0:00

I've got a

0:02

quick quick question for you alright

0:05

I wanna hear your thoughts so

0:07

I know what's on your mind

0:10

I've got a quick quick question for

0:12

you alright The answer's not important I'm

0:14

just by the week I talk tonight

0:17

So what's your favorite? Who did you

0:19

get? What did I be in that

0:22

book? What did I do? What did

0:24

I do? What did I do? Oh

0:26

forget it! The Soren movie, Daniel O'Brien

0:29

Two best friends

0:31

and comedy writers If

0:34

there's an answer they're gonna find it

0:38

I think you'll have a great time

0:40

here I

0:42

think you'll have a great time here So

0:50

hello and welcome to another episode of Quick Question with Soren and Daniel

0:52

the podcast We're two best friends and comedy writers who ask each other questions

0:54

and give each other answers I'm on behalf

0:57

of that podcast, author of How to

0:59

Fight Presidents, a book, senior writer for

1:01

Last Week Tonight, a television show and

1:03

King of Spring, Daniel O'Brien, Joy,

1:05

ah fuck, dammit It

1:09

was such a nice big leap

1:11

and then it just ate shit And

1:17

we can't go back because the podcast is live Thanks

1:21

to Raycon for supporting Quick Question. Raycon's

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1:50

All lowercase The

1:55

King of Spring is wonderful, Daniel How has nobody thought of

1:57

that yet? I don't know. I

1:59

think it's because Because it's

2:01

me and no one has been me except me. I

2:04

feel bad because I know that you

2:06

in California, you've got a

2:09

lot of rain this year and

2:12

that's always such a bummer.

2:15

We had every single year I

2:17

get tricked by fall spring

2:19

and thinking spring has come too

2:22

early. Every year I'm made

2:24

a fool. Except

2:26

this year. It's spring and spring forever and

2:28

it's a true spring and

2:30

I'm ignoring the fact that we had our

2:33

first 60 degree day in

2:35

months yesterday and I didn't look ahead to

2:38

the weather because why would I bother? It's

2:40

spring, spring is here. Just

2:43

don't need to look at the weather to know it's time

2:45

to throw away all the big coats. I

2:48

think that speaks to your eternal optimism Dan. I think that's

2:50

a good thing. That's a good quality to have. I

2:53

do the same thing on road trips where I'm like, are

2:56

you kidding me? I remember this spot. We're like

2:58

15 minutes from there. Never

3:03

am I more delusional than when

3:05

I have a long ride and

3:07

the GPS is like 7 hours and 15 minutes

3:10

and I'm like, you're just saying

3:12

that though. It's not that. Oh

3:15

man. It

3:19

is feeling a little spring like here too. We

3:21

obviously have been having our torrential rains and

3:23

it's been cold and miserable but occasionally the

3:26

sun peaks through and I look around and

3:28

LA is never more beautiful than in the

3:30

spring after rain because it's

3:32

the only time you'll ever see the hillsides

3:35

be green here. The green hills, yeah. I

3:37

remember one of my last few years there

3:39

there was a ton of rain and then

3:41

just driving through and seeing all the green

3:43

for literally the first time in

3:45

like 9 years of living in Los Angeles just seeing how

3:47

much green. Just all that

3:50

potential green that had been hiding the whole

3:52

time. I

3:54

mean it will all be on fire Noggin but

3:56

for now it's gorgeous. potential

4:01

green another decent name for this podcast because we

4:03

thought there's to be so much money in it

4:05

and it just didn't there

4:07

just isn't unfulfilled

4:09

green yeah yeah

4:12

all right well we have something

4:14

really special today we do yeah

4:17

we it's rare there's

4:19

there's a lot of things that are that are rare that's

4:21

happening it's rare that we're doing something very topical it's

4:25

really rare that we're

4:28

gonna talk about a movie that we've seen that

4:31

we've both seen that is a recent movie

4:33

because you're on a I know a papa's

4:35

schedule of seeing movies 15 years

4:38

after they come out in

4:40

a plane half

4:42

remembered yeah so this is

4:45

falling asleep halfway through no

4:47

I'm really clear on the second act of a

4:49

movie but if I fall asleep but beginning and

4:51

end I can tell you anything yeah

4:54

and you assume most movies and

4:56

on a positive note because everyone around you in your

4:58

version of the theater class yeah

5:03

that's right it's also a dumb thing I never want

5:05

to I want people to stop doing we

5:09

got an assignment because

5:11

there's a it's

5:15

very funny that like as we're recording this the

5:17

movie that is poised to sweep box office

5:21

records dune 2 is out right now and

5:23

it's the thing that everyone's talking about and

5:25

so you know we got to cover madam

5:27

web on the pod madam web baby

5:31

don't forget about the little guy I

5:34

love like it that need the tiny spider

5:36

this movie could be forgotten but it's very

5:38

very dangerous just

5:41

before you got on the podcast I was

5:43

talking to our president of podcast operations Gabe

5:45

harder who assigned us this movie was like I

5:48

think you guys should watch this movie and talk

5:50

about it for the podcast because there are a

5:52

lot of takes on the

5:54

the web as it were and

5:57

before you got on he was like I was I

5:59

was wondering if you guys were

6:01

mad at me or if you felt like

6:04

this was an insulting assignment. And

6:06

I was like, I wasn't mad but did

6:08

you watch it? He goes, no. I'm like,

6:10

well, now I am. Now I feel like teachers should

6:12

do the homework too. It's not fair. Oh,

6:14

he hasn't even seen it.

6:16

Oh, he just liked the takes. He

6:19

liked all the takes. Yeah. That's

6:21

fair. I didn't, I wasn't actually

6:23

exposed to many of the takes because on Blue Sky, I

6:25

know we talked about shit over there. We're

6:28

trying to get your news or anything from pop culture

6:30

from Blue Sky. It's impossible. Yeah.

6:33

Blue Sky is where I go to, because

6:36

I haven't curated my Blue Sky list of

6:38

who I'm following yet. And

6:40

the algorithm is not doing

6:43

anything over there, if there even is an algorithm.

6:45

So I go there to see what you and

6:47

Josh Gondelman and my boss Tim had

6:49

to say a couple days ago. We

6:55

should also preface this by saying that Madame

6:57

Webb stars a person that

7:00

I know in real life. Her

7:03

name is Dakota Johnson and she

7:05

is one of my good

7:07

friend's sisters. So we kind of grew up with her

7:11

when she happened to be in Aston, which wasn't

7:13

all the time. I mean, she spent a good

7:15

deal of time there. It was basically

7:17

like three kids, it was Jesse, it was my friend, Al,

7:19

his little brother, and Dakota. They

7:22

were pretty similar in age and they

7:24

would occasionally be there. But

7:27

what mostly would happen is we would all go

7:29

to Jesse's, we would drink a bunch of alcohol,

7:31

and then I would sleep in Dakota's bed or

7:33

Al's bed because it was just an unused bedroom.

7:38

She is, we'll talk about the Madame Webb of

7:41

it all, I'm sure, at some point in this episode, but

7:43

she is a very

7:45

unique celebrity in her

7:47

ability to completely dominate internet

7:50

conversation. In a way

7:52

that I haven't really seen other celebrities dominate

7:56

and it's unclear how

7:59

if she... doesn't seem particularly intentional

8:02

that she is going to have lightly

8:05

chaotic press tours associated

8:07

with every film that

8:10

she does and promotes. She'll always

8:12

have something unhinged

8:14

to say in an interview

8:16

somewhere that'll just spread

8:19

like wildfire across the internet in

8:22

a way that is like really entertaining. Like

8:24

if she's doing it on purpose, I think

8:27

that's a fun way to be for a celebrity.

8:29

It's cool to be a little bit insane

8:32

and to pretend you don't know why anyone

8:34

thinks you're insane while you deliver

8:36

unhinged to take after unhinged to take. I

8:39

think there's somebody, Robert Pattinson is also somebody

8:42

who's doing that. They're just

8:44

going to make stuff up. Whatever

8:47

interview they're doing, it's not an

8:49

opportunity for them to say anything

8:51

truthful. I assume that's true of your

8:53

first press junket that you do. You

8:56

say the same thing 175 times.

8:58

At some point, both of them

9:00

just broke and they were like,

9:02

well, I'm just going to make

9:04

some stuff up then. Everything,

9:07

not even just press junkets. She did

9:09

that tour of her house and I guess

9:11

somebody came in and did some set design beforehand. She

9:13

was just commenting on all of those things as though

9:15

they were the most important things in her life, like

9:17

the limes in her kitchen where she was like, I

9:20

can't get enough limes. I love limes. Just

9:22

because some art department put a

9:24

bowl of limes in her kitchen and she's just like

9:28

a perfect improv student, just yes and did the limes

9:30

and was like, I have these limes and I love

9:32

these limes, I can't get enough limes. I

9:34

was like, man, she's nuts for liking those limes. Then

9:37

it wasn't until a few days later that she'd be

9:39

like, yeah, I had nothing to do with those limes.

9:41

What are you all talking about? I'm allergic to limes.

9:43

We're all like, ah,

9:45

why? Why did you do this? Why are

9:48

you doing any of those? She went

9:50

on Ellen and Ellen was like, they're

9:53

talking about Dakota's birthday and Ellen was

9:56

like, why didn't you invite me? And Dakota was like,

9:58

well, here, this is the embarrassing thing I did. You

10:00

never responded and like went on this elaborate Explanation

10:02

on how she invited Ellen to her birthday and Ellen

10:04

said like and Ellen increasingly is

10:07

starting to believe her Yeah, and then it's like that

10:09

gets over and everyone's like, well, did you really invite

10:11

Ellen to your brother? She's like no Went

10:14

on Ellen lied to a bunch of 45

10:17

year old women on the home full laundry.

10:19

I think she's great. I think she's awesome

10:22

Yeah, yeah, she's great. Anyway, she's

10:24

not great in this movie But That's

10:27

not her fault. I don't think no talk

10:29

about it Yeah, I want to do some

10:31

some a little bit of industry table setting

10:33

because I don't know how yeah Aware

10:36

you are of like the the Sony

10:38

Marvel Spider-Man Stuff

10:40

that's been going on. Oh, no, I'm

10:42

not I do have a lot of questions for

10:44

you about this though But yeah, you see you

10:46

set the table so like Marvel is Marvel and

10:48

they have all of the Marvel characters that you

10:50

see in Avengers and Captain

10:53

America all the movies that you bet the only movies

10:55

that have been allowed to be made for the last

10:57

20 years are all these Marvel movies and their

11:00

characters that are owned by

11:02

Marvel with

11:05

a few exceptions for the longest time the

11:07

X-Men never crossed over into the Marvel Cinematic

11:10

Universe because they were owned by I want

11:12

to say Fox and now

11:14

that ownership has shifted over to Marvel's

11:16

purview and and For

11:19

a very long time Sony owned the rights

11:22

to spider-man Specifically and

11:24

it was a it was a real Coo

11:27

when Marvel could get spider-man licensed away from

11:29

Sony and they're like you still own him

11:31

But we're gonna like we're gonna

11:33

co-own him a little bit to put him into

11:35

our Marvel movies because he is the most

11:37

popular Superhero of all

11:39

time and we are Marvel we have this

11:42

money so you can still make Marvel. Yeah

11:45

Um, it's a rare moment of

11:47

like studios saying you know what

11:49

if we just put our heads together We could just

11:52

we could just both make lots of money. How about

11:54

that and they came to that agreement.

11:56

It's Owning

11:59

spider-man Spider-Man is a crown jewel

12:02

for Sony and it's so clear

12:04

that they just don't know what

12:06

to do with it. They have

12:08

Spider-Man and all of the accompanying,

12:10

like his whole Rose Gallery of

12:12

villains too. And it's very clear

12:14

that Sony is like, we have Spider-Man, this

12:16

is a huge opportunity. We

12:18

cannot blow this. How

12:21

can we blow it though? And they've just been

12:24

like, a piece

12:26

at a time blowing it. Like

12:28

very clearly they see what Marvel has done

12:30

and they're like, we can build, there's no

12:32

reason that we, Sony, can't also build a

12:35

cinematic universe full of

12:38

rich characters from IP

12:40

that we own and control. Surely we should

12:42

be able to do this. And they made

12:44

Venom, which is like a

12:46

sort of a camp masterpiece, but

12:48

not a

12:51

movie designed to launch

12:54

a cinematic universe. It's very much Tom Hardy

12:56

is like, I'm going to make my weird,

12:59

a Tom Hardy Venom movie. I'm going to make two of them.

13:01

I might make three of them, but they're

13:03

not interested in world building or cinematic

13:05

universes at all. Marvel

13:08

also tried Morbius, which was

13:10

like famously terrible, not even in

13:12

an enjoyable way. And

13:15

now they've got Madam Web this year and Craven.

13:17

These are all like, they're, they

13:20

clearly were laying the groundwork for

13:22

like a Spider-Man

13:24

adjacent Sinister Six cinematic

13:27

universe. And they, they, they're introducing all

13:29

of these classic beloved

13:31

Spider-Man villains and side

13:34

characters, a movie at a time. And

13:36

they're just eating shit almost

13:38

every step of the way. It's

13:41

really something to behold. That's

13:43

very telling. Okay. I, this is a lot. I

13:46

didn't know. Like I didn't realize all of this

13:48

because I was like, all I knew was Marvel

13:51

cinematic universe and everything in my mind belonged to

13:53

the Marvel cinematic universe. I didn't realize that there

13:55

were competing studios that were like, well, competing is,

13:58

is maybe too... for

14:00

what Sony is doing. But that

14:03

there are like 10 people, like there's clearly

14:05

one side has gotten it down. And they're like,

14:08

okay, yeah, we know what's gonna do well. We

14:10

know what's gonna do well internationally. Like we're gonna

14:12

make a movie that people will enjoy that will

14:14

have 136 characters in it. And

14:17

then the other side is like, okay,

14:19

okay. We're gonna start with four.

14:21

Oh, fuck! Oh, I chucked on my dick. Oh,

14:23

no. And

14:26

it's really like, it's less

14:28

Sony's heart because they must think, they're like,

14:30

they must just think we've got Morbius. Morbius

14:32

is a famous character from Spider-Man. People love

14:34

Spider-Man. People like Morbius a whole lot. And

14:37

we've got Jared Leto, who's like a real

14:40

actor. We got like an actual actor who's gonna be

14:42

in our Morbius movie. Okay.

14:47

Are we missing anything? No, start the

14:49

cameras, start shooting. Yeah,

14:53

this one felt a little like that. I

14:55

have actually, we'll get to it at the very

14:57

end. But I like, the cracked side

14:59

of our brains is,

15:02

has me, every time that I know something unique

15:05

or strange in a piece of pop

15:07

culture, my instinct is to not

15:10

be like, hey, look how strange it is, is to be like,

15:12

okay, is that strangeness intentional?

15:16

And like in this case, it's a across

15:18

the board, broad strokes, bad movie. And I'm like,

15:20

okay, is there a reason?

15:23

Is there like a good reason why they

15:25

intentionally made a bad movie? We'll get to

15:28

that at the end, my now pet theory

15:30

on why this movie exists. But I do

15:32

have a lot of questions to start. Okay.

15:35

That I think you can answer. One, this is

15:39

all, like this is from comics, right? Like

15:42

these people all existed in the comics? Yes.

15:46

Okay. So, I

15:48

mean, I don't, I'm not

15:50

as deep into the rogues gallery

15:53

canon for Spider-Man. Madam Webby, the

15:55

character who my

15:57

entry point to her was the Spider-Man comic

15:59

book. cartoon show which was pretty

16:01

faithful to comic book origins. That

16:04

was. I also remember that. I do not remember her in

16:06

it. I remember War B.S. even being in it. But

16:10

I don't remember her. But okay, so

16:12

before Spider-Man even became Spider-Man, there

16:14

were already five spider people in

16:17

New York City? At

16:19

least. I don't know.

16:22

Because you've got the bad guy who dresses very much like

16:24

a Spider-Man and moves like a

16:27

spider, ceiling guy as they call him in the movie.

16:30

You've got Madame Webb who maybe no

16:33

one else can see. I'm not sure. And

16:36

then you've got these three other underlings that

16:38

she takes care of and she turns into

16:40

spider people. And they're like

16:42

very clearly spider people. One has a bunch of legs on her back.

16:45

And like that one of them

16:47

can shoot thread, like electric thread of some

16:49

sort. And

16:51

this is all when Peter Parker has just been born.

16:54

Correct. So

16:57

why is everyone so shocked about Spider-Man

16:59

when Spider-Man comes along? I

17:02

guess is my question. New York has been littered

17:04

with spider people. Yeah. I

17:07

do believe that the three spider

17:09

girls that you're talking about, we

17:12

only see them exhibit spider powers in

17:14

glimpses of the future. Yes.

17:17

But they – it can't be that

17:19

far. But this is just a product of the

17:21

movie. But like they're not adults. They're still kids

17:24

in that when they're doing all their spider stuff.

17:26

Right. I've

17:29

talked on the show before about how much I love my Raycons.

17:32

What I like most about them is that they're the

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are discreet. They're just – they're like the

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size of a Brazil nut. And you just pop them

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right in your ear, just like you would a Brazil nut.

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And they are hidden. If somebody is

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looking at you from behind, they cannot see that you're wearing

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to talk to me. I was just, in

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her mind, completely ignoring her. But to

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me, I was listening to a very

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good podcast. I don't know

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if you're familiar with it, it's called Quick Question, it's

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buyraycon.com/qq. The

19:07

movie is set in 2003. Yeah,

19:10

that's important. I think that's an important detail. That's

19:13

what some other teams think we should get to. This

19:16

movie is set in 2003 and wants

19:18

you to know it at every turn.

19:20

Like the 2003 historian for this movie

19:22

is having a field day making this

19:24

movie. There's like

19:27

some examples are like they, she

19:30

wants to go home, when she almost dies, when

19:33

Uncle Ben saves her life, she almost dies, she's a

19:35

paramedic. She's a paramedic, she almost dies, yeah. And

19:39

she says, I just wanna go home and watch Idol. They

19:42

get sad about what happened to Martha Stewart. At

19:44

one point, they, oh, Toxic,

19:47

T'Pilly's a big role in this movie. Brady

19:49

Spears is toxic, plays a huge role. Lots

19:53

of things. Now, I went

19:55

back through and like tried to like, figure

19:58

out if all this really was from 2003. And

20:01

I'm not I'm not totally convinced

20:03

it was did toxic really come out in 2003

20:05

I thought that one came out in 2004. I have

20:08

no idea man I'm

20:10

I'm I'm already I'm immediately impressed at

20:12

how much of this movie you've remembered

20:14

because I saw us Oh, right

20:17

did not retain So

20:19

much of this like even when you're talking about Ceiling

20:23

guy, I'm like, yeah Possibly

20:26

his name. It's entirely possible They

20:29

call him silly guy for a very long time

20:31

because they call him a lot There's no like they

20:34

don't do any anything with Superhero

20:37

or supervillain names. They're just like that guy

20:39

wearing a mask. That's Ezekiel. Why is he

20:41

wearing a mask? What are we doing? Why

20:43

are we pretending? He

20:47

takes off constantly yeah It

20:50

is really just like this cumbersome thing and like whatever

20:52

even in public He's just like taking it off a

20:54

lot because he's like, uh, it's not it's

20:56

not great Okay,

20:58

the reason I'm gonna give you a little bit of

21:00

table setting for how I experienced this movie Daniel Which

21:03

was in an empty theater by myself at 1130 in

21:05

the morning. And so I was

21:07

able to take notes. Oh I

21:09

was able to have my phone Go

21:13

I Was

21:15

so primed for an empty theater when I got tickets in advance

21:17

I saw that it was empty and I and it was a

21:19

Monday afternoon and I was like, this is gonna be Awesome

21:23

and my plan I had a

21:25

whole plan for the day I did an Orange

21:27

Theory class with my friend Susan and then we

21:29

got brunch and got mimosas and I'm like I

21:31

am ready For this movie even if

21:33

it's bad. I'm in a good place to see this

21:35

movie and They were

21:37

three other people in the theater So that bummed

21:39

me out and then the movie is just not

21:41

good and that bummed me out It was exactly

21:43

not that we're like saving anything from this movie

21:47

to talk about later, but this It

21:49

was my final verdict It was

21:51

bad and not bad in an entertaining way Which

21:54

was my fear going into it because they were like the

21:56

internet exploded when the trailer came out because they were

21:58

like this Might be like really? bad in

22:01

an entertaining way. And I was like, I don't

22:03

know, kids. You might be

22:05

too young to remember a little film called Morbius,

22:07

which we also thought was going to be entertainingly

22:09

bad. And it was just bad, bad. And I'm

22:11

getting a lot of the same vibes

22:14

from this trailer. And I

22:16

still went into it with an open mind and

22:18

an open heart, hoping because we

22:20

had taken good off the table. No

22:22

one was going into that here thinking, what

22:24

if it's surprise? Great. No one

22:27

told me. But I still held out

22:29

hope that maybe this is so campy

22:32

and corny that it, or

22:35

train wrecky, that it's so bad

22:37

that I get a thrill

22:40

from how bad it is. But it

22:42

was the worst possible version of itself,

22:44

which is bad in a boring way.

22:47

Bad in the confusing, not

22:49

thought out well sort of way. Which feels like

22:51

it has to be intentional. I'm

22:55

looking up toxic as well and seeing that toxic

22:57

entered at number 53 on the Billboard Hot 100

22:59

on January 31, 2004. We

23:05

got your ass, Madam Web. Drag

23:08

him to hell, Soren. Martha Stewart

23:10

was indicted. This

23:13

movie doesn't even know what it takes place.

23:15

Also they're doing a lot of weird other

23:17

stuff that's not from 2004, but

23:20

for some reason they maybe feel like it has

23:22

the atmosphere of 2004. When

23:25

they're sitting there and they're talking and they're having their fortune cookies,

23:28

this is Uncle Ben and Madam Web when

23:31

they're EMTs, and Breakfast

23:34

at Tiffany's is playing. I'm like, that's a weird choice

23:36

to put that song in here. That's from 1993. And

23:40

then at the very last song of the entire movie

23:42

is, I think it's called Dream to Me. Is

23:45

that the Cranberry song? Sure.

23:49

Okay. They

23:53

Worked so hard to make everything from 2003

23:55

and then occasionally they're just like, and fucking

23:57

this thing too. How

24:01

long? it doesn't really fit. The.

24:04

Reason to think of. Ourselves

24:06

as with Two Thousand Three as they like

24:09

the date that we take place personal I

24:11

don't know single other movie that as try

24:13

to do a period piece from the early

24:15

truth that so it's a sizes that's fun

24:17

I would have had have fun with that

24:19

as if I were working on this movie

24:21

and ah. I mean first

24:24

of all right off the bat I would

24:26

have gotten things correctly. I wouldn't have put

24:28

out a song or two thousand for like

24:30

some idiot but I also would have been

24:32

like been very aware that we're doing a

24:35

period piece on a a a year that

24:37

doesn't feel. Too. Far removed for

24:39

much of our audience and we could have fun

24:41

with that. We could do some wings to the

24:43

stupid things we were into. Two thousand and three,

24:45

whatever those might have been. I was.

24:47

That's what I once. I love this assists.

24:50

In. Two Thousand Three Daniels. We were

24:52

not good at superhero movies yet. We

24:55

didn't have it all figured out and there

24:57

were two superhero movies the came out that

24:59

year. He remember what they

25:02

were. Two thousand three I want to say blade.

25:06

Think there was a blatant two thousand and three

25:08

other was. there was an least the whole. Of

25:11

shit and. And there was daredevil. Oh

25:13

boy. famously famously bad interpretation of yeah

25:16

superhero movies like one that I think

25:18

they use his their litmus test for

25:20

like is this as bad as daredevils

25:23

So they eat duck as you sense

25:25

of like what we were doing in

25:27

two thousand through a superhero movies and

25:29

like how they. Were how

25:31

they looked like what they were

25:34

and the static and I think.

25:37

It's. Possible. Mad of

25:39

Web is a perfect two thousand and

25:41

three superhero movies. I

25:44

heard Yes, Yes, there are

25:47

so. Obsessed with two Thousand and

25:49

Three in the Movies. I wonder if

25:51

the whole movie is supposed to be a step

25:53

two thousand and three superhero movie ever Stuff I'm

25:55

trans get back in my mindset of what I

25:57

was like when I saw things like Daredevil. and

26:00

Ang leaves the whole, and I'm

26:03

like, yeah, I might've liked this. That

26:06

is such a funny bit for a movie

26:09

studio to do, where it's just like, you

26:11

got it all wrong. Remember when

26:13

you were 14, you would've

26:16

loved this. Your taste was worse, there was

26:18

worse stuff out in the world, you didn't

26:20

know how you could make good superhero movies,

26:22

grade it on that scale. Right,

26:24

maybe it's better than Daredevil. All

26:26

right, shut up. What else, you got the Matrix

26:29

Reloaded? The

26:31

same way like, photography

26:33

came out after painting and everyone was like, oh fuck paintings,

26:35

like they don't capture it. And somebody else was like, no,

26:38

there's something about paintings that's interesting, and we

26:40

should go back and revisit that. And they

26:42

explored, and they explored until they found it.

26:45

This is the beginning of that re-exploration into

26:47

what was interesting about a 2003 superhero movie.

26:51

And they were like, okay, we may not

26:53

have it yet, but like, we gotta figure

26:55

out what it is, and we're gonna capture

26:57

that again. Man, I

27:01

like that as a theory. I'm also looking

27:03

at what was big in 2003 now. The

27:07

only thing, yeah, there's one movie that really flies in

27:10

the face of that, and that's X2, which

27:12

at that point, X-Men and X2 had kind of

27:14

figured out a really great way

27:16

to do superhero movies. One that really helps my

27:18

case, though, is The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, which

27:21

feels just like this movie. Hi,

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27:40

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27:42

There are so many ins and outs and small details,

27:44

and I am not a small detail person. I

27:47

know that generally that's a cop-out, but I'm gonna

27:49

say a thing that also feels like a cop-out.

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27:55

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shopify.com/ QQ. It

29:11

was, so what

29:13

would you say, I

29:17

feel terrible if the people who wrote or worked

29:19

on this movie or your friend Dakota are

29:21

listening, I mean, she won't care. What

29:25

would you say any

29:28

of the characters in this movie

29:32

want? You

29:37

sound like a teacher who's trying really

29:39

hard to

29:42

do a creative writing class and the kids just aren't getting

29:45

it. Right. They try

29:47

like the very bare bones of a structure, the

29:49

structure of a story. And you're like, okay, listen,

29:52

there's like this super important detail they talk about a

29:54

lot in this class. And You

29:56

have not put it in your story. The

30:00

going to be as simple as breakfast.

30:02

Your main character was breakfast. I see

30:04

you're not even writing down breakfast. I'm

30:06

telling you, make it breakfast or something.

30:08

Give give your character a reason to

30:10

get up in the morning. Have.

30:13

Been wants to that can get a

30:15

usually bank has been was really care

30:17

to that I really understood this shit.

30:19

Have been. Really wants

30:21

this new relationship to work. Or

30:26

guidance Got that we are we to assume that it's Aunt

30:28

May. I think I'm A and

30:30

Ben has got somebody knew he won't

30:32

even say her name to people because

30:34

I see like matter where because Metaweb

30:36

is snarky and mean and she could

30:38

ruin it. It's

30:41

like he's just like he's just a

30:43

sigh. And. He m T but it's

30:45

not his whole life and he's just got a new

30:47

relationship and he's trying to make it work. Okay,

30:50

then bring it up. Barbecues doesn't bring around

30:52

anybody yet because he's like he's so in

30:54

love with this woman. And

30:57

she is. At

30:59

May make the famous on make

31:01

he is He is Uncle Ben

31:04

and we meet. The

31:06

Peter. Parker Is is born

31:09

in this movie and I

31:11

say are I like an

31:13

insane. Just just

31:15

poor. Dumb. Sony

31:17

is doing everything. Everything They tend to

31:20

remind us of a you like Spiderman

31:22

right? Okay, easier than yours. I know

31:24

this assesses like the movie. Or

31:27

baby Spiderman we don't know anyone

31:29

likes anything of their sit. only

31:31

get a spider man who has

31:33

that are doing well. Why not

31:35

hours of of of of yeah

31:37

it's a hit. I just soon

31:39

as they have a script. Into

31:42

this movie. But there's like there's some really confusing

31:44

things that happen in there. were like there's no

31:46

way that made it past several different eyes. Like.

31:49

Yeah there's jokes and that the are actually the don't

31:51

make any sense like there or go back to the

31:53

scene where like they're sitting there and they're eating. Of.

31:56

Fortune Cookies. Of Uncle Ben. And

31:58

and matter where, when they're. Empty. and don't go

32:01

through like looking at their fortunes and that supposed

32:03

to be like a premonition for the fact that

32:05

she can see the future. By the way, matter

32:07

where ya know who that is. She's a woman

32:09

who for mom went to the masonic up the

32:11

bag o special spider sense or sixty the future

32:14

as young as you can change. it's. Like

32:17

and idol. Ah

32:22

adds a sit as lives lady that they

32:24

took the one spite of empowered. it's like

32:27

premonition like that he could. He has the

32:29

spidey senses you like as early spider thing

32:31

but I'll I'll buy it is a while

32:33

the other stuff as civilly not and ah

32:35

that's the one that's the most spidery. make

32:37

a hotline a women out of the as

32:39

you can see the future and away where

32:41

she like real lives it a few times

32:43

and she can also. See. Just sort

32:46

of learned/decides by the at a movie or

32:48

by the way I have another power and

32:50

as I can be and of fi places

32:52

at once if I want right were way

32:54

more useful as I'm like size I'm watching

32:56

movies at in a theater that's filling up

32:58

with water and I'm drowning I've just made

33:01

with my last breath I'm like what do

33:03

you mean. Is that

33:05

also like Isis fighters as

33:07

a multiple of the galaxy.

33:13

Okay, where were times? where? Where's that? I

33:15

kind of understood. I'm. Is.

33:19

Is. Equal is very clear to me he

33:21

also like a spider can see into the

33:23

future. And Ah sees his own

33:26

death. He's an older man and it's

33:28

a hands at the hands of these

33:30

three teenage girls who a in his

33:32

vision they're much older and their spider

33:35

people and they kill him. Ah. He.

33:37

Stepped back to the present. Any like these

33:39

three girls grow up to kill me. I've

33:41

got a a minute I've seen. Terminator two

33:43

are going to kill them when they're small.

33:45

So. They can kill me later. This

33:48

is his motivation for the entire movie.

33:50

I think. Ah

33:52

and I understand that as motivation. I understand

33:54

not wanting to die and and being like

33:56

I didn't interest in the but right now.

33:58

Ah, beyond that, I don't think. Actually

34:00

know. What? He wants what

34:02

do you what he wants as a as

34:05

a of person he was be really wanted

34:07

to get the spider in the beginning of

34:09

the movie in of in the Amazon and

34:11

get spider the one of a spider powers

34:13

ah i don't know. What

34:16

is ideal world apart from the

34:19

one where he gets to live

34:21

longer. Than. He thought

34:23

what is he didn't do with his

34:25

time. The. Movie is not interested

34:27

in exploring what he what he will

34:29

do with his life and has just

34:31

been a rich guy. Yeah is is

34:33

to his what he wants us to

34:35

just build. A rich, healthy

34:38

guy? Css, don't we all

34:40

want Daniel specific? The. Yeah

34:43

at at this not clear to me what. What?

34:47

Any of the are or even. Madam.

34:49

Web Like I don't know quite what. Oh

34:51

by the way, her last name really as

34:53

Web. Yeah, her name is Cassandra Web Some

34:56

was that the I'm I'm studied spiders. It's.

34:59

It's it's. great. I

35:02

don't hire what. Seat. She is

35:05

an empty but even even that

35:07

unlike perceived. As

35:10

even wanna be that she doesn't seem

35:12

when she gets enjoyment out of anything

35:14

in the world and most of my

35:16

friends seem to hate her. She's single

35:18

and not particularly interested in not being.

35:21

Single. I don't get the says, but she's

35:23

like hung up on a man anywhere. or. Or.

35:26

That the lack of a man is

35:28

leaving her unfulfilled, It just doesn't. Make

35:31

any big. Like everything else in the movies,

35:33

it doesn't matter, it doesn't shoot em up.

35:35

Not that I think the movie would be

35:37

better if is a symbol of horny for

35:39

someone or was it was like like or

35:41

that was like another obstacle in her path.

35:43

I just would like. Give.

35:45

Me something if she had a sweet family friend who

35:47

was like. If. You had a vision

35:49

of those little girls were going to die. You should protect those

35:52

little girls. Trust. Me: I'm

35:54

sweet. Here's what I would: I write

35:56

it. If I could have written this movie, I would have.

35:58

Put Dakota Johnson. In a position

36:00

where she. Is. Feeling very out

36:03

of touch like it's the first time

36:05

in her life where she's felt like

36:07

she's aged out of was interesting and

36:09

pop culture liked. her fingers no longer

36:11

on the pulse which is a feeling

36:13

that every single person gets like that

36:15

their the generation that has moved past

36:17

the most valuable player and she's like

36:19

little stressed out about that and like

36:21

the kids like the get there's a

36:24

girl who flips or off when she's

36:26

driving or ambulance. my greatest very go

36:28

theres or touchdown and. And after

36:30

that point like it's just like her missing

36:32

only kind of fumbling attempts to like we.

36:35

Established The Seas Young the sea is

36:37

a she's on it and this his

36:39

hip as not working and then she's.

36:41

In. This world where she has to save

36:43

his two young girls. And what an opportunity

36:46

to see if because now she's got these

36:48

three kids who are forced to be around

36:50

for all the time and and send you

36:52

can solve it that way. I.

36:55

Thought it was. A

36:58

good opportunity. That

37:00

the and I I credit this adjust

37:02

to Dakota Johnson's whole vibe and not

37:05

anything that the the movie did on

37:07

purpose but. She has

37:09

to protect these three girls because he saw. In

37:12

a in a vision of a future that as

37:14

Eagle is trying to kill the three of them

37:16

and so she just makes her mission to protect

37:18

them from. Ah though movie

37:20

made with the rest of their

37:23

lives are it's unclear and the

37:25

decision that I like is. What?

37:27

If. But. Spiderman fucking

37:30

hated the people he had to save and

37:32

that's what I am not a fan of.

37:34

Past the game they play with her is

37:36

that see life as mad as he has

37:39

these powers that he could see the future.

37:41

The only thing she's ever seen is that

37:43

these these girls eat shit and like I

37:45

guess I'll take care of them but but

37:47

I fucking hate them. I'm not trying to

37:50

be sorted mom to these girls. I don't

37:52

like them stay to like her either. Was

37:54

just released for us and if if the

37:56

movie had realize that. early

37:58

and not i don't Sometime in post they

38:00

could have made the whole movie about that.

38:03

They could have made the whole movie It's

38:05

a road trip. It's Terminator 2 where the

38:09

unfeeling sarcastic cyborg is

38:11

unfeeling sarcastic Dakota Johnson

38:13

and annoying

38:16

bratty teenage boy is three catty

38:20

girls and I guess two catty girls in

38:22

one nerd Maybe

38:25

I mean Casting

38:29

Cindy, sweetie is a nerd is like the

38:31

word. Yeah Possible choice you

38:33

could have made I don't

38:35

buy it from the I was healing spoken in the movie and

38:37

she I'm like no No, that

38:40

girl does cocaine I

38:44

like that version. I like that version of the movie. That's a fun

38:46

game to play yeah,

38:49

they didn't really explore it too much they and

38:51

if that's not the The

38:54

point of the movie or the heart of the

38:56

movie and it's just like a flavor of

38:58

it then it seems weird because they don't

39:00

spend enough time on it to make it

39:02

seem intentional and When it's

39:05

in there, it's just like a garnish like

39:07

hey pause the movie. Why do you hate

39:09

these girls? And if you hate them like Let

39:12

them die. It's nice Yeah,

39:15

I know any not what superheroes are supposed to

39:17

do but I know it's 2003

39:19

you don't have superheroes yet Just let them die. You're

39:21

an EMT It's

39:24

also clear that like they just didn't know

39:27

Yeah, they didn't know what they wanted this movie

39:29

to be in any way Like

39:31

no at no stage So like I think there's

39:33

maybe no direction either for a lot of these

39:35

characters which you feel really bad for you've acted

39:37

in things before and you know what it's like

39:39

to really like It's

39:42

a very vulnerable thing to do to act in

39:44

something because you have to look like you're trying

39:46

your hardest and doing your best And

39:50

like and you don't really know what that thing's

39:52

gonna end up being because you're such a small

39:54

cog in the final product and So

39:56

like it's such a commitment and a

39:58

vulnerability like you're handing over because you

40:00

are the face of it. And

40:03

then to get fucked like this is really, I

40:05

feel really bad for like the young girls in

40:07

it who were they

40:10

this for all of them, maybe I don't

40:12

know. It looks like their first movie other

40:14

than Sine Sweeney. And I don't

40:17

recognize them from anything. And so like they're just like,

40:19

this could be my launch pad.

40:22

This is gonna be yeah. They

40:25

had every reason to think when someone

40:27

approached them and they're like, we're making a

40:30

superhero movie, a Spider-Man extended universe

40:32

movie. And these

40:35

three girls, you

40:38

are the future of

40:40

this of this spider universe. Like they had every

40:42

reason to think this is their

40:45

Chris Evans as Captain America

40:47

first Avenger moment. They could

40:49

see their next 15 years

40:52

of movie making and

40:54

and building out this universe,

40:56

because again, on

40:59

paper, it seems like they've

41:01

got all the right ingredients. We've got a major star

41:03

who's going to be in this famous

41:07

IP that's connected to Spider-Man.

41:10

And that means we're going to have the budget to make

41:13

whatever movie we want to make. And

41:16

again, spider, spider, Marvel, Marvel, Marvel. That's

41:19

you. Anyone

41:21

would take that job really thinking,

41:23

this is it. I've just solidified

41:25

my future. All the

41:27

right all the ingredients are here for the

41:30

next phase of superhero movies.

41:32

Right. Right. And

41:36

it's not gonna happen for them. It's not gonna happen. But

41:39

that's I know I just explained it like the on paper of

41:41

it all. But it's still, it's

41:44

so strange to me. I think we've

41:46

talked about this before. Like, what

41:50

did Dakota think she

41:52

was signing on to? Yes, that's a

41:54

great question. I think about that with

41:57

like every actor, especially four

42:00

actors who were announced for Fantastic

42:03

Four movie and

42:05

they're all great actors. A script

42:08

isn't written yet. You have so much faith

42:12

in this weird Hollywood

42:15

machine that's like, yeah, I

42:17

will agree to make somewhere

42:20

between three and nine Fantastic Four

42:22

films and just play

42:24

this character forever. Sight unseen

42:26

with a script. Right. With

42:30

no script rather. It feels like a curse. It

42:32

feels like a monkey paw wish. Like it's

42:35

such a... at this point we

42:37

know. We know Chris Evans is miserable. If

42:40

we know, even if it works, it's still it's

42:42

still bad. Either you're in a really bad movie

42:44

and it doesn't work and then you're... it's

42:46

an embarrassment or it

42:49

works and you're that

42:51

forever. Yeah. I...

42:53

maybe you got this in... I was trying to figure out like why they...

42:57

why the film didn't have all this

42:59

like fun stuff. Like there's... it didn't have a

43:02

real game to play. Didn't have like a

43:04

real thread that ran through the... thread. Real thread that

43:06

ran through the entire thing. And I

43:08

was like, well I don't think there was room for it

43:10

because at some point they decided

43:12

the idea of Madame Web was very

43:15

very complicated and so they explained who

43:17

she is. The whole

43:19

movie. The whole movie is dedicated...

43:21

it's so slow in terms of like how

43:23

they step everything out. Her discovering she can

43:25

see the future takes forever.

43:28

Yeah. She has

43:30

like four different experiences where she's like,

43:33

what was that? I have no idea what's going on.

43:35

It's like, no you see the future. Just call them

43:38

zombies. Like it's like that... that... like we already know

43:40

we're ahead of you. Get to where we are

43:42

and then let's like have a fun movie. And they

43:44

just don't. They're like, no. I don't know if you

43:46

guys know this but I bought a ticket to

43:48

this movie on purpose. I wanted

43:51

to see a Madame Web movie so if

43:53

you could just start being one at any

43:55

time. Even I... That would be great. Even

43:58

me. A fucking idiot. who has no idea who

44:00

Madame Web is. I didn't know

44:02

she could see the future. The first time she

44:05

starts to, I'm like, good. She can see the

44:07

future and that's her power. Let's see what happens

44:09

now. But no, we have to like, we just

44:11

do it over and over again with and

44:14

like in the most menial ways, like being

44:16

in a baby shower. She's

44:18

a baby shower scene was so strange. She

44:20

sees the future in the baby shower scene.

44:23

We learn in the scene that like, she

44:25

hates all of her friends and they hate

44:27

her. It's really unclear why anyone has her

44:29

around and

44:31

they also do one of the many

44:33

Peter Parker reveals where

44:36

someone is about to say the name

44:40

of the baby that she's gonna have, which we all know

44:42

to be Peter Parker. And they like, like

44:44

a car horn goes by and hunks when they

44:46

say the name. So we, the audience don't

44:50

hear it. And we just sort of like a

44:53

cute little Easter egg for us. But that

44:55

was like, again, I, paused

45:01

the movie in the theater while my foot was

45:03

caught in a bear trap. And I was like,

45:05

excuse me, who's this part for? What are you

45:07

doing? Why are you doing this part? Why aren't

45:09

we allowed to know his name? We know his

45:11

name. We don't care. That

45:14

baby is not the character that I like yet. Are

45:17

they maybe not allowed to say Peter Parker?

45:19

No, no. They

45:22

must be able to. Two

45:26

words in tandem cannot be used. And then there's

45:28

just like lawyers standing by the writer through like

45:30

looking through the glass window, shaking their finger. I

45:34

do. Maybe the other theory that I

45:36

have that is just now coming

45:38

to me is that this, this

45:40

is part of Sony's monkey

45:42

paw deal with Marvel.

45:44

That they thought they were so smug a couple

45:47

of years ago when Marvel comes begging for their

45:49

Spider-Man. It's like, ah, you need us. And

45:51

we're gonna co-produce these movies. So Sony gets

45:53

money too. And We get to benefit

45:55

this Marvel thing. And We own all these other characters.

45:58

And Marvel was like, yes, all right. We

46:00

we agree to your terms but. For.

46:04

You to have one of our writers write all of your. Spiderman.

46:07

Extended Universe movies like Maybe Marvel

46:09

is standing over their shoulders, subtly

46:11

making every decision a little bit

46:14

worse every step of the way,

46:16

so so you can just never.

46:18

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47:36

dead. There are. Now.

47:38

As so much written down but it's all got these

47:40

as claims at the end of like like a what

47:42

a. Thorough

47:45

Their little. Details in the

47:47

movie where I was like I had to

47:49

stop from exotic. Wait a second. What? What?

47:51

Third, One. Of the first

47:53

ones was yeah they're sitting down bed

47:56

and and decoder sitting down having chinese

47:58

foods that check their fortune cookies. Ben's

48:00

got something that's I don't know like a fuck off

48:02

fortune and then she's got one that's like unclear because

48:04

it says you are and then it's or

48:06

you will and then it's like a scrubbed

48:09

out. It's like clearly the sensor typo. And

48:13

Ben has a moment where he's like, you

48:16

know what this means, don't you? And she goes,

48:18

what? And he says, it means their

48:20

printer is broken. We can't eat here anymore. Like

48:23

as a joke. Yeah. And then I

48:25

was like, wait,

48:29

how is that a joke? It's

48:31

delivered like a joke. Sounds like

48:33

it's supposed to be a joke. It's said by a funny

48:35

person. How

48:38

would their printer being broken, just

48:40

exclude them from ever eating there

48:42

again? What? And

48:46

there were a few of those in there where I was just like, I

48:50

don't understand the logic. And like some of them,

48:52

some of it's load bearing, like the kids deciding

48:55

to leave the campfire and

48:57

go to a diner

48:59

doesn't make any sense to me. Like

49:01

you send one kid to the diner and get some

49:04

food and then bring it back. Or

49:06

you like, you

49:09

go get it, you leave immediately. Like there's such a weird

49:11

thing where they're like, we have to go to a diner.

49:13

I don't have any money. None of us have any money.

49:15

Wait, I have some money. It's like, well, what? Hold on.

49:17

Why do we do all that? Just pretend that money exists.

49:19

Like it's not an issue in this movie. And

49:22

then worst of all, Daniel, they leave

49:24

the fire. There's just a

49:26

burning fire in the middle of the woods. I

49:28

don't know how any of them made it. None of them seem like

49:30

they're capable of that. I think they hate the fucking woods, all of

49:32

them. And they somehow made a fire

49:35

because at some point the movie was like, and

49:38

you know, they're out in the woods. They should have a

49:40

little fire going. And these

49:43

girls just walk away from this burning,

49:45

like fully burning fire. And I'm like,

49:47

no, no. I completely forgot

49:53

about the fire. I

49:57

was hung up on them just being abandoned in the woods

49:59

by Dakota Johnson. And one of her flare

50:01

ups of, I don't actually care if these girls

50:03

live or die. Yeah. When

50:06

they're like, we don't have any food, we're stuck in the woods.

50:08

And she was like, well, I hope

50:10

you guys are good at foraging for squirrels.

50:13

And then she leaves. I'm like, was that a joke?

50:16

I do need to eat. You

50:20

are leaving. She

50:27

says, give me three hours, which is super

50:29

weird. Yeah. Because she's like, go solve all

50:31

of this. And she has to drive all

50:33

the way back to the city, which I'm sure is going to take an

50:35

hour of that. If she's driving back to the

50:37

city in a cab, she's stolen. She

50:40

just owns for the rest of the movie then. And

50:43

she's allowed to own it because she took the license

50:45

plates off. And at that point, the rules are it

50:47

can be anyone. She parts it

50:50

at an airport. This is like a stolen vehicle that

50:52

they know the girls are traveling in. And like, they

50:55

set the stage a little bit more. Like Dakota is

50:57

already in trouble because there's

50:59

a manhunt for her because they think she kidnapped

51:01

these three girls. Because

51:03

of paper, she did. Yes.

51:05

That is what happened. And

51:08

she's in a taxi that she stole.

51:10

Then she takes to the airport, parts of

51:12

the airport, goes to Peru for a little while,

51:16

comes back, gets her car

51:18

back and keeps driving it,

51:21

which all like hilarious stuff. But

51:23

they actually hung a lantern on it and

51:25

said like, and showed you that

51:27

it was funny. But they make no, it's

51:29

so fucking lazy at every turn. I

51:33

feel like I think

51:37

I'm trying to think if I'm in this movie, how

51:41

I would realize it was going to be bad.

51:43

Or like if anyone can ever do that in

51:46

movies. Which I'm more

51:48

and more, I'm not sure anyone can.

51:52

I feel like one sign if I'm in this movie and

51:56

they introduced me to the French actor

51:58

who plays Ezekiel, the big bad guy

52:01

even shaking his head yeah he's ready

52:03

to his hand I'd be like oh

52:05

no you're not a

52:07

famous actor this is gonna be one of

52:09

the bad ones isn't it you're

52:13

not a Willem Dafoe type we're fucked

52:15

okay yeah I have a big question

52:18

about him have you heard him interviewed or anything like

52:20

that no does he exist

52:22

outside of this movie yes I mean

52:24

I was just just googling him for

52:26

the purposes of this conversation yeah he

52:29

was made famous

52:31

in some like 2009

52:33

French film so it's

52:37

possible he's a very good actor I've never seen

52:39

him in anything I would love to see

52:42

movies he's done I have nothing I

52:45

need to I want to hear him speak

52:49

be like a peek behind the curtain he's not doing

52:51

a performance or anything just speak in

52:54

English and hear what his

52:56

accent sounds like because this feels

52:58

like a very affected weird

53:00

it sounds like somebody from another country

53:03

trying to do an American accent mm-hmm

53:06

and it's really it throughout

53:10

the entire movie it was so distracting I couldn't

53:12

focus on anything first of all cuz I felt

53:14

like he's supposed to be Peruvian that's where we

53:17

first introduced to him is in Peru and

53:19

he's like he's the hired muscle essentially

53:23

and I don't and then like throughout the

53:25

rest of the movie he's doing an accent

53:27

that is not South American in any capacity

53:30

and I was like why are we where are we what is

53:32

this guy is this

53:34

a choice like did he choose to do

53:36

this and if he did that's another moment

53:39

where like you're on set and you're acting

53:41

against him and he starts doing this and

53:43

I don't care how much time it takes

53:45

for me to get the girls and you're

53:47

like oh no he's

53:50

made a choice and then the director's not

53:52

saying anything oh this

53:55

is bad this is gonna be one of those he No,

54:03

I have no way that that sentence is going anywhere. I

54:05

have nothing to say about this person. I

54:07

don't think he was good in the movie. I don't blame him

54:09

for that yet. It's totally possible.

54:12

I just did

54:14

a very insulting

54:17

impression of his actual accent.

54:23

In that case, I'm sorry, guy who is stealing guy.

54:27

I didn't mean that. But man,

54:29

is it it's rough and it's like I'm saying

54:31

the other thing is don't cast him if that's

54:33

like the good if that's his actual accent. Don't

54:36

just don't cast him in the role. Get a Peruvian.

54:38

Well, wouldn't that be interesting if the

54:40

person who's from Peru is Peruvian? There's

54:45

also – okay, I have another Spider-Man related question for

54:47

you. Does Madame Web have some

54:49

– is there something

54:51

with umbrellas with her? Does

54:53

she carry around a big red umbrella? I

54:57

don't remember. My

55:00

memory of Madame Web from the

55:02

cartoon that I watched 25 years ago

55:05

is that she's a much

55:07

older person and she is

55:09

blind and wheelchair bound,

55:12

but just knew like

55:14

– there's

55:17

no way this is true. Just

55:19

knew about all the Spider-People specifically. It wasn't an

55:21

ability to see the future. It was just like

55:23

I know all the Spider-People, Peter. You're

55:25

one of them, so I know you. Am

55:34

I a hero? Am I a villain? I don't know. What

55:37

could I even do with this information? It doesn't matter. I

55:40

didn't know that Madame Web canonically

55:42

was blind and I get

55:44

the sense that the people writing this movie also didn't

55:46

know that she was blind. So

55:49

at the last second, they're like, oh wait, she's supposed to

55:51

be fucking blind? All right, we got

55:53

to come up with a way to blind her. She gets

55:55

blinded by – she's underwater and she gets blinded by a

55:57

firework. I

56:00

just... Such

56:03

a weird cop-out like you

56:05

have those opportunities to build

56:07

this universe where you have a very pivotal

56:09

moment where like Determines

56:12

who the character is like think of even Daredevil

56:14

Daredevil did it right? Daredevil knows that when you

56:16

become blind That's a big deal. You should this

56:18

should be some big crazy event Not

56:22

an underwater firework. Yeah, it's

56:24

very funny because my dad saw it my parents

56:26

saw it on

56:28

their own and I was talking to my dad about it

56:30

and he Is

56:33

like a good audience member generally he in

56:36

that he'll he'll he'll like a movie. He'll

56:38

just enjoy himself But

56:40

he didn't like this one and then in our

56:43

conversation he goes Why

56:45

is she blind in the end? Fantastic

56:50

question, it's a really

56:52

really good question like every Audience-goer

56:55

should ask that question and I even

56:58

like My

57:00

dumb answer doesn't even make sense. My dumb answer is

57:02

like well in the comics. She's blind Still

57:05

though who cares like it doesn't

57:08

seem like it's particularly important to the character. Otherwise,

57:10

they would have brought it up sooner Yeah

57:15

And and also juicy like you've got it somebody

57:17

who can see into the future It

57:19

can only see premonitions in the future, but can't actually

57:21

see in real life. You've got like a modern-day Taresias

57:24

Yeah, get to how that happened No,

57:28

not important That's

57:33

there's just a couple of like little things

57:35

that I need to address in this movie

57:37

sure Dakota

57:40

Johnson is an EMT and never wears gloves for

57:42

her job. She's constantly got blood all over her

57:44

hands Such

57:46

a fucking dangerous thing I

57:50

Don't know why She does not

57:52

just wear some clothes It's funny to think

57:54

if you were in an accident and she was your

57:56

EMT and you saw her approaching you'd be like No,

57:58

no, no. Thank you. That's one No, this one

58:00

please. No, thank you. The

58:03

other. So that one looks, Ben, he said the

58:05

name was Ben. That one looks faultless. I

58:10

was amazed at how

58:12

pregnancy is represented in this movie because

58:14

you have two people who

58:16

are pregnant. Both Madame Webb's mama and then

58:18

also Peter Parker's mama. And in

58:21

both cases- Hey, can you not say that? I

58:23

don't like when you say that. Moma? Yeah.

58:27

Moma? That's

58:29

bad. I think it's bad. Peter

58:32

Parker's a mother. And

58:36

in both cases, pregnancy looks

58:39

like it's pure pain. I

58:42

mean, they're constantly having these contractions

58:45

when they're not even like due any time soon.

58:47

Like when- I'll give you an example of Madame

58:50

Webb's mom when she's like hunting spiders in Peru.

58:52

She is further along than maybe you

58:54

would like her to be when she's out

58:56

doing some sort of expedition in the Amazon. But

58:59

she's like- I won't put- she's like,

59:01

ahhhh! Like with some deep pain. And

59:03

Ezekiel's like, are you okay? And

59:05

she's like, yeah, it's just the baby's fighting me

59:07

every step of the way. And you're like, no,

59:10

that's not normal. That's not healthy. Babies don't do

59:12

that. And

59:15

Peter Parker's momma- I should have

59:17

phrased that question differently. Are you having

59:19

that baby currently? Because you're making birth

59:22

changes. She wasn't.

59:24

She was just like, occasionally my baby

59:26

gives me crippling pain. Just short bursts.

59:31

And Peter Parker's momma has the same deal

59:33

where she like gets a few like just

59:36

like weird pangs long

59:38

before the baby ever comes. And

59:41

you're like, I don't think anyone in this- making

59:43

this movie knows what pregnancy is like. Or

59:47

you didn't look it up. You were just like, no, every once in

59:49

a while it's like getting shot in the stomach. So

59:53

like right around the second trimester you'd get these

59:55

gut shots every once in a while. No

59:58

one could functionally be pregnant. pregnant in the world. It's

1:00:01

too painful. And lastly,

1:00:03

Daniel, I stood up at this moment

1:00:05

and threw my hands in the air

1:00:08

when it's been – so

1:00:10

the girls just appeared with Dakota. It's

1:00:13

been probably like two or three hours and

1:00:16

they go out to the woods. She said it's going

1:00:18

to be another three before she comes back. They abandoned

1:00:20

that spot long before then to go to the diner.

1:00:23

So all told, from the time that they are, quote,

1:00:27

kidnapped to the time when they're in the

1:00:29

diner and recognized, five

1:00:32

hours tops. The

1:00:34

reason that they get recognized is because a guy is

1:00:37

reading a newspaper and they're on the front of it.

1:00:42

And I was like, no! No!

1:00:46

Newspapers dark that fast. He

1:00:49

could have been on – and he could have done anything. He could have been

1:00:51

on his phone. Like it could have been so

1:00:53

– The producers of this movie knew

1:00:56

2003 was the past and then they

1:00:58

lost their minds on what that meant

1:01:00

specifically. How

1:01:03

did we even get the news back then? That's

1:01:06

right, the hourly newspaper that we all

1:01:08

read. There could have been a

1:01:10

camera in the diner because there's

1:01:12

a woman, Shoshana, from Girls has access to

1:01:14

every camera all over. Is it Shoshana? Is

1:01:17

that who that one is? Oh,

1:01:19

yeah. She was in the movie. That's

1:01:24

David Mamet's daughter, God damn it.

1:01:26

David Mamet's daughter is in it

1:01:28

and has no resolutions. Also

1:01:31

somebody who clearly has no want in the movie

1:01:33

who's just like helping this bad guy for no

1:01:35

reason with

1:01:38

the same technology that we found

1:01:40

in Batman. Dark

1:01:43

Knight? Yeah, Dark Knight, where they

1:01:45

can see every camera everywhere all over the

1:01:47

city. And so you just put that in

1:01:49

the diner. Easy, easy, easy to do.

1:01:53

But Shoshana is like a computer hacker,

1:01:55

maybe. And

1:01:59

she needs no resolution. Once the guy dies, we

1:02:01

never hear from her again. She didn't pack up her

1:02:03

stuff and leave. She's

1:02:06

just gone from the movie. Right. No

1:02:08

jail for her. No, she's fine. The

1:02:11

technology is still in that hotel, in that

1:02:13

apartment. This

1:02:16

movie certainly did make me curious

1:02:18

for the next movie in Sony's

1:02:21

doomed Spider-Man universe. Given the

1:02:23

Hunter coming out. And

1:02:27

again, it's

1:02:30

on paper. Okay. It's

1:02:33

got a character that we know and Aaron

1:02:35

Taylor Johnson is a fucking great actor. I

1:02:37

love seeing him do stuff. They

1:02:39

got Russell Crowe to be in it. That's

1:02:42

when I'm like, hmm, this doesn't mean

1:02:44

what it used to mean. This

1:02:47

kind of thing used to be harder to get. Now

1:02:49

it's very easy to get. You

1:02:52

didn't get beautiful minds. You got the Pope's exorcist. Yeah,

1:02:59

Russell, they're not really beating down

1:03:01

his door to make Gladiator

1:03:03

2 right now. Movies,

1:03:09

you know? Yeah, well I hope Craven is

1:03:11

better. I do really like that actor. I mean I like

1:03:13

two people in this an awful lot. I like three people

1:03:16

in this an awful lot. There's three actors in this, so

1:03:18

I'm like, yes, great. This sounds wonderful. I

1:03:20

like those people. Put them in a movie together. I know. We

1:03:26

talked about this in this episode, but

1:03:28

it's so acting

1:03:30

just seems so scary that you

1:03:32

spend your time making this movie and you

1:03:34

don't really know what it's going to be.

1:03:37

You have no idea. Then it comes

1:03:39

out and it's bad and you're just like, oh, bam, I'll try again. For

1:03:43

a lot of actors, that's just got to be the

1:03:46

complete nature of this business. They

1:03:48

don't necessarily have bad taste or

1:03:50

pick bad projects. Sometimes they make bad movies though

1:03:52

and they're like, damn, all right, try

1:03:55

again next time. So

1:04:00

I did some

1:04:03

feature film acting when I was

1:04:05

younger. I did three

1:04:07

movies that were direct to video. All of

1:04:09

them, I say like 2T, all that.

1:04:13

All pretty awful movies. One of them

1:04:16

was like a Saw ripoff that is

1:04:19

as unwatchable as this as Madam Web. Like it's

1:04:21

like there's nothing fun I don't think about it.

1:04:24

Now- I know and I can tell our

1:04:26

audience how I

1:04:28

know for sure. I had

1:04:30

a party once and we watched the movie. We

1:04:34

weren't going to- we weren't doing it- Soren wasn't invited to

1:04:36

the party. We weren't doing it to like let's

1:04:39

make fun of our friend Soren. It was like let's just watch

1:04:41

this movie that he's in that he doesn't want us to watch.

1:04:45

It is definitely like you said a Saw

1:04:48

ripoff. But the other thing that's not

1:04:50

fun about it is they

1:04:52

kill my friend Soren in the movie and

1:04:54

his character looks like Soren and gets really

1:04:57

scared when they're about to kill him.

1:04:59

It's not fun to watch if you like Soren because

1:05:01

he does a good job acting. It's like well that's

1:05:03

what it would look like if Soren was scared to

1:05:05

death. So

1:05:08

yeah in the same way we're like I

1:05:10

didn't- this is nowhere near what these- I'm

1:05:12

sure these girls felt when they got these

1:05:14

parts in a Madam Web movie. But it

1:05:16

was still like okay here's a foothold. All

1:05:18

I got to do is my fucking very best and no

1:05:20

matter what this movie ends up being I will

1:05:23

be fine in it because I'm doing- I'm doing

1:05:25

my- I'm trying my hardest. And

1:05:27

that's just not ever the

1:05:29

case. There's this one movie

1:05:31

I did called Blind Ambition about

1:05:35

a runner who's blind. Very

1:05:37

pertinent to our current conversation but she's a runner who's

1:05:39

blind and I'm like the love interest in it. Her

1:05:42

dad in it is played by a famous

1:05:44

Indian actor named Golshen Grover who's

1:05:46

in a ton of Bollywood

1:05:49

movies and he's done some crossover. He's played like

1:05:51

a villain in a couple of American movies. He's

1:05:53

a big big name in India and

1:05:56

the first day on set I

1:05:58

hear him deliver this line. like a

1:06:00

crazy person. And

1:06:02

I look at the director and I look at

1:06:04

him again and no one's saying anything. Like this

1:06:06

is just what apparently he's been doing. And

1:06:09

I was like, oh, oh, this is going to

1:06:11

be terrible. This is going to be a bad movie. We're

1:06:14

all fucked. It

1:06:17

was. It was. It

1:06:20

was a bad movie. What does she... Does

1:06:22

she learn that she can run even though she's blind? Yeah.

1:06:26

Yeah. Her dad doesn't want her to because

1:06:28

he's scared. She's like running has been her dream. She

1:06:30

finally gets a coach. Her coach is

1:06:32

Vanessa Angel who is in Kingpin. And

1:06:37

the coach believes in her and teaches her

1:06:39

how to run even though she's blind,

1:06:42

runs along with her and guides her

1:06:44

and stuff. And it

1:06:46

ends up being... Maybe I can't remember. I

1:06:49

think she runs the marathon and wins it maybe. I

1:06:51

don't know. We're all cheering for her at the

1:06:53

end. It's been a long time. And

1:06:56

then we have a little breakup

1:06:58

in the middle of it because I also

1:07:02

don't like the shit running. Oh man, it's

1:07:04

been a long time. I thought I could

1:07:06

describe this movie that I was fucking in,

1:07:08

but I can't. I don't remember anything about

1:07:10

it. Anyway, it's a bad movie. Don't go

1:07:12

watch it. I

1:07:15

was listening to an interview this morning.

1:07:17

Josh Brolin was on the Smart

1:07:19

List podcast and he was talking

1:07:21

about doing and why he

1:07:23

works with the people that he works with. And

1:07:26

it seemed very relevant to this conversation

1:07:29

when he's talking about why he likes

1:07:31

working with Doon's director, Denny

1:07:34

Villanueve, I guess. Just

1:07:37

take a real swing on that pronunciation. But

1:07:41

he was like, yeah, I like him because

1:07:44

there are some directors and no matter

1:07:46

what you do, you don't know if

1:07:48

they're going to choose the right take.

1:07:52

And it's just a crapshoot. But working with Denny, I

1:07:54

always know that no matter what, he's going to pick

1:07:56

the right one. He's going to pick

1:07:58

a good one. And that's got to be such a scam. fucking

1:08:00

thing for actors to not have that control

1:08:02

over what takes they use and especially if

1:08:04

you got a director who is like, all

1:08:06

right now do one, right? That's

1:08:08

kind of big, that's kind of like this and

1:08:11

you want to do your job of like giving

1:08:13

them all the options that they're asking for but

1:08:15

then you go home and you're you have absolutely

1:08:17

no control over what your

1:08:20

character is like in the movie because you

1:08:22

don't get to pick the things that they

1:08:24

that end up on screen. No,

1:08:26

there's could be a lot of

1:08:29

different reasons why they chose that particular one. You

1:08:31

might be dogshitting the take but like the audio

1:08:33

popped or whatever for on the other ones or

1:08:35

there's something in the background that the director didn't

1:08:37

like in the other ones and

1:08:39

so like the way it's such

1:08:41

a small percentage

1:08:43

of what goes into deciding what's gonna

1:08:45

be the final take for any particular

1:08:48

shot is the actual acting.

1:08:50

Like the acting has

1:08:52

almost nothing to do with it I guess in

1:08:55

like really pivotal scenes but you're

1:08:57

beholden to like these weird takes that you

1:08:59

do every once in a while like Shelley

1:09:01

Long, no sorry, Shelley Duvall

1:09:03

in The Shining where he would take

1:09:07

so many takes of her that she

1:09:09

like lost the words lost all meaning for her and

1:09:12

like none of it made any sense and

1:09:14

so she was just like saying weird words

1:09:16

were coming out of her mouth that meant

1:09:18

nothing and he was like that's the one.

1:09:20

And it's a bummer because you can't then

1:09:22

in press tours be like look I

1:09:25

did good acting the whole time I was on

1:09:27

set they just didn't pick any of the good

1:09:30

parts. You still have to go out and be

1:09:32

like I'm really excited about this Madame Web movie.

1:09:34

Yeah I mean a hypothetical

1:09:37

person has to do that. Dakota Johnson doesn't have

1:09:39

to do that. She is the chosen

1:09:42

not to do it. I don't

1:09:45

know what this movie is gonna be. I don't

1:09:47

know why anyone's talking about it. I don't

1:09:50

know why I'm on a talk show currently.

1:09:53

I also saw as soon as I watched it and I was

1:09:55

like what the fuck is going on I just opened up. I

1:10:00

was like, Madam Web reviews and saw one of

1:10:02

the first articles that popped up with Sydney Sweeney

1:10:05

saying that she did it by mistake. I can't read

1:10:07

that kind of thing. But

1:10:11

wonderful. I'm very happy to hear that she

1:10:13

did this movie on accident.

1:10:16

Yeah, I feel like there's there

1:10:19

were lots of clues that this movie might have

1:10:21

been bad because I remember when they casted me

1:10:23

Sweeney, they were very tight

1:10:25

lipped about who she was playing. And

1:10:30

I imagine that's probably because when they cast

1:10:32

her, she was playing a different character that

1:10:34

you would want to keep secret. Because

1:10:37

now like it's the reveal that she's just some fucking

1:10:39

spider girl I've never heard of in my entire

1:10:43

spider lore consuming life.

1:10:45

She's like, Oh, they probably cast her

1:10:48

as as young aunt

1:10:50

May and then change their minds. And

1:10:54

really wish they hadn't said it was a big secret 10 months

1:10:57

ago. Yeah,

1:10:59

that that makes a lot of sense

1:11:01

because she is not she should not be

1:11:04

playing this part. It's

1:11:06

like a goody two shoes that

1:11:09

really all the other girls in

1:11:11

it who end up with Dakota

1:11:13

are there because they are that

1:11:15

their lives have fallen apart in other quadrants and

1:11:17

they can't like they don't have parents around. Sure.

1:11:20

She has parents around. She has somebody who probably

1:11:23

is curious where she might be. She

1:11:25

has a stepdad. And

1:11:27

but she's like, I don't think he likes me. And

1:11:30

everyone's like, Yeah, probably not. Come

1:11:32

live with us. She's like, Yeah, that's a good idea. Jesus

1:11:39

Christ, is this our longest episode ever? No,

1:11:43

I don't think so. But we're up there. This is

1:11:46

certainly top top five. Okay,

1:11:48

let me let me let me play us out

1:11:50

here. Okay.

1:11:53

Thank you everybody for listening to quick question. We

1:11:58

don't do like a final thoughts on the movie. Like

1:12:00

a final score,

1:12:02

tomato score or fork score? Bad.

1:12:06

Yeah. Well, I'm trying

1:12:08

to think of the worst kind of fork.

1:12:10

A fondue fork? Yeah. It's bad in a

1:12:12

way that is not entertainingly bad. And they

1:12:14

were definitely... I texted you and

1:12:17

Gabe and our other

1:12:19

friend that I wanted to leave while watching

1:12:21

the movie. Because I had reached

1:12:24

a point where it was like, this is no

1:12:26

longer a good use of my time on earth

1:12:28

to be seeing this movie. Yeah,

1:12:32

to give it a full context, Rocket Man, one of my favorite

1:12:34

movies, and that's only because I saw it in a theater after

1:12:36

about four years of not going to the movies. And

1:12:38

just like, I got swept up in the enchantment of the

1:12:41

film of like, you're in a dark space. It's

1:12:45

a huge screen, there's lots of sound and everything. Like

1:12:47

I was... I bought into all

1:12:49

of it for a fucking movie like Rocket Man.

1:12:51

And then this movie was the first

1:12:54

movie I've seen in a theater in a very, very long

1:12:56

time. And it could do it. It just...

1:12:58

I tried to like disassociate

1:13:01

in the middle of this movie and just

1:13:03

like, well, maybe if I just escape

1:13:05

to a world of imagination, I

1:13:08

can find pleasure

1:13:10

in my mind. And I

1:13:12

couldn't. The movie was too distracting for me to

1:13:14

daydream. So

1:13:17

that's the review. Too distracting to

1:13:20

daydream, Derek. But

1:13:22

not good. Yeah, if you're looking for a movie where

1:13:24

you can just sort of like not watch it and

1:13:26

think your thoughts, don't go to Madame Web. It's not

1:13:28

the movie for that. All

1:13:31

right. You can follow Dan and me

1:13:33

on Blue Sky. You'll

1:13:35

have to just go find us there.

1:13:37

You can also email us at qqwithsorinanddanielatgmail.com.

1:13:40

I think that Q... Quick question is

1:13:42

still on Twitter. You can go to

1:13:44

QQunderskorinandDan. We have

1:13:46

an Instagram, which is QQ underscore with

1:13:48

underscore Sorin underscore and underscore Daniel. And

1:13:51

we have a sound engineer, editor,

1:13:54

producer, show daddy, show

1:13:56

mama in Cape Harbor.

1:14:00

Yeah Our patreon

1:14:02

is patreon slash quick question. We

1:14:04

have a theme song. She liked it at the beginning you

1:14:06

can go listen to more their music That's me Rex you

1:14:08

can find them on Spotify or iTunes. You can also find

1:14:10

their full albums on me Rex bandcamp calm And

1:14:14

we're on YouTube Still

1:14:16

there would Dan and I did a whole

1:14:18

handful of these together And it was great,

1:14:21

and you can go watch them at

1:14:23

YouTube slash at QQ podcast That's

1:14:26

it. Yeah Bye

1:14:31

all right I

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