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1:00

Shouldn't you

1:02

be at work? When

1:04

the seagulls follow the trawler, it's

1:06

because they think sardines will

1:09

be thrown into the sea. I

1:11

will love it if we beat them. Love it.

1:16

I'll have a low-fat pizza or something like that,

1:18

or a few biscuits and some milk on a Sunday. And

1:20

you can pair up if you like, and you can

1:22

fucking pick someone else to help you, and you can bring your fucking

1:24

dinner.

1:27

Oh, a magnificent goal from Darren Huckabee!

1:31

Now, you know him better than anybody probably.

1:33

Do you back him to score quickly, yes or no? Yes. Oh,

1:36

no!

1:47

Hello and welcome to Quickly Kevin, Will He Score? I'm Chris Scull,

1:50

and joining me as always, it's Michael Marden. Hello. And

1:54

our guest host this week, one third

1:56

of the podcast group Pappies. It's one of our own. Tom

2:00

Parry. Oh, I like being

2:02

one of our own. That must feel

2:04

so good. When that chant comes out from the terrace, you've got

2:06

to love that. I actually,

2:09

I would say one of our own is like my number

2:11

one most hated chant. What

2:14

does it even mean? He's one of our

2:16

own. And Spurs fans are saying that about Harry

2:19

Kane. I just don't really get it. He

2:22

was born down the road sort of thing.

2:24

Within a radius, within three kilometre radius

2:27

of the ground. It might be a better chant actually.

2:29

It's born down the road. Born

2:33

down the road just for clarity's sake. So

2:35

this week we've got an extra good episode

2:37

for you. Pete Graves talking about Newcastle

2:40

in the 90s. We know we've

2:42

never covered this properly before and

2:44

Pete is the man to do it. It's

2:46

a hell of an episode coming up. But firstly,

2:49

shall we have some correspondence? I'm

2:53

Jim Rosenthal and this is the

2:55

Electronic Postbag.

2:56

You've got mail.

3:00

Alright, actually, I want to begin this correspondence

3:03

section with a do I remember this right?

3:05

Because this might be the biggest one ever.

3:08

Do I remember this right? Do I remember

3:10

this right? Do I remember this right? Do

3:13

I remember this right? Do I remember this right? Do

3:15

I remember this right?

3:17

Harry, just to

3:18

bring you up to speed, we had a new mail

3:20

a couple of episodes ago from a listener who says

3:22

that after the Champions League final, after

3:25

in 1999 that Manchester United

3:27

won, it cut to the studio

3:29

and Terry Venables was briefly heard dropping

3:32

the C-bomb as he was chatting to a

3:34

fellow pundit. Okay, we

3:36

chatted this to Michael. We had a little discussion. He

3:39

had no memory of it. And we thought this

3:41

is simply, it could not have happened. Well, let me

3:43

tell you, our inbox has been inundated

3:45

for people who remember the same

3:48

thing. Let me read this first

3:50

email. Erfan Ali says, love the podcast.

3:53

Well, I heard that email being read out about L tells

3:55

alleged C-bomb live on air back in I

3:57

genuinely thought I was the only person in the.

4:00

world who had apparently heard this. I

4:02

was 13 years old on that night that Manchester

4:04

United completed their historic treble, as a Villa fan

4:06

I couldn't have cared less to be honest. Anyhow,

4:09

I distinctly remember this moment,

4:11

although there is one small detail in my recollection

4:13

that differs from the previous email. From what I remember,

4:15

Venables commented, that Hitzfield

4:17

was a lucky C-bomb. Possibly

4:20

in response to a question or comment about Bayern going

4:22

1-0 up and nearly winning the Champions League, who

4:25

knows, but the C-bomb was definitely

4:27

used. I remember my mum and dad looking at each other and raising

4:29

their eyebrows. I decided to pretend I hadn't

4:32

heard anything. I have trolled the internet to try

4:34

and find this piece of obscene gold, but

4:36

it's nowhere to be found. And

4:38

then I'll just add to the wait, another

4:40

email I pulled out, this one from Robert Knight, a big fan of the

4:42

podcast, walking to work this morning and I stopped

4:45

in my tracks while listening to the latest episode,

4:47

and the Do I Remember This Right section. I've

4:49

been waiting for over 24 years

4:52

for someone to verify what my friends and I were convinced

4:54

we heard Terry Venables mutter on live

4:56

TV after Manchester United's dramatic Champions League victory.

4:59

My memory differs slightly in that I'm sure

5:01

that it happened right after ITV had spoken to

5:03

Alex Ferguson, and as they wrapped the interview to go

5:05

back to the studio, the mic picked up Terry

5:07

Venables muttering, lucky C-U-N-T.

5:10

In my mind, this makes more sense as

5:12

one manager was commenting on another's

5:14

good fortune in the European final, especially

5:16

after Venables' bad luck in the 86 final.

5:19

He said he'd heard it with his mates and they all turned to each

5:21

other but to say, did you hear that? No

5:23

Skype plus back then, of course, and we had not taped

5:26

the game, so there's no way to play it back. Over

5:28

the years, I've searched the evidence with no luck until

5:30

today. I hope more and more people come

5:32

forward to verify. It

5:35

seems like it happened. I'm

5:37

going to say it. I think it happened. This

5:39

is the purpose of this podcast.

5:42

This is exactly the event that you

5:44

were put on this first floor. You're

5:47

bringing all these all these Altaal

5:49

Tuntruthers together in one place.

5:53

It's extraordinary. It feels like you've got a

5:55

higher purpose going on here. No, 24 years

5:58

those people have been thinking. I

6:00

thought I heard that no one's ever talked about it and

6:03

one email is unearthed. It's opened

6:05

the floodgates and ITV destroyed

6:07

the tapes. I

6:10

love this, there's got to be evidence out there somewhere.

6:12

Got to be. That is, I'm going

6:14

to say, Michael, in all the years of doing the podcast, I

6:16

think that is the most astonishing do I remember this

6:18

right. We know we have like sport

6:20

producers listen to this podcast. Someone

6:23

must have access to the ITV archive

6:25

somewhere. That live broadcast must

6:28

exist. You can send it anonymously. Hello

6:30

at quicklykevin.com. Let's

6:33

find out. We can find this out for real.

6:35

Drop it off in a brown paper bag. I'll

6:39

meet you in the car park. Put

6:42

it in a shoebox, toss

6:45

it in the car, no questions

6:47

asked. Oh

6:49

man, astonishing. Astonishing

6:53

do I remember this right. Here's

6:55

another kind of sliding doors. This is just a random

6:57

piece of correspondence, but I think it's interesting. Subject

7:00

title, should Steve Bruce have won the Blonde

7:03

or? Yes. Hi all, this is Richard

7:05

May. End of email. Actually,

7:08

that's just, it's just the subject title. The

7:10

email's blank. Hi

7:16

all, as you know, Michael Owen famously

7:18

won the Blonde or in 2001 ahead of players such

7:20

as Raul Figo, Shevchenko, Henry and Zidane.

7:22

It's got me thinking about his stats a little more. That

7:24

season he scored 16 league goals in 28 games. Nothing

7:28

outstanding. Came to realise, amazingly, he

7:30

never scored 20 league goals in a single season, 19

7:32

being his best. I think Liverpool's success

7:34

in winning the UEFA Cup, FA Cup and League Cup that year played

7:37

its part in his Blonde or award. And

7:39

this brings me on to Steve Bruce, who matched

7:41

that feat with an impressive 19 goals in

7:44

the 1990-91 season for Manchester United. Seeing

7:46

that he did this from centre back and also

7:49

won the Cup Winners' Cup that year, is there a case

7:51

to be made that Bruce should have indeed won

7:53

the 1991 Blonde or instead of

7:56

Jean-Pierre Papin? Looking at the Blonde or

7:58

rankings for 1991. Bruce didn't receive

8:01

any votes, although his teammates Mark

8:03

Hughes and Gary Ballester did. It does

8:05

still seem odd that he didn't play for England. I

8:08

do realise this email sounds like it could be written by Steve

8:10

Barnes himself. Many thanks, Richard Maidens. Interesting

8:12

point there. 19 goals from

8:14

centre-back! No one won the Ballon d'Or

8:17

though off the back of the Cup Winners' Cup. LAUGHTER

8:19

You know? That's

8:22

the bit where the argument was slightly undermined. LAUGHTER

8:25

It's like, and they did win the Cup Winners' Cup, and

8:27

it's like, well... LAUGHTER I'm not going

8:30

to swing the Ballon d'Or, is it? Well, there

8:32

you go. Have you got any more on Terry Venable's

8:34

swearing in the 1999 Champions League

8:36

final? Or another year maybe

8:38

that Steve Bruce should have won the Ballon

8:40

d'Or? Here's how you can get in touch with the show. Get

8:44

in touch with the show. Email hello

8:47

at quicklykevin.com. Follow

8:49

us on Facebook and Twitter at Quickly

8:52

Kevin. And sign up to the mailing

8:54

list at quicklykevin.com. MUSIC

8:58

Lovely stuff. Pete Graves coming right up. If you

9:00

want this episode ad-free extended and

9:03

every episode of this series a week early,

9:05

no ads, plus two bonus

9:07

episodes every month, you can sign up for the Quickly

9:09

Kevin Fan Club at anotherslice.com forward

9:11

slash quicklykevin, or alternatively, go onto

9:14

your Apple Podcast app and subscribe to

9:16

the Quickly Kevin Fan Club right there. All

9:19

right. You've been waiting a long time for this. Here

9:21

it is at long last. Pete Graves, Newcastle

9:24

in the 90s. MUSIC

9:33

Our guest this week is a Geordie through and

9:36

through, the face of Sky Sports News,

9:38

former head commentator at Newcastle United and

9:40

the brains and brawn behind We're Still

9:42

Fighting for this title, the new audio documentary

9:45

charting the magpies' rise through the 90s.

9:48

It's a pleasure to welcome to Quickly Kevin, Pete

9:50

Graves. Welcome, Pete. Pleasure

9:52

to be here. The brain and brawn, I

9:55

love that. I've never been

9:57

described as either of those things, but

9:59

I will... Take them both. Thank you very

10:01

much for having me on. We should say

10:03

as well, we started this interview by establishing Pete is

10:06

in Sky right now. My kid,

10:08

my one year old was up at half five this morning.

10:10

I came downstairs, put on Sky's what's new. There

10:12

was Pete this morning. And we're recording this

10:14

in the evening. The man doesn't sleep.

10:17

He's missed a sky. Yeah,

10:19

I mean, I was just saying, I've

10:22

got wife and three kids. They all live in Newcastle.

10:24

We decided to all move as a family back

10:27

to Newcastle, which is great because I get to go

10:29

to the matches and take my kids to the Newcastle games

10:31

again. But obviously, I still work down here

10:33

four days a week in London and I'm doing the breakfast

10:35

show on Sky Sports News, which I love.

10:38

So I kind of like it. I didn't want to leave Sky

10:40

and I didn't kind of want to leave Newcastle. So

10:42

it means that when I'm down here, I kind of do live

10:44

in the office and like the

10:46

cleaners and the people in the canteen.

10:49

They just see me all through the day. They must get sick

10:51

of me. I'm like, there's that weirdo just wandering around

10:53

and never goes home. But I say Sky's

10:55

Sky's my home. It really is literally. Have

10:58

you got a prime spot in the building

11:00

for kipping that you can recommend? And if

11:02

anyone gets to Sky Sports, is there anywhere that you can recommend

11:05

for a good sleep? Well, you know, this is true,

11:07

right? So I did get a place down here, right?

11:09

I got my own flat, which is brilliant. But then in

11:11

lockdown, I rented it out to a

11:13

lady because I was like, I was only working one day

11:16

a week or whatever down here. So no point

11:18

keeping the flat going. So I rented it out. The

11:20

lady who rented it off me had a child during

11:23

lockdown. So when lockdown lifted, I couldn't

11:26

turn her out. They're in there.

11:28

So she's there because she loves it. And so

11:31

I ended up renting a room right

11:33

opposite. It's in a lady's house. It's the third

11:35

floor. It's got a single bed, no

11:37

TV. It's got a tiny little window. It's

11:40

like a prison cell. So that's

11:42

where I live when I'm not here. So that's probably why

11:44

I spent so much time in the office. So

11:46

yeah, people who think that like being a TV presenter

11:48

is all really glam and everything. Let me

11:51

tell you now from the hotel, it's not. There's

11:56

a lot of responsibility on your shoulders, Pete, because

11:58

I'm quickly keeping with office. doesn't mean criticise

12:00

for not doing enough on Newcastle. And

12:03

this is the opportunity really. So do you feel

12:05

the weight of that responsibility? It's a huge job

12:07

you've got in your hands here. I can feel the big Newcastle

12:10

United shape Batman symbol lighting in

12:12

the sky. I needed to come on this podcast, which I

12:14

love by the way, it's a pleasure to be on here and

12:16

to talk about Newcastle. Because we were kind

12:18

of everyone's second favourite team in the 90s.

12:20

I mean, everyone loved Kevin Keegan's

12:23

Newcastle. I'm very, very fortunate

12:25

in that Kevin is and I'm not

12:27

dropping names here. I get on really well with him.

12:29

I was with him on Monday night he came to I was doing

12:31

a book launch him and Eddie Halberg came and I introduced

12:34

the two of them to each other for the first

12:36

time on stage screaming

12:38

Jordies. So that was an incredible night.

12:40

Kevin isn't he's my hero. He's

12:43

a legend. And I'm lucky enough to speak

12:45

to him a couple of times a week. I'm so

12:47

thankful for everything he did for Newcastle when I was 11

12:50

12 years old, I was at his first game for the

12:52

club. He took over a team that was awful. In

12:55

you know, less than two years, he took them from the bottom

12:57

of the old first division, why wouldn't you call it the championship

13:00

now bottom of that table, all the

13:02

way up to the top of the Premier that you finished in third

13:05

in the Premier League. And that was like, it was incredible.

13:07

I don't think it'll ever happen again, that you'd go

13:09

from the bottom of the championship to like the

13:12

Champions League places in literally

13:15

less than two seasons. It's an extraordinary story,

13:17

isn't it? I was surprised you've been criticised about not coming

13:19

Newcastle enough quickly, Kevin, because to

13:22

my mind, when you think of the birth of the Premier League

13:24

and that Newcastle are so linked

13:26

to 90s, like the names of Newcastle's

13:29

team through the mid 90s. They

13:32

are the classic names of 90s footballers

13:34

in that decade. It's it's a hell

13:36

of a team. And you're right. I mean, like

13:39

I'm a wall fan. I'm from Wolverhampton. And we were

13:41

everyone was rooting for Newcastle in the

13:43

Premier League. Everyone wanted it. And

13:45

felt like every time you picked up the newspaper,

13:47

we've signed another like

13:50

major star. It was so

13:52

weird at the time. I mean, it was kind

13:54

of like I think when like Newcastle now,

13:57

when the big takeover happened, everyone was saying, Oh, you're

13:59

gonna sign name. you're gonna sign them back, you're

14:01

gonna sign Messi. And it's not been like that. Newcastle

14:03

has been very strategic and they've sort of brought

14:06

young up and coming stars. Keegan's

14:08

Newcastle bought the

14:10

sort of big superstars of the day. Les

14:12

Ferdinand, Alan Shearer, Tino Osprear,

14:15

David Chineler, they just kept coming. You'd

14:17

watch the telly on a Sunday and see like some

14:20

like Tino Osprear's Guarhatric in Serie A

14:22

on Channel 4. On Monday they'd sign

14:24

him, you know, you'd watch a Belgium

14:26

international game in the World Cup

14:28

and like Philippe Albert would score a World Cup for Belgium

14:31

following Tuesday, you'd sign for Newcastle.

14:33

It was just like every time I saw a good

14:35

player on the telly, I'm sure Keegan was doing exactly the

14:37

same thing, you just buy the player. It's

14:40

worth saying aesthetically as well, a very good

14:42

looking team. You think all those players

14:45

that you've just mentioned, they're good looking players. I

14:47

think that was part of it, you have to be top player

14:49

but looks definitely came into it and

14:52

you know there was a lot of pressure on all men in Newcastle

14:54

that looked good at that time. It's

14:56

amazing Barry Vinnison stayed in the team really.

14:58

Hey, hey, Vinnison was a good looking lad,

15:00

there's no doubt about him. Maybe not everyone's

15:03

got the team but you can see the appeal.

15:05

I remember that period, you'd go out into

15:07

Newcastle and don't want anybody

15:10

Wikipedia my age because you're going to work out. I was probably too

15:12

young to be going out in Newcastle at the time but

15:15

you got into the bars and you

15:17

just walk into a bar and you'd look

15:19

up at the bar and you'd see this like glow

15:21

and you look on the bottom, you just see Shearer,

15:24

Ferdinand, Janola, Rob

15:27

Lee, all just sitting there

15:29

drinking pints and it was like, oh there

15:31

they are,

15:32

the boys are there and it was great, you

15:34

could just go talk to them and it's not like these days.

15:36

I mean it could never happen but yeah,

15:38

they were out on the town all the time and

15:41

it's an incredible story actually. I

15:43

wrote to Steve Howey about this and they said that there

15:45

was a brilliant party culture in that Newcastle

15:47

squad. They'd all go out on the key side, Janola

15:51

and John Beresford and they'd all

15:53

be out there every night and had

15:55

a brilliant squad morale. The

15:57

story goes that when Newcastle was at 12... points

16:00

clear and running away with the title.

16:02

One day Keegan walks into training and he goes, listen,

16:04

that's great squad. All the

16:06

partying is fantastic, but we are never ever

16:09

going to get another chance to miss to win the title.

16:11

So let's not the partying on the head.

16:13

Let's not the drinking on the head. Let's stop all that.

16:16

And that's just knuckle down and get this title

16:18

one and all the labs like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But then

16:20

once they stop going out and partying, that

16:23

was the problem. So actually, the

16:26

one title we should have actually won and I haven't seen

16:28

Newcastle win anything in my lifetime. The

16:31

most Newcastle thing ever that because they all stopped

16:33

going out drinking and partying all the time, they blew

16:36

the title. I mean, it's unbelievable.

16:38

Do you think halfway through that run, didn't they go, we should

16:41

start going out again? We need to turn this around. Yeah.

16:45

Yeah, that was it. That's what the legend goes. But

16:47

they were great times. We never won anything,

16:50

but I don't regret it. I think in some ways,

16:52

the fact they came so close and didn't

16:54

win it, all it's done is fuel

16:57

the city and the hunger for

17:00

Newcastle to win something. And that's why it's quite

17:02

exciting again now because you feel

17:04

like you're getting towards the desperation

17:07

that people have just to win a trophy in that

17:09

city is just feel it everywhere you

17:12

go. So and I think had they won

17:14

something back then, it would be slightly different now.

17:16

Sounds silly, but you see supporters

17:18

get used to winning stuff. We lost

17:20

the Caravale Cup final to Manchester United

17:22

last season. And honestly,

17:25

no disrespect to Manchester United fans, but they were

17:27

walking out like it was any other day. If

17:29

Newcastle had won the Caravale Cup, they would

17:31

still be partying now. We're doing an

17:33

open match.

17:43

Because of what happened on the Keegan, the desperation remains.

17:45

There's something I remember from the mid 90s. Didn't

17:48

a guy get a tattoo of Newcastle

17:50

lifting the Premier League trophy in

17:52

the weeks leading before they did actually for the

17:54

end of the season? Where's that guy now?

17:57

The one I remember is that a massive Andy Cole

17:59

tattoo on his back. He got a massive

18:01

Andy Cole tattoo and then he got

18:03

sold to Manchester United like two days

18:05

later or something. And that was again

18:08

summed up Keegan because Keegan of course came

18:10

out on the steps at St James's Park because

18:13

there was an angry mob gathering

18:15

outside St James's Park and Keegan

18:18

walked out into the mob and just like

18:20

faced them face to face. Like Jesus.

18:23

I remember the footage, yeah, it's incredible. He

18:26

tells it great Kevin because he says he

18:29

was upstairs with all the board of directors and Terry

18:31

McDermott and they were looking out the window and the

18:33

board of directors are going, goodness

18:35

made it thousands of them gathering outside

18:37

and Douglas Hall picks up the

18:39

phone and he goes, listen, we need a car to

18:41

take us out the back door and get out of here. And

18:44

Kevin goes, no, come on, let's just go out there. Let's talk to the fans,

18:46

you know, and all the directors go, no, we

18:48

can't do that. There'll be a riot. Kevin's

18:50

like, no, come on, let's do it. And he persuades everyone

18:53

to walk out. Says as he was walking

18:55

out the door, he carried a

18:57

walk in and he turned and all the directors had laid

18:59

out. He was just left

19:02

standing there on his own

19:04

with Terry McDermott standing next to him. And

19:07

one of the fans shouted from the front said, what

19:09

have you done selling Andy Colt? Our biggest rivals

19:12

Manchester United. And he looked back at him

19:14

and he said, well, when I came here, your

19:16

biggest rivals were South End United, now the

19:18

Manchester United. So you're going to have to trust

19:20

in me. And then he said the second fan shouted

19:23

out, everyone calm down. You wouldn't

19:25

sell him unless he had someone else lined up.

19:27

And apparently Terry McDermott behind him just whispered,

19:30

you want a bet? Nobody

19:34

else lined up. Only enough who signed

19:36

Les Ferdinand with that money. And if

19:39

you speak to Les now, he'll tell you

19:41

that Manchester United approached him first,

19:44

but he had given a promise,

19:45

I think to Steve Coppola, if I remember rightly, to

19:48

stay at QBR for one more

19:50

season.

19:51

So Manchester United then signed Andy

19:53

Cole. He was their second choice. However,

19:56

Steve Coppola then got sacked. Keegan

19:58

got wind of this and he went and bought Les. as Ferdinand.

20:00

So actually, he got Sir Alex's

20:02

first choice and Sir Alex

20:05

ended up with his number two.

20:07

So Newcastle won the transfer battle, but

20:09

Manchester United famously won the

20:11

title. Oh, there you go.

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21:43

You touched on your friendship with Kevin Keegan. Now,

21:45

obviously the title quickly Kevin Willey score comes from

21:47

an infamous bit of commentary Brian Moore

21:50

teeing up, I mean stitching up Kevin Keegan

21:53

in France 98. We've heard people

21:55

who are friends of Brian Moore say he really regretted it, but I've

21:57

never heard Keegan side of the story.

22:00

Has this ever come up? He had an awful

22:02

lot of time for Brian Moore. I

22:05

know that. And respective

22:08

highly is one of the best in the business. But I think you

22:10

only need to look at how few commentaries Keegan

22:13

did after that. He barely did another one, did

22:15

he? He doesn't do any media at all really

22:18

now. He likes to get out and about

22:20

and do some public speaking and go to

22:22

different businesses and talk about. Kevin's

22:25

not really a football man, right?

22:28

What he does love is he

22:30

loves the idea of how you can pick up a group of

22:32

people and motivate them. He's a great

22:34

man motivator and he does it to me

22:37

before we got on stage and put doing an event together

22:39

and he sort of tells me I'm the best in the business and

22:41

I wish I was working with someone else the other night. I

22:43

was all night at what I was thinking. I wish it was you. When

22:46

I got on stage, I feel a million dollars. And

22:49

he's probably saying the same thing for every single person

22:51

he works with. Yeah, he's brilliant at

22:53

that. But no, he doesn't do any media

22:55

stuff and I think that's probably why because of the

22:57

things like that over the years. He

23:01

wears his heart on his sleeve, famous,

23:03

I would love it, rant. I mean, it's still so

23:06

famous to this day. You don't want to see managers

23:08

really getting that passionate

23:11

on screen that everyone's quite calm and collected.

23:14

And I think he's a wonderful person,

23:16

Kevin, but he wants to be able to just say what

23:18

he feels like and not have to worry about what

23:20

the implications are. And I think that

23:22

commentary clip that you're talking about is probably

23:25

the sound of the story of why he

23:27

doesn't really do much anymore. Yeah, in

23:29

a weird way. He's not really cut out

23:31

for management because like you say, he has

23:34

no poker face. Everything is so

23:36

emotional with him. And I think that really came to

23:38

the fore. Have you heard the rumours about when he

23:40

took over at England and he quit at half time

23:42

or like straight after the game, he handed his

23:44

resignation. But at half time, he said the

23:46

players that defeat to Germany last game at Wembley,

23:49

I just don't know what to do. He's

23:51

so emotional, is it? In a way that's not really suitable

23:53

to football management.

23:54

Yeah. And he also feels

23:57

the weight of pressure on his shoulders more

23:59

than anything.

23:59

anyone I know. So he's

24:02

not been to St James's Park in about 15

24:05

years since he left

24:07

under Mike Ashley. He's not been back. Now,

24:10

Eddie Howe is desperate for him to come to a game.

24:12

He wants him to come to a game. Kevin feels

24:14

the way of responsibility. He would say, if I

24:17

come and they lose, I would feel terrible.

24:19

So he almost even today feels

24:21

the pressure of I don't want to be sitting

24:24

there and to take anything away from

24:26

Eddie Howe and the team and all of a sudden they lose

24:28

and I would feel personally responsible. So

24:30

he does feel the pressure of things

24:32

like that. And I think that's just, it's what's so

24:35

lovely about him. You know, he wears

24:37

his heart on his sleeve and you know, I love him to pieces

24:39

as a result, but, but yeah, I know what you're saying

24:41

that it's not really modern

24:44

day management. I think you

24:46

see these guys these days. I mean, Eddie's

24:48

a great example. He's very calm. He's

24:50

very reserved in some ways. And

24:52

I think you've almost got to be like that sometimes

24:55

these days. It's so endearing, isn't

24:57

it? Of Kevin. I want to play

24:59

for him. I think that's why fans like

25:01

love him to this day because there

25:03

is no bullshit with him. What you see is

25:06

what you get. I think that's why players

25:08

love playing for him as well, possibly. Yeah.

25:10

And that's what we did for this podcast because

25:13

we're still fighting for this title. We just wanted

25:15

to go back and speak to all the players and every

25:17

single player we asked said

25:19

yes. We just went and said, Oh, we're making a

25:21

podcast about Kevin Keegan and

25:24

what happened. And literally every player

25:26

from my era would have me to come on. I mean, we

25:28

spoke to Les Vernon, Andy Cole,

25:30

Rob Lee, Lee Clark, Steve Watson,

25:32

David Kelly, Liam Obrag. All the way. They're

25:34

just about every player and not a single player

25:37

said, now I don't want to do it. They were all so happy

25:39

to come on and talk about that period

25:41

because it was such an exciting time and

25:44

it really changed football. I mean, I think that whole sort

25:46

of, it wasn't just Newcastle. I mean,

25:48

there was the whole face of football changed over

25:50

that time. And it was it for me,

25:52

the best era. That's why this podcast is so

25:55

popular, isn't it? Because it was such

25:57

an exciting time. Football was brilliant and the colour

25:59

and the. the Basmatas and everything.

26:01

It was just at a fantastic time and

26:04

there are times where I really miss it honestly because it was

26:06

so great and following Newcastle was

26:09

just a dream at that time as well. There's

26:11

a reason why Tony Blair

26:13

and Kevin Keegan doing Headers together.

26:15

It's like it's such a defining image

26:18

of the 90s because Keegan was

26:20

almost like the Tony Blair of football. Changing

26:22

the way football was seen in this country, the way Newcastle

26:25

played and the entertainers right at the birth

26:27

of the Premier League and Sky taking

26:29

over. It was a dream for them because it was like this is

26:32

what Premier League football should look

26:34

like. It should look like David Janola

26:36

in a kind of red and blue shirt with flowing

26:39

locks taking on four Tottenham players

26:41

and slotting it in the bottom corner. That's what Sky

26:43

wanted the Premier League to be and it was like oh this is,

26:46

we're not used to this. It was amazing. Can

26:49

I ask you at the

26:51

4-3 game obviously like the best, the defining

26:53

kind of Newcastle game for me is that incredible

26:56

Liverpool 4-3. I

26:58

was probably a bit young. It was Anfield

27:00

wasn't it? Yeah it was. It was more

27:02

local. I went to a couple of local

27:05

Darbys at Roker Park and saw a Newcastle

27:07

player's Sunderland. But why my dad thought

27:09

that was a good idea that came in that was the first one

27:11

by the way. Talk about baptism of fire.

27:13

I literally stopped getting chucked

27:15

and I was at the way I had done everything. I was

27:17

like goodness me. I wasn't at that one.

27:20

I was at the Manchester United 5-0

27:22

where you said I think the goal scorers

27:25

on the day. I mean Janola was on the score sheet

27:27

third and then Shearer and then

27:29

Philippe Albert with the famous chip at the end

27:32

after Darren Peacock put his head. That

27:34

5-0 was amazing. But I

27:37

watched the 4-3 on Sky. I

27:39

think it was a Monday night football at the time. Yeah

27:42

it was heartbreaking. Cried all night

27:44

that night. I was really epitomised

27:46

the title slipping away that night. It

27:49

was a huge blow for us and that was the last big F.

27:52

I still think if we'd have won that game we'd have gone

27:54

on and won the title. You're so close

27:56

to winning it. It's a classic game that could have

27:58

gone either way. If you win In that game, I don't

28:01

doubt you're going to win the title. I think

28:03

the manner of the defeat was so heavy,

28:06

it's knocked the wind. It's so hard

28:08

to come back from that. You said about Kevin

28:10

Keegan, why he's not suited to management.

28:12

So he's like, and him slum-filled the other

28:14

side of the ball. I mean,

28:16

literally, he's not on his head.

28:19

Everything's just hanging over us. He's giving

28:21

everything. He's like he's deflected. I know, he

28:23

keeps every ball, he's headed every ball.

28:26

And when Collinmore closes in and

28:28

scores that way, it's just like, oh. And

28:30

then I think it was the following seasons. We went

28:32

there and it was the same result. People have to forget

28:34

the following season. We lost 4-3 again. So

28:37

two years in a row was a 4-3 defeat at Anfield.

28:40

And yeah, I mean, it's one that

28:42

I quickly changed the channel. If I'm flicking

28:44

at home, I'm flicking to Sky Sports and it's Premier

28:47

League years. If it's that, I'm like, oh,

28:49

my shot. Quickly like, grab the control and

28:51

set it over. And I literally

28:53

have nightmares about that season regularly.

28:56

We're having a cold sweat.

28:58

Sometimes I dream that we've actually won it and then you wake up

29:00

and remember that we blew it. It's

29:02

crashing back. Oh, great.

29:05

When was your first game at St James's Park? Did

29:07

you catch the kind of Beardsley Waddle-Gazza

29:10

era or you just after that?

29:12

I was just after. So what my year was,

29:14

Mickey Quinn was my first hero.

29:16

It was perfect, really, because Jim

29:18

Smith was the manager. I think it was 1990, 1991 season.

29:24

And Jim Smith was the manager. He then left and

29:26

Ozzy Ordelez came in and was the manager. And

29:28

we were literally going down. We were awful.

29:32

And then Keegan got announced. And I just remember the buzz,

29:34

my dad coming into the house and going,

29:37

Kevin Keegan, the manager, he's the manager. They

29:40

couldn't believe it. My mum was from Doncaster as

29:42

well, where Kevin was from. So she was

29:44

like, oh, Kevin, I can't believe it. Donny's

29:47

greatest ever. So

29:49

we went to his first game and I was in

29:51

the Millburn paddock. We used to stand at the front of the

29:53

Millburn stand and it was round. I

29:56

got used to going and there was always fans

29:58

have been protesting at the time against the Ozzy. in his shape

30:00

and against the club and it was in a really bad

30:02

place. And I used to go into the Melbourne panic

30:04

and I could kick a football about with the other young kids. There

30:07

was that much space. With Keegan's first game, I

30:09

was rammed up against the wall at the front and

30:11

I was just packed. And I remember

30:13

him coming out with his hair and his track

30:16

suit on and just looking at him. I

30:18

thought, God, he looks amazing. I think

30:20

he had this godlike

30:23

aura and the whole

30:25

stadium knew we were going to

30:27

win. We hadn't won for ages. We were useless.

30:30

It was the same 11 players, but

30:32

the whole stadium knew we were going to win. We did

30:34

one three nil and Keegan was

30:36

me sliding along the pitch when we scored the first

30:38

one. And after that, it was just

30:41

win, win and then win every game. I

30:43

have to say, you look back in history and there

30:46

was a couple of bad results, but they had to go to

30:48

Leicester, who were top of the table on the last day

30:50

and get something and they

30:52

won away at Leicester. And that kept us

30:55

up. And it was like we survived

30:57

and you knew that summer was massive. You've kept

30:59

us up. That's what he came to do. The

31:01

following season, it was win, win, win,

31:04

win. I think they won the first 11 on

31:06

the bounce and the title was wrapped

31:08

up. That championship title was wrapped up by

31:11

Christmas. Last game of the

31:13

season, we'd already won the league. And again, we were

31:15

playing Leicester and it was perfect because the last

31:17

game of year on we have six nil up at

31:19

half time. And

31:22

what has gone on? How has

31:24

he done this? And he knew. Can I ask

31:26

just before you got into Premier League, how had

31:28

he done that? Did you have Andy Cole

31:31

then? Because David Kelly came to us after

31:33

Newcastle. Yeah. So that last game of the season

31:35

against Leicester, when we were six and up half

31:37

time, Cole scored a hat trick. Kelly scored

31:39

a hat trick. Rob Lee scored the other one.

31:42

He brought in Rob Lee, brought in Andy Cole, brought

31:44

in some brilliant players for that league.

31:47

And then he was very clever with the ones he let go because

31:50

like David Kelly went, you scored a hat trick in

31:52

the last game of the season, got rid of Gavin

31:54

Peacock went, Mickey Quinn

31:56

went, all of these players are our best players.

31:59

He got rid of the for the Premier League and our

32:01

first game in the Premier League, I'll never forget it, it

32:04

was Tottenham at home. They had Teddy

32:06

Sheringham playing and Teddy Sheringham

32:08

got the ball about 15 minutes in and

32:10

he hit a shot which just whistled wide of the

32:12

post and I remember thinking I've

32:14

never seen anyone kick a ball that far.

32:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Welcome to the Premier

32:19

League. Yeah, it was like welcome to the Premier League and

32:21

then Sheringham scored the winner, we lost 1-0 and

32:23

me and my dad driving home. That

32:26

dad said it's gonna be a tough old season this and I was like, yeah,

32:28

I don't think we're ready dad, sir thing. But

32:31

we ended up finishing third. It was,

32:33

you know, as soon as we got our first winner, then

32:36

we started battering everybody, you get helped in that league

32:38

and it was unbelievable to finish third, I

32:40

mean, just come up. But Keegan again

32:43

just had that the whole city was believing

32:44

that, you know, we could achieve anything.

32:47

Amazing time. That's what kind of blew my mind about their

32:49

podcast is that I didn't realize Keegan

32:51

was such a big deal in Newcastle beforehand

32:54

and the lift it gave the city. I also didn't

32:56

really appreciate what state Newcastle

32:58

were in off the pitch as well, but how

33:01

the club was basically falling apart. And when

33:03

you watch clips in the early 90s of St. James's

33:05

Park, I can't figure out what's

33:07

going on because the stadium looks nothing like St. James's

33:10

Park as you know it now. It's just like loads

33:12

of little nooks and crannies.

33:14

Yeah, what he did was

33:16

was very clever. It wasn't really, it was

33:19

as much off the pitch as it was on the pitch, like

33:21

you say. So he said he walked in on the first

33:23

day and he went into the gym and he said,

33:25

if you look around the gym, he said there are old sandwiches, stuff

33:27

behind the weight machines and sausage rolls.

33:30

And it was just disgusting.

33:32

And so what he did was they won that

33:34

first game and then he got decorators

33:37

in who completely like

33:39

repainted the gym, did up all the equipment,

33:41

polished up all the weight benches and got

33:43

rid of all the rubbish. And

33:47

when the players came in on Monday morning, they're all

33:49

walking in going, goodness me, look at this place.

33:51

So the whole, basically the whole training ground

33:53

within his first few days was completely redecorated

33:57

and tidied up. Then

33:59

the next thing was, he said, right, our players are

34:01

because they were traveling on the morning of the game. If

34:03

they were playing Southampton, they'd

34:06

travel early in the morning and get there. And they were playing

34:08

these games on the same day they were traveling.

34:10

So he said, no, now we go down the day before, I spent

34:13

the club to pay for hotels, better

34:15

travel. And so he just lifted all

34:17

of that side as well. So all of a sudden, you know,

34:19

the players improved the players' tracksuits

34:21

and the sports gear. And he did

34:24

a lot of that side as well, which made the players

34:26

feel, oh, hang on a second, we've got nice

34:28

training facilities. We're staying in hotels,

34:31

put a structure in place early nights,

34:34

all that sort of thing. And I think that had a huge

34:36

bearing on the results on the field as well.

34:38

He just brought in real professionalism

34:41

into the whole football club that basically

34:43

died many years before. It's not a surprise to me

34:45

that tracksuits are high up on his list of priorities,

34:48

Keegan. I imagine there's two or three on the list.

34:50

Let's talk about tracksuits. Yeah.

34:53

Well, you know, Adidas came in and those Adidas

34:55

kits were famous. Beautiful.

34:58

Funny enough, they just signed a deal to be Newcastle's

35:00

kit maker once again from next season.

35:03

No way. So they're back as well. Picking

35:05

the Jaffas for Castore there. He

35:09

kind of sums up the way the club is. It feels

35:11

very much now, like it did

35:13

then with the excitement in the city and my

35:15

son's 12 and he's living exactly

35:18

the same journey that I lived

35:20

under Keegan. He's doing it with Eddie Howe. It's

35:23

like watching a mirror image of myself just going

35:25

through it all. And he's been through the

35:27

rough times at Newcastle and saying, why

35:31

do I have to support these? You know, as he was little and now

35:33

he's like, oh, dad, I'm so pleased that we support

35:35

Newcastle over the moon because all of a sudden there's

35:38

this excitement again and the atmosphere is

35:40

off the scale. It's similar to what it was

35:43

in the 90s once again. In terms of

35:45

like the big marquee signings you made, we've

35:47

got to talk about Alan Shearer. It was such

35:49

a big

35:50

moment, I think, in the nation, partly

35:53

because of the fee, but also the scenes

35:56

when Alan Shearer signed for Newcastle and those

35:58

thousands of people that turned up to... welcome

36:00

him. That's still burned into my memory.

36:02

I can still see it now. Did you go to that? Yeah,

36:05

yeah, it was St. James's

36:07

Park brought him out, didn't they, and

36:10

all the crowd are there.

36:11

It wasn't a surprise to me really, because

36:13

it was what we'd been doing under Keegan. And

36:16

it always felt that we would get

36:18

Shearer somehow, because that's just what he did. I

36:21

mean, to be fair to them, he was talking

36:23

about this together on Monday when I was with him, and

36:25

there was 15 million pounds, which was a world

36:28

record at the time, and Blackburn asked for

36:30

it in one payment as well. They said it has to be in one

36:32

payment. It couldn't be staggered over years. So

36:35

Newcastle somehow made it happen, and

36:37

they signed Shearer. Keegan

36:39

will say that Shearer had a choice of Manchester

36:41

United or Newcastle, and

36:43

Keegan said to me, you're not going to win anything if you go to Manchester

36:46

United. It's over for them.

36:48

I know they're about to start playing all

36:50

the youth team and all this, and it's good to speak.

36:52

As we know, the rest is history and they want everything.

36:55

Shearer came into Newcastle United and didn't

36:57

win a single thing, but he

36:59

is the club's all-time record goal scorer.

37:01

There is a statue in him outside the ground, and I

37:03

just think that that's worth everything

37:06

to him. And he still goes to games regularly.

37:08

Actually, I went to the Paris Saint-Germain

37:11

game recently. I got out of my

37:13

taxi, and as I

37:15

got out, I literally walked into

37:18

Rob Lee and Alan Shearer walking down like

37:20

the roads in Jameson Park at the same time. So I had

37:23

a bit of chat, shook hands, but Shearer, as we got

37:25

close to the ground, pulled his thing up like

37:27

this and his hat down, and he just had his eyes

37:29

showing like this, which I was like, yeah, fair enough. He doesn't

37:32

want to shake everyone's hands as he goes in. Paul

37:34

Mears, as we got to the bottom of the road, the

37:37

Paris Saint-Germain ultra is coming

37:39

up, and I've looked at Shearer, and

37:42

Shearer's standing there with just his eyes

37:44

showing.

37:45

And I went,

37:46

ow, you do realize it

37:48

looks like you're standing here waiting for a fight.

37:50

And I thought we would have to fight at

37:52

the entire Paris Saint-Germain ultras,

37:55

because Shearer looked like he was only there

37:57

to have a riot.

37:59

It was very surreal. Yeah,

38:02

he still goes to the games and loves it. He's an absolute hero

38:04

there. Sheerah So and he was a brilliant

38:06

player like so good not people

38:08

think about his goals But how he got older

38:11

he sort of adapted his game and he stopped playing

38:13

more was a deeper as a number 10 and he

38:16

was just such a good football he could have played anywhere on

38:18

the pitch and He reminds

38:20

me a lot of Harry Kane when I watch Harry Kane when you

38:22

see him like playing in the flesh Harry

38:25

Kane he very similar to sheary

38:27

can hold the ball up his first touches a macula

38:29

You can't you just can't get him off the ball

38:32

and sheerah was just like that And he was

38:34

a joy to watch and there was part

38:36

me thinks goodness me He could have played anywhere in the world

38:38

and won everything and he gave his

38:40

entire career to his local team I was

38:42

a joy to watch him week in week out absolute

38:45

legend if you ever spent much time with David,

38:47

you know Yeah, a lot with

38:49

blue David over and brought

38:51

him back to Newcastle and not

38:54

long She last season and then took

38:56

him to the game on the Saturday and we sat

38:58

and watch Newcastle play Aston Villa He played

39:00

for them as well in the 90s. He

39:02

is the best little man that's

39:04

ever No

39:07

Barry venison Just

39:10

ahead of Venice. Yeah, he's

39:12

incredibly good-looking and Yeah,

39:15

I mean my mom and wife and everybody

39:17

went to the show I did with David

39:18

in Newcastle and you're

39:20

kind of half Half-hearted the introduces into your

39:22

wife Sure,

39:26

no, she did. Yeah. Yeah, he's

39:28

a very very handsome guy great football

39:30

a great bloke as well Someone told me

39:32

he smokes 20 facts a day and he could do that since

39:34

he's playing career.

39:35

He does smoke still smokes Today

39:39

and I mean Keegan tells a fantastic

39:41

story that They just

39:43

won a game checkered Wednesday away

39:46

or something. They're on the team coach and all the players

39:48

stocks like coughing

39:51

Kevin's like what's going on in Terry Mako's?

39:53

It's not like someone's smoking on the bus So

39:56

Kevin's walked to the back of the bus and there's

39:59

savage

39:59

you know, like just in nothing but his pants, just

40:03

smoking a cigarette at the back of the bus.

40:05

Kevin's going, David, what you

40:07

doing? You can't smoke on here. And all the players

40:09

are like moody. I smoke in gaffer.

40:12

He can't smoke and he has the team coach and he said,

40:14

I always smoke when I play well. He's

40:17

still sitting there smoking. So Kevin's

40:19

like, right, pull the bus over. What's the smoke? He's gonna

40:21

have to get off. So he kicks the chanola off.

40:23

Chanola pulls his like track seat on gets off,

40:26

smokes his cigarette in the lay by. All the players

40:28

are banging on the window. Get on with

40:30

it. Get on with it. Anyway, Kevin says he like put

40:32

the cigarette out, reached into his pocket.

40:34

All the players are

40:36

going mad

40:39

because apparently Keegan when they won, you take

40:41

them to the weather be whaler, which

40:43

was a fish and chip shop in weather be as

40:45

a treat when they wanted away games that they all went

40:48

and got fish and chips. All the lads just wanted to get

40:50

to the fish and chip shop. You

40:52

know, as they're in the, in the lay by sparking

40:54

up another cigarette, you know, he takes them for fish

40:56

and chips if they win. It's like this

40:59

Boy Scouts or

40:59

something like that from their grown men. I know,

41:02

I know. But it's not funny though. That's funny something

41:04

else. It stopped when we were 12 points clear.

41:06

No one was thinking of no more fish and chips. That

41:09

was it. The weather be whalers profits

41:11

just dropped off completely.

41:15

Talk about the 90s

41:17

that Republic of Ireland team in the 90s, Jack

41:19

Charlton was the manager, another Jordy

41:22

and you know, they drank like

41:24

fishes during that World Cup. Got to the quarterfinals,

41:27

you know, brilliant team. I

41:29

used to present all the Republic of Ireland games

41:32

to Sky and I was always working with the likes

41:34

of Ray Houghton and Pat Bonner and all of that

41:36

team and they talked about it up to

41:38

like two o'clock in the morning drinking Guinness and

41:40

then go out play the next day in a World Cup match

41:42

and used to win. So maybe there's something in this

41:45

guy. He actually spoken

41:47

to Jason McInteer in this series, a critic,

41:49

Kevin. He said he's the pushback training at Ireland

41:51

because everyone was hungover. So they wouldn't

41:53

train first thing in the morning. They'd do a little

41:56

bit later so they had a bit more rest. to

42:00

ask about sadly like on the end of

42:02

the Keegan era which comes in like January 97 and

42:05

how much of a shock was it? It felt such

42:07

a shocking story. Yeah

42:09

it was a massive shock and there

42:12

was an offer of I think a five-year contract on

42:14

the table which they wanted him

42:16

to sign but it came at a time when they

42:19

were also floating the club on the stock

42:21

exchange basically and what

42:24

they'd done at Newcastle in that time they become such a

42:26

big club in the 90s that they'd started

42:29

this Newcastle sporting club which was basketball

42:32

ice hockey there was a Speedway

42:34

team and there was all these other Newcastle

42:37

teams in the city and they brought players

42:39

over from America to play for the basketball team the Newcastle

42:41

Eagles and there was the Newcastle

42:43

Vipers which was the ice hockey team all these Canadian

42:45

guys had come over and there was the Falcons

42:48

the rugby team as well and the Speedway

42:50

team but one of the things that they were going

42:52

to have to do was disband all of those

42:54

other clubs if they were going to float it and Kevin had been

42:57

a big part of helping to set up ice hockey,

42:59

basketball, rugby all of these

43:01

other things and he wasn't happy with that

43:03

because he felt he'd made friendships with the

43:05

basketball guys the ice hockey guys so when

43:08

they were getting disbanded he wasn't happy

43:11

so they apparently said look here's the contract

43:13

and Kevin says they put the contract on the table it's a five-year

43:15

contract you've got to sign it now or go he

43:18

would say I'm not going to sign it

43:20

if you're going to get rid of all these basketball and

43:22

the ice hockey team and everything like that so

43:24

this was the issue and they weren't

43:27

prepared to keep those going so that was it he walked out.

43:30

That sounds like such a Kevin Keegan story

43:33

to be like put my mates are on the ice hockey

43:35

team. Yeah exactly that. Yeah he'd spend a lot

43:37

of time with these guys he said people come over

43:39

from and they trusted him and he

43:41

said look we're going to do this we want the

43:44

basketball team to be the best team in British

43:46

basketball the ice hockey team win the ice hockey league

43:48

and it was this whole bit like Barcelona do I think

43:50

that's big sporting club of different sports

43:52

but when they wanted to float it on the stock exchange some

43:55

in his words people from London said now we

43:57

need to get rid of all that because it devalues

44:00

product is just a football and we go forward as a

44:02

football club. Kevin didn't want to let

44:04

the people down that he felt they trusted him

44:07

and that was what it was. So he just he went

44:09

home, he said to his wife Jean who's an incredible

44:11

lady as well and said look we're going that's

44:14

it we'll leave it. Never turned back it

44:16

was heartbreaking and Newcastle

44:18

as a city sort of went into a period of mourning

44:21

after Keegan left and it didn't matter what

44:23

happened afterwards. I was at the Paris Saint-Germain

44:25

game the other night where we beat them and people were

44:27

saying was this better or worse than the Barcelona

44:29

when they beat Barcelona and it was much better

44:31

this Paris Saint-Germain win because when Newcastle beat Barcelona 26

44:34

years ago whatever it was I think it

44:36

was 97 or something like that when

44:39

Newcastle beat Barcelona 3-2 Keegan

44:41

had just left a lot of the players

44:44

had been sold off and Kenny Dalgleish was

44:46

in the dugout and it felt like it was an end of

44:48

an era and the club was just on the decline whereas

44:52

the other night when they beat Paris Saint-Germain it feels

44:54

very much like the club's very much in

44:56

the sort of in liftoff mode at the moment.

44:58

So after Keegan left the club

45:01

it just really did it didn't matter who they brought in there's

45:03

some great managers came in but couldn't

45:06

lift the glue on time

45:08

side after Keegan left everyone was devastated

45:11

you know they'd not won anything and there was

45:13

a feeling that once Kevin had gone and

45:15

the chances of ever winning anything is gone as

45:17

well. This episode is

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Savings accounts by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Member

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FDIC, terms apply. It's

46:48

such a big pair of shoes to fill

46:51

and

46:51

you think Kenny Dalglish on paper

46:53

is the perfect candidate to take

46:55

Newcastle forward but it just felt like

46:58

it never worked. It just didn't click, did

47:00

it?

47:00

No, he was really unlucky Kenny because I

47:02

think you're right. It could have been anybody. It

47:05

was a bit like David Moyes going in

47:07

at Manchester United after Sir Alex. When

47:10

you ever replace a club legend,

47:12

I think David Moyes is a brilliant manager and

47:15

whoever had gone in there after Sir Alex was

47:17

bound to fail and it was a bit like that. I

47:19

agree with you. I think Kenny Dalglish was the perfect

47:21

man to come in. He had a great

47:24

relationship with Alan Scheer as well. They'd won the title

47:26

together at Blackburn and he'd actually

47:29

replaced Kevin Keegan previously at Liverpool

47:31

as a player and then got on and managed Liverpool

47:33

and had a great success there. So

47:36

on paper he was the perfect man but

47:38

the fans of Newcastle got this weird sort of connection.

47:41

It's reciprocated by Kevin. Kevin

47:43

to the fans and the fans of Kevin is this absolute

47:46

love that goes both ways and

47:49

when he's not around, it's

47:51

not the same. That's why Monday night

47:53

when he came up and met Eddie Howe and everything was such an

47:55

emotional night for the fans that were

47:57

there because he was back in the city

48:00

And it was almost like on the paper

48:02

said the next day, it was this sort of master handing

48:04

over the sort of responsibility

48:06

to the apprentice. And it felt very much like

48:08

that. But Kenny was unlucky. He

48:11

could have been anybody. And he did a while. I

48:13

mean, he was a deep Barcelona. I think they finished second under

48:15

him in the league as well. I think there was maybe a cup final

48:17

as well. But no, it just didn't

48:19

ever feel the same, weirdly, after Keegan

48:22

left. Yeah. And after Kenny Dalclish

48:24

came Rude Hullet. Again, superstar.

48:26

Yeah. Like in the

48:28

90s icon. But again,

48:29

that was one of the first managerial

48:32

appointments where I was really aware in the press

48:34

that there was lots of stories being leaked about

48:36

how badly it was going in

48:38

a way that I can't really remember many other kind

48:40

of managers in the 90s. I mean, aside

48:43

from that kind of Graham Taylor, there was a real

48:45

sense that Rude Hullet, a Newcastle, the players

48:47

didn't like him and stories were coming out about

48:49

his tenure.

48:51

Yeah, the players hated him. By any

48:53

fish and chips. That

48:55

was gone. I mean, the night that

48:57

I always remember under Rude, which is the famous one,

49:00

is that they played Sunderland at St. James's Park.

49:02

And you looked on the subs bench and

49:05

Alan Shearer and Duncan Ferguson are both sitting

49:07

on the subs bench with Faces of Thunder. And they've

49:09

not they've both been dropped and

49:11

we lose to Sunderland. And I remember the feeling

49:14

in the stadium was one of the worst

49:16

I've ever, ever known that night.

49:19

Bad enough to lose to Sunderland. But when you've got your two

49:21

best players sitting on the bench, because Rude

49:24

Hullet had thought that Ferguson and Shearer

49:26

were finished, thought Shearer's legs had

49:28

gone. So then when he left, Bobby Robson

49:31

came in and did the easiest thing in the world,

49:33

gave him the number nine shirt, put him back up front.

49:36

And of course, in Bobby's very first game, St. James's

49:38

Park, Shearer went and scored five goals.

49:41

Here's Sheffield Wednesday. They won eight nil. And

49:43

so Bobby was a brilliant manager for us,

49:46

absolutely brilliant. And again, he got

49:48

it back to similar to what Kevin

49:50

had had. And in my lifetime, it's

49:52

been Keegan, it's been Bobby Robson. And

49:54

now it's Eddie Howe. I put him up there with those

49:56

two. But yeah, Bobby was a brilliant manager

49:58

for us, totally understood. the city, he was a local

50:01

guy, he just got what the club was all about.

50:04

I've heard that Bobby Robson is a bit of a hero of

50:06

yours. I did a Newcastle stadium

50:08

tour actually a few years ago and I didn't realise that I kind

50:10

of hadn't really clocked there's a statue of Bobby

50:12

Robson at St James's Park

50:14

because in my mind he's not there for

50:16

a long period of time but the strength

50:19

of feeling the Newcastle fans appear to have for that

50:21

man is incredible.

50:23

Well the same as Kevin, he

50:25

picked Newcastle up when they were near the bottom of the

50:27

Premier League and guided them to

50:29

a mid-table finish which Eddie Howe did and

50:31

the following season they qualified for the Champions League

50:33

exactly the same as Eddie Howe but I think in those three

50:36

seasons that followed we finished

50:38

third, fourth and fifth and

50:40

then after the season we finished fifth he was sacked

50:43

because it was seen as a slide like third,

50:46

fourth and fifth are they getting worse right? No

50:48

Champions League and off he went. Just

50:50

looking back it was incredible because after

50:53

that we were nowhere near those

50:55

sort of top places for a long time. I

50:57

think the fans felt really bad for Bobby

51:00

that yeah he was a local guy everyone loved him

51:02

and he did a great job with not a very

51:04

good team he had Shearer but he

51:07

didn't have that many good players he bought some good young

51:09

players at the time like Jermaine G. Knapp and Craig

51:12

Bellamy and players like that and Kieran Dyer

51:14

he didn't have much money to spend either he didn't spend

51:16

a lot of money and he took them into the Champions

51:19

League so you know yeah Bobby was a

51:21

huge hero of mine and a huge hero of all

51:23

Newcastle fans yeah. Did you ever meet him? Yeah

51:26

I did I had dinner at his house. Oh what? Yeah

51:29

and his house like? Amazing

51:31

so the first thing I remember that when you

51:33

walk in his door stops

51:36

are manager of the month trophies so

51:39

you walk in there's a Barclays

51:41

Premier League manager of the month trophy wedging

51:44

the front door open and he's got them around his ass keeping

51:46

the doors up with and a giant

51:49

painting of him and Brazilian Ronaldo

51:51

in his living room because Brazilian Ronaldo

51:54

he signed him nothing he signed him for PSV

51:56

and then he took him to Barcelona and

51:58

he was like a son to... to Bobby.

52:00

Yeah, I was very close to Bobby and I still

52:03

to this day I'm very close with his two sons, Andrew

52:05

Mark as well and I host his annual

52:07

golf day out in Portugal which they still have every

52:10

year. They raise money for an orphanage in Portugal. So

52:12

yeah, the Robson family and Lady Elsie, yeah,

52:15

mean a lot to me. Bobby was absolutely sensational.

52:18

Oh man, what a story. Just

52:20

quickly on Rudehullit, you must have heard the story.

52:22

I can't remember this in Alan Shearer's

52:25

book. Rudehullit kind of lost the

52:27

team and one thing he did to try and get

52:29

everybody back on

52:29

side was showering with the players. Have

52:32

I dreamt this? Have you dreamt

52:34

it? I'm sure it's in Shearer's book and Shearer's

52:36

book was like, oh, we got in the shower with them after to kind

52:39

of go like, I'm one of you. That wouldn't surprise

52:41

me. I think

52:43

Rudehullit was in the right place. He was just

52:46

a wrong appointment. But I think the

52:48

story I remember was with the

52:50

late great Gary Speed and he'd seen

52:52

Rudehullit on a night out once in

52:55

what the local Italian had gone up and gone, hi,

52:57

I tried to engage some comments. Rudehullit

53:00

just didn't engage in any conversation

53:02

with

53:02

him whatsoever. The story goes that

53:04

the following Monday at training, Rudehullit

53:07

went absolutely mad with Speed though.

53:09

He's like, don't speak to me when we're out of here. I'm in

53:11

public. That's my private life. He had this

53:14

thing about the senior players at the club. He's

53:16

looking from the outside, the likes of

53:19

Gary Speed. Rob Lee, who

53:21

was a brilliant player for us, he wasn't even given

53:23

a squad number. He was dumped into

53:25

the reserves. Stuart Pearce was dumped

53:27

into the reserves. He had a real issue

53:30

with the senior players and he wanted to play the younger players.

53:32

So again, when Bobby Robson came, it was quite simple.

53:35

He gave Rob Lee a squad number. So Rob

53:37

Lee, who'd always been our number seven, was given

53:39

squad number 37 by Bobby Robson and brought

53:42

into the squad. Alan Shearer brought

53:44

back into the team. And that's all Bobby

53:46

needed to do. He just got the senior players on

53:48

side, brought them all back into the fold

53:51

and Newcastle just flew as a result. But Rudeh

53:54

got it wrong. He just spinned off all the senior players

53:56

basically and all the

53:58

pros.

53:59

those players from that period, if you ask what's the worst

54:02

tackle, one of these things that comes up with a lot

54:04

of the talk-ins and shows you do, you ask what's the worst

54:06

tackle you've ever seen. A lot of

54:08

the players from that period said that the worst tackle they ever

54:11

saw was Stuart Pearce on

54:13

Ruud Hulleck in a training session, where

54:16

they had a training session and Ruud

54:18

got involved. Like you said, so probably following on

54:20

from your story, Chris, about getting in the showers,

54:22

probably true. I had a training match

54:25

and Ruud Hulleck got involved and apparently

54:27

it was all set up and someone

54:29

rolled one a bit

54:29

short and gave Stuart Pearce a

54:32

50-50 and he took ball, man,

54:34

and Ruud had flied and it was

54:36

like the worst tackle anyone's ever seen. It

54:40

was like, we've done that for all the senior

54:42

players at the club. It was

54:45

famous, that tackle. Oh man,

54:47

90s Newcastle, what

54:49

a period of time, what a club, it was just magic.

54:53

The podcast is We're Still Fighting for this title, it's available

54:55

on anotherslice.com and it comes out on the 6th of November

54:58

and it is brilliant. It's so evocative

55:00

and like Pete says, the guys you've got on that podcast

55:02

is brilliant, that cast of characters just

55:05

sums up the 90s, it's excellent. My

55:07

final question to you Pete is, we ask this

55:09

of all our guests, if I gave you the option

55:12

to go back to the 1st of January 1990 and live

55:14

it all again, can

55:17

I just interrupt and say on the 1st of January 1990 Wolves

55:20

beat Newcastle 4-1 at St James'

55:22

Park, maybe go for the 2nd

55:24

of January, this is the day Bully scored

55:26

four goals at St James' Park. I

55:29

remember that, I remember that. That was the 1st of

55:31

January, that's etched into the memory. Yeah, that's

55:33

how bad things were. This is the first

55:35

time we've ever asked that question, if someone knows what they

55:38

did on New Year's Day 1990. That was the day, yeah. That

55:41

was great, Steve Fullwell, what a player he was.

55:43

Look, in answer to

55:44

your question, yes, I would do it all again. Someone

55:47

asked, I say stupid poem that I wrote when

55:49

Keegan walks out, but I always say, we came

55:51

so close, but we have no regrets.

55:54

The football back then was as good as it

55:56

gets, and that's how I feel. I'd

55:58

never go back. It was... in some

56:00

ways, it's almost better

56:02

that we didn't win anything. And the only reason

56:05

I touched on this start, it's just

56:07

left this unbelievable drive

56:09

and desire in the city. And

56:11

the day that we finally

56:13

do win something, and you hope it's not too

56:16

far away, that outpouring of emotion

56:18

in the city will be unbelievable. And that

56:20

trophy won't just be for Eddie

56:23

Howe and the fans today. It'll be

56:25

for Sir Bobby, it'll be for Kevin Keegan, it'll

56:27

be a build up of emotion

56:30

which really started in that team in the 90s. So

56:32

yeah, I would change nothing. I'd

56:34

go back and do it all again in a heartbeat, lads. Oh,

56:37

man, actually, I'm gonna say I want Newcastle

56:39

win something. I do know. That was amazing.

56:42

Yeah.

56:43

Brilliant. Pete

56:45

Graves, thank you. We're still fine for this title

56:47

is the podcast. And here comes an Alexa now.

56:59

Those

57:19

in attendance watch on in disbelief as the team

57:22

throw away a 3-1 half-time lead

57:25

to lose 4-3. Season

57:27

ticket holder Paul Dodds was one of those watching

57:30

on and fearing for the club's future.

57:32

He

57:49

was still a day out at the time, you know,

57:51

you still got to

57:54

go to the game, still got to go to the ground. But

57:56

with no real kind of hope

57:58

or passion, you know, that you... ever going to win anything,

58:01

you know, ever again. Basically that was

58:03

the kind of feeling, you know, some of

58:06

the football you were watching and some of

58:08

the players that had obviously just went

58:10

up the scratch. So yeah, it was hard,

58:12

but you know, you

58:14

just stick with them, you just stick with them.

58:17

Paul Fromon the pitch had been matched

58:19

by instability off it, bitter

58:21

boardroom battles engulfed the club throughout

58:24

the 1991-92 campaign,

58:26

with three different chairman assuming control.

58:29

Aussie

58:29

R. D. Lez's time as manager

58:31

would come to an end after the third chairman,

58:34

Sir John Hall, took full charge of the

58:36

club.

58:37

A dismal five-two away defeat

58:39

at fellow strugglers Oxford United in early

58:41

February proved to be the final

58:43

straw. He is lifelong fan and

58:45

season ticket holder Martin McElhone, followed

58:48

by Newcastle midfielder Lee Clark.

58:51

We were full of hope with Aussie when he first

58:53

arrived and he played as a tight end football

58:56

and he put a lot of the younger ones

58:58

in the play, but then all

59:00

of a sudden we would just get beat and beat

59:02

and beat and you could see

59:04

the club was going to get relegated, you could see exactly

59:07

what was going to happen and that was out of division two

59:09

in division three. The young

59:11

players that he brought in looked shell

59:13

shocked and the older players that he had,

59:16

they didn't have enough on

59:18

them to drag teams through. I

59:20

remember Sir John Hall and Freddie Fletcher

59:23

saying, you know, it was an awful day

59:25

when they had to tell Aussie he was losing his job

59:27

and the first thing Aussie done was with the

59:29

local media guys who, you know, covered

59:31

Newcastle at the time, he invited all them round

59:33

to his home in Jesmond for a cup

59:36

of tea and glass of beer or whatever

59:38

they wanted and he was just such a great

59:40

bloke so you feel, you feel that guilt.

59:43

A drop down to the third tier of English football

59:45

for the first time in the club's history had

59:47

now become a real possibility. Morale

59:50

among the playing squad was at an all-time low.

59:52

Decline in the region was also not

59:54

exclusive to the football club. Deindustrialisation

59:58

throughout the 1980s had led to a led to mass

1:00:00

job losses and unemployment.

1:00:02

Factory, shipyard and pit closures

1:00:05

devastated thousands of families,

1:00:07

leaving the prospect of no work, no

1:00:10

income,

1:00:10

no future. Here's Paul Dodds.

1:00:13

Paul Dodds

1:00:13

I think the Northeast of England, I don't know

1:00:15

whether we feel victimised

1:00:17

at times, but we feel as though we

1:00:20

do get left out a bit, that particular sort

1:00:22

of time, that era. It

1:00:24

was a very hard time to grow up in. We

1:00:28

went through a lot of economic changes

1:00:31

with the, as regards to the coal mines,

1:00:34

the shipbuilding industry took a big

1:00:36

hit. Local to where we live, we

1:00:38

lost our steelworks in 1980, we

1:00:40

lost 5,000-6,000

1:00:43

jobs in the small community where we were, where

1:00:45

we lived. But yeah, it was struggling.

1:00:49

The key side now

1:00:50

in Newcastle is a

1:00:52

fantastic place, but going

1:00:54

back to the 1980s and that kind

1:00:56

of time, it was pretty

1:00:58

much run down. Paul Dodds Football

1:00:59

was a different game in the 80s. Hooliganism

1:01:03

had been rife on the terraces for the past two

1:01:05

decades. Outbreaks of violence

1:01:07

inside and outside of football grounds

1:01:09

dominated the front pages, as well

1:01:12

as the back pages of the national newspapers.

1:01:15

Coined the English disease, hooliganism

1:01:18

resulted in dwindling tendencies. Crumbling,

1:01:21

decrepit stadiums added to the sense

1:01:23

of desolation and pointed to a bleak

1:01:26

future for the game. These

1:01:28

are Martin Mucklehone's memories of that

1:01:30

time.

1:01:31

Football was dying on the field a little bit. The

1:01:33

crowds were down, clubs were getting

1:01:35

about 18,000 to 20,000 at the time. There

1:01:38

was a lot of empty space as well. Football

1:01:40

wasn't quite the product, if you're

1:01:42

going to call it that, that it is now. There

1:01:44

didn't seem to be the will to do anything about

1:01:47

what was happening inside and outside

1:01:49

grounds with hooliganism and football

1:01:51

fans were treaded badly. Football fans

1:01:54

were treaded like cattle. There certainly

1:01:56

wasn't the care

1:01:58

given to supporters. that

1:02:00

you would see as no. There wasn't the organisation

1:02:03

there is now. Football did

1:02:05

seem to be a dying industry.

1:02:10

The city of Newcastle was

1:02:12

in need of hope.

1:02:14

For Martin Hardy, a football journalist for The Times

1:02:16

and author of the book Touching Distance, the

1:02:18

football club had always been at the heart

1:02:21

and soul of the community. You

1:02:23

cannot escape Newcastle United. If

1:02:25

you're a young person going to a match, you

1:02:28

may walk down... And this is not a cliché,

1:02:30

this is the truth of when I was growing up. You

1:02:33

would walk down the street and you'd walk past your

1:02:35

friends, parents, a mother or a father

1:02:37

who didn't go anymore and they would know

1:02:39

the score and they would know who was playing.

1:02:42

And if they lost, they would call you

1:02:44

a mug in a very jocular

1:02:46

fashion. It's a very, very difficult

1:02:48

football club to escape from. And

1:02:51

I outspoke to an agent that passed off and he said,

1:02:53

a football club hasn't got a mood. And I said, a football

1:02:55

club definitely has a mood. And

1:02:58

that mood in Newcastle would propel through

1:03:00

the city and from Newcastle

1:03:02

upon Tyne to North Tyne side to Northumberland.

1:03:04

The would-be saviour of this story

1:03:07

could be found on the sunny coast of Spain.

1:03:09

Following retirement from playing former England

1:03:11

international Kevin Keegan had moved to

1:03:14

Marbella.

1:03:15

Winning the Ballon d'Or in successive seasons

1:03:17

in 1978 and 1979, it

1:03:20

cemented his place amongst football

1:03:22

royalty and a return to football

1:03:25

was not on the agenda. However,

1:03:28

one phone call would change the course

1:03:30

of history for him and Newcastle

1:03:32

United. Newcastle go to Oxford

1:03:35

and that's when the walls come

1:03:37

crashing in and it's

1:03:40

5-2 in the aftermath. Sir

1:03:42

John Hall has given an interview to Bob

1:03:44

Cass at the Mail on Sunday backing Ozi

1:03:46

Ordealis. Unbeknownst to him,

1:03:49

his son Douglas Hall and

1:03:51

Freddie Shetbed have already made contact

1:03:53

with Kevin Keegan in Spain. And he

1:03:55

was unaware of that. The Mail on Sunday came

1:03:57

out on Sunday following the 5-2 defeat. were

1:04:00

in motion for Keegan to come back it was just that Sir

1:04:02

John Hall was one of them last to

1:04:04

be made aware of it. So on the Monday

1:04:07

Sir John Hall is in London shotting for

1:04:10

trees because he's just bought

1:04:12

Winyard Hall and he's a

1:04:14

very very keen agriculturalist.

1:04:17

Unbeknownst to him he then gets a call from Sheppard

1:04:20

and he's starting to say you're going to meet Kevin Keegan in

1:04:22

London now and John Hall then goes off

1:04:24

to meet Kevin Keegan and the

1:04:27

whole history of the club changes from

1:04:29

there.

1:04:37

Brilliant that was Pete Graves how good was

1:04:40

that Parry? Amazing. I just love

1:04:42

that. We texted each other after that saying

1:04:44

don't you really want Newcastle to win something then?

1:04:47

No man you just got caught up

1:04:49

in the romanticism of it man yeah

1:04:51

you turn me around Pete and here's how we're

1:04:53

going to finish this episode Michael. Have you got a

1:04:56

quiz for us? We're going to have a quick game of starting 11

1:04:59

the obvious choice being 3rd of April 1996

1:05:02

Liverpool versus Newcastle United.

1:05:05

Wow. You pick a player that played in

1:05:07

that game or hopefully

1:05:07

played in that game if they didn't

1:05:10

play or they were a substitute unused

1:05:12

or otherwise you lose the game at sudden

1:05:14

death. Parry would you like to pick

1:05:16

first?

1:05:18

Collymour. Correct.

1:05:22

Fassidino Esprita.

1:05:24

Correct. John

1:05:26

Barnes. Correct.

1:05:30

Les Ferdinand.

1:05:32

Correct.

1:05:34

David James.

1:05:36

Correct. Pavel

1:05:39

Cernacek. Correct.

1:05:44

David Ginola.

1:05:46

Correct. David Batty.

1:05:49

Correct.

1:05:51

Robbie

1:05:55

Thaler. Correct.

1:06:00

I'm

1:06:00

getting

1:06:03

into sketchy territory now. Warren Barton.

1:06:05

Oh dear. Incorrect. Harry

1:06:07

takes the victory. I'll run you

1:06:09

through the

1:06:11

teams real quick. Liverpool's

1:06:17

David James, Mark Wright, John Scales,

1:06:19

Neil Ruddock, Jason Macateer, Jamie

1:06:21

Redknapp, John Barnes, Rob

1:06:23

Jones, Steve McManaman, Stan Collimore

1:06:26

and Robbie Fowler. So there's a few

1:06:28

more gettables there I would have thought. And

1:06:30

the Newcastle United was Pavel Cernacek, Steve

1:06:32

Watson, Steve Howie, Philippe Albert,

1:06:35

John Beresford, Peter Beardsley,

1:06:38

David Batty, Rob Lee, David Ginola,

1:06:40

Faustini Asprea and Les Ferdinand.

1:06:44

Was Barton on the bench? No,

1:06:46

not even on the bench. Wow. Benches Peacock,

1:06:48

Keith Gillespie and Lee Clark. Well there you

1:06:50

go. Congratulations, Parry. You get to choose

1:06:52

the song that plays us out of this episode. And might

1:06:54

I suggest you pick something with a

1:06:57

Geordie twist? I mean, yeah, I was

1:06:59

going to go for Fog on the Tine. I mean, is that

1:07:01

a real one? No,

1:07:04

no. It's perfect for this. Brilliant. That's

1:07:06

it for this week. Thank you so much

1:07:09

for listening. This week's outro comes courtesy

1:07:11

of Sal Tariq who says, time

1:07:13

has got a losta. Ruby Costa.

1:07:16

We'll see you next week. Come on. We'll

1:07:48

see you next week. I'm

1:09:00

going to show you the seven of

1:09:03

the most, everybody

1:09:06

do their thing. You look like you're just

1:09:08

selling those when you're getting

1:09:11

those shorty checks. Now come around and sit

1:09:14

on down, you know you're gonna know. Spread

1:09:19

the word all over town, yes I'll

1:09:21

show you. Come on.

1:09:27

Come on. Come

1:09:33

on. Come

1:09:38

on. Come

1:09:46

on. Come

1:09:51

on. Come

1:10:02

on. Come

1:10:07

on. Come

1:10:12

on. Come

1:10:19

on. Come

1:10:24

on. Come

1:10:31

on. Come

1:10:36

on. Come

1:10:43

on.