0:01

Today on the R2RB podcast

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I have Paul Callan , singer , songwriter

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from County Luce , Ireland , and did

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I pronounce that correctly ? It's

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Lous Lous , as in so

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.

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That's .

0:13

Lous . All right , Thank you

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and welcome Paul . I appreciate

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you being here and joining me . How are you ?

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I'm great . Thank you very much . County Lous

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has the honour of being the smallest

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county in Ireland .

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Does it ? Oh my gosh . So I

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always have to say , whenever I'm speaking to somebody

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from Ireland my grandmother was from Belfast

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.

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OK , but an hour away .

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Oh , that's not far . Oh , wow , ok , all

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right , but you live out on

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the outskirts of the city . You're

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away from the hustle and the bustle .

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Well , I'm also an hour away

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from Dublin , ok , but

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we're very fortunate . We have a , we own

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a woodland and I kind of hang out

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there .

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That sounds like a good place to hang out .

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Yes .

1:00

All right . So I like to ask two questions to

1:02

get us warmed up . If you could collaborate

1:04

with any singer songwriter , who would it be

1:07

and why ?

1:09

You know , I was thinking about this and

1:11

I think of MF Doom have you

1:13

heard of MF Doom . No , he's

1:16

a rapper , but I suppose

1:18

he's . They say

1:21

he's your favourite rapper's favourite

1:23

rapper , but he's just

1:25

a very unique artist . Unfortunately

1:28

he died , I think last year

1:30

, but

1:32

I would , I would feel some

1:34

kind of kinship with him because of his method , his

1:36

production method , you know . Oh , OK .

1:39

Very good , Very good . Worth checking out

1:41

. I will absolutely . And

1:43

if you could have one superpower , which one

1:45

would it be ?

1:47

I would love to have the superpower that would

1:49

only surround me with good people

1:51

and positivity . That

1:54

would be a great superpower to have .

1:56

That would be a fantastic superpower to have

1:58

. I might share that one . So

2:02

share with us about your musical

2:04

journey . What inspired you to pursue a

2:06

career as an independent artist

2:08

, and was music always with

2:10

you , part of you , from early

2:13

being , at an early age ?

2:17

Yeah , my mother . When I was younger she

2:21

made me , force

2:23

me . She wanted to go to learn traditional

2:25

Irish music and

2:28

that I wouldn't be a fan of traditional Irish

2:30

music . But I unknowingly

2:33

learned all the fundamentals that

2:36

really stood to me later in life when

2:38

I really wanted to play music

2:41

and write music . I

2:43

also played in a brass band as

2:45

a kid .

2:46

Oh , wow .

2:49

So that kind of also helped , because everything

2:52

on my recordings I do on my own . So

2:56

all these things I learned as a kid . As I said

2:58

, I didn't really feel like I was

3:00

learning anything , but I really did , you know

3:02

, and it stood to me . But

3:05

the big influence , I

3:07

must say , was Johnny Maher , the

3:09

guitarist from the Smiths , and

3:13

everything about him . The

3:15

sound , the sound was , even though it was a very

3:17

familiar sound to his 60s

3:19

music , but he

3:22

just had a swagger , you know , it was amazing

3:24

and I wanted to do that . So

3:28

at the end of the meeting , johnny Maher

3:30

, completely by accident , oh , wow . I

3:33

lived and worked as a bicycle courier

3:36

in London in the late 1980s

3:39

, and then

3:42

I was having my lunch on

3:44

a park bench and he was beside

3:46

me only Johnny Maher .

3:47

No way .

3:49

It was very cool , a bit of half an hour of

3:52

just chatting .

3:53

It was very nice , oh

3:56

my gosh Of all places

3:58

, eating lunch on a park bench

4:00

.

4:01

Well , it was called Soho Square

4:03

and a lot of record companies were

4:05

based in Soho Square , so

4:07

you wouldn't know who you'd see there .

4:09

Yeah , I like

4:11

that one , oh my gosh . So

4:13

describe your music , because I

4:16

know it's been described as alternative

4:18

rock and I think it's more .

4:21

Well , you know

4:23

, it's not that I would find it hard to

4:25

pinpoint it I

4:28

don't really operate within any

4:31

. I try not to operate within

4:33

any particular genre . It's

4:35

indie music or independent

4:37

music . But the

4:39

only real constant in my songs would be

4:41

me , and I

4:44

think that's the best way to be . Really

4:46

, you know , it's like the big

4:49

single songwriter or

4:51

musicians or bands I love in my life

4:53

. There's only one of them so

4:56

, and they would be hard to classify

4:59

some of them too , you know . So

5:02

I suppose it's rock and roll in the broader

5:04

sense , but I apply

5:06

myself , and because it's

5:08

just me , I like to

5:10

switch heads and try

5:12

to do as best a job in every

5:14

role as I can . So

5:17

that's the best , the

5:19

best combination I can give you , yeah

5:21

, yeah , no , and being an independent

5:23

artist .

5:26

What is that for you , being an independent artist

5:28

, being able to be completely

5:30

your true self ?

5:33

Yeah , well , I was involved in a lot of bands and

5:35

over the years and

5:38

there's always struggles in

5:40

bands and for whatever

5:42

reason , for power or ego or

5:46

just being bored with each other . I

5:49

suppose , being independent , I

5:51

can make any decisions I like . There

5:54

is a record company I'm kind of involved

5:57

with . It's an independent label from

5:59

London , but

6:01

they just accept

6:04

my music and tell

6:07

me the like . That's about that . You

6:09

know , it's an added , some added

6:11

poodles to be associated with them . But

6:14

, yeah , I

6:16

do what I like . Basically it's beautiful my

6:19

son I'm an 11-year-old boy

6:21

and he hears it in

6:23

the process and

6:25

he sometimes offers up some

6:28

nuggets . But yeah

6:31

, it's just about doing it myself , you

6:33

know .

6:34

Is there a downside to being an independent artist

6:36

for you ?

6:39

I mean not really to be

6:41

honest . There's

6:45

nothing I really want , there's nothing I think

6:47

I'm really missing , except the private

6:49

jet . Everything's

6:54

good as it is .

6:55

And the private label that you mentioned . Do they help

6:58

you distribute your music ?

7:01

No , the kind of , I suppose , would

7:04

help put the word out . They

7:07

call it a garden ward , they're

7:10

based in London and

7:12

they would also send my

7:14

music out to radio sessions and for

7:17

review and things like that , you know .

7:22

And you write your own songs , and

7:24

where do you draw your inspiration from ? And

7:28

have you written songs from the

7:30

very beginning ?

7:33

Yes , when I was a kid I

7:36

was playing a tin whistle , you know like a penny whistle

7:38

. I learned how to play that and

7:41

I would learn traditional Irish

7:43

music and then I started trying

7:46

to learn songs I really liked and

7:48

picking out melodies . And melodies

7:51

really were a trap for me . So

7:54

from an early age I was kind of thinking

7:56

about melody and what

7:58

it meant for me . But then

8:01

the Beach Boys , who are the

8:03

pinnacle and , I suppose , the

8:05

template for everything I

8:07

love , like any other bands

8:10

or musicians . I like

8:12

them because there's shades of the Beach Boys there

8:14

, you know . So everything

8:17

starts with a melody for me and

8:19

sometimes it comes

8:21

and sometimes it doesn't . So

8:23

I'm lucky that I can operate

8:25

on whimsy , you

8:28

know when I feel that I do it . So

8:31

there's no real explanation for me

8:33

where it comes from and

8:35

I could watch lyrical and say

8:37

the birds and the

8:40

trees and all that . But it's not that it

8:42

just happens , it's just talks , really

8:44

, you know .

8:46

Yeah , it's amazing because that's one of

8:48

the questions I like to ask what the writing

8:50

process is , or what you draw from

8:52

, and I always , I always , and everybody's

8:55

different . Everybody has a different process

8:57

and of course , that's where all this great music comes

8:59

from , because it is so different . Can

9:02

you share a memorable moment or experience

9:04

that has shaped your musical career thus

9:06

far ?

9:08

Well , you know , I was thinking about that one too . Unfortunately

9:11

it's a negative one . I

9:15

was a good

9:17

foil back . I was immersed in

9:19

music and I was actually playing with the band

9:21

. But

9:23

there was record company interest and

9:26

we were bolstered

9:28

by the responses we were getting . But

9:33

my music was stolen . I

9:36

won't go into it beyond that . It

9:38

was a fairly major thing and it was

9:40

certainly a major thing to happen in my life . There was

9:42

some success brought to the people

9:44

who stole my music After

9:49

a while . Of course these were my friends

9:51

that were there . It was very upsetting

9:53

but it

9:56

made me think that there must be something worth

9:58

stealing . So

10:00

I kind of rely on that

10:02

a bit , you know , as

10:05

a positive experience in the end .

10:07

Yeah , it took a negative and turned it into a positive

10:10

.

10:10

It took a long while . It wasn't an easy thing

10:12

no , not at all

10:15

, but it was a horrible experience

10:17

, oh yeah , but

10:19

yeah , anyway , it happened

10:21

and here we are .

10:22

And here you are . And here you are , Absolutely

10:24

so actually I was going to ask you about

10:27

you know , your Irish heritage and the influence

10:29

on your music , but that's just been

10:31

a part of it from the beginning .

10:33

Well , everybody in Ireland has a story or a song

10:36

and there

10:38

are a lot of bands and a lot of musicians here

10:40

on the world stage . Ireland's

10:43

a pretty heavy hitter . So

10:45

the traditional if

10:47

your question is regarding the

10:49

traditional music , I suppose

10:51

, like I learned as a kid

10:53

but I most certainly wouldn't be

10:55

a fan of it , I've tried

10:57

it later in life , I've tried to find

11:00

something in it , but it doesn't do

11:02

it for me . But being

11:04

Irish definitely does

11:06

something in us that

11:08

has to get out .

11:10

It is , oh my gosh , and just real quick , because I

11:12

mentioned before we started the interview , my grandmother being

11:15

from Ireland as well .

11:16

Yeah .

11:17

I think everybody from Ireland . Either they sing or they

11:19

play an instrument , or and

11:21

she could do both . She had a beautiful voice and

11:23

she played the harmonica .

11:25

Yeah , yeah , you know the most

11:28

Irish people I've met . I lived in Cleveland

11:30

for a couple of years in Ohio

11:32

. Oh wow , I met an awful

11:34

lot of Irish people in Ohio

11:36

.

11:38

That's great . Oh my gosh . Yeah

11:40

, we're a great group . So

11:43

during I love this one during

11:45

the COVID-19 lockdown , you made a commitment

11:47

to release one song a month . So

11:49

why did you challenge yourself to do that and

11:52

how did it all work out ?

11:55

Initially I was . I was really

11:58

trying to knuckle down . I stopped for

12:01

playing music for a long time and

12:05

in probably a year or two

12:07

before lockdown , I was trying to get

12:10

my mojo back or , you know , get into

12:13

it . But a friend suggested I

12:15

was considering maybe working on an album , but

12:18

that could take 10 years , you know , yeah

12:21

. So a friend suggested why don't you commit

12:23

to one song

12:26

a month as an exercise ? So

12:28

I committed to it and I had to do it then

12:31

because I committed to

12:33

myself and I

12:35

did it once every month . It

12:37

became my first solo album

12:39

. So it

12:41

was tough and really

12:44

cool and amazing and I

12:46

couldn't have been more immersed . So

12:48

I also learned how to use

12:50

my equipment properly , you know

12:52

. So it was good for that .

12:55

Yeah , sometimes , when you're put in that type of position

12:57

, so much more comes out of it because

12:59

, just like you just said , you had to learn your own

13:02

equipment even better .

13:05

Yeah , Well , it was also averaging

13:08

about three songs for every

13:10

once to get one song . It

13:12

was quite a lot of work and I'm

13:14

very fortunate for me that the inspiration

13:17

when it happens it tends to come easy

13:19

. But the 99%

13:22

perspiration , especially like

13:24

I bought some equipment just

13:27

before lockdown and then lockdown happened

13:29

, it was great . I didn't excuse to sit at

13:31

it .

13:32

Right .

13:33

An excellent project . Definitely

13:35

I would recommend it because not

13:37

only the writing

13:40

and music , but recording it , producing

13:42

it in every way , artwork

13:44

do , finding radio stations

13:47

to play it , and it was incredible

13:50

. Yeah , total flex .

13:52

Absolutely . I think some of the best music

13:55

has come out came out during that time as

13:57

well , because I think , exactly for what you

13:59

had said , everybody was so totally

14:01

immersed into it .

14:02

Yeah .

14:03

So focused on it that

14:05

, yeah , it's a lot of great music came from

14:07

there . Who

14:09

does the artwork for your albums

14:11

? I do everything myself .

14:13

Do you ? Yeah , yeah . Again , it

14:15

was all just

14:17

just

14:20

go into it and experiment and see can I

14:22

do it . And a big thing

14:24

for me as being on

14:26

my own is

14:29

having to have remind

14:32

myself that I can do it . You know you're

14:34

sticking your neck out quite a lot as

14:36

a solo artist .

14:38

Absolutely .

14:39

And so I just applied the same rule with

14:42

everything else do it and just ignore

14:44

what I might think people think . It's

14:47

been positive . It's been a great exercise too

14:49

, and I really enjoy it , yeah .

14:51

Yeah , no , I find your artwork

14:54

very intriguing and putting

14:56

the artwork with the songs

14:58

that are in that album . Now

15:01

does each album have what

15:04

I would say would have its own message ? Is

15:07

it all kind of interlocking

15:09

with each song , with each other ?

15:13

No , not necessarily . You mean like a concept

15:15

. Yeah Well

15:18

, the FUNZY , the first

15:20

album , my first solo album . I

15:22

suppose the concept behind that was to

15:24

deliver it in a year , so

15:29

everything was connected in some way . And

15:31

then the running order on the

15:33

album was , as they come out

15:36

, like January through to December , and

15:38

then , to spice it up , I had another couple

15:40

of songs to put in as well .

15:42

Yeah , that's it . Yeah , the long playlist .

15:44

The second one . The last one , I

15:46

suppose , was the first

15:48

time I ever approached an

15:50

actual project to sit and write

15:53

however many songs to whittle it down

15:55

to . There was 14 on that

15:57

album , yeah , so that

15:59

was the first time I ever . I suppose the concept there

16:02

was to see could I do it and

16:04

not drive myself crazy ? But I was lucky

16:06

all your time ? And then I sent some early

16:09

versions to the record company and

16:13

they got on board . So there

16:15

was another kind of impetus to keep

16:17

going . So

16:19

no concept except

16:22

completion . That's

16:24

the concept .

16:26

So , from that very first album that you

16:28

put together to your last album

16:30

, which is Over my Wishes , yes

16:32

. So over how many years , from

16:34

your first album to now ?

16:37

They were all done from . The

16:40

first album was released six

16:44

months before the second one .

16:46

Oh well , okay , yeah , yeah .

16:48

Once I stopped and

16:51

it was in direct relation to

16:53

my music having been stolen my

16:56

reaction to it was to stop , because

17:00

I felt that

17:03

once I had put myself out there and

17:05

I had raised my head , so to speak , and

17:08

the result was there was people waiting in

17:10

the long grass to steal

17:13

from me Friends

17:15

, as I said . So I stopped , and I stopped

17:17

for quite a while . So

17:20

once I took

17:22

the chocks out from under the wheels , I

17:25

kept it going and still going to .

17:26

Good , good , good . I'm very

17:29

happy with that , absolutely . Do

17:31

you have a favorite album or song amongst

17:34

all that you've done ?

17:36

I think it's a common thread would be the

17:39

most recent . Some in

17:42

the initial stages would be my favorite , but

17:45

it can get pretty intense

17:48

when you're . It's

17:50

a lot of repetition when you're producing , you know Right

17:52

, and the

17:54

short answer is the most recent thing I'm

17:57

dealing with is my favorite .

17:59

Oh , nice , cool . So what advice

18:02

would you give another independent

18:04

artist just starting out ? What

18:07

would you advise them to do , not to do

18:09

what would be at the top of your list ?

18:12

Well , you know , for me the beauty is

18:14

in the doing and

18:16

realizing that really

18:19

let me flow and let me love

18:22

it and let me enjoy it . So to anybody

18:24

in the same position is really

18:26

look hard at your motive . If

18:29

you want to be famous , I

18:33

think there's a possibility you're

18:35

wasting your time . But if you want to

18:37

make , if you want to do , if

18:39

you want to create , well then

18:42

do it .

18:44

Absolutely , absolutely . So this

18:46

is the other question I've been asking lately . Ai

18:50

artificial intelligence with chat bot

18:53

and chat GPT . Do

18:57

you have any thoughts ? Do you have any feelings on it ? Have

19:00

you used it ?

19:02

I'm in the middle of nowhere here and

19:04

it suits , so

19:07

I don't think that's

19:10

anything I would even consider

19:12

dabbling with . It

19:14

sometimes feels like recording on a

19:16

computer is cheating enough because

19:19

of the infinite tracks . Like

19:22

I can create orchestral

19:25

pieces here on my own . That

19:27

feels like cheating . I

19:29

don't need an orchestra Like 50

19:32

years ago you would have needed an orchestra so

19:34

I'm cheating enough without

19:36

doing that . I

19:39

don't understand it anyway , to be honest , yeah

19:43

, I've been doing my little research

19:45

.

19:45

I've used it here and there in different things

19:47

, but if you don't really

19:50

take the time to understand

19:52

it , it can create a big

19:54

problem .

19:55

Yeah , there's a narrow fear about it , really isn't

19:57

there yeah , absolutely . Yeah .

20:01

And last year I remember saying to my

20:03

partner , I said to him we were talking about

20:05

something and I said AI is next . Because

20:07

no , it's not . I said yeah , it is here

20:10

we are , You're already yeah . Yeah

20:12

, so you do

20:14

all your do your own recordings

20:17

, you do your own editing , producing

20:19

, mastering , and then you

20:21

also do all your own marketing

20:23

.

20:25

Everything . Yes , you know I don't have a

20:27

very big budget . If I had a budget

20:29

, there's elements of it . Other

20:32

people would most certainly be better than I am

20:34

at it , but

20:36

at the minute I am doing it all on my own

20:38

.

20:39

So which platform do you find

20:41

works the best for you ?

20:44

Radio stations . Yeah

20:47

, like

20:50

I'm very lucky , because of people like yourself

20:52

, deborah , my music's been

20:54

played all over the world . I

20:57

don't know how to , how I would promote

21:00

myself on Spotify . I

21:02

make videos also . Some people

21:04

watch them , but there's

21:07

not millions of people rushing to see them

21:09

, but it's just an experience . My

21:11

son helps me on some of them and film

21:13

them or we discuss ideas

21:16

. But yeah , as

21:18

I said , it's in the doing . It

21:21

was nice to get a

21:23

bit of an acknowledgement . As

21:26

I said , the Gardeux Nord , the record company

21:28

, got involved . But

21:31

yeah , I suppose the short

21:33

answer to that is I don't know , radio

21:35

stations mostly .

21:37

Yeah , it's so nice that we can still

21:39

turn to something that's been around forever

21:42

and that really has been

21:44

a pinnacle for the

21:46

music industry all around . And

21:49

now , of course , we take it from one level FM

21:51

, AM and now online and

21:53

around the world in less than 30

21:56

seconds and actually

21:58

. So how I connected with

22:00

you was through Paul Dillon , P-Mad

22:02

, I believe .

22:03

Yeah .

22:05

You and I would never had connected had

22:07

I not been . You know I've interviewed

22:09

Paul and he does the best

22:12

of Irish Indie now for R2RB . We

22:14

play it after on Sunday . So

22:16

yeah , this worldwide web

22:18

has . I don't know if we ever thought I

22:21

know I never thought when it originally

22:23

came about this internet that we would be

22:25

at this point where the whole world

22:28

is opened up to everyone and

22:30

anybody that can get connected .

22:32

Yeah , incredible . I think there was

22:34

the first few months when I

22:37

put an EP out . That

22:40

was the first thing I offered

22:42

up to the internet world and

22:45

it was incredible . In the first few months of that

22:47

I had done more than I had done

22:49

all the years prior

22:52

when I was involved in music

22:54

. The internet wasn't really

22:56

a thing , but

22:58

just it's incredible what you can do .

23:00

Absolutely . And just even for myself

23:03

too , just with the R2RB and everything

23:05

, I wouldn't be doing this

23:07

if it wasn't for the internet .

23:09

Here you are in the woods in Ireland Right Having

23:11

a chat .

23:12

Yeah , it's incredible , exactly

23:14

so . What's the best way for people

23:16

to get in contact with you or find

23:18

your music ? What's the best platform

23:21

for you ?

23:22

My music is on Bandcamp , so it's Paul Callum

23:25

at Bandcamp . It's

23:27

very easy , but tune

23:29

into cool radio stations like

23:31

yours , deborah , you'll hear my music . And

23:34

on Facebook and Instagram

23:36

it's just Paul Callum . If

23:40

you're interested , try that .

23:42

Yeah , absolutely . And

23:44

so what are you working on ? What do you

23:46

got coming down the pipeline ?

23:48

Well , I almost finished recording

23:50

album three . I'm

23:53

hoping to have it

23:55

ready at some

23:58

point late spring and

24:00

I'm speaking to a very cool

24:02

friend of my wife who's an amazing graphic

24:05

designer and I'm

24:07

trying to see will she do the artwork

24:09

for it ? She's absolutely amazing

24:12

. So that would be cool and

24:14

not to think about that because I'm

24:16

not a graphic designer . So you

24:19

have to think like 10 times harder

24:21

, you know , but that's

24:23

what's happening at the minute and making , making

24:26

more music and recovering

24:28

in time for

24:30

February , I suppose . So

24:34

this year I got both my hands

24:36

done . There were a long time coming

24:39

, and so it's nice that

24:41

I'm this side of that .

24:43

Good , good , good . We need more music

24:45

from you . Thank you very much . You're welcome

24:47

, paul . Thank you so much for

24:49

being with me on the R2RB

24:52

podcast series . Is there anything

24:54

else you'd like to tell the listeners that I haven't

24:56

touched on ?

24:58

Well , nothing more than what Paul

25:01

Dylan said For you American

25:03

listeners . There's a lot

25:05

of fantastic music coming out of Ireland

25:07

, a lot of fantastic independent

25:09

music . There's worlds

25:12

within worlds everywhere , but

25:14

Ireland has an awful lot going

25:16

on . So have a nose

25:18

around and see if you can find something .

25:21

Absolutely . I second that , Paul

25:23

. Thank you so much .

25:26

Thank you very much , Deborah .