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traditions. Kroger. Fresh for everyone. Hi

0:42

Rabia. Hey Ellen, how you

0:44

doing? You're looking glowing. You're

0:46

looking gorgeous too. You know what I

0:48

did yesterday Ellen? Ayahuasca. I went to

0:50

a Korean spa. No, but I

0:53

want to. I went to a Korean spa with two friends

0:55

for their birthdays and the

0:57

sauna that's like 400 degrees, right? It's like 390.

1:04

I went back and forth between that and the ice room

1:06

over and over and over. I'm

1:08

like, this is why I'm glowing. I'm telling you. It

1:10

was so good. It was so good. Well two things.

1:12

Number one, I'm mad you went without

1:14

me because we were supposed to go to a Korean spa.

1:16

We are still doing it. But

1:19

have you done the plunge? The hot and

1:21

cold plunge? No, I didn't. I didn't do

1:23

any of the water stuff yesterday. I just

1:25

wasn't like... You're not into water sports? No,

1:27

it's not. I would do it.

1:30

But also the entire area where

1:32

all the water stuff is, you have to

1:34

be completely buck naked. I just can't bring...

1:36

I mean, I might do

1:38

that if there's like... I'm surrounded by strangers, but with

1:40

friends I'm like, I just... it's too... I don't know.

1:42

Oh, really? Yeah. I'll

1:45

wear a two-piece, but I'm not gonna be like... I

1:47

know it's all women, but it doesn't even the point.

1:49

I just... and one of my other friends was

1:51

like, whatever, she'll get buck naked in front of anybody.

1:53

But the third friend was like, no, I don't either.

1:55

So we just stuck to the sauna. We got massages,

1:57

though. I got a really, really good massage. Name

2:00

the I need a that have done the sides

2:02

so Robbie it doesn't get naked for friends except

2:04

for me cause I've seen all of your bets.

2:07

Not all of them. About ninety

2:09

five percent of the same. The

2:12

Great: Now that's gonna be March or the

2:15

I will When I just realized I that

2:17

you would not reciprocated. Out other

2:19

now know. What

2:21

levels of that's A? Three of us have

2:24

our the horrors That says a higher tier.

2:26

Yeah when we do our naked recordings the

2:28

once read that will invite everyone to that

2:30

they're gonna be naked but I'm still going

2:33

to have. I had heard. As is how I

2:35

work. For

2:38

those of you who are watching us on

2:40

the general feed and you want to be

2:42

a part of our jury box where we

2:45

do naked recordings Jake has we give you

2:47

vote is episode three hundred are Muslim sea

2:49

levels and we give you about the crime

2:51

every week. And if you want to be

2:54

a part of our star witnesses that is

2:56

our top tier you can be here shouting

2:58

and trolling us while we record. It is

3:01

the best and worst decision we've ever made.

3:03

Average I'm reading which I said. this is

3:05

why it's so distracting eyelid of and practice.

3:08

Brazilian on me Joss. Yeah.

3:12

Products. You. Can

3:14

find us there at www.patriotic.com/robbie and

3:16

Allen Can we get a graphic?

3:18

Just. So we'll

3:21

see. We'll see if that works out a

3:23

graphical up. I'm holding a graphic so that

3:25

were fun for this one's. Got

3:27

one were just the graphics are out and up.

3:30

Dot what we're here. Crime

3:34

a weekly show where we talk

3:36

about the true crime headlines that

3:38

are new and current or pop

3:40

up seats. actually. Robbie A, We're

3:42

gonna do a couple more things.

3:45

About. The and prime about

3:47

some cases. Massage. Have

3:49

update so add that to our schedule.

3:51

It's about them Prime inception. Yeah.

3:54

So I welcome to about him crime.

3:56

Robbie and I are going to bring

3:58

you some cases that. have intrigued

4:00

us or piqued our attention or that we

4:03

want you to have more focus on and

4:06

we just throw it out there. How many cases

4:08

do you have today? I actually, so I have

4:10

like three stories I'm going to

4:12

talk about and then in two of

4:14

the stories there's actually

4:17

two cases that are not related.

4:19

It was a one-word answer. It

4:21

was a one-word answer. How

4:24

many cases do you have, Rabia? Four. No, four.

4:27

But two are kind of related by the

4:29

same theme. That's what I'm trying to explain

4:31

but it's only you'd let me

4:33

finish my sentences. No, but it's very, you

4:35

know, it's the lawyer in you. Very hard

4:38

to work under these conditions. How many do you

4:40

have? 72. Okay. I

4:44

have two. That's what this show started

4:47

as. It started as us each bringing

4:49

two. I can also talk

4:51

about the truth. Show me the

4:53

contract. How have I had COVID

4:55

two times in like nine weeks?

4:58

I've had it once in the last four years so I'm doing

5:00

well. You're not better than me. Look

5:03

at your beanie. My immune system might be. I

5:07

just need to stop making out with

5:09

strangers. Yeah, stop licking people.

5:14

And doorknobs. Eww.

5:18

That's gross. The strangers are worse but okay.

5:20

I'll start then because I got more so

5:22

I mean you want me to go? Yeah,

5:24

Renee from Australia has never had COVID.

5:27

Because Renee is surrounded by wild animals

5:29

that could eat her but no people.

5:31

Yeah, exactly what I'm guessing. But

5:35

I have a bad attitude.

5:37

So it is

5:41

not curable. It turns out I

5:43

tested positive for being a

5:46

cunt. Do

5:49

you have any of those kits left? Because I've got to use them

5:51

on a few other people I know. Here,

5:54

can you just swab your nose with this

5:56

COVID? No, cunt. There we go. So,

6:00

swap it, swap it. All

6:03

right. All right. Okay,

6:07

so this first story, actually I didn't even

6:09

hear about this until this week, even though

6:11

it's been ongoing for what, now four years

6:13

at least. But I guess I heard about

6:15

it now because the authorities are kind of turning the screws

6:17

on these folks. So there, this

6:20

comes out of Oklahoma. And

6:22

in 2019, this woman and her two

6:24

parents were killed while they were in

6:26

their homes. Forty-three year old Tiffany Eicher

6:28

and her 65 year old father, Jack

6:30

Chandler, and his wife Evelyn Chandler, her

6:32

mother, were all shot and killed in their home on

6:34

September 7, 2019. Horrific crime, especially, I

6:36

mean, because Tiffany was like outside her,

6:38

she was like in the hallway outside

6:40

her bedroom. She tried to run. Her

6:43

mom tried to hide. I mean, like it

6:45

was, it was bad, right? And they were,

6:47

they were killed. There were two different weapons

6:50

involved apparently. Well, surprise, her ex was arrested,

6:52

but not just her ex. Her

6:54

ex's lawyer also was arrested

6:56

because his criminal defense attorney, who is

6:59

now his lover, apparently helped

7:01

mastermind, yeah, this

7:04

crime. This woman is crazy. This is

7:06

the thing, you know, when you say, oh, somebody's a

7:08

lawyer, I mean, they're just crazy. I mean,

7:10

like crazy doctors, crazy lawyers, like it kind of means nothing. I

7:12

mean, so anyhow, her name's

7:14

Keegan Harrows. She is, she was

7:16

a criminal defense attorney. She

7:19

started representing her, this

7:21

guy, Barry Ronald Titus in different charges

7:23

and drug and firearm charges in 2018.

7:26

So a year before she started representing him on these

7:28

different charges, then they got romantically

7:31

involved. And then she's like, we got

7:33

to take out your ex, even though

7:35

it was an ex, but the ex was going

7:37

to testify against him in this

7:39

other, in these other charges. So

7:41

she comes up with this scheme

7:44

to murder the ex and

7:46

her parents. And apparently this

7:48

woman, Keegan Harrows, this attorney, she's

7:50

got some issues. She in

7:52

2014 had been arrested on assault and battery

7:54

charge against her ex. Apparently

7:57

she had kicked him twice in the face and

7:59

he had like blood

8:01

on his face, swollen lumps,

8:03

abrasion, bridge of his nose, cheek. I

8:05

mean, you know, the officers who responded

8:08

reported like these injuries to him. And

8:10

like you kick somebody on their face when they're

8:12

on the ground or something. Like otherwise you've got

8:15

to do like a roundhouse kick in the air,

8:17

right? Like, I mean, like that's pretty brutal, kicking

8:19

somebody in the face. But she somehow continues

8:22

to keep her law license after that.

8:24

She also has difficulty keeping boundaries in

8:26

the workplace, not because of this relationship

8:28

with her client, but also because her former

8:30

law partner was also her lover, David

8:33

Bedford. And David was like,

8:35

I tried to tell the Bar Association. Nobody paid

8:37

attention to me that she crazy. And a few

8:39

months later, she killed

8:41

this, helped kill these people. Now

8:44

her and her lover have not turned against

8:46

each other yet, which is interesting to me because it's been a few

8:48

years. Usually under

8:50

the pressure of time, people will, but they might

8:53

now because the authorities are like,

8:55

we're going after the death penalty. Oklahoma

8:57

still has a death penalty and they want

9:00

to pursue the death penalty in this case.

9:02

So they're getting pretty serious and they have

9:04

both pleaded not guilty, but

9:07

it's not looking good because there

9:09

was surveillance outside the house and

9:12

the surveillance cameras caught this car pulling

9:14

up, which looks just like the guy's

9:16

car, two people getting out and

9:20

cutting the electricity to shut off the surveillance

9:22

system. Okay. So that's actually captured

9:24

on the surveillance. And they kicked down

9:26

a door in the house, shot

9:28

them with a couple of weapons, except the weapons

9:30

were traced to the attorney because

9:33

her brother called the authorities and said,

9:35

by the way, my, this rifle is my sister's

9:37

and I think she was involved

9:39

in these murders. They also found

9:41

the guy who sold her the gun, the

9:44

casings from the crime scene match the guns

9:46

and they found DNA on, uh, the

9:49

crime scene that matched the guy. So I don't

9:51

know who's advising them to plead not guilty, but

9:53

I'm thinking they are probably holding. I

9:55

mean, I'm hope I don't know. I mean, if, if I was a defense counsel,

9:57

I'd be like, let's hope for a plea deal. But

10:01

I don't think, if I was a prosecutor, I

10:03

would not be asking for a plea. I mean, they've

10:05

got them dead to rights here. The trials

10:07

begin next year. Let's see

10:09

what happens. So even though this case happened

10:11

in 2019, like I said, I

10:13

hadn't heard of it, but also just I think

10:15

fairly recently the authorities have announced that they're like,

10:18

no, we're going to death penalty here. Wow.

10:20

Yeah, that's my first one. I

10:23

mean, ineffective assistance of counsel at its worst,

10:25

right? I think. Yeah. And

10:28

then the Burns-Raffae case when his

10:31

lawyer and him were

10:33

knocking boots in the... I

10:36

was going to make a vulgar hand gesture, but then

10:38

I didn't know what to make. Yeah.

10:41

Wow. Yeah. I

10:43

feel like this is not that uncommon. I

10:45

feel like it's... And I think it happens with

10:47

therapists too, because lawyers do a lot. I mean, a

10:49

lot of times with my clients, I'd feel like a

10:51

therapist because you're... They always

10:53

come with you with horrific personal problems that are

10:56

translated into whatever legal issues, but there's

10:58

always personal stuff, so you end up

11:00

counseling them. So I just feel like it creates

11:02

this weird intimacy and you

11:05

just have to be so careful and boundaried. Yeah.

11:08

I mean, there is a slight bit of

11:10

a difference between emotional intimacy and then taking

11:14

your beef bus and parking it in her depot.

11:16

Okay. I want somebody in our

11:18

dairy box to collect into

11:20

a book all the

11:22

euphemisms that this woman knows for...

11:25

Joey, I know. All I know is knocking boots.

11:27

That's it. That's all I know. I

11:30

know nothing else, because I'm from the 80s and 90s.

11:32

Today on Shut the Fuck Up, Nick Lachey, I said

11:35

Daisy's favorite, which is mashing

11:37

your pissers. That's good. Ew.

11:41

Oh, God. Oh, God. I've never heard

11:43

that before. I just... My pure brain

11:45

and my... You don't have a pure brain,

11:47

Raviya. I have never heard that before.

11:50

My pure brain, she says.

11:53

My pure brain. Do not read you my people.

11:55

You're the sole of a three-year-old angel, okay? Do

11:58

not lead these nice people. astray

12:02

My my innocent brain

12:04

I've never heard of this

12:07

actual Talking

12:10

I am me ma. I am me ma Okay,

12:12

like I said the other day when we were

12:14

just last night we were recording our

12:16

our episode for I

12:18

guess January We never said

12:21

before pregnant in my home growing up. I I'm telling I've

12:24

Grown up in a bubble. I was you grow up

12:26

on the set of I love Lucy Because

12:29

they didn't my more liberal. Yeah, they

12:31

didn't know either Remember

12:33

Lucy and Ricky had the separate beds.

12:35

Yeah. Yeah that made total sense to

12:38

me It was like those two women

12:40

in that documentary those two old. What

12:42

was that documentary called? It was the

12:44

women that live their life

12:46

in love with each other and they played

12:48

the bass What was that documentary called? I

12:50

don't know somebody tell us that was precious

12:54

One of the things that makes me craziest I mean like

12:56

for those of us who are trying to take better care of

12:58

ourselves Take things are just good for

13:00

you But are helpful to you is learning

13:03

later like years later that oh your body

13:05

can't actually absorb such and such I mean I

13:07

have heard for years how so

13:09

many supplements and other things we take like

13:11

are it just passed right through your body But

13:14

that's why I was really excited to hear

13:16

that next Evo does not and will not

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do that Yeah, our bodies just doesn't absorb

13:21

CBD oil So you

13:23

could be absorbing as little as six

13:25

percent of what is on the label

13:28

I don't that is infuriating because you're

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paying good money for stuff next evil

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water soluble form of CBD

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can stay calmer or sleep better. The

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sleep is my favorite because we

13:50

all need to sleep We're all stressed. We all

13:52

have a million things running through our mind But

13:55

why would you take something and spend it if it's

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not actually gonna work and help you? Yeah, I mean

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it actually gets in your body. And only next

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evil has proven that their all natural dummies and

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capsules. Absorbs four times better than

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most oil. These products. And

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here's the thing. There are so many

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14:52

Listen Rob Yeah, we have so

14:54

many friends and listeners who have

14:57

small businesses and there is so

14:59

much that goes into rolling a

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15:04

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lot with your Shopify. Okay,

16:32

are you ready for my story today? Yeah.

16:34

All right, go with me. Okay. Sorry

16:36

Alabama. Oh God, Alabama. It's

16:39

December 2nd in Reform,

16:41

Alabama. A 24 year old

16:44

man by the name of

16:46

Micah Washington is changing his

16:48

tire. He is

16:50

black. Black man changing his tire. Oh,

16:53

that's dangerous. And officer

16:55

Dana Elmore approaches him

16:57

and asks for his

16:59

identification. And

17:02

Washington says, because

17:04

honey, we know our rights now

17:06

with the, with, with the internets

17:08

and the worldwide webs, he

17:10

says, am I being detained

17:13

for a crime? Okay. She

17:15

did not answer and said, give me your ID.

17:18

Now I looked this up under Alabama

17:20

law 15-5-30, a sheriff or an other

17:22

officer acting as a sheriff,

17:26

his deputy or any

17:29

constable acting within their

17:31

respective counties, blah, blah,

17:33

blah, may stop any

17:35

person in a public place

17:37

who they reasonably suspect is

17:39

committing, has committed or is

17:42

about to commit a felony

17:44

or public offense may demand

17:46

his name and explanation

17:49

of his actions, but

17:52

it does not give them the

17:54

right to require identification.

17:57

And on top of that, they have to.

18:00

identify what crime has been

18:02

committed. She did none of

18:04

those things. And there

18:06

was no reasonable suspicion that this man

18:08

had done anything wrong. I feel like

18:10

I know where this is gonna go,

18:12

okay. Therefore, had no right to ask

18:14

him. So, he took

18:16

out his phone and began

18:18

recording. That is when Officer

18:21

Dana Elmore used her stun

18:23

gun and

18:25

his phone falls to the ground. She

18:28

kept him on the ground, handcuffed

18:30

him while on the ground. Now,

18:33

another video starts and

18:36

it begins with Elmore ordering

18:39

him to stand up after

18:41

he was handcuffed. And

18:43

I would like to show you that video right now. He's

18:48

on the ground, he is handcuffed. Right there on the

18:50

floor of the car. Right

18:56

there on the floor of the car. That

19:04

ain't doin' good, right there, right there. I'm

19:06

not doin' it. Oh yeah, that's a firearm.

19:08

I'm just gonna owe you a phone. Oh

19:10

my God! Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. I'm

19:12

gonna do it on my phone. Oh my

19:14

God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh

19:16

my God. Oh

19:20

my God. You

19:25

want it again? No, no, no, it

19:27

was big and big. Oh

19:31

my God. That's not even the worst,

19:33

that's not even the worst. Hang on,

19:35

okay. So,

19:37

she tells him to lay down on the

19:39

vehicle. He does, he complies with everything. He

19:41

says, no ma'am, she

19:44

did not know that Micah's

19:46

brother was recording this, okay?

19:49

So, the recording was just

19:51

made available and they

19:53

show everything you just saw. She deployed

19:55

her stun gun to

19:57

when he pulled out his phone and then as you

19:59

saw, saw deployed it again right

20:02

into his back. Now

20:04

this is where it gets even fucking crazier.

20:07

The arrest affidavit signed

20:09

by Officer Dana Elmore

20:11

accuses Washington of the

20:13

following offenses obstructing

20:15

government operations resisting

20:18

arrest possession

20:20

of marijuana

20:23

trafficking fentanyl

20:27

and a felon in possession of

20:29

a firearm and his bail was

20:31

set at half a million dollars.

20:34

Here's the gag. He's

20:36

not a fucking felon. He

20:39

has no criminal history.

20:41

Okay, they tried to

20:43

frame him and this is what people

20:45

are not talking enough about. She

20:48

says because she did

20:50

not know that was being recorded that

20:53

she pulled fentanyl out

20:56

of his pocket after the gun. Did

20:59

you see anything come out of his pocket after the

21:01

gun? Because she tased

21:03

him after she got

21:05

the gun out and he

21:08

has never been a felon. He did have

21:10

a gun. He had a

21:12

firearm, a legal register. We're in

21:15

Alabama. Yeah, okay. So all

21:17

the charges have been dropped. They made

21:19

a statement that confirmed that he indeed

21:21

is not a felon, that

21:24

the gun he had was legal

21:27

and he was released from jail on

21:29

Tuesday. Now here's

21:32

my question before we

21:34

get into this conversation. This is a

21:36

legal question and I couldn't quite find

21:38

a definitive answer. If

21:41

someone is detained and

21:43

she knowingly tased him for

21:46

the sheer purpose of inducing

21:49

pain because why else was

21:52

she tasing him? He was in no threat

21:55

to her. Is

21:57

that considered torture? I don't,

21:59

it's not. I wouldn't say it's legally considered torture,

22:01

but I would say that this

22:03

grounds for definitely a civil lawsuit.

22:05

I mean, the sad thing is he

22:07

probably, there's no criminal charges that

22:10

would arise from this

22:12

because officers don't ever get charged with anything. Everything

22:14

is always like, you know... But you're

22:16

lying on the affidavit.

22:19

And the extreme part, I mean,

22:21

that is absolutely a fucking

22:23

bad cop. And I just had

22:25

someone slide into my DMs the

22:28

other day, and this is

22:30

what I say, I am fucking sick of it. Because

22:33

when cops are good cops, I say

22:35

they're good cops. But what do you

22:37

want me to say about that? That

22:39

woman is sick. She is racist. She

22:41

is angry. She is a bad cop.

22:44

And the... She's a shit human being. There's nothing a

22:46

good cop hates more than a fucking bad cop. Here's

22:48

the thing, that's not the first time Dana did that

22:50

shit. You know that, right? That's

22:53

the first time it was caught on camera. 100%.

22:56

100%. And that's why when people would

22:58

say, oh no, it would

23:00

take a conspiracy of an

23:02

entire department. No. One officer

23:05

over the course of their career, one

23:07

bad officer, can hurt thousands of

23:09

people. Just imagine if this video had not

23:11

been captured. A half million dollars

23:13

bail. Who can make that? I can't make that.

23:15

Can you make that? Even 10% of that. Who

23:17

can make 10% of that? That would be that

23:19

man losing his income, his house. People

23:22

cannot provide for their families

23:24

anymore. Just awaiting trial, which

23:26

could take years to get to. If there

23:28

wasn't that video, I mean, my God, she

23:30

did everything to ruin his life. She could

23:33

have killed him. Even a

23:35

stun gun can kill people. Over 400 people died

23:37

by Taser's stun gun in 2023 at the hands of cops.

23:45

I mean, so he's 20 million dollars. I

23:48

was going to say, threw them into the

23:50

ground. 20 million dollars. I

23:52

was like, fucking double it and

23:54

add a zero, baby. Yeah, because

23:56

I guess there are just add

23:58

to the list of. what black

24:00

people can't do, changing a fucking

24:03

tire. Yeah. Changing a tire. I

24:05

mean, yeah, sue them into the ground, but also

24:07

get out of the county. I mean, honestly, like

24:09

I don't, I do not, I mean,

24:12

when I think about like the Stephen Avery case, which

24:14

I know people have different opinions about, but even with

24:16

a non-wanted non-gad out, I'm like, Adnan, you can't stay

24:18

in Baltimore City. You can't stay in that jurisdiction, because

24:20

these departments, like they're, it is generational,

24:22

they will carry that shit and they will

24:24

find a reason to come

24:26

after you and hurt you. But I hope he gets

24:29

out of there and lays low, because

24:31

I would not trust for a second him getting

24:34

pulled. I'm like, anything could happen to this

24:36

poor guy. You could dissect so many parts,

24:38

show me so many parts of this, show

24:40

me one time where he looked

24:42

like for a second that

24:44

he was resisting arrest. Yeah.

24:47

It is so- When did this happen? Did

24:49

it happen recently? December 2nd. Oh,

24:52

okay. December 2nd, he was- Okay, I wasn't sure, because I'm

24:54

like, thank God he didn't spend too much time in jail.

24:57

She is on administrative paid leave, of

24:59

course. Of course. Of course

25:01

she is. She'll go away with her pension.

25:03

She can't be sued personally, because she was

25:05

the whatever working in her, as

25:09

an official of the state. She is disgusting. I

25:11

hope that you are on the Patreon, Dana

25:14

Elmore, and I hope you pull your subscription,

25:16

because you're so mad at us. You're gross.

25:18

You're disgusting. Dana would not, she

25:20

would not be a patron of us. You,

25:23

but it's these people. Why

25:25

are you guys so mad at cops? Because of Dana

25:27

Elmore. Because of people like

25:30

Dana Elmore, with internalized racism that

25:32

saw a black man changing attire,

25:34

and thought he was up to

25:36

something. And here's the thing, you

25:38

have the absolute right to say,

25:41

am I being detained for a crime? That is a

25:43

question she has to answer. I couldn't see the video

25:45

real clearly, but she looks older, so I feel

25:47

like she's got an entire career in law enforcement. This

25:50

is not like somebody who's new on the job, which

25:53

means that I can guarantee that

25:55

she has colleagues who know exactly how she is,

25:57

and how she operates, and the fact she's racist.

26:00

And it's not just about Dana, it's about all the

26:02

people that protect the Dana's, you know, and who will

26:04

not hold her accountable. So I'm really curious to see

26:06

how the county and how they're going to handle this

26:08

going forward. They would be smart to be like,

26:11

she's getting fired and you're getting your settlement. I hope

26:13

he gets every penny of that $20

26:16

million and then they give $20 million

26:18

to the brother for recording it. And

26:21

it is absolutely confirmed that she had

26:23

no idea that that man was

26:25

recording. Yeah. Renee, why

26:27

are you going from Australia to Alabama for

26:30

your holidays? This makes no sense to me.

26:32

Anyway, I know everybody wants to go to

26:34

Alabama to kick a stink, I think. Oh,

26:37

I see. Oh, I see. Poor Josh is there. Josh

26:39

is just there in Alabama trying

26:41

to hold down the fort fighting the good

26:44

fight. Sorry, Josh. Poor Josh. Oh

26:47

God, what an awful story. But thank God

26:49

for that brother. And I can't imagine the

26:51

fear he must have felt because he had

26:53

to be, he had to

26:55

keep his cool and make sure she didn't

26:57

know he's recording and also be like, please don't kill

26:59

my brother. Please don't kill my brother. Because she was

27:01

looking for a reason to kill that man. She really was.

27:04

She really was. Fuck her. What

27:07

a piece of shit. Where

27:09

do you sweat, Ellen? I'm not

27:11

a sweater, but the mirror

27:14

and sheer fear of the

27:16

sweat makes this next product

27:18

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27:20

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27:22

you go to the gym. I

27:25

do. I work out in case you don't know. Yeah.

27:28

And, and, but, you know, like sometimes you don't actually

27:30

have to, you don't have to be that person that

27:32

just like pours sweat. We all get a little funky

27:34

over time. You can be traveling. The sun settles in

27:36

after like a few hours after your shower, whatever. But

27:40

yeah, that's why we love Lumi. Lumi's got you covered. Lumi

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27:45

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mean like they're all kinds of places

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clinically proven to block odors for over

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say, when I travel, I travel with

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vols. Okay Rob. yeah I know

29:56

I give you a hard time about going to

29:58

the gym, but I have. say, you

30:01

actually are very inspiring with your commitment

30:03

and how hard you work. I know

30:06

I joke about it a lot. It

30:08

made me cry, Ellen. It

30:10

is true. It is very inspiring. And just

30:12

the other day, you were telling me how

30:14

much you love CoPilot and how it helps

30:16

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30:18

now tell our listeners. Well, here's the thing.

30:20

I spent years trying to get myself motivated,

30:23

trying to understand what was right for my

30:25

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30:27

when people ask me how I did it,

30:29

I was not able to do it without

30:31

the help of a professional, a

30:33

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30:35

about CoPilot is that it is

30:37

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30:39

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30:41

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30:43

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30:45

for five years, I have been

30:47

using fitness coaches. I can't do

30:49

it without them. I actually think

30:51

it's really great because everybody is

30:53

different. Everybody is unique. Everyone, some

30:55

people want cardio, no cardio, lightweights.

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31:16

think that's amazing. Yeah. I mean, like the value

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31:34

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32:21

So I have two stories

32:23

that are only connected

32:25

because these are crimes that

32:27

took place because of like

32:30

apps and you know, social media

32:32

that we use. One is a terrible,

32:34

terrible story that actually comes out of Baltimore. This just

32:37

happened November 26th. So not too long ago, a couple

32:39

of weeks ago, it was an 18 year old who

32:42

lived in Pennsylvania and

32:44

he found on Facebook

32:46

marketplace. I'm just going to talk to him myself.

32:48

Wow. Do you see

32:51

how she treats me? Where

33:28

are my people? I feel like I've got no backup here. I've got

33:30

no... Robbie is out on an island all

33:32

by herself. I know. Rebecca. Rebecca, you were

33:34

my editor for seven years. You never once told me that I smacked my lips.

33:37

That's because you're scary. No, that's because I can edit it out. Why wouldn't I

33:39

tell you? Rebecca, I have never been scary to you. Have I? No,

33:41

no, no, no, no. You're not.

33:43

That's because... When have I been scary to you?

33:45

I'm not scared of you. I'm not scared of you. I'm

33:47

not scared of you. I'm not scared of you. I'm not

33:49

scared of you. I'm not scared of you. I'm not scared

33:51

of you. No, no,

33:54

no, no, no, no. You're not. That's because...

33:56

When have I been scary to

33:58

you? That's because... I

34:01

don't criticize the way women talk, you know that.

34:04

But Rebecca does to me constantly.

34:07

But Rebecca does she smack her lips? Yeah,

34:10

she does. I

34:12

get her miss. But, Rabia, you're so

34:14

pretty. You know what?

34:17

You're so... Also, by the way,

34:19

she's way smarter than you and I put

34:21

together. Oh, I'm fully aware. There are only

34:23

a couple things I can cling onto, and

34:25

this is it. Is this

34:27

become a point of contention between the two of you? I

34:30

can't breathe. I cannot talk. She's

34:33

always like, stop saying that. I'm

34:35

an editing crazy person, and I'm

34:38

like, Rabia! Huh. Yeah.

34:41

I see. Am I being recorded right now?

34:43

Yeah, you are. You're on our episode right

34:45

now. Rebecca Lavoie, welcome to our

34:47

show. Okay,

34:50

okay. I'm going to actually start talking like

34:53

this to keep my lips very far apart.

34:55

Can I keep my... You sound like your

34:57

mom. I know. You have never heard

34:59

my mom. All

35:02

right, we love you, Rebecca. Listen. She

35:04

has so many... She just didn't believe me. I

35:07

do not. Rebecca never told me... I

35:09

actually blame Rebecca and all the amazing editors I have because

35:12

if one of you had told me this years ago, maybe

35:14

I would have corrected myself. I'm going

35:16

to get a speech coach. I'm getting a speech coach. She's

35:19

going to get a speech coach. Can I just say

35:21

one other thing? Oh, no. There

35:24

were way bigger problems with editing undisclosed

35:27

than Robbie's. This is accurate. Susan

35:30

Simpson talking 700 miles per hour. I

35:33

was way more focused on that. Susan

35:36

had too much in her brain. How

35:38

long does it take you to edit? How

35:41

far do you get? How many minutes per hour

35:43

do you normally go? Oh,

35:46

I'm really fast. It depends on what it

35:48

is and how much audio. Another

35:50

AI tool is so much easier, especially

35:52

with making stuff sound higher quality. You

35:56

have to teach me how to do that. No,

35:58

you don't. No, you don't because we... We have editors. You

36:01

don't have to teach Ellen that. Ellen, stop it. Well,

36:03

just in terms of making the taste quality of self

36:05

sound better, like in terms of like, you know, if

36:07

somebody's recording in a bad space or whatever, you can

36:09

make that sound better without a lot of work now.

36:11

It used to take time just to do that part,

36:14

but it really depends. It

36:16

really, really depends. We can sit together

36:18

and say some tips. I'm

36:20

at like 12 minutes per hour. What

36:22

does 12 minutes per hour mean? I don't know what this rate

36:25

means. I've never edited anything. I've never edited anything. 12 minutes

36:27

of the show per hour-ish. 12 or like 14. So

36:29

are you saying it takes you an hour to edit 12

36:31

minutes of the show? What

36:34

the hell? Yeah. All right. We

36:36

love you, Rebecca. Thank you for proving me

36:38

right. All right. Bye. I'm not sure if

36:40

I love you anymore. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

36:43

I love you. You're beautiful.

36:46

You're talented and you smack your lips. I

36:48

don't know. I feel like I'm almost 50. I don't think

36:50

it's going to change. I'm just, I'm sorry, Ellen. I'm just, I'm not

36:52

even working on it. I'm not going to work on it. You're screwed.

36:55

We went from, we went from hiring a

36:57

speech coach to I'm 50. It

37:00

is what it is. Yeah. I mean, it's

37:02

like a couple of years ago, I was like, you know what? I don't like

37:04

to hike. I'm never going to like to hike. I give it up. I'm

37:07

not going to be one of those people. Like, you know, I just, it's

37:09

like, you know, it's cooking. Yeah. We

37:11

all have our gifts. You're immune to them. I haven't found my gifts

37:13

yet, but I'm sure they're there. Okay. All

37:16

right. Okay. So I

37:18

was talking about, um, I was talking about this terrible crime

37:21

that took place in Baltimore in, on November 26. This

37:24

18 year old named Carlos Ricardo just

37:26

was looking for a car, found one

37:28

on Facebook marketplace, drove up from Pennsylvania,

37:31

from Lancaster, Pennsylvania to Baltimore in order

37:33

to take a look at this car,

37:35

decided he didn't want it. And

37:37

then it's unclear exactly what happened. The,

37:40

the, the kid selling it was

37:42

also 18 named Marquise Harris. And as he's driving

37:44

away, he decided, I don't want the car. He's

37:46

with a friend. Marquise Harris pulls out a gun

37:49

and shoots him in the head repeatedly,

37:52

apparently. And so, and then

37:54

the friend takes the wheel of the car and it crashes, whatever they, they've arrested

37:56

him again, 18 years old. He's a

37:59

kid. So that was one

38:01

story that caught my attention

38:03

because I do worry

38:05

a lot about things like Craigslist and Facebook Marketplace

38:07

where it's like, you know, you have stuff you

38:09

want, but it's like, how do you inner how

38:11

do you keep yourself safe in situations like that?

38:13

You think I'm always worried about people come to

38:15

the house, you know what I mean? Like, you

38:17

know, to pick up a bed or whatever stuff

38:20

I have. But this guy, they were just out

38:22

outside. He just went outside to look

38:24

at a car. Yeah, Facebook Marketplace. Like,

38:27

we learned don't give your address, don't give

38:29

your phone number out to people. And then

38:31

we're like, come to my house to give

38:34

me five dollars for my basket of yarn.

38:37

What? What are we doing? Yeah, we're not

38:39

thinking this through clearly. At

38:42

a rental center. What is the safest? Yeah, but

38:44

yeah, but how do you do that if you

38:46

actually have like furniture? I can't be like hauling.

38:48

For example, I just got rid of I just

38:51

got rid of like a literally a L-shaped, you

38:53

know, one of those big I used to have

38:55

it in my law firm like years ago, this

38:58

huge wooden L-shaped desk, you know, those really shiny

39:00

dark wood. They're huge. And it

39:02

has like a hutch on top. I

39:04

can't be like hauling it to a, you

39:07

know, somebody has to come and take it. So I had to just

39:09

trust these three men who came to my

39:11

house and took it apart and took it. I'm like, fingers

39:13

crossed. Nobody gets killed. Yeah, I'm

39:16

glad you're still here. It's a dilemma. Well, the

39:18

other story also is about a

39:21

parable, you know, thing

39:23

that happened because of because of a

39:26

connection online. And that is that this actually

39:28

might make you giggle, but it shouldn't. A

39:30

Miami woman who basically is charged. I just

39:32

smacked my lips. A Miami woman who was

39:34

just charged with a felony attempted murder charge

39:36

because she set her Tinder date on fire.

39:39

Destiny Johnson, 25, was arrested in

39:41

late November, charged with three felonies,

39:43

included attempted murder, first degree arson

39:46

and aggravated battery. She met

39:48

up with this date and I don't have the name

39:50

of the date. It's met up with him. Like, I

39:52

don't know. They were met up at a Holiday Inn

39:54

Express in Florida. Of course, it's Florida. Got

39:57

irritated by him and sent him and

39:59

his car. on fire. Was he in the

40:01

car? He was in the car. Was he leaving? Oh,

40:04

I don't know the exact details of what was

40:06

happening, but he was in the car. But she

40:08

how I don't, I don't understand. I don't, but

40:10

she, she pleads

40:12

not guilty and she's told and don't

40:14

contact the victim. But again, this is

40:17

just a story that makes me think

40:19

about the inherent danger in like, I

40:22

know dating has always been a dangerous proposition,

40:24

like generally speaking, but at least dating did

40:26

not look like this 25, 30

40:28

years ago. Now with Tinder, and it's not even dating a lot

40:30

of times, just like randomly meeting somebody for one

40:32

night. I know young people who have told me when

40:35

I travel with friends, if I go to a city, I'll try

40:37

to like find somebody to hook up with like for that night.

40:40

And I'm like, I'm terrified for them. I'm

40:43

terrified for them. I do not understand

40:45

how people have the courage to do

40:47

this or just taking a risk like

40:49

this. My question is, if he was

40:51

in the car, how did she light

40:53

the car on fire without

40:56

dousing it with something? I mean, a

40:58

car doesn't just like set ablaze. How

41:01

do you light a person on fire? I mean, if they're

41:03

just sitting next to you, I mean, because you can just get

41:05

up and walk. I don't know like

41:08

the details I, because like that's pretty much

41:10

all I could I could find online is this

41:12

kind of like the headlines and you know, the

41:14

the big picture story, but it could be that

41:16

the car was not set completely ablaze that it

41:18

was just like, you know, it had just begun.

41:20

Yeah, fire. And the guy was able to walk

41:22

away. That's scary. Yeah. So anyhow,

41:24

these two stories just make me scared of

41:27

the times we are living in and make

41:29

me realize I am truly a Mima. I

41:31

just I'm turning into a hermit soon. I'm

41:33

fine with that. Yeah. My next story,

41:35

I just smacked my lips. My next story. This

41:37

happened less than a month ago, but there are

41:40

updates. So let me set the picture.

41:43

At 1023pm, a new

41:46

mother, she already had a son, but

41:49

39 year old Irena Garcia was on her

41:51

bed rocking her newborn to sleep and I

41:53

mean newborn like 14 days old. And the

41:56

new Media

42:00

has released a picture of that

42:02

moment and at 10.31 p.m. a 13 year old

42:04

by the name of

42:08

Derek Rosa would call 911.

42:11

And Derek Rosa would tell

42:13

operators that he stabbed

42:16

his mother to death while

42:18

she was sleeping. So officers

42:20

rushed to the scene in Hylia, Florida

42:23

and they discovered the body of 39

42:26

year old Irena Garcia with multiple

42:28

stab wounds to her neck. The

42:30

media has also released a picture

42:32

of Rosa posing

42:35

in what appears to

42:37

be blood on his hands that

42:40

he sent to a friend. Now I

42:42

say friend, this is someone that he

42:44

doesn't know his name. It's

42:46

someone that he games with online and

42:49

sent a picture and

42:51

he told this to the 911 dispatcher.

42:54

This 911 call lasted 17 minutes

42:58

and I'll play a section of it

43:00

for you. But he said I took

43:02

a picture. Is that bad? He

43:04

stayed on the phone until authorities were

43:07

able to come and apprehend him. So

43:10

there's a couple of things. The

43:13

prosecutors are against moving him to

43:15

juvenile detention. He is 13 years

43:18

old and he is currently being

43:20

held with adults and

43:22

treated as an adult and as of

43:24

now being tried as an adult. And

43:27

the prosecutors are very, very against

43:30

moving him to juvenile detention. Now

43:32

there's another aspect to this case.

43:34

My comprehension of Spanish is okay

43:36

but I definitely wanted to make

43:39

sure I have the right information

43:41

for Viviana Veliz. I hope I

43:43

pronounced that right. These are my

43:46

Spanish speaking down bitches who helped

43:48

me properly translate some of this

43:50

information. So this

43:52

is where I want to go with this. Derek

43:55

Rose's stepdad was named

43:58

Frank Ramos. And

44:00

what I have been able to translate for

44:04

the help of these women is that

44:08

Frank Ramos had

44:10

an entire separate family

44:12

and wife in Cuba.

44:16

And during the 911

44:18

call, allegedly, you

44:21

can also hear a voice in the

44:24

back saying, throw it out, and

44:26

also asking, who are you

44:28

talking to? It is

44:31

also said that he has been

44:33

reunited with that other wife and

44:36

his daughters that he has fathers

44:39

and that he's happy. And

44:41

that woman is now taking

44:43

on the responsibility of

44:45

mothering that baby. Okay,

44:48

so when Florida authorities asked to

44:51

investigate the home and properly process

44:53

the home, he's like, no, no,

44:55

no, no, we're good. No,

44:58

thank you. We have all the

45:00

information we need, he did it. So

45:02

you're saying the father did not allow

45:04

processing or didn't cooperate with processing? The

45:06

apartment has not been processed. But

45:09

let me show you a couple things. Oh, by

45:11

the way, it should be said, I

45:13

found this case because Jasmine, you know

45:15

our bestie, TikToker Jasmine from the Murdoch

45:17

case, she covered it, so we were

45:19

texting this morning about it. Because

45:22

here is the

45:24

video of the mom in bed and

45:27

then that is the picture of Derek

45:29

Rosa allegedly

45:32

killing her. But what

45:34

I said to Jasmine was, that

45:36

doesn't look like a 13 year old. Yeah,

45:39

but it could be a really big, I mean

45:41

like my six year old don't look like a

45:43

six year old. I mean, but this kid, I'll

45:45

show you a picture of this kid, this kid

45:47

looks older in the face, but I also want

45:49

to point out, this is him coming out. Anyway,

45:51

he is wearing

45:53

a navy blue

45:56

long sleeve shirt. shirt,

46:01

and in this picture, he's wearing

46:03

a short sleeve shirt. Is it? Maybe.

46:07

Is it really? It looks like a sweatshirt from

46:09

here. Oh, you're right. It's a short sleeve shirt.

46:12

Maybe he changed. I'm just

46:14

saying, all of

46:16

this information about Frank Ramos

46:20

is not being publicized

46:22

on English media. It

46:24

is only being talked about on

46:26

Spanish speaking media. The fact that

46:28

he had a whole separate family

46:31

and the fact that he has a

46:33

separate wife and he says, I just

46:36

want to move on and be

46:38

happy. Real quick. Yeah, that was real quick. Um,

46:41

you know, I want to show you what the

46:43

little boy looks like real quickly. Yeah. For

46:45

your mind. Do we know what the father looks like too? Yeah.

46:48

I mean, even the haircut could identify who it is and

46:50

if they have different haircuts. This is the boy. See

46:53

that navy blue? Yeah. He

46:55

does look older than 13. His face

46:57

looks older than 13, but that kid looks

46:59

like he's a hundred pounds soaking wet. I

47:02

mean, I got to see him standing up. It's hard, but it's

47:04

hard, but I'm just wondering like, what does the dad look like?

47:07

I mean, I'll be honest, like the, the, the, I,

47:10

I, I don't know, but I do think it's

47:12

suspect. But the other thing is this. There's

47:14

no, it could be that

47:16

the, he did actually kill his mother, but

47:19

that the father kind of made it happen.

47:21

Right. There's also

47:23

that right. He instrumentalized him

47:25

against her. When you hear

47:27

the 911 call, he sounds

47:30

like a little kid who

47:32

does not know what has

47:34

happened. He kept saying, are they going

47:36

to come in and kill me? I took pictures

47:38

and I told my friends about it. Was that

47:40

bag? You talk

47:42

all about it. My

47:45

friends. Your friends. So you send

47:47

pictures to your friends. So what you did? Yeah. Oh

47:50

God. He almost doesn't sound quite like he's

47:53

got some kind of developmental or maybe he's in

47:55

shock. I

47:57

mean, I don't know. over

48:00

here where I live. What did you add? I

48:03

need to know if your mom is breathing. She

48:06

said miss. Okay,

48:08

what did you do then? I spread all over

48:10

the floor. Okay, why did you kill your mom?

48:15

The brother, I have the gun with me. I

48:17

was gonna shoot myself but I didn't want to.

48:19

I didn't want to. I need

48:22

to know you don't have any guns or any

48:24

knives with you. This

48:27

is the knife and my room under the gun

48:29

in the living room. Okay, I need you to

48:31

stay away from them. Can you put them in

48:33

a safe place away from where the officers can

48:35

see them? I need to know,

48:37

do you think we can help your mom? Miss,

48:40

she said miss. Yes. I

48:44

took pictures and I told my friends about

48:46

it with that bag. You

48:49

told about it. It's very

48:51

confusing and then he says. Where was the

48:53

father when this was happening? If

48:56

he's speaking in the background while he's calling 911,

48:58

I'm assuming he was in the apartment when

49:00

this actually happened. I

49:03

don't know that nobody is talking

49:05

about the stepdad and I agree.

49:07

I'm not saying that he didn't

49:09

do it, but he has what

49:12

would be a 13 year old's motive because

49:14

when she says why did you kill him,

49:16

he doesn't answer. Yeah, I mean look here's

49:18

the thing. One thing I will say about

49:20

US media is that

49:23

coverage of crimes and criminal justice is usually

49:25

real shit. I mean it's real shit. It's

49:27

whatever like the the the prosecutor's office or

49:30

the police will they put out a press

49:32

statement. They literally just copy and paste copy

49:34

and paste and that's why you'll see you

49:36

can go to six different outlets. It's the

49:38

exact same story, exact same language. Like there's

49:40

just not no further digging. That's just how

49:43

it is. And I don't know why because

49:45

it's not like in most

49:47

instances publications have like people who are aren't

49:49

on specific beats. So it's like you've got

49:51

a crime beat. Do better. Like that's your

49:53

only job. You've got one job. Do better.

49:56

But I've seen this a lot of

49:58

times. It's interesting to me that The

50:00

Spanish outlets, are they Spanish

50:03

outlets that are being published overseas,

50:05

or are there American-based Spanish outlets,

50:07

do you know? They were all

50:09

on TikTok. I found them all

50:11

on TikTok, and they were from

50:13

Spanish outlets, not

50:15

American-based ones. So it's a totally separate

50:17

conversation that's happening there and here. That's

50:20

why I wanted to make sure that

50:22

I got all the words correct. So

50:24

thank you to our Dalvish listeners for

50:26

helping me with that. Because

50:29

the whole conversation of Frank Ramos is

50:31

not even happening. He has a whole

50:33

other ass family. Yeah, yeah. I mean,

50:35

look, I'll say this. I mean, I

50:37

guess, you know, I don't know if

50:39

they're gonna, I would hope the prosecutors

50:42

and the police investigate a little further to

50:44

figure out what actually happened here. But as

50:47

Kate has just pointed out in our group chat,

50:51

he's 13. He should 100% be

50:53

held in a juvenile facility. If anything, it

50:55

sounds like, if he really did commit this

50:57

of his own volition, then maybe

50:59

he needs psychiatric help versus even going

51:02

to a juvenile detention facility.

51:04

I mean, this is the problem. For

51:06

a 13 year, I mean, think about

51:08

it. Does anybody have children? Do you remember

51:10

when you were 13? He's a baby. To

51:12

put him with adult offenders, that is awful.

51:16

I mean, if he is not, I'm

51:19

sure he's already traumatized, but you are basically just

51:21

ruining him for life. You know what I mean?

51:23

There's no. There are videos

51:25

of him in the courtroom. Kids getting

51:27

counseling? That's not happening in a, that's

51:29

not happening. Oh, why would he get

51:32

counseling? There's videos

51:34

of him in the courtroom and

51:37

this kid has, look

51:39

at him. Look at him in the courtroom.

51:48

Look at his eyes. Oh

51:50

God. Oh, this baby. Oh no,

51:52

he's not well. He's

51:56

so confused and out of it and he doesn't. Just

52:01

out of it. Yeah. Have you ever

52:03

seen anyone? He's looking his eyes are

52:06

darting all over the place He

52:08

does not know he is 13 years old

52:10

granted. He does look a bit older

52:14

It doesn't matter you know, but people online

52:16

are like he looks 17. He

52:18

looks at you. Well, he's not he cares Yeah,

52:20

I mean I look 25. I mean like that

52:22

it is what it is. I mean it is

52:25

what it is She can't help it. She's gorgeous

52:27

easy breezy. Maybe it's Maybelline. Maybe it's drugs Definitely,

52:29

but it doesn't matter. Oh gosh.

52:31

This is a terrible The

52:33

whole thing is tragic from beginning to end I

52:35

mean, I don't care how it went down, you

52:37

know But for and where's the

52:40

father in this is the father like there is

52:42

he in the courtroom with him? Is he like

52:44

supported? Yeah his actual biological

52:46

father his their whole family

52:49

made impact statements to plead with the

52:51

judge to let him be brought to

52:54

a juvenile detention facility His dad was

52:56

like he's a sweet boy. He's a

52:58

good boy. He's a nice boy he's

53:01

all of these things and

53:03

his biological dad and Frank

53:06

Ramos is He's he's

53:08

off Living his his new life

53:10

with his Cuban wife I'm sure I mean like I

53:12

don't know if this is gonna happen or not But

53:14

I would not be surprised if they if the prosecutors

53:16

because you know, they're always looking for something. Oh, it's

53:18

a Satanic call. It's always like they're

53:20

looking for some kind of you talk my motive gaming

53:22

probably they're me like, oh he Gaming

53:25

made him violent, you know, like if that hasn't been

53:27

injected into the narrative. I expect that to be coming

53:29

up soon. Sure. Yeah For

53:33

that but he is there and

53:35

he is in a cell all

53:37

by himself with a frosted window

53:39

Has Jasmine talked about this other

53:41

aspect the this no we were

53:43

texting about it this morning Okay,

53:45

I watched her tick-tock last night

53:47

and we were going back and forth. She

53:50

was like, what's the dad's name? We're

53:53

just going back and forth good job digging Ellen

53:55

That was that was good to know and I'm

53:57

sure that Jasmine and others like they'll help spread

53:59

that Yeah, it's just crazy

54:01

because you can't I put in Frank

54:04

Ramos and only Spanish-speaking Tech

54:06

talks came up and Spanish-speaking outlets. So we'll

54:08

see we'll see how that blows up in

54:11

the coming days The last story

54:13

I had is it's not that it's like a real

54:15

unusual story. We hear this kind of stuff all the

54:17

time I just kind of wanted to have a conversation

54:19

with you about like what do you think like is

54:21

this or is this not a crime? Just because something

54:23

is a crime legally on the books doesn't always like

54:25

you know what I mean like doesn't yeah I mean

54:27

like it doesn't always mean that it's actually we should

54:30

You say this or Avia because last night I made

54:32

a tick-tock about a

54:35

man saying that self-checkout

54:37

scanners are People

54:41

steal from them at a crazy rate

54:43

really and and I made a tick-tock

54:45

that said Did you see

54:47

anyone stealing food cuz no you didn't

54:49

okay? Well, who was saying that who was saying

54:51

it this man was reporting,

54:54

but I was saying like yes stealing

54:56

is a crime Yeah, and I don't

54:58

believe we should live in We

55:02

should condone criminal behavior, but

55:04

if you see someone stealing

55:06

food or diapers or tampons

55:08

Yeah, I didn't see anything. Yeah, it's

55:10

funny that you bring that up about a crime not being

55:12

a crime All right. Well, I mean like I I want

55:14

to discuss whether or not you think this is a crime

55:17

high school teacher Gabrielle and you feel

55:19

26 was discovered in this in

55:21

North Carolina was discovered with an

55:23

18 year old male student in

55:26

a car I Don't know

55:28

fill in the euphemism blank. All right, and you've

55:30

got lots to choose from And

55:33

so she was arrested in charge with felony

55:35

sexual activity. Look a felony is a serious

55:37

charge Felonies a serious

55:39

charge with a student and in North

55:42

Carolina It is illegal for teachers and

55:44

students to have sexual relations Unless

55:47

the teacher is lawfully married to the student.

55:49

I get that I get the public policy

55:51

reasons for a law like that I get

55:53

the reason even the

55:56

sociological and psychosocial reasons

55:58

for it because of the power dynamic and all

56:00

that stuff. I don't know why I feel

56:02

uncomfortable with this woman being charged with a

56:04

felony for being in a

56:06

relationship with an 18 year old because in

56:09

this country, if you're 18, if

56:11

you're 13, you'll get charged as an adult. Like

56:13

we just decide when somebody's an adult and not

56:15

an adult. And in any other circumstances, 18 year

56:17

old would be fine dating

56:20

whoever he wants. Right, take your morality

56:22

out of it and your judgment out of

56:24

it of whatever you think of a teacher

56:26

and a student or a woman that's 20

56:29

years older. You said she was 36. No,

56:31

26. She's 20, okay. Eight

56:34

years older. He's an adult. Right. So

56:36

what happened was he missed a practice. He's on life

56:38

360. He missed one of his

56:40

practices like with some sports ball practice and his

56:43

mom was like, why'd he miss that? So she

56:45

started tracking him and tracked him to

56:47

his teacher's car, I guess, and found him

56:49

and then reported it. And yeah, I mean, I'm just curious.

56:51

What is it? How are our jury box

56:53

responding to that? Like I get it. Yeah, when did

56:55

it start? That's a good question, Rachel. When did it

56:58

start? But let me ask you, let's say it started.

57:00

Okay, this is the fall, right? Let's say it started.

57:02

Now, if it started when he was 15, 16, I

57:06

think it's a different scenario. Agree. But

57:09

this is another good question, Megan. Would you feel

57:11

the same if the student was a female and

57:13

the teacher was a male? Right, like that to

57:16

me also would change. Like I feel like my

57:18

emotional response would be like, yeah, that's different, but

57:20

it shouldn't be different. Because if she's also- I'll

57:24

tell you a really quick story. My dressing room

57:26

mate at Kinky Boots is

57:28

married to her high school music teacher. They

57:31

met when she was 17. They

57:33

waited till she was 18 to date and

57:36

be with each other. They're married, they live in Long Island

57:38

and they have two kids. Right,

57:40

was any of that a crime? I mean, like that's a

57:42

thing, right? I mean, no. He was, it was same thing.

57:44

He was like 26, 27. She

57:47

was 17. They legit were

57:49

like, no, we think this is something. They

57:52

legit waited till she was 18 years

57:54

old. And I was like, girl, she's like, no,

57:56

we did. It wasn't worth it. And...

58:00

She was 18 and he was her

58:02

music teacher and they lived happily ever

58:04

after. Yeah, I mean like Melissa was

58:06

talking about. So Renee says, I'm gonna

58:08

say student teacher equals crime. What

58:10

if the student is a 22 year

58:12

old in a class, you know, and it's a professor.

58:14

It wasn't worth it. And she

58:17

was 18 and he was her music

58:19

teacher and they lived happily ever after.

58:21

Yeah, I mean like Melissa was talking

58:24

about. So Renee says, I'm gonna say

58:26

student teacher equals crime. What

58:29

if the student is a 22 year old in

58:31

a class, you know, and it's a professor. I

58:33

mean, like I just feel like it's

58:36

so arbitrary, like how we decide who,

58:39

I can understand if you have a, if you

58:41

have, it's like, you know, in a

58:43

workplace, you're like, there are some workplace regulations in

58:45

certain companies, right? Like they just, it's not okay.

58:47

So you're gonna end up getting fired or suspended or whatever

58:50

if you have a relationship, a sexual

58:52

relationship between a senior and a junior.

58:54

And I feel like I can understand that.

58:56

The teacher was suspended, maybe she's let go,

58:58

maybe there's an administrative leave, you

59:01

know, but to be

59:03

charged with a felony for this

59:06

seems really crazy to me. And

59:08

then Melissa brings up the power

59:10

dynamic. Yeah, but how many

59:12

situations, and I mean, there's always a power

59:15

imbalance that's happened all the time. It's one

59:17

thing if there's like sexual harassment and like

59:19

coercion and you know what I mean? You

59:22

have a boss who's putting pressure on a

59:25

young employee to get

59:27

sexually involved. What is this consent? Can

59:30

an 18 year old not consent? I don't know. I

59:32

don't feel right about this. I just don't. Here's

59:34

my question. Do we know if he

59:37

was actually her legitimate student or

59:39

was she just a teacher at

59:41

the school? I don't know. Like

59:43

did she teach his AP history

59:45

class? But what if she did?

59:47

No, I'm just, I'm asking to

59:49

clarify for Melissa's question because if

59:51

she taught freshman economics and

59:53

he was a senior and then

59:55

there is no power dynamic, really,

59:58

she doesn't have any power or.

1:00:00

authority to change his life either way, whereas

1:00:02

someone could say, yeah, she was his AP

1:00:04

history teacher. She could have failed him or

1:00:06

given him an A. Right. I'm

1:00:08

just playing that card that Melissa brought. I mean,

1:00:10

the thing is like, you know, sometimes like, not

1:00:13

sometimes a lot of times these laws are, you

1:00:15

know, okay, it's so cut and

1:00:17

dry. If they're a teacher or student, if

1:00:19

he was at 16, in most

1:00:21

states, a student can decide, I'm

1:00:24

withdrawing myself from school. Okay. We

1:00:27

give a student that power

1:00:29

to do that. They can say, I don't want to go to high school

1:00:31

anymore. I don't want to go to school anymore. So they can

1:00:33

do that. If we're giving a 16 or 17

1:00:35

year old student that power, we're also saying at

1:00:37

18, you, I

1:00:40

mean, there's all these responsibilities that come with

1:00:43

being 18, right? Like you could be,

1:00:45

you could be drafted into the arm. I mean, it's

1:00:48

a technicality that that kid was a student.

1:00:51

This is what I'm trying to say. If she

1:00:53

met him at a sporting event and

1:00:55

they, he was not as, you know, he was not a

1:00:57

student in her height. What if he's a student at a

1:00:59

different school? I mean, like, I just, I don't, I feel

1:01:01

like it's very arbitrary. I don't know. I'm just like 18.

1:01:04

No, don't worry for me. I mean, you

1:01:06

know, look, she's been charged, but it could be

1:01:08

that maybe she doesn't actually get convicted of it.

1:01:10

I wonder how this is going to go. Right

1:01:12

now, for now that this judge is like, she's

1:01:14

not actually detained. She's, she's got

1:01:16

electronic monitoring and ordered not to have

1:01:19

any communication. So let's see

1:01:21

if, okay. So, and apparently

1:01:23

a court, the court documents say that

1:01:25

since October 18th, they

1:01:28

had been, they had gotten together at least

1:01:30

five times since October 18th. I'm assuming the kid

1:01:32

was already 18 as

1:01:34

of that time because it's only been like

1:01:36

two months ago. Nicholas says, am I

1:01:38

comfortable with it? No. Do I think it should

1:01:40

be a felony crime when he's 18 and 26?

1:01:44

Also no. Yeah. And that's,

1:01:46

that's, you have to withhold your opinion

1:01:48

for what an 18 year old looks

1:01:51

like with a 26 year old. That's

1:01:53

your own, you know, judgment

1:01:56

or whatever. But I mean, and

1:01:58

felonies seem that. Extreme felony. Yeah

1:02:01

felony seems extreme. Um, but also just like

1:02:03

our our attorney at the top of the

1:02:05

show I mean like, you know people get

1:02:07

some better boundaries in your workplace. Yeah. Yeah

1:02:10

That's it. That's all I got. All

1:02:13

right. Well, that is all we have

1:02:15

for this week of about damn crime

1:02:17

We hope that you will join us

1:02:20

on the patreon where we do it every week because

1:02:22

it's kind of like one of my favorite things And

1:02:25

what else Rabia? How can they connect with us

1:02:27

and follow us? You can do it Okay. Well,

1:02:29

gosh. Okay. Let's see if I can do this.

1:02:31

We have a Facebook group That's a private group

1:02:33

So you should come and answer the question so

1:02:35

I can let you in because I'm very very

1:02:38

very careful about letting people in if they don't answer the

1:02:40

questions we have a YouTube channel

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that you should subscribe to and you can

1:02:45

rate review us only if you're gonna give

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us five stars though I'm not Apple or

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wherever you want to rate us and

1:02:51

you can follow us on all the socials at Robbie

1:02:54

and Ellen Ellen spells her name with a Y

1:02:56

and I think that's about it. What am

1:02:58

I forgetting? And if you want

1:03:00

to leave us a speak pipe message, right? We take

1:03:02

your messages there only a minute and a half, but

1:03:04

you can call back We'll play it again And

1:03:07

you can leave us questions or things you

1:03:09

want us to cover or follow-up or hotcakes

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that you have about any of our FSA.

1:03:13

Yeah, sure criticisms at www.speak

1:03:16

pipe calm Solve

1:03:18

the case not Rabia and

1:03:20

Ellen and until then we

1:03:22

will see you Let's see.

1:03:25

When will we see I think after the hall is it? No,

1:03:27

no, no for the patreon will be back on But I don't

1:03:29

think we're doing we're we're two weeks

1:03:31

dark for the holidays. Okay, there you go So

1:03:33

then I think we'll see you next with

1:03:37

Lisa Yamada, right? I believe so.

1:03:39

All right, don't listen to us. You know what

1:03:42

Google it Lisa Yamada in January Or

1:03:45

on the patreon come on the patreon. Yep. Thank

1:03:47

you to everyone in the jury box and thank

1:03:49

you Rabia and we'll see you soon Love you

1:03:51

guys. Love you. Bye They're

1:03:56

just kisses there's a lip smatch of kisses you

1:04:01

My brother-in-law died suddenly and now my

1:04:03

sister and her kids have to sell

1:04:05

their home. That's why I told my

1:04:07

husband we could not put off getting

1:04:09

life insurance any longer. An

1:04:11

agent offered us a 10-year, 500-thousand-dollar bill.