoo record. So

18:59

from like ninety six till

19:02

yeah, two thousand and three, we

19:05

set up in the House of Hendrix, Jimmy Hendricks

19:07

in the village, and that's our operations.

19:10

So all these albums are

19:12

coming here. The roots are making their records there, Danzels

19:14

making his records, Ericabadu, anyone that's in

19:16

that soul Quary and Neil Soul

19:18

Bubble and so we're working

19:20

on commons like Water

19:22

for Chocolate album and he's

19:25

coming in with an extra pepinist step today. He's

19:27

like, yo man, He's like, I got an

19:29

audition. It is older Yo

19:32

man. I was like, what is it?

19:34

And he's talking about yeah, man, you know I'm

19:36

gonna be an investigator like in

19:39

a cop in this hip hopper

19:41

and old Girl going to be in this too. I'm

19:43

like, who's old Girl? He said, you know old

19:45

girl from Bill's Bill Bilder, Oh Dusty style

19:47

jot. Yeah, Like we didn't know her name whatever,

19:50

so and so

19:54

we now. The thing was even

19:57

though I'm the guy who I'm the planner,

20:00

I'm the bridge, I'm the person that introduces people

20:02

all that stuff. It wasn't like my

20:05

intent. But by year three

20:07

I realized, like, okay, when I fell jam

20:09

sessions, I'm bringing people together and

20:11

when I'm producing people and bringing these musicians together,

20:14

and I thought about it. I said, Yo,

20:17

if COmON gets the this, this this

20:20

part, in this role, then old

20:22

Girl I'm gonna I'm

20:25

gonna bring her into our world. Like I

20:27

was like, all right, Beyonce, I'm gonna bring

20:30

her into our world. And so thing

20:32

of the sitcom switch thing. So he comes

20:34

in the next morning, he has like his sweater on,

20:36

his tie, everything, his hat like he's

20:38

coming to audition. He's not coming in his pajamas,

20:40

like you know, we'll sleep there for five six hours

20:43

whatever, and so common he's

20:45

coming in all excited like yeah, man, I'm gonna knock

20:47

this audition out whatever. And we're like all right, good

20:49

luck, good luck, and we're looking like yo, you thinks going to get

20:51

it. He's like, no, we ain't gonna get it anyway.

20:54

The thing of the thing of the sitcom switch where it's

20:56

like you can do it, you can do it, switch

21:00

back, and all dejected. I was like, what happened. Whenever

21:02

you get the role, you get the roll. It's nah, man

21:05

a man most audition too, Mannah,

21:08

he's going to get it. So we

21:10

got jokes. So that whole

21:13

time we're just watching our

21:15

our our dreams deferred, our dreams, just like

21:17

sail Away. And basically what happens

21:20

is we can't stop

21:22

clown in common about losing this role acting

21:26

with old girl, so we just start

21:28

mocking Bill's Bills, Bills

21:30

and all the The main line

21:32

in Bills Bill's Bills says, I don't think

21:35

you do. So that just

21:37

became this ongoing

21:39

joke for twelve hours, like we play

21:41

something, no common, don't you

21:44

got that role? So just

21:46

what is going on all day and all day? And

21:49

then once Most gets the role that

21:51

we really start mocking. And by like mocking

21:54

wom he says, by Most death my mom,

21:56

he says, So for some reason, James

21:59

Poyser just de sided to amalgamate the

22:01

two songs Bill's Bill's Bills,

22:04

and Umi says, and

22:06

we did it for like twenty

22:09

minutes for fun, and

22:11

it.

22:11

Blows like that's a gem.

22:13

I like that right, And we're like,

22:15

nah, man, it was cool, all right, let's

22:17

let's figure out a new song. And now

22:19

he's like, no, Noah, go go go go back to

22:21

what y'all was just doing. And eventually

22:25

our mocking of Bill's Bill's Bills, and

22:27

Umi says, it's like one

22:29

of Bellow's most loved songs sometimes.

22:31

But best below song of all times.

22:34

Then that's how that song came out

22:36

yeah, but even then, maybe

22:39

sixty percent of his vocals

22:42

was just the one you know, like stevens

22:44

our engineer at the time, like basically like he just

22:46

took him.

22:47

Fifty seven mic and was just singing

22:49

anything.

22:50

I wish I wasn't me and literally

22:53

just.

22:53

Literally that's how that song.

22:55

But it was based on Common's

22:58

experience without the car, right,

23:03

it just.

23:03

Hit me, You're you're directly what was that light

23:05

man directing that? Just

23:08

doing that like that?

23:09

It was you know, I like

23:11

taking on, you know, chances and

23:13

trying different things. And when

23:16

MTV approached me about doing a hip hop

23:18

opera, I was like, ooh, that sounds

23:21

a lot of fun. And initially

23:24

they didn't want Beyonce because

23:27

they were like, has she ever acted before?

23:29

So there were certain executives that were giving me pushback.

23:32

So so so here's

23:34

the story. So then I

23:37

have to go to New York to have

23:39

the audition there she's doing something

23:41

in New York, and I say, you know, we'll have

23:43

her audition at the MTV office

23:45

in.

23:46

New York, you know, with the big windows and all that stuff.

23:48

So anyway, she comes in and

23:51

she comes in with a bodyguard because she's in Destiny's

23:53

Child and she comes in with some A and

23:55

R woman And so when she

23:58

comes in, I

24:00

can see she's nervous, and I was like, oh my gosh,

24:02

she's nervous.

24:03

And I'm like I had seen her.

24:04

I had hosted some event in

24:07

Cincinnati with Destiny's Child, and I go, she's

24:10

really chrismatic that you know. I didn't know her name

24:12

either, like Beyonce, but I was like that girl, that one

24:14

singer is really chrismatic. You know, I could

24:16

just tell what the camera like somebody. So

24:18

anyway, I go, no, no, she should do it. And it's

24:20

like Robert, you know, you want to get an actress. You

24:22

know, she's never acted before. So

24:26

so vin.

24:27

She shows up.

24:28

She's nervous, and so I go like, oh man,

24:30

all the executives, you know, I don't

24:32

want them to think, you know, they got me on this one.

24:35

So I go, she goes, yeah, I mean

24:37

I've never acted before, and so on and so on and so on, and so

24:39

then I flipped the script. I said to the security,

24:41

to the bodyguard, I said, you're gonna be acting in the scene.

24:44

And then I say to the A and R woman, you're gonna be acting in

24:46

the scene, and then they got really.

24:47

Mister Telson, I don't act miss some towns.

24:49

You acting today, And so then he

24:52

grabs the script and he's shaking, and then the

24:55

A and R woman she's nervous.

24:56

Stephanie, I think I can think,

24:59

Stephanie yes, And so she's.

25:00

Nervous and then I see Beyonce

25:03

get relaxed, and so

25:05

then she gets relaxed. And then I

25:08

was like, Okay, so we're going to do the scene. Now, this is the scene

25:10

where you get shot. And I go, you get shot

25:12

in the hip and you're gonna turn around, You're gonna spind around

25:14

and so and so on.

25:14

And so on and so, and she goes, yeah, let's do it again.

25:17

Let's do it again.

25:18

And she had to hold those red bottoms

25:20

on rolling around the floor and her suit

25:22

and everything, and she goes, I don't care.

25:23

I don't care about that.

25:24

And we were doing it again and again and

25:26

again, and I just remember I

25:29

showed this stuff to the studio and they

25:31

were like, you're right, she is. I said,

25:33

she hasn't acted before, but I said, she does her music

25:36

videos, but this is a hip hop And so

25:38

when we were on set, you

25:41

know, the only thing, the only thing, the

25:44

only thing that got tricky was

25:47

that she was really a baby. She

25:49

had never been in a relations you know what I mean.

25:51

She was a baby that blew up. And

25:54

so she was concerned about the kiss

25:56

scene because she had to kiss Makai

25:59

Pfeiffer. And so she would be

26:01

like, I really kiss him.

26:03

I said, well, it's a kiss, you gotta kiss him.

26:05

And so then she was

26:07

just so shy because she's a baby. So anyway,

26:10

so every day she would ask me when

26:12

we were shooting, is it today? And I says, no,

26:15

the kiss doesn't happen.

26:17

Yes.

26:17

He was like, and it's like, it's day seven.

26:19

No, it's not today, you know, day eight, No, it's

26:22

not today, day fifteen,

26:24

it's today, And she goes, oh,

26:27

And so I said, just give

26:30

me a good kiss, but she is not, you know. I

26:32

said, watch me kiss my hand, and I do the whole

26:34

hand kissing.

26:34

I do the whole thing, you know, just to show her because

26:36

she wasn't.

26:37

And so then Makai wasn't

26:40

helping because he's going like right,

26:42

right, right, wait, come

26:44

on, come on girl, come on, don't be shyd, don't

26:46

be shy.

26:48

And so so.

26:49

Then you know it was it was so it was like comedy

26:51

because then A kiss him and she goes and

26:54

I go, no, no, no, no, you gotta kiss.

26:56

Him a little bit longer.

26:58

I was like, yeah, how

27:00

long, Robert, like three seconds?

27:02

Three seconds and counting hand and though she's

27:04

like, no,

27:07

no, no, you got to kiss him.

27:08

And you know, I said, give me one, juicy one, and

27:10

we're out of here.

27:11

One.

27:13

You know what I'm saying, give me juicy rock Nations.

27:15

Don't come after me that sugar Steve talking come

27:18

after me.

27:19

And so she finally does it, and then

27:21

it comes together.

27:22

But I just remember, you know, like now, when I

27:24

see her, I was like, oh, she has grown.

27:26

And when I watched her in Cadillac Records,

27:29

I mean, it's just like, you know, she's

27:31

just But I saw it back then, even

27:33

when we were in the studio recording the rap.

27:35

Did she look at any Dorothy dandrech

27:37

stuff or did anybody even.

27:40

I think I told her not to because I wasn't trying to compare

27:42

performances because she she just you

27:45

know, I could see she was a natural.

27:47

She just needed, like I said, that little switch

27:49

of the people acting opposite her made

27:51

her relax and then I saw it and then when we were on set,

27:53

it was just fun.

27:54

I wanted to ask you about a project that

27:57

it never came out, not to my knowledge,

28:00

the sunny Listing movie that you were working

28:02

on with ving Rains.

28:04

It was a very It was a company out of Canada,

28:06

so it had like a really small release. I'm

28:08

really proud of that movie being

28:11

as a hell, let me say this. Ving

28:13

Rains is an amazing

28:15

actor and he doesn't get all

28:17

the respect, you know. So what

28:19

happened was I had finished I

28:22

worked with him on the film Holiday Heart with

28:25

Alfre Woodard and she got

28:27

nominated for the Golden Globe for her performance.

28:30

And Ving he had just come off a

28:32

baby boy, but then he was playing this gay

28:34

man and I mean he was just brilliant

28:37

in it.

28:37

Brilliant, brilliant.

28:38

So after we got finished with the film,

28:41

he was he says, hey, man, I'm working on

28:43

this movie in Canada with this small production company.

28:46

It's a sunny listing. He goes, I

28:49

don't like this director. I'm spoiled because

28:51

I got to work with you, and you

28:53

know, people really love you, know working you

28:55

know, our chemistry as

28:57

a working team and so then I flew

29:00

to Toronto and we shot the

29:02

movie up there. It's available on DVD,

29:05

but it's like a small production company out

29:07

of Toronto.

29:09

Yeah, I mean I saw it.

29:10

I mean this has been years ago, Like I saw it, but I

29:12

always wondered why it never you know.

29:13

Yeah, because because there was something about

29:16

there was stuff going on behind the scenes with the money

29:19

and you know, with the production company.

29:21

But thing does an amazing.

29:23

Job the movie.

29:24

Man, Thank you so much, Thank you.

29:26

Can you can you talk about the process of Raw

29:28

because the thing is, if someone asked

29:30

you to shoot a concert film,

29:34

you really can't reinvent the wheel,

29:37

right, But is the pressure on is

29:40

there a pressure on you? Because I

29:42

mean by that point, I know that

29:44

for certain comedians in uh,

29:48

the sixties Cosby albums

29:50

are their north star prior

29:52

albums? Are you know the north star

29:54

of seventies comedians? And

29:57

you know, Delirious was pretty much like people

30:00

knew it was an instant classic the second it came

30:02

out. So in your mind, are

30:04

you like, like, what's what's the planning.

30:06

Process for.

30:09

Raw?

30:10

And you know and that

30:12

that how did you have the wherewithal to know who

30:15

Samuel Jackson was or uh,

30:18

but Richmond,

30:22

let's say Dion Richmond

30:24

or Ashley

30:28

like you have in that opening sketch,

30:30

like these are establish.

30:32

Let's see, but you know, you know what it is.

30:35

It's kind of like I have

30:37

laser eyes when it comes to casting, Like

30:40

my eyes are like laser focused. So

30:43

even back then, I'm looking

30:45

and I can tell when people really have the talent,

30:47

they really have the gift. And like

30:49

Sam, I just

30:52

knew he had something special. I could just tell and

30:54

I was like, oh, he can he can improvise, he can

30:56

do whatever. And then with the kids, Uh,

31:00

there's a reason why people are stars. There's a

31:02

certain look, there's a certain energy, there's a certain

31:04

frequency. So when I'm casting, I

31:06

cast on people's energy. And so even

31:08

back then, those baby

31:10

actors they had that little spark, and I saw

31:12

the spark with Sam. You know,

31:15

I see a lot of actors and some actors

31:17

are not magical, you know. I mean, I'm hard on talent,

31:19

you know, because I mean if I've casted

31:21

right, then they will

31:24

be perfect for the role.

31:25

If I've done my job, and you go like.

31:27

There's something extra going on, Like people

31:30

don't know that there's extra sauce going on like

31:32

like baps. For example, Natalie

31:34

who played opposite Hallie. The

31:36

studios wanted me to cast whatever black actress

31:39

was on television at that time, and it's like, well,

31:41

she's hot, she can get on the Tonight Show, she can get on

31:43

letter Men, she can get on so and so on and so on and so and

31:45

I was like, no, it's got to be about chemistry.

31:48

And she happened

31:50

to be in an acting class with

31:52

Phason Love and Fason goes,

31:54

there's this girl that's in my acting class that

31:57

I think could be perfect for your movie. And

31:59

I said, you know, I'll meet her at your house.

32:01

And we did a two hour improv doing all the

32:03

scenes from the film. And

32:06

so I was like I finished doing

32:08

the improv with her, and I was like, she's the star.

32:10

She's the one who's going to be in the film. With Halle.

32:12

I call the studio and the studio goes, Robert, Robert,

32:14

she hasn't made a movie before.

32:15

You know, what do you mean some unknown with Halle?

32:18

I said, would you just look at her?

32:19

Please?

32:19

Just look at her.

32:20

I think she's I think she's got something special. So

32:22

anyway, he says, well, bring it to the callbacks whatever. So

32:26

we have the callbacks and I'm scouting locations

32:28

that day. So I've got the top

32:31

black actresses from television, movies,

32:34

theater all waiting for a

32:36

callback. Now, I nothing

32:39

against any of them, but I need a certain chemistry

32:42

with you know, this is Hallie's

32:44

first real comedy comedy, so I'm

32:46

like, she's going to be a fool in it, and I need to

32:48

create a comedy team that we've never seen

32:51

before. So I

32:54

get there. Natalie is a nervous

32:56

wreck, you know, and I see I come in. I go, hey,

32:58

everybody, thank you guys so much. Sorry, I was running late. We

33:00

were scouting blah blah blah. And so then

33:03

I look at Natalie and she's like rabbit.

33:05

You know, And so I pull it to this side.

33:07

I say, come here, girl, come here, and she's

33:09

like, you know, like I know half these actresses

33:12

from TV and movies.

33:13

What am I doing here? Robit?

33:14

What am I doing here? This is a big mistake. I ain't

33:16

never done nothing. So anyway, I said,

33:18

would you just relax and just be cool? So

33:21

I said, don't worry about that, dude, be

33:23

who God made you to be. Just walk through that door.

33:25

So anyway, she walks through. We bring

33:28

all the other actresses in. She walks through the door. The

33:31

whole time we're sitting behind a table like this, Hallie's

33:34

on this side, executives over here, other people,

33:36

and Hallie

33:38

has the script reader read with everybody, and

33:40

she's just watching and she'll read, you know, blah blah

33:42

blah.

33:43

When Natalie comes in shaking a little

33:45

bit, she goes, Hi, y'all,

33:48

this is my first big audition.

33:50

I hope you know.

33:51

And then Hallie gets up from

33:53

behind the.

33:54

Desk and walks up and

33:56

hugs her and said, let's read together.

34:04

Okay, So this is what

34:06

I want to ask you. Advice was so when

34:10

my dad taught me how to audition musicians,

34:12

which is, you pick the simplest ballot

34:14

ever m h and make

34:17

them audition the easiest ballot ever,

34:19

like fing of something simple, like color my

34:21

World by like Chicago whatever, just something

34:24

very It's almost like Chop

34:26

six level of easy. And

34:28

he tells me, and I would say, Dad, why

34:30

why do we we got more intricate

34:33

songs in the show, like listen audition

34:35

none? He says, No, He says, because the ballot will

34:37

reveal to me, like a musician will fall

34:39

apart if he can't

34:41

just do the simple task of

34:44

you know. So it's like forget, forget the solid

34:47

and the fels and all of that. And even

34:49

now, like with my group, if I present

34:51

something really intricate, they will put

34:53

their mind power to study it, you know. But

34:55

if it's just do nothing

34:58

except this every three seconds, it's the

35:00

hardest thing in the world. What is the

35:03

director's equivalent of that in

35:05

the audition process, because in

35:08

about three months, I'm about

35:10

to go through this process and I don't know what

35:13

to look for or cheat codes to have

35:17

they have it, they don't have it, Like what do

35:19

you look for when you is there a specific

35:21

go to? Uh so let me say so.

35:25

No, no, no, no, I mean here's the it's

35:28

easy. I make it very easy.

35:29

The first thing is that I don't touch the actors

35:31

initially. I don't even you know. I said, let

35:34

me see your instincts, let me see how you see the

35:36

role. Let me just see your instincts. I

35:38

don't even direct them initially. So then then

35:40

they'll go like I want to do, and I

35:42

just go relax, breathe, breathe,

35:45

like right.

35:45

Now, breathe, breathe, breathe. Take

35:49

your time, close your eyes.

35:51

Okay, whatever is stressing you worried

35:53

about, get it off of you.

35:54

Shake the energy out, shake it out. Check it out. Check it out,

35:56

check it out, check it out.

35:57

Here we go, settle, settle, settle, settle, settle, settle,

35:59

settle, settle.

36:01

Do whatever you want to do. Here we go and action.

36:05

So now I ain't be got no weapons, no,

36:18

but but so so.

36:20

Once I see their natural instincts,

36:23

I can see if they you know,

36:25

it's kind of like probably with musicians, you

36:27

can see that little magic or little flur

36:29

or something and you go like, oh, there's something there. I

36:31

let them do that, and then then

36:34

I start to play. Then I go, oh, I love

36:36

what you're doing. Hey, can you do a be got

36:38

no weapon again? But this

36:40

time I want you to put

36:43

yours, take your glasses off and put them on, and go,

36:45

I ain't be got no weapon. And then I'll just give them like little

36:47

things to play with, and then I'll

36:50

just start. You know, it's just I'll get

36:52

on their frequency. So part of it is like getting

36:54

on their frequency because it depends

36:56

on the role. Like, oh, I had a

36:58

scene, there's a movie I did I'm really

37:00

proud of.

37:00

And it was like this little film called in the

37:03

Hive.

37:04

It's with a little retta Divine and it was

37:06

Michael Clark Duncan's last movie,

37:09

Wow, And she was nominated

37:11

for the NAACP Image Award

37:13

for Best Actress. And you know, and

37:16

the movie was so powerful and there's scenes with him and they

37:18

are so powerful. We played a scene at his funeral when he

37:20

passed. The family was like, could you

37:22

play this scene because it just showed him. But here's

37:25

my directing style. I'll give you just like a

37:27

little tibbot. So anyway, there's a young actor.

37:30

He's twenty,

37:33

but he hasn't done anything, and he's got

37:35

this monologue. He's playing a kid that's supposed

37:37

to be fourteen, but he's old. He looks really young.

37:39

So anyway, there's a scene where

37:43

it's based on a true story of this woman

37:45

in North Carolina who was

37:48

the cook of the school and when all

37:50

the kids were getting kicked out for drug Deane leading

37:53

gangbang.

37:53

And she says, I'll take them, I'll teach him.

37:55

And she starts at school with this football player

37:57

played by Michael Clark Duncan.

38:00

So anyway, the kid has a long

38:02

monologue where he's supposed to break

38:04

down and cry, and so he

38:07

couldn't cry for some reason. And I

38:09

only do like three takes. I never do more than three,

38:11

maybe four. If the camera has a bobble or something,

38:13

I only do three takes. And I was up to

38:15

twelve, and so the crew is looking at

38:17

me like rob he ain't gonna cry. We are not gonna get

38:20

it. So then then I have to dig

38:22

into my bag of tricks. So then

38:24

I say to him, I said, you're

38:27

working with Michael Clark

38:29

Duncan and Loretta Divine and Robert

38:31

Towns is directing you. I said, who

38:34

is not with us? That would be so proud

38:36

of you right now in this moment. So

38:39

he goes my aunt Betty, and

38:41

I said, your aunt Betty, And so I

38:43

said, you know what, I said, Loretta,

38:46

can you come over here?

38:46

Now?

38:46

Loretta was on Broadway and dream Girls, and

38:49

so I said, Loretta, can you sing precious.

38:51

Lord Lord we're gonna do And so

38:53

she starts to sing Pras's Lord, take

38:55

my hand, lead me on. And

38:59

so I said, you're.

39:00

Here at at Betty's funeral, And she

39:02

is so proud of her nephew

39:04

who is working on this movie,

39:08

crying, rod cameras,

39:10

roll cameras, Here we go, here we go, eighty

39:13

camera, let's go, please, here we go, background,

39:15

background, here we go.

39:16

Settle, settle, settle, settle, and.

39:19

Action.

39:20

Now here's the part he starts

39:22

doing it. The scene is perfect, he's

39:24

crying the whole thing. But this is where it gets

39:26

messed up. He couldn't stop crying.

39:32

He released so hard. He says, I had never

39:34

cried at her real funeral. He

39:36

goes, I never released, and I just

39:38

held him, you know, and like certain times as

39:40

a director, because you know, I have

39:43

the arsenal. I felt bad

39:45

because he got the performance.

39:47

I got the performance I wanted, but he had never really

39:49

released at his own. The same thing happened with Natalie

39:51

Cole when I was working on the Natalie Cole Stories

39:54

about her life and she had a monologue

39:56

and I just remember, Oh,

39:59

she had a monologue. He's talking about her father. It is

40:01

like Angel on my Shoulder for NBC. And so

40:03

Natalie she she had this monologue because she

40:05

was she's in it, performing in

40:07

it, and she's also doing the narration.

40:10

So she goes, my father was such

40:12

a powerful man when he would sing

40:14

his songs. I remember so and so and so and

40:17

so, and she did it really perfectly, and that

40:19

part of my brain where like that extra sauce

40:21

comes in. I go, I go, you

40:24

know, you

40:27

know, he really lived, he

40:30

really lived. And

40:33

she goes like h and

40:37

we go behind the green screen

40:39

and she's crying in my arms because she goes,

40:42

I forgot my father

40:44

because it's all.

40:45

Like not king cold, you know, i'nforget

40:47

about.

40:48

And then she goes like, I said, this moment here

40:50

is really about you talking

40:53

about.

40:53

That real man rather than like my father.

40:55

He was like, right, like if you've talked

40:58

about your father or your mother, whatever, you

41:00

would go my mother. You would like my mother

41:02

was And she released and then

41:05

we cleaned her makeup up and did the whole

41:07

thing, and then we did it again and it was grounded

41:09

and it was real. But it's like sometimes

41:12

like like for you, if you talk about directing

41:14

or creating and stuff, you got to get on that

41:16

frequency of the actors.

41:18

The actor was the actress was was

41:21

that? Who played her? I remember.

41:25

She was? She was really good?

41:27

Yeah? Yeah, wow?

41:28

How was it working with her? Wonderful?

41:31

Well?

41:31

I mean we had so many because

41:34

she was you know, it's.

41:35

Like when an artist lives a life and you

41:37

talk about surrounding yourself with good people,

41:40

and there were certain people in her life that were

41:42

like snakes and took advantage,

41:44

and so we would have those real conversations,

41:46

which which breaks your heart because there's

41:50

there's a constant learning curve, like

41:52

you, you got to learn this world.

41:54

You got to learn.

41:54

Okay, Hey, so and so the business manager are

41:56

okay, so and so the agent so on, So my lawyer,

41:59

can I trust them?

42:00

Oh? My best friend? Is she really my best friend?

42:02

Does she hate me? You know what I mean? Friend of me?

42:04

You know?

42:04

So?

42:05

So, you know, it's stuff like that that just

42:07

kind of breaks your heart.

42:09

You have a favorite Natic Cole song, Real Quick.

42:12

Inseparable Costa.

42:17

My mother.

42:18

I watched that movie my mother. She I think we me

42:20

and my mom just to watched that movie together, and I think about it.

42:22

Natalie Cole was her

42:25

favorite singer, and nat

42:27

King Cole was my granddad's.

42:28

Favorite sing Oh man, that was

42:30

like again, that was again?

42:32

Man, You really created those moments that like really

42:34

brought like generations together, man,

42:36

Like for real.

42:37

I heard a story from Keenan

42:40

or someone in Keenan's family saying

42:42

that initially did

42:45

the MPAA board wanted

42:49

to give Raw an X rating.

42:51

Yeah, that's true.

42:52

I did the whole story about that because basically

42:55

you asked me, like, what was the hardest thing? You

42:57

know, like, when you're working on Raw, you gotta

43:00

comedian. It's a genius and Eddie is a

43:02

genius. And so I you

43:04

know, like I talk all the time when I direct, you

43:06

know, when you cast really well, you direct like this, that's

43:08

all I do that if I've cast

43:11

really well, that's all I do. So Eddie's

43:13

a master comedian, so you

43:15

can't really direct him. You can give him notes and

43:17

make an adjustment. Hey, you could be a little bit more

43:20

animated when you do that bit. Hey,

43:22

I'm gonna be on your face here, so just give me a little

43:24

bit. So I said, you

43:26

know, but you could go a little bit further with

43:28

the body here.

43:29

So how many shows did you shoot too?

43:31

At the Paramount Theater at the Paramount

43:34

Theater in Madison Square, Regard And so we

43:36

did the two shows. So anyway, we

43:39

do the two shows, We're all excited,

43:41

happy. I put my cut together. I

43:44

showed a cut to Keenan. Keenan loves

43:46

it. We make adjustments. I show

43:48

it to the studio, the studio loves it. I

43:50

show it to Eddie. Eddie loves it.

43:53

Everything is great. We're gonna have a big hit. Studio

43:55

calls back, we got a problem. We got a big

43:57

problem. We showed it to the ratings board

44:00

and they've given it an X rating. You're gonna have to

44:02

recut everything what And Eddie was

44:04

like, nah, I ain't cutting shit, bullshit, bullshit,

44:06

and so then he goes, I ain't cutting nothing. And so then

44:09

the studios like, look, Eddie, we can't release an X rated

44:11

film, Eddie.

44:12

They're willing to work with us, Eddie. They're working to

44:14

work with us.

44:14

And so then we have to have this emergency meeting at

44:16

Eddie's house and we have the lawyers from Paramount

44:19

and the lawyers from the ratings board, and they're all around

44:21

this long table in Eddie's house and

44:23

they've counted every curse word in the film,

44:25

and you know, he's got a lawyer.

44:26

There's seventy two motherfuckers, fifty

44:28

two bitches, thirteen cunts, and

44:31

various various cocksuckers. So

44:33

let's begin and so then are

44:36

you taking that motherfucker? Are we taking that motherfucker?

44:38

How many motherfuckers for an R?

44:39

And so we go back and forth, we go back

44:41

and forth and we negotiate, and then we finally nine for the

44:43

line.

44:44

You guys had to negotiaate.

44:45

Yea then and then Eddie would get upset that.

44:47

Eddie goes like, no, no, no, I need that motherfucker. I'll

44:49

give you, I'll give you two bitches and a hope for that motherfucker.

44:52

And so we go back and forth, back and for a back and forth, back

44:54

and.

44:54

Forth, and he goes, we finally have an R. No,

44:57

this is good, this is good. This is good. I think I think

44:59

we're all there. We're almost there. And

45:01

so they go to the.

45:02

Whole thing, what is it like to

45:04

have it? And then suddenly you have to dissect

45:07

and well.

45:08

You know, I mean, here's the thing. It's part.

45:10

You know, the film is

45:13

called raw, and it really was raw.

45:15

He had you know, Eddie's a genius

45:17

man, he's a genius. So there was no filter

45:20

and it was like but it was like having a front

45:22

row to watch pure genius. I

45:24

mean, he's still that guy, he's still that guy.

45:26

So it's like watching pure genius.

45:29

I know this is kind of a ridiculous concept, but did

45:31

anybody bring up the idea of like a clean

45:33

version of raw? Like, was that even

45:35

like an option?

45:36

No?

45:38

At that point, Eddie was

45:40

so no, because see, at that point, Eddie

45:42

was so far you know, he was like he

45:44

was a rock star.

45:45

God.

45:46

What I'm saying the way you can release a song now

45:48

that's like a clean version.

45:50

And people ask

45:52

me all the time, how much did you cut out? And

45:54

it's like, yeah, we cut out

45:56

a bunch of stuff. But it was like being a surgeon,

45:59

like, okay, take this one. I'll take that fuck

46:01

out. Because he did, you know, the Italian guys grabbing

46:03

their ball, you know he did.

46:04

I mean, he was just on some just he's

46:07

a genius.

46:07

He's a genius.

46:08

But we couldn't. We couldn't do. It would have just been beep peep,

46:10

peep, peep peep.

46:12

Is there a

46:14

director's cut in your

46:17

layer?

46:18

I wish, I wish there could be a director's

46:20

cut, But I mean that was so long ago, and

46:22

then after we went through cutting, cutting, cutting,

46:24

cutting, you know, it would be a nightmare

46:26

to try to figure it out.

46:32

We can go through your entire cannon. But we be here

46:34

for twelve hours, but we got at the bear.

46:36

Yeah.

46:36

I was gonna say, you playing Ao's father,

46:39

Like, man, what is what is it?

46:41

Like?

46:41

You know, let me say this. Here's

46:46

the thing.

46:47

It is so well written, so

46:50

well directed, produced,

46:52

wonderful talent cast. So you

46:54

know, for me, you know, she's

46:57

she loves me from the parenthood. She

46:59

was like that was my growing up and blah blah

47:01

blah.

47:01

And I was like, oh, and so.

47:02

When they reached out, I was like, I'd love to

47:05

And here's the thing. I was watching the show before they even

47:07

called and said, Hey, would you like to be a part of the world,

47:09

because it's just so I just like quality,

47:11

man, and it's a quality show.

47:14

And so I don't know what's going to happen in the next

47:16

season, but you know, everybody's you

47:18

know, loving it, and I just feel blessed to be a part

47:20

of it.

47:22

Yeah. I was going to say, and we we we got

47:24

to get her on the show. I saw Bottoms

47:27

this this weekend and she's like, that's

47:29

that's the Stars Stars Born Movement.

47:31

Ban Camp thing too. She got a couple of things.

47:33

Yeah, well she is everything going doing stuff

47:35

with Tyler and all that stuff. But man,

47:39

you know, I

47:41

know this is going to be one of those things where when you

47:43

leave then

47:46

we're just going to be going back and forth, right

47:49

exactly like, did I exhaust

47:51

everything?

47:51

You're still teaching at USC, professor? Yes,

47:53

okay, And the class.

47:54

Is I'm directing mixed,

47:57

you know. Let me say you know, let let me say this.

48:00

I'm tenured at USC directing

48:02

and so so let me say this.

48:06

I think.

48:08

I'm like probably one of the few professors

48:11

where I have more students

48:13

in my class than are registered.

48:16

Ill to find out you can just go sit in, people

48:18

come people well you

48:20

know, students, you know out they

48:23

love you know, here's the thing, you

48:26

know, it's kind of like it's like.

48:29

I want everybody to live their dream

48:32

and if and and and I My philosophy

48:34

is that if you want

48:37

to direct, write, produce, you

48:39

can do it. You just got to be willing to go

48:42

the extra mile. So a lot of the students

48:44

I see their hunger like they

48:46

want it. And then sometimes there's professors

48:49

that don't know how to reach them or communicate.

48:52

And the students

48:54

that I have, you know, and I and I just feel.

48:56

I mean, you know, like like when you're a kid and you go like when.

48:58

I grow up, I'm gonna be a actor or writer,

49:01

director.

49:01

Of producer and a professor and

49:03

I'm a literal.

49:06

You know what I mean.

49:07

And so so the students,

49:10

I love it when they have their breakthroughs. And so my

49:12

babies, they're all, you know, they're

49:14

my babies, my cinematic babies, and they're

49:16

having Like one of my students, Christian uh

49:19

won the DGA Award for

49:21

a student and I was like, and

49:24

I work with that boy, and I was just like he

49:26

won, and I was like he's and he's really

49:28

good. He's really good. So so I just.

49:30

Feel I just feel blessed.

49:31

Speaking of your babies, we got to talk about your baby.

49:33

Oh Jesus, yeah,

49:38

yeah, what is it? What is it like to see her?

49:40

Her level of comedy

49:43

is frightening

49:46

because what she's like, she's

49:51

she when she jumps into those characters,

49:55

like there's I know people that can jump in the character,

49:57

especially like I've been at thirty Rock for like

49:59

fifteen years now, and so watching

50:03

people like the level of

50:05

improvisation that like if

50:07

any of those SNL

50:10

failing, like anybody in that stratosphere.

50:12

They get into a circle, they

50:14

just start improvising, like

50:16

it's the magic, like the Harlem Glupe

50:18

child is like that sort of thing. Yeah, first

50:21

of all, all your children like that, like they

50:23

all have special it's a supernatural level watching

50:26

her, dude.

50:28

And you know, here's the thing, you

50:30

know, it's it's kind of like we are

50:32

all blessed and if you walk in

50:34

your purpose, she's

50:37

been blessed with a lot of talent, I mean. And

50:40

yes, on the show, she's showing you her character.

50:42

She can go so deep, you know, like sometimes

50:44

we I'm blown away. But

50:46

she's been doing it since she was little, Like

50:49

she was a baby, Like when I used to take them

50:51

to school. You

50:53

know, we would play we called it the radio game,

50:56

and I'd be in the car and I'll just change

50:58

the radio station and whatever music

51:00

is and we go to the different stations. And so if

51:02

it's French, she'd be back there. We'd be going French

51:04

back and forth. If it was Southern so good

51:07

morning. You know, we just do characters in British

51:09

English if it sounded like the BBC. So

51:11

you know, as a baby, she was doing that. So seeing

51:14

her on the show. We just have

51:16

these beautiful moments because

51:18

I just want her to

51:21

like I because at

51:23

one point I was really hard on her and I said, let me stop,

51:25

because yeah, well I didn't

51:27

want to be the the Joe Jackson.

51:31

Maybe do that?

51:31

Boy?

51:32

Do you do that?

51:33

Damn boys, you got you better do it for the Wizard

51:35

of I. You know, you better

51:38

learn how to do that, you know, you

51:40

know?

51:40

So she So the thing is that I

51:42

pulled back and we just have the best because

51:45

she'll be working on characters and we'll just play and

51:47

it's like, you know, it's.

51:48

Like it's it's like

51:50

it's like I got a question for you, like.

51:53

As musicians

51:55

like for me, Like she has a magical

51:58

thing that she just you

52:00

know, like she just lives in that pocket.

52:02

When you're looking at musicians and artists.

52:06

Do they have to have a level of magic

52:09

that maybe somebody doesn't see?

52:10

Is there magic involved?

52:12

Here's the thing. I possess that magic.

52:14

Yes, and then you

52:17

gotta be careful in how

52:19

you use it, because one day that magic

52:22

just wound up being my job. And

52:26

I didn't realize that even though I

52:28

channeled that magic all the time, I

52:31

was just it

52:33

was the a level with so effort like Steph Curry,

52:35

like I could phone it in. I can

52:37

talk to you right now and literally do the

52:39

same performance I did on record, Like that's how

52:41

it is. The One thing I could say, like pre

52:44

pandemic was I was not in

52:46

love with music the way I was in love with it

52:48

as a kid, Like as a kid, you

52:50

know, teach us to play games

52:52

with me, like, okay, name all six commodorees

52:55

in twenty seconds, Okay, Ronald la pre Williams,

53:00

Richie Thomas McClary, Like I

53:02

was that guy. And then like

53:04

when my fan base would

53:06

suddenly like like

53:09

approach me and you know, you know there'll

53:11

be overzeals guy like yeah, you know the Japanese

53:14

B side that you did remix or

53:16

whatever. And I'm

53:18

not saying I was the guy that was easily annoyed.

53:20

I'm willing todmit now. And in hindsight

53:23

that a lot of my self deprecation

53:26

not deserving it, Like I had to maybe create

53:28

a character where it's like maybe

53:31

I felt so guilty for the positioning

53:34

that I'm in that I was willing

53:36

to psychologically disassociate

53:38

myself so like okay, yeah, I'm

53:41

like I don't care about this shit, like oh man, all

53:43

right, you know I'll be like, okay, calm down or

53:45

thank you, just say just say you're a fan, and like

53:48

I was that person. So I

53:50

actually had to learn how

53:52

to be vulnerable again in

53:55

the pandemic because that's the first time

53:57

my adult life that I did

54:00

and do anything. Like I've been on

54:02

stay since I was five with my dad and then

54:04

the roots started in high school and then so

54:07

I had to learn how

54:09

to be vulnerable again and

54:13

order to like actually love

54:15

playing music and it's

54:18

a weird thing, like it was a passion, then

54:21

became a job, then became a burden.

54:24

Then it just became I don't want to

54:26

do this anymore. It became obligation, like

54:29

all right, they need to pay their rent, so let me. I'll

54:32

still do this. But when

54:35

you have silence on your hands, like we did with

54:37

the pandemic, one

54:40

of the things that my coach therapist

54:42

said was like, you know, where's the

54:44

mind state you want to get to? And she suggested

54:46

to me, like, it sounds to me that you

54:48

were your happiest with music at the age of eleven,

54:51

So I need you to

54:54

return to that eleven year old. And

54:57

when you're like holding the world on your shoulders, you

54:59

know, you're dismissing your responsibility. I've

55:01

got time to you know, I got I got

55:04

lives to you know, take care of eleven.

55:06

Year old is why you got that, That's right.

55:08

Yeah, So I had to allow myself

55:10

the levity to be

55:13

an eleven year old. So now I'm an eleven year old again,

55:16

Like I would never be this giddy

55:18

right now twenty fifteen, you know.

55:21

Yeah, Robert.

55:23

Roberts well Man like to your point, you ask him

55:25

about magic. You know what I'm saying, is there magic? You

55:27

know with musicians? You know what I'm saying, And

55:29

there it absolutely is. And

55:32

the thing about us, you know in

55:34

our craft that I in my career,

55:36

you know, going through it, you know that magic

55:38

is elusive. You know what I'm saying, Like magic

55:40

is, yes, you feel me. So it's like if you're

55:43

working on an album. The thing with our crew we

55:45

kind of take is like, all right, if I'm working on a record,

55:48

you're gonna do some records and you're.

55:49

Gonna have one record. That's a team

55:52

that is like, yo, we bodied this shit.

55:54

Fuck you we clap like fuck

55:57

what you talking about fuck your opinion, we clap

55:59

this.

55:59

Ship up right.

56:00

If you're lucky you I mean, if you get

56:02

two ten's on an album, oh my god, but like

56:04

you're gonna get that one. So for

56:06

us, the mentality is kind of to your point is

56:08

like good is the enemy of great Yes, we've

56:11

been so we're so technically good

56:13

at what we do.

56:14

We can just pull up and do whatever and it'll be

56:16

good.

56:17

Fuck good. Good is the minimum. We're trying to get

56:19

greatness. So if you getting a

56:21

ten on one record, you feel me. If you got

56:23

a ten, it's like, Okay, we

56:26

know that's magic. We know that was you know

56:28

that was our movie Dick. Okay, we called him one

56:30

time. But if we got a ten,

56:33

we can't have nothing else on this album that's

56:35

less than an eight, because we've shown that

56:37

we can hit a ten. So you

56:39

come in here with these six and seven, funk out of here, brou

56:41

like that, ain't not see I

56:43

feel.

56:44

Glory, glory.

56:46

I feel glory, glory.

56:47

What's your return?

56:48

Like?

56:48

Off all your verses?

56:50

Little just think I'm like, so, therefore, Fonte, what would you

56:52

recommend to Robert as your ten album?

56:55

What's the what's the one.

56:56

Listening, and I know for

56:58

you the listening is almost like my things all part,

57:00

like when people say things

57:02

for all part, I've been like a man, but I've

57:04

done other albums. This is great, but I understan it's

57:06

just the thing speaks to the person where

57:08

they where Yeah, yeah,

57:11

what not what you saying? Yeah?

57:13

Because in my in my mind, I'm thinking Robert might

57:15

not really know here. He don't know what your ten

57:17

sound like, and he should probably know, so I would I would

57:20

like to know.

57:20

Yeah, oh man, like I got ten

57:22

for us, I would say uh.

57:26

On the little Brother's side, I think our

57:29

last album, made a Little Watch. That was our first

57:32

record in like ten years, and we

57:35

just had I just developed a skill set,

57:37

you know, as getting older, working

57:39

in TV, learning the language of like

57:41

storytelling, because that's essentially for me, that's

57:43

what musicianship is.

57:45

It's all story sure, and so you know what

57:47

I mean.

57:47

So working working in TV,

57:49

writing songs for TV, writing songs for Sessme Street,

57:53

doing TV stuff like that really

57:55

gave me a whole new uh skill

57:57

set in terms of telling stories. And that translated

58:00

it to like my MC and the songwriting. So I would

58:02

say Maylow Washington, Leave

58:05

It All Behind, which is the record I did with

58:07

my other group, Foreign Exchange R and B group. We were

58:09

now grant it.

58:10

Would you send me all? I

58:15

would say, the perfect gateway drug. He's

58:17

also being honest and can't be a fan of

58:19

something he's a part of. But what

58:21

he represents is kind

58:23

of like okay,

58:26

so Drake has went on record to say that

58:28

that's his hero. So Fante

58:30

came along in the period in which when the

58:32

Internet and social media and the

58:34

blogsphere was becoming this standard.

58:37

Like for you, it was pounding the pavement going to these

58:39

brick and mortar curtay houses whatever, whereas

58:42

now you can get a whole career based on

58:44

this machine. He's the first person

58:47

really take advantage of what this

58:49

device had to offer in terms of

58:51

He's made albums with people he's never met

58:53

yet in other countries.

58:55

Record I did Foreign Exchange my partner

58:58

Nikola at the time, he

59:00

was living in the Netherlands and I was in North Carolina

59:03

and Durham, and so we were just on aim.

59:05

We were on an instant Messenger and we would

59:07

just send tracks through instant Messenger and

59:10

we complete the whole album. We didn't

59:12

meet until the album was finished. Like in person.

59:14

You know, it's not just recordistic

59:18

piece. It's a classic album. So

59:20

but yeah, listen listening.

59:23

I've put up there connected our album, I'll

59:26

see you stuff. But I said all that to say, man,

59:28

you really hearing your story, Like

59:30

I don't think you understand. Man, like you

59:33

lit a fire, whether you recognize

59:35

you do or not, you lit a fire under like so

59:37

many black creators and black

59:40

artists that were like Yo, were not

59:42

waiting, fuck waiting, were not waiting on

59:44

somebody to give us a chance.

59:46

We're not waiting.

59:47

We're gonna make the ship we want to make and

59:49

figure it out how we're gonna do it.

59:50

And I think, now you know.

59:52

I mean a Robert Townsend in twenty twenty three,

59:55

you know what I'm saying, A young guy. There's

59:57

so many touls now that you know

59:59

you really don't don't need them to some degree. I mean, unless

1:00:01

you trying to make you know, fucking something with iron

1:00:03

Man in it, then yeah. But if you're

1:00:05

just trying to tell a story that's true to you, if

1:00:08

you know how to make it and you got your people, And

1:00:10

I really like what you said about how you

1:00:12

know. I mean, it was asking about the actors and it was like, yo,

1:00:14

it was my word, Like that

1:00:17

is the exact same way we run it.

1:00:18

Bro.

1:00:19

It's like everybody gets paid. You're gonna be compensated.

1:00:21

You're gonna be shown that your value for your time. But

1:00:24

if you can't, if you can't take a person that they were,

1:00:26

they signature on me.

1:00:27

Sure sir, you know what I mean.

1:00:29

So it was just you really lit a fire

1:00:31

under us, man, and like watching Hollywood shuffle,

1:00:33

like I showed that to my kids. My boys are twenty

1:00:35

two and seventeen, Like I showed

1:00:37

them that movie and they laugh

1:00:40

at it.

1:00:40

You know what I mean? So you know what I mean.

1:00:42

So I just you again, inspiration.

1:00:45

I can't it's too small

1:00:47

of a word. Like you were a fucking

1:00:50

and are a blueprint for us.

1:00:51

Thank you so much, thank you so much, thank you so much, thank

1:00:53

you so much. I don't want to take it nowhere your think he

1:00:56

gave the final thing.

1:00:57

He's an aquarius, he can't take all these compliments.

1:01:01

I accept compliments. Wait, oh,

1:01:04

you're an acquiring too, of course you are.

1:01:07

What is yours?

1:01:08

January twentieth, Yes, wait,

1:01:10

I'm right now making the obligatory phone

1:01:13

call that I have to do whenever we do a classic

1:01:15

episode. He's not going to pick

1:01:17

up. He benefollow you, Jimmy,

1:01:22

so you know, okay, so he's not going to pick

1:01:24

up. Whenever we

1:01:27

do an exemplary classic

1:01:29

episode of Quest Love Supreme, I have

1:01:31

to let Jimmy Jam know that he's going down a

1:01:33

rink. Hours.

1:01:39

We did that with Jimmy Jam was a

1:01:41

six. It was supposed to be ninety minutes. It wanted to be six,

1:01:44

three episodes, Jimmy, but then

1:01:46

the Family Stand came in and did

1:01:48

the most unexpected episode of all time.

1:01:51

This this to me, I'm

1:01:53

willing to say, this is probably the episode

1:01:56

I needed, we all need. Jimmy

1:01:59

jam is down on third place. Sorry sorry, Control.

1:02:02

Is still a great album, Yes exactly, it wasn't

1:02:04

the man

1:02:08

hold on one of my favorite seat.

1:02:10

I have to do this for.

1:02:11

Come on, man, we left

1:02:13

you alone think you was gonna leave that drinking and drugs

1:02:15

ship before we left you long,

1:02:17

thinking you was gonna come down like Harry

1:02:21

Lennox, like, I

1:02:24

love that scene, Hawthorn,

1:02:27

God, just the actors, man, oh

1:02:30

my god, big Red like.

1:02:33

I saw him doing Shakespeare at thespeare.

1:02:35

I could see that.

1:02:36

Oh yeah, he was doing Macbeth

1:02:39

and he was I think, you

1:02:41

know, and I was like, this guy could be a bad guy,

1:02:43

really good, you know, I mean he's he's a brilliant.

1:02:46

Now your eye for talent man, like seriously,

1:02:48

like we now we salute you, bro.

1:02:50

Unpaid Bill, you missed a masterpiece

1:02:53

of that list. I cannot wait to glue.

1:02:56

Are you still in contact with a marine because we're looking for

1:02:58

her to give her some flowers too. Uh.

1:03:00

I haven't talked to her, but I can get you know, because she did.

1:03:02

We just they just released Hollywood Shuffle on the Criterion

1:03:05

Collection.

1:03:05

Yes they did.

1:03:06

They did with

1:03:08

Anne Marie. So I can reach out. So yeah, I can get the I

1:03:11

can get you her number.

1:03:12

Well on be having a Faneglo sugar Steve

1:03:14

Layah and I'm paid Bill Bruh. I'm

1:03:16

sorry, Robert that one Aftershode

1:03:19

of math Man. Thank

1:03:24

you very much. We'll see you on the scow around who

1:03:26

Quest Love Supreme.

1:03:26

Thank you guys, thank

1:03:29

you for listening to Quest Love Supreme. This podcast

1:03:32

is hosted by a Mere quest Love Thompson lightas

1:03:34

Saint clair Fonte Coleman Sugar,

1:03:37

Steve Mandela and myself unpaid

1:03:39

Phil Schriman. The executive producers are

1:03:41

mere just walked into the goddamn room,

1:03:43

Thompsin, Sean g and Brian

1:03:45

Calhoun. Produced by Brittany Benjamin,

1:03:47

Jake Paine and Liah Sinclair. Edited by

1:03:50

Alex Conroy I Know Alex Conan. Produced

1:03:52

for iHeart by Noel Brown, Mike

1:03:55

Johns. Auto engineering by Graham Gibson

1:03:57

at Iheart's l A Studio. Thank You very much.

1:04:03

Mus Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

1:04:10

For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit

1:04:12

the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1:04:15

or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.